Mini 1723: Town of Helen Day 4

[Vedith]

Morning all.

VOTE: Guilty Lion Are you stalking me?

[Vedith]

VOTE: Rob13

I also write code. There can only be one.

@Vedith - just wait till I join that GBA game too
(jk three ongoing games is gonna be enough for me right now)

Ah what a shame! I'm starting to like my 1st going onto you!

Talk to me about 20

Titus doesn't seem to recall.

[Vedith]

Where did the SK come into this? I don't see Silver mention it?

[Vedith]

But Silver just refereed to you as scum rather than any specific type of scum. Why would that be a consideration?

And why can't it be 10-2-1?

[Vedith]

Yeah I don't like the assumption from Titus, I think that she knows more than she's letting on.

UNVOTE: GL
VOTE: Titus

[Vedith]

But Silver just refereed to you as scum rather than any specific type of scum. Why would that be a consideration?

And why can't it be 10-2-1?

Scum means group scum. I have taught her the difference.

10 v 2 v 1 is unbalanced for the 2.

Well I see scum as not town - Explain it to me.

[Vedith]

So you're never posting again, SW. I never lied about you at all. At least that's one scum out.

Now, Vedith, let's see if you're scum or her buddy. How would 2 v 1 v 10 be balanced for the two?

You are talking as if you know the setup...
How can you surely know at this stage what there is, what's balanced and not without more information.
You obviously know that there is something else and I think the SK is a scum slip from you.

[Vedith]

So you're never posting again, SW. I never lied about you at all. At least that's one scum out.

Now, Vedith, let's see if you're scum or her buddy. How would 2 v 1 v 10 be balanced for the two?

You are talking as if you know the setup...
How can you surely know at this stage what there is, what's balanced and not without more information.
You obviously know that there is something else and I think the SK is a scum slip from you.

I setup crack. It's what I do. I do know there's no SK. :p it wouldn't be balanced.

Deal with it.

So you are with 2 other scum then?

[Vedith]

So I am SK and group scum? That's impossible. :p

No one actually called you SK - You just mentioned about it and then started saying that there can't be one.

[Vedith]

Titus, have you not been reading the comments?
I can't prove for or against, I don't know the setup but you obviously do.

You are getting flustered as you are being poked as scum I think.

[Vedith]

So I am SK and group scum? That's impossible. :p

No one actually called you SK - You just mentioned about it and then started saying that there can't be one.

SW said I was likely scum because I rolled SK before. Technically I said SK first but her post was misleading six ways from Sunday if I didn't. She said I was scum in NY 185, which is at best misleading because I was SK not scum.

She started the game off with fear mongering and SK hunting, which are scummy.

It's like asking "what is 2 plus 2" and then saying a person is scummy for mentioning 4.

SK is scum though.
I didn't read it as fear though.

[Vedith]

So I am SK and group scum? That's impossible. :p

No one actually called you SK - You just mentioned about it and then started saying that there can't be one.

SW said I was likely scum because I rolled SK before. Technically I said SK first but her post was misleading six ways from Sunday if I didn't. She said I was scum in NY 185, which is at best misleading because I was SK not scum.

She started the game off with fear mongering and SK hunting, which are scummy.

It's like asking "what is 2 plus 2" and then saying a person is scummy for mentioning 4.

SK is scum though.
I didn't read it as fear though.

SK is not scum. SK is a different alignment. SK is anti-town.

Still waiting for you to tell me the difference of scum and SK.

[Vedith]

I have been reading. I don't get flustered as scum. You are at best confbiasing here. You're sidestepping the issue that SK doesn't balance. Period.

Seems like you're ignoring what I am saying.

I will humor you though, what am I missing?

But I'm not, I have no opinion on the SK. I wouldn't have thought that there was one until you started talking about it.

[Vedith]

Maybe it's because I'm tired and it's late... But I still don't understand why SK can't be scum?
And I'm still not sure how it even got mentioned that there is an SK. I keep reading Silver's comments over and she is calling you scum... Not SK, not Mafia... Scum.

