Advance Wars UPick!--Game Over..?

[Bookitty]

Ffery: Did you manage to get CABD sorted? If so, what is your read on him?

[Bookitty]

I was looking at the deadline in Nati's last post, Post 2179, and noticed that Wgeurts's vote on Neotank Mk2 is counting in the vote count.

You can consider my vote functionally still on Lynx-slot, but trying this:

VOTE: Neotank Mk2

[Bookitty]

Could someone who has played the game and understands the flavour please tell me if there's a compelling reason to kill the Tank before it does something bad, like explodes or something?

Thank you.

[Bookitty]

Okay.

VOTE: lynxkuroneko

InB4 someone says he's conftown for his replace-out. :p

[Bookitty]

Sure thing. Anyone specific, or want the whole thing at once?

[Bookitty]

Whatever you feel like sharing. At this point in time I'm most interested in developing stronger reads on Cheetory, lynx, BPC, and konowa. Also interested in your albert read for obvious reasons.

Cheetory seems town to me. I gots no meta and there doesn't seem to be much, but he's been really proactive in a position where he could have stayed under the radar and just claimed he was reading the game. Why stick your neck out if you don't have to?

Lynx -- I'm voting him. I think he's probably scum based on a lot of nothing this game and the notion I have that his posts were primarily "Gotta say something now or I'll get prodded and get attention."

I still think BipolarChemist is town for now. It's not a really strong read.

I have a town read on Konowa, but he needs to post more to firm that up.

ABR... okay, I have a couple of issues here.

1. I'm sure there's some element of OMGUS in my suspicions of him.
2. STD seemed to be using ABR's suspicions as a springboard to vote me, then unvote, and vote me again. If ABR is town and STD is scum, that makes sense. If both were scum, though, it wouldn't. So I guess I could go for an ABR lynch, but if he flipped town, it still wouldn't tell me much about STD. If he flips scum, I guess I don't think STD is scum...?

[Bookitty]

I don't like that neither STD nor ABR have responded to my earlier questions. ABR obviously has an excuse given his real-life situation (-hugs- to ABR) but STD still needs to answer.

[Bookitty]

Boo. I have townreads on both Albert and STD. Your propensity to scumread those who suspect you is mildly amusing.

I admitted to as much. Are you saying you're not subject to OMGUS at all?

You won't even give your reads on people, so your condescending attitude is unearned. At least I have the guts to put my reads out there for evaluation and comment. You dole yours out like they're the Crown Jewels.

[Bookitty]

And you're just selectively griping over my refusal to give a reads list even though I don't see you bugging some other players about it.

Those other players didn't halfway offer to post a reads list and then act like a smug jerk once they were conftown.

Shockingly, they didn't irritate me nearly so much as you are by using your conftown position to sit back and snipe at people who are actually interested in playing the game. You could help us, but clearly that's not a priority for you.

[Bookitty]

Pretty sure I was acting like a smug jerk before the confton status.

It's very difficult for me to stay angry with you when you post something like this.

Why is ABR so certainly town in your eyes, please?

[Bookitty]

Orcinus, talk to me about why you think I'm suspicious. There are some questions I won't answer because (neighbourhood) but I will be open as I can.

Also, hi, HI

[Bookitty]

I'm going to be V/LA until the end of the week; I'll try to check in, but sadly, I'm cooking for Thanksgiving and I'm not going to have tons of time.

Ceph, do you want my help on the ABR lynch? I'll park my vote there if you think it's going to be needed.

[Bookitty]

Check in tonight or tomorrow morning please please pleas

Tomorrow morning yes.
Not sure about tonight yet.

[Bookitty]

Thank you, Nati!

[Bookitty]

Welcome to the game, DS

UNVOTE: because we have some breathing room now.

[Bookitty]

Bookitty, can you summarize why you were voting Lynx? Also, who would you like to see lynched today?

Post 1308 didn't sit well with me. I was voting Mara at the time and it looked opportunistic. I didn't like Post 1630 because it seemed pretty dismissive of the suspicions raised by 1308. He wasn't my top scumread (I still disliked wgeurts more and was STILL on the mara wagon at that point, if I recall correctly). Ultimately, I voted him as the most likely scum of the viable wagons at that point.

If I could lynch anyone right now, it would still be Mara to remove that question mark. However, I don't think it's fair to HI to lynch him right after he enters the game and it's always possible I'm wrong about that slot. I have similar issues about Lynx and his replacement.

For a practical choice, I guess I would sheep Ceph because I trust his towniness and his judgment the most so far this game. I'm not confident in my own scumreads, but they are still SMP, MafiaSSK, wgeurts and the ones mentioned above. I don't have any read on Saki due to lack of posting.

