Micro 660: Triplicate Mafia - Game Over

[Secret Agent Jin]

So Dunn and ArcAngel are in my group. I have played with Dunn, very good player, but i am not familiar with Arc. How are you two?

[Secret Agent Jin]

The groups hammer locks in

That's pretty important

It says in the rules that only the last groups hammer is an actual hammering vote.

Until each of the three groups has a majority of votes on a player, votes may be changed as desired. This means even if two players vote for someone, they can change their votes.

[Secret Agent Jin]

So lets do this Power group, lets talk to each other. Dunn, i understand your statement on Wisdom but what is telling you Courage is too scared to scum hunt? Also, having small groups like this, its hard to start out. I have never played this style of game before. Where is Arc at? It seems he hasnt posted, its early on though.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Buddying up already!?

No not really, just saying i have played with Dunn, he plays well and I like that you come out swinging. These are just my observations, nothing to do with buddying. Anyways, have you played triplicate mafia before? This is a pretty unique setup for me and i like it. It puts a fresh spin on the game.

[Secret Agent Jin]

VT here.

Scum found in Wisdom.

You got a scum read off of two words?

[Secret Agent Jin]

VT here.

Scum found in Wisdom.

You got a scum read off of two words?

What's the point of declaring that he is VT?? At this time, how doesn't it help to move forward the game?

Is this your attempt to twist my statements?

I truthfully have no intentions on twisting your words. My questioning of your statement was intended to get you to explain which you did. I agree that in some ways it is suspicious to claim right away. I really wasnt trying to get you to stumble or make your words sound bad.

[Secret Agent Jin]

VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

Is there reasoning behind this? Are you voting me based on your read of Arc? If your read on Arc is town and you are town then i must be scum, right? If your read on Arc is town, i agree.

[Secret Agent Jin]

VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

Is there reasoning behind this? Are you voting me based on your read of Arc? If your read on Arc is town and you are town then i must be scum, right? If your read on Arc is town, i agree that she is town.

EBWOP

[Secret Agent Jin]

I think arc is town

Alright, we are getting somewhere in our voting block, we both agree that we townread Arc. The question is are we the all town group (since there are only two groups that have mafia) or are you the mafia part of Power?

[Secret Agent Jin]

I really dont see a case on Arc, a slight misunderstanding maybe?

@Dunn What is your thoughts on Arc? I know you saud it wasnt much of a case but do you think she is suspicious?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Now i am a bit on the fence concerning Power group. I think Frank might be scum and he has a scum read on Dunn and he said maybe also Arc. If Frank turns out to be scum then we can maybe discount his scum read on Dunn and Arc. I dont know who to vote in my group because Arc and Dunn are really good at being scum or they are town, like i think. All i know right now is if i could, i would vote Frank.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Now i am a bit on the fence concerning Power group. I think Frank might be scum and he has a scum read on Dunn and he said maybe also Arc. If Frank turns out to be scum then we can maybe discount his scum read on Dunn and Arc. I dont know who to vote in my group because Arc and Dunn are really good at being scum or they are town, like i think. All i know right now is if i could, i would vote Frank.

I get this logic, but I have 2 suggestions;

1. I'm not scum, but it does not implicate them when I flip green.

2. Dont treat them as town because you think I'm scum.

So if your group is clear, and I am wisdom scum, who is the scum in the last group?

1. That is correct, it does not implicate them. If you are town then your scumreads are subjective. If you are scum then you know who scum is and wouldnt bus early on.
2. Im treating them as town because i read them as town.
3. I havent seen many posts from them but lane is townlean to me so Wobbuffet or Lion could be scummy. I dont have an answer for that.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Ive considered lion as well. Lane does look pretty town. Wobb being afk makes ur group a harder to read

Do you think Wobb is afk or just lurking and hasnt posted?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Anyways, have you played triplicate mafia before? This is a pretty unique setup for me and i like it. It puts a fresh spin on the game.

SAJ, how does this question help you find scum?

It doesnt help me find scum but it was a welcoming post. I try to be nice to start things off.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I think power is most likely to have 3 town as well actually

Just that we gotta lynch somebody.

I want Howard + Wobafett dead in the other groups

If Woba was online but didnt post today like lion said, i could see them being a lynch target.

So, seeing as we both townread Arc, what do you think about me putting my vote on you and letting Arc decide between us since your vote is already on me?

