Micro 672: Vanillish Mafia (Game Over!)

[Hiraki]

Ego post

[Hiraki]

Ever been in a game with Kain?

If not, check out completed games (am phoneposting or would provide links)

Pine

You don't have to replace out.

You just have to shape up, act like a grownup, and play the game.

Unvote

See? There's the benefit of the doubt. Policy lynch reprieved. Sink back into old habits of posting in shouts, appealing massively to emotion, and being enormously conceited, and your reprieve ends.

God, I hate beating up on kids.

Serious question, Kain, how old are you?

Pine

Really not liking this.

@Tier cos the rest are self explanatory and I understand TT's frustration cos I have played with Kain before.

Is that why you also put an RVS vote on him? Sounds like a pretty useless vote tbh

VOTE: Kain

Yeah no, not doing that

5v3 PL lynch
next day is;
4v3 hope to god we get it right, scum gets a kill, if not we lose
3v2 hope to god we get it right, if not we lose

Continue to push a PL and you'll get my vote

wow way to really push in that consistency super hard

Honey, Town of Salem is the white girl trailer trash of Mafia. Let me tell you the pecking order.

Mith
The Mods
Mafiascum
Epicmafia
Off-site knock offs
The Dirt
The worms inside the dirt
Ice JJ Fish's singing voice
Town of Salem


Please, let's refrain from talking about it again

LOL!!!

I don't like the amount of content coming out of you two tbh

Pine is solely talking about Kaine (which tbh isn't bad) while you keep just posting IIoA.

TierShift and Hiraki seems to be making MOSTLY JOKE POSTS....

That was a post so that I could come back to it afterwards without looking for the thread via "View your posts". If there is a joke there, it's a pretty bad one. I agree with you on the TierShift one. Would definitely like to see more content from that slot.

What's the possibility that they didn't post content because you seemed to be an easy mislynch?

Huh???? Wait are you agreeing with him? I would honestly scumread you at this point if you weren't the innocent child.

Would like a bit more content from everyone before placing down a vote. Definitely too early and too much heat on the current VC for me to try and upset it atm.

[Hiraki]

Since when am I not allowed to agree with someone? Also what's scummy about posing a theory?

I never said it was scummy to post a theory. What I did say is that you were inconsistent in applying that theory based on the facts.

Also why is it that you don't want to upset the heat on a VC if there isn't enough content?

Moreso just want to check that there isn't a wagon atm. It was also around 3 AM when I posted that so I just didn't want to count votes. Now that it's not so late, I'll vote.

5. Hiraki your post seems to contain a lot of fluff as if you are trying to contribute.

It's page 3. You're going to call me out on posting fluff? If you'd like to point out which points are fluff, I'd be happy to establish why it's not fluff.

What do you feel is fluff about hiraki's post?

Glad I wasn't the only one. If you don't mind, here's an addendum to your own question to Spade:

If my post does have fluff, what did I miss in the three pages that you think I should have commented on but did not?

P-Edit: I guess my thoughts don't really need to be interpreted as scum or not huh?

Correct - no one will judge your thoughts whether or not they are scummy. Rather, we will judge them if we believe if they are correct or incorrect.

Vote: Spade

[Hiraki]

Before I respond to Spade's post, I'd like to address my main question which was one of my responses were "fluff".

For the purposes of fluff, I would think that it is pretty agreed that these are points that provide no content and no information to anyone. I'm not going to say I'm flawless but I don't think it's as extreme as you guys are saying. I am doing this based off of the blue text Spade has put after my posts. (n.b. these are not in quotes because I was signed off in the middle of typing this and got very annoyed and wanted to get this out there ASAP - if you have any trouble following or have any concerns, feel free to ask)

1) Fair enough - when I say "I don't like this", I mean that it is somewhat scummy.

For example, in Post 14, ThinkTank is pretty serious about the PL before Kain posts. Then drops it once it looks like a scene is being created in Post 36. Please explain to me how that is fluff and not just a misunderstanding of how I utilize the term "don't like this"?

