Open 591: C9++, The Lunatic Ayslum (Game Over: Town Win!)

[Lucky2u]

/confirm

[Lucky2u]

as I am an IC I don't have to participate in RVS Woohoo!

...

but now I have a whole crapload of pressure on my shoulders. Good luck fellow townies!

[Lucky2u]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

Were you not informed that you should confirm in-thread?

... Was that worth a vote?

[Lucky2u]

I think I have played with only 2 of you before- Red Coyote and

Lucky2u

. In ongoing games with two of the others.

I am in the process of catching up but I had to stop and hate on this post for the gross misspelling of my name...

~~~I see no fault. ~~~

[Lucky2u]

I think I have played with only 2 of you before- Red Coyote and

Lucky2u

. In ongoing games with two of the others.

I am in the process of catching up but I had to stop and hate on this post for the gross misspelling of my name...

~~~I see no fault. ~~~

Many apologies to you good knight.

~~~Thank you for being so kind to our resident hallucinant. These asylums house all sorts of strange people.~~~

Out of the kindness of my heart I've fixed that horrific spelling mistake. Am I not a generous God?

This mod is truly a kind god...

[Lucky2u]

People who aren't voting right now, why ?

Those are just the latecomers+ Innocent child but your question is just as valid as ever, why haven't they got around to it? (minus IC that is)

Is the implication that as the IC I can decide to not vote but other players have to so that they show their motives? Clearly since the only confirmed town player is doing something, the behavior can't be seen as too suspicious.

[Lucky2u]

Spoiler:

(...) at the early stages of a game where there isn't much info I treated it as more of a scum move than town move.

Turns out, this (#91) is the first and only place he references voting me to gather information. I find it suspicious how related to my own talk of information gathering in #70

Acutally, that is incorrect. In 81 I make a reference and in 91 and 105 I say exactly that:

used it as an oppurtunity to try and get some information early in the game.

As I said before it was early in the game and I voted for him to get more information so I could make a proper decision.

As for me copying what you said in 70 that is also not true.

I don't like Collatz' response to this though. I'm an obvious target because of my vote hopping, and he's taking full advantage of this to make a case against me without questioning whether it's actually a scumtell. What merit does vote hopping this early in the game have to scum that it doesn't have to town? What would make scum more inclined to vote hop than town? I don't know, and I don't think Collatz knows either. I think he's just looking for an easy way to seem pro-town.

Throughtout your entire ISO I can't find any mention of information gathering so could you link me to the post. Otherwise this argument here doesn't hold up.

Essentially, Collatz is admitting that—in hindsight—my play wasn't particularly alignment indicative. What I'm trying to think through is whether a newer player would pick up on this in the initial stages of the game. Of course my play could have been seen as suspicious at first glance, especially in the early stages where not much else is going on. I'm thinking that newer-player-Collatz is more likely to have tried to exploit it for its suspicious look than actually challenging me due to him viewing me as scum.

I freely admit there is nothing alignment indicative in your vote hopping but it was early in the game (still RVS) and it confused me as to why you would do it. As I've said before I din't find it to be either a town move or scum move and so I treated it as a scum move and voted for you to put you under pressure and to get more information so I could get a better read. on you.

Read through his iso and you'll find that he spent the beginning talking about how it was so scummy, bla bla bla.

If you read through my ISO you will find I didn't spend the beginning called you scum. I only actually said that you were really scummy at onence (68) and I did so because I voted for you in 29 and 39 posts later you still hadn't responded to my vote and I thought outright stating I believed you to be scum would make you more likely to respond (and I was right).

So by now we've established that Collatz doesn't know how my actions were scummy. Apparently his view is that town has a stronger desire to not stand out than scum. This is the opposite of what is actually (or should actually) be the case.

I'm gonna try and explain this but it probably wont come out right. Vote hopping is a suspicious and I believe town are more likely to want to avoid being suspicous than town are. Why? Because scum players only try to appear as town and if they are caught it doesn't matter to them as much because whilst they will be out the game they have not been unjustly lynched. If a town player was accused of being scum it would feel worse for them because they are being wrongly accused. Because a town player doesn't want to be wrongly accused I do believe they are less likely to do anything suspicous. Hopefully someone can follow my reasoning. If not I'll try again later. Or maybe my reasoning is completely wrong but it is still what I thought.

I am for a town collatz. I think it's pretty clear that his behavior thus far has been growing pains of joining this SPECIFIC online mafia community. Those of you who have played off this site or IRL should know that this game can be very different depending on who and where you play it. (On a side note, playing it drunk at a Con is probably the best way to play it IRL)

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Darklight

[Lucky2u]

That kind of goes against your name doesn't it?

[Lucky2u]

I am voting you because I find you the most scummy of the players in the game so far. Does that better answer your question?

[Lucky2u]

Lucky2u- Innocent Child

You figured this out all by yourself did you?

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Otolia

[Lucky2u]

I know that feeling. I think we've been scum together before red. I know we've played together, just can't remember it.

[Lucky2u]

OTOLIA, apparently you missed this question (?)

Considering Collatz qualifies as a MS newbie, one could argue that DarkLightA is grasping at anything he can. I've got nothing better to do with my vote so VOTE: DarkLightA

what post do you feel like Dark is "grasping" at straws?

Otolia are you purposefully ignoring this? Answer or my vote won't move on policy.

[Lucky2u]

mod can you kill that double post?

