White Flag - TM2020

[Formerfish]

MINE!

[Formerfish]

Shit!

[Formerfish]

Sorry guys, i fucked up my entrance. Im going to just go home.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Dann

Anyone not voting here is scum or town that needs to die.

[Formerfish]

@everyone, why did everyone choose this game?

The rest of my team didnt want to play in this one and I didnt want to play in the large at all. This one kinda fits the way I play better since some of my best games have been as a VT fighting everyone and figuring out the scum team and then taking them out in lylo/mylo for the win. No need to thank me, its just what I do. Win fucking games. Check my iso for confirmation.

[Formerfish]

Will you answer this too?

I didn't I wanted to be in the other open game, but I think I was too heavy handed my own personal blacklist and bob got pushed into it instead
I specifically didn't want this game because it is

particularly difficult to win as town

I dont agree with this. I think that white flag forces us to actually play the game instead of waiting for people with night actions to point us in the right direction. We have to play differently here and part of that is going to be how much we fight with each other. And thats not to mean we cant disagree, but we should know right now that there is almost no chance that we arent going to mislynch at some point. What we need to look at is the VCA and the wagons of the day prior to inform the wagons and lynches of the days to come. Even a mislynch is going to net us info, and the more info we have the better we see the full puzzle of whos working with the town and whos working against it.

[Formerfish]

i was in white flag last team mafia, and i'm a creature of habit. plus, i was never taking the large theme, didn't really want a normal and i told RC i wanted white flag before the open setup was revealed and so that's what he put me for.

VOTE: wgeurts

This is a third for wgeurts and the second i think that was naked.

You guys got beef?

[Formerfish]

hi nsg im excited to finally play a game with you

big fan

[Formerfish]

I suspect the team aspect can fix some of the issues that cause towns to do worse in practice.

Hopefully like peoples teammates telling them to pull theirs heads out of their asses when theyve made shitty reads theyve settled into tunneling...

Making sure they play mostly without working against town.

Flip side, i think it makes finding scum a little harder without more data. The scum team basically has 9 other people to help them out with their games as well.

[Formerfish]

Why’d you choose to vote me, FF?

Pine v Ali. I just wanna be able to say I pegged you on day one when you eventually snow the shit out of us all.

[Formerfish]

I voted for wgeurts because I liked KittyMo’s entrance and wanted to build a wagon, and wagons good blah blah blah

What about Kittys open was more appealing that Cephs? Both were first votes on people and both had witty remarks to catch appeal. The big fan comment to NSG after she voted with you guys is something that pings me too. Like you are trying to gain her favor by pandering to her after she sheeped your sheep.

[Formerfish]

I feel like my scum game is overrated

but that’s just me

Im a sucker for recency bias.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Dann

Anyone not voting here is scum or town that needs to die.

I think he's pretty likeable so far. Whether that's worthy of an actual read is most of what I had to mull before you blew up the thread.

He has, but he also seemed fine as a fucking evil tree in a forest of lies.

[Formerfish]

It was more post #10 than her opening opening that I liked. Just a gut “hey that feels genuine” ping but gotta go off something.

I thought people might interpret that as me trying to pocket nsg or something but really I’m just a fanboy. Also don’t think that post realistically does anything to “gain favor” with a player of her caliber (oops I’m doing it again).

I did take that as a bit of fanboyism, hence my big fan post. I didn't take it as AI at all though, just unsure of the sentiment.

About Kitty mo- The below post is the one you got town feels from? If anything it pinged me slightly scummy because of the bolded part. I kinda felt like this was her subconsciously admitting to being afraid of being investigated and found out to be scum, so knowing that she couldnt have that happen here to her would be a benefit to her.

@everyone, why did everyone choose this game?

Lots of reasons! I like smaller games, I'm more interested in the day game as both alignments, and I don't have to worry as much about not knowing the current site meta of closed game design. I also like not having to stress over whether my top scumread is going to turn out to be an

investigative PR

(this happens to me well above chance).

Will you answer this too?

[Formerfish]

I kinda felt like this was her subconsciously admitting to being afraid of being investigated and found out to be scum, so knowing that she couldnt have that happen here to her would be a benefit to her.

That's not my baggage; the last time I even specifically recall being the target of an investigative role was in 2009. I can dig up proof that I have a problem trying to hang PRs if that's of interest.

Do you have problems differentiating between big dick town PRs and nasty scum bois?

[Formerfish]

When I saw how active FF was being I thought I would have a townread on him by the time I caught up, but I don't!

Shrug

[Formerfish]

I guess I'm interested in why you didn't comment on anything from page 2 that wasn't a direct question toward you. Like, the amount of posts is clearly not being a barrier to you being able to analyze what was there. What was your mindset?

I glazed over spam posting from Formerfish

Spam posting on page 2 oh no! I'm so sorry turkey.

Oh shit. Wait. I have 16 posts, 17 after this one. I would say more than half of my posts are legit posts and very little is spam.

You have 42 posts and half of them are one line posts. Don't shade me with that weak ass shit when you are the blackest kettle around.

[Formerfish]

I glazed over spam posting from Formerfish

Probably from where you keep complaining about being run up in games and you saying I was spamming the thread.

Spamming and posting a lot are not the same thing. Creature spams threads. RC spams threads. I post content. If you dont understand what im doing then you need to work on your reading comprehension.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Dann

Anyone not voting here is scum or town that needs to die.

@MOD- You have me voting Dunn, not Dann. I get the mixx up, so i ain't mad atcha.

[Formerfish]

I won't be getting to this tonight. I'm only like 2 pages back, but I feel like the 2 pages before it don't look familiar. I'll start I to those pages tomorrow, Monday by the latest.

[Formerfish]

I'm fed. I'm showered. And as soon as I repack this piece in front of me I'm going to be present for a reread if anyone is interested in danding.

[Formerfish]

Page 1:

Gobs question becomes a thing.

Dann shows his inner fan boi towards NSG

Geurt wagon grows to 4 with Auro vote

Page 2:

This is pretty much just Dann and I.

Page 3:

How does the answer to "Why White Flag?" give any useful information? The reasons would have been established prior, and there's no picking games after role assignments anyway.

I didnt mind the question because I do think that there could be info we can glean from a choice. Like if anyone wanted to be in this game and why. Or if everyone was forced into the game then there would be nothing to gain from it. I also don't mind the cageyness of Gob around his reasonings because tipping his hand about the reason behind the question could compromise his ability to get anything from the question.

Also one of my teammates thinks he's just town!

Who?

Ceph started in on Gob here 60.
Hopkirk became a thing and my head started to hurt.

Page 4:

Ceph and Gob go back and forth a lot. Ceph seems to have an issue with the use of big words and is making a meta argument against Gob, but when called on it Ceph denies that its a meta read while only talking about meta and even admitting he was still going on about meta. To call someone "wooden" is to imply that you have seem them before as town as has been looser then he is here. If meta isnt the basis for the casis, then what is Ceph?

I don't get the bit Hops doing. That team knows they dont play in all the games concurrently right?

Page 5:

I'm having some trouble seeing how these fit together. It might help if you expanded on how you're "unsure of the sentiment."

Sure, 37 I'm saying that the interaction was something that made me stop and pay attention, and in 40 I'm saying that I don't know if its AI and what I meant about the sentiment is that there isnt anyone on here on irl that I would fan boi for. Like I've met people at conventions and shit, but ive never been like omg and starts gushing. I only do that for people I know but havent seen in awhile. Like if Titus is in a game I'm in, youll see it.

I didn't even see that post, but yeah that is a big personality.

I don't think I'm that big.

I do like how Ceph is bouncing around, it reminds me of town games with him.

While we are on the topic of meta, if NSG lurks she is scum. Period.

This was weird.

and i think he's not afraid to make waves and that's good

I'm trying not to let this specifically influence my read because

I think this is just who FF is as a person

but I think I'm finally vibing with a town read

I don't have any scum reads yet but I guess I can live with that

Should i be insulted by the bold?


Biggest take away from the 1st 5 is a town lean on Ceph based on his vote hoping and the pressure he's putting on slots already.

I don't like how bogged down Dann got with Gob and the RQS about why this game as I posted above I think that there could be info to gain from this.

Gob also took some heat from multiple slots and I think he came out the other side looking better each time. Town lean here too.

Also glad hopkirk was doing a bit and that slot might calm down a little.

[Formerfish]

Page 6:

Not a fan of how passive 100 reads tone wise. She made a lot of comments but what she left out gives me the impression she was avoiding getting into the noisiest/messiest/most visible parts of the game. Fence sitting on Gobble. Not getting involved/commenting about me (the hydra thing) and the gobble/Ceph conflict that were both going on at the time.

This is an interesting read. I didn't feel like Kitty was doing that, but I was also not involved in the "messy" parts so maybe it just feels that way if you were active in the thread? I'll have to look back at Kitty to see if I see the same thing.

The desire to not want to be voting me is not scummy, the need to move it to another person to talk with them is weird. You just did it with Auro too.

Cephs actions dont ping me like that, ive seen plenty of people vote for who they want to talk to, its almost like a shout in a crowd to that person because they will definitely see a vote for them if they are active.

After Kittys 147 i no longer feel good about Hopkirks Hottake. I liked this part "I don't think your takes on "the first part" are great. Like, you seem to be arguing it's both "too prepared" but also something he didn't think through enough when he asked it which is why he had to overprepare later?" towards Hops read on Gob. Looking back at what shes talking about made me look at Hops posts in a different light. Town points for Kitty.

Page 7:

I did though, I think Dann wrote you off as town too fast and was kind of scummy in the posts right before the vote

Which posts and why didnt they make it onto your catch up? You talk about Dann in your first post and you seem to like him, and then without much mention of him you flip your read.

FormerFish isn't as impressive as his former games at all. He has a lot of posts, but not a lot of content, save a weakish push on KittyMo.

Which games are you basing this meta off of? And I don't feel like I've been posting much at all. I've been working through some stuff irl and haven't had the drive to do many things I enjoy.

And if I made a weak push on anyone it was Dann.

I like Dunn over Auro in their beef.

Page 8:

@everyone, why did everyone choose this game?

I'm not going to have a lot of time to invest in TM, so decided I'd go for the simplest setup.

Dude what. Quickly interrupting me reading up to state how this is a terrible idea. Why would you participate in an event consisting of games where everyone is expected to be playing at their best, knowing you don't have the time to do so?

Others are dependent on your performance, not just of your team but also your faction in this game. You are an absolute liability to the town if you don't put in effort, which takes time. I really hope to see it from you.

Wow, this was a bit unnecessary to me. Unless this is a joke and im just taking it the wrong way...

Okay so, I like Dunnstral and Cephrir for town, probably also Hopkirk but I want to talk with them. I don't particularly like both FormerFish and Auro, and have doubts on Turkey being scum as the interaction with Cephrir seemed pretty TvT for an early game exchange. I want to hear more thoughts from Joan as sorting them can be tedious if they're not all too invested.

Will write up my explanations in a bit. I'm way too tired at the moment.

This is actually kinda scary how in step we are. I even don't like myself at times.

