STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Reasonably Rational]

There's almost certainly more than one effect at play. There's several reasons to believe so. One of them is something we asked Yume to relay to Mastin yesterday.

@Titus - You got room for us in your planned Finale alliance. We'll need to look at Shiro but umm... there's some things you are wrong about and it would be nice to be able to talk to you safely and explain why.

@Cerb - Talk to me on slack man. So much to talk about LOL.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

RR why did you not accept my alliance offer?

We got offers from A50 and farside towards the end of the day and Drixx decided we should ally with A50 instead, against my preferences basically. :/

@fb: care to answer my question?

@yume: *sigh*
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside, do you have anything else you would like to tell me?

Lol. This is NOT how you do subtle Titus. :p

@RR What?

Just irritated that my game solving is being halted..:p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Me,Titus and farside should make an alliance, it is going to be lovely.

You could kiss and make up!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

And you blocked me last night.

Nope.
I targeted grapes.

So you lied about the guilty.

Why?

Like the point system wasn't something you cared to verify first before ousting this stuff.

I am pretty damn good at algebra Farside. If I wasn't, I would have insisted on keeping math around.

If you didn't block me, why did you hide being partially ascetic?

She claims her action on Shiro failed, and she's the ascetic one?

????

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

And you blocked me last night.

Nope.
I targeted grapes.

So you lied about the guilty.

Why?

Like the point system wasn't something you cared to verify first before ousting this stuff.

I am pretty damn good at algebra Farside. If I wasn't, I would have insisted on keeping math around.

If you didn't block me, why did you hide being partially ascetic?

She claims her action on Shiro failed, and she's the ascetic one?

????

-Cerb

Perhaps I should have just told you not to interrupt me at all. You've been a major detriment (although inadvertent) regarding what I needed to do.

....

I'll be back in 48h or whatever, unless Drixx decides to deal with this, in which case I'll be back a good while from now.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hey RR, I am done now.

Thanks for hinting to Farside the guilty was on her to give her time to plan.

You hinted it yourself by asking her if she had anything else to tell you.

It was incredibly heavy handed and obvious and only a fool could have missed it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh but at least one of NC and Farside is almost certainly town, regardless of the claims by anyone else.

Agreed.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

What do you think of Farside now? We'll talk more about how to handle what I was doing post game.

I want full beach claims before I say anything on this subject.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

RR why did you not accept my alliance offer?

A50 promised that allying him would be worth it. We attempted to arrange a different alliance for you and if you had read the last part of the day during the night you would have seen that. It was my call and I'm sorry you ended up out of alliance as a result.

MOD - I'll be V/LA til Monday morning for my usual weekend family activities.

Howdy. Replaced in solely because Killthestory is a jerk and flaking on a 250 page game is a dick move.

I'm not going to be reading this whole thing. Sorry, it just likely isn't going to happen. I did start a quick skim and deduced there was a literal fuck-ton of behind the scenes stuff going on anyway that I'm not privy to so a detailed read would likely be a waste of time. Probably will look at SirCakez at least when I have time. Also we've gotten 9 to 10 pages in like 12 to 14 hours. Likely better for me to stay up-to-date than continue to lag behind.

Would lynch Firebringer for his attitude given that he is pushing on one of our apparent clears and this is scum Firebringer behavior ...

There's a whole range of pages that literally aren't worth reading. When Titus and Farside start fighting, you can sort of tune out until the end of day 2.

And you blocked me last night.

Nope.
I targeted grapes.

So you lied about the guilty.

Why?

Like the point system wasn't something you cared to verify first before ousting this stuff.

I am pretty damn good at algebra Farside. If I wasn't, I would have insisted on keeping math around.

If you didn't block me, why did you hide being partially ascetic?

She claims her action on Shiro failed, and she's the ascetic one?

????

-Cerb

Perhaps I should have just told you not to interrupt me at all. You've been a major detriment (although inadvertent) regarding what I needed to do.

Titus: Remember that advice you gave me about leading town?

Phone post -

can anyone give any insight as to why anyone not named Yume or Titus are "confirmed Town"?

Titus popped IC confirmation which was mod confirmed at day start. Yume claimed that Mastin was confirmed by mod information to be town in PT on day one. Mastin says that Yume's character cannot be anything but town.

Well why are you pushing this titus

Answer the question.

Not explaining until I have all the info.

Whatever.

I have a noisy ascetic. A player targets me and are told I stopped there action.
I also know when a player targets me, just not who.

That just put a gigantic dent in how I see you this game Farside. Let's assume you are claiming honestly: how anti-town is it that you wanted to be targeted and wanted to intentionally waste other people's role utility in order to jack yours up? And given that a huge reason why Math ate rope was the late neg utility claim (and, to be fair, the lie that it had been claimed early), I'm kind of trying to figure out why you didn't choose to out this before it inevitably got outed for you.

Hey RR, I am done now.

Thanks for hinting to Farside the guilty was on her to give her time to plan.

I'm just catching up, but it was about as subtle as a brick to the face who you were targeting. I don't think Cerb really made it any more obvious, objectively speaking.

What I'm more concerned with is how many people are reporting not having voted. Some of these people responded to the planning of the event, so we know they knew it was coming and that we wanted to use it to PoE scum ... but they then don't vote?

@Yume-

I think you need to let KC flip. If what you said to us means what I think it means ... it's better for that to impact now than later, I think.

~Drixx

P-Edit: Titus: I agree we should get all the claims. Everything I said has a purpose.

[Reasonably Rational]

In the first SU game, the larger finale alliances were all in one PT.

~Drixx

P.S. - Titus: please consider what I said about your advice to me on leading town. You're IC now so we're going to slipstream with you. We know some things you really need to know. Unless you have some really compelling need to ally elsewhere, keep that in mind. Who has the popcorn atm?

[Reasonably Rational]

@Drixx, Understood.

Do you mind allying with Shiro?

I'll go through the ISO and make sure there's nothing inconsistent or fake. I have no gut objections.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR No, not doing it.

I understand the hesitation but I don't see the long term upside. Better to get it over with, imo. It's your call but just consider what happens going into the future one way and the other. I think you'll agree it's best just to get it done with.

Dgb has popcorn.

Ascetic

I control my ally's vote for the day which sucks balls I'd rather not

Ummm... okay. It was obvious you were a vote stealer since day one. Did you really misunderstand what you were being asked to claim?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I understand the hesitation but I don't see the long term upside. Better to get it over with, imo. It's your call but just consider what happens going into the future one way and the other. I think you'll agree it's best just to get it done with.

If she says no stop badgering her on it.

Politely see your way out of the conversation. I'm fairly certain you don't know what we're talking about and thus have no reason to interject.

~Drixx

P-Edit: Okay. I think it's inevitable but your call on the timing I guess.

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR Actually, he does know about that thing, I believe.

And still not doing it.

Okay. It's your call. Surprised KTS was in the loop but whatevs. We'll make it work.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR Actually, he does know about that thing, I believe.

And still not doing it.

Okay. It's your call. Surprised KTS was in the loop but whatevs. We'll make it work.

~Drixx

Go ask yourself why and how KTS was in the loop.

Then you'll know why he is taking the position he is.

~Titus

Yeah. Already there. Certain lights turned on. It's probably less important we ally tonight except that we would prefer to work with you and some things just can't be said in this thread. Cerb's at work but I gisted him on slack and he'll respond when he's able.

I think alternately we might want to talk to Firebringer and Random.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside why did you target me?

This is a good question actually. Now that farside has disappeared hopefully it gets addressed whenever she pops back in.

OK back to V/LA for Wife's birthday dinner at a restaurant I can't stand. Yay me.

Enjoy your wife's birthday and dinner. I have been unable to stand for the past several decades, so I totally feel you on that one.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Drixx, if you're wanting to share the box of Yume secrets, there are better targets than Fire and Random.

Ummm... we wouldn't want to ally with them to info dump on them. We've been wanting to talk to Random for awhile though, AND we left him hanging. Still, I personally feel like we could get more useful done with you and a 3rd who we can both trust. I'm going to just assume that Yume told you EVERYTHING from us and I'd rather we left it at that. No sense risking it since it almost certainly doesn't matter today.

In addition to getting the numbers and doing the math, I think we need to press the low content slots into talking today. A lot. It's day three and there's an absurd amount of things to talk about. Thoughts?

~Drixx

P.S. - I disagree with you and Yume and MoI strenuously. Like I see zero upside to that and a lot of potential downside. I'm going to shut up now because it's stupid to beat a dead horse, but I want you to know that I really think some serious consideration should be given to going the other way with that, on the assumption that it is inevitable and I don't see any upside value to delay. Just please note it and the next time we can talk privately tell me whatever you would want to say now.

[Reasonably Rational]

someone should vig randommidget

Based upon...?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@Drixx, I agree with you on the last paragraph.

I have left Shiro hanging forever and would love to talk to them. Talking to you is good too, because I don't want to step on your toes.

You're IC here. We were planning to take over since Mastin has posted less and less, but you should lead, imo. If we disagree, we'll say so. Otherwise do your job as IC. Don't get dragged down into fights and don't let disagreement be personal, but otherwise take the reigns and let's kill it.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Dgb we're popcorning who we voted in the event.

Who is your ally?

TWIE

Great, so we have two low content slots staring silently at one another.

I didn't see either TWIE or you talk about an alliance at any point. How did that happen?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Then why aren't you voting her?

Why do you care?
Your lynching me regardless.
Right?
So I'm just waiting for the beach to be done, not claiming shit and seeing how things go.
And regardless of youreads feelings and push, I won't be lynched.

Before you viglynch someone, can you at least make sure all the alliances and stuff are in place? Thanks!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Titus: she said she gets points to power up her vote. Yesterday it was worth 6 or something.

You failed an action on her.

It could easily be worth +11 now.

Basically no way for us to know what her "range" is now.

Why wouldn't she shoot you if scum titus?


And about the finale: Drixx and I haven't come to terms, and fire hasn't agreed yet. I want fb/random for sorting and to resolve whatever fb is thinking about us, and he wants you+whoever else for game solving stuff.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Titus - after our earlier convo and talking to Cerb, we very much would like to ally for the finale.

@Farside - Why would we lynch you at this point? From some things you've said, it may not even be possible to do it, and now that you've revealed people can target you and power you up, you just painted a crosshairs on yourself if you are town. And for what it's worth, I was townreading you yesterday and while the late noisy ascetic claim is a little troubling, I can see why you might not claim it and try and make sure you play OTAF so people who get notified will sit back and watch before acting. You basically resolve as time goes forward, so why would you get lynched today?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Or I guess I misunderstood Cerb. He agrees that us allying would be strong. He also thinks that it would be nice to actually sort Fire for real and to get a chance to talk to Random, especially since me overriding and choosing A50 caused Random to have no alliance today. I took his agreement that allying with you was the strongest play to be consent. Sorry for dissonance; we try and keep that crap out of the thread and in our slack chat.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR, I am claimed bulletproof as long as I am allied, exactly like SirCakez was. Plus, it would ensure auto lynch when her whole goal is not to be lynched.

We can ally.

RR please stop being Farside's defense attorney. Ty.

You realize you just made me want to argue more right? I don't want to fight about this with you so I'm going to say one thing and then just bite my tongue. Please just consider the probability that Farside is being honest and the implications of that. That's all.

~Drixx

P-edit: It takes a pretty significant amount for Cerb and I to feel confident that someone is town. I will especially say nothing further because you requested it Farside. I didn't plan to clog up the thread any further than this post anyway, but your wish is noted and will be respected.

[Reasonably Rational]

Please state whom you picked for beach prize at the start of day 3 in order given.


kraskaesque - claimed
SnarkySnowman - claimed
DrippingGoofball - claimed

randomidget

Not Chara-claimed
Shadow_step
Reasonably Rational - claimed
Shiro - claimed
Xkfyu
farside22 - claimed
TheFuzzylogic
TheWayItEnds
Skybird
MagnaofIllusion
Creature - claimed
Firebringer - claimed
Almost50
grapes
McMenno
Yume
mastina
Titus

This list should really include who each person voted for and how many points that represents for that person, if the person making the claim is town.

If you don't do it farside, I'll add it in sometime tomorrow hopefully. Sorta busy this weekend, but I'll try.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh come on

Sir Cakes was deliciously bus'able

If he was your buddy... would you have defended him? No - he's worth more dead and sprinkling fairy towncred dust on his surviving scumpals of they bus'ed him.

Interesting. So are you saying you believe the people who defended him were more likely townbeads than scum? What about his wagon? Do you think scum were flocking to it?

-Cerb

@Titus: Stop calling us her defense attorney. We want people to think things through and not be stupid, that's all. Right now we have 3 ascetic claims, one of which has flipped town. This means it's no longer as cut and dry as "late claim NU and we lynch you ". That much should be obvious, and you should be able to follow with the reasoning behind it.

WITH THAT SAID....I still want the rest of the beach city votes before I say anything more on farside.

@kraska: Titus is right. The points don't clear anyone on their own. Think about it and you'll see why, or just wait until we get through this laborious process and we'll explain it to you.

[Reasonably Rational]

Actually...Titus, why would scum!farside keep doing something that she knows isn't going to make you see her as town?

-Cerb

Pedit: Oneechan is farside.Okasan is Titus. Otasan is my slot.

[Reasonably Rational]

Titus are you gonna do mathblade all over and ignore the fact that chara's score means far is town? Just answer with yes or no

That's not a fact. I will explain

why

after claims.

Then why not save your 1v1 with her until after claims when you can explain things? :s

Because apparently I gave Farside too much of a hint so she would have had time to make up a story, since Titus was SOOO subtle originally that there's no way farside knew she was talking about her, even though she pointedly asked farside for more information AND had hinted at a guilty gained last night when farside was an obvious suspect of hers yesterday.

/s

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Actually...Titus, why would scum!farside keep doing something that she knows isn't going to make you see her as town?

-Cerb

Pedit: Oneechan is farside.Okasan is Titus. Otasan is my slot.

Painting me a bitch causes people to tune out and disengage.

Acceptable answer. Carry on.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You claimed ascetic late, despite being told that late claims were punishable by hanging, and you didn't pursue the other ascetic claimers

the guy who said as much has now shifted to being your defense attorney, yet you don't find that problematic?

Stahp it. Pointing out that from an outside point of view (that is: not you or her), it looks like a TvT and trying to point you to something to put in the "pro" column a defense attorney does not make. Besides, I'm not an attorney, which you know.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Titus are you gonna do mathblade all over and ignore the fact that chara's score means far is town? Just answer with yes or no

Your assertion isn't true. If you figure out why, say nothing.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

@titus
i think what fayar said about you not being aware of how your actions are playing a huge part in keeping this shitfest going is true
back when i bitched a little on day 2 about you two, far immediately backed down but then you baited her again
and at the start of this day you were totally baiting her before she even posted anything
suffice to say the fact that you went as far as unnecessarily confirm yourself as town and knowingly ruined RR's plan to do a "HA! IN YOUR FACE" to far is...

Well at least someone else saw that.

Just keep the votes coming.
The beach thing is a bust.

NC has my reads.
Nothing I saw will sway Titus and she must have her way.
And before she plays victium again about how I called her names or shit.
The amount of name calling she did far exceeded anything I said. Forgive me for having an opinion that doesn't match Titus.
No need to worry about that happening again.

mod:extending deadline to 5 days

Deadline? Did you mean your V/LA?

Elaborate on Skybird please.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fair enough. The xkfyu point can't be properly evaluated without knowing what he claimed to her and what steven has told her about it.

And I was telling you all yesterday that third parties are a thing here. I actually have evidence of at least 2 third party factions in this game, though only one has a pt/is informed at all.

So, were you playing towards a town win con, with the third party thing as an out just in case, or were you playing for the 3p win con the whole time? Is that why you were saying you weren't going to be using your vote power, so you wouldn't use up your points and put yourself further away from your alternative win condition?

