Micro 447: Shameless Mafia -- Game Over!

[This Christmas]

Hi

[This Christmas]

VOTE: shos
VOTE: shos
VOTE: shos
VOTE: shos
VOTE: shos
That's a lynch

[This Christmas]

Ha
Ha
Alchemist reminds me of high level alchemy level 59 or 57 or 55 runescape

[This Christmas]

Where
Is
Tiershift's
Slip?

[This Christmas]

Yes

On the contrary, no

[This Christmas]

^Are you actually admitting to being scum with Dodgy?

VOTE: TierShift

Um
Wut?
Uscumbro

[This Christmas]

lets kick the game!!!

VOTE: Aneninen

My momma says haste makes waste

[This Christmas]

Re: Alchemist

20 and 22 are redonkulous

[This Christmas]

ToonFighter, I've only seen one episode but mass claiming is probably not the best idea. Why did you suggest it?

The conversation between TierShift, Alchemist, dodgy56, and Aienen seems based on some meta reads?

I can see why scum would talk about another players scum meta if they were to set them up for a lynch but it seems a bit reaching?

hold up there yo, why those questions in that passive voice

scum are talking the talk
walking the walk

[This Christmas]

i sense sarcasm
amirite

[This Christmas]

scumreads are too hip n cool..
fo shos
y is anen town you say?

[This Christmas]

Not gonna happen.

it can only happen if you make it happen
truth

[This Christmas]

the more explanations the merrier Santa Claus becomes

[This Christmas]

No
I do not know a whomping willow

[This Christmas]

That fat guy doesn't exist, you stupid Gallaghar

Only scum make such hasty assumptions
Scumbag

[This Christmas]

Lol

[This Christmas]

Yay! Back to serious now that

[This Christmas]

That's not what he meant

[This Christmas]

no comment

[This Christmas]

UNVOTE:

[This Christmas]

You on the clock, your move

(expired on 2015-02-24 22:08:52)

[This Christmas]

VOTE: Toon

your time has run out

[This Christmas]

VOTE: toon
VOTE: toon
VOTE: toon
VOTE: toon

turbo lynched

[This Christmas]

ye i wuz super stressed last week n so my posts were rly hyperactive/silly, but this week shud b different u know

[This Christmas]

Well the thing that I'm a little burned out on is how less times town can get a scum lynched on day one and ends up lynching town. Why is the ratio so horrible?

answer this question yourself thx

[This Christmas]

what made u compelled 2 post that

[This Christmas]

Ur biological clock
Leads you to wonderland

[This Christmas]

VOTE: shos

Sayonara

[This Christmas]

shos y isn't ur professed scumlean on this christmas accompanied by a vote

[This Christmas]

mateys, i haz never heard of whomping willow. plz stahp with that

shos i dont understand your dismissal of tiershift's case. he has outlined it properly
your isoing was also thoroughly incomplete. no vote or direction to speak for it

[This Christmas]

Hey sorry I'm back

[This Christmas]

Lmao I never unvotrd

unvote[/b

you still haven't
why would you like to unvote tiershift

[This Christmas]

Jimmy Steve Lishman

[This Christmas]

I has never watched shameless fwiw

[This Christmas]

what is up with wagons that aren't even possible being this close to deadline? that awakens the sleeping enthusiast in me

seriously!!!!

VOTE: Toon Fighter

and estival (the bad alt slipper who keeps posting as 'elusive') - seriously - is "revoting" tiershift when that still is L-3

Lynch -2

[This Christmas]

I'm not going to vote who I think is possibly town, no matter what.

have fun with that philosophy this close to deadline
i can actually understand where shos frustration is coming from with these late votes

[This Christmas]

no lynching is giving up a mislynch
lynching town is giving up a mislynch, but info is given with a flip

Estival, you were ALREADY voting TS(vanity wagon again btw,) so why did you feel the need to revote? Whyare you there anyway?

preach

[This Christmas]

TierShift's post 64 seems town.

ArcAngel, if I don't follow or understand the explanation I ask again. Ergo, I don't follow the explanation.

I believe Toon Fighter's claim. Are you claiming mickey?

Yes, ArcAngel I checked Role PM and that is what it states. I wonder if Mod would give fake claims to scum or keep thing simple? We could technically then mass claim to win?

k so ur scumread went byebye after the claim

It would help shos if you were on a wagon that might have a chance to be lynched. I'm fine with TierShift. Maybe Anen.

VOTE: TierShift

you want him gone because his case on shos seemed bad. town and scum both make bad cases. i dont think the case was bad

[This Christmas]

How does This Christmas know its a mislynch?

How?

i was arguing with you saying youd rather no lynch than vote someone you think is POSSIBLY town
it was a hypothetical

even if you think someone is town, it is NOT confirmed town and lynching gives more info than a no lynch would. a no lynch is giving a free mislynch to scum

I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYONE USE THE DAY ONE MISLYNCH FOR INFO> POINT ME TO ONE GAME WHERE THAT INFO AS YOU CLAIM BROKE THE GAME> I AM SICK AND TIRED OF USELESS AND POINTLESS ARGUMENTS LIKE "Info"

GUESS WHAT ELSE GIVES US INFO? THE TOWN DEATH TONIGHT. NO NEED TO HELP SCUM.

please stop caps locking or else im not reading any of your posts
scum choose which flip is given tonight. a lynch today would be chosen by the majority. big difference.

[This Christmas]

This Christmas just proved its scum I think.

That was a scum slip. Town doesn't think "mislynch" for sure it wonders.

youve called me IT two times now. Please stop. thank you

[This Christmas]

no lynching is giving up a mislynch
lynching town is giving up a mislynch, but info is given with a flip

you are twisting these words.

this is a factual statement.
and youre just exploding over it. anyways, this conversation is done. if other players come in and vote TS, i'll join in. until then, 10 hours to go

it's compromise time, not reluctance to vote anyone who is possibly town in one's eyes (without factual merit of a town flip)

[This Christmas]

Point me to one finished game where the first day "lynch" was used as valuable information that led town to scum. Point to one game that shows irrefutably that a "mislynch" is better than "no lynch."

