Mini 1723: Town of Helen Day 4

[Vedith]

Or does this mean that you are assuming I am her partner and not a miller, thus scum?

This one.
But I do need to re read others as I don't want to be hell bent on you two.

I just think that Miller is convenient if they show as scum anyway...

[Aristophanes]

Or does this mean that you are assuming I am her partner and not a miller, thus scum?

This one.
But I do need to re read others as I don't want to be hell bent on you two.

I just think that Miller is convenient if they show as scum anyway...

That's why being a miller is a bitch of a time.
Because it would be convenient for scum to claim.

But it's also a really big gambit as miller's simply don't make it to endgame. Like, ever.
So claiming it as scum rarely happens unless a guilty is found and they are trying to wiggle out of it.

[Titus]

Or does this mean that you are assuming I am her partner and not a miller, thus scum?

This one.
But I do need to re read others as I don't want to be hell bent on you two.

I just think that Miller is convenient if they show as scum anyway...

Rereading would be good. Perhaps do an alternative reads list if you're really stuck (meaning a reads list presuming I am town).

[Vedith]

But it's also a really big gambit as miller's simply don't make it to endgame. Like, ever.

Fair enough. As I said, I'll look into the game more I've been focused else where.
I haven't played a game (or been alive) with a Miller claim.

[Titus]

UNVOTE:
Finished reading and that solid crumb warrants leaving Aristo until we have more information.
Right now I'm slightly in the dark. I have quite a few town reads but not a lot of solid scum reads.
Titus' early game play was false and awful, it seems to be improving but her skill at this game makes me paranoid.
Prolapsed brain is matching his scum game to games I know he's been scum in.
Aristo I can make a solid case on and the only thing holding me off is his miller claim.
Vedith is just not feeling town to me and I'm considering scum on that slot as well.

I feel like I've got some scum in this group, just need to do so more looking before making up my mind.
Anyone got questions for me?

Who are your town reads? Vedith and ???

How do you feel about the people stating they are willing to lynch you? Why does it take a threatened wagon to get you out of spam mode?

[Vedith]

Who are your town reads? Vedith and ???

He doesn't read me as town.

[Titus]

But it's also a really big gambit as miller's simply don't make it to endgame. Like, ever.

Fair enough. As I said, I'll look into the game more I've been focused else where.
I haven't played a game (or been alive) with a Miller claim.

Here's the policy. Miller, hated or anything else neg utility, you claim D1 unless it's lovers.

[Hieirama]

Eugh late reply

@Rob
That's kind of weird, "us" is stronger than listing names under the word "Town".

@Silverwolf
A Miller claiming Day1 is probably more likley to be true, because a Town Miller would want to let everyone know as soon as possible, while scum would probably use it to save themselves if a cop claims.
If scum did claim Day1, then it would be odd to see that they survived the Night, supposedly being conf. Town, and people may end up questioning the claim.

I don't like this. What if a scum wanted to shake up the meta and claimed miller day 1? You say then it would be odd if they survived the night, okay, so what if a scum wanted to shake up the meta by not killing a townie that claimed miller? It shouldn't be that easy to be conf town.

They could do that. They probably already did.
I'm going to add to your argument about the NK; a Townie that claimed Miller also may not die since a protecting PR chose to protect them.
It isn't easy. The Meta is shaken, but scum can only do that so often. I doubt that in most games scum would lower their own mislynch pool more then they needed just to shake a controversial Meta up more.
So I'm kinda backing up what Boon said.

[SilverWolf]

Hey Hieirama, I notice you haven't voted for anyone this game outside an RVS vote on pista.

Do you have any scumreads right now and why are you keeping your vote in RVS at this stage of the game?

[Jingle]

VOTE COUNT 1.6

It must have been surreal, those months. With a population so much lower than it had ever been before, it became so much harder to determine who was still there. Of course the mainstays could be seen, like the sheriff riding around all hours of the day, looking for anyone breaking the law, his eyelids sagging progressively lower as exhaustion set in. And some of the more colorful characters in town held their place. But even then, there was definitely some people that no one knew about. The man who owned the cornerstore on 12th street, for example, disappeared early one morning. No one realized until it failed to open. No one had heard from him. Had he left town, hoping for a calmer life? Had he merely taken a vacation? Was the store only closed for a while, to reopen when he had the time? Or was something rather more sinister involved?