@Rob - I didn't give any setup speculation... I said I don't know what the setup could be. My concern isn't actually on the set up, it's where the fuck SK come from (And Titus, don't say Silver, because that seems to be you just assuming that's what she meant regardless if she did or not).
Also - Are you saying that if someone has inside knowledge of how many Mafia/3rd parties etc that they can't slip? Or was your comment purely because I said Titus seems to know more than she gives off in particular?

But I'm off to bed anyway.

[Vedith]

Also, the "we" just read as "oh, you do this? I do too as I am town." To me. I even read it as a tad snark, but that could just be my own filter. I didn't see budding either way.

Yeah I didn't see that either.
The argument Rob had with me was that Titus talking about a SK and deciding that there isn't one wasn't inside information, but using 'we' is inside information?
Although I still think Titus is pretty scummy, it was nit picking from Rob's side.

[Vedith]

At least I'm posting.

Posting just to look more active?

[Vedith]

Vedith not getting why Sk isn't a thing would be null if he didn't try to villainize Titus because of it.

My actual point was where it originally came to from thought. It was from Titus, who then straight after said that there can't be one.
I think that you need to re read the lot.

But noted that you are the partner of Titus, good job.

[Vedith]

Shit, I forgot this game was a thing! Time to play ketchup.

As long as we're not putting you out.
Cheers!

[Vedith]

SilverWolf (3): Boonskiies, Titus, Aristophanes

This is the result of half a scum slip accusation

Congrats people

Congrats

In what way?

[Vedith]

I'll be catching up in this game later after work.

[Vedith]

Going to point out that I used to get in trouble for borderline trust telling with self voting because I would only do it as town. Not the case anymore, but I've done it far more times as town than scum.

@Titus - just watch all the flies.

UNVOTE: until the mod next posts. This should be a mod-kill for an attempt at trust-telling, imho.

I hate comments like this. Just get on with them game, trying to provoke a mod kill is just stupid...

[Vedith]

So after all of that... Rob is still town. Boon is town, SW is town.

Aristophanes - I would go with Titus partner so far.
Titus - Yeah I'm not convinced that she isn't scum. Looking for any answer apart from Aris to vote for.

I am happy to vote for either.

[Vedith]

Then why not let the mod deal with it from the start?
I just hate it when people go after something so soft, it's still only a game at the end of the day.

And to follow up with the "I wouldn't negatively read anyone for having the integrity to not want cheating in their game"
His comment was not cheating. Mod has agreed, looking at it, it's harmless and over exaggerated to even be an issue. I don't see it an impact on either of your aligns what so ever though.

[Vedith]

@Vedith, you're tunnelling and doing the same thing SW was now.

Show me something different. All I see is you and Rob clumping up the thread. Rob looks town, you look scum.

[Vedith]

Boon is town

Why?

Because of how he is acting to the bitching of him starting late.
Yeah it's annoying when people aren't participating from the start but half the people here aren't actually putting any involvement in but rather posting just to post.
Obvious frustration is obvious.

[Vedith]

A Simple Plan's been active in

six

different games since saying he would do something here. He needs to do something after his prod, or he'll be on the chopping block in a future day.

Every game I've been in he has done this and normally gets poked as scum for it.
I'm starting to dislike joining a game with ASP just because of the standard lurky play.

[Vedith]

Can you present one cohesive Titus case for me Vedith? I'm not seeing it, but I'd like to see your total thought process in one place.

The fact that she will vote anywhere but Arist to try and get a wagon going.
The fact that people voting her she will try and sweet up or guilt trip.
The fact that half her posts are bollocks.

[Vedith]

@Vedith, That's a lie saying I will vote

anyone

but Ari is a lie.

I didn't mean it literally....

[Vedith]

I don't necessarily think he's scum for it. Lurking is null if it's in your meta and you don't have a reason to do it. The problem is that if he never contributes anything, we can never know his alignment, and he definitely can't be allowed to make it to LyLo.

I highly agree. I don't even see a change late game with him either.

[Vedith]

@Vedith, Do you have a scumread that's not me or a lurker?

