Micro 635 - 09:12 (Game Over)

[GuiltyLion]

1) Days will have a deadline of (2) two weeks. Deadline extensions will be granted only in extreme circumstances, and will never exceed one (1) week of the total length of the day phase. Because of the Upcoming Holidays three additional days will be added to the timer for day one. This means the Day one deadline will be seventeen days to allocate for: New Year's Eve and New Years Day. Any other extensions because of holidays will be announced in public thread.

2017 is coming early this year lads!

VOTE: 0x40

Hi Accountant
I was also scum the last time I played with Mav, but hopefully in

time

(pun intended) you all will see my town alignment in this one

[GuiltyLion]

I have feelings about eager's last post, but I'm not sure what they are.

Why did you post this

[GuiltyLion]

ASP what's your read on Umlaut? I'm confused as to why you seem to have valid reasons for finding Umlaut's play to be illogical and senseless, but then vote on Snake instead for a reason that reads to me like you invented it yourself.

I don't see the evidence here that "he's making up a reason for his RVS". He didn't explain himself fully, but the reasoning itself may be there.

EagerSnake what is the tell you were referring to?

[GuiltyLion]

Basically it has to do with how scum doesn't know how different town groups feel about what is scummy at the beginning of a game so they like to keep their options open and ask questions about what others think is scummy. Maybe play both sides of a discussion, ask things like "who is scum" "what do you think about X" which is basically asking "am I a suspect" or "did I do anything suspicious"

I'm not really following how ASP was doing that in 12.

[GuiltyLion]

No, I don't really see anyone that fits that script. Now I am going to wait to see ASP's response to you elaborating this point.

[GuiltyLion]

This ASP wagon definitely feels too easy, especially with a couple people saying things like "I would vote him but don't want to L-1 yet".

I don't like how 0x40 does a drive by with a mostly useless question and doesn't comment or push on anything else. My vote is now serious.

[GuiltyLion]

Lion, I feel you about the speed of the ASP wagon, but maybe the points against ASP are just that good (by page 3 standards).

I agree that the points are good and I'm not particularly scumreading anyone who has voted the wagon. However there's no rush here and I'd like to push around some other areas for completeness

Also ASP has been mislynched in a few games I've played with him before, once on D1, so I personally have seen precedent for him as town making himself an easy target.

[GuiltyLion]

@Umlaut - sure, here's the two I had in mind

Micro 533 - the game where he was the D1 mislynch

Micro 559 - so I actually

misremembered

this one (but linking it anyway since it's a game that I was thinking of), we actually didn't wind up lynching ASP but he was still at L-1 on D2 and very nearly lynched (instead Kaboose hammered a different townie). I was pretty convinced he was scum at the time.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm not advocating dropping the wagon or making a case for ASP being town.

I'm trying to do things that will be useful later in case he does flip town. Also I find 0x40 scummy setting aside anything ASP related.

[GuiltyLion]

GuiltyLion: If we agreed to drop the wagon on ASP, then I would be voting only those who were on his wagon(as weird as that sounds, seeing as I'm on it). That's because the only argument put forth so far for dropping the ASP wagon revolves around how easy he is to mislynch as town and how fast his wagon moved. Keeping those points in mind, if I accepted that ASP is town and shouldn't be lynched, then I would definitely think there's at least one mafia on his wagon.

also thinking more, I'm not really sure what the point of this post is. You're talking about what you would do in a hypothetical world that doesn't currently exist.

If ASP is town, you've written yourself a script to start pushing on people (possibly townies) who were on his wagon. If ASP is scum, why would we care about this reasoning?

I feel like I could see the town function of this post if it was made on D2 after a town!ASP flip, but writing it out at this stage feels pre-emptive. Are you trying to shape the way I read the game or something?

[GuiltyLion]

I didn't intend to push people off the ASP wagon, I was more just vocalizing my current thought on it when I said it feels "too easy". I'm surprised my comment has drawn this much attention.

[GuiltyLion]

Well it seems like the tone of the game is shifting from "let's wagon ASP" to "ASP is scum".

I am fine with operating under the former, but responses to my original post seem to be operating under the latter. I'm not saying don't vote ASP or that scum is pushing ASP, but let's not just give everyone else a pass this early into the game.