Even now, in the aftermath, we have trouble figuring out just how many escaped Helen, and those involved have been keeping impossibly tight lipped about everything. Who knows the actual body count? Well, we can only guess that the one responsible does.

wgeurts (3): Aristophanes, Flubbernugget, Titus,
Aristophanes (1): GuiltyLion,
Titus (1): Vedith,
Flubbernugget (1): pistachi0n,
Prolapsed Brain (1): Rob13,
Rob13 (1): Boonskiies,
Hieirama (1): A Simple Plan,
Boonskiies (0):
SilverWolf (0):
GuiltyLion (0):
Vedith (0):
pistachi0n (0):
A Simple Plan (0):

Not Voting (4): Prolapsed Brain, Hieirama, SilverWolf, wgeurts,

With 13 alive, it is 7 to Lynch or No Lynch.

Day 1 Ends in: (expired on 2015-10-21 22:00:00)

Wgeurts replaces 20x100. (I'll update the OP in a moment.)

Sorry about the delay, guys. I'll try to be a little more timely with future votecounts and catching mod notes in the thread.

[SilverWolf]

Wow, drama. Let me know when it's over.

This is an excuse not to post or get involved in the game.

You want an end to drama, we can agree to Unvote for 48 hours and not to mention each other as scum (but have it presumed unless noted), we scumhunt other people. That would reduce the drama for all without forcing me to be fake in my reads.

Hahahaha sorry, this just made me laugh (literally) out loud. It's like two people in a relationship saying "Let's take a break for a while. We'll see other people, and we'll check back in after a month or so."
Sorry. I do have a pretty warped sense of humor. Carry on. (However, if these two are scum together, I would not be shocked. It's too much like coaching.)

This post is the only one I was leaning town on because he's made this coaching argument before as town. But it's not enough.

I don't know how to quote a locked thread.

Click the PM button for the post you want to quote. There's some extraneous info near the top, but the post is quoted with all BBcode intact. Copy/paste at will.

@Prolapsed Brain: Are you going to provide any analysis, reads, or contributions at some point, or are you going to continue to be passive?

Well, now that the Drama with SW seems to be subsiding, I'll be more vocal. But I'll warn you: I'm not very good at D1. I need flips to work with.
Also, why are you not calling out those lesser-active? At least I'm posting. O_o

This post is scummy. Lots of excuses not to post or do anything. He hasn't voted all game. Defensive about his activity. Active lurking.

Prodge. Had to unexpectedly go out of town today; exhausted now. I'm at the top of page 7. Tomorrow is free form all distractions except mafia.

Promises a catch up. Posts in other games. Never finishes.

I apologize for needing to be prodded. A large bunch of tiny yet unrelated RL things jumped me all at once, but they are all handled now, so I'm here and catching up.
Will be here for the next couple of hours off and on if anyone wants to converse or question me (but questions aren't going to be very fruitful as I've read such a tiny part of the game thus far).

Again, says he'll catch up. Says he'll be around. Never posts even one tiny bit of content at all.
When he's been town in games I've played with him, he's never been the most active player but he does participate. He's lurky as hell as scum.
I think if we lynch this today, we have a better than average chance of hitting scum here.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

[Titus]

@SW, I find this turn interesting. You state you could go for a wgeurts lynch, yet never vote it. Instead you create a counter on PB for all the reasons I was saying before. You never jumped on the PB wagon based on this reason when I was pushing it.

Why the sudden change?

[SilverWolf]

Because I'm re-ISOing all the people in the game I am unsure of and PB's looks like crap.

[Prolapsed Brain]

Well, it's gonna change, soon, like as soon as I finish this post.

As SW pointed out in 585, my scum meta is indeed very lurky. Reality screwed me over by making me unavailable for a few days, and now I have to catch up. And apologize.

Anyway, incoming wall.

