Marvel Avengers Alliance - Game over

[Josh_B]

Hey guys.

[Josh_B]

Hmm. RVS. Take sides, Lynch people for seeming defensive. Take notes on the Lynch order and wait on the mod confirmation.
I think I missed step 1.
Step 2. Looks like a good place to start.

Restriction:
Prevent the DP from being closed early to allow everyone a chance to check in and decide.

[Josh_B]

Umbrage giving pregame definitive analysis does not compute. -Begin program: previous game analysis /umbrage

[Josh_B]

Sheeping is convenient. -for scum. How about I promise to vote exactly opposite on every one that you vote for except for the times that I come to the conclusion on my own that I should vote on the same person that you are voting for. And even then, it will be voting in opposition.

[Josh_B]

Josh just jumped on me for one of the silliest reasons I have ever seen in my life.

Pressure bro. Don't take it personally, unless you're plox.

[Josh_B]

My phone at my last post.

vote umbrage

I hope we can all agree this is the superior wagon.

Really? what makes this wagon any better than other wagons, /and what makes you so quick to get on it?

[Josh_B]

Sheeping is convenient. -for scum. How about I promise to vote exactly opposite on every one that you vote for except for the times that I come to the conclusion on my own that I should vote on the same person that you are voting for. And even then, it will be voting in opposition.

Wouldn't it be easier just to vote him for sheeping?

No, that would be too easy. We all have to sheep sometimes. Too much sheeping and singularity sheeping on the other hand..should be questioned.

How did the Umbrage analysis go?

Umbrage tends to give early town reads that cause him trouble later in the games. It looks like he seriously cares about mislynching and is reducing the number of wagonable suspects.

[Josh_B]

Sheeping is convenient. -for scum. How about I promise to vote exactly opposite on every one that you vote for except for the times that I come to the conclusion on my own that I should vote on the same person that you are voting for. And even then, it will be voting in opposition.

Town sheep all the time, bro. Yeah he could be scum sheeping but he could be being genuine here 'cause this is a super mature stance to take.

I dont like this series of posts:

That's an antitown decision

Not really, I think pushing a wagon on the over reacting dude will give us more info no?

So where is your vote on the over reacting dude?

Ops forgot

Vote Yates

Forgetting to vote? Ehhh... Someone who was serious about this scumread would not be "forgetting" to vote, it sounds to me like he is making this up.

Vote: ZZZX

Could be, I know I have him on my watch list but I've seen town do this before but then again I've seen some of the strangest "town" play these past few years.

[Josh_B]

Sheeping is convenient. -for scum. How about I promise to vote exactly opposite on every one that you vote for except for the times that I come to the conclusion on my own that I should vote on the same person that you are voting for. And even then, it will be voting in opposition.

Town sheep all the time, bro. Yeah he could be scum sheeping but he could be being genuine here 'cause this is a super mature stance to take.

Baah! Why did he pick you? Are you a farmer that I've never heard of before?

[Josh_B]

I dunno i have no reads yet nero seems town for now.

Displaced looks scummy with his last post since that seems like a little "throw some dirt and see if it sticks"

vote: Displaced

LOL. displaced must have read the "how do you scum hunt?" Forum.

[Josh_B]

Baah! Why did he pick you? Are you a farmer that I've never heard of before?

I DO have an organic farm on my balcony!

The reason he picked me I suppose is that in the gme we played together I had scum reads on like 2 or 3 of the scum. Of course he COULD be buddying me but I kinda think he's being honest 'cause in that same game he pretty much sheeped TSO.

I have neither the time nor the energy to meta everyone for every game they've ever played. Knowing that you two have a history of games (or at least one game) eases my mind to his trusting you here. putting both of you on my current town reads list seems promising for now.

[Josh_B]

My reason is that the one game i played with you, you and I were town, and you also called me scum RIGHT OF THE FUCKING GATE WHEN I HAD CALLED 3 SCUMS ON MY FIRST 3 SCUM READS. That was on disney villian mafia. So yeah, granted one game might not be enough to make a judgement out of you, but from my experience you fucking suck at reading me and you are the biggest tunnel vissioner ive probably encountered. And the fact that you got on your "scum read" on an RVS Drunk post of me which was fucking super cool is indeed fucking stupid.

^town

Can you feel the walls closing in yet scum?

I don't think this enough to give him a town read. Especially since it is a direct ad hom attack against a person calling him scum.

[Josh_B]

I dunno i have no reads yet nero seems town for now.

Displaced looks scummy with his last post since that seems like a little "throw some dirt and see if it sticks"

vote: Displaced

LOL. displaced must have read the "how do you scum hunt?" Forum.

I feel like Im missing a joke here but the pidgey quote above was applied to a clearly neutral statement I made. He's basically doing exactly what he is accusing me of doing here.

Yeah, we know, overly accusing someone of being scum with little or no reasoning and then being flip floppy about it is pretty scummy. If the first person you FoS doesn't stick, blame it on RVS and trench in around another player. The post cause pidgey to seem very scummy to me.

[Josh_B]

My reason is that the one game i played with you, you and I were town, and you also called me scum RIGHT OF THE FUCKING GATE WHEN I HAD CALLED 3 SCUMS ON MY FIRST 3 SCUM READS. That was on disney villian mafia. So yeah, granted one game might not be enough to make a judgement out of you, but from my experience you fucking suck at reading me and you are the biggest tunnel vissioner ive probably encountered. And the fact that you got on your "scum read" on an RVS Drunk post of me which was fucking super cool is indeed fucking stupid.

^town

Can you feel the walls closing in yet scum?

I don't think this enough to give him a town read. Especially since it is a direct ad hom attack against a person calling him scum.

In what universe is that ad hom? The Land of Paper-Thin Skin?

Every universe. Particularly Marvel Universe. "you f'ing suck at reading me," "you are the biggest tunnel visioner...," "you're scum read... is f'ing stupid." If you can't see that as ad hom, I can't see you as being town.

[Josh_B]

Reading marker.

[Josh_B]

I think you are being massively anal here

Perhaps. Let's take a different approach. Do you feel like Pidgey was scum hunting in those first 8 posts? I don't think he was, my interpretation of Pidgey's post is that he didn't think he was, but what do YOU think? Also, do you feel like I was NOT scum hunting in my first 6 posts? I think I was, but of course I have the benefit of knowing why I go in the direction I go so maybe my scum hunting isn't obvious to everyone else? What do YOU think?

How this post feels.

OOH- ooh. Pick me. pick me. I'm a really good scum hunter too. Mommy didn't you see me hunting scum, or were you too busy looking at pidgey? God I hate Pidgey. He ruins all of the fun and always takes your attention away from me. Don't you love me mommy?

My response to the way it feels

Yes yates you're scum hunting too, now take you crayons and go color.

My actual response.
-Yates, why are you so hung up on this. You're alignment has nothing to do with scum hunting. Everybody wants to appear as though they are scum hunting. I'm pretty sure Squirrel's read on you has nothing to do with whether or not you are or aren't scum hunting and the scum hunting statement has more to do with giving pidgey a soft town read for his first 4 hours of play. Are you part of the Marvel Universe?

[Josh_B]

My phone at my last post.

vote umbrage

I hope we can all agree this is the superior wagon.

Ok, So changing the subject, I'm still a little hung up on this guy. Are there some people here who have played with him before?
It really looks like he's flying under the radar here compared to his more active play in other games.

[Josh_B]

Ok, So changing the subject, I'm still a little hung up on this guy. Are there some people here who have played with him before?
It really looks like he's flying under the radar here compared to his more active play in other games.

I have.
Currently I don't think he's looked much either way. I don't think he's flown under the radar though, I just think the people above the radar are being loud and, to some degree, spammy, so to be above the radar you have to be squealing pretty loud around here. So I don't think that's a fair aspect of the case.

Is his activity different from his town games though? I haven't noticed but that ould be a valid tell if you had evidence to support the claim.

Clicking on his "search user's posts" indicates that he's generally an active player.

[Josh_B]

@Josh:

Why aren't you voting?

Nothing to actually vote on yet. I've seen a few possibles, but nothing quite substantial enough to use my only super power on.
Why do ewe care?

[Josh_B]

What is SG accusing you of that others are doing?

SG accused me of not scumhunting.

How about now? Are you scum hunting now?

VOTE: yates

[Josh_B]

@Josh: This game is pretty big and I didn't get very engaged in the argument between SG and Yates. I'm thinking one of them is scum, but until I have a solid enough read I prefer to not say anything.

As for what is happening now. Pidgey is town. Towniest town ever. He plays like he doesn't have a care in the world. This is not scum play.

OK. Why is umbrage the superior wagon?

[Josh_B]

OK. Why is umbrage the superior wagon?

Please explain.
I have no clue why you are asking me this.

Ok. It was probably back on page 3, but it was before the sg/yates/pidgy wars. Umbrage voted himself, you called for a wagon and jumped on.

[Josh_B]

What is SG accusing you of that others are doing?

SG accused me of not scumhunting.

How about now? Are you scum hunting now?

VOTE: yates

Don't like this vote. You haven't seemed suspicious of Yates at all, and now this vote, without a reason? Explain.

Well, Mozamis just moved to the top of my Scum pile. If you didn't like the vote, check my posts in isolation. My previous post was telling Yates to quit acting like pigey's whiney older brother trying to get attention from mom(aka SqG). I thought about releasing the vote when Yates told me he was watching continuum because I like continuum, but he was watching continuum and still arguing with SqG instead of scum hunting like he said he had been, so I left it there. People who aren't trying to take posts out of context already know how the vote got there. Now you know why it was left there and now you know why I'm changing it.

VOTE: Mozamis

[Josh_B]

Girls, Girls (Yates and SG), you're both beautiful... Now, can we come together and pluck out some scummies? Like KidA?

~Fenix

Why are you so hung up on KidA, He freely claimed wolverine at the beginning. Now unless you have some reason to believe that wolverine isn't in this game, or that wolverine is a fake claim that just hasn't been CC'd yet, I'm not seeing any issue against him that would indicate that he's scum.

Believe me, I don't like lurkers and inactives any more than the next guy, but that doesn't mean they're automatically scum.

[Josh_B]

Girls, Girls (Yates and SG), you're both beautiful... Now, can we come together and pluck out some scummies? Like KidA?

~Fenix

Why are you so hung up on KidA, He freely claimed wolverine at the beginning. Now unless you have some reason to believe that wolverine isn't in this game, or that wolverine is a fake claim that just hasn't been CC'd yet, I'm not seeing any issue against him that would indicate that he's scum.

Believe me, I don't like lurkers and inactives any more than the next guy, but that doesn't mean they're automatically scum.

Who cares? If I freely claimed, I don't know, Thor at the beginning, would that make me automatically town? Fakeclaims exist.

(Disclaimer: my rolename is not Thor)

Thanks Bulbafenix for responding to this. I'm not saying that a claim automatically makes a person town. I'm asking if there's a reason to not believe that KidA's claim is true. If you claimed such a prominent character at the beginning with no prompting, and you weren't CC'd on it, I'd think you were probably town too.

[Josh_B]

no moz is town take your vot off him

How do you know?
You say that lawdy dawdy everybody is town. Misreping my vote, is a sure sign of scumness and I'm going to hold to that.

[Josh_B]

ew or not, but

any mod worth his salt gives fake rolenames to the mafia

around here if they're necessary.

Really why? Which mods give that sort of advantage to scum? If they are going to give an advantage to scum like that, why even give character names in the first place. Why would a mod go through all the trouble to create a game, such as this one, with a theme, that was made clear was Marvel Avengers Alliance vs. People outside the Marvel Universe and then give fake claims to the non marvel characters?
and more importantly, What would make predetermined fake claims necessary for this game?

What makes KidA scummy? and why shouldn't we believe his claim?

[Josh_B]

ass flavor claim wouldn't pass the review process.

That would have to mean there aren't enough characters in the theme to support a generous pool of fake claims. Do you think that applies to this theme? A mass flavor claim in this game even with the number of people playing would still allow a viable pool of likely town character claims from scum. without fake claims predetermined, the opportunity for CCing allows the game to maintain a certain balance that causes most themed games to be a little more enjoyable.

[Josh_B]

@ Pidgy, Fenix, and Chandra

OK. Even with the possibility of Fake Claims.
Is there any reason to believe that KidA's Wolverine claim isn't true, or that he is scum?
Because so far, all I see from his play is weak wagon hopping from an inexperienced player who has self admitted that he isn't yet able to come to his own conclusions, but has proven that he is willing to jump on whatever seems popular at the time.

[Josh_B]

At some point in the game, I'll probably prefer to lynch KidA because his inexperience is a liability. If he's willing to bounce from wagon to wagon now, what's he going to be like when the town pool is getting smaller and smaller and the scum are becoming more and more manipulative in their play style?

Maybe we should lynch him now anyways, and see who's interested in keeping him around -but I think that would be better played in a future DP.

[Josh_B]

My previous post was telling Yates to quit acting like pigey's whiney older brother trying to get attention from mom(aka SqG).

That's my bad, I had completely forgotten you made that post. However, i just ISO'd you, and it was 3 or 4 of your posts ago, and 8 pages ago. Plus you had been talking about someone else (Umbrage maybe?) so your Yates vote looked like a bolt from the blue. But yeah, fair enough, you had voiced suspcion of Yates.

This going to be a long game.
I'm taking notes.
You're reason seems legit, but pay attention more.
I'm going to keep my vote where it is for now until I find something else scummy, because it isn't threatening anything.

[Josh_B]

Kid A is not actually that inexperienced, is the thing.

I'll take that into consideration and deem his continued feigned ignorance as blatant trolling.

[Josh_B]

VOTE: Squirrel Girl

no moz is town take your vot off him

How do you know?
You say that lawdy dawdy everybody is town. Misreping my vote, is a sure sign of scumness and I'm going to hold to that.

moz disagrees with you, he's scum

I disagree with you, I'm scum

when did omgus become the new meta?

WHAT? This isn't about agreement or disagreement.
I'm just not going to judge someone's alignment based on your input. I will place my vote on any body who I feel is necessary. Moz wasn't exactly on my list of likely towns to begin with. When I OMGUS you as scum, you'll know

buddy

[Josh_B]

Why are you so hung up on KidA, He freely claimed wolverine at the beginning.

If you claimed such a prominent character at the beginning with no prompting, and you weren't CC'd on it, I'd think you were probably town too.

Are you assuming scum didn't receive fake claims for some reason? My experience with Jason's games is that he does give them out:
WWE
Heroes of Comedy - it doesn't say in the end game but I had a fake claim of Ross Gellar
DC Universe
Inbetweeners Mafia

That, I think, should suffice to illustrate that Jason typically gives fake claims. Some of his games that were eaten by Tigers I also know had fake claims but I can't find them to link, obviously.

I didn't know that before I jumped in this game. No offense to Jason, but I'd rather play bastard games, than play themed games where the theme has no value. I think that giving mafia fake claims takes away from the value of the game being themed. I'm not going to quit this one mind you, but it's something I'll watch out for in the future.

[Josh_B]

You'll want to stay away from all theme games on this site then.

Why theme a game then, if counter claims are impossible? Why go through all the work of assigning characters to the roles if they don't mean anything?

[Josh_B]

bring this up now so people don't get faked out by mistakenly believing any random name claim. Me claiming Captain America in this game, for example, is pretty much the same as me claiming Yates in a regular game. It carries exactly the same weight in terms of alignment - none - or at least it shou

OK. The roles would be more closely aligned with the actual character rather than the fake claims. I can see that. I can see from the games you posted that Maybe the predetermined fake claims are more of a liability than an advantage.

[Josh_B]

Are we name claiming?

No?

THEN WHY ARE WE SPECULATING ABOUT NAME CLAIMS?

STFU AND GET BACK TO SCUMHUNTING PLZ

Sorry bro. I'm not new to Mafia, but I am new to this site. Knowing what to expect is important.

-Thanks guys for clearing it up. I'm still trying to adjust to MS.net's plethora of VT's and Goons vs. Debate.org's overabundance of power roles.

[Josh_B]

Is there any reason to believe that KidA's Wolverine claim isn't true, or that he is scum?
Because so far, all I see from his play is weak wagon hopping from an inexperienced player who has self admitted that he isn't yet able to come to his own conclusions, but has proven that he is willing to jump on whatever seems popular at the time.

He could be Wolverine.

The point is more to his reaction. He thinks he got the worse character ever in the history of the Marvel Universe.

Many players do not like to play scum, so scum has a higher incidence of complaining about their roles.

If you liken it to Kid_A, he could have been complaining about being a scum role, realized his mistake, and used his fakeclaim.

Or used his real rolename, but still be mafia.

Basically, his character does not clear him either way.

