Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

[Hectic]

I didn't realise this game had started, I'll catchup later. @mod: Are we allowed to talk about the othe games in Team Mafia during this game?

-Hectic

[Hectic]

You guys mind if I lurk the first few day phases out? I joined too many games and this is lower down on my priority list. My partners will probably check in later.

-Hectic

[Hectic]

Hi, I'm here. Sorry if I've been inactive, I didn't know this thread existed, or really anything about this whole Team Mafia thing other than what you guys have told me. I've seen my role PM now and am ready to begin playing.

-Thilbert

[Hectic]

I cannot answer for Hectic but am here as myself, Thilbert. I have known Hectic for many generations, and we were playing jester nightless mafia with each other while we still frequented our cribs. I would like to answer any questions, if you have them. I have read the first two pages.

-Thilbert

[Hectic]

I have not actually read the first two pages, Elsa Jay. I was hoping no one would question me on this, but I have failed to get away with this due to your astute thought process and sharp critical thinking skills. I will read the first two pages now, as I am Town, and would like to help the Town.

-Thilbert

[Hectic]

I'm back. Not sure if I should say this, but someone broke into my house and apprehended Thilbert; they said they were throwing him into mafiascum jail. He said he'd caught up and meta analysed every player in the thread. He was in the middle of telling me his solve for the mafia team when they got him, the bastards.

But I did hear him shriek "nan" on the way out. So he was either screaming for his nan, the poor thing, or telling me Nancy Drew 39 is scum.

VOTE: Nancy Drew 39

-Hectic

[Hectic]

read the first two pages and i think Titus is probably town. dumb play tbh but if she's mafia revealing our neighbourhood doesn't help her mafia team. also her proposal was obviously going to be shot down so i don't think she was trying to make others claim as mafia. hope you liked my catchup i'll be chipping in when Hectic is busy

-Mysterious Stranger

[Hectic]

The gimmick is obvious, Hec, so I don't mind doing it. Seems Mic disagrees though.

I've been given a final warning for signing the post as "Mysterious Stranger", even though he's not part of the team, and now I'm sad.

[Hectic]

I don't, I've only read the first two pages because I've been out with friends. Her name fit my purposes for the joke.

I've been staring at your post for quite a while now, Bob. You know how you know something's off, but you can't put your finger on what that is? Well, your post had that kind of uncanny valley feeling to it, but an hour into my scrutiny, I got it.
There's no typos in that post.

VOTE: Bob

[Hectic]

Pretty suspicious, right? If on average you make 8 typos per post, and you correct two on average for every double check, that would mean you double checked that post 4 times.
Double check × double check × double check × double check = a

sixteenble check

Checking a post 16 times seems a little excessive, doesn't it, Bob? What exactly are you hiding?

[Hectic]

I can't do the gimmick anyway now; it's been shot down by the mafiascum police. Also, that's not really a reason to say I'm scum. VOTE: Pine

I'll be V/LA until Monday, but I'll make a special exception for this game on Sunday, because you all seem like wonderful people and I wouldn't want to let any of you down. @mod: V/LA until 06/01.

[Hectic]

You guys are doing great.

[Hectic]

Yea, but on a scale of 1 to 100, how much greater am

I

doing?

Knowing you, 110.

[Hectic]

Hi, Nancy, are you related to Doctor Drew?

I'm V/LA until Monday in case you missed that; I was being serious when I said I've only read the first two pages.
I'll come and obvtown my slot real quick when I'm back so you don't need to worry.

Oh

whoops

, I just dropped my

stethoscope

, how clumsy of me! I guess I'll retreat into my

consulting room

, and consult my

Drew

.
(hint hint)

[Hectic]

I'll be catching up later today.
@Nancy: What's up with suddenly declaring I'm town and then voting me straight after I'd garnered some votes? What changed your mind? The reason I've been unengaged is because I haven't read up yet. I don't believe I'm being any less friendly than I usually am.
@Pine: How am I drawing out a doctor claim when it's been confirmed that I'm a neighbour?

[Hectic]

Remind me where have I played with you before, Amrun.

[Hectic]

Thoughts:

-I initially townread Titus for clumsily revealing our hood, but on second thought, she'd have to have missed the fact that we can reveal hoods before being lynched, to prevent scum shenanigans, and confirming the phone operator and doctor as ICs is worse on day 1 rather than day 3. Also, how doctor can protect confirmed town if we happen to lynch a scum which makes their town neighbour confirmed. We don't want them to be easy nightkills for scum. The scum motivation to outing the hood is doing so to get townread for having a strong misinformed opinion I suppose? I don't think scum!her thinks her anti-town idea will actually pick up steam, so she only proposes it as scum if she thinks people will TR her for proposing an anti-town idea which she's less likely to push as scum.
-SS (Aa) is being sensible.
-Nancy being so careful with votes and unvoting I don't like. Why not leave the vote on when they're not likely to being lynched? Reason I think this could be scum-indicative is because scum want to appear cautious and not make enemies. Any metareads on Nancy would be insightful.
-I don't like Pine's 51. I assumed his RVS first post was a joke, so clarifying here seems unnecessary/a little cautious?
-Note: The Phone Operator is also an IC when they reveal, since they can confirm they have access to all neighbourhoods by referencing specific things from each of them.
-I picked this setup because it sounded like the most fun one.
-Titus' stubbornness is strange. Particularly 100. I feel it's been well explained how it's inoptimal to follow Titus' plan rather than Elsa's and SS' which are superior, so her saying "I'm outvoted" rather than agreeing the other plans are superior is strange. I think Town!Titus would've realised the superiority of the other plan by now.
-107: Why scum in particular? Lolhammers come more often from town. This is probably semantics and NAI.
-Liking Elsa Jay for his "townslip" and 145
-178: Surprised at this, hard null for me so far. Are you townreading him for how carefree he is?
-I find myself agreeing with the reads on 197. Thinking Krazy is obvtown but not a strong townread is weird, and don't agree with the read on Titus.
-127 and 192 are bad, but I'm thinking I might be biased against Pine knowing what comes from him later.
-Sigh, do I regard 201 as a townslip? In general, I do feel that townslips are real 80%+ of the time, so slightly town-indicative I guess.
-208: She's telling us what one of her team members think. "That feels like a way to shift responsibility off your own reads." - I don't like this from NaCl.


Aaand I'm all caught up to my first post of the game. I'll pick up where I left off later.

[Hectic]

Do you mean a lot of it is about Titus? It's the thing I most disagreed with since the consensus opinion was settling on Titus town, so more reason to argue/talk about it.

[Hectic]

-Note: The Phone Operator is also an IC when they reveal, since they can confirm they have access to all neighbourhoods by referencing specific things from each of them.
-I picked this setup because it sounded like the most fun one.

> "I picked this setup because it sounded the most fun"
> Immediately gets an important part of the setup completely wrong

Ah, right.......
I got confused with mentalist mafia if that was what it was called where a mentalist could read everyone's PTs. Ignore me.

[Hectic]

Do you mean a lot of it is about Titus? It's the thing I most disagreed with since the consensus opinion was settling on Titus town, so more reason to argue/talk about it.

What specifically changed your mind? You had town vibes because I felt genuine before you left. Now I don't.

What is your pops read?

Because I thought it was stupid for scum!you to push this anti-town strat and that outing our hood does not benefit your scum team because you learn no new info, and I thought you were misguided. But then I realised all the reasons why it should be obvious the strat isn't good, which makes it slightly more likely you're fabricating the push for the strat.

I'll look in to pops now.

[Hectic]

Hopkirk thinks if you've got a breaking strat or idea, you post about it in your neighbourhood first to see if your neighbour points out any obvious problems. Too trigger happy and a little LAMIST.

I kinda agree.

[Hectic]

But then again, Hopkirk thinks there's very little incentive for scum!Titus to make that play in the first place. No info gained.

Though, I think the incentive could be getting townread for a misguided push.

[Hectic]

Hopkirk thinks if you've got a breaking strat or idea, you post about it in your neighbourhood first to see if your neighbour points out any obvious problems. Too trigger happy and a little LAMIST.

I kinda agree.

Gee, tell the person that has high odds of being scum your breaking plan first.

That's true, but how about posting it in thread as an idea without outing your neighbour?

Also, you now have an excuse for not getting nightkilled since you're a confirmed neighbour, which is another incentive.

[Hectic]

Hopkirk says I'm doing my towntell hard. Just saying.