[Prolapsed Brain]

So, I'll try to keep the walls to two game-pages each (or more) because I'm 16 pages behind or so. I hate walls as much as y'all do, so try not to hate me too much.

Trying too hard? That's utter shit. Applying that to Rob when he's asking questions and not to sw is wtf. Your Ari attack also makes no sense if SW is null.

Why do you think pistachi0n's vote is on Rob then? You don't see how scum would benefit from looking town in the beginning of the game when it's easiest to 'scumhunt'? I didn't see a reason for Prolapsed_Brain to draw fire from Rob13 this early in the game. It's an easy push to make and feels like probing for the sake of probing, rather than probing with results in mind.

I'm curious why you thought one player could read another player's mind to answer why a vote was placed. Also, yes, scum could benefit, slightly I suppose, from looking town so early, but this is just Rob. That's how he plays.

Titus has had their pressure and reacted as much as they were going to, in my opinion. As I already explained a while back, empty posts are 1000x worse than no posts in early Day 1. I mean, come on, P_B came right out and said things like:

Wow, drama. Let me know when it's over.

Let's not analyze the reactions; let's just skip it due to "drama". Hint: If you define drama as two people arguing, all of Mafia is drama.

Okay, no, I get that mafia is all about debate. Arguing and debating are entirely different. I'm just rather gun-shy from a certain Large Normal that really soured me on Drama for a while. Debate is fine, it's the core of mafia. Drama, OTOH, makes me twitch, and so I avoid it when possible.


Really glad gogurt replaced in for 20x100.

I like pistachiOn right now. The Rob vote/push is not an easy one for scum to make. Feel the same about Vedith I said 95.

For reference, if one of SW or pistachio flips scum, the other likely is.

I don't know how to quote a locked thread.

Click the PM button for the post you want to quote. There's some extraneous info near the top, but the post is quoted with all BBcode intact. Copy/paste at will.

@Prolapsed Brain: Are you going to provide any analysis, reads, or contributions at some point, or are you going to continue to be passive?

Well, now that the Drama with SW seems to be subsiding, I'll be more vocal. But I'll warn you: I'm not very good at D1. I need flips to work with.

Also, why are you not calling out those lesser-active? At least I'm posting. O_o

I don't like how you are making excuses not to give substantive input. You are posting so I'm sure you have an opinion on something in this game right? Like, what do you think of the argument between myself and Titus in regards to our alignment? You mentioned coaching. So do you think we are scum together or?

I believe that you and Titus share an alignment. I don't yet know which alignment that may be, but I think you both are the same. Post 195 just solidifies this.

[Titus]

Gut reads atm.

[SilverWolf]

PB is lining up lynches. If either Pista or Titus flips scum, he's got me set up to be lynched next.

[Prolapsed Brain]

My current reads are:

Rob13 -- town

GL -- leaning scum

Aristophanes -- nullish townish

SW & Titus -- share an alignment (don't know what it is yet, but)

Boon -- lurky lurky Boon

Vedith -- prob town

gogurts -- just the fact that he's in the game makes me want to call him scum. However, the rational part of me reminds me that I haven't even read his non-hydra posts yet. But I bet he's scum anyway.

Heieireieioama -- town? I think there isn't enough to go on yet


P-Edit: Not lining up lynches, just stating potential probable relational tells. I know they're mostly worthless, but I just mention them for future reference.

[Flubbernugget]

if you're calling him scum you think he's going to trade a buddy for you?

and pull this off with Prolapsed Brain^(TM) levels of activity?

[Flubbernugget]

the irony of getting ninja'd by someone you accuse of being inactive....

[Titus]

PB is lining up lynches. If either Pista or Titus flips scum, he's got me set up to be lynched next.

Yeah, that's a reach. PB has zero clout at all.

[Prolapsed Brain]

I have a life and will also be very busy the next two days. I'd like to hear from the other players besides you, myself, and Rob. You are the obvious lynch to me at this point based on all the things I've said. It's not fear mongering. It's telling people why I think you are scum which is indeed scumhunting and playing the game. Right now, you are the obvious lynch to me so I have no problem pointing that out. You can also stop the rare even I"m actually trying to scumhunt garbage and when you come back, you can actually tell me what you think of the person you are voting for, for starters. If you are town, you will show me that you are and if I believe it, I'll move on. Otherwise, I won't. When I come back to the game, I'll read it again from the beginning and do ISO's to make absolutely sure I'm not missing something or wrong. Until then, I want other people to post more.

