Newbie 1741 - Game Over

[Papa Zito]

VOTE: xalxe

For misspelling THE NAME OF THE FREAKING GAME.

rabble



vote tags are [ vote ]someone[/ vote ] without the spaces

[Papa Zito]

VOTE: Titus

All too easy. Time to find the partner.

[Papa Zito]

BTW @newbies


Scroll all the way to the bottom VV and click on "Add to Bookmarks"

Bookmark link is always the top-right corner. ez way to find the game again.

[Papa Zito]

^ does not compute

more Titus votes plz

[Papa Zito]

so why are you insinuating I am?

I'm doing nothing of the sort.

My honor is impugned. This is an outrage. I will not stand for this.

I'll see you in court.

[Papa Zito]

You're obviously doing something any full emotion reading skilled player would get.

I don't know what this means.


I will say we are no longer in RVS as my vote is 100% legit and I'm super happy to see additional Titus votes.

Ya'll can thank me later.

[Papa Zito]

Ok you can have credit. I'm sure it'll be a major source of comfort up on the gallows. :3

[Papa Zito]

I am so helping rn.

Generate discussion? Check.
Scumhunt? Check.
Pushing wagon? Check.

I'm the towniest town the ever towned and you know it, that's why you aren't even accusing me of anything.

You could be like

"ayy this zito guy's pushing bs on me vote: zito"
or
"ayy let's dissect or hell even question this zito guy what's pushing a wagon and got me to L-2 on page 2"

but nah you're just like
"this is fine" #firedog

[Papa Zito]

I need to stop talking tho, this is newbie game not zito game.

[Papa Zito]

I have no idea what you're doing

QUESTION FOR THE AUDIENCE


I have accused Titus of being The Accursed Scum.
I have pushed for more votes on Titus.
I haven't really revealed

why

I feel so strongly about this.
Titus also hasn't really asked despite not knowing wtf I'm doing.


What do YOU think about this state of affairs?

[Papa Zito]

Naw that's an observation. An invitation is like,

September 19, 2016
1741 Scumclub Ln
Mislynchville, TN


Dear Zito,

U r dabes. I follow all your games. You perform miracles on a daily basis. Clearly I have Done Something Wrong here. Will you please:

[ ] illuminate my transgressions
[ ] grace us with your bountiful knowledge
[ ] go out w/ me


<3,

Titus


P.S. All invitations must include a PS for some reason.

ayy area tags I need to use you more

[Papa Zito]

UNVOTE: Titus cuz I never know what newbies will do

My vote is still there in spirit tho.

PSA: I'm not explaining anything until everyone chimes in and stuff.

[Papa Zito]

algebra is the other SE slot, Titus.

[Papa Zito]

I don't really believe that the vote was random. I voted for titus because I interpreted her post as first acknowledging that nn30's question about new lynches was just a newbie question, and then voting for nn30 as if nn30 legitimately wanted to push a no lynch. It just struck me as odd.

Oh you. I like you.

This is precisely what earned my vote. There's were some screwball mental gymnastics involved with that post and I'd love to hear Titus explain wtf was going on in her headmeat when she made it.

[Papa Zito]

Self preservation?

what?

[Papa Zito]

Self preservation?

what?

Seriously, did you not put together that newbie scum might suggest no lynch because they fear getting lynched?

Shaddowez already answered this but no, it never crossed my mind that someone would fear getting lynched on page freaking 2.

Can you explain how "fear of getting lynched" is specific to newb scum only and not something that'd afflict newb town?

[Papa Zito]

It could be either. I voted to start the sorting process. I wanted to figure out whether the fear was town or scum motivated. The best way to do that was to increase the pressure he feels.

Can you show me where you attempted to do this sorting?

[Papa Zito]

No no no no no.

You stated the purpose of that vote was to "start the sorting process." The sorting process would "figure out whether the fear was town or scum motivated."

I'm asking you to show us the sorting process you're referring to.

[Papa Zito]

There's a link to the acronyms we use in the 2nd post, Dunhallym.

[Papa Zito]

Meta is dumb. Don't do meta kids it only leads you to bad places.

Oh man thank you for reminding me about this subject whew.

[Papa Zito]

Realizing I failed to upload an avatar... Hold on...

Oh I thought you were being sassy, now I'm disappointed.

[Papa Zito]

@Papa Zito is there a way to delete posts? Maybe nobody else has seen it yet.

Can't delete or edit posts, no. Being able to edit history would make these games unplayable.

[Papa Zito]

Ok Zito is probably town.

Just need two more town to powerblock through this.

Is this appeasement or what

I actually do want my question answered.

[Papa Zito]

idc if you're annoyed, I'm not getting what I want. I asked about your process. You said the word "process" I used the word "process" at no point did I ever dig at you about "questions". Where is your process. How does it work. Show me what it was supposed to be doing. You "increased the fear level" gr8 but how the hell does that sort anybody. Is this thing on? ¿Estoy hablando Inglés?

[Papa Zito]

Like this shouldn't be so hard. I'm literally trying to get at what your motivation was on that vote cuz what was posted in-game made 0 sense. It's super easy to understand what I'm trying to get at here and thus (AND THUS) should be super easy to just provide what I'm looking for and move on. Why am I having to drag this shit over multiple pages?

[Papa Zito]

I play a lot of games with a guy in real life. Lets call him Kyle (not his real name). He teaches everyone the game, leads the discussion the whole time, and then everyone votes him out of the game because he's also the most experienced (e.g. able to trick us).

BTW if this is your criteria your vote should be on me.

fear my join date

lol

[Papa Zito]

So here's where my thoughts are right now. Please chime in if you agree / disagree.

How can you have 0 read on me? I'm the loudest thing here.

It's because you are not listening that's so frustrating.

I am listening. If I listened any harder my head would implode. Do you want me to have an imploded head.

I guess the part I'm

still having trouble with

is that a naked vote with 0 interaction doesn't really do much to ramp up pressure so I'm just completely at a loss to how you expected to achieve your intended result. I mean is this an ego thing? Do you think Random Newbie is gonna be so scared that they were voted by The Great and Mighty Titus that they'll just wet the bed and spill the goods?