Dann 184 do you think that Im scum reading you because of my rvs vote? 151 and 153 are me poking at Gob to see what he'll do, kinda the same thing i did to you with my rvs vote. Thats kinda what i do on d1s if you havent noticed. Some may be hunters, but im more of a gatherer. Strongest read is on Ceph town, and i liked part of Geurts entry, not a fan of the rebuke.

Join the FF wagon?

You love wagons based on nothing dont you? Is that because you aren't very good at forming reads so you hop from wagon to wagon in hopes that something clicks for you?

It's quite simple reasoning. A continued push on reasons I (at least initially) disagreed with, on a slot I judge likely town, is slightly likelier to come from scum than random to my eyes. You've never seen someone push someone else for pushing a townread of theirs?
Also, can you give me a brief explanation of your scumreads so far?

Isnt what youre describing a chainsaw defense? You think my town read is scum so you have to be scum.

Form reads based off peoples own actions not how you think they play off other reads that arent set in stone or ever verifiable.

Sure, you can consider it as such. What do you make of it?

I love you too Dongy.

i want to clear my mind on former first because this doesnt play like his towngame.

Dafuq?

I didn't see Auros vote on Dong coming, I kinda thought there were teaming up to come after me the way they've been talking. This just got interesting.

Maybe it's your style, but scummy nonetheless.
Do you disagree?

Why do you speak for Dong while you are voting him? Dongs issues is with Ceph, you dont need to step in for Dong.

Page 9:

Dong is going deep on Ceph and Auro. I think his instincts are correct on one and not the other.

Not a fan at all of Auros vote for Ceph in 203. Like Auro admits that Dong hasnt done anything to wash the scummy taste out of his mouth at all, but still moves his vote to someone who is clearly towning it up here.

@Formerfish

Sorry Kitty, answered above.

I feel like I'm doing it wrong continuing to have short posts!

My team is supporting me on the Auro suspicion, so im content to roll with that for a bit.

What are they saying about it?

okay he's bothering me to say that he specifically means on gobbles

RC says that Gobs is scum?

Page 10:

VOTE: cephrir

I dont like this. The voting progression of Auro and Dong feel off here. Like they vote for separate people, and then for each other and then one sheeps the other. It just feels to incestuous. And if the vote is on Ceph because of his play style thats a weak vote and you both should feel bad about it.

@Formerfish: could you explain the thought process you had while posting this? It reads like the textbook 'LAMIST' and the connection between your monologue and Gobble's post feels loose at best - as though you wanted to post this and you're using Gobble's post as an excuse to post it. Don't really see why you'd want to as scum or as town though, so interested in your mindset.

He said that white flag is hard to win as town. I disagreed and explained why I felt that wasnt true. I don't know why youre calling it a monologue because its not even among the biggest posts in thread and was made on page 2 in response to something from page 1. I dont understand how me explaining why a post made sense for me to contribute at the time will help change something you see as NAI.

pretty abrasive personality/playwise

I resent this depiction of me.

Did this help you develop your read on Turkey? If so, what is it.

He kinda retreated, which I see coming from town more so than scum. If scum saw a chance to rake me over the coals for being a douche they would have. Ive been teetering on Gob a little, but I keep coming back to the town side based off a game i played with him recently.

I explained it in the very post you quoted - FormerFish's content was unimpressive, unlike in my previous games with him. Why was this hard to understand?

I am rarely impressive on d1, i get cooking d3 or so.

245 Espy remembered this game is a thing.

No read on at all: Joan, NSG, Espy

Townish- Wgeurt, Ceph, Hop, Gob

Nullish: Dann, Dunn, Kitty,

Scumish: Auro, Dong

[Formerfish]

Its time to repack the bowl and get some more koolaid.

Im glad those walls didnt end up as long as i thought they were going to cause i forgot to spolier them...

[Formerfish]

Gobble is the scummiest player at this point in the game.

[Formerfish]

uhhh pay no attention to that random blurb.. nothing to see here.

[Formerfish]

I was curious because I had mixed feelings on FF at the time, still do tbh. And I wanted to know if you scum read him, what the reasons for that were.

Can you go into your mixed feelings more? Im kinda getting the feeling that youre fishing for reasons to scum read me for some reason and you have nothing right now so you are looking to latch on to someone elses reasons as an excuse to get off the fence on me.

my current working townblock is {dunn, kittymo, wgeurts}

I see the other two but why wgeurts

This post feels off to me for some reason as well. The post from NSG that Dann quoted as her 4th post and has offered almost nothing to the game at all. Why is Dann so interested in her town block when no ones town block should have NSG in it right now?

And I really don't like that vote on Cephrir immediately after from Dongempire

VOTE: Dongempire

How do you feel about Auro since has basically did the same things as Dong here? Are you tring Auro since you think scumDong latched onto his bad read on Ceph?

VOTE: gobble

I mean if I were to think of a ballsy 2nd post in a game itd be a naked vote 250 posts after the first.

So just skimming this page alone. idgaf if it's prevalent in other games, but here, I don't want to see any of this attacking with x reason because y teammate said so. It removes accountability, the teammate is able to read from a neutral perspective, and therefore muddies the entirety of the game.

Bounce ideas of them sure, but play your game, don't be a conduit for someone to just play four games.

Vote: Auro

Whats the difference between it being said in their teams pt and here? If they agree with the comment from their teammate its just as much coming from them as it is another. I doubt that if one of my teammates said XYZ were scum and I disagreed you guys wouldnt be hearing about it in this thread. (this post just beat Joans out for best 2nd post)

So I've found two scum which is enough to win the game. Auro and Dunn are both scum kthxbi

I can see scum Auro, but I dont see scum Dunn right now, what are you seeing?

I like Kittys posts more and more, got a little worried seeing her say Gammagooey was sring me, but the correction post put that to bed.

Highlighting your effort rather than trying to build on it is more likely to be a feature of fake solving.

Its lines like this that make me like her posts by the way.

Page 12:

Is gobble vote-worthy in your eyes, why or why not?

Right now, no, I have him as townish. I'd be down for Auro or Dong at this point.

exploitable mechanic.

Am i dumb for not knowing what you mean?

FF I look forward to your catch up

wow me pls

Why? So you can finally justify a tr on me? Ducky tell you to pocket me this way?

at this point I'm just trying to throw stuff out there and see what sticks and what doesn't because this game needs something to kick start it

You could push a scum read of your own? I feel like this whole game you have been asking questions and have been talking a lot but i havent seen a push from you yet, have i? Why jumpstart the game with saying random stuff to see what happens when you have barely said your own reads.

291 where the fuck does this vote on Ceph from Dann come from?

Well if he's town, then his teammate acts one way, if he's scum then his teammate acts the other way, right? Or are you saying that Duck wouldn't bother with that if he were scum?

Yeah, if they were scum I don't think they'd fake a reason for duck to tell Dann to keep an eye out for me.

Ducky could have said that to him as scum only if you were town. If Dann is scum Ducky could have told him to keep an eye on you and then had to come up with a reason why he said that. This probably means that Dann and Auro are not scum together.

297 is really good posting from Espy

Page 13:

Unsure what this question is supposed to mean? Am I not supposed to form reads on people I've never played with before?

This feels like a dodge to me. I think its reasonable for Dunn to ask why the quick tr on Espy if Dann has no experience with Espy. I think its a little pedantic to act like the idea of tring Espy is crazy when all Dunn asked for was the reason behind the tr in this game, that Dann gave.

Maybe I'm just bad!

You did say you were overrated, maybe the scum pressure is getting to you and chinks in your armor are starting to spider out putting you closer and closer to sure death?

I don't really think this responds to my point. Do you see why I'd have a problem with you making meta arguments on 2 people (though maybe just one since you said FF was past game based, but I'm counting it as meta argument in treating you as a player who likes meta) then being suspicious of someone for something that meta would help you to sort while not looking at the meta on that person?

It took me a minute to figure out what you were saying here, it was a bit convoluted, but i think i got there in the end. This is about Auro not looking at Gobs iso right?

About FF: He was Nev from some Booneytunz Extravaganza game I remember, and was a very aggressive (in a way that advances the game) voice there, his 20 posts here feel nothing like that. I forget why I asked you to sell me on town!FF, looking back at your posts I don't see a townread from you.

In that game I was a hydra and it was a large theme that i like instantly got scumread by multiple people in and had to fight them off the entire time. I was unhappy with that game and its the only one ive even considered blacklisting someone as a result of.

NSG's being clear in her lack of effort so far, and has mentioned there are other reasons.
FF is a slot I wouldn't mind lynching D1, but NSG I wouldn't - even if there were reasons to believe she's scum, I'd put her off for a later day.

Is this the shit on FF game and no one told me?

Yeah I wouldn't apply a BoP to FF

So NSG is worth keeping around to see how accurate her reads are, but I can die today? Thanks bro.

Page 14:

Eddie Cane would like it to be publicly stated that his two most confident reads are Auro and Hopkirk as town.

I agree for the most part. Definitely on Hopkirk, somewhat less confident but still town reading Auro.

I guess i spoke too soon about people not putting out reads from teammates in thread they dont believe in themselves. Does Cane have a lot of experience with those two in particular?

VOTE: gobble

I like this vote about as much as when he voted foe Ceph.

Is this another one of those throw shit and see what sticks things, or are you moving your vote to sit it until deadline when we eventually have to lynch Gob because of deadline?

@the Joan of Arc point: I think Dunn's reasoning actually makes sense here, and if Gobble's actually scum this would make Joan very likely town to me. However I can also imagine scum!her being coached into naked wagoning and lurking...

I dont understand how you could come to any conclusion on Joans alignment based off Im here and a naked vote on Gob. Literally 2 posts. If Gob is the lynch and flips scum I would see that as nothing other than a distancing vote from Joan.

@Dann, somehow I feel a little bit uncomfortable with my being the "most confident" town read. Does tw concur?

the worst also concurs! Although he has not read the entire game I don't think and has no other reads besides you

If he hasnt read the game why does it feel like you are using him as a crutch?

I want to vote NSG because she is playing into her scum meta that I saw in Alternative 9P. I find it odd that no one else is commenting on that. It seemed like it was common knowledge across the site since other payers in that game also made that observation.

Ive never played with NSG so I dont know her meta to comment on. Why is she the only scum read you explain? Wgeurt, Dong and I are all below the line of demarcation, but NSG is the only one of us high enough to get explained.

Gobble is the scummiest player at this point in the game.

If you have meta info on scum NSG you should share it, I don't know what you are talking about.

VOTE: Formerfish

Gob is the scummiest player to Dunn. Gob claims to have info on NSG that makes her scum. Dunn votes me while asking his biggest scum read what makes NSG scum. That totally makes sense.

At this point Brad stood up from his computer and went into the kitchen. In the back of the cabinet there was a bottle that had grown a bit dusty over time. Some ol' kentucky rye whiskey sloshed in the bottle as it was removed from its forgotten home. See the only time that Brad ever drinks from this bottle is when he has read something that makes his head literally hurt. Brad used to go the hospital in the past when things like this happened. He would explain how he felt and the doctors and nurses would listen and they would run some tests. All of those actions were in vain as what Brad was suffering from was not something that could be deduced by any tests known to man. Brad was suffering from an allergy to other people and the things that they say that make no sense at all. Brad has been doing good, staying on the right path, avoiding politics and any discussions of religion. Playing Mafia was playing with fire though, and deep down Brad always knew that this would be the ending given enough time. Well what the hell, I know the medication says not to drink with it, but thats just a suggestion right?