Trolling definitely comes to mind. Bandwagoning on early votes, F's with the people calling for such early definitive wagons such as Chandra call for one on BulbaFenix, feigns ignorance. Is relying too much on his early claim for proof of town alignment. I'll say i'm going to put him in my mixed feelings pile.

[Josh_B]

SO I will read a few people right now just before the weekend because I cant do all atm

Josh_B:

Let me quote this

Spoiler:

@ Pidgy, Fenix, and Chandra

OK. Even with the possibility of Fake Claims.
Is there any reason to believe that KidA's Wolverine claim isn't true, or that he is scum?
Because so far, all I see from his play is weak wagon hopping from an inexperienced player who has self admitted that he isn't yet able to come to his own conclusions, but has proven that he is willing to jump on whatever seems popular at the time.

At some point in the game, I'll probably prefer to lynch KidA because his inexperience is a liability. If he's willing to bounce from wagon to wagon now, what's he going to be like when the town pool is getting smaller and smaller and the scum are becoming more and more manipulative in their play style?

Maybe we should lynch him now anyways, and see who's interested in keeping him around -but I think that would be better played in a future DP.

He contracted him self in 2 posts. Also tried to defend KidA way to many times.

Scummy

That's a nice read on my willingness to play for my wincon by lynching inexperienced noobs who are more likely to bandwagon during critical points than to actually pay attention to the game. Except I wasn't under the impression that KidA has experience until...

Kid A is not actually that inexperienced, is the thing.

Two posts after I made those statements. If you read further, I didn't even know the extent of Fake Claims on this site.

zzzx is a wagon I see attaching myself to.

[Josh_B]

@theadmiral. Can you clarify? You quoted my post twice and the besides you thinking that the post is shit, I don't follow. Are the comments to the second quote related to my post or to another post?

I think we resolved my whole reliance on character claims as proof of alliance.

[Josh_B]

I'm bugged that people are choosing to dismiss how I caught Yates by just calling the conversation "silly" without actually providing any validity to the claim that it's silly.

I CAUGHT SCUM! Why does everyone always ignore me?

Silly is an opinion. Yates calling the conversation silly doesn't mean it is silly, nor does it mean he's scum.

Silly is an opinion - it should still be able to be supported if it has validity. Yates is not calling it silly, other people are. I didn't say the people calling it silly were scum or town for calling it silly, I complained that they were unhelpful to me and the gamestate.

Well, don't get into flame wars. Or be the one that backs off. Players that tunnel always look the scummiest, especially when there's more going on in the game than just the flame war.

[Josh_B]

What? I didn't flame anyone and neither did I back off from anyone. Am I really that crazy here? Did I actually go and call Yates scum for calling me silly and then backed off at some point? I feel like everyone is reading a different game than I am!

The post meant to read "if you get into flame wars you should be the one that backs off, but you shouldn't get into them in the first place."
You got into a flame war with Yates and made the important stuff in the DP nearly unreadable, and at the bear minimum really, really hard to look up.

You shouldn't get into flame wars, or continue the flame war with Yates. (I don't care if he did call it silly). There is more in the DP than his opinion of your opinion about whether or not he was or wasn't scum hunting.

[Josh_B]

josh b's read progression is forced

VOTE: josh_b

explain and substantiate or GTFO

[Josh_B]

JoshB and/or PV, you were speculating about Kid A claiming wolverine. With him saying this, would this make him a bad lynch because of the uncertainty of his role or would it make him a good lynch because he claimed as he did?

Thanks

I hope PV responds to this too. probably Chandra{Is it your Birthday?},Fenix, and some of the others that were in on the conversation earlier can talk about this too. My original theory that such an early claim that wasn't counter claimed was a sign of it being town. The extent of counterclaims however indicates that unless his role lines up with his claim, it could be a predetermined fake claim.
My position is that his play style lines up with an inexperienced pioneer(someone that likes to wagon). However, it's not the case that he is inexperienced, so his play style this game has been purposely anti- town trolling. I have a theory about why an semi-experienced player claiming wolverine would do that, but I think it should be proven on a future DP.

[Josh_B]

You got into a flame war with Yates and made the important stuff in the DP nearly unreadable, and at the bear minimum really, really hard to look up.

You shouldn't get into flame wars, or continue the flame war with Yates. (I don't care if he did call it silly). There is more in the DP than his opinion of your opinion about whether or not he was or wasn't scum hunting.

I don't think I made anything unreadable, and if I did you can just skip it. It's like you are skipping it, because he never called it silly and I never said he did, and I just made a post clarifying this fact that you decided to take time out of your day to suggest was poor play on my part while clearly not reading it - I guess because I make things unreadbale.

I also don't think I have failed to comment about other issues, but if you think there's an issue that needs my attention feel free to name it.

OK. How do you feel about KidA, chandra and rufflig

[Josh_B]

Well, DP1 has been fun so far. I'm ready to move on if everyone else is. But now it's time Follow the Scarlet Witch as chaos tends to do, with a little erratic game theory and touch of wagon mongering. I'll try to add as many links as I can, but FTW this game is bungled by flame wars. I hope I can make this post as clear as possible.

Spoiler: considerate wall reduction

Pidgy486and/or Yates(499) alerted me to the probability of two scum factions in this game that has put behavior of several players into question.
At the beginning of the game(p1) 3 people came on strong as role fishing after Aronis claimed to have an awesome character.
Squirrel Girl
Ruflig
ZZZX
It isn't absurd to want to know who got what character, but the issue against these three is that both SG and Ruf were both like, "IS IT A DOCTOR?!?!"
And it was ZZZX's second attempt for role fishing, the first being against SG.

Then there's the follow up. Ruf praising SG for her knowledge(17) and SG giving a random, yet pointed role description of an antagonist character(18).

I wish she would have called dibs. We'd be sure she was scum.

Forward to SG rolefishing KidA(not that far (21)) and Ruf voting Aronis and explaining his case against Aronis's "minor role fishing"(152)

as opposed to his own full on role fishing mentioned before

Anyways, I don't want to requote the whole damn DP, I'm getting to a point. I noticed this post by Yates

Spoiler: Yate post

VOTE: Aronis

He's a gross lurker, but calling post 15 a "rolefish" is a bit of a stretch. To me it reads as a snarky reaction to:

You are Professor Doctor Awesome?

and

Maybe he's Dr. Decibel.

So two people jokingly referred to him as a "Doctor."

Referring to the primary role fishing infractions, but oops forgot to include his partner on that train.

Hello Scum

It makes me feel like the Yate's/SG war was Faction on Faction considering the misreps that were coming from both sides.

they've already been pointed out so read the DP if you want to see them for yourself.

So, That being said, For the scummiest continued game play besides these incidents. I'm voting ZZZX,

since I only get to pick one

.
VOTE: ZZZX
I know we still have some time left in the DP, but with 24 pages worth of play, I feel like I have a reasonable amount of info to place a solid vote.

[Josh_B]

to clarify, however, I thought

your

post was terrible because you were attempting to drum up support for a kida lynch using his inexperience, tendency to jump from wagon to wagon, and fear that he could negatively impact the game later (when there are less people) as reasons. None of these relate to him actually being scum, just a hinderence. In fact you imply he is town with the line "what's he going to be like when the town pool is getting smaller and smaller and the scum are becoming more and more manipulative in their play style?", i.e. if you think he is liable to be manipulated by the scum clearly you don't think he is one.

Yep, that's what I meant. And that's what I thought you would say. Keeping a pioneer around is only helpful for scum, so I'm putting your clarification in my scum pile. For further clarification of my stance, Pioneers play against the Town wincon, and I consider them to be as lynch worthy as any mafia. If any body wants to keep talking about this, link it to an Out of Game thread and we can go over some opinions on it. (I don't think it would be illegal, considering it would be a general theory discussion about playing to your wincon, and justifiable policy lynches not specific to this game).

[Josh_B]

Why the fuck did someone shoot aronis now.
There were so many better targets.

I can think of a few reasons. The most obvious one being that he was ultra confirmed town. I'm not sure why it wasn't used on me, but I know that TheAdmiral was online at the time. I should have instantly checked for everyone online, but I didn't think of it until now, and now it's too late. One thing's for sure, I'm not the first one that suggested the possibility of Aronis being the Scarlet Witch(even though it was wrong).

I'm not going to search for the exact post, but Yates earlier comment about playing more metroid. Yielded this picture for me Photoshop Mashup
and further inspection of the Scarlet Witch yielded this video

I can also see it being used to start a flash wagon. I didn't know how right I was on the reads, but I don't think any of these five people should make it to endgame unless proven otherwise by definitive in game confirmation: Ruflig, Squirrel Girl, Yates, ZZZX, TheAdmiral.

[Josh_B]

So I posted after him and influenced his post before me

This logic is flawless...

Thank you for restating my point. Josh claimed I was your scum buddy because I didn't include your "rolefish" in my summary of why Aronis's post wasn't a rolefish. I'm saying that your post obviously

did not

influence the post before it. Is that really unclear?

For further evidence, I will also call into question the post of role fishing that displaced was referring to, and your reasoning for referring to the post that you referred to. Because, I don't see the justification from displaced on the Aronis vote until much, much later.

Back from v/la

vote Aronis

Perhaps we should wait on displaced to identify the post he was referring to.

[Josh_B]

I think my vote was reset. I'm putting it back where it was just to make sure.

VOTE: ZZZX

[Josh_B]

@ZZZX, and everyone.

hey Squirrel did you draw Squirrel

#thread

-First role fishing

Where did I imply that I was a Doctor?

Are you a pumpkin that shoots lazors out of its ass?

I am pretty sure thats aweasom. Marvel prob bought it

Although, This isn't as direct as Ruflig and SqG, I still deem it role fishing,

i got the worst marvel character does anyone want to trade

I probably won't, but who did you get?

-Here's the "minor role fishing attempt" that Ruflig and displaced referred to.
My read suggests that Yates was purposely mischaracterizing the Aronis role fishing attempt. By calling post 15 the attempt, but then by not adding the continued role fishing that went along with it.

[Josh_B]

g my point. Josh claimed I was your scum buddy because I didn't include your "rolefish" in my summary of why Aronis's post wasn't a rolefish. I'm sayin

I'm saying the Aronis fish was 20. It was clearly 20. Not 15. I'm saying that you said the fish was 15 on purpose. Was 20 a response to any one's post except KidA's? I say no, it wasn't. Are you understanding the confusion?

[Josh_B]

So asking squirrel a question that is clearly a joke in a game where scum prob gets fake claims is role fishing?

What about 4 people trying to guess name for art role? Looks like its only at me?

P-edit:ninja'D

I named 4 other people that walked away looking bad. I am inclined to say, I suspected you the mediumest, but continued plays lead me to believe you to be scum the mostest. The reason for my vote on you is mostly for yates misrep of the Aronis fish in which he failed to mention you also being involved.

[Josh_B]

Bulba, you are the best, thank you for that.

@BC: I'll get to you later.

I have Ruffling as town now.

I don't know how this is possible.

Post 652.

Basically I am defending him and attacking his attacker. His response is, in a conversation he's not even part of, to come in and disagree with me and defend his attacker. I don't understand how that would come from scum, do you?

Chainsaw Defense. Busted!

[Josh_B]

I'm saying the Aronis fish was 20.

Fair enough - though I think that's also a mischaracterization. 20 - like 15 - didn't stand out to me as a rolefish either. It looked like a lulzy response to a silly post from Kid A. At least in 15 I could have

understood

the argument that he was trying to "breadcrumb" doc even though I would have disagreed with it.

How do you feel about displaced, ruflig voting on Aronis for post 20?

[Josh_B]

I currently think yates is more likely town than scum, yeah. He could be scum but not really feeling that at this point because he is actually not spewing clarant bullshit like other players.

I think he is easily top five for the spewing accusation. Is that the main thrust of your case for town him 'less poo flinging than others'? It doesn't seem like much to go on.

Also, would you be willing to vote for Ruff? I'm really pretty sure on my Ruff scum read? :p

I have a town read on Ruffling for the reasons I presented. I'm serious - why would he say hat if he was scum. If he was scum he either had a townie defending him, in which case, yay, go townie! Or I was his scumbuddy defending him, in which case - why attack me for defending him? Or...I dunno, maybe both Yates and him are scum and he was annoyed I was attacking his buddy? In which case let's just lynch Yates. Am I missing something here? It feels like a good case.

This is a ridiculous case, I'm town and I defended him, there for he's town too?

[Josh_B]

Also, Aronis shouldn't have been shot. jk says he thought that Aronis was scum. Aronis wasn't scum. I went back through the DP and tried to find out who if anyone was pushing for this. I'm not surprised that I found Ruflig.

ZZZX can wait for now, Let's ratchet this Back up to where it needs to be.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ruflig

[Josh_B]

Is Rufflig's page 3 vote on Aronis your main reason for voting him now?

I haven't spoken to my other head for a little bit. He should be back this weekend, so I'll talk to him about the game then, I won't place a vote until he gets back.

No not the vote, but the case he made on him for voting him has a lot to do with it. First it was high fives with SqG over the double tap on the Dr fish, Then he came up several cases against a few users that I thought were pretty wild over some mediocre crap. But more recently this whole SqG defending that he's town because he attacked her for attacking someone that he was attacking seems like a chainsaw-bus combo that SqG is making up. From what I've seen so far, this is something that I think I could expect from them.
So in reality, none of his serious cases have had any weight to them, but he's pressing them really hard. This in combination with the awkward relationship that is going on between him and SqG his play style doesn't seem normal.
The only problem I'm having is- I can only pick one. However, I'm choosing to Lynch Ruflig on the grounds that someone (at least JKLash) is following his destructive lead.

[Josh_B]

I've been rereading through the DP. I'm on pg 8. right now instead of 30 where I'm posting this.

If SqG is on one of the Mafia teams, do you think the "Pidgey scum hunting right out of the gate" comment was an indicator that Pidgey's displaced vote was spot on.

I'm just seeing some weirdness here128 aren't RVS votes supposed to be shitty?

147 Is Ruflig truly willing to wait on voting for people with empty posts, (because he had already voted on Aronis by this time) or was he just defending displaced 139

So My vote is on this early triangle of suspicion. Let's see where it goes.

[Josh_B]

If SqG is on

one of the Mafia teams

, do you think the "Pidgey scum hunting right out of the gate" comment was an indicator that Pidgey's displaced vote was spot on.

Quick Quesiton for anyone that cares to answer. Has multiball been confirmed?

Because if not we're powerlynching the fuck out of Josh_B right now.

Why would think anything different? Hasn't it already been stated that multiball is part of Jason's meta. I could start FoSing Team2 right now if you want, but they seem to be interested in rooting out Team1. With so many players in this game, and only getting one lynch per day, I think I'll stick with where I'm at.

[Josh_B]

Just a quick note since im at work and on phone, but i've played other jason themed super hero games.

DC universe for example.

And scum always had a fake claim. So i'd go with the idea that they wouuld have fake claims here too. For all we know, there could be 2 scum teams too, since many jason games of this size i played had 2 scum teams (DC universe, WWE 1.0, WWE 2.0)

Here is where I was able to find it. All of the conversation plus and minus a page is here. I think Yates was the first one to mention it earlier in the DP.

[Josh_B]

That was mentioned 300 posts before 742. Why would you word it that way based on a single post 15 pages before?

Because it didn't occur to me how to use the information at the time.
Because I hadn't reread the DP yet.
Because my association reads weren't lining up with my scum reads.
Considering the possibility of two scum teams made more sense when reading minor players and questionable posts that contradicted with the patterns of other players.
Occam's Razor
I don't know what to call the scum teams yet. I have it in my notes as Team1 and Team2. (NO I won't show you my notes. They'll probably get me killed +we only get one lynch per day and I've probably already said too much).
Publicly disclosing certain suspicions is a way to confirm or deny those suspicions based on the reactions of other players. i.e. my methods of scumhunting.
Is your concern over me suspecting two teams, or is it over the people I've FoS'd? And why draw attention away from the FoS'd suspects? Do you not find the FoS's adequate enough to prove the likelyhood of my suspicion?

[Josh_B]

Why Beastcharizard is Scum
by Chandra Nalaar
Mrs. Mafia
3rd Grade Social Studies
April 23, 2014

When I found out it was a daykill my mind went to compulsive or D1 only shot. It the role is town then D1 only would be powerful but quite a two-sided blade. The compulsive would be as less of a two-sided blade though but IIRC if you don't use a compulsive thing your target is chosen randomly which would be a bad thing since Town should outnumber scum.

@Chandra/Umbrage:

Can you tell me how I am obvious scum? Umbrage I think you are upset I voted you and Chandra I think you are just sheeping Umbrage. So clarification would be fantastic. If you won't do it for me do it for the actual town people whom you are trying to trick into mislynching me.

