Newbie 1779 | Spring | Endgame

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Hi all.

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I will be on this as soon as I get off school.

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Welcome to the game TB

Thank you

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Too bad I am town

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I see Alisae is at L-2. What is the case on Alisae?

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It takes 5 to lynch. There are two votes as of the last vote count + one more. That puts you at 3 votes. 3/5 is L-2, not L-1

Vote Count 2.04

-Grey-

(2): Alisae, oldwino

Alisae

(2): mastina, Darklyn

lemonater

(1): Dogwatch

Not Voting

: Icy, lemonater, -Grey-
With 8 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-03-31 13:00:00)

alright, i'll switch it... i do think we learn more from an alisae flip

VOTE: alisae

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Welcome Christ

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Welcome Christ

Can I just comment on how appropriate this comment is with your Amish avatar?

It is actually Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, the Rebbe of the Chabad movement. And I meant Chris, not Christ. I hate auto wreck.

Anyway I am still reading the game and should have content to produce tomorrow.

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Ok I'm here. Who wants to engage?

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To be honest. This is actually my stance right now. The lemonator slot is actually a larger scumread than Alisae. I think Alisae is scum, but I'm not absolutely sure; I'm pretty damn sure that lemonator's slot is scum.

If you are more confident in Chris' slot being scum, why are you voting for Alisae over him?

Theory question

: Is it better to lynch a player who is more likely to flip scum or a player who's flip would be more informative to town?

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Yeah I believe scum!Grey would get into a fight with RC

I've played several games with Grey/RC. They always seem to get into some sort of fight regardless of alignment. Hell, I even get into fights with Grey/RC.

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ChrisOrmie is basically sheeping Alisae like I suspected he would, lulz

Um...I don't see Chris sheeping Alisae. Am I missing something here?

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There's also something to be said for the ulti/pieg/lemon slot being replaced AGAIN.

I would agree with this if this wasn't a newbie game. In Newbie 1746, for example, there was a slot that had 3 people replace out. That slot flipped town jailkeeper.

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It seems to me that the town learns so much more from a Alisae flip than a Lemon flip.

This is also true though, since the slot hasn't produced actual content basically all game. The closest was pieg, and even there, not really much. pieg asked lots of questions, but didn't really do much with them. (The closest we get is casting shade on oldwino, which reduces the chance of the newbie-scumteam. Also, 584 looks like pieg knew oldwino was town.)

I disagree with your interpretation of this post. HOWEVER, I will say that it is quite telling that he says that lurking is anti-town behavior and then requests a replacement.

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do we actually know icy was attacked? could there have been no night action at all?

townslip and even if this isn't a townslip I don't see why scum would push this narative.

Occam's Razor deduces that Icy was attacked rather then Scum pulling a no-kill gambit.

I have to agree with you here.

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Dogwatch is my top town read right now. I would like to try and sort ChrisOrmie, mastina, and alisae. I like Chris' entrance, though I was not a big fan of what I saw from some of his predecessors.

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Anyone here?

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I'm here. Let's chat.

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Alisae, why am I scum?

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VOTE: Alisae

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Nope. Not a scum claim.

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That wasn't a hammer.

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lol.

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Nice shades. I actually miscounted and thought I put you at L-2.

Anyway what is your case against Grey/My slot?

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Can you point those out and why you think it is scum aligned opportunistic?

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You came in here and admitted the only thing you bothered to read was Grey's ISO. It seems like you were hell bent on tunneling on Grey before you even came in.

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Staaaawp.
Grey is going to get townread as either alignment majority of the time. One of the things about his scumgame is A. He hates playing scum and B. Either way his game is going to be clean.

There's a contradiction here. You are saying that you are confident that Grey/my slot is scum, yet you are saying that his game is going to be clean. How do those two possibly connect?

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Alisae, if you're actually town, then you really need to pull out of your tunnel and confirmation bias. Did you learn anything from Witch Trial's Mafia? The TVT bullshit from you and dreal cost town the game. I'm not having a repeat of that here.

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Um you were death tunneling me at twilight 1 and from what I recall, you still TR'd Grey even after his god awful hammer.

