Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey guys, will start reading in in about an hour or so.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, starting to read. I know Stoz has been lynched and flipped town.

6 - Like this entrance from Henry.

7 - Equally like this response from Vee.

9 - Dislike this post from Vee. Feels overly defensive.

10/13 - Dislike these posts from Joram. Seems defensive of Vee early on and this feels like a chainsaw attack on NS.

It's very curt, it feels moreso like nervous stepping in (see, the guy who siad "Hiiiiiiiiiiii Everybody." in the game I linked. What did he flip?)

This is really bad from NS though. NS is implying here that whenever somebody says 'Hi' they always flip scum. Like, he is trying to say he has never seen anyone who said 'Hi' in their first post flip town. I can see him using this as a reason to push out of RVS but I'm making a note of it because I really don't like the way he has gone about it.

23 - More good posting from Henry. Might have my first town read right here.

He's welcome to his opinion/

guess

. I don't see it as misconstruing since i can't confirm your reasoning. From my pov its just your word against his.

Small note on the wording - 'guess' implies he knows Jorma to be town. Scum don't guess, they know.

37 - This is serious try harding from Thespio and feels like it's an attempt to impress/gain town cred. Not to mention his reads are crazy. I don't see how he is town reading Vee, I don't get the scum read on Henry, read on NS makes no sense and feels like it should be a town read?, don't understand the link between Aku and Vee. If anything, Jorma has gone out of his way to defend Vee early on. Feels like Jorma should be a null read and his read on Micc is plain weird (though I see later this is described as a gut read)

48 - Disagree with NS about fear of IC being a town tell. I feel it's much more likely to come from scum - scum perceive the IC to be their biggest threat.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

50 - Joram, I'm pretty sure you said that NS was striking you as 'very, very suspicious. This unvote makes no sense to me. Especially when you seem to have nowhere better to place it.

64 - This vote stood out to me. It stood out to me because the general consensus in the game at this time was that Thespio was coming across pretty scummy, however, not many people were voting for him. The timing of Micc's vote irks me because it looks like he has surveyed the game state and decided that a lynch might be going Thespio's way and he wants to get on that wagon early. It's opportunistic. I also dislike that he neglects everything else going on in the game.

I mean, I agree that Thespio's reads list was pretty bad but it's by no means the scummiest post in this game up to this point.

67 - Wow, I mean, what the hell is this? Joram is by far and away the scummiest player so far and right now I'm questioning a) why he hasn't got anyone pressuring/voting him and b) why the hell he didn't get lynched D1.

74 - Aku, why would you excuse any sort of scum slip? Surely by pressuring the people who you think slipped this helps you to determine whether they are newbtown or it was a genuine scum slip, no?

86 - This is a sheep of Thespio's argument from Joram.

I found it interesting how JoramanVugt basically aped all of Thespio's arguments against me (with the edifying addition of "idk you just seem to suspicious to me"). Could be a possible connection there.

This. Though I disagree there is a connection, I would say it's highly unlikely both scum approach the game in this way. Much more likely that it's one scum/one town or both town. Thinking it's Thespio town and Joram scum right now.

3: this is an indicator, if someone is constantly swapping views then they are hurting town, and look scummy to me.

Disagree. Scum are much less likely to consistently swap views/change opinions - it draws too much attention on themselves. Scum try to stay consistent and say and do the right things to avoid unwanted attention.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

109 - Yeah, I don't get Thespio unvoting Henry when he is 'obvscum'.

111 - This is a bad post, I feel Henry has been fairly clear with the reads he has produced and I've had no problem following his posts/thought process. This vote is purely because Henry voted you.

126 - Aku, I feel like after this post you should be voting Joram and I'm left wondering why you didn't.

It's late now and I'm tired. I will continue catching up at some point tomorrow.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Five bucks says bbt finishes his catchup and votes me

(not actually this is a figure of speech)

You seem paranoid.

hey its bbt!

looking forward to arguing in circles with you about stubbs.

I won't be talking about Stubbs. At all.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And it goes on... I like Thespio for scum still. His case isnt strong at all and the unvote revote doesnt feel natural for town.

Since when is presenting a bad case a scum tell?

Also, his unvote and revote feels like he plays on emotion. I think this is much more likely to come from town than scum; it's too risky for scum to switch up their viewpoint like that. They usually try to appear more consistent.

Most of pages 7 and 8 was Micc attacking Stubbs (with Bulba supporting in the background) and Thespio, Aku and NS questioning Micc's push/defending Stubbs. I don't really see where Micc is coming from with his case on Stubbs...it feels like he is reaching pretty hard to find reasons to scum read the slot. I'm obviously coming from a biased viewpoint so I don't really want to say much more on this other than it gives me scum vibes from Micc.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

204 - This is the first of two posts where Bulba is trying hard to hold onto his Stoz scum read. Like, he doesn't even engage with anything Stoz is posting.

210 - If you truly believe Henry to be scum, why are you not pushing him? How do you expect to get your scum read lynched if you're content to sit on the sidelines because nobody believes you?

I find it odd that you have no other reads either. You have only managed to develop one read (and a vague read at that) in 9 pages?

212 - There are so many things that irk me in this reads-list from Thespio.

I don't get the scum read on Aku. You say it's based on gut but then provide reasoning for your read. Which is it?

You're also giving a lot of leeway to Joram, I don't understand this given your generally aggressive approach to the game so far.

You say Bulba is town; why?

Same for Henry; why is he town?

You also have NS (not science) as an unsure read. Why are you not engaging him to develop a read?

Micc pointed this out, but you appeared to be scum reading him the last time he posted. Also, how exactly has Micc helped you?

215 - More explanation from Bulba for why he is vote parking on Stoz. This is making me feel really uneasy, he is skating by generally unnoticed as he isn't engaging many other people and instead is sitting on Stoz.

225 - I find it very difficult to see this post coming from scum. It's far too aggressive/antagonistic.

237 - Beetlejuice. Joram seems to pop up only when he is mentioned. He still persists with his Henry is scum and I have no other reads stance as well.

241 - I hate random reads-lists like this. Why are you reading people the way you are? What purpose does this reads-list serve other than to appear pro-town?