But wait, there's more! Now we're attributing reasons for Umbrage's vote and my own; Umbrage's vote is now OMGUS (even though 587 very clearly spells out why Umbrage is voting for beast). And apparently I am "just sheeping Umbrage" which implies that I'm town honestly following another's opinion, BUT WE THEN PROCEED TO PLAY THE VICTIM CARD AND CALL ME SCUM. Also, the very sentence "

If you won't do it for me do it for the actual town people

whom you are trying to trick into mislynching me

" is massive cognitive dissonance. Break it down:
Green: Assumption that I am town and want to do things for the benefit of town players.
Blue: Assumption that I am scum and trying to lead town astray.

The "actual" town? This part seems legit. Good catch Chandra. The rest of it.. Hmm? Not something I'm willing to explore at the moment. The DP only has room for one lynch at a time.

[Josh_B]

specifics-

That was mentioned 300 posts before 742. Why would you word it that way based on a single post 15 pages before?

Because it didn't occur to me how to use the information at the time.

Spoiler: Friendly Post Reduction

That was my question. How did it pop into your brain at post 742, "2 teams! Squirrrel is on one!"
It didn't. The thought "Is there evidence of two teams in the DP?" occurred to me. And I feel like there is, so I'll assume that there is UFN.

Because I hadn't reread the DP yet.

DP? Death post? What info in it points to 2 teams?

DP=Day Phase. I reread it with two teams in mind. Informed associations between multiple players.

Because my association reads weren't lining up with my scum reads.

Reads are reads not facts. Not sure how associations not lining up lead to "2 teams!" and not "my scumreads might be wrong".

Yea, I was looking for that too. My reads were confusing me. There was too much bussing, legit attacks, and awkward defenses for me to prove associations.Assuming Two semi- informed teams gave me a more reasonable sense of player actions.

Considering the possibility of two scum teams made more sense when reading minor players and questionable posts that contradicted with the patterns of other players.

No flips except a VT. No patterns exist except between unknown players and a single town player. Not getting this

.
Not true. My Vote on Ruflig is clearly defined by his aversion to put a vote on Displaced, and his reasoning for doing it being a contradiction to his own actions.(Pattern Identified) I also see some questionable interactions between him and SqG. Especially SqG's recent defense of him as town.

Occam's Razor

Simplest reason? I'm asking why it came up in your brain at post 742. I don't see evidence of it.

I had a chance to reread the Day Phase at that time. Despite it being a possibility before hand, My reread showed a likelyhood.

I don't know what to call the scum teams yet. I have it in my notes as Team1 and Team2. (NO I won't show you my notes. They'll probably get me killed +we only get one lynch per day and I've probably already said too much).

This is the first we are hearing that you suspect multiball.

How so? I provided public information from the DP that indicates everyone should be considering multiple scum factions.

Publicly disclosing certain suspicions is a way to confirm or deny those suspicions based on the reactions of other players. i.e. my methods of scumhunting.

Yes, I get that. If you are looking for scum, makes sense. If you are looking for scum on the other team, then that makes you scum.

Why in the F would I disclose that there are two teams, if I'm on one of them. Don't you think that's information that the scum teams would like to keep hidden? And why disclose it at nearly 1,000 posts if I had kept it hidden so long. Either I'm really dumb at being scum, or I'm town that want to share information that I think will be helpful to other towns for determining reads. Secondly, I suspect that at least one team already had this information. The suspicion for the team having it comes from the DC game where the scum factions were named WWE1 and WWE2. Don't you think that if you had a "2" in your QuickTopic, it would be an indicator that there was a one. I'm just Theorizing here, but -occam's razor.

Spoiler: super friendly post reduction

Is your concern over me suspecting two teams, or is it over the people I've FoS'd? And why draw attention away from the FoS'd suspects?

The two teams thing. Don't know who you have FoS'ed.
Since my attention wasn't on your suspects, I doubt it's moving away from them. Plus multitaksing FTW.

This doesn't make sense. I'm not sure what the second part of your statement has to do with the first part. Where was your attention, and where is moving to?

Do you not find the FoS's adequate enough to prove the likelyhood of my suspicion?

Umm, no? Not sure what this means in relation to my question.

Ok. Let's say that I am individually suspicious of ZZZX and individually suspicious of Ruflig. The next step is to go back and find associations between them. Are the skipping over each other's posts, are they simultaneously attacking the same person on more than one occasion, do they step in and defend or attack a person who has a votes for the other party, or do multiple people defend the same person?- you know common scum tells that would indicate that a player already knows the reasons for the other person's actions, so they aren't trying to point out how scummy the other person is acting.

This post is too long.

[Josh_B]

When I found out it was a daykill my mind went to compulsive or D1 only shot. It the role is town then D1 only would be powerful but quite a two-sided blade. The compulsive would be as less of a two-sided blade though but IIRC if you don't use a compulsive thing your target is chosen randomly which would be a bad thing since Town should outnumber scum.

@Chandra/Umbrage:

Can you tell me how I am obvious scum? Umbrage I think you are upset I voted you and Chandra I think you are just sheeping Umbrage. So clarification would be fantastic. If you won't do it for me do it for the actual town people whom you are trying to trick into mislynching me.

But wait, there's more! Now we're attributing reasons for Umbrage's vote and my own; Umbrage's vote is now OMGUS (even though 587 very clearly spells out why Umbrage is voting for beast). And apparently I am "just sheeping Umbrage" which implies that I'm town honestly following another's opinion, BUT WE THEN PROCEED TO PLAY THE VICTIM CARD AND CALL ME SCUM. Also, the very sentence "

If you won't do it for me do it for the actual town people

whom you are trying to trick into mislynching me

" is massive cognitive dissonance. Break it down:
Green: Assumption that I am town and want to do things for the benefit of town players.
Blue: Assumption that I am scum and trying to lead town astray.

The green part isn't an assumption you are town. It is saying that you have to make yourself look town in order to not be lynched. Since you aren't town you have to do it for the people who are actually town. I guess it could be read as me saying I am not town but it doesn't seem you read it that way. If you could explain how the green part is me assuming you are town that would be great. Also, if I would scum why would I have to assume you were town rather than knowing that you are?

Still seems a bit dissociative, but I can see where you are coming from. I probably would have used a self inclusive term, but you do what you have to do. Plus it wasn't what Chandra was saying, and everything else pretty much had to do with you naming Chandra and Umbrage as a team. Do you really think that Chandra and Umbrage are part of a mafia team? Can you find a possible third person that they are linked to? Generally, to get a good read on a relationship like this, there's at least one third player that can synch a definitive link.

[Josh_B]

The "faction vs. faction" comment was him accusing you and SG of being on different scum teams.

No crap. That's precisely my point. As noted above - and in my previous post - how can you even make this assumption without the info required to confirm multiball? And, specifically, how can Town even ascertain the probability of of an interaction being faction on faction versus town on faction or town on town? Are you going to address this or keep pretending you are somehow confused by my post, still? This is beginning to look like you are trying to provoke an argument between Josh and I where there isn't one.

I'm sorry that I didn't address this specifically earlier. I didn't really have much to go on at that time. But in the argument, there did seem to be some minor misreps on both parts. I usually find misreps to be a keen scum tell. After reading the pages again today, it could be that Yates was trying to get a read on SqG, or entice a slip. SqG seems to be back peddling on not such a weak target. Although I have a FoS on SqG for other reasons, I read Yates as null leaning town, and SqG as null-leaning scum at that particular time. I have a more confidence in some of my other reads that have nothing to do with that argument. On the other hand if Yates is scum, the "I'm town, what faction are you on?" comment was pretty convincing. -and I'm town btw if you haven't figured it out already.

[Josh_B]

vote:Yates

@Beast-either start sheeping me or die.

@Josh, you are town, I am town. Help me kill scumYates.

Yea. That's semi important. Can we Lynch Ruflig first? That dude is S-C-U-M
and Yates doesn't actually fit into any of my association reads. So he's doing well for now.

[Josh_B]

- The main crux of my problem with you is that I didn't think you were being consistent with YOUR standards.
- You claim you saw pidgey scum hunting out of the gate.
- I challenged you on that.
- You were unable to adequately justify your stance because you were just tossing out posts that you claim indicated pidgey was scum hunting.
- Pidgey has since come in and basically said, "I have not yet begun to scum hunt." [click spoiler for exact words]

Spoiler:

I pretty much agree that squirrel girl calling me a super scum hunter for my first posts is weird lol dunno if its town or scum but it does look like trying to get allies and getting on my good side?

- So pidgey wasn't scum hunting [by his own admission], I was and continue to be scum hunting, and you appear to have faked reads on my slot and pidgey's slot.

THAT is where we are at. Ball is in your court.

1. Okay.
2. Yes, I did claim this.
3. Yes, you challenged me on it.
4. I guess I was unable to do so in your opinion, but feel I did justify my stance.
5. Actually his post doesn't say that he wasn't scumhunting

at all

- that's either you trying to read into it a lot or just sort of twisting his words and choosing to run with it.
6. Pidgey was scum hunting. I don't think you were. I did not fake my reads.

The ball has already left my court because I'm voting you and continue to be pretty happy with that vote. I think you're pretty wildly trying to rephrase the nature of the debate because I'm on to something with you, and that makes me more focused on my vote. It's especially good for me because now people can click that spoiler and see what you're calling "basically saying that he's not scumhunting" and should be able to draw their own, very clear, opinions about which of us is looking fake in what they're selling.

I think this post decently sums up the entire argument between Yates and SqG. and to think it all started with

I don't have much of anything to off Pidgey on, but will admit to a slight gut townish on him moreso than Yates simply because he appears to be trying to scumhunt right out the gate which Yates did not. I would neithe rparticularly support nor oppose either being lynched at this stage.

It was very peculiar for SqG to say Pidgey was scum hunting at that time, and the "[he] doesn't say that he wasn't scumhunting

at all

disclaimer looks like back peddling. The "right out of the gate" scum hunting claim was negated.

[Josh_B]

still haven't seen a lynch candidate that rivals beastcharizard...

You seem to be the only one that thinks so at this time.

[Josh_B]

@Josh you really don't the BS that Yates is spouting here?

town can't really do anything about it [multiple scum teams]

Preach on. Why is Nero pretending he doesn't get this?

What the absolute fuck is this?

WTF am I going to do about multiple Scum factions except use the information as a reason to vote certain people. Of those people, let's say I figured out the exact people on each team already. I still only get to VTL one per day. When I got the information about multiple factions, I applied it to the posts that were already in the DP and my scum list made more sense. For the time being, I'm asserting that Ruflig is the better target and I'm not ready to get of my horse on that. Bring me a list of his probable associates and we'll talk.

[Josh_B]

sclaimer you're talking about is something Yates said I believe - not so

I still don't understand what scum hunting Pidgey was doing that elicited your original statement. I don't think anyone does. The more I look at it, the more I think the comment was based on insider information.

[Josh_B]

In our last game you seemed sorta spammy. Talk to me about Yates and Piggey.

Yeah, really weird that Squirrel would offer her thoughts on Pidgey at that stage.

"scum hunting right out the gate" It isn't scummy that you responded to NeroCain. It's scummy that there are no grounds for the claim you made about Pidgey's activity. Since you haven't shown any reason to make such a claim, and multiple people have asked you about it, there must be information that you aren't sharing. i.e. you made a slip.

[Josh_B]

Why would think anything different? Hasn't it already been stated that multiball is part of Jason's meta.

I could start FoSing Team2 right now if you want, but they seem to be interested in rooting out Team1.

With so many players in this game, and only getting one lynch per day, I think I'll stick with where I'm at.

I strongly believe this is claiming scum.

Aunt Jemina, you seem like a nice country girl that hasn't been to town in while. We should go on a date and I'll take you there. Wear something nice because:I'm coming in my pants

[Josh_B]

So I'm still confused what you're on about - I don't feel like you actually understand the situation because it feels like you're bringing up weird points.

Ok, This should have been brought up before. What's your read on Displaced?

[Josh_B]

Top 4 wagons suck.

What's your top pick then?

[Josh_B]

@displaced, SqG. Pidgey says that the reference that was made to his scum hunting was from another game where he hit scum on his first vote. SqG's comment would indicate that Pidgey hit scum again on his first try. But how does SqG know that? We have been talking about whether she thinks Pidgey is town and the actual thing that we're questioning is How does putting a weak, early vote on Displaced identify townness, or indicate scum hunting more than anyone else?

If it isn't about Pidgey, then it must be about Displaced, but why? Is it because she already knows that he is scum?
After two days of talking about this, SqG's response concerning Displaced is empty and null. But at the same time, she seems ignorant that such a connection was indicated by her post.

[Josh_B]

I feel like people are ignoring my questions.
@ nero cain: I'm pretty sure I've asked you 2 or 3 questions I didn't get answers too
@ josh b: you didn't answer my question about 2 scum teams, although you did basically cover what I was asking with pere
@ people voting rufflig: no one has given me a clear case on him, and I've asked for this at least a couple of times

Sorry bro, sometimes when more than one person asks me a question, I choose one post and respond in tandem
But about the Ruflig case, You are kidding me right?!?! You quoted half my post regarding my read on him, but you didn't respond to that part. See 742... again.

[Josh_B]

And since UFN was already in my notes, I don't mind hopping over to that wagon for now.

VOTE: UnfriendlyNeighbors

[Josh_B]

[quote="In post 846, Squirrel Girl"][/quote]
Read the Day Phase. Look at it again.
1. Pidgey put's a weak early vote on Displaced
2. SqG says Pidgey is scum hunting and therefore more town than Yates.
3. Yates says WTF to SqG
4. Pidgey says that he thinks "2" was a reference to Disney Princess Mafia that he played with SqG
5. Yates and SqG go at it over Pidgey without addressing the possible relationship between SqG and Displaced as the grounds for "2".
Scenarios-
1. SqG knows that displaced is mafia. She is commenting on Pidgey's expert randomness and calling it scum hunting.
OR
2. SqG doesn't even realize that she made that connection, or that such a connection could be made from her comments.
AND
3. SqG equates weak early votes to scum hunting which she believes is alignment indicative.

Conclusion-
SqG's ignorance on how Displaced fits into the equation seems legit. If there are reasons to vote SqG, they aren't here.

[Josh_B]

MalaKittens seems town. Reading the first 10 pages? Woot!

[Josh_B]

WOW! ZZZX that is a really unfriendly post that indicates UFN has a power role that somebody doesn't want to lose.

Quick Town! Drop the hammers on Unfriendly Neighbors.

[Josh_B]

I don't see how ZZZX's post has anything to do with UN.

-Bulba

Let's say you were scum goon, and one of your team mates with a power role was being threatened to be lynched. How would you play it?
ZZZX's post is too erratic to come from a common scum without purpose, and too manipulative and misleading to come from town.
The most recent upturn on a wagon was that of UnFriendlyNieghbors.
Now that we know ZZZX is obvscum. We should evaluate the reasons for such a post-

i.e. Sacrifice for protection

.

[Josh_B]

Spoiler: ignorant post that doesn't need to be shown again, but included for reference

I couldn't get the wall back but here is the summery

474: I find it weird for him to defend him for his claim, We the reasons to push KidA were not the claim mainly (As demonstrated that this is a Jason game that has fake claims like butter)

479: Makes no sense and contradicts its self, Let me read it again

(This game has fake claims so claiming anything doesnt make you town) (3 words later) (If you claimed a big role you are nearly 100% town)

Well Jason games showed that you can have a major role un-filled with pro town players, And could be a fake claim.

483: Trys to contradicts himself again... After believing in fake claims 4 posts later he denys them(??) and again defends KidA (Which is unnatural, But actually makes KidA town unless Josh_B was still new. (A tactic for a later on I saw being done in a few completed games I read in my free time)

485: A weak explaination to 483?

489: Changes his opinion after someone supported his first theory of no fake claims (What the hell?) and again defends KidA without a good reasoning. Again thats mostly the tactic I descriped in 483 (Where he will try to keep KidA alive if possible to be a weapon in Lylo if he survived that long.

502 No comments

509 Believes that scum's fake claims should be a liability. Idk nothing to say about this one

511 Nothing to say


I had a full Wall 0 text full of theorys and explainations but it was lost

First off, my interest was not in KidA, it was a press on BulbaFenix. I noticed that they had been tunneling on this for a while and it was giving me mixed signals about their slot. Secondly, it should be obvious that I don't have experience with predetermined Fake Claims being provided by the Mod. But most importantly This:
518

Why claim that you haven't read the posts (848) when you were part of the conversation in the beginning?
You are definitely scum.

[Josh_B]

Sorry for the Tiny Text. I didn't do it on purpose. I tried to get that post out 3 different times and I finally just pared it down to the very basic concept.
ZZZX claimed that he hadn't read the posts despite him having commented on the posts when they occurred. Both times when he called me scum, his comments were misrepresenting the facts and forcing scuminess into my posts that wasn't there.