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Mastina is at L-1

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Hey Dog, please stick around. You're one of the more pleasant players to read and reply to (even though I don't reply much).

I agree.

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I don't like how quickly the wagon on mastina formed and don't like Alisae's jump from me to mastina. Mastina's frustration feels town. Masina/Alisae is probably not a team.

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Will post more after work.

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ChrisOrmie is basically sheeping Alisae like I suspected he would, lulz

^That.

Where is the sleeping? Him sheeping would have been him voting me, not him voting you and Formica new wagon

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@mastina, thanks for that information. I did some browsing in the archives and found that day 1 scum lynches were more likely to result in a scum win than a town win.

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So are you a fucking hypocrite, or just opportunistic scum willing to drop literally everything about Grey just because it's convenient?

^^ This. So much this.

I really hate how Alisae's wagon got derailed and how your wagon got to L-1 in less than 4 hours.

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VOTE: mastina
If I can't get the Grey slot, I'll go get mastina.

Hey Alisae.
You placed this L-1 vote, yes?

You still would have pointed out it was L-1.

So are you a fucking hypocrite, or just opportunistic scum willing to drop literally everything about Grey just because it's convenient?

No, I'm saying TB does that. AKA that's apart of his meta.
I usually don't do that stuff.

1. I put you at L-2. Not L-1.
2. I really hate using meta because it can be easily manipulated and exploited.

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If that doesn't tell you my wagon is driven by scum, I don't know WHAT will.

I completely agree with this. The way Chris derailed Alisae's wagon and Alisae was quick to hop on to the wagon gives even more credibility to an Alisae/Chris scum team.

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IMO - MS needs to have some non-newbie matrix 6 games, since they seem to be so popular with experienced players. And maybe only allow three experienced players in each newbie game, one IC and two SE's, and not allow anyone with more than 3-4-5 games completed to join even as a replacement. That way, newbies would not feel so overwhelmed (and often inferior).

I actually fully agree with this. Unfortunately it is sometimes difficult to find replacements

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Old I'm willing to go back onto TB.

And you call Grey's votes opportunistic. How is this not opportunistic?

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Alisae: *OMG grey is scum because he is opportunistic voting (which he still hasn't explained)*
Alisae: If I can't get TB/Grey lynched, I'll vote mastina and put her at L-1
Alisae: Ok, I can head back over to TB/Grey

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Welcome Blawb

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it is also a team which if for some insane reason I actually were stupid enough to leave Darklyn alive would be plausible for me to have not been the killer.

This right here is why I think mastina is town. Scum!mastina would never leave conftown!tracker Darklyn alive for another day, even to take a shot at the BP vest.

This makes me think we could possibly be dealing with a scum team of two newbs.

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ChrisOrmie/oldwino
ChrisOrmie/DogWatch
DogWatch/oldwino

Do any of these three possible pairings make sense? If we see that Dog is town, then the only possible pairing via PoE is ChrisOrmie/oldwino

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I didn't say I believe Alisae is town. I'm just considering the possibility of a newbie scum team.

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@ Mod/PP

- I can't tell from the D1 opening if there was any opportunity for pregame chatting between scum. Looks to me like the you didn't allow time for that, but I don't know if scum can chat while you were waiting for the required number of players to confirm. Can and will you clarify if scum had an opportunity for pregame chat and coaching? Thanks.

Town slip.

Though in my experience, there is usually a small window of time to chat pre game. Not sure if they did have a chance or not in this game.

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If no one else is around at deadline, then I will hammer. Mastina is far from my first choice for a lynch, but it is better than no lynch!

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Less than an hour and half left. I won't be around the rest of the day and really don't want this day to end in a no lynch.

VOTE: Mastina

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It's MyLo. Please do not recklessly vote or the mafia might be able to quickhammer.

MyLo stands for Mislynch-and-Lose. If we mislynch today, we will lose the game. It is imperative that we do not recklessly vote.

No lynch might be the best option today.

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In all seriousness I still SR ThinkBig because of Grey's play.