[GuiltyLion]

Last thought for now, Guilty, please don't defend me. Meta doesn't mean a thing.

So what's your read on me?

The way this is written it's like you're chastising me but not thinking that I'm scummy for doing it. Like why are you trying to convince me that my prior experience with you being mislynched is not relevant?

I'm posting things for me, not for you. But even if I were hard defending you, there would still be no reason to tell me to stop. It'd be one thing if you just said to everyone that you thought it was scummy, but you're talking directly to me which implies that you believe I'm posting in good faith.

[GuiltyLion]

0x40 what are your thoughts on ASP

Or anything that's happening

[GuiltyLion]

His activity level in this game is significantly lower than usual for him based on a skim of his posting history

I have 2 other games on this site, both of which I replaced into in the early/mid d1, when stuff were already happening. I haven't said as much in this game because there's not as much going on at this point in the game.

Did you uh miss the part where ASP got L-1ed on like page 3

Okay, let me put it this way. ASP is at L-1 on page 3.

That means within 75 posts, nearly half the game wants to see his head roll. I think that's definitely something very interesting going on. Why don't you think it's important, given that we're one vote away from straight up ending the day?

Everyone is talking about how ASP's wagon has shittons of uncontested support but people won't even L-1 him. How is that uncontested support?

This inconsistency is a little weird, Accountant what did you mean when you said people won't L-1 him?

[GuiltyLion]

gahhh Umlaut don't jump in when I am asking someone something, you can always weigh in AFTER Accountant answers

[GuiltyLion]

yes but I always have reasons for posting the things that I post.

If I thought it was a "serious inconsistency" I would have made that clear. Instead I explicitly said it was "a little weird", and while I don't think he was scummy for jumping in, the side effect is it blocks my ability to interface with other players and develop my reads.

It's a huge pet peeve of mine, frankly

[GuiltyLion]

To clarify: "too easy" is okay as an argument against lynching someone

right now

(because we need more discussion), but not as an argument against lynching them

that day

.

This is a good way of concisely expressing what I was trying to say earlier.

As it stands, I have no idea who 0x40 and Mav are scumreading. Lycanfire also seems to be coasting. And if ASP is town it'd definitely benefit the game for him to be more involved as well.

If you all are that convinced that ASP is scum already then try to find his partner. I don't have a solid stance on ASP but that's mostly because it's early and he hasn't done much at all, and there's several other players that haven't rung town to me yet either.

[GuiltyLion]

Well I guess if I wanted to, I could make the argument that a wagon formed based on 2-3ish posts from a player is about as close as possible to a random wagon, and random wagons are probabilistically more likely to be on town than on scum. If you believe that the odds of the town to wagon correctly on scum increase as the players post more, then you could argue it takes longer to assemble a wagon that's more likely to be on scum.

Not that I was thinking about this several days ago, I'm just exploring the idea.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm on the same wavelength as Umlaut. I'd probably swap BTD6 and Lycanfire but that's about it.

[GuiltyLion]

I don't think Vedith is being anti-town in asking for the cases on ASP or 0x40 and I'm not sure why I'm seeing that notion being repeated.

In fact, I'd say this is a fairly town opening from Vedith.

My vote is on 0x40 because he asked a few useless questions, has not been actively involved in trying to sort players, and gave a somewhat inexplicable scumread on Umlaut while not committing to a read on ASP or his wagon. While I don't think avoiding a hard read is inherently scummy, he hasn't done any substantial prodding or pushing to develop his reads, which makes me think he's not trying to game solve.

[GuiltyLion]

also Vedith good to see you again, it's been a while!

[GuiltyLion]

Only the middle post reads anti-town to me, and even that is up for debate as sometimes it's better to hide your reads from scum to keep them in the dark about who is mislynchable and who is not

Vedith is a jokester but he does do things that create helpful content

[GuiltyLion]

Scumlean

I initially read him as idiot/ego town but I think it's very likely a persona or smokescreen

What makes you think it's faked? What posts of Vedith's explicitly changed your read in the way you described here?