I fundamentally disagree that I have a towntell though.

[Hectic]

Gee, tell the person you want to sort something that might help you sort them.

You talking to me or Titus?

[Hectic]

I like pops, but I always like pops.
@pops: Why does it feel like SS is mimicking his town meta? I didn't notice you specify the subtle differences, if they exist.

[Hectic]

I really dislike Pine btw. I haven't fully caught up but I want to skip ahead and talk about his. He scumreads me for joking around. Some others like pops mention it's NAI for me.

@Pine: How am I drawing out a doctor claim when it's been confirmed that I'm a neighbour?

Right here:

Oh

whoops

, I just dropped my

stethoscope

, how clumsy of me! I guess I'll retreat into my

consulting room

, and consult my

Drew

.
(hint hint)

Here, obviously. The "hint hint" especially has no function from a Town perspective, but could very easily be intended to draw out a Doctor who isn't close-reading to say "aha! I counterclaim!"

Just because it's clumsy doesn't make it not scummy. And if you're Town just dicking around, then you should be ashamed of yourself and knock it the fuck off. This is Team Mafia, not some random Mini you joined on a lark.

And then he thinks I'm drawing a doc claim out while I'm a neighbour. I mention this to him and I really don't believe he thinks I actually thought I could out a doctor who wasn't paying attention and forgot I was a confirmed neighbour. It was literally the 5th post of the game where Titus claims we're neighbours, and much of the discussion after is regarding that. No doc is going to counterclaim that obvious joke.
Also, I'm not going to change how I play to appease you, stop being a negative Nancy (no offence, Nancy - I love you).

[Hectic]

@Nancy: What's up with suddenly declaring I'm town and then voting me straight after I'd garnered some votes? What changed your mind? The reason I've been unengaged is because I haven't read up yet. I don't believe I'm being any less friendly than I usually am.

Did you answer this, Nancy?

[Hectic]

I'll be catching up later today.
@Nancy: What's up with suddenly declaring I'm town and then voting me straight after I'd garnered some votes? What changed your mind? The reason I've been unengaged is because I haven't read up yet. I don't believe I'm being any less friendly than I usually am.
@Pine: How am I drawing out a doctor claim when it's been confirmed that I'm a neighbour?

I was sheeping Piss based on not liking your tone but I haven’t caught up yet.

Hmm, so why did you declare I was town earlier?

[Hectic]

But you’re wrongly reading me here. Why did you direct that stethoscope post to me in particular? Like you obviously can’t be the doc, so why make that post?

No particular reason, I was just joking around.

[Hectic]

UNVOTE:

Hectic is town. Get your votes off of him.

Here I thought you thought I was a doc softing.

No wait. I’m confused now.

Here I thought you realised I was a nieghbour, so I can't be doc.

No wait. I’m confused now.

But he’s town.

VOTE: Eddie

Back on Eddie for now - not interested in voting Hectic any longer.

So I was confused when you made this post, since I thought it was for other reasons.

[Hectic]

I thought you were PR softing but then I thought maybe you were just trying to out the doc.

So at what point did you realise I wasn't PR softing? What were you confused about otherwise there?

[Hectic]

UNVOTE:

Hectic is town. Get your votes off of him.

Here I thought you thought I was a doc softing.

No wait. I’m confused now.

Here I thought you realised I was a nieghbour, so I can't be doc.

No wait. I’m confused now.

But he’s town.

VOTE: Eddie

Back on Eddie for now - not interested in voting Hectic any longer.

So I was confused when you made this post, since I thought it was for other reasons.

Can you tell me why you made that post - the stethoscope one?

There's no secret calculated reason, Nancy. I was just

memeing

as they call it nowadays.

When you called me town, did you still think I was a PR softing? If so, what were you confused about in the post preceding that one?

[Hectic]

I thought you outed PR, doc specifically but then I remembered that you obviously couldn’t be doc, because of Titus.

"When you called me town, did you still think I was a PR softing? If so, what were you confused about in the post preceding that one?" - What about this, Nancy?

[Hectic]

Hi, Nancy, are you related to Doctor Drew?

I'm V/LA until Monday in case you missed that; I was being serious when I said I've only read the first two pages.
I'll come and obvtown my slot real quick when I'm back so you don't need to worry.

Oh

whoops

, I just dropped my

stethoscope

, how clumsy of me! I guess I'll retreat into my

consulting room

, and consult my

Drew

.
(hint hint)

No, why?

UNVOTE:

UNVOTE:

Hectic is town. Get your votes off of him.

No wait. I’m confused now.

No wait. I’m confused now.

But he’s town.

VOTE: Eddie

Back on Eddie for now - not interested in voting Hectic any longer.

i do not tr heck. yu do?

I thought he was trying fake PR but he could I suppose be doing to doc hunt? So, you maybe right.

@Nancy: In your posts here, you seem to think I'm softing PR at first, but then realise I can't be doc in post 582. So why are you still of the opinion that I'm town in 584? The reason I want to hear about this is because I believe it could be an inconsistent thought process which would be scum-indicative.

[Hectic]

@Nancy: Ah, I didn't realise you explaining your thought process would out you're not the doc, good point. I'm not trying to PR hunt, I just genuinely thought that the order of those posts were strange and think it might have been scum-indicative based on inconsistent thought process. Now that you've confirmed you're a neighbour, mind answering the question?

[Hectic]

And I don’t remember who it was who said this but how is it even remotely NAI for Hectic to be “antitown”. He has been clearly pro-town in every single game I’ve played with him.

I don't think it's antitown IMO. It should be obvious to any competent scum team (which should be any possible combination here) that you weren't the doc based off your reaction there, if you're town.

[Hectic]

@Nancy: Ah, I didn't realise you explaining your thought process would out you're not the doc, good point. I'm not trying to PR hunt, I just genuinely thought that the order of those posts were strange and think it might have been scum-indicative based on inconsistent thought process. Now that you've confirmed you're a neighbour, mind answering the question?

Yes, and that’s your fucking fault! I clearly didn’t want to do that. You didn’t tell me how my risking possibly outing the PO is protown yet. I’m not responding to another word until you convince me of that.

Yeah, if you're town, it's my fault. Possibly outing the PR is not protown, but we know that we're both neighbours now, so elaborating on your thought process now won't out anything else I believe.

And I don’t remember who it was who said this but how is it even remotely NAI for Hectic to be “antitown”. He has been clearly pro-town in every single game I’ve played with him.

I don't think it's antitown IMO. It should be obvious to any competent scum team (which should be any possible combination here) that you weren't the doc based off your reaction there, if you're town.

So why tf are you still even doubting that? Since when is town!you ever this dense?

Doubting what? You had a strange order of reactions which I've explained. You're either town and your thought process will explain that, which is why I'm asking for it, or you're scum which is why it's inconsistent. If I'm missing something here and risk outing a PR by having this discussion, please let me know, because I'm clearly missing something here.

[Hectic]

Yes Hectic, it definitely is your fault because of that dumb gimmick post. And the fact that you’re not even acknowledging how extremely antitown that was and refusing to take any responsibility for it at all is concerning.

I already told you, if you don’t convince me on how possibly risking outing the PO is protown. I’m not freaking answering you. If you could clearly tell I wasn’t the doc based off of my reaction then why tf are you still pursuing this?

And just to make this crystal clear to you:

If you don’t convince me on how possibly risking outing PR is protown, I’m not answering your question.

So do that or stop asking.

I've taken responsibility; I admit that was my fault if you're town, and I can't convince you that was a pro-town post... because it wasn't.

@everyone: Am I wasting my time, or could someone else ask Nancy the question if they think there's merit to this? I'm unsure yet if her stubbornness to not answer the question is genuine frustration, or if I'm onto something and she doesn't want to explain herself. I need a fifth opinion.

[Hectic]

Are you scum here or seriously being this dense? Are you not fucking reading my posts or what? I said, fucking convince me that risking possibly outing freaking PR is protown! God!

I don't understand how explaining your thought process will risk outing another PR. Whatever, I'm getting nowhere with this.

[Hectic]

Absolutely. Oak is superior.

VOTE: Pine

[Hectic]

why pine again?

Same reasons as before. I do need to read pages 11 to 24, and I'll get to that tomorrow.