Oh really, you didn't mean it literally? Then just how did you mean it?

Just you 2 so far.
I meant, that you are obviously going to divert to the strongest wagon to another wagon or at least potential wagon 1 - To keep off yourself (not much of an alignment tell) 2 - To divert from your partner is who wagon leading.
I didn't mean you going "Vote Bob, Vote Jim etc etc"

[Vedith]

I don't necessarily think he's scum for it. Lurking is null if it's in your meta and you don't have a reason to do it. The problem is that if he never contributes anything, we can never know his alignment, and he definitely can't be allowed to make it to LyLo.

I highly agree. I don't even see a change late game with him either.

Lyidiyycojjvjrxye xkhcouveyjb

*fuming face that's gagged*

This wasn't about you dear, calm down...

[Vedith]

Now, I'm not mathematician so don't fully trust me here, but I believe that you have 2 votes and the leading wagon has 3?
So what you are saying is I am vote parking because I am on who I believe to be scum?

So you were pushing GL, changed your mind all of a sudden? Saw an opportunity that didn't contradict your earlier reads?

[Vedith]

@Vedith/Rob, Give me those conditions and I will grab those games. I must go to work now.

What conditions? I didn't ask for games. I've seen you in enough games to have an opinion by now.

[Vedith]

@Vedith, I haven't changed my mind on GL at all. Rob's lurking point on PB is true because PB missed his self-imposed deadline. You'd know the answer to that if reading my posts.

You're at best confirmation biasing what you see.

Didn't you just make a dig at me for thinking that a lurker was scum?

[Vedith]

Is there a reason you won't vote PB?

Wait, when did I say this?

So my reads are easy, but you were like "Oh hey Rob! How are you Rob? Vote PB? Now that's an idea!"... I think I'm missing something.

[Vedith]

Btw, I would say that GL is town. And not because of Titus thinking that he is scum, just because of his general play. He's playing more or less the same as an ongoing game. There's also a more in depth reason which can't be said right now.

@Rob - Since you are so rule heavy, calling someone incompetent is against the site rules right?
Keep in mind, I think that this is weak, however, it's the same level of what you was trying to get Boon on imo. More of me pointing out you being a hypocrite.

*Note to self, never join a game that Rob is modding

[Vedith]

What's a Miller do again? I know that it's an easy role to find out if lying, right?

[Vedith]

@Vedith-Do you still think Titus is scum? Can you lay out a case if so?

I haven't got anything additional but I still think scum. I really don't want to tunnel but I can't help but feel she is scum.
I also don't believe that her partner is a Miller.

[Vedith]

Or does this mean that you are assuming I am her partner and not a miller, thus scum?

This one.
But I do need to re read others as I don't want to be hell bent on you two.

I just think that Miller is convenient if they show as scum anyway...

[Vedith]

But it's also a really big gambit as miller's simply don't make it to endgame. Like, ever.

Fair enough. As I said, I'll look into the game more I've been focused else where.
I haven't played a game (or been alive) with a Miller claim.

[Vedith]

Who are your town reads? Vedith and ???

He doesn't read me as town.

[Vedith]

Here's Vedith's ISO. First one, he's playing dumb on the whole SK v scum debate to fuel SW.
Second, he's again just rehashing in 89 to state he doesn't get it and to cause more time there.

SK is still scum, so what's this bollocks that you are going along with again?

[Vedith]

A few opinion s have altered however it's more or less the same. I find most of the posting since I was last involved non progressive and wasteful. Everyone just seems to be posting for the sake of it. Maybe I'm just not feeling this game yet but nothing has struck me as conversational.
I mean, don't even get me started on your terrible comment of Titus confirmed scum if you flip town...

[Vedith]

I am currently typing a post.

[Vedith]

Why not? If it gets you talking go ahead and I never said it confirms her as scum. It makes it far more likely my words about her will be taken seriously and her actions towards me will be shown to be bad when I flip town. Too many are calling this TvT and I don't see it that way.

Right, lets get me involved in the game properly now. I was going to replace out as it's not fair to not be followed up on the game. So lets start from here and if I can get back onto track with this game then I'll stay in.