~~~Done~~~

[Lucky2u]

That seems like a veiled threat...

[Lucky2u]

I'm OK leaving my vote where it is. Who wants to join me.

[Lucky2u]

[quote="In post 190, Otolia"]I've tried to meet you halfway...quote]

This is not something that a town player should say. You are not in a sales negotiation.

[Lucky2u]

I've tried to meet you halfway...

This is not something that a town player should say. You are not in a sales negotiation.

[Lucky2u]

204 - Can we not break the fucking game. I hate shit like this. I play Mafia to, you know, actually play.

I don't think this is breaking the game to do. I think it is part of playing the game to do something like this.

[Lucky2u]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I didn't mean to imply you aren't but as I said, mine is different

[Lucky2u]

Multiple people said to lynch zeb if tip flipped scum. He wouldve been lynxhed

Anyway, im putting more effort into thus game.

VOTE: CKD

@redcoyote im always like this day 1. Flips are like coffee for me. I need them to get going.
So are we doing the tier thing?

Looking at your ISO, you stated you were going to put more effort and then didn't. Either your lazy, or this statement was just to get people to stop paying attention to you.

VOTE: RM

[Lucky2u]

Am I wrong? I think Reubus would be the lynch leading to the least tears.

If you can show me that everyone is OK with Reubus being lynched, then no, you're not.

Why does it matter if his assessment that the town would compromise lynch RS is accurate or not? Multiple people have expressed concerns over RS, if you haven't noticed then you need to go back and read.

My question to you would be, is it scummy for him to have been assuming this publically?

[Lucky2u]

mnemonic, I know your play style is usually very lurky, but can you get in the game a little more. It bothers me that I went and looked at the last vote count and forgot you were in this game...

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Reubus

I'll join a wagon for cookies. Also because it's probably scum anyway.

[Lucky2u]

GuyInFreezer will be modding the game from the 3rd to the 7th of April as I'll be away on holiday. Please don't give GiF some mental breakdown.

New goal... give GIF a mental breakdown

[Lucky2u]

What do you expect to achieve with claiming here ? Is the wagon destined to die once he claims PR ? Because if he is scum right now, there is no drawback to claim a PR. And I'm certainly not willing to start a massclaim right now.

You're assuming we would just beleive any PR claim he makes.

[Lucky2u]

Good idea making sure he knows to try and claim PR though.

You can eat rope next.

Also this

[Lucky2u]

Examples Mnemonic?

Asking mnemonic a question? expect a few days wait for the answer.

[Lucky2u]

Examples Mnemonic?

Asking mnemonic a question? expect a few days wait for the answer.

I'm back now lucky. It's been a few years since I've played with you, and I am attempting to be less lurky than back then.

[Lucky2u]

I ...


I'll try to avoid this game for tonight. I'm not particularly for an RS lynch especially considering RM just tried to DayVig someone in a setup where there is no DayVig (for no reason) but his last post was just bad argumentation. So do what you want with that tonight.

Please don't abandon inputting into the game because you don't agree with the lynch. You come across as either distancing scum or childish town. Which do you want to be?

[Lucky2u]

Claim and proposal:

I'm SK, lynch me now or use me as an additional night-kill, if I misbehave feel free to lynch me.

On another note can I have some tips on not being scumread D1? Every single game I have been in I've been scumread quite early (and all of those games I was pro town) and I'd like to avoid being scumread early since that's usually been my downfall.

wow...

[Lucky2u]

woohoo! I am still alive!

[Lucky2u]

sorry guys, coming back with a full read soon

[Lucky2u]

Lucky2U. You are confTown. Is that too much to asked that you participate more ? Your opinion holds that much more value but you look like you were expecting to die in N1 and thus gave up on the game.

I kind of was expecting to die N1, one of the reasons I hate being an IC. However that's not why I "gave up" on the game.

After rereading from the beginning I am fine doing this.

VOTE: Otolia

There is very little in his activity in this game that makes me feel he is town.