No probs. I think meta can be useful if you are conscious of its/your limitations. And I know a few people that use it very effectively.
As you are tunneling on Titus for a point that is minor to me, and because algebra seems to be the same, I was wondering if this point was particulalrly bad because it is Titus.
Do you have other reads to share?

Yeah a lot of people claim meta helps them and more power to them I guess but in my experience it's trash and should be avoided at all costs. I'm not gonna make a big stink about this cuz it's not game relevant but if people wanna chat about it after that'd be fine. Re: Titus she has a rep but idgaf what she's done or said in other games, my only concern is what she says and does here. So when she posts moonbeams nonsense like this:

Great, so according to your own words, we're far out of RVS but you're still joking around?

Also, given your behavior towards my push, my reply details the fact you are phased. That's pretty true. Stop trying to be bigman on campus if you're town. Stop joking around. A joke is ok, but retracting a vote based on its a joke doesn't make any sense. You seem to be doing whatever it is that gets people to like you. Well guess what I like odd balls.

... I mean how am I supposed to ignore this. When did THOU SHALT NOT HAVE FUN become one of the Mafia commandments. It's a game ffs.

I have other reads yes. I don't want to share them atm tho. Don't make the mistake that a zillion other people have and decide that since I'm going hard after one particular player I'm ignoring everything else. zzz

[Papa Zito]

@Titus: Dunny mentioned I'm tunneling you.

@papa zito - no read because you're talking so much it blurs everything.

well

Primarily I've been digging at Titus this whole time. Look at the questions I'm asking and observations I'm making. Do you think those further a scum agenda or a town one? Why?


The nice thing about the forum game is you can always go back and review things. I'll point you to the "Iso" feature - scroll to the bottom of the page, below the quick reply box, and you'll see "Display posts by user: "


If you select my name and push Go the page will refresh with just my posts. Even better you can push the [+] button next to it:


Now you can see our full back-and-forth. Neat!

[Papa Zito]

@Papa Zito How do you feel about nn30 now? Similarly to how I feel, or is he one of your reads you don't wish to share? (131)

I wouldn't mind seeing him swing at this point. However there's a slot that's yet to chime in with much so I'm in a bit of a holding pattern waiting for that to happen. We've got plenty of time and while I certainly don't advocate using all of it just for the sake of using all of it (that's a fantastic way to kill games) I also don't wanna hit night with a giant unknown in ecane.

Also I feel like at this point I need to do some isodives because this game is surprisingly dense.

[Papa Zito]

Hey guys, I'm typically not around on weekends, gonna catch up over lunch today. I didn't think that'd be a problem with a newbie game but holy crap you guys are nuts.

We've got about 6 days left so we'll want to come to a consensus fairly soon. Gotta deal with them claims yaknow.

[Papa Zito]

Wendy's french fries pretty good ya'll.

[Papa Zito]

Welp. That didn't help as much as I'd hoped it would.

I am no longer interested in lynching nn30 though, I think those voters are on the wrong track. Grundy and Big Poof strike me as bros. Algebra's a mess and I see why he's getting flak but I'm super unsure about what he's doing or why. Tweet needs to post more - Don't Let Your Dreams Be Dreams. Shadow's lack of presence continues to be a major concern. I want to throw Titus through a window regardless of her alignment.

I think that's about where I'm at.


Time to start Doing Stuff I guess I'll start here.

@algebra:

Who would you say are your top 3 scumspects? I don't need reasons just a list is cool.

[Papa Zito]

I'm also generally V/LA on weekends - the last time I posted was Saturday night, which was actually more recent than yours prior to you today. Why is it okay for you to be away, but not me?

I said presence. AKA you're not doing anything.

I also have double your posts. :3

[Papa Zito]

You

could

but my point would still stand.

Your approach here is interesting because instead of either taking what I said to heart (and my meaning there is clear let's not play games) and actually doing something you instead try to cast it back at me and paint me as hypocritical. This is pretty classic "avoid the argument; attack the attacker" strategy.

[Papa Zito]

You're doing a good job trying to muddy some very clear waters. Let's try this again.

My comment has nothing to do with postcounts or time spent V/LA. My comment was about presence. Which I further clarified as "you're not doing anything." Because you're not. I did ISO dives on everyone in the game and in yours I see a player sitting on the sidelines taking the occasional potshot but not really getting his hands dirty.

As for your second post - I agree that asking you questions or commenting on individual posts would be a way to engage you sure. Looks like I chose not to do that!

[Papa Zito]

Guys

I forgot to tell you about something extremely important

Today is FACE Day. Happy FACE Day everyone!



FACE

[Papa Zito]

Yeah I actually agree with Titus.

Which might mean I'm officially clinically insane I dunno.

VOTE: shaddowez

[Papa Zito]

@Dunny:

I didn't forget you

1. WARNING: PLAYSTYLE/THEORY NONSENSE AHEAD WOOP WOOP WOOP. I believe information control, as either faction, is a key to winning mafia games. There are times when giving my opinion on a player may be more detrimental than helpful. For example, let's say I'm super suspicious of King Grundy, for whatever reason - gut, a "tell", whatever. I may not want to jump up and down and immediately announce this suspicion for several reasons. Perhaps another player is already grilling King Grundy about something, maybe even something completely unrelated - by not interrupting that process, I get to watch

both

players' interactions and thus possibly gain valuable insight into both. Maybe nobody is paying any attention to His Royal Highness at all, in which case maybe he's feeling quite comfortable - and is more liable to slip. Maybe my read is more based on emotion which is something I can't really back up well enough or I feel isn't really worth discussing. Maybe the game state is such that if I'm being Loud and Proud I'll be drowning out other voices. There's all kinds of possibilities.

The unspoken followup question is of course "why did you express those reads now?" A few reasons: 1. I felt the conversation had died down a bit and hoped it would spark things again; 2. I'd formed a bit more of a cohesive view of the game and felt better about how I was reading things; and 3. I strongly suspect I'll be NKd tonight so it's better to have that out in the thread now.

2. Honestly most of those reads went from nulls to

something

, mostly due to lack of posting. At the time I preferred being somewhat dark and mysterious anyway in hopes that made our scum team nervous. My read on nn30 was the big one really, he flipped for a few reasons which I'm not super inclined to discuss at this point.

[Papa Zito]

Papa idk if I'm in some weird work headspace but that theory post made me have an epiphany, thanks fam.