I personally doubt TvT. I do like Titus as scum. The doubt I have it Titus is another player like myself that looks scummy and is pretty much a basic D1 lynch. I do think that this is TvS between you too. It's too drawn out to be TvT and it's too focused to be SvS. For me, if you flipped town, Titus would be set in my book as scum, and the other way around.

There's been quite a lot of analysis in this game since you last posted outside of the Titus vs me argument-for example my push on PB earlier, wgeurts comments about Titus, GL's recent analysis that is very much game related and relevant.

PB doesn't strike me as scum. But considering he has even less con tent as me (although he is a standard lurker) this doesn't give much credit.
I also haven't seen much of a case on him from you. Can you suggest the posts for me as I feel I am missing something.

wgeurts was already on Titus. the posts he did was more or less comments already on the playing field. The only opinion that I changed from WG's posts were that if Titus is town (I still doubt that overall) then there is a good chance that he is your scum partner. I don't have anything to back this up, as the push on Titus while using you as an example can be legit, but I'm not feeling that only 1 of you would be scum. Keep in mind, that's only a Titus town result for me.

GL isn't striking me as town. I've only had 2 games with him. 1 ongoing, you will have to search to see what he was, and 1 finished where he was scum (I had him as a hard null). But I feel that he is more scummier than town just for coming across as posting to look town, rather than posting as town.
He also says TvT with SW and Titus. Again, either trying to comment on the debate without getting anyone's focus on him or he's trying to prevent a scum partner from slipping and trying to draw focus onto someone else (PB in this case).
I also don't like that he still thinks of me as town when I haven't been involved in the game since a few people called me town. At this stage, he should be pressuring and poking to why I haven't been commenting.

On a side note.

Rob was my strongest town read. I haven't gone through his posts yet. As my opinion stands on him, a flip from SW or Titus will not alter my opinion on him regardless of the flip.

Flubbernugget is another that I want to look into, I haven't like what I skimmed as in reading a town, but I think there's a lot more in depth comment that can be advised here.

Again, I apologies for not putting full effort here. I am working towards being fully caught up.

[Vedith]

Vedith you are confused - we do not have a completed game together where I was scum. Was this an honest mistake, did you mistake me for another player?

I thought we did? Maybe I am confusing you but I'll look later.

[Vedith]

It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with this game, but if you are using this 'past game' for a meta read on me then that mistake needs to be sorted.

Noted.
The game I was referring was Midnight Sun.
This may have been Grapes and not you that I am getting confused with then.

[Vedith]

I thought that wg already replaced from that hydra?

[Vedith]

Ah, okay...
So Von, any opinions on people?
I assume that you are happy with your Titus vote?

[Vedith]

@ASP, 750 is an Ari post asking you if you have reads... How does that have anything to do with SW?

That would be ASP posting just to post, I do believe. - Read up edit - Okay he corrected it.

But the main point here is that you need to pay more attention if you're town and want to help win this game.

To me, I find that the people that pay most attention are scum as they don't want to slip up. Just saying.

You said the same thing last game and I was town.

Can you link this?

Look at this. Titus keeps jumping in and answering for/defending PB. Considering how strange these two have been all game, I'm starting to wonder here.

I see your point, although that's standard from Titus what I've seen in other games to put her 2 pence in... And it was already stated in the thread, that's a null tell, but Titus I still favour as scum.

@Boon - Who else is scum for you?

[Vedith]

You said the same thing last game and I was town.

Can you link this?

Subject: NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

why are you so sure this is town silver? I'm not.

Then yeah, his comment has 0 face value in this sense. Because someone thinks of you as scum like most games gives me a null tell with that (I stick to my opinion on Boon).

[Vedith]

Prodge - Catch up to come later.

[Vedith]

Ari, I don't understand your question? I investigated Titus as my night action and found out she is not town.

To be honest, this is good enough for me.
I already said that SW and Titus were not TvT...
Although I highly, highly doubt that Titus would kill SW, I can see Rob being her target.

