UNI MUM Mafia (Day 3, Stay Gold Pony)

[zMuffinMan]

dram should probably clarify how roles / alignment were done this game anyway

[itlepip]

i put my thoughts about the claimed folks.
i still would be fine with ds dying.
shiro not today. davsto not today. sharky not today.
others seem pretty town.

Can someone tell me what town would gain from shooting me? Because that's the ONLY time I will be fine with dying. Someone give me something I can be a martyr for and I might not rip it to shreds.

we would have 1 less scum to deal with. The whole point of lynching is that 99% of the time getting lynched (especially as a VT if you remember claiming that) getting lynched sucks. There is no bullshit web of connections that is going to be built where you dying as town would help town, you want to avoid it as much as you can. Look I know being scummy is relatively NAI from diamond, this is just so much the antithesis of how I play the game.

Obviously EP thinks there is a reasonable chance that Diamond is scum, and Diamond's defense to it is "tell me why I should support my own lynch and I'll probably have a

sick

rebuttal" which is clearly moving the goalposts to make his defense comically easier. "If I know I'm town I shouldn't support my lynch, if I'm scum I wouldn't support my lynch" which doesn't mean that he isn't scum obviously. I know you have to grade on a scale, but even then there has to be a limit.

Pedit: so far we know that the native american translator is innocent and Mastin(the flavor of TN, not the player, although that would be hilarious) is scum. Assuming most of these claims are right they all seem to be generally based on what the flavour.

[zMuffinMan]

actually, yeah. dram thinks mastin is scum therefore made the person who picked mastin scum

it's so obvious when you think about it

@dram, why do you think mastin is scum?

[Cerberus v666]

The only reasonable way to handle this would be to assign alignments randomly, then create the roles based on the alignment+character chosen. Anything else is impossible to balance I'd imagine.

EP: We can win without LH if they're town.

[RolePlay25]

Okay, for Titus - why Itle need to die for being scummy mc scum

It's been a long fucking day, and I meant to make this hours ago, but you earn the last of my energy for the day. Yay you. See, when I move my vote, I do actually check it's going to a good place.

Lets talk a few eyecatching statements:

I really don't see the DS wagon as scum here. Jeane and roleplay are my 2nd and 3rd scum reads right now. TN's wagon was fairly terrible and was made up of awful people. I'll with the Elbrin read. My gut is saying that this whole conversation is scum banter, I think that it is probably a conspiracy theory, but...

Before I stop posting, I'd say I'm game.

VOTE: tn

~Bye bye~

Wee random wagon if nonsense but won't explain why...

Will finish catching up tomorrow, not excited to read a day of posts without my scumreads though.

Now again, bad reads aren't scumreads, but man does he grab the chainsaw hard for TN. Very, very hard, because TN was a viable lynch candidate at that point (and would damn near confirm Jeanne-town just by flipping).

All of his reads are generic "mafia theory" reads. They're very, very non-judgmental reasons for voting people, hard to argue with, useless. Anyone can go through someone's ISO and find a list of the plays that are against site meta, and again and again all his reads are for people being

bad town

.

Holy shit that reasoning sucks. "I know I'm town, and voting confirmed town is scummy, so therefore anyone that votes me is scum". One of the very keys development for humans, and what mafia is based around, is that other people don't know what you know. One of the my pet peeves is when people say "I know I'm town and that gives me an advantage over everyone else" in lylo settings. It means nothing and doesn't actually help with analysis since everyone knows that they are town, even scum. Come on Jeanne...

Also, you keep ignoring the fact that I said you would do the same if you had my role. Address that point too instead of skirting around it.

No I wouldn't. There literally isn't a role in the game that I would ever do what you have been doing this game. If people voting me somehow damaged the role, which is what you seem to be implying here, you say that instead of 'OMG STOP GUYZ' and only ever OMGUSing. The fact is that Titus right now apparently know your role, which means that if she is scum scum know your role. Now there are a few instances where that is okay. 1 if you are sure that Titus is town or your role lets you know that Titus is town, 2 if you are scum which means you know Titus is town and are using her to vouch for you.