Page 15:

Basing meta off booneytunz extravaganza, weren't you Nev?

Yes, as a hydra.

I do love wagons based on nearly nothing in RVS, yes.

Sweet, learn anything from your vote hopping?

Playstyle is no excuse for scummy play.

I don't see Ceph as playing scummy. I see this as his town game. Look at him in Baton Pass and you will see the same attitude, posting, dismissiveness everything to a t.

I did form a mild push based on people's actions - their attack of a townread of mine.

Attacking a townread of yours shouldnt automatically make them scum to you. Don't you think you'd want to engage the person with a differing view to see if you were incorrect and therefore could reassess and readjust or maybe explain why you have the read you have and see if you could change the other persons? It seems kinda silly to arbitrarily decide someones alignment based off your reading of a different slot. You could easily be wrong and are tring a scumbag and are scumreading a townie based off them correctly scumreading the scum that has snowed you. Again, im pretty sure this is a chainsaw defense and is a scummy thing to do

I admitted the opposite about Doing, what did you get out of post 259?

I must have missed that one.

I didn't "step in", I was also attacking Ceph from before that, so...? How is this scum motivated anyway?

You did step in because you were further explaining Dongs position against Ceph. Ceph asked Dong a question is response to a post Dong had made. Before Dong responded you made a post. Its scummy because either you are white knighting dong or trying to pocket him here.

I see the Dong+Auro association but that's not a path I'd take if I were scum with him, lol.

I mean, it might not have been what you meant to do, but it looks like it happened.

[Formerfish]

That brings me up to date and this is where i am reads wise after all that.

Townie: Wgeurt, Kitty, Ceph, Hop, Espy

Nullie: Dunn, NSG, Gob

Scummie: Dann, Joan, Auro, Dong

Looking at the wagons we have 3 leading ones, Ceph, Auro and Gob.

Seeing Auro, Dong and Dann on Ceph make me feel good about that slot being town considering Joan would have to come back on to naked vote there as well for all my scum reads to be voting Ceph.

Auro is being voted by Ceph, Hop and Espy all people I have good feels about so far. Then Gob has Dunn and Joan on it.

VOTE: Auro

[Formerfish]

Y'all can revisit this later as anecdotal evidence but I am gonna need more than logical fallacies to join wagons for the sake of it.

Which part of "they still didn't bother shifting votes off a top 3 townread" is fallacious? It's a pretty standard standard to hold someone to, moreso from a known competent player.

Is this about NSG?

[Formerfish]

Vote Count

Cephrir - 3

(Auro, Dongempire, Dannflor)

Auro - 3

(Cephrir, Hopkirk, Espeonage)

gobbledygook - 2

(Dunnstral, Joan of Arc)

KittyMo - 1

(wgeurts)

wguerts - 1

(northsidegal)

Dannflor - 1

(Formerfish)

Hopkirk - 1

(gobbledygook)

Dunnstral - 1

(Kittymo)

Not Voting - 0

( )

Activity Check - Prodding Dongempire and wguerts

Deadline: (expired on 2020-01-16 22:59:30)

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to Lynch

So you care more about the single rvs vote on wgeurts from NSG that is in no way a danger to wgeurts because he has one vote and I havent seen many people saying hes on the top of their scum list.

NSG has said she isnt very involved in the thread right now and you seem to have an issue with that.

Joan said shes here and then naked votes Gob and you seem to be just aofuckingk with that for some reason.

Why worry about a vanity rvs vote at all?

[Formerfish]

I mean wgeurts has less posts than NSG and he is voting for Kitty, wanna vote him next?

[Formerfish]

@mod- Can we get an update on wgeurts and Joan and then a prod of NSG cause she just went into the red zone.

[Formerfish]

I don't see why you care about her vote at all. She's admitted to not being very involved with the thread, but you think she should at least unvote. I don't think her vote is doing any damage where it is and she is still inactive.

Why don't you ask her about it when, and if, she posts.

[Formerfish]

And I don't understand what you mean about the holistic thing.

[Formerfish]

Espeonage can be town

FF I look forward to your catch up

wow me pls

VOTE: Formerfish

coherent words will have to come tomorrow

Does this mean you weren't wowed?

[Formerfish]

I will say that FF's catch up was eh at best, lots of IIoA inspires not huge confidence.

I disagree that its iioa, i think that my posts clearly show how i came to read the people im reading the way that im reading them. The page breakdown was mostly for me to organize my own thoughts a little and then i would expand on what I read and how i read it at the bottom of each post.

And to end it all with a full reads list, analysis of the current wagons and a vote to get current is a lot more content than you are making it out to be. If all i did were those page breakdowns then youd have a leg to stand on, but the fact that you dont even engage me on anything i posted during the catch up nor do you seem like you wanna talk about my vote or any of my reads, so I guess I question how much I care about your opinion when youve already made it up without any direct input from me.

[Formerfish]

I got a flatbread from walmart for dinner tonight. It is surprisingly good.

[Formerfish]

[Formerfish]

Great, I'm having Masquerade reminder induced PTSD, only difference is i dont have a pt with scum in it trying to go for a captured agency win this game.

[Formerfish]

Ceph im here if you wanna dance in real time?

[Formerfish]

Oh, no! This appeal to authority completely destroys my suspicions. I guess people who haven't played with someone before aren't capable of reading that person.

It's an appeal to experience, not authority. Esp *refused* to take a look at my town games where there's clear evidence against his reason for the scumread, whereas people who played with me have it.

Do you have an issue with Dann tring Espy the way he did with no experience and no dive into current meta?

[Formerfish]

Didn't dann say he was just "kick-starting" the game by throwing out such a townread?

He said he's going to post soon, let's see if the read sticks.

Thats true, and fair.

Thanks for acknowledging i posted.

[Formerfish]

I've never been good at this but I guess I could try.

Cool, what do you wanna talk about?

[Formerfish]

I've never been good at this but I guess I could try.

Cool, what do you wanna talk about?

Oh, I was supposed to provide the topic? Well, uhhhh we're somewhat aligned on reads so I'm not sure there are any that need hashing out. I guess you could give me some more words on wgeurts town? is it just similarity to your thought process or is there something else? i had no read on that slot and i feel like i should inspect it based on team feedback.

Well, yeah, unless you wanna try to talk me out of the tr i have on you. If you need to sort me still then you would need to figure out how I can help you do that.

Geurt was an initial tr because his posts felt like the could have been written by myself for the most part, its a gut read based off that mind meld. I wish he had kept it up, looking back I see that he hasnt posted in like 5 days, so reading the thread all at once doesnt show that gap. Knowing he gained initial trs from those posts but then completely dropped off the face of the earth makes me wonder if he was scum towning it up for enough cred to coast on or if he is dead irl town.

[Formerfish]

OK, sure. I probably tend to give townreads for the same reason sometimes even though I'm not really sure it's actually valid. I'll just look forward to hearing more from him I guess!

See I told you I was bad at this! realtime interaction should be really helpful, but I just feel put on the spot!

I guess I remember one thing I used to do in fast paced IRC games. What's your favorite season, fishy?

I looked back over his iso and actually found it a bit lacking in isolation. What pinged me especially was when he had a post saying:

Reading up, been mildly jetlagged as I flew to Australia a few days ago. Expect much more from me.

Then chastised Auro for saying he picked this game because he thought he'd be a little lower key (hint: it totally is, Theme is 54 pages, normal is 82, open is 88, and the large is only at 95. We have 17 pages), so it turns out that Auro was right, and I think hes the highest poster, so the warning from Geurts seems a little silly now that we know what we know about the posting people have done.

Especially when Geurts makes a later post about traveling again and that was one of his last posts.

And its cool man, i do better in figuring people out by talking to them in real time because they have less time to try and figure out angels and you get more honest answers. If you hunt differently, then do you.

I like fall a lot. There more things for me and my daughter to do and there are holidays that we are starting our own traditions for so its cool.

[Formerfish]

I like fall a lot. There more things for me and my daughter to do and there are holidays that we are starting our own traditions for so its cool.

without giving away the game, this qualifies as a town answer, but the whole game probably works much better in a chatroom

I dont understand what you mean, but im not too concerned by it.

[Formerfish]

i'll explain anyway. this is a technique ive seen used in chat mafia, primarily in kingmaker setups where player x is making a decision alone. x asks every player a seemingly irrelevant question and

looks for certain things in their answer.

it probably doesn't work without the pressure of knowing

you live or die based on the answer

too, huh. oh well, it's fun.

Bolded- talk to me about this later, this seems interesting.

Italics- glad i didnt say spring.

[Formerfish]

Auro and Geurts pretty much.

[Formerfish]

OK, sure. I probably tend to give townreads for the same reason sometimes even though I'm not really sure it's actually valid. I'll just look forward to hearing more from him I guess!

See I told you I was bad at this! realtime interaction should be really helpful, but I just feel put on the spot!

I guess I remember one thing I used to do in fast paced IRC games. What's your favorite season, fishy?

I looked back over his iso and actually found it a bit lacking in isolation. What pinged me especially was when he had a post saying:

Reading up, been mildly jetlagged as I flew to Australia a few days ago. Expect much more from me.

Then chastised Auro for saying he picked this game because he thought he'd be a little lower key (hint: it totally is, Theme is 54 pages, normal is 82, open is 88, and the large is only at 95. We have 17 pages), so it turns out that Auro was right, and I think hes the highest poster, so the warning from Geurts seems a little silly now that we know what we know about the posting people have done.

Especially when Geurts makes a later post about traveling again and that was one of his last posts.

And its cool man, i do better in figuring people out by talking to them in real time because they have less time to try and figure out angels and you get more honest answers. If you hunt differently, then do you.

I like fall a lot. There more things for me and my daughter to do and there are holidays that we are starting our own traditions for so its cool.

[Formerfish]

Yes, I'm saying it's null, and therefore not a reason to scumread me.

You are saying that it shouldnt be a scum read because you do the same thing as town sometimes right?

For that to be true then you have to do it sometimes as scum. So maybe thats just what we have here, one of the times you are doing it as scum and you are trying to excuse it by saying you also do it as town so scum reading you is bad.

[Formerfish]

no long useless catch-up

Is this a shot at me?

[Formerfish]

I see. I didn't like picking at Auro for that especially given that I (and seemingly many others put in this game) don't have the most time in the world. That doesn't mean we still can't give it our all. It's scummy in that it's a very non-game related way to push someone but I need to see more from that slot in general.

Also one of the reasons I was very surprised to see NSG put wgeurts in her town block and why I questioned that. I think I saw you were asking me about that, FF?

I think i did, something about why you would listen to anything NSG has said.

[Formerfish]

Dann, I was the original gentleman 2.

Do we have all 3 people who held Gent 2s slot in this game?

[Formerfish]

Dann, I was the original gentleman 2.

Do we have all 3 people who held Gent 2s slot in this game?