[Secret Agent Jin]

If you look at Arc's posts throughout the game they look like she is suspicious of a few people and trying to pin down scum quickly which is townleaning. When you ISO her though and those posts are all in a row, she looks like she is fairly scummy considering she pointed at multiple people in just 8 posts. She looks too eager to me. I mean, no matter the outcome we HAVE to decide on three lynches.

VOTE: ArcAngel

[Secret Agent Jin]

UNVOTE:
Ok that jump-on was pretty scummy considering you were talking about how she was town

Unvoting because we're at l-1 or whatever and I want to let arc talk and see if saj is scum after all

After you said to look at her posts i ISO'd her and she has a couple posts toward me that make it seem like i am scummy, namely "are you trying to twist my words" and accusing me of buddying. After that she jumps on lane's case about ruining her reaction test and continues to write messages about him. To tell you the truth, i would have never been suspicious of Arc if it wasnt for you asking me to review her posts and voting her. You know i townread her and even said that her posts looked innocent to me. If you had not made me question my read and made me second guess myself then i would have never voted her. Is this your way of making me look suspicious and scummy? Is this how you are going to convince Arc to vote me? Are you town? You know i am newer and inexperienced so you tricked me and made me trust your word that there was something i wasnt catching within Arc's posts. You know i am bad at reading players since i am new to this site and you played me. I am just upset at you for doing that to me, i thought you are suppose to help new players. Ill be back after awhile when i am cooled down.

@Arc I am sorry i voted you, i townread you and he played me into changing my mind. I thought Power group was the all-town group but i dont know anymore about Dunn.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Dunn

[Secret Agent Jin]

I guess i just have to get used to things on this site, i guess my Arc vote could be taken as jumping on. I see what Arc means and we should talk more about things.

UNVOTE:

The grouping is a bit confusing to me still since i am both trying to focus on mt group while attempting to read the others for possible scum.

My Group

What Dunn did with the Arc vote was understandable and i see that it wasnt so much a trick as it was a reaction test. I really did think he was subtly pointing out that i missed something so i ISO'd Arc. I started to see suspicious moves but i now know that it was just scumhunting. I dont know how i feel about Dunn but i can hope the reaction test was innocent.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Wisdom Group

I don't know how to feel about Gamma but i am convinced this back and forth between Frank and Howard means one is scum and one is town. I had my suspicions about Frank before but i am not sure any more.

Courage Group

This group is interesting, Lane is active and engaging which boasts well for town but some of the stuff he posts i dont exactly agree with. As far as Guilty and Woba goes, i think the scum is within one of them. I am leaning toward Woba since i am thinking he is lurking rather than inactive.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Would you vote Howard if you were in his group Secret?

As of right now, if i was in Wisdom, i would vote Frank

[Secret Agent Jin]

After the recent posts by Frank, i poured over Howard's posts in more detail. I think Howard is scum and the following is my reasoning.

8 The initial jump on Gamma that was "RVS". Even without the ability for a quick hammer lockdown i wouldnt have done so considering the vote was there for 71 posts and i think if it was RVS and a joke vote that he would have unvoted quicker. Just my opinion, nothing too solidly scummy about the post.

79 The votes arent what i am pointing at this for. I am more concerned with the agreement on voting Arc if he could, no explaination and no reasoning. Just a poke towards Arc and a mindless sheep vote on her. I know i was sceptical of Arc when i voted her but that had a bit of reasoning and was a mixup not blind like this post.

131 Says he wasnt worried that his vote was on Gamma because it wasnt a quick hammer and there was no reason not to vote. I think this is a horrible attempt at covering up his Gamma vote. If we look at his post 8 vote and the post 79 Arc sentence, they both have 0 reasoning and he is just blindly jumping on people in my opinion.

134 Again, i think that his Gamma "RVS" vote was just a BS excuse for why he voted. I really think that Frank misunderstanding the rule is not a good point either. He says Frank could use that as a reason to being ignorance, call out someone being scum, and stick with his town story but i think Frank misunderstanding the rule was genuine.

178 His "expanded reasoning", if you can call it that, on Arc is both confusing and utter crap.

@ArcAngel9:

My posts when read in thread, or at least not quoted out of order, make perfect sense. Go back and read 79, 83-87.