@Yume: I said two things about peridot. Not sure which one you're saying is correct, but I did receive separate confirmation about my mechanical suspicions regarding peridot, whic simultaneously disproved my identity theory.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fair enough. The xkfyu point can't be properly evaluated without knowing what he claimed to her and what steven has told her about it.

And I was telling you all yesterday that third parties are a thing here. I actually have evidence of at least 2 third party factions in this game, though only one has a pt/is informed at all.

So, were you playing towards a town win con, with the third party thing as an out just in case, or were you playing for the 3p win con the whole time? Is that why you were saying you weren't going to be using your vote power, so you wouldn't use up your points and put yourself further away from your alternative win condition?

@Yume: I said two things about peridot. Not sure which one you're saying is correct, but I did receive separate confirmation about my mechanical suspicions regarding peridot, whic simultaneously disproved my identity theory.

-Cerb

Two third parties?

Yep. Details aren't significant yet, and I'm not the only one with the information so any elaboration will have to wait.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fair enough. The xkfyu point can't be properly evaluated without knowing what he claimed to her and what steven has told her about it.

And I was telling you all yesterday that third parties are a thing here. I actually have evidence of at least 2 third party factions in this game, though only one has a pt/is informed at all.

So, were you playing towards a town win con, with the third party thing as an out just in case, or were you playing for the 3p win con the whole time? Is that why you were saying you weren't going to be using your vote power, so you wouldn't use up your points and put yourself further away from your alternative win condition?

@Yume: I said two things about peridot. Not sure which one you're saying is correct, but I did receive separate confirmation about my mechanical suspicions regarding peridot, whic simultaneously disproved my identity theory.

-Cerb

Yeah, it sound fun at first, hey let's get point, get a 3rd party win and call it a game.
I also had the town win condition if I can't reach the right number of points.
I use the points and I start getting further from the 3rd opportunity.
I think my event is useful but in the end I wasnt thinking about it since I use points to get it going.

Funny story I asked the mod in the PT how many points we gwt if Chara votes self and I vote nc and he told us 5 points.
Poor mod unknowingly mod confirmed us to each other with that response without meaning to.

That's not mod confirmation. That's what the mechanics for the event state.

So the 3p thing waa the goal, got it.

So if we refuse to ally with you for the rest of the game, and nobody targets you, you'll be forced to play for a town win, yes?

@NC: you should read the rest of the game, it's a good lesson in living on the edge of death. I couldn't win with town. As soon as I removed all my targets, which included the entire scum team, I endgamed everyone else.

There's no reason for farside to claim.being 3p here. She's not on the verge of lynch, and she has nothing to offer town. There's no real parallels to my situation in SF.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Shh Titus. I want Farside's response, not your attack. Your attack is useless and has already given us all the information that we need.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Yume: you're suggesting we should deliberately mislynch. That isn't something I can support unless we KNOW it's going to work...and even then, it's still a hard sell.

Why isn't MoI telling us to lynch him for this effect?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Fire Just you know, I was excited for this game, but you, you ruined it.

@RR Because we aren't completely sure whether it would work that way.

Don't let someone else ruin your enjoyment. Just...don't. Don't give them that power over you.

Got it. Get your Varsoon clarifications and we can go from there.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

what do you need it for

Pretty obvious.

Easy way to identify who should have possessed what knowledge at what time, what abilities were active and what effects were working on which slots, as we get flips and start to fill in the blanks we can establish the history of the game and use said information to clear town and catch scum.

Why do you want to obfuscate things?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

what do you need it for

Pretty obvious.

Easy way to identify who should have possessed what knowledge at what time, what abilities were active and what effects were working on which slots, as we get flips and start to fill in the blanks we can establish the history of the game and use said information to clear town and catch scum.

Why do you want to obfuscate things?

-Cerb

Hey, RR, speaking of that, why shouldn't I take major umbrage at your two third parties belief?

Hmm? Umbrage why? At my reluctance to reveal the details?

@McMenno: last I checked you weren't conftown, which means yes, it does have impact on my gamesolving.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

what do you need it for

Pretty obvious.

Easy way to identify who should have possessed what knowledge at what time, what abilities were active and what effects were working on which slots, as we get flips and start to fill in the blanks we can establish the history of the game and use said information to clear town and catch scum.

Why do you want to obfuscate things?

-Cerb

Hey, RR, speaking of that, why shouldn't I take major umbrage at your two third parties belief?

Hmm? Umbrage why? At my reluctance to reveal the details?

@McMenno: last I checked you weren't conftown, which means yes, it does have impact on my gamesolving.
-Cerb

I was thinking more the belief at all. Where I sit the belief is wholly unsupported, and we have had the same neighbors for the most part.

You're in contact with people who can confirm this to you. I don't know why they haven't done so already given that you're conftown.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Kevin wouldn't be a member.

AND you're the one whose mistaken

Promise.

100%.

It's possible the third parties have all become one faction, but they definitely started the game aa two distinct entities.

Or some people have lied. That's definitely possible too. :p
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You should really wonder more about the theory yume said I had correct. It's related. You should ask her about it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't know why fb would give a gun to anyone other than Titus or Mastin.

Both have touted some level of protection, and both are conftown. (Nearly, in mastins case).

@Titus: Drixx and I have been debating whether A50 is a safe individual to share information with. He's on the right track, he has some things we can clear up that will get him on the right page.

Thoughts?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

OK, so @Yume & @Snarky:

How would you feel about allying with eachother (and with myself)??

Almost, you're up. Who did you vote for in the beach event?

Almost...

He voted for mastin at my direction.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Rr: do you know who is 3rd party?

I believe I've identified 5 of them, but I have confirmation of only 3.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Rr: do you know who is 3rd party?

I believe I've identified 5 of them, but I have confirmation of only 3.

-Cerb

DGB, Creature, random, TWIE, Firebringer?

I'm not going to confirm any of that, because as I said yesterday, I'm of the opinion thst it's like a number if them are effectively town, and are really practically conftown, so I'm not going to out them until I see a flip that makes it possible for them to win without town.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yume.

Relax.

Go watch awesome SU music videos on YouTube or something. ^^

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Greg as I explained made no sense flavour with role. Connie does with joining with Steven.

Centip also makes sense for miller.

I have verified that mine does so SS well

Kevin does as well (noisy rb, priceless cause he used to cut stevonie when she tried to talk)

Now I wonder why greg didn't? Oh I know because his role made sense for his real role.

Ehhh I guess this makes sense.
I still think it's reasonable to think scum have connection to Steven.

Sky has done nothing really townie in my book so I give zero townread.

Speaking of your reads where you at now fb?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

edit /is not scum.......

Can we get totals then titus? Pretty sure I know where mastin/Yume and you voted as well.

I'm also pretty sure I get where your scum pool comes from.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Almost certain mastin and Yume voted for mastin, and Titus voted for herself.

I believe the numbers on mastin are either exactly right, or short exactly one point, depending on whether varsoon counted yume and mastins alliance with one another as making Yume's vote for mastin worth 2 points. It's not the normal alliance so no idea how he would interpret it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It's impossible for a traitor to have been part of any of the big pools. There is no way scum would vote in a fashion thst would put a half vote anywhere so a traitors uncoordinated vote would have created a .5 in whatever pool they voted in.

@Varsooon: please confirm that the beachapalooza votes are accurate.
@Yume/Mastin: please confirm with Varsoon the number of votes yume would give if voting for mastin.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ah. Hmm. Possible. Seems to require a level of ineptitude I find hard to believe, since any scum could have just said they voted for themselves/no one and been basically assured of not being caught due to your and Farside's decision to create a 5 vote threshold.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

There are two simple solutions that allow for all scum to be in the pool of players claiming to have voted someone who didn't make the list or claiming no vote or just not answering (setting aside the Not Chara situation which has a super obvious flaw in the assumpetion that NC and Farside are both town).

1.) Varsoon may have made a mistake with the tally. We don't know whether the ongoing permanent alliance Yume and Mastin have claimed would impact points the way a regular exposition alliance does. We should ask.

2.) SC's flip implies a scum traitor. A scum traitor uninformed of whatever scum did to try and avoid being PoEd by this event would put the count off by one, and I can't come up with any sound reasoning on how to isolate where that person would be in the claims. It's possible they could have claimed honestly and there's a way the numbers work. It's also possible they are in the self-vote/not-on-list vote/no-vote/no answer grouping.

@Varsoon: Presuming the claimed permanent alliance between Mastin and Yume exists as publicly claimed, would that claimed permanent alliance have impacted the points for Beach-a-palooza voting? Can you please check that the point totals you gave are consistent with however you decided that and let us know? Thanks.

Now: if Titus' premises are sound, I would look at Farside as a possible place where scum could have tried to hide voting plus get a "clear". In fact, that very idea was pushed really early on in the process. Farside "must" be town because of the Not Chara vote total; however, scum!farside would simply need a teammate to vote there as well and claim to have done something else, and there's a gambit to try and get a clear (which makes a lot of sense given Titus and Farside spent like 50 pages fighting on day 2, and Titus popped IC which was announced when the event started). This hinges on Farside's personality really: would she attempt this sort of gambit?

The other obvious place Titus already highlighted. Titus messed up earlier and revealed who Steven is when she revealed that she knew Skybird and Yume were allied day one when that wasn't actually known info outside of people Yume told. Yume didn't even tell US that, but mostly because we had to tell her like ten times not to info dump on us. Titus demonstrated why with the table earlier; if you don't KNOW something that the game at large doesn't need to know, then you can't possibly refer to it accidentally. It's okay though; I'm pretty sure anyone paying attention could have worked that out. We worked it out pretty easily and gave Yume our reasoning yesterday. We also worked out the third party faction thing which I think is just a matter of time before it's shown true.

So now here's where it gets hairy. Depending on Varsoon's answer, either the PoE will change, or we'll be looking at A50 and Skybird. A50 would have to be putting on a master class in scum play, I think, given how he has posted in our PT today. He info dumped as promised and he was off in a number of areas. It feels really organic, like he arrived at those places because of reasoning that wasn't obviously wrong because he lacked a critical piece of information. I don't know if it could even BE faked.

That leaves Skybird, which would mean Scum were given Steven's identity on day one. I would say that is unlikely except we were Steven the first time around and scum got our identity at the same time as a town member did. There's a bit of irony if this is the case, since the scum that got access to us was Centipeedle.

Did I work the PoE correctly Titus? Check my reasoning please.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@Not Chara - Whose idea was it to vote for you and put a vote threshold at 5?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Scratch #2 above. Super obvious reason that I totally missed.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@Not Chara - Whose idea was it to vote for you and put a vote threshold at 5?

~Drixx

farside suggested it. i didn't see a problem and agreed.
i'm sorry for the issues it caused. i didn't consider the possibility of a really low vote winning third. farside and i just assumed everyone would vote in Titus/mastin/Yume.

Thanks. Who originated the idea of it "clearing" both of you?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, it's already been revealed twice, so might as well confirm it. I am Steven.

Why? I know that Titus explicitly outed you in the table AND in her post, but there's a difference between Titus telling people what they could already figure out and you claiming it. Varsoon

explicitly

warned us not to flavor claim. Why? *inarticulate noises*

~Drixx

P-Edit: There's too many people who claimed that they voted somewhere we have no point total, or didn't vote, or just didn't answer for going much further than I did. What did I miss?

As for supposing I'm town: I can't help you there. Yume might be able to though. We were exceptionally candid with her yesterday in our alliance.

[Reasonably Rational]

If you full claimed, do you authorize Yume to tell me?

We full claimed. Yes she can tell you. Take a good long think about what our ability implies. I think it should have already occurred to you with the other info you have, but if it didn't, it

most definitely

should after you get that piece of info.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@Titus - Scum votes were halved, so wouldn't a traitor vote stand out if it were on Mastin, you or NC?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

her play doesn't make sense as a group scum. it makes sense as someone going for a third party win condition.
her play in our topic is some next-level effort considering the only player she can convince with it is me.

if farside is scum, then her claim is not her mod-provided fakeclaim. unless you think Varsoon gave scum a third party fakeclaim? if that's your theory, i could listen.
assuming Varsoon wouldn't do so: it's quite a gambit as scum to avoid claiming one's own fakeclaim in favour of claiming a messy third party.

i can see why Yume made that play. what i don't see is why scum have made NO KILLS. does it have something to do with the cluster event? were they blocked, or protected?

That's why I am pondering whether Farside would run that sort of Gambit. Varsoon explicitly told us that he handcrafted safe fake claims for scum BEFORE he made town roles so that they would hold up. Here's the reality though Not Chara:

1.) Voting you was her idea.
2.) The idea that it would "mechanically clear" both of you was her idea.
3.) Instead of waiting to get all the vote claims, the idea that you two were conftown got pushed, and that idea originated with her.

That's either

really

town, or

really

scum. You want to bet the game on it being the first?

~Drixx

P-Edit: I see what you mean Titus. That makes total sense given SC's flip. That said, isn't there a super obvious person who is almost certainly the traitor we're looking for?

[Reasonably Rational]

yume stop hiding flips

Stop telling her what to do. She's doing what absolutely makes sense from her informed perspective and you not understanding because of your perspective doesn't mean it is bad play.

what was the point of hiding math's flip? what was the point of hiding the scum flip? lycan and i thought this was def a scum ability on night 1 bc why the crap would town deprive town from info from a scum flip

Think about what has been said. You already know why the flips are delayed, if you've read the game. I'm assuming Titus either already knows or will soon know that it's a two edged sword.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

its seems odd to have two bp,...it makes it extremely hard for scum to win.....I would imagine that scum would have to have a way to counter this ,,,,,,,maybe I am missing something

ok, i've come to a decision.
DGB is lying about being ascetic. mod-confirmed to me. is that enough for us to lynch her?

fuzzy: scum absolutely have a Strongman ability, or something similar.

Guys please go read the stress mechanics.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Yume seems convinced it is though, so you are right we should wait for Mastina. If Yume is mistaken, there is not scum required in Skybird/Almost/RR.

Well, Yume should really just ask Varsoon how many points her vote for Mastin gave. Mastin won't actually be the source of any information in this case, because she can't ask how many points yume would have given.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Mm. I need to evaluate your equation Titus, but lack the cognitive energy to do so right now. Can you adjust the scenario to account for the fact that a vote isn't missing from mastin? I know you said it doesn't change optimal play, but please walk through why nothing changes, I'm feeling very dumb today.

Also, if Drixx didn't respond, yes, of course yume can tell you everything we told her.

-Cerb

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Yume: unless what was discussed in post 86 from our pt is what's happening with KC, I'm inclined to agree with FB.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Magna, I claim odd night role cop.
I checked your slot last night. You are a strongman.

I won't lynch you though cause your such a dick that even though you have as in role your probably town.

Odd night eh? Checking on an even night?

O.o

:p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh? Good job then. Very impressive.

-Cerb

Pedit: you...don't know what HER ability says. She could very easily have a different variant of ascetic from yourself. ...

[Reasonably Rational]

Fb also needs high stress so....nothing he can do gifting wise in our current situation.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fb also needs high stress so....nothing he can do gifting wise in our current situation.

-Cerb

DING DING.

Looks like someone understands.

I always understand FB. I just like watching other people fail to get it sometimes. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Rr: serious question. Do you really believe based on what Titus said above that she really will change her views on me.
Personally I highly doubt anything will change her mind.

@Farside: this is the only question I found, and I don't really know. I don't even know if her changing her mind would actually be a good thing overall, since assuming you're telling the truth, a lynch elsewhere does allow us the chance to hit scum, but if you're still trying for your 3p win con then at some point you'll exit the game early, which is basically giving scum a free kill. It's great for you, not so good for us.

