Mini 1813 - Overwatch Mafia! TOWN WINS

[Randomnamechange]

Confirm.

[Randomnamechange]

And that's 9!
VOTE: randomidget
calling a PL here.

[Randomnamechange]

VOTE: Tracer
Tell us what you know!

VOTE: The Engineer
He's not even from this game!


A note to all players, I will be V/LA for the next week, as I'm on vacation in DC. Can usually check in and post at night, but access will be, you know....limited.

These votes are incorrect. Vote randomidget for a better tomorrow.

[Randomnamechange]

RUSH B CYKA BLYAT.

Oh shit this is Overwatch and not CSGO.

VOTE: Random midget

Random vote for the random midget

This guy gets it

[Randomnamechange]

I think I know what random rolled honestly

Nah, this was independent of my role. I'm not Mei.

[Randomnamechange]

So I'm assuming Shadow is Mei.

[Randomnamechange]

VOTE COUNT

randommidget

(3) - randommidget, doctorpepper, tracer

HURT ME MORE

[Randomnamechange]

So Random is either Jester, or trying to fake it I guess.
Would be surprised to see him fake it going by how I've seen him play in general.

Fluff wise, would this be a thing?

Nah, I;m just screwing around.

[Randomnamechange]

VOTE: Tracer

worst girl

Tracer > Mei

[Randomnamechange]

RVS isn't over until I say it is over.

[Randomnamechange]

RVS is over.

[Randomnamechange]

VOTE: PeterVOTE:

Was that RVS? Even after Shadow said RVS has ended?

What is this madness?

I haven't made my POTG moment yet!

What's RVS and what's a POTG moment?

RVS is Random Voting Stage. basically at the start of the game people throw down random votes to get discussion started.
POTG is Play of the Game (from Overwatch)

[Randomnamechange]

Also, am I the only one reading all of Tracer's posts in her voice?

Ever get the feeling of Deja Vu?

Like you've been here before?

[Randomnamechange]

Hello all, I am going to be fairly active in this game.
Considering all thats going on here is RVS I will just throw out some random questions for you guys:

1) How do you think this game was balanced as far as numbers?
2) Do you have a negative utility to the town you want to claim now?
3) Do you believe theres a point to full claiming in this game if we are about to be lynched?

10-3
No
Always.

[Randomnamechange]

RVS isn't over until I say it is over.

VOTE: Peter

RVS is over.

I actually had a good laugh at this. I like Randomidgets attitude.

I try.

Hello all, I am going to be fairly active in this game.
Considering all thats going on here is RVS I will just throw out some random questions for you guys:

1) How do you think this game was balanced as far as numbers?
2) Do you have a negative utility to the town you want to claim now?
3) Do you believe theres a point to full claiming in this game if we are about to be lynched?

10-3
No
Always.

Okay can I ask if you ever played in a vonflare game before? At least enough to mod speculate based of what you know?

To go more indepth with question 3, do you think some roles in this game are more useful or indicate alignment versus say scum roles. As in some roles are naturally have to go to town and wouldn't make sense as scum roles?

No, no.
That isn't the point. Say, Pre-LyLo we put someone at L-1 and they claim cop with results. Wee don't lynch them that day. We give them a list of three people that they can investigate, they don't say which. Scum now either has to guess who will be investigated and try to shoot them, meaning they have to shoot someone scummy who is a potential mislynch, or shoot the cop, wasting a shot on someone who almost got lynched, or not shoot either, in which case next phase we lynch the cop if it was a town invest, or the person if it was scum, and repeat this until the cop hits town, at which point we lynch the cop and get a conf town. Manipulating the scum shot is one of the strongest tactics that town don't use.

@post 57 Genji

1) How do you think this game was balanced as far as numbers?

No clue, fam. Usually it's somewhere around 10 town to 3 scum, so I'd assume that until we have reason to believe otherwise.

2) Do you have a negative utility to the town you want to claim now?

Nope.

3) Do you believe there's a point to full claiming in this game if we are about to be lynched?

Usually there is. Some PRs are better left without claiming and just hoping they don't get lynched.

Could you give an example of this?

[Randomnamechange]

That's my line!

Ok, I have a question for you Tracer, did you create your account before or after receiving your role PM?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: springlullaby
Filler post

[Randomnamechange]

That's my line!

Ok, I have a question for you Tracer, did you create your account before or after receiving your role PM?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: springlullaby
Filler post

That's my line!

Ok, I have a question for you Tracer, did you create your account before or after receiving your role PM?