I fucking hope not.

uhhh... why?

[Formerfish]

I see. I didn't like picking at Auro for that especially given that I (and seemingly many others put in this game) don't have the most time in the world. That doesn't mean we still can't give it our all. It's scummy in that it's a very non-game related way to push someone but I need to see more from that slot in general.

Also one of the reasons I was very surprised to see NSG put wgeurts in her town block and why I questioned that. I think I saw you were asking me about that, FF?

I think i did, something about why you would listen to anything NSG has said.

I really respect her reads and by extension RC's reads. If someone I know to be a good player is town reading someone, I want to know why. Regardless of whether they're towny or scummy within the specific game.

I mean I ask my scum reads about their reads a lot too, so I'm not sure why you assume I'd want to ignore NSG either way.

I wasnt thinking about who was on her team and how prolific RC might be in their thread. I guess it makes more sense to me now why you were asking.

[Formerfish]

Bc someone came in after me, was a complete dick to people who don't deserve it, and was an all around arsehole.

Dunno who it was during that period though.

You talking about the guy who finished the game and won it for town?

[Formerfish]

Bc someone came in after me, was a complete dick to people who don't deserve it, and was an all around arsehole.

Dunno who it was during that period though.

You talking about the guy who finished the game and won it for town?

no

I started in Masq in post 821 and finished the game as G2.

[Formerfish]

Haven't read them in detail yet.

Who do you have a good grasp on? Are you caught up fully?

[Formerfish]

I haven't scum read Ceph at all this game—yeah I know I voted him

Also, if you werent scumreading Ceph, whyd you vote him?

I noticed you said you were reading now, ill shut up.

[Formerfish]

FF can you tell me where you stand on Ceph/Esp now?

Ceph i see as town, and im pretty confident in that read. Espy is a townlean with a good lean. I know youre having issues with them, but is it just the recent spat between you 3 or is there more to it?

[Formerfish]

Oh no, I'm warming up to a Ceph townread.
What makes you feel Esp is town though?
For starters, his attack on me feels very disingenuous (Ceph has the same line of attack but that doesn't). Read his ISO - there's an unexplained scumread on Dunn, a weak push on you, what else?

I did feel like Espy took a little while to get going, his first like 8 posts are useless to me.

282 though he took his first stance, and it was a push on you, but i liked his explanation in 297.

I didn't realize how many posts he made regarding people not actually playings reads on him though, there are like 3 of them i saw/remember. This could be that he wanted to avoid people who could read him well (didnt he say he ended up here because of conflicts in other games?) and dont want their teammates in this game to listen to them.

I liked 355 as well, felt motivated towards working the game out. Wasn't thrilled about being accused of IIoA, but I'm not going to let it rustle my jimmies.

Don't mind his obstinance towards meta reads, if people are aware of metas they can be manipulated. What I don't like is his insistence that talking about meta=modkillable.

I liked him in the You/Him thing because I don't like your premise or conclusions.

I guess looking back the tr is more shaky than I had originally felt, but dont feel like it adds up to more then a lesser town lean.

[Formerfish]

Why didn't you like my questioning of Gob? Like you say there could be more here but don't really expand on that, and it's one of the issues I had skimming last night. Like Gob's posting was one of the only bits of content in the game at the time, idk what else you wanted me to engage with, was it how I engaged with it?

For me it was the fact that I didnt have an issue with his question. I didnt think that it was one that was unnecessary and I get why he would have had to not out why he was asking just yet because it would ruin whatever he could gain from it. Also most people answered it without really having much of an issue so how much attention it got was in my mind disproportionate.

In very general terms, I think scum are a little more aware of their progressions and making sure they make sense or that there's a paper trail.

Ive seen plenty of scum flip reads on a dime because they smelled a shift in the wind before the rest of us felt it tickle our ball hairs.

I addressed this too but I think Auro approached the read differently, even if they got to the same conclusion. I took specific issue with the way Dong did what he did, not what he did specifically.

Can you point out where, i dont remember seeing it.

This frustrates me a little. I pushed you! I thought you were scummy and wanted to engage with you, but you kinda disappeared for a couple days. So I pushed Dong instead because he did something that pinged me, and that didn't go anywhere. I feel like those were both "my" pushes. My "random stuff" is not based on nothing, just small things in an attempt to give the game more content—as it feels we're recycling some of the same arguments a lot.

I dunno, if it were me I either would have kept at me and made noise in the thread or would have put me on the back burner and looked for one of my buddies. I dont really remember you taking many stances on people but remembered a lot of you questioning other peoples reads.

[Formerfish]

and I still wanna talk with you, but I'm not as disgusted by your push on me as I was last night and I quite like the rest of your catchup

VOTE: Dongempire

Im here my dude, and trust me im not sold on you being scum. You and Dunn could easily switch positions for me here. I think we are much more likely to find scum in Auro/Joan/Dong.

[Formerfish]

As you say, no one has issue with answering it. It didn't add anything much to the game.

I agree it fell flat, especially after him making as big of a deal as he did, but im saying i get why he did that and dont have an issue with it. We are just going to have to view this differently.

here:

Thats fair.

Me going after Dong was putting you on the backburner and looking for another scum read. I don't see much point in making more noise in the thread at you if you're just not around. I don't take lurking for a short period of time to be AI.

Also fair, again i think my perception of time in thread is a little off because I pretty much took it all in one swift thrust.

It's probably fair that I've been more in questioning mode than taking stances mode. I have not been able to really bite into some of the content generated this game and I've been trying to help myself latch onto something by asking a lot of questions.

Thats fine, but im not seeing much coming from those questions or really any coherency to them.

[Formerfish]

Dann, what do you think about Joan? 2 posts, neither good.

[Formerfish]

Anything you make from Dong's trajectory on me?

The way you two went at it and then voted around each other, each other, and then with each other was weird as fuck.

[Formerfish]

Don't look at it from an associative angle for now, I'd say evaluate them separately. I explained the context behind my voting and unvoting him.
Besides, you surely must have seen this happen for TvT before, no?

Im looking at it individually as well, so its not that those actions are intrinsically linked and you guys are town without that little dance.

[Formerfish]

@FF: Can you summarize your concerns with me once again?

I feel like you are picking very small points of contention and are trying to magnify them into a hill you feel ok dying on.

It all feels very forced and fake to me, like youre scum who felt like acting this way would gain you a different read and now are flailing trying to figure out what youre doing that is so telling.

[Formerfish]

*Sigh*
I mean, the points of contention are that I am scum for XYZ, and it will literally be a hill I die on if they go uncontested
Same exercise: Can you pick out 'points of contention' that you think are unworthy of contesting?

FWIW, if I was scum I wouldn't be active in the way I am right now, I'd just lay low while other wagons happen.

If you had to bullet point the pushes youve made so far with a elevator pitch on what was going on what would you put?

And maybe you would, maybe you wouldnt. Again, you know your meta and are able to play with it purposefully.

[Formerfish]

because I feel like the gamestate has stalled a long time with Auro as the most pushed player and top wagon and... what is scum doing if he's scum

I feel like 1 scum is non-existent in the thread.

I think the other is probably pushing me.

[Formerfish]

Joan: Agree with Dunn's reasoning on her, at least to make me not want to lynch her right now.

Hold up. You agree with Dunn when he said that she was staying out of the fray with nothing else to add to the push on Gob? Almost 500 posts in its a little ridiculous that she has said 7 words in 2 posts...

Even if she was doing what you two say, not saying anything is a very weird tactic to take on a dying wagon.

[Formerfish]

And having no reads on geurts or NSG while having a read on Joan is lol

[Formerfish]

At the point she voted it wasn't a dying wagon, she simply hopped on the biggest one. I said I agreed with his reasoning at least to not want to lynch her for now, not that I think she's town.

Yeah, she came in and voted the popular wagon at the time and never gave an indication that she was caught up in the thread and making her own read, sheeping someone elses read, never gave any indication to anything because she hasn't spoken in like 4 days and even when she does speak its not quantity or quality shes going for.

I think you are both giving her waaaaayyyyyyyy to much credit. And i'm not saying you are giving her a lot, but what credit you are giving her is too much. And if Dunn really believes that view point than lol

[Formerfish]

Yes, and Dunn's reasoning is that for *her* it's more town indicative than scum indicative - if she were scum she'd drum up some opposition to the wagon, etc, wouldn't sheep and lurk away.

Would you want to lynch her, if not me?

I didnt realize that there was a meta read being relied on for Joan, ive never played with her, so im taking the play at face value and im reminded of my first TM in 2015 where i froze after replacing into a teammates game. I could see this being out of someones league and just figuring it out and trying to lurk it out to hide. Its not like shes a pr trying to hide to make it til night to use her ability, we literally have no clue about her whatsoever and no one else seems to care that she is literally less than skating through the day because that would include not getting prodded which she has been.

I don't think i could get enough support for that lynch, but you guys are neck and neck in my book, you win out because theres been more to examine and what ive seen seems scummy to me. What i havent seen from Joan is what my issue is there and that reasoning is less strong in my mind.

[Formerfish]

go back in your browser to get to it

[Formerfish]

If you had to bullet point the pushes youve made so far with a elevator pitch on what was going on what would you put?

Thats cause you never responded to this.

[Formerfish]

Ceph: Lots of disagreements, can get a feel of why he thinks what he is.
Esp: Disingenuous attacks, lack of content - coasting on Auro push.
FF: Wasn't impressed with content prior to the walls, marked for re-evaluation, like the willingness to engage.
Dunn: Passive, find him reasonable, but does that make him town? Idk.
Joan: Agree with Dunn's reasoning on her, at least to make me not want to lynch her right now.
Dann: I want to call his play... political, but I have some reasons to believe he's town, but he's a great scum player as well, argh~ I'll stick to town for now.
NSG: No comments right now, she has to play the game first, but not willing to lynch anyway.
Wgeurts: No thoughts. That first push on inactivity does feel like posturing, but idk.
Dong: I felt his reaction to my push was towny, but I think I should talk to Dann more about this sometime.
KittyMo: I forgot what I thought of this player before.

On a gamestate level my hunch is that there's scum prolly in the lurkers, and not all scum are pushing me / townreading me at the same time. I think scum would find it easy to coast while I drum up pages of content arguing over things which only seems to strengthen the pushes on me.

Was this not a tl;dr of my thoughts at this point and what I think is 'going on'?
What did you want specifically?

I took this as more of your reads.

I was looking for what pushes you think youve made that have been substantive.

[Formerfish]

With Joan getting replaced my zeal for that slots demise has lessened a considerable amount.

[Formerfish]

Joan was Yume who is a serial lurker, and I think secret alts are disrespectful in team mafia so I don't feel bad for outting that

I still don't know who that is...

And when I get to my laptop I'll respond to a few things from your bigger post, I just wanna be able to create my post easier.

[Formerfish]

@FF, still unanswered...?

Broski...

And when I get to my laptop I'll respond to a few things from your bigger post, I just wanna be able to create my post easier.

I legit just said that when I get to a laptop I would respond to things. I haven't responded to things because I hadn't gotten to my laptop yet.