[Lucky2u]

I don't appear to be on the list... and I think Otolia is on there twice

~~~Lies >_>~~~

[Lucky2u]

I'm busy today so I'm just posting some general thoughts here until I can get more in depth with the DLA vs Otoila.

The last few pages have made me more sure they don't share an alignment

, but until I really look at it I won't be sure which one is scum.

Mneumonic's responses made me lean scum on him, so whichever of the two above seems Town to me will probably get dropped from my lynch order, and Mneumonic put under the one that's left.

Marcrell, I need your thoughts on the game, both for overall on D1 and for the current game state.

Otoila, I need you to show me what you're seeing differently in BBT's play, and I mean SHOW not TELL because I haven't noticed a change and if you can't show me why you think that I'll assume you're talking out of your ass.

I highly agree with the bolded. So let's lynch Otolia and see which is which

[Lucky2u]

I would not cry if mnemonic were lynched.

Intent to hammer!

uhh... what? I wasn't aware anyone was even at L-1

[Lucky2u]

I don't think I'll be supporting any MD wagon. Everytime I play with him he is a compromise lynch for being a low activity poster and it's never been alignment indicitive. If we lynch him it's because there isn't a better wagon.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: randommidget

He said he'd try and scumhunt in D2 but I'm not really saying that. He also seems to be unable to hold his opinions for more than a day if it seems that other people are questioning them.

What's your read on Otolia?

[Lucky2u]

Personally I think we should be voting for the opportunistic people who jumped on that wagon so quickly...

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: marcell

[Lucky2u]

two, RC, Lucky, and myself.

thanks for including me, I accept your invitation

[Lucky2u]

we are all waiting for you to be lynched

[Lucky2u]

good man random

[Lucky2u]

I would be ok with Otolia as well, but I still prefer Marcell

[Lucky2u]

If Otolia (or anyone else) hammers Marcrell before a full claim the hammer should be treated as a scum-claim and that person will be turbo lynched tomorrow.

Seconded by the IC

[Lucky2u]

What makes you think a claim is pointless? What do you define as a fullclaim vs a claim? What if, say, Marcrell is a cop and can provide investigative results? What's "completely pointless" about that?

I thought he was scum ? But no matter, you're the scum here. That above is the proof.

Please hammer Otolia. It will make it so much easier to speed lynch you tomorrow

[Lucky2u]

As lazy and scummy as it makes me sound, if Otolia is so ready for a hammer that he gave a 4-hour deadline, there's not really much point in me making a case at this point. I have more useful things to do with my time.

I am ok with this, DLA can have a town cookie from me

[Lucky2u]

...you'll get townpoints...

careful with this. Only an IC may give out town points without it being suspicious.

[Lucky2u]

I thought he was scum ? But no matter, you're the scum here. That above is the proof.

Can you explain how the post you quoted points to DLA being scum?

It doesn't matter what marcrell claims.

Let's postulate that he is indeed a town PR. There are 2 roles that are relevant : JK and Cop. Thing is JK is not indicative of alignment, nor is Cop since there may be a Godfather.
Other possibility, he is scum. He claims a PR, we have no way to confirm his claim without a complete fullclaim from everybody.

Since the principal proponent of such a reveal is dead (OH THAT'S CONVENIENT) there is little we can do. Are we going to take what he says at face value despite the fact that we KNOW for sure, it's not going to be useful to town ? Look how convenient it is for DLA to stall if he is scum with marcrell. He votes him so he cannot be accused of being fishy, but still tries to peg me as scum. Saving his buddy much ? Also the mention of cop screams scum-buddy coaching his buddy to a fake-claim. There is no reason to wait for a claim in the present conditions. Doing so only makes the game much harder for town by introducing potential WIFOMs.

it very much matters what he claims. If he claims cop, we will probably still lynch him anyway cause youre right he could be scum lying. However we will get his results before his flips, so if he DOES flip as a cop WE KNOW WHAT HIS RESULTS WERE.

[Lucky2u]

I really don't see how hard a concept that is to understand.

[Lucky2u]

At no point did I say we would write off the possibility of godfather and %100 trust his results even if he flips as a cop. However you are being ridiculous if you think some information doesn't help us. It's Day 2 so he is only going to have ONE result. Let's say it was an innocent on DLA. Then we sure as hell are not lynching DLA for several more days since the likelyhood of there being a godfather (by your own math) is %50 and of him targeting the godfather is 1 out of 11 (since there is never more than one godfather) that means it is a %4.5 chance that his result is wrong. SO STOP RUSHING THE HAMMER YOU DOLT!

[Lucky2u]

You know what screw this, rage wagon on Otolia

VOTE: Otolia

who's with me?

[Lucky2u]

Lucky, since you're voting on the back of this post supposedly, what's not sound about his reasoning?