[Hectic]

Nancy, I have been a little unhappy irl recently. I try not to let real life affect my emotions here, but maybe it leaked into my interaction with you? I'm not sure how though because I was just trying to stay level headed and reasonable. My lack of engagement before was because I hadn't read the game until yesterday.
But since you've somehow gauged that and are scumreading me for it, please don't. I'm not asking you to townread me for this, I just want you to consider it NAI. Also, vote Pine with me if you scumread him too.

I've realised I shouldn't force myself to play if I'm feeling down so I'll be back tomorrow after hopefully a good night of sleep.

[Hectic]

One more thing, I do agree with pops' reasons for scumreading Eddie. He outed them to prove a point rather than productive reasons, that's a scum mindset where he wants to be correct about everything, but being correct does not equal being town.

[Hectic]

Scumread when I joke around, and scumread when I post seriously. There's no winning in this game and I don't have much motivation to play. But here's a reads lsot from the top of my head (mobile posting)
Pine - scum: Scumread me early on for NAI things, and since then has talked about me being scum while talking about teams and wolves, yet not stated any reasons for me being scum.
Nancy - townlean: The only scum pings I got from her were during those whole doctor shenanigans but if she speaks the truth in that she never takes emotions, then it's NAI.
Okapoka: Townread
SS: Townread
Eddie: Scumlean based off pops' logic
Pops: Townlean, logical posts through the game. Her reaction seemed genuine when Eddie outed the hood
DDL: Scumlean - haven't liked his content this game, and vote hopping onto me
Titus: scumlean - reasons I've specified already and being okay with a flip 9 days early is ???
Elsa Jay - neutral: I don't remember much but he seemed alright? The attempted hammer is NAI because he admitted to it when it wasn't obvious he actually thought that would be a hammer

That's everyone I remember right now.

[Hectic]

VOTE: DDL

[Hectic]

I'll be on today though. I ISOed both Eddie and DDL and Eddie's other contributions have actually been decent, hence the DDL vote.
Just give me a call if you're interested in Pine or have a dayvig for sale though.

[Hectic]

OK, so I forgot a LOT of people in my reads list. Bob is being extra robotty and hasn't OMGUSed this game, but only I've voted for him iirc, and that was an obvious joke vote. When we gonna see your famed VCA, Bob? Amrun is a gut scum but not really sure why.

[Hectic]

What does that mean? It's the people who came to mind.

[Hectic]

What, you mean scumreading 3 people on my wagon and townreading most people off? Just how it turned out, I try not to be OMGUSey; the wagon wasn't in my mind when I was making the reads list.

[Hectic]

For people who think I'm memeing less than normal, please note the final warning I received for the memeing. My gimmick this game was going to be signing my posts from random people and playing those personas per post, but that got shot down so what can you do.

[Hectic]

Like, half the town are scumreading me for it, and the other half are saying I'm "ruining" Team Mafia by doing it. Make your minds up.

[Hectic]

Like, half the town are scumreading me for it, and the other half are saying I'm "ruining" Team Mafia by doing it. Make your minds up.

Like, half the town are scumreading me for not memeing, and the other half are saying I'm "ruining" Team Mafia by doing it. Make your minds up.

Clarification.

[Hectic]

What does that mean? It's the people who came to mind.

You’re throwing up scumreads on controversial people who aren’t going to change their minds on you and trying to appeal to those who might be swayed. I mean, credit for effort, but a successful attempt would include reasoning and maybe a false positive or two. Condemn someone who thinks you’re Town, that sort of thing. A no-effort jury management...nah.

Lul, I'm just being honest with what my reads are. I can elaborate on my townreads if you want me to, specifically on SS or OkaPoka, I'm not just making these up to "jury-manipulate". The confidence with how you're talking about me being scum here is really irking me.

"credit for effort"? - I mean come on, dude, there's no way you're this confident I'm scum. You basically locked me as scum from my first few posts of the game, and I don't buy it.

[Hectic]

You’re throwing up scumreads on controversial people who aren’t going to change their minds on you and trying to appeal to those who might be swayed.

That post didn't try to appeal to any specific player.

Also, isn't it true the other way around? I could appeal to people on wagon to try and sway their votes, since people off my wagon are less likely to matter.

And it's false anyway, I'm townleaning Nancy who says she'll probably end up voting me anyway, and townreading Oka who's on my wagon, and Elsa is "fine", and he's on my wagon.

[Hectic]

VOTE: Pine
Multiple people have said this could be scum, but haven't taken action. Vote him if you think he's scum.

[Hectic]

What does that mean? It's the people who came to mind.

You’re throwing up scumreads on controversial people who aren’t going to change their minds on you and trying to appeal to those who might be swayed. I mean, credit for effort, but a successful attempt would include reasoning and maybe a false positive or two. Condemn someone who thinks you’re Town, that sort of thing. A no-effort jury management...nah.

Lul, I'm just being honest with what my reads are. I can elaborate on my townreads if you want me to, specifically on SS or OkaPoka, I'm not just making these up to "jury-manipulate". The confidence with how you're talking about me being scum here is really irking me.

"credit for effort"? - I mean come on, dude, there's no way you're this confident I'm scum. You basically locked me as scum from my first few posts of the game, and I don't buy it.

Also, he scumread me early because he saw me as an easy push for my memeing, and claimed to scumread me for trying to out the doc when clearly that can't have been the case.

[Hectic]

See, here's the problem.

Now I feel like Hectic is under enough pressure that his posts are going to be nervous and forced, regardless of his alignment. I agree that the readlist looked forced, I don't agree that it looked political, and I think it's definitely something a townie of Hectic's experience level might produce under serious pressure. (Terseness is actually a towntell there.)

You're right, I do feel nervous here because no one wants to be mislynched day 1 in team mafia, but I'm trying to be as transparent as possible to fix that.

[Hectic]

I unbelieve him

Why though?

[Hectic]

The time to 'read as genuine' is when he isn't the focal point. he's done this multiple times so far.

I sr his play here in this game, his reputation for being mislynched notwithstanding

I don't have a rep for being mislynched actually. I've only been mislynched once in ~20 games including alts.

I was the focal point from the moment I started reading the game, because I was being scumread for joking around before I even caught up...

[Hectic]

Yeah, I probably would be less present if voted less, but people really need to stop associating defensiveness and survivalist nature with being scum, most town don't want to be mislynched just as much as scum don't want to be lynched.

Though, I do have reasons for being less present earlier, because I was V/LA.

[Hectic]

Yeah, I probably would be less present if voted less, but people really need to stop associating defensiveness and survivalist nature with being scum, most town don't want to be mislynched just as much as scum don't want to be lynched.

Though, I do have reasons for being less present earlier, because I was V/LA.

This depends on the player though. I have bad case of acting survivalistic and putting more effort in when people start scumreading me.

[Hectic]

like NDs unvote after i unvoted, your contribution, more elsa talk, wagon comp, etc

and who, if anyone, is the competing wagon

Isn't the lack of a competing wagon a bad thing?

Yeah, I probably would be less present if voted less, but people really need to stop associating defensiveness and survivalist nature with being scum, most town don't want to be mislynched just as much as scum don't want to be lynched.

Though, I do have reasons for being less present earlier, because I was V/LA.

This depends on the player though. I have bad case of acting survivalistic and putting more effort in when people start scumreading me.

survivalism isn't scummy in itself.

people lack the experience to differentiate between what scum can do and do do.

tbh i find doodles to be a loe hanging fruit rn, and the pine case underwhelming

Yeah, so why are you scumreading me for suddenly being present when pressured? That's not scum-indicative. And what do you find underwhelming about the Pine case? He's been hardpushing a scum!me agenda without giving good reasons imo, and do you really think town!him would believe I was doc PR fishing with that joke post I had earlier? Nah.

[Hectic]

Isn't the lack of a competing wagon a bad thing?

i chalk it up to site meta being weaker than it should be more than this one game.

Afa pine, i mean aren't i pushing a scum!you agenda?

You're scumreading me for personality reasons apparently which I guess I can understand, and which half the game seems to be doing, but do you wanna elaborate on that actually? In regards to Pine, he's scumreading me for reasons I doubt he believes to be legitimate, the PR fishing for one. And he put me as a scumread for trolling/memeing, and I think he viewed me as an easy push right from my entrance. Also, thinks I'm being political with my reads list, though I do get that a little more but don't think it's entirely true either. Eh, actually, I can understand the political thing based on scumreading 3/5 people on and townread most off so I'll regard that as NAI.

