Newbie 2031 - The Wild Hunt (End!)

[Egix96]

Hello. My name is Satisfaction and I am town-aligned. Good luck and have fun.

Nah. I'll take "things real townies don't say at the start of a game" for five hundred, Alex.

VOTE: Satisfaction

[Egix96]

VOTE: ArthurConyl It feels like you were fishing for support and then quickly backed down. Why post #35 and #37 at all if you are, as you said, 1) not suspicious and 2) giving me the benefit of the doubt?

Egix96, I'd like to hear what you think about what I am seeing as a backpedal by Arthur.

The thing is that, in 35/37, Arthur is stating in more direct terms what I was already implying. I do think, however, that if he were scum backpedalling, he wouldn't have just changed course because of a couple of posts by Noraa.

[Egix96]

P.S. Why do you want to hear from Egix?

I’m happy to answer that, but I’d like to hear from Egix first if you don’t mind.

Hmf. I mean I'm happy to wait for Egix to answer, but why do you need him to answer before you can answer? A wee bit odd.

I wanted to wait because I don't think Egix actually finds my intro to be scummy. I was waiting to see if he would say that himself. I thought he was scumhunting. After his response, I feel less confident in that assessment.

The least that I can say is that I would've just chosen someone else to rvs-vote, had I not thought so.

Hooold up there,

@Not Known 15.

You've probably just done the scummiest thing yet in this game. Please explain why I shouldn't transfer my vote to you. You put Satisfaction at E-1 and not even a reason? You're practically begging to be scumread.

Oh, I am an idiot for not counting votes.
Regardless, I sheeped the quoted section. Please also remember what I said earlier:

Hello. My name is Satisfaction and I am town-aligned. Good luck and have fun.

@Clark I just finished reading Space. Tough break. Is there anything you wish you would have done differently in that game?

VOTE: Bluebell For Feryland!

That sounds a bit robotic/awkward to me. This is Satisfaction's first game, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Does sound like it could be a noob scum, I'd be suspicious if it wasn't his first game.

Mundivore, what are your thoughts on this?

Totally NAI. I don't think a person who would say 'I am town aligned' in their first post as scum

wouldn't

say it if they were town.

Personally, I find this post is more AI to Arthur than it is Satisfaction. Maybe feels like fishing for an easy wagon. Very weak though. Measuring scummieness versus townieness on a scale from -100 to 100, I'd say I currently put Arthur at -2.

It is a bit awkward, but it is not a good idea to wagon someone who exhibits this behaviour unless you catch other scummy behaviour.

So yes, Satisfaction is at E-1. Sorry.

Sigh, I was hoping you wouldn't be like this after last time.

[Egix96]

Please explain your reasoning for Arthur as scum.

Sure.

Poking at a behavior in RVS, as Arthur did in posts 35 and 37 is healthy because it moves the game forward. This is pro-town behavior.

In post 40, Arthur backs down completely as soon as his line of thinking is questioned. To me, this reads like noob!scum backing away at the slightest hint of pressure. It's not super AI but worth a look in combination with the rest of Arthur's behavior.

Posts 73 and 78 are totally OMGUS.

(Post 86 was disappointing because I felt like he learned the wrong lesson there.)

I also wasn't a huge fan of #93. NK15 literally quoted Arthur's post as reasoning for their vote and then Arthur jumps on this. This is weird jumpy behavior.

I'm going to address this post because it outlines the reasons people are scumreading me.
Post 40: You said that I backed away from pressure. I never found Satisfaction's post to be AI. I was saying that his first post had an odd tone to it. I never expected it to be in any way scum-indicative, simply deserving attention. So backing away from pressure? Nah, I was just agreeing with Noraa.

Post 93: I genuinely felt that this post was odd. NK15 had barely posted and his 3rd or 4th post was to vote for Satisfaction, who I'd already given sound reasons for scumreading. I saw it as very unnecessary pressure - he didn't add anything to the discussion, he just voted and put him at E-1.

Post 86: I stand by what I've learnt from my last two games. Look at them, the town nitpicked minor stuff I did and ended up lynching me. This game seems no different. The most of this town hasn't even contributed as much as I, but I'm the one getting scumread for it. Next game I plan to lie low and at least survive D1.

@Last sentence: How do you expect to improve as a player with that attitude? Deliberately posting less is not an answer to the problem.

[Egix96]

Sigh, I was hoping you wouldn't be like this after last time.

Want to fill everyone else in on what happened last time?

In Newbie 2005, I thought that NK15 was scum for a large part of the game. 96 is not exactly a good look because I was hoping he could be a bit more responsible since then.

[Egix96]

Okay! We can agree on that last part at least.

--

I feel like it's hard to read Egix when he doesn't post very often. I know that this NAI because this is pretty typical behavior from Egix. Egix, can you explain your playstyle a little bit? You and I haven't played together before.

The thing is that I'm usually not very good at coming up with stuff on the spot, so most stuff that I say is in response to other stuff that catches my attention. So, in a word, passive.
As a result, it usually takes a while for me to really get into a game.