245 - Joram, you're not scummy because you voted for Henry (well, that is part of the reason). The other reasons I'm thinking you're scum is because you're not showing any progression in your read and for a read you seem so confident in, you're not pushing it at all. You seem content to vote park on Henry and let the rest of the game pass you by whilst you make as little noise as possible.

Also, I find your proposal of a Thespio/Henry scum team flat out laughable. If that's scum theatre, I'll hang up my mafia keyboard.

249 - Thespio, this looks like a policy vote. There are numerous reasons for why you could be voting Joram but 'extended absence' and 'the town being better off without him' are not those reasons.

I do like the 'lack of original reasons' and 'lack of reads' reasons although your vote seems to boil down to 'Joram is harming town' and not Joram is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, got stuff to do. I'll try and continue catching up later today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

250 - Joram, you seemed convinced that Henry was scum, what changed?

261 - NS jumping on Stoz wagon right after Micc states he has Stoz in his lynch pile strikes me as scummy.

267 - NS using Micc as a shield for his jump onto the Stoz wagon.

268 - Bulba, you're not doing anything either. Stoz might not be doing anything to change your read but you're not doing anything further to engage him. You're also not engaging many other players outside of Stoz so it's difficult to gauge where your reads are at at any given point in the game.

269 - Thespio, your reason for jumping on the Stoz wagon is 'he isn't playing well'...really? Then you throw in the comment about Jorma being looked at Tomorrow...This is a scummy post.

270 - Now Joram jumps on the Stoz wagon; that wagon developed quickly. Joram also jumps onto the wagon that his apparent #1 scum read joined (Thespio). Why would you follow your top scum read onto a wagon?

271 - It bugs you so much that you're going to do nothing about it? Fantastic.

276 - And you're not voting Joram or pursuing this further because...

284 - Making note of this post for future reference. I have a theory behind what NS is doing but it relies on associatives and they're weak before the relevant flips have been made so I'll hold onto it for now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

301 - I think this is the first post from Joram that makes me think he is town. Having said that, I'm a sucker for AtE posts.

310 - This is quite the U-Turn from Thespio on Stoz and it comes right after Micc stating he is against the Stoz wagon. There is a trend between Thespio and Micc; see if you can spot it. I don't understand why you didn't vote for Joram in this post Thespio?

311 - All of your reasons for scum reading Stoz still seemed to apply at the time of this post so I don't get the sudden change in read at all. Again, Jorma is hardcore scum and you're still not voting him...

322 - Ah, you finally vote Joram, funnily enough, this comes after a couple more people start pressuring/questioning him. Your vote here is opportunistic and you do this a lot, you go with the flow of the game making little waves.

You're seriously buddying the IC as well (hint; that was the trend I spotted). I'm surprised Micc hasn't picked up on it.

325 - Bulba, why is Joram town? You're hard defending this slot and I don't understand why.

340 - He is? Last I saw, you were wanting to lynch him because of his supposed slip. What changed?

346 - More buddying of the IC. Why are you asking Micc if he supports a NS lynch? If you want an NS lynch, why are you not voting him? You consistently survey the scene and test the waters before committing to a stance.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

370 - Again, Thespio goes with the flow. Joram is coming under pressure and there's Thespio with another vote. This is becoming a common theme and I think it's likely coming from scum.

I honestly think both Thespio and notscience are scum

I agree with this.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

436 - Joram, can you explain how and why this read on Stoz changed please?

438 - This is your first decent reasoning for town reading Joram. However, it doesn't explain your earlier town read that you held as solid and on p17 you were starting to flap on it.

445 - Bulba comes under some scrutiny and BAM! he becomes Thespio's top scum read...Just. Like. That. Seriously, this is just getting ridiculous now.

449 - What? I mean, WHAT?!?! You spend the whole game stating Joram is town over and over and over again and then you vote for him from nowhere. That vote is absolutely absurd.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

478 - Joram, you seem pretty sure Stoz is town and yet you sit with your vote on him.

483 - Micc, why Stoz? As far as I was aware, you had both Jorma and NS as lynch choices before Stoz (425).

545 - What? Would love an explanation for why Henry is scum NS.

553 - Why NS Bulba?

UNVOTE: notscience Im so split between bulba and notscience...

More of the 'following game thread from Thespio. This post comes not long after Aku votes Bulba.

The jumping on/off the NS wagon from Thespio is suspicious as fuck. I'm not sure what it means yet though, I just know it doesn't look right.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

601 - Bulba, the base for your scum read on Stoz is weak. It's nowhere near strong enough for you to hold onto throughout the entirety of D1 in the manner that you did.

602 - Saw this vote coming.

606 - Bulba, do you have scum meta for Aku or are you making baseless guesses?

I'm confused that you're scum reading Stubbs for sheeping the general majority and null reading Thespio when Thespio has spent the entire game doing just that.

631 - This post feels town. Scum don't admit that their actions can be perceived as having scummy motivations.

672 - This is awful reasoning for your switch in vote.

673 - Thespio, are you getting bored because you realize I am scum reading you?

681 - Can you clarify how NS is acting suspicious? Also, can you state why you think arrogance is a scum tell as opposed to it coming from town?

Alright, I'm fully caught up. I'm pretty freaking sure that Henry is town, I'm also pretty sure that Aku is town. Micc feels town, I really like some of his posting.

That leaves NS, Bulba, Thespio and Joram. I like Joram for town, this is based on a couple of posts that I just find really difficult to see coming from scum. His overall play is scummy though.

I believe if we lynch Bulba/NS/Thespio we win the game. I don't particularly care what order but my strongest scum read is Thespio.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not talking for Stubbs nor will I give my thoughts on his actions.

What do you expect to achieve from that?

VOTE: NS

I believe this is L-1.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK.

I hereby confirm that my slot is town.

Are we done?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I might explain post game. I'm not doing it now.

I'm voting NS because I think he is scum and he has the biggest wagon.

Also, he bet 5 bucks I would vote him and I want him to win 5 bucks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You obviously haven't been reading my catch up if you think I have no reasons for thinking NS is scum.

I'm not explaining why I'm town. That's for other people to decide, not for me to tell.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey Thespio, you seemed intent on voting NS earlier.

You should absolutely hammer him now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I dont have a reason to, i think this is an opportunistic lynch, Joram you should remove your vote so he cant be quick hammered.