[Hectic]

@Pine: what do you think of Hectic as a scum player? Is he competent?

I don't have any scum data on this site unfortunately. I have 1 offsite however.

[Hectic]

let's bury that right now.
unless youre claiming doc, youre fake crumbing. agree or no

Dude he was already outted as a neighbor

Exactly. Obviously I can't have been crumbing as doc because I was confirmed neighbour. And Pine's logic in his post was he thinks I was "trying to out a doc into counterclaiming who might not have been paying enough attention to the thread to realise Hectic was outed neighbour"

Town!Pine has to make two bad conclusions to write that:
-Conclude my post wasn't OBVIOUSLY a joke and that a sane player might see that as claiming doc
-Conclude someone doesn't remember I'm an outed neighbour despite Titus and I being neighbours was the focal point of discussion early in the game

[Hectic]

Watching Hectic get moderator'd and pressured into playing seriously is like watching the sad look on Mr. Incredible's face when he works his desk job after the government bans heroism all these feels

FeelsBad
Don't worry, I'm bring 10 new gambits and 2 new gimmicks to the table for day 2. I just don't want to be mislynched day 1.

[Hectic]

Yeah, Hectic is definitely the lynch today. Gut feeling, he's trying to draw out the real Doc.

This is the post. I'm definitely the lynch on that logic@ (I'm gonna give up on finding where the question mark is on my keyboard, my layout switched to German)

[Hectic]

I mean, look at that scummy as fuck wagon on OkaPoka. I maintain that {Krazy, NaCl, Hectic} is an entirely plausible team

Isn't that a little too transparent for a day 1 counterwagon if we were all scum? Also, why would my hypothetical partners push OkaPoka who's been generally town imo and is push harder to actually push?

[Hectic]

Xtoxm is particularly against lynching Hectic, thinks he’s a mislynch. He’s Townreading Amrun, S_S, Hectic, Pops, and “probably” Nancy

PE: Site meta has gotten to the point where scum can pretty easily get away with being transparent for exactly that reason.

Okay. Say we tabled your lynch for now, Hectic. Who should we be voting and why?

Could you address my reasons I have for scumreading you? You've just ignored them the whole game.

Other than you, I dislike Titus, DDL, and Eddie off the top of my head. Let me ISO some more and I'll get back to you with an answer.

[Hectic]

I don't really like Pine's progression on the Hectic slot, it seems to track poorly with the quality of Hectic's responses. He shouldn't need teammates' help to be deductive instead of inductive.

the worst told me those buzzwords 1 time and now my brain can't stop using them

You should vote pine then :>

He’s not providing content.

So that's your real issue, and memeing has nothing to do with it.

Why did you mention memeing as though you thought it was a problem?

Exactly! A wagon on Pine please.

[Hectic]

I mean, DDL has basically no content, and that sheep on pops isn't great. He scumread me for "not remembering anything I'd posted" so that's a terrible vote. Nothing much I can find that's alignment-indicative other than that actually. I've only played one game with him where he was scum and lurked very similar to this, but I'm assuming he does this as town too as he claims? Easy lie to catch out if not and someone should speak up if that's the case,

[Hectic]

If Pine's just pushing an easy mislynch, why wouldn't he push me harder earlier? Second, why would he need an out?

I'm not a fan of this desperate effort to save Hectic.

Effort by whom?

[Hectic]

Site meta has gotten to the point where scum can pretty easily get away with being transparent for exactly that reason.

Occasionally, yes. If they did it too much, the meta would shift back.

Agree, and this is TOO transparent. Also, wouldn't it be more productive for those 2 if they were my scum buddies to vote someone else who already has a vote? 3 votes makes a much better wagon than 2.

[Hectic]

Just FYI Eddie, I'm not scumreading you for any reasons other than you outing yourself and pops' logic on you trying to be right and prove a point by doing something anti-town is scum-indicative. Wouldn't call a scumlean tunnelling.

[Hectic]

I'll be back in a bit. Need to ISO NaCl to see what this fuss is all about.

[Hectic]

@Amrun: I do townread Pops. Her reaction to Eddie outing seemed genuine and I agree with her reasoning on that scumread. Also, her not engaging Eddie because she's of the belief neighbourhoods are where scum pocket townies is town-indicative. If she's of that belief, scum!her should be posting and pocketing Eddie there rather than passing up that opportunity.

[Hectic]

And memeing IS a problem. It’s counterproductive as Town and often used as cover for low content by scum

It's also a way to have fun. You can meme while playing mafia and it not be a problem.

[Hectic]

I ISOed NaCl. I disliked his dislike for Eddie based on the vacation and posting for the sake of posting things. I liked his comments on my wagon and the comment on the doc crumb thing and resulting conversation with Nancy.

@NaCl: "I think Hectic's posts haven't been too great but there are times where I see a move that I think scum-Hectic would make but Hectic is specifically not making those actions." - can you specify what kind of scum moves you thought I would make but didn't make?

I think I missed where he flipped a read based on his teammate's opinions or something like that. Can someone link me to that post?

[Hectic]

This is a bad wagon with a bad comp. it stinks.

Hmm

Pine why does two votes on me suggest hectic scum?

It doesn’t on its own. It’s evidence of counterwagoning.

VOTE: NaCl

VOTE: nacl

VOTE: nacl

I don't think heck survives the game, tbfrank.

Ok with NaCl wagon too.

I don't think Amrun is town in this game of mafia

This is kind of weird. What do you think of the comp of this wagon, Amrun?

[Hectic]

Xtoxm is particularly against lynching Hectic, thinks he’s a mislynch. He’s Townreading Amrun, S_S, Hectic, Pops, and “probably” Nancy

PE: Site meta has gotten to the point where scum can pretty easily get away with being transparent for exactly that reason.

Okay. Say we tabled your lynch for now, Hectic. Who should we be voting and why?

Could you address my reasons I have for scumreading you? You've just ignored them the whole game.

Other than you, I dislike Titus, DDL, and Eddie off the top of my head. Let me ISO some more and I'll get back to you with an answer.

Afaik you don’t have any reasons beyond OMGUS

Sigh. What about 1119 or 679? That's my main issue with you.

[Hectic]

Wow, my reads are changing a lot.

@Hectic idr who your team is but area they falling this game

@SS Your reads are very different to mine so I need an update with some reasons please

@Pine If you are, stop

@Nancy and I mean this nicely, I have seen you be 100% Sure scum is town, as town. And town is not what my team necessarily reads you as, though it is trending a bit that way. Do you have a consistent track record reading Krazy? Because some members of my team disagree with that read, as well as your Pops one. You have done some things my team thinks is very townie and some very scummy, so I need more.

@Hectic you said most of my content is good other than my pops response. Can you expan do that? The way you are sheeping Pops is not ever a S/S interaction I believe, and I do not like the content from either of you. I am talking to Pops a lot in the hood, but I need to find you in thread if you're town. And more importantly, I need you to not be a potential mislynch vote on me because I really don't like getting lynhched.

@Oka I need you to do a reads list please. Losing faith.

Idk, you feel very loose and genuine from looking through your ISO. I think I've been playing too much forum mafia today because it's getting harder and harder to read posts and actually take in what they're saying. How you feeling about Pops from your discussion with her in the neighbourhood?

[Hectic]

UNVOTE:

Why the unvote?

[Hectic]

Back on catchup again, huh.

Ad a birthdat present, someone give me a summary plz.

So close to meme replying to this, but I'll refrain, you sons of guns.

[Hectic]

@Hectic: Can you specify? Because I think I’ve answered that extensively. Did you want something else than what I’ve already said?

Oh, I'll go back and check.

[Hectic]

Yeah, nvm, you addressed it.

[Hectic]

VOTE: pisskop

probably the easiest flex pick for multiple solves while still pursuing my top solve

I don't understand how you're pursuing solves on day 1; we literally have no flips. Lynching scum is hard enough on day 1, I don't see how you can ever reliably solve on day 1.

[Hectic]

Though, I've seen several others do that too so maybe that's the site meta. I'd like to see proof of someone actually solving correctly on day 1 though.

[Hectic]

VOTE: pisskop

probably the easiest flex pick for multiple solves while still pursuing my top solve

I don't understand how you're pursuing solves on day 1; we literally have no flips. Lynching scum is hard enough on day 1, I don't see how you can ever reliably solve on day 1.