[GuiltyLion]

I don't want to lynch Vedith and I also don't think Vedith flipping town would confirm ASP as town

[GuiltyLion]

I don't see any scum motivation for Vedith to enter the thread like he did unless both 0x40 and ASP are town

If one of them were his partner he could easily just push on the other one

[GuiltyLion]

Also, Accountant will only be voting me here because I am challenging.
The scum lean read is just to justify the move over.

No, I'm voting you because of snake's point about you

, which came after the scumlean post

Was this referring to this post:

I feel like if I lynch Vedith then a few things come out of it if he's scum:
1) We lynched a scum
2) Accountant is conftown by association to Vedith!scum
3) Guarantee that either ASP or 0x40 is scum by association to Vedith!scum therefore we win the game

And a few things come out if he's town:
1) Lose a townie
2) Accountant is probscum
3) ASP is conftown by Vediths foolproof metaread and by association to accountant!scum
4) 0x40 is conftown by association to accountant!scum
5) other scum is in: BTD, Umlaut, GL, Lycan

I'm very curious if ASP has the same foolproof metaread on Vedith as Vedith claims on ASP

And also if ASP backs up the claim that Vedith can read him like a book, and has never been wrong about his alignment (unless it furthered his wincon)

?

[GuiltyLion]

GL scumreads 0x40 but townreads Vedith. I feel like his posts have been too diplomatic (#47-i disagree. #69. #75 "i don't like this but keep doing it". #82 "i'm incredibly worried about an ASP town flip but rather than push a scum/town read i will remind everyone that my vote is on 0x40". #85 PLEASE KEEP WAGONING ASP. I'LL BE OVER HERE WITH MY VOTE ON 0X40. #87 "... but you're all scum for doing it") and he never really tries to push his reads. A lot like btd6 except his helpful posts are actually helpful. #113 is a good example of "i'm scumhunting because i'm pressuring someone i know isn't going to post". #119 "gahhh don't ruin my associatives with accountant"? #233 "my vote is still my vote because my vote is my vote". #277 he entertains the thought of lynching someone he doesn't think is scum to confirm a town read of one of his townreads? Sounds like he's just being here to offer commentary. Later he says that he can't understand Vedith's behavior unless the people he's chainsawed for are "both town" (#292). That's fair enough but he's never taken off his RVS vote (which became "serious" #69). I've been getting the impression since game start that he's too diplomatic and refusal to push his reads or re-place his vote is pretty much proof of that. It's difficult to pin him to Accountant with associatives, in fact post #83 is aimed at accountant and is one of two good posts (other being 292-but 292 is questionable in context-see above), but both are experienced players and what he has been doing is keeping his options open in order to offer an alt lynch.

This is an incredible amount of misreps in one post, to the point where your motivation for painting me as scum looks contrived.

First, there's this point of "never trying to push my reads". What do you expect me to do when my original scumread is not playing the game? Am I supposed to drop my vote because they've lurked it out? Am I supposed to pressure my townreads just for the sake of doing something?

Now let's look at your repeated sequence of misreps:

This is the post you said was "i'm scumhunting because i'm pressuring someone i know isn't going to post"

0x40 what are your thoughts on ASP

Or anything that's happening

a) how would I know he isn't going to post - like literally, how would a scum!GL know that?
b) I'm quite clearly trying to get him to play the game, there's no additional level of this post of assigning a read. I also immediately followed this post with a question aimed at Accountant, so it's not like I'm only posting this and doing nothing else.

#233 "my vote is still my vote because my vote is my vote"

I don't think Vedith is being anti-town in asking for the cases on ASP or 0x40 and I'm not sure why I'm seeing that notion being repeated.

In fact, I'd say this is a fairly town opening from Vedith.

My vote is on 0x40 because he asked a few useless questions, has not been actively involved in trying to sort players, and gave a somewhat inexplicable scumread on Umlaut while not committing to a read on ASP or his wagon. While I don't think avoiding a hard read is inherently scummy, he hasn't done any substantial prodding or pushing to develop his reads, which makes me think he's not trying to game solve.

So you ignore literally everything I explain about my reasons for voting, and reduce it to some absurd strawman that makes no sense and is designed to make it look like I didn't contribute.

#277 he entertains the thought of lynching someone he doesn't think is scum to confirm a town read of one of his townreads? Sounds like he's just being here to offer commentary.