2) RVS is not do whatever you want phase. Otherwise, we'd call it that. I'd love to find some definition of RVS that says you can screw around for the sake of screwing around. It's light-hearted, sure, but not just completely ignorant of obtaining scumtells. Again - I don't see how you can make this point sound like fluff either. We had a legitimate disagreement on your play. Calling it fluff is inappropriate.

3) Fair enough - I was only making a point that Gin would've taken. I don't think he took it the right way but that certainly isn't going to make me change my style. I don't see how that counts as fluff either since it's clearly game relevant, albeit perhaps a little not needed. If you want your special one fluff point, feel free to take it.

4) You can't consider this fluff if you're asking a question here. I also think it's both but I can understand how you could feel otherwise. Pine keeps calling me a town-read with no substance. Let me be clear here - Pine and I haven't played a game in at least a year. I can't comment on his townread if he's giving no substance and also is making me look scummy in his own dying ship.

5) Again, you're asking me a question here - how is this fluff? If you want to backtrack and say that by fluff you meant that you misunderstood what I was saying, I won't blame you - just don't call it fluff if it's not fluff. This was pre-post 69 for TS (TierShift). Now based on what you said, which is

literally

the smallest part of that point, I believe that TS didn't have much content and was just joking around with his questions. If you want to say that I fabricated that I thought TS' posts were funny in order to make myself look better or something, feel free. It's as good, if not better, than the arguments you have presented here already.

6) Again - how is this fluff? I was literally responding to someone's concerns of me. I would really like you to address this fluff point. Not so much that we would learn anything but just because I know it's bullshit. I know you won't though.

On your point that I could have just counted the votes, I have the following to address:

A) As stated, it was 3 AM. I live in EST - this is fact. Could I have counted the votes at 3 AM after getting home from Christmas festivities? Sure - you're 100% right. But after typing a bit and going into the game, I did not feel comfortable making that move. Instead, I did it at 12 PM the next day. I really don't think you have any fair points in this scenario. What scum motivation do I have to wait the next day (n.b. it was literally 9 hours later and I sleep comfortably for 8 hours - it's not like I put on the mafia machine to create the best response to this situation) in order to make my vote?

B) Why is this even an argument? It's not like I voted for someone who I didn't already suspect.

On further analysis of the ThinkTank list that everyone has been looking at, I do have to note something:

Okay, so Kain's age explains a lot. I'm still put off by his style, but maturity does make a difference.

1. karnos
2. KainTepes
3. Think Tank (hydra of Pine and ThinkBig)
4. TierShift
5. Aelin
6. TheRealGin-N-Tonic
7. Spade_Ace
8. Hiraki

Removing ourself (a strange word I just invented to represent the 2=1 aspect of hydra'ing) and the ICs, I get this list:

1. karnos
2. KainTepes
4. TierShift
7. Spade_Ace

I get a pretty distinctly Town vibe from Hiraki. It's been a long time since I played with him, but I'm going to trust my instincts for now on him.

1. karnos
2. KainTepes
7. Spade_Ace

75% of this is scum. Removing TierShift, he's remained Townish...

1. karnos
2. KainTepes
7. Spade_Ace

Bam. Game solution.

I think there is just some bad editing here. Examine the third and fourth lists - they are identical. However, in the post, Think Tank is clearly noting who he is getting rid of and the reasons for it (see the underlined portions). The correct version, in my opinion, should look like the following:

Spoiler:

Removing ourself (a strange word I just invented to represent the 2=1 aspect of hydra'ing) and the ICs, I get this list:

1. karnos
2. KainTepes
4. TierShift
7. Spade_Ace

8. Hiraki

I get a pretty distinctly Town vibe from Hiraki. It's been a long time since I played with him, but I'm going to trust my instincts for now on him.

1. karnos
2. KainTepes

4. TierShift

7. Spade_Ace

75% of this is scum. Removing TierShift, he's remained Townish...

1. karnos
2. KainTepes
7. Spade_Ace

Think Tank, feel free to correct me. I didn't think it was hard to read or understand. The people who are looking at this have clearly not read the post and just noticed a small discrepancy and jumped on it. Otherwise, I guess the scum team is Me/TS/Think Tank

@Kain: I would like your thoughts on what I present above if you had the same confusions.