Oh, you had reason to earlier in the DP though? Why has this changed?

Can you explain what exactly is opportunistic about this lynch on NS?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thespio, given post 99, what am I to make of your consistent switching of votes/reads/opinions?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

PEDIT: its odd you come it, drop how im your biggest suspect and then dont vote me but try to appeal to me for a quick lynch.

NS didnt change his vote because Joram looked town to him, i did the same thing with Stoz. I didnt support his lynch in the end because i didnt see him as scum.

This is opportunistic for you, you think i shift based off of opinion, but its more based off of who i feel portrays scum. And I think you are.

PEDIT; PEDIT: Post 99 was early in the game, and i was referring to votes that aren't justified.

I wont support a NS, lynch unless he gives me a reason, or you give me a read on Stubbs and I agree with the methodology.
VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

I wonder why I'm trying to goad you (one of my scum reads) to hammer NS (another one of my scum reads)...I wonder why I might do that...

I mean, you were happy go lucky early in the Day, voting, unvoting, voting, unvoting. I'm simply asking that you place another vote on NS. I don't know why you're speaking for NS either...

Can you explain why you think I'm scum?

I don't care when the post was. You said vote hopping and quick changes in views was scummy and yet here you are; doing those very actions all over the thread.

How strange...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh, those posts came AFTER you voted me though and therefore cannot be used as your reasoning because they didn't exist at the time.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you explain how my 'overall actions' are scummy. That's a generic term, you should make it more explicit.

I told you I'm not voting without reason. You clearly haven't read my catch up otherwise you wouldn't be saying this. I'm guessing you lost interest in my catch up once you saw I was scum reading you and now you're going to try and get rid of somebody who you perceive as a threat. I have noted you have no responded to a single accusation I made against you.

It has been explained that looking at my predecessor achieves nothing. You clearly cannot see this.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thespio, I don't need to convince you that your buddy is scum.

I just need town to see it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You can vote when you're ready. I was simply asking you to repeat an earlier action that you seemed set on.

My vote is fully supported.

1) Agreed. You're my biggest scum read.
2) Partially correct. Didn't vote for you because one of my other scum reads had a bigger wagon and I don't particularly care which of you gets lynched first.
3) I don't believe I called you dumb, if you quote it, I will apologize. My vote is fully supported, this can be found in my catch up.
4) The hammer made a lot of sense. Unless you don't want to lynch scum? You were happy to vote NS earlier, I thought you would have been happy to hammer him.
5) Correct, it would not matter one iota what my comments on my predecessor are because they are inherently biased and provide no information.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's because I have just finished catching up and I really don't feel like repeating myself after reading near 30 pages in a short space of time when the information is right there for anyone who cares to look for it.

I'm rushing the day because I want to lynch scum. Why are you refraining from hammering NS?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have explained why I'm not voting you.

Are you reading?

I mean, you don't answer any of my questions and you didn't respond to a single accusation in my catch up. Why is that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I aimed plenty of accusations at you in my catch up, or did you miss those as well?

I justified my vote in my catch up.

I want to lynch scum.

Can you quote where I am appealing to Joram please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Cool.

When you get back, can you answer my accusations aimed at you during my catch up?

Thanks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I find this funny, because one of that's one of the contributing reasons why I think thespio is town. His criteria for scum can be used to describe himself. It's this absurd mindset and play that have me doubt thespio could be mafia.

It was also one of the reasons I was initially thinking he could be town. He seems to play on emotion, but I now think that's play-style and he would do the exact same thing as scum so therefore it becomes null.

The problem is the timing of his reads. They are convenient and 'go with the flow'. The majority of his reads are sheeping somebody else/multiple people and it means he makes as little noise as possible by going along with the general consensus. It's a very basic tactic that scum use to lay low and not draw any attention.

What do you think about Thespio refusing to respond to any of my accusations towards him during my catch up?

bBT has been towning it up, so I can not sort the slot out well for now. It has come back to a null read. But I will keep my eyes on you!

If I was towning it up, surely that means I am a town read? This reeks of you trying to keep your lynch pool as wide as possible.

Blue on the other hand will not justify himself and when questioned refers to something that i dont see even exists, and when questioned further shuts down all convo and simply says "you must not have read my recap". All I want from him is justification and ultimately him to tell us what he read Stubbs actions as, at this point it is to late though. If he had said "Stubbs was scummy" I would have thought he was pro town, However he wont even try. Bulba Im still eh, on, I think its odd blue brought him up as likely scum, And NS, but is only pushing NS. ITs literally ad populum. He is voting where the bandwagon is, and were it will likely go. But he hasnt made any push towards bulba...

Why does not justifying myself make me scum? (I have justified everything I have said but I'm humoring you). I have just finished catching up on a 30 page game and you wanted me to go back and reread all of my posts when they were right there for you to read. If you can't be bothered to look, why should I? I don't need to convince you to vote NS, I don't think you're the bussing type. I need the rest of town to understand what I'm saying.

You have been told multiple times by multiple people that me commenting on my own slot means absolutely nothing. You can gain no information from it, I bet if your buddy Micc the IC (clarification; not scum buddy) tells you the same thing you'll back off then, right?

Why is it odd I brought Bulba up as scum? Are you town reading him? If so, why? I'm pushing NS because I think he is scum and he has the biggest wagon out of all of my scum reads. Do you have a problem with this?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, that reeks of me saying your reads and position are scummy.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's very curt, it feels moreso like nervous stepping in (see, the guy who siad "Hiiiiiiiiiiii Everybody." in the game I linked. What did he flip?)

This is really bad from NS though. NS is implying here that whenever somebody says 'Hi' they always flip scum. Like, he is trying to say he has never seen anyone who said 'Hi' in their first post flip town. I can see him using this as a reason to push out of RVS but I'm making a note of it because I really don't like the way he has gone about it.

Five bucks says bbt finishes his catchup and votes me

(not actually this is a figure of speech)

You seem paranoid.

241 - I hate random reads-lists like this. Why are you reading people the way you are? What purpose does this reads-list serve other than to appear pro-town?

261 - NS jumping on Stoz wagon right after Micc states he has Stoz in his lynch pile strikes me as scummy.

