[Game Over] Newbie 1784 - Escape Room
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I do not like this strat at all, I think it's a bad way to teach newbies to play and I refuse to claim either way.
VOTE: Pine
I'm scum this game Pine.
BAD NEWS FOR YOU
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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Also hello newbies I am one of your lovely SEs this game. I'm here to hopefully help Pine as the IC (he's an excellent IC so you're in for a treat) in teaching you all the ropes of mafia. It's my opinion that teaching should always take precedence over playing to my win-con in the newbie queue, so that will be my approach throughout the game. If you're ever struggling, please feel free to ask me directly for help on anything. Even if you're scum. Most important thing in any game as always, have fun!
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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Actually I just realized I'm not technically an SE lol. But yes, the above still applies!
I have read your explanations and I have seen the strategy in play and I think it's a bad way to teach newbies to play. I do not want this to be a topic of discussion when we should be focusing on RVS so please drop it.
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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It puts the focus on the setup rather than the play. There is enough setup-spec on MS, we don't need to encourage that. Newbie queue should be about learning to play, not solving the setup to churn out a win as easily and quickly as possible. There's also a tendency for games to stall out when a newbie lands a BP role PM because the newbie BP just loses interest, and scum have less ability to fakeclaim, which is an important thing for newbie scum to learn how to do. The amount of times scum actually claim BP is so miniscule that this strategy is really not necessary to ward that off as if it's some threat.In post 21, TesXX wrote:nancy wrote:How is it a bad way to teach newbies to play? It protects both the tracker and the BP and gives us knowledge of what our threat is and what we have to fight it. It stops scum from claiming OS BP when they're about to be lynched. If you have a really, really good explanation to why this is a bad strategy then go ahead please.
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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Edit.In post 26, nancy wrote:
It puts the focus on the setup rather than the play. There is enough setup-spec on MS, we don't need to encourage that. Newbie queue should be about learning to play, not solving the setup to churn out a win as easily and quickly as possible. There's also a tendency for games to stall out when a newbie lands a BP role PM because the newbie BP just loses interest, and scum have less ability to fakeclaim, which is an important thing for newbie scum to learn how to do. The amount of times scum actually claim BP is so miniscule that this strategy is really not necessary to ward that off as if it's some threat.In post 21, TesXX wrote:How is it a bad way to teach newbies to play? It protects both the tracker and the BP and gives us knowledge of what our threat is and what we have to fight it. It stops scum from claiming OS BP when they're about to be lynched. If you have a really, really good explanation to why this is a bad strategy then go ahead please.
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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OMGUSIn post 24, WhyMafia wrote:
Confirmed scumIn post 17, nancy wrote: I'm scum this game Pine.
VOTE: Nancy
VOTE: WhyMafia
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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Yep, OMGUS = Oh My God You Suck.
It's basically voting someone simply because they voted you. You can also for instance OMGUS scumread someone, which is scumreading someone simply because they scumread you. So I OMGUS voted you.
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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Even if I were, I assure you I'd be doing it with your best interests at heart. I already claimed scum, so when we get to LyLo together you have no reason not to lynch me. (:
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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Rude.In post 38, WhyMafia wrote:If you're doing it in my best interests, why don't we just lynch you today
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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How is that question relevant to this game?
RQS is "Random Questioning Stage", where you ask players a bunch of meaningless questions, it used to be the thing before it was replaced by RVS because RQS was found to inherently favor scum.
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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Look at this thread for evidence. RVS has been stilted by the philosophical differences in your insistence that people claim and my refusal to claim. Discussing theory at this point is not at all conducive to scumhunting, which is what we should be doing and which is what RVS is designed to facilitate.In post 57, TesXX wrote:@nancy how does claiming BP or not BP f up RVS?
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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Yes. Have you been reading my posts? What do you think about my refusal? Does it mean that I'm scum? You should probably go ahead and lynch me, if so.In post 85, Chronicle wrote:
Refusing to claim even though it's a pro-town strat?In post 17, nancy wrote:I do not like this strat at all, I think it's a bad way to teach newbies to play and I refuse to claim either way.