@Mod: Definitely not being a hardass - we appreciate it lol

@Gin: Have fun!

[Hiraki]

Nothing but walls. Can't have a real conversation that way. Fake way to look towny at this point in the game.

I'm having a conversation with several people - just because I post comprehensively, and you haven't read my posts, does not mean that discussion has been brought that way - besides 80 is a perfect point of that.

1) His only reason for voting against me was cos I called his Post 67 as fluff, which it indeed was.

It's page 5 - I'm sure I can just accuse you of doing the world and back at this point...somehow?

2) He gives a definition of the meaning of fluff and uses that definition to defend everything. He says, "For the purposes of fluff, I would think that it is pretty agreed that these are points that provide no content and no information to anyone. No, the definition of Fluff is:- "writing perceived as trivial or superficial." It could provide content but it is either not useful or not justified with reasons.

OK - so I'm sure you're going to explain why my post was fluff again, right?

If he had mentioned this initially,which he didn't, then I wouldn't have called him out on that.

This is

misunderstanding

- not fluff. I'm sorry I didn't spoonfeed you?

This makes it seem as if he has a slight scum lean on Pine. But he then goes on to defend ThinkTank saying that ThinkTank probably made an error in his list. So do you scumlean Pine or Townlean Pine??

Scumline - I'm sorry I read ThinkTank's post and tried to piece together the pieces?

No, we have clearly read the post and noticed the error but we wanted to know what sort of "town vibes" he got from you.

Don't speak on behalf of others - Kain literally says that this is a reason she is voting me.

Seems as if he is trying too hard to be town. Esp when Mod's comment was not directed at him.

I have to say that regardless of my alignment, this is a shit comment. I am actually a person and pulling something like this to say that I'm trying to manipulate my posts is really unappreciative. If you're going to accuse me of things, please keep it relevant to the game.

Please note that Spade's vote is L-1.

[Hiraki]

Is my count off? I don't think that was hammer.

Nope - I screwed up. I think I'm grateful for it more than anything. I am curious - do you still think I'm scum?

@TS - care to say anything more about me or did you just want to quick hammer there and act stupid tomorrow? If there's fluff in this post, it's right here Spade.

Unvote, Vote: TierShift

[Hiraki]

@Mod: Just for consistencies sake in later days, 102 should have a vote on Spade from me rather than me not voting as per post 80.

[Hiraki]

Spade's hammer was probably the least scummiest thing he's done all game.

I want to examine a few things but I do not trust TS' reads after he pulled a stunt like that as town. I could've sworn he did that just so he could get the vengekill on D2.

Top scumread is still Spade but I don't like that ThinkTank is all over him too.

[Hiraki]

You're misreading what I'm saying.

He did that (as assumed scum) so he could get the vengekill while getting a mislynch on D1. This goes from:

3 v 5 (with 2 confirmed)

to a ML (never happened but just to entertain the thouht)

3 v 4 (with 2 confirmed)

to a scumlynch with a confirmed townie down

2 v 3 (with 1 confirmed)

Odds become a little better for fake-TSscum. Especially with TS' shaky stature rather than playing it well, per se. Since he wasn't scum, this discussion is pretty irrelevant.

[Hiraki]

Okay, I think I got you. You are saying he was going for a miss lynch, expecting to get lynched the following day, which would give him the vengekill. Okay.


No, that is terrible logic.

Yeah - and he flipped town - I'm sure he must be the world's smartest player to pull this one off. My point was also that TS was being suspected. It's not like I was going to unvote him anyway - I was just doing some basic theory from my end trying to justify everything.

Why are you always so hostile towards me with these really weak bases? I honestly can't read you because

everything

I do is just scummy to you.

[Hiraki]

Spade must be scum,, i believe THINKTANK,, VOTE: Spade....

so i believe SPADE's wagon built SO FAST is because scum is bussing SCUM PARTNERS............ so i suggest we still lynch SPADE today,, but dont give any extra town cred to thinktank or KARNOS for voting spade,,

Is ThinkTank a scumread or a townread for you Kain? I can understand how you get both opinions from both sides but it fits much better if you think he's a scumread.

