Mini 1649: Jabberwocky Mafia (Game Over)

[Elbirn]

Hello everyone. Don't believe I've played with any of you, save for Beli (And I assume half of the hydra is Pirate Mollie, who I'm playing with in another game?). So, nice to meet you all. Forewarning, I tend to wallpost. I address all the points I feel like addressing, and I tend to do it in one post. I don't see the difference between doing that and spacing it out between multiple posts like other people, but it seems to annoy some people for some reason. So, sorry.

Speaking of Hydras, I've never played with one before. Can I know who the other head is? Or if there's more than 2 heads? Context clues would say GuyInFreezer. Also, are there any other hydras I haven't noticed, or just Valkyrie Mollie?

On to business.

---------------

@AxleGreaser:

You seem to be paying particular attention to TSO in 3 & 4, voting and unvoting him, then asking him of his school schedule and telling us that you've read a few of his games. Why is that? It seems an unnecessary amount of attention this early. Or, rather, it's strange that you would pick someone at random to already have under your magnifying glass, seemingly before the game even started. What's your interest with TSO?

---------------

@ Bel It's Wonderland, so I can't blame you. I'm pretty ignorant right now too. All I know for sure,... , is that I need something.

EBWOP Without it, I'm barely more than a treestump. But if I get my key to my rollerskate,... , see if anyone gets the joke, I may become this game's MVP!!! It

could

happen!?!

*Scratches head* Alright I'll bite, what do you need from us WP?

[Elbirn]

I have decided to ignore Witness Protection for the rest of the game and I advise everyone else to do the same.

The German was a quote with no relevance on the game and translates roughly to "Whereof one cannot speak, one must keep silent"

If Witness Protection made a third of the posts he's currently making that would still be too many.

You know it's funny cuz I actually think he's town. That aside, you're faulting a man for being nonsense in a game loosely based on a work of Lewis Carroll's.



Oh WP I know what your flavor is btw.


Anyway I'm gonna go ahead and do this.

VOTE: Tiershift

If Titus is always scum why aren't you voting her? Is it because you're scum too?

[Elbirn]

There is town red to be had (before I was overt in drawing votes to myself) in just throwing a vote on the tier wagon.

Based on what?

[Elbirn]

Hm, alright that makes sense. I presume we're discussing WP? If yes, I don't see why he would vote Tier aside from it being at random, but I guess that's the point. He did vote for you when prompted, which is something.

I'm not liking Tier so far regardless of RVS or whatever. Not certain why his vote is still on Axle, seems to have some hangups over voting you. Passive Aggressive attitude as well. Eh. Not feeling it.

So Titus, what do you think then of DDD and TSO, who haven't voted at all?

[Elbirn]

I don't really get the reasoning for both of you being the same alignment, particularly since I'm leaning town on WP and scum on Tier. I didn't even read Titus' post as saying you were either both town or both scum...Well hang on.

Witness Protection is likely town or scum with Tiershift.

There is town red to be had (before I was overt in drawing votes to myself) in just throwing a vote on the tier wagon. He doesn't vote there.

So I read this as either

1. WP is likely town
2. WP & Tier are scumbuddies

Not as

1. WP & Tier are likely town
2. WP & Tier are likely scum

If it's the latter scenario...I can see how one could conclude that WP & Tier are possibly scum together, but not how Tier is suddenly town because another town didn't RVS them, that does not make a single lick of sense.

I'm gonna stick with WP is town and Tier is scum.

---------

I like Farsides vote on Brantz. Looking at Brantz, he jumps on the Tier wagon for undisclosed reasons, all the while complaining that he doesn't understand WP's babbling, with zero attempt to sort any of it. It sounds like scum just trying to fluff.

[Elbirn]

hi guyz

wats going on

I consider using this in RVS cheating - we're all risking stuff to make the game and you're sitting there playing it safe. I am disappoint.

And yet you didn't put your vote into play, and your opening post was a buncha fluff. You've done exactly what you accuse VM of doing. FoS here.

[Elbirn]

Bleh quote fail, should be this.

hi guyz

wats going on

I consider using this in RVS cheating - we're all risking stuff to make the game and you're sitting there playing it safe. I am disappoint.

Just want to be clear that the FoS is towards TSO and not Axle, as the screwed up quotes above would imply.

[Elbirn]

Oh by the way, what IS Jabberwocky?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabberwocky

A nonsense poem in Lewis Caroll's "Through The Looking Glass, And What Alice Found There". The Jabberwocky being an evil beast who is slain by the Beamish Boy. I'd read through it, might have some hints depending on how heavily GoodMorning borrowed from her source material? I've never played a theme game before so Idk.

[Elbirn]

And yet you didn't put your vote into play, and your opening post was a buncha fluff. You've done exactly what you accuse VM of doing. FoS here.

Did no-one pick up on this being a joke? Really?

JABBERWOCKY JABBERWOCKY JABBERWOCKY

Where's the joke? Is it that you lurked the first 48 hours of the game away and then the first thing you did was pop in and accuse someone of not contributing?

okay so tso is town!

Based on what?

[Elbirn]

Yeah, I'm not hip to your jive, help me get withit, Jack.

Translation, I still see no joke, unless it's the "jabberwocky beetlejuice" thing you're doing, which isn't what I was referring to in the first place. As for the whole "no jokes allowed" thing, not all, I'm just busting your balls because that's what I do.

Why did you forget about the game?

[Elbirn]

@VM: Both TSO and I have asked what makes you think TSO is town (Well, I directly asked, TSO not quite but he did prompt you about it?). I'm interested to hear your reasoning.

You have that handy dandy list of people you townread and would not lynch today. Would you add TSO to that list?

So my reads thus far is the mollie hydra, DDD and Brantz are my current scum reads thus far.

I can explain any and all for those who care.

Please do.

Not early. Easy.

If scum fucks up early on, I'm not averse to pushing a swift and decisive lynch. I have not, however, seen that happen this game.

What qualifies as an "easy" wagon, and what makes it a wrong choice?
Earlier you said the Tiershift wagon was "easy", and so you didn't like it. Does this imply that you think Tier is town? If yes, why?

[Elbirn]

@ Yakko, 175: I mean I guess I can see where you're coming from, but no, I in no way implied that those two were scumreading WP. I made a comment on their dismissal of WP, and established that yes, I have a tentative townread on him myself.

