Mini 1625: Redemption (Game Over)

[GGG]

VOTE: naomi-tan

Already setting up the terrible player defence for all the mislynches she's going to be on.

[GGG]

What's a pedit?

[GGG]

Thanks droog

[GGG]

VOTE: crazypianist1116

Names too long. Townies have good short names.

[GGG]

So is it ok to ask each person why they voted for the person they did or does that brake the rules?

I like this approach. Even though the votes are "random" they aren't really. The reasons may be stupid but they do exist. So feel free to poke and prod if you feel their answers will give you info.

[GGG]

Already setting up the terrible player defence for all the mislynches she's going to be on.

Am I missing something in her post cause I didn't see it.

She says she is bad at mafia and gets defensive when attacked. By stating this upfront she predisposes the town to believe her later on when she is on 3 or 4 mis lynches in a row. However Naomi's response of how this info also helps the town makes it null unless she actually makes the argument later on.

[GGG]

This is whomps first game in this account 10 posts all votes. Most likely a pure troll than some kind of role. Going off the wiki no normal role explains his behaviour.

I don't think there is any value in voting him out today. Eventually he gets tired and gets mod replaced or smartens up and starts to play.

[GGG]

Also don't put anyone to L-1 if willow has his vote out there. From the looks of the Riddleton/droog thing it appears whomp tried to quickhammer him.

Pedit. Isn't that a non normal role?

[GGG]

I don't like the whomp wagon, essentially people are voting for him because he is an ass.

Crazy I notice you are voting for him because you want him lynched rather than you believe him to be scum. Do you and really anyone on the wagon feel he is actually scummy?

[GGG]

Crazy I notice you are voting for him because you want him lynched rather than you believe him to be scum. Do you and really anyone on the wagon feel he is actually scummy?

Um, if you want someone to be lynched, you think they're scum.

This should be the case but lots of time people will vote and lynch someone because they are anti-town rather than because they are scummy. The whomp wagon is an example of this hence the question to crazy of why did he want him lynched?

[GGG]

Lots of over-analyzation from whomp after droog says he will unvote only after whomp contributes. Anyways, (am I forcing this anyways, or am I being casual with my anyways? Anyways...) I'm not sure why other people's posts are not relevant, but whomp's wall post is. Relevant to what exactly? Were your random troll votes relevant, or does relevance only occur when you say so?

Anyways, I maintain my stance that RVS pressure wagons are mostly useless (pressure them into answering what exactly?), and anyways, that I highly dislike lurkers, despite whether it is in any way(s) original or not. Maybe you can read it again and dislike it more whomp. Anyways, I wonder why you dislike it so much? Are you planning on lurking anytime (or anyway) soon? I plan on not letting you FYI.

Crazy I notice you are voting for him because you want him lynched rather than you believe him to be scum. Do you and really anyone on the wagon feel he is actually scummy?

Um, if you want someone to be lynched, you think they're scum.

This should be the case but lots of time people will vote and lynch someone because they are anti-town rather than because they are scummy. The whomp wagon is an example of this hence the question to crazy of why did he want him lynched?

Posting nothing but votes is quite scummy imo.

Why? I don't see it as alignment indicative at all.

[GGG]

Don't know why it quoted OCs post.

[GGG]

Ok this is most likely a stupid question but why can i see titles under peoples names they surely can't be correct can they?

If so then I think I'm seeing something I'm not suppose to see

I'm going to leave this here and see what other people think since nobody commented on it at the time. Munkir's subtitle is Townsperson. He seems inexperienced enough for this post to be a legitimate question. If he weren't town, he wouldn't have asked the question, seeing the contradiction with his own role.

That being said the rest of his posts have virtually no content and I would have had him on my leaning scum list. Not sure how to feel.

That's a real good catch, if he was scum he would have asked his scum team or pmd the mod. Does scum have day talk in normal?

unvote

[GGG]

@Naiomi,

My vote on you served its purpose, it got you to better explain your town reason for why you posted what you did, so I unvoted.

I defended whomp because people lynch bad townies too often rather than scum and the wagon was forming quickly. If he was just trolling he wasn't going to defend himself and when he hit l-1 he was just going to self hammer.

[GGG]

I really don't like riddles and isots dayvig sequence. It looks staged. It looks like they waited for a chance to do it. I ask about Daychat then riddle a and ISOt escalate it to a fake dayvig. If riddle is town and likes using fake day vigs why use that moment as the fake dayvig. And why so quickly ask if you are scum. If it was a gambit slow playing after the kill would get far better reactions then just a straight are you scum question.

Isotts reaction kind of seems normal but the Riddleton just bails on the gambit without allowing isott to fully react. Emotion is tough to fake for very long so ending it quickly serves the scum.

I don't like the whole interaction.

VOTE: Riddleton

[GGG]

Istott's reaction is town like I said, he sounded genuinly annoyed that he couldn't play on. I see no need to draw out the reaction test when his reaction clearly indicated to me he was town.

Why Isott, why this early, why did you just blatantly ask if he is scum?

[GGG]

The purpose of the reaction test was to see how Istott would respond to my fake dayvig and see if it's townlike. Once that goal was satisfied, there's no reason to continuing pushing it. Why do you think it's bad to 'give up' on it when I've already drawn a solid conclusion from the test (ie. that Istott is town)?

Why IStOt
Why this early in the game. This type of gambit only works once. And would work much better later once there is suspicion built up.

[GGG]

Whomping and flames

Are either of you reading eachother as scummy through this process or is this just pointless bickering. If it is just bickering just quit as it isn't putting anything of value out there and essentially stopping any productive discussion.

[GGG]

I'm not gonna comment on the reaction test stuff, I don't understand the test properly, so I'm just gonna let this lie and not respond to it, as I don't get it, and commenting on it as if I got it, would be miss leading as my lack of getting it is not useful information for town to get.

How do you not understand what happened on a Riddles reaction test

He posted a fake dayvig
Isott reacted
Riddle confessed.

What's there to not understand about the test. Two questions resolve from it. Did riddle and istot set this interaction up? Was Isotts reaction genuine?

Also why make this post stating that you have nothing to say? You could just not post about it. This is followed by a post of you adding the countdown clock to your sig. You look like you are trying to appear more active than you are.

[GGG]

Make me post more.

I'm a socially awkward shitbag.

Help me out here

What are your current reads on all positions. In particular this flames / whomp / istot sequence.

[GGG]

I'm not gonna comment on the reaction test stuff, I don't understand the test properly, so I'm just gonna let this lie and not respond to it, as I don't get it, and commenting on it as if I got it, would be miss leading as my lack of getting it is not useful information for town to get.

How do you not understand what happened on a Riddles reaction test

He posted a fake dayvig
Isott reacted
Riddle confessed.

What's there to not understand about the test. Two questions resolve from it. Did riddle and istot set this interaction up? Was Isotts reaction genuine?

Also why make this post stating that you have nothing to say? You could just not post about it. This is followed by a post of you adding the countdown clock to your sig. You look like you are trying to appear more active than you are.

I had a feeling the argument would continue on and wanted my comment of, not touching this, on record. that was pretty much the entire thing.

So do you not understand it or just don't want to talk about it.

[GGG]

Well, I think WW is town, and GGG actions feel scummy, partically when ISO'd (given that before I said anything on him, he had contributed 0) and beacuse GGG defended WW it makes me think that mabye WW is scum (a very good scum player). There was no real reason on why GGG would defend WW and since my vote landed on them, they have been taking alot more actions.

To be clear you believe that your vote on me caused me to be more active?

[GGG]

Pedit: I voted and attacked on you, and like the last time someone did the same, your activity perked up.

