Open 651: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[kyndy101]

Hello everyone! It's been a while since my last game, but I hope to get back in the run of things!

[kyndy101]

I think I've played with Vedith, Lycanfire and Shaddowez before, but everyone else is new to me, sooo....
VOTE: superbowl9 Just to start off RVS
Also, mostly because BLUH SUPERBOWL

[kyndy101]

(The sporting session, I mean- not the person. No offense, Superbowl9

[kyndy101]

Shadow is town. Just encase anyone here doesn't realise.

Who's next.

NJAC - Does it matter what they discussed?
You might as well see it as a completely different game.

I think the point is that since that scum team thought that way, we can maybe predict what this roll's scumteam is doing / planning

[kyndy101]

VOTE: kyndy101
Nice to see you again.

Likewise xD

Also upon thinking it I think it'd be rare for a reroll to include the previous scumteam as scum so
UNVOTE: Superbowl9

[kyndy101]

Yep they would, but at the same time I know I missed it when I first read the post and anyone could overlook one point like that

True, I would have missed it if I hadn't reread everything. It's funny too, cause I was actually going to RVS Shaddowez but then I saw that XD

@shaddowez - Pretty sure he could've just missed lilith saying you were town

It's definitely possible, but don't you think scum would look for an IC in a game where it's a known possible role?

But IC are conftown by mod at the beginning of the game, so why would scum need to look for them XD

[kyndy101]

Honestly, it just looks questionable to me that they were pushing it, however I can understand them not seeing it.

[kyndy101]

them

Who is the "them" you are referring to? Town or scum?

[kyndy101]

Because of an RVS vote?

Those RVS votes can get pretty spooky pretty quickly!

Idk about everyone else, but Vedith seems like a nice place to put my vote I think.
VOTE: Vedith

[kyndy101]

What do you mean, Lilith?

[kyndy101]

lol
I gotta say, I love this mod. Keeping it real

[kyndy101]

I'm Mountain Time

The only posts I didnt like were Kyndy101's posts here

Why did you feel the need to answer for NJAC?

so UNVOTE: Vedith
VOTE: Kyndy101

I also dislike the follow up excuse to drop an RVS vote

obviously rerolls are random, they are not likely or more likely to contain anything different to the previous roll

but more importantly why did you feel the need to justify dropping an RVS vote at all?

Honestly, I would normally reply to this post with "it's a little too early in the game to be having reads" but then again, I definitely have a read on Vedith. If anyone wants to know that doesn't see Vedith being scummy, I'll make a solid case perhaps tomorrow morning.
I don't see why my answering for NJAC was important? I usually try to step in whenever I see misunderstandings pop up, or at least offer my opinion when nobody asked, so that we're all finding out what page everyone is on. I didn't see it as answering for NJAC, more so my answering the question to see where everyone was at. I guess I could have waited for NJAC to respond too, I suppose, and then put in my response.
As for the "excuse" to drop an RVS vote, firstly, I feel like no matter what kind of vote it is, there should be a justification for everything done with said vote- changing it, adding a vote, or unvoting. Also, it wasn't an excuse, more so a reason / justification, as previously stated. I don't like your reasoning on voting me, that said.
I know that rerolls are random, but I find it highly unlikely that the same people got the same roles, or that even one of the two got the same roll.

[kyndy101]

I know that rerolls are random, but I find it highly unlikely that the same people got the same roles, or that even one of the two got the same roll.

Gambler's fallacy. If you roll a 6 on a die, is it any less probable that you'll roll a 6 again the next time?
I think what Bastion was talking about was the fact that you used non-rvs reasoning to justify taking off an rvs vote. "I randomly voted for this person, but on second thought they're probly not scum" That second part kinda implies you thought I was scum in the first place, even tho your vote was RVS.
Not that I agree with Bastion's read though.

Oh, fair point.. But if a random number out of one hundred was chosen, then what are the odds of that random number being chosen again? 1/100. But yeah, I see what you mean.
Well, I don't see it to mean that I thought you were scum in the first place, I take it as process of elimination. Sorry if it did sound that way to you and others..

[kyndy101]

Alright, time for my case against Vedith

@njac we decided to only use daytalk cause didn't want to load town with prs and play the night action guessing game (daytalk is just rly good tho).

Ignore my last comment, this is pretty interesting.
How is day talk any where near as good as recruiting the traitor?

Recruiting is the most powerful upgrade for the scum. I've never been in a game or hosted 1 where scum haven't taken traitor.

Could just be speculation, however the way he poses his question implies to me that, if he is indeed scum, he could be wanting to learn about his other options from pregame.

Why? I don't realise.

Because mod sent him a town PM!

Vedith could have pointed NJAC to the mod post, but phrases it as "mod sent him a town PM!", implying that he knew without a doubt. I know that we all know without a doubt because the mod said so, but this is just really odd wording for the response..

Tbh we took daytalk so we could discuss strategy as we were going along

I mean, I can see the appeal with day talk, but from experience, the cost outweighs the rewards.

What exactly is the cost? Interesting to me that Vedith is continuing this conversation, even after previously pointing out that it doesn't really matter except to figure out the players.

But seeing the type of players they are will possibly help later in the game.

Plausable, just not probably imo.
Both scum - They can lie
1 scum - Can easily adept, plus having another to influence them in the choices.
We only know very little about their type of plays from picks, and it only tells me that they have little experience with this setup.

It's also hard to tell things like day chat without a slip up, we can easily go all game and have no knowledge.

If we got to LyLo, It's me, you and and light with the following confirmations-

We lynched Scum JOAT and Scum Role Cop (meaning that the traitor was recruited). Both me and Light are town reads of yours, and our ISO gives very little but we are voting each other in LyLo (meaning you are confirmed).
would you then have any less suspicion on Light giving what you know he originally selected?

You don't have to answer, but think about that for a moment.

Vedith suddenly flips his opinion on learning about the players, after stating before that this is the only advantage of talking about that. The scenario offered also feels "off" to me, even if it was just to make a point.

But IC are conftown by mod at the beginning of the game, so why would scum need to look for them XD

Because voting an IC can draw negative attention which scum don't want.

But they don't have to worry about voting an IC anyways because the mod already conftowned them. Sorry, I can't remember if I cleared this up or not, I forgot and just saw it again. Interesting that two people questioning shaddowez alignment reads town even after he was conftowned, especially since the mistake can be pinpointed to them not seeing it in the mod's original post. That situation just still is very odd to me.

Because voting an IC can draw negative attention which scum don't want.

Plus, at this stage, only scum know how many roles there are for town.
Finding out that IC is one gives them a lot of information.

But they wouldn't need to vote the IC to know the IC is one because the IC is conftowned by the mod at the beginning of the game! This argument is so elementary, I don't understand why this was even offered up.

I'm just kinda following shadow here. I realise he didn't vote Sora, but seems a nice place for my vote to be.

Shadow is confirmed town, but in no way, shape or form should you believe his reads because of that reason alone.
*Waggles finger*

This is towny..........

Are you uncomfortable with my vote?

Yes. I fear that Sora is going to be lynched.

......But this isn't. Why were you so fearful for Sora? Seems like kinda buddying, to me. Especially since you were just talking to Sora about not following shaddowez..

Because of an RVS vote?

Those RVS votes can get pretty spooky pretty quickly!

This just reads wrong in so many ways to me. It feels extremely fake, almost sarcastic, but yet I'm having a hard time reading this as sarcastic.

I like this

I don't, it has me very uneasy being at L6!

Still having a hard time debating whether this was sarcasm or not, but it still feels really off :/

Please stop getting so defensive, Vedith! Two votes and you're death flailing already!

It's actually 3, however, your vote isn't what concerned me.
And neither does your fake day vig.