267 - NS using Micc as a shield for his jump onto the Stoz wagon.

271 - It bugs you so much that you're going to do nothing about it? Fantastic.

276 - And you're not voting Joram or pursuing this further because...

284 - Making note of this post for future reference. I have a theory behind what NS is doing but it relies on associatives and they're weak before the relevant flips have been made so I'll hold onto it for now.

545 - What? Would love an explanation for why Henry is scum NS.

Thespio, be sure to click the links and read my posts in context.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because I believe we win the game if we lynch NS/Thespio/you. Therefore, I'm not particularly concerned in what order we lynch you.

My preference would be Thespio>Bulba>NS. But, c'est la vie.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What? Are you just saying random sentences now? I cannot follow your posts/thought process at all.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Henry needs prodding. This game is slowing right down because NS isn't here to respond to his wagon.

Micc looks like he is stalling as well and that's scummy.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, catching up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Couple of things before I respond to Thespio's post;

2. Some of those accusations don't explicitly mention thespio, and I doubt he clicked the links, so he most likely skipped over them. thespio only looks and focuses on anything he could use for his cases and for the most part ignores the rest (ahhhh so scummy...b-but I still think he's town @_@).

Aku, I need you to explain that Thespio town read.

No, I read him as scum as well, its odd you accused him but you have left him out at the same time. Push NS all you want but if you read bulba too then you need to explain why NS is worse then Bulba.

Your vote seems to fall into the same category as what you accuse me of as well, you are sheeping, you have no support that you can show (Yes i know you have a recap but its not in there). On top of that you are jumping on a wagon literally because you see it as a popular wagon, that is your support for ending the day.

You think it's odd that I scum read Bulba but have not explained it and yet I've done the very same thing to you. The fact is, I will lynch any of you and right now NS is the most likely to get lynched and I'm super happy to do that. I'm not sheeping anyone, I have shown why I think NS is scum. I am voting NS because he is the leading wagon out of my scum reads. If Henry was the leading wagon, I would not vote him. If Joram was the leading wagon, I would not vote him etc etc. If one of my scum reads is a leading wagon, you better believe I'm coming along for the ride.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

At the end of this BBT states that swapping views is a towntell for him, however he drills me for it. It seems inconsistent

Correct, I did state this. However, not all the same tells apply to the same people. I explained this further to Aku here;

I find this funny, because one of that's one of the contributing reasons why I think thespio is town. His criteria for scum can be used to describe himself. It's this absurd mindset and play that have me doubt thespio could be mafia.

It was also one of the reasons I was initially thinking he could be town. He seems to play on emotion, but I now think that's play-style and he would do the exact same thing as scum so therefore it becomes null.

It looks like BBT is trying to appeal to joram even though he was scum reading him earlier on.

That is in no way an appeal to someone and you appear to be scum reading me for developing reads...

Theres no link to this, is it bad that im trying not to tunnel? Should I ignore people to tunnel one person? You just said earlier this was scummy, but you dont think so anymore?

I haven't even mentioned tunneling. You still haven't responded to my accusation of you buddying the IC or the fact that your reads match the game state all the time.

I agree, this is why i asked him to read himself, You on the other hand wont...

This has been explained to you numerous times. I can't even...

Are you copying HCL? didnt you just scum read me because i was following with everyone else?

Reach harder? I was clearly in the middle of writing a big catch up post and my post came two minutes after Henry's, you cannot seriously try to scum read me for that.

Further, are you admitting it's scummy to follow everyone else?

Pretty sure this ^ is just for aesthetics, you drilled micc most of the game until you decided to focus me, after you noticed joram was easily manipulated.

Stating reads after a catch up is now 'aesthetics'...I honestly don't know how to respond to that.

I believe if we lynch Bulba/NS/Thespio we win the game. I don't particularly care what order but my strongest scum read is Thespio.

But you dont vote me? even when there was over 15 days left @ this post? Yea... your a hypocrite too! you drill me about moving with the public opinion but then you align with them? you literally vote NS because:

Didn't vote for you because one of my other scum reads had a bigger wagon and I don't particularly care which of you gets lynched first.

So basically you Voted with the largest wagon.... Nice, but this would make you fall in your own category of scum.

I'm 80% sure you are scum.

Correct, I voted NS because he is one of my scum reads AND he has the biggest wagon. You're focusing on the wrong parts of the statement...of course, you need to do that because if you accept that I'm actually scum reading NS your whole case on me falls apart.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

They were mostlikely waiting on me, And it doesnt look scummy that micc told us he would be reading and online. How do you see someone keeping you up to date rather then just disappearing as scum behavior?

Because scum like to prod dodge before they are actually prodded. Responding to a prod makes it look like you're lurking, preemptively stopping a prod dodge and declaring you will do ~things~ appears more town.

I thought you were reading him as town.

I still am. Doesn't mean I can't point out things I don't like.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What? I'm now scum with NS?

We should turbo lynch NS and when he flips scum turbo lynch Thespio.

That looks very much like Thespio knows NS is going to flip scum and is trying to tie me to the scum flip.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I honestly don't want to lynch NS, there are better lynches right now. The issue is I think ive talked myself off of NS and partially off bulba. I don't suspect Aku or Micc, BBT I hate you because you are a replacement, While i respect your reads and the fact you went over everything i lean town, the lack off substance behind wanting people lynched concerns me.

First, is this you saying you have no scum reads?

Second, are you saying you're town reading me but want to lynch me because I haven't explained something to your satisfaction? (even though I collected all my thoughts on NS and put them together in one post for you to read. I don't believe you responded to it either).

You want me to hammer and end the day over a week early because you want to lynch scum. Plus you immediately linked me to NS, even though I was the first to show suspicion towards him and honestly if we were scum buddies its much more likely that we would avoid each other not buddy. HCL seems town, Joram seems super newbie but town.

Right, I can be pushy, it nets results. It puts people under pressure and they make mistakes.

I was pushing because I believe both you and NS to be scum (independent of each other) and I noticed you voting/unvoting NS quite a bit throughout the game. Now that it was crunch time for your vote, I wanted to see if you would still vote NS. You wouldn't.