They really dont make sense to me, just more bullcrap.

I don't buy into the VT versus townie argument. You dodged answering to "twisting words" thrice: 62, 65, 71 If you still can't see it, "I say it is your perception."Not parking options; being open. How does it compare to your lack of commitment to anything? "Scum found in Wisdom." (50), "Is scum lurking in Courage and Wisdom?" (77), and all of 176.

Can anyone explain how this makes sense?

IMHO thinking as one group all town today is a hindrance to finding scum or a divisive stance. I haven't done a full breakdown, but it appears that not lynching in a group is a bad decision.

Actually there IS only two scum to three groups right? So there must be an all-town group and at the end of the day the all-town group HAS to vote and it will be a mislynch seeing as they all are town. As far as i can understand, all groups have to lynch and cant no lynch right?

I REALLY think howard is scum. If he is lynched and flips scum then Gamma and Frank are confirmed town. If he flips town then i dont know where to look in that group.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I am all for a Wobafett replacement so that Courage can actually advance. Right now it is just two people which can either vote each other or vote Woba. The problem is Woba may be town and they dont know that because he isnt around to provide info.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Think I'd prefer to talk about the current game actually

Alright then, what do you propose we do in Power? Other then the Arc vote fiasco, what is your read on the group?

[Secret Agent Jin]

I think based on thinking you're genuine I'd want to vote arc

Do you have a suspicion of Arc? What are your actual thoughts on me?

[Secret Agent Jin]

That seems like a stretch Gamma.

[Secret Agent Jin]

That seems like a stretch Gamma.

Kinda is but I feel it in my core
THIS IS THE SCUM!

Frank and Dunn are your scum picks?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Yah SAJ is my best bet for a Frank buddy

This is where you say why i am your "best bet" for a Frank buddy.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Are you saying that reads on people cant change? I ISO'd Frank and was looking deeper into his posts which brought me to Howard and his posts looked scummier to me, so i changed my outlook.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I can understand that it looks scripted, it was a quick-ish switch. The other explaination is that it was genuine and i do think Howard is scummy.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Why would I need to "cover up" my Gamma Emerald vote?

I was referring to the fact that you were trying to cover for the fact that you were scummy, reread my analysis of your posts.

[Secret Agent Jin]

@Howard:

Says he wasnt worried that his vote was on Gamma because it wasnt a quick hammer and there was no reason not to vote.

That is what i was referencing when i said it was a crappy cover up. "No reason not to vote"? That is a very scummy thing to say.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Im sorry that you cant understand the reasoning.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I don't think Frank is scum in wisdom. And I'm pretty sure there's scum in wisdom

Are you talking about Howard? If so i agree

[Secret Agent Jin]

I don't think Frank is scum in wisdom. And I'm pretty sure there's scum in wisdom

Are you talking about Howard? If so i agree

Howard does look like a solid partner for q. Im glad I'm not in that group

If you were in that group and Howard flipped scum, it would clear you.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Ditto? Lol I don't know what you're saying. I mean I know what you're saying, but if you have another point, I don't know what it is

You said you are glad you arent in that group and i just found it a weird thing to say since if you were then it might clear you if he flips scum.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Can we get a poke on GuiltyLion?

What do you say we do for our group Dunn? Right now, from my PoV, i can vote you or Arc. You have been both more active and more townlike in your posts but Arc is still semi-active (last post 21 or so hours ago) and she doesnt strike me as scum. I rather keep the active players alive but its up to you. You are looking at me and Arc, we have to lynch someone today.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Arc suggested a NL but that will lead to mafia choosing so in my eyes we have to choose someone. I dont like that Arc suggested a NL with the mafia rule being in effect. This triplicate setup is throwing me for a loop.

VOTE: Arc

[Secret Agent Jin]

@SAJ: You know you're putting

3!

people at L-1, not just Arc...

I was putting three people at L-1, i didnt realize that the other two groups had voted a person, i thought only the frank/howard group had. Also, i can see the reasoning behind Town!Arc. I am willing to follow what she says but my understanding is that if we no lynch then it doesnt matter if our group is 100% town, the mafia still chooses someone to die. Ill leave it up to Arc, no lynch or Dunn?

UNVOTE:

[Secret Agent Jin]

I will hold off on voting until Wisdom acknowledges Dunn. I dont know what Wisdom has to do with our group but ill wait.