Interesting that Vedith instantly assumes the day vig was fake. What if it isn't? Kinda makes me wonder if Vedith knows how many roles scum chose...

It's actually 3

Oh it is 2, apparantly something happened in the game.

This just makes me REALLY confused and curious as to what Vedith meant.

so UNVOTE: Vedith
VOTE: Kyndy101

I also dislike the follow up excuse to drop an RVS vote

obviously rerolls are random, they are not likely or more likely to contain anything different to the previous roll

As scum, why would she want to give town less options to focus on, and more of a chance to focus her?

It confuses me that Vedith says this while his vote is still on me.

Imo lycanfire could be opportunistic scum here...

Probably not.
Just looks to be searching for a reaction.
Reactions mean nothing these days, so it's just a waste of time, but normally a townier tell than scum if it's not a "I was looking for a reaction, town read me" kind of way.

Why would reactions mean nothing? Also, why are you overlooking Light Ganski's comment by offering the point of looking for a reaction?

@Vedith do you get spooked easily?

It appears so!

I feel like you're grasping this opportunity to explain your behavior. I find it hard to believe your response.

I want to know.

She said tomorrow morning.
Regardless, we should focus on finding my buddy(s) atm.

As it stands

NJAC
Lycanfire
shaddowez

Are not my buddies.

That narrows it down pretty well.

Why do you use the term buddies? GAH that's so suspicious to me! Also, about this whole post I'm writing coming in late, I'm sorry, I've been taking care of my Grandmother who has Alzheimer's for the morning, which I thought my brother was going to do. Sorry everyone!

I'll have to carry on with this later - Swampped at work.

Right, I forgot my thought process

But it was a long the lines of
1 - She hasn't said her case on me yet, it could be really really good, voting before she aims for that looks like premature town cred. Are you premature, Light?
2 - Nothing is Kyndy's ISO looks bad as of yet. The case on the random unvote is weak, and too weak for a vote on her imo. Her "defending herself" I disagree with.
3 - That's right, I'm adding a 3rd - Kyndy has played with me before, and I've influenced lynches on her previously, and influenced her not being lynched (probably not a great deal, but I have). She knows already that I'm a loud player a lot of the time, mostly when wrong, and yet she challenges me over something that can be seen as an early read. I don't think she would address me straight away as scum if she were scum.

And who knows, she might be right, eh?

I'd also like to point out, Kyndy has always been an easier mis lynch in games I've played with her.

I can't fathom why you continue defending me with your vote still on me? Why did you add in the "and who knows, she might be right, eh?"? That just screams scum to me. It's almost so obvious that I am suspicious of my read on you, because how could anyone be this outright scummy?

[kyndy101]

Alright, long post incoming including responses and reads

[kyndy101]

READS LIST TIIIIME

Scum: Vedith

Null leaning scum: NJAC

Null: Lycanfire, Raskolnikov, hydras

Null leaning town: Light_gansky, Sora

Town: Shaddowez, Sir Bastion, Superbowl9

REASONING

Vedith

: See previous post on Vedith, however recent posts seem townier- possibly just do to increased effort to appear towny.

NJAC

: Starts off the game with an attempt to control the situation and lead the discussion with a question that imo didn't seem very relevant. Sheeping shaddowez b/c he's an IC isn't enough reason to vote someone , and 72 isn't much better. 73 is trying to seem relevant while trying to seem relevant while just digging up the grave of a discussion that died long ago in my mind; I agree with the question offered in 122, and 139 is a good content post. Because of his immediate attempt at controlling the situation early on and continually bringing up points that are dead, I have to say null-scum. His recent post, 159, seems to redirect focus from NJAC voting Sora to why Shaddowez was thinking about it, and in 160 it seems like he's trying to make himself relevant after being accused of flying under the radar.

Lycanfire

: I'm kinda surprised their first post was 86, which apparently referenced an ongoing game. Kind of all over the place and mostly fluff, with long gaps between posts that are 50% sarcasm, 45% fluff, and 5% seriousness. Not extremely scummy, but yet to be proven town.

Light_gansky

: My instinct says town due to reroll, but to analyze posts: not a lot of content, but still contributes by responding to people's posts and questions as well as providing own thoughts in discussion. It feels pretty null and fluffly to me, but nothing scummy so far imo.

Sora

:I like the content in 114 and 156, however I wish there were more posts. Null-town for now.

Sir Bastion

: 80 seems really towny to me- offering up suggestions to shaddowez, offering thoughts on the situation, and although I disagree with the argument he presented me with, he is obviously trying so I respect that. I like his attempt to unify town in 81, by having people offer up timezones and typical times online. 110 makes his argument against me more understandable and justified, which seems pretty towny to me. Good reasoning in 143, even if I don't agree with it. Overall, good posts and good reasoning makes a town player imo.

Superbowl9

: I like the opinion in 40, discussion questions in 53, and in a lot of posts (84, 141, 144, etc etc) offers clarification, more discussion and questions, and insights to other's actions / responses, so I must say that Superbowl9 is town.

Shaddowez

is conftown, so no need to put him here

RESPONSES TO PEOPLE:

@NJAC

139: Well, his posts continued getting worse imo so I included the newer posts. Also, it's the strongest case I could make so early in the game, and it's more so that I had a strong read on him.

@Sora

: Assuming you mean 24, it sounded to me that Vedith was fishing for information that, as town, he wouldn't need imo. So, it seemed scummy to me.

@Superbowl9

: He's my only strongly scum read.



Usually, I have questions for people, but after making this post I'm burnt out and so question time will come later.

[kyndy101]

Vedith: See previous post on Vedith, however recent posts seem townier- possibly just do to increased effort to appear towny.

I actually haven't done anything. What's townier about them?
Asking the mod to prod at people to join the game?

142 and 148 are what I was looking at. They seem to be aimed more for town's benefit.

[kyndy101]

I'm making a post, but also have to work so I'll post later

[kyndy101]

HAHAHA IT'S HERE I FINALLY FINISHED IT

142 and 148 are what I was looking at. They seem to be aimed more for town's benefit.

Okay, 142 could be seen as town (We did it, Reddit!), but explain 148.
That's most of a pointless comment from myself because it has no meaning, what's town about it?

I think it is pretty town because it is offering more information / a different perspective for town, sooo

Spoiler: Le long post to be responded to:

NJAC: Starts off the game with an attempt to control the situation and lead the discussion with a question that imo didn't seem very relevant.

I wasn't trying to control the situation as you said. I was simply curious about the possible choices that a scumpair would discuss.

Also, very hypocritical from your part to call it irrelevant when you also commented on it and offered a reason of why I would want to bring that question.

Do you think that what had been written until my input on page 1 was more relevant?

Sheeping shaddowez b/c he's an IC isn't enough reason to vote someone

Why not? I voted Sora at the top of page 3 when we were just leaving RVS. If a random vote was enough reason for a vote, why sheeping the IC wouldn't be?

and 72 isn't much better.

In which way it isn't better? I just gave my reasons for the vote on Sora, there was not much to add. And why do you bring this now? Just for the sake of making an argument? If you had an issue with it why didn't you say anything at that moment?

73 is trying to seem relevant while trying to seem relevant while just digging up the grave of a discussion that died long ago in my mind

Please explain what do you mean by "trying to seem relevant". As I said I was simply curious, this is also explained because I was given the role of traitor before the reroll, so I had some time to think about the choices that my scumpartners had to face.

Because of his immediate attempt at controlling the situation early on and continually bringing up points that are dead, I have to say null-scum.

Now you are trying hard to make me look bad: "Continually bringing up points that are dead" . I went a little deeper in a point that wasn't dead at all in my mind. Which other "dead point" have I brought up? And again where am I trying to control the situation?