I think I've explained it fairly well in the above post. However I will expand a little more. Using his claim of %50 of C9++ games having a godfather, having a result that is %4.5 chance wrong and %95.5 chance accurate is valuable information. The fact that he is acting like its certain there is a godfather in this game bothers me because it reads to me as scum who is using his knowledge of scum setup to fake speculation as town.

[Lucky2u]

Oh dear.

Vig, please kill me tonight.

or we could lynch you and vig can kill Marcell tonight.

[Lucky2u]

I get what you are saying, but let's not go crazy here. Otolia is one of those players that you have to tell your brain to shut up and let your heart have a say. He may be ticking the boxes that say scum, but I do not feel it. My gut tells me that's wrong. I'm just telling it like it is. If Otolia was saying all this to

stop

us from lynching Marcrell, then I might see where you are coming from. I do not see scumOtolia making such a big deal over hammering and drawing attention to himself as scum though. Otolia should not be lynched today.

Fine *pout*

VOTE: Marcell

[Lucky2u]

Before the day ends would the IC bless us with a reads list and what he thinks a town/scum flip from Marcrell would imply?

No. I will give a scum list but as an IC I am not telling who I think is town and why because I am not up for consideration for a lynch so that would only serve to tell the scum I am misreading how to keep it up.

[Lucky2u]

DLA move on

[Lucky2u]

This flavor is creepy as hell.

[Lucky2u]

First, why the tunnel?

This is what we in the business call a leading question.

[Lucky2u]

just in case we have anyone wanting to vomit truth here, any doctors out there don't counter claim this. he can be scum trying to draw you out as he dies

[Lucky2u]

hammer hammer hammer!

[Lucky2u]

99% he is scum then. If he isn't... ill say this as it will need to be said. Never self hammer as town. You can still win the game with a town victory and the hammer is a useful tool to helping us find scum. By taking it yourself you deny us.

[Lucky2u]

Btw, in case I die tonight, please sort out Otolia by tomorrow.

[Lucky2u]

I'm not going to lie, I didn't really analyze that association

[Lucky2u]

Rc posts like an IC

[Lucky2u]

oh... well now... I'm still alive? I must be scum innocent child

[Lucky2u]

well atleast I don't need to defend Alchemist anymore...

[Lucky2u]

So that leaves...

DarkLightA
Otolia
curiouskarmadog
Collatz
mnemonicdevice
randomidget
RedCoyote

VOTE: Otolia

[Lucky2u]

Scum vig?

is that your claim bro?

[Lucky2u]

I'll claim first and popcorn?

[Lucky2u]

it occurs to me that the reason I am probably still alive is that my reads are wrong...

[Lucky2u]

Unless someone counter claims, there is no reason not to

[Lucky2u]

Unless someone counter claims, there is no reason not to

That's not really how the setup works. Still there could be 2 vigs and scum got blocked but that's unlikely in my opinion.

Yes that is how this setup works. There were two kills last night. A serial killer is already dead, thus the only possible role responsible is a vigilante. Yes it's possible for there to be 2 vigilantes, but how probable is it they both exist and both chose to target alchemist on Night 2?

[Lucky2u]

What the fuck are you talking about? Cops doctors and Roleblockers would not explain a second death at night. The only possible explanation for a second death at night is serial killer or vigilante and the SK is already dead. Thus, the vig claim that was just made could only be refuted by another vig who is claiming they shot alchemist as well. Since our current claim is of a 1-shot vig, any body counter claiming 1-shot as well would guarantee us having found scum since there is only 1 1-shot

[Lucky2u]

Once we are done with the mass claim, if noone else claims vig, he becomes our second IC.

[Lucky2u]

Lynch random midget, confirm his two results, hunt for goon in the remaining 4 players?

[Lucky2u]

I'd say you're the second-most townie player now behind Lucky.

whoa whoa... your reading me as town?

[Lucky2u]

There is at least one scum among VTs+Mnemonic. I suggest we start with that.

I am ok with this. In fact, I'd want to start with MD to get rid of any possible distraction he will provide in late game.

[Lucky2u]

Lynch random midget, confirm his two results, hunt for goon in the remaining 4 players?

as much as I would like to, it only confirms his result...couldnt one of them still be a godfather?

absolutely. That's why I said we hunt for the GOON in the remaining 4. By the time we get the goon, our player list will have dwindled and we can go after the godfather.

[Lucky2u]

Rest assured everything I said on D2 was in an effort to get Marcrell lynched without letting on that I was a cop. I wanted it to appear that I was just tunneling Marcrell as a VT.

I don't know that I believe this... So in other words... I don't.

[Lucky2u]

well... that was unexpected. Well played town! we did it!

[Lucky2u]

Are you claiming I would have lynched anyone but you in LyLo Otolia? Look at the player list and tell me who you think I would have scum read more than you. HINT: they're is no right answer.

[Lucky2u]

/pre in me for that!

[Lucky2u]

Wow, looking forward to that pokemon game now