I call... something.
I-it’s just an intro? Like I understand how RVS works, and I wanted a reason to create a circle of votes, but couldn’t find one. To answer the other question, because I still haven’t figured out multiquoting on mobile (I see the button, but it doesn’t open the reply), I DO have forum mafia experience outside of this game. I understand the importance of well-written replies, and I don’t believe that wanting to make a good first impression is something that necessarily means someone is aligned one way or another.In post 25, insomnia wrote:You wouldn’t. I would. And I have.
Enchantress has plenty of success with this. The intro post a person is coming up with can be really telling as to what they have in mind. Poyzin wanted to make a strong appearance and be liked by people. He worked on his post, you can tell. It wasn’t something goofy that villagers usually post.
In post 36, insomnia wrote:How much experience in terms of months played, not games?
I agree that I worked on the post, if for only 3 minutes or so to copyedit and make sure that I was communicating my intro properly. I do think about all my posts before I post them regardless of my alignment, which is why I don’t see an issue about the post in question. To answer your other question, I have played forum mafia for approximately a year and a quarter thus far, and I played in real life before that. So I’d like to think there is SOME sense in what I’m saying.In post 38, insomnia wrote:So you agree that you’ve worked on this post, and you’re saying you’re thinking about each of your posts like that as any alignment? Or you just don’t think it is generally AI?In post 35, Poyzin wrote:I understand the importance of well-written replies, and I don’t believe that wanting to make a good first impression is something that necessarily means someone is aligned one way or another.In post 25, insomnia wrote:You wouldn’t. I would. And I have.
Enchantress has plenty of success with this. The intro post a person is coming up with can be really telling as to what they have in mind. Poyzin wanted to make a strong appearance and be liked by people. He worked on his post, you can tell. It wasn’t something goofy that villagers usually post.
...did you read the setup before you started posting? While I cannot be sure whether you did or not, I do think that it is safe to say that you did AT LEAST know that the setup to this game was available. You claim that this is not your first game of mafia, and that you have been playing on other sites at #45. I'd like to think that you very well knew where to get your information about the setup.In post 70, IMASPY wrote:these jams got me thinking im ready to hammer now... am i right guys? I think we probably have all scum but 1 targeted right now..i am not quite sure how many scum is in this damn town.
I did not come in with a preset idea of how the votes would have turned out, as that would have required that I would have known that the opportunity to do so would arise immediately after the game starts, which I don’t believe to be feasible to prepare for. As for the second part, it admittedly wouldn’t help move us out of RVS. I saw the opportunity, and I capitalized on completing the circle than voting truly random.In post 95, Billy Pilgrim wrote:So you came in with a pre-set idea about how you wanted the votes to go, why? How does that help us move out of rvs?
In addenum, this would also be explained by dsjstr's behavior. If my read of them is correct, then dsjstr is probably town who doesn't want to die, and wants to make sure that he gets his point across that he is town. Because of such, his activity level increased upon being seriously pushed against. I am led to believe that this would be a completely normal activity flux; dsjstr gets talked about, so they feel the need to respond to everything being said about them. Especially with as much heat on dsjstr, there would definitely be many points to respond to.In post 194, IMASPY wrote:Also, you have only posted semi non filler when address directly. Look how attentive youve become after the vote.
Who are you to be the judge, jury, and executioner? I’m sorry that I don’t have all of the relevant quotes, but you asked dsjstr to defend himself, and then after he does, you decide it isn’t sufficient so you revote. Why would you unvote if you only planned on putting your vote back into dsjstr? I know that you could easily say “I wouldn’t have put my vote back I liked his defense” but that clearly isn’t the case based on this quote. Your vote isn’t worth more than any of the other players, and I’m sure that you didn’t need to unvote to make your point. You really just wanted to leverage your voting power, which as I stated doesn’t account for much.In post 227, IMASPY wrote:So dsjstr i will give you one more chance to defend yourself. Why are you still voting for dawoodle after you voted him to get information out of him? What has dawoodle done or said to convince you he is mafia?