His recent post, 159, seems to redirect focus from NJAC voting Sora to why Shaddowez was thinking about it, and in 160 it seems like he's trying to make himself relevant after being accused of flying under the radar.

Please stop this silly tunnel and reread those posts, because you don't seem to understand them.

It's not exactly a tunnel if you do the same treatment for all other people. (I will admit, however, Vedith is kinda a tunnel for me so I was glad forsaking a reads lost as that had me look at other people)
Answering Qs in order:
1. No, I don't think what you had written previously was more relevant to the situation, but looking back on it, Vedith was right with it not helping very much, as it should technically be looked at as a different game and so it wasn't very relevant to this game.

2. RVS votes are just for pressure / information / fun, really. Your vote on Sora wasn't an RVS, and looked serious, and still is serious, so it is kinda more of a big deal than RVS and thus shouldn't be compared to RVS imo. Therefore, sheeping someone just because they are conftown isn't the best reasoning for voting someone who had just one post prior isn't ok to me.

3. Firstly, I usually look at things in retrospect to comment on them, hence this post being 2 pages ahead of the post I am responding to. 72 isn't much better than sheeping the IC / not giving reasoning better than sheeping the IC.

4. I mean "trying to seem relevant" (btw there is a typo in my original post I meant to say "trying to stay relevant while just digging up [etc etc]) by making yourself seem useful / important and thus townie by adding something to the discussion, however I consider that discussion you brought up dead. Also, again, the reroll should probably be regarded as a different game at this point.

5. As I stated, you attempt to control the situation in your first few posts by directing the conversation towards the pre-reroll decisions. Also, I misspoke, I was only trying to say that you brought up a dead point again.

Spoiler: Just wanted to say thanks for clearing this up

@57: Completely agreed that Vedith didn't see that the IC was confirmed by the mod and was playing otherwise.

Okay this has been going on for a while now and I think it's about time i put in my 2 cents.

I think the main problem here is in semantics (more specifically the word "look"), so I'm going to edit some language in posts here, signified by

this blue

.
It all starts with this post:

@shaddowez - Pretty sure he could've just missed lilith saying you were town

It's definitely possible, but don't you think scum would look for

a modpost to tell them that there is

an IC in a game where it's a known possible role?

Then kyndy misinterprets what shaddow means by that "look":

@shaddowez - Pretty sure he could've just missed lilith saying you were town

It's definitely possible, but don't you think scum would look for an IC in a game where it's a known possible role?

But IC are conftown by mod at the beginning of the game, so why would scum need to look for them XD

kyndy's "look" here means to hunt for by playing the game, much like the mafia would "look" for a traitor in this setup were they to choose to not recruit.

THAT misunderstanding leads to THIS misunderstanding:

But IC are conftown by mod at the beginning of the game, so why would scum need to look for them XD

Because voting an IC can draw negative attention which scum don't want.

Here Vedith interpreted kyndy's post as:

But IC are conftown by mod at the beginning of the game, so why would scum need to look for

them

the modpost telling them that there is an IC

XD

and responded sensibly (under that interpretation)

This whole thing then gets pretty much dropped until kyndy's 137 (the long vedith one)

But IC are conftown by mod at the beginning of the game, so why would scum need to look for them XD

Because voting an IC can draw negative attention which scum don't want.

But they don't have to worry about voting an IC anyways because the mod already conftowned them.

Because voting an IC can draw negative attention which scum don't want.

Plus, at this stage, only scum know how many roles there are for town.
Finding out that IC is one gives them a lot of information.

But they wouldn't need to vote the IC to know the IC is one because the IC is conftowned by the mod at the beginning of the game! This argument is so elementary, I don't understand why this was even offered up.

Here kyndy seemingly forgets what her interpretation of "look" was in 54 (probably because it was a really long time ago) and, as a result, quite humorously ends up completely agreeing with vedith's argument.

That brings us to sora's response to kyndy's post:

@57: Completely agreed that Vedith didn't see that the IC was confirmed by the mod and was playing otherwise.

We are in deep here folks. Sora interprets Vedith's 57/58 to be vedith using kyndy's definition of "look" (when he was actually using the shaddow definition of look), which makes vedith's post look as though he never even saw the IC modpost in the first place (which, in actuality, is not the case{see 23}).

/rabbithole

Spoiler: As for the rest of the post...

ONTO THE ACTUAL IMPORTANT STUFF

This segues on nicely into why I really don't like Vedith's recent postings. After he goes off on how I'm wrong on kyndy (which is fair enough, argument is always good), what seems to surprise me is that he doesn't go after anyone else.

I like this. Vedith's game seems to have been, as Sora states, focusing on one person at a time. This is reinforced by 23's "who's next" (as if he's going through a person by person checklist) and several other similar townlist posts (55, 115). His ISO also has a distinct lack of looking at a large amount of people in the same post (think the long sora/kyndy posts/reads lists) which suggests a "reactionary" type of play, as I believe Sora put it.

Combine this with the general lack of detail in his posts (51, 119) and it gives me the feeling that he's flying under the radar despite having the second highest post count. Someone who's that impressionable and makes empty statements (119 is again a prime example) is not someone I want to have around as town.

If you want me to give more detail or elaborate on something just ask. As I said in 119, I was reading Kindy leaning town, but I didn't want to add details because she was being pushed and I wanted to see her defense instead of defend her myself. WRT the naked vote on Sora in 51 I didn't feel the need to add details, but I gave them later on request.

That's exactly my point.
The fact that you don't see any need to provide your reasoning with a post leads to things like the naked vote or unjustified reads. The problem with these types of things (and what makes them anti-town) is two-fold:

1. There's a risk that nobody will ask you for your reasoning, whether because of forgetfulness or lack of curiosity, meaning less information for town
2. You can change what you choose to say your reasoning was between the time of your post and when you're asked about it. You can really easily manipulate info in this way.

That's why your attitude is anti-town and why I want you lynched.

@superbowl:

Again WRT 154: You seem to make some arguments against Vedith, and you literally say he's your "prime scumspect", yet you vote me. This seems very silly, why exactly am I "the best lynch option"?

Also, there's already a wagon formed on Vedith. If he's your prime scumspect why don't you support that wagon instead of forming a new one.

Pretty inconsistent

I just clarified why I want you lynched, but you bring up a good point here and I should probably clarify myself. Anti-town=/=scummy. Being anti-town doesn't necessarily mean I think you're scum, it just means I think that the town is better off without you. Being scummy means you're acting like the mafia would act. You can be pro-town and scummy or anti-town and towny (although these cases are admittedly rare).

My scumread on Vedith wasn't very strong when I made my post (it's grown stronger since), so you were the better lynch option, considering I'm not town reading you and you have an anti-town attitude. Even though I was/am slightly scumreading Vedith, as Bastion pointed out he provides content for the town to work with and thus it is better to keep him around. I'm fine with lynching either of you, I just think you need to go first. I'll join Vedith's wagon if it comes to that point where I'm obviously not going to get one on you/the vedith wagon seems like its going to be the actual D1 lynch, but otherwise why would my vote not be on the person I want to lynch most?

@NJAC: Can you please give reads of some sort? I'd love to see who you consider to be the prime suspect now, if you don't mind.

Yep, I was going to give my reads after commenting on some recent posts.

A bit of patience please

.

Leaning scum: Sora, superbowl.
Null: light, kyndy, Lycan, everyone else
Leaning town: Bastian, Vedith, shadow

This is why I don't just use my vote to wagon. By placing my vote on you (combined with some other people beginning to scumread you) you provide this reaction, which I can only see as a jumpy/nervous reaction lash-out against sora, along with a naked reads list.

Take a guess as to where the people who pushed/scumread NJAC go in his reads list. Very OMGUS-like, once again indicating nervousness. Maybe if you had some reasoning as to why you're reading people this way I would be able to dismiss this initial impression, but you haven't provided me with anything to say otherwise.

