Open 662: Fire and Ice (Game Over)

[Realeo]

how often do you get mislynched btw

All the fucking time.

UNVOTE:

then i'll give you botd because i'vescumread you in like every single game i've played with you and been wrong every time.

Scumbuddies.

What's wrong with benefit of the doubt?

[Realeo]

BK, I still think it's a bad idea to assume scum tried to kill someone specific. The logic makes sense and everything, but if it's wrong, you're basing everything on a wrong assumption. And there's no way to prove it ever. Without that, your case is that lo voted you for maybe looking like you're trying to blend in which is weak. lo very well could have been scum, but your case just isn't as strong as you think it is. Like I get where you're coming from but you're assuming way too much.

Now that you say that, my case on BK's scum frustation is explained and no longer a case
UNVOTE:

[Realeo]

how often do you get mislynched btw

All the fucking time.

UNVOTE:

then i'll give you botd because i'vescumread you in like every single game i've played with you and been wrong every time.

Scumbuddies.

What's wrong with benefit of the doubt?

It's an excuse to not lynch Kuroi.

This alarmed me to remind myself about my GE case at KMD.

[Realeo]

WHAT

No. I am supposed to be the on asking that.

WHAT

Like explain. That's a very linear logic.

[Realeo]

I mean, Aristo said that he was scumread all the time, which means there is error in the way of Transcend evaluates his scumreads, so Transcend change his scumread parameter because it's not working.

Like, that is a towny action.

[Realeo]

So that's it? Boom! Shut out of the window? Phew? Phew?

I don't understand the "locked and confidence part". Where does that comes from?

[Realeo]

VOTE: SS

Let it be going down to POE.

L-1

[Realeo]

VOTE: SS

Uh... I should have known better when your name is not in the VC.

[Realeo]

VOTE: SS

The worst part is you can actually be town doing this.

[Realeo]

I thought your case on me was that my frustration at the off-topic dog talk spam was "scum frustration"? So how does what KMD said here, which has nothing to do with that, dismiss your case on me? Help me out here.

I felt that your frustation is off-reach, Joshz is more natural, but KMD reminded me that you're in conf!bias mode. That changes things a lot.

[Realeo]

So we already have WIFOM =/

VOTE: havingfitz

VOTE: BK201

So unless someone is using odd logic, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY kills are being aimed at SRs: culted was a MAJOR nonentity. So:
Scum was PR hunting or
Scum was killing lol-info targets
I'd like to amend the possibility of the second option.

I am not comfortable with your conclusion since we only know 1 NK, however, that may explain my theory at that BK hyphothesis as you NK target wrong.

Some of the D3 opening game vote in this game doesn't make sense.

VOTE: transcend

Congratulation! You won Confuzing and Contradictory Vote of The Day Award

Didn't you imply you TR Transcend during D2's GE awkward logic?

[Realeo]

So you borked and vote the wrong person or is it a trap?

[Realeo]

VOTE: kuroihf

If you iso him, he is being consistent.

[Realeo]

he could easily just be like nm/ss/culted/fitz and lurk/troll instead, hes already the former. he didnt need to do that in the first place!

You was breaking Gamma's logic at Transcend-Kuroi

[Realeo]

Official Vote Count 3.1

KuroiXHF (2)

- Kmd4390, Joshz

Gamma Emerald (2)

- Transcend, Not_Mafia

Transcend (1)

- KuroiXHF

BK201 (1)

- havingfitz

havingfitz (1)

- BK201

Not Voting (3)

- Gamma Emerald, Realeo, Aristophanes

With 10 players alive, it takes

4

votes to lynch

You have (expired on 2017-01-16 11:41:39) until deadline.

I correct that for you. We got a pair of lolhammerer who can turn a L-2 into L-0 like a magic trick.

[Realeo]

Hey Transcend. You play the AtE card so hard today! What's up with you chiwawa spirit?

[Realeo]

I also want to vote Realeo. I'd expect town him to respond to any number of my concerns against him.

Where?

[Realeo]

If this is your concern...

I am so confused.

My concern would be I don't understand your concern.

[Realeo]

Hey Transcend. You play the AtE card so hard today! What's up with you chiwawa spirit?

[Realeo]

And Culted did not crumb any doc target...

[Realeo]

I always want to lynch KMD, but I cannot tell why...It's a weird vibe...

[Realeo]

I have a feeling that KMD is genuine scumhunting, but the logic feels awkward.

I just can't tell if it's play style or scum trying to busy.

[Realeo]

VOTE: Transcend

I have been keep thinking this.

Back in d1, I end the day voting Transcend. The reason is that Transcend

for no reason

suddenly saw me as a lynch bait.

You say you saw me as a lynch bait and you say that's a gut read.

But during the time where I don't talk a lot and you unvote me, the only thing I said was "I want guacamole" + prompting people to explain it. Nothing to gut read unless I say something nice.

And you're the first(?) to unvote me.

You're not wise town making the right read, you are scum who is quickly evading my wagon, afraid to be called 0pp0rtunistic scum.

The fact that when Transcend, after re-reading my iso, read back my WTF entry and scumread me again indicates that he saw me as a lynch bait for no logical reason. In other word, the reason he saw my as a lynch bait,

was he was scum want to jump of the wagon first.

The logical reasoning to saw me as lynch bait was non-existent in the first place, so when he re-reads the iso, he failed to townread me.

If town!Transcend really saw me as a lynch bait, when he saw my iso, he would be reminded by his scumfuck feeling. But as he continue reading, should also be reminded why he thought me why I was lynch bait

The fact that

1) Transcend pursue me with fitz
2) BK confirms it

means the reason to think I was lynchbait was non-existant in the first place.

This is scum. Transcend can be erratic, but you can follow his thinking process. He can buddy anyone as he want and drop those buddy as he want. Bo no matter hwo erratic, you can follow his thinking process.