And my biggest pet peeve is when people try to lynch townie even if said townie has high utility to town. And no, I am not saying this just to save myself, but I sincerely believe it. For instance, if you were trying to lynch one of my townreads, I would be saying the same thing. In this case, it just so happens that I have utility.

You have played this game before right? Scum only gets lynched day 1 about 30% of the time. Yes you are only saying this to save yourself, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever except as an excuse to save yourself. You are allowed to point out why we should think you are town, but you can't just say 'don't do this please'.

Look, I'm trying not to go too far with this, but please try to look at your posts from the perspective of someone that doesn't know you are town to see what I am talking about.

Pedit: I thought you thought I was scum? Like you were voting me and everything. If I figured out your role (which I think I might've) then this whole gambit thing was dumb and anti-town. Why do you want me to know who you are if you think I am scum here?

I can just go on, and on, and on. These aren't scumreads, these are apologies for lynching the people he's voting.

I'm pretty sure Jeanne has scumslipped in this whole business. I am certainly not unvoting here, but I will reread to make sure that there isn't any town reason for her to do what she just did.

"No town reason..." Yep, sorry Jeanne, had to lynch you, there was just no town reason. Not "scum" just, "no town reason". It's constant.

Oh yes:

VOTE: Sharky the fact that you still haven't voted TN is setting off some serious warning bells in my head.

I'm not sure if I actually want you to claim here,

If we go with the theory that Sharky = 3rd party then, well. Look at this again, from the perspective of the scum team.

All he posts is theory, Titus. Theory, theory theory.

Shall I do what you did with Elbirn and yell for a 1v1? I'm pretty damn certain when I looked. It's all just... empty. It's all empty talk with no purpose or point. Discussions of how the game works, discussion of how to play mafia properly, nothing that actually resembles scumhunting. And the interactions with TN are pure, pure scumbuddy. Shiro thinks, Itle talks.

[zMuffinMan]

the only point there that i think has any validity is the point about his initial tn stuff

the rest of it looks like you picking things out to back up the conclusion

what do you mean "shiro thinks"?

[zMuffinMan]

that said, i would find it rather hilarious if itlepip is scum who was chainsawing tn given his whole deal about chainsawing at some point

[zMuffinMan]

rather than suggesting "all he posts is theory", can you tell me what reads other than the jeanne one you think are based on "theory"? because even if i squint and look at it sideways and agree that the jeanne push was more theory than scum hunting, that's the only "theory"-based read he's given that i can see

i don't agree with the lack of scum hunting point. i wouldn't say he's been doing the strongest scum hunting, but i don't think it's fair to pull up 6 quotes and gloss over the game-relevant stuff. there has been a fair amount of theory talk but i don't think his play has been dominated by it, though

i also disagree if you're suggesting that shiro has been scum hunting

unless you have a really weird definition of scum hunting

the strongest point you have against itlepip is that his interactions with tn aren't good but i don't think those interactions alone are particularly compelling. more so because the fact that he'd have had to be chainsawing tn while acknowledging that the act of chainsawing is scummy, which i think doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless he was not conscious of the fact he was doing it...

meanwhile, you legitimately have virtually zero scum hunting from shiro and you're ignoring that because shiro "thinks"? thinks about what? how to fly under the radar?

[RolePlay25]

Ok, I'm betting 3dice and Jeanne are both scum. No way this was TvT, and it seems to rehearsed for TvS

What if I told you I was masons with Jeanne, how would that change your appraisal and why?

If this was confirmed I would be mad. I don't think scum would claim mason with a partner, but it isn't impossible.

If it were good theory in training, as you said agent, does it not apply in the field?

Your style is your own, for I shall not target a claim of mason at first dawn, but I mislike such reversals.

I never claimed mason. I presented a hypothetical in order to receive a response which I have not yet received. And just because I agree it's bad practice to rely upon past games as ones reasoning for reads in the current one does not mean I believe doing so is scummy.

*whew. Okay, I am beginning to feel a Jeane and Cerberus world.

3dice feels sorta similar to the game where he was my scumpartner but I don't know his town game so I'm not gonna do anything on that front.

Well shit. I reread and both 3dice and Jeanne are scummy AF

Talk about going for the easy targets.
VOTE: DiamondSentinel

That post is just... WOW. So ridiculously stupid.