SW, have you historically bused quite this hard? I'll look if I have to, but if you could link some positive examples, it would save me the time. TIA.


Titus, same bussing question.


Okay, this is through page 12. I've got to get to bed.

[Rob14]

You people are posting fast enough that I have to do a "catch up post" for like 5 hours. ugh.

@wgeurts: Relational tells only work Day 2. Looking for them Day 1 is kind of silly. You need flips for relational tells to mean anything. Don't fall into the trap of saying "I think X is scum, and X could be scum with Y, so Y is scum." Doing that will cause all your reads to collapse and be useless if X flips town. Alternatively, you could be scum making excuses for not scum-hunting right now. What can you tell us so far about independent reads you have (meaning no relational bullshit)? And no, "I'm focusing on something that becomes helpful Day 2" is not a valid excuse, since even if you plan to focus on that when it's useful, you can still do something that's useful now.

Isn't this original flavor? What's the point of a flavor claim other than to rolefish?

Ari's claim of flavor pushes him solidly into my town camp; it seems very plausible and unlikely to be faked. The way in which he claimed miller would be very odd for scum also, imo.

@Vedith's #575: The problem with just re-reading others to look for other leads is that several people are almost entirely inactive. I'm sure one scum is amongst the active, but I still think PB is scum. And who knows with ASP? Make sure you look at those that

aren't

posting as much as those who are.

I've played with a miller before. I've even played with two millers in one game before. I've never played with a scum claiming miller before. I'm sure it's happened, but I personally don't see any value in it from the scum POV unless under serious fire and no reason to crumb it so heavily.

Solid points from Titus in #579. I kind of still want a PB lynch, tbh, but 20x100 should go soon barring some unpredictable event.

Re 582: The fact that we'd find a live miller by Day 3 to be odd and lynchable means that it's not beneficial for scum to lynch them. The miller makes an easy mislynch when the pool is very small and chances of hitting scum are better. This whole "He's scummy if he lives" thing defeats itself the more you say it. The best thing we can say to throw scum off is that we'll evaluate Ari based on his actions, not on his claim. Take the WIFOM out of it and force scum to kill him if he's town and they want him dead.

FINALLY. THANK YOU SW. Someone sees the PB light.

Hey some content from PB, interesting. It's def not because he has three votes on him or anything.

Are you someone I know? You're talking about how I play but I don't think we've ever played together unless you're an NS alt.

Solid point from SW in 591, although I've seen town (misguidedly) do this plenty of times. This is fortunate for us if PB flips scum, as scum only tend to line up lynches from their buddies onto town (since they know that there's no point in saying "if TOWNIE X is scum, then TOWNIE Y is scum"). Gives us a direction to look.

Why do you think GL is scum, PB?

[SilverWolf]

I have a life and will also be very busy the next two days. I'd like to hear from the other players besides you, myself, and Rob. You are the obvious lynch to me at this point based on all the things I've said. It's not fear mongering. It's telling people why I think you are scum which is indeed scumhunting and playing the game. Right now, you are the obvious lynch to me so I have no problem pointing that out. You can also stop the rare even I"m actually trying to scumhunt garbage and when you come back, you can actually tell me what you think of the person you are voting for, for starters. If you are town, you will show me that you are and if I believe it, I'll move on. Otherwise, I won't. When I come back to the game, I'll read it again from the beginning and do ISO's to make absolutely sure I'm not missing something or wrong. Until then, I want other people to post more.

SW, have you historically bused quite this hard? I'll look if I have to, but if you could link some positive examples, it would save me the time. TIA.

Titus, same bussing question.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

I want you lynched ASAP.

[Titus]

@SW, why does PB asking about your meta make you want to lynch him?

@PB, I generally do not bus, but I have bussed occasionally. As for "hard" you would have to look at the rare games that I bussed without tanking my own lynch.