His doesn't adds up.

[Realeo]

I mean, look at his d3 read.

LOOK AT HIS TIME STAMP!

6:48

Fuck i read the first 4 posts, why did i town read this?


VOTE: Fitz

6:52

Okay finished the Io iso.

This slot is scum imo.

Gamma is still scum too.

As for the other two idk.

Notice that these two post are 4 minutes difference.

Transcend is reading Io's Iso, Fitz's Iso and (presumbaly) Gamma's Iso in 4 minutes? Is that even possible

6:55

I'm not too sure about Kuroi being a scum flip anymore. Time will tell.

Pretty sure BK and Joshz are town here.

No idea how to read NM. Is he town? Guys?

Realeo could be scum too. The beginning of his game was a giant wtf.

Kmd for fourth scum? I remember him being pretty towny.

Aristo? I haven't made apples and oranges of him yet.

Blurgh.

This post is 3 minutes difference.

Assuming he iso them, he iso 6 people is 3 minutes. Even if it's not iso, how do you skimread 6 people in 3 minutes? 15 seconds already for writing the post

6:56

Blurgh actually bk could be scum. Idk. It's time for a flip imo.

Would say with relatively good confidence that Josh is town.

Faking meltdown...in 1 minute. BK iso is large. How do you skimread BK in 1 minute

7:00

I think Aristo is scum

What say you guys?

Io jumped off of Realeo too early and the hop on was kinda awkward

Aristo has barely interacted with gamma here.

Idk ideas hmmm

7:13

Fuck it gamma and Fitz are scum, just not on the same team

Joshz is town

I don't see NM on either scum team.

Kmd is likely town I'll need to re iso

I think Kuroi is town, but I'm not gonna be too reliant on that read.

BK is definitely not with Fitz and probably not with gamma. I think his scum hunting is genuine this roll.

That leaves Realeo and Aristo.

Realeo/Fitz
Gamma/Aristo

Ftw?

He's faking desperation. When you consider the timestamp, he's faky as fuck.

Lynch this dog.

[Realeo]

I thought the theory of Gamma NK is stupid?

That's a hypochrite.

[Realeo]

Lol

Come on, start make some excuse. We know your bark is far worse than your bite.

[Realeo]

I believe he started voting Gamma D2 after the whole "suspicion was dropped, but why!? question started circulating. It is possible he got scared and voted to show consistency in reads, and that he hadn't been influenced by a night result.

Absolutely correct!

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

The most important point is that he voted Gamma Emerald when (1) GE didn't talk for the last 5 pages before the GE vote and (2) A lot of shit happen during this 5 pages (ie. The discussion of GE, the Amish tell.) Instead of dodging the attention, he can just vote the shit!

Exactly like my case! He suddenly townread me just because I said "I want guacamole" and start asking people to explain.

[Realeo]

Lol you're just an enormous scum fuck.

We know your bark is far worse than your bite.

[Realeo]

...I was not the hammer, was I?

L-3

[Realeo]

Oh i thought i got lynched hmm

Pro tip: If NM is not on your wagon, high chance you're not lynched.

pedit: That's L-2

[Realeo]

Warning: The next vote is prolly a pseudo hammer, which is highly encouraged. Considering that N_M will hammer and having fitz is yet to vote

[Realeo]

If you're so sure I'm scum, why the hell would you give even the slightest of a damn about me being lynched

Because I want you to be lynched?

[Realeo]

Warning: The next vote is prolly a pseudo hammer,

which is highly encouraged

. Considering that N_M will hammer and having fitz is yet to vote

[Realeo]

We're 14 days to Donald Trump inaguration.

[Realeo]

Realeo, scum don't need to try to stay busy in this setup. They have another team to catch.

If that's the case, that means that town would be player who remain inactive.

Which means, according to KMD, inactive player are town.

Because inactive player are town, KMD would never lynch inactive player.

Oops, I forgot. Kmd lead a lynch wagon on SS, who is inactive. My bad.

Spoiler: Notabene

Sorry if you're offended, but in D3, I am 100% in #sarcasmgamestrong mode

[Realeo]

Realeo, scum don't need to try to stay busy in this setup. They have another team to catch.

And how does this argument relate to my wagon @ Transcend? If he's faking busyness, he's town?

[Realeo]

And my argument is not faking business, he's faking read.

[Realeo]

[snip]

So what is the point? Do you read my case? According to my case, why did he lie his read?

[Realeo]

Here's something that is something I can prove given there's multiball:

The lynch on me has been quite quick. No one's pushing against it. Now Scum Team A doesn't care because they know it's not from them. Scum Team B doesn't care because they know it's not from them. This is barely a common enemy between both scum.

From the other point of view, the likelihood of me being scum is extremely minor.

I can see your argument, but the day is early. There is no need for mafia to defend his teammate yet.

[Realeo]

VOTE: Realeo For reasons already stated.

I asked you to clarify what confuses you!

Do you know that communication is a two-way streets?

[Realeo]

You didn't. I check your iso.

[Realeo]

If this is your concern...

I am so confused.

My concern would be I don't understand your concern.

[Realeo]

VOTE: kuroihf

VOTE: kuroihf

If you iso him, he is being consistent.

i was just throwin votes around, though if you could quote where i tr transcend thatd be appreciated because i dont.

I am so confused.

Seriously, I don't see what is confusing.

[Realeo]

Lol, concern from d2. So much for communication.

The problem of your so-called concern was it was from your POV concern--so I feel no need to intervene read. I read people by their consistency of their read so I try not mess up with them. Concern would be something like Transcend who barrack me for nothing.

I can't still address your concern. If you (realistically) expect response, you need to elaborate.

For example:

So can you, Realeo. You're good at this game. This is lazy. This isn't normal you.

