Queen of Hearts [Game Over]

[Vedith]

VOTE: Ank

Okay, so I've never been this role before so if I am doing it too soon, meh. But I think you are supposed to claim day 1.
I'm a Miller.

[Vedith]

I mean, should I have just kept it quiet?

[Vedith]

If you've never been this role before, why do you think that you're supposed to claim Day 1?

Because I've seen people complain at others for not doing so.

[Vedith]

So the only reason you did it is because you don't want people to complain at you?

I assumed it's the thing you do. People complain all the time regardless.

[Vedith]

You first said that you didn't want people to complain at you.

I was actually stating a fact
I never said I didn't want people to complain at me.

Words are hard, eh?

[Vedith]

No that was the right play, I just don't believe you.

Ah, okay.

[Vedith]

would anyone be up for policy lynching cupcake?

Policy lynches are garbage.
So... No.

[Vedith]

Obnoxious and blunt posting style usually gets you townread.
Sugar-coating, polite and diplomatic posting style usually gets you scumread.

Is this why you are trying to be Obnoxious and blunt so people town read you?

[Vedith]

You've been pretty blunt
Not obnoxious tho

Give it time, I can just tell his fingers are itching.

[Vedith]

Are you implying that I will try to be obnoxious on purpose in the future, so I can get townread?

I believe you could plant the seed to try for town points, yes.

[Vedith]

Ah. Well, that's a pretty good strategy, especially considering I revealed myself that I think it would make me look town. (yes yes, wifom wifom)

But you only planted the seed. Then denied that you were playing like that when called out.
But now seem to be accepting that you are playing like that?

I'm confused here, which one is it?

[Vedith]

#72 was a joke. I sarcastically said that it would be a pretty good strategy for scum!harkonnen to try to be obnoxious on purpose, to get townread, after he himself saying that doing that should get him townread. Hence the (wifom wifom) comment at the end.

I don't do jokes.
Lets face it, I'm not wrong, am I?

[Vedith]

VOTE: Frootloop

Nice flip flops there, Grapes!

[Vedith]

i think that he's scum, man

also vedith i don't wear flip flops?

Then why the fuck are you flip flopping around with these bad naked votes?

[Vedith]

Probably that I struggle to explain reads sometimes, or that my thoughts are jumbled and end up looking fake

I can see this being true. Doesn't mean it's AI though.

[Vedith]

Never said it was

The NAI part wasn't directed at you.
More directed at anyone wanting to use it as a reason.

[Vedith]

chill out that was my first vote damn

Then I retract my comment.

[Vedith]

from this point on in the game in Day 1...lets all stop putting town labels on people.

Town post. (Sarcasm for the slower players).

in regards to my previous vote on grapes. Scum tend to try to make friends early day 1. it is human nature to "feel good" about someone who says you are town, even if you dont know you are doing it. I disagree with grapes (and cakez later) that X and X are town. there was very little reason to think that other than "this is how town players are supposed to play in a particular situation". to start (seriously) saying people are obv town this early in the game FOR NO REASON is bullshit. all it does it puts a mark on someone's back. if you are scum, it earns you friends.

I think it's a case that scum fear decent town blocks.
They want everyone to be suspected at all times. I agree that buddying happens, not as much as town calling someone town, but it does. The fact you don't want anyone to be town read/called on day 1 at all is scummy as fuck.

162 is so damn awful, and you are actually using a start date to say how someone should or shouldn't react to a post.
I'm not sure what your interact was overly with Froot, or what the actual point was. Looked to me trying to appear making an effort, when in reality, it was a waste of time.

UNVOTE: Ank
VOTE: curiouskarmadog

"what I was trying to figure out here, is if you really care." - I mean, yeah, okay!

[Vedith]

you know I have to immediately look at your join date when you post this right?

lol

yeah, that is what I thought.

someone who has experience in this game like UT, would not have voted THAT post (Froot) over other actual scummy things in this games. The post was newbie-ish at best. it looked like low hanging fruit.

for the record, did you think that UT's vote of Froot's post was a good one, given the content of the post?

