Newbie 1912 [GAME COMPLETE]

[Thespio]

Yeah, and you did this:

Spoiler:

Right so for loopdan you had 'condemning evidence' for me your gut is guiding you? Im getting ready to my reads with a little more content, maybe that will help/hurt your opinion of me. Honestly rereading loopdans interactions you read kind of scummy, I saw your push as town, but that flip hurt you in my mind, your attitude was cocky and you werent willing to look at anyone else, then we come into D2 and you are upset i ask you for more reads and tell you not to tunnel.

You're misrepping me right now, and this is a big reason you're a scum read. Because you regularly do scummy things like this.

I didn't get upset that you asked me for reads. Pretty sure I made that pretty clear.
I also wasn't upset that you asked me to stop tunneling people - you never did that, and you also agreed that I shouldn't stop tunneling people, so you know this, too, is wrong.

I was upset because you acted like you had some sort of control over my play "we arent gonna have you tunnel one guy."

As far as reading you for different reasons, pretty sure you agreed with me that something was wrong with the loopdan read, so OMGUSing me for approaching my other reads differently is also dumb. Stop.

I honestly could see an RCE/Thespio scumteam RN.

1. That's not true. Munch disagreed with everything I said yesterday, and you actually agreed with me for the first part.
2. It is misrepping me, show me where I posted that I was upset that you told me not to tunnel/asked me for more reads. Show me how I got upset about that. Cuz I guarantee this is not me being upset about reads:

You and Magik are funny like this, acting like you have any control whatsoever about how I proceed with the gameday or like I have any intention of going through another loopdan situation again. Not to be an ass, but I don't care if I have your approval for anything I do. I'd really like to see more involvement from you, too. Pretty much anything past surface level reads and bad implementation of game theory/ generally too scummy to be scum behavior.

It's not even me being upset about you thinking tunnels are dumb. It's me being upset about you saying "you aren't gonna do this."

And quit with the FOS crap. Put your vote on me and quit sitting on the fence. And again, that's not how my reads worked, you're assuming a position for me and then attacking that instead of responding to what I'm actually saying.

This is another reason you're scummy, you're going to try and get me all riled up by responding w/ OMGUS, and when that doesn't work (again) you're going to be like "this is TvT" (again) and then assume everyone will townread you.

I can case you later but you've done a load of scummy stuff this game.

I'm still disinclined to believe that scum!Enter would do such a massive deathtunnel and draw so much attention to himself Day 1 knowing that Loop would flip town. That doesn't really make his play good, since it definitely hasn't been most of the game, but his motivations aren't reading sour to me as much as overly eager to case people instead of thinking everything through.

This was my initial thought, but the fact he lynched based on his own sense of logic D1 and now is fishing for wagons D2 to me seems utterly susp. Also why would he defend munch? is it not normal to say you made a mistake and look at the people who did too (intentionally or not?) The fact his wagon is all town but they lynched a townie is super sketchy to me.

LOL. Two things:
1. You pushed loop.
2. You pushed elements.

You pushed one more town wagon than I did. You pushed a PR to the point of claiming. "the fact they lynched a townie is super sketchy" actually wtf.

1. Munch agreed with you and hes near the top of your town list. Point made.
2. Any time you have to say "Not to be an Ass" its you being an ass. Unless you are naturally an ass (which I interacted with you and thought you werent) it tends to be because of emotional turmoil.


2.5 IM NOT VOTING YOU BECAUSE I WANT TO LOOK AT MUNCH AND RCE. You getting on me seemed off though which is the purpose of my post, you arent my first or second pick, but the guys i want arent engaging with me or in munches case interacting with anyone because they are opportunistically posting.

Thats where I am at.

1. Munch disagreed with me on both Loop AND elements. This is what you get for skimming my ISO instead of actually reading it.
2. You're misrepping me and hiding behind "you're a jerk." Stop. That's not an excuse.

You pushed a PR to the point of claiming. "the fact they lynched a townie is super sketchy" actually wtf.

Let me just stop this right there. As I said in my response to Muh pushing on people gets more information about their alignment, and is generally a good thing to do if something is off there. The fact that it was a PR that was acting scummy and got pushed doesn't mean jack about the validity of the push, and Elements himself said that the points made against him were valid. This is not something you can hold against him like this.

His point is that you're townreading anyone who sided with you to kill Loop, and that is still pretty valid looking at your current readslist. Muh is actually a prime example of it in action, since you've said that Muh clearly had a reason to scumread Loop before your case pushed him into action, even though Muh never once put said reasoning out. It's altogether easy for anyone to say "Oh yeah, I totally believed this before your case", and I find it concerning that you just took him at his word.

I feel like this is the second (third?) post where someone takes Thespio's 2(two) points, makes an excuse for one, and then tries to validate the other through some strange jump in logic, with the landing being the assumption that if the second point is correct, the first one also is.

Let's fix this here and now.
1. Elements wasn't acting scummy. He said things that sounded scummy, but he wasn't acting scummy. I have a feeling someone isn't going to read the whole thing that I'm about to say, will take that first sentence, talk about how THEY THOUGHT elements was scummy and then consider my entire first point defeated, just because that's how most of these engagements have gone so far. Why you shouldn't do that, is because this point is completely and totally irrelevant of whether or not elements was acting scummy or not, Thespio's point against me was that I pushed town to lynch and that somehow makes me scummy. My point in return, is that he pushed two town players, and one of them was a PR, so calling me on this is dumb.

2. No, he's saying I'm scumreading anyone who disagreed with me, and that's an important distinction to make, because that's ACTUALLY wrong, and not just a correlation between my reads and what happened yesterday, as I previously pointed out.

The part two of point two here, is that you're ALSO wrong, because muh did provide reasoning for his read (spoilered later) and in addition, you're assuming that my town read is based on the fact that they agreed with me.

Ah, classic Loop. Stalling the game and trying to push another lynch just to survive another day. First he tried to push my lynch but that didn't go anywhere. As soon as he saw the opportunity of another possible wagon on Elements, he jumped on it immediately.

Its less about rushing anything and moreso HE LITERALLY SAYS HE IS TOWN AND STILL WANTS HIM DEAD. THIS IS THE SCUMMIEST POST OF THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
VOTE: Elements Everything put together against loop, even from what i see is only a fraction of how skummy this post is.

Sure his post was scummy but I still don't see it as a basis for a lynch. Thespio, when you said you would rather self-lynch than have a NL, isn't that sort of the same situation? In that situation, you want town dead for information. In Elements situation, he also wants town dead for information. What separates the two?

Muh is another player to watch out for. OMGUS is a terrible reason to vote anyone this late in the day, especially when the source of that OMGUS is from really early in the day. He's a SE player. If he was a newbie I'd be more lenient given that new players tend to make that argument fairly often, but he should know better than to lean on OMGUS as a reason even if it's just "fuel on the fire". That's not even mentioning the "If you so strongly feel you're town" line which is just terrible.

I'd also expect him to know how to prodge better than 306, but that's admittedly not very AI. He would've been better off saying "This is a prodge. Loop is still scummy", as that would count as enough content to reset the prod timer instead of making one of the worst nitpicks I've seen this game though. I have to wonder if he couldn't find anything better to poke at or something.

What so terrible about the "If you so strongly feel you're town" line? I've noticed that both you and Loop are both hunting for excuses to jump on wagons. First you both did it with my comment about "If you so strongly feel you're town" and then subsequently did it with Elements post. I know Loop is trying to get the wagon off himself, but I feel like you've been pocketed by him and are trying to save him no matter what chance you get.