Now. ZZZX is scum and he's made it obvious which is an unnatural scum thing to do. So, I'm trying to consider his motivation for doing it. I think it's because of the recent snowballing on the UFN wagon. There is no way a scum would be so blatent about his misreps unless it was to save a partner with a PR.

I suspect that ZZZX is a Goon and UFN is the PR that he is trying to protect.

P-edit. ZZZX, Not knowing what was said is one thing. Not remembering what you said is an obvious red flag.

[Josh_B]

Whatever, ZZZX is scum, but why does he make it so obvious.
Let's lynch him and find out logical my theory is.

VOTE: ZZZX

[Josh_B]

Whatever, ZZZX is scum, but why does he make it so obvious.
Let's lynch him and find out logical my theory is.

VOTE: ZZZX

Sorry for the Tiny Text. I didn't do it on purpose. I tried to get that post out 3 different times and I finally just pared it down to the very basic concept.
ZZZX claimed that he hadn't read the posts despite him having commented on the posts when they occurred. Both times when he called me scum, his comments were misrepresenting the facts and forcing scuminess into my posts that wasn't there.

Now. ZZZX is scum and he's made it obvious which is an unnatural scum thing to do. So, I'm trying to consider his motivation for doing it. I think it's because of the recent snowballing on the UFN wagon. There is no way a scum would be so blatent about his misreps unless it was to save a partner with a PR.

I suspect that ZZZX is a Goon and UFN is the PR that he is trying to protect.

P-edit. ZZZX, Not knowing what was said is one thing. Not remembering what you said is an obvious red flag.

So you say UFN is the PR mafia and you... vote me?

How contridacting yourself

Its called wifom Son

zzzx- Die you dirty post skipper, and hater against progressive thought.

@rufflig - I'm pretty sure you have it backwards. the case on ZZZX is independant from UnfriendlyNeighbors. But the obviousness of ZZZX shot through the roof after the wagon on UFN went up. UFN doesn't really have to be first, we can take out the goon, and be just as close to our wincon as we were before + I still have my eye on you Rufflig.

Nero- Join the crowd, stop tunneling on Yates and trying to start a counter wagon.

[Josh_B]

Too many old faces. I still hate Nero passionately.

This looks really town. Scum normally like to buddy, not enter a game and declare hatred.

Oh god please stop

The whole point of making this account was so I'd stop being declared town and then NK'd immediately. Ruins /ALL/ of my games :L

What?! are you
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46163

[Josh_B]

Sadly both result in me dying super early and never having any fun in this game. Which is why I've recently been playing on a Hydra that should balance it out a tiny bit.

And fuckin' alt slip.

I had no idea. I'm still new, so I still have no idea who you are. I was just guessing based on recent active posts.

[Josh_B]

Also, I'll jump back on the unfriendly wagon.
VOTE: unfirendlyneighbors

[Josh_B]

Also, I'll jump back on the unfriendly wagon.
VOTE: unfirendlyneighbors

UNVOTE: UnfriendlyNeighbors

Purrrrrfect, just the reaction I was looking for.

VOTE: Josh_B

Dangit, Get off me. I switched in response to Nero saying get off the vanity wagons. What did you do that you think is so special that I reacted to? Want to talk about being easily read town, all of the people left voting me are scum, if you read the DP, you would know that. The problem is we can't lynch everyone that I think is scum in one day.
I've been on the UFN wagon this whole time, The only reason I took a break from it was because I think ZZZX was calling me scum to draw the lynch and protect them.

[Josh_B]

[quote="In post 1028, ThAdmiral"]
As much as I haven't liked zzzx this game he does raise a decent point here.
@ joshb: if you suspect both of being scum, and you think ufn is the pr why go after the goon? Also ufn already has more vote on.
edit: never mind you voted ufn, still can you take me through your thought process re: zzzx?

I've FoS'd ZZZX since 518
when he gave a bunch of crap reads. Check out a few pages ahead see what the responses are. I especially think it was odd that he said he was getting scum vibes, but called the player neutral. There's a disconnect there. Also this is another time he commented on my questioning of fake claims, but he doesn't seem to remember his own actions.

[Josh_B]

@Squirrel

- Comments on players other than Pidgey, Yates?

I've called the following town and still believe that; Ruffling, Nero, Chandra, JKlash

I've called the following scum and still believe that; Josh, Umbrage, Displaced, TheAdmiral

I will admit my read on Mozimas is getting wonky. I like a lot of what is being said there, I still don't like the early play. I guess call it a nullish to scum read now. I have a generally positive vibe towards Aunt Jemina though she feels hard to read. Basically I feel like she could fake me out easily. I sort of generically am okay with the pushes on ZZZX, beast, and maybe even Unfriendly (though that last one I would be hard pressed to describe the case, but the sort of recriminatory lashing out response feels dirty to me) Most of the rest of the crowd I don't think I have a very good feel for, a lot just feel like they...well, exist. I ean, they've done stuff but they don't feel like they stand out. I am pretty much content with the idea of flipping one of my scum reads until I hit a scum and then reassing at that point thogh, because otherwise I can't figure out how you're supposed to sort this many people - there's too much we don't even know yet.

Wow! SqG, this post totally flipped my read on you... except I can't find where you called any of those people scum. Can you link to it? Because...

I have a null read on Displaced. I think it's best I don't say anything about gut reads or leans or compare him to the strength of other null reads because then another derpstorm will start up.

and

Josh isn't even calling me scum, he's arguing that I'm town due to things that didn't happen!

and

Umbrage tends to give early town reads that cause him trouble later in the games. It looks like he seriously cares about mislynching and is reducing the number of wagonable suspects.

Actually, maybe that doesn't include 'weird town reads' just generically town reads. So I recalled that wrong. I don't find Umbrage's town call for XXCYD any more or less thin than any of his other town calls though - just as a compare/contrast consideration.

and... no mention of TheAdmiral anywhere that I can find.

[Josh_B]

I've FoS'd ZZZX since 518
when he gave a bunch of crap reads. Check out a few pages ahead see what the responses are. I especially think it was odd that he said he was getting scum vibes, but called the player neutral. There's a disconnect there. Also this is another time he commented on my questioning of fake claims, but he doesn't seem to remember his own actions.

I'm not questioning that zzzx is one of your suspects, that's clear. I mainly want to know why, if you thought

both

zzzx and ufn were scum,

and

you thought ufn was pr scum, why you still voted zzzx?

WIFOM- Both glasses are poisoned. I still want to lynch ZZZX because I think his alignment is scum, but I know that I only have one vote, and there is more than one scum, so I'm willing to lynch others that I think are scum too. There are about 7-8 people that I think are scum. But, there's only one lynch per day. Even if I FoS'd all of them, we'd still have to wait for the continuing DP's to lynch them. In the mean time, in order to lynch scum, with probable multiball, I know that some scum are still going to be on wagons that are helpful to the town. And the short break on the UFN wagon was really a response toward Viomi, and Rufflig. For UFN, I had them as a middle scum, but I have town read on PegV. So if he picked up on some inconsistencies from that slot too, I'm willing to go with it.

[Josh_B]

Wow! SqG, this post totally flipped my read on you... except I can't find where you called any of those people scum. Can you link to it? Because...

In this post I discuss 8 people who I gave reads on already.
You point out that 3 of them were not clearly stated...and are not actually even correct, I had a number of flat out clear comments that you just didn't even find, making me not even sure you even managed to show that I didn't...and I'm not sure what it shows even if you did. Mostly I think you're scum though.

WHERE ARE THE CLEAR COMMENTS? I WANT YOU TO SHOW THEM TO ME! nac

I specifically asked you about displaced earlier and you called him Null. Now all of a sudden he's scum and you've called him scum before. Were you talking to people in the DP when you said it? cause you have people on you right now saying that your reads post is bogus.

[Josh_B]

Also answer my last post question. Who are your other reads?

WTF is up with your erratic posting. Earlier because you think you were ignored, and now with the again with the double spacing.

Spoiler: peaceful moment

I don't usually post a players list unless the game is stale. Which it isn't, so I'm not going to.

[Josh_B]

Why are you using that kind of read

Which kind of read?
Why do I think there are two teams? I've already answered this question.

Stop asking me about the same BS that I've already explained.

Why am I saying that UFN is a PR? Because you popped up so erratically with misreps, taking things out of context, displaying my posts out of order, pretending that you forgot what you said, and still you keep claiming that I was defending KidA when my purpose was to get information from BulbaFenix on a thing that I thought he was tunneling on, which turned out to be me not understanding the game mechanics. I understood that KidA could make a fake claim(claim falsely), but I didn't know that predetermined fake claims could be given by the mod before the game start. There's a difference between the two, that you don't seem to understand, or that you are denying.

Plus I don't think I need to repeat myself over and over. Just because I put my response under your quote tag doesn't mean that I'm not responding to you. Do you have a time limit on your posts? Or do you think I should be focused on every stupid post you make? If several people are asking me the same question, I expect those several people to read my posts. Like happened here:

And here:

when I responded to:

But I didn't want to make that post until it was confirmed that Yates was misrepping the situation. There are like three pages talking about the situation interrupted with your childish behavior about whether I'm using quote tags from your posts.

[Josh_B]

This is your post against me

This post is uber bs that contains nothing that actually makes sense doesn't it?

You can thank your friend Yates for this one. Are you reading the game or are you just taking everything I've ever said from my ISO. The case is actually 602. Maybe you didn't find it because it was in a Spoiler. Maybe you forgot about it, too. Are you trying to get everyone to Force Scum read you? We are going to push the Wagon on Unfriendly Neighbors and then we will come back for you DP2. We only get one lynch you know. But... maybe there's a Vig that can help us move this process along.

[Josh_B]

WHERE ARE THE CLEAR COMMENTS? I WANT YOU TO SHOW THEM TO ME! nac

I specifically asked you about displaced earlier and you called him Null. Now all of a sudden he's scum and you've called him scum before. Were you talking to people in the DP when you said it? cause you have people on you right now saying that your reads post is bogus.

I'll happily respond to this as soon as you tell me the scumtell. is your idea really that somehow I'm in a theory daytalk scum QT theory scumhunting for theory other scum? That doesn't even make sense and leaps over a few hurdles to even get to a place where it slightly looks like a scumtell.

I'm very happy with my scumread on you, and endorse the wagon as full of nutty goodness. Is Yates your buddy, or is he part of the other scum team you're hunting in your Daychat QT?

Great, thanks for bringing up the Daychat, it shows what's on your mind, and is a great way to try to avoid the issue. Now, how about you support the reads you made, and at least show where you called the people on your list scum. If you have said what you say you have said, show me, and I'll drop it. Because1063 looks like some fake unsupported pidge podge that contradicts a lot of other statements that you've made.

[Josh_B]

Why are you using that kind of read

Which kind of read?
Why do I think there are two teams? I've already answered this question.

Stop asking me about the same BS that I've already explained.

Why am I saying that UFN is a PR? Because you popped up so erratically with misreps, taking things out of context, displaying my posts out of order, pretending that you forgot what you said, and still you keep claiming that I was defending KidA when my purpose was to get information from BulbaFenix on a thing that I thought he was tunneling on, which turned out to be me not understanding the game mechanics. I understood that KidA could make a fake claim(claim falsely), but I didn't know that predetermined fake claims could be given by the mod before the game start. There's a difference between the two, that you don't seem to understand, or that you are denying.

Plus I don't think I need to repeat myself over and over. Just because I put my response under your quote tag doesn't mean that I'm not responding to you. Do you have a time limit on your posts? Or do you think I should be focused on every stupid post you make? If several people are asking me the same question, I expect those several people to read my posts. Like happened here:

And here:

when I responded to:

But I didn't want to make that post until it was confirmed that Yates was misrepping the situation. There are like three pages talking about the situation interrupted with your childish behavior about whether I'm using quote tags from your posts.

Also I like when you point our you responded to me in the 600s while we are above the 1k mark.

I find your reads just trying to push the lynches away which is also scummy.

After I read this I think either you guys are drunk or I am....

@theadmiral. Can you clarify? You quoted my post twice and the besides you thinking that the post is shit, I don't follow. Are the comments to the second quote related to my post or to another post?

I think we resolved my whole reliance on character claims as proof of alliance.

This:

He means shit. He means your case is shit.

It looks particularly bad because it is an attempt to pile pressure on the current lynch leader.

Was supposed to be in response to this:

ZZ could be scum, that was pretty weak.

What do you mean by pretty weak?

I think there was a ctrl-c fuckup somewhere along the line.


to clarify, however, I thought

your

post was terrible because you were attempting to drum up support for a kida lynch using his inexperience, tendency to jump from wagon to wagon, and fear that he could negatively impact the game later (when there are less people) as reasons. None of these relate to him actually being scum, just a hinderence. In fact you imply he is town with the line "what's he going to be like when the town pool is getting smaller and smaller and the scum are becoming more and more manipulative in their play style?", i.e. if you think he is liable to be manipulated by the scum clearly you don't think he is one.

Yeah, but that's the point though. i think all I did was basically re-state what was already contained in that post, and you didn't even seem to buy half of it, but suddenly your demeanor went from 'can lynch SG' to 'pals with SG' it didn't feel like a legit mental shift considering the interaction. That's why I called it out.

K. I mean does it make you think I'm scum or not. If not I don't really see the point in bringing it up.

And I've been debating this, but I suppose my answer is - yes, yes it does make me think you might be scum. Mostly because it doesn't feel like a logical mental shift, which makes me feel like the presented stances from you are false because they don't flow logically. I also feel like you're being evasive in this discussion.

cool

Nope. How many other players do you hear in this discussion? No one else cares.

Cheeky fucking scumbutt. You're right, it's quite plain no one is going to bother lynch you over what is essentially a scumclaim because they aren't paying attention. Good deduction. Keep refusing to link to a post that doesn't exist.

Why isn't this dead yet? Can I have a double vote?

I have to admit I haven't really been paying attention to rufflig. Sell me on the idea of lynching him.

Sad part: I called josh b for the reason you just called me for.. When did I say that's the reason?

Pro tip : I didn't stop saying I said things I didnt say.

Well, DP1 has been fun so far. I'm ready to move on if everyone else is. But now it's time Follow the Scarlet Witch as chaos tends to do, with a little erratic game theory and touch of wagon mongering. I'll try to add as many links as I can, but FTW this game is bungled by flame wars. I hope I can make this post as clear as possible.

Spoiler: considerate wall reduction

Pidgy486and/or Yates(499) alerted me to the probability of two scum factions in this game that has put behavior of several players into question.
At the beginning of the game(p1) 3 people came on strong as role fishing after Aronis claimed to have an awesome character.
Squirrel Girl
Ruflig
ZZZX
It isn't absurd to want to know who got what character, but the issue against these three is that both SG and Ruf were both like, "IS IT A DOCTOR?!?!"
And it was ZZZX's second attempt for role fishing, the first being against SG.

Then there's the follow up. Ruf praising SG for her knowledge(17) and SG giving a random, yet pointed role description of an antagonist character(18).

I wish she would have called dibs. We'd be sure she was scum.

Forward to SG rolefishing KidA(not that far (21)) and Ruf voting Aronis and explaining his case against Aronis's "minor role fishing"(152)

as opposed to his own full on role fishing mentioned before

Anyways, I don't want to requote the whole damn DP, I'm getting to a point. I noticed this post by Yates

Spoiler: Yate post

VOTE: Aronis

He's a gross lurker, but calling post 15 a "rolefish" is a bit of a stretch. To me it reads as a snarky reaction to:

You are Professor Doctor Awesome?

and

Maybe he's Dr. Decibel.

So two people jokingly referred to him as a "Doctor."

Referring to the primary role fishing infractions, but oops forgot to include his partner on that train.

Hello Scum

It makes me feel like the Yate's/SG war was Faction on Faction considering the misreps that were coming from both sides.

they've already been pointed out so read the DP if you want to see them for yourself.

So, That being said, For the scummiest continued game play besides these incidents. I'm voting ZZZX,

since I only get to pick one

.
VOTE: ZZZX
I know we still have some time left in the DP, but with 24 pages worth of play, I feel like I have a reasonable amount of info to place a solid vote.

When the hell did I role fish?

Fun fact; I was from the few who didn't go in that doctor argument and now I am called for it



SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS ARE SAYING I SAID THINGS I DIDN'T



EITHER QUOTE ME OR DONT TALK ABOUT IT.


God I feel better after expressing my anger

Well I answered your case josh before 10 pages

I guess you didnt care to reply to it yet.

Well at least since yu are dayvig'd you don't need that since you are scum.

So got anything to say?

[Josh_B]

MOD can you delete post 1178. It was an accident.

Also I like when you point our you responded to me in the 600s while we are above the 1k mark.
I find your reads just trying to push the lynches away which is also scummy.