@ VM, you guys vote for Far in 168, but then for Brantz in 173. I had to remind myself that you're a hydra, and I'm still trying to figure out how to sort hydras...So I can see that you two aren't 100% in sync with your reads then, but I'm curious, how does the head that voted Farside (Mollie?) feel about having their vote moved to Brantz (By GuyinFreezer?), when the case against him is being pushed by Farside? The transition from "Farside is 1000% scum" to "Nah let's lynch BRantz, you're right", with zero complaints, feels a bit unnatural.

Also: TSO, Yakko, and yours truly have asked why you think TSO is town, a few times now, and you've both made plenty of posts since then and still haven't even acknowledged it?

[Elbirn]

Actually, that fuckup is making me doubt by scumread. Fuck you very much for that. Now I have to think.

...What fuckup? The accidental pluralization of the word "post"?

Does that even qualify as a fuckup? Is there a quantifiable difference between saying "Belisarius disagreed with a post" and "Belisarius disagreed with multiple posts"? The message is the same, the conclusion is the same; Titus said X and you didn't like X.

I mean unless I'm an idiot (probable) and I've missed something, this just feels nitpicky and strange.

[Elbirn]

You're a Mafia traitor that wins when you sacrifice your team?

How did you get "mafia traitor" out of that?

[Elbirn]

Oh shoot, I just want to make everyone aware of this now, cuz I just realized. Beginning March 5th I'm going to have to V/LA until March 9th. I'm shipping up to Boston with some friends for, among other things, a geeky videogame con thing. I'll only have phone access and will try to keep up when I can, but I'll have no computer access and obviously a diminished ability to post/contribute. Apologies to all. :/

[Elbirn]

BRantz

Another good wagon. 191 just hit me wrong from his ISO, making me reread him several times.

Of course

I could be wrong. Still a good wagon with a Town read and a nullish read.

farside22

I don't trust BRantz, so no.

Valkyrie Mollie

Farside scum reads Brantz, complains about Brantz' scum read of mollie, then goes and votes VM. Reasons are eh. That's close to meh. I don't have a clue, and it's anyone's guess if this is a scum wagon or not

Snipped out the relevant points.

So in your commentary on the VM wagon. You discuss reasons for Farsides vote on VM, where she complains about BRantz and then votes VM. This *sounds* like you pointing out some inconsistency or flaw in Farsides reasoning, which to me would seem to indicate scumminess. But then you say that Farside wagon is a no for you entirely because you don't trust BRantz.

So how is it that you're pointing out a crappy move, and then saying "nah she's town" in the same breath? Can you elaborate on this? Putting aside your distrust of BRantz, what is your read on Farside?

P-edit:

Farside sticks to incredulousness that looks real. Makes me not want to scum read her. I don't right now.

Okay, I guess you kiiinda answered my question before I asked it. Can you elaborate on THIS then, because I'm not sure what you mean. Do you have any other reasons for your read? You say you don't scumread her. So is she a townread?

[Elbirn]

I can show you a fairly recent example of a game being lost because someone couldn't logically see how Town could have a certain opinion/do what they thought was right. Town can cog-dis too. I try to see things from more than one view.

Sometimes

it works.

@ Elbirn There's also the possibility I'm wrong. That's why I need Town to help me puzzle it out!

This didn't really answer my questions.

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

What Farside did isn't Cog-Dis; she went on and on about how BRantz is scummy, and then voted VM instead for shaky reasons. Her reasoning doesn't contradict itself, as her reads aren't mutually exclusive. But I find the thought process behind her attacking BRantz for scumminess and then voting someone else for little reason at the time, and then coming up with more reasons later (something about meta or something I can't be bothered to translate that mess), to not be a natural thought process. Do you disagree?

And to repeat my questions:

1.

Farside sticks to incredulousness that looks real.

What does this mean?

2. What is your read on Farside, and what reasons do you have for that read?

[Elbirn]

I guess I've been prodded, so I should probs read and post in this game huh.

It'd be nice if you'd play, yeah.

You voted for Belisarius a long while back, with no explanation. You're so under the radar the only reason I noticed is because I decided to ISO you, and was woefully underwhelmed with your 5 posts. Wherein you have 3 excuses for not playing and 2 votes without reasons.

But I digress.

If you're going to vote for Beli, would you care to share your reasons with the rest of the class?
And if you'd please take the time to read the thread, and then share any thoughts you have? Kthx.

[Elbirn]

There is nothing scummy about having town reads and not wanting to lynch players, added none of the players Mollie states did brantz state a scum read in.

As for Mollie, well I've seen players have town reads early, I found her wording on never willing to lynch pretty useless too. Again reads a bit buddyish/over the top unnecessary.

She did vote VM with this post. She went from nothing scummy with (Town reads) to saying they are essentially worthless (mollie's reads) I think a scum read's reads are worth something. You are right though, there isn't as much (very little cog-dis) as I thought just going from memory.

I like how she's expressed her scum reads, fought to be clear, without admitting she's wrong, came around to "though I know Titus thus, others might know her differently". Does this make her "Town I'll never ever vote"? No, but not a good Day 1 lynch IMO.

Ah, so that's where the cog-dis was. Gotcha.

Thanks for bringing those posts up, I hadn't really noticed them. I'm not sure how to feel about that.It sounds like Far's comment in 163 is that BRantz post is scummy because he's expressing the idea that having strong townreads is bad. But she says no less than 20 minutes later that she doesn't like Mollie's buddying...Whiiiich appears to be contradictory.

@Farside

: Can you please explain the above? Why is BRantz post bad, but you express the same idea a few posts later and it's okay?

If I'm not mistaken you still scumread both BRantz and VM. Do you think they could be scum together?

[Elbirn]

Town reads are normal. Adding the will not lynch was unnecessary.
Adding it on page 5 was unnecessary. Brantz I thought was complaining about having the town reads.

But BRantz complaint wasn't the townreads, it was

"Giving four players a day one pass"

, I.E. the will not lynch part.

So you've criticized him for that, while thinking the same thing yourself. And then you misrepped it as him saying that "Townreads are bad". And that's just awful.

[Elbirn]

@Farside again

If I'm not mistaken you still scumread both BRantz and VM. Do you think they could be scum together?

[Elbirn]

Town reads are normal. Adding the will not lynch was unnecessary.
Adding it on page 5 was unnecessary. Brantz I thought was complaining about having the town reads.

But BRantz complaint wasn't the townreads, it was

"Giving four players a day one pass"

, I.E. the will not lynch part.