Ok this is probably the first time I've ever given someone an epiphany about anything so this game is now officially Best Game thanks everyone for playing.

PSA to all the partner/buddy chatter:

There's a parable about the guy who built his house on sand vs the guy who built his house on rock ya'll may want to peruse.


Algebra I miss you. I never thought I'd say that about math but here we are.

[Papa Zito]

Zito what are your thoughts on lynching algebra?

Well my vote's not there, that's one indicator.

I mostly want him to come make with the words. There's a lot of questions out there for him that demand the words.

If you're talking compromise votes I don't think we're that desperate for time yet.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito

I see your POV, and I admit that I sometimes lie or hide things I think as town. there is just one issue IMO: as town your job is not only to find scum but also to do your best to show you're town.

I don't really agree with you here but I don't think arguing about this will help anyone determine alignments since it's (again) all playstyle nonsense.

But the attitude you describe is also easier to play as scum, which is why I said it would start to bother me on the long run.

If you're a surface player it probably would sure. If you're looking at motivations and really ferretting out what I'm doing then it shouldn't.

I forgot to ask but what do you mean by arona and Empoof as "bros"?

I think they're town.

[Papa Zito]

We're at less than 4 days left ladies and gents. I know that sounds like an eternity to people used to 20 minute days or whatever but around here it's time to start consolidating.

[Papa Zito]

So Titus said she'd have to consider me, but hasn't actually voted me yet. To me, that means she's still trying to decide if I'm scum or not, not that she definitely thinks I'm scum. How does agreeing with her 251 necessarily equate to a vote?

She articulated something I was already thinking. Time is also a factor.

I don't understand the point behind this though. Are you saying I have to wait for Titus to vote you before I can agree with something she says and vote you myself?

What currently makes you think empoof is town?

What's the purpose behind this question?

Other than me, who do you think is scum?

I've already answered this.

[Papa Zito]

algebra got off the hook rather easily.

Lurking can unfortunately be an effective strategy to relieve pressure. Plz do not employ said strategy cuz it kills games and we're all here to have fun yeah?

Regardless, the amount of Algebra chatter hasn't really died down so at best this is a commuted sentence.

[Papa Zito]

Well no which is why I was addressing our resident anthropomorphic bit of social media.

[Papa Zito]

Guys pls post ilu

[Papa Zito]

I know we're not a 10 person game. I was presenting a scenario in which a day one no lynch holds some merit. Hence - irrelevant aside.


If we were to play a 10 person game, I wouldn't even bring up a no lynch until maybe the last 2 days. That way we played as if we were going to lynch and gained information already. In a 10 person game - assuming lynches never land on scum - a no lynch day one scenario comes with the same number of town lynches as a day one lynch scenario.

Common wisdom around here is to always lynch Day 1 regardless of even/odd number of players. Reason being is Day 1 generates a ton of info with wagons and conversation which you'll lose if you decide to no lynch that day. The situation changes if the game reaches a "MyLo" state - MyLo standing for "mislynch and lose" - where the if the town mislynches they outright lose the game but if they nolynch then they narrow the list of possible scum due to the nightkill. Bear in mind there are some scenarios in which no-lynching during Mylo isn't recommended; for example, if one player is guaranteed 100% cleared town then all a nolynch would accomplish is that player getting killed and you having one less player you can work with, or if the town has a vigilante available, etc.

#theorynonsense

[Papa Zito]

I can't speak for everybody but when I do wagon analysis I tend to only look at wagons that hit L-1, wagons that had major competition (say two wagons at L-2), and the lynch wagon. The lynch wagon is where I tend to start. Without a Day 1 lynch wagon you lose quite a bit of info. Corollary: If the town is willing to drive someone to L-1 then clearly they're seen as a scummy player, why wouldn't you just lynch them then and there?

[Papa Zito]

I have a question for Shaddow voters: does your suspicion of Shaddow come mostly from Shaddow’s posts or to a potential connection with algebra? I think I already know Zito and Titus’s answer but please also answer.

I don't attempt to find partners until I have a flip. My vote is purely on Shadow's actions in the game.

[Papa Zito]

Catching up, but tbh I'm not a fan of the shadow wagon

That's a bold thing to say before you've caught up.

Even more bold when you're the alternative.

[Papa Zito]

FTR I don't have a problem with an algebra lynch.

But when your IC isn't even voting it's like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Papa Zito]

That is L minus 1. The next voter should claim intent to hammer, rather than voting. This tells Shaddowez to claim. It's standard across the site.

Titus, you know you're not IC and this isn't the first time you're doing IC-like things. Considering your statement in 287, it feels like you're doing it for town cred.

I'd take this more seriously if you were around more.


With a VT claim I'm perfectly happy sitting where I am. ALSO I'm loving the competing wagons you guys have no idea.

[Papa Zito]

You just made a ton of posts, what exactly do you want me to address?

[Papa Zito]

Let's start with this - What do you think of Titus' 345 as her recap of my post?

Ok here's her recap with numbers added for extreme convenience

I'm going to summarize his post.
1. Titus is wierd but I have no evidence.
2. I'm the easy target as the IC.
3. I'm not going to vote the counterwagon.
4. I am a VT.

1. I'm assuming this references your last paragraph where you say she's trying to mislynch you but you don't really back this statement up.
2. Yeah I dunno where this came from
3. This is perfectly fair. At the time you were STILL NOT VOTING.
4. Yeah?


So uh, please tell me what you've gained by this incredible analysis I just did.

[Papa Zito]

I'm confused. The last thing you said before your current batch of posts was:

I'm still hesitant based on this not being the town!Titus I'm used to, but not enough to have a vote there.

UNVOTE:

Why did this change? And if it changed due to her push (I'm anticipating here) then why oh why didn't you revote her? Even better - why did you take the vote off if you weren't going to vote someone else? I had no idea Titus was your #1 you've thrown me for a loop here congrats.

1. Titus driving your wagon or any wagon is not a scumtell good god. And I can't see your PM so to re-ask your question, what purpose does bringing that up serve? Also saying "I think Titus is scum" and not voting her kinda isn't backing up anything. Like I just said I had no idea you were scumreading her and you sure aren't making a consolidated case full of alignment tells and motivational analysis so uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
2. I

guess

you could call it a misrep? Titus could probably answer you better on this point (or all of them really since yaknow she made the post) but "the IC is an easy target" doesn't really mean anything anyway so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3. I'll reiterate that I found it scummy that you weren't voting, especially given where we are in the day.