[Egix96]

That NK15 didn't respond to criticism and unvote is a very good sign to me.

I can see how it's good for someone to stick to their guns, but how is not responding a good thing?

107: Yuck.

What's the problem with that post?

Also, I think it was pro-town that when I hopped on the Arthur wagon with them, they pushed me to explain my reasoning.

Sorry, but I'm with Arthur on this one - why would someone question a read that they agree with? If anything, it's LAMIST (look at me, I'm so town).

Actually I do like this post. I would read you town for it. But it feels like you're trying hard to say everything and nothing at the same time.

I'm willing to give that readslist the benefit of the doubt since we don't have many pages so far, but generally the lack of meatiness (for want of a better term) would be a red flag since it's something I would associate with scum making a reads dump because that's what town would do, but limiting how much they commit to so as not to give away who the partner is.

[Egix96]

I think there's at least a 25% chance that both the scum are in this current wagon. It came together really quickly and in my experience scum doesn't usually like to hammer.

Further, I think that in the world that both scum are already on the wagon, it's probably Egix and Arthur about 45% of the time versus Egix and Not Known about 40% of the time.

Some scum-team analysis: I think that Satisfaction/Not Known is an impossible scum team. If one is scum, the other is town. I think that Arthur and Not Known are a very unlikely scum team: Not Known is in the SE slot and probably wouldn't sheep their scumbuddy so readily.

I think Arthur is a scum as for who the buddy is, I'm not sure

I think scum!Arthur is pretty likely. Put some pressure on with me?

VOTE: ArthurConyl

Looking back at this, I'm a bit surprised you didn't vote me, considering what you wrote. What would you have done, had Noraa not said anything?

[Egix96]

Also, I think it was pro-town that when I hopped on the Arthur wagon with them, they pushed me to explain my reasoning.

Sorry, but I'm with Arthur on this one - why would someone question a read that they agree with? If anything, it's LAMIST (look at me, I'm so town).

I'm going to go on a tangent with this one, but I distinguish towny/scummy vs pro-town/anti-town. I think that

a) scum can act in a pro-town way

and that

b) town can act in an anti-town way.

But when I look at everything together in combination, that's how I create my reads.

This one action by Mundivore in isolation? It isn't alignment-indicative. However, it's pro-town. Mundivore pushing me to better explain my FoS is good for the town.

This one action by Mundivore is only part of my read. But I definitely stand by saying that that single action was pro-town.

The difference is that a) is usually on purpose whereas b) is usually not. I'm saying that sometimes it can help to think about

why

someone is doing what they're doing.

[Egix96]

No response to 188, Mundi?

[Egix96]

why would someone question a read that they agree with

This is the second time in the game you've had a stance that doesn't seem genuine to me. I can think of what.... at least 3 answers to this question right now. It's hard for me to believe that you cannot.

Say 'em then, because I don't believe that you believe this.

@ Bottom of 193: Funny how you didn't mention any of that sooner. Are you not aware that trying to pass off a scummy opening as a reaction test is one of the oldest tricks in the scum book?

[Egix96]

Ftr I'm not convinced Arthur is scum.

[Egix96]

Say 'em then, because I don't believe that you believe this.

• When you are wary that scum may be hitching to your wagon.
• When you are trying to pull content out of a lurker who is sheeping but not talking.
• When you are not very confident in your read and you want another perspective to help you work through it.
• When you are trying to get folks on the record so you can revisit later to try to understand their objectives.

Just off the top of my head. There's probably some overlap between those.

Thanks. This is actually really helpful, as the impression that I had was that you were accusing me of lying over a simple difference of opinion.

Funny how you didn't mention any of that sooner.

Oh you said the bottom part:

Just for the record, I'm old. Back in my day people were plenty formal on the internet. I also work in tech where people are similarly formal all day, on the internet. All of that said, my intro was purposefully stilted. You and Egix chomped down on it hard.

I felt no need to defend something that what.... seven of the nine players in the game found to be NAI? Also, how I type is something that becomes obvious as the game goes on. If I'm scum because I type in full sentences and claimed my alignment on page one, you need to reevaluate your process. We have 10 pages of content to work with now.

I asked Arthur to talk more and go on offense. He did. I realized that a town!Arthur actually might not understand where I was coming from in my 71 and that scum!Arthur wouldn't invite me to draw attention to his flip-flopping behavior, so I gave him as much as I could in response to clear the air.

I think you can see how I play. I'm investigating. Trying to draw out interesting conversations. I haven't figured out how you play yet. Is your intent to get this post out of me? What does that do for you? You grabbed onto my intro post and pulled us out of RVS. Great work. You created good content by pulling Arthur along with you. Awesome. What are you doing now?

Scum!you has to see that I'm not getting eliminated today. So what are the possible motivations?

• Cast doubt because I'm an obvious NK target and you're planning to not kill me and raise eyebrows D2.
• Waste my time because I'd rather be talking to Not Known (the first person to throw down a real scum accusation in the game) or Bluebell (the frivolous fae flitting in only when flagged) right now.
• Otherwise derail the thread and stall progress.