So you've criticized him for that, while thinking the same thing yourself. And then you misrepped it as him saying that "Townreads are bad". And that's just awful.

I sort of have a bad habit of half reading things and then remembering a quarter of what I read.

@Farside again

If I'm not mistaken you still scumread both BRantz and VM. Do you think they could be scum together?

I am no longer scum reading Brantz
I am still scum reading yakko who is all but invisible this game.

Yeah I'm really not buying it. Also I didn't even ask about Yakko, I asked about VM. As pointed our your Axle read sounds kinda crap too.

Farside seems scummy to me, but I'm not confident in saying that she's a better lynch than Tier without me having time to further investigate, reread, and ISO. Which, unfortunately, I do not have time, because my V/LA starts tonight. And I can't see a wagon forming on her. I'm leaving my vote on Tier. I will be keeping up with the thread, but as I've stated contributions will be slim as I'm going on a vacation and I don't want to be attached to my phone the whole time. Again, I'm gone until 3/9/15. Sorry. Again I will keep up, and I will move my vote if need be to ensure a lynch happens.

I will state now that I am most comfortable with a lynch on Tiershift, Farside, or BRantz. If not them, I'll support lynching one of the many lurkers we have. Seriously, this whole thing is turning into a bloated corpse of a game. Yakko, Seraphim, Aeronaut, TSO, and Tiershift don't even appear to be playing this game. And several others are pretty low content but are at least posting *something*. I just. Bleh.

@Mod: V/LA until 3/9/15

[Elbirn]

Wheee Phone posting.

as a result of the past several posts, +town points for tier and +scum points for brantz. I actually liked what tier had to say, and I kinda feel like I can see his thought process and it seems...not scummy? My only issue is that he waited this long to contribute. I don't know if maybe he saw the deadline creeping up and then self preservation kicked in or what. Either way I'm a bit less willing to have him killed.

My preference now is farside Or brantz. I see scumminess from both, AND a little bit of an association. Which I know preflip Associations are bullshit, but the fact that they're both independently scummy in my opinion makes it that much stronger.

What's the case on Valkyrie, Tier? Is it just gut? I wouldn't call those two a town read but I don't see scumminess there.

[Elbirn]

Elb: I think it's obvious I still think vm is scum. As for my half read I have ADD, which there is a thread I posted on I think 2 months ago. You can believe it or not. I have the issue no matter my alignment.

And I apologize if you took offense to my comments. And call me gullible but I'll believe you, I'd like to think that a scum wouldn't stoop so low as to lie about that. However I still don't feel that the scumliness I see is a result of a lack of reading or of add, I feel it's coming from a scum thought process. Soz.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BRantz

At this point, again, I want my vote on either far or brantz. Im a bit on the fence but I don't want my vote not in play, and I can see the brantz wagon is the one most likely to go through.

[Elbirn]

Vla Posting wheee

To TSO. you said nothing but good things about me, then threw it out the windown with "elbirn trys Too hard to be town"? Literally what? If you read any of my games you'd see I play this way every game. It's a side effect of me having an Internet addiction and too much free time. but you don't say it based on my own playstyle, you compare it to yourself, which is just invalid and hokey.

To witness, why do you say nothing but bad things about tso and then end with "you're not a townread but there's common ground"? Your thought process is nonsense.

[Elbirn]

V/LA ends. Lets get a lynch through plz. Thinking about the game over my vacay, I'm less optimistic about BRantz flipping scum. I've been stalking (reading) a game that he just happened to be in, and he flipped town. His play there reminds me of his play here. It's not much, but it's not nothing. Mostly my gut says BRantz isn't scum, whilst my head says he's doing scummy stuff so he is scum. So far in my time on this site, my head has never been right.

I see a lot of people sitting around twiddling their thumbs going "Guh I'd lynch Seraph, he's super scum, but good golly gosh it's so close to deadline". K so vote Seraph then. We can compromise on Seraph instead of letting him lurkfuck his way out of playing this game. Literally no one has contributed less. It has been 2 weeks. 14 days. He has 7 posts. If you'll read his ISO, you will see they are as follows.

-1 vote on WP for "talking too much", and 1 follow up post promising that he will ignore him and advises that we all do the same, which makes zero sense if we are trying to work together, but makes a lot of sense for a scum trying to divide us
-1 vote for Belisarius for quite literally zero reason. This is never explained beyond "gut" when I prompt him later.
-3 promises to contribute/post more in the future

That's it.
Like it's not just the number of posts. When there is a post there is zero substance. No content. It is shallow. It is nothing. I am not going to play with him. I don't care what faction he is, he is dragging this game down. Seraphim needs to replace out or be killed, because if he's town scum won't kill him and he'll be lynchbait the whole game, and if he's scum, well, self explanatory.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Seraphim

[Elbirn]

To witness, why do you say nothing but bad things about tso and then end with "you're not a townread but there's common ground"? Your thought process is nonsense.

It all comes back to being wrong enough times to know that Today's scum read might be Tomorrow's Town read. Just because someone's not a firm Town read doesn't mean you want to burn the bridge this early. We might need to work together later. He can show me why he thinks what he did isn't scummy, and I'll adjust my read accordingly.

Should I throw away a BRantz scum read because I don't like a lot about T S O's catch up? In the scheme of things he doesn't appear an option for a lynch Today anyway. I think it's pretty clear the slots I'm willing to lynch.

What are your feelings about T S O's posts? Can you see where my skepticism (with his catch up)comes from? Since our actions appear nonsense to you, what bothers you the most? Do you see a net gain for scum doing it?

K, so here's the thing. You said nothing about TSO that would indicate a similar viewpoint, opinion, or any sort of agreement. In fact, you did nothing but disagree. I can reread to make sure I'm not imagining that, but I'm pretty certain that nothing you have said = "common ground" with TSO. You said he's wrong, but you still somehow made the conclusion that he might be town, which is all fine and well, town can disagree. But I don't see where your weak-townread comes from, nor do I see what it is you're agreeing on. This is why your thought process is nonsense to me. Can you explain why he's town, or show me the common ground plz?

And to answer your questions

1. There were parts I thought were...Okay. And then parts I just didn't like. I don't get his grief with Beli or you. His logic on me doesn't make sense to me either. Sooo to transition into question numberrrrr

2. I totally get your skepticism with his catchup. What I don't get is why you're skeptical and then you toss an implied weaktownread to him. Doesn't sync to me.