Also for someone who has been trolling around, nice to see you wake up just now. Is TierShift or Alchemist your buddy?

I do as I want, deal with it.

i dont have a buddy, and this game has been boring. i dont even remember anything alchemist has posted.

[This Christmas]

You have no gender pronoun lol so don't get all high and might or try to pretend to be a whiny baby now. Are you scum? Are you?
IT.

so, you can use THEY. It refers to a thing.

[This Christmas]

What is your case on TF? WHen looking at him in ISO he seems to be trying to make sense of things such as the TS\Anen\fight.

Why would he claim or slip his flavor as scum? What purpose does it serve?

i havent looked at what TF claimed, i assume its something flavor or info that you have that clears him apparently

i didnt read any slippage

[This Christmas]

VOTE: Tiershift

[This Christmas]

Roles? I claimed character already

[This Christmas]

Jimmy Steve Lishman

also im so relieved estival isnt here to tunnel me

[This Christmas]

well, not tunnel but be pushy and loud

[This Christmas]

workin on reads

[This Christmas]

Huh? Who is the town block?

[This Christmas]

Alchemist and shos

[This Christmas]

VOTE: alchemist

[This Christmas]

Arc claim

[This Christmas]

VOTE: shos

Scumbag

[This Christmas]

Only reason he's alive is that last ditch claim

[This Christmas]

Town - arc, droog

Tiershift

Anen
Toon

Scum - shos, alchemist

[This Christmas]

I'm going shopping this weekend

[This Christmas]

Arcs effort to methodically figure out the game and its flavor felt natural
I don't feel good about this lynch.

The way the lynch was being rammed down does not look good

[This Christmas]

VOTE: no lynch

[This Christmas]

anen, claim

[This Christmas]

Vanilla townie

And character is whatever Steve something what's his face

[This Christmas]

Jimmy-Steve Lishman

[This Christmas]

I don't remember
I might not have had any good reason. Why not no-lynch?

[This Christmas]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

There's something that I don't like.
If all claims are real, it'd mean that the town has (1) a 1–shot Tracker (confirmed), (2) a Voyeur, (3) a Gunsmith and (4) a 1–shot Commuter. The scums have in this case a Roleblocker.
Wouldn't it be a bit unbalanced?

who suggested there's a roleblocker?

[This Christmas]

anen i dont like that comment

[This Christmas]

(hint: he is the scum RB)

oh it was you who suggested it. anen must have taken that literally

also yesterdays hammer before arc could gather herself was saddening. i didnt cry but i feel like i should have shed a tear or two

[This Christmas]

i just looked up what shameless is about. it's about a group of children who prosper despite lack of parenting or something.

[This Christmas]

Post-edit: Shos was blocked twice. Scums must have a Roleblocker. If town had a Roleblocker it would be WAY unbalanced. 5 PRs for the town? I can't imagine any PR combination which could compensate that in a Micro.

oh okay. um i thought tier claimed he blocked shos already twice as a voyeur.

anyways whats my fate for today? this day is taking forever

[This Christmas]

what's your take on the Arcangel wagon and its parts?
im lazy and just kinda want this day to be through tbh. 10 more days...

[This Christmas]

no lynch was because almost every wagon was impossible save for shos, and then he claimed a PR so everyone scrambled, and people disagreed on views until it was too late

[This Christmas]

Yeah I thought it was Tier the counter to shos

Bad memory.
Tbh my play is handing the win to scum on a silver platter, but I'm just too disenchanted and need a break after this game

[This Christmas]

Not disenchanted, but worn out is a better word

[This Christmas]

I'm leaning Tier-Shos team taking control. And I don't have the IQ to understand what you mean by how I placed my reads or how I interacted with Toon Fighter

I did that all on instinct.

[This Christmas]

If I did a countdown, it was probably because toon was l -1 or refusing to claim at intent to hammer

[This Christmas]

Also I'm not replacing out.

and even if I did want to, I would never especially so close to game end
That would be terrible for the replacement who inherits this slot, and the game

[This Christmas]

Scum haven't attempted to kill Shos apparently, and are making weird kills
That suggests experienced confident scum

droog kill, really? That is my rx

[This Christmas]

I don't know what the plan is. But scum are in total control. They are earning this win. I'm not doing enough. End of

[This Christmas]

That wasn't an insult, shos. How is saying you're smarter an insult.

Tier I don't know if that's balanced. Scum and town both seem weak

[This Christmas]

Oh estival pushed droog and me calling us trolls
I didn't know he was obvtown

[This Christmas]

Oh estival pushed droog and me calling us trolls
I didn't know he was obvtown

[This Christmas]

Droog was lynchable
Also that's not even what I meant
Anyways I'm not speaking about that anymore

Stop asking me to replace out. It's not happening
I am responding and being spontaneous, even if reading is not happening atm

[This Christmas]

Are you freaking out

[This Christmas]

I'm here. Internet problems. Don't have the energy to "put up resistance"

And the "associative interactions" being brought up by multiple players I have no response to. They are probably valid but I haven't checked.

[This Christmas]

"All these factors make me think that TC is scum, and that he's being bussed, with the possibility of him being bussed having been discussed before hand during a Night Phase. The only way he's not getting bussed here"

And you imply scum don't have daytalk, and you infer that how? Lol

[This Christmas]

Process of elimination and me being in a lynchpool makes sense
Saying I've fencesat makes sense.
Saying my interactions have been awkward to nonexistent makes sense.

I have nothing to "resist" with the cases against me.
Also accuracy in lylo for town depends on townies towning it up. I am not doing that, and if being generous I am unreadable or null at best.