@NJAC are you still nullreading kyndy?

^^ This is good; this is towny. This bundled with clearing up the other disputes, towny. I have to say that this just adds to my readslist of why you're town. Anywho, you bring up some good points about NJAC; he's definitely been anti-town regardless. I agree with the "townies can be town and still be anti-town, and scum can be pro-town".

[...]There is a difference between not being in the thread like a majority of these players and posting and reading the thread but not actually solving the game. [...]

Can you clarify please? I think I might be misreading it. Also, welcome to the game ^_^

All you guys are unreadable like crazy.


~Bee

I find it odd that you said this after posting a readslist with only 3 null

@Vedith:

Who else is in the Town-Team now?

No one else yet.
Sir Bastion makes me wonder if he is trying to buddy me. I need to see more from everyone to decide.

I wonder why NJAC was wondering, but then remember that Vedith wasn't providing anything else for a readslist.

{Sir Bastion, Raskol}
{superbowl, Lycanfire, Sora}
{light, NJAC}
{kyndy, Hebee Inc, Vedith}
Vedith traitor, kyndy and Hebee groupscum.

Game solved.

I would like to see some evidence

I don't want to pester you too much, but before you do anything else Vedith could I get a reads list please?

No, you can't
I will give you my reads when I feel ready and justified.

You can however, watch my opinions progress as the day passes.

Considering that the wagons are heating up and this post
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vedith

How does the wagons heating up and that post correlate?

Spoiler:

Something came up: I'll not be able to finish my post to a satisfactory level today and I'm already 30 mins late so

I'll post what I do have now and finish off thoughts on the rest later. For now vote stays on Vedith, but highly suspicious of NJAC.

~~~~

NJAC - mentioned before briefly, but I don't like just blindly sheeping the IC by any means at all. Here in 59, he mentions his reasoning is that it's a nice place to be: that doesn't seem to me to be solid reasoning at all and seems to be an attempt to curry favor with the IC. Followup post attempting to explain his reasoning is weak at best. There is a gigantic flip in opinion between what he says here in 119 regarding my initial thoughts on Vedith in my more general reads post (when he says 'I agree with what you said about Vedith. I'm also not a fan of his recent posts.'), where he completely sheeps what I say on Vedith, to here in 162, where he claims that I'm suddenly switching onto Vedith. I already have had reservations about Vedith, but the fact that he suddenly switches on me for something like this is odd. I get the concern, definitely, but I think? I've put more than enough effort into explaining my positions that I'm not opportunistically voting someone.

Regardless, his behaviour overall is really really wishy-washy and also smacks of someone who's getting overly flustered very quickly. Now that in itself isn't bad, but placing it in the context of Vedith's recent actions and other reactions it makes it look worse. Seeing that the pressure is on him/Vedith, he instantly casts anyone who doesn't consider them to be towny in any way/shape/form as 'scum'. Looking at his reads list, made before superbowl's longer post, he considers myself and superbowl to be the most leaning scum, while considering Vedith and Bastion to be more towny. Superbowl and I have been the most offensive on NJAC so far. Following on from this, after superbowl's 177 where he

actually calls out NJAC

, he posts a rather baffling 180, where he '(likes) superbowl's 177', despite it being a post against him. Personally, I interpret this as being a way to defuse the tension between him and superbowl so the latter wouldn't suspect him at once, but at the very least the wishy-washiness is really really jarring. I'm gonna be honest, I'm not 100% sure on this read, but at this point I'm interpreting his actions as scum flailing.

kyndy - I've already expressed my thoughts on her overreactive behaviour which you can find here. As mentioned in this post, however, I like the post she made with regards to Vedith, at least in its intent - if I'm not mistaken, someone said scum wouldn't tunnel on someone this early, and to be honest I kind of agree with that statement, though not fully. In addition, although I do think her reads are playing it super safe right now (not deviating too much from myself/superbowl's reads which are posted on the same page), I like the effort shown towards straight-up contributing to the town. I still have my reservations, so I'm gonna say null leaning scum with some confidence (as oxymoronic as that is)

Lycanfire - Reading kinda null on his first five or so posts. Both are relatively nothingish posts that imo are still fine in the early game, as nothing's set in stone yet. I don’t like how he basically hasn’t contributed at all to the game even in later posts as the game develops past even 100 or so, made clear in his RVS vote on 101 and not contributing at all to the game on 149, then being completely inactive for the last 24 hours or so. Definitely null leaning scum to me, at the very least.

Question to Lycanfire: can you provide reads, please?

(unfinished)

Superbowl - Probably town, has contributed a lot to the development of the town and provides very strong analysis overall. First person to post reads is definitely a plus in terms of kickstarting activity and moving past the RVS post. (unfinished)

~~~~

Pedit: OK, I'll respond to Vedith's 179 and 209. I'm really angry and tired, so expect this to be rambly. I won't be providing evidence/explanations yet but will hopefully do so over the course of the next day or so. Take this as a mini post on Vedith if you like.

179:

I want to know your meta before this. I haven't had the time/motivation to do so yet, but I really want to read it over the next couple of days to make my read stronger - because I don't know whether you naturally act like this or not. Basically, comparing your actions in this game with your previous town/scum actions will help my read on you be more certain.

As for why I said it was Vedith being Vedith, I think 95's a perfect example of the type of posts you make. Short, contributing something to the town and relatively non-commital. Also it's in the context of replying to kyndy, and she was confused as to what it meant - if you need me to explain this clearer I will.

209:

You're acting in a severely anti-town way. First, you continually refute the current arguments on kyndy and the like, which is fine in and of itself. However, you don't even bother to attack anyone else (your vote is still on kyndy from RVS, for goodness' sake), and you end up just distracting the town while making sure nothing's being done to further the game forward. You use straw man arguments to portray opposing people's arguments as stupid, you respond in posts that appear to contribute and be confident but are hilariously non-commital, and again don't bother pushing the game in any particular direction. I really want to hope that you're just town acting in a manner that's incredibly distracting and, if I may be a little bit blunt, kind of useless, but it makes sense to think you're scum who's deliberately trying to get you/your partners off the heat.

Your multiple posts may suggest you're active, but you're in reality saying nothing at all. You say things and don't back them up with anything other than a hand wave of things like 'The case on the random unvote is weak, and too weak for a vote on her imo. Her "defending herself" I disagree with.', which doesn't explain

WHY

you disagree at all.