[Hiraki]

A town confirmed IC seems to agree with your thinking. Terrible logic doesn't mean you are scum, but the way you are being defensive about it makes me wonder.

Are you just going to ignore the question that vilifies this statement?

[Hiraki]

No clue where I could've gotten that from--

You're misreading what I'm saying.

He did that (as assumed scum) so he could get the vengekill while getting a mislynch on D1. This goes from:

Alright, I might have missed a vote yesterday, but you seem really confused.

How on earth can scum get a miss lynch and a vengekill? It just doesn't work that way. The vengekill is triggered by a scum being lynched.

When the first Mafia Goon is lynched, they get a return kill at a town player.

Okay, I think I got you. You are saying he was going for a miss lynch, expecting to get lynched the following day, which would give him the vengekill. Okay.


No, that is terrible logic.

Spade & Hiraki for scum.

VOTE: Ace_Spade

oh wait

[Hiraki]

I'm sure any Sherlock Holmes could've deduced that from what you said.

It's only a shame that none of us here, at least so I believe, are Sherlock Holmes.

[Hiraki]

You shouldn't assume. I'm not sure where I am at the moment and you're definitely not on my 100% town list.

[Hiraki]

Perhaps because I need to establish if it's a fake read? I did that pretty hard in D1 when you called me out for being scum for "posting walls" but then switched.

But now that I reflect and look back on it, you switched onto TierShift and now you're on Spade.

Btw, assuming that I didn't miscount yet again, Spade is at L-1

I'm not willing to hammer, while still scumreading Spade, based on two conditions:

1) There is definitely not enough content to end the day today. Aelin - mind giving something more comprehensive?
2) I have some problems with the quickness of the wagon that I want to examine. I think that Spade's actions constitute him as scum but it would be stupid to not look at the game overall to see if he's being ployed.

I do have to also admit that since no one has quickhammered (and this is something I probably shouldn't say until later for that reason but whatever) that either:

1) Spade is scum
2) Everyone on the wagon is scum

So we have that going for us at least.

[Hiraki]

With that - I'm willing to get rid of precondition 2 for hammering. Not very reasonable for the entire scumteam to be on this wagon, especially since I do think Kain is town.

I agree and would like the ICs to say something before hammering though.

[Hiraki]

I'm about to go out so I'm not going to adhere to your request about scumreading quite just yet but I have a question for you Gin:

Do you find it sus that the scumteam didn't hop on your vote either?

[Hiraki]

Ok so
Hiraki if Spade is your top scumread why will you not hammer him

phone posting but I clearly stated that I wanted your opinion before hammering

Vengekill could have gone both ways before gin's latest posting tbh

[Hiraki]

Gin is venge kill by maf if not maf are fucking idiots

I forget if I mention this afterwards but I don't believe this to be a guaranteed. Either way - are you really trying to criticize me for not ending the day early after a hyper-accelerated D1? I'm just trying to make sure we don't make another mistake on LYLO.

And that as I thought Hiraki is scum

I hope you engage with more substance.

Lynch Spades today and then Hiraki tomorrow for victory

I think you should sit down and think of your thoughts before posting. 197 has many logical inconsistencies - regardless of my alignment. I'm not saying that you should change your opinion - if you think I'm scum for logical reasons, feel free to pursue them. I don't think 197 is logical in anyway at all though.

Who here does not think that Hiraki and Spade are not 2 of the last scum?

Think Tank is more likely scum than Hiraki IMO. They could both be scum, but I am more sure on Think Tank

Karnos - do you think it's possible that we're both town and Kain is the final scum? I've been doubting my scumread on you more than my scumread of Spade when I re-read and re-read. Especially our argument - it reeks of two players trying to get an understanding rather than insinuations.

It doesn't make sense that as town, you need to cuddle up to Aelin to make sure the conf!townie likes you. Don't shape your opinions in order to please the IC, post your actual opinions so we can tell what your true intentions are. Again, if town, you should have no problem being honest right?