Isn't it funny how I can do that to you because you are asking me about BS that I posted 500 posts ago?
I've written a paper on this before about the second sentence because it's trivial, but you are actually confirming that you are scum.
{I find your reads just trying to push the lynches away which is also {personal alignment of poster}}. FIX THIS in your game.

Well I answered your case josh before 10 pages
I guess you didnt care to reply to it yet.
Well at least since yu are dayvig'd you don't need that since you are scum.
So got anything to say?

[/quote]
You've outed your whole team. WE ARE GOING to LYNCH Unfriendly Neighbors, WE ARE GOING to LYNCH ZZZX, WE ARE GOING to LYNCH MetalSonic.
Viomi, You'll get yours too.

VOTE UFN!! LOOK at the post that happened before I was dayviged.

[Josh_B]

Well you posted BS 500 posts ago and are still doing so, The last reply you did was 500 posts ago to me, and It had an extreme ammount of BS and you didnt even defend your self.


And outed team? Sorry but your way of thinking is weird
Lets say for a moment that I was a scum. (Which I am not)

So any half assed scum would try to lessen contact to his scum partners or bus them.

Idk about you making me "scum partner" with every single person I town read. (Even thou I had not a single interaction with UFN that is worth mentioning.
Ok now think again.

I had no interactions with Metal Sonic's slot pre- Replace

, And lets say we were scum. (Which again we are not.) The best course of action is lay low since we both did not get to discuss during pre-game since he replaced in.
Now Back to reality. This is a way of scum reading which is basically thinking like a scum. I honestly see all things I said here done by you. You refuse to give reads and also try to lessen your communication with a number of people around you.

Also your push on me had no reason and its still there, Reminds me of That one mafia game...

FVCK YOU. YOu are on the Mafia team. IDGAF if MetalSonic is on your team or not. TWO Day Vig's from two different people in the same slot against the towniest towns= SCUM.

[Josh_B]

Metal's gambit makes me think town. Most (all?) "lolz" gambits I have seen on site have come from town.

Didn't seem like a Lolz gambit. 1184 That's two shots against town from the same slot. We already knew that Jklash dayvig'd once. Whether or not he still has a second shot is debateable. With Jklash, I thought this is just a player that doesn't know how to use it. With a new player in the same slot pulling the same crap. It looks really scummy.

[Josh_B]

Metal's gambit makes me think town. Most (all?) "lolz" gambits I have seen on site have come from town.

Didn't seem like a Lolz gambit. 1184 That's two shots against town from the same slot. We already knew that Jklash dayvig'd once. Whether or not he still has a second shot is debateable. With Jklash, I thought this is just a player that doesn't know how to use it. With a new player in the same slot pulling the same crap. It looks really scummy.

You're not town

How did it make you feel when your dayvig didn't happen? If you fake an ability like that, who in their right mind isn't going to want to lynch you?

Viomi- ewe are wrong. Plus I don't have very much scum experience, so my scum game is really obvious. I get nervous and forget things that I said earlier in the DP. Sometimes I'll even forget that I gave a read justification on someone, then I have to make up new read justifications which are different from my old read justifications. I think a lot of people have this problem as scum.

[Josh_B]

How did it make you feel when your dayvig didn't happen? If you fake an ability like that, who in their right mind isn't going to want to lynch you?

People who know he replaced into a dayvig more than likely town spot???????

How would you feel if you were fake dayviged? I've learned the hard way proof of role is not proof of alignment. But, if you can't tell, I'm pretty sour about it.

[Josh_B]

Could I define some of the abbreviations to get a more solid response out of you on the issue? You're town reading and defending the guy over this issue, and I think that's a pretty weird post that speaks *directly* to the question of him seeming too aware/convinced of multi scum (and other things) and yet you don't seem to be coming out with a clear response about his townishness in regards to it. He presumes two scum teams, okay, that's believable from town, I suppose, though I personally think it's a bit of a stretch (maybe a 50/50 in larges? I dunno - making up numbers here). Then he makes the jump to daytalk, which from what I can tell is hardly a given on this site (call it another 50/50 - and I failed/never took statistics, but that's probably a 25% or so theory game he's created in his head...that he's *using to scumhunt with*). Then he goes a step further and is like, scum are scumhunting with each other in their QTs. Which...I don't think I've ever seen, and though I guess it could be happening it...y'know, is weird. Like, first off, what sort of accusation is that to even throw at someone? What can I even say about it? And why does he believe it enough to state it with confidence? That moment made me basically as happy with a Josh lynch as a Yates lynch - and I didn't think that was going to happen today. I was pretty happy in my tunnel (and don't think it's anti-town even though it makes others grumpy). Can you tell me the town thought process here? Is it just "lulz, paranoia!" because that seems rather unlikely. What are your thoughts?

I could understand the multiball spec, although I found the QT spec weird. To be honest, I wasn't sure whether it actually was QT spec, as Josh was using a different abbreviation. It wasn't QT or PT, but something like DP or the like, which made me wonder if he might be talking about something else. In fact, he seems to be using DP to mean Day Phase, so I'm not so sure he's talking about day chat at all.

We need more votes on Rufflig.

-Bulba

DP = Day Phase. Is that not a common term here? I've been called on it a couple of times already. What do you normally call the main forum that we are posting in? I think I've seen some other poster refer to DP1 and DP2 and NP1 or NP2 for the different night phases.

OK, I like the Rufflig wagon too.
VOTE: Rufflig

[Josh_B]

Even look at that, Josh isn't even caring about the situation, he's fine with Bulba defending him from what I'm saying, and he quick lazy wagons at the same time. Add him to my list of 'I can't believe people are not just not-scumreading him, but are town reading him.'

He joins Yates.

As long as you aren't responding to my question, I can't see why people aren't scum reading you. Where's your evidence? You can't just tell us that you've said something before and then not say when you said it. I'm still waiting for you to respond.... it's been pages and you still keep talking about me asking you to prove yourself, but you haven't shown anything. LOOK IN YOUR ISO, and show me where you said the people on your list are scum.

[Josh_B]

I'm probably going to be V/LA for a little while. My daughter, broke my laptop screen. Also I didn't want to rush into this DP and possibly miss scum.
I had a long thing to post about some things, but it disapeared into the purpley mess that has taken over the entire PC. This is a tablet post, and I like haveing a keyboard, so it's going to be shorter and have less quotes than the original.

Nero, chandra, I like your analysis on the NK's but seriously I don't see how ruflig confirms the people on your list as town. I'm still suspecting multiball. If anything it prove thst thes displaced is probably scum. Now that SqG doesn't have daychat and her team doesn't either, hahahaha!. It probably means displaced is confirmed scum based bn my earlier reads.

ZZZX, Don't tunnel me this whole DP. It isn'[t worth it.

@moz. I'm not sure why TheAd was NK'd. I didn't think about him having a scum read on me. but if that's the case, ZZZX, viomi and even MS would have been better targets. Since everyone knows I'm town and I already softclaimed to BeastCharizard. I'm not going to do it again.

and Nero, seriously Ruf and Sqg were on the same team. Let's call it MUVA like it says. ?SqG a VIG?Malakittens scum? that's just misleading nonsense. So anyways. I still think ZZZX is scum, obviously the NK's mean nothing to him and he's still a carrots stealing gopher (tunneling) but we'll see as the DP progresses.

No vote for now. I'll check in as often as I can.

[Josh_B]

riginally wanted to fake vig josh b but his post with his daughter crashing his computer made me soft so I didn't do it. And that post made him look town. So I looked to see if his suspicious attacker viomi would yield good townie results. Didn't find

With all of the possible REAL suspects, You shot KidA? Seriously, based on Chandra's mentioning of KidA's experience, I thought KidA's role was "unlynchable".(I would have acted that way if I was unlynchable- actually I have acted the same way with unlynchable) I guess I'm still not used to all of MafiaScum's VT's. But regardless, a KidA lynch later in the game would have yielded more results. If you think I'm town, why didn't you shoot ZZZX? He the one that was trying to make the case on me being a scum, by using posts out of context, pretending that I didn't respond to him, asking questions that I've already answered and he repsonded to, then calling my drawing attention to it scummy. And more importantly, if you just sheeped what some other people said, why didn't you change your vote to one of the people who tricked you?

I would normally do this but good god that was retarded. So retarded that I'm going to:
VOTE: Metal Sonic

Sooo... Horrible! I don't care if you are Elektra. right now. You need public shaming.

[Josh_B]

The answer you are looking for, Grinny, can be found in the fact that I am also scumreading your slot and think you sour with Joshy.

For your crazy and independent reads, I'm going to say you are probably town. But your are definitely off. I ignored your comment earlier about the argument between me a ZZZX, but can you tell me why you thought it made me look more like scum and ZZZX more townie.

[Josh_B]

I think if we are going to try to confirm multiball, zzzx is the way to go.
I'm not seeing the t8wn in him thos game that everyone is suggesting.
Can someone make a town case on that?
UNVOTE:
VOTE: zzzx

[Josh_B]

V/LA til Sunday/Monday

[Josh_B]

Hooray, I'm back, and mostly caught up! It was a lot to take in all at once, but more to confirm the way I already felt, rather than change anything. What's the average scum ratio? I'm seeing others say its 3 on one team and 4 on the other team, but is 4 and 4 an option?

Just thought I'd let everyone know, I took a quick look at pages 66, 67, and 68, and immediately closed them.

I. Am. Not. Reading. This. Shit.

VOTE: ZZZX because I cannot fucking read this game with his constant shitposting. Regardless of actual alignment, he and Metal Sonic are the most anti-town players in the game.

I normally hate policy lynches, but I HAVE NO OTHER FUCKING CHOICE HERE.


everyone get off Viomi and on ZZZX or Sonic plz

we might not lynch scum but we'll make the game readable

Scum with viomi. Says he hates policy lynches then goes on to say he has no other choice. Also chainsaw defense on viomi.

vezo, it says your account is from 2010, yet this seems to be your first game?

Having a townread and disagreeing with a lynch does not somehow = chainsaw defense. Please look up the meaning of chainsaw defense, then come back to play.

If it were scummy to be the oldest and worst player in the game, I would vote you.

Way to regurgitate the chainsaw defense argument there guy. I nailed Ruflig and SqG on it earlier, but :trumpet sound(der-da-der): it was legit. This seems week and not thought out. I'm feeling Displaced and Vezok as the two remaining MUVA scum. MUVA having 4 players makes sense given the fact that one of their players was assigned to allow daychat.

AuntJ- I am seriously getting a town vibe from your slot. I see how you are trying to make connections and I like that. However, get off my nuts. The only people supporting your theories seem scum. I would say it's just you trying to push a lynch on a town. But you're giving details on your methods and I like that you are thinking about stuff. I'm town, I do think PerV and BulbaFenix are town, but it didn't come with out heartaches between us. Maybe you missed those, or you're calling them fake because that's what you want to believe, or you're doing it on purpose. Whichever, stop, Just because you're town doesn't mean you're exactly right.

I still feel like Yates(TWIE), ZZZX, and UFN are on the "red team" but I'm getting some mixed feeling about Chandra/Umbrage.

What do you guys think about a third faction? Would Mod meta or previous games support that idea as possible? I mean it hurts but I'm thinking 9 scum is a lot. UFN I'd vote for again, ZZZX I definitely think is scum, Yates/TWIE is probably scum with ZZZX.

Chandra/Umbrage seem to be working together to try to get BeastCharizard lynched, but I'm not sure why. Chandra's social studies project from earlier seamed really shady to me. Both of them are tunneling on the same player all game. Maybe they're right, but every time BC says anything, they're both on him as scum. Chandra was down with lynching either Yates/ Rufflig (I seriously don't think Yates was bussing SqG) so there's the mixed part.

I think BC is town. He hasn't been focused on the continuing effort to call him scum all game, he asks questions to certain people and then he drops it. I would like to see his reads though and get an idea of where he's at so far in the game. I also think it's town that no one has really been voting him, but no one is particularly saying anything in his favor either.

[Josh_B]

Dear lord this post is so very wrong.

Way to regurgitate the chainsaw defense argument there guy. I nailed Ruflig and SqG on it earlier, but :trumpet sound(der-da-der): it was legit. This seems week and not thought out. I'm feeling Displaced and Vezok as the two remaining MUVA scum. MUVA having 4 players makes sense given the fact that one of their players was assigned to allow daychat.

Take more credit for something that barely involved you, please.

Yes, I'm sure you've managed to catch both the remaining two members of that scumteam neither of whom have any noticeable associative tells with either of the flipped scum especially when there is probably only one more. Good job, you get a medal!

Thanks. Seriously, that team probably only has one more? How do you know which team has how many players. So far the theory is that one team has three and the other team has four. How can you know which team has what...unless you are on the team of four.
#MEDALRECIEVED

AuntJ- I am seriously getting a town vibe from your slot. I see how you are trying to make connections and I like that. However, get off my nuts. The only people supporting your theories seem scum. I would say it's just you trying to push a lynch on a town. But you're giving details on your methods and I like that you are thinking about stuff. I'm town, I do think PerV and BulbaFenix are town, but it didn't come with out heartaches between us. Maybe you missed those, or you're calling them fake because that's what you want to believe, or you're doing it on purpose. Whichever, stop, Just because you're town doesn't mean you're exactly right.

Said captain humility who always stops to have reasonable doubts about his own theories. This paragraph just hurts. "Stop because you're not necessarily exactly right, but I know everyone's alignment involved". Please.

I F up as town. A lot of people Fup as town. It's what makes the game fun. Trying to figure if you are or aren't right. Getting excited when you are rght and being disappointed when you aren't. And OH yes, I called out SqG on the chainsaw defense, and said she was team mates with Displaced and Rufflig a long time ago. So, BOOM vote displaced on MUVA and add Vezok as the most likely 4th.

I still feel like Yates(TWIE), ZZZX, and UFN are on the "red team" but I'm getting some mixed feeling about Chandra/Umbrage.

Your team divisions are as far as I can tell really arbitrary.

I can't help but feel like I'm suddenly on your list just because Viomi is making it popular or something.

Your on my list putting in ^^^^^Town^^^^^ markers. Probably means that your team doesn't have Daychat. Oh and because I think the BC case was wonky.

What do you guys think about a third faction?

No. A) Three scum teams is fucking stupid and barely even mafia anymore, no one would do that in a game not explicitly advertised as insane. B) Do you see three nightkills? I sure don't.

OK.

Chandra/Umbrage seem to be working together to try to get BeastCharizard lynched, but I'm not sure why. Chandra's social studies project from earlier seamed really shady to me. Both of them are tunneling on the same player all game. Maybe they're right, but every time BC says anything, they're both on him as scum. Chandra was down with lynching either Yates/ Rufflig (I seriously don't think Yates was bussing SqG) so there's the mixed part.

Wow gee it's almost like it takes more than one townie to lynch someone! Has it occurred to you that perhaps every time he posts it sounds scummy? Possibly because he's scum?
You're not sure why? Try reading my posts.
Yeah, I've been tunnelling on him all game if you ignore the fact that I wasn't on him at all for the first third of the game, during which I was tunnelling scum, and if you ignore that I've been talking about a variety of suspects and had my vote parked on Viomi several different times for a good long while.

Seriously it doesn't feel scum to me. It's more aligned with scum hunting. I still want his reads though. I can change my mind.

I think BC is town. He hasn't been focused on the continuing effort to call him scum all game, he asks questions to certain people and then he drops it.

Yeah, not following up on your questions is sooooo town! What a glowing review

Certainly isn't tunneling- especially when there are so many options to choose from!
#glowingreviews

[Josh_B]

I'm town, I do think PerV and BulbaFenix are town, but it didn't come with out heartaches between us. Maybe you missed those, or you're calling them fake because that's what you want to believe, or you're doing it on purpose. Whichever, stop, Just because you're town doesn't mean you're exactly right.

why do you think bulba is town, I don't see it.

Well, the only nontown thing that he's done all game was encourage MetalSonic to shoot a lurker. I didn't really like the way KidA was playing either once I found out that he wasn't a newb, but I thought it could be justified if he was a certain PR. Either way, I still thought that a KidA lynch would have been the more informational way to go. Both sides of the Hydra have been calling out players on AuntJ on her reads but similarly haven't given her an actual scum read that I know of. I know I'm not on a team with bulbafenix. Both sides of the Hydra seem to be looking for two scum teams. Where displaced is probably a MUVA, it could be easy for a person on the opposite team to focus on the likelyhood of the remaining foes, rather than trying to nail somebody on the other team. On one hand I really appreciate the defenses that they've given me since I was NewbConfirmed by arguing against everyone that would comment about my Mafia theories, on the other hand I'm worried about buddying, but if that was the case, there's a lot more people that agree that I was Newbconfirmed as a town, and they certainly aren't all scum, BulbaFenix probably isn't either.
I definitely don't think they're MUVA. or else KidA would have never been an option. I don't think they're on the other team, because ZZZX and UFN wouldn't be options. I'm a little late in admitting that I think Chandra is scum, but I can't lynch them all in one Phase. At this point in the game I've seen some crazy reads on people as being town based on the Ruflig/SqG flips, so maybe I ought to share where I'm pointing fingers at for the possible second team, and BulbaFenix isn't on it.