[Secret Agent Jin]

So i think its only our group who have to decide before the deadline.

Then lets get down to brass tacks. I really believe you are town so i am not voting for you which leaves myself and Dunn. I am obviously not self voting and i refuse to give mafia free control of who to kill by no-lynching. My only choice is Dunn from my point of view which i dont feel good about either because he is generally a good player through out the games i have played with him.

VOTE: Dunn

[Secret Agent Jin]

Jin - are you up for Dun's lynch?

Yeah, i voted gim because i wont vote you and i wont self vote so by that logic the only option left is my vote on Dunn.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Jin - are you up for Dun's lynch?

Yeah, i voted gim because i wont vote you and i wont self vote so by that logic the only option left is my vote on Dunn.

Not sure why - I think if anyones scum in our group it would be arc

How about this, you tell me why you think she is scum and ill tell you why i think she is town.

[Secret Agent Jin]

54 Her response seemed a bit town to me bur it was really early on and anything was possible.
62 This post continues to seem genuine and the second part seems town-based to me because lane was pushing yet she stays consistent.
65 This is the post that i start to really put a townlean on Arc
71 She puts herself out there and plays a very town game in my opinion

After my post in 145 and the BS test you setup for me, she could have easily jumped on me and followed you but she told us to be rational and calm down in 151 which isnt something scum would do IMO. She had plenty of chances to follow a vote on either of us but she tried problem solving and being reasonable.

I see her as Town!Arc

[Secret Agent Jin]

Still catching up but jin is looking scummy rn

Is there reasoning behind my scumminess?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Well, i am still around but there isnt much power can do as i townread Arc and Dunn scumreads her. We are pretty much waiting for Arc's input and it looks like you all are waiting for Howard's vote.

[Secret Agent Jin]

It has to be between Howard, Gamma, and Guilty. Arc didnt do anything suspicious D1. Who would have reason to kill Lane? Lane suspected GL so he could have kill Lane but would he kill within his own "group"? What is everyone's opinion on Howard? He hasnt posted as much as other people.

@Gamma: What did Arc do to make you suspect her?

[Secret Agent Jin]

@Secret Agent Jin: Did you just copy and past ArcAngel9's scum list?

No i didnt, there is only 5 people left and Arc has given me no reason to suspect her so that leaves 3 people.

Howard take that vote off right now. We are in LyLo.

We have to be cautious who we vote but in the end we do have to vote someone or we lose.

@Everyone: Who is the most scummy to everyone and your reasoning?

I am going to start ISOing and look for a reason to kill Lane.

[Secret Agent Jin]

So Howard, let me get this right. You think your group was all town, GL thinks his team was all town, and Arc and I think our team is all town. Two people HAVE to be scum out of the five of us. If we focus, avoid throwing random votes out, and comb through posts then we should be able to pull up some convincing information.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I think scum is treading water and hoping they won't have to take the lead in trying to push me, such as Jin not answering my question about calling me confscum directly.

Are you refering to this question? "if you two are townreading eachother, then I should be confirmed scum to both of you. Why didn't you explicitly address this?"

To tell the truth this is my thought process. There is two teams that have scum in them and if you are town that means my group and Gamma's group have scum in them. If my group has scum then i will be blown away because Arc laid low on Day 1. My true feelings are that there is scum between Gamma/Howard and the other scum is a toss up between GL and Arc. The main question is who had the motivation to kill Lane? I think the Lane kill puts pressure on GL as the other two players in his group flipped town and it lends a lot of speculation to if GLs group was the true all town group. I think it would be a very stupid move for GL to target Lane as the pressure and spotlight instant is on him. Scum hates to be in the spotlight but GL might hope we come to that conclusion and take the risk to kill Lane. At this point i dont know which it is.

Looking back some of SAJ's actions look like he's buddying up to AA.

Whats the ultimate difference between Howard giving you a TR and myself giving Arc a TR? As this day phase has played out so far, i am becoming more suspicious of Arc as she has laid low for D1 and i might have gave her a wring preemptive TR.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Howard was likely buddying me too. That's an easy comment to fake as scum, in fact IVE SEEN scum fake it.