Man this last sentence bothers me because it hints you know I'm town. To answer it tho, I'm looking at everyone.

[Papa Zito]

Well that's fair I suppose.

Can you put together a cohesive post that shows why Titus is scum. Not nitpicky anything but real "she said this here, this is more likely to be scum motivated than town motivated cuz

X

." 2 days is plenty of time to swing a wagon, if you're really passionate about this you can make it happen.


The newbies are quiet and it bugs the crap out of me.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito - On mobile. Just lost 30 minutes worth of reply to mafia scum telling me to login again. RIP. In the car - will chime in soon.

FWIW I was gonna bring up the unvote on Titus but didn't finish my post before class since phone formatting blows

kids these days and their damn phones I stg

[Papa Zito]

as;djkf;alsdfjldks

[Papa Zito]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooook that was a hammer

We're now in Twilight, which is the period of time between when someone gets lynched and the mod comes in and shuts the thread down. The length of this period depends entirely on how lazy the mod is. Fortunately rules explicitly say we can keep talking in twilight so we uh should.

that hammer sucked

I'm gonna be investigating things tonight with whatever shadow flips in mind.

uh

yeah

[Papa Zito]

I mean

Anyone hammering is info. And what it says about algebra somewhat depends on the flip. And doesn't change why people were suspicious of him to begin with.

@shadow

need some last words bud

[Papa Zito]

Catching up, but tbh I'm not a fan of the shadow wagon

All caught up, but going to be phone posting and mild v/la this weekend. Shadow looks scum with his defense and flail.VOTE: Shadow

These are algebra's last two posts.

Note that if/when algebra flips scum, Titus and nn30 are very likely not buddies.

If I'm dead tomorrow please push this slot.

[Papa Zito]

Empoof is my spirit animal

[Papa Zito]

Your argument is invalid, because I was catching up and there was a lot of content that I read between those two posts.

Ok, specifically what content made you go from "never mentioning shadow in this game ever" to "let's lynch this guy despite the fact he's actively discussing things."

[Papa Zito]

Your argument is invalid, because I was catching up and there was a lot of content that I read between those two posts.

Ok, specifically what content made you go from "never mentioning shadow in this game ever" to "let's lynch this guy despite the fact he's actively discussing things."

Your misrepresenting me, shadow was a scumlean in 318

Fine. Specifically what content made you go from a "townlean" to "let's lynch this guy despite the fact he's actively discussing things."

Shadow in what world do we not lynch algebra tomorrow

@Zito

- now this is a post that sounds like he knows what the flip is going to be. If Algebra or Titus flip town, look here

I agree with Empoof honestly :/

[Papa Zito]

I mean there's a reason I'm hunting the guy in twilight today.

ty xalxe for long ass twilights bless

[Papa Zito]

Hmm.

Reading.

[Papa Zito]

I liked the other one better.

[Papa Zito]

Papa thoughts on why you're still alive itg.

Yeah I did everything I could to get nked, I dunno why they didn't oblige.

I am still chewing on all this delicious info plz stand by.

[Papa Zito]

I'm purposefully staying quiet atm, I want to let the discussion develop naturally. I am reading everything tho dw.

[Papa Zito]

Can you explain to the class why that post is garbage?

[Papa Zito]

@Papa Zito - He explained that in his post already.

clearly I disagree

[Papa Zito]

oh man good luck padawan

[Papa Zito]

oh


ok well I'm not sure I see much in the way of suspicion there
coupled with the fact that basically nobody else was scumreading that slot to my knowledge so defensive NKing would be extremely unlikely

[Papa Zito]

No clue.

[Papa Zito]

I don't think I told anyone not to pay attention to anything? Could you quote this?

If you're referring to 460 that's one of those amazing leaps of moonlogic you're known for. I was wishing nn30 good luck there because he (?) was, in his (?) words, "getting my brain into the same space as your brain by using the words". I'm not sure this is possible for anyone.

[Papa Zito]

I need Empoof to get in here and flap at me some more.

[Papa Zito]

Again, where did I encourage him, or anyone, to ignore anyone, or anything. Carl Lewis is looking askance at you like "damn girl" rn.

[Papa Zito]

Guys this game isn't over yet I promise.

[Papa Zito]

My default vote would be algebra for reasons I'm sure we're all familiar with.

The combination flip/NK has me thinking I'm completely reading this game wrong however so I'm hoping I'll gain some insight by sitting back for a bit.

I'm pretty sure I already said this somewhere but it doesn't hurt to repeat it I guess.

[Papa Zito]

I don't recall complaining about anything?

You seem grumpy Titus maybe you should take a nap.

[Papa Zito]

I'm most interested in both of our absentees as well.

[Papa Zito]

can't wait to find out why

[Papa Zito]

That was a very interesting post. Let's put the original back up to make things easy for the crowd.

FTR I don't have a problem with an algebra lynch.

But when your IC isn't even voting it's like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[1]It's the only time you gave a willing read on the developed algebra wagon. [2]The way it's phrased it could easily be set up for your get-out-of-jail-free card if the shadow wagon didn't go anywhere. [3]If algebra is red, you and I should be considered the 2 most likely partners. [4]Adding that arona (and algebra pusher) died and not someone who was considered by all to be town is concerning.

1. And?
2. Why in the world would I need a "get-out-of-jail-free" card?
3. I've already stated my opinion on pre-flip associations so you'll have to forgive me if I completely ignore this.
4. There were multiple Algebra pushers, including myself (376, 383, 395, 396 for examples), during Day 1. Killing Arona doesn't lesson the pressure on Algebra - see today's early votes. So what's your point here?

[Papa Zito]

1-3) In that case I guess we don't have much to talk about. If algebra flips scum and I'm still around we can revisit. I'm very interested in continuing this conversation at that point.

For #4, I literally commented on that earlier so you should know my stance on the topic.

[Papa Zito]

@Papa Zito

What are your thoughts on Titus and Empoof?

That is the question isn't it, I'm glad you're paying attention.