In short, please actually contribute to the town by providing your reads instead of constantly refuting arguments and in general distracting the town.

~~~~

Reads List

Scum (S>W):

Vedith, NJAC, Lycanfire (a little less so), Kyndy

Null (S>T):

Hebee Inc, Raskolnikov (full null), Sir Bastion

Town (S>W):

shadow (conf), superbowl, HighHopes

Defo have confirmation bias here but w/e they're initial reads anyways.

I like your reads on NJAC, and agree with those of Lycanfire and Vedith (The latter has changed due to recent events) This is a pretty town post, to me :/

Spoiler: Le recent events

I want to know your meta before this.

As for why I said it was Vedith being Vedith, I think 95's a perfect example of the type of posts you make.

Scum found.
You want to know my meta, but you imply that you know it already from the type of posts I make.
This could be Vedith not being Vedith, but you have already decided that this is Vedith being Vedith while asking for meta on me.
And you can't say that this is wrong, because you are responding to a comment about me with saying that it's my usual play, just to ignore it (TYhis is what I get from, Vedith being Vedith).

Your reads are basically mirror with High Hopes (Who I haven't decided yet if I think scum or not)

Why did I keep my vote on Kyndy? I wanted to see what scum would use this to their advantage. In 156 he defends me voting Kyndy, in 220 he uses it for an excuse to push me as scum, but in a subtle way.

Now, second scum I feel is Light ("Oh no, you think 2 people voting you are scum?!"). The reason being 202 - This post is basically a copy of what's already in the game. What pinged me so hard about it?
"142 is townie" - After the discussion of my 142 post had already happened. I'm 100% sure that if I didn't question 146, he would have called that town. I want to know here what makes it town, I mean I know what makes it a town but, but does he? He is saying what has already been said, and making his opinion, while he actually has none.
His comment about Superbowl is basically - "Yeah, we got our mis lynch tomorrow"
I think what he did wrong here was look at me as an easier mis lynch, and automatically started to buddy anyone going this way. His town reads on people are because they find either me or NJAC as scum, and for nothing else.

I am Goon Cop btw.

Counter claim me or believe me! I have no reason to claim so early as scum, and the gambit of knowing that there is a Goon cop is too big this early with such weak pressure.

The reason I have been holding out for my main comments is because I knew scum would try and use this as an excuse, as they don't actually scum hunt.

Kyndy is town
NJAC is town
Lycanfire is town
Vedith is town
Shadow is town

That's 5 players already town.

Going to setup.
So 196 is terrible.
I've been in the setup and played enough times to know that not taking anything is bollocks, and just lucky.

These are what we have a chance of getting

Goon Cop ~ Only good if nothing is picked (hitting 2/3 scum) or if traitor is recruited only (hitting 3/3 scum)
Roleblocker ~ Not effective overall, scum can fake not killing to out the role, scum can also pick a roleblocker themselves, and lets face it, most the time you're going in blind
Tracker ~ Number 1 of the effective roles in all scenerios, regardless how many scum powers, this is 1 of 2 only good roles
Bodyguard ~ I don't rate this in the setup, the role dies, that's all
Vigilante ~ More chance than not, shoots town. The only risk with this role is finding the traiter (see below)
Innocent Child (reveal at start of day one) ~ Scum already know 1 role, great, it's a really good role for scum side.

The perfect setup to counter these are recruit scum, JOAT and Role Cop / Bulletproof (Doesn't matter as both have a benefit, I prefer Role Cop though, as if the vigilante hits you, he already knows)
The reason for this is because then the Goon cop only hits 1/3, making the role useless overall. Roleblocker just has more roles to block, doesn't have great effect early game (maybe more later game.
Tracker can be ninja OP. Other than that, Tracker will always hurt scum in the long run.
BG - Dies
Vigilante just has more PR to kill, whoop whoop
Innocent child is just destined to die, and destined to be lazy in the game as they are proven town.

Having day talk doesn't change much to a good team who can talk and organise at night. Give words starting on a post as a code etc.
Having 3 scum working together works so well, as pushing and lynching a traitor gives you no town credit at all.

Challenge me.

Also @Everyone - Stop saying you are going to do a big post, this isn't fucking school, put your hands down and just do one.

.... Buuuut, then, Vedith swoops in with a bombshell O_O I can't imagine this plot being done by scum, and I have to say this sounds more like Vedith than the previous posts, wherein I was 90% sure he was scum and terrible at hiding it and I was 10% uncertain that I remembered his play. But even if it wasn't Vedith, this is a town post to me. UNVOTE: Vedith

I'm going to reread Sora's posts and Light's posts to see if there is scum motivation, and everyone else's posts actually, and see where that leads my next vote.

Vedith, if you're not fake claiming and you scum read me I request that you investigate me tonight.

Directing where the scum read goes.
Yeah... That's town!

Message for Kyndy - SARCASM!!!

Hahaha Ok ok subtle hint taken

Because scum would NK you??

Would they?
There's no proof to my claim (Although I know there is no CC) in no way does my claim put scum at risk, even more so if they have taken roles.

Possible if they are all goons!

I just want to say that as far as 262, Sora hasn't responded yet.

Scummy..

@ HighHopes - could you elaborate your read on Kyndy please

No.
(Especially since KTS will be doing most of the driving this game.)

scum can also pick a roleblocker themselves

False: mafia roleblocker is NOT a possible role this game.
Only town roleblocker.
Check the list of roles on the front page.
Possible mafia roles are {Bulletproof, Rolecop, JOAT}, but the JOAT has a 1x-ninja and 1x-strongman; it does not include a roleblock.

Ergo, roleblockers are a town role this game and the

only

way for Vedith to be roleblocked is if a town roleblocker targets him.
Keep this in mind.

That being said:
Vedith is not a lynch for today.

(What does KTS mean)

Superbowl feels better, and I like his content. I just can't shake the gut feeling he's scum, but I don't know why he's scum. It's starting to piss me off, but I just might want him dead anyway to see for future reference just how much I can trust my gut. Sounds fun.

Sora needs a noose.

Gonna have to talk to Ranger about why Sora's town, but I can see why Superbowl might be town. Hebee is definitely scum, needs a lynch today. That should be our lynch, in fact. Uh, NJwhatever is probably town, need to talk to Ranger about that as well.

I'm going to look more into Kyndoyhasidja or whatever. Light needs to die. I want a Hebee or Light lynch today, no question. Vedith can be town, that claim is p fucking townie.

I like the fact that I can read your posts in my imagined Dave Strider voice. Aside from that, can you explain the Sora read? I haven't looked again at her posts yet, but from my last reads on her she was null-town. I'm willing to go on Vedith's hunch though.

Can we please stop doing this "x is town" "This post is scum" etc. as just naked statements
It really doesn't help the game or anyone in it if you're not gonna actually give the reasoning behind a certain conclusion.
It doesn't have to be long sora style shit but just a few words would be helpful.

Hmm

Spoiler:

@bastion has your kyndy vote/read changed from her recent interactions?

at the time you asked I was kind of on the edge of my seat wondering how she'd respond to Vedith brushing her off in this post

but there hasnt been any reaction at all which is not necessarily scummy, but she does a reads post reiterating Vedith as her scum read and doesnt add to it just pointing back to what was honestly a very underwhelming case.

Which rubs me as someone who's happy to sit on vedith (especially since his wagon was blowing up and had grown since her case) without actually pushing, it's not like between her original case and her reads post he was quiet.

So i'm still leaning scum. But Vedith has been openly vouching for her and has put himself forward very clearly with the claim (further thoughts on that later) though the fact that he's only played town Kyndy makes the vouch unreliable, he can very well be just mistaken and is dooping himself into thinking she's town because of experience, when really he has none.

So yeah I'm still leaning scum. but she's not alone anymore.


SoraAdvent really rubs me wrong, his posts are hard to read i find and I get the impression they are more like summery over actual posting and I say impression because they are genuinely difficult to follow, his post in relation to Kyndy and Vedith requires having 3 pages open so you can cross reference what he is talking about to the original post.

I think he's mostly posting his train of thought directly hence it reads like someone chattering over a cup of coffee everytime I start reading it

Add he's given two reads list within 2 pages of each other. Which again is summery over actual posting.