Town!you only recently stopped lurking. I would like it if Town!you would be a little more straightforward if you are holding on to some big corkboard mastermind vision of the game in your head. Town!us need to kiss and make up.

"If I'm scum because I type in full sentences and claimed my alignment on page one, you need to reevaluate your process."

There was actually a bit more nuance to it than that. E.g. people usually don't say that they're "aligned" with town.

"I think you can see how I play. I'm investigating. Trying to draw out interesting conversations."

Perhaps so, but even in Newbie queue, there sometimes are scums who can fake this approach convincingly.

"[You have] to see that I'm not getting eliminated today."

I don't see how that's true though.

[Egix96]

VOTE: shelly this is actually just shelly's scumgame again

I call omgus.

were my walls and walls of quotes and catch up not townie enough?

No, because you don't seem to be reading things in context, which is resulting in a lot of misconstruances.

[Egix96]

@Clark I just finished reading Space. Tough break. Is there anything you wish you would have done differently in that game?

i liked the way he started a dialogue here and like, actually followed through on it.
it didn't really go anywhere because sati and clarky are both polite bois but it felt like he was prodding for something.

Personally, I find this post is more AI to Arthur than it is Satisfaction. Maybe feels like fishing for an easy wagon. Very weak though. Measuring scummieness versus townieness on a scale from -100 to 100, I'd say I currently put Arthur at -2.

Mundivore, does it make you feel any particular way about Egix96? If so, more or less of an indication than from Arthur?

i liked this; i thought mundi's post was pretty good but egix is indeed kinda invisible atp

VOTE: ArthurConyl It feels like you were fishing for support and then quickly backed down. Why post #35 and #37 at all if you are, as you said, 1) not suspicious and 2) giving me the benefit of the doubt?

Egix96, I'd like to hear what you think about what I am seeing as a backpedal by Arthur.

i vibe w this; i know people like reacted to you earlier but i think sati elaborated on it in a way which needed to happen

P.S. Why do you want to hear from Egix?

I’m happy to answer that, but I’d like to hear from Egix first if you don’t mind.

Hmf. I mean I'm happy to wait for Egix to answer, but why do you need him to answer before you can answer? A wee bit odd.

I wanted to wait because I don't think Egix actually finds my intro to be scummy. I was waiting to see if he would say that himself. I thought he was scumhunting. After his response, I feel less confident in that assessment.

i think this comes from a critical mindset which is reading egix's posts and trying to glean something from them. at rand this mindset is town (solving alignments) before it's scum (trying to parse whether egix is pocketable).

he's ignored my reasoning

I didn't ignore it, I just think you might be lying.

@art i was also kinda indifferent on your reasoning, sorry.

Hooold up there,

@Not Known 15.

You've probably just done the scummiest thing yet in this game. Please explain why I shouldn't transfer my vote to you. You put Satisfaction at E-1 and not even a reason? You're practically begging to be scumread.

Interesting. So E-1 is significant, but not enough to unvote?

this was the one which made me go "oomph!"
to rephrase in ~worstisms~ what i /think/ he's saying, you accidentally applied a double standard to NK15:
- putting satisfaction to e-1 was bad because NK15 didn't explain it
- satisfaction actually being at e-1 is fine, otherwise you would have thought to shift your vote

so is your motivation to work out why NK15 put sati at e-1 (and ergo, what his alignment could be?) - or is your motivation to make NK15 look bad for putting sati at e-1 (and ergo, attempt to set him up for the elim?)

On the off chance that a wild hammer slips in and I don't get the chance to share, here are all of my notes as of right now:

this post is fine and not really ai but i enjoyed that he has several reads but i actually tend towards agreeing with them.

his read on noraa was good. i'd call my pred towny, but she's quite sociable. buddying anxiety feels fine. his reads on red & you are quite good, and his read on nk15 is imo very good. there's a kind of soft discomfort with his reads (e.g. his strongest townread afaict is "town or smart scum") which i think comes from newbtown paranoia before newbscum clumsily trying to keep miselim doors open.

VOTE: Bluebell How’s that next poem coming along?

given he still doesn't townread you but you're smack in the middle of the spotlight: this isn't a vote scum!sati needs to make if you're town. i think it's a vote made because he wants to sort blueb.

why would someone question a read that they agree with

This is the second time in the game you've had a stance that doesn't seem genuine to me. I can think of what.... at least 3 answers to this question right now. It's hard for me to believe that you cannot.

i like this.

Let's go.

i think he believes this read. when analysing sati's alignment, whether he's right or wrong is largely immaterial: you can get into his head better if you read it kinda like, uuuhh. here's an example of some stuff that sometimes jumps into my mind when i see people talk about their reads.

Spoiler: lovely diagram

using the "high conviction scumread" column for a moment i... don't think scum!sati needs to dunk on you while also voting for bluebell and i think the general tonality of the case feels more like he feels like he's "caught" you which i tend to associate with a sincere/uninformed aka. town-aligned mindset

Both of the 2 wagons have successfully produced content. She is the darkest blind spot.