I still have nagging doubts about Titus' early play and her push on me today is extremely weak. She nitpicked a couple of ridiculous things and then dropped it but left the vote which is ??? so I'm not feeling candy and rainbows about that slot. Meanwhile Empoof was a town read yesterday primarily due to tone. I was hoping I'd get more of an attack from him so I could put some meat to that read but unfortunately he's decided to deflect onto the algebra flip. What I will say is I very much don't like how he's attempting to argue that I was setting things up yesterday while he's doing the exact same thing by tying me to algebra today.

I’ve decided to channel my inner Zito and keep my own thoughts to myself until I get my answers.

I'd do the same in your spot!


If algebra doesn't make with the words soon I'd suggest we just hammer that and move on.

[Papa Zito]

I hope algebra's "couple more days" ends today.

[Papa Zito]

In addition scum killed a member of the shadow wagon, Arona, as if they wanted to make it even easier to lynch algebra today by leaving algebra voters alive.

This is an interesting idea. One issue with your theory is this:

Ok so if shaddowez flips town, I really don't see how algebra isn't going to be lynched tomorrow.

If the idea was to ensure an algebra mislynch today, why kill someone who looks like they're a very willing algebra voter?

[Papa Zito]

They had the choice of killing Empoof, Titus, Zito, or Arona (excluding the possible scum in that wagon) if that was part of or all of their motivation. IIRC everyone was okay with an algebra lynch today, not just Arona. The difference was that some wanted him lynched on day one, others were content with lynching shadow instead and letting algebra live on to day two.

Which goes back to how I believe algebra is the goat for today's lunch.

Goat for lunch sounds delicious.

I'm not following your logic though. Say more words.

[Papa Zito]

Prod received, still gonna be v/la for a couple more days though. Papa looks pretty bad rn

tick tock clarice

[Papa Zito]

VOTE: algebra

Post or perish.

[Papa Zito]

Because I am investigating if papa is scum. I would rather have investigation today.

You keep saying this but you're not actually doing anything.

@ Zito

In one of your posts from yesterday you spoke of mob analysis. We got 3 mobs that reached L-1 yesterday, not counting the lynch mob (Titus, nn30 and algebra), did you take a look at them ?

I'm assuming you mean wagon analysis here. We don't have enough flips yet to make that useful. example:

Vote Count 1.10
Find more ways to work ‘plinth’ into daily conversations.

shaddowez

(5): Papa Zito, Empoof,

aronagrundy

, Titus, algebra
algebra (4): nn30, Morning Tweet, Dunhallym,

shaddowez

Doesn't tell us much.

[Papa Zito]

I dunno what you're referring to.

Your vote isn't doing anything. It's not rallying anyone to your banner and I feel 0 pressure because of it. Therefore, zzz.

[Papa Zito]

Dun can I just say that regardless of your alignment you're a delight to have in the game.

@town

at this point it's pretty clear algebra has no intention of engaging with us or doing essentially anything. I would suggest at this point we stop killing the game with inactivity, kill the algebra with extreme activity instead, and move on.

[Papa Zito]

lol Titus

[Papa Zito]

gdi Dunny you're not supposed to talk about this stuff in the game thread.

Newbies I swear.

[Papa Zito]

We don't need to wait, no. We just need someone to hammer.

Reminder from the game rules:

A simple majority of all living players must agree on one person (via voting) for a Lynch to occur (simple majority = ½ # of living players +1, rounded down). If no one has a simple majority of votes at deadline a No Lynch will occur.

We don't want to no lynch here.

[Papa Zito]

Titus, why do you keep asking me stupid questions?

[Papa Zito]

well met


Now for the obligatory 5-day twilight phase

[Papa Zito]

lol algebra you troll somehow I love and hate you simultaneously

[Papa Zito]

Of course they'd take Dunny from me.

You're quite right Tweet.


I just got home from a weekend campout and I'm exhausted. I might put some work into this but no promises.

[Papa Zito]

Also I got it wrong, it was an obligatory 5 day night phase, not twilight, my bad.

[Papa Zito]

oh my god everything hurts

boy scouts are insane

I have reason to believe everyone here in intelligent, so the town PR would claim to be a PR. Either, it's a tracker with a clear or a BP who is confirmed clear.

@Prism - I think that the fact that your #1 scum read is LUV and that your #2 is Boring needs to be reconciled considering that Boring is pushing LUV as well.

and now I'm in the twilight zone

[Papa Zito]

Poof you spent a ton of energy yesterday talking about a Zito Crusade when algebra flipped red. Unfortunately by some reverse miracle he was green so can you talk about where your head is at now?

[Papa Zito]

Vote Count 1.5

Biologically speaking, we are all people made up of smaller people.

algebra

(3): Titus,

Dunhallym

, nn30
nn30 (3):

shaddowez

,

algebra

,

aronagrundy

aronagrundy

(1): Empoof

Not Voting

: Papa Zito, MorningTweet

Vote Count 1.10

Find more ways to work ‘plinth’ into daily conversations.

shaddowez

(5): Papa Zito, Empoof,

aronagrundy

, Titus,

algebra

algebra

(4): nn30, Morning Tweet,

Dunhallym

,

shaddowez

Not Voting

:

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

[Papa Zito]

Guys I need posts.


plz halp

[Papa Zito]

Right this second you and Titus are having pillowfights for my top scum read and Tweet is my top town read. But I still have a lot of reading to do and that could def change.

[Papa Zito]

Vote Count 1.5

Biologically speaking, we are all people made up of smaller people.

algebra

(3): Titus,

Dunhallym

, nn30
nn30 (3):

shaddowez

,

algebra

,

aronagrundy

aronagrundy

(1): Empoof

Not Voting

: Papa Zito, MorningTweet

I highlighted this particular vote count not just because it featured competing wagons but because one of those wagons was 100% flipped town. I still need to read the circumstances around this time period to draw any real conclusions. I also feel like the grundy kill is important and needs to be revisited. I did an iso already and still can't come up with much so maybe I'm missing something or maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree there, I dunno. It could've simply been purely because he wasn't really suspected by anyone but again reading required to see if my memory of that is true.

One issue I'm having is a lot of yesterday's posting was based on an algebra scumflip (Dunny's iso I did a bit ago reminded me of this) which isn't terribly useful.