VOTE: Titus

So before I properly catch up - Titus is claiming Miller, right?

[Vedith]

So is there any other rules at standard that have that effect?

My concern... If her role is like this, then why did she not push against you day 1? If it were me, I would doubt having 2 roles like that.
Also, why would she not say it day 1 if she effectively has the same ability as a Miller?

[Vedith]

Day 2 ends in 12 days, 11 hours, 16 minutes

Although Titus really should be the lynched (should have been day 1 lynch)
lets not waste this time we have for the day.

[Vedith]

Game wasn't balanced from word one.

How so?

[Vedith]

I don't really get your point here...
Even without the Mason cops, I'm pretty sure we would have lynched you.

[Vedith]

No. You wouldn't have. I'm not lynched early as scum, no matter how perilous. Guilties and vigs are the only way to mislynch me when people know my alignment.

Mislynched? But you are scum, right?
I would have pushed you today regardless. And you should have been the lynch of day 1.

[Vedith]

So, can someone explain the PB votes for me?

[Vedith]

PB is at L1 btw.
So, Pist - Why are you voting him?
Same to the other 2.

If there's a valid reason then I'll vote.

[Vedith]

Okay, so sell me. Why should I vote him over you?
If I recall, you were defending Titus day 1, to an extent, right?

[Vedith]

So, GL talk to me. Have you played with Titus?

[Vedith]

Weekend over now. So lets see what PB says.
Unless anyone wants to discuss anything?

[Vedith]

If we didn't have 10 days left I would have just voted to save Jingles the trouble...

[Vedith]

Ummm, GL is confirmed town though?

[Vedith]

VOTE: Pistachi0n
To be honest, I prefer this wagon over Von's.
Titus wanted Von lynched so I think town...

[Vedith]

why do you like pistasio over ETL?

Pist soft defended Titus day 1 claiming her and SW was TvT argument.
He just jumps on the wagon with ease and then has the same reason that is already out there.

Titus is more likely to buddy/defend town rather than scum buddies imo.

[Vedith]

If vonflare is scum then I think he is the third party scum, I seriously doubt he and Titus were partners.

Ah yeah, Von could be 3rd party.

So if he made the other kills and is SK rather than vig (I can't see those kills being vig), would that suggest that there is 1 scum left?
If so, it doesn't matter if we get scum or SK

[Vedith]

Keep in mind, if we mis lynch today, tomorrow is possibly only 4 players with 2 killing parties.

Lets all try to discuss this more... A quiet town is normally what fucks everything up.

[Vedith]

Yup, no one wants to discuss properly...
Flubber - Thoughts?

[Vedith]

Vedith, you ignored vonflare's 1181, and I want a response to that as well.

Don't talk bullshit... 1185

We won't win by not paying attention.

[Vedith]

1185
Fixed

[Vedith]

I can't see your results. Is there anyone alive who you have checked?

[Vedith]

Why not Pist?

[Vedith]

Yeah it does seem odd.
Titus was obvious scum, so pushing on her was an easy call.
However, I can see Mastin being targeted and considering that there has only been 1 night since the reveal it's not overly surprising.

You say that you don't want to die, but you vote GL with no votes rather than Pist? That's pretty scummy.

UNVOTE: Pist

Intent to hammer Von.

[Vedith]

And GL is? o.O

[Vedith]

VOTE: vonflare

[Vedith]

weird game.

I wonder if my lynch results in a town win.

I might be some kind of unaware third party

If this resulted in a town win, then how were there kills last night with you making any?

[Vedith]

Is that a real role or no?

[Vedith]

Well I guess that they blocked you to add suspicion of you as scum as a lynch today.
Probably would have thought that without the flip.

However, are we looking at 1 scum 1 3rd party (SK most likely)
No Mafia scum left and only 3rd part
Or a second scum team?

Regardless, Pist is scum.

VOTE: Pist

[Vedith]

Not Voting (10):

So who's vote counts as 7?

[Vedith]

Unless the person they targeted with the block died by 3rd party and he claimed the RB for town credit?

There's other reasons so no, he's not confirmed town. Just unlikely.

