Newbie 1910: Aerial Photography [Game Over!]

[brassherald]

Yo! What up?

[brassherald]

Oh, also, UNVOTE: I read Ceejay's posts, saw that I had no way to really know what alignment this was and took a shot at getting my coveted town role.

Now that I know that I'm for realz townz, I'm actually going to read after work tonight.

[brassherald]

I think that moony might be town and 1 mafia is on the wagon pushing for an easy day 1 lynch GL is null to me rn so its 50/50 between Worst and GW.

What's making you think Moony might be town?

because I feel this is a scum lynching an easy day 1 lynch so Moony is probably town, I'm not saying he can't be scum, but this lynch looks a little too sus for me it just feels like atleast 1 scum is on this lynch. To answer your 2nd post (mobile sucks so i cant quote) GL can still be scum thats true however I personally find you 2 scummier and think the scum is more likely between you 2. I think GL should talk more though, would like more from them. I unlynched without lynching because I wanted to see your answer to my question first (about the JunkoChan read) before I lynched between you or GW.

While I understand the concept that you would like to avoid a town lynch on day 1, it is objectively better for town to lynch a town player than to no lynch. There's math somewhere in mafia discussion, but, let's be honest, I don't have the link after my extended sabbatical, and I don't feel like looking it up.

I guess you can trust me or you can search.

Or not trust me and be objectively wrong.

[brassherald]

{tw}
{YellowSnow}
{cjv, junko, GrandWazoo}
{computerfan0, GuiltyLion}
{Moony, Nineja}

Why is junko so high? And Nineja so low?

You might have had reasoning underneath this, but I didn't read it.

[brassherald]

I probably should have spoken up earlier yeah -- I agree entirely with brassherald.

These types of games (9p, one kill per day (lynch), one kill per night (mafia nightkill)), work perfectly on the assumption that we lynch each day. mislynching day one actually offers a higher chance of winning than not lynching d1, if I recall correctly. if you're interested I can crunch the numbers.

but it's somewhat beneficial for town to work in odd numbers (9p => lynch & nk => 7p => lynch & nk => 5p, etc.)

It has something to do with lowering the amount of votes needed for a lynch, because in setups like this where no vigilante exists, the only way to kill mafia is to lynch.

[brassherald]

Also, reads do, of course, generally improve over the course of the game.

[brassherald]

I am caught up.... God, I hate that the leading wagon is all RVS with 3 days left, by the way.

[brassherald]

VOTE: Nineja
join me here, if you feel it.

I at least now feel I can be more upset with GuiltyLion than you for allowing this RVS wagon to stand. (I'm kind of upset that both of you were still on this wagon until now)

I'm not sure I'm buying this, though, I would like to hear from moon's replacement so that I can sort that slot.

I'm not totally feeling Nineja as scum, though, and not fully on you as town, which distresses me.

That being said, I'm not fully a fan of the posturing in 127 of not really taking a stance on the moon slot, not sure if I'm thinking it's a newbie being unsure or a scum trying to keep all possible votes open. I'll think about it.

For now, VOTE: GuiltyLion out of pure emotion for him still being in RVS.

[brassherald]

I was townreading YellowSnow until his push on GrandWazoo for saying "I know I'm town", that's a serious reach. town or scum can say that, there's nothing inherently AI in it either way, and the extra "preying on newer players bit" is serious spin-zone

By the way, not really sure this is AI on yellow.

I think early on, in a game about deceit, the natural reaction is to disbelieve someone making a claim of town alignment.

Townz, on the other hand, is the best alignment and should always be claimed. The Z makes it much better than just "town".

[brassherald]

for the record the posturing in 127 leading into the HARD TOWNREAD on a lurker slot in 162 is what's ringing my alarm bells. incidentally I think Nineja => GL interactions are more likely to be scum/scum than anything else I've spotted today.. The way he nullreads him and just... leaves him there is pinging

pedit: brass has the best-cut jib in the land.

Welcome Brass, I like the cut of your jib.

Welcome Brass, I like the cut of your jib.

By the way thanks for all the jib talk, I'm not positive what jib is but I shouldn't be rude and not thank people for my jib compliments.

[brassherald]

it's a kind of sail
it's a good thing, trust me
you trust me right?

Not after Project Pinecone.

[brassherald]

Actually, while I'm thinking of it, GrandWazoo, can I get your thoughts on the game so far?

You know, reads, feelings, confessions to being a cold blooded murderer if that's the case.

[brassherald]

My best argument for the case is on 131, you see, opposite to nineja's logic against me, the post I quoted from him has an emotional tone, a frustrating tone in fact, and then he twisted my words to post what should never be posted in any mafia game: "this person will townread you if you afk"

I can elaborate more on this if you need to but I think I would just be repeating myself

I feel like this may have just been sarcastic frustration on his part. Sarcasm does not come across on the internet though.

[brassherald]

Sorry about being extremely late

need a few days to establish some kind of reads

For now I would go with what others are thinking

Don't really have a few days... I mean, I guess we kind of do, but I don't want to wait a few days for someone to form reads when we are 3 days from night 1.