Guess what? I'm on my laptop now! Yay! I started to reply to you at like 530 this morning while we were still on but the words starting blending together in ways that made reading entirely not a thing my brain could do anymore.

Chillax cousin, maybe be this aggressive to the people who aren't posting at all, not just the ones who haven't answered your posed question yet.

[Formerfish]

Same exercise: Can you pick out 'points of contention' that you think are unworthy of contesting?

Ok, so my first point is where you defended Gobble to the point you took town point away from someone who even dared go and scum read someone you were tring. There is a logical fallacy in there somewhere but I dont know which one specifically. I do know that you are using a chainsaw defense and that is scummy.

I admit I've just skimmed

This is why i feel you should have let it go a lot sooner. You arent an expert on Gobs play, you skimmed two games that have shades of his scum game and are willing to hang someone else because they dont see what you see in a slot when you see it.

I haven't had a look at his towngame for comparison, I'll do that.

You even admit that the sample size you used was limited to the 2 games he provided. Had you dived into his town games prior to going balls deep on the read i might feel differently about this right now.

I've openly attacked FormerFish, Dunnstral, Cephrir; I've hard-defended Gobbledygook in the last few pages, which stances of mine do you find 'incredibly safe'?

This came off lamist and the vote on Dong as a result of your guys misunderstanding or whatever was weak.

195 you respond for Dong to Ceph about his playstyle, i didn't think it was necessary to get involved there. You continue talking about Cephs playstyle in 198. 219 i didnt like how you were inviting the other players outside the game to contribute directly to the reads on you.

Haven't looked at a town game yet, but I'm not really interested much either at this point. The expected result of my looking there is to end up at a nullread on gobble, and not a scumread.

Here is another post where you talk about meta but mention that you wont look at his town games because at the worst he goes back to null for you.

I don't know, independent of her meta tell for being scum, the fact that she left her vote on wgeurts despite naming him as one of her THREE town reads seems pretty bad coming from the Paragon.

Do note that this is Team Mafia: even if she rolled scum, her teammates would readily divert some attention here, no? I can't imagine them taking "lurking" as a scum strategy here...

Lurking as a scum strat has a much higher negative impact than lurking right now as town, though.

VOTE: FormerFish

This felt disingenuous to me too. You talk about how scum wouldnt be lurking, and then vote me who you accuse of lurking when there were like 4 or 5 slots who were less active and had less content at that time as well.

Around the 350's you started in on Espy and i felt like that exchange was forced and silly. (Didn't like Espy calling for you to be modkilled for meta talk)

Sorry this is taking so long, i keep getting distracted by these youtube videos about people buying amazons overstock and returns by the pallet and they are talking fucking crazy shit like buying 4 pallets for 25 bucks total.

[Formerfish]

I'm kinda thinking about getting into the reselling business. I already dabble in it on eBay and have figured out the shipping much better than before so I'm not as intimidated.

[Formerfish]

I didn't like how he came in and gave inconclusive reads then townread everyone, it looks scummy to me, and so i thought Cephrir's vote there made sense.

Fair, how is Dann hitting you now?

He was townleaning Gobble before this, it seems to be in response to Gobble coming in and not posting anything again

People need to let some questions and gambits marinate in the thread. I think people sometimes jump at everything and dont see how sometimes if they see something they should just shut their mouths and watch what happens as a result of the thing you noticed.

The nsg thing is a totally separate inquiry.

Ok, I just don't often ask people im scumreading why they are scumreading other people.

That was me, by the way

What was you? The scum trying to whisper into my ear?

I'm not so sure on her but I don't want to lynch her just for doing nothing, in this game, because I want to win. Day 2 or day 3, if she's still doing nothing/hasn't been replaced, we can take a harsher look at her based on information we have, right now though it's a lame lynch

I've just seen play from scum recently like that where they legit said nothing and somehow a couple of newbies sniffed her out and we lynched there, that was in the infamous newbie 1942. Again Im a sucker for recency bias.

[Formerfish]

These people got 8 pallets for like less than $100. That shits crazy. I need to find these places...

[Formerfish]

Quick response:
1. You have an incorrect understanding of the chainsaw defense. For reference; https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... aw_Defense. Docking a 'few town points' is not remotely equal to calling them 'very probably scum'.

I don't think im misunderstanding it, "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum".

This is saying that a player (you) who defends another player (Gob) by attacking the other players (Gob) attacker (Dunn) is very probably scum.

I'm not saying that the points have anything to do with the chainsaw, it is legit calling you scum for attacking Dunn for calling Gob scum.

2. Again, did I say I wanted to hang Dunn? Which post of mine remotely implied that? I was simply debating the read. Read the context behind that exchange again?

For a chainsaw defense you dont have to lynch Dunn, you just have to attack him for attacking Gob.

3. Third time I'm saying this, my vote on Dong was more of a reaction test. My asking Ceph about his teammates' reads was to test if his claim (that his teammates had a read) was bullshit or genuine.

That's fine, ill admit those posts between you two were hard to parse.

4. Yes, I won't look at meta with priority because the worst-case scenario is the Turkey going to null, which isn't useful, what's wrong with that? What prevents scum!me from actually going through the games and posting some shit?

I dunno, I feel like we should be trying to sort everyone and you seem to have arbitrarily tred him and are using that read to base your reads on other people, I feel like thats dangerous on its head.

5. You're misinterpreting 350 too! I wasn't accusing you of lurking! I was talking about NSG. My vote on you was independent of the first statement.

I apologize if I took the comments about lurking personally when I read that in the same post you voted me in.

6. Why was it silly on my part?

Because a lot of what you were saying was like "i do that as anything so you shouldnt scum read me for it" which is like the epitome of caught for the wrong reasons. You feel like you have been able to emulate your town game well enough here that you are taken aback that people might be scumreading you. I just dont see the benefit in using reasoning that has no way ot help us sort you.

I think most of your concerns with me are misinterpretations, so... look over the contexts again?

I guess some of the things get explained away with your added context to your posts, and honestly I have been liking you more since we starting interacting.

If you and I arent the lynch today, I dont think Gob is either, where do we go?

[Formerfish]

T: Ceph, Hop

TL: Kitty, Espy, Gob

N: Dunn, NSG, Joan

SL: Auro, Wgeurt

S: Dann, Dong

I feel like there have been a lot of changes to these reads since i caught up and interacted with different people.

I feel like im more here now.

Auro where are you on Dann right now?

[Formerfish]

Why is it that every time I want to go to bed I am wide the fuck awake but get sleepy when I want to be up? What kind of bullshit shenanigans is my body putting me though?

I might as well get up an be semi productive.

[Formerfish]

I took Gobs 344 way differently than you did. I'll wait for Gob to chime in before I give my 2 cents though.

[Formerfish]

former would have to come second

Are you caught up? Nothing in my iso has made you reconsider your read on me at all? What is your read on me based on? I don't remember seeing you ever really say why you don't like me.

I mean, I don't like your slot this game, but i think that you could figure that out from my posting, you on the other hand not so much.

[Formerfish]

I didn't realize Geurts was getting replaced. Wifey you have a hole to climb out of.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Formerfish

I am disappoint.

[Formerfish]

@Fish: for the one I'm talking about on the last page, how did you get that down so fast? If it was in real time it feels like you didn't have much time to think?

Wanna translate this for me? I don't like answering riddles when they make no sense.

[Formerfish]

Hey hoppy

[Formerfish]

Are you asking me how 365 came 20 minutes after 364?

[Formerfish]

Cool.

When did I post 360?

[Formerfish]

Just imagine me like Joe Pesci in My Cousin Vinny, unfortunately you are going to be a bumpkin on the stand.

[Formerfish]

You don't wanna play Hoppy? Or are you trying to figure out where you fucked up? Not good to build pushes on faulty premises.

[Formerfish]

A while later. Relevant how?

Negative.

357 first wall, pages 1-5, 12:18a

360 second wall, pages 6-10, 1:33a

361 time for a break, 1:34a

363 I accidentally post a naked quote from 346, 2:49a

364 Pay no attention to my naked quote, 2:50a

365 third wall, pages 11-15, 3:11a. Also note, post 346 which I accidentally quoted was the 2nd to last post i used in my third wall.

[Formerfish]

oh i see what you mean, you made those shorter posts while that one was in draft. That makes sense

Hop 'Hopenhop' Hop

Aaaaaayyy, he got there.

And I'll answer CT here as well. Your slot dropped off because when I read the thread in one go i liked that slot, then i realized how dormant it went after bitching at someone for saying they might not give 100% attention to this game.

CT, did you iso me, because if you did you would have seen the post i made about why my read changed on geurts and why he went from a townleanish to a scumlean.

Thats why i said you had a whole to climb out of as soon as you came into the thread.

I feel like both arguments Hoppy and CT are using against me are bad premises because they either missed info crucial to their basis or they ignored something i totally said.

[Formerfish]

I've never been good at this but I guess I could try.

Cool, what do you wanna talk about?

Oh, I was supposed to provide the topic? Well, uhhhh we're somewhat aligned on reads so I'm not sure there are any that need hashing out. I guess you could give me some more words on wgeurts town? is it just similarity to your thought process or is there something else? i had no read on that slot and i feel like i should inspect it based on team feedback.

Well, yeah, unless you wanna try to talk me out of the tr i have on you. If you need to sort me still then you would need to figure out how I can help you do that.

Geurt was an initial tr because his posts felt like the could have been written by myself for the most part, its a gut read based off that mind meld. I wish he had kept it up, looking back I see that he hasnt posted in like 5 days, so reading the thread all at once doesnt show that gap. Knowing he gained initial trs from those posts but then completely dropped off the face of the earth makes me wonder if he was scum towning it up for enough cred to coast on or if he is dead irl town.

OK, sure. I probably tend to give townreads for the same reason sometimes even though I'm not really sure it's actually valid. I'll just look forward to hearing more from him I guess!

See I told you I was bad at this! realtime interaction should be really helpful, but I just feel put on the spot!

I guess I remember one thing I used to do in fast paced IRC games. What's your favorite season, fishy?

I looked back over his iso and actually found it a bit lacking in isolation. What pinged me especially was when he had a post saying:

Reading up, been mildly jetlagged as I flew to Australia a few days ago. Expect much more from me.

Then chastised Auro for saying he picked this game because he thought he'd be a little lower key (hint: it totally is, Theme is 54 pages, normal is 82, open is 88, and the large is only at 95. We have 17 pages), so it turns out that Auro was right, and I think hes the highest poster, so the warning from Geurts seems a little silly now that we know what we know about the posting people have done.

Especially when Geurts makes a later post about traveling again and that was one of his last posts.

And its cool man, i do better in figuring people out by talking to them in real time because they have less time to try and figure out angels and you get more honest answers. If you hunt differently, then do you.

I like fall a lot. There more things for me and my daughter to do and there are holidays that we are starting our own traditions for so its cool.

Are we all talking about Auro right now

Auro and Geurts pretty much.

I don't remember wgeurts doing much of anything, what is there to talk about

OK, sure. I probably tend to give townreads for the same reason sometimes even though I'm not really sure it's actually valid. I'll just look forward to hearing more from him I guess!

See I told you I was bad at this! realtime interaction should be really helpful, but I just feel put on the spot!