I don't want to lynch Vedith and I also don't think Vedith flipping town would confirm ASP as town

Actually, I do

the exact OPPOSITE

of what you're implying. There was talk of lynching Vedith to "confirm ASP as town" and I explicitly state that I'm against that. The fact that you say I'm "entertaining the thought" is lynch-worthy levels of misrep.

It's difficult to pin him to Accountant with associatives, in fact post #83 is aimed at accountant and is one of two good posts (other being 292-but 292 is questionable in context-see above), but both are experienced players and what he has been doing is keeping his options open in order to offer an alt lynch.

Then here you're just acknowledging that your case is shit and hedging against the fact that your reads don't make sense together.

VOTE: Lycanfire
you can die now

[GuiltyLion]

@DarkLightA

- I find it odd that you picked something relatively trivial to focus on as your first offering of content. What did your line of questioning tell you about BTD6's alignment, how did that help you read him?

[GuiltyLion]

we still have 4 days. At the moment I'd do DarkLight or Lycanfire, strongly oppose a Vedith lynch

[GuiltyLion]

Lycanfire's post is textbook "push for the new mislynch (Accountant) while offering slightly-against-the-grain reads to look townie". He's scum. Ask yourself why he bothered to put you as a scumlean, and why he believes in Vedith as obvtown with an ASP towntell, yet lists ASP as null.

[GuiltyLion]

From seemingly nothing (correct me if I'm wrong) he picks up on LycanFire after his post criticising him. Notably, Lycan also comments on everyone else, but Guilty seems to have no interest in that—even though he doesn't even vote for Guilty. That's a scumtell if I ever saw one.

what do you think about my actual response pointing out his misreps? This is bullshit reasoning - you're ignoring the content of what I'm talking about and scumreading me for a surface-level reason. If I see someone makes misreps that are nearly impossible to imagine coming from a town perspective, you're damn right I have no interest in whatever else they have to say.

Also, I had a pocket scumread on Lycanfire for a while - see my post 128 and 172.

And you ignored my question. Respond to 338

[GuiltyLion]

EBWOP - Sorry, not 338, 333

[GuiltyLion]

STILL haven't answered my question

You "find it interesting" that my posts show I was not at all ever townreading Lycan? Please proceed, DarkLight.

[GuiltyLion]

also just in general the notion that I didn't read the rest of Lycanfire's post and didn't have problems with it is stupid, because I make two more points against his reasoning about other players in 338

[GuiltyLion]

a)the second part of the post makes it obvious that you're poking at someone you know is already inactive
b)you said your vote was serious in post #69, 44 posts prior to this post. you have a read on 0x40 and it's shit.

a) this isn't an answer to my question. I knew he was inactive. You said I knew he wouldn't post. How did I "know" he would not follow-up to my callout with a post and more activity? Considering it was only 100 posts into the game.
b) I don't think the read is shit at all, and I don't follow how you're convinced that it's not. What do you think about my points against DarkLight? Do you find his posting townie?

You and DarkLight both seem very interested in chainsawing for each other.

it's entirely true and you didn't contribute. you aren't calling for votes on 0x40 or for his inevitable replacement (which you know is going to happen with a post like #113) to hang. you're basically announcing where your vote is.

if you were town like me you would have voted him every page to remind everyone

this is... just the worst argument, especially the bolded.

Ah, shit you caught me. There's no way someone could have misread that at 1am.

-builds case on the basis of a misread
-doesn't re-evaluate read when presented with evidence that he misread, instead replies with sarcasm.

You're more interested in tallying points about why I'm scum than you are determining my alignment.

i was admitting to being thorough with my analysis there's nothing wrong with that. if we lynched accountant today and they flipped scum, and i was NKed night 1 how would you feel like vedith deathtunneled town!GL as a result of my post? seems like you're worried about being pinned to accountant for some reason.

I don't think the Accountant slot will flip scum. If it did/does, I recognize that my slot would be an objectively good target for lynch from a neutral perspective. I'd fight my lynch and use that to try to find the other scum regardless.