Which is why I'm uncomfortable, chain of thought posts like this I associate more with scum, its a lot of info crying out that they are scumhunting, Look I did not 1 but 2 Reads lists. Aint I contributing!

But really he's sitting on the Kyandy wagon and his forward movement of what resembles his case was (oddly like Kyandy) to repeat he's already presented a case and to sit pretty:

kyndy - I've already expressed my thoughts on her overreactive behaviour which you can find here. As mentioned in this post, however, I like the post she made with regards to Vedith, at least in its intent - if I'm not mistaken, someone said scum wouldn't tunnel on someone this early, and to be honest I kind of agree with that statement, though not fully. In addition, although I do think her reads are playing it super safe right now (not deviating too much from myself/superbowl's reads which are posted on the same page), I like the effort shown towards straight-up contributing to the town. I still have my reservations, so I'm gonna say null leaning scum with some confidence (as oxymoronic as that is)

His only new addition to the case is also the same point he dismisses in the same sentence.

On top of it I dont like that he's been very pushy on getting reads

which are honestly imo overrated, beyond who I think is scum you dont need to know who I think is town. If you are town it doesnt help you to know who I feel is town or not. I'll say directly to you what I think of you, and if you think I'm wrong tell me. How does it help a town player to know that we both agree that someone else is town?

It looks very towny asking for reads, but its busy body work. Like reminding everyone to wait for a claim before hammering. It looks town but doesnt mean a thing

and being pushy on it as Sora has been a few times

here

and here

is just forcing a point.

How does knowing what their reads going to affect your case on them?

So thats two players sitting pretty and one of them on the same wagon as me...

So UNVOTE: unvote

VOTE: SoraAdvent


Anyone else to set me off?

Vedith, if you're not fake claiming and you scum read me I request that you investigate me tonight.

Godamn it Light!!!

Well, this explains the scumreads on Sora pretty well. Time to go reread (JK that'll be tomorrow)

[kyndy101]

(I spoilered a hella ton of posts because I don't think anybody wants that post as long as possible


ALSO: lilith, what is up with the pagetop count XD)

[kyndy101]

Those quotes weren't supposed to be there. Sorry.

@Mod

: Those votecounts show 4 votes on Vedith, but they're actually 3.

Actually, there are 2 on Vedith now

[kyndy101]

@kydney can you summarise your scumreads in ONE post with no quotes or fluff?

Alright, first off, welcome to the game! I trust you enjoyed the walls? XD

Anyway, cut to the chase: I have no idea my scumreads rn as I just need to reread Sora's and light's and Lycan's plays, everyone here has some good arguments, but I'm not entirely certain yet :/ Also I'm pretty much slammed / extremely busy, and I might not get a post in tomorrow, but probably will. Then I have to write ~6 pages of easy before Wed, sooo long story short I'm going to try my best to be available here but I have other priorities right now that need attention so it might be a while before I am much help

[kyndy101]

I would say V/LA but I'm on the opposite of vacation lol

[kyndy101]

Vedith, stop being a princess and start playing the game instead of your drama whore shit.

Ok dear. <3

Woah woah let's all calm down
Getting a little heated here

Still need to reread Sora, sorry. 1,000 words to go on my essay due Wed, woohoo?

I don't quite like High Hopes' fragment sentences, but nothing wrong with the playstyle imo; probably town. I also kind of wish they did more than summarize with reads...?
Then again, I guess that's how reads happen XD

Let me make it clear that WE ARE NOT lynching a PR claim who feels genuine in such a scumsided setup. That fucking kind of stupidity is ridiculous, and I swear to god. Vedith looks town as all hell, and I would know. Any more votes on him makes you confirmed scum.

Unvote now.

I like this post... You could say it gives me

high hopes

of them being town ;D

@shaddow (and kinda everyone) would you be ok with an NJAC lynch today? Who would you lynch over him?

Oh boy, I'm part of kinda everyone!
Soya / Light / Hebee and anyone who's just being an opportunist!

Can I point out that in 342, Superbowl is asking for permission to have a lynch? Does that bother anyone else? It bothers me

[kyndy101]

Alright guys! Off I go to reread Sora and Light to see if I want to join either wagon. I think last time I had a reads list they were mostly null, so.. We'll see what this brings up

[kyndy101]

It's late and I have school tomorrow so I'll leave this here and see where I sit after thinking it over more tomorrow.

But of the two (light, Sora), I think Light is scummier.
NJAC is also scummy, but I think he might be town so I'm placing him as null rn

So, as for light, he's had a general lack of contribution this whole game which I don't like, and a majority of the content he provides doesn't sound like effort was put in. I like his more recent posts, but I think that those are mostly in response to the growing wagon on him. So, more of stress posting than actual posting.
In short, I guess I'll hop on that wagon for now.
VOTE: Light

[kyndy101]

(Will provide lengthy reasoning tomorrow)

[kyndy101]

((If anyone is interested, that is))

[kyndy101]

@light: you townread Sora, what is it that you like in her posts? And humour me by pointing to a specific one.

Of course. 220 - him calling out vedith on being anti-town, and actually trying to encourage him to contribute more constructively than the crap he'd put in before that post, rather than just scum reading him and leaving it at that. If Sora was scum, I simply can't see what her incentive would be in trying to stop vedith playing anti-town (as he has been doing all bloody day).

hmm I'm surprised you picked 220. I personally disliked that post overall and the vedith section is all about giving reads, to me thats an easy push for scum to play, set up a town act *hey everybody lets have some reads* push the players that dont play along *Hey XYZ why are you not giving reads! We cant continue until XYZ gives his reads!* and then turn it into a case *XYZ is scummy, they are not contributing to town and playing anti town*

Its specifically a response to Vedith refusing to give a reads list (thats what 209 was) its an overlong paragraph that honestly doesnt make sense both in terms as a response to 209 and also because it reads almost like a list of negative terms. Anti-town, straw-manning, distracting, non-commital, useless with no actual through way. And gives an almost incomprehensible reason why that could be a scum play (no seriously explain to me what "but it makes sense to think you're scum who's deliberately trying to get you/your partners off the heat." actually means?)

followed by another demand for reads.

I mean actually read it:

You're acting in a severely anti-town way. First, you continually refute the current arguments on kyndy and the like, which is fine in and of itself. However, you don't even bother to attack anyone else (your vote is still on kyndy from RVS, for goodness' sake), and you end up just distracting the town while making sure nothing's being done to further the game forward. You use straw man arguments to portray opposing people's arguments as stupid, you respond in posts that appear to contribute and be confident but are hilariously non-commital, and again don't bother pushing the game in any particular direction. I really want to hope that you're just town acting in a manner that's incredibly distracting and, if I may be a little bit blunt, kind of useless, but it makes sense to think you're scum who's deliberately trying to get you/your partners off the heat.

Your multiple posts may suggest you're active, but you're in reality saying nothing at all. You say things and don't back them up with anything other than a hand wave of things like 'The case on the random unvote is weak, and too weak for a vote on her imo. Her "defending herself" I disagree with.', which doesn't explain WHY you disagree at all.

In short, please actually contribute to the town by providing your reads instead of constantly refuting arguments and in general distracting the town.

the bit in italics is the only genuine bit of case there, the rest is hot garbage.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------MAFIA GAME THEORY TALK------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So i'm going to assume I need to actually show some people why giving out too many reads list are a bad idea and refusing to give them is not scummy


Here is an iso from the mafia thread of a scum hydra player from a game I played (poor term to describe me getting destroyed) just under a year ago named Beardedcat

He was scum in a game with daychat and he wrote over a 140 posts in the pt tracking every players reads.

post 154 sums it up best

Giving out too many reads list throughout a game can lead to this, telling everybody who you think is town and who you think is scum allows scum to get a map of the town

ESPECIALLY if a game can potentially have daychat