[This Christmas]

To follow that up, saying my self-deprecation is scummy would make senses
Saying I'm intentionally doing nothing helpful would make sense, despite that it's not intentional. I'm drained right now and I'm talking at least.
Arguing and saying that's a weak response or excuse would make sense
Saying I'm scum AtEing would make sense

But I'm not scum. But cases all make sense. I hope that clears things up.

[This Christmas]

Bedtime now, seeya later.

[This Christmas]

Anen and Alch if the Tier/shos combo is town

[This Christmas]

anen dodgy, and alch is instinct

[This Christmas]

concerns of tier/shos conspiracy have alleviated

[This Christmas]

good news is i think im good to go for this game, yessir

Anen ISO first because he's a wagon

Spoiler: getting a handle on the narrative of this game

2. Making exciting a game by shooting a conf-townie? ^_^ Okay, here's something else. Realizing that a scum was fake-claiming at L–1 by analysing his parallel online activity.

If Tiershift gets lynched and he flips town (I don't think it'll happen but what if I'm an idiot in this game?), I'll be able to move on and start doing something useful. If I get lynched, I'll flip town (yes, you can't be sure about this but this will happen) and two things can happen later. If Tiershift's scum, he still can be caught later (via investigation, confirming townies, interaction, whatever). Maybe together with his partner. If Tiershift's town too, by lynching me the town can get rid of a player whose presence is detrimental.
Either lynch can reveal plenty of things about others too (VCA, interactions, etc.)

I'm pretty much aware of the fact that I can't imagine any possibilities withouht a scum-Tiershift. (I'm not sure whether it is called conf-biasing or tinfoiling or something else.)
I also understand that some of you are scumreading me because of that.
Regardless of your reads on me I don't think I'll ever be able to townread Tiershift in this game.

So, for me it's a kind of "either you or me" situation.
Therefore, if most of you think that I may be right about him, let's lynch Tiershift. If you think I'm a scum deathtunnelling him, lynch me.

you werent making sure you have your bearings straight before going down this Tier rabbit hole

Way too much ISOing to do, so I'm skipping the middle part for now to get to the "case" on TS.

As for Tiershift.

(1) He acts as if there had been only the Page1 slip about him. He's been posting many times things like

"either you think it was a slip or not and if not, you have nothing against me"

. This, in this form hasn't been true for a long time.

(2) He keeps misrepresenting me, I pointed out it eg. in my last post.

(3) As I explained a couple of days ago, he can be scum with our without Shos.

(4) He launches a Setup speculation. Scums usually do that.

(5) Despite he said many times that I was scumhunting by finding the team before getting a scumflip, he's been doing the same with ThisChristmas and me.

(6) His style. I saw that in a game where he was scum. He's much more "grumpy", eg. suggesting ThisChristmas to replace out.

I know that I could have written more about this but (1) I'm tired IRL and (2) I'm a bit frustrated because it seems that noone takes my case against TierShift too seriously.

I don't have time to respond everything now, but I must point this out: the scums are lining up so as to get me lynched.

Everyone, who's town: assume for a short while at least that I'm town and check who thinks that I'm scum. Check their ISOs next. The scums are there.

(And I'm pretty sure that TierShift is one of them.)

Remember: it's almost sure that they're only ONE single mislynch from winning.

I just looked at Page 1 and I Don't see a slip. I don't know why you're remarking that scums are lining up to get you lynched. Leave that trash-posting for me to do because that's what I say. Just kidding!

And I just read that you're going to explain why Tier is scum since you say it's not the slip that's causing you to scumread him. I don't know if I or you are misreading.

I also don't understand what you meant by how either Shos or Tier has to logically be scum. I don't think they're together, because I think if they were scum together, I think they are in decent enough positions where they don't need to put each other at risk like that with what they're doing today.

For me, too much information can be a burden. This game, it isn't the case, I have just been extremely demotivated. I think you're null because I think there's a barrier that keeps me from getting your stances clear. But your play has been loads better than mine *laugh*

When you remarked that you feel like scum are lining up your lynch, I want to know what you think about me saying that you haven't generated discussions and then followed them up after letting them manifest.

Off to read other people's ISOs. Like I said I should be really active the rest of the way. Luckily I'm still alive LOL

[This Christmas]

Basically, there's like a wall in your communication. Being away doesn't really help with that, so I can understand that y'know.?

I feel so invested right now.

tell me about it. I am so invested I Could cry

Why I think anen is a good lynch? Well, the fact that both shos and TS are supporting it, that the claim does not work well in the setup after my analysis this afternoon, my previous scum read on him came back, and, damn, am i not allowed to change my views? Also, have you looked at the way anen reacted to the (building of interest in the) wagon? It raised some scum-radar hairs in the back of my head. Mostly that. I'd rather support a popular lynch that I actually believe might be scum than a player where I am not so sure and has no popular force behind.

in all seriousness, what did Anen claim again? I'm looking again for that. How does it not make sense? Again, mine didn't make sense apparently because of WHO my character is, so knowing that, I Don't really hold cases based on "his flavor doesn't match" with high regard. If it's his claim, I understand but there are always red herrings.

OH sorry. So it looks like Anen claimed commuter. Commuter, voyeur, gun smith, 1 or 2 shot tracker are the claims? Anyways, commuter if limited kinda negates the tracker.

Voyeur is Tier, and his role seems powerful enough so that town isn't super weak, even if the tracker and commuter are limited (I'm guessing the commuter is)

Focus, guys. After my analysis I am more confused than ever. All I know is that TS is more likely town than scum, shos is 99% town, and between the other 3 scum is somewhere. Ranked by most likely to least:

anen
Alch
TC

But GAH! This game! I feel so invested right now. And the thought of guessing right today and having to suffer through two more weeks of this... OMG I CANT EVEN

how is it suffering when you're actually engaged? i hate to say this, but do you know how bad i would kill to be in your position of being caught up and engaged and in the moment? would be so much more fun that way

[This Christmas]

As for ThisChistmas.