[GuiltyLion]

ASP only had one post that I could read. I read it was weakly scum, voted him, fucked around for awhile on his wagon and hoped to see interesting reactions. there weren't any that stood out beyond all the people that kept including him in their scumteams for some damn reason (like he was confscum or something-lol). I never asked him to claim despite joking about being the L-1 vote and doing a very fake hammer. really, I was bored. Vedith thinks he's town with meta justification of the same post, so I don't know how I feel about him. he's probably town but not readable for me. this is essentially the opposite of a tl;dr for what i already said.

also, this is missing the point of my criticism

Lycanfire apparently believes Vedith is town and that Vedith has a townread on Lycan's scumread (ASP), the wagon that he was pushing. He then doesn't change his ASP read substantially, instead just bumps him up to null. I don't believe that reasoning is townie.

If you think Vedith is honest and accurate with his townread, then ASP is town.
If you think Vedith is honest and wrong with his townread, then ASP is scum.

You're doing neither, just kicking the can down the road for when you'll have to commit to a read on the slot. You think Vedith is town but you don't trust him to make a read on a player that is "not readable" for you, but you also then have no problem with him steering the attention firmly away from the wagon you spent most of the day on.

[GuiltyLion]

Lol, GuiltyLion can you try to act a bit more squeamish under pressure please?

This is scum. DarkLight still has not responded to my questions or points against him, he's just trying to emotionally manipulate.

[GuiltyLion]

Fair enough. A bit of a strange line to take, but I'll accept it. What follows, however is even stranger. He proceeds to pound this single point, even when I haven't done, frankly, anything related to BTD6 later:

I had a very specific, intentional reason for asking you that question and looking for a response from you. I think you found something completely NAI that no one else had commented on, and used that as your way into the game to try to appear town with your opening post. It pinged me as scummy, and I wanted to see if you could justify your question and whether you were actually using it to make reads.

You never answered this. You haven't given me a single reason as to why you asked that to BTD and why/whether you think it was an important thing to comment on

The fact that you haven't said anything about BTD6 just supports my original suspicion that you didn't have a purpose for asking him about it.

(Here he seems to have forgotten he's asked another questions in 343, that suddenly isn't worthy of my answering in relation to the first question)

Oh I haven't forgotten. What makes you think I have forgotten?

To him, the question was clearly more important than the answer, or more precisely, me not answering the question gave him the hook he needed to label me as scum, as he has done. Him forgetting about his question in post 343 is what seals the deal for me. He's so interested in my lack of response to 333 that he doesn't realize I haven't responded to 343.

What town!motivation is there in refusing to answer why you asked a question or whether it helped you develop a read on someone? You're saying I'm scummy for harping on the point, but at the same time you're pretending like it doesn't make you scummy at all for completely ignoring questions directly asked of you. Like, your argument here is "He's calling me scummy for ignoring his question, but he's scummy for not realizing that I ignored even MORE of his questions"? Is that the argument you are seriously making?

[GuiltyLion]

I'm glad you think DarkLight is scum, Lion. I do too, that's why I'm voting him. Why aren't you?

Well I wanted to also pressure Lycanfire and see where that leads

I think they look pretty viable as a team too, re:that point I made about chainsawing

But yeah I can go back here if there's no chance of Lycan today
VOTE: DarkLightA

[GuiltyLion]

I haven't read, but is there a reason that you prefer DarkLight to me or accountant?

Accountant is scum as shit.

DarkLight is pretty obvious scum, you should read my points against him and his push on me. I also endorse pretty much everything Umlaut has said since

I don't think you are scum. I'm not 100% sold on Accountostophanes being town but the way Lycanfire and DarkLight both pushed for that lynch makes him off the table for me today.

[GuiltyLion]

I want to lynch DarkLight (or Lycanfire)
I would compromise on A Simple Plan
Vedith and Accountostophanes are bad lynches and I won't go for them

[GuiltyLion]

I am here, still content with my DarkLight vote. I like how Lycanfire says my compromise "sucks", despite the fact that my compromise is a nullread for him that he throws shade at it in the very next section of his post. And if he truly believed Accountostophanes was scum then he'd have no reason to jump off the wagon and cripple the chances of lynching him today.

[GuiltyLion]

I'll be here, but the only person I want to flip more than you is Lycan. So unless a Lycan flashwagon happens I'm probably not moving my vote.

Why do you say you aren't the best person to push any kind of wagon?