[Josh_B]

Dear Everyone-who-suspects-me

Kindly grow some balls and vote me. Include reasoning to help me distinguish between you misguided towns and you bags of scum.

Tia, displaced

Dear YOU,

I got your letter, but I'm searching for the other team right now. If you could kindly use your NK to actually shoot someone on the other team, it would be greatly appreciated. Also would you mind trying to point out the other team rather than sheeping nonsense?

Thanks for you increased involvement now that you have no Daychat and half your team is dead.
Forever FoSing you,
Josh_B

[Josh_B]

I am so not fixing your quote blocks.

Thanks. Seriously, that team probably only has one more? How do you know which team has how many players. So far the theory is that one team has three and the other team has four. How can you know which team has what...unless you are on the team of four.
#MEDALRECIEVED

First of all, most everyone holds this opinion so I guess we're all scum by your logic.
Secondly, it's because Marvel scum have both flipped powers. It's probably 3 strong roles vs 4 weak roles vs town.

Encryptor and JailKeeper are strong roles? MetalSonic as town should indicate a certain mafia advantage to some degree, either in numbers or in PR's for balance.

I F up as town. A lot of people Fup as town. It's what makes the game fun. Trying to figure if you are or aren't right. Getting excited when you are rght and being disappointed when you aren't. And OH yes, I called out SqG on the chainsaw defense, and said she was team mates with Displaced and Rufflig a long time ago. So, BOOM vote displaced on MUVA and add Vezok as the most likely 4th.

It's like you totally forgot the context. I was saying you do exactly what you were criticizing someone else for, so you should rethink your criticism. Also, cockiness from a newbie is really fucking annoying, you're allowed to do that once you produce results and stop making walls of moonlogic.

That doesn't prove anything, and I still have no idea why you think vezok is more likely to be on that team than the other.

This is about you thinking that he's not MUVA, not about whether or not he's scum. With two people off the MUVA team gone, I really expected a lot more input from their remaining players. Displaced and Vezok have both been very accommodating.

Your on my list putting in ^^^^^Town^^^^^ markers. Probably means that your team doesn't have Daychat. Oh and because I think the BC case was wonky.

The fuck are you talking about? I'm not allowed to point out things I think sound town now?

Well I think it was bloody gorgeous.

Yea, keep notes. Share them as much as you want. It's where I came to the conclusion that "red" team was hunting "black" rather than towns.
Maybe you can show me how BC fits into one of the teams. Because at this point PerV and AuntJ are more likely to be on a team than Beast with anybody.

Certainly isn't tunneling- especially when there are so many options to choose from!
#glowingreviews

This does absolutely nothing to counter the point I just made and it also sounds like you're saying tunnels are scummy which they are not.

They can be. It's up to each player to learn how to tell the difference between a scum tunnel and town tunnel. Town, especially at this point are more likely to have a few other options. There are at least 4 scum left, and possibly 6. Probably not on the same team.

[Josh_B]

I think Chandra is scum

Got a reason other than "she is antagonizing me right now"? Cause I seem to remember someone else developing a scumread on me for similar reasons!

Actually, am I correct in thinking the only people scumreading me seriously are exactly the people I've argued with at all and every one of them was after the fact (Ruff, Viomi, Josh, beast)? That's kind of hilarious.

Some things I don't like about ChandraNalaar by Josh_B:
-Putting town markers
-OMGUSing BeastCharizard based on his FoS's against her and Umbrage at the same time.
-Her town reads after the Night Phase.
-Not willing to get in on the UFN wagon and disapearing, then springing to life for a Rufflig vote.
-knowing which team has how many players
-you weren't antagonizing me, that I know of, before I thought you were scum.
-some other stuff that isn't at the top of my mind right now, and pales in comparison to what I've already said.

[Josh_B]

Will you please make an effort with the damn quote tags

What do you want me to do with them? I hit quote tags around everything that isn't what I'm adding to the conversation.

[Josh_B]

I can't believe I'm still responding to this drivel but I guess I'm kinda invested at this point.
-Encryptor is enormously powerful.
-I expect that other team to be all goons with maybe, MAYBE a godfather or a roleblocker or something.
-Why should it? How is Metal Sonic's role strong, he's shooting townies. Also, you're assuming he is actually town, which makes one of us.

How is encryptor powerful? why not just give the Mafia daychat like it says in the wiki page about the role?
About MetalSonic, it's more likely that town has some sort of vig, even if it has been used retardedly.

No it's not. I /don't have an opinion about which scumteam my suspects are on right now/ because /I don't care that much/. What it's about is you making an assertion about which mafia team someone is on, an incredibly bold claim since we don't even know they're scum, and being completely unable to give me a reason why you believe this. Meanwhile, you continue to ignore figuratively everyone telling you there probably aren't 4 Marvel scum, and then there's the part where displaced is probably town.

No I'm not. One of the MUVA scum was specifically assigned to allow Daychat. How does that restrict the team to three? Who else besides you is saying that they only have three? It's hard for me to understand you because I have given extensive reason why I believe there are two teams. And justifications for players on both teams. SqG's poor play comparing Yates to Pidgey because of Pidgey's RVS actually indicates that Displaced is scum, and a MUVA. The most important thing is that allowing your mind to consider two teams give much different reads than restricting to look for one team.
Also, how is it scummy in your mind for me to suggest certain players on certain teams, when others have done the same thing. Particularly AuntJ, who regardless of what team she thinks I'm on, knows that I can't simultaneously NK both SqG and TheAd, but has now invented an entirely different team based on her thinking that ZZZX is somehow town.

I don't /have/ to show you how he fits into a team because /one of the teams does not have any fucking scumflips yet/. Unlike you I am not actually arrogant enough, and I'm pretty arrogant in case you didn't notice, to believe I need to peg an entire four man scumteam before I start trying to lynch any of them.

I am trying to lynch them. I'm trying to lynch ZZZX right now if you didn't notice. I think he's scum, but I don't think he's MUVA. Maybe it will open up some other reads.

Please, teach me how to tell the difference, o wise teacher who joined mafiascum a month ago. Let me learn from your ways. Have you any wisdom to impart, borne from your incredible volume of experience?
(PS if you have offsite experience IDGAF)

Ad Hom. Just because I'm new to the site doesn't mean I'm new to mafia. Since you don't care, and are blatantly denying a difference in town tunneling and scum tunneling which are each based on different motives. It will be impossible to explain it to you since you clearly aren't willing to learn. Or you already know and are simply denying the fact.

Is this better?

[Josh_B]

I'm going to respond to #1891 as much as I can with out rewalling the glorious wall that post is.

Stop saying you want to lynch me. I'm still town. Derp town, but town nonetheless. (I really need to sheepmore- but I'm not going to)
OK. So, I'm F'd up on the probable number of people on each team.I'll refine my reads as much as possible and probably abandon some of them.

Free daychat, is a lot different than dependent daychat. I don't know enough about setups to defend my stance on that anymore than I already have. (shameful admission to talking about stuff I don't know)

4 vs 3. Ok. It doesn't change the possibility that MUVA is the team of 4.

This is where your reads and mine differ. I think you are reading ZZZX based on him and I not being scum together or ZZZX and neither of us being MUVA. One of us is probably scum, but it isn't me, so Lalalala.

If I am regurgitating arguments, I don't know which ones they are. If you ask me, I'm leading the DP in most original, OMGUS, erratic game theory, and content. This game has challenged me as a player and I've learned a lot about MafiaScum.

I don't care about BulbaFenix's read on you. I've given my reason for town reading you, but I think you are stuck in a death tunnel because you refuse to believe that ZZZX is scum with Yates, and not MUVA.

I don't know why the unflipped team is red. I think I just went with it when Chandra said it earlier. Plus how can you ask me why I'm not searching for a second team when you quote me identifying the second team? Ok this is OMGUS.

YES! I thought KidA should be lynched. Especially LYNCHED. CERTAINLY not dayvig'd. His playstyle and attitude wasn't conducive to town. I explained that extensively already in the DP. It's one of the posts that I replied to TheAd and ZZZX was all buthurt that I didn't respond to his post over it on at least two different occasions. And I thought he was lynchproof because Wolverine(or at least some sort of regenerative abilities that would Wolverine would actually have)

I know, you think they aren't looking for team two. You think that we are on team two together. I think we are both trying for a ZZZX lynch, maybe it's because we're both pushing for it that you are scum reading us together. -well I guess that's part of Mafia, especially in a big game like this. So whatever, but it's not me. And I don't know why you are singling BulbaFenix out for town reading me. You are going to have to add Nero, Chandra, Pidgey, PerV, and a lot of others to that list. Oh but PerV is already on our imaginary team. Consider for a moment that you are wrong on us as a team, Who would like to see Lynched, and most importantly who's flip would be the code breaker that proved the link you are seeing isn't scum related?

A scum team with me in it, wouldn't NK either of those two. The fact that you think both of the Kills point to me, should be indicative of a WIFOM frame job just in itself.

[Josh_B]

I'm not gonna jump too hard into the middle of this conversation but I just can't not nitpick at this.

Stop saying you want to lynch me. I'm still town. Derp town, but town nonetheless. (I really need to sheepmore- but I'm not going to)

Like two posts ago you were a god of scumhunting and now you admit to being derptown??

Seriously, I can't be right all the time. I feel good about our exchange so far. But I

really

don't agree with the BeastCharizard case. Specifically because of this post:

@Nero:

I was going to sheep you but then I got a heavy scum read so I decided I didn't need to sheep you. Sheeping is done when one doesn't have any strong reads but you trust in someone else's non-strong reads more than your own.

@Umbrage:

I am not lynched because not enough people share your opinion of me being scum.

@Arc:

Shooting someone town doesn't make someone scum or scummy. Plenty of vigilantes shoot town people at night but that doesn't mean we lynch them for doing so.

His response to not sheeping Nero, seems truthful and like it's coming from town. still want to see him post some reads though.

[Josh_B]

I hate to do this two weekends in a row. But I have drill starting tomorrow and I won't be back until Monday morning.

VOTE: V/LA

[Josh_B]

Ok. I'm back from drill. It was a fun weekend in the field. I'm not sure if I want to change my vote yet. Ive read up some but i havent really seen anything that stands out to me yet. I'll post more when i can repond directly to a few of the posts

[Josh_B]

I have some things to do today. I spent most of my time updating a different game. But I've been thinking about this game while I was gone. I would like to see the flip on ZZZX, I still think he's scum, but his own wagon evaluation gives me a bit of pause. I would like to see an Umbrage lynch soon, and a follow up Chandra lynch I'm unsure about, but if scum umbrage, than I'm inclined to believe scum chandra and if not scum umbrage, then possibly scum BC. However, I do not think any of these players are on the MUVA team. And as much as I want to think it is impossible for one person (Squirrel Girl) to blatantly give away their whole team, I feel like her and Ruff being on the same scum team makes it entirely possible that she did. I think that displaced's input has been more helpful after our correspondences to each other and I am feel like his FoS's since that time have been helpful and legitimate, Yet I just can't get past the early SqG statment that Pidgey's vote on displaced was scum hunting right out of the gate. As much as I want to see proof of a second team this DP, I know that there are many more DP's to come. I'm starting to feel like all of the second team possibilities that have been going around (especially because I've been perpetuating most of them) is too much WIFOM, that is going to end up with me on a bad wagon dead line lynch over the possibility for a complete annihilation of MUVA which is in our grasp but we are ignoring.

VOTE: Displaced

[Josh_B]

I am increasingly growing into the mindset that beasty is in fact sour, but is alone (perhaps a serial killer), and that I should pursue a BulbyFenny/Joshy/Grinny/Kitty team with vezzy as the other lone scum.

I'm much rather be lynching in Bulb/UFN/Mala.

Bulb/UFN/Mala>>>>BC>>>>Viomi>>>>MS>>>>nl

I'd also buy a vowel and a Rach lynch.

Would that vowel happen to be vezz-

E

?

This is along my thoughts, if removing Sonny, and moving the neighbors to that spot (the third name replacing them being Grinny). Vinny would be a decent lynch for informative purposes to allow players recalibration, but is a bad lynch otherwise as Vinny is not going to flip sour. Beasty is an okay lynch, but not ideal. BulbyFenny/Grinny/Kitty are my preferences, in order. (I would note that Joshy is still in my suspect list, but I do not foresee him being lynched today in spite of my desires.)

I also want to say that I have a severe distaste in my mouth for this scum read combo. Can anyone tell me how the crap both of these players (including the ones that wrote it) have come to a Bulbafenix/Malakittens combo. I want to see posts that link Mala and BF together. Or some sort of legit explanation that would cause this FoS.

[Josh_B]

an still make this happen, I am worried that town are being presented with a false dichotomy "Beast or Viomi" but bollocks to that let's lync

I agree that "beast or viomi", is a false dichotomy. -Now if we could just convince everyone who started it, we could lynch and move on.

[Josh_B]

We interrupt this mafia game with late breaking information.

JOSH B IS A CLAIMED IDIOT!

This is true. Somebody finally gets it.

I know that sounds harsh as fuck but I have a pretty limited vocabulary but that post was pretty dumb man. I mean no where did I say that Bulb/Mala were linked although its not exactly impossible and Bulb waving away my suspicion on Mala could be the link but that requires black scum be 4 (or I guess they could be on the white team and I was wrong about linking Mala and SQ and BuddyBulb came charging to her defense. *shrugz*) Though fussing about us have a similar reads lists seems kinda dumb.

Its possible that AJ is scum and sheeping/shadowing me, its also possible that AJ just has a similar mindset as me.

AJ, be a dear and give me a list of your nicknames for each player.

This is also true. Which is why I challenged it. On the other hand, I think there is enough information on each player that cases should be made when calling them scum. And if that's not happening, I think town players should still be questioning these empty claims of who is and isn't scum. And if you are town you should be explaining them not attacking the questioners.

[Josh_B]

posting that I'm checking in.!!

[Josh_B]

And we are back

Umm I have to ask Auntie Why do you think I am town? You have given reasoning for some of your other reads but on me you just say town read or this is her town game?

Josh B
I believe if you ISO me you will see that I voted for my scumspect AND gave reasoning. Meanwhile I think calling it the largest wagon over the Viomi wagon for example is a bit of a stretch.

I don't understand this. What did I call the largest wagon over viomi?

[Josh_B]

Aunt j- i checked the post the you posted from me. Do you want to break down what you dont like about it or are you happy advertising my posts?

Mala- can you tell me about why you dont want a displaced lynch? I think your vote would be better placed there. I like mozamis for town up to this point but this is only dp2. We are definitely not in mylo. Are there any of your preferred 2 or third place possible scum reads that you can move your vote to?

[Josh_B]

Sorry I've been gone for so long. My laptop screen broke, but I fixed it today.
I am totally voting Umbrage. I'm sorry I didn't want to believe scum Viomi. But, I want to ask Aunt J how she feels about BulbaFenix and PerV now?

VOTE: UMBRAGE

[Josh_B]

sorry, I missed the replacement
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Titus

[Josh_B]

Why is everyone voting their first/backup choices from yesterday like we didn't just get a scumflip? It's time for associative tells, people! Chop, chop!

Hear, Hear! I second this commotion.

[Josh_B]

I'd say PereV is town based on Viomi derping

Stop ignoring my points. Not derping, deary.

Truthfully claiming.

The results are the same: Grinny is town.
The reasoning differs. Because Grinny is not simply not-DC. Grinny is explicitly sweet, because Vinny received Grinny's full role PM.

Take it from the old lady who

was

the rolecop in a jason game; I know how he treats his roles.

AJ might be scum. Chandra is not.

I understand why you feel this way, deary. I have failed as my natural posting self many times before. But I have never failed as my more logical self until this game. It has left an indescribable feeling of despair. I have had reads that have been in error. I have never as my logical self so fervently advocate a read and have it turn out wrong. It is confusing. It will perhaps be humbling when I have recollected my thoughts. And it has left me knowing very full and well why there is suspicion on myself. But you have my word, deary. I spoke in earnest about my reads, for I thought them to be solid.

I am quite aware why you know Nally to be town. (This old lady sees things no other player may observe.) I ask you for trust in me to be sweet. I will die before you do by nightkill regardless, as you can tell that Vinny's defenders have been marked for death.

As much as I disliked Umbrage's posts, I actually liked Titus's. I'd like to give her a chance for now.