Plenty of nulls, for a long time. Maybe that Toon-vote is a null too? (140 and around).
Promises a change in 167 but nothing really happens.
The Shos-vote in 232 is without any reasons.
The ToonFighter vote in 395 is similar. Just as 431 for TierShift. And Alchemist in 600... (Need I go on with this vote-analysis?)
Dodged Estival's question in 407.
633 is a "readlist". Yet again, no content with it.
Having read 756 again, I don't understand the question. (Shos was the one who talked about getting roleblocked first.)
760's

"anyways whats my fate for today?"

is another post which makes no sense.
Also, 801's

"I don't know what the plan is. But scum are in total control. They are earning this win. I'm not doing enough. End of"

– ???!
867 – and now he has internet problems. He was shopping before. And being busy IRL before that. Isn't it weird?

Summary.
Surprisingly very little content. Basicly nothing town-ish. The only problem is that I've seen such useless townies before, just as lurkscums. If it weren't for our bad situation I'd join this wagon (if we still didn't lynch TierShift) but now I don't know what to think.

Very inconclusive. props to combing through the game and my posts. im reserving judgment until i understand WHY you are voting tiershift right now. your posts seem very impulsive Given how you've been full throttle at times iwth Tier, even proclaiming he slipped.

but if you just looked at my ISO, how can you say "i dont know what to think."

So, you either think I'm overwhelmed sheep and town who does squat. Or, I'm lurkscum.

i dont really see Anen-scum, either im gullible or he just is lost and doesnt have the fundamental grasps of whats going on in this game cos IRL

back in a bit, breakfast time

[This Christmas]

anen, what is you opinion about TS's claim? Does that make him more or less scum in your POV?

TierShift, I was just thinking about your claim. Why did you target shos N1?

TS is in a very bad light here. Wouldn't be upset if the wagon went down on him.

Wait. Why? Because he voted Anen while everyone was twiddling their fingers without voting in a likely MYLO? A vote wouldn't lead to a quickhammer in that case. He did not just jump on a wagon on a whim. So what did you not like about his vote?

ugghhhh shos you are the one not talking about my suspicions

PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT YOUR CONSIDERATIONS SHOS THEN I'LL CONVINCE YOU OF THE SCUMTEAM AFTERWARDS

Yeah, I'm ready for this to go down. TC obviously isn't even going to try to defend himself or solve the game. Anen has the knee-jerk reaction of discrediting me and basically says he's pretty sure I'm scum and that the case is soon to follow, but two days later, he admits he hasn't even read the game.

VOTE: anen

These are the posts before you called TS scum. The vote was just so rough and awkward, and Tier has been bragging about his completed scum games. I don't see him-scum that much.

I don't know what ot make of the meta he brought up once Shos voted him, but Tier even if you think he was baby-talking Shos, was actually participating in some degree of reasonableness in that exchange in response to the vote. So that's another net positive for me.

[This Christmas]

Toon Fighter
shos
Alchemist21

^these people to look at, or at least so that I can remember bits and pieces of their posts and tones, etc.

To start, I will give one adjective by first glance of their ISOs.

alchemist - calm, passive

shos - delicious, judgmental

toon fighter - jittery, stressed-out Type A personality type

[This Christmas]

this helps me visualize them in my mind when I look at their ISOs after I eat.

alchemist calm passive
shos delicious judged
toon fighter stressed out type A

[This Christmas]

got stuff to do for meditation/tai chi class tonight, shit i forgot about this for a while
but i did not forget about this, i will be here

woah alchemist's iso is so remarkably... unremarkable with the exception of a few pointed paragraphs towards Tier and Anen
he does write that he tends to choose to focus on certain players

to recap

- so in #782 he has Toon and me as scum. that is still his stance. he has everyone else as town, including Anen because...??? - edit: ah found it. spoilering some stuff for my future reference

- early in the game voted shos at one point for refusing to read enough and get in the game
- today he has spent time pointing out interactions and exploring pairs that could lead to "teams"

SO

looking at his reason for strong-townreading Anen - based on him being able to relate to Anen's paranoia:

how does that signal town intent at all??? there are more creative ways if scum to spin an Anen read, but this?

im also a bit flustered by a few other things, but yeah this is basically defending Anen for virtually no reason. and if you really believe Anen is town, you arent making your vote count for something so far all day, and trying to advance a lynch

ESPECIALLY considering you and others are in agreement that this day will likely end in a lynch (not a no-lynch)

Spoiler: random stuff to help me remember what i just looked at - dont click please

Respond to me re: anen

Is this @me? Tbh his tunnel isn't out of the ordinary imo. I argue with my scumreads a lot when I'm in tunnel mode. Actually, looking at how he has cased TF and been voting elsewhere, I'd say he's been lighter about tunneling than I usually am when I tunnel. As far as the perceived slip goes, he hasn't really been contradictory about it. Yeah, he thinks you slipped, but that doesn't mean he'll get others to see it that way (and he probably won't unless one of you actually flips scum because it's a highly contextual point). He's still scumreading you, which makes sense from the POV if him thinking you slipped.

@Anen, I do feel I need to point this out though. The only way what Tier said was a slip is if he's scum with the Dodgy/Droog slot. You're considering AA9 and TF scum possibilities, so you already have some belief that you could be wrong. I need you to take a step back, clear your head, and ask yourself if you can still keep pushing your point against TierShift knowing that the slip only makes sense in a highly specific situation. Remember how I deathtunnled Siv in our last game together? I feel like you're doing the same thing to TierShift, and it could potentially be just as damaging to the Town.

As for ThisChistmas.