Let's do a quick exercise. You need to choose one person to lynch right now you are the only vote that counts. Who is it?

[brassherald]

Junko, can I get an idea of where your mind is on Grandwazoo and GuiltyLion?

[brassherald]

So, let's say you are right about GW, who's his partner?

[brassherald]

So, let's say you are right about GW, who's his partner?

either GL or the worst imo what do you think?

Oh, I misread your prior post. But, I'd generally agree those are pretty decent guesses for a scum team.

I had thought you said you couldn't see those.

I would get behind a GW lynch at this point, really not liking the push on an inactive slot.

Mind you, I don't like the inactive slot being here, but C'est la vie.

VOTE: GrandWazoo

[brassherald]

L-2 FWIW.

[brassherald]

VOTE: Nineja

not feeling a GrandWazoo lynch. i think he's exhibited some pretty towny traits which Nineja is lacking.

Town case GW for me, let's see if you can bring me around to it. I'm not seeing towny too much from him.

[brassherald]

Look, from what I have seen, we can lynch about 5 of the players for lack of real interest, right now I would prefer to take a measured risk against people I have a chance to read correctly and have more NKA and associatives to work with on Day 2 than lynch people uninvolved just for the sake of their being uninvolved.

[brassherald]

They'll be replaced if they lurk too much.

[brassherald]

It's not indefinitely, but the first lynch and first night kill provide so much information, the lurkers won't be able to hide just because they aren't posting, but, I've always been an advocate for lynching people who are actively scummy rather than people who just don't post because they don't post.

I will not willingly remove my own agency by picking people who are solely chosen because they are not posting.

[brassherald]

It's pushing them. They're easy "scum reads"

[brassherald]

259

You know I'm never going to read that, right?

[brassherald]

259

You know I'm never going to read that, right?

the thought "i am so sorry brass" literally crossed my mind while i was writing it.

i just felt i hadn't really shared my thought process enough to be questioning people who are pushing other scumreads than mine :{

Well, it is good that you remember I just don't read walls lol.

[brassherald]

Not that it'll help, since town has played terribly and is being openly taunted by scum.

Weird flex, but okay

@mod If nineja and Guilty Lion both get replaced out since they were prodded already and have not posted, do we get a time extension? I do not remember the newbie rules and cannot be bothered to read them

[brassherald]

UNVOTE:

For now. I'm going to be active enough that I can contribute to the lynch as the deadline bears down on us. Last minute Day 1 lynches are not uncommon, but I would like to prevent a quickhammer when two players have been away for two days.

[brassherald]

What's VC on nineja?

[brassherald]

Okay, it looks like a GW lynch is not happening, just being pragmatic, I think YellowSnow would be a very acceptable lynch, and I do think that Nineja lynch could hit as well at this point, there have been good arguments made about Nineja.

VOTE: Nineja

L-1 here. Not sold on it, but I think this is the only realistic lynch occurring today.

[brassherald]

Quickhammering right now is a scum claim, by the way.

[brassherald]

Quickhammering right now is a scum claim, by the way.

ANd you say that because? (the reasoning is correct) but... why?

PRs exist.

[brassherald]

Quick replace.

Junk and Junko? This is so hard.

[brassherald]

Junk has town slotted so many people...

[brassherald]

If you only got to page 6, I haven't replaced in. And Rivers Cuomo is not a gnome.

[brassherald]

Junk has town slotted so many people...

There are 7 town from 9 players, buddy

And no one is above suspicion. So, every one is scum in my book until they prove otherwise.

I don't trust this many town reads but I can't say its not just play that disagrees with mine.

But, like this catch up is so bad.

[brassherald]

Junk has town slotted so many people...

There are 7 town from 9 players, buddy

And no one is above suspicion. So, every one is scum in my book until they prove otherwise.

I don't trust this many town reads but I can't say its not just play that disagrees with mine.

But, like this catch up is so bad.

What is bad about it

I disagree, I think that's your subjective opinion

And the OBJECTIVE truth is that: you are bad, buddy

This reads like a homework assignment, you saw you had to find 7 townies and barely justify it, so that's what you did.

And you have read basically nothing from me, and you're attacking me?

No, this is a bad catch up, its either fake, or you really are deluded enough to think you can game solve day 1.

[brassherald]

or you really are deluded enough to think you can game solve day 1.

Well that's pretty rude

You seem like an unpleasant person

You should hang out with my ex, she also didn't like when people say what they think.

[brassherald]

Nope

My response to you was fair

You should have said "I dont see anything alignment indicative in your posts". Thats neutral and fair

Stating "there is nothing alignment indicative in your posts" is basically calling me bad

Bro, im pretty sure you go nowhere with an attitude of shifting blame onto others

Look, you seem to be super confrontational anytime someone doesn't agree with you, maybe just take it down a notch or seven.

Legitimately, you are fighting because duck didn't just say "It is my opinion that your posts are not alignment indicative."

There is nothing that says anyone has to be neutral and fair, and I might be grumpy most of the time, but I have no reason to be nice to someone who is coming in hot like this.

I still think your catch up seems fake, and I am not going to pull back on that. It's lots of information, very bare bones analysis, and I'm not liking this as a town slot at this point.