[GuiltyLion]

I strongly doubt BTD6 and DarkLight are both PRs. I think DarkLight is scum that bought himself an extra day, if there's a doc/protective role then cover BTD6 instead please

I am not a PR and I'm the only wagon, but you should tell my wagon is shit, I will flip town. Lycanfire/ASP/DarkLight are my three scumreads, if anyone else gets lynched this game I'll be very unhappy.

Good luck town

[GuiltyLion]

also I'll hammer myself at deadline if Umlaut doesn't post in the next 30 minutes

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Lycanfire

[GuiltyLion]

Vedith we need a lynch today, your unvote does nothing

[GuiltyLion]

I'll go for ASP

[GuiltyLion]

I really don't think Lycanfire has contributed much at all that makes him town in this game and if DarkLight is town then he was almost assuredly white-knighting

Umlaut would you hammer Lycan instead

[GuiltyLion]

0x40 is a lazy scumread. "look at me i'm scum and have an opinion" kind of lazy scumread. in fact, if you think vedith is scum shouldn't his chainsaw of 0x40 be S+T? vedith isn't dumb contrary to what half his posts would lead to you to believe. chainsawing like this when your partner is low contribution and replacement is a possibility is a liability. if you scumread vedith, you should be townreading 0x40. umlaut and btd6 are guilty of this.

Like even this doesn't make sense because I was never scumreading Vedith

[GuiltyLion]

oh whoops I actually misread that Lycanfire post I just quoted, saw "guilty" and thought he meant me

[GuiltyLion]

EagerSnake you have the hammer

[GuiltyLion]

DarkLight, GL, Vedith, Umlaut

if DarkLight really is town (and his deadline posting has been good and if he lied about PR we'll know tomorrow) then I really like this wagon

[GuiltyLion]

yeah my eye is on ASP today, although I'll wait for the full story about DLA's night actions to come out

[GuiltyLion]

Umlaut might be scum

[GuiltyLion]

also I'm gonna trust the crumb here

[GuiltyLion]

ASP who is DLA's partner?

[GuiltyLion]

I can also provide proof. However, in doing so scum will get a good idea of the last PR. I'd rather save it until it's truly necessary.

what was the "proof" you were referring to here?

[GuiltyLion]

I've been pushing for ASP über alles since page 3 or so.

That's not the story that the VCs tell me

[GuiltyLion]

Why are you jumping so reactively on this? And what was the point of your post 658

[GuiltyLion]

I'm not gonna redig through your ISO now because I'm on mobile on the way to work but I remember you pushing 0x40 wagon much harder than ASP wagon and I wanna doublecheck why we couldn't get ASP at deadline

[GuiltyLion]

Why are you jumping so reactively on this? And what was the point of your post 658

I don't know how to answer this. You're saying I could be scum, I'm saying that doesn't make any sense.

The point of that post was that I don't understand how DarkLight could forget that ASP is claiming roleblocker when that is the central focus of the day. I actually almost unvoted because that really bothered me, but I think there's enough evidence for DLA's claim over ASP's that I'd still rather keep my vote where it is.

If it doesn't make sense then you should just ignore it. The more you're arguing this point the more it's only validating my suspicion.

I really didn't like your 658, at all. Reads like casting shade for no reason, jumping on an obvious misstep in phrasing that presumably has nothing to do with alignment. Especially since you don't apparently think it was a genuine slip, then there's no reason to make the post that you did.

I'm not gonna redig through your ISO now because I'm on mobile on the way to work but I remember you pushing 0x40 wagon much harder than ASP wagon and I wanna doublecheck why we couldn't get ASP at deadline

I wanted to get ASP at deadline and voted him pretty close to deadline, but Darklight talked me out of it.

I just looked back at my ISO and I guess I did shift to scumreading Darklight harder than ASP based on 388. So

über alles

is a misstatement, I was happy to lynch him but he didn't go back to being my top choice until after Darklight claimed.

that said, this is a decent response, I went back and I'm not sure scum-Umlaut with scum-ASP would make this post:

Let me rephrase that:

Also, we don't need people claiming townie at L-4, kthx?

(Pst, it's a reference to you umlaut!)