I think you are misrepresenting me here. My activity didn't change when whomp voted for me and my activity level Saturday is basically the same as it is today. So you are really reaching to say my activity level has changed as a result of your or any vote outside of one post to respond to it.

[GGG]

I think you are misrepresenting me here.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
I arranged your activity into a line graph, and added a pie chart for pre- and Post- Vote.

Well you used your time zone instead of mine, didn't compare any control groups and your original point was apparently about content and not post count. It's amazing how unimportant this whole inquiry was and how badly you botched the analysis on it. You get on the such bad play it's town list and to be fair you did warn us in your first post. Solid Town.

[GGG]

Droog /riddle can you confirm that your neighbour group is just the two of you.

[GGG]

Droog, why did you role claim neighbour so early.

I see no advantage in doing this as it outs 2 spots (if both neighbours are town which we don't know) which our power roles aren't. This makes it easier for scum to kill the power roles.

[GGG]

Naiomi / Munkir

Do you guys talk about the game in real life? Or about mafia in general? I am wondering if I should think of you as neighbors rather than as regular players

[GGG]

Did some iso reading today a few things jump out.

- ISOt has 1 real read of flames for being aggressive, the rest of posts have nothing. Lots of no content posts. This along with the dayvig thing puts him on the scum pile.

Original Chris 242 don't like no defending others early comment, if you don't feel someone is scum you have to bring it up. There is a point it goes overboard but to say never defend others day 1 seems too extreme. Not sure if someone else mentioned this elsewhere but in 403 OC is setting up a kill for info, then kill the other on droog and whomp. Scum gets two mislynches on a false choice. I do like oc's 420 as manipulating people to make cases is real scummy. OC, do you have specific instances of whomp manipulating posts.

Riddleton. Really don't like the dayvig gambit, timing doesn't make sense to gain info for the town. He's also disappeared for a day now since starting to be scumread. I'm interested in his seeing his reads right now.

Flubbs - not sure on but think he is poor town rather than scum.

I liked the AWA wall and the Kur0 walls. I much prefer reading walls to flubbs and flames line by lines stating nothing and having to dig back to find what they are talking about but each style has pros and cons.

[GGG]

This along with the dayvig thing puts him on the scum pile.

Care to explain?

I don't believe istots reaction is natural. But the fluff posting more than anything is why I am scum reading him.

[GGG]

Can you stop using pronouns because no one knows what you're referring to.

Looking at OC's ISO I can see the scumread on him. He's just tunneling droog and Womping with crappy reasoning.

Who is this directed at?

[GGG]

Yeah, I was about to say the same thing. Its not alignment indicative.

Where are your reads at.

I know earlier you said you work better with specific questions

So specifically

Whomping do you see the manipulation of posts that OC is referring to.
Is Munkir pretending to be a Naive or sincere
Do you believe whomp / droog are buddying if so is it suspicious

[GGG]

Yeah, I was about to say the same thing. Its not alignment indicative.

Where are your reads at.

I know earlier you said you work better with specific questions

So specifically

Whomping do you see the manipulation of posts that OC is referring to.
Is Munkir pretending to be a Naive or sincere
Do you believe whomp / droog are buddying if so is it suspicious

1: Is this directed at me?
2: I think it's sincere. Most people wouldnt take notice of the title, but I can easily see how it would confuse a newbtown. He's acting like I did when I was new to mafia, and is acting like other newbies ive played with.
3: I dont see them buddying, at all. Maybe I'm just daft.

Number 1 was a question for you.

Should have read do you see whomping manipulating posts as OC is claiming.

[GGG]

Before you did all that analysis what were your gut reads.

[GGG]

Naiomi,

How do crazies vote, posting, and content differ from the average.

Also it appears that you picked out crazy did a bunch of fake graphs, then fit the data and the argument to your pre-existing suspicions.

Have you benchmarked this system in other games say by taking 10 games, do this type of analysis and predicting scum based on it. How much better than luck is this type of pseudo analysis.

I would suggest in general to drop the spreadsheets and focus on content.

[GGG]

If the mods don't replace flubbs I am okay with a policy lynch on him. Regardless of alignment I don't want to play with someone who is intentionally using homophobic slurs.

[GGG]

I will post once and only was on the slur topic. After that it is up to the mods. When you use 'gay' in a negative connotation it is a slur.

Similar to you throw like a girl is insulting the way women play sports. Calling something negative gay is insulting to gay people. Not sure what you think the word has evolved into that doesn't link it back to insulting homosexuals. The reason words are important is the attitude that being gay is a negative is quite pervasive in today's society and tolerating the use of the word only furthers that attitude. This needs to be changed and if that occurs on one little corner of the internet then it's worth the fight.

So I am asking flubbs and others to refrain from using it in any negative connotation. The first one was a slip but these second two were clearly meant as insults to cp as he was the original person who asked that gay not be used as a slur. It is also insulting munk that you would argue that flubbs was calling those posts happy. It was clearly calling the posts and logic terrible and using the word gay to do it. I know it, you know it we all know it. You don't have to agree with me and would prefer not to make a big deal out of it.

/stepping of my soapbox.

For me flubbs simply committing to not using gay as a slur ends the issue.

[GGG]

Flubbs, what is your case on CP. I am not seeing it in your ISO?

[GGG]

My top scum reads right now are

OC - trying to pair whomp / droog seems scummy. Can you point out the specific posts that link droog and whomp. Also where is whomp misdirecting posts. Also an update was promised to your reads but instead went off ranting. The last one is null to slightly scummy.

Flubbs - no content, lots of posts, no hunting
Riddleton

Sorry, I've been really busy these past few days. I'll catch up soon and provide my full reads tomorrow.

This is now two days ago. Effectively since the fake dayvig gambit he hasn't posted. Riddle what are your reads

Town - Naiomi - her play would be a hell of a scum gambit
- munk Town slip early on

Kuro8 is a big null right now. Can you be more active.

I like drools comment not to kill riddle as they are neighbours and I am interested to see if anything can be gained from them talking tonight so while he is suspicious it can wait.

unvote

VOTE: flubs

[GGG]

When it comes to this game, I see no significant difference between abetting scum by being flagrantly anti-town and true scum.

Please explain this. I think the difference is huge. I would say most mislynches start with a townie over reading anti town behaviour.

[GGG]

flubber and pianist are both trolls
but when each one talks i like their position better
thinking its definietly not town v town
leaning toward pianist being the scum

Has this type of either or read ever worked out when made day 150k. When backed by vote history you can make some either or links but two guys arguing can you really get a read from. It's pure wifom.

It's scummy early on because it sets up a moslynch day one and a mislynch day 2 and all you have to do is pick two random people arguing and say 1 is scum one is town.

[GGG]

Unvote

I think i did that right

As of right now I have no scum reads only a vague idea of what I'm looking for and who I'm looking at

I think its one of those cases of "I will know it when I see it"

Keep a vote on someone. You might not be confident in it but forcing scum (not necessarily you) to keep votes on people will help us later on. A vague idea of where you are at is better than nothing.

[GGG]

Ok this is most likely a stupid question but why can i see titles under peoples names they surely can't be correct can they?

If so then I think I'm seeing something I'm not suppose to see

I'm going to leave this here and see what other people think since nobody commented on it at the time. Munkir's subtitle is Townsperson. He seems inexperienced enough for this post to be a legitimate question. If he weren't town, he wouldn't have asked the question, seeing the contradiction with his own role.

That being said the rest of his posts have virtually no content and I would have had him on my leaning scum list. Not sure how to feel.

This post here is why crazy is currently in my leaning town list.

[GGG]

You guys are boring. I'll make a proper post later

Oh my goodness he talks. And doesn't say anything except saying we're all boring. Amazing. I can imagine his next post now:

"Guys, I was just trying to get information in RVS. I did and you're clearly all scummy."