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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That isn't all that I've said. If you think this, you haven't been digesting my content.In post 88, TesXX wrote:Well nancy just thinks it messes up RVS.
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Do you think that makes TesXX towny? If so, why?In post 89, StealthyNoodle wrote:
Well about 80% of TesXX' posts till now relate to the BP-claiming-strat and it's usefulness for town.In post 82, Srceenplay wrote:How are they eager to steer town to victory?
I don't think the strat is frightening in the least. I think it's not a good way to introduce newbies to mafia.In post 89, StealthyNoodle wrote:She still wants to boycott a town-winning strategy. Even though I agree with her that the strat is more frightening than helpful in a newbie-game, I'd still say there's a higher probability she's scum.
Why did you claim even though you agreed with me, and why did you vote me? You're at L-2, btw.
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We're clearly out of RVS but I don't feel comfortable putting Noodle at L-1 at this stage in the game so I'm going to vote for the inactive slot.
VOTE: bjc
bjc, please do things okay?
pedit supposed probability?
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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Do you not think that scum can argue in favor of pro-town strats in order to seem to be Town? Do you think that scum are more likely to go along with whatever Town says in order to blend in? Do you think that scum would be likely to argue against a pro-town strat if it put them in the spotlight and got them a lot of negative attention?In post 96, StealthyNoodle wrote:Not at all, I just find it more likely. He supports the use of a pro-town strat, while you don't. Simple as pie.
If you agree that the strat should not be used, you have every reason not to go along with it.In post 96, StealthyNoodle wrote:Even though I agree with you, I have no reason to not claim not BP.
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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I have already stated that I believe teaching takes precedence over win-con. I will not pander to groupthink. I do not "follow instructions". We can move as soon as you're willing to do anything useful, like hunting scum. It's only distracting because you've made such a hoo-ha about it. I disagree with this strategy on principle.In post 98, Loopdan wrote:@nancy I agree that this strat is not the best way to introduce newbies to the game, but I'm not the IC (and neither are you). Your wincon should take precedence over your desire to teach newbs. I get opposing the BP claim strat if the claims hadn't started yet, but with 6/9 already claiming it only helps scum to have incomplete claims.
Also, this would not detract from RVS if you would have followed instructions and claimed in your first post.
@srceen-- you too
I refuse to vote anywhere else but non-claimers until this is resolved.
VOTE: nancy
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And he was acting anti-wincon in order to make the point. If he were playing to his wincon as scum he would've just gone along with it. Which solidifies what I am trying to say. The pro-town benefit to this strategy is marginal at best and our own IC in this game has stated that it is not irrefutably pro-town. The emphasis on setup spec rather than scumhunting and the cost of getting into these exact situations, where we are squabbling over setup spec rather than scumhunting, is precisely why this strat sucks.In post 115, Loopdan wrote:
If you are talking about rb he was scum and we lynched him day1 for this.In post 111, nancy wrote:As a matter of fact, Loopdan, an IC in another newbie game has already made all the arguments that I have.
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More or less.In post 117, Chronicle wrote:
I take it that this summarises all your concerns with claiming BP?In post 27, nancy wrote:It puts the focus on the setup rather than the play. There is enough setup-spec on MS, we don't need to encourage that. Newbie queue should be about learning to play, not solving the setup to churn out a win as easily and quickly as possible. There's also a tendency for games to stall out when a newbie lands a BP role PM because the newbie BP just loses interest, and scum have less ability to fakeclaim, which is an important thing for newbie scum to learn how to do. The amount of times scum actually claim BP is so miniscule that this strategy is really not necessary to ward that off as if it's some threat.
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I don't want a BP claim or a Doc/Tracker claim on the board before Day 1 has even begun. It kills the game. It's not fun or interesting. It's simply churning mechanics and not what mafia is about, not how newbies should be learning to play. Tes has gotten away with being read as Town while producing 0 content whatsoever simply by pushing this strat and that is a perfect example of how crap it is.
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Wouldn't be a refusal if the strat weren't pushedIn post 128, Chronicle wrote:
Only if there is a refusal to claim.In post 120, nancy wrote:The emphasis on setup spec rather than scumhunting and the cost of getting into these exact situations, where we are squabbling over setup spec rather than scumhunting, is precisely why this strat sucks.