Again, using join dates to determine posts - Scummy as shit, you also won't intimidate me to back down with such comments either, kiddo
Now, you are asking all of the wrong questions here. What you are asking is if the way the vote was is good rather than where the vote was. The vote itself is town, I mean, someone with that kind of experience doesn't give so little content in the vote while scum, right? Right?! This is what you are clearly basing it on. Personally, without using stupid reasons to read someone as scum (Yeah, sadly your reasoning fell under this ), their vote is NAI. They backed up the comment with posting a quote, so it wasn't a naked vote. Basically the response just looks like what I see from Froots. This vote can be town looking at it as scummy, could be scum that see an easy opportunity (this is why it's NAI, just so you know )
Regard who the vote is on, and to what post... This is what you should focus on.
Voting Froot looks to be justified here. Her comments are unusual. If someone appears to be scum hunting, they should be town read, and then follows up with questioning that are obviously trying to be seen as scum hunting (after the original comment, of course) but make no sense if she were looking for scum.
Asking someone what's scummy about their general play isn't scum hunting, it's asking a question, to ask a question. There's no question to advance the game, instead, dwelling on the negatives.

That said, just finishing a game with Froots, I think that she just words things differently.

It does interest me that the only part of my post to you that you brought up was the part about your awful post on UT.
The whole point of your interaction with Froots was ignored, the "OMGAWD Don't town read" comment was ignored

what I was trying to figure out here, is if you really care.

I want you to go over this one with me again, as this is the most bullshit I've seen in a while.

But if someone just comes out of no where and starts providing town lists...blah. 7 times out of 10 scum.

I'd like you to provide proof to this comment.
Your stats, seem just that little bit off.

[Vedith]

Countdown to deadline: 4 days, 2 hours, 19 minutes

So it's only week phases. Did not notice that.
Well, anyone who votes with me and votes off scum I'll put you in a town block for tomorrow

[Vedith]

How have we not lynched this yet? Is no one else seeing this? Is it really just me?

Apparently so.

[Vedith]

VOTE: The Bulge

Yo cakes. Help me kill this.

Is this because Marquis was a no go?
Talk to me about the vote. Why Cakez to help you kill Bulge?

[Vedith]

Bulge has more votes.

Well actually no, he shared the same amount of votes as Marquis.
Now, I'm sure you didn't want to jump on a leading wagon otherwise Froot on 4 would have been perfect for you. You also have Muffin, Sera and UT on 2.

So tell me, what appeal has the vote on Bulge have that these 4 names don't?

[Vedith]

What if I told you that of the votes out there, bulge is the only one I think has a shot at flipping scum?

So you honestly believe that there is slim to zero chance in 9 of the people with votes on them (excluding Marquis, of course) of flipping scum?
Explain this a bit further to me.
What makes Bulge scummier than anyone else, other than "He had a vote on him"?

[Vedith]

what part do you not understand? read the interaction. she asked me a question...I was trying to figure out if she really wanted to know. so I asked her if she actually read what transpired. Not sure, exactly what you are missing...or if you are actually missing anything, but just trying to throw shit against the wall to see if it sticks.

what part EXACTLY do you not "get"?

also how big are you into metas? I have complained about town lists numerous times as town (and maybe once as scum). I have also judged people numerous time (I think solely as town) by their join date...if you have a certain level of experience there are certain things protown players dont/shouldnt attack.

if I provide these games...would you read them? (hint: answer should be yes, if you are going to continue pushing the argument).

I dont think Froot is scum, I think UT was looking for something to easily jump on without having to scum hunt.

I still don't see it. I see a pointless conversation that didn't provide.
Meta? Well I don't care for self meta. I mean, you can link me games, but I'm sure if you're scum it will be selective games. I can say "I do X in games" and then link 3 games where I've done that, out of all my games. However, if people with meta on you agree with this, sure I'll accept it. Although no one has come to your aid as of yet?

But this you are contradicting yourself... You are saying that with UT's join date, he should know exactly what to do and how to vote people while giving the impression on town, but then saying that he is scum to trying to jump on an easy wagon.
Just explain that to me again. Either knows how to vote and look town or not. This is where your join date opinion is wrong, and if actually town, need better ways to look for scum.

So Froots is a null for you, even though UT is scum pushing for an easy lynch, correct?

[Vedith]

UNVOTE: The Bulge
VOTE: Grapes

@Grapes - Now Bulge is back to 1 vote, does this make you want to change your opinion again?

[Vedith]

that would be great, right. I provide games, then you check and find OTHER games I didnt provide? BOOM, I must be scum. For the past 2 years, I have only played one game at a time, so I really cant hide shit. soooo you want me to pull some? or you can just do it...not hard.

in regards to UT, there is NO contradiction. I dont see TOWN UT voting that post....thus why I think he is scum...it is about motivations.