Pro-tip willow, your actions were pretty anti-town.

But In isoing him I don't like this post. He is presupposing the next argument to make whomping look worse then he is.

[GGG]

Flubbs, what is your case on CP. I am not seeing it in your ISO?

I saw his inconsistent tone as a red flag and dropped a naked vote to see what would happen. He completely lost his shit and got way too defensive. He can make any case he wants but his intentions scream self preservation over scumhunting.

What inconsistent tone. Could you identify which posts show a change in tone?

[GGG]

Droog prove to me you're not buddying me. I feel like you're buddying me.

do you want me to yell at you like kuribo
i could say you have a rusty fork prong for a tongue
and a dick to match
but i honestly dont give a fuck

if you want to suspect the one person not using bullshit
'i dont like x therefore anti town therefore scum' logic
vote me

so not no going to convince you

I don't understand the reaction here. Why not just explain your logic

[GGG]

flubber is accusing me of buddying
over the 'gay is a slur' conversation
where i already explained my logic
and everyone agreed to drop the conversation

otherwise everything about
'droog is buddying'
is in fluggeb's gead

I understood the logic what I didn't understand is the hostile tone of it.

[GGG]

That's not my argument.

Well your argument is based off assumptions of why I voted for you that are false so I'm at a loss.

Nope. I thought you were voting me b/c of 362. Terribad reason to vote me so I voted you.

You then change your reasoning to this "tone" argument which is basically nonexistent.

I'm voting for you

now

because you still have a bad reason, and because you didn't give a good reason to vote originally.

so who are my scumbuddies.

This solidifies my vote on flubs. Day 1, unless you have the worst scum team ever, will not reveal buddies. Pushing for associative tells day one is scummy. This is really poor defense.

I really don't like AWAs voting because he sees flubs as anti town and he keeps pushing it as a good tactic so he has gone from null to lean scum, this could just be misguided town though so I need more from him. Not a day 1 lynch for me.

I really don't see the argument against CP. It appears right now to be based purely on tone which is poor even for day 1. I think the sarcasm was warranted as the accusation against him by Naiomi was such a mess that arguing against it was pointless when a demonstration made the point succinctly. The emotional tone of CPs arguments to me is consistent.

I want answers to my questions from OC once his schedule clears up. Mainly backup for his accusations of buddying and whomp misrepresenting people.

[GGG]

I really don't like AWAs voting because he sees flubs as anti town and he keeps pushing it as a good tactic so he has gone from null to lean scum, this could just be misguided town though so I need more from him. Not a day 1 lynch for me.

Can you explain to me why voting for an anti-town player is worse than not voting, which is my only other option at the moment, since I don't have any definitive scum reads? To me, the order of danger to the town goes: Scum > Anti-town > Neutral > Town. If I can't be sure of someone being scum, then anti-town becomes my highest choice for removing danger to the town.

People in this game have done scummy things. You should be voting for who you think is the scummiest. The problem with your logic is that you are never sure someone's scum so therefore will never vote for a scummy person.

Do you find anything scummy about flubs posting?

[GGG]

Naiomi,

How do crazies vote, posting, and content differ from the average.

Also it appears that you picked out crazy

did a bunch of fake graphs,

then fit the data and the argument to your pre-existing suspicions.

Have you benchmarked this system in other games say by taking 10 games, do this type of analysis and predicting scum based on it. How much better than luck is this type of pseudo analysis.

I would suggest in general to drop the spreadsheets and focus on content.

Just going back to this one; the graphs are not fake, you can confirm ALL the data your self, its below the graphs in plain view, Please don't misrepresent my graphs, they take alot of time to build partially when examining someones attacks, self defend, null, informative and defence posts, that took the best part of 4 hours.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said fake, I should have said that the data doesn't support any conclusions.

Without baseline data of to what produces scummy stats the stats only identify a posters posting style. I appreciate the effort but think your effort could be better directed at finding the scummy posts and connections between people rather than trying to find meaning in percentage of posts and post to vote ratios.

[GGG]

I really don't like AWAs voting because he sees flubs as anti town and he keeps pushing it as a good tactic so he has gone from null to lean scum, this could just be misguided town though so I need more from him. Not a day 1 lynch for me.

Can you explain to me why voting for an anti-town player is worse than not voting, which is my only other option at the moment, since I don't have any definitive scum reads? To me, the order of danger to the town goes: Scum > Anti-town > Neutral > Town. If I can't be sure of someone being scum, then anti-town becomes my highest choice for removing danger to the town.

People in this game have done scummy things.

That is an matter of opinion.

You should be voting for who you think is the scummiest. The problem with your logic is that you are never sure someone's scum so therefore will never vote for a scummy person.

Do you find anything scummy about flubs posting?

The person I think is scummiest is the person that I think is helping the scum the most, be they actual scum or not. This is completely in line with what I have been saying all along.

I really don't like AWAs voting because he sees flubs as anti town and he keeps pushing it as a good tactic so he has gone from null to lean scum, this could just be misguided town though so I need more from him. Not a day 1 lynch for me.

Can you explain to me why voting for an anti-town player is worse than not voting, which is my only other option at the moment, since I don't have any definitive scum reads? To me, the order of danger to the town goes: Scum > Anti-town > Neutral > Town. If I can't be sure of someone being scum, then anti-town becomes my highest choice for removing danger to the town.

People in this game have done scummy things. You should be voting for who you think is the scummiest. The problem with your logic is that you are never sure someone's scum so therefore will never vote for a scummy person.

Do you find anything scummy about flubs posting?

Cp/oc??/awa scumteam.

Elaborate?

This is a very brazen thing to ask from your "read the thread" high horse.

The difference here being that whenever I post a conclusion that I draw, I provide the steps of reasoning within that same post. You, on the other hand, simply state a conclusion(?) without any supporting evidence, leaving everyone to read your post and come to their own conclusions, which, since you poisoned the well with your own assertion, will likely be skewed toward your own stated conclusion. It's a classic example to psychological manipulation, which some people might not have recognized but which I won't fall for.

So AWA, you see nothing that would indicate mafia alignment with flubs. It is purely because he is a distraction to the town and allows town to hide.

[GGG]

Right now, my two highest candiatess are Flubber and Droog, Flubber for causing anti-town chaos and Droog for not only encouraging that sort of chaos, but for pointing a finger at those who call it out. Flubber's 524 is exactly the kind of misdirection and poisoning the well that I'm talking about. Also notice the buddy-buddy with Droog; I could easily see a scumbuddy relationship there.

This is as close a AWA comes to calling flubbs scum.

[GGG]

Wow I'm a lot more tired than I thought I was. I wanted to make a big post but I don't really want to do a point-by-point of the eight pages that happened since my last post, so I'll just give my general impressions here:

Whomping Willow:

I'm glad that he's decided to start contributing, and his contributions have some content. That said, I don't have any particular leaning either way: I don't necessarily gather a scum vibe from him, but I haven't gotten any clear town tells from him either. My stance: Neutral. (Side note: I explicitly didn't vote for you in RVS because I dislike RVS in general; especially in this forum format where people may vote and then be away for an extended period, a person may be mistakenly lynched due to an RVS vote that would otherwise have been prevented in a different format. IGMEOY does the same thing, perhaps slightly less strongly, without the chance of mislynch).

Originalchris:

My inclination here is scum. By 219 Willow had been posting several content posts, none of which I personally got a scum tell from. His entire case against Willow appears to be the "scumtell of the year" (commenting on the word "anyway"), and an apparent obsession with deflection, which is a convenient counter to almost any response and which can be both confusing and frustrating for the town. He also seems to be of an extremes mindset, by which I mean that if someone is accused to scum, then reasonable doubt is not enough to save, them, but rather we must go beyond a shadow of a doubt. This can be very dangerous later in the game, where a scum player can simply put a random town up for examination, and then cast doubt to create the lynch. My stance: Neutral.