@Bluebell who is scum. who is town.

pressing nullreads for more content is cool and good.

Sry for not commenting on this sooner, but here goes:

2: I presume you mean "at THAT point" when you say atp because I'm sure you realise that it wouldn't be unusual if you still couldn't "see" me now.

4: I'm willing to admit that you might have a good point here - scum would probably have just taken my opening more literally.

8 (and final): I'm not seeing how anyone couldn't have done this.

9: Why did you like it? I felt the opposite way.

[Egix96]

uh you're transparently posturing a scumteam a couple of hours after replacing in.
this is me being at work and figuring there's little value in discrediting you when people are going to see what you're doing.

lolreadslists Generate Content and Discussion and I like that.

of course nothing's set in stone, I like adjusting reads a lot

egix i am not trying to intentionally misrep anything

Did I say you were doing it on purpose?

[Egix96]

8 (and final): I'm not seeing how anyone couldn't have done this.

sure, that's fair. allow that it's attributable to either alignment - on the balance of things how do you feel about the rest of what I'm seeing?

9: Why did you like it? I felt the opposite way.

re. pressuring nullreads? be scumreads Arthur; Arthur is already in the spotlight. I don't feel like he has much of a read on blue, who isn't feeling the pressure of this game (her reads are developing slowly and with little nuance which means it's hard to read her alignment with clarity). with time I think sorting blue early is beneficial; I'm not sure scum doesn't just bank on her being a miselim later or just ignore her.

Apologies if I miscounted paragraphs, but:

8 = 190
9 = 191
final = 202 / 224

Ofc I don't find your Satis towncase to be convincing enough to make me go "oh snap I guess my first impression was just wrong" but in the back of my mind I'm thinking, what are the chances that {town/scum}!TW defends {town/scum}!Satis? So for Satis to be scum, then that either means that a) he's fooled you good, or b) you're his buddy who's defending him, and... I don't particularly feel that you're scum.

"with time I think sorting blue early is beneficial; I'm not sure scum doesn't just bank on her being a miselim later or just ignore her."

I mean, I... kinda? get? what? you? mean? You've pretty much hit the nail on the head with "[Bluebell's] reads are developing slowly and with little nuance which means it's hard to read her alignment with clarity" though.

[Egix96]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Not Known 15

I don't get how this guy has made only eight posts in six days, while receiving practically no flak for it.

[Egix96]

Idk maaannnn what did you think of nk15's scumcase on Sati? How did it vibe with your feelings? / Do you not think he believes it?

At the time, I thought it a good thing that he was voting with me, but tbh I didn't really pay much mind to 163 apart from that.

Looking at it now though...

Putting out your reads at E-1 is something you can expect from scum(but also from town). However, they have found too many things there. At this point, it is likely scum trying to find things to make comments about nearly everyone.

I can kinda agree with this. On the other hand, though...

What's worse is that all they have posting since leaving E-1 is posting fluff. Looks like scum being relieved from having been at E-1 and assuming their wagon breaks down.

I disagree, why would scum post fluff in that situation? If scum are let off E-1, they'll usually take it as a sign that they're no longer going to be yeeted, at least not for the time being. So I would think that they would resume posting actual content since they no longer have a reason to be in anti-spew mode.

[Egix96]

@the worst: I don't think shelly's crazy-aggressive, tunneling play is AI. I think that's just her playstyle, and we'll have to work around it. As things are, the slot feels null to me.

@shellyc: I don't know if I see the worst as scum here. He seems to be putting in pretty good effort to solve.

If you two just duke it out here, it's going to be hard to tell if it's TvT or not. So far it kind of just feels like a slapfight. There are definitely more interesting targets, IMO, and if you two just tunnel each other we could miss out on some dank analysis.

Idk, this whole section feels... off? Pockety? Middleman-ish? The usage of the word "dank" in particular gives it a very "hey fellow kids" sort of vibe.

[Egix96]

I feel ignored.

tbh this after mundivore's post is a bit LAMIST-y

it means that nk15 feels they are ignored because mundivore thinks me + worst are town

Yeah, it's not as if NK15 was directly involved in that interaction.
Still, even if NK feels that they deserve more attention in general, then why don't they... y'know, post more?

[Egix96]

I have been away for 2 days and wow, what a thread. Give me a moment and I'll analyse worst vs shelly. Personally, I feel like scum are laughing at town for descending into chaos ;/
UNVOTE: Going to start fresh, I haven't forgotten Satisfaction though.

Sorry to rush you, but the deadline's not far off, so if you had to vote someone ASAP, who would it be?

[Egix96]

mundivore can you explain further your read on satis as they're pretty townie

worsty isnt happening so VOTE: Arthur

bluebells I want a readslist asap

Your readslist missed what I wished to solicit.
But if you insist...