Just because of Grey's play?

If you focused just on my play so far, how would you read me?

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I have been strongly town reading oldwino all game. I reserve the idea that he might be a very good actor, but he's also a newbie and I just don't see that to be the case. That leaves one team.

Chris - Alisae

This is the team that I agree with. I hate how Chris came in and derailed the Alisae wagon. IIRC, Alisae was at L-1 or very close to L-1 when Chris replaced in. He immediately voted for Mastina.

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TB, which would you rather lynch right now?

Icy, are you saying you're 80% on Chris being scum?

If I had my preference, Alisae.

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TB you still want to hold off voting?

I will vote later tonight when I get home. I'm at school right now.

Pseudo-vote: Alisae

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@MOd: That's a pseudo vote, not an actual vote

Bolded with "vote" and a player's name. I'm counting it as a vote. You may unvote if you wish.
-PP

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UNVOTE:

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@chris, if you think Alisae is town, then who is scum?

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TB hasn't even commented on Dogwatch's vote and I find that adorable.
VOTE: Thinkbig

What exactly am I supposed to comment on? It takes 4 to lynch. Scum team can't hammer with 1 vote.

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And I really haven't commented on much of anything yet today.

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And I really haven't commented on much of anything yet today.

COASTING SCUM!

No. Not coasting scum. It's more like I'm working and in school for 10 hours + and it is the week before Passover.

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I also took some time to re read the game and will be making some comments on that tomorrow. It is 1 am where I am. Good night.

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Not completed my ISO, but Dog feels a lot more town when I looked at their interactions on d2.

Ali's push on Grey worries me, as does how quickly Grey exited the game. I really don't know what to think about that whole interaction, I think one of those two slots has to be scum because it just doesn't seem TvT at all. RC's push on Smith felt genuine, but he is good enough to do that as scum too.

Wino feels town, good tone, good analysis. The buddying of Icy worries me a little, but I don't think that is AI on it's own. I like how they don't feel comfortable with my slot after the Mastina lynch, scum would have pushed me harder but they stick to their own reads and observations.

I think that Ali/Grey interaction was not TvT, so I think we have to lynch one of those two today. Dog's vote is on Ali, and both Icy and Wino seem happy to vote there. It makes me think that both Ali and TB might be our scum after all.

Intent to vote Alisae

@Icy How confident are you on TB being town?

You came in the game having a strong TR on Alisae and successfully got the wagon off of him and onto mastina. You even mentioned that you still have a TR on him earlier today. What changed?

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Nothing I'm going to say is going to change anyone's minds.
GG scum win.

I'm not a fan of this AtE. If you are town, don't give up. If you are scum, then please continue beating a dead horse.

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Not completed my ISO, but Dog feels a lot more town when I looked at their interactions on d2.

Ali's push on Grey worries me, as does how quickly Grey exited the game. I really don't know what to think about that whole interaction, I think one of those two slots has to be scum because it just doesn't seem TvT at all. RC's push on Smith felt genuine, but he is good enough to do that as scum too.

Wino feels town, good tone, good analysis. The buddying of Icy worries me a little, but I don't think that is AI on it's own. I like how they don't feel comfortable with my slot after the Mastina lynch, scum would have pushed me harder but they stick to their own reads and observations.

I think that Ali/Grey interaction was not TvT, so I think we have to lynch one of those two today. Dog's vote is on Ali, and both Icy and Wino seem happy to vote there. It makes me think that both Ali and TB might be our scum after all.

Intent to vote Alisae

@Icy How confident are you on TB being town?

Like, having a strong TR on me. And then posting this.
This is basicly a scumclaim. This is scum distancing from TB in mylo.
But it's doesn't matter. Because nothing I say changes anything.
At all.

Yeah because my scum buddy totally distance by voting for someone else.

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Everyone is just in a fucking deathtunnel on me. And there really isn't any way for me to work around the tunnels.
TB think of mastina's game for a second.

Funny that you bring up mastina's game. You complain about everyone death tunneling you and yet you don't stop to think that this is what you have been doing the moment you replaced in. You voted Grey and continued pushing him and me. You have made no attempt to solve the game except by saying "Grey/TB is scum."