It is Tussy's strength as a sour player. I most certainly am not fond of her posting, in spite of how much I liked Rageys. However, my opinion is the same as yours; I wish to give her a chance for the time being.

I was so about to put your head on a chopping block for the Sour reads on BulbaFenix, PerV, and myself that you made while calling Vimmy/Vinny sweet, but then this post^^^ showed up before I had a chance to press send. Because I'm thinking that you knew PerV was town all along, and the D1 NK was supposed to lead to me being read as scum. You're absoluteness on your scum reads during DP2 give me good reason to believe that you are scum, but your willingness to recant shows a great deal of humbleness that I admire and expect only from towns. However, please do not start the day defending yet another player(slot) who has systematically put themselves in a bad position.

[Josh_B]

@JoshB, should I suppose you're not even going to read anything I post and just sheep a case without thought?

VOTE: Beastcharizard

Nope, it is with a great amount of thinking. Before the Viomi slip you were pressuring for the BC wagon. The scenario in my mind is that you replaced in, had a chance to read the scum QT (probably locked) and started your gameplay accordingly by attempting to jump on the scum desired wagon. I don't find the addition of your vote on the Viomi wagon to indicate that you are town. Particularly because .....

like, V may flip scum goon and I would be pretty surprised

but not only am i betting on her scum, i am betting on her powerful scum PR. thats 2 big bets

Since we think they are both likely scum, what about a mutual unvote and let everyone else decide. Whichever we don't lynch, we go after tomorrow/cops check.

..You called for an unvote. Umbrage was particularly fond of a not lynching Viomi, and it seems that except for the deadline pressure, you were too. Rather than getting caught up your self, you asked for everyone else to give you the cases (opposed to creating your own) Yet you had time to ISO the crap out everyone. And now with the promise you gave of giving VCA, your choice is to what? What is this thing that you are doing? -Going V/LA. I have particularly questioned Umbrage's alignment since his early interactions with SqG over using smilies. However, given the Viomi/mutleyDDC flip, I feel now like there is much more information to go on. Since Mutley's only post was to VOTE BeastCharizard. Of all things that I am sure of BC is not a DC scum, you on the other hand probably are. I am still inclined to believe Displaced is one of the remaining MUVA's because of reasons I previously mentioned {ISO "Dear You"}.

[Josh_B]

Hmm. Titus is caught as (RED) DC scum, yet he claims to be the sole remaining (Black) MUVA. But this...

I know you don't think it's anti-town or scummy. But you know that other people do think that. So why would you want to draw attention to it? I can't think of any town motivation.

Again, let's clarify that only one item on your list of three is possible for me to be treating in this way - and I find it odd you're not defending your stance or agreeing with mine on that point. Secondly, people think wagoning is scummy - I still wagon. People think asking too many questions is scummy - I still ask a lot of questions. People think posting pictures is scummy - I still post pictures. Just because I'm aware that people have issues with something doesn't meant hat I agree with them nor that I will immediately adjust my play for them, because my play does seem to work (except for getting people to listen to me - apparently ).

I didn't have town or scum motivation in the comment I did. The comment was a joke - if anything it was a motivation to suggest that his playstyle is silly. That could come from me regardless of my alignment because I do find it silly as a tell. It's about the same line as saying someone who doesn't use capital letters is scummy.

also I love the progression from this:

Except if you actually read the posts, you'll see that my beef it isn't a defense - it's noticing meta. I would have said pretty much the same thing if he did this to about three other people off the top of my head. So, again, you're just wrong.

I can understand that's your stance. I disagree with you.

to this:

Vote: Yates

And I'm here now too.

from "you're wrong but I see why you would think that" to "you're scum" in two posts.

I feel you ignored the bulk of the rest of that post, wherein I did not express much agreement with Yates or what he was doing. If you go back and read that I tink the progression will make a lot more sense to you. Let me know if it doesn't and I'll point out things for you to help you understand why I think he's scum.

...gives me a reason to think the scenario is unlikely. I say lynch him. We know that MUVA had daychat during this scenario, which makes me think the likelyhood of this convo happening publicly, or even being a concern for Umbrage to comment on, is unlikely. TITUS has claimed himself to be scum. It is unlikely that a cop would receive anything beyond a "guilty" result if he were to be investigated, so his alignment remains unknown except by death. If he is indeed MUVA, it shows that BeastCharizard was attacked by both Mafia Factions and confirms him as town. On the other hand, if TITUS is DC, It shows that BC is either Town or MUVA. But regardless, lynching Titus leaves us in a Town vs 3/2, Or a Town vs 2 vs 1, both of which are a more highly favorable position.

Because he is scum (and this it multi-ball) we take any information that he gives us with a grain of salt. If either scum faction wins, the other scum faction comes in second and the town loses.
MY VOTE IS THAT WE LYNCH CONFIRMED SCUM.

[Josh_B]

Let's say Titus is MUVA despite the awkward interactions between him and his teammates, are we going to believe that he's the only one left, or are we going to believe that he is still playing to his wincon and trying to cast a shadow over his remaining teammate(s)?

P-edit

Titus

"only" red scum would resist my ass.(double entendre intended) I've never seen refusing to lynch a confscum (or a claimed TP vig for that matter) work out in towns favor. The town ends up in a mislynch for the day, the vig (I guess you would be considered that since you claim to have no teammates alive) NKs a townie and the town has to go through the process of lynching the extraneous wincon player again the next day.

[Josh_B]

@Josh B, Look at Gundam Seed. There were mislynches but eventually I was backed into a corner.

You are in a corner now. I do see that you are in survival mode, but my hang up is that you are claiming to abandon your wincon.

[Josh_B]

If Titus is DC like we originally thought. His claiming Black Scum not only shadows red DC, it shadows black MUVA, and it continues to shadow both factions, so long as he is alive.
I think we should lynch him, because he's scum. Even though it's an early day three lynch, it isn't an early game lynch. We get get Vote count analysis, NK Analysis, and are one step closer to meeting our goal.

Regardless, I think I want to move on to why we should and shouldn't be lynching other players. I'm starting to feel like Cabd (the early D1 lynch target) and AuntJ (the overly aggressive, yet seemingly honest evaluative player) would be good future lynch targets. I'm having trouble deciding if this is because of my own residual feelings, or because Titus is still playing to his wincon, and it's probably a little of both. Even with the pressure to lynch Malakittens and her scummy "I don't want to be in this game anymore" attitude as a possible scum party, I'm not even considering lynching her but her ISO says I should be.
I know that I wasn't down with the Viomi wagon, but that BC wagon is looking scummier and scummier. A true MUVA flip from Umbrage's slot would be just as solid, and helpful as him actually being a convert TP serial killer.

[Josh_B]

@Mala, CabD, and everyone.

I'm trying to say that somethings are happening with Titus considerations, that I don't like and I am letting the possibilities get to me.
Cabd's defense of keeping scum alive, isn't giving me a good read on him. I understand the possibilities of what an actual TP Vig could do, IF THAT PLAYER HAS A JOINT WINCON w/the town. Titus doesn't have a joint town wincon, and more importantly if he is MUVA (unverifiable until death) he can still come in second if DC scum comes in first. I can understand why some towns would be interested in having a NK on top of our lynches, but this doesn't seem like a good way to go given the situation. Would town Cabd normally agree with that? I haven't been in any other games with him to know how he would react in a similar situation. Has leashing a scum worked in other games? (it never has in any game I've played). But, Cabd is a town player and other players know him to be town, I should trust that, right?

AuntJ, albeit wrong, had some seemingly legitimate associative reads early on. But, is Titus really MUVA and AuntJ is DC who was trying to stop the Viomi lynch, or did she just not like the players pushing for the Viomi wagon at that time?

Mala, pushing for the BC lynch, not pushing for the BC lynch. Rejecting the Viomi lynch, then weakly jumping on last minute. Giving a horribly selfish reason for getting on the Titus wagon. jumping off the Titus wagon the way she did.

These are three players that I'm waffleing on due to the continued discussion. If Titus is MUVA, I'll consider taking BC completely off the table and look at the players pushing for that wagon. If Titus is DC, calling AuntJ DC threatens WIFOM against her of WhiteKnighting, and cause against CabD for supporting Leashing. All of this tells me that Titus is still playing to his own wincon and not the towns, so Titus should be lynched.

I DONT like the way the discussion is going. It is detrimental to actual scum hunting and I believe it will continue to be detrimental so long as Titus is allowed to keep posting.

[Josh_B]

Oh, and I forgot to mention what a faction confirmation would do in favor and against Displaced and Vezok, my previous FoS's for MUVA. If Titus is MUVA, are they both off the table? Is Titus telling the truth that he's the last MUVA, and then we move on to the remaining DC's while a remaining MUVA goes free to endgame?

My mind is exploding.

[Josh_B]

maybe you should learn that cabd is 100% town


now try again

you see what I'm saying? This whole convo is making players seem scummy that aren't, and possibly making players not seem scummy that are.

[Josh_B]

no, we have moderator confirmation that cabd is 100% town.

there is no debate.

not work this read into your reads and try re-initializing

OK. good. I seem to have missed that part while I was absent, between the back to back weekend drills, my laptop breaking, going on vacation, and the site being down, I'll have to actually read the parts that I missed.
I can sum up my points in this post-
Titus is scum. Let's lynch him. Cabd's leash plan is stupid. I want the mod confirmation on Titus's faction alignment.

[Josh_B]

@pidgey

did you vote?

Fencesitters, What are you waiting for?

[Josh_B]

@Titus

. What do you think about shooting Displaced?
He's been a suspect to me ever since the Ruflig/SqG flips.

[Josh_B]

VOTE: AJ

come on Mala. Really? Explain this in your own words.

[Josh_B]

Titus, my offsite experience says that redirectors/bus drivers aren't bastard, but that is in relation to most towns having a PR. With all of the VT's that mafiascum has to offer, I'd probably consider it bastard in most MS.net games. Because you are probably going to be redirecting nothing to do nothing. As a mod, I wouldn't want to waste the time looking at useless PM's.

[Josh_B]

Finally. I feel like I just drank pepto bismol right now. Relief.

[Josh_B]

There are at least 2 more scum right? and we've been talking about possible 3 more, so what do you mean MS?

[Josh_B]

Is this game that bad chandra?

[Josh_B]

I saw divergent two days ago. There was a lot of action a few feel good scenes, but the story was kind of meh. I wish I would have read the book first. Now I'll probably read the book, and be mad that it takes so long to get to the good parts, which I'm sure aren't in the book.
It's easier to sit through a movie and be mad at it, then it is to get through a book when you already know the ending.

That's not what we were actually talking about, was it? LOL!

[Josh_B]

The story of catching fire is better explained in the movie than hunger games was. The hunger games movie was a bunch of visualized cut scenes from the book without the connecting flow that it should have had.

[Josh_B]

Hooray, I'm not dead again. Kind of makes me question my judgment since I keep wanting to lynch Displaced and have had a hard time deciding on AuntJ.

[Josh_B]

What even is the case on displaced?

Squirrel Girl said that Pidgey was awesome at scum hunting. Rufflig wanted to vote KidA(I think it was KidA, that was a long time ago) for lurking but not displaced.

[Josh_B]

Actually, I'm willing to take responsibility for this.

VOTE: displaced

[Josh_B]

BulbaFenix pushed the lynch on Ruflig. So there's that.

[Josh_B]

displaced 60% of my vote on you is based on the actions of two known scum, you know that right?
How do you feel about not being on the Titus wagon?
It could be easy for me to consider Mozamis, but let's face it, you've been on his wagon since the beginning, and you were trying to defend Ruflig, when you were doing it. If Ruflig and SqG are still watching this game, they are either shouting with joy, or screaming with disappointment. Regardless, I want to hear their response to this lynch in endgame. Which do you think it is?

[Josh_B]

I had 1 kill left!

Could have shot Titus, and kept everyone from white knighting on his lynch.

[Josh_B]

Also, displaced, I know that I've been really hard on you this game, and made a lot of jokes towards you, and you've played like a champ, but you really haven't responded to any of them. If you had written the same letter to me that I wrote to you, I'm pretty sure I would have thrown the "never OMGUS as scum" rule out the window and started making a case, for bussing, or something that indicated we were of the same alignment. I hope we can play in future games together, no hard feelings. Unless they're against SqG and Rufflig, they caused this lynch to happen at some point in the game.

[Josh_B]

This is the slowest quick wagon that I've ever seen. Is it because people don't want to move so quickly back into night phase, or are we waiting on some others to post?
I'm going to pause my vote for right now because I want to talk about Displaced's claim. And see if we get some comparisons on this. One thing I want to mention about Displaced is that he has completely avoided any discussion about Ruflig and SqG. Is this the time to talk about claims, because I really think we should wait a day, but this game seems to be stalled.
This maybe silly, but I want to have a discussion about having the discussion first before we actually have the discussion.
UNVOTE:
Magik, seems legit, but this is the time when I expect some claims to be fake. A lot of Xmen have turned up dead, so it makes sense for a fake claim to follow the claims, unfortunately as realistic as magik could be in this game, she isn't exactly a member of the old guard so to speak.
This is a question to everyone, feel free to jump in at any time.

[Josh_B]

claiming

[Josh_B]

I'm not opposed to the possibility that Vezok is scum. If displaced is scum and there's still a NK from MUVA, we'll know what we're dealing with as far as game set up goes. But right now, the main possibility is that we're dealing with 3x3 scum, but there's still the chance that one team has 4. If MUVA is 4, then DC is three, but one of pidgey's earlier posts pretty much ruled out the possibility of 4x4.

[Josh_B]

You say Nero could be scum on your wagon yet they are not one of the options on your list of scum picks. That is confusing.

That's not confusing, That's a slip.

[Josh_B]

See guys, this is helpful infromation from Displaced. Mala now has a town read. Remember that thing that I said that I have trouble with as scum. -Remembering what I said earlier in the game. Connecting lies together is impossible.
But, Displaced, I do have to say, you are a champ, and I'm even more interested in seeing you get lynched now than I ever was.

Can someone put a monitor on the people not voting/not commenting but being active in other areas. This lynch should be obvious now for 13/1/1 town. Heck, I think it would be easy for an 11/2/2 town to figure out.

Thanks for confirming me as town though. Speaking of that, I'm going to want to talk to MUVA about the NK on Pidgey. Seriously, WHY?

[Josh_B]

Hmmn. You make a good point, ZZZX is a serious candidate for scum. But with the quotes you put out, more likely DC scum from where I'm sitting.
Scum standard would indicate that SqG is setting herself up to lynch AuntJ if the town agrees, and a scum flip on AuntJ could be a good indication of why SqG was the target night one.
Post 550 could be a clear on Vezok, if ZZZX is MUVA. Otherwise it just seems like scum fishing for a reason to sheep without actually doing the work.

Who replaced USB? (taking a long time to post this because I'm figuring it out)Rach, I think. Yeah, Rachmarie. That slot has been shady this whole game, but we have a clear on it, so Bazinga!

This is good stuff. I like seeing your spin on this and I don't mind sharing mine. But it's not information that people don't already know. At least I don't think it is.

[Josh_B]

Oh, and I forgot. Ruflig was setting me up for a lynch, because I thought UFN was scum. But we have a clear on Cab-Dee, I mean Cabudah now, don't we. So that's obvious what he was trying to do.

[Josh_B]

ZZZX, you're PbPa was pretty gnarly. Your reads have been really sketchy. I'm totally down with lynching you and your erratic anger. One person puts a vote on you, and you self vote? WTF? Plus everyone knows that you haven't been lurking the "whole" game, especially in comparison to your accuser. That PbPa was really extensive. HOrrible, misleading, and a lie, but extensive.

I'm going to need your claim now.

[Josh_B]

Scum standard would indicate that SqG is setting herself up to lynch AuntJ if the town agrees, and a scum flip on AuntJ could be a good indication of why SqG was the target night one.

A problem with this logic, deary, is that if Squirly was setting herself up to lynch me...that would mean I would not be her scumbuddy. Therefore, were I to be scum, it would be with DC. However, if you take a look at my interactions with Tussy, it is abundantly clear that we were not on a team. Thus, lynching me will tell you nothing. (Especially since I will die soon enough. In particular, the faction that picked off pidgey is likely to shoot at someone such as myself. I will not be living long. A lynch on myself is a waste of time that will reveal nothing we do not already know.)

Is it abundantly clear? I mean your first reaction was to defend him. Like you did Viomi. And from your interactions with Viomi, it seriously appears that you are aligned with her. Earlier vote counts and read lists indicate a similar mindset.

Fuck all four of the flipped scum for not actually posting a reads list we can mine. Totally debating PLing the rest of the players yet to give a list of reads that are not confirmed town~

I thank you for the reminder that I myself require an updated one. I should even be able to separate off of factions at this stage.