I haven't said you're buddying NS, I said you're buddying Micc (which you're still yet to respond to). Also, it's not uncommon for scum to throw suspicion on their scum buddy when they're under 0 pressure. It's when the voting matters that you really find out where people stand.

Bulba>BBT>NS>Joram>Aku/Micc/Hcl

OK, I was wrong. You're not town reading me. I would lynch Bulba and NS from your top 3 choices. I'm not touching anyone outside of NS/Bulba/you Today.

Overall I would rather have a no lynch then a rushed lynch that becomes a miss-lynch like yesterday. However I think if we are all reading bulba as scum and even bulba sees his actions as scummy we should be looking at him. BBT, I'm waiting for Aku and Micc to get done reading over you, because Stubbs definitely played as scum.

We're not no lynching, that is bad for town.

I agree, we should be looking at Bulba. That is a lynch that interests me, though I suspect we have different reasons as the reason you stated makes me think he could be town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ugh, I kind of want to town read you just because you're here and willing to work with me.

I don't know if that's because nobody else is posting and I want someone to share thoughts with or if it's because I think we can compromise on Bulba and I don't see you bussing your buddy in that scenario.

But if Bulba flipped town I would feel really stupid for not lynching one of you/NS when it would be obvious that this is the route you would take as scum to protect your buddy and take attention away from your voting patterns.

I need help from someone. Can people start posting please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Did you read my catch up? All the reasons are in there.

Is this you coming to talk in an attempt to try and change my read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is 601 still your only reasoning for scum reading NS? Because I find it weak.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you quote where this happened?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't see it...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Micc, you have no reevaluated my slot at all? You're just going to stick with your prelim read on my predecessor?

What do you mean by Aku/Henry being a wash?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I just don't like sitting here and watching a lynch go through that I dont feel good about.

No-one is making you do this; you have the power to suggest a different wagon and propose your reasons for why you think said wagon is better.

I'll wait for you to do that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@BBT, why am I off the scum list despite numerous mentioned scum tells in you catch up?

Also, How much of the overall Thespio scum read is because of NS interactions and how much is Thespio on his own?

This is it? These are the only questions I can find...

You're off the scum list because I like some of your posting. You're off the scum list because there are much better people to lynch than you.

A lot of the Thespio scum read is independent of anyone else.

Now, what was the point of those questions and how was it supposed to help you determine my alignment? Because, as far as I can see, you're simply vote parking on me whilst stating 'Stubbs was scummy' or 'BBT is scum' (or variants of these comments) over and over.

I want a case from you for why I'm scum so that I have something to respond to.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ive stated over and over again that I think you or bulbazoor are better lynches. Short of spamming the thread with posts Im not sure what you expect.

I expect you to tell me WHY they are better lynches; not simply state it like it's fact.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, except I have explicitly stated that if we can get a Bulba or Thespio wagon going I would be interested sooo....

I didn't say Thespio was better than anyone else...I said he was my strongest scum read. I would just as happily lynch Thespio/Bulba as I would NS, I really don't care which order we do it in.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No thanks, I'm happy on the NS wagon.

If Bulba/Thespio picks up steam, count me in.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can see people will vote other people.

Saying and doing are two very different things.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Bulba

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

That timing...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have other opinions outside of you so, you know, can you stop acting like there is nothing to read me off?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

NS, who are you willing to lynch Today and why?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I also don't understand the sudden unvote from BBT, considering I'm the lowest on his lynch priority but Bulba is higher.

The unvote is because of this;

A) As scum, I could have just quickhammered.

I wouldn't expect you to snap-hammer because that would be too obv, but you could have easily wormed your way onto the wagon during your 'catch-up'.

I would like you to respond to my comments on you as well.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll get to this when I can, though it doesn't look like much is happening.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Activity.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I oppose the lynch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You.

I feel like you're very static this game and your reads are stale.

It's making me nervous.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You see what I mean? That proves my point exactly.

I also feel it's very unlikely that Bulba/NS is the scum team.

I'm feeling good about Henry and Aku being town; I'm also reevaluating my Thespio read based on our recent discussion.

That leaves you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

3 hours is midnight for me. I'll try to be around.

I have learned that I cannot read Bulba. At all. The guy is impossible to read.

It's scummy to be static because you're not reevaluating the game state; you just stick to the same reads with the same reasoning over and over again.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Your read on my slot.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: StubbsKVM

You have held this read (citing the same reasoning) since 176. (maybe even earlier)

instead lets talk stubbs and bulba. they are both in my top three as well. Whats your reasoning behind bulba?

You have scum read my slot and Bulba from 547. Never changing.

In fact, after glancing over your ISO I can't see where your scum read on Bulba came from or when it formed.

Can you clarify that for me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: notscience

I am sure this is scum.

Will get to Micc's posts when I can be bothered.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm sheeping you?

That's funny.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I see.

I must be sheeping because I have stated no reasoning for NS being scum anywhere else in the thread.

You're right. I'm sorry for being so bad at this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I really don't want to lynch Bulba.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll let NS do the honours.

Then we can lynch him tomorrow.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nope, I don't think he is scum.

I don't want any part of this lynch. Micc is pushing this lynch and I think Micc is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, I can't read Bulba at all. So I can't sit here and say that I think Bulba is town/scum based off of his own posting - I can only gain any sort of read on him by using associatives based on my reads on other people.

I think both NS/Micc are scum and they're both going to be on that wagon.

I want no part of it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

LOL, so I'm scum no matter what he flips? I mean, how am I saving him? Bulba is Today's lynch, no matter what; how do my actions save him?

Yeah, you're scum. That's pretty bad for a newb to say, nevermind an experienced player such as yourself.

I can't discuss why I can't read Bulba.

I was meant to get to your answers, forgot about that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Now i just think your white knighting if Bulba flips town and saving your buddy if he flips scum.

Everyone should read this sentence carefully.

Micc is lining up lynches.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Your acting like ive been sitting here shouting from the rooftops that BBT slot is scum while making no effort to read you. Reality is that ive read your catchup stated an opinion on it and tried to interact with you.

You have made 0 effort to read me. You said my catch up was 'null', I'm sorry if you class that as an effort to read somebody, I don't. Let's look at your posts regarding my slot since I replaced in;

786 '

BBT catch up struck me as null overall

' and '

Overall, I don't think much has changed for me.