I guess I remember one thing I used to do in fast paced IRC games. What's your favorite season, fishy?

I looked back over his iso and actually found it a bit lacking in isolation. What pinged me especially was when he had a post saying:

Reading up, been mildly jetlagged as I flew to Australia a few days ago. Expect much more from me.

Then chastised Auro for saying he picked this game because he thought he'd be a little lower key (hint: it totally is, Theme is 54 pages, normal is 82, open is 88, and the large is only at 95. We have 17 pages), so it turns out that Auro was right, and I think hes the highest poster, so the warning from Geurts seems a little silly now that we know what we know about the posting people have done.

Especially when Geurts makes a later post about traveling again and that was one of his last posts.

And its cool man, i do better in figuring people out by talking to them in real time because they have less time to try and figure out angels and you get more honest answers. If you hunt differently, then do you.

I like fall a lot. There more things for me and my daughter to do and there are holidays that we are starting our own traditions for so its cool.

I could keep going CT.

[Formerfish]

Yeah and since Dunn implied he isn't good at reading Auro I don't get why he cares so much about trying to bring in Auro meta.

Meta works in two ways.

1. Auro does X as scum and never as town, he must be scum (or) Auro does X as town and not as scum, he must be town
2. X is an invalid reason to scumread Auro because I've noticed it in his towngames

You don't need to be good at reading Auro to make the second point.

This is a bad argument.

If you do something 300 times as scum and 1 time as town, should we not lynch you the 302 time you do something because one time out of the previous 301 times you did that you were town?

The argument that "I know that's scummy, but I do it as town too!" Doesn't mean you shouldn't get lynched here, it means that the players in the other games where you played scummy should have lynched you to change your behavior.

[Formerfish]

weakness

This is the 2nd time youre mentioning a weak player list and it's hard to not be a little offended.

Do you think your mafia prowess is being wasted amongst us plebians?

[Formerfish]

I wasn't so certain that I wasn't willing to listen to anything they had to say.

Thats fair, I also would have accepted "I wanted to see if they would give true or fake associations"

Lady 9

You minx! You had a shot to sway me in that pt if you talked more, hell I probably would have eaten it hook, line and sinker because I was more confused by the lack of knowing who was who than I thought I would be.

OK, but Joan does it as both alignments

Isn't this the same argument that Auro is trying to use about why no one should scum read him for his "NAI" actions?

Why does everybody have me as null? Are people afraid to try to read me or do they not bother to read what I'm saying?

You aren't null because I have no read, youre null because the read I have on you keeps going back and forth like a metronome and I cant figure out where to stop it yet.

[Formerfish]

I was going to wall again, but Im high and feel a little wordy and like things might not flow if i bunched everything together. Enjoy this next few hours postings.

despite what I've said I don't actually want to lynch nsg day 1, I was just hoping wagoning her would be effective in getting her to play and ehhhhhh

I've been thinking about this a little bit. If NSGs team is pulling her to other games where they need help do you think that they would do that with her as scum or as town? If she is scum then wouldn't her team make shes in here making noise so she doesnt take this heat? If she is town then they probably assume that they can borrow her for the time being with the idea that she can come in here and town it up when she needs to.

This is all kinda working under the idea that we are incapable of finding scum on our own and that we need her to come save us.

I think that we have a good deal of info going into this first lynch and that we will have a better understanding of the game state when we see a few flips.

[Formerfish]

It's more a question of trust.

I have no trust in the other players in this game, so I feel a bit man against the world bc I don't feel comfortable bouncing ideas off anyone here so I'm trying to brute force. Look I'm happy to be proven wrong but at the moment.

This sounds a lot like how I feel when I play most times. I think thats why I adopted the play style that I have. Like if you looked at newbie 1942 I was right the entire time but had to fight tooth and nail to get there and almost didnt. I had to kill myself to get scum to concede overnight.

I feel like at some point in games where you feel like this, and when i do, i find someone who i connect with and I agree to work with them until they prove to be a detriment to work with. At some point you just have to take a leap of faith on someone and pray you picked smartly.

[Formerfish]

Like it was reinforced early by Auro's complete stubbornness to see how he is not helping at all while other people defended it as a viable course of action. It doesn't even matter if Auro is town or scum, what matters is that it is frankly unacceptable to get repeated requests from multiple people to rethink what they are doing.

The fact that it is still not resolve drained any meagre optimism I might have had about the game.

To answer your question, wasted? no. Is this game feeling more and more like smashing my head against a wall that should have come down ages ago? god yes.

Auro isnt your in thread buddy, find another one you can work with and see if you can find some success that way. If they have good reads, stick with them, if their reads suck hang em later.

[Formerfish]

Idk I feel like no one else is frustrated and I don't get it

I am, but apparently thats just how people view me normally so it might not be showing as well as id think it would.

[Formerfish]

I am uncharacteristically angry at this entire playerlist

Why?

[Formerfish]

I'm sorry if I'm displaying a severe lack of engagement to anyone's ideas. I'm pretty fixated on FF scum and need help seeing where I'm going wrong if that's the case before being able to see Auro scum (due to FFs hop onto the wagon.)

Did you ever respond to my post about why my read on your slot changed? You mentioned never seeing my reasons so I requoted a few times showing you where I talked about it. Care to engage me on that, or do you just want to dance around me this whole time and never let me cut in?

Pedit- Auro- is that the real reason, or are you being cheeky(not teeky)?

[Formerfish]

Are you guys discussing my posts in the scum PT or something? I'm constantly saying "ITS NOT SCUMMY, ITS TOWNY AND I DO IT AS TOWN" and all you guys keep changing it to "ik scummy lulz but I willingly did it in town games and I protect my meta and my buddies here townread me to protect meta hehehehe"

Nice attempt at shade.

"ITS NOT SCUMMY, ITS TOWNY AND I DO IT AS TOWN" but you also do it as scum, which youve said, so we have to figure out if this is a time where you are doing it as town or scum.

What arent you getting about this?

Its like you dont grasp basic ideas of this game. First it was the bad chainsaw defense and now its you telling us that while you do things as both alignments we shoud trust that you are town here because reasons...

[Formerfish]

Okay let's try something different. Probabilistically speaking, one of Dann, Dunn, and I must be town, right? And if none of them think my style is anti-town, there you go: a town perspective who thinks I'm not anti-town. So perhaps you could be wrong?

Town can have their agency captured by scum without knowing it. You saying that town feeling a certain way about you makes you town is a bad logical argument to make. But you seem to enjoy making arguments with logical inconsistencies, like how someone attacking someone you tr is scummy.

[Formerfish]

If she is scum then wouldn't her team make shes in here making noise so she doesnt take this heat? If she is town then they probably assume that they can borrow her for the time being with the idea that she can come in here and town it up when she needs to.

I've addressed this.
If she's scum she'd be held accountable for her pushes, she'd take heat for driving a mislynch.
If she's town she's a prime target for a N1 kill, meaning she'd want to have some impact on the game - making her refusal to play D1 strange.

I dunno, I think there is a good chance that if she really thinks shes going to die tonight that maybe her not doing anything d1 is a decent strategy.

Think about it. If she try-hards today and comes up with a bunch of solid reads, it almost certainly seals her fate tonight. And then we move on and who really listens to dead people when they die?

If she lays low and lets us progress the game scum is going to be forced to make a choice between taking out a vocal town leader from today, or NSG who could potentially be a leader in the future. This gives her the best chance to get to d2 as town imo.

[Formerfish]

You're having a very poor grasp of basic reasoning, FormerFish.

So if I do it as both town and scum, you accept that *scumreading* me for it is equally bad, yeah? Where'd I say you should townread me for it? All I'm saying is that it's not a valid attack.

And no, you have a very wrong understanding of the chainsaw defense. We can talk about that post game.

No, i dont think i so.

Finding you scummy for something you do as both alignments is not bad reasoning, its reasoning you dont like. I could find you scummy because you have 4 letters in your name, thatd be bad reasoning, funny though, it wouldnt always be wrong.

And i would like you to explain how i got the chainsaw defense wrong. Hell, anyone could have told me that i had it wrong when i mentioned it. Someone could have cosigned on your telling me i had it wrong. Radio silence from everyone but you. If im wrong tell me how, dont hang this shit on the line to be aired out later once it doesnt matter.

[Formerfish]

But you seem to enjoy making arguments with logical inconsistencies, like how someone attacking someone you tr is scummy

I explained this in context, you admitted you had changed your viewpoint given context, yet you're bringing up this again?

I never said a chainsaw defense wasnt scummy.

[Formerfish]

Town can have their agency captured by scum without knowing it. You saying that town feeling a certain way about you makes you town is a bad logical argument to make

Oh, so now town has a false perspective because I lulled them and robbed them of their agency... versus Espeonage simply being incorrect.

If someone is an IC does that make everything they say gospel? You are acting like town can never be wrong about a read and therefore we should tr you because someone you tr does?

[Formerfish]

Finding you scummy for something you do as both alignments is not bad reasoning, its reasoning you dont like.

this doesn't make sense

if something is an element of both a player's town game and scum game then doesn't that by definition make it NAI

You dont have personal tells that you look for? How do we ever figure out anyone is scum without PR help if we dont figure these nuances out for ourselves during day play. This game especially.

[Formerfish]

There was no reasoning though

You did something that someone found scummy.

You said thats not scummy, i do that as town too.

People use their own thought process to come to a conclusion based off this and your personal defense.

Its not bad, you just dont like it.

How do you find scum?

[Formerfish]

Sure, I'll explain why your chainsaw defense argument was incorrect. Hold on.

I thought you were answering this here.

[Formerfish]

If someone is an IC does that make everything they say gospel? You are acting like town can never be wrong about a read and therefore we should tr you because someone you tr does?

No, but: you should realize that there's at least

one

reasonable town perspective that thinks Auro is being pro-town, and reassess whether your accusations that he's anti-town carry as much merit as you think it does.

There are multiple people telling you the opposite and you refuse to listen, but you pick out one opinion and want us to change how we see.

How egotistical are you?

[Formerfish]

Sure, I'll explain why your chainsaw defense argument was incorrect. Hold on.

I thought you were answering this here.

[Formerfish]

FF what are you hoping to get out of this debate?

I think im talking myself back into an Auro top scum read and im building my case.

[Formerfish]

Quote the multiple people explaining why it's anti-town.

People don't need to explain things to your liking for it to be true, your role pm dictated that long before you opened your mouth and let us all see which color you got as clearly as you did when you opened the pm.

[Formerfish]

B761DvpHuBw

pedit- Auro dropped lower to a scum lean because of interactions earlier. I was looking at others but had no reason to change my vote at that time. Nothing came up with the people I was scum reading and then this happened and pushed him further back down my list. Should I be more rigid with my read?

[Formerfish]

pedit- Auro dropped lower to a scum lean because of interactions earlier. I was looking at others but had no reason to change my vote at that time. Nothing came up with the people I was scum reading and then this happened and pushed him further back down my list. Should I be more rigid with my read?

[Formerfish]

FF can I get a reads list?

I'm scared that if I interact with you I'll change my mind but I'm pretty sure you're scum.