I'm pretty sure however, that the above was not the question you were talking about. The only message I sent Varsoon was asking him to confirm that the count for the beach-a-palooza votes was correct, since we had a discrepancy.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Rr: do you know who is 3rd party?

I believe I've identified 5 of them, but I have confirmation of only 3.

-Cerb

DGB, Creature, random, TWIE, Firebringer?

Rr: do you know who is 3rd party?

I believe I've identified 5 of them, but I have confirmation of only 3.

-Cerb

DGB, Creature, random, TWIE, Firebringer?

I'm not going to confirm any of that, because as I said yesterday, I'm of the opinion thst it's like a number if them are effectively town, and are really practically conftown, so I'm not going to out them until I see a flip that makes it possible for them to win without town.

-Cerb

The first 2 are important for scum analyst

The first one is also more likely to be lynched when the vote count resets today if I'm lynched.

There's not a question in this sequence that I didnt already address, and it's the only thing I found about DGB.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@yume: is kling dead because of you? If so and you think she was scum, why are you withholding that flip?

Stop badgering Yume scumbag. Her actions are completely reasonable and unless you are going to press her as scum this is a pointless line of questioning.

I don't actually think anyone agrees with this other than you. Oh, and NC I guess, but that's because he views her as conftown and somehow thinks you shouldn't question conftown doing anti-town things.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't actually think anyone agrees with this other than you. Oh, and NC I guess, but that's because he views her as conftown and somehow thinks you shouldn't question conftown doing anti-town things.

-Cerb

Hey Cerb - remember when one of your heads told me to go jump in a lake because I didn't have the information you had?

Yeah, this would be an ironic echo - you don't have enough information to justify your stance.

Ask yume about my post 86 from our pt together and then you can decide whether or not I've figured enough out to justify my stance. I've basically expressed the only circumstances under which this behavior is acceptable.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hm. Alright, none of that actually justifies not letting KC flip then?

:/

Like I said, 86 made sense as a reason depending on the details, but...the others, not so much. Gotta maintain my position that it's anti-town to deny the town information that could be helpful in determining what lynch is most likely to hit scum.

I mean, I don't think my position is gonna change your mind, but here it is so we can argue about it post-game. :p

-Cerb

@xk: you're supposed to be conftown today. Sup yo?

[Reasonably Rational]

Post 86 only applies to lynched players, not scum-killed players, by the way.

That's what my assumption was originally, but when I saw a kill today that didn't flip I figured I was wrong.

Can you explain why mastin claimed YOU were the source of the kc kill? She said it was the same source as rhe fb thing, which you've claimed....but you say it was scum, not you.

Or is it super secret hidden stuff that shouldn't be discussed?

@xk: I see. I have questions but this probably isn't the right venue to ask them in.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

This is exactly like bloodborne, when I don't know wtf is going on because I was never a part of the master of hunt or whatever that thing was.

You did well shadow. Had I been quicker, we'd have lynched Nahdia due to your help.

-Cerb

Pedit: I didn't present EITHER of those things. I'm asking why Mastin, who has a pt with Yume, presented them. I was well aware since the start of D2 that FBs disappearance was unlikely to be a kill, due to the verbiage used.

[Reasonably Rational]

I specifically said I wasn't going to confirm anything regarding any if them? I addressed your question and told you I wouldn't answer it.

@yume: she was conftown to you and you told me the gems win with town. Why didn't you share everything with her? Are you concealing things from Titus too?

Help me understand.
'Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR, I think there's been a misunderstanding. I don't believe Yume killed KC.

I don't believe so either. In fact, I'd even go do far as to say that had she killed KC she would have been deliberately playing against her win con.

What I'm trying tfigure is why someone she misinformed or failed to inform someone who she said is conftown.

-Cerb

Pedit: ... Am I the only one who remembers my post from yesterday? YUME IS CONF THIRD PARTY WHO CLAIMS TO WIN WITH TOWN, NOT CONFTOWN.

I'm trying to reconcile the claim that the gems win with town with the fact that Yume has actively deceived CONFTOWN, withheld information from them, AND is, as far as I can tell, denying town a flip which would confirm whether we should trust the gems or not(because KC was almost certainly a gem).

I'm not questioning conftown on their motives. The only conftown here is Titus until we see a Crystal Gem flip.

We can table this discussion if Titus doesn't think it's worth pursuing, but as far as I can tell the gems are doing everything they can do keep town from knowing anything more than they have to, and THAT is not pro town behavior.

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR, I don't think Yume is lying or deceiving here.

You're going to need to back that up.

@Titus: Why wasn't mastin told about the gems being 3p? Why wasn't she properly informed about what happened with FB? Why did she believe the KC kill came from Yume?

All those conclusions are ones she could only arrive at if Yume withheld information from her. Why would Yume withhold information from conftown?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It's arguable that Yume didn't lie or deceive Mastin, btw, but mastins absolute CERTAINTY that there were no third parties in the game makes me feel that at some point Yume DID outright lie to Mastin about the gems.

-Cerb

Pedit: fuck the flavor speculation. Seriously. I felt the same way you did yesterday, but since Yume has confirmed to me that the only good reason to not flip KC isn't the case, we're only left with the bad anti-town reasons, the ones where the gems don't want town to see their win condition.

[Reasonably Rational]

Actually, I did lie to her, and this is why

Ergo. This game is not going to have third party players. I would lynch any claimed third party player on sight, even if I were townreading them previously.

You can't use that as a defense.

She didn't say that until mid-late day 2, and you were in a pt with her from the start of D1. She wouldn't have made that statement had you told her the truth in the first place. Why didn't you?

@Creature: read the game, learn to understand the game state, and...for someone who says they read one of my games in the past...you seem awfully unaware of the deliberation with which I post. That is to say, flailing is foreign to me. I don't get flustered and lash out.

@Titus: was your post saying you choose to ignore it you telling me to table the matter? I will, but please get a straight answer from Yume in private.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

She likely had that stance from the very start, and had I told her, she would have simply lynched all of us.

...

Bullshit. Not an acceptable answer. There are too many crystal gems for such a course to be reasonable, AND with a sizable voting block under your control, the odds are FAR less likely that a successful lynch will occur even if she were to make that decision...and flavor wise, most of the game wouldn't lynch you guys on principle, barring proof of an incompatible win con.

@Titus: I'm sorta confused actually now. No idea what you were too subtle about. I can like...just drop it. ;p
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Lol, why would I lynch you? I just want to understand. :/ Not willing to risk mislynching someone who could be practically conftown when things would be cleared up with basically any crystal gems flip.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Skybirds double vote requires using two vote tags per her earlier statement. She can add another vote, but as of now she just counts as 1.

And...Titus there is NOTHING bastard about repurposing flavor and defying player expectations.

Nothing at all.

Yume: are you seriously telling me that we just have to trust that you and the other gems are all completely pro town based on flavor?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

yes, she's a bad lynch. but inevitable for because.
kraska, have you considered replacing in as yourself? unless you've heard from lycan and they'll be coming back.

i don't think there are two scum in shadow/Skybird. only one. i could lynch Shiro.

pedit: i see, thank you Cerb. Skybird, is there a reason you're only supporting the wagon halfway?

Steven being anti-town wouldn't be bastard. it would justbe strange. really, though, no flavour-compliant win condition would make Steven a threat. i agree with the notion of scum gems within the gems, though.

There's a really obvious answer to your skybird question.:/ Like, it's so obvious this feels like a busywork sort of question.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

If anyone hammers but RR, I will be very annoyed.

...
Umm..

I think you're missing a key component of what we claimed...

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

lynching farside will certainly help increase the stress. let's do that.

The mod didn't say that would happen in my role.
Just a VC reset.

But on a happy note more points, the merrier.

Who wants to target me tonight to get out of this tunnel rage from she that shall not be named??

So....we can just keep lynching you? Is that what you're saying? Because normally I'd expect some other effect, such as you being commuted or something.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Two allies allowed tonight...

And that's actually not the obvious answer skybird, and thats sorta weird. NC, the obvious answer I expected was to preserve wagon composition and make vca more valuable. More double votes =less people on the wagon=less information gained from the wagon and subsequent flip.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Titus:

@kraska: walk me through scum!shadow when you get back, using JUST shadows posts. The prior occupants of the slot claimed illness and exams to explain their lack of participation, so I'm not particularly interested in any argument based on their play/lack thereof. Shadows play has seemed to be...acceptable.

-Cerb

@FB: Can we bring random too? I really want my randomidget pt this game.

Also, I was about to suggest we ally too. I'm curious why you'd want to ally with me though?

Pedit: they flip AT MOST a phase after death. Mathblade flipped partway through the night, not at the start of the next phase like SC did. That indicates there is an active hand and thst whoever is causing it can CHOOSE when to let them flip.

Pedit again: with the stress movement delay, and certain other information I have, I actually find it very likely that the delayed flips are caused by a town effect. That's why I'm even wasting my effort telling them to hurry up and give us the flip if that's what they're gonna do.

Since then, they've continued doing nothing, so they're sinking towards scum, but they haven't done anything overtly scummy/had to catch up I assume...actually.

Are you caught up yet shadow? Like 100% caught up?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Besides, this is not how it works. You ignore me when I accuse you and when I try to call you out on it you immediately change the subject. I am fed up with bs such as that. And people here view me as inferior player when people like you take a good argument and believe simply saying 'zzz' or something similar at that is a good defense?

The argument wasn't good.
People do forget things. It's not like I write down everything that happens in every game.

Do you remember every player in this game without looking back?

I do. I only look back because I refuse to risk being wrong. :p

And it's a pretty important thing, honestly. ..but in your defense, I believe it was only explicitly mentioned 3 or so times on D1, and it wasn't actually spelled out as vote stealing. KC just told us that DGB claimed responsibility for her not being able to vote, and there was a vote with no name next to it on snarky snowman at some point. So, not explicit until DGB claimed today(which you apparenrly missed) but the evidence was definitely there.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh yume, speaking of Klingon's flip...you do realize that by telling everyone the reason WHY you're witholding it, you've removed said reason...so you might as well let her flip now. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside: it's pretty obvious why yume trusts MOIs opinion.

@Titus: who's your second choice after farside, if it turns out she isn't lying, and for some reason we can't just lynch her again?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, can you explain your "so strong I'm willing to discuss things that should be kept away from scum in his presence" townread on shiro Titus?

That was the main cause of the disagreement regarding alliances I had with Drixx. If we're not going to be taking advantage of the hood to discuss sensitive things because not all parties are trusted by one another, then it's better to use that opportunity for hunting instead.

Do you have any more tangible reason for the shiro townread than you gave before?
-Cerb

Pedit: @Yume, did you miss my remark or are you just ignoring it?

[Reasonably Rational]

Are you Yellow Diamond?

Spoiler: the truth

for someone who kicked me out of previous SU because they couldn't acknowledge the fact that feelings exist, you sure seem to be like her, an evil ruler who thinks they're always right, no matter what.

That's right, I am back and I am not someone you can toy with in such a manner ever again. I am the improved me.

p-edit: Frankly, I am. I am sick of people like her. So yeah.

I'm sorry you feel that way about me.

Alright though, important to know when one is being ignored and when one simply hasn't been noticed. Duly noted.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

That was to farside.

Oh. Okay. I thought you were upset because I keep badgering you about the flip.

@Farside: it's moderately logical to want to lynch you. A lot of your behaviors have been distinctly anti-town. The strongest point(s) in your favor are you not shooting your counterwagon to save yourself, and the fact that you outright claimed to be aiming for a 3p win condition when you didn't have any reason to make that claim.

Unfortunately though, those things are balanced by the fact that that you insist on aiming for that third party win condition, rather thatshat an attempting to win with town, when said win condition will essentially give scum a free kill. Yes, it's better for you personally, but now that you've outed it, it's best for you to just play for town...but you don't want to do that. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, can you explain your "so strong I'm willing to discuss things that should be kept away from scum in his presence" townread on shiro Titus?

That was the main cause of the disagreement regarding alliances I had with Drixx. If we're not going to be taking advantage of the hood to discuss sensitive things because not all parties are trusted by one another, then it's better to use that opportunity for hunting instead.

Do you have any more tangible reason for the shiro townread than you gave before?
-Cerb

Pedit: @Yume, did you miss my remark or are you just ignoring it?

Shiro was pushed by Math and Farside.
The 180 on Almost seemed rather townie.
Shiro isn't lock town, but I feel comfortable enough discussing things with them.
Shiro has been acting more like our New York game than his scum game.

The only minor reservation I have is their recent play. It's very minor though.

Him being pushed by math and farside are terrible reasons to townread him, given one flipped town, and the other is a preflip associative. I'll reevaluate the 180 on almost and see if it made sense for scum to do so at the time, amd then determine if the way he did it was townie or scum.

Their recent play is crap.

(Yes, it's 3 PM. Blame my mom for hogging the computer for basically three hours. But I'm here.)

Also, can whoever controls this delayed flip thing (because OBVIOUSLY someone directly controls it, or else mathblades flip wouldn't have happened in the middle of the night)

Point of clarity, that was actually because of a dialog with Varsoon.

One best not left disclosed.

Welcome mastin. Please share many thoughts. Also, *cough* I , eh, I told you so.

:p

Interesting note about the conversation with Varsoon leading to the flip in the middle of the night, but it's not really important, what is important is our knowledge that flips CAN be revealed before the start of the next phase, and Yume's refusal to do so in order to obscure her already obscured win condition.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Yume: please remind mastin of the first sentence of post 84 from our pt.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It's TWIE's fault LOL he forgot to mention it in the PT

This excuse works a lot better when moderators don't send you reminder PMs as Varsoon obsessively does.
This is also the second time you have used this excuse. First, to justify not allying with Titus. And now, this.

Just sayin'.

Minor correction here...there were no reminder pms for the Beachapalooza. At least, I didn't receive one.

That doesn't excuse not voting, but just sayin'.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Drixx, MoI knows precisely what we are talking about.

@RR Actually, he does know about that thing, I believe.

And still not doing it.

Okay. It's your call. Surprised KTS was in the loop but whatevs. We'll make it work.

~Drixx

Pretty sure this *should* somewhat resolve your concern with MoI, though it does just bring up new concerns.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

That was to farside.

Oh. Okay. I thought you were upset because I keep badgering you about the flip.

@Farside: it's moderately logical to want to lynch you. A lot of your behaviors have been distinctly anti-town. The strongest point(s) in your favor are you not shooting your counterwagon to save yourself, and the fact that you outright claimed to be aiming for a 3p win condition when you didn't have any reason to make that claim.

Unfortunately though, those things are balanced by the fact that that you insist on aiming for that third party win condition, rather thatshat an attempting to win with town, when said win condition will essentially give scum a free kill. Yes, it's better for you personally, but now that you've outed it, it's best for you to just play for town...but you don't want to do that. :/

-Cerb

Your not voting dgb.
Sooooo....
You think I should do it all?
Sorry, no

I didn't ask you to do anything in particular? My point was that you just keep going on about how you're just going to go for your alternate win condition instead of trying to win with the town, when it doesn't make any sense for you to do that now that it's been outed.

And I'm not voting for dgb because if you do use your vote thing to lynch her, I want it to cost you as much as possible.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Worth noting: Not Chara is confirmed as town from this.
Not Chara got 5 points.
Even if Not Chara were scum and farside were scum, that would mean they'd get 1.5 votes, and 1 vote, respectively, for it. Then, factor in scumbuddies: one scumbuddy brings the total up to 3. That's three scum voting, and you get 3 votes. Then, factor in two more. You still end up short, at only 4.

In other words, Not Chara cannot be scum, no matter what. (This is rather handy for my analysis!)
farside is, in theory, possible: her vote would be worth one point. (So, 4.) Two scumbuddies would bring that total up to five.
However, I do not think that probable.