Froots is probably town..if he flips scum, I know I will be eating a bunch of shit, but I think given his posting and UT's vote...Froot is probably town and I am leaning UT is scum...UNLESS this was an early bus, but too early to really tell.

I'm happy to look myself (tomorrow as it's 1am) but I'd still like people to confirm the meta on you if it's such a reliable reasoning.

With UT, can you confirm if you've played several times with him as both align? I don't recall ever playing wither either you or UT on this site. I still think your read on people and how they do things having effect from join date is garbage. I've seen many experienced players on here make terrible plays as town.

With Froots, I'm not sure I see her as town yet, as I haven't seen enough, but as I said, she has a unique way of putting things which can easily be seen as scummy.
I'm not feeling the UT vote. I could go for Grapes though - He's trying to sweet talk me as he knows I like that. Share you advanced opinion here if you wouldn't mind.

[Vedith]

That's not true.

The part of you doing it, or the part that I like it?

[Vedith]

The part of you doing it, or the part that I like it?

Actually, have you ever been scum for me?

[Vedith]

I didn't like his entrance into the game.

He was really focused on harkslot for something that I didn't find all that alignment indicative and he seemed overly convicted considering how early it is. Then karmadog calls him out on the vote and now it's because his post was "robotic" kinda think scum are more likely to tack on buzzwords.

Didn't see this, my bad.
But that can be said for many people in this game. It's what happens in most games, the RVS stops because people pick up on scum tells (or push the fake ones).
I don't understand the buzzwords comment. Offsite we have a player who consider scum if they say "kill" instead of "Vote". I don't see it at all, as it's more of a personality trait rather than an alignment trait. Why would scum use robotic rather than town?

I don't see his entrance bad. He voted (naked, yes) and then responded in a joking way to a vote on him.
How about someone for example Muffin, asking for a PL? Who still hasn't placed a vote. I don't understand why Bulge is so special here?

That said, I'm really going to bed, more on this tomorrow.

[Vedith]

I voted someone who I think is scum. Sue me.

I just want to confirm. I'm not saying that your play is terrible, I was more making a point about that being the reasoning.

And I'm not really sure what's comparable here? Like you yourself said what makes muffin special it's that he's not posted any content besides pushing a pl and I'm not even sure if it's serious.

I wanted to use it as an example. And give you an opportunity to go with a case on him. You didn't tae it so there's that.
I've played with Muffin a total of once. I had him as scum from day 1 and got it right. I think it was more from inexperience with him though as people believed that he plays that kind of way all the time.

"What's content even mean"

I don't really know if there's a correct answer to that. Much less an alignment indicative one.

I saw this more of a dig at him. Anyone can give content so yeah, what kind of content did Hark want?

in regards to UT, i dont think i have every played with him. I have also seen experienced players make terrible plays as town (see my worry about DGB and the word "defensive"). but is day 1, and I am looking for anything...ANYTHING..that gives clues.

Okay, I like where you're thinking, as it's the small slip ups that give scum away more than the big ones imo.
However, the way you spoke about UT I had the impression that you had experience here.
I'm not sure how to think about this.

now are you really asking me my opinion on grapes?

I mean the recent discussion with him and me. Views can change, and I think I made a valid point to his votes and reasons.
The only issue I have with Grapes is that I normally scum read him every game, and since I don't recall him ever flipping scum, I'm wrong a lot of the time (given as scum I've pushed him before).
I actually want to know if my comment has reason to see him as scum or if I'm stuck in a scum reading spiral with him.

"advanced opinion". lol, guess you think I am being over confident? hardly, when you check out my play (at least the last 3) I start freaking out towards the end (when not scum) second guessing myself. if I have learned anything is to always go with my gut. speaking of which I think Cakez has played with me the most recently. My gut thought his hydra was scum last game and he wasnt (of course our last game, there were not real scum and town) DGB and I go way back, but I took a 2-3 year break, so I dont know how well she really knows me now.

Okay, I obviously sounded a lot more sarcastic here then I was aiming for (which was for little or none).
I will be checking your games out once I have a chance, as it's going to be profitable in pushing forward.
Concerning DGB, if she's scum, at least we can find buddies out when she flips. I'm not worried about focusing there on day 1 as she's a good player as town.

Okay, you are just spamming baseless nonsense now...

Seraphim's read on Vedith is pretending to be confident and I think he is scum-aligned.