"I have someone who I think is scum, and there's someone else who also thinks that they're scum, but the scummy person is an easy target (even though I think they might be scum) so I'm going to vote the person scumreading them."

Get the fuck out of here.

I never said I scumread 3dice, stop intentionally misinterpreting my posts.

I am reading it the way Diamond did, but Davsto is NAI from this

I don't want to be replaced. >.>

You won't be! We're just gonna be quiet so we don't bloat the thread for the half of the game that isn't posting and thus might not be reading.

great, my top two scumreads are going to stop talking, because one told the other to stop talking. I am counting that weird prod paranoia and Cereberus not correcting her to be scum indicative.

I hate it when people say that. "You look like you're leaving an opening for backpedaling" or the like, where they're like "ooooh setting up to do X". No, you're assuming that. If you think someone's leaving an opening for something, note it down somewhere that isn't inthread and then call them out when they actually do it. All you're doing otherwise is scumreading someone for potentially doing something in the future which they haven't actually done and may never have been planning to do, or you may simply let scum know not to do that when they would have, stopping them from doing something scummy.

Basically, those reads are awful and I immediately lean towards someone being scummy when they do it because anyone can go "they look like they're getting ready to do something scummy" and get a free, easy scumread.

PEdit: Insane Cops are bastard tho

Holy shit this. I might need to save this rant for later, I have made this exact point in a few other games. *applause.

Before I stop posting, I'd say I'm game.

VOTE: tn

~Bye bye~

Wee random wagon if nonsense but won't explain why...

Will finish catching up tomorrow, not excited to read a day of posts without my scumreads though.

I'm pretty sure Jeanne has scumslipped in this whole business. I am certainly not unvoting here, but I will reread to make sure that there isn't any town reason for her to do what she just did.

VOTE: Sharky the fact that you still haven't voted TN is setting off some serious warning bells in my head.

I'm not sure if I actually want you to claim here,

Cerberus was all theory. His attacks on me were just looking for a decent target.

There's gonna be a real egg on your face when Itle is scum and Shiro is town by the way~

[zMuffinMan]

how in the fuck was the cerberus vote "all theory"?

[zMuffinMan]

There's gonna be a real egg on your face when Itle is scum and Shiro is town by the way~

do you want to take the nacho pact with me?

one of us sheeps the other today, if the person being sheeped is right, they get the sheep's vote for the rest of the game, if the person being sheeped is wrong, they have to sheep the sheep for the rest of the game (for as long as both are alive)

this is a pact of honour

you break it, and you shall forever be known as a fart-breath testicle-head

[zMuffinMan]

oh and the winner also gets the privilege of calling the other their bitch for the rest of the game

[zMuffinMan]

btw are you deliberately ignoring the posts that invalidate your position or are you just honestly not seeing them?

are you ever going to talk about what scum hunting you think shiro has done this game? or what you meant by "shiro thinks"?

[RolePlay25]

There's gonna be a real egg on your face when Itle is scum and Shiro is town by the way~

do you want to take the nacho pact with me?

one of us sheeps the other today, if the person being sheeped is right, they get the sheep's vote for the rest of the game, if the person being sheeped is wrong, they have to sheep the sheep for the rest of the game (for as long as both are alive)

this is a pact of honour

you break it, and you shall forever be known as a fart-breath testicle-head

Sure. You start.

btw are you deliberately ignoring the posts that invalidate your position or are you just honestly not seeing them?

are you ever going to talk about what scum hunting you think shiro has done this game? or what you meant by "shiro thinks"?

If something actually "invalidates my position" then I'll listen. If you make a crappy point based on the replacement queue that I refute and that you then nitpick and whine that

my

meta analysis is bad, I'm going to ignore that, because that is a very stupid thing for anyone to post and I don't really feel like talking about stupid things.

[itlepip]

RP, where the flying bat shit did that come from? First off guess what I can find a bunch of theory posts in everyone that actually has been trying to play this game cause between the Jeanne claim and now the wagon on me

all of it was theory

, look through those pages a find 1 time, 1 single time where we had a wagon build up near lynch on someone that was scummy because of a non theory reason. No instead we have had a bunch of claims and weird strings of connection and half counterclaims and balance discussions.