Speaking of, Pine had already decided on Krazy and me as the scumteam, solely based on my obvtown read on him. Since Pine had no reason to think I was in a hood att and hasn’t yet any reason to think Krazy was in one, why would he have thought scum!me would locktown Krazy? That still makes absolutely no sense to me.

Agree, similar to how he was reading me as scum with the two people who were lone pushing the OkaPoka wagon. I'd understand more if the solves had some sense to them, but those really don't.

[Hectic]

@Pine: what do you think of Hectic as a scum player? Is he competent?

I don't have any scum data on this site unfortunately. I have 1 offsite however.

Ok, thanks for that info - Pine, please change my question to what do you think of Hectic as a player in general? Is he competent?

He’s competent enough that I don’t accept memeing in TM2020 from him.

I need to consult with my team, they think I’m out on a limb here and Hectic’s posting this afternoon has been better.

As for the lack of a counterwagon, that isn’t for lack of trying - there have been pushes on several people so far, they just haven’t taken hold.

I don't understand this btw. I've played once with Pine where he lurked it out as town and did nothing until he was replaced. I don't think I have any other meta with you, so what are you basing this competent-read from?

[Hectic]

1063 really bothered me because he was clearly unhappy and that Piss and I unvoted. He really wanted your lynch to go through right there and then, despite having plenty of time still left.

Yeah, I was really annoyed to see that both from Titus and Pine.

[Hectic]

Specifically when you were trying to press Nancy for an answer to your question and getting scumread by her for it, I don't see why you didn't just stop (I still think you were wrong on it since it might out the PR). Because you didn't have to keep asking the question and the fact that you continued to press it despite it being unpopular felt like you were tunnelling on trying to get your answer more than you cared about how you looked to her. I think that if you were scum you would have admitted to your mistake or otherwise backed off.

I see, this makes sense actually.

[Hectic]

Nice, NaCl is town.

Agree, I like the logic in that post.

@NaCl: What do you dislike about my Pops townread?

[Hectic]

but also the way I see it there is very little value for me to just be completely transparent and sharing all my notes at every stage of the game because

1) my reputation of scumhunting is mediocre at best
2) I am pretty much a utr so I don't need to bother with proving myself as town

so the gain of me outting my reads is that it can
1) reassure everyone that im townie i guess
2) have notes that other people can work off of

the loss is
1) i don't get to be a spooky wildcard
2) i am more susceptible to being lead to the wrong place

We don't have to follow your reads though. Without posting your reads, your UTR (though I thought 2 people were voting you?) might dip back to null so might as well prevent that from happening.

[Hectic]

but also the way I see it there is very little value for me to just be completely transparent and sharing all my notes at every stage of the game because

1) my reputation of scumhunting is mediocre at best
2) I am pretty much a utr so I don't need to bother with proving myself as town

so the gain of me outting my reads is that it can
1) reassure everyone that im townie i guess
2) have notes that other people can work off of

the loss is
1) i don't get to be a spooky wildcard
2) i am more susceptible to being lead to the wrong place

We don't have to follow your reads though. Without posting your reads, your UTR (though I thought 2 people were voting you?) might dip back to null so might as well prevent that from happening.

yeah i mean im not forcing anyone to follow my lead so?

so no harm in being completely transparent and sharing all your reads is what I mean.

[Hectic]

your underestimating how valuable it is for scum to get townread by utrs and how easy it is to get townread as scum by mirroring thoughts without coming off as overly buddying

and how easy it is for scum to lead townies to bad lynches by pushing tasty teams

That's fair.

[Hectic]

maybe we take the easy way out and lynch ddl

tempting

[Hectic]

that's a bad idea buddy

Oi, you're voting me, aren't you? I'm not your buddy, pal.

[Hectic]

I'm not your guy, friend.

[Hectic]

i'd expect a lot of more mechanism play from town S_S that I'm not seeing here. He's playing a passive game but it's a scum passive play

Huh, Pops had a similar read there iirc. Do you think there's many mechanics to discuss here on day 1? I think we came to the agreement that doctor can out to be an IC, and should delay doing that as long as possible, and obviously flipping scum means the neighbour is town, so people should out neighbourhoods right before being lynched (which SS actually proposed).

[Hectic]

EC what's your thoughts on SS's readlist? The one where Pine wasnt sure of whether he posted front back and back front

Is this a riddle? Who's EC? Are you shortening my name from Hectic to EC? Seems like a strange set of letters to grab from the name and I'm kinda scumleaning you for it.

[Hectic]

EC is eddie cane

Ah. Kinda scary how you replied to that in less than 5 seconds.

[Hectic]

If Hectic flips town, I’m townlocking SS. I think he’s town in either case though.

Strange read, because he's been soft defending me this game? Why can't he be scum staying off a town wagon?

[Hectic]

I mean I'm way more nervous as scum so maybe that's part of it.

Are you nervous right now?

[Hectic]

I thought it was strange because if SS is scum, I could see him staying off a town wagon which he doesn't want to be associated with but thinks will be the lynch at day end even if he soft defends it. The way how Pine and Titus were declaring how they wanted my flip then, it wouldn't surprise me if scum!SS thought he could defend me with me still being lynched anyway.

[Hectic]

Not that I think SS is scum, but it's not a reason I'd use to townread him for is what I mean.

[Hectic]

I thought it was strange because if SS is scum, I could see him staying off a town wagon which he doesn't want to be associated with but thinks will be the lynch at day end even if he soft defends it. The way how Pine and Titus were declaring how they wanted my flip then, it wouldn't surprise me if scum!SS thought he could defend me with me still being lynched anyway.

Nah because it was very clearly a hard defend on you. He was adamant about opposing your wagon and especially after you were at L - 1, so he was clearly trying to stop your lynch, rather than getting towncred.

Ah OK, maybe I missed him doing that since I kinda skimmed all those shenanigans when I came on earlier today and saw my wagon.

[Hectic]

Are you nervous right now?

...no?

@Hectic, why are you asking him this?

Like seriously, how exactly would you expect him to respond to this?

With "...no?" actually, so he passed the test. (Idk, it was an ask first and think later kind of question).

[Hectic]

Hectic, srs bsns questions. Mad Max: Fury Road or Road Warrior? Fallout or Last of Us? Imagine Dragons or Iron Maiden? These are essential to me understanding your alignment

Woah, I missed these.
1) Mad Max: Fury Road was great, road warrior is on my watchlist
2) Fallout 3 was great, New Vegas was phenomenal, 4 was good (everyone knows the issues). But the Last of Us was a masterpiece.
3) Imagine Dragons

Hope I'm locktown now.

[Hectic]

Are you nervous right now?

...no?

@Hectic, why are you asking him this?

Like seriously, how exactly would you expect him to respond to this?

With "...no?" actually, so he passed the test. (Idk, it was an ask first and think later kind of question).

What else would he answer? “Yes, I’m practically shaking in my boots now”?

Lul, maybe. Scum are more careful with their key presses, and cautiousness and precision in regards to their keyboard is a classic scumtell. I was watching SS' keyboard

very

carefully, and I can confirm those dots were typed out in a very

lax

and

carefree

manner.

[Hectic]

@Titus: What do you think of NaCl's most recent post?

[Hectic]

So I went from almost quickhammering Hectic to being the only vote on him. Huh.

I missed the part where he became town, forgive me. But as a heads up, I'm claiming intent next time if I'm off the wagon. Sad I didn't get a quickhammer though.

Hectic didn't become town. Scum shaded pine so ppl got cold feet.

Huh? Who's scum with me shading Pine?

[Hectic]

what's your read of me?

So are you discounting their votes or not thinking about their reasoning? idk I'm not sure why your wagon wouldn't be on your mind given your alignment is the one thing you theoretically know right?

Leaning town, haven't seen anything outrageous from you and I've agreed with most your reads and thought process.

I did think about reasoning, but I didn't remember exactly who was on my wagon when I made the reads list is what I meant I guess. For example, I disliked Pine's reasoning most for voting me.

[Hectic]

Nice.

[Hectic]

@Titus, why are so so confident on Hectic scum? Convince me.

Look at the garbage besides you and Amrun voting Pine. Despite all the slots assisting only Pine picked up I am more agreeable as scum than town.

I don't think so. Pine's town. He's been lock town since then.

Pine's easy to wagon. Hectic took a marathon.

Drunk Titus never votes Pine.

Maybe have another shot at this when you're sober.