As a Miller, you don't survive to Lylo. What good is there for him pushing me day 1 as scum?
I could understand if there was a wagon building on a scum buddy of his, but there was nothing at this point worth of interest.
I don't think he's worth the focus right now, and probably just lazy town rather than opportunist scum.

so far I have grapes town anyway tho and cakez townlean. everything else equalized out to meh. weak game atm

Didn't you have Hark as town too? Has this changed?

@UT - 251 - Did you see this post? I'm interested in your view on this situation, as you seem to be one of the prime topics so far.

[Vedith]

Catch up later

[Vedith]

Vote: DGB

I like you better when you were voting me.
Just seems now that you gave up on me and moved where an easy vote can be cast.

[Vedith]

UNVOTE: curiouskarmadog

So I checked your games, including a scum game. Now, you weren't really challenged as much in the scum game (Mini 1758) apart from RC basic comments like I did to you.
The only thing I noticed was the in depth posting. As scum, your attitude doesn't seem to alter as when town, not for me anyway. I do think you try to come across as overly confident regardless. But you amount you respond with, the referring comments stand out a lot more as town.
I'll give you that one.

You said that you start to flip flop in games as town. I don't see that, what did you mean by that?

[Vedith]

Sorry I just finished a game that totally demotivated me

Chin up DGB, find some scum.

[Vedith]

Last time I did it got ME lynched

We aren't lynching you, today at least.
Talk to me about 232
I could be guilt!Biased but I don't see anything wrong with Froots.

[Vedith]

Hey muffin you should call me stupid some more. You still haven't laid down a really good quote for my sig.

Talk about self centred...

VOTE: Bulge
Let's go, let's go!

[Vedith]

Say what? I do all the time you saying you don't?

There's a difference on trying to look scummy and acutally looking scummy.

[Vedith]

there's also a very simple way to verify this is the case: a mass alice claim

but i dunno whether people want to do this (though it should be rather obvious already that i'm not one)

My title is Alice if that helps? But my name isn't.

[Vedith]

Sorry I wasn't very active at the end of yesterday. I was on holiday and thought I'd be able to post more.

I'm suspicious of Seraph's claim. I don't know why he would include the vig aspect of his role if he's a town player. I would claim neighbourizer and leave it at that. As scum, he'd know that a vig is more helpful to town and definitely wouldn't get lynched. I also agree with what Muffinz was saying about Seraph pretending to play badly but then calling out people who voted for him for that play.

I'd also like some confirmation of the neighbourizing, at least.

@UT - I responded to your 206 in 217. Do you think I haven't been contributing all game? Or before that post? I also disagree that I wasn't contributing - I've explained why I asked the questions. About your comment about seeming awkward - have you read any of my previous games? I'm asking because people regularly comment about my tone seeming detached but it's not AI.

About Peregrine, I was talking about 282, 283 and 284. I read it as PV stating CKD's role and then voting for Cakez for doing that. But I misunderstood. I also didn't connect then that PV replaced Hark, who I thought was town. So I'm town-reading that slot at the moment.

I've got some problems with Vedith's play:
- speculating about Hark between 69 and 73. I don't know why it's necessary to speculate like this so early in the game, especially about potentially scum-indicative play.
- Didn't read before reacting to grapes' vote. I don't understand how that reaction can be legitimate when it's contradicted by the play. This makes me think it's made up and jumping on a chance to criticize another player.
- I got the feeling that Vedith lost the train of his conversation with CKD. Again, this makes me think that he wasn't truly engaged with the conversation with I think is AI.

All of this activity is shade-throwing without foundation which I think is scummy.

Vote: Vedith

Sit down, lets not have another episode of last time.

[Vedith]

Can you explain your play a bit? I can't ignore it just because of last game.

I can't ever explain my play.
I rely on others to do that for me.

[Vedith]

Considering its Ira, that's not a fake town slip...

[Vedith]

Town doing some 10/10 work here.

@Froots - Talk to me about your other reads.

[Vedith]

Pedit: The Bulge was also a bodyguard. I'm not sure how many is reasonable to have in the game.