Flawed analysis. NC as scum would be 1.5, farside as town would be 2, up to 3.5+3 buddies=5.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

But we do know that they can't BOTH be scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Flawed analysis. NC as scum would be 1.5, farside as town would be 2, up to 3.5+3 buddies=5.
-Cerb

Yeah.

3

buddies.
That'd require Not Chara + 3 scumbuddies.
But we have SirCakez dead. (5 total groupscum.)
And we're assuming a traitor.

So unless you think either (1) the traitor's been recruited, (2) the scum coordinated with the traitor, (3) there is no traitor and they just have five groupscum, or (4) there is a traitor and six total scum (five group, plus traitor), then, yeah.
Not Chara is town.

I mean, sure.
It does require a few assumptions here.
But do you believe any of the above are true, Cerb? (I definitely don't believe in 2, general consensus is that it's not 3, so that leaves 1 or 4.)

If not, Not Chara must be town.

1 can't be assumed to be untrue, 2 seems basically impossible without 1 happening, the traitor and a member of the scum team would have needed to luck into allying one another AND been confident enough that they were both scum to claim and plot during the freeze, 3 seems improbable, the jaspar check doesn't make much sense if she isn't a traitor(barring some special bonus for removing her/having her still alive in the game, but she doesn't make sense as town in any way), and 4 isn't unreasonable. I mean, it's a 25 player game. Why would 5.5 scum not work in single ball?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Why would 5.5 scum not work in single ball?
-Cerb

How many players this game have a third party wincon, Cerb?

Ask yourself that.

Then factor in that, no matter how town these third party wincons are,

they are still not town

. From a strictly-speaking technical perspective.

Yeah, in play, they might be. (For instance, the URS.) But from a strictly speaking, balancing, perspective, they aren't.

Umm. I do believe said balancing should be done based on how said roles would actually work in play.

I seem to recall certain defenses you've made regarding your own setups justifying choices because you expected certain roles to play out in certain ways.

IF we assume town compatible win cons for those third parties, that essentially makes them a large masonry, which doesn't exactly make 5.5 scum LESS likely.

I mean, I see your point, I do. But I don't think in practice that's how it would actually be balanced.

Of course, if their win cons aren't aren't benign as we believe they are, then yes, you're right, that many scum seems untenable.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I am pretty sure there's a boatload of scum in those that didn't vote the top three choices. Seems deliberate.

Yes it is.
There can be a MAXIMUM of one scum in those who voted the top three choices. Maximum.
The rest, by necessity, are therefore spread among those that didn't.

And there, I need your feedback.

I think there could maybe be two hidden in there, but I am not town reading the same group you are, so it could be that the difference in our view is in that group of players. Which is fine really. That's not a huge PoE pool if it comes to it.

Why would 5.5 scum not work in single ball?
-Cerb

How many players this game have a third party wincon, Cerb?

Ask yourself that.

Then factor in that, no matter how town these third party wincons are,

they are still not town

. From a strictly-speaking technical perspective.

Yeah, in play, they might be. (For instance, the URS.) But from a strictly speaking, balancing, perspective, they aren't.

I'll let Cerb answer this.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, RR, off of something Yume said to me in the neighborhood: I maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay know a reason why Yume doesn't want Klingoncelt's role to flip.
And if I am right (not sure, this is just me inferring something), then I not only understand the reason why, but think it might be best to keep it that way, though again, this is something I don't actually know for sure.

A reason besides the fact that her faction allegedly doesn't flip with their win cons (which, by the way, I sorta don't buy. I find it more likely that her role has the same ability the SC/Lilith hydra had in Bloodborne that is, she can redacted portions of role cards, and she's now doing that so we can't see that the gems have been lying about their win condition)? A fact which she has told the entire thread, and which thus no longer makes sense as a reason to keep the flip hidden?

Kraska: the problem with your points on shadow are revolved around foxbird.
What about shadow reads scummy?

But a foxbird wagon is more pressing
She completely disregarded the most controversial wagons (not chara and cakes) at the time they were happening, and had convenient scumreads on lurker spots(xk and snarku). Nevermind that snarky was kinda obvious town at the time she dropped this scumread after his farside episode anyway

so that leaves a kraska/klingoncelt/RR/Snarky pool

this is so bad
and these are foxbird's reads after being caught up
omgus, no idea on klig, rr is a convenient scumread being thrown all over the place so they wont be scrutinized for not backing it up and snarky's iso looks pretty town

Why are there no votes on shadow
Foxbirds iso is oozing scum and shadows vote on creature does nothing to redeem the slot
I'll eat cardboard if this doesn't flip scum

Yeah, that's the main problem I have with your case kraska. I asked you to make a case on shadow using JUST his iso, not foxbirds, and I don't believe you ever did so.

Now, making that case is going to be easier now, because as far as I can tell all he's done is respond to you tunneling him, and ignore my question about whether or not he's fully caught up, but stil, the bulk of the negative sentiment towards the slot comes from, as far as I can tell, Foxbirds exams+illness.

Something I just realized that sorta makes me want to reevaluate dgb, except for the fact that her play rarely makes sense to me, so maybe it would be a mistake to lend any weight to this: she didn't use her vote steal in a scummy way at all. Klingon regained her vote, so clearly she was capable of NOT stealing it/not revealing she could steal it...but all she did was take it early game and see who noticed the extra vote, claimed it, and then gave it back.

Why expose what is basically an I win card late game if she didn't have to? I mean sure, it's quite possibly lylo limited, but considering it requires someone ally with her, it could easily not be because it requires she be townread enough to get someone to ally with her in that situation.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay, I promise to flip her if you don't lynch the rest of us immediately after seeing her flip. >.<

I won't. Drixx and I are of the mastin school of thought with regards to third partie, the goal is to find scum, not somebody else whose just hanging around trying to do their own thing.

I mean, you should know that. I was content leaving you guys alone until you started doing things that didn't have any town motivation as far as I could tell. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

shadow/kraska could be scum/scum just based on how focused they are on being pointless towards one another for no reason.

I'm trying not to react to that BS too much to keep the clutter away from the thread. If I was scum with that, I'd be aaking to be replaced, its fucking annoying.

Hi shadow step.

Why shouldn't you die for doing nothing but responding to kraskas tunnel (which has caused almost no one to vote you) since you replaced in? Also, have you caught up with the game entirely? If not, do you intend to?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Shadow seemed town last page

@Titus:I didn't put any time into the game last night really, and your points require actual thought to digest. I'm at work now so I still can't really evaluate it, but two things jumped out at me: First, I'm confused by you simultaneously calling MOI someone with a playstyle which you would expect from a member of the scum team (the so called tactician) while calling him town and not providing your other suspects for that role, and second...the assumption of guilt on the part of skybird for mechanical reasons seems short-sighted. Given that steven is a third party, there is an elegance to there being both a scum slot and a town slot given access to the slot, but there's obvious problems with the fact that such would be a near duplication of circumstances in the first SU, as well as the fact that skybird as town dosent actually have any mechanical arguments against it...it's just that there is an elegance argument in favor of scum+town access to steven.

Also...umm. you mentioned both a third party infiltrator of sorts, and a tactician....and considered MOI for one of those roles...but not the other. Why?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yume. Gonna need an answer to this.

What were the redacted parts of klingon's role? You only said win condition wouldn't show up, and the fact that more did only strengthens my suspicion that you caused those parts to be redacted.

@Varsoon: the rules say stress increases with any non-scum deatb, which implies third party flips would result in a stress increase.. Please confirm that the stress was not meant to change.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You could also give me a good reason why that information was redacted rather than sharing it all.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Patience Titus. You're missing something crucial, I think. Remember what you've been teaching me about how to go about things, especially in light of how many times we've gotten to the brink of victory and failed. You can't push us to change and then point to that change as bad.

You should not, by any means, consider us cleared; however, we know we are and you know what to expect from us. I don't plan to say anything more on the subject in the main thread. Scum can kill us or you can have an infodump in our alliance. It's binary at this point, and we'll be info dumping to A50 in case we don't make it until tomorrow. Like ... you leaked a little bit about our main ability, and I'm not sure we're going to be left alive if the pieces get put together. Please say nothing else about it for now. Just think.

One popular definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. We led hard and trampled over people in SU. We should have won but lost. We (rightfully, I think) questioned a slot which had claimed IC and then went out of their way to trigger it in SU2 (see: our sig) and got mislynched as a result. We clashed hard with you in Space Dandy because we saw things you didn't and we couldn't seem to get you to line up with us... and lost. Seeing the pattern?

~Drixx

@Mastin - You made a more compelling case against Snarky. Cerb's at work so we haven't talked much about it, but like ... if you prefer Kraskaesque can you explain it? Your approach and ours are really different, as you know. Explain it to me like I'm five.

P-Edit: Stop talking about that Mastin. I'm fairly sure we saw the same thing. We can't ally with you to compare notes since you can't talk, but we can get our thoughts relayed to you and see if we're on the same page.

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay, so I just looked over the amethyst flip, and I'm pretty damn sure the redacted things are NOT all gem alliance abilities.

The last three, sure.

But the first two? No.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

If the scumteam has a rational thinker...

you could even say that they're...

reasonably rational.

Also, this is cute.

I approve of this quip.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Grapes I just realized your avatar is edward from Bebop.

That makes me very happy.

That is all.

Oh, and the klingon kill was probably meant to kill a crystal gem...so basically it was a shot at what they probably thought would be conftown later on, or at least someone who they couldn't get mislynched because the other gems would protect her.

Other motivations might have been there too, but yeah. Almost certainly a role related kill+fear of protection on mastin/Titus.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Cerb: do you have opinions on mastin and Titus's individual VCA?

None that this head is likely to get around to articulating prior to Sunday. I'll poke Drixx and tell him to take a look at it while I'm dealing with moving this weekend.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

her points are predicated on farside scum.
Titus, you have Cakez choices making it likely that one of me and RR is scum... but Snarky avoiding both of us in favout of farside is towny? i just, really do not see your points.
and magna, what does Fire's belief that Yume wouldn't be nightkilled have to do with him being scum?

Yes, because Snarky championed a lynch on scum both times, but even if Farside is town and lying about being 3p for some reason, he didn't need to beg for Farside votes. He could have compromised or lurked.

He only stopped voting Cakey because Farside derailed it.

Why can't farside be town and not be lying about the 3p win condition thing? Like, if she's town...doesn't that mean she's not lying about the 3p thing?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

her points are predicated on farside scum.
Titus, you have Cakez choices making it likely that one of me and RR is scum... but Snarky avoiding both of us in favout of farside is towny? i just, really do not see your points.
and magna, what does Fire's belief that Yume wouldn't be nightkilled have to do with him being scum?

Yes, because Snarky championed a lynch on scum both times, but even if Farside is town and lying about being 3p for some reason, he didn't need to beg for Farside votes. He could have compromised or lurked.

He only stopped voting Cakey because Farside derailed it.

Why can't farside be town and not be lying about the 3p win condition thing? Like, if she's town...doesn't that mean she's not lying about the 3p thing?

-Cerb

If she's telling the truth about being a 3p, by definition that makes her a 3p and not town. We have a good 3pmalready in Yume. I don't buy a second 3p ascetic that only claimed after pressure and never went after DGB klingon or math.

She's evil 3p if 3p at all.

Was this slot 3p?

Subject: Mini 1730: Suikoden U-Pick GAME OVER

Brantz - Georg Prime

Vagrant (Allied Unification Army)

I don't expect you to forgive me.

He's got a hell of a history. In the Scarlet Moon Empire, he was 1 of the 6 Generals. In the Grasslands, he was an Ebony Moon Knight, and in Falena, he was a Royal Knight. He just threw it all away. If you are the last surviving member of the Allied Unification Army (Town), you will receive a winning victory as if you were a third-party survivor. You can even curse me if you want to. I can take it. You win the game when all threats to the Allied Unification Army has been defeated and at least one Allied Unification Army player is alive

Mod Note: I realize this may be up for debate in post-game, but I do not consider this role to be bastard ala 'mid-game alignment-change'.
This is due to the fact that the player is aware of their optional win condition and that the player's alignment will always be 'Town'.

[/spoiler]

Also...why do you keep saying klingon claimed ascetic, because I'm pretty sure she didn't. And she technically wasn't, she was some weird sorta ascetic to investigatives.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

her points are predicated on farside scum.
Titus, you have Cakez choices making it likely that one of me and RR is scum... but Snarky avoiding both of us in favout of farside is towny? i just, really do not see your points.
and magna, what does Fire's belief that Yume wouldn't be nightkilled have to do with him being scum?

Yes, because Snarky championed a lynch on scum both times, but even if Farside is town and lying about being 3p for some reason, he didn't need to beg for Farside votes. He could have compromised or lurked.

He only stopped voting Cakey because Farside derailed it.

Why can't farside be town and not be lying about the 3p win condition thing? Like, if she's town...doesn't that mean she's not lying about the 3p thing?

-Cerb

How about this you vote snarky and if there is enough votes that make that half the votes I promise to convert my points to make that lynch happen.

I need to iso snarky and kraska. That's the main reason why I don't have much to say about mastins VCA.

Though snarky's iso is pretty useless I guess.

Meh. I'm going to go out, and I'll evaluate things in the morning k?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

What do you think of Farside now? We'll talk more about how to handle what I was doing post game.

You're referring to this question? You asked me what I thought of her after her late ascetic claim? I already addressed that, even if the post wasn't specifically addressed to you? Like, the specific point you cared about right there was meaningless. Once the game has a bunch of ascetic claims, auto-lynching based on someones ascetic claim becomes stupid.

So..yeah. I've also already said, in my ISO, the reasons why farside makes sense as scum, and why her actions don't make sense as scum.

What exactly do you want from me here?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

What do you think of Farside now? We'll talk more about how to handle what I was doing post game.

You're referring to this question? You asked me what I thought of her after her late ascetic claim? I already addressed that, even if the post wasn't specifically addressed to you? Like, the specific point you cared about right there was meaningless. Once the game has a bunch of ascetic claims, auto-lynching based on someones ascetic claim becomes stupid.

So..yeah. I've also already said, in my ISO, the reasons why farside makes sense as scum, and why her actions don't make sense as scum.

What exactly do you want from me here?

-Cerb

You to take a stance.

I don't like how you're oversimplifying things and forgetting about your earlier stance. I am NOT wanting to lynch Farside solely because she claimed ascetic.

You yourself said that any negative utility roles would be lynched if they failed to claim. Yet here, you're not wanting to lynch Farside because she also claimed third party with it.

Second, you ignore that Farside never went after DGB or klingon or Math. There has been a pattern so far between the millers and ascetics. No two share the same alignment or restrictions.

You're acting as if because some negative utility claimers claimed early, there's a built in excuse not to lynch Farside.

There's the terrible reaction to the SirCakez wagon. She tries to deflect not going back to vote Cakey because she was trying to work with Almost50, yet she destroyed his event's utility.

There's a scum event that if everyone happened to forgo their ability in an alliance that would net town something like 12 points, even after we lynched SirCakez (assuming Farside was town). That is pretty convienent for scum.

Farside allegedly tried to roleblock grapes when acting could murder us all.

She's tried to make things personal repeatedly.

She's doubtcasted town all game.

So yeah, go ahead and try to say this is just about claiming ascetic, even though that alone is worth lynching her for given the total lack of sorting on DGB or Klingon.

Here's a stance: Cerberus and I are both far more tolerant of 3rd parties than 99.9% of the people on the site. We also care way more about getting it right than anything else.

My personal view? Farside has basically claimed almost exactly what I altered the fake claim I inherited in SMITE into. Like ... I personally find it basically not believable that Varsoon went and read that monstrous game and pulled out my fake claims and turned it into a role, or that he just happened to make exactly that role. I don't see any reason to fight you on this, but I'm not going to tell Cerb to just STFU so you'll like us.

