TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[lilith2013]

the same could be said for Johnny though, right? what's your read on Johnny?

Flopz is in my PoE and honestly could see them partnered with Autumn but this is a hot take that has no backing and I'd need to ISO the slots interactions

Ok if you need it spelled out, the difference is I’ve been baiting a flopz wagon since Monday and have gotten nothing, which is crazy because (if flopz is town) I set up a miselim for scum on a silver platter and nobody cared

[lilith2013]

yeah but I made louder noises about them!!! and I was second. that’s arguably more important than first because that makes the wagon viable

[lilith2013]

I have intel that say this is probably just town!flopz, which is just like, disappointing and incongruous with my previous read of the gamestate which is why I went down to 0 townreads

[lilith2013]

you/me/koba all voting flopz in short succession - this should contain at least 2 town
I think the fact that no one else joined means that scum already had plans in motion for who they wanted to be the D1 elim and it wasn’t flopz.

Unfortunately the timing makes it kind of difficult to determine what the scumplan is/was, because in the same time frame, super started pushing infinity, mena replaced in, and we tried to wagon flopz. - is it that scum knew mena was going to replace into their partner slot and so were prepping to push {infinity??}? is it that scum knew mena was replacing into a townslot and wanted him dead before he could do damage? is it that super and her scum team had already decided on an infinity push and didn’t want to deviate from the plan?

[lilith2013]

auro, do you agree with infinity’s takes on mena?

[lilith2013]

@auro I don’t think SS has read anything except for snippets of koba v super which I asked my team for input on. as mentioned, my team isn’t able to keep up with this game so I ping them when I have specific things I want them to look at. I could ask him to give his opinion on that but, uh... idk how helpful it would be because he has no context

[lilith2013]

after work but it has to do with gamestate more than anything wrt whos taking what stances

ok

[lilith2013]

not sure how much I should say on mena right now given the lack of reading/comprehension

[lilith2013]

ok whatever now I’m feeling pissy because I don’t feel like me efforting was even worth it

I think I’m scumreading mena

[lilith2013]

I was actually going to say like almost the same thing infinity did about mena’s initial reads list except with the added bonus of my opinion of his read on me being

lazy

. like his points about me were:

- energy: this is like, the reason I disagree the least with but by itself is a bad reason to put me in top town tier
- worried about my activity level!!!!! ok what, and also -> townread??
- haven’t read my case wall: ok why do you feel justified to talk about my activity level then because the whole point of my walls was to make up for lack of activity during busytimes
- “I should be sortable” - uh sorry? this is not a reason to put me in a top town tier. How does my being sortable put me in top townreads?

[lilith2013]

also other than fb the entire readslist basically matches up with the general consensus read on every slot

[lilith2013]

I’m actually really vibing with infinity’s description of mena playing a “towngame but in 480p.” because on the surface the readslist looks fine, but if you actually read the reasons for each read it’s just a bit like ????

[lilith2013]

ah yes, the good old “if you don’t agree with me then you must be scum!!!1!1!1!1!1!”

I didn’t put in 8 hours and write 5k words because I was scum, lmao. I would have been happy to coast on “being busy”

If you want to hash things out then I’m more than happy to do that. I’m not voting mena. I want to discuss this read. don’t come at me with the attitude of “I’m not going to townread you unless you agree with me” and maybe like - interact with me instead. I’m so fed up with everyone having this attitude. It sucks.

pedit: you’re just proving my point

[lilith2013]

It is

incredibly

unpleasant to be in a game where everyone has this attitude of “I’m not talking to unless you agree with me that x is scum,” “if you vote x then you’re scum,” “if you dare to not agree with me then you’re scum and I’m not listening to you.” This is incredibly unproductive. I’m here because I want to figure things out as a TEAM. If everyone has this attitude then we get NOTHING done and guess what? mafia have already won because no one was willing to talk and we had no cohesion.

[lilith2013]

ah yes, the good old “if you don’t agree with me then you must be scum!!!1!1!1!1!1!”