This was not my point. While I truly don't believe that you intended to keep your vote off of dsjstr after your unvote, there is no evidence to say so. After all, every cause has an effect, and I cannot see into your head to determine what options were considered and what was not. It is just my opinion that you had no intention of sparing dsjstr, as it would be impossible for me to know the truth beyond speculation.In post 260, IMASPY wrote:Actually the reason i revoted is the same reason im still grilling him. I simply asked him to give a reason why he is voting for dawoodle still after pointing out that his L-2 vote on page 4 was scummy. He has dodged it 2 times so far and i have justed asked him a 3rd time. Its unfair for you to dismiss the possibility that i would have not revoted him if he answered my question.In post 258, Poyzin wrote:Who are you to be the judge, jury, and executioner? I’m sorry that I don’t have all of the relevant quotes, but you asked dsjstr to defend himself, and then after he does, you decide it isn’t sufficient so you revote. Why would you unvote if you only planned on putting your vote back into dsjstr? I know that you could easily say “I wouldn’t have put my vote back I liked his defense” but that clearly isn’t the case based on this quote. Your vote isn’t worth more than any of the other players, and I’m sure that you didn’t need to unvote to make your point. You really just wanted to leverage your voting power, which as I stated doesn’t account for much.In post 227, IMASPY wrote:So dsjstr i will give you one more chance to defend yourself. Why are you still voting for dawoodle after you voted him to get information out of him? What has dawoodle done or said to convince you he is mafia?
So I understand that you stated that you wouldn't be much help in reads, but do you have any other opinion on this besides echoing insomnia? If that is the case, that doesn't really do much in terms of wanting to contribute, but rather has you serve as a +1 buddy. There isn't anything wrong with agreeing with somebody, but do you have any interpretations of dawoodle of your own, or are they word-for-word with insomnia's?In post 261, dsjstr wrote:Spoiler:
That's my reasoning and I'm not telling you this in order to get you to change your vote. If you think I am scum still than vote for me that is your choice and only your choice to make.
Dsjstr ALSO said in post #229 that "[he] still believe that Luca is town even though [he] just said [he doesn't] trust SE's". Very strange to say the least, given that Blatant Scum is the only other SE.In post 292, insomnia wrote:The only thing I didn’t like about djstr is that he said he doesn’t trust SE’s but he’s following the lead of an SE right now, as well as his reasoning. But he did mention he town reads me, despite knowing I’m an SE.
This is definitely just a difference in mafia philosophies, so I will politely have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, one player CANNOT be the judge, the jury, and the executioner. Not you, and definitely not me either. If this were the case, the whole game would be dictated by a decuple voter who instantly lynches on the spot. This is how I see things in this regard:In post 296, IMASPY wrote:\In post 258, Poyzin wrote:Who are you to be the judge, jury, and executioner? I’m sorry that I don’t have all of the relevant quotes, but you asked dsjstr to defend himself, and then after he does, you decide it isn’t sufficient so you revote. Why would you unvote if you only planned on putting your vote back into dsjstr? I know that you could easily say “I wouldn’t have put my vote back I liked his defense” but that clearly isn’t the case based on this quote. Your vote isn’t worth more than any of the other players, and I’m sure that you didn’t need to unvote to make your point. You really just wanted to leverage your voting power, which as I stated doesn’t account for much.In post 227, IMASPY wrote:So dsjstr i will give you one more chance to defend yourself. Why are you still voting for dawoodle after you voted him to get information out of him? What has dawoodle done or said to convince you he is mafia?
I am all three in this game.... that is exactly what this game is... all townies are all three of those things. I have already replied to this post, but I was looking through poyzins post and i forgot to make this point the first time.
Actually, it WOULD be hard for Luca to gain the most townie points. Luca was your second highest scumread at the time you originally posted that list, so it would seem that you had some conviction to put him there. This is clear when you talk about your confidence in your dsjstr scumread, which has been unwavering to put it in different words. You even say that it is easy for players near the bottom to move up, yet that doesn't seem to be the case for dsjstr, who you are committed to lynching. To finish the thought, it would be easiest for null reads to shift around, as you wouldn't have much conviction about their placement.In post 311, IMASPY wrote:Luca has gained the most townie rep from me since that post but we was second from the bottom so it wasnt hard for him to move up in my rankings.