The bottom line for me is this: We asked Farside to leash to town wincon by never allying again and (obviously) having nobody target. That means no more points which means the claimed "get enough points and I win and exit the game" wincon is off the table. I don't see why, if the claim was honest, Farside wouldn't agree to that readily. Being unreasonable with you I can understand, after the mess of crap yesterday. Being unwilling to engage with us strikes me as off. I think an honest Farside would have engaged and bent over backwards to work with us.

So I think we're looking at something dishonest about Farside. My supposition would be that she suspected Cerb's friendly engagement was a trap.

You know Farside way better than us. Does that line up with her personality?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

So, Farside has recycled your very fake claim in Smite and you're still waffling?

You also realize that the only alliance she finished is the one where she convienetly tried to argue she was conftown from? The learning even starts from the position that she's honest when she's been forced to reveal omissions based on lies.

If Farside gained points from blowing up alliances, then why did she stay with NC and not blow it up immediately on Day 3 after voting? Appearing town is more important to Farside than blowing up alliances, which you're arguing is her wincondition.

She also is a roleblocker that never Roleblocked me? Cmon man.

Titus: stop it. You know full well that Cerb asks questions until he's satisfied, and I've never seen anyone else on this site or any other who is as thorough as he is when he's trying to figure something out. I told you flat out that I don't believe the claim is likely to be true (and gave my reasoning) and then I took it a step further and added more to the case against her by pointing out that Cerb extended an olive branch and I believe that if Farside were being honest, she would have engaged with that. She didn't. That doesn't strike me as anything close to town. All I see is trying to avoid saying the wrong thing and trying to survive, to the point that she went from neck and neck for most poss with you yesterday to basically disappearing today while other wagons have been proposed.

What does town do when they are under pressure? Engage, give thoughts and feedback, and if the mislynch is inevitible, info dump as much of their thoughts and reasoning as possible in case they happen to be in a game with someone who goes back and looks at that kind of thing. Can anyone claim there's any evidence at all of that coming from Farside?

Now, I do have a couple questions: What is this 12 points towards stopping the scum event that is set to explode tomorrow thing you referenced? Where did Farside claim to have a roleblock and to have blocked Grapes when everyone but us were told to hold actions to try and stop the event? I have been keeping up and I don't have either of those things in my notes.

~Drixx

P.S. - I'm not an attorney. Defense or otherwise. This you know.

Son of a bitch. Picking up the slip.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

The first thing is a logical conclusion. If The alliance event stayed, it functioned as an alliance. The mod said if all alliance members withhold, it's worth three instead of one. If all the members were town and withheld acting, we would have little to worry about with the event.

As for the grapes issue, look when I cross examined Farside (and that's what I was doing). I accused her of roleblocking me, which made sense based on her claims. Then she claimed it was on grapes. Then I hit her with my action failing. I will grab it.

The defense attorney comment is not meant literally but figuratively.

The points thing totally makes sense now. Yeah umm; that is kinda damning. There was never really any cogent reason I could see for disbanding that large alliance, especially given the benefits it gave which were confirmed by multiple people. I think that it didn't occur to me because of the order of events. The scum event wasn't announced until after she did that. Stupid logical error on my part. Temporal order neither implies nor precludes causation.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

is there a reason were not claiming what the gem win condition is?

I know it. If I die, then they can be forced to claim.

Are you sure? I wonder if you got told the same thing we did.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

What do you think of Farside now? We'll talk more about how to handle what I was doing post game.

You're referring to this question? You asked me what I thought of her after her late ascetic claim? I already addressed that, even if the post wasn't specifically addressed to you? Like, the specific point you cared about right there was meaningless. Once the game has a bunch of ascetic claims, auto-lynching based on someones ascetic claim becomes stupid.

So..yeah. I've also already said, in my ISO, the reasons why farside makes sense as scum, and why her actions don't make sense as scum.

What exactly do you want from me here?

-Cerb

You to take a stance.

I don't like how you're oversimplifying things and forgetting about your earlier stance. I am NOT wanting to lynch Farside solely because she claimed ascetic.

You yourself said that any negative utility roles would be lynched if they failed to claim. Yet here, you're not wanting to lynch Farside because she also claimed third party with it.

Second, you ignore that Farside never went after DGB or klingon or Math. There has been a pattern so far between the millers and ascetics. No two share the same alignment or restrictions.

You're acting as if because some negative utility claimers claimed early, there's a built in excuse not to lynch Farside.

There's the terrible reaction to the SirCakez wagon. She tries to deflect not going back to vote Cakey because she was trying to work with Almost50, yet she destroyed his event's utility.

There's a scum event that if everyone happened to forgo their ability in an alliance that would net town something like 12 points, even after we lynched SirCakez (assuming Farside was town). That is pretty convienent for scum.

Farside allegedly tried to roleblock grapes when acting could murder us all.

She's tried to make things personal repeatedly.

She's doubtcasted town all game.

So yeah, go ahead and try to say this is just about claiming ascetic, even though that alone is worth lynching her for given the total lack of sorting on DGB or Klingon.

Here's a stance: Cerberus and I are both far more tolerant of 3rd parties than 99.9% of the people on the site. We also care way more about getting it right than anything else.

My personal view? Farside has basically claimed almost exactly what I altered the fake claim I inherited in SMITE into. Like ... I personally find it basically not believable that Varsoon went and read that monstrous game and pulled out my fake claims and turned it into a role, or that he just happened to make exactly that role. I don't see any reason to fight you on this, but I'm not going to tell Cerb to just STFU so you'll like us.

The bottom line for me is this: We asked Farside to leash to town wincon by never allying again and (obviously) having nobody target. That means no more points which means the claimed "get enough points and I win and exit the game" wincon is off the table. I don't see why, if the claim was honest, Farside wouldn't agree to that readily. Being unreasonable with you I can understand, after the mess of crap yesterday. Being unwilling to engage with us strikes me as off. I think an honest Farside would have engaged and bent over backwards to work with us.

So I think we're looking at something dishonest about Farside. My supposition would be that she suspected Cerb's friendly engagement was a trap.

You know Farside way better than us. Does that line up with her personality?

~Drixx

You want to link the fake claim from smite that you claimed I'd read that clogged up game all the way through, which I didn't, and used something you used.
That mine was so far proven, was yours proven?

Cough said I'd vote snarky, cough.
But here is a real question, why should I work with someone not voting anyone demanding I use my ability to its fullest? How is it town to me the player voting the majority for vCa?

Because according to your claim it would

force

you to play your hardest to achieve the town wincon, instead of hoarding points towards an unknown target number of points which lets you become a third party and automatically win. Ideally you then demonstrate actual working for town wincon, and if the game goes long enough you take your death and hope you did enough. Also ... what purpose does it serve to note that you'll vote someone else? You've made it super apparent you want to live more than anything else... which is a big part of why you're being pushed.

If you REALLY want to wade through SMITE, you're quite welcome (Click my username, click view my topics, ctrl+f to find and you should find it on the 2nd page. My ISO isn't huge or anything), but I can summarize:

1.) I inherited a fake 3p claim as scum when I replaced into the game on day 2.
2.) The primary skill I had allowed me to mark someone at night. This had already been demonstrated because Mastin was in a hood with me and was a goo spreader who could cop anyone who had goo, and I spread goo without my target dying.
3.) The fake wincon I claimed was if I had 10 marked players alive, I could exit with a standalone victory. The actual usage of my marks was much more mundane: I could use them for extra votes a couple of different ways.
4.) The SECOND fake wincon I claimed was that IF I could use a long recharge ability (I played up the long recharge to make it seem like I could do this only once so I wouldn't be made to prove I could do it) to finish off someone's wagon from wherever to kill them.

The only variation is that if I finished off a wagon and it was against scum, I got to win with town. This played into that particular game's mechanics where people had 1-shot or really long recharge abilities based upon the "Ultimate" abilities of their characters from SMITE which is a MOBA game, similar to DOTA or League of Legends, only played from an MMO perspective.


Now here's the million dollar question: Why are you even bothered by this? If your claim is true you can simply say "nope" if we try to lynch you.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Nah I don't want to lynch Fire unless he's still wrong after we flip a few more.

I think RR, Creature, Farside, Skybird, Shadow. Thoughts?

TRR I'm coming around to - there is a level of holes in their logic that make me think they are playing a very competent scum game otherwise. Top of my mind - their reason for clearing Farside with "Varsoon took my fake-claim from this game and made it a role" when it is just a like that Varsoon could have just taken that fake-claim and made a fake-claim with it. The fact they don't even consider that in their analysis is troubling.

I am the only one who mentioned my play in SMITE, and I certainly didn't attempt to clear Farside with it. Just the opposite. I find it very unlikely that Varsoon decided he had spare time between designing all these epic games he runs to go read a 12,000 post (plus another 10k+ posts in hoods) game and saw my fake claim and decided to make a role out of it. I'm not even sure I can assign a probability high enough to be a proper integer to that. Possible? Anything is technically possible. Probable? Fuck no.

I get that it sucks you are part of a third party faction whose leader may or may not have lied about their wincon and we're the slot who figured out you even existed and is pushing the inconsistencies, but just making shit up is never going to get past us. All you're doing is adding to the paranoia. The one slot that's bothering to question your third party self aligned faction, and you're literally making shit up to throw shade on us. That's supposed to be a co-incidence?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I think there is 5 days left of the game day, will be longer if I'm lynched, some players agree with reads and some could be scum.

And this is reason number to to lynch farside. If she's telling the truth it gives us more time to consolidate on a second best lynch.

Anyone who believes farside has zero reason to not lynch her because believing her means that you believe she will not be lynched and the day will continue at the only potential cost of her ability to go 3rd Party at the expense of Town.

So there is no Town downside to calling her bluff.

Stop stealing my shit. Also, stop interfering with questions I've leveled at other players. You just torpedoed the shit out of a question I aimed at farside that had utility based upon how she answered it. Why?

I don't oppose a third party lynch, but it makes much less sense for farside22 to be scum.

How does it make less sense? Walk us through it, please.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

wait, far claimed that if we lynch her the only thing that will happen is tat she will lose her 3p way of winning?

I think she just said she can reset the votes and extend the day. Where did she say she had to give up her 3p way to win?

How does it make less sense? Walk us through it, please.

Not Chara voted herself (+3 votes)
farside22 voted Not Chara in an alliance (+2 votes)
Total: 5 votes

The same mentioned in the Beach-a-palooza results.

blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah

There's a whole gigantic list of people who claimed that they didn't vote or that they voted for people who weren't listed. Go read the vote rules again and you'll see how that doesn't actually clear her. It looks even worse because Not Chara confirmed a bunch of things that make Farside look bad:

1.) It was Farside's idea for them to vote Not Chara (when there was a plan in thread to vote Mastin and Titus had popped IC

AND

it was clear we wanted to use the event to try and find scum. Having votes split across 3 slots made that much more difficult)
2.) It was Farside's idea to push the idea that the 5 points meant they were both conftown.
3.) Farside actually tried to push that idea out early in the day.

Anything else?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR By the way, you promised you wouldn't try to lynch us no matter what you see, and the moment the flip occurred, you went back on that immediately.

Pushing you to explain things that contradict earlier things you said is not pushing to lynch you. You said that the win con would be redacted (and implied that it wasn't your choice) and that's why you were afraid to let the flip happen. That obviously raises questions about whether this is a Humans vs. Bad Gems vs. Less Bad Gems game or if the Less Bad Gems are on our side. You said the other things redacted in the flip were only the effects of fusing with various other gems, but that wasn't true either: there were abilities that were redacted and some that weren't. It looks very much like someone decided what to reveal selectively.

Questions are not the same thing at all as trying to lynch. First: while it's possible for Varsoon to make the main "good" character bad (See: Space Dandy), it seems really unlikely in this particular theme. Unlikely is not the same as impossible. So yeah ... we have questions. Wouldn't you if the situation was reversed?

[Reasonably Rational]

Magna it's weird how you're using that game as benchmark to read fire off of

That because he is scum painting a picture that suits his needs.

MoI is outed as a member of the Crystal Gems faction. Are you saying you think they're anti-town, or did you just miss that he's in that group?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@Mastina / @Titus:

Can we please drop the "I think" and only use the "I know"?? It's really getting to me that each of you has her own "couple of players" she insists on being Town for no apparent reason. Well, not one that I can see anyway.

Creature is not clear to me, nor to Titus it appears. Mastina prefers to think he's clear, or leaning so. WHY?

Doubt is still being casted on Skybird for no apparent reason it seems, despite Yume basically confirming her identity.

In my owm small world, there's only a handful (actually TWO hands-full) of players I've managed to deduce their flavour. I still don't know who Pearl is. I have a couple of candidates, but Creature isn't one of them.

RR is also being suspected for no reason at all, except maybe paranoia.

Defense of FB's poor play and mudslinging towards conf!Town is weird. The fact Kling flipped and we're still letting DGB live is sickening. And so on, and so on.

Now, please: If you have INFO; SHARE IT! If you don't, then don't give me false signs of someone's guilt/innocence. Sheeping doesn't -at all- feel good to me unless I do have an idea of what we're going for/against.

Thank you.

OK, I will answer the parts directed at me.

1) RR had an all likely town wagon on them day 2.
2) RR didn't vote SirCakez until they had to. I basically forced them into it in the hood.
3) RR has abandoned his prior statements of all late negative utility claimers get lynched.
4) The beach votes suggest someone intelligent and saavy about vote analysis as scum.

The doubt on Skybird is real due to the lack of scumhunting, and I feel Yume is being lied to.

I think Creature is scum.

1.) That wagon happened in the first few hours of the day and consisted of Mastin going "Do my bidding" and a bunch of people sheeping on before sanity could set in.

2.) Umm... I was in fucking JAIL when that happened. You (and everyone who has EVER played with him) know that Cerberus asks questions until he's sure of things. Prior to me being unavailable (for reasons you are well aware of), I voted SC, and it was LONG before you said shit in the PT. It was after Cerb went through his ISO. I made the general comment that SC's response was basically "I give up", without giving any specifics (that's what we call a reaction test in the land of the non-moon-logic) and SC came back and flailed hard for me saying that. I then voted him. I think got arrested for something stupid (Again: something you are well aware of). Then it got revealed that SC was providing significant bonuses to a bunch of people. Then Cerb asked questions to clarify the claim and see if it could be corroborated since SC was in two alliances, because that's what Cerb fucking does. Neither of us are sheep, and when I read through the last part of day one that I was not present during, I found it quite reasonable to say "hang on a sec, let's check this out" and ask questions,

especially

in light of what still looks to me like a staged fight between SC and Farside which resulted in Farside blowing up the joy ride alliance.

3.) We haven't abandoned shit. I've been building the case against Farside basically non stop. The problem is that you just want me to look at only the negative and not consider anything that might be on the other side of the scales. I'm sorry but I don't work that way, and neither does Cerb. We consider the totality of things. At this point, even taking away the joy ride points thing because apparently the joy ride would have expired (I was under the impression it would stay going and Farside breaking it up was a huge deal, but someone said that it would have ended and thus could not have contributed 12 points), a rational analysis of Farside has like 10x the weight on the scum side than on the not scum side. There's some small reasons for reservations, but nothing that has caused either of us to say we disagree.

3a.) Furthermore, you have two REALLY good reasons to realize why Farside isn't the right lynch today. One of them is public info: she can just say "nope" and reset things and says she gains points out of it. So sure, we could run her up just to prove that. Or you could take into account what you know that most others don't and put 2 and 2 together.

4.) LOL. Did you just suggest we're scum because VCA when we both reject VCA? Large scale trends and probabilities don't apply to individual situations. If there's any value in VCA, it's in psychologically reading people, and that's not our thing. I do agree with you that it looks like someone went to some effort to hinder our event from doing as much PoE as it could have. It's right there with that 3rd place person with 5 points. Whose idea was it to vote Not Chara again? Oh yeah ... Farside.