Are you reading my posts CT? Ive been reaching out to you and you keep ignoring me. Are only talking on your terms? Keep in mind your slot was the one who had lost its luster before you stepped in, not the other way around.

[Formerfish]

I was town in the game she linked.

[Formerfish]

We had a perfect win. Unless she is saying I dont read the same from my town game there to my town game here, I dunno.

[Formerfish]

What's weak is FF's scummy pop-ins and his refusal to elaborate on his reads.

I think its funny that you call me posting regularly in thread as popping in, thats a bit of a misrep.

And it's not that im refusing to elaborate on my reads, its that you have asked me like 3 questions so far, and my response to you has been have you isoed me, which you said you hadnt.

If I'm telling you that all the answers to your questions lie in my iso which at this point isnt very large, and you continuously refuse to read said iso to gain your own insight into my slot then i really have no interest in working with your slot, because thats not working with, thats you giving me busy work to go back throught the thread and repost my already posted posts for you to respond to.

Read my iso, question me about anything you see in there, dont see in there or any specific reads you have an issue with. After you read my iso. I am not going to spoon feed you this. If you want bonbons on the couch Im in, but scummy busy work to convince one person their scum read on me is incoorect isnt high on my list of things to do ever.

[Formerfish]

I was dancing with Dann, Dong was MIA and then Auro wanted to fight me about semantics.

I may not be out there campaigning for peoples votes, but im doing what I need to do to sort people and move towards a lynch. I have some good trs on people, and some good srs.

I dont know how to defend against saying my behavior is different here than in a newbie game other than saying that I dont have ot worry about how nebies are going to view my play or the things I might try to do to gain some info.

I feel like a good amount of people know me and know how i play, i can avoid all the niceities i usually have to engage in to placate to people who might see my aggressiveness and flightiness as scummy.

[Formerfish]

You're not aggressive here at all though. So why is Dann scum? What's your read on me?

Objection Your Honor, the Defense is badgering this witness. These questions have been asked and answered. If the new council needs time to examine the past transcript then I think that a recess is in order.

[Formerfish]

I liked Gerts at first, and then he went away and never came back.

You come in tunnel on me and havent explained why yet. I don't get why you would do that as town because you could have easily pocketed me wifey. Instead you chose to be kinda adversarial towards me.

[Formerfish]

[Formerfish]

Cheeky I don't know if you're looking for a formal invite for us to interact, cause I'm not sure why you are unable to ask me whatever you wanna talk about.

Like I said go read my iso and to come back with questions about my reads or anything you wanted to talk about, did I miss a response to that or are you still just trying to compare my play here to how I play as an SE in newbie games?

This is a very different game for many reasons. First of all I have 3 other players looking at the game and giving their takes and opinions on people so I dont have to do all my hunting here since I have some good fucking partners helping me there. Second, the last time i did a TM i played horribly and Im trying to not repeat that performance. Third, sue me If I wanna take this game a little more serious since im having some issues with inadequacy on site and maybe if I actually play well here and show people im not some chuckle fuck that ill feel better.

I can go back to shotgunning anything that moves if you really want me to, but I think that time is gone in this game and you missed it. We are here now and you wanna talk but whenever you talk to me it doesnt seem like you are talking about what you want to talk about.

[Formerfish]

You could start with sorting the votes that came onto your wagon like a town person about to be lynched would do.

Uhhh what?

[Formerfish]

I will hang Dann or Auro right now, CT maybe her arguments against me feel very contrived, but she claims a case is coming, so...

[Formerfish]

Ff would you vote gobble

Neither me or Auro are getting lynched today

I don't love it, but I could vote there if Dong isnt a possibility, I'd rather see him swing over Gob.

[Formerfish]

Is no one else getting klaxons going off in all directions from Dunn's reaction to the FF momentum?

Because that is ringing so clear at me right now.

What do you do when your town reads are being pushed, let them die?

[Formerfish]

Wait sorry

Ff

You still think I’m scum?

I would need to go back and dive into you again. Im coming off a little spat of insomnia so the past few days are blurring together for me.

I remember feeling different about you but cant remember why.

[Formerfish]

FF, your team was giving you inputs: can you specify what exactly?

Its less that they are giving me reads and more that I am using them as a sounding board for my own reads and we are talking them out there, like they are helping me flesh things out a little better than just being in my head.

Its not like Elsa is yelling at me that i need to vote anyone in particular, I'm just using my team like a neighborhood filled with ghosts, like The Frighteners.

[Formerfish]

FF, I would still like to hear the discussions around your thoughts, paraphrased.

All of them? You may want to filter your request a little. Some are NSFW. Well, most.

[Formerfish]

if we could wagon Dunn right now, would you join?

Not unless something major changed. Call me pocketed by hanging someone vocally supporting me for town when I know hes right doesnt seem right to me.

Like I owuld need to see if someone he pushed ended up being scum or town to figure that out. All I know is that right now you are asking me to kill the sane person in the room imo.

[Formerfish]

if we could wagon Dunn right now, would you join?

Not unless something major changed. Call me pocketed by

not

hanging someone vocally supporting me for town when I know hes right doesnt seem right to me.

Like I owuld need to see if someone he pushed ended up being scum or town to figure that out. All I know is that right now you are asking me to kill the sane person in the room imo.

ebwop

[Formerfish]

This is fucking bullshit. NSG doesnt play for the entire day phase and then swoops in to revive my dying wagon and now I'm at l-1.

Fuck it. Lynch me. I have done nothing but play my game the best that I can and if you muppets cant see the town in what ive done then fucking put me out of my misery because i dont feel like banging my head on that rock while pushing it up the hill only to have it tip over the other side every fucking time.

I'll just go back to newbie games and pretend that TM never happened just like in 2015.

[Formerfish]

Seriously, its nice to know that you guys would rather lynch an active me than an inactive NSG.

I'll go back to fucking off now.

I hope you all get rekt.

[Formerfish]

If NSG wants to make this into a 1v1 then I'll gladly take her on.

VOTE: NSG

[Formerfish]

NSG wasn't playing when her teams games were playing because they needed her there. Then a bunch of those games went to night phase and we still have no NSG. Then she comes in and cries connectivity issues.

I play 90% of my time on my phone and that shit connect anywhere. And making a post takes fucking seconds.

Dann you can go fuck yourself.

[Formerfish]

Sorry FF if you're town, but I'd rather take NSG later into the game than you as it stands.

I'd hang him just for this comment.

Thanks for letting me know that a fucking empty space is better than having me around Dann.

[Formerfish]

FF reads list please?

Fuck off.

[Formerfish]

Thoughts on lynching Dunn?

Negative.

[Formerfish]

Thanks cap.
VOTE: Formerfish

Nsg/cheeky/maybe hop

I could vote here for sure. Votes me but doesn't have me as scum...

[Formerfish]

Sure, I'm not sure how productive it'll be right now.

[Formerfish]

My reads are fleshed out and have been discussed at length.

Did you read the conversation I had with CT about this whole thing? If you didn't then I get it, but if you did do you think doing the same thing she did and got the response from me that she did, and I call her wifey.

What specifically do you want to talk about? I'm not into this broad tell me about yourself style of convo.

[Formerfish]

I realized just now that half the time I post I don't finish thoughts, like that 2nd paragraph, I was saying if it turned out the way it did for CT do you think it'll turn out better for you?

[Formerfish]

You should at least talk to Auro even if you're mad at me.

Guys it's not that I'm mad at either of you, I feel like you're asking me to do busy work to satisfy your need to read me but I dont care at this point.

If you read my posts then you'll see my thoughts. I find it's disingenuous of all the people saying I'm content lite when they aren't reading my posts it seems.

People who want to talk to me: come with a specific topic.

[Formerfish]

I don't think anyone on my team has read any of the other games.

Only Nancy read my game and had the same thoughts so there's nothing much in terms of discussions, but yeah, I'd like to hear whatever FF has to offer.

@FF or is there nothing and you guys haven't discussed at all? That's okay too, except it's the most likely thing that'll convince me not to lynch you.

I've mostly been venting about what's been going on in the game and they are talking me off the ledge of doing stupid things. We aren't reading each other's games, but we use the topic to talk about things and get their reads on what I'm seeing here.

[Formerfish]

I feel like my reads are a bit biased because it feels like half the thread wants me to die and the other half wants me to live.

Trying to figure out wagon comp in a game like this without any flips is like trying to piss in the toilet with the lights off.

[Formerfish]

I've mostly been venting about what's been going on in the game and they are talking me off the ledge of doing stupid things. We aren't reading each other's games, but we use the topic to talk about things and get their reads on what I'm seeing here.

Yes, so I want a loose paraphrase of the messages themselves.
Like:
"I said this, then X said that, then I said that"

Lately it's been about what NSG could be doing. The pop in and push on me made a little sense to me because RC has a history of success with pushing a mislynch on me when playing as scum. Would he have NSG vote me here and base it off his ability to read me?

My team wasn't on much, but they talked me out ifbswlf hammering because when I flippped green you guys would have known NSG was scum and we could stop this shit tomorrow.

[Formerfish]

People who want to talk to me: come with a specific topic.[/quote

FF you scumread wgeurts for going MIA and on my entrance you said I had a hole to climb out of. What kind of read is that even? Since when is disappearing AI?

Your read on my slot didn't make sense.

Ok. I read the thread in one go, like 15 pages. I liked Geurts in that read through, but then realized at the time I read it he had been MIA for 5 days and then quickly replaced out.

In itself that's not a big deal but Geuts made a big deal to shit on Auto when he said he might not be as active. It was especially scummy when Geurts replaced out after that.

Then you replaced in and immediately pushed me.

[Formerfish]

Lately it's been about what NSG could be doing. The pop in and push on me made a little sense to me because RC has a history of success with pushing a mislynch on me when playing as scum. Would he have NSG vote me here and base it off his ability to read me?

My team wasn't on much, but they talked me out ifbswlf hammering because when I flippped green you guys would have known NSG was scum and we could stop this shit tomorrow.

I'm sorry man, but a brief tl;Dr is not what I'm looking for, but a paraphrasing of the messages themselves.

In this format.
"I said this
He said that
She said this
So I said that"

Etc.

Yeah, I'm not doing that.

[Formerfish]

Why won't I copy and paste the posts from my teams private thread into this thread?

Well, they aren't on and I don't have redaction privilege and because what the fuck man, why don't we all just post all of our posts from the TM pts?

[Formerfish]

Then you replaced in and immediately pushed me.

Why didn't you push back or try to sort me?

Because if you were scum reading me then I wouldn't be able to get a read for you based off that, so I'd have to see where you landed on other people and what legit pushes you made. I can't do that engaging you directly. And don't forget, I emplored you to read my iso and ask questiona.

I feel like I owe a response to aomeone, kitty maybe about a gobble thing from way earlier?

[Formerfish]

As engaging as this is to dance with 2 partners, I'm going to go dry my balls so I can sell them on Facebook. Or eBay. I don't know yet.

Pedit- I paraphrased. You want me to expand on the paraphrasing.

[Formerfish]

I brought up newbie 1942 where I was a bit fighting against town whinhad been pocketed by scum, and the last scum. In the end we had a way to mechanically win, or they could just trust me and we would win earlier. In the end I hammered myself, flipped town, and scum conceded over night.