I realized that I never finished this philosophy, even though I suggested it with the "Town:" Here is how this scenario would look like for the mafia.In post 321, Poyzin wrote:Town:
Each player is a judge. It is up to them to view a holistic interpretation of the game and create their own opinions over who they believe to be scum. They judge the information available in the topic, and make a decision that is solely theirs. People can influence this opinion, but they have the opportunity to vote for whoever they choose.
The town as a whole is the jury. While the information is available to the judges to postulate over, the judges in turn make posts of their own, where they advocate for their beliefs. These posts are read by everyone in the town, as the mass of the town makes up the jury. They discuss possibilities with other players and work together to come up with a "rough" consensus determined by majority vote, even if the minority of the jury adamantly disagrees. While the individuals create their own opinions, the whole town makes a final judicial system to send to the executioner.
For this scenario, the executioner is just the mod. They are the only source of truth in the game, as there is a guaranteed guilty party among the jurors. It is only the flips revealed by the mod that can truly determine whether the jury had made the correct decision.
I don’t need to quote the whole post. Still, you should be more confident about your read of people who had posted more, such as Luca, compared to somebody who has not been making many posts, such as myself. Therefore, Luca would have the hardest time getting out of his position, which is why it’s suspicious when you paint the opposite picture once you decide that you want to lynch dsjstr. You may have felt that reading your mislynch partner as scum would hinder your ability to mislynch dsjstr. So, you decide to townread Luca so that the two of you could feel better about your decision on dsjstr, which was your goal the whole time. Of course this scenario depends solely on dsjstr being town, which I’m still not confident in. If dsjstr is indeed scum, then I’ll admit my defeat and say that you probably are town. However, I’m feeling worse about your slot than I do about dsjstr’s slot, for the reasons that I previously stated that I believe you are trying to undermine town’s attempts at coming to an appropriate solution by deliberately misinterpreting dsjstr’s messages; when they tried to provide themselves with a defense, it wasn’t good enough and your vote remained for one. I read your reasoning for inviting, but the unvote and the revote occurred in such a tight time interval that I don’t even think you considered both mafioso swinging in and hammering, which would absolutely be the scummiest move to make and would not be ignored.In post 328, IMASPY wrote:What you left out of this quote.In post 322, Poyzin wrote:Actually, it WOULD be hard for Luca to gain the most townie points. Luca was your second highest scumread at the time you originally posted that list, so it would seem that you had some conviction to put him there. This is clear when you talk about your confidence in your dsjstr scumread, which has been unwavering to put it in different words. You even say that it is easy for players near the bottom to move up, yet that doesn't seem to be the case for dsjstr, who you are committed to lynching. To finish the thought, it would be easiest for null reads to shift around, as you wouldn't have much conviction about their placement.In post 311, IMASPY wrote:Luca has gained the most townie rep from me since that post but we was second from the bottom so it wasnt hard for him to move up in my rankings.
Once again, I'm just postulating, but I'm pretty sure Luca moved up only because you agreed on dsjstr "definitely" being scum. While I agree that this is a good possibility, as I do heavily sus dsjstr, I am even more suspicious of you because of your use of underhanded tactics to push the scum!Dsjstr envelope that I have previously described. I have high confidence that at least one of the two of you are scum. If you are scum, I'd say dsjstr is cleared. (And vice versa for that matter, because I can't picture any scenario where the two of you are mafioso based on both of your demonstrated convictions throughout the last few pages).
VOTE: IMASPY
Don't say that I'm defending dsjstr; I'm not. I'm just trying to find flaws in the argument for dsjstr. There is a large difference, as the former implies that he's a townread for me; he's not.
"Poyzin has gone lower on my list since this post, however, at the time nor he, luca, or blatant scum had posted enough townie content for me to even consider them as town."
you luca and BS were in three way tie for 2nd to last as i said in that very same post you just clipped from. When three people are tied and two of those 3 people have the least post i would say the person that posted the most out of the three has the best chance to gain townie points. Along with the best chance to let off a scum read. just so happens i read luca as a town.