I didn’t put in 8 hours and write 5k words because I was scum, lmao. I would have been happy to coast on “being busy”

If you want to hash things out then I’m more than happy to do that. I’m not voting mena. I want to discuss this read. don’t come at me with the attitude of “I’m not going to townread you unless you agree with me” and maybe like - interact with me instead. I’m so fed up with everyone having this attitude. It sucks.

pedit: you’re just proving my point

then talk to me

what exactly would you like me to talk about? I put my thoughts in the thread in order for other people to respond. I don’t have any questions for you specifically. if you disagree with my read then it’s kind of on you to explain why you disagree with it.

[lilith2013]

Lily what do you think that says about my fucking alignment? like at this point surely you can see I'm town being annoyed as hell about the game state and the way I literally can't cooperate with anyone here?

ok and??? I’m not scumreading you. Regardless of your alignment, your attitude doesn’t help. This is not a discussion of whether you are town.

[lilith2013]

I'll respond to your read on Mena/Infinity later tonight Lilly, I'm on mobile atm and it's hard

okay great. this would be lovely. I’d have appreciated if this was your initial response to me rather than what you actually posted.

[lilith2013]

It is

incredibly

unpleasant to be in a game where everyone has this attitude of “I’m not talking to unless you agree with me that x is scum,” “if you vote x then you’re scum,” “if you dare to not agree with me then you’re scum and I’m not listening to you.” This is incredibly unproductive. I’m here because I want to figure things out as a TEAM. If everyone has this attitude then we get NOTHING done and guess what? mafia have already won because no one was willing to talk and we had no cohesion.

I mean its only like 3-4 people in this playerlist who are like this.

sure feels like everyone. probably since it’s the most vocal people doing it

[lilith2013]

Lily what do you think that says about my fucking alignment? like at this point surely you can see I'm town being annoyed as hell about the game state and the way I literally can't cooperate with anyone here?

ok and??? I’m not scumreading you. Regardless of your alignment, your attitude doesn’t help. This is not a discussion of whether you are town.

it isn't but it's funny how I bleed town and you guys seem to just get mad at me instead of trying to read me lol

wouldn't solving my slot when interacting with me be helpful for you in the game? unless you're the sort of player who looks for scum and not town?

I’m sure I said this somewhere but am also on phone and can’t find the quote. basically - I think on the surface you’re town. but I think that of most players this game, so something is very wrong with my reads/the gamestate. I’m trying to figure out what that is before I can be comfortable going back to townreading all the people I was townreading.

[lilith2013]

I mean you seem “towny” but yeah paranoia. will try to explain

[lilith2013]

I think it’s really easy to townread people who seem excited and talk a lot and effort. In a vacuum I’d like to believe that this is towny. My heart wants to townread people who do these things. But (sounding like a broken record yikes) energy /= alignment, effort /= alignment. Separately, I think your emotions are genuine, and I’d like to believe that it comes from town, but I’ve been burned on this a lot. I also have explicit info that you’re able to be high effort as scum. I have similar information on most of the other people who are high energy/effort in this game. We might all be town. I’d love for us to all be town. If this game had easier “targets” I’d probably be townreading the people I originally thought were towny based on “vibes.” But that’s not the way this game is panning out, so I don’t think I can afford to townread anyone that easily right now.

specifically on the “paranoia” read on you: didn’t even realize until later when people were like “have you met nancy drew” but you do come across as similar in some ways I think. and I had a major issue with being burned by emotional outbursts, so seeing your outbursts made me really wary. I 100% think they’re genuine. I just.... almost on principle don’t want to townread you just for being genuinely emotional. I don’t think that mafia should only be about who can get the most upset and whoever is the most upset gets to be locktown - that just feels really awful to me if everyone feels like they have to be emotional in every game in order to get anything done. I’m having trouble separating the rest of my feelings about your slot from the feelings about your emotional outbursts.

[lilith2013]

I’m not even sure that addressed the question but I hope that this makes things clearer. I would love for you to be town, I’m just having a really hard time separating my feelings about the emotional stuff enough to feel confident to read you, so I’ve basically decided I won’t try to force a read and figure stuff out elsewhere.

[lilith2013]

fb are you still scumreading chennis? I feel like you haven’t slapped him in a while. Who else do you think is scum?

[lilith2013]

the same could be said for Johnny though, right? what's your read on Johnny?