I really don't want to repeat SD2, so I'm just going to tell you that you're pissing me off with your bullshit misrepresentation and you need to stop it before it escalates. I'm sitting here carefully building an irrefutable case against Farside (See: things like me getting Not Chara to tell us whose idea it was to vote for her, which is the primary thing that gave scum cover to claim fake votes or not having voted). You, on the other hand, apparently have missed all those posts but somehow managed to read the sentence here or there where I acknowledged there are some reasons to be less than absolutely sure. How the fuck does that happen? The ratio of me making a case against farside compared to me admitting there are small reasons to doubt is like 10:1, at least.

Holy fuck Titus. Get your shit together.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@Almost, He told me is role was similar but weaker to my role in Suikoden. There I basically lied to the scum about anonymous voting and tested my theory by seeing who acted crazy with the lights out.

Here, RR's vote creates wagons to analyze.

My confirming did not cause people to no vote or change the winner at all. People did not say as much, nor did my confirmation spur town to read. It just proved which players are NOT reading and or scum and that scum knew they could hide. More players voting Mastina doesn't cause Derp voters to vote.

RR didn't confirm flavor to me.

I asked Yume whether Varsoon told her Skybird was Connie. She repeatedly said no, both here and in my PT.

You never asked our flavor as far as I saw. See Varsoon's warning about flavor claiming. You should know who we are via Yume. We both really need to be alive for the finale alliance. There's things that need discussing. Please read my prior post and if Farside really can say "nope" to lynch, realize the thing you're forgetting because that's the entire reason Cerberus was willing to let Farside off the hook today.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Which alliance should I join? Xkfyu/Shadow_step or Skybird/TheFuzzylogic99?

Either Creature? I think Titus' suggested alliances had you with skybird and fuzzy, , sorta depends on what your goal is?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Drixx: *whose idea it was to vote for it, not her.

I'm so sorry. I've been really good about it all game too. Please know it's not intentional; I work with languages and the short "a" sound to end a name is so overwhelmingly feminine across so many languages that it's just defaulted. I'm sorry I didn't think clearly about it.

You'll still die?

Nope.

Welcome to day 3 part 2.
I hope you enjoyed part one.
Please keep your hands in the vehicle at all times as we come back to no votes on anyone.

@Mastina / @Titus:

Can we please drop the "I think" and only use the "I know"?? It's really getting to me that each of you has her own "couple of players" she insists on being Town for no apparent reason. Well, not one that I can see anyway.

Creature is not clear to me, nor to Titus it appears. Mastina prefers to think he's clear, or leaning so. WHY?

Doubt is still being casted on Skybird for no apparent reason it seems, despite Yume basically confirming her identity.

In my owm small world, there's only a handful (actually TWO hands-full) of players I've managed to deduce their flavour. I still don't know who Pearl is. I have a couple of candidates, but Creature isn't one of them.

RR is also being suspected for no reason at all, except maybe paranoia.

Defense of FB's poor play and mudslinging towards conf!Town is weird. The fact Kling flipped and we're still letting DGB live is sickening. And so on, and so on.

Now, please: If you have INFO; SHARE IT! If you don't, then don't give me false signs of someone's guilt/innocence. Sheeping doesn't -at all- feel good to me unless I do have an idea of what we're going for/against.

Thank you.

OK, I will answer the parts directed at me.

1) RR had an all likely town wagon on them day 2.
2) RR didn't vote SirCakez until they had to. I basically forced them into it in the hood.
3) RR has abandoned his prior statements of all late negative utility claimers get lynched.
4) The beach votes suggest someone intelligent and saavy about vote analysis as scum.

The doubt on Skybird is real due to the lack of scumhunting, and I feel Yume is being lied to.

I think Creature is scum.

1.) That wagon happened in the first few hours of the day and consisted of Mastin going "Do my bidding" and a bunch of people sheeping on before sanity could set in.

2.) Umm... I was in fucking JAIL when that happened. You (and everyone who has EVER played with him) know that Cerberus asks questions until he's sure of things. Prior to me being unavailable (for reasons you are well aware of), I voted SC, and it was LONG before you said shit in the PT. It was after Cerb went through his ISO. I made the general comment that SC's response was basically "I give up", without giving any specifics (that's what we call a reaction test in the land of the non-moon-logic) and SC came back and flailed hard for me saying that. I then voted him. I think got arrested for something stupid (Again: something you are well aware of). Then it got revealed that SC was providing significant bonuses to a bunch of people. Then Cerb asked questions to clarify the claim and see if it could be corroborated since SC was in two alliances, because that's what Cerb fucking does. Neither of us are sheep, and when I read through the last part of day one that I was not present during, I found it quite reasonable to say "hang on a sec, let's check this out" and ask questions,

especially

in light of what still looks to me like a staged fight between SC and Farside which resulted in Farside blowing up the joy ride alliance.

3.) We haven't abandoned shit. I've been building the case against Farside basically non stop. The problem is that you just want me to look at only the negative and not consider anything that might be on the other side of the scales. I'm sorry but I don't work that way, and neither does Cerb. We consider the totality of things. At this point, even taking away the joy ride points thing because apparently the joy ride would have expired (I was under the impression it would stay going and Farside breaking it up was a huge deal, but someone said that it would have ended and thus could not have contributed 12 points), a rational analysis of Farside has like 10x the weight on the scum side than on the not scum side. There's some small reasons for reservations, but nothing that has caused either of us to say we disagree.

3a.) Furthermore, you have two REALLY good reasons to realize why Farside isn't the right lynch today. One of them is public info: she can just say "nope" and reset things and says she gains points out of it. So sure, we could run her up just to prove that. Or you could take into account what you know that most others don't and put 2 and 2 together.

4.) LOL. Did you just suggest we're scum because VCA when we both reject VCA? Large scale trends and probabilities don't apply to individual situations. If there's any value in VCA, it's in psychologically reading people, and that's not our thing. I do agree with you that it looks like someone went to some effort to hinder our event from doing as much PoE as it could have. It's right there with that 3rd place person with 5 points. Whose idea was it to vote Not Chara again? Oh yeah ... Farside.


I really don't want to repeat SD2, so I'm just going to tell you that you're pissing me off with your bullshit misrepresentation and you need to stop it before it escalates. I'm sitting here carefully building an irrefutable case against Farside (See: things like me getting Not Chara to tell us whose idea it was to vote for her, which is the primary thing that gave scum cover to claim fake votes or not having voted). You, on the other hand, apparently have missed all those posts but somehow managed to read the sentence here or there where I acknowledged there are some reasons to be less than absolutely sure. How the fuck does that happen? The ratio of me making a case against farside compared to me admitting there are small reasons to doubt is like 10:1, at least.

Holy fuck Titus. Get your shit together.

~Drixx

I've have never seen a player call me scummy for vague reasoning and then say I'm possibly telling the truth in such a way that my head just went Wtf is this shit.

There's nothing vague about the scummy things I've pointed out in assembling a case against you. I've gone into quite some detail, in fact.

You have acted objectively scummy. You knew the Beach-a-palooza event was specifically intended to be used for PoE by conftowns (including Titus who freaking popped IC). There's absolutely no reason for you to have done that except to advance the idea that the point total made you "conftown", except you've already admitted you aren't town after your attempt to say the points made you conftown got blown up.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

@Cerb, I have already promised to not vote Farside but my town read if Farside survives which PAINS me to do.

We can sort out my replies to your wall in there.

Yume has not told me your flavor.

Yume has our permission to pass along who we are.

[Reasonably Rational]

farside, what i mean is it doesn't look like Rational is fence-sitting. that post is a very explicit 'farside is scum'.

Thank you. I was getting ready to pull out the "Repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it" quote.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, I was arguably fence sitting, but it was EXTREMELY deliberate, because I refused to give her more points towards her win con when I'm aware of things which may assist in dealing with her situation , AND because if the lynch pushed her over the threshold for her win....then it's the same as if we just mislynched, except we DO get another try if she wasn't lying...but we're that much closer to losing.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh right

"that makes me conftown"
"but im actually third party lol"

Yeah ... that particular point I thought was really funny. I was trying to keep my post serious though. Like ... you have to admit that Farside has some big cajones.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Titus. You won't need a gun. You know why. Slow down and think.

Also, and I'm sorry I didn't ask this before because it seems painfully obvious now: are the crystal gems all MOD CONFIRMED to one another, or is there a possibility of a corrupt gem in that mix?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, I was arguably fence sitting, but it was EXTREMELY deliberate, because I refused to give her more points towards her win con when I'm aware of things which may assist in dealing with her situation , AND because if the lynch pushed her over the threshold for her win....then it's the same as if we just mislynched, except we DO get another try if she wasn't lying...but we're that much closer to losing.

-Cerb

This is why I look at you as fence sitting.
You just said you have all these reasons you think I'm scum but I could tell the truth and be going for 3rd party win for points.
You can't have both here.

You don't seem to understand. The reasons for thinking you're scum are IRRELEVANT to optimal mechanical play, which is what my reservation is based on. If we're(well, mostly Drixx, he has a much stronger belief in you as scum, I still don't know why you would even bother with the 3p part of your claim given the sites attitude towards 3p, combined with the fact that the leaders of this game are well aware of town being burned by a 3p in a relatively recent game) wrong, then the BEST CASE scenario is us effectively feeding scum a kill. The worst case is you can endgame us all or something.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

farside, what i mean is it doesn't look like Rational is fence-sitting. that post is a very explicit 'farside is scum'.

If he thought I was scum he should vote for me.

I was waiting for exactly what A50 was and the votes came in while I was composing a post. Else I would have done the hammer vote to deny you the self-hammer you professed wanting. I totally have an "It's Hammer Time" MC-Hammer image in my photobucket I was going to use and everything.

Oh right

"that makes me conftown"
"but im actually third party lol"

HI.
I'm town.
I get so many point I then become 3rd party.
Welcome to the game.
May I take your order?

You have acted objectively scummy. You knew the Beach-a-palooza event was specifically intended to be used for PoE by conftowns (including Titus who freaking popped IC). There's absolutely no reason for you to have done that except to advance the idea that the point total made you "conftown", except you've already admitted you aren't town after your attempt to say the points made you conftown got blown up.

It's the only thing you've repeatedly brought up as an issue and I already asked if you believe that I did it for manipulation purposes why are you not scum hunting those who didn't vote the top 3????

I find it amusing that you pretend you don't already know that we will literally generate 2-3 novels worth of discussion in our hydra PT. You either are observant and see how we respond to people and who we're watching, or you can see when we're reasonably sure and we bring out the case. We didn't say a word about the 3rd party faction until we were sure; then we told the game about it (and got laughed at, basically).

Like; we're kind of hip deep in people who are scummy and need rope too.

There's you, and I've gone to great lengths to outline why you're likely scum. Then there's DGB who, now that we have seen the parts of KC's flip that we have, is almost certainly actually exactly what she claimed to KC, and needs to be roped.

Then there's... well, no need to share that just yet.

What possible motive is there for us to tell other scumspects who aren't going to get roped today that we're already looking at them? It's much more effective to come in and plop down a case for someone being scum when they've boxed themselves in and we're really sure. (See: SU1 and Titus' "slip" and the amount of time we spent in private working it out before we even so much as hinted at distrusting the slot).

But you didn't ask the question because you don't know how we work, did you? You asked the question because you're trying to survive and in order to do that you need to discredit us so my points against you get disregarded.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I actually don't understand why, if we were willing to lynch her once, we wouldn't lynch her again.

Also, farside, are you going to use your power on snarky still, as you said you would before?

@Magna: are you experienced with Drixx? I believe no. The simple fact that *nobody* in this game full of people who know us has questioned the tone of any of the posts made by either head should tell you that the authoritative attitude comes naturally to us. We tend to believe that it is highly unlikely anyone else(who plays mafia at least) will have better results from a strictly analytical perspective with any given set of information, which means we have to tell people what to do.

There is no "dichotomy" between our position regarding third parties and our stance regarding your faction.

We DELIBERATELY housed our reveal yesterday in pro-gem terms.
We advised Yume to NOT tell the town that she was 3p/to not just share that information freely, BECAUSE we know the site meta involves killing 3p on sight.

It was only today, when mastin revealed that she and Yume DID NOT possess the same information, and Yume undertook a distinctly anti-town (though possibly pro-gem) stance regarding flipping klingon, that I was forced to press her to reconcile those actions with her stated pro-town win condition.

It was the CONTRADICTION between her stated goal and her actions that caused a problem for me, NOT the fact that she is third party. That's irrelevant.

Why would a large pro-town third party require that we adjust the expected ratio of scum? Why would a large NEUTRAL third party require that we adjust it? Only if the third party is actively working to KILL town should they have any effect on balance. If the scum team is working to kill town, and the gems are working towards some other goal that they can achieve without town winning, the scum count shouldn't change. It will still require the same number of town deaths for a scum victory, and that's what matters.

I don't believe the gems as a whole are anti-town in the standard sense, but I see no reason why they couldn't attain their goal without the town sharing in the victory.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

(Other than flavor of course)

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Because we need to kill scum to win?

So you say, but we ONLY HAVE YOUR WORD FOR IT.

Your win con not flipping is really shitty if Varsoon really designed it that way.

Of course, the fact that your win con doesn't flip IS weak evidence that you actually ARE designed as an X person masonry, because without the automatic clearing of other members that comes from a pro-town win con, the strength of said masonry is notably reduced...but that doesn't make it impossible for you to be working towards your own ends.

I mean hell, flavorwise, maybe all you guys need to do to win is remove jaspar, and recruit lapis/peridot/bismuth. That would put your win con aligned with town assuming jaspar is the traitor, while still allowing you to win through some other means the removing ALL the scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, my previous point regarding balance only applies if a theoretical gem but not town victory would end the game. If the game would continue, but the gems are removed or something, there would obviously need to be balance of some sort(unless as a side effect of attaining their goals, x scum are killed or something).

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well sure. Valid point.

When did you tell Titus about Peridot, and WHY did you tell the thread? Titus seemed completely unaware of the second 3p possibility when I first broached the subject.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

And when?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Logical Alliance:	Titus	Reasonably Rational	Shiro	Baking Cookies that melt your heart.
Stephen's Angels:	Yume	Magna of Illusion	Almost50	Preventing the illusion of complacency when almost there.
X marks the random spot	Xfkyu	Shadow_Step	randomidget*	Taking shadowy steps to win
Not Charring Alive*	Not Chara	McMenno	grapes	Titus's recommended alliance of win.
Shooting for the Sky*	Skybird	Creature	FuzzyLogic	Experimenting with interesting combinations
Assembling the Truth Squad*	Mastin2	Firebringer	Kraskaesque	Progressing forward without teeth.
The remainders*	Snarky	DGB	twie	Creating a unified position

Everything with a * is my recommendation.

How accurate is this? We want DGB+TWIE to continue their alliance tomorrow, assuming a snarky lynch here? We don't want farside allied with anyone, right?

Why is mastin with kraska? She doesn't want her buff to be shared with scum reads, and she's scumreading kraska.

Random, do you object?
NC/McMenno/grapes, you all agreed right? I believe I saw that?
Skybird/Creature/Fuzzy?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well we don't want to give farside "points" if we can avoid it, which means we don't want her to be in any alliance, unless it's one that would somehow hobble her.


-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Varsoon: Please clarify how season finale alliances will work. Do all members involved need to submit the other two members names? If one of the members doesn't, does that mean no alliance will form?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Can we please keep snarky away from halfway to lynch until we're 100% the alliances are worked out? I'm pretty sure everyone involved has to be in accord, so I don't want peoples alliances to get fucked up because one member didn't understand what they had to do.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

yes we agree, farside could go with kraska/fb if they want

This is where I'm going.
Rr: if all I was going to do was get into an alliance and blow it up for points, i'd done it with sky and nc.