and that sort of play destroys town, I mean they absolutely bollocked us from here to the moon. We lost control of the vote by day 2 because scum knew which buttons to press to set player A off on player B


and we can potentially have daychat here.


Thats an extreme example, but you'll find similar processess on a smaller scale.

Oh. Well, the wagon on Sora makes sense now. I didn't think of that D: I forgot the scum could have daytalk; wow. And Sora has been pushing reads lists out of everyone..

But @Sir Bastion, why do you think Sora continued fabricating reads posts as well, even when not asking others for reads?

[kyndy101]

Is a heebee lynch actually gonna be impossible?

I don't think so; no. Heebee is actually pretty townie compared to the other wagons imo

[kyndy101]

Oh wait, I just reread. I thought you said you would vote her if needed, but now I see you'll explain your read on her when needed.

*backs off after Bastion indicates a change of reads on him*


Hm. NJAC is going back to null-scum.

[kyndy101]

I know. I'm just adding it to try to gain supporters. I just want to move light's wagon and see what happens.

*spit*

if you cant see why that was stupid I may need to revisit my read of you.

Why are you offering two warnings of changing your read on NJAC? Just do it if you're going to XD

[kyndy101]

I know. I'm just adding it to try to gain supporters. I just want to move light's wagon and see what happens.

This is what happens. I'm tracker. Cue more "opportunist" bullshit from Vedith. Didn't wanna have both investigatives outed today but heh. Claiming now so I don't come online and find myself quickhammered like in my last game.

Oh

UNVOTE: Light

Why haven't you added more in the game, if this is true? I don't like how fluffy and non-serious your posts are

And now it's time to sheep Rask.

VOTE: Hebee

More people should sheep, BTW.

Why? I honestly find sheeping scummy, so I'll just vote you, my other scumread
VOTE: NJAC

[kyndy101]

Honestly that just looks like you're attempting to misdirect attention at this time

[kyndy101]

ACH sorry guys gotta catch up it was a really stressful day today

[kyndy101]

Ok so first off: What even

Why the heck would Highhopes role block the so-claimed rolecop? I don't understand that. Why would Vedith lie and say that I was definitely not a goon when he got a no result? I suppose if he said he got no result, then we would suspect him of forging his role... Hmm

Then again, it would be handy dandy if both Highhopes and Vedith are both scum and are forging this whole thing to make a complex excuse for both being town and both PRs / unlynchable. But that would also mean a lot of risk for that sort of scum team, and although I can see Vedith pulling a risk like that, I don't find that scumteam likely.

Before I forget, welcome to the game, ironstone!

Anywho back to the nitty gritty; I believe that either High hopes or Vedith is scum, maybe both, but probably the latter. I was allowing Vedith's claim last day phase as clearing him as town (which I don't think was wrong, but I also don't think the claim should have allowed us to stop suspicion). The Vedith cases provided so far by everyone look very tempting to me; I will leave tonight with a

FoS: Vedith

[kyndy101]

Vedith

- In 222 you list Kyndy as a town read, and then don't mention her again until your D2 result. Why choose her instead of one of your scum reads?

I already said why when I said my result.

That doesn't explain why you didn't check one of your stronger scum reads instead. Your explanation also makes no sense - "I thought she was town, but I checked her to make sure she's not a goon, which doesn't mean she's town, but I think she's town". You're backpedaling, and it's not working out for you.

FOS: Vedith

.

Consider this L-1. I don't want the day to end quite yet by a derp/quickhammer, but there's no real reason to put him at L-1 since we're not exactly going to get a claim.

In case anyone's curious I'm FoSing Vedith because I agree with not wanting a derp/quick hammer like the last day

[kyndy101]

highhopes is getting lynch tomorrow

Taken out of context. I said if Verdeth flips town then highhopes is obvious scum.

HH is confirmed town regardless.
If I'm scum I was caught it
If town I confirmed the block

Why are people struggling to work this out.
HH is going bye bye tonight

Then it's just working out if Super is Vig or goon
Would he really kill Light as a big though?

I'm taking this as Vedith being the traitor and trying to help out Mafia

VOTE: Vedith

[kyndy101]

Ironstove, why should we believe you are vig / bodyguard? Have you hinted at this prior to today and I just haven't noticed?

[kyndy101]

Wait no *lycanfire

[kyndy101]

BLUH

I guess I'll try to post something more thoughtful than that in the morning XD Apparently I can't get names right tonight

[kyndy101]

Superbowl, you believe Lycan's PR claim and you're town reading him now?

No, I just don't think it's a good idea to lynch him today.

If we shouldn't lunch him, who do you propose?
If he was one of the two possible remaining town power roles, assuming we do have another, wouldn't he have used his power by now? Two nights with nothing? I don't believe that. If I were a power role, I would have used my power every night possible.

[kyndy101]

If we shouldn't lunch him, who do you propose?

I literally made a list of who I would lynch and in what order
"Would lynch hebee>kyndy>stove>lycan today (kyndy over stove because she's been lurking)."


On a no lynch
If lycan is bodyguard and protects shaddow then they either confirm lycan or narrow lynch pool by night killing someone else.
If lycan is vig and uses his shot we'd risk losing anyways so why not just lynch (if we flip a scum then lycan can shoot and confirm(would scum kill prevent him from shooting?)).
If lycan doesn't shoot then scum can just kill shaddow and we get nothing
If lycan's scum then scum just kills shaddow and we get nothing

So bascially whether we nl or not depends on which role lycan has.
Right?

Oh, sorry XD
I guess I missed it

As to the rest of your post, I guess? But why isn't Lycan claiming one or the other? The fact that he claimed a power role already got the scumteam's attention, assuming he isn't lying. But if Lycan is part of the scum team, he would know what role to take if he were to fake claim in order to not get a counter claim- unless scum doesn't know what the other role is yet.
The fact that he claimed a PR but won't tell us which really makes me doubt he is a PR at all, unless he is a scum PR.

[kyndy101]

At this point, his withholding of this information seems like cautious scum to me

[kyndy101]

Right now, I don't know who to believe... Super Bowl or ironstove

Going to do a reread

[kyndy101]

Hey guys, sorry, I thought I could get the reads post done by now.. But now it's looking like I'll have to upload it Wed because of life

Might as well comment on goings-on right now tho

because they've not been reading the game (see JOAT topic that takes up most of their first paragraph)

That's about lycan tho. Are you confusing stove and lycan?

I don't believe Bastion has replied to this yet, but I am confused on Bastion's response to the question directed at Rask.

Spoiler: Uber long post

Partial ISO cast of SuperBowl:
22 Jokes about someone being scum again and then mentions the use of just daytalk, and talks about it being better than anything else
40 This continues talking about the most optimal options for scum to pick. This is theory talking but I like the thoughts on what scum might be thinking.
Theres a few posts in here void of content.
141 Mentions a focus on NJAC and thinks they are scum but won't vote.
144 Pedantic.
154 Makes a case against NJAC, one of the things jumping out was that he calls a person flying under the radar and even notes he is one of the highest post count players.
211 At this point superbowl has only voted town, the vote especially feels weak though.
239 This post has many pro town aspects in it.
291 Not sure what to think of this post, several aspects of it and the shade thrown at Vedith claim puts me on edge as it could be used to later place a vote on him.
293 Alot of conflictions in what to make of Vedith claim, most go against it seems. Though the end story is he doesn't come to any conclusions. My thought process was that he really didn't know where to believe this claim or not, the theory of it being unconfirmable maybe been the same as if he were scum wondering if Vedith was a gambitting townie. So everything else could be the same. Most aspects is not HOW he claimed, but what he claimed in relation to it.
387 This sounds like a genuinely frustrated post, and the frustration at it seems like it would be more townlike than scumlike.
399 Trying to get a final wagon going, the attitude I can see being more town than scum.

There is a huge shift in the later days, with first being the over defensive actions of him in previous days.
This is worrying for a few reasons. 1) He claims this was scummy kind of action (being defensive) with Vedith early in the game. Or at least hinted that defensiveness in contexts is scummy. 2) His approach to lynching order doesn't match what he says. For one he says the lynching order is "hebee>kyndy>stove>lycan". I couldn't find any serious thoughts on either my slot for kyndy in his iso, and much focused on Lycan and to a lesser extend stove.