Flopz is in my PoE and honestly could see them partnered with Autumn but this is a hot take that has no backing and I'd need to ISO the slots interactions

Ok if you need it spelled out, the difference is I’ve been baiting a flopz wagon since Monday and have gotten nothing, which is crazy because (if flopz is town) I set up a miselim for scum on a silver platter and nobody cared

I have intel that say this is probably just town!flopz, which is just like, disappointing and incongruous with my previous read of the gamestate which is why I went down to 0 townreads

you/me/koba all voting flopz in short succession - this should contain at least 2 town
I think the fact that no one else joined means that scum already had plans in motion for who they wanted to be the D1 elim and it wasn’t flopz.

Unfortunately the timing makes it kind of difficult to determine what the scumplan is/was, because in the same time frame, super started pushing infinity, mena replaced in, and we tried to wagon flopz. - is it that scum knew mena was going to replace into their partner slot and so were prepping to push {infinity??}? is it that scum knew mena was replacing into a townslot and wanted him dead before he could do damage? is it that super and her scum team had already decided on an infinity push and didn’t want to deviate from the plan?

[lilith2013]

why did yall pick now of all times to vote flopz when I was trying to wagon them yesterday

[lilith2013]

@mena it literally does not matter whether you’ve caught scum or not. you said yourself - we only need two townies to be incorrect and we’re screwed. working together is required. you and super both gave me the attitude of “well if you don’t agree with me then you must be scum” thing and not only is it exhausting/vaguely manipulative, it prevents us from actually working together as a

team.

everyone needs to put the toxicity away.

[lilith2013]

Okay, so I think there are two things I’d like to address here regarding you @lili

Firstly, the frustration. The post I wanted to make could basically have been summed up as “I’m finding this game very frustrating because I think there is obvscum present, I think I’ve tried to be reasonable and to explain why, I’ve checked that I’m not being biased by running it past my team who also think infinity is just terrible terrible terrible this game, and nobody will support my push on scum despite the reasons for /not/ doing so being incredibly weak — added to this, I think I’ve been very towny, I don’t think anything I’m doing makes much sense for me to do as scum unless you think my scumgame is literally purely bluffing (which it’s demonstrably not from previous examples) and if I were scum there are almost certainly paths of less resistance for me to take”.

I know you haven’t really been able to get into the game, and that’s partly why I’m frustrated — it felt like you were being resistant to TRing me for reasons that I don’t get, and on top of that you weren’t willing to give me a chance by sheeping me even to the point of being the third vote on a wagon I was and am very confident is on scum. Generally, when I want people to work with me, that doesn’t mean I want to be blind sheeped — but when I’m actively asking someone to help me apply pressure somewhere, they’re not voting elsewhere, and they’re saying they think X is scummy then I find it very frustrating when I don’t get material support. Especially when I was attempting to offer you a deal in the form of backing flopz tomorrow if you helped me with infinity today.

I think I’ve talked about this but I’ll briefly recap

On first glance I thought your readslist looked good but it looked, like, optically good. The only real non-consensus read was fb. Since the whole brainpower thing etc, I mostly looked at the first post of reads. Your top tier of townreads felt weird to me but I didn’t have the chance to figure out why that was. I definitely didn’t feel comfortable townreading you when the only post I’d read more than in passing made me feel weird about you. I’ve explained this in a bit more detail elsewhere.

[lilith2013]

re: flopz offer, I also didn’t actually want flopz, I was just trying to bait a wagon

[lilith2013]

the same could be said for Johnny though, right? what's your read on Johnny?

Flopz is in my PoE and honestly could see them partnered with Autumn but this is a hot take that has no backing and I'd need to ISO the slots interactions

Ok if you need it spelled out, the difference is I’ve been baiting a flopz wagon since Monday and have gotten nothing, which is crazy because (if flopz is town) I set up a miselim for scum on a silver platter and nobody cared

I have intel that say this is probably just town!flopz, which is just like, disappointing and incongruous with my previous read of the gamestate which is why I went down to 0 townreads

you/me/koba all voting flopz in short succession - this should contain at least 2 town
I think the fact that no one else joined means that scum already had plans in motion for who they wanted to be the D1 elim and it wasn’t flopz.