Pedit: 370 is a great post. I don't necessarily agree with everything in it, but that he posted some more content is great, something that everyone should do, instead of posting fluff in order to look active.

crazypianist1116:

Despite him asking both myself and kuror0 to post more, he has almost no posts of content. The only one I could find is 170, but it is a very important post. I agree that if Munkir were not town, he would not have asked the question, though there are indeed some strange things with his post style (more on him later though). Not enough content here. My stance: Neutral.

Pedit: 373 is great, similar to 370 above. Again, I disagree with some of the points, but more content = good.

istott:

I'd say that the most important interaction here is Riddleton's fake dayvig (actually had to look up what that was, had no clue that that even existed), his reaction to it, and his reaction to the aftermath. In my opinion, his reaction was fairly normal for a town, though a properly skilled scum player could fake it fairly easily I suppose. In order to arrive at this conclusion, we have to look at what a scum would do:

Istott, having no knowledge of whether there was in fact a dayvig, has three options: Post a claim saying that he he's town, post a claim admitting to scum, or not posting at all and waiting to see if there was a mod announcement.

Iif he thinks there is indeed a dayvig, then:

-Claiming town as scum does nothing; he's already dead. Claiming town as town also does nothing.
-Claiming scum as scum does nothing; he's already dead. Claiming scum as town is stupid.
-Therefore posting nothing is the only sensible response. He did not post nothing, so he must have thought that there was not a dayvig. Therefore:

-Claiming town as scum could possibly save him. Claiming town as town could also save him.
-Claiming scum as scum would do nothing. Claiming scum as town is stupid.
-Posting nothing would lead to an accusation of dodging, although we don't know if the mod would immediately make an announcement of death, so it might lead to an examination to see if the dayvig actually existed based on mod response (or lack thereof).

The only conclusion that it is possible to draw is that istott did not think that there was a dayvig, but felt compelled to respond in the only logical manner, which was to claim town. This does not tell us anything about his role in and of itself, and I'm not experienced enough at reading forced tells to make a judgment on 192. That said, he seems rather chilly in ISO 29-33. I don't know whether to label this as a scum trying to imitate a town keeping their emotions down, or the genuine article. Basically, my read is that I have no clear reads, however IGMEOY. My stance: Neutral.

Naomi-Tan:

Her biggest post by far is 245, although 22 and 165 warrant consideration.

22: I agree somewhat that acting newbish and naive in the beginning seemed like a possible smokescreen, but in my opinion she has since shown enough caution and general competence to be disavowed of that defense. I also share her views toward RVS in general, so I'm glad that she wanted to move on as soon as possible.

165: There are lots of words here, but not much content. You say that 94 (you said 92 but meant 94) was a possibly-good, possibly-bad post, which is convenient waffling. You also state your ideas on how a point-by-point post should be structured, which doesn't really tell us anything at all. Moral of the story here is that lots of words does not mean lots of content.

245: Another big post with very little actual content. The most important things are right at the end: She lists several negative things about originalchris, yet also states that she doesn't see him as scummy, and then proceeds to vote GGG for not talking, where her vote still stands, despite him actually posting several comments, both before and after her vote, of meaningful content.

My big problem with Naomi is that she tends to talk a lot but say very little. This can be detrimental in the long run, but I don't really get a scum vibe from it, either. That said, I haven't seen any town tells. My stance: Neutral.

Munkir:

Almost entirely no content at all. The most curious thing that I see is that in 323, he uses the term WIFOM. Either Naomi is giving him coaching (which I'm not particularly fond of in principle) or he's more familiar with the game than would be expected of a true newbie (in which case he has been obfuscating stupidity). Either way, while I haven't seen any explicit scum tells, I'm uneasy about this player. My stance: Neutral, but IGMEOY.

droog:

The first thing I have to say is that I really dislike his posting style. It reminds me of Runescape, and there's really no point to it on a forum where posts can be typed out in their entirety and be made grammatically correct. However, that doesn't really have a bearing on the game, and since he seems to be consistent with using that style over his previous games, I don't believe that there is some kind of posting restriction associated with his role.

His "plan" to prod out Riddleton as his neighbor was kind of strained and his reaction was very disproportionate. Can someone clarify to me if neighbors necessarily know the other neighbor's role? If so, then I could see a scum's attempt at a fake bus backfiring. Other than this, he's posted almost nothing of any substance. His freakout gave me a very negative vibe. My stance: Scum.

GGG:

He brings up a good point about the isott-Riddleton dayvig exchange, which I hadn't considered. However, it would only be able to be staged if the scum were able to communicate outside of the thread. Is this possible? I'm not sure how the neighbor mechanic works (I had to look it up when analyzing droog above). I sort of agree with him about Riddleton bailing too easily on the fake dayvig. I don't know if it's enough to make me vote, since as I said such a ploy would only be possible if they were able to communicate, which we don't know is possible. So far, I get at least a neutral feeling, leaning toward town. My stance: Town.

AWA:

obvious scum pls lynch.

kuror0:

No content. I certainly understand the time problem, since I've been rather sparse myself, but with only one post so far it's very difficult to get any kind of read. My stance: Neutral.

Riddleton:

His dayvig test really unsettles me. It seems very forced, and he gives it up very quickly for something that is by nature only usable once per game. However, Like I said above, it's hard to see how this could be construed as scummy UNLESS he and istott were both scum, AND could have communicated outside of the thread. IGMEOY. My stance: Neutral, dependent on my views toward istott.

Flames682:

Just to address something that happened WAY back and has already been moved on from, I didn't IGMEOY Willow for bandwagoning GGG, but for bandwagoning Riddleton in the beginning. This sounds dumb, but I got to the bottom of the first page of posts and didn't realize that there were more pages before I replied (it's been a long time since I've post on any kind of message board).

What I really don't like about him is that ISO 28-65 is all fluff, there's absolutely zero content whatsoever. In addition, his only other useful substance relates to the istott-Riddleton exchange (which I've already gone over several time); he jumps on istott for reacting in the only possible way he could have reacted (see above) and puts a vote down on top of that. Combined with his general rude and aggressive attitude and posting style, I get a negative vibe from him. Perhaps lower on my list than others, but still suspicious. My stance: Scum.

Flubbernugget:

First things first: Your avatar creeps me out. A lot. I would appreciate it if you would change it, but if you don't I'll live.

In regards to his content, there is actually very little here to go off of. The only thing is a vote on droog for his overreaction to the "hammer" on Riddleton (where it still stands, by the way). The vote itself is innocuous, in my opinion; less so is the fact that it still stands, without any reasonable justification, and in fact an explicit refusal to justify it. All of his other posts have been fluff. My stance: Scum.

---

To sum up, I think that there are some people who lean further toward scum than others, and some people who are VERY tenuously on the fence, but who can easily fall one way or the other. For now, I think I will

Vote: droog

. His Riddleton hammer response and subsequent neighbor claim both seemed contrived. However, depending on how the next few pages of discussion go, I could easily see this vote switching to Riddleton/istott or Flubber.

Tag fixed
~Mod

I am flip flopping back and forth on you. In your first reads post you have flubbs, flames and droog as scum. Now you are saying you have no scum read on flubbs and it is basically lynching someone anti town.

Why the change from scum reading flubs to him just being anti town.

[GGG]

Awa is town. No way to fake that type of melt down and that type of frustration only happens when your town

[GGG]

Maybe I'm confbiased but it just looks like flail to me

Hes not attacking being voted for though. Hes attacking d roog misrepping him. To me it reads frusterated town.