Mafia:
Arthur

Town:
Egix96
Satisfaction
Bluebell

Mystery Mafia Member:
Noraa/The Worst?
Clarkbar/Shelly?
Mundivore?
NotKnown15?
Redados?

Who do you think is most/least likely to be the mystery member? Even if it's just gut.

[Egix96]

last interesting observation before i go back to work: shelly has not attempted to have a read on NK15. i think NK15 has been like, uncharacteristically divisive and

easy to have a read on this game

. i'm not sure what this really means but it's a thing.

For you perhaps, but not for the rest of us.

[Egix96]

Ok Hot Take: I scumread Egix96 now.
81 is fence-sitting on Arthur’s Alignment
fluffposting until 186 which is mainly prodding people to give their thoughts + IIoA
235 hard defends arthur which is super weird especially if arthur is red
350 CLATS (confirmed lurker and therefore scum) vanity vote on lurker isnt giving any game advancing info?
357 is subtle shade at mundivore whos pretty town so far?

like overall i dont feel like this is a very protown iso and egix has been fallen under the radar
this makes me reconsider worsty tbh
arthur is still scum

81 - Tbf that was quite early in the game, and would you rather if I had created unnecessary bias by not stating both sides of the argument?

186 - I get it if you think that that last paragraph seemed IIoA-ish, but you can see how it was jusitifed by my first impression of Satis.

235 - Come on, you can hardly say that this is a hard defence. It's not like I'm saying, "ArthurConyl is town and here are 13 reasons why!"

350 - How is this not game-advancing? I'm sure there's at least one person who wouldn't have considered the problem I was addressing had I not brought it up.

357 - So what, you'd rather I had just kept that thought to myself? IF Mundi is scum, I'm sure you can imagine how unfortunate that could end up being further down the line, yes?

Also, seeing as you like to talk about your own playstyle a lot...

"egix has been fallen under the radar"

I usually am quite UTR on D1 of games, which is something you should have inferred from reading my posts since I did touch on the subject in an earlier post of mine.

I kinda TR egix as well

Also also, why did you say this before?

Look, if you're gonna write a case on me and bend the truth in an effort to make it have more clout, you could at least try and make it more believable.

[Egix96]

Egix, Bluebell you've both posted since I shared my scenario. May I have at least an initial impression of it, if not a detailed response? Specifically some kind of alternate explanation for the last part, the recent events surrounding the vote counting and (from my perspective) role hunting. Same question to Mundivore, Redados, etc. I need some town brainpower.

At this point I'm ready to see shelly swing. We are running out of daylight. If we have to do Arthur to push something through today, I will support that (based on my most recent explanation, primarily anti-town behavior).

I don't think I could fully comprehend the situation since all that happened while I was asleep, but honestly I can kinda buy that TW just made an honest mistake since he would have been distracted with work stuff?

Anyway yeah, I would rather vote shelly than Arthur, especially considering the disingenuity of her case on me. Don't wanna vote until I know the count tho.

[Egix96]

VOTE: shelly

I think that's

E-1

[Egix96]

Day 2 will be a feeding frenzy. GG.

VOTE: ArthurConyl

:/

[Egix96]

I don't even know where to start. Last night I starting thinking that it was interesting that more people weren't waving me off. Originally I was just disappointed and frustrated but now I'm wondering if there's anything to be gleaned from that information.

Overall feeling pretty discouraged.

What were you hoping would happen? Arthur flipping red?

[Egix96]

VOTE: the worst

Current preferred lim order is the worst = satisfaction > Redados.

Why are you voting tw? You seemed pretty confident that his slot was town in 398 .

VOTE: Mundivore

[Egix96]

Oh my.
I am sincerely sorry Arthur. I have no excuses. It was a mistake.
And Shelly? My suspicions have led me seriously astray.

You need to give us more info than that. Who do you think is town now? Who do you think is scum?
VOTE: Bluebell

I don't know. I'm starting over at square one, but with my reads for scum switched. Sigh. Was Shelly assassinated because of her stated suspicions? Or does a jailkeeper just get jettisoned as a proactive scum tactic?

Redados,
you have been very measured in your approach in the past,
So why did you throw this vote in for me so fast?

Personally I think it was just a free PR kill, in which case the accuracy of her reads has no relevance to whether she dies or not.

[Egix96]

it occurred to me as well but i still think he reads sincere, just like, mind mendingly confbiased. if he doesn't have any other reads his alignment will get really obvious when one/both of us flip, assuming we're t/t.

hmmmmm

like it occured to me that scum can just stfu and nightkill me theres no need to shade me

yeeeah

I don't get why you're voting Satis, given this. Am I misunderstanding something?

[Egix96]

is there a reason why you aren't more surprised I turned around after towncasing him at some length earlier in the phase?

Ofc yes that's relevant too, but I figured that would be implicit.

[Egix96]

I was specifically checking what the latest thing you had said about him was.

[Egix96]

is there a reason why you aren't more surprised I turned around after towncasing him at some length earlier in the phase?

Ofc yes that's relevant too, but I figured that would be implicit.