Unfortunately the timing makes it kind of difficult to determine what the scumplan is/was, because in the same time frame, super started pushing infinity, mena replaced in, and we tried to wagon flopz. - is it that scum knew mena was going to replace into their partner slot and so were prepping to push {infinity??}? is it that scum knew mena was replacing into a townslot and wanted him dead before he could do damage? is it that super and her scum team had already decided on an infinity push and didn’t want to deviate from the plan?

@fire: I think it makes me lean more towards scum!infinity for transitioning there

[lilith2013]

@lilith who, if scum, do you think would jump on a Flopz wagon? The gesture seems empty judging by the relative skill of this PL

idk I didn’t say the bait was

good

But I think it does mean something that now people are jumping on a flopz wagon, so

[lilith2013]

everyone should take a break from the thread except like Johnny who should post a lot. this has been an announcement from your friendly neighborhood lilith.

[lilith2013]

that's an indemnity plan. fake news

[lilith2013]

yeah I really doubt that super and AL are bussing. why do you think that's possible?

[lilith2013]

If you think infinity is the weakest partner, who do you think is the third scum?

[lilith2013]

It has to be koba.

That wouuld make this game ICONIC

I wouldn't rule that out actually

If you think infinity is the weakest partner, who do you think is the third scum?

I feel like Infinity would be judged the weakest partner in every case for third scum...? Or do you think this would narrow it down to a specific subset

you think super would bus infinity because he is the weaker partner over amy, johnny, and flopz in that gamestate?

[lilith2013]

in my view this would require the third partner to be one of {fb/me/koba/chennis/auro}. I don't think that I, chennis, or auro were very townread at that point in the game, so that would require a third partner of fb or koba.

[lilith2013]

no.... I'm telling auro I think his theory is crazy

[lilith2013]

flopz is like the baitiest bait to ever want to bring to endgame, johnny is busy with a new baby, and amy was MIA for like 99% of the time she was in this game. you think super buses infinity over them??

[lilith2013]

lol the parentheses cuts the link

here

[lilith2013]

I just.... almost on principle don’t want to townread you just for being genuinely emotional. I don’t think that mafia should only be about who can get the most upset and whoever is the most upset gets to be locktown - that just feels really awful to me if everyone feels like they have to be emotional in every game in order to get anything done.

see above - this applies to mena as well.

[lilith2013]

VOTE: johnny

[lilith2013]

ah speak of the devil

Johnny can you explain your read on Infinity given the context that his wagon hasn’t had more than two or three people on it, which is incongruous with you saying everyone wanted to elim him? Was this the primary reason you don’t want to vote him or are there other reasons?

[lilith2013]

Why joqiza?

[lilith2013]

I've been trying to get back into this game but this is kinda getting a bit much for me. Even before this current stuff, I really didn't want to have to play with Koba again and just them this whole game has been a lot. Last TM really took a lot out of me and I just don't want to have to go through that again. I'll give it a couple days and hopefully this stuff calms down and there’s a much more mellow gamestate.

hi I find this post not very helpful and maybe a bit nonsensical, since everyone was already taking a break. This is me reaching out to you to try to help you get back in the game. What would help you feel more engaged?

[lilith2013]

eyeballs are still burning but I’m planning to properly read all the stuff that happened after mena replaced in tonight, including the cases on infinity vs mena

[lilith2013]

Amy: Not weak

not sure how you can say this? there were multiple wagon attempts on her and she was straight up MIA

Johnny: Slides by fine

not townread at the time

Flopz: Well liked at the time

like two people townread him, and they were... infinity and super. I think it’s more likely they would be trying to pocket him than hard defend. but yeah if flopz was the third partner with super and infinity, only having townreads from his partners is not a strong position.

AL was already receiving some pushes at the time. If both other scum were in {Johnny/Flopz/AL} subset maybe she'd push Koba though. Hmm.

I’m honestly pretty concerned that we disagree so heavily on this.

[lilith2013]

Not the fact that we’re disagreeing, I just can’t understand where you’re coming from on thinking super and infinity are bussing and then feels like your gamestate read is entirely different and I don’t know how you got there

[lilith2013]

is doomed-ness not a function of positioning on d1?

[lilith2013]

yeah Johnny I saw you in Betrayal and even though you weren’t super active, you still had some really insightful thoughts. Can you give us something?

I’ll make same offer as I did for flopz - what would help you get more engaged?