[Papa Zito]

Titus is my top town read rn. What makes you scumread her?

Her pushes this game have been absolutely terrible. Her scumhunting is virtually nonexistent. She's opened today with complete nonsense. It's almost like she came into this game and made a bet with someone saying "let's see how much shitposting I can do before I get lynched."

I'm not prepared to sit here and make a point-by-point case if that's what you're asking.

[Papa Zito]

All of which makes me wonder how in the world she could be your top townread.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito - Her pushing is scumhunting though. You may not agree with the methods, or the outcomes, but she is scumhunting.

Can you show me this? And further explain why she's your "top" townread?

[Papa Zito]

Thanks for pointing out 495, there's a lot there so I'll look into that later. Do you have no concerns that the 3 pushes you mentioned there all happened Day 1 and all happened (from your perspective obv let's not play games) on townies?

Additionally I don't think scum would pretend to screw up the setup.

Now she's also an uncountered PR. This adds to my top townread status.

I'm not sure how your first bit points to alignment. I'd like you to think through the second again.

[Papa Zito]

Where's the upside? How does this play benefit a Scum!Titus? I see very little to gain from intentionally screwing up the setup.

Who said it was intentional? She came into the game thinking she was the IC so clearly she's off her meds. The

real

point here is she was attempting to paint herself as cleared.

@Papa Zito, why am I townread higher than Empoof? (as he's the second townie outside your scumpile)

I don't think I said I was townreading Empoof.

Perhaps this illuminates my major issue with this lylo better.

I can't find anything in your gameplay that really points to a scum agenda. I also can't find much that potentially links you to another player. The only nagging doubt I have is why you haven't really acted on your Day 2 posting despite the algebra flip. So if you are scum here then congrats please play more games.

[Papa Zito]

No I'm saying I essentially scumread all three and I'm desperately trying to sort them with all the various reading things I'm doing.

I'm referring to your NK analysis earlier in the day.

[Papa Zito]

Your night kill theory (and I'm doing this from memory after reading it yesterday) was they went after someone on the shaddowez wagon because they wanted to leave the algebra voters intact to promote the mislynch. Given the flip I'd assume this lent more credence to your theory but you seem to have forgotten completely about it OR I've lost my mind and I'm actually scrawling ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics on the walls of my padded cell right now in chocolate pudding.

(warning theory etc) Good town play is not limited to looking for scumspects but also seeking out other townies to work with. Some players even prioritize the latter over the former.

I haven't scumread you all game and you haven't really done anything to change that here so /shrug

[Papa Zito]

I mean, you did that as well on day one ("I'm the towniest town that ever towned!")

is this real life

What I was worried about is if Titus' claim is true, and Empoof + yourself are looking to start swaying me to help mislynch her. Paranoid? Yes. I don't want to be the townie that voted with mafia and lost us the game.

That's certainly possible and entirely fair.

I'm not actually trying to sway anyone to anything atm. I'm answering your questions cuz they deserve to be answered and I'm trying to get in nn30's head because his Titus read makes 0 sense outside the obvious.

Oh crap I have to read that post brb.

[Papa Zito]

Ok you went and made me make a big post I hope you're proud of yourself.

Here are some more examples of Titus scum hunting which reinforce my point.

Posts 15, 19, 23, 74, 76, 87, 123, 175 are all examples of Titus suspecting, voting, pushing or defending her suspicion of me.

Posts 59, 61 63, 67, 163, 168, 251, 290, 293, 431 same but Algebra.

Posts 268, 287, 328, 345, 357 same but Shadow.

If there was a scale from "stroking your beard, smoking a cigar, and saying 'hmm... interesting'" to "firing a blowhorn while pointing at your top suspect" Titus would be a champion of the latter.

Spoiler: Tvn

15 - This was not scumhunting, 15 is what earned my vote. You can't sit there and lecture someone (mental headspace=this person requires learning) and then vote for them for that very same thing in the same damn post.
19 - As I said in 20 does not compute given ^
23 - Simply bonkers false.
74 - I questioned this in 75 because makes 0 sense given the complete lack of pressure on you when that post was made + town PRs also have a self-preservation motive so it's a wash
76 - A continuation of the same nonsense
87 - Titus goes off the rails on this "sorting process" nonsense. The problem with this post is

she never attempts to sort you at all

.
123 - How is this scumhunting when she isn't attempting to ferret out motivations, she's just flat-out assigning them to you? In what universe is it required that your vote be on a particular player?
175 - A four word answer to a question. I don't see how this demonstrates scumhunting.

Spoiler: TvA

59 - this is a naked vote. So ok I guess.
61 - This is one of those classic deflections. 'I did a bad thing but someone else did too so it's ok'. Also she calls algebra a newbie when he's an SE which is ???
63 - Again, Titus is assigning motivation to someone, not seeking it out. 'X made a post. This means Y. I hath spoken.'
67 - This is a worthless post. "Arona, are you algebra's buddy?" doesn't do anything.
163 - I couldn't find what this referred to. Grundy's vote prior to this post was on you agreeing with shaddowez and algebra.
168 - I'm glad you pointed out this post because it completely flies in the face of 23. 169 grundy shows that her point against algebra is false.
251 - ...this is a defense to Shaddowez, not an attack on Algebra.
290 - This is a statement of intent to vote algebra the next day. This isn't scumhunting.
293 - same
431 - This is ok if you're into the whole looking for pairs before flips thing (and we've all learned this lesson this game haven't we).

Spoiler: TvS

268 - Another example of Titus assigning motivations to people instead of discovering them.
287 - Second verse, same as the first.
328 - How is this scumhunting at all?
345 - His post was bad yes. (they didn't get much better spoiler)
357 - Still moonbeams as far as I'm concerned.

I'm afraid I fail to see any real scumhunting here, nor do I see what's earned your top townread status.

[Papa Zito]

Alright I said I would read yesterday but I didn't. I've been staring at the Xalxe iso vote counts for a while today. Papa, where would you say your effective vote was during D1 algebra vs nn? I remember you saying it was on Titus early in the day, and then you FTRd algebra near the end of the day. I know this was a while ago but I'm trying to see where your thinking was during this time.

I think you'll have to be more specific on what time frame you want.