3-4. These are bullshit questions imo. What bothers me the most? Idk, between your cog-dis and his crappily vague suspicion of me it's hard to pick. Does it matter which bothers me the most? It only seems to matter that they both bother me. Is that question supposed to prod me into only picking one thing to take issue with or what? What is the point of it?

Do I see a net gain for scum doing what you two did? Does it matter if there's a gain? Does no gain = not alignment indicative? Either way, I can't see a gain from you having an odd thought process, while I can see a gain for scum tossing suspicion at someone instead of giving an actual read.

[quote="In

To TSO. you said nothing but good things about me, then threw it out the windown with "elbirn trys Too hard to be town"? Literally what? If you read any of my games you'd see I play this way every game. It's a side effect of me having an Internet addiction and too much free time. but you don't say it based on my own playstyle, you compare it to yourself, which is just invalid and hokey.

I think I said I liked one of your posts. This is not the same as praising you repeatedly.

I am saying the playstyle you use is easy to townread, from experience, as either alignment, and am encouraging caution towards carelessly doing that.

I didn't say you praised me repeatedly. But fine, the way my post is worded it implies multiple posts. But let's not argue semantics, you are saying essentially that you see me as acting in a pro-town manner, and you are saying that that could be scummy because of something YOU did. You are applying your personal meta to me, and disregarding my own. This is bullshit. And now in this latest post you are cautioning me to not be easily townread. What?

.

Yeah, this posts makes me feel openly paranoid of WP-scum.

At that moment in the game, I was openly paranoid of my Town reads. I'd

almost

guarantee some, if not all of the scums were taking a wait and see approach at the time.

And so, you tried to foster paranoia in the town instead. That's very pro-town play.

Have you not done the same thing with your pseudo read on me?
Do you think that cog-dis is a scumtell?

[Elbirn]

Has axl been viged yet?

Why would he be? I think he's town.
Why do you want Axl to be vigged?

[Elbirn]

Again my concern is that you brought up the subject by comparing it to yourself, which made me think meta, but perhaps that is a matter of semantics. I feel my "playstyle" is the same regardless of my alignment and so isn't a tell either way. That's obviously a statement that only I can agree with.

[Elbirn]

Oh yeah, GM my VLA ended, sorry I should have mentioned.

Anyhoo.

Seraphim [L-1] - Witness Protection, Elbirn, BRantz, farside22, Belisarius, Valkyrie Mollie
BRantz [L-2] - hi im Yakko, T S O, Flubbernugget, Titus, TierShift

So as of this post that's what the wagons are. Only Seraphim and Axle are off wagon, Seraphim is gone and even if he weren't he'd be on the BRantz wagon as a matter of course. Axle has declared willingness to hammer either I believe.

I'm liking the people on the Seraph wagon a lot more than the people on the BRantz wagon. Tier has gotten some townpoints recently imo, but Yakko and Flubber slots are nearly as bad as Seraph, and I have some misgivings about TSO and Titus. Looking at the Seraph wagon, we've got myself, 3 people I'm leaning town on, 1 scumread, and BRantz himself who I'm still trying to sort and wouldn't mind having dead, but my gut says he isn't scum.

Can you elaborate on what you think of the wagons, Tier? You say the Seraph wagon = self preserving people. How is this true for anyone except for BRantz, who no matter what his alignment is would not be playing to his win condition if he DIDN'T vote for Seraph?

[Elbirn]

Oops, apologies, Axl said that given a choice he will hammer Seraphim. So that's a townlean pseudo on the Seraphim wagon. Looking better imo.

[Elbirn]

He has 5-6 hours to pick up his prod.

Replacing and so forth. Deadline is frozen until a replacement is found.

The clock will restart at 2 days once that happens.

Seems extension was already granted

[Elbirn]

More would be better, though.

Deadline frozen until replacements are found, and then once they are we get another 48 hours? That seems pretty fair.

Hey since you're here, can you tell me your reasons for voting Seraphim?

[Elbirn]

Hey since you're here, can you tell me your reasons for voting Seraphim?

I did:

I'd still prefer an aeroslot lynch based on DDD's play but I'll settle for Sera out of utter disgust with the current leading wagons.

So how do you reconcile that with your 149 and 155, where you avoid a Brantz wagon for being "too easy", but now you're all aboard the Seraph train to policy-lynch town?

[Elbirn]

Seraph's not too easy, the slot has been successfully flying under the radar all game.

I'm still pretty uneasy about the idea of a Brantz lynch.

How does being under the radar make the lynch not-easy?

What qualifies as an "easy" wagon, and what makes it a wrong choice?

A large amount of votes on one player without commensurate justification, and what makes it wrong is the lack of commensurate justification.

^ You said that an easy wagon is one without justification. What is the justification for this wagon?

[Elbirn]

And what don't you like about the BRantz wagon?

[Elbirn]

Agreed. Willing to hammer BRantz, someone wanted us to wait I believe?

UNVOTE:

[Elbirn]

VOTE: BRantz

[Elbirn]

Oops, apologies, Axl said that given a choice he will hammer Seraphim. So that's a townlean pseudo on the Seraphim wagon. Looking better imo.

Why are people on the sera wagon to n over people on the Brantz wagon? assigning town reads to people on a wagon? that seems rather flimsy imo actually it seems gauche.

Uhhhh No? I'm saying that axle is a townlean, and the fact that he joined the wagon reinforced my feelings that it was the right wagon. my town reads have nothing to do with what wagon the person is on.

[Elbirn]

scum:
Tier
Brantz
Elbrin

Prove me wrong, protip you can't.

You spelled "brantz, farside, beli" wrong.

[Elbirn]

scum:
Tier
Brantz
Elbrin

Prove me wrong, protip you can't.

You spelled "brantz, farside, beli" wrong.

I see your case on farside and branz - I must have missed beli.

Why do you think beli is scum?

Yeah so basically I've had him as a tentative townlean so far, but then the other day at work I was thinking about this, and a little light bulb went off. The sequence of posts that is 149, 155, and then 443, where he flipsflops on his own logic. "No easy wagons, there needs justification" earlier today on a BRantz wagon, when getting the ball rolling really mattered, and then when push comes to shove "oh yeah let's go for a policy lynch I'm fine with that". That is shit. And then when I prompt him about it starting around 525 his answers p much confirmed my suspicions. 529 reminds me of Beli in a game I played with him where he and I were scumbuddies; throw out some vague, mostly irrelevant nonsense about meta/some game related anecdote/whatever you want to call it and pass it off as a contribution.