Nobody else commented on that except for you two which just goes to show how you both are trying to reach at whatever you can get so that this Loop lynch doesn't happen.

Regarding the second point, I was skimming through the game and saw it. I knew if I said "Loop is scum" he would've thrown a fit so I avoided that.

Which fights do you mean besides Elements?

Thespio is still at L-2 and we have no idea why. That wagon was lost between the main fight. Same for PvtUrist, there was some talks of PvtUrist scum but that didn't go anywhere.

If anybody is thinking of hammering, they should wait until after Pvt posts something useful.

Please don't let a hammer drop without allowing me one more post.

I have updated reads but I'd rather wait until there is an intent to hammer.

And I'd appreciate being taken off L-1 until this happens to avoid an "accidental hammer" from one of the lurkers.

This feels weird to me. It seems like you're just buying yourself time.

Please provide a couple sentence (or even just bullet points) on why you think I'm scum.

Your play in general and because I'm still OMGUSing you from you ignoring me in the beginning of the game. Your attitude didn't help either when Enter called you out. This is the attitude I'm talking about

pedit: Wow Loop. I thought you'd be better than this as an IC. The pity play is not making you look good man, just sayin'.

100% fair. I'll own this. I'll also probably never IC again. You'll see post-game that I really wanted to make this game a positive experience for newbies because we tend to lose them nowadays. But this game smacked me in the face with the reality that I shouldn't be doing this if I can't devote the time and effort to the game.

To me it comes across as trying to get town's sympathy and felt fake to me. I share Enter's points about flip-flop voting, sheeping, etc so I don't need to restate those.

Anyway, I don't think there's a point in starting up another wagon at this point. The main event in day 1 was Enter vs Loop and I want to see this battle go out to till the end.

The only thing I would add to that post is that scum!Loop would have self-hammered here before town starting looking past Loopdan-Enter.

Can you clarify this? Why would a scum player self-hammer?

Here's the thing: Everybody posting here recently is showing genuine-looking frustration.

Both scum are likely among the inactive players:
Munchmellow
Elements
Muh316
PvtUrist

There's an outside chance of scum!Thespio. I've been going back and forth on that these last pages but can't nail him down.

I'd still like responses to 477 and for the five players above to chime in before end of day. And I'd appreciate being taken off L-1 until this happens to avoid an "accidental hammer" from one of the lurkers.

Don't you think there's a higher chance of scum being from the players that are on your wagon if you so strongly feel that you're town?

Magik, I think you're being pocketed. Loop's sweet talk might be getting to you.

1. Munch disagreed with me on both Loop AND elements. This is what you get for skimming my ISO instead of actually reading it.
2. You're misrepping me and hiding behind "you're a jerk." Stop. That's not an excuse.

Hmm, I must have misread him, regardless your bottom 3 are all people who weren't with you, and you were wrong, why are all the people on your wagon town?

2. Dude im not hiding behind anything, cool you think its susp i didn't want to hammer someone that evolved. I agreed he looked scummy until he got into it with you, as soon as he did i felt he was town, elements who hid all game, while actively watching the game. He looked scum, and when i was on V/LA he began posting. I didn't even see his PR claim until D2 because it ended before i could review what happened. More importantly, blaming the people who picked him up as susp on d1 is stupid, If anything it puts us as town. Loop flipped town, we read him as town at the end of the day, so we looked at the next susp player. Anyone who votes someone they think is town with a ton of time remaining is acting against town. If I kept my vote there I would have seen myself as scum.


PEDIT, i read your whole post you dummy.

1) Someone who lurks, shows up to post, calls someone town and votes them. These are all scum attributes. Im not saying the number of town you push makes you bad, the number of town you kill makes you bad. I didnt get on elements because i suspected a potential power role to post scummy things. And like I said above in this post, I was on V/LA when he came out.

2)Muh echoed you, hard, look at your own ISO. Make sure you arent reading people because they agree with you or you will get pocketed. which is what i think is going to happen in this game, today you will push me/horse, skum will wagon with you Then tomorrow they will push the other with you. then we all lose because you couldnt criticize people who agree with you.

Actually stop saying things that are objectively wrong. Muh is in the bottom three (technically four) of my reads list. You can't just cherry pick what you want to read and ignore the facts.
Also I haven't pushed Magik today at all.
Who showed up to the game thread called someone town and then voted them? Please quote this for me because I'm pretty sure I've missed it.

And we got down to deadline w/ no lynch. Who was it yesterday who said they'd rather lynch themselves (conftown) than no lynch? Oh wait.

Your reasoning over calling me scummy because loop flipped town is only reasonable considering the fact that having less town players is worse for town. Under that same reasoning, pushing town players to claim PR and get NK'd is also worse for town. => Your reasoning here is dumb, please drop it.

1. Elements wasn't acting scummy. He said things that sounded scummy, but he wasn't acting scummy. I have a feeling someone isn't going to read the whole thing that I'm about to say, will take that first sentence, talk about how THEY THOUGHT elements was scummy and then consider my entire first point defeated, just because that's how most of these engagements have gone so far. Why you shouldn't do that, is because this point is completely and totally irrelevant of whether or not elements was acting scummy or not, Thespio's point against me was that I pushed town to lynch and that somehow makes me scummy. My point in return, is that he pushed two town players, and one of them was a PR, so calling me on this is dumb.

What else was anyone gonna do to get some outside information going on here? There was no other "scummy acting" going on besides the lurking squad that wasn't going to respond in a decent timeframe to make the push worthwhile, which is coincidentally why the Muh wagon broke up Day 1. You're putting the blame on him for taking the only available road to try and get some better information on other players, which is overall not cool.

No, what's not cool is pretending a town flip means everyone on the wagon was scummy. I don't know how you still don't get the point of this: I'm not calling Thesp scum because he pushed elements and loop. I'm saying Thesp's reasoning for calling me scum based solely on the fact that I was on loop's wagon when he flipped town is bad, and showing him in an example that is easily accessible why that is bad.

2. No, he's saying I'm scumreading anyone who disagreed with me, and that's an important distinction to make, because that's ACTUALLY wrong, and not just a correlation between my reads and what happened yesterday, as I previously pointed out.

The part two of point two here, is that you're ALSO wrong, because muh did provide reasoning for his read (spoilered later) and in addition, you're assuming that my town read is based on the fact that they agreed with me.

Muh's reason is a very, very lackluster "I think it looks fake" with no explanation on why and "I agree with Enter on top of that". That barely qualifies as an explanation given how vague and easy to make up it is. Had he actually explained why it "felt fake" I'd be inclined to agree with you on that.

Also, you have yet to give us any information to the contrary regarding your reads. With a lack of information for why you read people as you do, we must fill in the blanks with what we see, and that's exactly what it looks like from the outside perspective. You have only yourself to blame for that by not explaining your reads basically at all unless you're tunneling them.

Let me get this straight: You are drawing assumptions instead of asking questions, and you're blaming me for your failure? How does this add up for you?

I'm not discussing muh right now, because if I do I'll be biased to TR him based solely on the fact that I'm in the middle of an argument with both of you, and you continuously misrepresent and fail to understand the points of my case. Once we have this worked out, I'm more willing to approach my reads from a place of dispassion and I'm less likely to put them somewhere other than where they really are.

Who showed up to the game thread called someone town and then voted them? Please quote this for me because I'm pretty sure I've missed it.