[GGG]

perhaps you could argue awa hasnt said 1 or 2 of those things
but if awa has not said:
flubber is scummy
flubber is anti-town
flubber is scummy for being anti-town

then why, naomi, is awa voting flubber?

I think if you read AWAs numerous clarifications, he has stated that flubs behaviour is anti town and in the absence of any good scum reads we should vote for the worst townie. While I disagree on this he has been remarkably consistent even when I tried to bait him into scum reading flubbs.

I believe AWA is voting you now though.

Pedit: CP I will try to use that feature. Some posts were done on my phone so it's much more difficult to manipulate.

[GGG]

Goblin replaces Riddleton.

Oh god. Even as a troll alt I can't tolerate this guy.

Are you math Dino by chance?

[GGG]

What's interesting is that everyone has jumped on AWA while talk around flubs has dried up. It appears that their is a push to move discussion away from flubbs. Flubbs has had almost no content despite being a high poster. His one case on CP started with a vote and without logic to support. Then it took a few days to get that logic out of him. It was tone, essentially he was upset at being voted for and nice to Munkir. Post 635. After that it is a weak defense against AWA consisting mostly of you aren't reading my posts.

Flubbs what is your response to the argue,nets that you have little content, post fluff, and your only cast on CPs tone is not alignment indicative.

Pedit posting this before reading the last 3 posts

[GGG]

Well not everyone but everyone currently posting is involved in a discussion around AWA and not others.

[GGG]

Why are you okay with awa having no scum reads?

I'm not really okay with it. I think somewhere I posted I disagree with his whole lynch the most damaging to town strategy. I just don't find it scummy.

[GGG]

Also the no scum reads characterization of him is now false as droog has made his way onto his scum list.

[GGG]

@droog

I just finished the newb game the camping trip with flubbs. Flubbs in that game just asked questions with no analysis. In the other town games you listed he seemed to follow this ask questions meta. This game he is just making fluff statements.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=24265

Compare this games ISO with the one above. This came he isn't the same questioning scum hunter.

[GGG]

GGG that's really cute that you can cherry pick a single game of mine to scum paint me.

You must have taken the same statistics class as naomi.

Flubbs could you summarize your reads then for us. The only one I have down for you is CP for tone

[GGG]

Munk where is your vote. It's time for us to get votes on the table to move to a consensus.

That goes for all non voters right now.

[GGG]

Cp do you still like your riddleton vote?

[GGG]

Hi guys I'm here.

droog is town.

Even if your neighbours that does not prove allignment.

[GGG]

Hi guys I'm here.

droog is town.

Even if your neighbours that does not prove allignment.

I made this statement after reading the page where I made my first post, and seeing his post.

Can you quote what in particular makes you think he is town.

[GGG]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6409052

There isn't a single word in that whole epic that doesn't come from a townie mindset.

Thanks, I haven't been reading the long posts. I am convinced AWA vs Droog is town v town.

[GGG]

I would like to get an alternative to lynching AWA. While his posting is non productive I firmly believe he is town.

I can go on istot, original Chris or flubbs. At this point will not vote AwA, droog, Naiomi, whomp, CP, Munkir. I probably want to keep tier around based on his early reads. Goof I'm not sure on as I scumread riddle early

Goofball, what did you think of your slots dayvig gambit?

[GGG]

Sorry that wasnt nice why is awa town

For me these long never dropped attacks between two people end up town v town. Especially win AWA looses it and starts posting like droog from 740ish or so. The frustration appears real.

[GGG]

The Istot case

Votes on whoever hasn't posted for random voting stating it creates pressure for them to post. This allows him to skip contributing to early discussion

Has made one read on the flames / tier slot

436. He makes sure everyone knows that they shouldn't town read him based on dayvig. This leans scum it shows concern for managing how other view him

896 asks other to summarize the cases against themselves (this is just wierd but null)

Really he posted a lot early with low content then dropped to the background (though some was vla). Similar to flubbs profile.

That's about what I have on Istot

[GGG]

Case on OC

403. Sets up the one of these two is scum case. Scum gets 2 lynches for the price of one

Scum reads people for defending eachother 223

Creates more associative tells early day 1 219, 221, 223

[GGG]

I've got a few people saying they would be fine with me being lynched, but no votes and no reasons why. Why?

I gave a list of reasons from my list above if you could address them.

[GGG]

I've got a few people saying they would be fine with me being lynched, but no votes and no reasons why. Why?

POE for me, but I will iso you before casting a vote. I have some work this afternoon and then I'll get to it.

If its POE for you what people have you cleared as town in order to POE istott

[GGG]

The Istot case

Votes on whoever hasn't posted for random voting stating it creates pressure for them to post. This allows him to skip contributing to early discussion

Has made one read on the flames / tier slot

436. He makes sure everyone knows that they shouldn't town read him based on dayvig. This leans scum it shows concern for managing how other view him

896 asks other to summarize the cases against themselves (this is just wierd but null)

Really he posted a lot early with low content then dropped to the background (though some was vla). Similar to flubbs profile.

That's about what I have on Istot

1: I don't really see how that's bad. I was trying to get people to post, and I did contribute to the discussion.
2: I don't see what is wrong with this specifically.
3: I always care how others view me. I AM a newbie, you realise? Im not strong at hunting scum. And besides, I was agreeing with other people that said it was a null tell.
4: I ask this question, regardless of alignment. I'm surprised that no one answered it though.
5: This is not the only game I've been less active in. It's for a RL reason.

1. It doesn't work, voting for a player who hasn't posted won't make a player post sooner so there is no value to the town. Doing it allows you to vote for people without having to have reasons.

2. It's the end of day 1 lots of stuff has happened. You haven't commented on flubbs, droog, AWA or any of happenings. I realize you have been busy recently but having very low content for 88 posts is scummy.

3. Fair enough, if it is because you are no I would advise not asking directly how someone views you it is not productive to draw suspicion to yourself. To me the question is scummy.

4. I haven't seen it asked. What are you looking for when asking someone to self read?

5. Fair enough, it's always tough to tell RL afk from lurking.

[GGG]

I've got a few people saying they would be fine with me being lynched, but no votes and no reasons why. Why?

POE for me, but I will iso you before casting a vote. I have some work this afternoon and then I'll get to it.

If its POE for you what people have you cleared as town in order to POE istott

Dripping i want an explanation for this post. Also why flubber?

[GGG]

@Istot
2- i would like to see your reads today.
3- sorry you didnt, not sure where i got that from

[GGG]

unvote

No one seems interested in flubbs so I will have to wait.

We are inside a day to go now and need to provide an anti AWA option. I am good with Istot but can I sell anyone on a DGB

His saying is scum lean on Istot was POE was really bad. How can he POE on day one, he then flips to flubbs with no explanation. He looks like a man searching for a wagon.

Riddletons dayvig gambit also read like someone searching for town cred. It could just have been horribly executed

Istot and DGB I need your reads stat.

VOTE: DGB

Willing to move to Istot for a deadline lynch. Will be around for the next 5 or so hours to discuss.

[GGG]

FTR deadline is over 36 hours away.

I hated riddleton but I'm more or less okay with DGB which is why I prefer an istott lynch by a mile.

Please.

How do you read dripping 989

[GGG]

Thanks istot for the reads. Don't replace yet as we are already down two. So sporadic posting is definately better than an empty slot

[GGG]

could you be convinced you into a Droog Lynch?

Naiomi, if you want to save AWA join the DGB wagon we have 3 votes on it now and scummy things done by both owners of the slot.

Only drawback is killing drools neighbour so it takes away any potential benefit from his power.

[GGG]

i have a much bigger case against flubber

I'm voting Flubber.