Sorry for the non-answer on the last one. If I had a definite preference there, I would already be making it known.

[Bookitty]

Oh, for full disclosure, I have been responsible for Saki's mislynch as a lurker in another game (I was town too). This is probably colouring my read on him here. I'm sort of taking my natural read on him (I usually read lurkers as scummy) and reversing it because I don't trust my reads on him anymore, if that makes any sense.

[Bookitty]

Sadly, most of the players who would yield strong associative information are also townreads for me. The fact that it's almost 100 pages in probably has a lot to do with why the wagons aren't filled with fireworks and candy.

[Bookitty]

I don't think Ffery is scum.

I don't understand this part of your post, Honey bee:

If var flipped scum I couldn't see you putting a fair amount of trust in another persons read in order to bus someone.

What do you mean by this, precisely? It's hypothetical, since Var flipped town, but I don't see how trust would enter into it either way.

[Bookitty]

I think external factors HAVE to be considered when looking at interactions/reads. You're looking at external factors to clear Mara-slot, Orci, and both ABR and Fferyllt have described FAR more stressful situations that could detract from their ability to play the game at their best. I disagree with you that Fferyllt is scum; she's acted more like overwhelmed town all through this.

I get that she'd be a more exciting lynch but she's not a lynch I want to see today and not one I'll support. I'd go for Cabd or STD first, personally, if I was going to go with my outside possibility scumreads.

The reason SMP and Lynx are so popular as lynch targets is because they are WIDELY scumread. That may make them safe, but it doesn't make them town.

[Bookitty]

So I would like my neighborhood scumread gone first, but I can't get a case on them yet.

What has prevented you from making a case without revealing that they are in your neighbourhood?

[Bookitty]

I'd like the rest of the neighborhood to help out with verifying/building the case

Why haven't you presented your own case here? Why are you relying on your neighbourhood to do the heavy lifting for you?

If you have a scumread, shouldn't you be pursuing it more aggressively? Especially since it seems to be your only strong scumread?

[Bookitty]

We have about two days and a half now, so we have a bit of time thanks to Nati who awesomely extended the deadline.

[Bookitty]

I would like to hear from Flubber on this.

Also, SMP, the person you're not naming who was accused by Flubber is not you, right? It's someone else, correct?

[Bookitty]

SMP wrote:Also, in a large game, the players who post a ton without actually saying anything or clog up the thread do more damage than in a 13 player game.

Why is Flubber the best example of this?

I have a question for you on this, Cheetory. The quote you pulled in this post is in Post 1408, quite a significant ways back. I did an ISO of you and SMP here. He hadn't mentioned Flubber as the best example of this. Why did you mean by this?

[Bookitty]

Er, WHAT did you mean by this?

[Bookitty]

Cheetory pushed me for answers to his questions and I think he was scumreading me at the time. I don't understand the different treatment of other people in that regard, though. I think he asked Cabd questions that weren't answered either.

@Orci: I wasn't questioning you, in case it wasn't clear. I was correcting a typo in my post where I said WHY instead of WHAT.

[Bookitty]

@Cheetory:

Okay, in your Post 2570, SMP didn't say that. I REMEMBER that because Orcinus said it to ME after I did a whole bunch of work on meta-ing SMP. So that doesn't follow either.

[Bookitty]

DedicatedScribe replaces LynxKuroneko.

Fix that, guys.

I'm okay with this, especially given the one post from the replacement:

This game is pretty elaborate.

VOTE: DedicatedScribe

[Bookitty]

Cool, then. I'm out until tomorrow morning

[Bookitty]

I'm checking in, and yeah, it's worth a try.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ABR

[Bookitty]

Heee, bear vendor.

Notsci will definitely be protected tonight.

[Bookitty]

Can you feel the love?

[Bookitty]

I want to point out that Ceph SAID he didn't trust ABR with a vig shot pages ago, I was thinking I agreed with that, and he was RIGHT.

[Bookitty]

Depends on how many kills can be blocked of those that might be out there, I guess.

[Bookitty]

Okay. My vote is on ABR, we have a bunch of conftown plus more obvtown. I'm going to go sleep.

[Bookitty]

Are we role-claiming or just neighbourhood claiming?

Also, is it allowed to cut and paste something from a neighbourhood here, or do I have to paraphrase it? (Not quote in either case.) I think someone else did it and didn't get yelled at, right?

[Bookitty]

Orcinus attacks Cheetory for easy logic on Lynx in Post 2552.

Post 1589 by Mafia SSK.

Post 1846 by STD.