[brassherald]

Nope

My response to you was fair

You should have said "I dont see anything alignment indicative in your posts". Thats neutral and fair

Stating "there is nothing alignment indicative in your posts" is basically calling me bad

Bro, im pretty sure you go nowhere with an attitude of shifting blame onto others

Look, you seem to be super confrontational anytime someone doesn't agree with you, maybe just take it down a notch or seven.

Legitimately, you are fighting because duck didn't just say "It is my opinion that your posts are not alignment indicative."

There is nothing that says anyone has to be neutral and fair, and I might be grumpy most of the time, but I have no reason to be nice to someone who is coming in hot like this.

I still think your catch up seems fake, and I am not going to pull back on that. It's lots of information, very bare bones analysis, and I'm not liking this as a town slot at this point.

Im not rude to people who disagree with me

Why would I? That sounds pretty silly

I like to be fair and equally rude to those who are rude first

So far, two people have disagreed with you. You have been rude to those two people because you didn't feel they were being polite enough to you?

I said you were handing out lots of town reads and you immediately insulted me. Protip, sarcastically calling someone "buddy" is insulting.

[brassherald]

What a surprise, another two town reads, you've narrowed the two person scum team to one person.

I'm going to to check out for now because this conversation is getting closer to personally offensive than productive. some other people can check in. bye Junk.

(as a side note: @brass which weezer song is best? Say it Ain't Gnome or My Name is Gnomas?)

I'm on the same page.

Also, The Greatest Gnome That Ever Lived would get my vote.

[brassherald]

Is that intent to hammer?

[brassherald]

is he at L-1?

I believe so.

[brassherald]

he is not, he got 2 votes on him for what I can see (I'm trusting last northsidegal's vote count)

Oh, you're right, it's 5 to lynch today, not 4... Math hard.

[brassherald]

Oh, we got a 48 hour extension, I even asked about it and had already forgotten.

[brassherald]

GL is better than flailing at scum. He totally slipped under everyone's radar in the last game I saw him as scum.

I'm more interested in computer fan. This whole nationstar or whatever thing is tiresome and I think it is now appropriate to seek thoughts or rope.

VOTE: computerfan

[brassherald]

Remember that there is day chat for mafia in this set up so interactions can be scripted, for lack of a better word. That being said, I don't think GL is this sloppy as scum, still. He's super careful when I've seen him as scum in the past.

[brassherald]

Remember that there is day chat for mafia in this set up so interactions can be scripted, for lack of a better word. That being said, I don't think GL is this sloppy as scum, still. He's super careful when I've seen him as scum in the past.

Yea they can be, but that just looks like genuine sass to me.

Okay, just wanted to make sure you were taking it into account.

[brassherald]

Fun fact, in this set up Town Doctor is the best scum claim since only a Town Doctor can CC.

[brassherald]

Fun fact, in this set up Town Doctor is the best scum claim since only a Town Doctor can CC.

Fun fact

You were vote parking an obvious townie, and you still suspect him post-claim

Play better bro :shrug:

You cannot call yourself an obvious townie. You cannot objectively evaluate your own posting.

[brassherald]

Can you just act like a bearable human being for like five minutes? I think you'll find that makes the game better

[brassherald]

People pretend to like playing with me. That's good enough for me

[brassherald]

So what exactly does V/LA mean when you're still posting? These all appeared

after

Yyotta supposedly went V/LA.

Also the reason I'm V/LA is I'm trying to read the entirety of The Bee Movie script for no reason

So

should I just be inactive and wait at hell or should I be active

I hope I get better luck this time (last time I replaced I was immediately lynched)

10% of idea of what the fuck is going on

So GW is saying some scum is desperately making us thinking GW is scum

I mean this horseshit is bad enough under normal circumstances, but to do it when you're supposedly out of commission is like active lurking on steroids.

Vacation Limited Access generally means less posting.

As a side note, I generally just make the prod timer 1.5x the normal when someone is V/LA and I am modding, some people may be more forgiving than I am. I do not recall how the newbie game rules handle VLA, but it absolutely does not mean you should never post, nor does it excuse you from posting all together.

[brassherald]

Vacation Limited Access generally means less posting.

As a side note, I generally just make the prod timer 1.5x the normal when someone is V/LA and I am modding, some people may be more forgiving than I am. I do not recall how the newbie game rules handle VLA, but it absolutely does not mean you should never post, nor does it excuse you from posting all together.

OK but what's to keep a player from using it as a Get Out Of Jail Free card or just to avoid scrutiny? Especially when said player posts more

after

going V/LA than before.

Well, it shouldn't be used to avoid scrutiny, in fact, if you believe you are going to be VLA or similar for too long, it should be encouraged for you to actually just drop from a game.

I cannot speak to other mods' views, but if someone was to be VLA for what looked like the entirety of one of my games, I'd just replace them. Yyotta pretty much got in and immediately went VLA, which I also don't like from a general games point of view, but I can't say if this is more posting from before the VLA because I haven't seen a before VLA.