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[quote="In post 140The reason all my content has been about the strategy is because you haven't claimed yet and I want to start finding who gets rope.[/quote]
Nah, I think you're hiding behind this stuff in lieu of actual scumhunting as an excuse to seem to be doing something without actually doing anything.
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Edit.In post 142, nancy wrote:
Nah, I think you're hiding behind this stuff in lieu of actual scumhunting as an excuse to seem to be doing something without actually doing anything.In post 140, TesXX wrote:The reason all my content has been about the strategy is because you haven't claimed yet and I want to start finding who gets rope.
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It was already obvious anyway so what do you want from me? Cool I made shit tier plays are you happy? This whole BP/not-BP strat is garbage and look, the game is stalled as a result. Congrats.
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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I assume you're being ironic? I believe I've answered the question in previous posts, but your post also answers the question. (Think about why for a minute if you're not sure how that is.) But to elaborate on how I caught you, the post betrays your guilty conscience. The question doesn't come from a Town mindset as I understand it and doesn't lead anywhere except back unto itself. The way that you phrased it combined with the way that it comes out of nowhere (I didn't even explicitly call you scum, for instance) tell me that you have an active sense of guilt (which only scum can have) and were trying overly hard to pose the question in the way that a townie might pose it. The end result just comes off stilted and awkward.In post 151, TesXX wrote:
No, I made 146 because 142 didn't make sense.nancy wrote:Cool, I caught scum on page 6. 146 is what a guilty conscience looks like, btw.
Thanks for answering my question by the way.
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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I just had a tomato-base pasta sauce with diced garden vegetables, sundried tomato and baby spinach, topped with Parmesan. Uh-mazing. I don't drink though, hehe. I was always a chardonnay dyke, when I did. If you like Riesling try the Waipara West (NZ), if you find a seller that imports. Thank me later.In post 78, Pine wrote:Red sauce is simmering. I take store-bought jars of sauce and add ingredients to them until the flavor is entirely changed. This time, I added sauteed onion, garlic, thyme, hand-crushed rosemary, oregano, and Parmesan cheese to it, among other things I'm likely forgetting. I don't have an open bottle of red wine (I'm a riesling fellow) so I'm giving that a pass tonight.
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Care to elaborate on the ew?In post 136, Chronicle wrote:
EwIn post 127, StealthyNoodle wrote:This person has been staring at that noose for hours, not uttering a single word.
UNVOTE: nancy
VOTE: bjc0303
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If you're at the stage in the game where you don't have anyone you're scumreading heavily or don't have any wagons you want to actively push at that time, it's generally a fine idea to push on people who are absent or lurking in an effort to get them to contribute to the game. With that in mind, do you have any problems with the post? What did you dislike about my vote on bjc?
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It's productive for the very reason that the intent (and it's up to you to parse whether or not the vote was truly made with this intent or was just an easy vote) is to bring that person into the game. You can interact with people in thread without voting them, but you can't interact with someone who isn't in the thread at all. It's kind of an on-principle thing. If it's only one vote it won't be particularly effective, but it's the principle of "get in here and help us catch scum or you die" that matters, and if a wagon forms and that slot is in fact lurking rather than absent, they are forced to engage in the thread where they otherwise could've continued to lurk. Does that make sense?In post 161, Chronicle wrote:
My point still stands. Why push someone who hasn't even posted in this game yet when there are so many others to interact with? You don't even have to push a wagon, but interactions with anyone else would generate some sort of contact or reaction.In post 160, nancy wrote:If you're at the stage in the game where you don't have anyone you're scumreading heavily or don't have any wagons you want to actively push at that time, it's generally a fine idea to push on people who are absent or lurking in an effort to get them to contribute to the game. With that in mind, do you have any problems with the post? What did you dislike about my vote on bjc?
Engaging with someone who hasn't even made an entry seems counter productive. There is nothing to gain, you can't even ask him a question when you don't know any of his stances. Any vote or wagon on him just seems empty and baseless.