So TL;DR

1. Early game, wagon pops up on BRantz. He ignores it and pushes against it, with the logic of "nah, this wagon is 'easy' and has no justification so it's bad"
2. Wagon on BRantz again, he gets put to L-1, with an alternative wagon of Sera being at L-3 by the time he joins it. A pure policy lynch, with zero reasoning, and somehow it's more justified than a lynch on BRantz who has an actual scumcase being pushed by several people? Nah, this is scum-Beli seeing an alternative wagon to his partner picking up steam.
3. Scum-Beli trips and drops his townmask in the mud in 525. While scrambling for it he mutters some irrelevant nothings about another game.

Clear logical contradiction, pieces fit, he looks like the Beli I played with as scum. *Waves to Scum-Beli* ^_^

I believe I've already pointed out where Farside screwed up, where she had a clear logical error regarding BRantz, where the logical conclusion to her line of questioning would have been to vote him, buuut then she instead voted for VM. "Bus a buddy, vote a townie".

BRantz hammer please.

[Elbirn]

Yeah we are less than 24 hours, Axle plz.

[Elbirn]

AxleGreaser was

snicker-snacked

Night 1. He was

the Jabberwock, Suicidal Mafia.

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went

snicker-snack

!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Suicidal

Okay, so here's my interpretation of events.

Axl was suicidal. I realize that it might be a bit foolish to take a bastard role at face value, but I must assume that his suicidalness follows the mechanics of the above linked wiki page. Meaning it was time based, either after X amount of night phases or after he made X amount of posts. Somehow, I can't see a scum being timed to die after *one* night. I also can't see how scum being timed to die = replacing scum factions night kill, because that is so town sided it's ludicrous. Furthermore, if Axl killed himself, why was he "Snicker-snacked"?

Here's what went down.
1. The Beamish Boy (Vigilante) took his Vorbal blade in hand, and slayed the Jabberwock.
2. We have either a JailKeeper or a Doctor who prevented the NK

[Elbirn]

Even with BRantz flipping town I still don't think I like Belisarius. That clear logical contradiction feels like agenda to me. Why did he want BRantz wagon to fail, but he wanted to push through a policy lynch? My gut says he would scumbuddy town to set up false associatives for after he dies. And then there's 529 which again is crap and looks like the kind of thing he did in my past game with him.

Axel is starting to be a scum read.

I want to hear more on this. I can't read Axel.

Non-commital, wishywashy stance on your buddy much?

VOTE: Belisarius

[Elbirn]

I think axl WAS set to die at N1, without a scum kill. This makes the setup most probably 9:2 after N1, which is pretty much balanced if town is weak.

I don't think him suiciding is too townsided or replacing the NK is too townsided. A NK would make it evens, which is something the mod might have tried to prevent.

Even if he was set to die N1, why would that replace the night kill?
Adding to my reasons previously stated, I feel like Axl was trying way to hard to set up a Tier lynch for someone about to die and flip scum. Plus he hammered BRantz, which he could have very easily not done. It's not like he needed towncred for preventing a nolynch if he was set to die that night.

[Elbirn]

Speaking of Axl's interactions with Tier, he was trying pretty hard to get him lynched for someone about to die. And it seems to me that Tier was fairly likely to be lynched yesterday. It would not make sense for Team Scum to throw away 2 members for zero gain....Unless I've missed something Tier is pretty much conftown. Thoughts on this please?

[Elbirn]

He was trying to set up my lynch?
ok I'm really gonna read right now

It would replace the nightkill, because evens are incredibly hard on town. A 8-2 is functionally equivalent to 7-2, which is pretty balanced with a decently powered town. If there is a decently powered town, scum wouldn't have to have a suicider.

I really think town is weak in this setup or scum is just incredibly strong.

Think about it: why would you, as mod, include a scum suicider?

1. Dawg he tunnelled you all day. :/

2. I wouldn't, but if I did...To balance team vs. scum. Since that's negative utility for scum, it must mean scum is strong or town is weak. Since my hypothesis is that town has at least a Vig and a Doc/JK...Either we have some crappy other roles, or maybe scum started with 4 members? But that wouldn't make sense, the Jabberwock poem has 3 villains (Jabberwocky, Bandersnatch, JubJub Bird). So I'm guessing either we have crap for power roles or scum has a Roleblocker or Rolecop or something?

[Elbirn]

@Tier: Why does not interacting with Axle = Town?

[Elbirn]

If I were scum with axle, I would try to distance enough from him as to not be looked at today. I think we gotta look at people who had lots of interactions with axle about maybe somewhat trivial things or stuff that looks like they're talking just because of the talking.
Basically like usual buddy tells, but there probably is even more interaction here.

I've been trying to sort through axle's posts. It's really tough.

Like, say you're scum. So you try to distance yourself. Isn't a good way of doing that avoiding him all together? Instead you reach the opposite conclusion I have. *Headscratch*

[Elbirn]

...you're trying to discredit my scum read of you because you said you'd do what you're doing here?

[Elbirn]

Actually, not even, I just reread that scum pt and you said nothing of the sort. so you're trying to discredit my thought with something you never even said, and if you had it would only have made my argument stronger.

Beli lynch now plz.

[Elbirn]

Elbrim, who were you scumreading at the end of yesterday?

BRantz beli far, why?

[Elbirn]

I've considered that Axle's role made him suicide if town was lynched d1, but that doesn't explain why scum didn't powerbus him d1 for town cred.

It seems extremely likely he was vigged.

I have thought that powerbussing might have happened though hence why flub is awkward.


@Elbrim, Because I want to be insane town Titus.

Let's lynch farside.

Hm. Why? I'm not opposed to it, but I'd much prefer a Beli lynch today. I also don't get why you in particular want a Far lynch, searching your ISO shows you townread her all Day 1...?

I don't see very much interaction with axel and vm.
I also support the beli wagon I agree with elb.

...So follow up with a vote?
I mean I get you two are buddies and all but you could at least try not to be so obvious about it.

*snip*
I don't think that is something scum would do with a suicidal partner....

I'm thinking about it and I don't see how the suicidal part matters. You're basically saying that if scum have a partner who could die (so, scum has a partner, period.) they wouldn't act wishy-washy toward them. Because that would look suspicious. So we should only be looking at solid reads. Because that's what scum should do, amirite, have solid reads when it comes to their partners? *Sips wine*

will do ISO reads with axle and tell you guys what I think

This is problematic though. Considering that axle likely knew he was going to die then I would venture a guess that he would have been interacting with that very thought in his mind.