I cannot address this concern because you make this game based on my computer calculation skill, which you learn from Death Note Mafia as setup reviewer (btw, we got scummies nom!) and The Purge,

which is scum meta

, so logically speaking, I am town for violating diligent scum meta.

For some reason, this seems to ping me. This doesn't feel like natural play from Realeo, even though I have a difficult time trying to put this into words.

This also needs elaboration, especially since you know that I am not native speaker and I am not psychic.

[Realeo]

EBWOP

I cannot address this concern because you make this meta read based on my computer calculation skill, which you learn from Death Note Mafia as setup reviewer (btw, we got scummies nom!) and The Purge, which is scum meta, so logically speaking, I am town for violating diligent scum meta.

[Realeo]

Moreoever, I don't understand how does computer calculation skill equates to diligent scumhunting? I had made a large case as diligent!Realeo (Mislead 2, my only newbies game) but you don't have meta on me being diligent. Your meta at me is being diligent setup speccer, not scumhunter.

And I explicitly avoid setup speccing this game in D1 which causes tantrum, so if we want to follow your logic, I am town.

[Realeo]

Another EBWOP

Moreoever, I don't understand how does computer calculation skill equates to diligent scumhunting? I had made a large case as diligent!Realeo (for instance: Mislead 2, my only newbies game, this game) but you don't have meta on me being diligent scumhunter. Your meta at me is scum!Realeo being diligent setup speccer, not scumhunter.

And I explicitly avoid setup speccing this game in D1 which causes tantrum, so if we want to follow your logic, I am town.

[Realeo]

From other game:

Gonna be in surgery for the next few hours sitting in the office rn so brb

Expect V/LA?

[Realeo]

And I believe that does not violates talking ongoing game because I do not talk about the context of the other game.

[Realeo]

I no longer like snow. I'm making it my mission to eliminate the shit out of the ice mafia this game.

Can I invite you to Indonesia?

A tropical country with 365 days of sunlight, ensuring good tan

and no snow

. In addition to that, excellent currency exchange from USD <-> Rupiah ensuring affordable lifestyle.

[Realeo]

I no longer like snow. I'm making it my mission to eliminate the shit out of the ice mafia this game.

Are you ice mafia? Fire!Transcend makes no sense because why would Transcend kill his buddy.

[Realeo]

According to you

Okay finished the Io iso.

This slot is scum imo.

Gamma is still scum too.

As for the other two idk.

but according to this

btw gamma is still scum but he can get lynched d2 this time

VOTE: nn30


catch-up was awful

{

Io

, Not_Mafia}

Io is top townread? Wowzah

{Joshz, culted}

{Realeo}

{BK201, PenguinPower, Clemency}

{Rory}

{SnarkySnowman}

{Gamma Emerald, nn30}

smt like this feels a-ok

why is io/fitz scum?

[Realeo]

BTW, if Transcend flips scum, Gamma Emerald is almost confirmed town.

[Realeo]

Also....are your reads usually wrong?

Just know that I've lost a fuck ton of games and won a few :/

[Realeo]

Explain then how your mind change!

[Realeo]

What changes in your reread?

[Realeo]

So the thing about me being pinged by your play is that from what I know in Death Note Mafia conceptualization and reviewing and everything, I've been able to tell what your normal personality is like. It isn't so much about being able to find out how well you scum hunt as much as it is knowing how you normally act. (Although I do earnestly believe being a left-brained type of person helps you find scum.) You've eluded me in Purge Mafia but that's because I didn't know how to handle you, and the play is somewhat similar, I believe.

I am trying to imagine the appropriate action for me?

In Gamma Emerald case and In Rory case, please. I can't imagine the correct action

ala Kuroi

given the condition of the game

[Realeo]

Your demand, Kuroi, only makes sense in game if the game has an ideal situation which is (1)diverse discussion and (2) active player

(2) is obviously not the case in this game

And (1), although The Purge was a shit fest, it was the right direction. We always have setup spec and (retarded) scum hunting two topics running together ~ Whether almost and shos is scum? This game is more one topic per a time. It's quite one topic per a time in this game?

The Purge and this game is not an apple to apple comparison. If you say, "You're not being optimal Realeo," well ok. But when the environment is not optimal, you can't expect me being optimal as well.

[Realeo]

Here's another way to see it. For me to be able to conceptualize thing optimally, I need data.

I need data, not only from the topic in general, but also from players.

In The Purge, it was quite a busy game right. The least speaking player, Pereginev, can still generate stand loudly.

In this game? We have Rory, NM, and SS.

I don't have enough data to perfectly conceptualize.

[Realeo]

SO WHAT IS IT ABOUT??? THE KEYWORD IS "CONCEPUTALIZATION" BUT I DON'T GET THE DIRECTION?

I mean, if I fail to conceputalize, I fail to be optimal right????

Yeah, Purge Mafia was a shit-fest... at night.

You need to see the perspective of Purge Mafia...from the scum.

[Realeo]

I mean, the reason I can conceptualize is because I have data right?

I can conceptualize Death Note Mafia becuase...I generate data with computer simulation right? If I didn't generate data, how do I conceptualize???

You haven't answer my question??? How do I suppose to effectively conceptualize in Gamma Emerald and rory case?

[Realeo]

@Kuroi

The only stand that Rory made was Gamma was "ew" for scumreading IO's response that is actualy RVS. After that, he becomes radio silent.

He made stab at BK & nn here and there but never explain it.

How do I conceptualize that?

You can said "Realeo, you can interrogate him!" But how do I interrogate someone who does not respond? I interrogate Transcend because he response.

[Realeo]

Hold on a second. Isnt gamma emerald one of those "on impulse player"?

That incentivizing bad thinggy prolly nai.

And this example is 7 pages deep. You can't expect me to make hi-grade analysis with 7 pages right?

I said so because I have meta at him. I try to conceptualize from my meta.

[Realeo]

@Kuroi

Your case is example-centric. As a result, I can deny that with another example.