Farside, if you want there to be ANY chance you don't die tomorrow, we need you to claim details about this point thing.

How many you have.
How many you gain from lynch attempts.
How many you gain from being targeted.
How many you gain from dissolving alliances.
How many you need in order to achieve your win con.
How rhe extra voting thing works/what it costs you in points.

The reason why we can't trust you to not blow up an alliance is the fact that we don't know how far away from your win con you are now. Maybe the extra points weren't worth it then, but they're worth it now because you'll achieve your win con.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hi mastin, farside lynch already happened and is tomorrow's battle to fight, your proposed lynch is being propelled forward, please look at the alliances situation and figure out where you're going to fit in.
-Cerb

Pedit: good to know DGB. So that whole bit needs to be reworked then.

[Reasonably Rational]

@Farside: why would I accuse you of lying? That number is high enough that 1) you can lynch someone by yourself, barring a restriction saying you can't lynch without someone else on the wagon, 2) you're close enough to your win condition that putting you in an alliance tomorrow would potentially put you 3 points away.

Basically, its a bad number for you to claim if you want people to leave you alive, so it's more likely to be true imo.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

So me/menno/fire then yea?

You townreading him? Cause I have him as null.

Why is McMenno town, besides the vca stuff? I just went to go look at his ISO but he has the sort of iso I hate to read, with a bunch of one line comments with no context that just make it a pain to analyze.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

anyone targeting me will be told they were RB by me.

My role PM doesn't say that

You're confscum thanks

How does this follow?

What do you mean about TWIE? He doesn't say much at all in my experience, so how is him not being forthcoming with you meaningful?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Varsoon: Please clarify how season finale alliances will work. Do all members involved need to submit the other two members names? If one of the members doesn't, does that mean no alliance will form?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I believe mastin has a neighborhood with Yume, and that as a result of that hood being created yume learned mastin was town, and mastin learned Yume was Steven.

That doesn't sound like a masonry to me, and it actually can't be a masonry, since mastin is not aware, via mod confirmation, of Yume's win condition.

Mastin remains confirmed town, however, because the only way she isn't is if she IS indeed a gem with Yume and all her misunderstandings amd claims of certainty about aspects of the setup which are demonstrably false was a ploy to be considered confirmed town(or in a even more unlikely scenario, if she and Yume are scum together, which is even less plausible)

The problem with THAT line of reasoning, though, is that as a third party, she doesn't want scum to think she's confirmed town, or she'll get killed. It's a lot of work for a complex play that is simply bad, and mastin isn't bad.

You are right though, in that our goal with regards to the crystal gems has been to ensure that town isn't complacent and doesn't make stupid assumptions with no mechanical suppprt for said assumptions. You call it "making sure the status of the Crystal Gems is aa muddled as possible", I call it not letting town be the type of stupid I've come to expect from towns if you don't hold their hands.

Also, circling back to that first post...there WAS a contradiction . When I get home I'll go find the posts, but you could do it yourself if you'd like. Just ISO mastin and Yume together, and see what they both have to say about the causes of firebringer removal, amd klingon's death. The explanation for said contradiction was underwhelming and unsubstantiated.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Cerb, There is no more contradiction there than with the third party analysis.

Yume just never claimed to Mastina.

And that's the problem.

You're given a PT with a very good player and told she's town by the mod, and you DON'T tell her everything she should know? You don't work to coordinate and plan with her?

There's no reason to conceal that information that fits with the behavior of someone who wins with the town.

The only argument that MIGHT hold water with some is that Yume misplayed, but I know she doesn't LIKE keeping secrets, and am pretty sure she would have been overjoyed to be able to share what she knew with Mastin if doing so was guaranteed to help her achiever her win con.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

No, titus.

It's not.

Mastin did not make thst statement until DAY 2!!!

There was PLENTY of time before that to tell her things.

@MoI: it's only in LYLO that such protections against a single slot lynching someone that such protections exist.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I believe mastin has a neighborhood with Yume, and that as a result of that hood being created yume learned mastin was town, and mastin learned Yume was Steven.

That doesn't sound like a masonry to me, and it actually can't be a masonry, since mastin is not aware, via mod confirmation, of Yume's win condition.

Mastin disagrees with you …

It's NOT an alliance.

It's a masonry.

It does not count as an alliance.
It does not function in any way shape nor form as an alliance.
Hell.
Even the topic we have doesn't work like an alliance, thanks to being active full-time, day and night.

Go back to mastins earlier statements.

She did not declare Yume conftown, AND she did not declare it a masonry, until AFTER people started calling it that.

It's not a masonry. 100%. Mastin was not told "Yume is town", therefore it is not a masonry. Mastin BELIEVES that Yume's flavor MUST be town aligned, so she assigns a town designation to the slot, but I am absolutely certain that there is no message from the moderator telling mastin that Yume wins the game the same way she does.

Stop arguing this point. You're not going to win because I'm right.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Titus, stop being obstinate.

It does not require lies on the part of the moderator for steven to have a separate win condition from town.

Telling everyone who knows that Yume is Steven just tells you flavor, not anything about the setup.

You're making assumptions BASED on flavor for the setup.

Stop it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It is

probable

(imo, and I think Cerb would agree) that the Crystal Gems are compatible with us. It is not something that we

know

by any stretch, nor is it something we have enough information TO know. There are other possibilities that could be in play here. Varsoon delights in coming up with new things and seeing how those new things impact the play and rhetoric of mafia. Most of you in the game have to admit that it's distinctly possible that this game is a three way brawl where each faction has its own win condition. We would be making less of an issue of ensuring that people are AWARE of this possibility if things had played out differently. Assuming the wincon for the CGs is what Yume told us it is, then there were a whole bunch of moves made that just served to make it harder to take that at face value.

I would best describe my current mindset as warily trusting. I think the flavor of the show argues for the Gems (really Steven moreso than the gems) being protective of humans and Earth; however, the flavor of the show also deals with the idea of the homeworld gems vs. the crystal gems and the collateral damage caused by their conflict, and if THAT is the particular angle this game is focusing on, then things may not be as they have been claimed.

Pointing out a possibility and saying keep it in mind is prudent. We're being prudent. I'm really quite sorry if the CG wincon is what we were told and anything we've said has offended someone who was assigned to that faction this game, but that's mafia. If you aren't actually sharing my wincon, then your wincon is secondary to me until I know, FOR SURE, that you winning doesn't mean I lose. And given that people were talking about members of a THIRD PARTY FACTION with terms like "conftown", it's prudent to point out that they may not actually be.

Can we just leave it at that? We lack the necessary hard information to really take this discussion any further. I mean ... if you guys have a different win con and feel like you want to just come clean, that would certainly let us all know where we stand relative to one another. But ... if you have the wincon we were told, we can't know that for sure until we see. If your wincon is not compatible to ours, you have every reason to hide that fact and so we come back to Prudence. We're simply being prudent.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

So any objects to snarky lynch today?
He didn't claim when I asked.
I did make a promise for that lynch to happen so......?
Speak now because I feel in my bones he's scum here.

Please don't unilaterally end the day just yet. Cerb and I are talking and we will be info dumping our thoughts to A50. Will give you the all clear if it's your intent to just do it for whatever reason (I assume because the game has slowed to a crawl and you want to just get on with it?).

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@Cerb do you townread DGB?

Is this specifically for Cerb or have you taken up the habit of a couple of others and call both of us Cerb?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

It is

probable

(imo, and I think Cerb would agree) that the Crystal Gems are compatible with us. It is not something that we

know

by any stretch, nor is it something we have enough information TO know. There are other possibilities that could be in play here. Varsoon delights in coming up with new things and seeing how those new things impact the play and rhetoric of mafia. Most of you in the game have to admit that it's distinctly possible that this game is a three way brawl where each faction has its own win condition. We would be making less of an issue of ensuring that people are AWARE of this possibility if things had played out differently. Assuming the wincon for the CGs is what Yume told us it is, then there were a whole bunch of moves made that just served to make it harder to take that at face value.

I would best describe my current mindset as warily trusting. I think the flavor of the show argues for the Gems (really Steven moreso than the gems) being protective of humans and Earth; however, the flavor of the show also deals with the idea of the homeworld gems vs. the crystal gems and the collateral damage caused by their conflict, and if THAT is the particular angle this game is focusing on, then things may not be as they have been claimed.

Pointing out a possibility and saying keep it in mind is prudent. We're being prudent. I'm really quite sorry if the CG wincon is what we were told and anything we've said has offended someone who was assigned to that faction this game, but that's mafia. If you aren't actually sharing my wincon, then your wincon is secondary to me until I know, FOR SURE, that you winning doesn't mean I lose. And given that people were talking about members of a THIRD PARTY FACTION with terms like "conftown", it's prudent to point out that they may not actually be.

Can we just leave it at that? We lack the necessary hard information to really take this discussion any further. I mean ... if you guys have a different win con and feel like you want to just come clean, that would certainly let us all know where we stand relative to one another. But ... if you have the wincon we were told, we can't know that for sure until we see. If your wincon is not compatible to ours, you have every reason to hide that fact and so we come back to Prudence. We're simply being prudent.

~Drixx

Thanks for this overly word explanation that can be generically summed up as saying "We are playing Mafia, we can't see your Role Pms".

The irony is that you were earlier selling my suspicion of you with "OMGUS" when this is exactly why I have questions and some concerns about your slot. I see posting that doesn't to me ring true and a massive focus on what you are selling as "being prudent". I can't see your Role PM and am not going to "just take your word for it". Thus you are in my suspicion pool.

Okay then; we can sniff each other's asses until we're mutually satisfied. That's the point of the game.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I sorta feel like we should have people stop voting officially, but make intent posts, and whoever gets to high enough vote count farside uses her power on....because I really feel we want farside to use up her points,but we also don't want to lose out on the voting history.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

RR
I would say no on that idea......bc voting is more important than intent to vote.

Not really, if everyone knows their intent will count towards lynching someone. It's just as meaningful, gets them on the record, but doesn't reduce the number of points farside will have to use on the off chance she is being honest.

@farside, your reads? We hear all about who you don't want to lynch. Who do you want to lynch?

MoI, snarky, skybird, Shiro (still on there)
Wouldn't lose sleep lynch (dgb, TWIE, random, lurker I maybe forgeting)

You think snarky scum means someone pushing a counter shouldn't be looked at? Let me know.

Prove it. Vote DGB.

Pffffffffffffffffffffffft you just dont want that lynch over snarky.
Like if I'm right can I give you nothing but shit for being wrong?
I'd rather not.

Thanks but no thanks, I'd rather lynch a scum read and you of all players should know better.

Do you even care that I haven't hammered snarky when I can, or do you think I'm lying about that?
Please let me know.

I don't know your roles. You said L minus 2 before.

I do want DGB over Snarky. You're deflecting because either a) DGB is scum with you or b) DGB is town and exposes you.

Rr: you did read the above from Titus.
Which means regardless of what dgb flips there will be another argument from her.

I thought you were planning on hammering snarky over DGB? Are you just saying that if dgb ends up with more "votes" her lynch is bad for you no matter what according to Titus, so you wouldn't use your ability on her?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

The situation just changed drastically. Titus: that thing you know about can now be done due to some other effect you may or may not be aware of. I personally feel like we should do it.

Unless someone can offer some compelling reason to proceed otherwise, please let's get votes off and onto Farside. Don't put her at L-1 until we can co-ordinate, and let us hammer her. She won't be able to escape it by any means.

Scum gives us lemons, then we'll make lemonade.

@Crystal Gems - There was some claim of a resurrection earlier. I don't care what some people have to say about Yume: she shared some of what she can do. If you really are compatible with us, please bring her back if you can.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

UNVOTE:

We have 11 days.

I think there's a reason Yume died. As much as I would love to eliminate Farside, we should figure out why.

The only hurry is for people to unvote so Farside cannot unilaterally end the day by multi-voting someone else, as she claimed to be able to do.

There's obviously a reason Yume was killed. The question is why.

What made you think that list was it? I'm intentionally trying to avoid assuming that it's something that was said or done recently. What if it was instead something from earlier and now was just a time to do it and obfuscate? The other possibility is that it was done to set up a coming action, in which case the point may be just to make us chase our tails around in a circle trying to figure it out.

I notice that I am confused.

~Drixx

P-edit: Are you sure Titus? I screwed up and finished outing what we do. We may not be here to do it tomorrow. I agree totally with you that DGB is scum; probably the traitor she outright claimed to be. So are you no longer sure about Farside?

[Reasonably Rational]

Because roles matter

Too stupid people they do.

The whole scum team has premptively lost all my respect

Just stop it. Seriously. If you want to be a total jerk, there are plenty of places you can do it. This isn't the place. FFS, you're going after someone who the scum team just used a fucking event to take out. If you want to be a bully to someone because it makes you feel better, then come after me.

I am trying to get what the connections this has to either DGB or Farside.

Who said it was connected to either?

Farside can escape lynch (and we have no reason to assume it was a one time only thing, especially with the recharge mechanic from SU being a thing). We can stop her doing that and Titus accidentally let that slip earlier today. Thanks to something I won't reveal here, we can do it today instead of tomorrow (it's finale restricted), which means we can eliminated a problem slot before we can be killed (hopefully).

DGB is obvscum from the second KC flipped as a Crystal Gem. Before that it was probscum.

Are you even playing this game, or do you just drop by to be nasty to one person (who happens to be very smart and very kind and that makes her so far above you at this moment, I can't possibly quantify the vast gulf between you).

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm still damn sure Farside is scum, but she is not the reason for message received.

Probalby not. I mean... it's possible she could have done it simply because most would assume not, but I think I would lean towards thinking that's a low probability. I simply wanted you to know that we can now do what you wanted us to do earlier today.

If you want, I can ping Cerb and we can look at Yume's ISO and try to come up with reasons this might have happened now, but that strikes me as a fool's errand. I could give you three different things that came immediately to mind, and there's no way to know which of them is right, if any:

1.) It was done in response to something from earlier in the game, and delayed to obscure the connection.
2.) It was done because of something Yume said or did recently. (That list you quoted could be a place to look).
3.) It was done in order to set up a future move.

Of the three, #3 is the one I can actually think of some reasoning for. Yume revealed she could BG allies super early on. Alliances are going to be larger tomorrow. There was also some talk of a resurrection ability that leaked into the thread and it would seem like a safe assumption that the factional leader would be the one to do that (although the obscured flip seems to indicate not, so it's possible the gems can bring Steven back).

The problem is that it's speculation. There's nothing I can think of or in my notes that suggest a reason to take Yume out. You or Mastin or (to a lesser extent) us would make much more sense.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Well there is a slim chance of Fire panicking from Yume's push though. We are not in rapid fire mode. Let's slow Cerb. Today is not the season finale.

Cerb hasn't been posting. I sign every post. So does he. I also already said the only hurry is to get votes off of people so Farside cannot unilaterally end the day.

Also: it no longer needs to be the season finale for us to do our thing. It's due to an unrelated effect which I am unsure whether you know about or not and so I'm deliberately not outing it. We can act as if today were the finale in terms of ability usage.

Just stop it. Seriously. If you want to be a total jerk, there are plenty of places you can do it. This isn't the place. FFS, you're going after someone who the scum team just used a fucking event to take out. If you want to be a bully to someone because it makes you feel better, then come after me.

Your a moron.

Sometimes.

Who said it was connected to either?

Titus seems to imply theres a connection to both or at least one.
Are you reading the same game as me?

No. I told Titus that we could do what she wanted us to do earlier in regards to Farside. Titus thinks DGB is the right lynch today. Neither of us said either was related to what just happened. So why did you assume either was related?

Are you even playing this game, or do you just drop by to be nasty to one person (who happens to be very smart and very kind and that makes her so far above you at this moment, I can't possibly quantify the vast gulf between you).