This also stems my slighter than normal SR on Kain. I don't think normal scumtells and towntells can be applied to Kain which makes 206 and 208 a real eye-opener based on the appeal to confirmed ICs.

Keep that in mind when examining posts like this:

whatever just policy lynch me and be done with it,, i dont feel like fighting with people who keep calling me STUPID,, i am tired of it........

no............... this cannot BE.......... TOWN OF SALEM is a very difficult game where i have to be AGGRESSIVE to win,, though it looks like MAFIA SCUMMY is more difficult to play.......... many people say things with big words that makes me CONFUSE but this way i can learn if people are more PATIENT WITH ME........,,

There's a clear roughness and I'm here to win attitude that fades away. Perhaps I'm being very stubborn though. 214 and onward throws off those feelings.

I've eliminated ThinkTank from the scum pool for post 25 and post 87. I couldn't connect ThinkTank to anyone besides Hiraki and Tier and half of those ended up being town.


That leaves

1) Karnos, Kain, Spade
2) Karnos, Kain, Hiraki
3) Karnos, Spade, Hiraki
4) Kain, Spade, Hiraki

Curious on how you eliminated ThinkTank tbh but that's your opinion.

In response to your question about scum reads:

1) Spade - I've been over this one. If you'd like me to be formal and repeat my thoughts, that's OK but I think I've posted enough.

2) ThinkTank/Kain - I think these are 2 and 3, respectively, but I am willing to reconsider based on what you think about Think Tank. I would like you to guide me through that. I have looked at Karnos through a more objective lens and I do not see him being scum. He is objectively scummy but not for the right reasons for being scum. I can get into this if you would like.

Reasoning for the flip on the Karnos read and the Kain read are above.

[Hiraki]

There are 3 town alive. Aelin, me, and one other.

This almost comprehensively flips my townread on you. Not even everything else in your post, just this. It feels very very fake.

I have looked at Karnos through a more objective lens and I do not see him being scum. He is objectively scummy but not for the right reasons for being scum. I can get into this if you would like.

Yes please

This is going to get a bit comprehensive - which is what I need and you want as well.

I'm not very confident in this anymore (Karnos scumread) but I believe that our conversations have been town v town (again, I'm not sure anymore). Also in recollection, these points didn't stand out to me more but they get rid of that feeling.

Nothing but walls. Can't have a real conversation that way. Fake way to look towny at this point in the game.

Okay, I think I got you. You are saying he was going for a miss lynch, expecting to get lynched the following day, which would give him the vengekill. Okay.


No, that is terrible logic.

When I first read it (i.e. first vote/scumread), I felt that these are scummy. On second read (i.e. TR), I thought this could be his posting. On third reading (keeping Page 12 into account), these are not town moves.

You are going down the wrong path. I know I am town, that means think tank and hiraki can't be both town. There is a flaw in your logic.

This post is the deciding factor for me. It's a complete 180 from his previous tone from D2 and D3. That usually constitutes scum. There's a difference between explaining a case and changing tone. This is the latter.

Hiraki, you said you think Kain is town but also said it was impossible for all 3 scum to be on Tier's wagon

You're going to need to expand your question.

Kain also isn't on this wagon. On that theory, Kain would be the most suitable out of the people off the wagon to be scum. In fact, keep in mind that Spade

hard

defended Kain on D1 when the PL was in its early stages. Its my belief now that it was used more as a discipline tool (might be the wrong word but hopefully you get the idea) based on how everyone dropped it (another thing that helps my TT TR):

1. Kain is playing markedly different from his other games which tbh is not a good sign. He is giving more input and less random posts which is not his usual style
2. Look how quickly TT and Kain mounted pressure on each other and then equally quickly removed it. Seems to have worked since Tonic has town read both of them.
3. In post 63, Kain says he thought it was easy to pull of a PL. No it never was and it never will be in a game with just 8 members.
4. All this makes it feel as if the, 'PL' was just a ploy.
5. Hiraki your post seems to contain a lot of fluff as if you are trying to contribute. The only thing I agree with you is about Tonic. If I didn't know Tonic was an IC, my vote would have been on him.