The biggest example for counter case would be my analysis of scum if Gamma is NK target. I did a big analysis with BK. I think that is equal to The Purge confrontation of Me v shos in the setup spec battle. If you only skim it, go reread it. You see my "conceptualization".

Is that not conceptualization?

[Realeo]

If that is not conceptualization, please tell me which dictionary you're using. Unfortunately, I am not being sarcastic.

[Realeo]

Lol, Transcend is dodging my question.

[Realeo]

Lol, Transcend is dodging my question.

[Realeo]

Lol, Transcend is dodging my question.

[Realeo]

Lol, Transcend is dodging my question.

[Realeo]

Seriously. Answer my question.

[Realeo]

Seriously. Answer my question.

[Realeo]

Seriously. Answer my question.

[Realeo]

Seriously. Answer my question.

[Realeo]

What changed?

[Realeo]

Why suddenly call me lynch bait eventhough the only thing I said was " I want guacamole", in other word, how does "I want Guacamole?" is AI?

Why suddenly vote GE when GE didn't talk for the last 5 pages?

PEDIT: HOW DOES "I WANT GUACAMOLE?" IS TOWN VIBE?

[Realeo]

I have ways of reading people that no one but myself will ever understand

Even if I don't understand your case, still two contradictions:

(1) If you get town vibe "I want guacamole" from d1 reread, how come you don't get the town vibe back in d3 reread?

(2) How do you get scum vibe from someone who didn't post for the last 5 pages?

Spoiler: Reminder about my case to other people if you're lazy

The reason why Transcend called me lynchbait was not because he was weird town who suddenly has the revelation about me being town. The actual reason is scum!Transcend wants to avoid suspicion so he quickly unvote me.

He is the first one to unvote me.

The reason why Transcend voted GE is

also to avoid suspicion.

The function of the timestamp proof is to show you that Transcend has no town logic to called me lynchbait in the past. Check my iso for more explanation.

KMD said that I am wrong that the only reason for mafia to fake read is (1)to avoid activity suspicion which is impossible due to nature of multiball. However, that's false because there is another reason which is (2)to avoid suspicion. With the NK discussion in play, (2) is in play regardless whether Gamma is the actual NK target.

[Realeo]

Hey guys, without getting personal I don't live somewhere that has internet access anymore. I will go on here as often as I can get that mcdonalds wifi or public library. Also I haven't figured out the equivalent of a space bar on my phone so bare with me.

Would you mind proxy your vote to me? I would use your vote @ Transcend?

[Realeo]

Realeo, you and I are talking about two different things. I wasn't responding to your Transcend case. But to answer your question about my opinion on it:
-by showing that he skimmed rather than reading isos, you showed that he's lazy. Not that he's scum, but that he's lazy. *shrug*
-I don't think it's unreasonable that he changed his mind on a read
-I don't see why you're so sure he's faking anything.

I DIDN'T SAY HE IS LAZYY!!!

I said he fake it,

to avoid suspicion

. You never respond to me about that.

[Realeo]

Kmd, is your game plan is to white knight Transcend and mysteriously deadline bus Transcend in the future?

[Realeo]

KMD, if you are town, stop skimreading my case. I am flustered that whatever I say, you just rebuttal it.

[Realeo]

So you're satisfied with your case at Kuroi but not satisfied with my case Transcend?

And the reason you're satisfied is with your case at Kuroi case is only because of....

Amished tell

How does Amished tell is stronger than my case?

If you say may case is not solid, I would expect you to not vote Kuroi. There only reason you're not voting Kuroi is you're waiting for Aristo's case--which is another word to say you would vote Kuroi later.


I'm trying to understand your double standard.

[Realeo]

my god you're quite a guy

BK & Joshz ran a fiasco in D2.

My turn.

[Realeo]

news flash:

both cases are wrong

news flash:

how does that relates?

[Realeo]

Wait. Is that confirmation that Gamma is not NK target?

#DevilsAdvocate

[Realeo]

Sorry. I was bored.

[Realeo]

Realeo please stop confbiasing me.

You do nothing to prove me wrong.

[Realeo]

Realeo please stop confbiasing me.

You do nothing to prove me wrong.

You do understand that your approach is no worse than Donald Trump?

"Trust me, I know the best about making job."

"Trust me, I know the best about steak."

"Trust me, only I know how I do"

[Realeo]

also i think scum is more motivated to lynch scum than town here js

*cough* D2 wagon *cough*

[Realeo]

My only concern about Not_Mafia is I don't remember him scumreading SnarkySnowman.

The problem is, it would be idiot of me to ask him of his read of a dead person.

[Realeo]

also i think scum is more motivated to lynch scum than town here js

Is this a scum claim saying "Yo! I am scum with Transcend!"

[Realeo]

I see.

[Realeo]

Seriously though. Can I have a counter wagon? I don't see a lucrative one.

The only counter wagon that I see here is Kuroi...for amished telll??? The another counter wagon that I see here is Notmafia...for nothing?

[Realeo]

nm is anti town and kuroi is rory

Yes, so?

There is something called elaboration, you know.

[Realeo]

Your self imposed deadline was 3 days ago. So Transcend and I are looking for help lynching you. You're too late.

Hey, remember this:

Um no. Inactivty usually has nothing to do with alignment.

[Realeo]

My case on Transcend is as Transcend the ice mafia. He's going to die now.

But we still need to solve Fire Mafia.

Let's have parrarel discussion happening, you poppycock.