Elements with this string of posts, although he technically voted Loop and then called him Town, not the other way around:

post 562 seems utterly irrelevant to anything. Can people stop letting loopdan waste time and lynch him VOTE: loopdan

i don't think you're scum.

I think you are town

but the lynch that will give us the most information when you flip. The rest of the conversations going on are the same thing that's been going on for two days and all it's doing is making people angry with the game

WAIT, WTF IS THIS. If he is town you get the same info as if he is town, how does this make any sense, can we all quickly evaluate Elements?

this was poorly worded it sould've been: "

i think loopdan is town

, but his lynch will tell us the most information"

The wagon came shortly thereafter.

Oh I see what you're getting at. I disagree that that was scummy, but p sure we had that discussion before.

Who showed up to the game thread called someone town and then voted them? Please quote this for me because I'm pretty sure I've missed it.

Elements did:

i don't think you're scum. I think you are town but the lynch that will give us the most information when you flip. The rest of the conversations going on are the same thing that's been going on for two days and all it's doing is making people angry with the game

This was his post after voting loopdan in post 163

I agree that you just being on the wagon doesnt make you scum, i do think like i said that the majority of your scum (as you pointed out there was 1 outlier) are all the people who didnt want to kill town. Why in gods green earth wouldnt i just have agreed with you as scum, you have a loud voice, your posts are walls, scum imo would want you pocketed, or want you to think they were in your pocket. seriously do the math, 2 of the 7 of us are bad, so only 5 town, scum would have spent most of yesterday preparing to ML today. so loopdans ML is where we should start, that makes horse town (admittedly this makes my munch read wrong) Munch town, im obv town. RCE is still in deep shit from their predecessor and they didnt vote to save town they just didnt vote at all.

Wait let me get this straight: Your argument is that scum guaranteed did not vote loopdan? LOL

Let's go down the list of reasons you didn't hammer:
1. WK points
2. Scummy quickhammers
3. Dragging out day for town points = more town points
4. Looked like loop would get lynched anyways and you'd get points for not being on it.

Now let's talk about how it's super funny that this reasoning appears out of thin air after we've been in day two for a while and it completely flips your munch read, but it makes so much sense to you? Lol

Oh I see what you're getting at. I disagree that that was scummy, but p sure we had that discussion before.

So if i said "Enter I think you are town" and voted you, that would make you tr me?

We already had this discussion. I can quote myself at you, or you can read my ISO. Either way, he didn't just say "loopdan I think you're town" and vote him. Pls stop cherry picking your arguments.

Ultimately elements was a mistake, but his string of posts was the most scum filled thing i had seen all game, loops activity made me see them as town, prior when they were avoiding confrontation i saw your point. So when i see yesterday, with the 5 of you on loop, 2 of those 5 ruled out (horse because he was on elements for legit reasons, and elements being dead, it leaves the remaining 3 as susp.

WTF are you misrepping here?

I didnt hammer because i wasnt online, when i posted intent i didnt get back on until he was dead. Im running theories here, your wagon contained scum. PERIOD. you are now in my bottom two because i miss read munch. so you are my first suspect.

and yes, i know he didnt in the same post, but he called him town, voted him, then called him town again. can you literally stop tunnelling and objectively evaluate your wagon? or is that to hard, at this point ignoring you progresses this game more then interacting with you. you arent building you are muddying the game.

Good. Vote me please.

First I want to get some things straight real quick tho:
1. The fact that elements was a mistake IS THE POINT. Loopdan was also a mistake, and the fact that you excuse elements but not loop is what I'm pointing out as flawed.
2. You've been misrepping me and "muddying the game" since I scumread you a couple posts ago, which is the same thing you did the last time I scumread you.
3. There is no wagon on you, stop using buzzwords to sound like you know what you're talking about.
4. Your argument is that loopdan flipped town => there was scum on his wagon. But what I'm trying to get you to realize, is that if Elements wasn't a PR, he also would have flipped town, and loopdan wouldn't have flipped at all. And you would be scumreading an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SET OF PEOPLE. Someone even dropped an intent to hammer on elements.

I'm pointing out how absolutely DEVOID OF LOGIC your argument is and you're calling me scum and misrepping me.

Also out of curiosity, what is it that you think that I'm misrepping you on?

You cant take any pressure, you get all flustered, feel like you are being misrepped which you arent. shitpost with stuff like this:

Wait let me get this straight: Your argument is that scum guaranteed did not vote loopdan? LOL

Let's go down the list of reasons you didn't hammer:
1. WK points
2. Scummy quickhammers
3. Dragging out day for town points = more town points
4. Looked like loop would get lynched anyways and you'd get points for not being on it.

which isnt even anything to do with my post.

M8 chill, im being objective, i didnt tunnel someone into oblivion, and even while questioning you notice i still have someone i suspect more. Ill grant you it might have been a mistake, but you still miss the mark everywhere else.

LOL who can't take pressure? I voted you and you reacted like this:

"we arent gonna have you tunnel one guy."

As far as reading you for different reasons, pretty sure you agreed with me that something was wrong with the loopdan read, so OMGUSing me for approaching my other reads differently is also dumb. Stop.

I did agree but you never progressed beyond that, you didnt push anyone else, when we have 4 active players (you, me, loopdan, and Horse) its hard to actually get accurate reads on anyone. Also the fact you see RCE as scum and me as scum confirms to me that you only scumread people who dont agree with you. You attacked Horse for the same thing, notice your reads, you put him at the bottom. I think everyone ought to seriously look at the fact you hard tunneled a townie yesterday and now you are trying to put shade on anyone who resisted or didnt vote your way. Its not missrepping when you literally post it

Rough draft:

Town

Skellen
Munch
Thespio/Muh
===
Magik
RCE

Scum

This is weird for me cuz I think there's prolly only one scum between Magik/RCE, but that's where I sit atm.

Oh dang there it is. You putting the people who didnt shift. Beyond that your reason for lynching me is that im omgusing, except im not, ive not voted you im reading your iso. i can summarize it:

Tunnels Loopdan
interacts with me (still tunnelling loopdan)
Tunnels Loopdan
Attacks Horse (still tunnelling loopdan)
Lynches Loopdan
Loopdan flips green
Puts everyone who was off loopdan or was hesitant to vote loop on their scum list.


I just want to know why you think scum werent on your wagon, and im not TR RCE you are just the most obvscum right now, FOS on Enter.

And yeah, it does have to do with your post, you said

Why in gods green earth wouldnt i just have agreed with you as scum

Please actually chill and pay attention

The first bit of 1066 is already being discussed between the two of you, so I'm cutting that piece out since it's no longer relevant.

Let me get this straight: You are drawing assumptions instead of asking questions, and you're blaming me for your failure? How does this add up for you?

Nice loaded question, but that doesn't do much to change the fact that you can't expect us to be able to read your mind. If you don't explain things you're just leaving yourself open to interpretation, which is your own consequence of not explaining them.

Take a moment if you need to to get over the arguments you've just been in/are still in, then please enlighten us on your reasoning instead of just tossing blame at us for misunderstanding your unexplained reads. That's honestly a better way to kill that off as an argument than arguing the validity of filling in your holes.

I'm not asking you to read my mind, I'm asking you to ask questions if you have them, because I, also, cannot read your mind and know what you need/want more information on.

There is no wagon on you, stop using buzzwords to sound like you know what you're talking about.

dude you hard core were fishing for wagons, you popped your vote down, saw someone vote me, and voted me because reasons. XD you are so anti town that if you arent scum you should re-evaluate your play style.