[Hectic]

Votecount 1.13

Pine (3) -

Hectic, Amrun, Nancy Drew 39

NaCl (3) -

Pine, pisskop, Titus

Hectic (1) -

Elsa Jay

OkaPoka (1) -

NaCl

Titus (1) -

bob3141

Amrun (1) -

popsofctown

pisskop (1) -

OkaPoka

Something_Smart (1) -

DrDolittle

Not Voting (3) -

Something_Smart, Eddie Cane, Krazy

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

You know, I've been thinking Pine and Titus are scum (individually) for a while, but their votes onto NaCl who I think is pretty townie as a counterwagon to Pine supports a possible team there.

[Hectic]

@Titus, why are so so confident on Hectic scum? Convince me.

Look at the garbage besides you and Amrun voting Pine. Despite all the slots assisting only Pine picked up I am more agreeable as scum than town.

I don't think so. Pine's town. He's been lock town since then.

Pine's easy to wagon. Hectic took a marathon.

Drunk Titus never votes Pine.

Maybe have another shot at this when you're sober.

When I'm sober, I don't give a damn because no one listens to Titus day 1.

Pine's not scum. If you're town, move on.

If he can actually respond to the reasons I have for scumreading him and explain them, maybe I could understand his thought process better. Right now, they make no sense to me.

[Hectic]

How many mentions do I have, Eddie? Not expecting many but curious.

[Hectic]

ANK TOM AND MYSELF ALL DISAGREE

Tom expressed confidence in his read of me?

Not sure how much detail I'm allowed to give, but kind of. He very explicitly does not think you've been towny.

I think you can provide as much detail as you'd like, as long as you don't straight up copy-paste from the thread.

[Hectic]

Is it wrong to townread Eddie for this? I'm kind of townreading Eddie for these mention things.

[Hectic]

If he gets 8 votes and flips red will you be a fan of it?

How am I supposed to take you or your team’s reads seriously if they’re still not reading me accurately?

And Auro, is super confident on Krazy town, as is my neighbour.

Why do you expect to be correctly read by everyone? Do you people usually have a very high accuracy rate of correctly reading you as town?

[Hectic]

Wed probably have just as many mentions if I was scum fwiw. Dunno if tom or ank would really give a shit but I plan like the whole game out from n0 as scum.

Lul, okay.

[Hectic]

Signing off for the night. Today's been fun, I'll try and be as active tomorrow too.

[Hectic]

If you dont like a krazy wagon, an eddie cane wagon is an option! Probably better than nacl or pine tbh.

What? Why would you want to be wagoned?

I agree with you on NaCi. There are two scum in this game, who else is your team sr? Btw, I envy you. I’ve been literally screaming at my team - Pine? Hectic? Who do you think is scum here and no one has said jack so far. :/

Turns out sleep is hard.

Did no one notice this slip? Why'd you think there were two scum, Nancy?

[Hectic]

You're scum game is more meticulous like in the marked for death game. While your town game, like your game here, is filled with emotions, reads that make no sense, and is antagonistic too

Lol why did you have to post scummy shit you arent helping

Why is it scummy?

Townreading someone for having "reads that make no sense" is pretty bad. If you think someone's reads don't make sense, that's usually a good indicator for them being scum, not to townread them.

[Hectic]

I think it should be DDL vs Pine as the leading wagons.

[Hectic]

Jeez, Nancy, I was insinuating it was a townslip, not a scum one...

[Hectic]

As in, you thought there were 2 scum total in the game rather than 3? Or did I misinterpret that post?

[Hectic]

Lul. This is incredible.

[Hectic]

Lul, I'm going for real this time. I'll probably be VCAing in my dreams so I'll report back with the results.

[Hectic]

Ftr, I am strongly townreading Nancy at this point, and do believe the townslip is legitimate. You can consider it scummy if I suddenly flip on that. And if everyone's meta of her is true in that she's less aggressive and more laid back as scum, then this is nothing like that.

[Hectic]

@Titus: Could you please make a case for why I'm scum? I don't think I've seen any legitimate reasons from you yet.

Note to others: Titus and I have a very dysfunctional relationship in our neighbourhood. Yesterday, she just stood outside as Pine stormed in through my front door and coldly declared "Kuribo sends his regards." he then proceeded to piss in my plant pots, before making a swift escape by diving through one of the closed windows, shattering the glass on impact. Titus gave me a dirty look later like somehow all that commotion was

my

fault. Unbelievable.

[Hectic]

@Titus: You mentioned in our hood that I should vote DDL or NaCl if I want to bus. Why have I been calling for a DDL wagon then, and been scumleaning him the entire game? And I just don't get the scumread on NaCl. In fact, if you could explain how you came to the solve of [Hectic, DDL, NaCl], that would be helpful.

[Hectic]

Gamestate and expected value of the buddy.

Usually, I want to buddy somebody for the whole day or for the day. So I either set up somebody to be SRed the next day or just try to pocket them to infinity.

How exactly do you "set up somebody to be scumread"?

[Hectic]

How exactly do you "set up somebody to be scumread"?

???
I debated answering this one.

The safest way is to exploit their already present biases and ask leading questions early. The less safe way is to bus a partner and tie somebody else to them, or to crumb suspicions and false assertions.

Its all about media spin, baby. You take stock of how much influence people have, and plan around it. Most people dont see too far into the future.

Wow, I clearly have a lot to learn.

Hey Pissy, why are you scum this game? /s

[Hectic]

If you are insinuating that it was a townslip, why did you ask the question underlined there?

So my first thought when I say that post was that it was a townslip, but I asked the question so I could get clarification for how Nancy actually came to the incorrect assumption there were 2 mafia, to check for a possible fabrication of a townslip. I'm pretty sure it's a townslip, but do you want to answer this, Nancy?

[Hectic]

I disagree with her read on Eddie. I think she was too quick to go after him over revealing the neighbourhood. I think it's far more likely that Eddie was irritated and revealed it rather than him being too careless and letting it slip. I don't think it's a very good reason to be townreading her and scumreading Eddie.

I do completely agree with her reasoning there though, because I have personal experience of catching scum using that exact same logic where being right is more important than them over figuring out alignments, Eddie's tone and nature this game has reeked of town otherwise though.
Regarding Pops, I initially read her outrage as genuine, but it is the first time I've ever seen such a strong reaction from her, but I've played with town and scum her, so I don't know if that's AI for her. If someone could weigh in on that.

[Hectic]

Can I get Krazy votes now? Do I have the swing?

You should have posted that Krazy case, regardless of it's awkwardness. Right now you have... nothing.

[Hectic]

I'll add this in

Ank hydra'd with Krazy, like, a lot. Tom also has experience. He is both of their individual top SRs, it isn't groupthink or a compromise SR. I reviewed a lot of Ank's linked meta, and I agree Krazy is not townie here. Casing a read that's not mine primarily is weird, i dunno why there is so much resistance to killing a slot that I think other than Nancy nobody even really town reads ??

Sure, but people are going to pursue their own scumreads over you team's, unless they're very sure about you being town, because they know their own alignment while they don't know yours'. Maybe ask Ank and Tom to case him in your PT?

[Hectic]

Wow, I clearly have a lot to learn.

nah. its a lot of work.

I used to keep notes in an excel doc for my games.

Only time I've ever kept records in a spreadsheet are as town. Way too much effort as scum, but probably makes things a lot easier.

[Hectic]

They did. I dont care to share it.

Why not?

[Hectic]

Pretty sure it's a Paranoid Gun Owner.

[Hectic]

Where did Elsa go? Anyone have any rituals for summoning an ice queen?

[Hectic]

What do you mean by vanity wagon?

[Hectic]

I see. Well, another way of looking at it is that all wagons start out as vanity wagons. If you respect large wagons, you gotta give credit to the little guys that created them.

The DDL and Titus vanity wagons are looking extra savoury.

[Hectic]

Pretty sure Bob is town.

[Hectic]

So I've been reading through those Pops-Amrun interactions for way too long now trying to figure out if either of them are scum, and I'm still pretty confused.
I will say that Pops' tone is a lot more antagonistic than I'm used to, my one scum game with her she was pretty lax iirc. But also, I'm surprised she's scumreading Amrun over a "scumslip" which I don't think is scum-indicative. It's easy to make errors like that and you can draw logic to how it's more likely she wouldn't forget Pine since she was scumreading him most, but mistakes happens, and I don't think it's NAI, and certainly not concrete. Most "scumslips" are NAI and sometimes actually more likely to come from town. Amrun... something something, can't articulate right now.