Second during the time that nice job leaving out the post where I actually vote cerberus and explain my read on him. How the hell is this "All theory". All you have proven if you ignore whatever you want you can make people look scummy.

VOTE: Cerberus fuck it.
The fact that he hasn't voted, hasn't really any reads, and his entire game is just small points (actively lurking) rather than real content is bad, especially when he is making a big show of not going to be lynched is pretty scummy in my book.

@Elbirn @Shiro can I join the masonry?

Aren't you afraid of shiro or something?

I town-read her here. We all town-read each other here, so why can't I be honorary masons with you both.

Elbrin isn't a good townread. Upon reading that VC, Agent Titus is moving back to DS. The company (minus Jeanne and roleplay) isn't good on TN and his response although pretty offensive to me personally, reeks of town wanting to sort people.

VOTE: DS

~Titus

I really don't see the DS wagon as scum here. Jeane and roleplay are my 2nd and 3rd scum reads right now. TN's wagon was fairly terrible and was made up of awful people. I'll with the Elbrin read. My gut is saying that this whole conversation is scum banter, I think that it is probably a conspiracy theory, but...

Yeah, just lynch me. I'm terrible at the game and my role is useless. Hell, I might even self-hammer.

A request like this should not be denied.

Vote: DiamondSentinel

Diamond if you selfhammering is playing against your wincon (which it probably is), I would rather that you replace out than play out the game with a role that you hate and want death for. That said I am getting pretty strong town vibes from Diamond, and his wagon feels mislynch baity to me.

First off not a theory post (shocker) and second I obviously know that Diamond is potential mislynch bait, but that doesn't mean he is town. He had a good start of the game, then posted absolutely nothing for a majority of the game and then claimed VT super early and was trying to keep pressure on an IC.

Still busy with holiday stuff...

But it's occurred to me that Diamond might be Vengeful, or Saulus, or Judas, or Jester, or something like that.

I should be more into the game tomorrow night.

Have a good one, everybody!!

HA! I wish I was vengeful. But no, Dramonic gave me something worse than any role you could possibly dream...

Also guys how is this post softing a VT unless Diamond doesn't think we could imagine a VT which doesn't make any sense. This feels at the very least that Diamond has some ability that he hasn't mentioned yet. You are complaining about how I'm using theory but then when you talk about Diamond "scum would never try to push on a confirmed town", which first I disagree with and second is pure theory.

Pedit: Here you go.

[RolePlay25]

RP, where the flying bat shit did that come from? First off guess what I can find a bunch of theory posts in everyone that actually has been trying to play this game cause between the Jeanne claim and now the wagon on me

all of it was theory

, look through those pages a find 1 time, 1 single time where we had a wagon build up near lynch on someone that was scummy because of a non theory reason. No instead we have had a bunch of claims and weird strings of connection and half counterclaims and balance discussions.

Oh okay, "everyone else was doing it too."

Yeah, see how my vote is not moving off you?

[RolePlay25]

It means you've failed at convincing me you're not scum.

Which is probably because that wasn't very convincing.

[RolePlay25]

RP, where the flying bat shit did that come from?

Like, did you actually think I was voting you because your name rhymes with Pittletip or something? I pulled your name out of a hat?

You probably did at that.

Muffin's starting to doubt, he wouldn't offer the nacho pact if he thought I was totally wrong.

[itlepip]

If there are important theory things going on I'm not going to ignore it because I would be scared that RP might someday quote it to say that I've never posted anything but theory. When all of the content in theory, which is possible because of how complicated these roles are, yeah you are going to talk about theory. You mr talked a ton about theory and those posts are the reason I have a townread on you even with the misrep shit. Normally in mafia talking about theory is scummy because there generally isn't enough to talk about to make it worth it for town. But when you basically have god in the form of sharky with an unknown alignment, 2 miller claims, a person claiming a weird weak neighbor and whatever went down between EAP and muffin, there is enough stuff there that people are going to be talking about theory. Now they should just talk about theory, and someone who did yes is probably scum, but I haven't done that. You ignore my non theory posts, say that my theory posts are scummy and then say that saying that the game was very theory heavy was scummy when it objectively was.

You still haven't gone over your DS townread, which I have asked for numerous times now.