[Papa Zito]

@papa right before I joined the game (post ~159) to voting shadow. All of the algebra vs nn stuff. You had yourself not voting Titus because of L-1, but left it off for a long time after the wagon dissipated

Around the time you replaced in I felt I didn't really have a firm grasp of the game so I reread everything a couple times. I summarized the results of this in 242. After 242 I start engaging with Shaddowez and his responses were poor. Then I voted him in 260. That's not really a long time to me?

[Papa Zito]

If none of this is scumhunting, would you mind pointing me to examples which

are

scumhunting?

From Titus? I'm hard-pressed to find any.

So either Zito is actually town (I agree, unlikely)

Justify this read plz.

[Papa Zito]

That's to both of you, nn and Titus. You're both softballing my name, justify your reads.

[Papa Zito]

What do you mean by softballing?

Your teeheehee zito is scum routine is getting old.

Justify your read.

[Papa Zito]

I've already answered that question. Clearly you're not reading.

I don't see a justification anywhere. Make a case.

[Papa Zito]

No I'm saying I essentially scumread all three and I'm desperately trying to sort them with all the various reading things I'm doing.

Did that where? Links or quotes.

[Papa Zito]

No I'm saying I essentially scumread all three and I'm desperately trying to sort them with all the various reading things I'm doing.

Did that where? Links or quotes.

[Papa Zito]

[1]When scumhunting, we should be seeking resolution, right or wrong. [2]Being able to vote anyone at any time is a red flag just as much as buddying. [3]I am pretty sure Zito is scum using that standard but I want to find the other scum before I vote. The catch is there's good reason to doubt all of you as scum.

Papa respond to the above Titus post.

Ok.

1. Yes, sure.
2. I've already stated I don't have any desire to vote Tweet.
3. See 2

There's really no substance to that post.

Also give us an example of good scumhunting from someone from this game.

Sure. There's more to this sequence but look at this series of posts.

Spoiler: Scumhunting=yes

Self preservation?

what?

Seriously, did you not put together that newbie scum might suggest no lynch because they fear getting lynched?

Shaddowez already answered this but no, it never crossed my mind that someone would fear getting lynched on page freaking 2.

Can you explain how "fear of getting lynched" is specific to newb scum only and not something that'd afflict newb town?

It could be either. I voted to start the sorting process. I wanted to figure out whether the fear was town or scum motivated. The best way to do that was to increase the pressure he feels.

Can you show me where you attempted to do this sorting?

No no no no no.

You stated the purpose of that vote was to "start the sorting process." The sorting process would "figure out whether the fear was town or scum motivated."

I'm asking you to show us the sorting process you're referring to.

Ok Zito is probably town.

Just need two more town to powerblock through this.

Is this appeasement or what

I actually do want my question answered.

idc if you're annoyed, I'm not getting what I want. I asked about your process. You said the word "process" I used the word "process" at no point did I ever dig at you about "questions". Where is your process. How does it work. Show me what it was supposed to be doing. You "increased the fear level" gr8 but how the hell does that sort anybody. Is this thing on? ¿Estoy hablando Inglés?

Like this shouldn't be so hard. I'm literally trying to get at what your motivation was on that vote cuz what was posted in-game made 0 sense. It's super easy to understand what I'm trying to get at here and thus (AND THUS) should be super easy to just provide what I'm looking for and move on. Why am I having to drag this shit over multiple pages?

So here's where my thoughts are right now. Please chime in if you agree / disagree.

How can you have 0 read on me? I'm the loudest thing here.

It's because you are not listening that's so frustrating.

I am listening. If I listened any harder my head would implode. Do you want me to have an imploded head.

I guess the part I'm

still having trouble with

is that a naked vote with 0 interaction doesn't really do much to ramp up pressure so I'm just completely at a loss to how you expected to achieve your intended result. I mean is this an ego thing? Do you think Random Newbie is gonna be so scared that they were voted by The Great and Mighty Titus that they'll just wet the bed and spill the goods?

Contrast that to what Titus has done this game.

Spoiler: Scumhunting=no

Ooooh thanks.

VOTE: Titus

no lynches are bad, but so is voting for someone for legitimately asking a question. you could've at least waited for an answer y'know?

How do you assume the question is legitimate?

I see someone wanting to ensure scum feel no heat today as possible scum. It needs to be examined.

^ does not compute

more Titus votes plz

You don't compute. You know as an IC, I am not allowed to lie about mechanics, so why are you insinuating I am?

algebra is the other SE slot, Titus.

Yeah, my point exactly. He's trying wounded puppy dog defense, while acting dumber than he is.

Arona, are you alegbra's buddy?

I don't really believe that the vote was random. I voted for titus because I interpreted her post as first acknowledging that nn30's question about new lynches was just a newbie question, and then voting for nn30 as if nn30 legitimately wanted to push a no lynch. It just struck me as odd.

Oh you. I like you.

This is precisely what earned my vote. There's were some screwball mental gymnastics involved with that post and I'd love to hear Titus explain wtf was going on in her headmeat when she made it.

Newbie scum that wanted a no lynch.

That's not mental gymnastics but calling out self preservation when I see it.

Self preservation?

what?

Seriously, did you not put together that newbie scum might suggest no lynch because they fear getting lynched?

The difference is stark and obvious.

pedit: That's not at all what's going on here WHY WON'T SOMEONE OTHER THAN TWEET BE TOWN JESUS CHRIST

[Papa Zito]

Since Empoof has decided to be an ass and nobody else is actually putting in any effort I'm going on a mini vacation.

Ya'll fucking do something I'll see you later.

[Papa Zito]

Re: Zito scumread - after the Algebra flip, I did an iso of Zito. Other than getting Shadow lynched, he spent most of day one on the sidelines.

Please provide evidence of this claim, in detail.

On day two the most proactive thing he did was to speed up the Algebra lynch.

See above.

That, coupled with the fact that he refuses to see the possibility of Titus!Town, is resulting in my scum reading him.

I wrote a huge post tearing apart Titus' game as worthless noise. Can you explain to me why I should be townreading Titus after doing this?

Further: You asked me to respond to that post detailing Titus' "scumhunting". I did. You ignored this response completely. Why?

[Papa Zito]

Well Tweet's already handling that other bit.