And I disliked your bjc for the exact same reasons.
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I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you're asking of me. What is the connection between you being scum and how a Town slot would answer? Answer what? Could you try rephrasing maybe?In post 167, TesXX wrote:So if I'm scum, make a post with how a town player would answer it.
Well, what I've trying to push you towards looking at not strictly whether the you like the vote, but whether you like theIn post 168, Chronicle wrote:Does a wagon really force them to come into this thread? If he's been avoiding this game, sure.
He hasn't come online since this game started. It's a lazy push. I understand the rationale behind voting a lurker to encourage content, but surely you can see this vote will not accomplish that.post. I got hints of you reading into that in 159, but I wanted to see whether you just thought that voting lurkers on policy was bad or whether you were reading into Noodle's motivation and finding it lacking.
It looks like you have done this somewhat after all, which is great. But I'd also encourage you to question Noodle on it rather than just come to the conclusion that it's a bad post. Noodle may very well not have realized that bjc hadn't come online since the game started (I certainly didn't), for instance, or may just not have thought it through very well, or may have been following a thought process that hadn't occurred to you, or something else entirely. The only way to know for sure (granted, he could always be scum and lie, so you can'treallyknow for sure) is to question him.
Start a dialogue, create content. You think his push is lazy, but what does that mean about his alignment? Both Town and scum can be lazy, and both Town and scum can make good or bad posts. So what you really have to figure out here is how Noodle's post indicates one alignment or the other.
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The vote as I referenced it is the policy of voting to demand activity. The post is the content (including the vote) created in the context of the gamestate.In post 174, Chronicle wrote:What's the difference between the vote and the post?
Gotta start somewhere! I don't think you're bad at all. Try not to think about your performance too much and just relax! Have fun!In post 176, WhyMafia wrote:But idk I'm bad at mafia
Lurking is most certainly not an explicitly pro-scum strat. As with everything, you have to look at context to parse whether or not the lurking is scum- or Town-motivated. Lurking is not a good playstyle at all imo, but it's generally just considered anti-town. Look at the "why". Why is a slot lurking? Is it lurking off pressure? Is it lurking because it has nothing to contribute? Is it lurking because the gamestate benefits it? Find the motivation and you find the alignment.In post 178, StealthyNoodle wrote:So, do you agree that he might very well be lurking then? And do you deny that lurking is a pro-scum strat?
Why this naked vote?
I still don't follow, unfortunately. Let's go back to 146. What were you trying achieve there?In post 188, TesXX wrote:
I meant to sayIn post 170, nancy wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you're asking of me. What is the connection between you being scum and how a Town slot would answer? Answer what? Could you try rephrasing maybe?In post 167, TesXX wrote:So if I'm scum, make a post with how a town player would answer it.ask, notanswer. My bad.
In post 193, WhyMafia wrote:Note - idk what a standard reads list looks like on ms. I'm sorry of it's horrible, I'm a tad overwhelmed rnSpoiler: Rant on readslists
Anything I can do to help you be less overwhelmed, or is it a RL thing?
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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I think I understand you? Wrt 146 specifically, it really depends on personality, but the generic townie response I'd be looking for there would be course-correction, provided you felt my point was fair. If you didn't think my point was fair, a healthy response would be to flesh out why and try and dialogue with me to resolve it. If you did think my point was fair, a healthy response would be to respond by incorporating the criticisms and move forwards (start pushing the gamestate). Instead, you asked me a vague question with no real trajectory. The answer to what you should've been doing all game so far, rather than emptily pushing the BP claim strat, would be scumhunting, as I've said before. But that would require you being Town, since scum can't actually scumhunt (they can only pretend to).In post 200, TesXX wrote:I was trying to figure out why you thought what you did in 142. By knowing what you think a town mindset does in my slot, it gives me more info on your FoS.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?-
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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Sorry!In post 199, Srceenplay wrote:#3 Can everyone stop with the wall post of quotes. Pain in the ass for mobile guys like me. Especially when it's time to quote things.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?-
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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You're welcome. Don't worry, I promise that this is a case of everyone else seeming to know what they are doing without really having any clue. You can't see into the doubts and confusion in other people's minds, but it's always there. That said, I definitely have a better idea of what's going on that you! So if you need help processing anything, let me know!In post 205, WhyMafia wrote:Thanks for the reads list advice Nancy. Much appreciated
It's just a combination of irl stuff + the fact that all of you seem to know what you're doing xd. I am able to understand what's going on, but I'm just not really used to this. If that makes any sense. Like I've learned a lot from just a couple of days so far, and it's just a lot to process.