[Hectic]

I think I still townread you, pops, but outing the neighbourhood isn't reason alone for me to lynch Eddie. Like yes, I agree that it was scum-indicative but I checked through your ISO and that seems to be the lone reason. Gonna need more than that, especially considering Eddie's tone has stunk of town this game.

[Hectic]

i dont really think pops is scum lul

i asked my team to give me mini cases to incorporate into a big case i planned on making a few days ago

Spoiler: i don't want to share tom's or ank's super efforty cases, and mine isn't written, but here's dann's:

viewtopic.php?p=11489479#p11489479

that whole post is a scum case on its own
[/spoiler]

I really don't think it is. Why do you think it's so scum-indicative for her to react like that? What do you disagree about her logic?

[Hectic]

No Hectic. It was not scum indicative. Being impulsive is not a scum tell. It is scum indicative of Pops to double down on it like this/that. Her response was scum who misread how scummy the action was and thinking she could use it to sound townie and push me; why do you think no player in the game other than you and her felt that post was scummy?

It's not being impulsive that's the important thing. It's the doing something anti-town to prove a point and be right comes more often from scum than town because they think being right = town, or at least that's the mindset they can't help but put themselves in sometimes. I've got experience with this being a correct scumtell in the past.

[Hectic]

I'd ask Hopkirk if he's read this game. I don't know him super well but I believe he's experienced and should help out.

Okay, I'll ask what he thinks about this.

[Hectic]

I don't think that's true? I don't think we really need to argue that point because you town read me anyways.

So let's assume you're right, and Pops also has that same belief. That, as scum, is where the confidence comes from. She, as scum, genuinely believes I did something scummy! Hence, conviction. As scum, one of the ways I get town read is try to get worked up about something, or find something to be passionate about. For example, if my teammates outvote me on a kill I don't like, I'll enter the day arguing how shit of a kill that was - something I believe. This is going into a tangent though -

basically, the scummy part of it is that she is taking something and blowing it up. way more confidence than a player like her should have over somethign minor like that. she treated it like i claimed doc and she was doc or some shit like that, it wasn't a reasonable reaction or level of confidence.

Oh, OK, I get where you're coming from there actually. If it's the sole reason for her, it shouldn't be enough to hard scumread you.

[Hectic]

jokes are relevant to mindset. Azuresky caught me page 1 of deathlist cause I made a joke that wasn't as funny if I was town.

That sounds amazing, why don't I remember that? I CTR-Fed "joke" and "funny" in her ISO and couldn't find anything.

[Hectic]

Titus is definitely town, because I know Math and I know there’s no way she’s making any of that up.

Why can't Math have a legitimate townread on you with good reasons which he tells Titus? Knowing Titus is scum doesn't seem to matter there.

[Hectic]

dude i really think its pine/piss/pops agh

I like the alliteration.

VOTE: Pops

This would be a better wagon than Pops.

[Hectic]

Titus is definitely town, because I know Math and I know there’s no way she’s making any of that up.

Why can't Math have a legitimate townread on you with good reasons which he tells Titus? Knowing Titus is scum doesn't seem to matter there.

How new of a player are you?

(you're right, this is leading to a compliment not discrediting your response)

Not that new, 15 to 20 games rough estimate.

[Hectic]

I hope you're town because you're posting good logicy things I barely ever see in town the last few years.

If you're trying to pocket me here, I think it's working lol.

[Hectic]

I think this is honestly a pretty high quality game of mafia. No super billboard slots, few chronic lurkers, lots of discussion and reads changing.

For sure, this has been a lot of fun so far.

[Hectic]

Pops is probably town, but I do have a tiny tiny tiny reason to believe she is scum, but I do not feel like outing my reason as it is reaching (and somewhat a gut feeling) and I tr pops enough for now to ignore it.

I can't think of a protown reason not to out it.

If you feel that the reason is invalid at its core, there are six townies that can show you so in a collaborative process.
If it's truly valid at its deepest core then scum!pops would possibly NK you n1 or n2 as one of the players with a reservation against you she could never address, or maybe I guess she leaves you alive until LyLo where there is only 1 other townie to figure out whether your idea is dumb or smart and talk it out with you. But like, I don't see how it helps you to hide it.

Just like I gave a slight townread to Maria for #11, I kinda could see your #6 coming from a scum perspective since you arent too much of a fan of playing it.

Its reaching and an RVS read, but its there. I think your play otherwise suggests that you are town imo.

#6

Lul, that's incredible.

[Hectic]

I’ve hydra’d with him and this how town Math would think. He gets a wrong idea into his head and deathtunnels it into oblivion. That is exactly what he did with Kokichi in DnD. Any point I would make to show why he might not be scum got dismissed and he’d get very upset with me for disagreeing with him, so yeah, it totally sounds exactly like what Math would do. I seriously doubt that Math would ever be stupid enough to push scum!Titus to try and mislynch me, so yeah, I think this is town!Titus we’re seeing here.

That’s my point, I don’t believe Math is tr me and that Titus is telling the truth about that.

Right, I see. Depends on whether Titus has told her teammates her alignment or not then I guess. Wish we'd have thought of that at the start.

[Hectic]

It'll be hilarious if Eddie and Pops is TvT, which is kinda what I'm leaning towards right now.

[Hectic]

Btw, who was saying Pine dislikes playing scum and that him being active is town-indicative?
He hasn't posted in a while since getting wagoned.

[Hectic]

I just kind of went into this assuming everyone would tell their partners their alignment but not their partners which is why this "fake teammate solve real teammate solve" stuff is going over my head. Playing mafia is hard specifically because you can't not know who the scum are, why would you pass up getting 3 people who can be that?

Oh right... that makes a whole lot of sense. That makes it completely worthless to read someone's alignment based on their team mate's reads.
Unless you think the team mate would never push the player to do something if they knew the player was scum, like what Nancy seems to think with Math and Titus.

[Hectic]

but then

pops lines of thoughts are still too wack yo

Can't make my mind up on this. The lines of thought are great when you look at them from the right angle, just trying to figure out if that angle is from a townie acute mindset, or a scummy obtuse one.

[Hectic]

Darth Sidius. 100%

[Hectic]

And what's that? Unless you're intentionally withholding that for now.

[Hectic]

Btw, who was saying Pine dislikes playing scum and that him being active is town-indicative?
He hasn't posted in a while since getting wagoned.

No, I think you’ve got that backwards. Pine, I think prefers scum and no being active is NAI for him. What is unusual for town!him (unless Team Mafia is an exception to this and still could be?) is him pushing as hard as he was for lynches THIS early in the game. Him trying to ram through your lynch doesn’t sound like typical town!him but like I said, he could be taking TM more seriously but he made a point of specifically saying in one of the games I read that he generally isn’t too active on D1. I don’t recall him trying to drive any lynches in Vengeful Ghosts.

I see. Though I disagree him pushing for a flip 9 days early is indicative of him taking TM more seriously. Just sounds like outright bad play to me if he's town. Why quicklynch instead of using the extra time to: come to a better informed lynch, have more time to form reads, have more data to look for associations later on. Plus, he wanted to quicklynch me before I even came on to give reads or really start playing. I'd said I wasn't playing the prior day because I wasn't feeling it, and he tries to get me lynched before I even come back. I'm glad you've eminded me of some of the reasons for why I'm hard scumreading him.

[Hectic]

None of my partners rolled scum so that didn't give me any data.

Ha

[Hectic]

dat comma BoP

I'm gonna have to start "forgetting" commas, it's an ingenious strat when you think about it.
Pine OkaPoka Nancy Eddie are top town.
SS Titus DDL are scum.

[Hectic]

dat comma BoP

I'm gonna have to start "forgetting" commas, it's an ingenious strat when you think about it.
Pine OkaPoka Nancy Eddie are top town.
SS Titus DDL are scum.

Pine is your top townread now? Why? And why are you completely ignoring my case on why Titus has to be town? And didn’t you say earlier you liked SS’ answer to you about being nervous?

Uhhh, it was a joke in line with the Pops comma debacle.
I'm TRing Oka, Nancy, Eddie, SS.
Spring Pine, DDL, Titus, and kinda Elsa Jay.
Titus I'm kinda undecided on because she really doesn't seem to care to want to interact with me in our neighbourhood, and that's giving me pause to wonder whether scum!Titus wouldn't use that hood more, while it would make sense for town!Titus to not use it if she's so certain I'm scum. But at the same time, she should be using it to sort my alignment, so there's that too. But there's the reason you gave. Oh, and she tried to quicklynch me too which was pretty scummy for the same reasons why it made Pine scummy.