Reundo was on at the time and he talked to me about how the situations differed, like game state and TM, and said not to give up.

Then he apologized for not being more up to date but he hadn't been reading as much. He did mention that some of the trajectories onto my wagon didn't make sense and he said NSg was one of them.

Said her vote seemed survivalistic and lacked any real insight other than I was the non her wagon .

[Formerfish]

I feel like I owe a response to aomeone, kitty maybe about a gobble thing from way earlier?

I literally just acknowledged it Mo.

Give me a minute.

[Formerfish]

Also it is quite unfortunate because I purposefully lurking at the close of the weekend to see if this game would pick up activity if I was not at the center of it and then I had a 20 hour monday and time has just continued to slip away from me. Looking back I shouldn't have purposefully removed myself from the discussion, but live and learn I guess.

Here is the way i took this.

Weekends are notoriously slow and the activity drops down for many reasons. I dont understand them as you would figure that on the weekend people would have more, not less, time but whatever.

I feel like Gob is one of those players whose activity drops on the weekend and what he was saying is that toward the end of the weekend he was checking out the thread to see what was going on when he wasnt the one that everyone was punching and kicking like a crips jump in initiation.

Then he ran into some time that he didnt expect to be under radio silence and explained it all.

I didn't take that as scummy I felt like he was trying to watch people who didnt know they were being watched to see what they would do in their natural behavior.

[Formerfish]

I mean why explain it as scum when you could just not post like NSG, Joan and Geurts for weeks without dying?

[Formerfish]

Totally didnt get that whole post was about me. I saw the line after you @ed me and thought the rest was for NSG because you spoiled it.

Give me a little more time, now i get why you were so insistent, i thought it was just the throw away question.

[Formerfish]

I will hang Dann or Auro right now, CT maybe her arguments against me feel very contrived, but she claims a case is coming, so...

Was there any discussion in your PT about this?

No, that was where my head was at if we needed to go to a compromise that wasnt NSG or me.

[Formerfish]

Apologies in advance, I know this is highly annoying.

What about mid game discussions? Before people started wagoning you. Can you give me that?

i can give a fast one if you need it now, im in the middle of tryong to do 1153.

Reundo replaced in, he asked us a few questions.

Elsa and Dave said they hadnt been reading other games.

I mentioned the replace ins for CT and BB, no one responded.

Elsa said they lynched scum in that game, i said "baller".

Then reundo got lynched

We did talk about you a bit, when we were going at it i was trying to figure out if anyone knew if it was town or scum for you, no one was on, and then when they were they didnt really respond to that.

They talked about Creature and what happened with him.

Like i said, we just kinda bounce ideas off each other when we need to, and until the NSG thing there hasnt been much

[Formerfish]

I don't get why you don't suspect Dunn more from it.

I think Dunn responded to me about this saying he wasnt sure he didnt want to listen to what he had to say. That made sense to me, making scum say something explicitly is a good way to catch an inconsistency later.

[Formerfish]

Shit, im high, thats a snip, with a lot more to come...

[Formerfish]

Hopkirk townread has the least established progression in your posts.

Once he dropped the shtick and started to dive into the thread and make reads I was vibing with the earnestness of his posts and thoughts.

This kind of makes me feel worse about your manner of posting today (as in when I'm writing this post). Because I feel like there was a lot of thread activity to dig into and I don't feel the energy of you suddenly having more of a real-time opportunity than you usually have in the game.

Shrug? The only people ive been seeing want to fight me. I dont want to fight.

I'm not entirely sure this is a logical following from your earlier expressed thoughts on her including that.

I have never played with NSG and dont know her from around the site, the only thing I have to go off of is who fanbois over her and what I see in the scummies nom thread.

And obviously if people are willing to lynch me over her empty seat then I think that my assumption has been proven correct.

beginnings of a case

One that was abandoned.

But your re-entrance is very...calm toward those people, main reaction to goings-on is that Dunn is the "sane one."

I'm still absorbing info from the thread and guess that I wanted to try a little honey over my normal vinegar, maybe take my own advice against Auro?

[Formerfish]

Thanks a lot, FF. That helps a lot.
Could you also ask if Reundo can prioritize this game a bit and offer detailed thoughts of his own, too?

Yeah, he did something for another game and as soon as he posted that in our thread it became moot because of a change that happened and then other things, it would have been funny if it wasnt so much work.

[Formerfish]

Dong is our most likely option. Thoughts?

Sweetie, if you'd put your phone down while im driving and talking to you youd already know this,

Thanks cap.
VOTE: Formerfish

Nsg/cheeky/maybe hop

I could vote here for sure. Votes me but doesn't have me as scum...

I think we need to see a therapist, its like you dont want to be with me anymore.

[Formerfish]

My willingness to vote him wasnt based off that, just where i said I would vote him.

I mentioned it before in another post but didnt feel like searching for that one.

[Formerfish]

I think BBMolla is scummy

Of the 3 "lurkers" id see him die first if he was a viable option. Hes done less than nsg in twice as many posts.

[Formerfish]

What's wrong with Dong?

I dont like the angle of his dangle.

[Formerfish]

That's nice, but it doesn't explain how you keep pointing to wagon resistance but think that both of these people can be scum

Obviously our partner is pushing a vanity wagon (Looking at you Hoppy, come on, let's play).

[Formerfish]

If you guys won't go NSG and I can't interest anyone in a Dong lynch I can vote BB.

VOTE: Bb

[Formerfish]

Ok, so this has a shorter night than i expected. I will be here tonight.

[Formerfish]

Sorry guys, I know I said tonight but I was expecting my ex to pick up our daughter and she didn't. I just got done with dinner and a bath and it's time to put her to bed. I'm more than likely falling asleep with her cause I've been up since 5am. I don't have anything to do until 330 tomorrow so I'll catch up after I drop her off at school.

[Formerfish]

Ok, im here and feel like shit because im so far behind on things here but its because i havent been living like a fucking weirdo staying up all night playing and being productive in life for once, so i guess i dont feel all that bad.

I am going to read now. I will be here for awhile. Holla.

[Formerfish]

My kill pool is:

[Esp, Dong, Hopkirk]

This is exactly my kill pool right now

I think Dong is low hanging fruit, his play has been sporadic but I have an idea why and its NAI.

Espy went through a lot of trouble yesterday to explain why I need to die regardless and I think thats a pretty easy position for scum to take on me because it ensures at least 1 mislynch.

Hoppy id have to go back and look at because other then the recent quoted post where he linked me to 2 people but didnt mention the people hard defending NSG as being suspect is a little uhh... spotty logic at best and shade trying to set up 3 mislynches in myself, Gob and Dunn.

[Formerfish]

I can't even understand why you're mad unless you're scum, I feel great about how

we

punished NSG's shitty play

I feel like you sat on me until it was clear I wasnt going down. Werent you defending NSG early, and most, of day 1?

[Formerfish]

FF have you discussed the game with Reundo yet? What's his solve?

We talked about him getting into the game on Saturday, no ones posted in the team PT since then.

[Formerfish]

So yeah Dann trying to Lynch me for points he agreed with smells scummy to me.

Your case makes sense, and would reinforce my read on dann from parts of d1. Do you think his flipflopping and indecision is town unsure of whats windmill and whats a dragon, or scum unsure who to have too strong of an opinion of because of potential future events?

[Formerfish]

I think Hopkirk is all around much townier than either Dongempire or Espeonage. Like I can *see* it, so I'm not gonna go off at his wagon like I did with Auro, but he's definitely not my first choice today.

Dann v Espy is not tvt. I see Dann flipping red more often than Espy, at least Espy commited to a read, its a bad one, but a read none the less.

I dont agree that Hoppy is more town than anyone right now. The AtE about NSG and RC is a little over the top for me and showy. Like he has to make a big vocal show about how aghast he is that NSG would have the gall to play the way she did. Like a "lady doth protest to much" situation.

Are you reading his posts today as town?

[Formerfish]

I agree that Dong is scummy but that hammer makes me hesitant.

Why is that the thing that you get held up on with Dong? A scum buddy wouldnt hammer when deadline was looming?

[Formerfish]

FF do something with your life before I start tunnelling you again.

Its funny you say that because i actually am which is what is keeping me from being here.

Now im making bad decisions and staying up way later than i should to be here. go figure.

[Formerfish]

I'm interested in a whole case of Dong rather than individual posts.

ftfy

[Formerfish]

So yesterday he planned on voting NSG after FF, but today after NSG flips scum he backs off of FF - I think that is for his own survival, and that he is scum

I wasnt thinking about it this way, but this makes sense, especially with that comment he made ealier today about voting himself because we are pussies or something.

[Formerfish]

A Message from Eddie Cane!

Is this whole post from Eddie?

Like the entirety of it?

[Formerfish]

He's just going for the deep game pocket on FF while bussing his partner in White Flag? When two scum dead means the end of the game? No.

I mean, if NSG just outright says she's not gonna play the game and you're sure she's getting lynched at some point... Might as well bus, no?

I mean, yeah, but if there is a way to obviously avoid that you think her partners are going to go for that idea on d1? People were very willing to give NSG a pass into d2 even with everything shed done. I could have easily been lynched instead and then who knows.

[Formerfish]

yes

painstakingly paraphrased

Can you point to a post of your own where you show half as much conviction in anything youre saying?

That post reads like your TM mates realized that youre a sinking ship that needs its ballast adjusted quickly and the best way they figured to do that was to let one of them try to rehab your slot by putting out a reads list. This way they could workshop it in the tm pt and scum pt over night and would look like you finally sacked up and picked sides on people instead of going where the wind blows.

The post feels more fabricated than softener.

[Formerfish]

This might take a minute BB, your iso has 35 fucks.

[Formerfish]

Like did you even read my own personal reads list

Was it before 1695?

[Formerfish]

Thats 1000 posts ago, you still feel the same about everyone?

[Formerfish]

NSG was talking about surviving to day 2 and starting to play then. If she hadnt kept up on that promise she would have been lynched, regardless of whether or not i "bussed" her.

Yes, that's kind of my point:

Shading her would have been scum indicative if she flipped town. Makes no sense for me to do as scum, especially in a game where its very easy to lose as scum due to scum having higher numbers but losing at 1 pop

It makes sense if she's dying day 2 anyway

Like playing a long con.

[Formerfish]

Pathetic lamist lmfao

VOTE: Cheeky

Stop this esp wagon pls

Ok, this is enough. No one beats on my wifey expect me. I mean...

Cheeky is about as confirmed to me as anyone can be in this game as she could have hammered me and didnt, thats as good as a no hammer in lylo right now.

VOTE: Dong

[Formerfish]

I think you're both pretty transparently town here and for whatever reason, you guys just can't see it in each other.

You guys clashed over a read (FF) in a pretty hardcore fashion but I think instead of recognizing you just disagreed on a confident read you jumped to the idea that the other person's confidence was scum indicative. I think the fact that a lot of other people in the game and outside the game hard town read you both independently is pretty telling.

What skin do you have in this particular interaction that you feel you have to play referee between Dong and Cheeky?