Please explain what is implicit and why, as if this is my initial Mafia game online. Cause it is.

What I mean is that I didn't feel like it needed to be restated that TW had towncased Satis before.

[Egix96]

we could elim blue. [...] she could easily be mafia. but i'm not going to pretend it wouldn't be a policy elim because of the very-slow pace at which she plays the game.

Ehhh. If I had to ding on her for one thing, it would be that she seems a bit too self-aware in 519 ("I'm a naive newbie.") but on the whole I'm feeling kinda sympathetic because the way she's playing reminds me of my own playstyle, in a way. (i.e. she mainly focuses on stuff that addresses her directly.)

you're asking rewarding probing questions, and your avi is cute, so i'm like thinking you're probably town again i guess. idk.

(This was referring to Mundi)

I'm not really seeing it. I voted Mundi because their vote on you seemed like scum trying to capitalise on shelly's town flip. There's still the whole "pockety middleman dank analysis" thing I mentioned a while back, but more recently we have this:

mundivore can you explain further your read on satis as they're pretty townie

worsty isnt happening so VOTE: Arthur

bluebells I want a readslist asap

I think Satisfaction is probably town, but I think NK15 had good points with their initial scumcase against him—I find it particularly frustrating the way Satisfaction started acting like conftown the second he got off of E-1. Main reason I'd go for a Satisfaction elim is that it's an information dense elim... there was a lot of interesting interaction in that early Satisfaction wagon, and getting to see his role card would tell us a lot about the alignments of other people.

It bugs me that Mundi would have yeeted Satis for "information" despite acknowledging that there were actual reasons to suspect him. It feels kinda agendary in conjunction with the hedging on Satis.

Not exactly a slam dunk, but tbf no one really seems like "obvious scum" at this point.

===

In other news, I'm getting town feels from the first paragraph of 734 - it really seems like the perspective of new!town coming to the realisation that, a lot of the time, you (non-personal) are going to end up wrongly pushing people, and that's something I wouldn't expect new!scum to know how that feels. (I mean, I was there too once, in my earliest town Newbie games.)

[Egix96]

how are you viewing redados this phase?

He's in my blindspot. By which I mean, I don't think he's done much that moves the needle for me.

[Egix96]

Can I get town games and scum games from these people? I want to do some reading.
-Mundivore
-the worst
-Egix
-Not Known 15

Okay, I can do this now that I'm on my comp.

2015
2005
1977
1975
1956

^ My five most recent games in this queue. '77 and '56 were scum games, rest were town.

Twice Baked Wrestling (Large Theme, scum)
Mini 2127: Fairly Special (town)
Mini Normal 2130 (town)

^ A few from other queues.

[Egix96]

Egix I have a question for you:

who's scum?

Mundi is my best guess. Other one is in {NK15, you, Blueb} but that's mostly PoE.

[Egix96]

I'd also be willing to closely look at a case on Mundivore. I feel like I have had them in my town pool from the very beginning of the game and that momentum may be helping them slide through.

Any thoughts on mine, in 742 ?

===

I'm willing to hammer here.

[Egix96]

NK15/Mundi Multi-ISO

p#11, 23 - I don't feel like both scum stack their votes here. Tbf, this is with the caveat that this was in RVS.

Further, I think that in the world that both scum are already on the wagon, it's probably Egix and Arthur about 45% of the time versus Egix and Not Known about 40% of the time.

Some scum-team analysis: I think that Satisfaction/Not Known is an impossible scum team. If one is scum, the other is town. I think that Arthur and Not Known are a very unlikely scum team: Not Known is in the SE slot and probably wouldn't sheep their scumbuddy so readily.

See below:

Just did a light re-read, with a focus on Red. I can only find one thing he's done that seems scummy.

My current favorite scumpairs are Satisfaction/Redados or NK15/Arthur.

What happened here?

p#192 - "So, for instance, I'm pretty comfortable saying that Satisfaction can't be scumteam with you or Not Known, and also that Not Known probably can't be scumteam with you (the probable in this case referring to the situation where Not Known legitimately missed your vote even when you were both scum... but I rate that at low odds)." I missed this at first because it's buried in a monster wallpost. "You" = Arthur. I get that Mundi was suspecting Arthur and they stated they were "low-key scumreading" NK15 in p#225, but I don't get why they then put those two as a possible team given they still thought it was a "probably can't be" team.

Er, more like one-and-a-half. Sorry Red.

I think the bigger takeaway of my re-read is that I'm most interested in elimming one of Arthur and Satisfaction today. They've had the most interesting interactions with other players, and there's an interesting scumcase on each of them.

What exactly is "interesting" supposed to mean here, in either instance? This reasoning doesn't sit well with me, especially considering that Arthur/Satis were t/t.

p#741, 753, 754 - Admittedly there's some mild not-s/s equity here.

p#798 - "For what it's worth, I'm town-lean on NK15. Their main behavior this game has been tunneling Satisfaction, and tunneling is usually a town behavior." - Reasoning here is a little bit questionable - the act of tunnelling is NAI in itself - you have to consider whether it looks like it's coming from a genuine place or not.