Pedit: nice, you're scum because I think you are scum because you haven't convinced me you aren't scum when I ignore whatever you say that doesn't look scummy.

[itlepip]

The batshit was directed at your case of me only posting theory, but yeah when all of your reasons for voting me are shit your vote is pretty batshit.

[RolePlay25]

Talking about theory is always at best null. Voting on theory is bullshit.

VOTE: tn

tn is scum for wanting me to answer despite knowing it may put a target on my back. Imo only scum would be unconcerned with this, because they're trying to get a mislynch. Also, since the beginning she was gunning for my mislynch. I wonder why that is? Maybe because she knows I'm an easy mislynch due to my personality. Well, no more nice girl. Ask me any questions you might have and I will explain to you just why I think tn is scum.

Ooh you are changing who you are OMGUSing... Chainsaw defending yourself doesn't work either.

Isn't a chainsaw defense "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum", so if you are defending yourself by OMGUSing everyone on you wagon...

Can we just agree that what Jeane is doing is scummy and move on?

VOTE: Jeane

Like this is just a bunch of buzzwords from the wiki strung together. That's literally all it is. It's a fucking pile of jargon and shit. It means fucking nothing, hell, you don't even know what it means, you just think it sounds good.

Sucks you're getting lynched for the wrong reasons, right? Don't care. Get fucked scum.

[itlepip]

Yes, I know all of those terms by heart but as scum I just choose to use them wrong. Again you get rid of everything that wasn't wrong jargon, which I admit was there but was a tiny part of my walls of pushing Jeanne. You have managed to edit down my iso to about 5 posts and then make two mutually exclusive generalisations about my iso which are both wrong. The buzzwords are not theory discussion, but somehow all of my posts are both buzzwords and theory.

If you actually had a semidecent case on me you wouldn't resort to making up shit. I think that Diamond is scum but I'm not saying that his early game was super scummy because it wasn't. Town doesn't gain anything by you misrepresenting things.

[RolePlay25]

Yes, yes, if I post a lot you can complain about my wall posts and say I'm posting everything, if I post examples and invite others to look through your ISO and see what you're saying I'm cherry picking. 1/10 originality, seen it lots before, not interesting.

I'm not here to convince you that you're scum, Dramonic did that when he sent you BBMolla's role PM. I'm here to convince the town to kill you.

[Shiro]

@zmuffin

I am pretty sure it was said in the signup that characters pick will affect our roles.. My theory is that alignments were first roled then roles were made based on the flavour.

Flavour correlation is 100% I mean look at your role pm, there is no way flavour wasn't taken in consideration when creating the roles.

[Mass Flop]

I'm confused, is mastin's reads list supposed to be colourized?

Nope, never do that.

This is the way I've done it for...well, a long time, now. It's efficient.

That being said, probably gonna need to start from scratch.

I remember basically nothing.

Soyeah. You can ask about any read, and when I eventually get to that point I'll answer, but there's like a 75% chance the answer will be, "...Well honestly I don't know anymore. It happened there, so I had to have had a reason, don't recall it anymore." (The other 25% being if something jogs my memory.)

No, the stupidity award goes to you. Only stupid people would scumread me when I am town.

Very much town.

tn and sharky read town to me. idk about jeanne. 3dice is slightly scummy.
VOTE: diamond

Errant, you are

really

good at making me half-love, half-hate what you say.

Still thinking town though.

VOTE: DiamondSentinel
Calls out Jeanne and I for mixing insults with content.
Does the same thing a post later.

This is still scum.

Saying shit like this and only stupid people scumread you day 1 is overly antagonistic. Second, it's false. All you're doing is making people WANT to lynch you. Every ounce of information revealed MUST have a purpose. I don't see any reason for Lol claiming mason. That's what you do AFTER the scums wagon you, not before.
Think before you post. Does this post help people read me, show someone as scum, help solve an alignment or unify town? If no, don't post it.
I am a stubborn dick at points, but you must know what you are doing.
~Titus

Titus is being nice.
Titus is being NICE.

I am, very, very, VERY much, freaked out about this.

Glad to see that you are town this game.

ESPECIALLY given this.

(Yes. This is where I'm at.)