This post is so bad, it's paranoid scum trying to look busy.

VOTE: Spring

Great minds think alike?

Actually nevermind

This must be those rare cases that RQS isn't scummy

No point in me answering because its echoing alot of people

Genji is surprisingly town

Why do you think I am town now?
I kind of find it weird you scumread me alone for RQS? I have experienced some scum using it, but I have never thought of it as scum tell.

RQS is scummy as fuck really

Its an easy way of saying "Hey guys I'm doing stuff" and gets instantly townread

Its like saying tobjourn deserves play of the game (He totally does )

It depends on the questions. These actually stimulate discussion and therefore benefit town

[Randomnamechange]

Yeah, not sure on the paranoid, butdefinitely the scum trying to look busy part

[Randomnamechange]

@post 57 Genji

1) How do you think this game was balanced as far as numbers?

No clue, fam. Usually it's somewhere around 10 town to 3 scum, so I'd assume that until we have reason to believe otherwise.

2) Do you have a negative utility to the town you want to claim now?

Nope.

3) Do you believe there's a point to full claiming in this game if we are about to be lynched?

Usually there is. Some PRs are better left without claiming and just hoping they don't get lynched.

Could you give an example of this?

I'm gonna go ahead and quote Justice Potter Stewart on obscenity here: "I know it when I see it"

In Musical Mafia, we had a Jekyll and a Hyde, doctor and vigilante, who enabled eachother. When I suspected the doctor, he could have claimed Jekyll, and Hyde could have defended him, but he kept his mouth shut, because outing Hyde would have lost us a vig. There was more nuance to it at the time, but that was the gist of it. Jekyll ended up getting night killed, if I remember correctly.

Full claiming is sometimes, maybe even often, correct. But if the goal is to stave off your own lynch, sometimes you can accomplish that with a partial reveal, and give less information to scum.

The correct play here is to claim the doc part, say that you can't claim flavour due to it giving important info to scum (unless the part about enabling Hyde was in the role card, in which case they should claim everything apart from Hyde's identity)

[Randomnamechange]

That's my line!

Ok, I have a question for you Tracer, did you create your account before or after receiving your role PM?

This post is so bad, it's paranoid scum trying to look busy.

VOTE: Spring

Paranoid scum?

do you actually think that, or are you just suggesting?

They are questioning Shadow's use of paranoid scum, not calling Shadow paranoid scum.

[Randomnamechange]

I'm the only player with more posts than Genji. A replacement. Shame on all of you.

[Randomnamechange]

also, you should prolly let them defend themselves, even if i was mistaken

I was going to, but as it was a simple misunderstanding I decided it probs wouldn't matter

I am going to bring back this for discussion purposes:

Since we don't have a lot of to talk about, I am just going to out, I do have a sort of negative utility.
I can't vote for someone who shares a very specific passive trait that I have. This makes me think that the person(s) who have this are either town or some neutral role. Otherwise it can cause many issues in a LYLO situation where someone is against the town and I cannot vote them.

Interesting. I have a few questions. Are you willing to divulge more info?

[Randomnamechange]

Yeah, not sure on the paranoid, butdefinitely the scum trying to look busy part

I don't think that question had any point, maybe pointless curiosity? Or maybe flavor hunting as well. Its an easy check able fact that tracer signed before getting a role.

That is what I'm saying. Asking questions without a point is scummy.

[Randomnamechange]

Ok, I have a question for you Tracer, did you create your account before or after receiving your role PM?

1) Have you read the full game, because this shouldn't be your main concern. 2)Even so, you can tell Tracer did not make the account before receiving role pm because you can look at their posting history.

4)What does this matter anyway? 3) I doubt mod would give a player role based on their name.

Numbers mine.

1. And what should I be concerned about?
2. Tracer has posts in only one game: this one.
3. Beside the point, I asked if you and Tracer created your accounts after receiving your role pm's.
4. It matters whether Tracer/Genji the players are claiming Tracer/Genji the roles.

-----------------------

Tracer is 100% town as per her claim.
Genji and shadow-step's claim are NAI.


Genji's setup questions are scummy because it created 5 pages of worthless noise about people's irrelevant opinions on such and such. Mafia Theory talk belong in another forum. I'm face palming because the lot of you who responded can't all be scum.

Genji: justify each of your 3 questions and explain why they can benefit town.

VOTE: Genji

Setup spec questions help. It gets people talking, can be used for reactions, and can catch people later. You aren't the kind of player who thinks they are better than everyone else are you?