Dripping please address how you POEd istot and your case on flubbs. This is the 2nd time you have posted without addressing it.

[GGG]

Otherwise I can just make up any tell and say 'it's what scum do'.

It's what I've seen scum do. Sad to say but I have the highest total post count on this site, which means I have been scum many, many times, and I have seen how literal hundreds of scum team mates behave, including myself.

I'm town, droog is town, AWA is town...

Flubber is all fluff complaining that the game is fluff. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p6404517 > here is is resorting to naked ad homs. There are aggressive stances but they are all of the "answer my questions dammit" type which tend to come from scum.

istott has a lot of RL excuses (which scum tend to favor), a reeeeeal lot.

Your original read on istot was POE. You are the most experienced scum hunter on this site. You have 2 town reads how is your original istot scumread PoE?

[GGG]

22 hrs to deadline, time for us to make a decision. We need to lynch today so if you are checking in please state if you are staying where you are or move your vote to one of the leaders. We need 7 for a lynch. Viable wagons appear to be dripping and AWA. There also is some support for flubbs and istot but I do not believe there is enough time for those to be formed.

We need decisions to be made now.

[GGG]

I don't like those posts either, but in terms of value to the town I think that DGB is more valuable than Willow. If we're talking about which scum to lynch (assuming that DGB is scum, which I'm not convinced of) then DGB is less obtuse than Willow, and if droog is telling the truth and is neighbors with DGB then the additional discussion may be useful, while we don't stand to lose any potential powers by lynching Willow.

No Lynch is the default, though desirable, right? I just want to make sure because some people seem to think that it's a most votes auto lynch at the end of the day.

I disagree, at this point any scum read is at best 50/50 so lynching someone even if I am town reading them is better than lynching no one. I will flip to hammer at the deadline.

That said get on board the DGB wagon. Your post about powers is dead wrong though neighbours, when the town knows their neighbours as very little utility. Therefore loosing a neighbour isn't a terrible loss powers wise. wW could be anything so in terms of risk to town power roles DGB is a better lynch. This however is a terrible reason to choose between two people day 1.

[GGG]

I am game for f lubbs istot dgb. I will switch to awa to assure a lynch if necessary before deadline

[GGG]

vote istot

Will check back in about 2 hrs.

[GGG]

VOTE: awa

[GGG]

That's l-1 for AWA

The irony here is that we are lynching the person who is most destructive to the town.

[GGG]

That's l-1 for AWA

The irony here is that we are lynching the person who is most destructive to the town.

Well then... guess this is the time for a roleclaim, Im staying off this train, so its on record that I wasn't on it :I

You think it is the towns best interest to lynch no one over a say 80% townie? This post seems scummy you are more concerned with how you appear the whether AWA is town or not.

[GGG]

Well while we are in twilight just want to express my thoughts on the situation. I think it was rather sad that we spent the last week bouncing back and forth on AWA and Droog the whole argument got old with me real fast so I felt unmotivated to read, I knew this situation would continue until lynch :/ I just wish that it wasn't AWA thats going, but I guess we'll see if I was in the right to defend AWA all this time at least and it should reflect on Droog rather well too.

Why didn't you join one of the alternative wagons and push other discussion.

[GGG]

I can see that I'm not going to be successful in getting a Willow train started. The candidates that seem to be myself (4), DGB (4), istott (2), and Flubber (1). I'm clearly not going to vote for myself, but I'm not entirely sure about who else to vote; Willow is the person who is acting the most scummy, to me.

OC, there is no way that you actually read everything I posted and give it fair and thoughtful consideration, or else you wouldn't lump it all together and dismiss it as "flailing".

Presuming that was a confession this post becomes interesting.

Dgb was a viable wagon here to save awa. He would have made it 5 going into the deadline and made dgb the leading lynch someone candidate instead of awa. To me this reinforces scum read on dgb.

[GGG]

I can see that I'm not going to be successful in getting a Willow train started. The candidates that seem to be myself (4), DGB (4), istott (2), and Flubber (1). I'm clearly not going to vote for myself, but I'm not entirely sure about who else to vote; Willow is the person who is acting the most scummy, to me.

OC, there is no way that you actually read everything I posted and give it fair and thoughtful consideration, or else you wouldn't lump it all together and dismiss it as "flailing".

Here is where I start today.

Why didn't AWA try to save himself? DGB was a viable wagon. Was he protecting his buddy. Now I have to go through AWAs walls and see his interactions with DGB.

[GGG]

Nice work Naiomi. I would like to get some reads from our replacements before we hammer DGB.

[GGG]

If DGB killed randomly it would be good for us to keep him alive as a random kill has a chance of hitting scum where as night kills kill only town. However DGB is probably more inclined to kill the people who caught him first.

If we lynch DGB today we have a 7-2 situation if DGB is being honest or an 8-1 with just one scum team. That result is pretty good after two days. And is far less risky than letting her live.

Lynching DGB is the correct play.

[GGG]

So DGBs insistence on multiball leads me to believe she is protecting her last person. Especially the last neighbours comment. Her push for multiball would make sense if there was an associative link between DGB / AWA and the last remaining scum. The biggest one would be istot / eyestott slot with the Riddleton/DGB fake dayvig.

[GGG]

I think there's a good chance GGG is scum.

I want to hear more about this.

My first instinct was that one of the people trying to split the vote from AWA to istott (i.e. Originalchris and GGG) were scum. The "congratulating" Naomi in post 1225 also felt off because both the sentences in the post seem stilted. A more exhaustive search of GGG's activity showed a fairly extensive history of criticism towards Riddleton's slot and AWA and that's why I called the read "premature" later.

droog, we have to flip DGB in order to secure the premises to build on. If she's actually mafia, any speculation done today would be built on bogus assumptions.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

To clarify TTH I had town read AWA pretty hard after the big walls started showing up and droog was twisting things around. Then I quit reading the big walls and game back at the deadline to assure a lynch. I did like the DGB wagon yesterday and was pushing that pre deadline, pre-flip and pre-watcher reveal today.

Right now do you believe there are two factions or one faction?

[GGG]

Forgot about that. My thought was that either both scum groups killed the same person or the mafia kill failed somehow. Because the probability of the mafia kill failing is likely low, I figured they both killed the same person. :S

You forgot that the watcher would have seen the second killer if they both double killed tier? That doesn't seem likely.

[GGG]

I have no allies, I'm the last of my two-person faction.

Why are you still participating and throwing out reads

[GGG]

We're at L-2, ww.

As a note we are effectively at l1 as DGB has unvoted and will likely self lynch. I would like kurors replacement to post at least a few thoughts before going into night.

[GGG]

I am ready to vote to put DGB at l-1. DGB will probably hammer at this point. Anyone want more time?

[GGG]

Fair enough, I will wait, I am voting by end of day tomorrow regardless.

[GGG]

VOTE: drippinggoofball

That's L-1

[GGG]

@delbird, you've scumread my AWA interactions but you have completely ignored my DGB interactions. If you want more start at 1027 and go from there.

unvote

No one seems interested in flubbs so I will have to wait.

We are inside a day to go now and need to provide an anti AWA option. I am good with Istot but can I sell anyone on a DGB

His saying is scum lean on Istot was POE was really bad. How can he POE on day one, he then flips to flubbs with no explanation. He looks like a man searching for a wagon.

Riddletons dayvig gambit also read like someone searching for town cred. It could just have been horribly executed

Istot and DGB I need your reads stat.

VOTE: DGB

Willing to move to Istot for a deadline lynch. Will be around for the next 5 or so hours to discuss.

I was the first vote on DGB in creating an alternative wagon to AWA. I also scumread Riddleton early for the fake dayvig.