I believe that Billy is probably town. I think they had good townie posts when they initially arrived in the thread. However, this is not a passionate lynch, as I have not looked into a case for them as much as I have for my scumleans. Overall, I’m of the mindset that Billy is null-town.In post 369, insomnia wrote:Poyzin, while you're here, thoughts on Billy and Dawoodle? What about Blatant?
I may have repeated myself here, but I wanted to explicitly state that BS is lurking; I don’t agree with those antics, but there isn’t anything that can be done about it as far as I am aware.In post 370, Poyzin wrote:Nothing that they have said is particularly scummy, but there is no real reason to believe that they are town. It’s hard for lurkers such as Blatant to be read as town, but they aren’t necessarily scum for doing so.
I’m not a fan of your take of “You need to let your emotions get the better of you in the thread.” While tone certainly makes it easier to read somebody as town, I don’t think this is good advice. In my opinion, logic IS good. The thing about the mafia is that, because they are the mafia, there MUST be something fundamentally wrong with their argument. While townies may have incorrect logic sometimes, the mafia must be wrong ALL the time (unless they are bussing). With that being said, letting your emotions take control can be potentially dangerous. People who tunnel on somebody have let their emotions take control of them. I would rather have somebody talk sense into them then remain in their emotional state. So while you do have a point that scum tend to be more methodical than town, logical townies are more beneficial for me than emotional townies. In addendum, methodical townies aren’t necessarily bad either; their just harder to discern from scum, which makes the game more challenging, while the methodical townies are still helping town.insomnia wrote:Towniness is less thinking about what you post and just react on things.
Scum are methodical in their approach, they can't fake emotions. They think it's for dummies. Emotions are what distinguish town from scum most of the time.
You're just...WAYYYY too reasonable for a town here. I know this is getting old, but if I were a town here, I would've done everything to avoid my lynch. You're just sitting at 3 votes, not moving your vote, not actively getting people to vote your scum reads and on top of that, you just don't care for getting lynched, which is almost never townie.
You just are way too methodical. You need to let your emotions get the better of you in the thread. For example, if you see a post that really makes you ask yourself questions, react to it, be like "Why in the actual heck (pg friendly) did you even post this? What's the point of this?"
You often asked me "Aren't you agreeing with me?". I do, and that's the thing. You make way too much sense and are way too reasonable for me to think you're town. You're way too objective. It's like you're calculating every move, which is inherently scummy. Townies react more, scum are calculating in their minds more. Hope it makes sense and you take something out of this.
Dawoodle is right about many things here; for one, voting for Billy while a replacement being searched for is really not a smart decision. Dawoodle also realizes the hypocrisy of their vote on BS, who has not been posting for an even longer period of time. Scum would not acknowledge their own behavior that could be seen as scummy; on the contrary, dawoodle makes their voting contradiction available for everyone to see.dawoodle wrote:First, I am enjoying this game. And the fact that it's a game is part of the reason I am generally calm in my responses. Honestly, I'm not exactly sure how town is supposed to be, but I think I am gaining some valuable insights from being painted as scum so early.
I still think Billy is scum, and once a replacement is found, I will likely put my vote on them. However, I do not feel comfortable voting for someone who is out on replacement. (I realize this is slightly hypocritical with my vote for Blatant and his lack of activity, but my vote was placed during RVS before he disappeared. I will reevaluate that if he is sent out for replacement too or if enough other people pile on that I think there might be an early lynch.) Having said that, I think that my observations and opinions will be taken more seriously when I flip green because townieness is linchpin of my argument and I don't know how to demonstrate that without dying.
I am perfectly fine with dawoodle sticking with his natural play style. It also demonstrates his ability to not be influenced by other players, even if they are generally regarded as town.dawoodle wrote:That makes sense and I will work on incorporating it in the future. Having said that, I'm going to do the scummy thing and not change my play style here because then I look scummy for trying to act like I was told to. I'm afraid that sounds too logical, but I'm doing it anyway.