Pretty much anytime I look at his posts it becomes a giant befuddled WIFOM. I am not sure we can draw anything concrete from his posts.

Again I know literally none of you agree with me, but Team Scum totally didn't expect an Axle death N1. Which would throw their plans out of whack. Telling us not to look at our only conf-scum for evidence strikes me as odd as well...

[Elbirn]

Great, I try to break up my post without hitting preview and I screwed up the quotes ;_;

Where is the reasoning on beli?

Yesterday I understood the case - he was defending BR a lot - to much particularly with the scum case around him. Now we have a flip and BR was town - that certainly does not lead me to scum. Then he jumped on my wagon with a weak reason but a reason nonetheless. There was some early pressuring titus but nothing that was scum worthy IMHO.

Even with BRantz flipping town. His logic on not voting BRantz, and then on voting you, contradicted itself. I see scum who has to make up what he believes/thinks. His defense of BRantz doesn't make any sense regardless, it's like he had an agenda of buddying up to him. Beli's also a good scum player, one that I would see dropping fake associative tells on innocents, and I think that's what he was trying to do here. And I mean, it doesn't hurt that he pretty much admitted it.

My gut says he would scumbuddy town to set up false associatives for after he dies.

Your gut doesn't say that, my posts in our scum PT in our mutual scumgame says that.

Wherefore art thou trying to take credit?

Rereading this, it's like, "You figured me out, but only cuz I told you!"

BRantz flipping town doesn't lead me to scum so much as it does nothing to dissuade me from what I already think. And I think Beli's scum and I want him ded

[Elbirn]

@Elbrin, If Flubber is scum, your assertion is wrong.

I don't think Flubbers vig claim matters, even if he's lying scum, there's totally a vig in game.

...Or a Serial Killer.

Oh lol Flubbers a Serial Killer, I get it now.

[Elbirn]

Elb: if all your going to do is snip out my comments and not read the full quote, don't expect me to be nice after towards you.

Like for example why is titus voting me over beli if you scum read both of us.
Why is vm who scum read titus and promised some meta suddenly not pushing that or showing that scum read.

But hey you want to continue tunneling be my guest you saw where that lead with brantz.

I did not snip out your comment. That was the full quote. You said you supported the wagon, but you didn't join it.

You haven't even voted for anyone yet.

Titus voting you over Beli has nothing to do with this, and even if it did I already asked her about it. Don't deflect.
VM/Titus reaction also has nothing to do with you, maybe you could expand on that however and ask VM yourself instead of, again, trying to deflect.

Bad, I'll stand by the BRantz lynch as being the best option yesterday given the circumstances, and I didn't even tunnel him.

Vote Belisarius, or explain why you're not doing so.

^ This.

K so I was writing this whilst still reading the past page or so, and I apologize, you did vote VM in a previous post. Soo here's where I'm at now. I still see it as odd that you'd say you support a wagon, but stay off of it and not explain why. Maybe it's just semantics and thus a crappy argument so I'll just drop that. But can you expand on your VM + Titus theory plz? I'd really like a stated, clear case, because your position isn't 100% clear to me, all I see is earlier you say you're paranoid because they didn't interact, and something about where they voted that I'm not sure I get.

[Elbirn]

Titus, can you tell us where your Far scumread came from? Again, my reading of Day 1 shows that you townread her. What changed?

[Elbirn]

Titus I have literally no idea what you're trying to say to us.

Also, I want a Beli lynch, but is it really a good idea for you to hammer him with 11 days left on the clock?

[Elbirn]

On phone. Can't make long posts. but yeah Titus is either good town or bad scum, and I won't explain why. *hugs titus*

[Elbirn]

I think you got it. Do not hug me. It will get confusing.

You should punch Farside IMO.

*unhugs*
hm. Not Beli?

[Elbirn]

Ah, of course. Punch far. Got it.

[Elbirn]

I don't think I'm comfortable with all this role fishing and PR speculation. Regardless there's no way that all of these hints/barely claims are all true.

Titus, you are now either insane scum or drunk town, cuz a lot of what you're saying doesn't make sense but I can't see how it would help you as scum. Beli hasn't CC'd anywhere, and I'm not even sure I buy the idea that TSO is claiming a guilty.

[Elbirn]

So let's say TSO *is* Cop, and he does have a guilty on Beli. Do we really have to make him out himself? Cuz I'm willing to lynch Beli without a cop guilty regardless.

[Elbirn]

...Yo so look I'm confused. I'm a straight forward guy. I'm just gonna level with everyone here.

I'm Vanilla Town. I still 100% believe there to be a Vig in play for various reasons. I've been going along with crazy-town Titus thinking I'm Vig, because I wanted the actual Vig to have some kind of cover, and I wanted team scum to NK me instead. Which I believe worked N1, pretty sure I was targeted, *someone* doc'd/JK'd me, and I lived. Actual Vig took down Axl.

But yeah shit got too real here and whatevers going on is over my head so I'm just gonna set the record straight.

Soz.

[Elbirn]

Well shit.

Elbrin's still fucking town.

I'm the doctor and I HEALED Elbrin.

That's why I buddied him and I wanted to follow his scumreads. That's because scum wanted to fucking kill him.

^ And I believe that because D1 was a muddled mess, and while I don't want to toot my own horn, cuz I certainly have no idea what I'm doing and am really noob. But after the mess that is D1, I really did think I was going to be the NK, I towned kinda hard, and in at least one instance I hinted at a PR. When I wasn't killed, there was NO night kill, and then Titus started going off about hugging me, I went with occam's razor and believed that Titus was doctor and targeted me. So that's a conftown to me.

[Elbirn]

I still don't think TSO claimed a guilty.
I still don't think Beli CC'd any PR.
I still want to lynch Beli.

And on that note I'm going to bed, g'night all

[Elbirn]

Farside is the obvious Vig target tonight sooo

Also yeah this game is pretty broken if everything that's been said is true.

[Elbirn]

Flubber, I'm curious. Why did you pass the sword to Mollie N1?

[Elbirn]

OH, can everyone please please please also claim their role flavor as well?