I would hope to hear more from the slot on Day 2. That's really all I can say at this point, I feel there have been actively scummy slots that still take precedent, but, I would hope that there would be some imperative for a low posting slot to engage day 2 if they are town.

I say day 2 because I'm pretty sure Junk lolhammered,

[brassherald]

Junk claim who you healed.

[brassherald]

I don't see anything like breadcrumbing in the worst's ISO, though maybe postgame he'll point out where I'm wrong. However, here's what I'm thinking.

First of all, I wanted to see if you'd fake claim healing someone because you'd possibly forget that there's supposed to be an RB if you were lying about being doctor. You didn't so I see no reason to doubt the claim at this point. I am slow to trust, but, eventually, I get there when it's deserved.

More on point, the worst was the IC and did not seem to tip off his role at all, so, there's actually two possibilities why he was the target last night rather than anyone else. The first is, he was on the right path with Moony slot and Guilty Lion.

The second would actually pretty much absolve Guilty Lion. I have not crunched the numbers, but, I believe the town IC is the most likely night kill for a two newbscum team. So, I think Moonyslot, who would be implicated in both situations might be the best lynch.

I've got to look at GL's recent games to see if he takes that shot, since if he's scum, he's probably calling the shots. I'll do that tomorrow night. GL, want to be a bud and link some recent scum games to possibly clear your name?

[brassherald]

Please try to die as soon as possible, scum.

I really don't want to rush this day phase.

I want to gather more information after an interesting Night Kill.

[brassherald]

I don't see anything like breadcrumbing in the worst's ISO, though maybe postgame he'll point out where I'm wrong. However, here's what I'm thinking.

First of all, I wanted to see if you'd fake claim healing someone because you'd possibly forget that there's supposed to be an RB if you were lying about being doctor. You didn't so I see no reason to doubt the claim at this point. I am slow to trust, but, eventually, I get there when it's deserved.

More on point, the worst was the IC and did not seem to tip off his role at all, so, there's actually two possibilities why he was the target last night rather than anyone else. The first is, he was on the right path with Moony slot and Guilty Lion.

The second would actually pretty much absolve Guilty Lion. I have not crunched the numbers, but, I believe the town IC is the most likely night kill for a two newbscum team. So, I think Moonyslot, who would be implicated in both situations might be the best lynch.

I've got to look at GL's recent games to see if he takes that shot, since if he's scum, he's probably calling the shots. I'll do that tomorrow night. GL, want to be a bud and link some recent scum games to possibly clear your name?

That could be it, yes.

YellowSnow does look like a good player, though. Scum!him could probably catch the worst as the cop? I don't know.

I know for myself that I didn't think the worst was the cop, he was just the most obvious heal target. I was 99% sure I'm dying night 1.

Only way he suspects it is if the worst dropped hints. I looked for it and did not see any crumbing.

Did the worst explain crumbing? If anyone is confused by that term, I can explain, by the way.

[brassherald]

Not necessarily, they got lucky here, but it could have just as easily been a town Jailkeeper.

I still think the Jailkeeper/Doctor and Roleblocker setup is extremely town sided, but that's besides the point.

[brassherald]

No, there will only ever be up to one scum PR and one or two town PRs. You get one column for the scum PR, and the second is a row for any town PRs

[brassherald]

brass maybe, some of his posts today feel a little LAMISTY like 604 (if scum decide not to CC the doc then this kinda looks like what I'd expect to try to get towncred for 'authentically' townreading the doc) and 607. brass what "information" are you looking to get out of today in particular?

I need some time to really analyze who's playing and considering who takes the NK. Ideally, I'd like to have a day 2 gamesolve.

First step is that tonight when I finally can sit down and read, I review the thread and see what happened. Put the pieces I now know in place and see what comes of them. Second, I need to look into the games you linked for your scum since I really don't know that you, in particular, take that shot at the worst.

And just for the record on not believing doc claims as town, I think you might have been in the game where I as VT tunneled, I want to say UCVoyager, who was town doctor, even after his claim. I don't just automatically believe a PR claim because in my very first game on site, the mafia had a PR claim which was not CCed and we mislynched town due to it. I trusted it without question that game, and I don't ever want to do that again.

[brassherald]

And just for the record on not believing doc claims as town, I think you might have been in the game where I as VT tunneled, I want to say UCVoyager, who was town doctor, even after his claim. I don't just automatically believe a PR claim because in my very first game on site, the mafia had a PR claim which was not CCed and we mislynched town due to it. I trusted it without question that game, and I don't ever want to do that again.

Looks like the town PR who decided not to CC is an intellectual

Different set up back then, it was C9 and the only PR in the game was a Jailkeeper who was already dead.

Little did I know in that set up, a One Shot BP claim by scum would be a common gambit.

[brassherald]

Searching for a replacement for YyottaCat.

@mod did Yyotta get prodded and I just missed it?

I would also like to actually hear from vesper, this slot has been pretty much nonexistent so far.

[brassherald]

I'm on a date tonight. She's briefly away, I'll be back tomorrow morning for reals

[brassherald]

Screw it, I rescind my request to take your time this phase.