Having said that, I'm still waiting on one or two pieces of evidence to make my case stronger. When I get that, I'll post who I think scum are before EoD instead of after the vote like I said.
Done.In post 393, lucca261 wrote:always beware of the players who are really active in RVS and disappear when there's more interesting content.
also, would like a readslist, poy
That should be Emperor, my apologies. I forgot that they replaced in because their entrance lacked substance.In post 418, Poyzin wrote:Billy
It’s not bad. Basically everybody needs a re-review when night ends.
Please stop saying I defended you. I did nothing of the sort. You were that low; I was just highly skeptical of Ima’s line of questioning that I was confident that there was a mafiosi between one of you.In post 708, dsjstr wrote:Poyzin you listed me low on your read list, I had asked if you thought I was that low when you defended me, I'd still like an answer. Think Insom didn't like my post because I figured out his plan
I was indeed prodded. I also made two tiny posts at the beginning of this day. Could you elaborate with what this could mean about my alignment?In post 786, IMASPY wrote:More meta theory inc. Poyzin was prodded and never responded in thread. Make assumptions with that as you will.
To elaborate, changing reads is fine; when people post more content, it can cause opinions that players once had to shift and think that somebody is more town or more scum. The problem is, I didn’t even say anything! I don’t have a problem with people being suspicious of me, as that is part of the game, but how can I become scumread by basically everybody without making a single post in the meantime? Maybe there is a logical reason, but I just am skeptical of everybody’s change of heart, as it seems like scum taking advantage over an inactive townie.In post 817, Poyzin wrote:I am very skeptical about the pile on votes to the point where I am now at L-1. It seems that people have been forcing themselves to see me as scum,
Full 180? Please don’t misconstrue my posts. I said I was more fine with Ima now; they moved out of the null-scum and are now in an easy null. I just realized that my tunnel on D1 probably was not warranted as much as I thought it was, due to Ima’s attitude towards my vote on them, as well as their overall change in demeanor from what I can tell towards dsjstr, even if dsjstr is still considered scum to Ima.In post 822, insomnia wrote:Why did you make a full 180 on spy?
The quotes posts was me saying that the act of me getting prodded is non sequitur and doesn’t put me in either alignment.In post 837, insomnia wrote:That's a loaded question that doesn't help poyzin serve towards figuring spy, it just helps him look good in the process. Because there's no way there's an explanation behind spy's perception of an angle shoot. It was tied to his belief that Poyzin was scum, it doesn't constitute a reason for scum reading him, necessarily.
I accused me of not posting, which is equally as valid.In post 837, insomnia wrote:Nobody accused you of not posting, except for spy.
I never once said re-evaluation was a thing. I was just confused about how I turned into public enemy number one without making any posts to defend myself from accusations.In post 837, insomnia wrote:Why does someone need to have more posts in order for other people to have a justified meaning for switching their read on someone? Re-evaluation is a thing. Nobody really had a stance on you, to be honest. You just felt like you were town read because the attention was off. I bet that nobody even mentioned you. Yesterday, I said that if flips is gonna flip green, we should evaluate in you - ds - dawoodle. Which is exactly what I've done, BECAUSE I was not paying attention to you and cleared you early on and then never considered you.
What more needs to be addressed? On Day 1, I was not a fan of Ima’s play, as their questioning looked like something that scum would use to pin a townie as being scum, which wouldn’t give dsjstr any outs. I like the content that Luca was posting, but I felt sick about a dsjstr lynch based on Ima. So, I thought that Ima and dsjstr were potentially a scumteam, and Ima was attempting to bus dsjstr early on to get town points. However, at the end of the day when dsjstr WASN’T the lynch, I decided that maybe Ima was just tunneling on dsjstr temporarily out of passion, so I realized that I would need to take a step back from Ima as well because I, too, was tunneling. Ima is not townie cleared for me yet, but I realized that I was actually the hypocrite for staying on Ima for tunneling.In post 837, insomnia wrote:I think you should address the thing that you're actually getting scum read for, which is how you handled the spy slot.