[Elbirn]

Boring old vt

Flavor claim please

[Elbirn]

On the one hand, cop-TSO could be playing obtuse so that he doesn't out himself. On the other, he could be scum-TSO, we could turbo lynch Beli, he flips town, and then scum-TSO goes "lol I told you guyssss I didn't have a guilty on him." But if that were the case we'd just lynch TSO for being a scumshit. So scum-TSO wouldn't do that. Right?

So long story short we lynch Beli, his partner may be Farside depending on her answer to my question, if not her then it's either FAQ2 or Yakko. GG.

[Elbirn]

okay so I have a moment.

@ far

where the fuck was i catty. I have been defending you.

@ elby

hi elby hi.

I am not taking orders from you so plz don't presume to try to give them to me again. you being targeted for a nk means that scum are idiots and unfamiliar with the playerlist. here is a fun excercise: go look at d1 and who you were suspecting and try to figure out as to why you wld be nked. there you go thatsa good boy. fetch

That sure was unnecessarily dickheaded of you. I didn't even ask you for anything. Actually no you know what the more I read this the angrier I am, you can go fuck yourself.

[Elbirn]

I want Far's flavor kthx.

[Elbirn]

Assuming anyone reads that post, I'm sorry I lost mah chill for a second.

[Elbirn]

On phone. far is confscum. That is all.

[Elbirn]

Oh yeah I'll talk after work but I just want to point out that I'm the slithy tove

[Elbirn]

K so hi I'm done work and at a computer so I can actually contribute now.

@ elby

hi elby hi.

I am not taking orders from you so plz don't presume to try to give them to me again. you being targeted for a nk means that scum are idiots and unfamiliar with the playerlist. here is a fun excercise: go look at d1 and who you were suspecting and try to figure out as to why you wld be nked. there you go thatsa good boy. fetch

Okay so I think we covered the part where I was in a bad mood and interpreted this as being rude to me, and was pretty awful in turn. Again, I apologize for escalating that. That wasn't cool. IRL I sometimes have a bit of a temper, I'm usually good at keeping it in check but sometimes it comes out online because it's easier to be mean to words than it is to people. I really want to get along with ye good people of mafiascum, and want to be someone that people enjoy playing with, because I want to play with enjoyable people myself. So again, I'm sorry.

I do want to say that I'm not "giving orders". I mean for starters I asked, not demanded, and if we're both town it would seem to make sense to either cooperate or explain why you think it would not be a good idea to do so. I wanted to ask for peoples flavor, in addition to the massclaim that was practically going on, because frankly that would be very useful imo. Basically I think that with all of the flavors out in the open we can determine who is scum making up rolenames. Which Far is. But again, more later.

But reading this you did actually ask something of me. I've already answered previous to this post, but I'll say it again. Yesterday I had scumteam pegged as Brantz/Belisarius/Farside, with a dash of Seraphim (now FAQ2) for taste. As I was NK target, does that give my scumreads yesterday a bit more credibility in your opinion, or no?

Flubber, I'm curious. Why did you pass the sword to Mollie N1?

Lucky guess.

I can sense your distrust in me.

Why do you assume that I don't trust you? I just wanted to know why you picked Mollie.
Also, @everyone I suppose, how does Mollie having the sword = Mollie isn't scum? We don't necessarily know that, do we? We don't know that scum having sword = the earth opens up and swallows us whole.

[Elbirn]

Elb: not sure why you are asking for a full claim but whatever.

Celebratory Citizen - VT

are you scum, far?

Nope.

Claiming as asked for a vt claim, I just copied from my role pm and saw my role is already out there from the mod sample.
Hence the this is stupid to ask remark towards elb

And this is why I wanted Far to flavor claim. This is pretty obviously fake.

I'm Vanilla town. I am the Slithy Tove.
Mollie claimed Mimsy Borogove (would have been [hopefully] Vanilla Town before becoming vig).
BRantz was Vanilla Town, and flipped with the flavor of Mome Rath.

See the pattern? It's all subjects taken from the poem. Farside had to claim Vanilla Town or one of the obvious scum roles, because everything else was taken and she didn't want to counter claim someone elses. So she had to take the example from opening post. Poem copy/pasted below. There is no celebratory citizen. Even if we can extrapolate that there are implied celebratory peoples at the death of the Jabberwock, I really don't think GM would have included her example role pm. The fact that she goes off about "lul all the vanillas were celebratory citizens right guizzzee?" also strikes me as very fake, especially when we already had a vanilla town flip with a different flavor. I would believe duplicates of Toves/Borogoves/Raths for the vanilla towns before I would believe that there's a "celebratory citizen".

This is a fake claim. Farside is scum.

'Twas brillig, and the

slithy toves

Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All

mimsy

were the

borogoves

,
And the

mome raths

outgrabe.

"Beware the

Jabberwock

, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the

Jubjub bird

, and shun
The frumious

Bandersnatch

!"

He took his

vorpal sword

in hand:
Long time the

manxome foe

(?) he sought—
So rested he by the

Tumtum tree

,
And stood awhile in thought.

And as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the

tulgey wood

(?),
And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! and through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

"And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my

beamish boy

!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!"
He chortled in his joy.

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

[Elbirn]

Town conditional lynch proof.

I believe that

my "condition" is the vorpol sword must not be in the wrong hands. I assume this goes away when scum get the sword. I may even die immediately if they aquire it.

VOTE: FA_Q2

Conditional lynchproof as long as the vorpol sword is in the right hands. This lynch will prove my town status even if you are wasting a lynch with it.

How did we go from "I THINK my condition is", to "Yeah this is my condition".

What does your role PM say, FAQ2?

[Elbirn]

Yeah I'm 100% not on board with lynching FAQ2. I don't want to waste 2 lynches on what could be some bad scum gambit.

Pros:
-FAQ2 might not be lying, and he might have a correct interpretation of his hella ambiguous role, and this might conftown him and/or VM. Maybe. (In case you couldn't tell by the amount of wishywashiness here, I don't buy this)

Cons:
-We waste a lynch
-Every time we lynch FAQ2 for a pseudo-cop result, we are wasting *another* lynch and risking team scum getting the vorpal blade. As in, if we ever even get a "guilty" (FAQ dying to lynch), it means scum has the blade, and who knows what kind of bullshit that's going to get us into.

Imo the right play here is to...

1. Ensure the blade remains in the hands of town. So far we know that Flubber, Titus, and myself are town. Titus probably dies tonight, being the doctor. Soz Titus. VM is probably town(?) but can't pass to him/her/themself. I think Tier is town based on axl's wagoning him, but idk if anyone agreed with me on that.