Plenty of nulls, for a long time. Maybe that Toon-vote is a null too? (140 and around).
Promises a change in 167 but nothing really happens.
The Shos-vote in 232 is without any reasons.
The ToonFighter vote in 395 is similar. Just as 431 for TierShift. And Alchemist in 600... (Need I go on with this vote-analysis?)
Dodged Estival's question in 407.
633 is a "readlist". Yet again, no content with it.
Having read 756 again, I don't understand the question. (Shos was the one who talked about getting roleblocked first.)
760's

"anyways whats my fate for today?"

is another post which makes no sense.
Also, 801's

"I don't know what the plan is. But scum are in total control. They are earning this win. I'm not doing enough. End of"

– ???!
867 – and now he has internet problems. He was shopping before. And being busy IRL before that. Isn't it weird?

Summary.
Surprisingly very little content. Basicly nothing town-ish. The only problem is that I've seen such useless townies before, just as lurkscums. If it weren't for our bad situation I'd join this wagon (if we still didn't lynch TierShift) but now I don't know what to think.

Sounds like you agree with the rest of us here for the most part. I've seen Town be useless lurksacks too, but they've always come alive at lylo and meaningfully contributed to the Town. TC hasn't done that. He's pretty much derped around, and I think as Town he would show a lot more concern at all these scumreads on him at this point in the game.

As for Tiershift.

(1) He acts as if there had been only the Page1 slip about him. He's been posting many times things like

"either you think it was a slip or not and if not, you have nothing against me"

. This, in this form hasn't been true for a long time.

(2) He keeps misrepresenting me, I pointed out it eg. in my last post.

(3) As I explained a couple of days ago, he can be scum with our without Shos.

(4) He launches a Setup speculation. Scums usually do that.

(5) Despite he said many times that I was scumhunting by finding the team before getting a scumflip, he's been doing the same with ThisChristmas and me.

(6) His style. I saw that in a game where he was scum. He's much more "grumpy", eg. suggesting ThisChristmas to replace out.

I know that I could have written more about this but (1) I'm tired IRL and (2) I'm a bit frustrated because it seems that noone takes my case against TierShift too seriously.

It's kinda hard to tell that you had more against Tier than the slip, since a lot of the arguments you had against him went back to it.

The first things you said were misreps look more like a semantics thing with what is defined as a slip; I'm not sure about the one about not reading the thread though.

Setup spec is pretty null imo because I've seen plenty of players do it because that's their thing (i.e. Mathdino and Titus).

Is number 5 referring to a post before this phase? Players tend to start looking for associatives between living players at lylo because they're trying to make sure they get scum. Open 584 is a recent example - we had flipped 1/3 of the scums, but we were still looking for associatives between living players to try and catch the remaining two.

I'll need to look back at your reasons for (3), and I wouldn't know about (6).

Also, what is your current opinion on Toonfighter?

My strongest Townread is Anen. I know people don't like his tunneling on Tier, but he's shown paranoia about it that I'm pretty sure comes from Town because I've been there plenty of times before. (Seriously though, Anen you do need to ease up and focus elsewhere. At least consider where you reads will be at if Tier flips Town.)

Shos is a Townread of mine now, partly because of his gunsmith claim, but more because he has the same idea about the Tier wagon that I do. I'm seeing things more his way in regards to the flavorclaiming, and I'm sure if he hadn't been forced to claim yesterday he would be refusing to nameclaim now too.

Tiershift is another Townread because of that EoD wagon. Like I said before I'm sure scum would have liked that lynch pushed because he was V/LA and couldn't defend himself.

Droog/This Christmas are the ones I feel are the scum candidates on the Tier wagon by the nature of how they joined the wagon (no explanation for voting a V/LA player is super scummy). It actually doesn't help that they're both breathing down my meck right now. (Inb4 omgus accusations)

AA9 is a scumread for the reasons I've already given. She's almost certain the game can be broken in some manner by flavorclaiming. I think she wants the nameclaims because she can match them to PRs, so this is a form of rolefishing from her. It might not be so bad if there was an attempt tohunt with other means as well, but she's been super focused on the flavor claims here.

[This Christmas]

you can repeat all day long and yesterday that you think TC and TF are scum

your choices are either sheep a townread (Tier) onto a wagon you dont believe in, or make your own

and an intent to vote, even, would make your voice that much louder to advance the lynch

[This Christmas]

Why I think anen is a good lynch? Well, the fact that both shos and TS are supporting it, that the claim does not work well in the setup after my analysis this afternoon, my previous scum read on him came back, and, damn, am i not allowed to change my views? Also, have you looked at the way anen reacted to the (building of interest in the) wagon? It raised some scum-radar hairs in the back of my head. Mostly that. I'd rather support a popular lynch that I actually believe might be scum than a player where I am not so sure and has no popular force behind.

Finally, I excluded anen before because the claim looked plausible. But, when I look more into it, I just don't think it fits as well. How does a commuter interact with a voyeur, Gunsmith, 1-shot tracker? It just makes their roles useless. Plus with the RB and mafia? 1-shot commuter seems like a neutral to negative town utility in this setup. At it's best, turns odds to evens. At it's worst, ruins a Gunsmith's nad/or voyeur night's work, makes the tracker literally a VT. Finally, thinking like a scum, a two scum team whit both fakeclaiming VT would look odd. I think one of the scums would fakeclaim. And the most likely of the two (between TS and anen) is anen.

That's pretty much it for my case on anen. What do you think?

ok something to think about, because im not done reading your ISO. and then i gotta read the actual game in its whole form

ok so you pushed an Anen lynch in the last few hours of Day 1, it looks like. you voted shos at one point on D1. youve professed Anen as a scumread recently (and prior to that).

you havent necessarily been joining popular wagons for most of this game (i think?) - like the switches onto Tier and Anen last minute Day 1 (Which were weird considering DL).

but it's like, let me wait no. i have one question first

when you decided to veer off course D1, were you thinking harder because there were scummy people like me on the Day 1 wagon(s)?