This is why I can't take anything you say seriously.

Okay. I am done tolerating this. And with apologies to Varsoon I'm going to go to the listmods on this one. You've waged a campaign of personal attack against Yume for over a month now in this game, and you're doing it after she just got assassinated out of the blue without warning and is already likely to be upset. There's no need for you to add to that. It's despicable and it's against the site rules.

I have decided I am going to shit on Drixx for the rest of this game.

You can come after me all you like.


~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Drixx, remember how I lied about my bulletproof though, and only recently corrected. Removing my BP makes sense in that regard if they didn't realize my BP is now a passive ability.

Now, the source of the event to match with flavor must come from either the third party or a Yellow Diamond.

This has to be kept in mind. If all the 3p die, lynch Fire.

I already want to lynch fire atm. Look at his posts since the thread unlocked. It's night and day different from before. Yume called him Yellow Diamond, then gets killed, and you say there's a flavor connection? (I've not watched all the episodes so you'll have to explain).

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

No.

VOTE: DGB

This has to be the play.

YAY

And I scumread Dgb and moi

Willing to drop snarky there since lots of my townreads scum read him. Personally I think he is town.

The rest I mostly either townread to some extent or have as PoE (here are people lije twie for example)

I'm actually working on a reads list and reasoning (I know; I'm trying to branch out) and I looked at Snarky earlier today in ISO. There's nothing there that deviates from his usual town play. I see no reason to suspect him other than Mastin's assertion that he's scum. That's not evidence based in any way, so I've got him at lean town atm. The big reservation I have with that read is the fact that people we given a wagon to just sheep and it wouldn't go, which implies scum didn't want it to go, which raises questions.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Seriously, everytime you bring up voting me its because of what I said to Yume.
They are correlated events.

It happened Day 1 in this game.
Its happening now.

You can be honest you know for once.
Just say:

"I do not have a scumread on Firebringer, I just want to Policy him out of the game"

You lying about a scumread is kind of disgusting or maybe your just scum.

I'm starting to scum read you because you are posting far differently since the thread unlock than you were before. Am I bothered by your personal attacks against someone I like? Yep. If I wanted to PL you for that seriously, I would have pushed to do so long before now.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Seriously, everytime you bring up voting me its because of what I said to Yume.
They are correlated events.

It happened Day 1 in this game.
Its happening now.

You can be honest you know for once.
Just say:

"I do not have a scumread on Firebringer, I just want to Policy him out of the game"

You lying about a scumread is kind of disgusting or maybe your just scum.

I'm starting to scum read you because you are posting far differently since the thread unlock than you were before. Am I bothered by your personal attacks against someone I like? Yep. If I wanted to PL you for that seriously, I would have pushed to do so long before now.

~Drixx

Do you really think Fire triggers just after Yume calls him Yellow Diamond?

We can play lynch not nice people, but should we?


@Fire, what are your reads?

Temporal proximity can't clear suspects. Just the fact that you are expressing the idea that he would be afraid to get rid of her after she called him the specific character that apparently makes sense for the event is reason to reconsider that thinking.

Then add on the fact that he was immediately in thread and doing more than troll posts. He even said the move was dumb, which seems like a way to distance himself from it since he's spent most of the game going after Yume personally, primarily over his opinion of her intellect. While he claims he never went after anything more than her play, we all know better.

But again: even that is speculation. Maybe he's just happy someone he apparently really dislikes is out of the game?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Hey Fire, your reads please.

Ive given you reads like two times today. Stop it.

No means no.

If you gave reads already then quote yourself. Why do you feel the need to drag in a phrase generally used to refer to sexual consent (or rather: the lack thereof) into the discussion?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I have decided I am going to shit on Drixx for the rest of this game.

Please leave player-based insults out of this game. They have no place here.
This goes to everyone. This is the last public warning I will give.
If you have a problem with a player, PM me.
If you want to write something mean to a player, just write it to me instead.
Don't take it out in this game thread. Doing so is strictly against the rules and also no fun.
You know what is fun? Buying me a Pizza. I'll take pictures and love you forever.
So, next time that you're feeling like being negative, direct it at me. And buy me a pizza.
Just buy me pizza actually.
I'm a hungry boy.

@Varsoon Everything is right, right?

The Stress raised by 1 as a result of the Event resolving, not due to the kill itself.

I'd love to buy you a pizza. You'll have to drop me your addy on Skype after the game is over so you can get surprise pizza sometime.

Much <3.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Mod

, When was the last possible moment to trigger Message Received? Could it be triggered by any member of the scumteam? Do we have any idea of the score now since it is over?

I can not speak towards the specific nature of any of the scum team's Factional Events.
Message Received's 'action foregoing' effect is still in play and will remain in play until otherwise stated, even though the event itself is not ongoing.

Wait, so we can still die even though the event resolved? So if we don't forgo more can die?

...

I have to sleep.

Titus you're not paying attention. Go read the start of D2 again, then read what just happened, and then tell me how you could possibly think that event led to this one.

There are like...so many reasons why that doesn't make sense.

Good night.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I just realised that I am not voting Dgb after the reset

VOTE:DGB

Hey Fire, your reads please.

Ive given you reads like two times today. Stop it.

No means no.

If you gave reads already then quote yourself. Why do you feel the need to drag in a phrase generally used to refer to sexual consent (or rather: the lack thereof) into the discussion?

~Drixx

Ok that is quite of a stretch there. No means no is a common expression.

I've never heard the phrase used outside that context, with the exception of exasperated parents telling a small child that the previous no to a request still means no. Since FB doesn't strike me as the parent in the relationship he has with Titus, there's only one other context to associate it with. But if it's more common elsewhere, I shall take your word for it.

@Drixx, The event is a scum event. Even if Fire hated Yume, triggering the event now

seems to be a fear event

. They apparently could trigger at nightfall, but they triggered at day. Why?

Mod

, When was the last possible moment to trigger Message Received? Could it be triggered by any member of the scumteam? Do we have any idea of the score now since it is over?

Maybe you hit the nail on the head with the idea that the purpose is fear. Regardless of the player in the slot, Steven is a powerful character in this flavor. Steven just got assassinated out of nowhere.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Wait, so we can still die even though the event resolved? So if we don't forgo more can die?

Let me break down how it works:
The "Message Received" Event was resolved and ended as of Exposition 2's start.
It added a rule to the game itself that players may forego taking Climax actions to add to a hidden score.
This effect will be in play until otherwise noted. You will know when it comes to an end--I will make it very clear.
Whether or not the score is high enough as of now to prevent the deaths mentioned is not information that I can share.

In post #3226, you said that if the score did not reach a certain point by the upcoming finale (toMorrow), there would be several deaths.

Here you seem to imply that we might have more time?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Pretty sure lynch was a couple votes ago.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

There was nothing set up for creature and shadow, nothing confirmed. People didn't get back and confirm things even though they had DAYS to.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Which alliance should I join? Xkfyu/Shadow_step or Skybird/TheFuzzylogic99?

Last thing creature said on the subject. I don't know which alliance he was going to end up in.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

i'm glad we didn't. there was no way farside was responsible for that Yume kill.

Walk me through the reasoning please? I'll reciprocate, but I'm trying to figure out why you're dismissing Farside as a suspect.

Also we should have been the one's to hammer, regardless of who it was. Anyone who doesn't realize why

really

hasn't been paying attention.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

i'm glad we didn't. there was no way farside was responsible for that Yume kill.

Walk me through the reasoning please? I'll reciprocate, but I'm trying to figure out why you're dismissing Farside as a suspect.

Also we should have been the one's to hammer, regardless of who it was. Anyone who doesn't realize why

really

hasn't been paying attention.

~Drixx

There is absolutely no link between Farside not triggering the event and her alignment.

Why kill Yume

now

? At that particular moment, the heat was coming off Farside. Giving six additional days and resetting doesn't make sense for Farside if she has the trigger.

I <3 you Titus. I really wanted to see what Not Chara would say though. Like .. really really wanted to see reasoning for that opinion from NC.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

i'm glad we didn't. there was no way farside was responsible for that Yume kill.

Walk me through the reasoning please? I'll reciprocate, but I'm trying to figure out why you're dismissing Farside as a suspect.

Also we should have been the one's to hammer, regardless of who it was. Anyone who doesn't realize why

really

hasn't been paying attention.

~Drixx

There is absolutely no link between Farside not triggering the event and her alignment.

Why kill Yume

now

? At that particular moment, the heat was coming off Farside. Giving six additional days and resetting doesn't make sense for Farside if she has the trigger.

I <3 you Titus. I really wanted to see what Not Chara would say though. Like .. really really wanted to see reasoning for that opinion from NC.

~Drixx

There are times I feel your questions are full of fluff and some false comments seem to be your Forte currently.
Not sure why.

I personally think Titus is mistaken and that the pressure flowing away from you made it

precisely

the right time for a scum!you to drop a bomb like that. It keeps you alive and took the focus away from you, which you desperately needed because Titus was only going elsewhere today because she couldn't get you lynched today.

But that's really beside the point, isn't it? I wanted to know what Not Chara had for reasoning, because it's not enough for someone to just express a position with no substantiation.

And could you be any more obvious in attacking the slot you know can ensure your death? I mean... seriously. Just kill us tonight if you're that worried about it.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

i'm glad we didn't. there was no way farside was responsible for that Yume kill.

Walk me through the reasoning please? I'll reciprocate, but I'm trying to figure out why you're dismissing Farside as a suspect.

Also we should have been the one's to hammer, regardless of who it was. Anyone who doesn't realize why

really

hasn't been paying attention.

~Drixx

There is absolutely no link between Farside not triggering the event and her alignment.

Why kill Yume

now

? At that particular moment, the heat was coming off Farside. Giving six additional days and resetting doesn't make sense for Farside if she has the trigger.

I <3 you Titus. I really wanted to see what Not Chara would say though. Like .. really really wanted to see reasoning for that opinion from NC.

~Drixx

There are times I feel your questions are full of fluff and some false comments seem to be your Forte currently.
Not sure why.

I personally think Titus is mistaken and that the pressure flowing away from you made it

precisely

the right time for a scum!you to drop a bomb like that. It keeps you alive and took the focus away from you, which you desperately needed because Titus was only going elsewhere today because she couldn't get you lynched today.

But that's really beside the point, isn't it? I wanted to know what Not Chara had for reasoning, because it's not enough for someone to just express a position with no substantiation.

And could you be any more obvious in attacking the slot you know can ensure your death? I mean... seriously. Just kill us tonight if you're that worried about it.

~Drixx

And I could have hammer voted snarky but someone said to wait

Gee do you think scum was more frigtened by my ability there.
Moi sure would be up shit Creek with a Snarky scum flip.
I wasn't remotely on the table at that point.

At what point are you going to respond to the question I asked about scum not voting beach event.
I totally love you dancing past that question.

I answered the question a long time ago. Once again you're back to making shit up and hoping people won't take a look for themselves. And the weirdest thing is that you dropped your scum read on us, but you keep making posts like this.

In any case, I answered the question ages ago and I have no interested in replacing Titus as your "let's shit all over the thread" dance partner. Find someone else.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay ... we didn't hammer?

Are alliances set? I can hammer if our count was off.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

McMenno, this is sort of important.

Did you end up allying mastin on D2 or not? She said you would receive a PM informing you of her effect if you had successfully allied with her.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Titus, can you please stop speaking in absolutes about other peoples actions.

McMenno never said it failed(I don't think?), just that he had no PT, and mastin said he should have got a PM about her benefits or something, and he never said another word about it.

McMenno, did your alliance with mastin on D2 work or no?

-Cerb

pedit: Yeah.

[Reasonably Rational]

dovetails

What table/cell/row commands?? I'm doing this on a WORD file. I can't be bothered to open an Excel sheet aside from the main file I use to take notes, keep vote counts and even have the code for my wiki page to update when it "mysteriously" loses content.

Spoiler: Sorry if it looks messy!

Shadow_Step [E1:Skybird][E2:grapes] [E3:-]
Xkfyu [E1:SS or -][E2:Almost] [E3:Skybird]
Skybird [E1:Shadow_Step][E2:farside] [E3:Xkfyu]
Shiro [E1:Firebringer][E2:random] [E3:-]
DrippingGoofball [E1:KC][E2:-] [E3:TWIE]DoG
Farside22 [E1:Yume][E2:Skybird] [E3:Not Chara]
Yume [E1:farside][E2:RR] [E3:Titus]
Mathblade [E2:SS or -]
Reasonably Rational [E1:Titus][E2:Yume] [E3:Almost]
grapes [E1:Not Chara][E2:Shadow_Step] [E3:Fuzzy]
mastiE2 [E1:-][E2:McMenno FAIL] [E3:McMenno FAIL]
Not Chara [E1:grapes][E2:kraska] [E3:farside]
kraskaesque [E1:McMenno][E2:Not Chara] [E3:-]<<Share on E2???
MagnaofIllusion [E1:-][E2:KC] [E3:-]
McMenno [E1:kraska][E2:FAIL Mastina] [E3:FAIL Mastina]
Firebringer [E1:Shiro][E2:-] [E3:-]
TheFuzzylogic99 [E1:Math][E2:-] [E3:grapes]
SnarkySnowman [E1:Xf or -][E2:Math or -] [E3:Creature]
Creature [E1:randomidget][E2:-] [E3:Snarky]
randomidget [E1:creature][E2:Shiro] [E3:-]
TheWayItEnds [E1:-][E2:-] [E3:DGB]
Almost50 [E1:SC][E2:Xkfyu] [E3:RR]

Notes:
1- I took away the dead from the list, but they're still there in the repective slots they occupied with the living.
2- Titus is not included (Mod-confirmed)
3- I went back reattached myself (I'm confirmed to me, but not to others, so I had deleted myself in my own version)

Titus, can you post your updated chart again please? We need to figure out where we have missing alliances on D2.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I received a very clear pm from varsoon

and I would also like almost to say why he lied about sending you a pizza

I don't remember that, but if he did, he had a very good reason which makes sense given what he told me during our alliance yesterday.

You should probably leave it alone.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It probably had a lynch threshold that we didn't meet. Each alliance group would muster 3 votes. If the threshold was 7+, then unless three groups all arrived at the same person, it makes sense that nobody would have been lynched.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

We didn't get notification, vote count, or planning. That's a scum event designed to take out myself or Mastina.

I think all lies need to come into the open.

Also, DGB's alliances do need to be tracked. For Farside to be scum, dgb needs to be in communication with scum. Easiest is d3 with TWIE but if Mastina was allied only with McMenno...then that changes things. I had done a significant amount of analysis based on that lie.

That idea that it was meant to take out yourself or mastina is obviously wrong, because given that it needs votes, they would have had to convince their allies to vote for you or mastina, which they obviously wouldn't do.

I'm like 99% that the event didn't come from either faction, scum or gems. Too easy to basically gain 100% lynch control(depending on what the lynch threshold was) by organizing it in advance.

So yeah. Pretty damn sure it just came from some random town slot.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Disagree. Scum were NOT going to lynch us with the event. Stress went to negative 6 because of a no lynch. That effect is pro scum. The lack of claiming or organizing is pro scum. The lack of vote revelations is pro scum.

That event was designed to lower stress to make us vulnerable.

Got it. We need more info. It's perfectly possible that whoever used the event knows how all the votes went, and set it as a trap for scum to see who said one thing to their allies and ended up actually voting another way. In addition...with the delay in flips, a drop to -4 stress AT DAY START doesn't make sense as a way of making certain slots vulnerable, if scum expected their kill to work.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

More stress is good and bed.

I'd hold off on using it, but make sure that stress wasn't at -4 when we go into the night phase.

Like talk to varsoon and set up a trigger that at L-1 or L-2 you use that power.
-Cerb