So this being the lynch order seems strange, when you consider where we are in the game stage.


So early posts in the game I thought were very townlike from him. The latest I have trouble seeing his motivation beyond simply protecting himself from a lynch. Survivalism isn't a sole scum tell, but I think Superbowl feels pressure on him and is acting in ways that don't really match the motivation he was showing earlier.

Lots of good points in here; def town vibe from this post

No. The difference between me and NJAC is that NJAC scumread people for no reason other than the fact that they were scumreading him, whereas I have been scumreading you long before you started scumreading me. This is not to say that you can't start scumreading someone right after they start scumreading you, you just have to have a reason other than "I don't like that they're scumreading me".

If by "survival mindset" you mean more defensive, then yeah, I have been playing more defensive recently because people have started to make cases on me recently. Are you saying that as town in mylo I shouldn't try to keep myself alive?

Not getting lynched is one thing. Its entirely different when you seem bent on a lynch other than yourself without actually seeming like you are trying to find scum alternate to yourself.

I like this post too
Super Bowl, I also want to know (referring to iron's 760 and 761

[kyndy101]

Genji seems p towny to me pre-ISO, but Super Bowl needs more pressure methinks

VOTE: superbowl

(Placeholder vote until I build my case: subject to change )

[kyndy101]

I get the feeling there is a lot of people holding their breaths at the moment.

@Everyone except Superbowl, Genji, Raskolnikov and shadowez

post in game, I want to confirm you've all been to this thread, hell Kyndy I'll take another useless promise post from you right now. I just want to confirm everyone is somewhere around within (expired on 2016-08-30 18:02:06) of now.


And if we all are and the game is still going

well we will have ourselves something to actually work with in terms of pulling this game back from the brink of disaster.

Why the time limit?

[kyndy101]

*A wild Kyndy appears!*

VOTE: No Lynch

This is best option right now.

so you're in favour of ending the the day a week early?

Why?

Didn't you just say (Bastion) that no lynching was the best option? I think it is very acceptable that Genji believed that you meant a no lunch /now/

Also UNVOTE: for now
I need to get stuff together; so sorry guys

Spoiler: Long post

Shadow. My reasoning was that I didn't have proof for either Vedith or Light.

Damn it...

And I had such a good feeling about you.


I dont get dismissing both prs.

I mean firstly I dont get why you didnt protect Light, even if you didnt believe his claim you should have still protected him, he claimed the most powerful role in the game

Vedith even said as much when he claimed here

If he was scum and you both survived night 1 then you'd have a genuine case to push him on.

If he was town and you died, you still saved the most powerful pr in the game.

I dont get why you didnt apply that logic

*But*

I did believe you made this mistake, based on how you softclaimed and crumbed out the mistake, I believed you made the choice of not protecting Light because you didnt believe his claim and you showed that in your day 1 posts, you were scumreading light for most of the day but you showed you had some confidence in Vedith. You put him in your town reads, you showed no issue with his posts and you even approved of his posts at one point.

So why opt to protect Shaddowez over Vedith?

Both in terms of post content (no offencer Shaddowez) and his pr ability Vedith was the better choice.

If Light was lying like i thought you believed, vedith would have been the obvious target for scum. Both a pr that could potential catch one or more of them and a very active day player.


So putting him and light on the same level as simply not having *proof*

That feels off, wrong. almost neutered. As if their actions and even their claimed roles were irrelevant


Pity I was really sure of you from earlier.


Also on a side note your JOAT reasoning is flawed.

It makes a critical assumption of the scum team that none of us can possible know

That they still have their

One shot

ability

For that to happen scum would have needed to know that you were the bodyguard before the end of day 1 and that you wouldnt have protected Light. Very unlikely but lets pretend that was possible.

Then even knowing all that on night 2 they would have had to know that you were going to flake completely from the game for the night. That's pretty impossible unless you announced somewhere else in the forum that you were not going to be around in any form on the forum.



So there is a lot of ground to argue that scum have already used their roleblocker bypass JOAT ability, especially after day 2's theatrics where HH showed himself to be a bit of a wildcard with his choices, he might have picked his highest town read or randomly on night 2 and the joat ability guaranteed that scum could kill him, I cant see them not using it to ensure HH was out.

So No lynch is still an option if there is a genuine concern over your position, it wasnt for me, but now I'm slightly disappointed in your reasoning for night 1 actions. If you cant convince me that there is a genuine thought process behind those actions it may be better that we no lynch and pick things up.

So, Bastion, are you saying that you don't believe Genji's claim unless Genji states a more logical train of thought for what happened night 1 and 2? Cause sometimes, people make mistakes in my view. I don't know, you also kinda contradicted yourself in the middle with saying you believe people can make mistakes but also that he needs to more logically explain himself?

VOTE: No Lynch

This is best option right now.

Can you explain this please?

Hi everyone VOTE: Genji

Hi NM! Long time no see ;P
I am quite ashamed of iron's behavior; mafiascum players just shouldn't play like that, and I skimmed over most of those posts because they were just angry fluff. I don't know why he was wriggling so much though.

There is about 4 people softing Kyndy into their supposed scum team, but each one isn't pushing for that lynch.
I highly think they are scum being soft bussed by a few people here. Considering the slot is mostly been absent from this game day.

This is a valid point; if you feel someone is scum, why not just vote them / build a case and vote?

[kyndy101]

kyndy,

do you still want a superbowl lynch today? from your pov, you townread genji

and he's counterclaimed me

. shouldn't i be your lynch?

I clearly missed something here?

Seconding this....

Whaaaat I guess me too?

But if Super Bowl is right, in his latest post I mean, haha, very funny Genji. Bluh XD

Anywho, I don't know right now, I still need to ISO to be sure. But so far I am slightly being swayed by everyone's cases against Genji

[kyndy101]

Assumptions to be made at this point:
at most only 1 person on my wagon can be town, because I haven't been hammered by scum.

That means either:
A) 3 people are scum on my wagon (unlikely)
B) 2 are scum and 1 is town.

My thoughts right now are that superbowl and lycan are unaligned. Which is from their interactions alone. I might be wrong on this, since I haven't seen much interactions lately, but its a gut feeling I get from reading posts.

That leaves if I take out those two being a scum in this position:
Superbowl/Rask/???
Lycan/Rask/???

So, we should theoretically be voting to lynch Rask, but I think Lycan/Rask is also the match.

This is from your POV right? Cause this doesn't work if you're the scum.
Also you really don't seem like you're feeling any pressure to get yourself out of this lynch; this reads as "here's some WIFOM to play with for tomorrow".
Beating a dead horse at this point tho.

This is true; I feel like at this time we've gotten most information out of today that we can get, I reread Genji's ISO and completely agree with all the cases on him, at this point I was going to wait for the last rl day for myself to join the wagon just to see if any other information has popped up, but at this point
VOTE: Genji

[kyndy101]

Also I couldn't help but notice Genji didn't consider Super Bowl / Lycan / ??? Scum, nor did he consider that a third option of one scum and two town on his wagon. I do feel like the first scenario is more likely, with him not having been hammered yet.

[kyndy101]

and not to be a dick

...?

[kyndy101]

I agree, please publicize the Mafia thread

[kyndy101]

I was surprised that no one batted an eye at my original partner's replacement, honestly

[kyndy101]

Also I gotta say, this game was fun! Sorry I was lurking there for a while, school picked up fast :/ I probably won't enter another game until winter at this rate XD Thanks for dealing with me everyone! Reflecting on it, I don't understand why I took BP; at least town didn't suspect it tho, eh? XD also, the flavoring was epic ^_^ And I can't believe I wasn't lynches this game, but I'm so used to being suspected that I think I handled it ok-ish. I can't believe everyone was scum reading me but I had no votes on me for a majority of the game XD

[kyndy101]

I'm also surprised I got a grand total of 1 prod this whole game! I was legit worried for my inactivity