1. I didn't say vanilla townie, I said townie, meaning town-aligned player.
2. Even if I did say vanilla townie, I'm effectively claiming that by not counterclaiming you or DarkLight.

I don't like this post at all, it seems like just trying to Do Town Things without seriously thinking about whether what you're saying is helpful.

Pedit: Let's do it

VOTE: A Simple Plan

I would like DarkLight/eagerSnake/Aristophanes to weigh in on this.

[GuiltyLion]

Would DLA!scum counterclaiming ASP!townPR forget that he is counterclaiming ASP!townPR? I don't think so

same, but tbh Umlaut defending himself over it, especially 677, feels pretty genuine

ASP/Aristophanes?

[GuiltyLion]

#conftown

[GuiltyLion]

I'm leaning towards Aristophanes, but I will not vote today until you all vote, obviously.

While Accountant did push his buddy, he also then started badmouthing the wagon, and then jumped over to 0x40/DarkLight. As I said yesterday, Umlaut/EagerSnake both pushed for ASP at deadline, and I don't think either would do that for their scumbuddy. Meanwhile, Aristophanes is making posts like this:

I think ASP needs to get into the damn thread more! Half his posts are proddodges, and a quarter are kinda content, and the other quarter are filler about Meta and Theory talk (which he isn't even doing seriously). I mean, this could be scum, but I've mislynched him before iirc for being useless like this, so I don't think it's alignment indicative. If he's scum, he'll show that in time.

As I said, I wouldn't vote ASP today because I think he will show his alignment later on anyway, so I don't really like that one for today, but I can see how some would want to get rid of a player with his Iso.

[GuiltyLion]

not hammering, just to further my #conftown status

[GuiltyLion]

Sigh. Not loving the vagueclaim in a setup where Mafia hard-fakeclaiming is dangerous.

But I doubt you're getting lynched today, so JI'll just say I'm looking forward to seeing either that proof or your swinging body tomorrow.

VOTE: Aristophanes

I don't love this wagon but it's better than GL.

Wait, Vedith already left the Aristo wagon, so I can vote whomever I want.

VOTE: A Simple Plan

Ari I want you to convince me that scum!Umlaut would have any motivation whatsoever to do this, otherwise I'm like most definitely gonna vote you

[GuiltyLion]

As I said, I wouldn't vote ASP today because

I think he will show his alignment later on anyway

also like if I squint really hard, this feels like you knew he was rolecop already and were hoping he'd be able to pass it off like town rolecop later. Like it reads like you've already been thinking about how he can "show his alignment".

[GuiltyLion]

see I'm like 70-80% sure Aristophanes is scum but I never know what to do in this situation, if he is scum it's meaningless and almost cruel to force him to write up some big defense just to hammer him anyway.

but that said, if he's town then we're about to lose, so I do want to give him time if he's busy (since he's V/LA weekends). I'll wait until Wednesday morning at the very latest for a useful post from Ari, if there isn't one then I'll hammer. And if he keeps dodging around then I'll hammer.

[GuiltyLion]

I'd like to see Umlaut's response to this

[GuiltyLion]

I am here, but been busy/lazy and also as conftown I think it helps to be opaque for a bit.

I'll reread and rethink tonight after softball

[GuiltyLion]

really, you have no response to his post?

[GuiltyLion]

meh let's do it
VOTE: Aristophanes

if Umlaut or eagerSnake are scum then props to them for having the courage to vote their partner at deadline. I'm honestly more paranoid about eagerSnake than Umlaut at this point in time, but I doubt Umlaut will change his mind and I'm still like 90% sure it's Aristo anyway.

[GuiltyLion]

if Aristophanes is scum I sorta regret making post 730, that's a really good tell and I would probably benefit long term by keeping it pocketed

if he's town I'll look like an idiot but whatever

[GuiltyLion]

Great game everyone!

DLA sorry for misreading you D1, you did a great job of turning it around! Umlaut and eagerSnake I think you guys both made it a lot easier for me by correctly pushing ASP consistently, well done. I didn't have the best reads this game but I'm glad I got cleared so I didn't have to defend myself over my ambivalence with the ASP wagon, or have to 1v1 with Ari.

Thanks shaddowez for modding! The setup is a cool twist on the matrix idea.