And PLEASE FFS DO NOT NAMECLAIM PEOPLE THAT IS STUPUD AND ONLY HELPS SCUM

If the game is well designed and the scum have fakeclaims and the names are not automatic giveaways, nameclaim should never be a liability, for either town or scum. That is also why I suggested nameclaims, I thought it might lead to a more interesting and 'in-character' game, but it apparently just blew up in my face.

So explain to me again, why did you, as a VT Carl(which fits, supppsedly) feel the need to suggest massclaim and nameclaim?

See above. I wanted to have some fun and, if it was badly designed, break the game for town (assuming every gallagher is town).

How the fuck am i still the leading wagon.

Im a gunsmith. Please can we proceed with lynching TF?
AA9 and those voting TS are automatically scumreads of mine if I disregard the game, btw, juat becauae they posted this close to DL and started anoyher vanity wagom. Scum benefit from NL.

Id like to be watched tpnight.

In your other post you said you would do anything for Ian. Does that include anything role related?

Looking at your claim, I don't feel comfortable lynching you anymore. I think you are telling the truth. However, TS is not here and can't claim, I don't want to vote myself and it's very late for starting a new wagon. I'll try that though. I prefer NL than lynching you, but Anen is my other option.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Anen

Hope we can get this going in the last few hours

Bah. I see Anen isn't happening.

unvote, vote: TS

(better than lynching shos, I think TS might be town, but it's better to lynch him rather than shos)

shos, even if I give you the point that massclaim was a bad idea, that was your whole case against me. I don't think it was the most 'scummy' (I don't think it was, but you apparently do) thing that happened today. Please, consider lynching Tiershift

[This Christmas]

very, VERY interesting

this day would end on an Anen wagon if TC did nothing
this means he is not scum, OR scum with anen

which means Anen is probscum

UGH i am going down this hole and responding to this but i dont really want to

Anen's play has been aloof this game. Who knows why, or if scum or not scum.

unless you think another wagon will suddenly spring up because I (the not-townread-est player outside of MAYBE Anen) started posting, and then Anen will actually escape the lynch because I don't really see Anen-scum. that doesnt seem likely at all

im basically dead if Anen actually flips scum. But I mean, then I have to fight Day 4, so I hope Anen flips scum if he's lynched. And I might be forced to hammer or risk another no lynch today since likely 4 v 2. that would be a real pickle.

so my starting to post because IRL really is coincidental. It has been looking like Anen is the wagon of destiny since at least 5 days ago when it was between Anen and me. so those two things are unrelated

[This Christmas]

I still think it's Christmas and ToonFighter.

Anen could be scum, but I just don't see a reason for scum Anen to be pushing a scumread on Tiershift the whole game without ever once seeming to doubt himself. I think that given the circumstances, scum would have at least acted as if they were reconsidering the read to avoid drawing too much attention to themselves.

VOTE: ALCHEMIST

so, you bring nothing new except more lip service to what players you see as scum, considering the lack of comments on how im behaving. you're one of anen's strongest proponents and you're clinging to THIS for your townread in MYLO. that doesnt feel like effort into reading someone

Also, what is your current opinion on Toonfighter?

It'll turn out as I catch up with the game.
Since it's a MyLo I'm sure at least one scum is pushing my wagon hard, maybe both.

In general, I've been thinking a lot why I find it hard to defend myself. Then I realized that the whole case against me is... not organic at all.
Logically, Shos can only be scum with TierShift but ToonFighter's push may also be a "going for the easy lynch".
If so, the other scum is townreading me, hoping that there will be another player joining the case against me. Or hoping that there will be a panic-wagon as the Deadline gets closer... if so, This Christmas just started shadowing my wagon a couple of posts ago...

i feel like you're being purposely obtuse. and also going "scum are driving my wagon! 1 or 2!" whenever there is pressure, so i cant take any of these bits seriously
youre flinging paranoia like i was with "omg tier and shos could be together"

Anen, what do you think of the reactions to your "tier case?"

[This Christmas]

i dont think it's worth it to worry about shos at this point unless he's with tier

my play has been erratic, anen's has too. one second youre up, one second youre down, then youre posting. that makes players hard to read IMO. a lot has actually ahppened in this day phase, so clinging to a read without commenting on how i handled responses in my reread is lame

later.

on another topic, i think alchemist is scum. the second one... not feeling great about that atm

Focus, guys. After my analysis I am more confused than ever. All I know is that TS is more likely town than scum, shos is 99% town, and between the other 3 scum is somewhere. Ranked by most likely to least:

anen
Alch
TC

But GAH! This game! I feel so invested right now. And the thought of guessing right today and having to suffer through two more weeks of this... OMG I CANT EVEN

hurry up then or don't bother

I'd put my money on a Anen-Alch scum team

substantiate

[This Christmas]

TC's latest posts look like a whole lot of nothing. It's more of an IIoA than anything, and at the end of it I'm still not sure what his opinion of the others are (exept an Anen-prob-not-scum read).

As for you Anen case, I did respond to it. I'm the only one who responded to it. Your case wasn't much, just saying you liked this, didn't like that, and felt he was a different person D2. There was no elaboration on most of your points; your strongest point was that Anen and TC had no meaningful interactions, but I'd say the same could be true for any other player and TC.

TC's latest posts look like a whole lot of nothing. It's more of an IIoA than anything, and at the end of it I'm still not sure what his opinion of the others are (exept an Anen-prob-not-scum read).

As for you Anen case, I did respond to it. I'm the only one who responded to it. Your case wasn't much, just saying you liked this, didn't like that, and felt he was a different person D2. There was no elaboration on most of your points; your strongest point was that Anen and TC had no meaningful interactions, but I'd say the same could be true for any other player and TC.

Shos-read doesn't matter unless you think Tier's protecting shos. Tier - lean town.

Anen-stubborn and unreadable, no idea.
Toon - ? pending me looking into that, which im doing

Alch scum

[This Christmas]

Anen's definitely getting worse in my mind with the delayed explanations, and you may be right about him, but why do we need to wagon him today when everyone's sure TC is scum?