[Randomnamechange]

Random, you had questions for me?

@Tracer thoughts on spring?

Don't answer these if you don't want to.
What is your role?
Any more info on the neg utility?
Who is the other role/player?

[Randomnamechange]

I don't think that is necessary paranoid scum, it is a good tactic.

[Randomnamechange]

I'm devastated.

[Randomnamechange]

I have town reads on Genji and Shadow atm, and townleans on Peter and engineer.

[Randomnamechange]

If it is one I agree chances are they are town. If two others have it then its probs 2 town and 1 scum. But not certain.

[Randomnamechange]

I have town reads on Genji and Shadow atm, and townleans on Peter and engineer.

I see the Genji/Shadow. I can maaaybe see Engineer, but why Peter?

Gut, whicch tendds to be pretty accurate. Seems genuinely engaged.

but seriously though what the fuck is with the setup speculation and role fishing?

Basically, me and Genji find it interesting and are the only ones doing stuff so we can't get reads on people due to them not doing much

[Randomnamechange]

Seriously, only three players have more posts than the mod and one of them was basically trolling.

[Randomnamechange]

You are improving! Keep up the good work kiddo

[Randomnamechange]

Seriously, only three players have more posts than the mod and one of them was basically trolling.

i mean

do you actually correlate number of posts with who is actually being productive?

Nice try, double posting to inflate post count.

[Randomnamechange]

Why is Doc Pepper scum?

[Randomnamechange]

UNVOTE:

[Randomnamechange]

I think I know what random rolled honestly

Nah, this was independent of my role. I'm not Mei.

This is scum

What

So Random is either Jester, or trying to fake it I guess.
Would be surprised to see him fake it going by how I've seen him play in general.

Fluff wise, would this be a thing?

Calling a scumbuddy "jester" on page 2, maybe?

What

Does anyone else question the four fast votes on doctorpepper?

Yeah, I think there will be at least one scum in those votes.

That's my line!

Ok, I have a question for you Tracer, did you create your account before or after receiving your role PM?

This post is so bad, it's paranoid scum trying to look busy.

VOTE: Spring

I'm gonna go off this. Why would this be a legitimate reason to vote for anyone.

VOTE: Shadow

That is a really good reason to vote people. Town don't have to fake scumhunting, scum do. Scum try to look busy by doing pointless shit to avoid committing to reads so they can wagon hop later and look like they are scumhunting.

[Randomnamechange]

That isn't what you said
VOTE: Doctor Pepper
L-2

[Randomnamechange]

That isn't what you said
VOTE: Doctor Pepper
L-2

Fill me in on why this was a good reason to put me at L-2

fabricating reasons to scumread people.

[Randomnamechange]

That isn't what you said
VOTE: Doctor Pepper
L-2

Fill me in on why this was a good reason to put me at L-2

fabricating reasons to scumread people.

VOTE: randomidget

You are a hypocrite

I know you are but what am I?

[Randomnamechange]

I think wee should just hope that a vig kills Tracer or kill them in a bit. Not worth the risk now.

[Randomnamechange]

My bad, I misread the role and thought it was a scum Traitor once her deathproof was popped. I'm still not sold on the claim to be honest.

[Randomnamechange]

I'm trying to burn my 1-shot deathproof with one hell of a twist.

What you should do is disclose exactly what your ability is.

If my deathproof is used by a mafia kill I turn into a mafia traitor. Now you know why I want to get lynched today.

Yes that means I also have a mafia win condition in my role PM lol

(It's worded like there is a potential third party.)

a) playing against win con
b) that would mean you lose if you get lynched.
Tracer is 90% Judas.

[Randomnamechange]

Wake is scum

[Randomnamechange]

VOTE: Wake
I refuse to believe that you cannot read.

[Randomnamechange]

Wake's confusion about the lynch confuses me, too, but why are people reading it as scummy? I feel like I missed something important.

I'm also not sure if I 100% trust Tracer. Yeah, the deathproof thing happened, but she's done nothing except advocate for her own death all D1 and no scumhunting or detailed reads at all. Plus, I'm paranoid that she's just crumbing being a traitor to scum and the recruit has nothing to do with that ability. Either way, we cannot allow her to live to LyLo.

I agree that flavor reveal is bad. There've been hints that some characters share mechanical connections, so there might be Enablers etc. that we probably wanna keep secret. If someone has a flavor/ability that has positive outcome if outed, do so, but it's too early for everything else.