Pretty sure Junk and GW are town at this point. Junko is a good bet as well. I know I'm town, so we have the pool of 3 to lynch. I'd love to get the thoughts from vesper before I place my votes, but, like if that's just going to be an empty slot for the rest of the game, so be it.

[brassherald]

Why are we on Junk as scum at this point? I don't follow

Also, I feel like vesper might have been a scum lurk out. I'll check when I'm at a PC if that is a player who has a record of lurking out as scum... I know at least one player here does, but it's me so that's not super helpful

[brassherald]

I don't like GL as scum, the more I think about it. I think he is correct, he's not working with anyone.

And, I guess a town cop and two goon setup is legit, in my inability to read simple charts I missed that cop can be alone. And, if there were two goons, doctor would be an even safer claim by someone who is clearly experienced. I think that my Junk lock town needs to be revoked because it's just not true.

[brassherald]

I don't like GL as scum, the more I think about it. I think he is correct, he's not working with anyone.

And, I guess a town cop and two goon setup is legit, in my inability to read simple charts I missed that cop can be alone. And, if there were two goons, doctor would be an even safer claim by someone who is clearly experienced. I think that my Junk lock town needs to be revoked because it's just not true.

talk to me about your GL town read? Could he not be with junk?

I guess he could. I'm a little bit Rusty in figuring out who is new or scummy with my long break, however, I just really don't think that Guilty Lion takes the shot at the worst. I don't think the worst tipped his hand at being a cop at all day 1.

Plus, I admittedly only saw him once as scum, but he was much smoother in that game than he is here.

I feel like that game he was more rehearsed as of he was talking in the scum chat and running it past his partner, I do not remember if he was post game, but I just don't get the organized feeling here that I did there.

I will openly admit that I totally fucked that game with a bad read of GL, though. And also I did not read the scum games GL posted here because I'm lazy.

[brassherald]

BH is white knighting him.

Only I'm not, I haven't mentioned the dude in a while.

But, I do think its fucking weird that you scum read GrandWazoo because I'm WKing him, so the main read is apparently on me, but what? You're too scared to vote me, you decide to vote the secondary extension scum read?

This makes no sense. I think Junk is right here.

VOTE: YellowSnow

[brassherald]

I'm not obligated to vote you. It's called having more than one scum read and the only ones attacking me are OMGUSers. So that means absolutely nothing. The fact that you're not denying white knighting GW speaks volumes as well.

BH is white knighting him.

Only I'm not, I haven't mentioned the dude in a while.

Emphasis added and the rest removed.

Let me explain this to you simply. You have a SR on me. Let's call me Patient 0 here. I'll say I'm infected according to you.

You infer, through my interactions with GW, which are wrong and denied twice now, that GW is scum. So, I supposedly infect GW in your eyes.

So, if your entire case on GW is that I'm scum and GW is my partner through interactions, the only logical way to approach it is to find out my alignment, not GW's.

Because, and here's the best thing, when I flip town, your entire "case" on GW falls apart, so, a town player would then decide to remove me first, because if Patient 0 is not actually infected, then GW would not be infected, right?

Yet, you are voting GW. So, really, the logical explanation is that you are voting the infected rather than the Patient 0 in this scenario because my green flip will eliminate GW from your fake scum pool tomorrow, but his will not eliminate me from your scum pool. The order of lynching here is so you can argue for a second mislynch.

[brassherald]

Oh, shit, I should have used vampires instead of AIDs patients. Vampire biting would have been so much better!

[brassherald]

I've made my town BH argument in every post I have made so far, I don't need to condense it into a Reader's Digest version for you.

I know I'm town, and I will not case myself because it's a waste of my time. And my time is valuable.

But the actual issue here is that you are confusing an argument that uses the fact that I know I am town to show that you are scum rather than trying to make a case that you are scum. Your voting patterns make no sense coming from town anyway. You believe that GL/GW and I are scum yet vote Junk. You believe GW is scum because I am scum helping him along, yet never voted me, as explained above. If your basis for the GW read is that I'm scum, you should vote me before GW, but you are not trying to solve the game, you are trying to push town lynches here.

[brassherald]

3. Junk ragequit. That's scumspeak for "I'm busted."

I disagree, I constantly rage out of threads, and more often as town because I actually like being town.

[brassherald]

I'm using the same logic that you are for Junk, GW. My scum order is Junk>GL>BH>GW.

We don't have 4 lynches.

[brassherald]

how much time do we have? give him a lot of it. If he's willing to engage, I'd still like to talk to GL for a bit pre lynch

ofc I'm willing to engage, I'm here

I really don't know why we're not seeing eye to eye on Yellow. You seem to be scumreading me mostly because I'm the only person who makes sense with Junk. I would say that's stronger evidence for town!Junk than it is scum!me

This is the exact logic that is making me think it's YellowSnow

[brassherald]

So, now Lion is a scum lock, and one of us is also scum because we addressed the fact that your logic makes no sense? Okay.

I mean if Sherlock Holmes had this level of logic every book would have just ended with ????????????????