Post 2388 by MafiaSSK. Claims Lynx is a policy lynch. Votes SMP.

Also, on Lynx, I’ve mostly been getting a he’s too busy to make a legit post read on him. What bothered you about that post in particular?

About Lynx: I've been getting that noob feeling I'm getting which I often end up interpreting as scummy so I'm starting to have hesitance about him. My meta search of him didn't help, as I don't get a similar feeling to either of his completed games (I feel like he has a complete lack of focus that his other games didn't have). I'm trying to make of what his reactions are, but I haven't found what I'm looking for in his meta. I still don't like the way his suspicions have been going, and I'm getting skeptical that joining bandwagons for stars is fine and dandy.

In our neighbourhood last night I posted these things as examples of soft defenses by various people. It's possible I missed some. But there's no real point in keeping this info private now that the main thread is open.

[Bookitty]

Okay, I have a stupid question.

Don't CO Powers expend stars when they're used?

[Bookitty]

Okay. ABR claimed at the start of Yesterday that he was a double voter now. Which seems to ME to be something that would be a CO power because it's pretty powerful.

Then at the end of the day he said he was a vig now that he would have four stars. So he didn't spend anything to suddenly become a double voter.

I played with ABR quite a bit before my years-long hiatus. I also played with him recently. I don't know why he'd deliberately provoke or threaten people as town, but I would say that other elements of his play are not that far out of line for my town-meta for him.

[Bookitty]

Unless otherwise stated, a COP is an active ability and cannot be activated in conjunction with other abilities.

This?

[Bookitty]

I do see that it spends them when you use them. Thanks, Brian.

[Bookitty]

<3 ABR.

[Bookitty]

i don't know i would've put at least 5 people above cephrir on the NK priority list

Who, exactly? And why?

I think Ceph was pretty universally townread.

[Bookitty]

3068 also is dependent on scum not knowing that cephrir was a dayvig

Did you know he was?

Was it discussed in your neighbourhood?

[Bookitty]

I want claims in that order.

Any special reason why?

Also, I still await an answer as to what exactly we're claiming. Just neighbourhoods, neighbourhoods and flavour roles or all information about our roles?

I don't like the last one, for the record. I'm okay with the other two.

[Bookitty]

He's trying to pressure brian to claim, which is a terrible idea.

To role claim?

Why should you guys go first anyway? I mean, we have three more or less conftown and some strong townreads, why does he think you need to go first? (You=Brian/Cabd)?

[Bookitty]

Yellow Comet consists of myself (Grimm) and Bookitty (Sonja).

^^

Also, congrats, HI

[Bookitty]

@Nati, if the question I asked via PM is not permissible, could you please just reply with no text so I know not to ask it again?

[Bookitty]

People I am currently willing to lynch are, in order:

MafiaSSK
Flubber
Saki
wgeurts
ABR
STD
BipolarChemist


The three in the middle {Saki, wgeurts and ABR} are more fluid for me and vary depending on what thing I'm thinking about at the time. ABR is definitely the most dangerous of those three, though I'm not sure he's the most likely to be scum.

VOTE: MafiaSSK

I think Orcinus and Ffery are town. I do think there is likely to be scum in a six-person neighbourhood (which this was). I think MafiaSSK is more likely to be scum than ABR.

For the record, I trust Konowa and I think our neighbourhood is town.

EBWOP: @STD: Could I get a reads list from you? No need to include conftown or Bolt Guard imo.

[Bookitty]

What is especially town for you about Saki, please?

What's up that you're so out of it?

[Bookitty]

No, I'm asking why you have Saki as one of your top town.

Did you even read my Post 3224, STD?

[Bookitty]

I have Bolt Guard as town. I trust Ceph's judgment. So I guess that constitutes the same tier.

[Bookitty]

Okay, so you're basing a townread of Saki on the fact that he defended town who looked really guilty and that he read universally townread people as town and that's it?

I understand that real-life things > Mafia. But the things you are posting are not making sense to me. I literally just said what I thought of MafiaSSK and of ABR. You then immediately asked me about those reads. Why?

EBWOP: Okay, I see the answer to the second part. Fair enough, I guess. First part is still weird.

[Bookitty]

@notscience: Are you really sure Flubber is scum from neighbourhood interactions?

[Bookitty]

STD: Ceph believed that both Orci and Ffery were town. Ceph was not only towniness personified, he was also nightkilled and flipped town.

Why aren't you trusting his judgment, given that you admit to not following the game? Why not just sheep the opinion of someone you KNOW is town?

[Bookitty]

@STD: Here's my issue.

You keep throwing shade at me without ever supporting it. Gut is impossible to defend against and it's kind of hard for me to think you are sincere about it at this point.