Ideal sword passing = Flubber/Tier/Me as candidates?

2. Lynch Beli/Far/TSO. Pick one. I don't even care anymore. I want blood at this point.

-I see scum Beli from the game I played with him (not to mention he practically scum claimed when he said I was "taking credit" for pointing out him dropping false associatives).

-Far is lying about her flavor role when it's pretty clear that all Vanilla towns were Toves/Borogoves/Raths, probably 2 of each, and then she comes out with "lul celebratory citizen". (Like seriously if that's not a lie I will write you a 400 word apology straight to your inbox, and on my way there I will kick GoodMorning in the shin).

-And TSO, (though perhaps not wholly at fault here, cuz Titus was pushing the whole thing), when faced with "Claim cop or stfu", did neither, making ambiguous statements that could have been taken either way.

[Elbirn]

I think she meant top 3 for lynching.

Also Far, if you're town you will get an apology letter, pinky pwomise.

Also while I'm fluffposting I miss Witness Protection. I feel like I haven't seen him in weeks.

[Elbirn]

I'm uneasy with wp Simply having no name. Especially when my early, d1 tentative townread was based on a belief that he was crumbling his flavor. On phone of course so can't quote or whatever. But early d1, in his ramblings, he said something about oysters, which somehow corresponded to one of the 3 creatures. Yeah. That's why I thought I knew his flavor.

[Elbirn]

In the poem? Zero. Why?

[Elbirn]

....... What if FAQ2 is lynchproof scum, and "the wrong hands" are WP's.

Spoiler:

[Elbirn]

I'm uneasy with wp Simply having no name. Especially when my early, d1 tentative townread was based on a belief that he was crumbling his flavor. On phone of course so can't quote or whatever. But early d1, in his ramblings, he said something about oysters, which somehow corresponded to one of the 3 creatures. Yeah. That's why I thought I knew his flavor.

I thought he was crumbing his flavour too!

What was your thought based on? Like where did you think he was crumbing?

[Elbirn]

My gut is screaming at me Beli/FAQ2/VM with the possibility of one being a townbeard. I just want to run down all options.

What the flimflam is a townbeard

[Elbirn]

I have to say I think it extremely strange that I am a Borogove and WP is a Mimsy Borogove.

...Now that you mention it, it seems a bit off. If there's duplicates of the 3 flavor creatures, as I've hypothesized, it still wouldn't make sense for there to be two types of Borogove. Unless GM didn't want us to play the "out everyones flavors and lynch who doesn't fit" game and did that on purpose. But then why would Tiershift and I *both* be "Slithy Toves"? And we have two "Mome Raths" don't we?

[Elbirn]

thanks for helping me bus him

Is lynching all scum claims a thing?

[Elbirn]

Lickerish Lad

So I'm just gonna keep my vote on Belisarius like a stubborn child until he's lynched.

As you were, ladies and gentlemen.

[Elbirn]

Mollie, give me your three that you will pass the sword to.

I don't think this is a good idea. If she announces publicly who she's going to pass to, scum will NK one of those three in hopes of getting the sword.

Does day end if we lynch the unlynchable?

I believe so. Majority vote = day phase ends, mod posts the outcome for today (which in this case would simply be no kill), and then we move to night.

[Elbirn]

Jesus christ I forgot Yakko even existed. I am fine with policy lynching him. I still prefer beli obviously. But yeah. Yakko is worthless.

Tso, I need a reread. I've gotta be honest I took on too many games at once, and with this game slowing down and me being conftowned I haven't had my head in this game. the whole cop thing still stinks to me

[Elbirn]

Does this mean no Beli today? Cuz I want Beli today.

Oh fuck it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hi Im Yakko

[Elbirn]

Me neither. Probably because he's useless. Me? I want blood right now. This game is stagnating.

[Elbirn]

I'd rather lynch beli, why is everyone off him in a heartbeat?

VOTE: beli

Get Beli to L-1 and I'll hammer him. Otherwise I'm fine with a Policy lynch on Yakko for today.

[Elbirn]

VOTE: belisarius

As promised

[Elbirn]

Oh bollocks I missed farsides vote

Will I ever win

[Elbirn]

Wait

What

[Elbirn]

Nonsense and entropy, basically.

[Elbirn]

We kewl Mollie, I guess I was just kinda out of sorts that day, and I read your comment as being a bit antagonistic. I shouldn't have gotten so pissy. I'm not one to hold grudges over stupid stuff anyway, and youz good people. Would play with again. ^_^

Pic related it's us

[Elbirn]

Yea! I was right about yakko!

The hammer by beli completely threw me off at the end.

Gg people.
Oh elb, elb dear you owe me a pm with a nice apology.

Oh.
Uhm uhm uh
Ya see the thing is you didn't flip town, per se, as you didn't die. You just were town. I didn't kill you so I'm off the hook! *runs away*

[Elbirn]

Yea! I was right about yakko!

The hammer by beli completely threw me off at the end.

Gg people.
Oh elb, elb dear you owe me a pm with a nice apology.

Oh.
Uhm uhm uh
Ya see the thing is you didn't flip town, per se, as you didn't die. You just were town. I didn't kill you so I'm off the hook! *runs away*

How about a much shorter and in thread apology?

Dear Far,
I am a dumb butt who should stop playing "outguess the mod", for it is not good play. You were totally not scum but I didn't care because I tunnel vision the crap out of people. I will reflect on this fact and hopefully stop being a dumb butt in the future.

Love from your biggest fan,
Elby

[Elbirn]

Yo so I was just looking for a post axlegreaser made where he was talking about Skip and Farside points and babbling about VM and Guy hydra, cuz it made me laugh and I wanted to point it out. And it's gone. Like it legitimately does not exist in this thread anymore. What happen

[Elbirn]

Anyway, I never said gg. So gg everyone, you're all good peeps and I enjoyed playing with you.

Team Scum, you guys played a good game imo, that suicidal modifier on Axl really screwed everything because frankly I would have never seen him as scum. I was pretty convinced he was town D1, him flipping scum D2 was honestly surprising to me.
Beli, 'tis a pleasure as always. Hopefully we both roll town one of these days, I want to see a town Beli.
Yakko, maybe it was just me, but you did a beyond impressive job of flying under the radar. I honestly forgot you were in this game at a point. I think I need to take a page out of your book next time I roll scum.