Lol . So now you're assuming every time someone puts down a vote, they're "fishing for wagons?" What even is that?
And regardless, that doesn't change the fact that there is STILL no wagon on you, which makes what you said STILL wrong.

Also, I thought I was your primary target? Why is your vote still not on me?

Finally, I'm "anti town" because I put votes on people that I think are scummy? Please explain yourself more here, because I'm not the person that has been misrepresenting people all of day two.

You flipped out when i suggested we not ignore your skummy wagon.

Dude we talked about this D1, I want to look at PVTs slot. I want RCE to explain the shiftyness of their slot and why their vote didnt move.

Also im not failing to be objective you are just arent explaining yourself you just say you were misrepped.

[Thespio]

I'm not asking you to read my mind, I'm asking you to ask questions if you have them, because I, also, cannot read your mind and know what you need/want more information on.

After dragging on the whole first day in a quest to get more information including detailed readslists, why would you think I wouldn't want this? Readslists are always better off with descriptions of why people are there or what has changed since the last time, with no exceptions I can think of. More information in general is better unless there's a reason not to put it out (e.g. suspecting that someone is a PR).

Either way, just prove us wrong if you can by explaining them. This argument is pointless and is only going to yield frustration.

I agree with this.

[Thespio]

Talk about not reading posts

[Thespio]

Puts vote on X (no traction) >> puts vote on Y, player is active and replies >> keeps vote in hopes others will misslynch because scum or anti town. Very linear.

You still aren’t reading my posts.

[Thespio]

You can't just accuse someone of not reading your posts just because you don't like/don't understand what they say.

How about because you only responded to half of my post?

[Thespio]

Ill get too it after im off work, gimme a few hours, its why my posts are short.

[Thespio]

In post 1037, RCEnigma wrote:
In the unvote section Muh should be Thespio instead. Muh is in there twice as a vote on magic and not voting. Also Magik is striked out twice

Also i will leave this here for the guy who thinks he is solo on me.

[Thespio]

Oh i see where the communication failed. I dont think that makes you someone fishing for wagons. Also not sure why the mod said that RCE was right about a vote being on me if they didnt actually vote me. but whatever. maybe i misunderstood it, saw you jump your vote and your reason wasnt really a reason. That to me looked like an opportunistic, fishing for wagons. Then your reaction seemed super antagonistic and survivalist and you had no votes which seemed off. Can we look at RCE now? you arent my #1 he is, and honestly now that i understand what you were talking about i wouldn't say you are in my bottom two anymore.

Were on better grounds in my mind, sorry about the doubt, i stand by that some evil bastard was on your wagon. perhaps PVT being afk is why they didnt hammer.

[Thespio]

VOTE: RCE

[Thespio]

@skellen does a RCE/Muh team feel probable?

[Thespio]

@skellen does a RCE/Muh team feel probable?

Ah, speak of the devil. I think I answered it with my recent post.

great minds.

[Thespio]

In regards to RCE's slot. I know this isn't really considered AI in general, but I think pvtUrist replaced out intentionally to clear out his slot. I looked at his post history and he's been active in his other games, even leading up to his replacement. I've seen this strategy used a couple times by scum who replace out their slot once they get pressured. They think it gives their replacement a clean slate to work with.

Tying this in with RCE's initial self-scumread, this looks like an attempt at "cleaning" a slot that was heavily scumread.

What made you scum read him? If it’s my case why am I null?

[Thespio]

In regards to RCE's slot. I know

this isn't really considered AI

in general, but I think pvtUrist replaced out intentionally to clear out his slot. I looked at his post history and he's been active in his other games, even leading up to his replacement.

I've seen this strategy used a couple times by scum who replace out their slot once they get pressured.

They think it gives their replacement a clean slate to work with.

Tying this in with RCE's initial self-scumread,

this looks like an attempt at "cleaning" a slot that

was

heavily scumread.

It really urks me how you can try to condemn someone but not really, you are playing the border. Ill highlight the text above im referring to. You start out stating this post doesnt matter because its not ai, then you try to agree with us while using past tense verbage to describe their actions as if they arent anymore. this is a huge red flag for me, because to me if you are scum this isnt your partner. and town dont step on eggshells to discuss everyones number one sr. It looks like you are trying to agree with us without actually looking too deep at RCE, so if RCE shows he is town you wont be his first pick.

[Thespio]

I'd like to see you have reads and push them.

And "frustrated" might be a better word.

I have a scumread on Muh and am actively pushing things on him and countering his points against me. What more do you expect right now?

Looking over muh all he does is echo, but just a tone less aggressive than who he is echoing, there’s no original arguements, the verbage they use give them an out, if we flip RCE and they are green muh could easily say they were hesitant on the wagon and that they weren’t going all out. I want rce to stop being lazy and engage but that makes me feel like they are town, certainly scum would be more survivalistic. This makes muh a my new #1 and RCE a close second.

VOTE: Muh

[Thespio]

Ill answer Skellens post and respond this this laughable post from munch, I know you have been less active but when your entire case lies behind 500 posts ago its kind of funny. but since you are either still catching up or ignoring the rest of the game ill address it all.

[Thespio]

Ill answer Skellens post and respond this this laughable post from munch, I know you have been less active but when your entire case lies behind 500 posts ago its kind of funny. but since you are either still catching up or ignoring the rest of the game ill address it all.

Yes, please do, so we can laugh together.
And as said, you do a lot of townie stuff too. But if we should forget scummy stuff, because they happend long ago, then nobody should mention Pvt again...

Pvt had less then 5 posts and then swapped out, we can only talk about him in terms of the past. Its like any other topic, if someone dies you cant continue to evaluate them. do you tr pvt/Rce? im at work so my big reply will be delayed

[Thespio]

@All, ill be using some V/LA I just got a job offer at a competing firm, I will still try to reply to Munch, and contribute but for the next 3 days ill be V/LA as i switch jobs!

[Thespio]

@Muh, you voted RCE but he isnt in your case in any way as far as your math goes.

[Thespio]

I'll just post my Thespio readings and than put my vote somewhere (I actually have to think which way to go).
Enter made a nice post that summarizes how I see Thespio

Thespio has a weird talent for making really scummy posts and really towny posts back to back.

What I didn't like at the beggining was his self-sacrificing comment in 69. And here we have another self-hammering offer in 198. This last interaction with Enter was really wierd, actually this whole page was wierd (talking about Thespio), which is probably why my vote stayed on him for so long, even when he started with more townie posts:
It starts with 181, where Thespio totaly townreads Loopdan and votes PvT. Then announces L-1, which it was not. Starts bickering with Enter and in 193 says he is gonna self-vote, so Enter can hammer him if he thinks he's scum. Enter answers and tells him to do it. In 198 Thespio says he will self-hammer (Enter didn't vote him, so he is L-2 and can't actually self-hammer, Enter wants him to self-vote, so he can hammer). In my language we have a proverb, that would summarize all this nicely - the mountain shook and mouse was born. Meaning, there was much uproar and nothing happend. So after his last offer to selfhammer, topic was slowly changes and in 217 Thespio sees Enters point and Loopdans townread goes to scumread. I really didn't like this progression. And threatning to self-vote and when you see the other side would actually hammer you just reverse your stance... [/vote]I think people often dont admit or progress their views and end up hard core tunneling, I think you dislike this for what i said prior, someone adjusting their view isnt scummy, but if you munch play wifom and start trying to guess what scum would and wouldnt do when theres no difference then you might. It looks like you are paranoid at this point.