After this point is where NK15 fakeclaimed, and since NK was back at E-1 (and hence almost assuredly dying) by the time Mundi had returned, I don't think that much can be gleaned alignment-wise from the remainder of Mundi's posts.

Tentative conclusion: I still think that Mundi has a decent chance of being scum. I still have to do this for the rest of you all though.

[Egix96]

Hm. I wonder why that was a Satisfaction NK, instead of me or the worst.

I don't get why you would think you would die.

But yes, it is skeeving me out a little bit that the scum would kill the less experienced player first between Satis and tw, considering that I would say they were both the same level of spewed clear.

[Egix96]

NK15 w/ Redados

p#12 - Eh, maybe scrap the stacking votes thing I mentioned. This guy voted Clark too.

p#44 - "Hey, props to the guy being honest about his alignment in his first post!" I'm willing to admit this might be a stretch/overthinking it, but how does he know Satis was being honest? :thonk:

p#129 - NK15 is slap bang in the middle of the null pile. Normally this would be ringing alarm bells for me, but since NK15 had only made 5 posts at that point it seems unfair to expect them to be placed anywhere else.

p#185 - The response to NK15 here is... not the most helpful, though I do get very minor town vibes (or more specifically, not-s/s vibes) from the restatement of "I think that Satisfaction is town."

p#271 - This is where I'm starting to see the apparent "resting pocket tone" that Mundi mentioned - only five posts prior, funnily enough.

p#461 - Slight +town for this.

p#610 - NK15 is a townlean here, which I find surprising considering that Red hadn't really said much about them afaict.

p#744 - Looking forward to seeing what progress he's made here.

Tentative conclusion: Prrrobably not scum with NK15? It's not easy to tell.

[Egix96]

Hm. I wonder why that was a Satisfaction NK, instead of me or the worst.

I don't get why you would think you would die.

But yes, it is skeeving me out a little bit that the scum would kill the less experienced player first between Satis and tw, considering that I would say they were both the same level of spewed clear.

"Spewed clear"?

Cleared as town from interactions with NK15. That's what it means.

[Egix96]

Spoiler: Bluebell stuff

NK15 w/ Bluebell

584 - "Projectile producer placed to my principle pondering part [...] NotKnown15 to me, towards town" - some possible partner equity here. Floating an Arthur/shelly team feels unoriginal/safe move for scum.

707 - Voting with NK15 on Satis wagon. Reasoning is given in p#706 which, looking at it again now that Satis has flipped, seems a bit like tinfoiling in a scummy way (i.e. actively favouring possibilities over probabilities)

852 - Oddly, Bluebell is not mentioned here.
^Actually looking at the context I see why now - it's talking about who shelly would have been unlikely to jailkeep, based on her stated reads.

So yeah, I could see Bluebell being scum, but there's very little associative-wise between her and NK15 (afaict, NK doesn't mention her at all) and I feel like this maybe happens to be a case of things just so happening to fit. Not Confirmed, just Plausible.

Re: recent posts: Mundi's stance seems fairly reasonable, whereas Bluebell feels more desperate.

[Egix96]

Does scum!Bluebell nightkill Satisfaction?

I presume you mean to imply that she would have killed tw instead? I mean, I can imagine NK15 advising her on who to kill before they died.

NAI though. VT can totally get mad if they think they're getting targeted, they're the only person they know for sure is town.

To try and put it another way, the impression that it gave me was that she felt like her survival was imperative.

[Egix96]

For the record, I am not flinching and would be more interested in Egix and Redados explaining WHY they aren't declaring intent.

Because I'm feeling patient and would rather have let her speak before committing to that.

Why would scum!me spring out of the Satisfaction set, p#735, but then NK him?

I don't see how this is meant to prove anything
Like... if the game doesn't end with you dying, then I would rather see you write a legacy post (laying your final thoughts out, basically) rather than focusing on defending yourself.

[Egix96]

We have less than 72 hours left. If anyone isn't comfortable with reliably checking in closer to deadline, I'm happy to unvote so that they can vote and I can hammer.

I should still be around at my usual times, just ftr.

[Egix96]

I'll have a go at rereading later, but currently I'm thinking Mundi is the scum.

[Egix96]

-Mundivore hammered NK15-Towncred, but they specifically say that the intent to hammer is to get a kill and that they would be willing to switch to the worst if people are around. That gets rid of the oomph.

I don't think that the hammer warrants any towncred given the context. It seemed like an elim on NK15 was inevitable by that point.

I mean, if we're going strictly by votes, I'd say the best argument to my favor was that I convinced Satisfaction to join the Not Known wagon.

At first I had no idea what you were talking about here, but I eventually found it buried in the posts after NK15 claimed. (p.36) I'll need to think about this part more when I get to it in my proper reread.