[Hectic]

Micc Hectic and Krazy are bullying me

She's only gone and done it again. Which

is it

, pops?
Is Micc also bullying you in your scum PT, or did you

conveniently

forget a comma there?
Very suspicious.

[Hectic]

@Micc:

Am I allowed to copy-paste anything from our hood? I want to give an update on my journal entries.

[Hectic]

Actually, Titus not interacting with me in our hood is NAI. Stupid to townread her over that for reasons already specified. I've also asked her a few questions here and tried to engage her over why she's scumreading me, and she's been very unreceptive to these attempts. Though, she's feeling sick so hopefully she can address those when she's feeling better.

[Hectic]

Oh yeah, Bob should be in my town pile too, forgot he was in the game for a min there. Can I ask why you townread Titus, Amrun?

[Hectic]

dat comma BoP

I'm gonna have to start "forgetting" commas, it's an ingenious strat when you think about it.
Pine OkaPoka Nancy Eddie are top town.
SS Titus DDL are scum.

Pine is your top townread now? Why? And why are you completely ignoring my case on why Titus has to be town? And didn’t you say earlier you liked SS’ answer to you about being nervous?

I replied to this earlier, Nancy.

[Hectic]

Oh, you don’t tr Pine, so that was a typo then?

I blame you for this, Pops.

Nancy, it was a joke post where the first name in the townreads was a scumread, and the first name in the scumreads was a townread. Referencing pops saying her top town were "Krazy Oka and someone." Important thing is no, I am not townreading Pine.

[Hectic]

king snek has digivolved into: fluffy chimera!

Gonna be honest, that chimera looks pretty scummy. I mean, look at the killing power of those canines

[Hectic]

This is pretty against-the-grain thought. I lean DDL town now.

Why is this making you lean town? What if he had reads that aligned with yours, would that also make you lean town?

[Hectic]

When I think of what Pops is doing if town: I think wtf?
When I think of what Pops is doing if scum: I think wtf?

I get what she's doing as town a lot more than scum. Unless she thought these pushes had no chance of getting her scumread, but I don't think she believes that because the pushes were very aggressive and on two consensus neutral to townreads.

[Hectic]

This is pretty against-the-grain thought. I lean DDL town now.

Why is this making you lean town? What if he had reads that aligned with yours, would that also make you lean town?

Actually no. I would expect DDL scum to buddy me.

Okay, but why is it a good thing that he has reads which go against the consensus?

@DDL: Why is SS scum?

[Hectic]

Can someone explain to me why Titus is town? I think I'm the only one scumleaning her, so I want to hear some reasons. Is it because of her entrance outing the neighbourhood? Why can't she have done that as scum? Also, she was really stubborn in accepting alternate strategies even when it was pretty evident they were superior. If scum, I don't think she believed her strat would be followed, but I think she could be faking the conviction she had for the original strat, to possibly be townread for genuine misguided actions.

Agree again on Bob town.

Still leaning towards pops ofc town right now, think she's a mislynch.

[Hectic]

Pine hasn't posted here in 2 days, why have people forgotten the original reasons for why he was wagoned? He disappeared right after the wagon started too.

[Hectic]

i dont like it

Your SS vote isn't doing anything, come onto Pine.

[Hectic]

OK, have fun with your wagons as long as we're still lynching Pine at day end.

Still think Eddie's town but would like him to address why Amrun was the only town he put in 1538 despite him saying she's not top town. I mean, there's explanations for that but I don't like how he's avoiding the question.

[Hectic]

Oh wow, we have 7 days, what is this deadline.

[Hectic]

2004

[Hectic]

I don’t really get her Amrun read but her play really doesn’t make a lot of sense if she’s scum. In TK game, scum!Pops actually pushed on a viable counterwagon and neither Eddie or Amrun fit that bill at the time. Amrun clearly still doesn’t.

We need to make some recruitment flyers for making the Pine wagon look more appealing.

[Hectic]

He disappeared right after the wagon started too.

Isn't it scum-indicative to disappear after you start getting wagoned though? Or have you seen him to do that as town when pressure mounts on him?

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

what's the probability we'd put on pops+eddie hoods having one scum?

5/14? Less than the baseline I think. 3/7 is baseline, but I also know I'm town and in a neighbourhood, so that also skews my perception of other hoods.

[Hectic]

hectic do you read titus as town?remind me

Nope, keep changing my mind on her, but scumlean right now.

[Hectic]

Don't like any of these posts:

I do get the feeling that the scum could be trying to scum read their neighbours so they can get rid of them before they flip.

Then how to we have such a large organic townblock?

L minus 1

VOTE: Hectic

Tomorrow, if I am alive, pops and I will have a chat.

The only sorta scumread I have on the wagon are ddl and elsa Jay. I doubt both are scum (wagon would be overloaded). If they both are, then it's bus cred major.

If Hectic flips town, one scum max on his wagon right now.

Ok I'm ready for the flip.

If Pine's just pushing an easy mislynch, why wouldn't he push me harder earlier? Second, why would he need an out?

I'm not a fan of this desperate effort to save Hectic.

@Titus, why are so so confident on Hectic scum? Convince me.

Look at the garbage besides you and Amrun voting Pine. Despite all the slots assisting only Pine picked up I am more agreeable as scum than town.

I don't think so. Pine's town. He's been lock town since then.

Pine's easy to wagon. Hectic took a marathon.

Drunk Titus never votes Pine.

I CTR-Fed my name and there's no mention of why she scumreads me before these posts, other than mentioning she didn't like me not having a strong reaction to her outing the hood. Nothing in her play suggests that she should be confident I'm scum, or be okay with flipping me 9 days early. Also, the shading of who? in 1143, and I dislike her defence of Pine. I'd say it could be Titus+Pine but that seems too transparent from them. Then there's the reasoning in 654, but I'm less confident on that now after the consensus from people with meta with her are saying that's Titus being obvtown. I've played with her once where she was scum but I barely remember her play, she was a lot less active there I do remember.

[Hectic]

Much confusion and mixed thoughts. The explanation in 2027 makes sense to me, but it also seems a little overkill.

@Eddie: The best thing for you to do here if you're town is to paraphrase Ank and Tom's cases on Krazy and post that here. I don't understand why you haven't already done that.

[Hectic]

Tom gave me an updated reads list:

{Titus, Nancy}
{Oka}
{SS, Hectic, Amrun}
{Elsa, Piss, Pine, NaCl}
Pops - he doesn't know, bob - he needs my feedback, ddl - who
{Krazy}

Ank's reads are here (removed myself again)

Titus/Okapoka/Amrun
Nancy Drew 39/Something_Smart/Pine/Hectic/bob3141
Elsa Jay/DrDolittle
popsofctown/pisskop
Krazy/NaCl

This is a longshot, but does anyone know if Tom usually uses curly brackets for reads, and Ank usually use forward slashes? Sounds dumb but might be worth looking into.

[Hectic]

I think that's the sort of thing that's supposed to be modkill territory for team mafia D:

uhhhh... ignore me then please, I had no idea.

[Hectic]

I didn't like him suggesting Tom's tomreads were good by insinuating Tom was Tom though.

[Hectic]

@Eddie: The best thing for you to do here if you're town is to paraphrase Ank and Tom's cases on Krazy and post that here. I don't understand why you haven't already done that.

Remind me again why you aren't doing this? Is there any specific reason?

[Hectic]

grumble grumble
I'm with Nancy here, I'm thinking town for both of them, but someone did make a good point earlier that Eddie's AtE game is very strong, I didn't realise it but I was townreading for AtE reasons a lot more than I thought. If one of them is scum, I

think

it's Eddie over Krazy.
Happy with a DDL flash wagon.

-Hectic

[Hectic]

Hectic, I'll read your hood soon but can you talk in plain English?

Were the hieroglyphics too cryptic for your liking?

[Hectic]

gon.

You mentioned he's contributing in other games though. Do you really think he'd prioritise that over his team mafia game unless there was some underlying reason for it? Either it's NAI and his enjoyment for this game dropped, or he's scum tactically lurking and/or doesn't know how to respond to the wagon on him.