VOTE: Next thing that I didn't like is his vote on Elements.

@Horse, backup, are you seeing elements post too?? he literally recognizes someone as town and is like 'eh. killem'

Its less about rushing anything and moreso HE LITERALLY SAYS HE IS TOWN AND STILL WANTS HIM DEAD. THIS IS THE SCUMMIEST POST OF THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
VOTE: Elements Everything put together against loop, even from what i see is only a fraction of how skummy this post is.

Yes, I scumread Elements too and thought it was scummy to vote townread with a lot of time left. But calling it scummiest post of the game. Jumping on it like that.... I don't think so. It seems too much. The only thing that I don't know is what scum!Thespio would gain from such a vote switch. It is one town to another. Maybe searching for PR, since Loop claimed VT (I think Muh talked about this).

Another thing about Thespio and PR's:

^do you know a pr?

Did you just softclaim a pr?

O mean, what is an answer to: do you know a PR? Should he say: yes, I think a PR is ****. I mean PR should claim on D1 only when under intent to hammer. So why try to start conversation about it?!

I was going to scold Loop, hes an IC and should know better, it came at a time when I was less active so I posted before reading what i missed.

All this things make it really hard for me to trust Thespio, even when he says and does townie things.
And lets's not forget - Elements, when asked who his scumread would be if Loop flipped town said Thespio.

Link this but also who cares, he was a pr going on nothing, and he was pretty universally scum read, I genuinely think at this point WIFOM is why you are voting me, because you shouldnt be voting based on a dying wish that couldnt be verified. Also, this should clear me to some degree, he was Jailor, If he thought it was me wouldnt he jail me?


We

[Thespio]

Also, this should clear me to some degree, he was Jailor, If he thought it was me wouldnt he jail me?

What is your point here? How do we know he didn't jail you? How do YOU know he didn't jail you?

We dont which is why him calling a kill list doesnt matter, is there any valid reason that doesnt rely on you guessing some far out situation for voting me?

[Thespio]

EBWOP: the point is your reasoning is super reliant on you guessing something, you are saying im guilty for seeing reason in Enters points because as scum i know he is innocent, and thus im just wagoning, and I talked about PRs because i was hunting for them, plus the person who was NKed thought i was scum. However the reason is in the discussion, when Loop was barely posting, and was just jumping in to make small comments (as his ISO shows) Enters argument made sense, I thought I saw him post his role which upset me which is why those posts are so close together. Then when I felt loop was active and posting as town I, along with Magik, Turned to the scummiest player with only a few days left hoping we could find scum. All of which are IMO pretty easy to see when you read the game.

[Thespio]

You guys are driving me nuts, what a dramatic day.

Some wild thoughts based on votes and interactions however without any details. So take it for what it is.

If muh flips scum there are only Thespio who threw him under the bus then and Munch left, who hesitates in voting him.

If muh flips town Thespio can only be a team with Magik as Munch and RCE are very unlikely. Magik goes additionally with Munch, maybe RCE but not so sure with him ditching the muh wagon.

RCE and Munch are kind of the outsider here.

Dunno if that helps concerning a decision, it's a matter of which possibilities you would rather see cut off.

So you basically think its me no matter what this flip is. My opinion is if he flips town we are basically so far off base we need to reevaluate everyone. He will flip red though, and when he does I am leaning towards Pvt/RCE slot.

[Thespio]

^Yea, the mod should count it, we all agreed, I think a NL would have to be a distinct us completely split or voting not to.

[Thespio]

There was no claim, idk if that is indicative of what they are about to flip (like scum who is just done with the game) or if they just never were active.

[Thespio]

Anyone present was responsible for the hammer on D2.

But I think I see where you're coming from now? Still feels wrong and I expect differently from you.

This day is a mess

Yeah it kind of pisses me off, munch should have just hammered, now we are in LYLO and we could have got scum, still think its muh but im not going to vote until later in the day to avoid a lolhammer loss.

[Thespio]

Also Im trying to deduce why scum would kill skellen over Enter, skellen wasnt as townie as enter is.

[Thespio]

1. I thought Skellen was the obvious choice for the kill last night, but I can see why you would disagree
2. Because they thought I was more likely to vote Magik/RCE

So based on that your belief is its Muh/Munch? they kept you alive to lynch them? I feel like if im scum I kill munch, I do want to know how munch fucked up the lynch. With so little time left and having everyone posted, Im also assuming muh is claiming VT based on their reaction to yesterday.

[Thespio]

Makes no sense for scum to kill munch, she's the most obvious lynchbait in the world right now.

True, the missed Lynch is very baity, something in my gut has always made munch feel off to me. but Im not going to touch that until tomorrow I guess, I still think we should give everyone time to talk and hope we can catch a slip up.

[Thespio]

Makes no sense for scum to kill munch, she's the most obvious lynchbait in the world right now.

True, the missed Lynch is very baity, something in my gut has always made munch feel off to me. but Im not going to touch that until tomorrow I guess, I still think we should give everyone time to talk and hope we can catch a slip up.

I refuse to jump on a lynch based on one post, and you should as well based on the elements push.

Vote muh and let's get this over with.

Ill vote him soon, I dont want to leave him L-1 so early, Ill be off work in 4 hours (last day in hell before my new job) then Ill vote.

[Thespio]

Wow. Ok, I said we're not talking about PRs.

VOTE: Magik

Actually stop.

I do NOT support this, you will not convince me otherwise.

[Thespio]

Wow. Ok, I said we're not talking about PRs.

VOTE: Magik

Actually stop.

I know you said no PR talk, but I had to shut down the "what if there's a Tracker to claim stuff?" excuse off entirely, and that does the job pretty darned well dont'cha think?

I never said I thought there was no PR. I just said a claim alone isn't enough to make it believable at this point in time, as there's only about a 50% chance of it being legit. This is a presumption you've made.

That's fair

UNVOTE: .

I'll believe a specific claim from a specific player, that if it comes out correctly it explains pretty much everything.

NVm

[Thespio]

Wow. Ok, I said we're not talking about PRs.

VOTE: Magik

Actually stop.

I know you said no PR talk, but I had to shut down the "what if there's a Tracker to claim stuff?" excuse off entirely, and that does the job pretty darned well dont'cha think?

I never said I thought there was no PR. I just said a claim alone isn't enough to make it believable at this point in time, as there's only about a 50% chance of it being legit. This is a presumption you've made.

That's fair

UNVOTE: .

I'll believe a specific claim from a specific player, that if it comes out correctly it explains pretty much everything.

Enter you're gonna give me a complex...

Ha. I'm sorry. I'm a bit... erratic at the moment and I'm scared of a scum win. If they do win and all this time I've known what I know, I'll be very disappointed, so I figured I'd at least give it one more ballsy toss at the wall.

We we will do it like this. Thespian will claim and then people can say whether they think he's right or wrong and then we Lynch based off that.

Are you asking me to claim? I think it’s appropriate at this point I the game so we win, I think we should look at muh though, I’m saying this a little more forcefully. I’ve reread him and pooled all my resources and logic, my scumdar says guilty.

[Thespio]

OK, Im a Town Tracker:
N1: Enter - No Result
N2: Muh - Visited Skellen

I'm basically a sitting duck now but it means we make it another day. then you can catch the final scum then.

[Thespio]

VOTE: Muh

[Thespio]

Alright so either we're right or we're deeply wrong.