Alisae, you are better than this and you know it. Newsflash: There are two scums in this game. You have not even attempted to try to find the second one up until recently when you called Chris scum.

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It looks to me like Chris is painting himself into a corner. If the Alisae lynch goes through and he flips scum, where does Chris realistically go from there? He town reads everyone else in the game.

I agree with this. The way that he got the wagon off of Alisae and was hard town reading him up until now feels like a last minute effort to save his scum buddy. Now that he realizes his scum buddy is going to get lynched, the only thing he has left to do to save the game for him is to bus him.

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Alisae/Chris is the only team that makes sense.

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VOTE: Alisae

I'm happy lynching here or lynching Chris.

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Good game.

@Alisae, next time you say that Grey is scum, I will be the first to say "Baaa baaa"

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Good game.

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@MOD: I am ok with releasing the scum chat.
@Grey, hope I made you proud with your slot.
@Alisae, thanks for being usual lynch bait!
@Chris, thanks for being an awesome buddy.

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@Old, you played well and hope to play with you in the future.
@Dog, please stick around! Would also love to play with you again.

My scum game sucks. Any tips would be great.

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Well, I got one of you at least. I was DAMN SURE of my last few posts. Like, I'd never felt that level of clarity in a game. Oh well, this is my last game anyway.

For the record, my town slip early on was completely manufactured. I laughed every time someone brought it up, especially those who said I couldn't have come up with it on my own!

Sorry to hear that it's your last game. Sorry that this game wasn't more fun or worked out better

I will say it was a well done slip, not in the sense of just doing it, but in the sense of actually working it into a solving type post. As something explicitly intentional, that was very impressive and well done!

I agree.

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Though don't try that outside newbie games. It usually doesn't work.

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I think this is the first time I had a perfect scum win.

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@Mastina, I am sorry for hammering you. I was pocketing you so well and was hoping to keep you around for MyLo.

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Hey RC, thanks for replacing out as you would probably have caught me. How do you think I played though?

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@Smith, thanks!!

Why would I be lying about theory in regards to MyLo?

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@Smith, thanks!!

Why would I be lying about theory in regards to MyLo?

There was a known bp, which meant that scum would just shoot there and there was no pro town benefit to no lynching.

Though in this case scum wouldn't have shot the BP as they never shot him the first night. Which was odd.

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Hey RC, thanks for replacing out as you would probably have caught me. How do you think I played though?

I genuinely thought both you and Chris were sorta obvscum. I am surprised town lost but then again not all that surprised given that I feel like Mastina essentially made the game unwinnable for town.

Yeah I was so obv scum it hurt.

I'm surprised we won, but not really. I think had I waited until after Icy to have voted, it would have been different.

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I think this is the first time I had a perfect scum win.

And RC, once again we are opposite alignments.

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I have no idea why smith was lynched. Smith was so obvtown and IMO did more to help the newbies than the IC

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@Grey, hope I made you proud with your slot.

You rocked bro, great job.

Thanks

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I must be really shit at pushing my reads.

Lol, you can't even lynch me when my slot is empty.

He could be a cop with a guilty and still couldn't push through with a lynch

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I really enjoyed playing with you, Dog. You were respectful of others even when you disagreed with them. Lots of respect for your game and you!!! Excellent town slip. Who says newbies can't play well! You played better than most of the experienced players. Would love to play with you again. Chin up.

I agree with this. You also played well and commend you for being respectful throughout the game. Hope to see you in a future game.

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Yeah, that's why I'm trying another newbie before I get into 'real' games. Looking forward to a normal though. Soon.

If you are interested, I am in the mod queue for micro games and will be moderating a variant on Matrix6. I'd love for you to join.

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When I am town, RC is always conf scum (and vice versa)

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So TB is town whenever I scumread him got it.

FTFY

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Sorry Ali. Great job nailing me this game, though. Seriously.

Agreed, though I did a decent job wiggling my way of it

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I just feel like town could have won if I didn't replace out.

FTFY