Official Vote Count 1.10

nn30 (5)

:

culted

, Not_Mafia, Kmd4390,

SnarkySnowman

, Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald (4)

: Transcend, Rory, nn30, Io

Rory (2)

: Joshz, BK201

Not Voting (2)

- Aristophanes, Realeo

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

You have (expired on 2016-12-22 21:19:39) until deadline.[/color]

Official Vote Count 1.11

nn30 (7)

:

culted

, Not_Mafia, Kmd4390,

SnarkySnowman

, Gamma Emerald, BK201, Transcend

BK201 (2)

: Io, nn30

Gamma Emerald (1)

: Rory

Rory (1)

: Joshz

Not Voting (2)

- Aristophanes, Realeo

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

You have (expired on 2016-12-22 21:19:39) until deadline.

BK201, why you stopped the chase @ Rory in D2?

[Realeo]

Oh wait, you actually did! My bad.

[Realeo]

I'm keeping RicoSauve and NotMafia as fire mafia for the time being.

But NotMafia keep making me confuzed? Is he actually solving the game?

[Realeo]

EBWOP

I'm keeping RicoSauve and havingfitz as fire mafia for the time being.

But is RicoSauve actually solving the game?

[Realeo]

I'm putting RicoSauve in my hard townread.

[Realeo]

I'm canceling the fire mafia.

[Realeo]

And why do you assume Transcend is Ice Mafia specifically?

Tranacend main weapon is buddying.

Even if they pick up the doc tell, culted would be an asset, not a threat.

[Realeo]

How doea that relates?

[Realeo]

Kmds game. The one with shamu.

I expect you have the same attitude as scum and town.

Becauae if you dont, vedith would fry you.

[Realeo]

Kmds game. The one with shamu.

I expect you have the same attitude as scum and town.

Becauae if you dont, vedith would fry you.

btw do you know where vedith crawled to

I don't know Vedith IRL.

[Realeo]

It's funny that no one asked why I hard town read Not_Mafia.

[Realeo]

why do you hard tr NM

It involves a lot of concecptualization that probably you won't understand.

Heck, maybe I only the one who understand my conceptualization.

Only I understand how I townread

Thank you for asking though!

[Realeo]

I have ways of reading people that no one but myself will ever understand

[Realeo]

[Realeo]

Because I do townread NM

[Realeo]

I was betting on the possibility that you can read between the line.

Obviously, I'm wrong.

[Realeo]

I was betting on the possibility that you can read between the line.

Obviously, I'm wrong.

Transcend, you cannot seriously expect me to townread someone who refuses to explain his read? The last time someone refuses to do so in my moderated game, he rolled scum.

Spoiler: *cough*

*cough* Not Mafia *cough*

[Realeo]

Let the troll begins.

[Realeo]

Transcend, I know someone is trolling when their gameplay makes game quality @ EpicMafia seems like a relief.

Signing off.

[Realeo]

Also em is my home site. A few players from there have joined this site and kicked some massive ass. Epicmafia players are better than you'd think. Our games are on average 20 minutes, when these get drawn out for months. We have to think fast, we don't have as much time to construct our posts. We get reads fast we have to trust them. Anywho just pointing that out.

I didn't say that EM players are bad.

I said gameplay @ EM are bad.

I also come from em. Em is my home site.

But when the only running game is "Fancy Pants" except in peak time, which is midnight for me, you loses your interest.

Personally, the reason why I run Project Elo (check mafia forum) is because I miss competitiveness of competition lobby @ EM. I think my best run at competition lobby is I finished 7th--which is quite cool for someone with a noavi. "LYNCH THE NOAVI!"

This noavi went 10of10 on the first 2 days of the competition lobby. #TakeThatBastard

But the champ was SkillZ, which was crazy scumhunter. It is a pleasure to have a excellent player challenge the leaderboard. I finished 7th but I am satisfied with the winner. He deserve it.

I also miss the Sandbox lobby. "GATOR ROLL!"

But when you play a lot there, there is a moment where I have to ask myself,"Is this mafia?"

It's a nice shit hole. I always went nostalgic with it.

But I have enough.

[Realeo]

And Reverse Mafia. The signature setup of EpicMafia.com

I always want to bring Reverse Mafia to this site, and see how serious scumhunter run the game. It's a shame that EpicMafia run reverse mafia as a point farming game. It has potential.

[Realeo]

Scum driven lynch, probably 3 on the wagon

Transcend said this pages ago.

More interested on the 3rd.

[Realeo]

I am not sure how does people actually think he is town? Like the troll is obv scum

Spoiler: Hint 1

only you guys can give us a hope if these fucking morons keep lynching obv towns back to back to back

Spoiler: Hint 2

He was in all 2 wagons. He trolled you.

[Realeo]

Spoiler: Hint 3

Seriously though. Why you open this hint?

[Realeo]

You do understand that self-hammer is not always done by town, don't you?

[Realeo]

For instance, Majiffy @ Ari's Donner Party.

[Realeo]

I just find that discussion should be reserved for end game discussion, not for twilight.

[Realeo]

Because there is something called "preserving the morality of town"

[Realeo]

Fitz, whose actions do you think were effected, if any, by Transcend's threat of selfhammering?

I support this question.

[Realeo]

I think my only surprise was that Fitz didn't vote earlier given the fact he's surprisingly being consistent with his initial read list. My mind went "Nah. Not Transcend's partner."

[Realeo]

Alert: We need to explicitly lynch Fire Mafia. If we lynch Ice Mafia, It would 3-2 entering N4->auto Fire Mafia win

@NotMafia: I can relate to that.

I would play this game back tommorow.

[Realeo]

Still looking for a replacement for Joshz

I recommend pausing the clock or running the clock with half speed.

With potential mylo, some consideration needs to be....considered.

[Realeo]

I mean, it would be awkward if JoshZ replacement comes in with 5 days in the clock.

[Realeo]

Wait.
I am wrong.
4 - 2
We can lynch Ice Mafia.

[Realeo]

BTW. Is it safe to assume GE is not the NK target, judged by

stubbornness

of BK?

Given our status, I want to open it again.

[Realeo]

Judging from BK playstyle, I concluded that NotMafia is

not

the other

ice mafia

.