At this point it doesn't matter, because we either have both scum pinned or neither. So we'll do it like this.

I've been pretty sure since night one (I suspected day one) since I've been calling this player scum in an attempt to keep him low on the scumdar. I have an explanation that makes a lot of sense here, but first I need to verify,.

Thespio, you should claim now, prolly just so we can end this madness.

I admit this is a little self-indulgent on my side, but if I'm completely wrong on him, we should lynch now rather than later.

I assume this is what you were waiting for, Im not sure if you are some mad genius who knew I was playing the line to so I didnt come up as a target for scum, or if you were senile when posting and guessed it.

[Thespio]

I get checking enter after Loop flipped kind of, but why follow muh? It looked like you were convinced muh was flipping red so in my mind the play would be to check your next read. In this case me.

That may be a playstyle thing but it makes more sense to me.

The enter check was to make sure we didnt have scum skimming the surface just focusing people down, Munch would have been my next pick but the NL puts us in MY/LYLO so my assumption would be enter would push a lynch on MUH just because he should have died yesterday, this was confirmation to me, If he came back town it would keep us from losing.

[Thespio]

VOTE: Thespio We've caught him boys.

This means we're playing the goon/goon setup with only one PR. If you don't know already I'm a VT.

Why are you just now active? The enter invest is what I did, it’s logical, I think Enter pegged me after we clashed and i decided he wasn’t scum, but you are a ghost all game and now you come out of the woodworks when you are caught, cute but spamposting and pretending that you are some productive town member isn’t going to fool them.

[Thespio]

I think I see where Enter is going with this (which is a first for this game). I wrote a small defense, but I think this needs to ride a little bit before I throw that out.

Still, after Munch posts I'd like to hear how Enter pegged Thespio as Tracker like this. I hope I don't have to explain why that pings me as strange.

Yeah I guess it’s possible he’s a rolecop but I got no result on him, unless I guess the jail keeper thought I was susp, so I guess I could have been jailed BUT I do think he picked up on me when we clashed.

[Thespio]

It's very convenient that he investigated our only universal town read. That just makes him the perfect candidate for a N3 kill so that we don't have any other choices.

Maybe you are DENSE but a misslynch at this point is our loss, i get maybe you are trying to get them to forget that as scum, but I wont let them.

[Thespio]

I think I see where Enter is going with this (which is a first for this game). I wrote a small defense, but I think this needs to ride a little bit before I throw that out.

Still, after Munch posts I'd like to hear how Enter pegged Thespio as Tracker like this. I hope I don't have to explain why that pings me as strange.

Yeah I guess it’s possible he’s a rolecop but I got no result on him, unless I guess the jail keeper thought I was susp, so I guess I could have been jailed BUT I do think he picked up on me when we clashed.

Did you get "no result" or "he didn't go anywhere"? Pretty sure there's a difference between the two.

I believe there is but I got No Result not that they didn’t visit anyone.

[Thespio]

I see a clear Thespio/Magik team right here. Magik's the only one so far who's believed the claim. The night results are way too convenient for scum given that he didn't bother investigating someone like RCE,Munch, or Magik given that those are the town's most confusing reads.

It also plays perfectly into the scum plan of getting me lynched today so that they can get a win easily. If you were so convinced that I'm scum then why wouldn't you investigate somebody who could be a possible partner? Did you leave any breadcrumbs that you are the tracker?

Finally, it's also extremely convenient that you said I carried out the NK. If I was scum, I would have probably had my partner carry out the kill since we would know about the possibility of a tracker.

Your trying to widow and you stink at it, a rolecop can’t kill unless they are solo, so you had to kill or there wouldn’t have been a kill.

[Thespio]

The autocorrect! You’re and wifom

[Thespio]

I'm with Enter here. I'll explain why your claims are bogus after Munch posts. For now, I would suggest that everyone not jump to a lynch just yet. We still have 6 days left to discuss everything.

How are you with enter, he hasn't said anything yet, he called my role. if you are with him you too believe I'm tracker.

[Thespio]

If that is all you are referring too then cool. It will be entertaining for you to explain this.

[Thespio]

I missed that part of no result. But that just ties into the convenience of it all. I'm not even going to ask for Magik's opinion since he's Thespio's partner. But for the rest of you, don't you think that this is all a little too convenient from a scum perspective? Getting no result on D1 and then getting a scum result D2. It's the perfect strategy when looking at it from a fakeclaim.

Then comes out with the fact that Thespio didn't really have to claim. I was already at L-2 at that point, so I could have easily been lynched within a few real life days of discussion. Why would a PR bother claiming and risking getting NK'd N3? They would be far more valuable on D4.

I want you guys to look at the pattern of posting from Thespio. He's gotten really aggressive and changed his style which is typically an indication of lying behavior.

You intentionally missed it, there was more then one post, how would you expect someone to act on a no result? My initial thought was that there may be a RB so I came out swinging, so after a short while at work I looked at the chart and realized there would have to be a role cop, so I backpedled. I also got to be honest the self vote retrospectively was bad however claiming tracker day one almost certainly would have gottten me killed n1 so in my mind there’s no difference and then stats wise we continue with the same odds.

Now muh, I HAVE TO CLAIM BECAUSE IF WE DONT KILL YOU WE LOSE AND YOU WIN, we are in MYLO, if we lynch the wrong person or no one we lose, even though I die tonight we get an extra day where it’s 2/1, thing is I personally would beat myself if I was scum because I was being tr and this almost certainly is so overwhelmingly risky, which is why it would make no sense, You and Munch make so much more looking at how you both lurk, munch takes a full day, if he’s scum you are sitting in a PT debating a CC.

Everyone needs to rally here because tomorrow we will need the survivors to act on today, I’m fairly certain Enter and Magik are town, RCE is less scum a this point then munch, I’ll follow munch tonight in the chance that I live, I doubt that I do though.
The wagon looks town to me (PEDIT: was basically beat out by rce here) with Magic already on board us as a team would be stupid when we could have just tried to get a quick hammer off, I tr Magik HARD, so hard it freaks me out. Next is enter who I’m looking to lead now, they’re doing a good job and their hesitation whole it could be staged and it could be a Role Cop I personally think he’s town. That leaves the other 3, I assume mah or munch is rc andthey chose Magik then enter based in their slow development of reads, I’ve felt something has been off about munch since D1 no one here can deny they have as well, muh was loops scum read, so muh echos town and pushes his lynch, never gives any lists or anything and we kill loop.

Now more to the most damning thing, there’s no counter wagon on muh, whoever his partner is, rce who has been hands off our munch who had been afk, both are logical reasons for no counter wagon, anyone think it’s odd there wasn’t?

PEDIT V2: enter I didn’t open with a vote because I don’t think you were gonn call me out, I thought you would play like D1 and not give mercy to him and I could stay under scums radar then we could do this tango D4. If I was scum why would i PR claim? We were past the point I would expect a quick hammer, and while impulsive you aren’t dumb. Notice the two muh/munch have the same case against my claim, muh is again just echoing people.

[Thespio]

Sorry for the looooooong one. Started it last night finished this morning.

[Thespio]

Now muh, I HAVE TO CLAIM BECAUSE IF WE DONT KILL YOU WE LOSE AND YOU WIN, we are in MYLO, if we lynch the wrong person or no one we lose, even though I die tonight we get an extra day where it’s 2/1, thing is I personally would beat myself if I was scum because I was being tr and this almost certainly is so overwhelmingly risky, which is why it would make no sense, You and Munch make so much more looking at how you both lurk, munch takes a full day, if he’s scum you are sitting in a PT debating a CC.