' (Side note; did you ever look back to see if Thespio was buddying you?) So, here we can see you're saying I'm null; hardly an opinion or a read.

820 - '

The way things read to me Im willing to buy that BBT formed genuine scum reads before voting the strongest wagon. That said i know from experience that that isnt hard to fake when replacing in to a scum slot. Overall im pretty meh about it.

' Same again, say something could come from town but could also come from scum, null overall (inferred from the 'meh' comment).

835 - '

Ive stated over and over again that I think you or bulbazoor are better lynches

' and '

In the case of you and bulba I think its pretty telling

'. And, now I'm back to being scum. So, yeah, where is the reevaluation of your read?

This is about all I have for me stating direct reasoning for Bulba read.

snip

Except I asked for your reasoning before you stated Bulba was scum because I don't see where that read come from. So, can you try again?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And you're not lining up lynches?

Nope, because me wanting to lynch NS is not dependent on the flip of someone else. You just said I was scum no matter what Bulba flips; that's lining up lynches.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, but, HCL has switched which means that Bulba is Today's lynch.

Your reasoning for me being able to save my buddy Bulba went out of the window once Henry switched wagons. Wanna try that again?

I would

really

like to lynch NS Today. Or at the very least get some thoughts on Micc.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't understand the question.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I still don't get it.

For me to be trying to associate with you, wouldn't I have to be the person who was under threat of being lynched?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I believe you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Micc happened.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Henry, do you have any thoughts on Micc?

Micc, I quoted what you wrote regarding my slot in those posts - I even linked them. Not sure why you're talking about selective quoting. That's a pretty poor response to what I presented.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It does? I mean, they're both scum so it really doesn't matter who we lynch tomorrow.

NS lynch is for reasons I have stated multiple times.

OK, and you don't see a problem when someone says 'If x is town I'm going to lynch you but even if x is scum I'm still going to lynch you'...

Like, he interprets the same action in two different ways to suit what he needs.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But that's EXACTLY what he's saying.

He has given no reasoning for why I'm scum outside of my predecessor.

How are you not seeing that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Even if his reasoning is weak and never changes?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm voting NS, you can see that right? The only wagon I have avoided is Bulba. My read on Thespio changed and this caused me to reevaluate because I find it highly unlikely that Bulba/NS are scum together.

I realised that during my catch up I got side tracked from Micc quite heavily; which was easy to do because he has laid low the whole game.

PEdit - I showed how long he has been stating Bulba was scum for; I even questioned where that read came from (still waiting for the answer) because it materialised from nowhere.

I realise now that I'm wasting my time though so I'll wait for NS to hammer and maybe people will listen tomorrow.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, because I think he is town.

I think the scum team is NS/Micc. Micc has pushed this wagon to counter the NS wagon. Those two have town read each other for pretty much the entire game and never questioned each other/their read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Henry, you come off of NS to vote Bulba; do you see them as a possible scum team?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lynching for information is bad. Lynching for information over one of your scum reads is even worse.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, so you DO see them as a possible scum team then?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, you're crazy if you think NS/Bulba can be scum together.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I agree we should lynch based off of posting; except the lynch should be NS or Micc.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can't wrap my head around the fact you think it's possible that NS/Bulba is the scum team.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, so am guessing someone was trying to frame me and it just backfired spectacularly.

That's unfortunate for scum. I think I want to lynch Joram Today.

NS is town, that was not scum/scum between him and Bulba. Aku and Henry have been pretty obviously town for a while (though I'm not sure I liked Henry switching to the Bulba wagon now that Bulba has flipped scum). That looks like bussing. I'm still inclined to believe Thespio is town and that leaves Joram.

VOTE: Joram

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You think it was well known Micc was a PR? If so, how?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's not odd when you look at it from both my perspective and Micc's perspective.

I disagree with both of your assertions regarding Aku.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

There is no way NS is scum with Bulba.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll tell you what Thespio, how about I make it super simple for you.

Who do you think Micc jailed?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

When one scum is left you jail who you think it is. Micc would have jailed me, 100%. He knows how to play that role optimally; I'm as close to confirmed town as you can get.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Once people realise I am town this game becomes much easier.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thespio, where did I say Micc town read me?

Read my posts carefully.

PEdit - NS, mass claim is really bad.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because that would have been some serious hard bussing and it just didn't read that way to me.

They basically locked themselves into one of them getting lynched.

PEdit - Thespio, I'm intrigued as to why you believe mass claim is bad?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you explain those reads Aku?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, you had me interested for a second then...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Then you posted something and I calmed down.

Now, can you move your vote off of me and join me on Joram?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You do?

You were very much against it before...what changed?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I was originally going to vote BBT based off the fact that he spent the first half of yesterday calling bulbazoor one of his top lynch choices then opposed it as much as he could when he actually came under threat of being lynched. I also don't like how the first thing he thought to do today was prematurely defend himself from suspicion by saying somebody is trying to frame him.

The eventual point was to show that I'm town. A Micc kill sets myself up to be quick lynched because scum!BBT 100% kills Micc in that situation, no questions asked. However, scum didn't bank on Micc flipping JK and that changes everything and actually clears me instead of implicating me.

I don't think it's wise to lynch based off speculating on who Micc did or didn't jail. We're assuming something is a given that can't possibly be confirmed. If you ask me, Occam's razor would dictate that either BlueBloodedToffee or Joram is scum because they stayed off the Bulba wagon. Evidence points to Micc jailing Stubbs/Bulba on night 1 but I don't think we should assume anything beyond that.

It's not wise to speculate on who Micc did/did not jail and then you go ahead and do it anyway? What you're actually saying is 'Let's not discuss who Micc jailed N2 because that clears BBT' but we can speculate about N1 because that incriminates BBT if we believe Micc jailed my slot and there was no kill. The fact is, it's 10x easier to predict who Micc jailed N2 compared to N1.

Can you explain what evidence points to Micc jailing Stubbs/Bulba N1?

I'd lynch Henry Today. His posts are really pinging me and I'm seriously contemplating lynching him over Joram.

I still think he's town but we have no counterwagon and I have nothing I really feel confident in.

You should do something about this because right now you're not very useful.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's MyLo tomorrow if we mislynch.