You aren't able to devote enough time to the game; I get that, for sure. But you insist that you don't want to sheep people, even conftown people. You want to back it up with your own knowledge. Fair enough, but you're not DOING that. It's like you're just showing up to vote for star points and, if you are town, how would you even know how to use them for town benefit given that you aren't willing to sheep others and you're not able to find time to engage with the game so you would have your own knowledge to back things up with.

By way of analogy, you can't sit down on the ground and scream that you're lost in the wilderness and then refuse help from the forest ranger because you want to find your own way out. Either stand up and start trying to find your way out or follow the conftown.

[Bookitty]

Yes, and you're not the only one.

[Bookitty]

@Brian: That's true. But being conftown means that I don't have to worry about your motivations, look for the hidden agenda behind what you're saying and generally be paranoid about you. So it makes it easier to figure out if I agree -- I don't have to worry about being led down the primrose path by some sweet talker

[Bookitty]

I'm not saying to disregard their words. But sheeping someone just because they're confirmed is silly.

STD has said (more than once) that he has not had time to follow the game properly. He has only two scumreads right now. He complains vociferously when he's pressed for content. Yet he feels confident in voting for one of his two scumreads in what looks like yet again a bid for stars without providing content or reasoning.

If he's truly overwhelmed town, it would be better for him to sheep someone else than just to come in and jump on a wagon and wave goodbye and leave. Honest sheeping is better than "I'm too busy to provide content, but here, have a vote on the leading wagon. Bye, y'all!"

STD, if you want to figure out the game, the thread is right here. No one is stopping you.

[Bookitty]

This is what I'm saying I want to figure out if I agree this is why I don't sheep people in general, I got to know for myself.

Then FIND OUT! No one is stopping you. Just stop saying that you don't have time to investigate for yourself but you sure aren't going to take someone else's word for it either. That's COMPLETELY useless.

[Bookitty]

I also naked vote a lot.

I'm also being a star whore, I've blatantly admitted this.

You realise that this along with having to basically force you to post content in this game makes you look like scum, right?

[Bookitty]

Notscience is Penny. Penny is the sample Role PM. Notscience has been confirmed both by proving his status as a Bear Vendor (hee, that still cracks me up) and by the fact that his role PM is the sample role PM.

[Bookitty]

@Saki: Read Post 3215. It's really helpful.

[Bookitty]

Brian: Between wgeurts and Save the Dragons, who do you think is more likely scum? Do you think they are both town?

Same question for CABD, please.

[Bookitty]

He's not going to claim because he doesn't have a case on me. He's just trying to deflect attention off of one of his scum buddies.

You are pretty confident in Flubber-scum and MafiaSSK-scum, then? Or am I misinterpreting this?

@Flubber: How would your flip prove SMP scum, please?

[Bookitty]

Okay. I'm going to go with this, then:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flubbernugget

[Bookitty]

Okay. I'm looking at Post 3215 for anyone who wants to check that.

Reads List by Neighbourhood:

I am sure Konowa is town. So I can rule out Yellow Comet as having scum.

I think it's unlikely (not impossible) that Bipolar Chemist is scum for neighbourhood balance reasons. That would essentially constitute a chat topic for scum that would exist parallel to whatever scum QT or PT they have.

Okay, looking at Otherworlders: I put Flubber well above SMP as likely scum. If there's scum in that neighbourhood, I am sure it's him.

I put SSK over Albert as scum despite ABR's anti-town shenanigans for the Black Hole neighbourhood.

Orange Star? I'm not so sure here, but I guess HI/Saki over Honey bee.

Actually: @Honey bee, if it were certain that one of Hostile Intent or Saki were scum, which would it be?

Bolt Guard is town.

Blue Moon; I could go either way between STD and wgeurts. Brian put wgeurts off the table for today, but that doesn't clear him for me.

[Bookitty]

I think Notscience and SMP can be trusted on their read of Flubber. I can also go for a MafiaSSK lynch.

Purging neighbourhoods isn't really effective anyway if people can spy. It's more a way to look at the game than a purging method, imo.

[Bookitty]

Is your konowa read discussable or no?

Well sure... it's not negotiable, if that's what you mean, though. I'm sure he's town. What do you want to discuss about it?

[Bookitty]

We discussed through most of Day One before I felt really sure about Konowa. We don't always agree, but the opinions I've shared have not floated to the top in this thread from anyone but Konowa and me. Because I trust him, I've bounced some of my reads off him and he's told me when I was being an idiot and when he thought I might be right.

I trust him.