@Vedith

I think Muffin's town because of the interaction with ira, I'm also town-reading CKD and was Hark.
About thenewearth - a different site I played on had double voters as normally town-aligned but I don't see that in the wiki here. Is it a common scum role?
Seraph - waiting for the confirmation of the neighbourizer. I'm worried about his claim, like I said before, and other aspects of his play.
I think UT's play is quite town but I'm also worried that he hasn't said anything about looking at my other games. I guess that's playstyle, but I'm not very comfortable with it.
About you - I don't know why you would have thought grapes was flip-flopping when he definitely hadn't. If you're town, I don't know where that thought/suspicion would come from. As scum, you could've seen the naked vote and jumped on it, without properly looking at grapes' play.

I don't really have any feelings about anyone else. I want to have a look at DGB because some people have been talking about her.

Having more than 2 would be over kill. It's now to decide if they are both town.
I don't really like the Ira votes. He's a different style of player imo. The fact he couldn't understand Muffin's reasoning on him and has the mind set that he's more or less confirmed town highly suggests town to me.
Muffin I'll agree is town, putting way too much effort into framing someone as scum.
TNE I haven't had many games with yet, seems a lot less aggressive than I remember though, but that could purely be down to many things like player list, setup etc.
Sera wouldn't be scum while attacking me after my claim, only thing that would be more doubtful was that he switched off me easier than expected.
UT seems to be looking for an easier lynch with the Ira situation, trying to throw mud in the water for me. Saw an opportunity and grabbed it.
I'm not worried about your thoughts on me, I'm trying to get a better idea of your play here, it seems to be quieter than before, but again, many things can be the cause of that.

DGB I am going to say will most likely be unreadable to me this game, lately in games she just hasn't had any motivation it seems to play to her potential. Hopefully things pick up because I like playing with DGB town.

Do you have an opinion on Katsuki? Or Wingback?

What if I told you I think Katsuki is scum trying to coast by on the game?

[Vedith]

@Vedith - you might not be worried about my thoughts about your play but I'm talking about something specific which worries me and you haven't offered an explanation.

I don't need to offer an explanation. If you feel what I did was scummy then voice your opinion over it.

Sooo, what do you think?

I mean, I've kind of already answered this.

That's easily fabricated. Especially since ira's responses don't have a coherent theme as far as I can see. He's saying "that doesn't make sense" and "I'm town" a lot. Basically, if it seemed like ira thought they were having a different conversation, and contributed to that conversation, I'd think it's less likely to be fake. ira doesn't look like he's having any conversation.

So you think that ira did forget that a bookie was a role, despite the game two months ago? This is the post I have a problem with:

Plausable, just not probably.
I'm not going to say if Ira actually forgot his role or not as only he knows, all I'm going to say is that I myself forget many roles I've been in. There's roles I've been that I've probably forgotten what they do. Ira plays in several games a time so it's not out of the question, but again, I can't say.
One thing that crossed my mind is if he faked it as town to get conversation going and it back fired.
There's also the point from Muffin where he tried to claim lack of knowledge in the game he posted, but I'm not sure if he was town or scum in that game I haven't looked yet.

I think ira got caught out when Muffin starting asking about it and this is how he justified the question, but this post is contradicted by the other game.

I'm not really thinking that much about Seraph. I'm worried, but if we get the info about the neighbourhood then it'll be more settled. I'm more open to UT but I've read some of his play as town.

I can see that, I just think it was too easy of a fumble considering it's Ira.
His post contradicting again could have reason depending what he was there.
If he was scum, of course his opinion contradicts if he's in a town mindset now, if he was town there then sure, I could see him in a lot less of a town set mind now.

Could be. Neither of them have done very much so it's possible. There's a lot of players in the game I'd put in that category. Why do you think Katsuki's scum over some of the others?

[Vedith]

I am certain there is more than one in this game.

@UT - This does not look like a soft claim to a BG.
I checked her other posts and see nothing else you can have thought as it.

[Vedith]

I am certain there is more than one in this game.

@UT - This does not look like a soft claim to a BG.
I checked her other posts and see nothing else you can have thought as it.

...well I don't really know what to say to that.

Phone posting so can't quote but what do you think about DGB thinking Ira is town?

[Vedith]

I think she's wrong

that doesn't really address the issue, which is your assertion "I'm certain another (role) is in this game" doesn't at least look like a softclaim. which is ludicrous.

I said it isn't a soft claim BG, I didn't say it isn't a soft claim.
You get to call my comments ludicrous when you actually read them correctly.

[Vedith]

I think she's wrong

So you think she's wrong, but the fact you dis like Ira suggests you think she is town BG (right?)... Don't you think DGB would doubt Ira here with that kind of information given if she was a BG and Ira is?