Which means that I'm bumping up my Kain read to 100% scum. I don't think we all scumread Spade because we just felt like it. He was pretty clearly scum based on early postings and didn't even post in D2. I have to also conclude that if you're obvious scum, you're not going to be playing the game at a high level - it'll be easier to see partner interactions. I'm sure about this one.

If you want my comprehensive list of who scum is, it would be:

1) Kain
2) Karnos
3) TT

For ThinkTank, I mainly had that on my prior list because of my prior reads and I didn't go into it. I'm not sure if I mentioned it but I'm never really a fan of hydras due to the fact that sometimes their content can vary. For example, I usually like Pine's content more than ThinkBig's because I can get a solid read out of Pine rather than ThinkBig.

Their posting in D1 is generally not good, as I indicated previously.

However, going on from there, everything is actually helpful rather than sort of not really helpful.

The biggest thing swaying me from the Karnos/TT argument is this from Kain:

but the ANGRINESS is a town angriness at me,, and i think from past expericne SCUM will not attack me first,, they want me to survive a while for some reason.... also,, i am a TOWN,,

This may be the deciding factor between the two based on the flip. Not that it matters either way.

I feel like this post is a bit jambled because it reflects my overall opinion of the game and how actually confident I am in my reads since I've changed them so much. I also went back and edited a little to add in parantheses wherever I felt that a thread was confusing. If you need more clarification, feel free to ask. However, I am 100% confident in Kainscum, especially after the Spade flip.

[Hiraki]

I'm not sure WTF he is talking about here. This just seems like nonsense. Drunk post maybe?

That's the kicker. This case is fabricated. I'm 100% sure the scumteam is Karnos and Kain.

[Hiraki]

You are literally going to each post, hitting something that sounds good, and then just posting it. I can refute every point that you made above with another post that comes right after - I will do this but I need to make something very clear.

You are creating a scumread on me rather than looking at my posts comprehensively and creating a scumread on me. One is town, the other is scum.

Calling my post scummy isn't helping

anyone

.

[Hiraki]

do you still think Kain is town?

If you want my comprehensive list of who scum is, it would be:

1) Kain
2) Karnos
3) TT

2) ThinkTank/Kain - I think these are 2 and 3, respectively, but I am willing to reconsider based on what you think about Think Tank. I would like you to guide me through that. I have looked at Karnos through a more objective lens and I do not see him being scum. He is objectively scummy but not for the right reasons for being scum. I can get into this if you would like.

(no)

Are you okay with lynching think tank?

If you want my comprehensive list of who scum is, it would be:

1) Kain
2) Karnos
3) TT

(no)

If this is how scum creates a fake scum read, how would the process be different from town? Rely entirely on memory without quoting at all? You aren't being very sensible.

Really? That's how you build a case? Throw darts at the wall and hope they stick? Not look at the information at hand, make connections, see what's really going on, find the flaws and inconsistencies that are actually there?

You put a post in a case from Think Tank that you thought was drunkposting but was only helping Gin summarize his lynch patterns. That's fabrication - you haven't looked at the context of the quote but since it looks a little fishy, why not just stick it up there and make it look scummy? It might work - just not this time. (i'm counting on you Gin)

Maybe she was a little bit too close to the mark?

Maybe so you create this very argument? Do you think it was weird that Aelin had no reason or rhyme for any of her posts and just out of the blue scumread me?

[Hiraki]

I also don't think it's very wise to focus on the vengekill - Spade's flip condemning Kain is much more important than guesstimating why the scum vengekilled someone.

[Hiraki]

No, that's from an objective standpoint.

You literally stated that Aelin's logic faulty. Why on earth would you trust someone with faulty reads? Because they flipped town? That's not a suitable reason for me and I don't think it should be suitable for anyone.

But I'm glad you entertained my point about the possibility that it was done for the very opposite reason.