Pine and I are friends, and I like to think I can get a pretty good read on him early on. Combination of gut and recognizing patterns.In post 206, WhyMafia wrote:Why are you so sure pine is town? He made only a few posts and they were simply to defend you. I'm just interested in hearing your reasoning
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?-
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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AtE = Appeal to Emotions.In post 208, WhyMafia wrote:B) what does "your poor me I'm bad AtE is scummy mean
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... reviations
Feel free to use the above link as a reference if you encounter an abbreviation you don't know. If you haven't already read the wiki pages Pine linked to in his IC post, I'd highly recommend that, when you feel you can process it.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?-
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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I read the playerlist. Come at me bro.In post 255, StealthyNoodle wrote:
Thanks for enlightening me on this. What made you realize that you weren't an SE in under six minutes?In post 253, nancy wrote:I'm an SE in the newbie queue, just forgot that I wasn't in an SE slot this game. I corrected it immediately.
VOTE: nancy
VOTE: Noodle
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?-
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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You scum Loop?In post 276, Loopdan wrote:Tes and noodle are screaming town to me.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?-
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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I'm actually reading you as Town and the theory you're pushing here is pretty blatantly dumb and in ingorance of how partner interactions even work. If you want to scumread Pine for chainsawing you're more than welcome to but you're silly if you're conf!biasing on that so hard to manufacture a townread on an objectively obvscum slot just because it agrees with your misguided ideas about win-con. The mod hasn't intervened. Guess what that means? I'm not breaking any rules. I'm just pushing a philosophy. You don't like teaching and want gear up the game to churn out wins for newbies, go for it. I'd rather focus on teaching and if I have the chance to royally fuck over a newbie like I do right now with Noodle I'm not going to because it won't be fun for him or anyone else. I'm not going to play hard because I care about teaching. This is the newbie queue. Keep the tryhard for the normal queue.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?-
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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The one I am voting. This isn't about the role of SEs. I'm not an SE. You treating this as if it's some objective truth is the whole issue here. Instead of letting it drop as a difference in philosophy you've continued to push the fuck out of this all game long as though I'm not playing to win. It's nauseating by now, for the love of god.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?-
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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In post 318, StealthyNoodle wrote:I'd like to see you try!Stop pitying me, and give me your best shot. If I'm obvscum it shouldn't be hard at all. We all got into the game prepared to be lynched at first day. I won't be bitter, and I doubt the others will be either. Being an semi-experienced player, you know this - and tbh you're just making yourself more suspicious.
I'm not pitying you at all, ftr, I just want to let other people have their shots and don't want to dominate discussion. I've been too much at the center of the gamestate as it is and I'd prefer to let you guys interact with each other more. I've responded in a somewhat joking way ("come at me bro") to hopefully encourage others to pick at the situation. Basically the issue with your case on me though is that you're conflating a lot of non-scum-indicative things and trying to make a case for me being scum out of them.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?-
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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I don't get defensive as scum but which parts read as scum getting defensive?In post 334, Chronicle wrote:And with her stances on pine and noodle(disagree with both of them) as well as her recent reaction, it kinda reads as scum getting defensive.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?-
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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This kind of post is why I'm scumreading you, Tes. You haven't been involving in pushing the gamestate forwards at all, you haven't been scumhunting. You need to get involved in more than a superficial way and try and pick at people's arguments and find motivation behind what people are doing. Even if you're scum, you should be trying to practice those skills and not hide by cutesy posts like the above.In post 347, TesXX wrote:Then you should've claimed Investigates-in-pregame Cop.
In post 134, nancy wrote:I'm VT
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?