Actually If there are 3 scum i wouldnt know who the third one is

Can we even be sure flavor indicates alignment? D.Va scum/traitor would make no sense lore-wise, yet it seems to be a thing.

Turret vote doesn't

have

to come from town. It's conveniently placed on D1's second largest wagon, so if we disregard flavor, it can come from either side.

People are scumreading it because he made a scummy as fuck hammer and is trying to deflect attention away from him and onto Tracer

[Randomnamechange]

Either because they are a strong player or because they had good reads.

[Randomnamechange]

Peter is new-ish right?

[Randomnamechange]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Doctor Pepper
If this flips scum then there was scum on the Tracer counterwagon

[Randomnamechange]

Not voting wake yet. I think he was legitimately confused about Tracer's claim, and I wouldn't expect scum to start fires over something so semantic.

His hammer was bad and makes no sense to me, but I'm not inclined to think it was scummy.

He did have a motive to start shit - he was getting pressured for a potentially very scummy move.

I honestly think anyone in the list is capable of just getting DGB killed D1

Is DGB a really volatile player or something? The only person in this game I know (unless there's an alt I'm unaware of) is wake.

She has a rep for being a very good player.

[Randomnamechange]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Doctor Pepper
If this flips scum then there was scum on the Tracer counterwagon

Can you go into the reasoning beyond this thought?

If Pepper is scum, they wouldn't have wanted to lynch him. The Tracer lynch wasn't definitely going through until the end. Which meant that scum were probably pushing it to stop a DP lynch from about half way through the wagon.

[Randomnamechange]

If Pepper is scum, they wouldn't have wanted to lynch him. The Tracer lynch wasn't definitely going through until the end. Which meant that scum were probably pushing it to stop a DP lynch from about half way through the wagon.

And you blame Wake for not reading the game.

Your lynch wasn't guaranteed until your full claim

[Randomnamechange]

Where is everyone?

Playing Overwatch, maybe? Seriously, though, why did this game just die out in activity?


Maybe this can jolt some life back into it.

VOTE: randommidget

His wagon on DoctorPepper seems bad to me. His argument for starting it is "If this flips scum then there was scum on the Tracer counterwagon." But do you have an actual reason to scumread DoctorPepper, or are just assuming that Tracer is a counterwagon, despite her insistence that she's lynched for mechanical reasons? It feels like his reason to wagon DoctorPepper is to lynch him, and gain information about the Tracer wagon, but that seems like a piss poor train of thought.

I've had a scumread on him since yesterday

[Randomnamechange]

People are trying to push a wagon on me on the basis that I haven't give a reason to scumread him in my last three posts

[Randomnamechange]

Where is everyone?

Playing Overwatch, maybe? Seriously, though, why did this game just die out in activity?


Maybe this can jolt some life back into it.

VOTE: randommidget

His wagon on DoctorPepper seems bad to me. His argument for starting it is "If this flips scum then there was scum on the Tracer counterwagon." But do you have an actual reason to scumread DoctorPepper, or are just assuming that Tracer is a counterwagon, despite her insistence that she's lynched for mechanical reasons? It feels like his reason to wagon DoctorPepper is to lynch him, and gain information about the Tracer wagon, but that seems like a piss poor train of thought.

I've had a scumread on him since yesterday

Do you care to detail that scumread better, then? My memory from yesterday was that he asked for an update seven pages into the game, and that seems like pretty small fish to fry compared to the other things that have happened so far.

Faking scumreads in people. New scum who aren't sure how to produce content

[Randomnamechange]

Can we just lynch DP already?

Trust Turret

[Randomnamechange]

Gotta lxve the fuckig indepth reasons people are giving for scumreading me.. How many are there again? Oh that's right 0.

[Randomnamechange]

It annoys me when a large number of players scumread someone for no reason, because it is easy for scum to hide there and the player can't defend themself.

[Randomnamechange]

Why is DP not lynched yet though

Scum don't want to bus

[Randomnamechange]

DP is scum

[Randomnamechange]

Well I'm done with my catch up, but I still don't see why Tracer is town.

I can think of a very plausible scenario in which she is scum. A town read goes to the first person that can tell me what that scenario is.

She is scum 1 shot deathproof

[Randomnamechange]

Well I'm done with my catch up, but I still don't see why Tracer is town.

I can think of a very plausible scenario in which she is scum. A town read goes to the first person that can tell me what that scenario is.