[Bookitty]

Happy scumday, Orci <3 <3

[Bookitty]

I also don't know how people can just assume their neighborhood is all town. The lack of paranoia just baffles me.

I didn't assume that, if you mean me. I developed that read over time and interactions with Konowa. I don't think that Bolt Guard has scum in it either, and I am not even in that neighbourhood.

I don't understand Honey bee's read on her neighbourhood, though.

Honey bee: Why do you think Saki is town, please?

I find it difficult to empathize with a person who isn't even in danger of being lynched.

I don't know what you mean here.

[Bookitty]

This game has slowed down a lot. I'm going to move my vote to MafiaSSK, which puts him at L-2.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MafiaSSK

MafiaSSK, if you have anything to say, now's the time.

[Bookitty]

Also, Ffery, CABD, you should be there.

[Bookitty]

UNVOTE:

[Bookitty]

If ABR wasn't taking up two spots it would be easier to do this.

[Bookitty]

@Flubber: Your own neighbourhood thinks you're the most likely scum in it. That's not just SMP. So could you actually, I dunno, give some reads or say something that approaches content in this game?

[Bookitty]

Meh. Sorry, Ffery. I just found out I might not be around this evening. Do you think he's likely to claim before someone quickhammers, given everyone's need for stars?

[Bookitty]

He=MafiaSSK.

[Bookitty]

Okay. Since I'm going into meetings now and I won't be able to check back until this evening sometime after dinner, I'm going to move my vote to MafiaSSK. I was planning to try to wait for Cabd but I guess that's not going to happen

I prefer that people wait for MafiaSSK to claim before a hammer, but given his recent level of participation, I am not sure that's going to happen. I'm not even sure if a claim makes any difference in a game like this, to be honest.

People I wish were not on this wagon: ABR (for obvious reasons) and STD, who seems too busy to do anything but pop in and collect stars.

People I wish WERE on this wagon: Cabd. I think notscience said he didn't need stars and I would also be cool with Honey bee on the wagon, I think. Other than that, the people not voting MafiaSSK are under some amount of suspicion from me.

VOTE: MafiaSSK

L-1, I think.

@Honey bee: Okay.

[Bookitty]

Who roleblocked or redirected me?

Who was STD trying to lynch?

[Bookitty]

Unless there was another six-star CO power that put a role pm in the thread, I guess I was redirected onto Saki. I targeted Flubbernugget because Honey bee had some reason for not wanting to get rid of Saki and I was unwilling to post his role pm if he was useful town.

[Bookitty]

ABR outed the scum team while there was still a third party out there (STD), which meant that there was no clear path to victory for STD, a lyncher.

[Bookitty]

Why did Saki use his power if he was going to forfeit? Did he agree to forfeit before day start?

In other news, Konowa was the best neighbour ever. I was able to treat our chat as a masonry for all intents and purposes because he was so helpful and reliable. I can't say enough good things about him. Thanks, Konowa

[Bookitty]

I have to thank Nati; I haven't played Advance Wars and /inned for this game based on the playerlist. Nati chose my character for me and it worked out so well.

Thank you, Nati!

[Bookitty]

<3 ABR and STD I did in for that game, assuming there is room.

Actually, I thought everyone in this game was delightful. Would play with again and recommend to a friend!

[Bookitty]

I mainly joined this game because of a few names on the list that I knew and liked. I now have a BUNCH of names to add to my list of awesome players who make Mafia games fun

<3 you all.

[Bookitty]

<3 Hostile Intent

I want to say that playing scum with inactive partners is one of the most frustrating things in Mafia for me. I have serious empathy for ABR. It makes it harder in so many ways.

I also need to thank Orci. I am willing to do almost any amount of reading if I feel that it's going to be productive and heard. Orci gave me huge motivation to dig in and work in this game and, apart from one fit of horrified paranoia, I was able to read him as town all through. Cephrir really helped with that too. ABR's gambit about being a vig left Cephrir open for the nightkill, something that could have been truly awful for town if Ceph hadn't been so open in the main thread about his reads on Orci and Ffery.

I had never played a Nati game before nor one with such complex mechanics. I was nervous coming in to the game. I can really see why the scumteam targeted Konowa over and over -- he was a real threat to them both in ways they couldn't see and in ways they could.

Thank you, Nati, for designing and running this game. It was awesome fun!

[Bookitty]

I never played with you before this game, Ffery, and I'm a fan of your play. If you feel like you were phoning it in, just look at the activity overview at the bottom of this page and I think you'll feel much better.

[Bookitty]

I hope we get the chance to play together again under better circumstances, Varsoon. <3

[Bookitty]

No, it was over quite a while ago.

Sorry.