Ok, I don't like Anen asking for others' opinions on whether TC slipped or not without giving his own opinion.

Toon's been discrediting claims this whole time. Also, TC's naked votes on Toon earlier in the game look like a distancing attempt to me, which I think is more indicative of scum than a lack of interaction (scum often have zero interaction with a Townie or two as well).

[This Christmas]

Anen is hard to read and he won't directly interact with me.

[This Christmas]

shit, just remembered estival/elusive was saying something about TF's claim being town or something.

im making a list of player claims atm then

[This Christmas]

If TF's claim is real then he, I and ArcAngel are a solid townblock. I have no reason to believe otherwise.

Toon Fighter * Carl
shos * Mickey
Aneninen *
Alchemist21 *
droog *
This Christmas *
TierShift
estival * Ian
ArcAngel9 *

Fill it up and put in yours as well

Votecount 1.13

shos

(4): Alchemist21, TierShift, This Christmas, Toon Fighter

(L-1)

Toon Fighter

(3): shos, estival, ArcAngel9

TierShift

(2): Aneninen, droog

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-07 20:04:00)

TierShift is V/LA until Sunday evening.

Am Carl Gallagher. Am VT. Nothing more to claim :p

yeah this is sort of unreliable. VT and flavor.

VOTE: unvote

SOmeone might have mentioned it here but are flavor claims and alignments completely separate or does flavor\alignment mean something?

Unvote

Since Toon has taken a Gallagher name and we know all Gallagher's are town, he may be town unless if someone counter claim him.

never mind. WOAH

okay, so all Gallaghers are town?

[This Christmas]

Yep. What alchemist pointed out looks like a slip for real no joke

VOTE: Toon Fighter

Anen, I'm not opposed to no lynching. I brought up NL early in the day and it wasn't well accepted to say the least

[This Christmas]

Anen, is there a reason you failed to answer the question about whether you commuted yet?

This is what I meant by your posts being deliberately obtuse

[This Christmas]

Start your own wagon then with your indignance that tier slipped or whatever

Instead of doing what I've done and worrying "wow TC might eventually vote me, woe is me"

Don't care if I'm being hypocritical. This day doesn't look likely to end in a lynch anyways, might as well cast a vote

[This Christmas]

And seriously, who said "everyone doesn't believe you"
You're twisting what people's actual views are as a generalization

There is at least one other player town reading you, and others on the fence

Ugh, playing the victim card like I was

[This Christmas]

Okay.

You haven't voted Tier today, yet you're sayinf you've pushed his lynch today and you think you've failed and would fail if you tried again another day.
Yet it is clear that Shos at one point voted Tier today.
He is not a universal townread.

[This Christmas]

What do You think of a no lynch today???? Since you're asking others the same Q

[This Christmas]

Not hammering

[This Christmas]

So freakinf omg Anen TC are scum together
Can go down the drain

Bye!

[This Christmas]

Uh, I'm not sure I have one, shos. Lemme go look.

Alch, who's scum?

I still think it's Christmas and ToonFighter.

Anen could be scum, but I just don't see a reason for scum Anen to be pushing a scumread on Tiershift the whole game without ever once seeming to doubt himself. I think that given the circumstances, scum would have at least acted as if they were reconsidering the read to avoid drawing too much attention to themselves.

And this guy just quick voted Tier. Just saying lol

[This Christmas]

Yeah it's confirmed that either you're scum or it's Anen-Alch.

Alch votes and then disappears. Maybe he's hoping I'll impulsively hammer regardless of his alignment. Yeah not happening... Weak

[This Christmas]

he saw that I couldn't be lynched easily today and decided going with someone he's not even mentioning as his top three scum reads

Wth

UNVOTE:

[This Christmas]

Whatever
I'm going to do a nice read this afternoon

[This Christmas]

Please

Who can prove anything in this game, exactly?

[This Christmas]

What do you think of Alch's vote, Anen?

[This Christmas]

Quickpost because I'm off.

ToonFighter is either a townie misreading the whole game or the other scum.

Lol.

[This Christmas]

Shos I will vote who you decide to vote at DL, since it's 2 votes on each and both of us are the only ones not voting
Don't care what others think about sheeping

[This Christmas]

Anen - Tier, TF
TS - alchemist, anen

[This Christmas]

I'll be back this afternoon to give my opinion

Alch, what did you "like" that Anen pointed out?

[This Christmas]

Nope, Anen-Tier and Alch-Tier are possible too

[This Christmas]

If Tier town, then it's 100% Alch/Anen

If Tier-scum, then there are many more possibilities

[This Christmas]

Here but busy yesterday.

If Tier scum, alch bussing tier with that awful-looking L-1 vote makes sense.

Alch Anen works with Alch's WKing of Anen. In that case I would vote Alch

But since that's not a viable option, I won't drag this out

[This Christmas]

Well, Anen and Alch piling on the wagon - Alch's looks more opportunistic. But at the same time, Alch's vote ooks so suspicious that it makes the Tier wagon look bad - which (speed included) makes people naturally second guess themselves and perhaps counter wagon or Unvote

:0

[This Christmas]

Basically I think Alchemist is scum either way, by General play
Parroting here, but Tier is good at sweet talking - that's a compliment lol

[This Christmas]

Anyways Ill see if shos has voted before lunch break which is a few hours before DL

[This Christmas]

VOTE: Tiershift
More like Tier-shit, eh? x)

/no offense

just thought of this pun and had to

VOTE: Tiershift

I think Alch and Anen had terrible Day 3's, and Tier actually fought hard today, but whatever. Hopefully Tier's sweet-talking was scum. If this vote's wrong, game ends and oh well, good game.

[This Christmas]

Classic case of compromise even though I wasn't scumreading Tier and don't have confidence. Gotta go with someone who's least likely to be scum (shos) based on Tier's "results." Even if I think Alch is scum, and Anen has been avoidant.