I can see that I'm not going to be successful in getting a Willow train started. The candidates that seem to be myself (4), DGB (4), istott (2), and Flubber (1). I'm clearly not going to vote for myself, but I'm not entirely sure about who else to vote; Willow is the person who is acting the most scummy, to me.

OC, there is no way that you actually read everything I posted and give it fair and thoughtful consideration, or else you wouldn't lump it all together and dismiss it as "flailing".

Presuming that was a confession this post becomes interesting.

Dgb was a viable wagon here to save awa. He would have made it 5 going into the deadline and made dgb the leading lynch someone candidate instead of awa. To me this reinforces scum read on dgb.

My post pre flip on AWA

I can see that I'm not going to be successful in getting a Willow train started. The candidates that seem to be myself (4), DGB (4), istott (2), and Flubber (1). I'm clearly not going to vote for myself, but I'm not entirely sure about who else to vote; Willow is the person who is acting the most scummy, to me.

OC, there is no way that you actually read everything I posted and give it fair and thoughtful consideration, or else you wouldn't lump it all together and dismiss it as "flailing".

Here is where I start today.

Why didn't AWA try to save himself? DGB was a viable wagon. Was he protecting his buddy. Now I have to go through AWAs walls and see his interactions with DGB.

My pre Naiomi reveal post on day 2.

[GGG]

You're quite right about the Watcher thing, of course. Blame getting to the 50th page at midnight. Naomi is, obviously, town.

GGG - not knowing that DGB was scum until I got to the end of my read (though I would have instalynched her for her AWA read if Naomi hadn't caught her), my notes are only drawing links to the flipped scum. I will look at DGB connections Tomorrow and see if that changes things.

Fair enough, I butchered the AWA read.

Istot /TTH is my starting point.

[GGG]

Hi guys I'm here.

droog is town.

AWA is town.

Comes in with two quick town reads. I don't believe she tow read without evidence both scum buddies. Also droog led charge against AWA -- droog is not a wolf

Will sheep this.

VOTE: Whomping Willow

DGB is looking for an alternative to the AWA wagon votes WW. - likely not a wolf

I'd be up for an istott lynch.

I've got a few people saying they would be fine with me being lynched, but no votes and no reasons why. Why?

POE for me, but I will iso you before casting a vote. I have some work this afternoon and then I'll get to it.

Says she'd be up for an IsTot lynch, gives worst reason ever, says she'll explain it, never does and never votes for istot despite a wagon forming at the last minute.

Not feeling Willow anymore. Don't want AWA lynch.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

I'm town, droog is town, AWA is town...

Flubber is all fluff complaining that the game is fluff. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p6404517 > here is is resorting to naked ad homs. There are aggressive stances but they are all of the "answer my questions dammit" type which tend to come from scum.

istott has a lot of RL excuses (which scum tend to favor), a reeeeeal lot.

The idea is that DGB was looking for a wagon to get started. When one did start on Istot she didn't jump on. OC voted Istot, I followed, an hour later DGB post asking for a vote count. This wagon could have hit 4 votes and been number two behind AWA. DGB didn't jump on it.

vote: telltalehart

[GGG]

I don't see how that vote follows

Didn't TTH replace istot?

[GGG]

Do you think Riddleton would have faked a dayvig on his scumbuddy?

I think so,

The play was so bad from Riddleton doing the dayvig in the first place in hard to assess motive. I see it more likely doing it on a buddy then a random townie. Why does he want to prove a random townie town? The reaction on both sides seemed staged.

[GGG]

So, Once again no kill, suspect the possibility of the other team having some-kinda recruitment role maybe? to bloater there numbers...

What do you mean once again no kill?

[GGG]

yesterday there was 1 kill, we theorise there being 2 teams, so where is the second kill?

Why are you theorizing two teams?

Outside of DGB whose best interests it is to convince us it's multiple faction we just have a gunsmith as evidence of a second faction. For me I'm assuming single faction until we have info to the contrary.

[GGG]

Also recruitment is non normal

[GGG]

Thanks droog, so what we can take from this, is the last mafia faction don't have a killing role, and we will just have to find them in the day phases.

That's what you draw from this?

It seems jailkeeper or successful doctor and 1 faction is much more probable then 1 faction with a night kill and a gunsmith to find the other faction and the other crippled. Another option is scum choosing not to kill someone so we hit mylo instead of Lylo. (Haven't checked the math on it).

Naiomi you have quit scum hunting today and are just doing set up spec. It looks scummy.

[GGG]

Why are you completely discounting only having one faction?
Why aren't you hunting for the second faction you believe to exist.

[GGG]

Why are you completely discounting only having one faction?
Why aren't you hunting for the second faction you believe to exist.

Why are you attacking me if you believe there IS only one faction? Considering I just lynched someone with a role claim? If you have a problem with how lost I am you can say so :I

I don't know anything, you appear like you do know something. The only way you can know there are two factions is if you belong to the other faction. Otherwise you should be in the dark like the rest of us. The problem is that if you belong to the other factions it would be in your best interest to push 1 faction. So that leads me back to you being town.

The above is my problem. I believe you are town but everything you are saying today screams that you know something the town doesn't.

[GGG]

And you're not scum hunting.

_{Your not either... just pointing out how stupid I am like GGG...}

I made an istot/TTH case which no one responded to.

[GGG]

So what's the Chris case again?

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Who's up for a Naiomi wagon

If I had to speculate, You, GGG, and Piantist ... Ironic.. the 3 people I voted, even if one of you was trolling at the time.. and it seems to be from my lack of usefulness :I though I did ignore day 2 after I was like hey, this guy killed, im a one-shot watcher, go lynch... ... but meh.. all the smart people agreed that there was a mafia team despite my lack of ability to describe it.. If I had to suggest scum I'd do GGG and Piantist still.... but I suck so bad right now that I'd feel that If I attempted to suggest such a thing everyone would turn on me

No Naiomi I have you as pretty solid town. You keep doing things to try to convince me you are scum but the day after you validate the DGB lynch I am not getting all paranoid and going after you.

[GGG]

Droogs also sold me on why the gunsmith as decoy also works.

unvote

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Should have read gunsmith as decoy doesn't work

[GGG]

Droogs also sold me on why the gunsmith as decoy also works.

unvote

I'm guessing is because 1444?

No droogs posts, though TTHs is similar, 1432 by droog is the one that has convinced me.

[GGG]

If you do not submit an action before the day ends, it will count as

No Action

.

This points strongly to oc.

VOTE: Originalchris

You are basing this on 1 scum group?

[GGG]

Are

you

still operating from the 1-scum-faction assumption, GGG?

Because if you are, why is Naomi off the table for you?

Droog has convinced me there are two scum factions. I am to wnreading Naomi for her play in general and watching dgb.

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Naiomi, what happened to Munkir?

[/b]@gif can we get a bunch of prods wrote the lurkers [/b]

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I like this channel Delbird train. Comes in focuses directly on a single lynch group and tunnels in. This is perfect mob strategy for the next two days push single scum team and lynch associatives.

VOTE: channeldelbird

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Mink we are better of if scum kills you. Your behaviour in that post is so anti town.
your post essentially states you only care about your survival and not catching scum. Post your reads!!!

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Also dont worry the only reason you get killed now is that you are too town and as we approach Lyle you will be killed because we can't have known townies at lylo.

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Day vig is vigilante. A townie who can kill during the day

Lylo is lynch scum or lose

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Anyone still here? Everyone currently not voting should vote for their suspect so we can get moving

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Declined is a good lynch. We need to narrow down the pool

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Delbird stupid phone

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naomi
make something to discuss by placing your vote somewhere

I'm not really sure where to place my vote right now though.. Im kinda a bit lost, game wise.. some things make me think some people are scum but then there actions sorta pull them back away from it... right now I only have weak suspcions and gut feelings.