[brassherald]

how much time do we have? give him a lot of it. If he's willing to engage, I'd still like to talk to GL for a bit pre lynch

ofc I'm willing to engage, I'm here

I really don't know why we're not seeing eye to eye on Yellow. You seem to be scumreading me mostly because I'm the only person who makes sense with Junk. I would say that's stronger evidence for town!Junk than it is scum!me

This is the exact logic that is making me think it's YellowSnow

please clarify this for me, BH. I'm not sure that I follow

YellowSnow keeps having cases that are basically "X is scum because he can be partners with Y" and doesn't really seem to have a real case on Y.

Personally, I think it's not real scum hunting that's leading to it, he's pretending to try to find the team rather than find the first scum, then, find the partner. Instead, he's just looking for connections and not taking into account if anything is scummy from either of the participants, it seems.

I don't buy that anyone would actually play the game like this as town. He now has GL as scum because he could be partnered with Junk, me as scum because I have agreed with GL, GW as scum because I said something in respect to GW. I guess a Junk scum read is the only one with any basis, but the logic just isn't there. I think he's got the fake logic and it comes up as fake and he doesn't even realize that it sounds this fake.

[brassherald]

Believe it or not interactions are a big part of scumminess.

You still don't get it, if your reads are based solely on interactions you are not going to catch any actual scum because the scum can just decide NOT to interact with each other in thread. For God's sake, there's day chat in this set up, they can be fighting with each other in thread and still talking about how great it's going.

Interactions are only a good way to scum hunt when you know one of the person's alignments.

[brassherald]

After day 1 I was one of the towniest players according to the only confirmed townie, then after he dies supposedly I am scum #1 according to junk for no reason.

Look, the worst is what I would consider a friend of mine, and I don't mean this in any way to be mean, but the reality is that he has been wrong in the past and he can be wrong again, including today.

If it were Radiant Cowbells or Elli, then we could talk about this, but the worst being towny and town reading you does not clear you.

[brassherald]

Anyone can be wrong but you have to work with what you have. The fact is we know he is town.

And that proves nothing about you.

[brassherald]

I have more town equity than junk and I think almost anyone here that's not on my top 3 would agree. The failure of bh and gl to scumread junk just confirms my worldview.

That junk is scum with both myself and Guilty Lion and the setup is invalid because of that?

[brassherald]

Yes, I do talk about proof because that's what I'm looking for, evidence for scum cases, or, in other words, proof.

I'm not looking for 100% proof of scum here, but what I'm looking for is whether someone is faking reads or not. Or if they know more than they should.

I'm not looking for if someone gets upset, I do not believe that is a scum exclusive trait.

I do believe you are faking your reads, and I also believe you are not actually fully reading my posts.

[brassherald]

I'm going to step into an IC position for a second... Sorry, ducky.

There's a quote button on this forum that makes the thread easier to follow.

Please use it.

[brassherald]

I have more town equity than junk and I think almost anyone here that's not on my top 3 would agree. The failure of bh and gl to scumread junk just confirms my worldview.

That junk is scum with both myself and Guilty Lion and the setup is invalid because of that?

referring to this missed the new pages

I knew, I couldn't resist the joke....

[brassherald]

brass, why don't we take this from a different perspective, and see what we can agree on. I think you're pretty obv!town here, so that's good.

I'd also like to town bloc Junko and GW.

Do we disagree on any of that?

I'm fine with that.

However, I will not comment on how obvious I am as town.

[brassherald]

so i guess from that perspective I'm good on any lynch in {Junk, GL, YS}

tbh i thought you were gonna disagree with me on the first post

I am leaning towards a Junk/YS scum team and this is all a show put on for distancing, to be honest.

Like whichever wins this argument gets the town cred. They're both goons this way.

[brassherald]

Why do you think GW is scum, though, GL?

[brassherald]

if gl is scum roleblocker, game is locked (brass always gets lynched tommorow)

if he's mafia goon, f3 between me junko and brass will be soooo fucking hype man

It's suspicious to line up a lunch tomorrow when we don't even know who the NK will be...

This weekend is a little crazy for me. I'll be back, weather permitting, Monday afternoon EST.

If you hear there's a huge snowstorm in the NY metropolitan area and I fail to post, I probably lost internet

[brassherald]

It's suspicious to line up a lunch tomorrow when we don't even know who the NK will be...

your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum your scum

I kind of hope you are town, so that when the game ends and I'm town you'll have to come to terms with how you were wrong on every scum read.

Also, it's you're.

[brassherald]

So to recap here are the votes for the two mislynches (town in green):

[5] computerfan0 :

YellowSnow

160,

the worst

444,

GuiltyLion

471,

brassherald

540,

Junk

575
[4] YellowSnow :

Junk

594,

brassherald

842,

GuiltyLion

951,

u r a person 2

960

I have no doubt that Junk will say he was RB'd again. Maybe he was, though I continue to doubt it and we won't know till he dies. I also have no doubt that GuiltyLion will continue to misrep me and try to get me lynched, even though he was driving the yellow wagon and I was arguing against it. Finally, I have no doubt that town will lose unless we lynch GL today.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Did you all know that there is 100% scum in GW/GL now that we have all posted and the game is not over?