So why did you claim when we had 6 real life days left in the day? I was on my way to getting lynched already. If you were really a PR you would have at least waited to keep your identity sealed as much as possible. Possible until 72 hours before deadline.

I got called out for having a PR, imagine me telling town to wait 6 days while I decided if I wanted to claim. You aren’t reading the game, you aren’t following the progression, you did a good job of echoing the only case for you but now that there aren’t any posts against mine you have nothing of weight to say. Enter is just being safe and logical but he isn’t dumb. We will lynch you today and tomorrow we will get your partner.

And I don’t consider a no-you a point.

PEDIT: @Enter, reread his responses and tell me what points are actually made and why scum/town would say them, and then look at his later post and munches and tell me any differences, maybe I missed them but to me the look the same.

[Thespio]

Notice the two muh/munch have the same case against my claim, muh is again just echoing people.

I started the whole accusation against your fakeclaim...

Your writing style has changed as well and it's so obvious that you are lying. The CAPS and pushiness is similar to what you did when Elements supposedly "slipped up" and you're doing it again just to get the town behind you.

Notice, both in my meta and in this game I’ve used caps on people i scum read and people who are proven scum. You aren’t even really defending yourself, you should have fake claimed, which If I didn’t pull you would make me hesitant but based on everything that has happened you are today’s lynch, your true survivalistic tendencies come out. You were barely active all game popping up at convenient times for town cred, but you made a mistake, you got active only when you got accused, look at yesterday, you only get active before hammer and dissapear before the end.

PEDIT: I had to claim I can’t skirt around enter look at his playstyle, I even resisted a little bit of we don’t kill you we will lose. I’ll die tonight leaving 2 very towny people and your partner on the board.

[Thespio]

Then proceeds to claim a few hours later to get a quick lynch.

This is exactly what you said i would do as a real town pr, try to push conversation, try to learn, and I dont want you to die rn, I want you to keep talking, Im 100% OK waiting until 1 day remaining til we kill you, because the more you talk, and munch talks, the more you give him away. The reason I dont think he CC, is because he didnt want to risk dying and going into the final day just you and two town. So please, keep posting. I also live in central time US, the activity is mid day for us to about 6, its not late, that is not an excuse.

[Thespio]

I apologize I want everyone to see and understand, i guess it makes sense scum have to play to win, he isnt going to come out and say we got him. Also not a pocketing attempt, Theres this thing we do where we post reads, and all game ive read them like this for the most part, and them me.

[Thespio]

Are you saying Enter is scum?

[Thespio]

Im not sure what Muh means. Are you saying mod lied and enter is scum? I said the No result made me suspicious but after clashing I decided he was definitely town.

[Thespio]

Except muh my fos was early day 2 now it’s day 3 I’ve developed my reads, you have not, in any way.

[Thespio]

I’ll be at my families estate tonight so I will be less active, just as a heads up

[Thespio]

Back.

[Thespio]

Soooo.... slow day, just on a personal level, i only work at my old firm for like 3 more days, should i just quit? im really bored.

[Thespio]

I don't know what industry you work in but for software engineers we try not to burn bridges when leaving a company. That way you can continue using them as a reference or go back to the old company if you need to. You also have to figure out how it's going to affect you in terms of getting your paycheck or any left over benefits.

Yeah, its brokerage work, the other firm made me an offer to leave, heavy payout and some nice benefits, the current firm is basically having me sit at a desk and do nothing, easy money I guess but also really boring. the pay and taxes line up nicely so i wont have any overlap.

[Thespio]

This is all really unrelated to the game im just on the verge of dying from boredom.

[Thespio]

Thoughts on:

Nightkill

So Skellen does make sense for the nightkill, no offense Enter but Skellen was less set in her game view. Therefore I think less likely to be pocketed at any point. Muh/munch would have been in a good spot from day 1 just on the strength that they agreed against Loop. At the end of the day I don't think it makes a ton of difference given the push on muh end of day.

Day start

This will be short, neither Thespio or Muh do themselves any favors. Thespio should come out of the gate if his check is guilty. Muh brought this weird hypothetical where he's town but Thespio is also tracker. Not outright but in an implied way that sent shivers up my spine.

I think it's still worth going back and looking at day 1 considering most of the day Thespio was the counterwagon to Loop.

I also don't want to get into Magik and munch too much because I also feel biased that I was right on my town/scumreads but Enter and I have been on different pages of the same book for awhile n.

Enter what do you think about the day 1 wagons and specifically the end of day wagons. I'm mostly interested in how you feel the composition plays out.

I disagree, if I wasn’t asked for a reveal I could have possibly made it another day I’m going to die regulardless now. I was inntially split but my strat was going to be watching Muhs interactions, hence my early posts, but when enter called me as a Pr I thought everyone must have picked up on it so I claimed.

[Thespio]

@Enter, you listed 3 people one of which flipped town, the two alive town read you. Meanwhile muh is on that list and it’s because they were to busy lynching a townie. Where are you at right now with muh and I?

[Thespio]

Thespio is town tracker: Muh/munch is all that makes sense to me. But I think in that case he should have checked someone besides muh.

I am town, and even though I see why it would make sense to you, from my ppint of view, I have a hard time finding muh's partner if Thespio really is tracker.

So... you thought Thespio would claim Tracker since Day 2 and that's why you wanted to push him? Am I reading this right?

No, I was thinking Thespio's play D1 was only logical to me if he was VT, so a push on Thespio and him claiming would make me scumread him more. Claiming any PR, I wasn't even thinking specific PR's (kind of excluded doctor, because it would only make sense to heal Elements D1 and that didn't happen).

What was the play here? If I’m town my logic about ratios stands, regardless of my role, if I’m scum then I?... get no cred and look scummy? Explain what impact you see this having.

[Thespio]

What was the play here? If I’m town my logic about ratios stands, regardless of my role, if I’m scum then I?... get no cred and look scummy? Explain what impact you see this having.

So, you didn't mean it, when you said - I would rather you lynch me than no lynch? And what was that - I will vote myself etc. all about? Was there a purpose behind those self-sacrifocing posts?

No I did, my logic on ratios stands, I’m just not sure what you thought I would gain as scum, at that point I was making sure we all could avoid a day like today.

[Thespio]

No I did, my logic on ratios stands, I’m just not sure what you thought I would gain as scum, at that point I was making sure we all could avoid a day like today.

I don't get this logic. I could get it coming from VT, but a PR is much more important for town and saying it's better to lynch a PR than no lynch... no, I totally disagree and this is what it makes it hard for me to believe your claim.

I mean I dont really care if you think it makes sense the logic is there, theres no guarantee I wouldnt have died except the fact that im not a universal town read, when it came down to it I didnt die D1, and I caught scum. Today with no CC it would be unwise to kill me, especially since the night will confirm my role, If you dont buy my claim who does that put next on the chopping block for you? Muh was the person you were supposed to kill yesterday, did something exclusively related to them cause you to start TR them? also, what happened with D2 lynch m8?

[Thespio]

No I did, my logic on ratios stands, I’m just not sure what you thought I would gain as scum, at that point I was making sure we all could avoid a day like today.