[Vedith]

and I find it being a BG softclaim waaaaaaaaaaaay more likely than any of those three.

I don't see it.

As I said, I think DGB would have been a lot more concerned over it instead of calling Ira town.

[Vedith]

Why do you think DGB would be questioning ira when you think it's ok that ira isn't questioning ckd?

Players style of play.

[Vedith]

what exactly are you seeing, then

That's what I see with this kind of question.

[Vedith]

what the fuck

"I think DGB is softclaiming this"
"I don't"
"What do you think then?"
"*Irrelevant bullshit*"
"What do you think DGB is claiming"
"omg ur fishing"

Unless you are suspecting DGB as scum here, suggesting what I think she was saying isn't beneficial. Do you disagree here?

[Vedith]

And the only reason I said I doubt about the BG is because it's in defence of someone who will possibly be a mis lynch today.

[Vedith]

iraonavp [4] - zMuffinMan, Katsuki, Untrod Tripod, Froot Loop

I mean, look at this wagon.
Muffin and Froot are the only valid people to be on this wagon out of you 4.
You and Katsuki are just throwing shit without actually discussing it.

That's right, I don't see your argument as you actually trying to work him out as scum or prove him as scum, you are just pressing worthless pressure on him to be doing something.

[Vedith]

if you're not voting someone, vote

if you're voting someone and nobody is voting with you, do something about it

So my choices are, Ira, Froot, DGB and you?

Yeeahh, no.

VOTE: Katsuki

[Vedith]

deadline is in two days and you want to start a new wagon on a player who has barely posted?

I'm voting where I think is scum, sadly town aren't doing a good job with their votes, and I'm not voting the 4 up for offer.
I can understand why you are satisfied with voting anywhere though.

[Vedith]

You can talk about what scenario you think is more likely, or the same.

Of course you can, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

[Vedith]

As I said, there's roles that I would have forgotten, so I don't see how others can't.
My comment was that if Ira was scum in the game linked then of course his opinion would change if he is town here. However, if he was town in that game, then sure, I could see it change as a scum mind set here.

[Vedith]

There we go!

[Vedith]

Catch up tomorrow

[Vedith]

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

[Vedith]

deadline is in two days and you want to start a new wagon on a player who has barely posted?

vote Katsuki

sigh

I'd prefer Froot Loop or iron but it looks like that's not happening today

This is scum.

[Vedith]

I bodyguarded Vedith

<3

[Vedith]

UT is scum and then I'd go with either kraska or PV (Maybe TNE, not sure what to think with the roles).
Rest I don't see as scum.

[Vedith]

vote Katsuki

sigh

I'd prefer Froot Loop or iron but it looks like that's not happening today

I think that's town

But it's really not...

[Vedith]

this was my thought coming into today as well

[Vedith]

idk muffin was kinda too overt about their focus on katsuki

I bet Katsuki said in the scum PT that he'd be lurking as usual.

Hence the joke prods.

Says there is no day chat.

[Vedith]

dgb, let's face it, you won the lotto with that cupcake lynch because 75% of the time you lynch him for "lurking", you're going to end up lynching a town player.

cupcake's scum meta isn't lurking any more than his town meta is. cupcake isn't more active as town

, if anything, he's less active in general because he doesn't need to keep up appearances. youve maybe seen cupcake play scum what? like 2 or 3 times? you have no idea what you're talking about if you think cupcake lurking is a scum tell

plus if you pride yourself on interaction analysis, which it looks like you do, then what do you think of his ISO? do you think he spent 90% of his time talking to and about his scum buddy and doing nothing else?

i didn't think cupcake was scum for pretty much precisely that. what he was doing in the game wasn't furthering his win con in any way, literally most of the time he was posting here he was bantering with me and look where that got him. lynched. i had a little more faith in his ability as scum; i figured he'd at least be

trying

to look like he was helping town in some way. *shrug*

by the bye, there are two reasons i'm NEVER going to consider iraon town and i'm never going to be surprised when he continues not dying every single night

the first is that i could very easily see cupcake doing his whole "iraon confirmed scum via setup" thing as distancing; i would have been interested to see what he had to say about it if he ever posted again but that was cut short. the alternative here is that he was peddling bullshit for no real reason but that's an odd angle to push

the second is this, and for as long as this game goes, i don't want anyone to forget this point so i'm going to bold it so people know i mean srs bsns:

fakegod isn't averse to having PGOs in this setup and i do not believe there's a town vig outside of seraphim

I feel that this is a lie.
So I decided to check out all the games on Katsuki's 1st page.
Activity seems higher as town. I saw 2 scum games, both were in a hydra but one game was pretty low activity, and the other game was below average. The town games appear to have above average posts and content.