Henry isn't arguing his innocence, he is lining up lynches. His U-turn on Joram was ugly as well, I really don't like it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mass claim is a bad idea.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, there is no chance we have a cop (due to Micc's flip)

Still, mass-claiming is bad and there is no reason to do it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah, OK.

That makes sense.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, I'm not sure on Joram. I initially believed it to be him through PoE but I kind of like his recent posting and I think Henry could actually be scum here.

NS, who would you prefer and why?

UNVOTE:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

There are only two possible set-ups with a Jailkeeper - Set up 1 (JK, VTs, Goons) or set up A (JK, Mafia Roleblocker, 1-Shot Bulletproof)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aku, why Joram over Henry?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Henry

Joram is giving off a huge newb town vibes in his latest series of posts.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

His whole attitude of 'just lynch me' is not coming from scum.

That's exasperated town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because he feels like everyone is attacking him and not understanding what he is trying to say?

Is there a single person who hasn't attacked Joram this DP? That's pretty hard to deal with.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thespio started the day attacking Joram.

I don't see how you feel his reaction wasn't warranted. Every person in the game was attacking him, with 3 of us voting for him; how is that not pressure?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know why you think I am explaining his behaviour as him being new.

That's not what I'm saying.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, not much is happening here.

Everyone is waiting to lynch Henry or Joram. Most people seem OK with either; can we get some votes on Henry and start moving this game forward?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, someone should state intent to hammer.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Guys, all we're doing is creating apathy by prolonging Today.

Most people seem OK with both; I don't particularly want to lynch Joram though.

Is anybody against Henry being lynched? If not, state intent.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You should have stated intent allowing him to claim.

Meh.

Fingers crossed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey guys, sorry been super busy.

This is MyLo.

VOTE: No lynch

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, that's anti-town.

There should have been no discussion and instant no lynch so as not to help scum in anyway.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Haha, about time.

I claim 1-Shot BP.

It's between Thespio and Joram for me. I don't see Aku being scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Agree about mass-claiming hurting town - it's why I was very much against it. That doesn't make him scum though.

My problem now is; I have serious trouble believing Joram would kill me. Like, I was the only person defending him...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum would have known I was BP as well which also doesn't make sense.

Actually, with Joram and Aku having claimed VT it would make no sense for scum!Thespio to shoot me because he would know I was VT. If Joram or Aku is scum then it makes sense that they had a 50/50 chance between myself/Thespio of hitting a VT. I thought Thespio was hunting numerous times that he was BP so it makes sense for scum to avoid him and target me instead. Me being almost conf town thanks to Micc's flip provides further reasoning for me being targeted.

OK, it's between Joram and Aku for me. And I'm REALLY struggling to see Aku as scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Actually, with Joram and Aku having claimed VT it would make no sense for scum!Thespio to shoot me because

he would know I was VT

.

EBWOP: He would know I was BP.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No lynching isn't happening. All that happens is I die and I want to win this game Today.

Scum have the option of no killing if they choose to do so.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

There is no WIFOM to be avoided.

Thespio, who do you feel is most likely to be scum out of Joram and Aku?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I need to go back and look at the VCs during this game. Will get to it as soon as I can.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I agree that Aku is most likely to be scum.

Joram never targets me. Ever. You don't target me, unless you were planning on no lynching, which you didn't propose so I feel it's unlikely to be you. That leaves Aku.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Spoiler: D1 VCs

Vote Count 1.10

stoz

(3):

Bulbazoor

, Akuseru,

notscience

JoramvanVugt

(2): StubbsKVM, Thespio

Thespio

(2):

HenryCabotLodge

, JoramvanVugt

StubbsKVM

(1):

Micc

Not Voting

(1):

stoz

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Vote Count 1.11

stoz

(4):

Bulbazoor

,

notscience

, Thespio, JoramvanVugt

JoramvanVugt

(2): StubbsKVM, Akuseru

Thespio

(1):

HenryCabotLodge

StubbsKVM

(1):

Micc

Not Voting

(1):

stoz

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Vote Count 1.12

JoramvanVugt

(4): StubbsKVM, Akuseru,

stoz

, Thespio

stoz

(3):

Bulbazoor

,

notscience

, JoramvanVugt

StubbsKVM

(1):

Micc

notscience

(1):

HenryCabotLodge

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Vote Count 1.13

JoramvanVugt

(3): StubbsKVM,

stoz

, Thespio

stoz

(3):

Bulbazoor

,

notscience

, Akuseru

Thespio

(1): JoramvanVugt

StubbsKVM

(1):

Micc

notscience

(1):

HenryCabotLodge

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Vote Count 1.14

JoramvanVugt

(4): StubbsKVM,

stoz

, Thespio,

Bulbazoor

stoz

(2):

notscience

, Akuseru

Thespio

(1): JoramvanVugt

StubbsKVM

(1):

Micc

notscience

(1):

HenryCabotLodge

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Vote Count 1.15

stoz

(4):

notscience

, Akuseru,

Bulbazoor

, JoramvanVugt

JoramvanVugt

(3): StubbsKVM,

stoz

, Thespio

StubbsKVM

(1):

Micc

notscience

(1):

HenryCabotLodge

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Vote Count 1.16

stoz

(4):

notscience

, Akuseru,

Bulbazoor

,

Micc

notscience

(3):

HenryCabotLodge

,

stoz

, JoramvanVugt

JoramvanVugt

(2): StubbsKVM, Thespio

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Vote Count 1.17 - FINAL

stoz

(5):

notscience

, Akuseru,

Bulbazoor

,

Micc

,

HenryCabotLodge

JoramvanVugt

(2): StubbsKVM, Thespio

notscience

(2):

stoz

, JoramvanVugt

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

OK, so the first thing I notice is that Aku tries extremely hard to avoid being on the top wagon. In 110 he is on leading wagon Stoz but jumps off to join a smaller wagon (Joram).

His reasoning is based on meta and Joram trying to play the newbie card, (265 and 287). Looking back, his vote on Stoz was fairly well reasoned so why would he not want to keep pushing that wagon? This fits in with Aku being scum and trying to make sure he wasn't on a lynch wagon.