BK has been playing a consistent confident/stubborn player.

• He pushed furiously at nn in D1
  
• He pushed furiously at havingfitz in D2
  
• He was so confindent with Gamma Emerald as NK target

This caught my eye.

Transcend, stop trolling right now.

Can you guys stop posting off-topic content? I love dogs, trust me but that isn't the game we're playing.

Two people were trolling... NotMafia and Transcend.

If BK was scum with NotMafia, he wouldn't do that. He has the chance of accidentally painting guilty NotMafia. If that happena, BK would have to bus NotMafia or risking inconsistency.

Using the same logic, I'm ruling out Akarin (aka KuroiHfx replacement aka Rory replacement) given how stubborn was BK>

[Realeo]

Next step, NK analysis

The sky was an evil shade the next morning, ominous and foreboding. And it was not long before someone came across the night's first casualty: Gamma Emerald had been found, locked into an ice cream freezer outside the cafe and left to freeze. And just when the townies had gotten over that shock, a scream was heard: it appeared BK201 had been pushed into a large bonfire, burnt beyond recognition.

Gamma Emerald, a

Vanilla Townie

, has been frozen
BK201, an

Ice Mafia Goon

, has been burnt

We cannot conclude who is the actual NK target at this point. I found zero proof currently.

This discussion, is assuming Gamma Emerald is NOT the NK target.

So BK pushed the case of GE being the NK target and BK killed him...

Why?

My only hypothesis (open for rebuttal) is Ice Mafia is banking on BK--starting a scum theater. Since if GE is still alive, that would reduce the room for POE for BK.

I would like to hypothesise that Ice Mafia is banking for BK to run the lead. In another word, Ice Mafia is banking for BK to win the game.

This means BK lacks confidence on his another scum partner.

By POE, players who are largely townread which are Kmd, JoshZ, and me are out of the potential partner.

The remaining scum suspect are {havingfitz, Aristophanes}

[Realeo]

Judging by

• BK is so consisten scumreading havingfitz
  
• Aristophanes surprisingly also scumread havingfitz (How coincedental!)
  
• BK and Aristophanes never mentioned each other

I think Aristophanes is Ice Mafia

[Realeo]

The question:

[A] Should we go for Ice Mafia, gamble it for 5 ways lylo (3-2)

Go for Fire Mafia, gamble for cross fire. Either insta win, mylo at 3-1, or worst case scenario 2-1-1

If we lynched another VT, that would be 3-2-1. Ice Mafia has to shoot Fire Mafia or Fire Mafia wins. If fire Mafia is shot, that either 2-1-1 or 3-1.

[Realeo]

I want to go for Fire Mafia...

[Realeo]

Oh BTW. NM. I need updated read. nn flips town. Ge flips town. At this rate, you are 0of3.

[Realeo]

I like the idea of going for ice mafia for two reasons:
A) Eliminate one NK
B) It's easier with more info (BK's flip)

How confident are you with lylo? I am ready for 3-2 lylo if we want to hunt Ice Mafia.

Can you go into more detail why you don't think gamma was the failed NK? Is it because scum had to be shooting for each other? If so, who was still scumreading gamma and BK?

The idea of Gamma being NK target was coined by me

accidentally

It's not about the isistnece part. It's about they logic.

They logic is that "his insistence that Rory is town makes me think he might be scum who tried killing Rory"

My question was, why would scum!Josh does that if the analysis is True. It's like Josh is telling the another scum party to kill him because "I know who you kill."

1. Why I'm thinking the nk target is Gamma

2. WHY IS THERE NO WAGON ON GAMMA?

No. I don't sr Gamma. But Gammas was hot pursuit D1 and none D2? Something is going on...

But pushed by BK

It's not about the isistnece part. It's about they logic.

They logic is that "his insistence that Rory is town makes me think he might be scum who tried killing Rory"

My question was, why would scum!Josh does that if the analysis is True. It's like Josh is telling the another scum party to kill him because "I know who you kill."

1. Why I'm thinking the nk target is Gamma

2. WHY IS THERE NO WAGON ON GAMMA?

No. I don't sr Gamma. But Gammas was hot pursuit D1 and none D2? Something is going on...

Realeo,you're right about the difference between D1 and D2. You may have just cracked open the game. This would mean Gamma is town, and scum would know it too, so as scum you might drop Gamma know he's town and try to get the other faction lynched. Good work.

[1] Considering BK is scum, why would BK pushed at the actual NK target? BK demonstrated a straight game. I don't reckon WIFOM in play. I think he pushed Gamma because that would derail us from the actual NK target.

[2] If Bk pushed Gamma, BK losts the opportunity to push a lynch at him. THis means, BK quite townread Gamma. Why would scum kill a townread?

I know that my argument is a little bit assumptive, but with BK playing a

straightforward

game (ie.No WIFOM in view yet), I feel confindent with my assumption.

[Realeo]

Official Vote Count 2.8[/color]

SnarkySnowman (7)

- Kmd4390, Akarin, Joshz-slot, Aristophanes, havingfitz, Realeo, Not_Mafia

All 7 players on SnarkySnowman are alive...priceless.

Who would know SnarkySnowman will be the diabolical difference of alive and dead

[Realeo]

Judging by

• BK is so consisten scumreading havingfitz
  
• Aristophanes surprisingly also scumread havingfitz (How coincedental!)
  
• BK and Aristophanes never mentioned each other

I think Aristophanes is Ice Mafia

That's nowhere near enough to convince people if you actually believe I'm Ice.
Just fyi

An elaborated explanation why havingfitz is scum would really help me.

[Realeo]

@havingfitz: How does exactly Kmd is in "I have my doubts" I was expected on "Not Sure"

[Realeo]

The more I think it, kmd/Kuroi seems plausible

[Realeo]

Also OBTW Realeo...you mention in Post 1743 that BK and Ari never mentioned each other. Why are you discounting Ari's vote on BK Day 2 which had him at L-3 for a good portion of the day and the only significant wagon prior to Snowman's to end the day.