[Vedith]

if you really, really want to take me up on this, let's bet real money on it (it's not technically anything to do with the game so it shouldn't count as outside influences, we're just discussing cupcake's meta)

for every town game you find with "higher than average" activity, i'll find two games where he lurked for at least the majority of the game

for every scum game you find where he lurked, i'll find two where he didn't

when you stop presenting me games, i win

when i stop being able to provide counter-games, you win

$100?

Styles of play / situations can change over time. I'm not interested in games 2 years ago etc.
I'm going by every game on the 1st page.

I can link each one if you like and we can go through it together?
Your argument here was that lynching Katsuki for lurking was bad, and that Katsuki posts even less as town, correct?

[Vedith]

yeah not so drastically that someone goes from "not lurking" as scum to "lurking" as scum, but sure whatever, let's only include recent games

i assume PYP is one of the games you're counting as a town game he was active in because that's one of his more recent (if not his most recent) town games? because if so, you weren't paying attention to the game. his ISO looks long because the game was long, but ask anyone in the game whether he was active

If you're so sure, then recent games will also be correct to what you are saying, right?
I actually did it by content and average posts. So what you are saying now that Katsuki posts more late game, Other players in those games were lurking, or...?
Because we can run through day by day on these games if you prefer? However, I'm sure you know that will waste both my time and your time to find out I was right.
But the choice is yours.

[Vedith]

Irao can you pls talk about your non-zMuffin reads?

UT Preferably.

[Vedith]

average posts is dependent on a lot of things (game size, page size, general time period games were taking place), how deep he lived into each of these games, etc

e.g. if you're comparing his "average posts" by looking at total posts in pyp (a 144 page game) vs his total posts in a 40-50 page game, you're doing it wrong

So I was responding with the stats of each game, and it actually turns out that 2 games going by time of death to actual page count were pretty low activity. There are more to suggest that town activity is higher (I believe it was 4 town games with higher activity, 2 with lower activity, 1 hydra with very high activity as town, 2 hydra scum games with very low activity, 1 scum game very low activity.

So I decided to leave it at that, it suggests strongly that he does post more as town, but there's not enough to go by with the games chosen to push this on you.
I'll retract my original comment.

My point with all of this though is DGB isn't wrong for seeing it as a scum trait.

[Vedith]

Town-aligned - DGB, curiouskarmadog, Vedith, FROOTLOOP, thenewearth, Ankamius
Null-aligned - kraska77, PeregrineV, SirCakez
Scum-aligned - zMuffinMan, Untrod Tripod

Then vote UT with me?

[Vedith]

Catch up later and all

[Vedith]

Untrod Tripod is right, more votes on them please!

[Vedith]

wagon cheerleader Vedith

<3

[Vedith]

UT is giving me really mixed vibes which is frustrating me
Lynching him is OK I guess but I really want Scum Loop gone

oh this is such horseshit. I've been calling Froot Loop scummy all game. Given that he's a bigger scumread, why are you pushing on THE ONE OTHER PERSON who has really been trying to make that lynch happen?

Can't we go over Froots and your scum read again?
I'm finding Froots pretty quiet.

[Vedith]

it's like we're playing mafia with a fucking toddler

Can you talk to me about Froots?
Without just pointing for people calling you scum, if we didn't lynch you today who would be better in your opinion, Froots or Ank?

What kind of information do you think either will give on a town flip (if they do, of course)?

It's fair to say that there's weak reasoning to your wagon. I'm voting you because more of gut and the way you are responding. I also feel that your possition on the wagon yesterday was weak and felt forced.
This could be said for others, but you seem to stand out.

Opinions of other players would be good too.

[Vedith]

I literally can't remember a single thing Vedith or Kraska have done all game.

I mean, I started the counter wagon to Ira and found scum.
But that's not important and all.

[Vedith]

Ank would be a terrible lynch today.

UT I really can't see being town.
When I try to talk about reads else where and sort out if a better vote would be else where, UT blanks me.
Considering I'm voting UT, there's no reason for him to not interact with me when I'm offering an option to listen.

Scum that can't be bothered imo.

[Vedith]

VOTE: Froots