Why would that commebt be anywhere near AI? I was pointing out that i wasnt the only one to buddy and then you say that the comment is easily faked by scum? What exactly is there to fake about comparing two TR situations?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Howard was likely buddying me too. That's an easy comment to fake as scum, in fact IVE SEEN scum fake it.

Why would that commebt be anywhere near AI? I was pointing out that i wasnt the only one to buddy and then you say that the comment is easily faked by scum? What exactly is there to fake about comparing two TR situations?

I thought you were talking about the "+1" he did. Are you talking about Day 1?

I see what happened Gamma, i thought you were saying that i faked my comment about Howard TRing you but you might have meant Howard faked his comment. I got mixed up with what you meant and thought you were saying i faked my stuff.

[Secret Agent Jin]

So, what is peoples opinion on my situation i brought up in my previous post?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Im sorry for the absence, i have the flu and i have been sleeping like 18 hours a day. I did ISO Lane and he seemed to be heavy on arguing against Arc. If he died it would have looked bad against her but it would have looked worse on GL as his group already has two dead townies and its a 33.34% chance that his group is all town. I truthfully think that he is setup to be the easy lynch. If he flips town then its 2v2 town/scum and we lose as scum wins if they are equal to town.

If GL is town then the scum is Arc and one of Gamma/Howard. What is everyone's opinion when looking at Lane?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Which situation (post) do you want comment? The Gamma Emerald confusion? Town reads? Buddying?

I just wanted more information from everyone, trying to get the information rolling.

[Secret Agent Jin]

So, what is peoples opinion on my situation i brought up in my previous post?

Which situation (post) do you want comment? The Gamma Emerald confusion? Town reads? Buddying?

I just wanted more information from everyone, trying to get the information rolling.

?!?!? Asking pointless questions then?

Its better than letting the game sit and stalling into a no lynch. You cant ISO Lane? You cant take the time to dig a bit and come up with any info that would be useful to town?

[Secret Agent Jin]

I think you are likely town
I think all groups pegged yours as the all town one, leading to the lane NK, everyone else had done something major to stick out, which scum might capitalize on

See, here is participation that gets the game going. So, if you are saying he is likely town, and no one scumreads themselves, then who out of Arc, Howard, and Myself are scum to you? What about someone in this makes you suspicious of them being scum?

[Secret Agent Jin]

I think you are likely town
I think all groups pegged yours as the all town one, leading to the lane NK, everyone else had done something major to stick out, which scum might capitalize on

See, here is participation that gets the game going. So, if you are saying he is likely town, and no one scumreads themselves, then who out of Arc, Howard, and Myself are scum to you? What about someone in this makes you suspicious of them being scum?

Well obviously FMPOV Howard is scum. As for SAJ/ AA, I need to review Day 1 and see who sat in the best position for scum

Have you gotten a chance to review D1?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Well i didnt want to come right out and say that i scumread Howard by way of Gamma. This voting phase is very crucial and i didnt want to come out and vote Howard and either him be flashhammered or the vote quickly flip on myself without time to reply. If one of us puts down a vote it can quickly be flashed by the mafia and we lose.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Gamma and GL, are we sure about Howard? I think its a good chance since i think Gamma is town.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Secret Agent Jin is looking like a reasonable lynch to me.

What is your reasoning here?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Well, seeing as GL voted Howard and we didnt have a quickhammer from scum, we can assume that Howard is scum. If he were Town then i think we would see a big jump on/hammer from scum.

VOTE: Howard

[Secret Agent Jin]

I'd like AA and SAJ to give some more thoughts before I do.

I will happily give more thoughts, do you want my thoughts for why Howard is scum or something else?

[Secret Agent Jin]

I'd like AA and SAJ to give some more thoughts before I do.

I will happily give more thoughts, do you want my thoughts for why Howard is scum or something else?

Thought on AA.

I honestly believe she is heavily bussing Howard or she is town and has had a lot of luck being right about Howard since early D1. I think that if she is bussing Howard then she has done a really good job and has fooled me because she has been sure Howard is scum from D1 and hasnt changed.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Thank you Not_Mafia for running this and thanks everyone for playing, i enjoyed it. I was lucky to have a skilled partner like GL. I told myself on D2 to just keep strong and hidden, we chose to kill Lane because i banked on Arc TRing me and we knew we could possibly play Gamma and Howard against each other. It was a veey good game considering i was on the edge of my seat because i wasnt sure we were going to pull it off.