Post-edit:

Yes, because making a mistake either means that you are:

1) Drunk
2) Scum

There is a mistake in the post. You are correct. I don't think anyone is basing their reads on that post. Are you?

[Hiraki]

A bit of a logical leap doesn't mean the conclusion is wrong

You're right, here are some other example of that:

I painted the sky blue, therefore it is blue.

Mafiascum is spelt that way because I decided so.

Perhaps this makes things a little clearer? This is literally Aelin posting. Meanwhile, Spade does give reasoning for his reads and they're pretty implicitly biased.

and given nobody else was pointing out any flaw in the logic maybe nobody saw what I see.

Yeah? Please tell me Aelin's basis for her reads. I'll wait.

Remember I also pointed out where your logic was flawed, and you disregarded my opinion immediately.

Not sure what you mean here. Clarify?

Interesting how you are willing to trust my read in this case, when it favors your position.

Again, clarify?

but it would be an exaggeration to say it is the BASE of my read.

OK - so then you understand how it looks really stupid that it comes up in your case right? I'm trying to figure things out and I'm pretty sure I have them down but you are screwing up my reads no matter what you do because you're flipflopping and acting like you never did.

[Hiraki]

OK - so then you understand how it looks really stupid that it comes up in your case right? I'm trying to figure things out and I'm pretty sure I have them down but you are screwing up my reads no matter what you do because you're flipflopping and acting like you never did.

I'm redacting this - I didn't read your post quite right.

So getting back to what I said, if you make a mistake, you are either drunk or scum? Do you think that Gin is going to base his scumread on the number of times your name came up in a list?

[Hiraki]

[quote="In post 312, TheRealGin-N-Tonic"][/quote]I can't do that anymore. Voting Think Tank is a mistake. I urge you to get off quickly.

[Hiraki]

wow thank you quote tags lemme fix the above

VOTE: Think

Hiraki and Kranos, your argument is a TvT, just look at it after taking a step back

I can't do that anymore. Voting Think Tank is a mistake. I urge you to get off quickly. Kain is 100% scum while Karnos v TT is a 50/50 split down the middle.

[Hiraki]

TT is town the other two aren't?

[Hiraki]

If you can call me confirmed town based off of Spade's posts, then why can't you call Kain confirmed scum?

[Hiraki]

1. Kain is playing markedly different from his other games which tbh is not a good sign. He is giving more input and less random posts which is not his usual style

2. Look how quickly TT and Kain mounted pressure on each other and then equally quickly removed it. Seems to have worked since Tonic has town read both of them.

3. In post 63, Kain says he thought it was easy to pull of a PL. No it never was and it never will be in a game with just 8 members.

4. All this makes it feel as if the, 'PL' was just a ploy.
5. Hiraki your post seems to contain a lot of fluff as if you are trying to contribute. The only thing I agree with you is about Tonic. If I didn't know Tonic was an IC, my vote would have been on him.

PEDIT: there seems to be many posts. Will go through them and reply.

This is bussing 101. Don't do too much to put a vote on and don't do so little that when you do put the vote on, it looks like you never tried.

[Hiraki]

but there is nothing coming out of that hydra that has actually been helpful

I agree with you here - which is the worst part of everything here and is why my reads have been flopping a lot. However, ThinkTank isn't 100% scum. I can't say that to a 100% degree compared to Kain. The same thing happened with my Karnos read - even after that conversation, I'm really really not sure what to think if he's actually scum or just not thinking straight.

Today we need to lynch 100% scum to win. Kain is 100% scum. The other two are 50/50.

[Hiraki]

I need to go - but I sincerely hope this will change your mind. If I'm conf!town to you, then you shouldn't see this as scummy but just a last ditch effort for me not to lose this game. If you do, then I guess my gambit failed. Kain will be online soon and will QL with the other scum unless we get this done now.

VOTE: Kain

[Hiraki]

AELIN was the only smart town in this game

Aelin was quite honestly the worst.

If not for the confirmed IC, there is NO way anyone could townrrad that play.

Other than that, both sides did as equally as well. It was a very hard struggle in the end.

[Hiraki]

I'm scum buddy