Pick one and vote, you were able to do randomly on day one. Today you have much more info.

[GGG]

If you haven't voted for someone by the end of tomorrow you become my lynch target. Everyone needs to get in the game we are letting scum hide.

[GGG]

munks been inactive. Was crazy pianist active around the end of day 2?

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Ok this is most likely a stupid question but why can i see titles under peoples names they surely can't be correct can they?

If so then I think I'm seeing something I'm not suppose to see

[GGG]

Ok this is most likely a stupid question but why can i see titles under peoples names they surely can't be correct can they?

If so then I think I'm seeing something I'm not suppose to see

I'm going to leave this here and see what other people think since nobody commented on it at the time. Munkir's subtitle is Townsperson. He seems inexperienced enough for this post to be a legitimate question. If he weren't town, he wouldn't have asked the question, seeing the contradiction with his own role.

That being said the rest of his posts have virtually no content and I would have had him on my leaning scum list. Not sure how to feel.

I town read this originally

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But if you accept DGB statement of no day talk, then CP comes in sees he paired with a complete newb so he makes him so stupid he's town.

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Crazy pianist last posted on day 2 on dec 7. Then on dec 13 on day 3

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The problem is he was active on site during the day 2 night

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So pianist doesn't fit the theory.

Both Munkir and Chris did not post on site during that time

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Speaking of Christmas Gonna have to LA/VC until the 27th for Christmas :3
Happy Holidays Everyone

Fucking vote first

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Im in for a munkir vote once he claims.

His buddy is CP for the whole mafia under his name thing from early day 1.

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Sorry Thor I missed your question

Yesterday we were working on a lurker case for why we didn't have multiple kills. Munkir had gone quiet but you needed a second lurker for him to be scum with him. The only second lurker over night 2 was your slot. So day 1 droog loses his bulletproof, day 2 no kill is submitted because munk and Chris missed the deadline.

The problem with that is I found no link between ochris and munk so the idea of no kill submitted kind of died. I had munk as too bad to be scum.

As for CDb it was almost Christmas, everyone was lurking so we lynched someone. Not great play but the game was dying.

[GGG]

VOTE: munkair

He was on site and didn't post. Naiomi would be stupid to fake this given shed gotten a lot of town cred from the DGB lynch.

[GGG]

@thor - droog did not claim bulletproof with a hit day 1.

I am inferring that as accounting for one of the no kills from the second faction.

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Thor, I agree the CDB lynch didn't make sense. It really was a get the game moving lynch where the wagon that had votes at the time got lymched. When I say we it was the active people in the thread to which in addition to your list I might add Naiomi though she might have gone quiet by then.

I checked - Munkir did not, so he was scum, catching a lot of conversation pressure, who didn't bother to vote the easy lynch. Okay, I can maybe buy that - but if he's scum I have to admit that basically every experience I have says he would only do that if his scumbuddy was already there.

Thor what are you trying to say here I'm not following.

[GGG]

Thor, are ypu willing to vote Munk based on the watcher claim?

[GGG]

Puts the votes on munk. We won't learn anymore today

[GGG]

The amount of useless crap in this thread is absurd. Before I start making my reads, I need to point a few things out.

Munkir:

If you feel like you can't keep up with this game, please tell the mod you want to replace out. You are making no observations about the game and it seems like you don't understand how the game works. You should probably join a newbie game.

AWA

and

kuror0

: More content please.

Guyinfreezer:

I super appreciate you modding this game. More frequent votecounts would be awesome though.

Ok this is most likely a stupid question but why can i see titles under peoples names they surely can't be correct can they?

If so then I think I'm seeing something I'm not suppose to see

I'm going to leave this here and see what other people think since nobody commented on it at the time. Munkir's subtitle is Townsperson. He seems inexperienced enough for this post to be a legitimate question. If he weren't town, he wouldn't have asked the question, seeing the contradiction with his own role.

That being said the rest of his posts have virtually no content and I would have had him on my leaning scum list. Not sure how to feel.

I like CP better, first he tries to get munkair to replace out. Then he tries to town slip his partner.

[GGG]

So Naomi, even if you think I change my vote too often, can you at least point out which votes of mine you don't think were justified (I'll give you my vote on you as a freebie! )

Say if I did something like this would you think I'm super scummy?

VOTE: Naomi
VOTE: Droog
VOTE: AWA
VOTE: Flubbernugget
VOTE: kuror0
VOTE: Whomping Willow
VOTE: OriginalChris
VOTE: Crazypianist1116
VOTE: Flames
VOTE: Munkir
VOTE: istott
VOTE: GGG
VOTE: Riddleton
VOTE: Flubbernugget

Now I've voted a total of 17 times. That makes me the scummiest player of all, right?

Back to the "I don't have any town reads" statement, just ask, that's all you have to do. I will admit I've pointed out bad things from a lot of people. That doesn't mean I think everyone's scum. As I told OriginalChris, nobody's a perfect player. If you see imperfections, though, you should tell everyone, instead of bottling them up and waiting to unleash them on a single player in a vote.

Hey now, Riddleton, I should be allowed to be sarcastic every once in a while, right? I'm sorry for the barrage of posts but I did make my point, and it didn't really affect anyone because they were all in a row. It's just as easy to read as one large post. And yes, not posting much isn't a scum tell.

crazypianist1116 you so crazy

You defended yourself well and got your point across with me.

VOTE: crazypianist1116

And this sequence with CP got pissed off.

[GGG]

VOTE: crazy pianist

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Why isn't Thor at L-0?

What's your case?

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u srs brah

Just link the fuckin posts. I have my case on the Thor slot. I want your current case on the Thor slot.

[GGG]

u srs brah

Just link the fuckin posts. I have my case on the Thor slot. I want your current case on the Thor slot.

Iso me angrypants

Munkir sucks at mafia, you see this as your partner and want to get a decent team mate. You dont have day talk to coach him. So you try to get him to quit.

You pointed out the townslip though. No one else thought it was a townslip until you posted about it. it was just more stupid play. Lots of scum motivation for doing it.

The second set of quotes shows Munkir vote on you being soft and without logic. The interaction feels newb scum talking to their buddy.

[GGG]

Per dgb there was no day talk.

[GGG]

Thor could be mafia encryptor

This doesnt make any sense how would that help anything?

[GGG]

Did we establish Mafia having daytalk at some stage?

No if you read Day 2 post Naiomi watching DGB DGB states that they had no day talk. There has been nothing to suggest that they do and based on awa DGB interactions at the end of day one I would believe DGBs statement.

[GGG]

Intent to hammer

Lurker case as a reason for no night 2 kill

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VOTE: thor


Yeah but we have a few misses at this point and no on seems to want to move any where else. The game is basically dying so we lynch our way out.

[GGG]

Poor play in my opinion - you analyzed nothing, went on a stale case, and let Willow derp by for a second day running without actually backing up anything.
Lynch them tomorrow or prepare for further mocking in the Dead QT.

Probably but the town has no motivation to do anything and talking to nothing when no one engages isn't exciting. I analyses several things. You and Munkir were off site for the entire night 2. This was better than your whomp refuses to put in a case case. Not as good as my CP is munkirs buddy case but you can't win them all.

[GGG]

Overall in this game for whatever reason this town is lazy and impatient

[GGG]

Why the resistance to put up at.least a bit of a case?

The big give away was the lurker no kill day 2. But i was pretty sure munk was newb town.

Good watching N aiomi, i think we had dgb but Munk was a real good watch. What made you choose him

Munk was your play as newb town intentional?

[GGG]

Your mafia pt is hilarious