Because I sure noticed that.

Allow me to expand a bit: If GW is town voting GL town, Junko and Junk would have coordinated to pile two more votes on by now and just win the damn game.

But, the fact is, either scum does not have 2 free votes, or scum does not want this lynch to occur.

I am not voting outside of GW or GL today.

[brassherald]

GL 100% had to know that already.

[brassherald]

What's surprising to me is that town!GL would essentially have logical confirmation that GW is scum... Yet, no vote.

[brassherald]

it's harder to keep a story up if you a player is scum and can miss things like that, it doesn't matter now I guess

I've seen him pull that very same play as scum before. He didn't miss it.

[brassherald]

Interesting turn of events, a vote straight out the gate with no thought. Guess we are hammer testing JunkoChan.

[brassherald]

For the record, early voting as town in LYLO is a terrible idea, but this has been a game full of terrible ideas.

[brassherald]

The sad thing is, I'm 99% sure, it's Junko that is the last scum, but GW drops an early vote and probably loses town the game because GW will not unvote or rethink.

[brassherald]

And now I'm just like live tweeting to the dead chat as they watch a town loss unfold before their eyes.

[brassherald]

Yeah, this is stupid, and, as predicted it is useless to talk to you because you won't reevaluate.

No one ever deserves to win, by the way. I don't just throw games because someone played well.

And, you can nominate Junko for the scummy right the fuck now, if you want then.

Voting anyone out the gate as town is terrible in LYLO, you didn't get here because your reads are good. And neither did I.

[brassherald]

I'd hate to have to tell you this, the scum takes out the people who know what they're doing. Hell, the only thing Junko had to do at this point was not kill me because I have an attitude newbies decide is scum.

[brassherald]

At this point, I don't think you would listen to me in time, even if I did spend the time telling you why I am town, so I'm trying to use this as a learning experience for you. You just won't listen to me until post game, then you'll be like "Oh, yeah, maybe he was right!"

And, for the record, I always deserved the win, in my book, because no one else is as important to me as I am.

[brassherald]

LMAO your jib is still awesome man.

Hey, you can't fault me for knowing that I'm more important that any other scrub out there.

I will say, I definitely have been wanting the worst to critique this game because I really felt rusty in the game when coming in and I do want to know how much that came off.

For post game, duck, how long has it been since I played, let's figure it out.

[brassherald]

Hell, I even reminded GL of how to get me mislynched in Newbie games. Because I am a creature of habit and he knows I'm not getting any better.

[brassherald]

Hell, I even reminded GL of how to get me mislynched in Newbie games. Because I am a creature of habit and he knows I'm not getting any better.

Legitimately regret mentioning that game, because this is playing out pretty much the same way.

[brassherald]

I didn't talk to the dead chat in that game, though, since it didn't have both the worst and guilty lion in it. Hello from before the grave Boyos! I'll spam this thread rather than working because its too cold in my office!

[brassherald]

Is this like reverse psychic stuff where I am talking to the dead but they can't respond to me and I cannot talk to the worst in discord about this for like a week even though I've wanted to?

I miss you duck, I'll never let go. Then when I die and go to heaven my spouse for like 50 years will probably be pretty pissed that I went on the Titanic with some dude I knew for like a week when I was 17. And I'll drop a necklace into the ocean or something... Okay, I only semi-remember the end to Titanic.

[brassherald]

Well you can always self-hammer and we can get to postgame analysis right away. Or Junko can do the honors. Either works for me.

Not playing against my wincon, that's against the rules.

[brassherald]

If Junko is scum she deserves to win. In fact it would be the best scum performance I've ever seen.

But she isn't. You are. So voting you out of the gate is a wonderful idea.

Oh, shit, can we go back to this?

Because I want to quote Clint Eastwood.

"Deserve's got nothing to do with it!"

[brassherald]

Surprisingly spamming clear shit posts as I wait for town to lose because I don't want to waste actual effort on it, not against the rules.

[brassherald]

Legit question, who do you think was the hero in Unforgiven?

I've been rethinking the question on my recent rewatch.

[brassherald]

Well the Scofield Kid was the motivating force in the picture, but he wasn't exactly heroic. I think that was the point. There are no heroes. Ned of course was the conscience of the movie and look what happened to him.

Okay, yeah, I guess I was just too young when I originally saw it because the first time I thought for sure that it was William Munny. This was also in like 2007, so I would have been like 19?

God, I was a stupid teenager.

[brassherald]

Maybe, I made a theme game once that went pretty well, but it is a lot of work. I feel like people more creative than I should do that stuff.

[brassherald]

Gee, what a shock almost as if maybe reevaluating your reads and thinking for 5 fucking minutes was the actual right move rather than handing away a win. I wish someone had said to do this for a full page so that town could have won, but, GOLLY! Who could do that?

Maybe some more experienced player who explained to you that you don't get to LYLO by having good reads. If only that happened in this game.

[brassherald]

Hey, YellowSnow, you listen to Unspooled as well, or is it just a coincidence that you posted about Unforgiven?

[brassherald]

what does unspooled mean? but yeah it was funny Unforgiven was discussed in dead thread and game thread.