[Vedith]

I think the Alien team was just two people, Titus and ETL, looking at ETL's PM. And plus the person roleblocked can't die either, since they are jailed.

I expect so as well, but this is a bastard game, so anything is possible, right?

Also, we can't have another scum team of 2 otherwise we would have lost now. So ignore that part from me. :Facepalm:

[Vedith]

With the swapping alignment, wouldn't that suggest the werewolf?

[Vedith]

So here are the flavors I've received:

GuiltyLion believes the government has been using Facebook and similar services to spy on citizens. He also believes they're trying to kill him to silence him.

^Consistent with what he's told us.

Vedith believes there are aliens experimenting on everyone in the town. He also believes they're trying to silence anyone talking about them.

^Suggests to me a pro-town role to counteract alien stuff.

Flubbernugget believes there is an evil consortium of banks controlling the entire world from the shadows, killing anyone to further their plots.

^??????

I don't get this?
Maybe I missed it? You are a flavour cop?

[Vedith]

GL, some input?

[Vedith]

Like if we're gonna randomly flavorspec then I wouldn't be surprised if Vedith is a SK who is so afraid of aliens invading the town that he's killing everyone he's suspicious of.

You've seen my scum game. If you really think that I'm playing as scum then it's really going to be a loss.
The logic you give here would suggest that I would be killing Aliens and that killing them would result in us winning.
We haven't won. Pist is lying for me.

@Pist, what night did you check me?

[Vedith]

ISOing SW points to Vedith as scum as well. We know she was the 3P NK because Aliens cleaned Rob. She was starting to suspect Vedith but had pistachi0n as a townread.

Again, you've seen my scum game. Why would I kill someone who is suspecting me when I can push for them as scum?
It makes no sense.

[Vedith]

That's not my fluff. I'm scared of the Aliens and hide away with weapons (paraphased). I'm town bomb so he's lying.
I'm sure he would get the same as Jingles gave me.

[Vedith]

If I'm killed I kill my killer.

[Vedith]

I don't crumb in games it's anti town.

[Vedith]

He conveniently checked each of us from night 1 to night 3?
The 3 people he so happened to check all alive at the end?

[Vedith]

You are talking bollocks.

[Vedith]

No, if I was scum I would have gone along with it and got Flubber lynched.
I've even re checked, what you said is not in my role what so ever!

[Vedith]

I don't get what you mean though? I have no conspiracy flavor in my fluff!
I don't understand where you get this from?
Unless GL and Flubber confirm theirs it's utter bollocks.

[Vedith]

I didn't notice it until he said about my flavour.

[Vedith]

I'd like Flubber to confirm the conspiracy on his.
Because honestly, I've re checked and re checked and Pist is wrong. I messaged the mod to no response as of yet too.

[Vedith]

No, when I am killed, I kill them.
People can still visit.

[Vedith]

How is it defensive?
I questioned Pist with his false information.

You haven't even confirmed if it matches yours yet.

[Vedith]

No, it's my not sure what the fuck you are on about.
Whatever, GL knows my scum game, if he thinks it's this with nothing to back up then he can lose it for town.

I want to know why Flubber won't confirm though.

[Vedith]

"How is that balanced" - GL in a bastard game.

I'm done, the points against me are so weakly done. Everyone has thought of me as scum but GL picks out 2 that we don't even know who they were killed by.
Bomb is a pretty comments role so to say it's odd it just stupid. This is actually my 3rd time as it.

[Vedith]

GG :Twisted:

[Vedith]

I didn't really know where to go with it. The flavour that Pist said wasn't in my role so it confused me lol.

[Vedith]

No I was being honest lol.
I mean, I lied about mine as well, but it doesn't match to what mine says in role PM xD

[Vedith]

also Vedith, this is three completed games with you as scum and you voted me first in every single one! I know your scumtell now

I thought that I only had 2 scum games with you?
I normally vote you or FB every game to be honest. xD

[Vedith]

But thanks for the game all, was a good one.
I really enjoyed my role and I was hoping that I would be recruited by the Aliens