In 381, Joram is the leading wagon. By 432 (the next VC) Aku leaves the Joram wagon and rejoins the Stoz wagon. His reasoning is pretty terirble - In 431, Aku states that we have nobody at L-1 and so he moves his vote onto Stoz to create a wagon instead of no lynching, unless my eyes are deceiving me, nobody unvoted Joram since the last VC so Joram was still at L-1. That means that Aku left an L-1 wagon to join another wagon to put it at L-2. This doesn't make any sense to me, unless again, Aku is trying to make sure he isn't on the lynch wagon.

After this, it was a flurry. People were looking for any wagon because time was of the essence. Therefore, once the Stoz wagon began picking up, Aku could not leave it this time. It would look way too scummy - he had to commit.

Another important note is that up until the lynch wagon, Aku and Bulba keep switching wagons - they never stay on the same wagon. In the end, they had to be on the same wagon due to time restraints.

Something else to consider that caught my attention - I'm wondering whether Stoz was a counter-wagon to Joram. If Joram was scum, Stoz was pushed to avoid his lynch. Look at VCs 455 and 463. Within the space of 8 posts, Joram goes from leading wagon to secondary wagon to Stoz - the main catalyst in this change? Bulba. He switched from Joram onto Stoz and Joram followed suit - this could be scum forcing a counter-wagon to Joram's wagon.

Looking at the votes a little closer - NS proposes that both Bulba and Joram should join the Stoz wagon (456). Low and behold, with very little hesistation, Bulba and Joram proceed to join the Stoz wagon with very little reasoning. (459 and 462).

Hmm, now I have myself conflicted.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What I meant is, Bulba and Joram needed very little convincing to switch wagons. It had nothing to do with NS' alignment - just what he posted to change their minds.

I didn't think about that - it would be pretty ballsy for both scum to switch like that.

VOTE: Aku

This makes the most sense.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

2 conf town (or nearly conf town) should make for an easy game in LyLo.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I meant we're in LyLo now. Technically, it's MyLo but realistically we're in LyLo. We need to lynch correctly Today to win.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Joram, thats why I asked what does BBT gain from the false claim?

This.

I gain nothing. I was already at conf town levels, I didn't need to do anything else for town cred.

PEdit - Aku, you were moving between Joram and Stoz D1. You might have 'showed interest' in a Bulba lynch, but that means nothing. The vote is the true indicator of your intentions.

D1 you played the classic 'FoS buddy, vote town' tactic'.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm hardly tunneling you. I think you're scum, therefore I present an argument on things that I think have scum motivation behind them.

It's that simple really.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thespio, it's down to you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Then he asks thespio’s opinion on me. As soon as he sees that thespio is considering me scum, he immediately posts:

I agree that Aku is most likely to be scum.

^when and how did this change of thought happen? He didn’t post anything in between the two posts. He’s just taking thespio’s view and sheeping it. I bet if thespio preferred Joram over me, BBT would be pushing Joram right about now.

Holy shit, that's one hell of a misrep. Here is the full quote that Aku cut short to take it out of context;

I agree that Aku is most likely to be scum.

Joram never targets me. Ever. You don't target me, unless you were planning on no lynching, which you didn't propose so I feel it's unlikely to be you. That leaves Aku.

So, the questions that Aku follows up with HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED in the post that he cut short. That is a huge misrep. He cut short my post AND took it out of context in order to try and make it look like I had no reasoning for coming to that conclusion.

Yes, Joram, there is another setup possibility.

We know there’s a roleblocker

(micc), therefore there are two possible set-up: one with a BP and one without it. BBT could be lying about his role and we actually have the setup where everyone is VT.

Scum slip. Only I and scum know there is a role-blocker. Given Aku has not CC'ed me as BP, and has claimed VT, how does he know there is a role-blocker?

Moving between lynch choices means nothing. Is that all you have against me? I didn’t just show interest on bulba, I made sure everyone knew that bulba was my second lynch choice and even wrote a paragraph on him for everyone to see:

As you can see Joram went down to null. I didn’t just “show interest” on bulba. I completely directed my attention to just stoz and bulba.

Right, except for the fact that you didn't vote Bulba on D1, not even once. Considering Bulba was your 'second choice' there was an awful lot of vote switching between both Stoz and Joram from you; why no votes on Bulba?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Man, that was a tough one.

I'm pretty sure we made the right choice.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, but I think you're trolling.

That was far too risky for you if you were scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Correct.

So, we have to keep our fingers crossed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Woooooo! Go scum!

Micc, who the hell did you jail N2 and why?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, you were the obvious kill choice once you confirmed yourself as town. Gave me a reason as to why I would still be alive.

I was pretty nervous about town no lynching again as I would have no reason for being alive. I'm also super surprised nobody analyzed Aku's D2 play - it would have been really hard for me to claim Aku was scum had anyone looked into it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Apologies for the rambling in scum PT - I was sure the game was lost when Bulba got lynched.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Micc jailed Joram - not a bad choice I guess. I was super, super surprised you flipped JK and didn't jail me.

That was my get out of jail free card.

Get it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well played, BBT!

I was pretty shocked, too. I thought that once I brought their attention to my Day 2 play (and point out the fact that, when asked directly, bbt wouldn't comment on anything Day 2 related), town would stop doubting my alignment @_@ Boy was I wrong.

Thanks man.

Yeah, when you kept bringing D2 up I just kept trying to redirect it to D1. Had your D2 been analyzed I don't know what I would have done because it was fairly unlikely for you to be scum with Bulba. Voting you and allowing Thespio not to hammer gave me an emergency exit as I wouldn't need to explain why I didn't die if we decided to no lynch (which I was worried about)

Aku to be honest it killed me to end it, but we lost and i knew it, i was gonna die, regardless of nk Joram would lynch you :/

This is pretty weak reasoning and it looks like you're trying to absolve yourself for losing the game (which isn't a nice thing to do).

congrats BBT that was really impressive.

Thanks Plot, I should have known you'd be watching

So, did you have me as scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yay! Haha, I'm sure you would have caught me had you been paying attention

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hahaha, unlucky Plot! Lessons learned!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thanks Plot, much appreciated. I really thought the game was over once Bulba got lynched so I'm quite proud that I pulled it off.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, Micc played really well.

One of the main reasons I had to target him.