You see, I don’t believe these to be exact opposites, and I will tell you why. For all tenses and purposes, let’s consider dsjstr and Ima to be a scum team. Now, if a wagon starts to form on dsjstr, which it did, Ima would naturally take advantage of it and create a line of questioning towards dsjstr to show that Ima is town and dsjstr is scum, when they would both hypothetically be scum here. I was just suspicious of Ima from this, because the questions were definitely loaded as far as I recall, and even when dsjstr defended himself, Ima wouldn’t let go of his scum read on dsjstr because the whole point of the questioning was to make Ima look townie by scumreading his mafia partner. Does this make any sense?In post 846, insomnia wrote:Apart from the bolded being exact opposites
Definitely not, and this is a giant leap from what I have said. I was saying that because Ima withdrew from the tunnel that I decided to assume good faith from Ima, because I was initially skeptical of Ima’s intentions.In post 848, insomnia wrote:Hold on, you're saying that just because dsjstr wasn't lynched, the possibility of imaspy bussing is discredited???
In post 786, IMASPY wrote:More meta theory inc. Poyzin was prodded and never responded in thread. Make assumptions with that as you will.
I don’t want to make ANYBODY look bad. Why are you attempting to villainize me based on false interpretations? I was confused why Ima would ask for people to make assumptions about me being prodded, so made a post asking why it matters. Then, YOU make a post about “why does it matter why it matters?” Why would you try to flip the bill that I’m scum when you literally did the same thing? That question helps me sort just as much as your question helps you sort! Please, I ask of you to stop your hypocrisy for the sole reason of justifying your narrative that I’m scum. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: I’m fine with you being suspicious of me. But when you try to spin the script by accusing me of being scum through the use of the same type of questioning that you first labeled as scummy, I do take issue with this, and leads me to believe that you may have malicious intent behind your posts.insomnia wrote:Exactly my point, you just make him look bad, and make yourself look good in the process. How does that question help you sort spy there?In post 839, Poyzin wrote:The quotes posts was me saying that the act of me getting prodded is non sequitur and doesn’t put me in either alignment.In post 837, insomnia wrote:That's a loaded question that doesn't help poyzin serve towards figuring spy, it just helps him look good in the process. Because there's no way there's an explanation behind spy's perception of an angle shoot. It was tied to his belief that Poyzin was scum, it doesn't constitute a reason for scum reading him, necessarily.
Defense? Literally what defense?In post 959, IMASPY wrote:I am claiming that he is defending his partner. His post is claiming he is not defending his partner.
This entire post is conjecture, and not at all what I intendedIn post 929, insomnia wrote:Spy, that push literally doesn't mean anything to a scum him. If the team is him and TSE, he doesn't even need an agenda, he has to push somewhere for some reason while we focus our attention elsewhere. He literally has to hide, but hide by actually posting, unlike Blatant. If you get what I mean.
Usually, a scum player would be on wagons and stuff, participate, engage in the thread, etc etc, and the other would split push. Unless, a scum player is already gone for the whole day phase, at which point, there is NO POINT in engaging the hot topics of the thread. He's not scared because he can't spew anyone if his partner is afk.
He just lets town eat each other off (which we have ; me - dawoodle , me - billy, dsjstr - you , iconeum - luca) and he's hidden.
A wagon would typically have at least one scum, but in this scenario, POYZIN HAS THE PERFECT SETUP FOR NOT BEING ON THE WAGON. It's logical.
And, riddle me this...If he's scum and he had to fake his push on you (which he did) and be out of the spotlight (which he was), what do you think he does the very next day?
Exactly this :
This, is what we call in mafia, distancing. He's distancing from you with that post. Basically says "I town read the guy, but if I was ever pushed to defend this read / be forced to push someone, this would be the slot"In post 686, Poyzin wrote:In my hiatus, I had time to look over some game stuffs, but I will stay brief. Insomnia is still my highest town read.I’m less inclined to believe that Ima is scum, but they haven’t done anything that looks particularity good, and all of their content could reasonably be faked.
Because he already pushed you. He lit the flames. He made his content for Day 1. But this? This is where he lets town eat each other off and looks for someone else.