I don't get this logic. I could get it coming from VT, but a PR is much more important for town and saying it's better to lynch a PR than no lynch... no, I totally disagree and this is what it makes it hard for me to believe your claim.

also the logic is D1 ML doesnt matter because the odds are significantly against us D1, so regardless of role D1 we should kill which puts us 2 scum to 5 town D2, we also want a lynch even if its a ML it sets us up better for D3, D3 should be at worst 2 scum, 3 town, a 2/5 chance of killing scum at worst. 1/5 in a perfect world. Because we set up lynch we need to be careful not to kill anyone but muh (saying this knowing out of the 2 of us I am town), If you kill me we lose, if we kill outside of muh and I then we only have half the odds of killing scum. This is a game but there is math behind it.

[Thespio]

Today with no CC it would be unwise to kill me, especially since the night will confirm my role, If you dont buy my claim who does that put next on the chopping block for you?

With 72 hours left in the day and no other significant developments, it's far too risky to look outside of lynching either me or you. If we start looking outside this pool, town's chances of lynching scum are lowered significantly. Within our pool, there's a 50% chance of catching scum because one of us is lying (it's you).

I didn’t say to look outside, I’m making a point, if I’m scum a fakeclaim is dumb, it can be countered and it puts me in line even though I wasn’t even next to be lynched.

[Thespio]

A fakeclaim is very convenient for scum in the goon/goon setup where it's guaranteed that there's no possible counterclaim.

Now look who is getting into WIFOM, why would I fake claim if im not in anyones top two? If I was scum and you and RCE/Munch are in everyones top two scum reads why wouldnt i just let them kill you? Oh wait its because im actually a tracker and I was asked to claim. You/munch/rce should have fake claimed, you would have had a better chance of pulling the wool over everyones eyes.

[Thespio]

Now look who is getting into WIFOM, why would I fake claim if im not in anyones top two? If I was scum and you and RCE/Munch are in everyones top two scum reads why wouldnt i just let them kill you? Oh wait its because im actually a tracker and I was asked to claim. You/munch/rce should have fake claimed, you would have had a better chance of pulling the wool over everyones eyes.

Now look who is getting into WIFOM.

Except it’s not, WIFOM is debating something we can’t know anything about, readlists are posted. We all know what everyone thought about me so examining it isn’t wifom, cute you think so though.

[Thespio]

I didn’t say to look outside, I’m making a point, if I’m scum a fakeclaim is dumb, it can be countered and it puts me in line even though I wasn’t even next to be lynched.

No, it would be dumb in other circumstances. Right now scum knows in which scenario we are, so if we are in C column, scum knows there will be no counterclaim and with a mislynch town looses, so no, it is not dumb but very smart.

Ok again, before my claim who did you have as your top scum? Everyone else had muh, why would I throw myself under a bus with a Pr claim if I wasn’t under threat?

[Thespio]

Ok again, before my claim who did you have as your top scum? Everyone else had muh, why would I throw myself under a bus with a Pr claim if I wasn’t under threat?

Timing of a claim seems off to me, if you are town. You weren't under a threat, so why claim. Just because Enter said so? If muh is scum and you are tracker, then you are gonna get killed tonight. So why claim to lynch a player who was mostly scumread and you had other options to push his lynch. And you could try to find his partner tonight.
Before your claim, I was thinking you could be scum.

Everyone else had me middle of the road, as scum does a claim benifit me if it guarantees I’m on the chopping block? You recognize I wasn’t under a ton of pressure, and yes I was kind of shocked my Pr had been called, so I claimed, I didn’t immediately claim. Also It was all I had when I claimed seeing as I got a NR N1.

[Thespio]

Everyone else had me middle of the road, as scum does a claim benifit me if it guarantees I’m on the chopping block?

But it doesn't put you on a chopping block. There is no way to prove you are fakeclaiming. No way town would kill you, specially because muh was scumread. I was the only one who scumread you and even I am not gonna vote for you. Because yes, you could be town PR and I might be biased because I scumread you before the claim and because I don't agree with you on a self-sacrificing topic.

Then who do you propose we lynch?

[Thespio]

I don't know if I believe it, because his claim was ... inconsistent with what I'd expect from him as far as investigations and reactions to such.

I don't know. I'm sorry I'm making a trip across the country at the moment, I can get to this in more detail tonight and tomorrow.

you're good, we still have time, there isnt a ton to read but I would recommend a look at it.

[Thespio]

Everyone else had me middle of the road, as scum does a claim benifit me if it guarantees I’m on the chopping block? You recognize I wasn’t under a ton of pressure, and yes I was kind of shocked my Pr had been called, so I claimed, I didn’t immediately claim. Also It was all I had when I claimed seeing as I got a NR N1.

Don't you think you would be A LOT more valuable if you had a result from N2 AND N3? Your claim makes zero sense and you should feel bad for fakeclaiming this early.

Muh we ml here and we lose, a prominent townie read asked for a claim, I asked if they were sure before because they are smart enough to know I will die, why do you think I would have only made it to N3? How do you know when scum would have killed me?

Muh/munch are my top two, munch so you know I’m following you tonight, so you had better kill me tonight. Munch is Demi a derby constantly and something has always felt off, I’ll know tonight even if no one else does.

Muh was caught red handed, I really want everyone to post why I would fake claim concisering everyone else’s readlists from D2.

[Thespio]

I WAS ALREADY ON MY WAY TO BEING LYNCHED THE PERSON THAT YOU "SCUM CONFIRMED" SO THERE IS NO REASON TO POP OUT AND SAY "HEY THIS GUY IS SCUM CONFIRMED" WHEN TOWN IS ALREADY TRYING TO LYNCH HIM.

EXACTLY SO WHY WOULD I FAKE CLAIM? EXPLAIN HOW THAT MAKES ANY SENSE!!!!

[Thespio]

Your results don't matter at that point since you only had ONE confirmed read and an action is being taken on that ONE read. If the tracker does make it through N3 they are extremely valuable on D4. Therefore, it would be in the town's best interest for that tracker to remain hidden. Given that you have 3+ years on this site you should know this.

I do know this, but a MYLO in a newbie game is the same thing as the last 2 minutes of the 4th quarter in Football, people tend to get in their own heads and flop. It took me years to get used to MYLO/LYLO and having a tracker claim that saves town from an early loss is not a bad deal.

[Thespio]

We were both on though, as you can see by the posts, so not really

[Thespio]

I’m fine waiting.

[Thespio]

Yeah :p well done RCE, you guys did great!

[Thespio]

Even if you guys killed me though we kill enter at night, and Magik was so supportive of me it would have been an easy misslynch

[Thespio]

I honestly could see an RCE/Thespio scumteam RN.

[Thespio]

RCE you played fantastically

Not gonna lie

Thespio I would have lynched you like 4x over this game for that play

XD my scum game is a bit rusty. Also self lyches are rarely ok.

[Thespio]

I feel really dumb. I pushed Thespio day 2 because I thought he was a PR and I wanted to save him from a NK. And then munch pushed too and I was like "ha, she's scum cuz she's pushing someone other than the two people on the table today."

Enter you really wanted me to be town and in your brain you knew but your heart couldnt help itself :p, I opted to keep you alive N2 because I felt we had a bond.

[Thespio]

I feel like this was actually an open normal game seeing as most people alive arent newbies, and 2 newbies are actually experienced.

[Thespio]

tbf I think you would have caught us if PVT hadnt popped his vote on me and gone afk, then I made a scene and we were instantly distanced, because he was afk I genuinely planned on lynching his slot D2/3 if he didnt return, but his replacement is a cool guys so I decided not to.

[Thespio]

I don't know why my phone auto-corrects scumread to acupressure.

it corrects my name to Thespian