Re: Zito scumread - after the Algebra flip, I did an iso of Zito. Other than getting Shadow lynched, he spent most of day one on the sidelines.

Please provide evidence of this claim, in detail.

Did you miss this.

[Papa Zito]

You've made a certain allegation. I will quote it again.

"Other than getting Shadow lynched, he spent most of day one on the sidelines."

You've provided no backing for this assertion. Prove to the town that this is true.

[Papa Zito]

Why don't you start building a case of your own instead of responding to the one on you?

Good question. Since this is a newbie game I'll answer.

I came into today with a game that made little sense. I'm facing a lylo situation with only one solid townread. I've done numerous isodives and looked at vote movements and haven't come up with anything definitive. What to do? In situations like these I fall back on the one thing I'm 100% sure about, which is my own role PM. Since I know I'm town, I can use that to my advantage. I'm inviting people, especially those who have expressed a scumread on me, to make a case. By doing this I can more easily assess their motivations without the (TvT? TvS? SvS?) that two unknowns going at it provides. You'll note I used this technique earlier in this very game.

Both you and Titus have expressed suspicion of my slot. That in-and-of itself is fine, but only provided you can actually back up those suspicions. Neither of you have been able to do so. You've both just handwaved the question off. Let me be clear: there is absolutely nothing unusual about what I'm asking for. Asking for a case the way I'm doing is

incredibly

common. The fact neither you nor Titus can articulate one is extremely suspect.

If you think I'm scum, as you've stated multiple times, you're going to need to convince others to join you in voting me. The best way to do this is to make a case with supporting evidence that definitively shows why I'm more likely scum than town. Why are you refusing to do this, especially when I'm inviting you to do so? Why does the fact that I'm the one asking for it matter in the least if your objective here is to get your scumspect lynched?

[Papa Zito]

It's fine if it doesn't change your read, that wasn't the purpose.

I'm not handwaving anything. I'm asking for more information. Handwaving would be saying "your case is crap" and moving on. I'm intentionally engaging you and asking you to provide more. That's the direct opposite of handwaving.

I'm not asking about lack of scumhunting. (which I've already provided examples of anyway) I'm concentrating on your first quote. I'll repost it once again.

Re: Zito scumread - after the Algebra flip, I did an iso of Zito. Other than getting Shadow lynched, he spent most of day one on the sidelines.

I'm not going to tell you how to prove this - mainly because I know it's patently false. You're the one who read my iso, you're the one who came to this conclusion, you're the one who made the accusation, so you're the one who should be able to prove it. Some thought process occurred while you were reading right? Why is it so difficult to articulate what that was? Why is it so hard to show us what gave you that idea?

[Papa Zito]

No, we're not. You're officially dodging the question.

I'm ready to vote nn30.

[Papa Zito]

HMM

[Papa Zito]

Titus I don't understand this vote, help me out.

[Papa Zito]

Oh. I thought your Empoof scumread was based on being my only viable partner. In which case I was thinking, why would you be voting Empoof over me. That makes more sense.

[Papa Zito]

Ok realtalk. I hate lylos with a passion. Just for future reference, kill me before you force me into another one of these again ok.

but I don't understand what Titus' test proved.

What's confusing you about it?

[Papa Zito]

I can't believe I'm saying this.

Titus I'm feeling really

really

strongly that our scumteam is nn/empoof. Thoughts plz.

[Papa Zito]

I'm looking at interactions between the two, particularly today.

These two nn posts were made back-to-back:

we can't both be town. Leaves 2 red in tweet/papa/nn and they can vote and win the game

Ahh, I see what you're saying. Yeah I'll buy this. One of you is scum.

@Titus - but a scum!empoof would benefit from having Arona around at this very moment. The point of leaving him alive would be to win a lylo.

I was definitely testing what would happen. I did it while I would be here. If I saw someone vote, I would have immediately unvoted. If Empoof was town (meaning my theory was incorrect), he would have gotten votes. Instead, a stalemate happens.

I'm almost convinced. Can you think of a situation where your theory doesn't work?

In the first he agrees one of Empoof/Titus must be scum, but immediately argues it can't be Empoof, so it must be Titus. 2nd one he agrees with Titus, making her town, which then contradicts the 1st.

Wagons with this pair:

Vote Count 1.5

Biologically speaking, we are all people made up of smaller people.

algebra

(3):

Titus

,

Dunhallym

,

nn30

nn30

(3):

shaddowez

,

algebra

,

aronagrundy

aronagrundy

(1):

Empoof

Not Voting

:

Papa Zito

,

MorningTweet

Vote Count 1.10

Find more ways to work ‘plinth’ into daily conversations.

shaddowez

(5):

Papa Zito

,

Empoof

,

aronagrundy

,

Titus

,

algebra

algebra

(4):

nn30

,

Morning Tweet

,

Dunhallym

,

shaddowez

Not Voting

:

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

These wagons make sense to me.

Looking at this made me realize a possible motive behind grundy's kill - Empoof went toe-to-toe with him Day 1 and had to back off. A scum Empoof may have decided he wouldn't be able to get a lynch on grundy and so killed him instead.

[Papa Zito]

Yeah.

Yeah.

I really think this is the answer.

VOTE: Empoof

[Papa Zito]

If it's gg then it's gg. At the very least I hope the new folks found the game compelling and opt to stick around because you were all great to play with.

[Papa Zito]

For real, regardless of outcome I think our newbies completely outperformed the vets. Which is awesome.


That said I'm still hoping for Day 4.

[Papa Zito]

:/

If I was wrong I'm sorry guys.

[Papa Zito]

nn buddying Titus and Poof buddying me just makes so much

sense

here...

bluh

[Papa Zito]

The scum team was me and Tweet.

I'm stunned.

[Papa Zito]

I played like shit.

jfc

[Papa Zito]

Bird needs a trophy.


ugh I'm salty lol

[Papa Zito]

I don't think I reached the minimum post count to be eligible for that award

I nominated you so I guess we'll find out.

[Papa Zito]

Scummies nomination thread.

They dropped Best Newbie for some reason.

[Papa Zito]

I did the Rising Star one yeah.


I was completely snowed Tweet. Good enough for me to let the committee take a look.

[Papa Zito]

I hope to see you around again too Dunny. Regardless of the outcome you did really well and it was a pleasure playing with you.