It's a podcast, nevermind, coincidence.

[brassherald]

Gee, what a shock almost as if maybe reevaluating your reads and thinking for 5 fucking minutes was the actual right move rather than handing away a win. I wish someone had said to do this for a full page so that town could have won, but, GOLLY! Who could do that?

Maybe some more experienced player who explained to you that you don't get to LYLO by having good reads. If only that happened in this game.

C'mon man. It's not like you even bothered to make a case on Junko or even really defend yourself.

Why would I bother when she could jump in at any minute?

You didn't bother unvoting to give me a chance to even though I explicitly said that's what it would take for me to put in that sort of time. I even said to reevaluate your reads now, and you didn't make it to LYLO because you had such flawless reads, but, again, you didn't bother re evaluating or anything.

Why would I even expect you to listen to a case if you're not even taking the time to reread and reevaluate for yourself?

My time has value, I'm not wasting it on people who don't listen to me.

[brassherald]

The fact is GW shouldn't have quickvoted and BH should have been more willing to case Junko.

I would have been if GW unvoted. The fact is, I said the same thing on Day 3, but GW did not show a willingness to ever listen to me.

Again, my time has value.

[brassherald]

I didn't give up, I gave GW the information needed to get me the time I needed, he wasn't listening to me. If I were scum, I would have just argued it was GW and cased him, instead of trying to get him to unvote.

I am pretty positive I could have swung a GW lynch, if it came down to it, but I knew it was Junko.

[brassherald]

I acknowledge that I did not play a great game, but don't accuse me of not trying in LYLO, I tried to get the time I needed and did not get it.

[brassherald]

If you say something like "my time is valuable" that's the impression you give in my opinion. Take it or leave it. I never said you didn't play a great game though, almost everyone on the playerlist played well overall, it was an extremely well played game across the board.

My time is valuable, I'm not getting any of the time I spend building a case and then getting lolhammered by scum back before I die. I don't understand why more people don't value their own time the way I do.

[brassherald]

If you say something like "my time is valuable" that's the impression you give in my opinion. Take it or leave it. I never said you didn't play a great game though, almost everyone on the playerlist played well overall, it was an extremely well played game across the board.

My time is valuable, I'm not getting any of the time I spend building a case and then getting lolhammered by scum back before I die. I don't understand why more people don't value their own time the way I do.

This is me saying, you should value your time as well, and continue to be an asshole to anyone that wants you to waste your time, the same way you would if someone wanted you to waste your money.

[brassherald]

@brass sorry for my part in talking you out of casing Junko earlier. It was a good read. there's definitely a parallel universe where you dunked on her d1 and people listened imo but I also understand the demotivating factor in that people were sorting other slots and leaving her in the corner.

I was going to get a picture of the Duck Dynasty guys, but then I realized I would forever be connected with a picture of the Duck Dynasty guys for a dumb joke

[brassherald]

@brass sorry for my part in talking you out of casing Junko earlier. It was a good read. there's definitely a parallel universe where you dunked on her d1 and people listened imo but I also understand the demotivating factor in that people were sorting other slots and leaving her in the corner.

I was going to get a picture of the Duck Dynasty guys, but then I realized I would forever be connected with a picture of the Duck Dynasty guys for a dumb joke

....worth it.
always worth it.

If you insist.

[brassherald]

Duck, was this our first game where both of us were town that I actually finished?

[brassherald]

Duck, was this our first game where both of us were town that I actually finished?

my god
I actually can't think of any others offhand

We have had outstanding luck on that front. Though, it makes coming in extremely nerve wracking when I see you since you know my town game so well.

[brassherald]

@GL ILY man and you're an awesome influence on this game
one day you're going to totally finesse me as scum and I'll have ptsd from it and I can't wait for that day

I wanna be town with you again, I have so much more fun being town

I originally wanted this game to be the game where I really finesse you but alas the holidays and my spirit to play as scum and lie all the time was not there. i need to learn where to draw the passion to play a dominating scumgame like some of my best town games. I just always feel so tired/scared/drained checking the thread, whereas when I'm town it's fun

I will say something I just mentioned to the worst on Discord, I have been mislynched as town in game twice, to my recollection.

Both were newbie games with you as scum.

I really do feel like you are one of the only people I've come across who seems to have a natural ability to sell town me as scum. And both times I played right into it.

[brassherald]

replacements are scum sided in my opinion because I can't keep track of who is in what slot. I'm old and feeble.

[brassherald]

Oh, duck, legitimately my favorite part of any newbie game was late day 1 where we were just doing a back and forth about Weezer songs.

[brassherald]

I have been working on theories that perhaps as VT I should just crumb a role really poorly, early in day 1.

I might have done it one time before. I don't think I did it poorly enough to attract attention.

[brassherald]

Wait, no, I was not a VT in that game, and it was role madness. So, it didn't help at all to just heavily imply Vig as 2 shot BP that game.

[brassherald]

Thor and I have a habit of disagreeing but that's pretty funny/clever

From what I can tell, Thor disagrees with just about everyone but me.

[brassherald]

Yeah, he's a great player.