She is scum 1 shot deathproof

That's only part of it. Of course she's 1 shot deathproof. That much has been proven already.

Had she started out as a regular

Mafia

(or say a 3rd party) 1-Shot Deathproof though, she wouldn't have outed it so early, just for the town credits.

Unless she was trying to conf town herself.

I've been saying for ages that Tracer's claimed role is bastard

[Randomnamechange]

Basically everyone outside of you me and Wake accepted it

[Randomnamechange]

Y tho

[Randomnamechange]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: tracer

[Randomnamechange]

He gave a reason for a vote, i pressured him, he changed the reason. That is scummy.

[Randomnamechange]

@random

Can you outline your logic in post 436 please?

Basically, a lynh was going through on DP until the end of the day, when a counter wagon springs up. Perfect opportunity for scum who don't want to bus but are reluctant to defend DP to derail his lynch

He gave a reason for a vote, i pressured him, he changed the reason. That is scummy.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a flagrant misrep.

So...you're saying that random is fabricating a reason to scum read doctor?

In other words, people in the chain are voting eachother because they think someone's making up a scumread on people because they don't like their reads, which is kind of a bad reason on its own, but whatever. I can ignore that part. Town has bad reads all the time. That's not my problem with random.

I'm voting random because his reason to vote DoctorPepper is to confirm Tracer (which is garbage for a hundred reasons) and because he believes DoctorPepper was inconsistent when he clearly wasn't. If he wanted to say "I think DoctorPepper's vote on shadowstep is bad, and I'm scumreading him because of that," I can look past that, but his logic is "DoctorPepper gave a reason, then gave a different reason when questioned," which is just untrue.

No it isn't

[Randomnamechange]

Although that assumes Tracer flips town which may not happen

[Randomnamechange]

Although that assumes Tracer flips town which may not happen

So what is your read on DP now?

Opposite alignment to Tracer. Technically town but I could see him as scjm

[Randomnamechange]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DP
if 4his flips town do tracer tomorrow

[Randomnamechange]

Anyone who doesnt read the game and iso is scumclaiming.

Fuck off

If you guys arent scum, you are really fucking lazy.

No, we are just spot on with the scum read.

I guess that's why you're voting for Fox right now, then? Because you're so confident that DP is scum and random is town?

Exactly why. Fox is also scum!
Random is town 100%

Bingo

I'm Reinhardt, and am bulletproof.

Literally the one reason people are giving for scumreadig me is my reason for scumreading DP whilst not even adressing what I actually said. The only fucking thing. It is a scathing inditement of player quality in this game that the wagon on me is taking off. DP has AtEd his way out of the wagon and bc ive been a little busy the last few days apparently im lurkscum.

[Randomnamechange]

DP has AtEd his way out of the wagon and bc ive been a little busy the last few days apparently im lurkscum.

Nah, DP is real town.
podoboq however, I question completely now!

Doesnt change he fact he AtEd

Literally the one reason people are giving for scumreadig me is my reason for scumreading DP whilst not even adressing what I actually said.

He gave a reason for a vote, i pressured him, he changed the reason. That is scummy.

That's my line!

Ok, I have a question for you Tracer, did you create your account before or after receiving your role PM?

This post is so bad, it's paranoid scum trying to look busy.

VOTE: Spring

I'm gonna go off this. Why would this be a legitimate reason to vote for anyone.

VOTE: Shadow

Yes but what shadow did is exactly that, fake scum hunting.

No, random. He didn't. This is the same thing said in two different ways.
213: "That is not a legitimate reason to vote for anyone."
217: "Shadow is fake scum hunting, by coming up with illegitimate reasons to vote for someone."

It's the same damn thing.

He gave a reason for a vote, i pressured him, he changed the reason. That is scummy.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a flagrant misrep.

I'm scumreading you because you misrepped DoctorPepper, and refuse to respond to that accusation with anything.

That is in no way strong enough reasoning to lynch someone.

[Randomnamechange]

Lynch pod fox and tracer. I really hope podo is scum bc his play has been so bad.

[Randomnamechange]

A moment of silence for our town brother, Random!
You shall never be forgotten!
The Overwatch remembers!

And I shall never forget you old friend
Perhaps we can grab a pint in another life

[Randomnamechange]

Podo has disappeared at deadline must be scum troloololoo

[Randomnamechange]

I will gamble my sig on it. You're wrong, you sig it.

What do we put if wrong?
I'll accept though!

JunkratxRoadhog OTP?

[Randomnamechange]

yay gj guys