[This Christmas]

yeah they won it fair and square if they're the team, rammed the TS down.

tier's posts are so slick.

[This Christmas]

TS wagon

[This Christmas]

I'm leaning TF based on the last two pages

[This Christmas]

The way I see it, at this point there are only 2 possible teams:

- Either anen//Alch
- Or TC//TierShift

Any other combination and the game would be over by now. That is certain. Now, I just have to look at current player's actions and attitudes. From that, an anen/alch team just looks more likely, sorry.

Also, if I were scum w/ TS, I could have bushammered him and rode the townpoints to win tomorrow (accusing TC because he didn't hammer). I know it is WIFOM, but I didn't do that. Keep it in mind.

Finally, anen hasn't claimed yet and keeps on the high horse about that. The refusal to claim is another point where I can't trust him.

TF, almost everyone can be scum with TS, why only TC is in your options?

Toon you never answered this btw

[This Christmas]

Spoiler: Some of the VCs from Day 1

Frank is constantly causing problems by stealing money from his children to pay for alcohol.

Votecount 1.8

TierShift

(3): Aneninen, dodgy56, shos

shos

(2): Alchemist21, TierShift

Toon Fighter

(1): This Christmas

ArcAngel9

(1): estival

dodgy56

(1): Toon Fighter

Aneninen

(1): ArcAngel9

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-07 20:04:00)

Votecount 1.9

shos

(3): Alchemist21, TierShift, This Christmas

TierShift

(3): Aneninen, dodgy56, shos

dodgy56

(1): Toon Fighter

Aneninen

(1): ArcAngel9

This Christmas

(1): estival

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-07 20:04:00)

Patience...

Votecount 1.11

shos

(3): Alchemist21, TierShift, This Christmas

TierShift

(2): Aneninen, droog

Aneninen

(1): ArcAngel9

droog

(1): Toon Fighter

Toon Fighter

(1): shos

This Christmas

(1): estival

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-07 20:04:00)

Neighbours, Kevin and Veronica, often become involved with the Gallagher family's affairs. Kevin runs the bar where Frank usually drinks at whereas Veronica is Fiona's best friend.

Votecount 1.12

shos

(4): Alchemist21, TierShift, This Christmas, Toon Fighter

(L-1)

TierShift

(2): Aneninen, droog

Aneninen

(1): ArcAngel9

Toon Fighter

(1): shos

This Christmas

(1): estival

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-07 20:04:00)

Votecount 1.13

shos

(4): Alchemist21, TierShift, This Christmas, Toon Fighter

(L-1)

Toon Fighter

(3): shos, estival, ArcAngel9

TierShift

(2): Aneninen, droog

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-07 20:04:00)

TierShift is V/LA until Sunday evening.

Feeling alienated by his family, Frank attempts to move into the middle class Jackson family's home. Sheila, who is lonely and has agoraphobia, welcomes him for brief periods of time.

Votecount 1.14

shos

(4): Alchemist21, TierShift, This Christmas, Toon Fighter

(L-1)

Toon Fighter

(2): shos, Aneninen

TierShift

(1): estival

Not Voting

(2): ArcAngel9, droog

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-07 20:04:00)

LESS THAN 12 HOURS REMAINING

TierShift is V/LA until Sunday evening.

Votecount 1.15

TierShift

(2): Toon Fighter, Aneninen

Toon Fighter

(2): shos, This Christmas

shos

(2): Alchemist21, TierShift

Not Voting

(3): ArcAngel9, estival, droog

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-07 20:04:00)

TierShift is V/LA until Sunday evening.

Votecount 1.16

TierShift

(3): Toon Fighter, Aneninen, This Christmas

shos

(2): Alchemist21, TierShift

Toon Fighter

(1): shos

Not Voting

(3): droog, ArcAngel9, estival

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-07 20:04:00)

4 HOURS REMAINING!

TierShift is V/LA until Sunday evening.

Votecount 1.17 (FINAL)

TierShift

(4): Toon Fighter, Aneninen, This Christmas, droog

(L-1)

shos

(2): Alchemist21, TierShift

Toon Fighter

(1): shos

Not Voting

(2): ArcAngel9, estival

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-07 20:04:00)

TierShift is V/LA until Sunday evening.

[This Christmas]

was quoting that on my cell phone for later reference

[This Christmas]

I omitted the first 7 votecounts (1.1-1.7) in the quote, but I will get to that later

[This Christmas]

i really hope tier isn't trolling because then this will look stupid

anyways

My posts were slick AS FUCK and you know it.

yeah the Voice of Authority tone you had made you seem trustworthy,
but i feel you didnt tap into your aggression enough - like, a brazen, stubborn wall about why Anen and Alch made sense would have been even more convincing

why don't you start talking about cheese now

Well, since I know I am town, someone on TS's wagon is his partner. Therefore, he got bused. As he tried to get alch and anen lynched, I think the partner is likely TC. But we'll see the flip first and talk later.

i dont understand why you are drawing this connection of all things that have happened in this game, to call me a likely partner of TS

i wasn't sure where to reanalyze when this game reached MYLO, but I do know this. I do know a 180 is a powerful tool

I was very hesitant in MYLO here, but the positive is that it stimulated discussion before the day ended.

[This Christmas]

VOTE: No Lynch

[This Christmas]

No lynch because

Force the remaining scum to kill and make it 1v2. If scum plays chicken, no lynch again (and again if needed) and make the scum stop being a coward

[This Christmas]

scum can no-kill and hope that others get impatient and choose to lynch rather than NL again. scum has to kill within 3 night phases, otherwise it becomes a draw. that's what i meant by making scum stop playing chicken if that happens

please vote no-lynch

[This Christmas]

looks like alchemist, toon and I claimed VT

Anen claimed 1-shot commuter.

nothing special to see here, so yeah

[This Christmas]

You should vote no lynch

[This Christmas]

Don't kill the momentum from yesterday