Because it's a naked vote.

[Realeo]

Mentioning each other requires element of communication. Communication is a two-way street. I don't see a remote two-way conversation.

[Realeo]

The more I think it, kmd/Kuroi seems plausible

Did you forget who brought up the Amished tell?

Who brought it just for luls? Yeah. I remember it. The last time I challenge someone present a counter-wagon, he brought Aristo as wagon instead of Kuroi...

How coincedental

[Realeo]

These are all pointless theory discussion,

That's the problem. Mech discussion is an easy cop-out way to talk to partner.

[Realeo]

@Not_Mafia

What can I do to proof that you're wrong?

[Realeo]

@Not_Mafia

What can I do to proof that you're wrong?

Are you really worried about it?

Given my current read that there is a high chance Not_Mafia is town, yes.

[Realeo]

@havingfitz

Can I have non-POE scum?

[Realeo]

Given my current read that there is a high chance Not_Mafia is town, yes.

Can you elaborate or link me to the reason for this? I hate that someone who doesn't try (IMO) and is very flippant is this far in the game.

Tell me what you see at this...

VCpls

Hint: It's not just VC request.

[Realeo]

Official Vote Count 1.1

Realeo (5)

: Transcend, culted, Not_Mafia, BK201, Io

Not_Mafia (1)

: Realeo

Rory (1)

: Gamma Emerald

SnarkySnowman (1)

: PenguinPower

Not Voting (5)

- Joshz, nn30, Rory, SnarkySnowman, Clemency

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

You have (expired on 2016-12-22 21:19:39) until deadline.

Doesn't it seem strange that the Realeo wagon suddenly vanished?

Oh ye. RVS memory. Good times.

[Realeo]

I didn't said it was RVS wagon. It was RVS memory.

It was the first wagon after RVS.

[Realeo]

I kinda don't wanna argue semantics, but kinda feel like you were trying to shrug off Alisae's thought.

It's more to "

Your point is?

"

When I saw the votecount is 1.1, I'm not sure what Alisae trying to reach.

I mean, there's a doc, a town, a scum, and 2 more alive player in that wagon.

Your conclusion?

[Realeo]

Wowie Realeo. You're really overly defensive right now.

No. It's a semi-sarcastic asking a question.

[Realeo]

"Your point is?"

[Realeo]

Ey. Your analysis on my "quickly gone" wagon.

[Realeo]

Your early game wagon came and went and the Gamma and Trans wagon lasted for quite awhile.
Not to mention I believe Gamma and Trans both flipped town.
Those two wagons on Gamma and Trans scream that they were both town, and their flips confirmed it while your wagon quickly dissapeared.
Yeah, I feel confident in doing this now
VOTE: Realeo

So you're suggesting I'm Ice Mafia because Bk, the ice mafia, is on me?

[Realeo]

If this is a 3 man mafia, I can relate.

If there is only 2 mafia, how does another mafia partner make the wagon goes quickly?

[Realeo]

My wagon dissipates quickly because town (Transcend,Culted) and another mafia (BK) unvote it.

Another mafia partner make the wagon goes quickly by Not_Mafia tunneling me for 100% of the game.

[Realeo]

Rephrase please. Language barrier.

[Realeo]

I can analyze Gamma NK because I have someone to trace back...BK.

I can do the first step POE since I can reference back to BK's psychology.
I can do the second step POE since I can reference back to BK's psychology.
I can do the fitz v Aristo since I can refer back to BK's action.

I cannot refer to Fire because there's no Fire flipped yet.

[Realeo]

I will leave you with your confbias.

[Realeo]

In the mean time, please try make an analysis out of BK's NK.

You would understand why I didn't make an analysion on BK.

[Realeo]

VOTE: Realeo

BTW I dunno why but I think this vote right now comes off as a White Flag Gambit

Please make up your mind. Does mafia White Flag Gambit me or mafia makes my wagon quickly dissapear?

[Realeo]

I'm not that good at NKA. Sorry.

Exactly the point.

The first question you have to ask is "What is the first step?"

Me finding "What is the first step?" relies on the BK. The Gamma NK....is a bonus.

[Realeo]

Now that we're at that. Alisae, what do you think of my theory why GE is not the NK target.

[Realeo]

Describe me the ideal Realeo.

[Realeo]

Why?

If a scum!Realeo jumps on NKA, then town!Realeo.........?

[Realeo]

Why?

If a scum!Realeo jumps on NKA, then town!Realeo.........?

No, why are you asking?

At this point, Alisae suggests that town!Realeo does nothing. Any analysis that Realeo did is scummy.

You see my confusion?

[Realeo]

Because you're attacking me for doing analysis.

So what should I've done. Not doing anything?

If you attack

the result

of my analysis, (ie. cherry picking, false proof (like Bk did)) fair game. If you attack

the action

of me doing analysis, I'm royally confused.

[Realeo]

I am not being hyper defensive.

I am being hyper confused.

[Realeo]

Like for example. You said "Realeo wagon dissipates quickly" -> scum Realeo

But the people who unvoted me are town and scum from the wrong mafia (Ice Mafia)

The one who makes my wagon goes quickly are flipped non-Fire Mafia.

Then you said Not_Mafia is White Flag Gambit. How did he make my wagon goes quickly if he doesn't unvote me

or doing anything persuasive to make my wagon go away

and bus me at the same time?

[Realeo]

How am I supposed to defend myself if I don't understand what is attacking me.

[Realeo]

HOW?

[Realeo]

I did not do NKA.

I did association analysis. I used the NKA to do the association analysis,

NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND

[Realeo]

You lost me. Sorry.

[Realeo]

No. You don't get the point.