Let's see how that goes...

...Well this is both incredibly stupid and yet incredibly amusing AT THE SAME TIME~

Indeed. Beasty, bless his heart, is sweet aside from the chance of a serial killer.

A serial Killer? with no NightKills and obviously not the dayvig. WTF are you talking about? This is Shitty WIFOM that no one is going to believe. Actually it's not even WIFOM it's a blatent misrep of the game. Let me tell you, I have some crackpot theories at times, usually early in D1 when I don't know any better. But to make such a statement at this time, you are off your rocker. And I'm calling Life Alert.

As to my wagon, scum can only be in [Moz/Nero] with 85/15 saying it's Moz. Nero had a strong first couple of days and is a town read on the back of that despite fading recently. Moz has avoided taking hard stances in the game, mainly interested in disapproving of wagons from the sidelines and hasnt really pushed any of his own ideas. (Im not sure if he has even had an original suspicion of his own)

I am mostly of this opinion, however, reversing Mozzy and Nero, with an outside chance of Joshy. (This is only a very remote chance and mainly me clinging to the hopes I was not entirely wrong on everything D2.) I am also getting paranoid about Vezzy's later addition to the wagon.

Though I understand the basis for a case against you, this wagon feels

off

. Tussy's slot had not only condemning interactions, but also her own play and a guilty result. The case against you is mainly on weaker interactions, and vaguely goes against what I am observing from your play. Yet in spite of this difference, the wagons have both formed with an approximately equal ease. Though I can see you flipping sour, I do not believe you to be scum.

Do you know what you just said there? How do differentiate Sour, from Scum?

It is on that note that I should point out I do not think the mozzy wagon is going to give us what we desire, and pursuing it over alternative options will be an error.

Vote: Nero Cain.

I am not sure about this lynch, but I feel the option is worth exploring.

Yeah, I don't buy this. Whatever. See you in end game. [/quote]

I want to say right now, that I fully support anyone that wants to lynch AuntJ.

[Josh_B]

I'm still waiting on ZZZX.

[Josh_B]

If it wasn't for the

FACT

that

I was so ignorant about the site mechanics, and game mechanics when I started this game two months ago

, I would almost FoS myself as being part of the DC team.

But,

My original reason for voting Rufflig is because I thought he was scum with Squirrel, and he was. I had some suspicions of Viomi, but when it came time for the wagon, I was hesitant. The site went down and I was gone for a while even after the site came back up.

But

I was FoSing Umbrage as being scum

from the beginning

, and I was right about that too.
Because I was sooo derpy about the site mechanics, it is absolutely impossible for me to have been scum; therefore all people who are continuing to FoS me are suspect. AuntJ even more so now that Umbrage has flipped, because her orginal FoS was that I wasn't hunting for both teams. I like the link that PerV put up. This game has been going on for a long time, but in this game we are the same alignment from the beginning to the end. Once town, always town.

A huge FoS on AuntJ and ZZZX for their reads. I'm glad I backed off of Displaced a little bit, but I still want to lynch him everytime I ISO Ruflig and SqG.
I keep going back to the fact that SqG was saying that Pidgey hit scum in his RVS vote. But then called Displaced town, and then added him to her scum reads.
And that Ruflig wanted to vote KidA, but then wouldn't vote Displaced for the same reasoning that he used on KidA.

So,
1. Ruflig and SqG did a really, really good job of creating a post-mortem mislynch.
OR
2. The both suck, and outed a member of their team.

I believe the latter. So, before I start going off of what has been said about Moz, and NeroCain, I'd like to see the official Flip on Displaced.CTRL+F in Ruflig's ISO shows that he mentions Displaced 73 times in his 62 posts. I believe that this post by Ruflig is particularly damning.

@pidgey:
First:
Unless you are using a strange meaning for throwing dirt - the phrase means to slander or vilify. If you feel displaced was throwing dirt then I will repeat my earlier question. "Was displaced throwing dirt on mozamis or mozamis' read?" Alternatively, could you explain how displaced performed such an action?

Second:
Making a point without committing to a read. Why can't displaced disagree with something (or someone) without finding it scummy? I found displaced's comment neutral. Why is a neutral comment scummy? Or maybe you do find that comment not neutral. What is non-neutral about it?

Third and at the risk of being a prick:

Could you tell me why you singled out displaced? I'm quite sure others have committed the same offense that you have attributed to displaced. Take this fellow for instance:

Umbrage- Im not caling you scum because at the moment i really dont have any real read on you, and no reason to call you scum. I do hwever called your read on me shit (yeah only that single read on me)

That is nearly the exact same offense that displaced committed is it not? There are more examples present from other players.


Fourth: Why does displaced's previously vote for Aronis (without comment) undermine your case on displaced?

Pidgey's vote on Displaced received WAY more attention than it was worth. And the defense of Displaced seems horribly over dramatic. Heck, I think nearly all of the first half of the game was over this.
Also, I don't think Moz is MUVA, because SqG was all like...

Rufflig looks town.

I feel like this begs explanation. I don't think he's done anything indicative of alignment. What am I overlooking?

His early posts, particularly this one:

It was a reference to the show called "The Awesomes" (catch it on Hulu - it's quite good), Aronis. The main character of which is Professor Doctor Jeremy "Prock"

Awesome

.

I must bow to Squirrel Girl's superior knowledge of comic book minutiae.

all felt quite relaxed and "bantery". Doesn't seem at all nervous or forced.

I was the one bantering with him - did my banter seem nervous and/or forced?

Vote: Mozamis

If I'm right then Ruffling is probably obv. town also.

I don't think she would have been bussing Moz over a town read on Rufflig that she would claim would White Knight Rufflig. Which is the only way that Moz could be on her team, considering that Ruflig was on her team. I can't completely negate him from being DC though, that twilight vote on Titus, gives me a lot of WIFOM to think about. And, This doesn't have the feel of bussing. And if it is, GG Viomi/Moz GG. I suppose it's worth looking into, because every flipped scum has a town read from Mozamis.

And I'll put my vote back now.
VOTE: Displaced

p-edit. A wall or not a wall, phuckit it's already walled. No helpful reduction on this.

[Josh_B]

Black is MUVA, Red is DC. Chandra made it up.

[Josh_B]

WTF? Why do keep calling my name? Who are you?

[Josh_B]

Hmmn. You make a good point, ZZZX is a serious candidate for scum. But with the quotes you put out, more likely DC scum from where I'm sitting.
Scum standard would indicate that SqG is setting herself up to lynch AuntJ if the town agrees, and a scum flip on AuntJ could be a good indication of why SqG was the target night one.
Post 550 could be a clear on Vezok, if ZZZX is MUVA. Otherwise it just seems like scum fishing for a reason to sheep without actually doing the work.

Who replaced USB? (taking a long time to post this because I'm figuring it out)Rach, I think. Yeah, Rachmarie. That slot has been shady this whole game, but we have a clear on it, so Bazinga!

This is good stuff. I like seeing your spin on this and I don't mind sharing mine. But it's not information that people don't already know. At least I don't think it is.

Rach, Are you talking about this post? I was saying that Displaced is just fishing for scum reads. As Pidgey put it, "trying to throw some dirt and see if it sticks."

[Josh_B]

I still don't get it. I never called you DC(red), or MUVA(black). Truthfully, I haven't had any interactions with you, or USB this whole game that I know of. Except one time earlier when you said my name, when you meant Mozamis.
You asked for people to start using Red and Black as the names for scum, but the true names are Marvel Universe Villain Alliance (MUVA) which we referred to as Black before we knew the names, and DC Universe Alliance was Red scum before the flip on Viomi, now it's just called DC, or DC scum.

I posted 3429 because you still seem confused by the synonyms. I don't see how that was accusatory. I was hoping that it would beneficial to your understanding of the game. Now, I'm wondering how you made the leap that a definition of terms could mean that I called you red scum?

[Josh_B]

What were you saying that Chandra made up then? I thought that was in response to dude saying chandra had cleared me from being red scum Or do you think Chandra is not the red cop? I am confused?

moving along

mala could you expand on that? cause I still think beast is scum, just not sure if red or black.

Chandra decided which one to call what. Obviously by this point MUVA had already been named, and there was some discussion about which to call what. It just grew from here.

For the record my working theory ATM is 5/1/19

Counterpoint: Other Jason games refer to one scumgroup as simply "scum" and their color appears to always be red.

I think I felt the need to re iterate that I have been going off of this post as reasoning to call the teams red and black because of Post 1891.

[Josh_B]

Hold on while I ISO before answering this statement. I'm kind of hard headed sometimes.

[Josh_B]

I don't think it matters what her role is. I think she is town. Originally I thought she was red scum with Umbrage, but when I ISO Umbrage, I see a lot of "I'm going to turn on you statements." And the fact that she was one of the early leaders on both the Viomi and Titus wagon. I think she might have been right for most of this game, I believe her and I believe you, but you are going to have to convince me (and others) if you don't think we should Vote Displaced. I have a case on him too.
Can you support it?

[Josh_B]

Vezok, what do you want to do?

[Josh_B]

Not Voting

mozamis,
Aunt Jemina,
beastcharizard

Cabd

displaced

I like this list for chasing down scum.

[Josh_B]

I don;'t have a town mindset because Im not willing to mindlessly sheep you?

Obviously you aren't going to sheep someone who has you as a lynch target, That's just ridiculous. But we are going to take a look at who you would sheep this game in a second.

Im trying to solve the game myself without the benefit of a PR to help me and I am confused about you saying your clears are confirmed because that doesnt match with what Im expecting from what Im assuming your role is. This is a direct result of you talking in whispers about your role. Not claiming fully is your prerogative but that's what's causing my "mindset issues"

The rufflig interaction in particular should indicate to you this is not buddy/buddy interaction, it's too blatant; I can forgive Josh for buying into this but you have the experience to know better. I would hope at least my lynch would cause a hard reset because at present you arent even entertaining the possibility I could be town, despite objective evidence itt that I could be (To the extent you will not vote another scumread of yours over me)

I've been after you about this issue since D1. I called you out as being part of the triangle of suspicion. How can it be "too blatent" If you want to talk about "too blatent" remember SqG's statement "If Ruflig is Scum, then he has town defending him", and the one I shared earlier, loosely worded "If moz is scum, it proves Ruflig is town." So, don't you think we can expect the same type of behavior moving forward?

Sooo if it has to be me today so be it but tomorrow;

1. You dont get to be all Pontus Pilate about the town blood on your hands
2. You eat humble pie in a great big portion
3. Chandra gets to own you like a dog

Deal?

Displaced, Seriously I've been on your case since D1. And pressuring for your lynch this whole game. Why are you attacking BulbaFenix on your lynch? You are right, it is blatent Buddy/buddy. The same way it was between SqG and Ruflig, so let's take a look at your actions that support this theory that you are scum. Pause for incoming traffic...

[Josh_B]

I got bad news on Tues

I am now diabetic and been busy doing research and dealing with the changes I have to make to hopefully avoid being put on meds in 3 months.

I'm so sorry to hear about that. I hope everything goes well for you.

VOTE: AuntJ
She's been knowing about an SK for a while.

[Josh_B]

Can you guys lynch me so that I don't have to replace out? I've been playing this game since April, I would hate to see it not be a completed game. I'm going to AT starting tomorrow.

Mercy LYNCH

Or scum if you promise to NK me, I'll be ok with that too.

[Josh_B]

VOTE: JoshB

[Josh_B]

Actually, I think there's enough input that either Displaced or AuntJ can be lynched today, What do you guys think about that? Displaced did a really good job at pointing at other players (none of which were MUVA). Someone besides AuntJ knows why there has only been one Scum kill up to this point, or she's Scum. But we are going to need all the town players to get in here and talk about it.

[Josh_B]

Literally confirmed town:
Cabd
Chandra
Mala

Probably confirmed town:
Rach
ZZZX

The rest:
4 vezokpiraka- I have no real read here
5 Nero Cain- probably town
6 Aunt Jemina*- had better claim psychologist or something because otherwise I will probably want to lynch her
7 Josh_B*- probably town
11 PeregrineV- ???
22 beastcharizard- ???
25 displaced*- ???

^This sort of makes me want a massclaim from the remaining players?

I actually think now is a good time for Mass Claiming Characters. I'll go first or last, or in the middle, whichever is fine by me.
Cabd, just to get it started.

[Josh_B]

Someone besides AuntJ knows why there has only been one Scum kill up to this point, or she's Scum.

FoS: Josh_B

.
I get the distinct impression that you slipped it being you, deary. I do not know what source of kill has not appeared throughout the game. You, however, seem to be under the distinct impression that it was not the serial killer's, when no-killing as a serial killer is a viable strategy. (Not so much for a scumteam.) Do correct me if I am mistaken, but in my eyes "only been one scum kill up to this point" strongly implies to me that you think that one scumteam is the disappeared, and that mozzy was the executed. What leads you to that conclusion?

This would be a vote if not for the fact that I am quite aware of players being able to make unusual deductions. So explain yourself while you're still here.

At the point that mentioned earlier in the game when we discussed, I was thinking of the possibility of an informed town minority. I was wondering if there was a possibility of neighborizors or Masons or some such team. I had a lot of people on my scum list, that I wasn't sure if they all belonged. Perhaps you recall that I had both Chandra, and Cabd hydra on my list of possible scums, I had Yates and ZZZX on my list then too. Too many scums, not enough likely slots! Originally I FoS'd you when you started saying that PerV, BulbaFenix, and me were on the same scum team together. I tried to reach out to you, I tried to defend myself, I even sent you a sweet lovely song for you to think about. None of it worked. I even offered you a town read, because you apologized for you bad D2 reads. You still just kept fosing me, and fosing me, and fosing me, and each time, it was a little more scummier, and little more scummier. Even after all that I've done, you keep FoSing me. Nobody has copped me that I know of, but is there really a need for me to be copped for you to see my alignment. I'm not even sure why I'm still on the unconfirmed list.

I think Moz may have been not killing. But if he wasn't killing, what led you to FoS an SK over and over agian. This whole game you've been saying that certain people might be an SK. Heck you even said that Rufflig might be an SK. Beast, you called him a possible SK, you called vinny a possible SK. There was no third kill, the whole game. Two nights, so far, there has only been one Kill. At some point up to this, you have to let it go, everyone can't be an SK. Was there something besides mod meta that kept you pressing for a possible SK? I honestly don't see any indication of an SK in the DP any where. It was kind of a shock to me to see Moz flip that way, and no I wasn't on it. There seemed to be multiple FoS's on him from most of the flipped scum. I said there were associative tells early on in the game. some of them were true, some of them weren't. Besides, you had me as scum before for only hunting one team, which is stupid, because you pointed out where I was inventing multiple teams, and I FoS'd several people as being on each of the teams, even shared it with the DP to see where I was wrong. Have I not been on enough lynches? What is it this time? How am I still scum to you and why are you holding on to this so hard?

Anybody. If I'm in your maybe/maybe not scum pile tell me, and if you think I'm definitely town, tell AuntJ with your vote. She has been holding on to bad reads for far too long.

VOTE: auntJ

[Josh_B]

THREE MONTHS LATER. Finally!! Thanks Vezok for winning the game. I'll admit that there were times that I thought you might be scum, but it never fit into the bigger picture.
And I agree with you about calling AJ scum for a long time with no one listening.

SqG and Rufflig, you both buddied Displaced pretty hard. How do you feel about him being on the table so long after your deaths?

Displaced, Good Game. I know I was hard on you to get you lynched, I really wanted to see your flip. You really helped by calling out Mozamis, I just wish that you would have been more active all along, instead of only during crunch times.

At Bulbazak, If we ever play another game together and we have different reads, I know to automatically lynch you. It was really nice playing with you. If you are ever in Colorado, I'd like to go out for coffee or beers. Fenix, let's play together again soon.

ZZZX, I'm coming around, I'm glad we played that College game in the middle of this, it helped me understand your style better.

SKOT- Always a pleasure.

Beast, if AJ hadn't been scum, I would have lynched you next(if I could have) You were very lurky and had very little content. Did you post any sort of reads list in this game at all?

Moz, Good game.

PerV: I enjoyed the back and forth that we had. The game seemed a lot easier after that.

And ThAd, we can talk about lynching people you can't trust now.

AuntJ, excellent! I kept you in my suspicions all game, but it seemed like there would never be enough support to lynch you. In the final DP, what led you to back off of lynching my slot? I kind of thought that was a game changer.

[Josh_B]

AJ- You had to know that the continuously pushing an SK was ludicrous, but the Godfather/ninja was outrageous.

I would like to hear some other people's thoughts on that as well. especially the people that didn't lynch AJ.

[Josh_B]

Where do I go to suggest that AJ get's an award for this game?

[Josh_B]

Do you have to win as scum, or is it enough that you drag everyone else around by their noses for months on end?