NK15 claims in response to Egix saying that he's willing to hammer. NK then hard-accuses the worst in response to his asking for him to claim—but the worst is asking for a claim before a hammer, which is... standard? And he didn't have control over the prospective hammer. Egix did. Egix was the person who had the real power to force a claim, but NK accuses the worst instead. Why not the person with the actual power to force a claim?

I can only speculate, but I think that NK15 was hard-set on pushing Satis + TW and simply hadn't had the idea of sussing me for making him claim.

Not Known strikes me as very by-the-books low-activity opportunistic scum, not the sort to take gambits. NK15 has pressured you (Red). NK15 has accused both you and me of being scum. If you agree with my character read of NK15 (which tbh isn't very strong, so you don't have to), then that exonerates both of us.

I don't know about the "by the books" part, but I would say that being low-activity and opportunistic fits with my prior experiences with NK15.
Although NK did argue with each of you at separate times, I wouldn't say that he outright accused either of you.
But really this seems to me like you're making a move to try and pocket Reda.

[Egix96]

Egix, why didn't you hammer or vote on NK15? You declared intent to hammer and then did not post for the rest of the day.

I was waiting for Mundi to come back first, but I had fallen asleep by the time they had posted.

[Egix96]

Egix forced Shelly to claim

Nnnot quite. I did vote shelly up to E-1, but she wasn't forced to claim because no one declared intent to hammer. Her claim was premature.

[Egix96]

Spoiler:

Full-game reread - 22/10

p#12 (Reda) - I'm presuming that this one was a meme post... would scum really be this overt?

p#14 - Yeah it's just a meme, prob not worth reading into.

p#23 (NK15) - Noting that they choose not to chainsaw-defend Mundi by voting Noraa.

p#52 (Mundi) - This post kinda misses the point imo, looking at it again - the pressing matter was more about how Satis phrased his post rather than the essence of what he wrote. I would say it's kinda scummy to not have a good sense of the tone there?

p#87 (Reda) - Some pro-town advice that doesn't just feel like it's being given for the sake of it.

p#99 (Mundi) - Focus on NK15 pings as possibly partner-indicative.

p#103 - Slight scum vibes from tone here.

p#129 (Reda) - "It sucks to have so many null reads because that's not super helpful. But I want my thoughts out there regardless." - Minor town vibes from this part.

p#144 - Liking this also - the reasoning seems like it would have been sufficiently valid had Arthur been scum. i.e. it doesn't seem like it was BS'ed up.

p#149 - I don't really get the impression that Reda was "sheeping mundivore" as Noraa put it.

p#179 - Even though this post was written by Arthur, I'm earmarking it for the Mundi read.

p#192 (Mundi) - Monster wallpost! This one is mainly a series of responses to Clark/Arthur, though there is a lot of theory talk that makes the whole thing seem bloated.

p#199 (Reda) - I don't agree that 192 was towny. This feels like a "big posts, must be town" sort of read.

===

23/10

p#219 (Reda) - This seems a little bit waffly. I don't get why he doesn't just SR her, given what he stated he didn't like from her. It's not like he named anything he found towny from her.

p#225 (Mundi) - "Could you elaborate some more on Not Known? I'm low-key scumreading them right now and I'm not sure how much of it is because of #163 contrasting with my townread on Satisfaction." - Possibly a minor point in Mundi's favour, but it's not strong.

p#266 - Minor town vibes.

p#268 - See p#894 for my note on this.

p#271 (Reda) - Normally I would suspect this post for having an awkward tone, but like... this is supposed to just be normal for him... right? The fact that it's Mundi who mentioned that is... yeah.

[Egix96]

I simply don't see how it could be anyone other than Egix from this position. If this is Red, then I think you earned it. But I'm all in, and I'm out of lines.

VOTE: Egix96

I was hoping you wouldn't do that while I was asleep... I was starting to get there on Redados, too.

[Egix96]

the worst - well played and sorry that I didn't read the games that you spent time putting together. I was terrified of you. We will definitely play together again soon.

Mundivore - it is always a pleasure to play with you. Being universally scumread in limlo is never fun regardless of alignment and you did a good job keeping up a good attitude.

Bluebell - sorry there was no one else to really scumread - you were limbait! I hope that you can hop into more games and write more poems!

Satisfaction - you played a fantastic first game, I can't wait to see your play continue! You also scared me a lot

ArthurConyl - you have really, really bad luck in terms of being mislimmed in the early game. I hope that you are able to stick with it. I meant what I said in post 87.

Egix96 - I did read some of your games, you are a very good player. You have what Mundivore called "convergent play" where your town and scum games look very similar. That's super scary. I'm warming up to your playstyle!

shellyc - I wish you hadn't claimed. While you were claiming I was going for a run and planning my defense of you. I would have gotten so much towncred. Oh well.

Not Known 15 - I'm sorry that I wasn't a better scum partner! I definitely feel like we did our own things and butted heads a little bit. That ended up being useful in terms of distancing with what happened, but maybe it didn't need to go that way. Hopefully we can roll scum together again in the future. Thanks for your guidance in the Mafia PT!

Btw, thanks!