I did not attempt NK analysis at Gamma Emerald.

Go reread the entire case.

[Realeo]

I did association analysis. I used NKA to make association analysis.

Not NKA, but association + NKA.

Two different thing, two different application.

The second relies on a flip.

There is no flip on Fire Mafia.

[Realeo]

And Alisae, you're confused.

NKA is only effective if the NKA target is town.

If the NKA target is scum, then it can be written of as Scum A scumreading Scum B.

How do I trace back scumhunting?

Anyone can scumhunt.

I have done NKA~but the NKA target is town

[Realeo]

I kinda don't wanna argue semantics, but kinda feel like you were trying to shrug off Alisae's thought.

It's more to "

Your point is?

"

When I saw the votecount is 1.1, I'm not sure what Alisae trying to reach.

I mean, there's a doc, a town, a scum, and 2 more alive player in that wagon.

Your conclusion?

And either no fire scum or at least one of not mafia / havingfitz is fire.

It's actually a pretty interesting vote count.

This is lazy and a scum slip.

Lazy : Anyone can do that

Scumslip : Why I am not considered as a correct Fire Mafia wagon? Because KMD knows I don't

[Realeo]

I am attacking you for attempts to appease people,

Elaborate on the appease part. What is appease and what is fulfilling concern. Last time, someone scumread me for not appeasing *cough* Kuroi *cough*.

[Realeo]

Thank you. So you are townreading me now?

[Realeo]

So why the sarcasm?

[Realeo]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Say again?

[Realeo]

You sure changed your read quickly

Because the only reason I townread you is that vc request, which is a meta argument.

[Realeo]

I am attacking you for attempts to appease people,

Elaborate on the appease part. What is appease and what is fulfilling concern. Last time, someone scumread me for not appeasing *cough* Kuroi *cough*.

Am I Kuroi? No, I'm not. I'm Alisae, not Kuroi.
Scum want to appease.

No. I'm just being ironic.

So if someone has concern, I may not address it?

[Realeo]

That's a very flimsy reason for a read

Now that you mention it, next post is explaining why I TR NM...until now.

[Realeo]

Tell me what you see at this...

VCpls

Hint: It's not just VC request.

I just see a vote request.

If you dig deeper into the Not Mafia iso, you would learn that it's the

only

vote count request that Not_Mafia requested.

And look what happened after it.

Spoiler: Open to look what happened next

VCpls

Official Vote Count 2.7

SnarkySnowman (5)

- Kmd4390, KuroiXHF, Joshz, Aristophanes, havingfitz

BK201 (1)

- culted

Transcend (1)

- Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald (1)

- Transcend

havingfitz (1)

- BK201

Not Voting (2)

- SnarkySnowman, Not_Mafia, Realeo

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

You have (expired on 2017-01-04 17:20:51) until deadline.

VOTE: SS

Let it be going down to POE.

L-1

VOTE: SS

Not_Mafia has a extensive background of lolhammer, regardless of alignment.

The question : Is that a mafia lolhammer or town lolhammer?

Before I answer that, I must ask "What is the charactheristic of mafia lolhammer?"

I may answer,

opportunistic

Part 1 of 2

[Realeo]

So the question I have to ask my self is this. "Why would an opportunistic mafia asks for a VC?" If I am opportunistic, I would just wait for L-1 alert and vapoom!

The fact that he asks for a VC means that NM is

meticulous

NOT

opportunistic

. He is indeed a N_M waiting for the hammer. He really wants to seal the deal of SS~possibly a serious town scumhunting.

I TR that because he was being serious, which is not scum meta.

Until that sarcasm.

Part 2 of 2

[Realeo]

So if someone has concern, I may not address it?

Addressing it is one thing. Saying:

Describe me the ideal Realeo.

@Not_Mafia

What can I do to proof that you're wrong?

Is appeasement

[Realeo]

So if someone has concern, I may not address it?

Addressing it is one thing. Saying:

Describe me the ideal Realeo.

@Not_Mafia

What can I do to proof that you're wrong?

Is appeasement

No seriously though. Go get a sleep. It's 11pm in America, ye?

[Realeo]

Hey Ice Goon, you gonna take a stance on this or not?

Ye! What's your case @ havingfitz.

[Realeo]

VOTE: BK201

Fire Mafia with Rory

Potentially the most accurate read of all time in this game. I mean, the 2of2 scum.

[Realeo]

You forgot to put yourself in blue and Realeo in red

You townread Aristo?

[Realeo]

I can see NM/kmd as a possibility.

[Realeo]

Right! I was thinking blue = town

[Realeo]

Kmd attacked Rory/Kuroi from get go, but never actually voted him but at the beginning of D3. Even in D3, he still presented Aristo as wagon.

Like if I were KMD, I would push Kuroi. Especially if I sumread Rory pretty much from get go.

I mean, that's what I did to Transcend?

Unless KMD is ultra-patient person in real life, this is also probably White Flag gambit.

And KMD's desire to go fore Ice Mafia...is alerting, to say the least. I'm still convinced that going for Fire Mafia is more optimal (since we have 2 shots to get it right) but I don't think it is necesarrily "fire mafia shooing away?"

[Realeo]

@KMD: Where's your scumread @ Kuroi?

[Realeo]

Hey Ice Goon, you gonna take a stance on this or not?
Isn't this like the perfect time to take out scum for you?

I know you mean me, even if you're wrong. I'll take a stance tn, how's that?

Where's the

promised

analytical brain?

[Realeo]

Thank God.

[Realeo]

@akarin

For the sake of the argument, your case at fitz is correct. Who would be the fire mafia partner?

[Realeo]

Hey Ice Goon, you gonna take a stance on this or not?

Ye! What's your case @ havingfitz.

What are you asking for here?

Realeo thinks You were the Ice Mafia Alisae alluded to. I am though.

So...nothing?

Oh. The nk target, please.