[lilith2013]

I have frighteningly little opinion on Lilith. FB also is a slot, I guess.

again this is really frustrating because I feel like I efforted so hard on Monday in order to get myself on top of the game and it seems like the only person who actually read my posts were super and fb. if you have little opinion of me, you should look at those posts. if you don't think the effort I spent on those is town-indicative enough alone, you can maybe read the posts themselves.

[lilith2013]

like I'm now regretting even bothering because I just wasted 8 hours of my life to be in the same exact position as I was before

[lilith2013]

sorry reading is not happening today.

[lilith2013]

Ok my concern on lilithz was because - I remember what she did around the Flopz wagon and if Im right on Flopz alignment then what Lilith has done around the slot is incredibly scummy

please explain

[lilith2013]

okay, would you like to discuss? do you have specific questions that I can address? or I can do a word vomit type post explaining it if you prefer.

[lilith2013]

i was told ur a major lurksack as scum by teammates and theres also ~reasons~

do u have any opinion on at least a skim of anything? just like a little flash read helps sort u

I’m a major lurksack when I’m working until 2am most nights and weekends and my eyes hurt so much that I physically can’t look at a screen without tearing up

I coincidentally happened to roll scum like 6 times in a row after I became really busy at work

I skimmed like 20 pages that happened between Friday night and Saturday night and the one thing I retained was that I didn’t like flopz’ (and whoever he was talking to) foray into what seemed like irrelevant meta discussions. I don’t even remember if it was flopz or what was being discussed, I just remember disliking it because it didn’t seem like it was helping anyone on either side sort the other and so felt unnecessary. I think maybe the wagons being so evenly split is a sign that scum didn’t really care where the wagon was at that time, so potentially all wagons on town.

Spoiler: thoughts re: infinity/autumn

Feels like his early posts are focused on discussing townslips. At first I thought he was trying to explain that it was a true townslip from koba:

Feel like scum are more likely to notice that the setup is nightless

Koba, explain the vote

Depending on meta, it's NAI yeah

If you find something that scum is unlikely to think to fake, then it's towny

Or if they do analysis based on the mech mistake that seems very genuine

Etc

Lilith I like it when you post

PEdit: depends on what the specific slip is though.

but on the previous page he specifically asked koba if they fake townslips a lot:

no the townslip was real its me being town

Ok but you do fake townslips a lot right

so where exactly was this discussion on townslips going?? why keep discussing it if he thought koba would be a person who would try to fake it? how was continuing to talk about townslips going to help him sort anyone if he already knew/thought that it shouldn't be town-indicative of koba because koba would be someone who fakes slips?

Now this chain is getting messy. What message were you saying you didn't disagree with?

My initial question was in regard to your reaction to Super's post, whose post you were saying you did not like there. As it seems Super's post agreed with what you were saying in terms of Koba's bad (read as lack of) reasoning that you referenced in 129. So I wanted to know why you didn't like it?

This felt towny to me, like he's really putting in the effort to try and sort chenn

lol I said "meh" to myself, then clicked to the next page and saw myself post "meh." at least I'm consistent.. This post and flopz' post quoted in it just feel kinda underwhelming to me.

This is also how I won a lot of my scumgames when I still played. I didn't try to create bad vibes early on, I just let town do whatever they wanted, bantered, and tried to create "good vibes" (and made sure I was part of the "group.") I am concerned that this is happening to the game right now.

Hard agree with this take, I'm voting amph right now because I don't know who's scum inside the townbloc/activitybloc and I think amph is the most likely scum outside of it.

more "meh," I'm a bit underwhelmed again. I feel like not putting in effort to sort the "townbloc" even though you've stated you think there's scum in it is like... just such a "path of least resistance" especially with all of the suspicion on amy's slot at this point

Spoiler: thoughts re: chennis

Auro your posts feel purposeful to the point of being manipulative - I feel like you have an agenda that's too well-defined to be uninformed

Interesting, can you talk to me in specifics? Which posts of mine suggest I'm being manipulative?

Manipulative was probably the wrong word, agenda-driven is probably better. I guess what I'm trying to say is your posts seem to be subtly doing things.

33, 42 - trying to form a bloc

85 - justifying said bloc

106 - prematurely attempting to force someone to take the position of the opposition to said block

Also I don't know exactly why but "nobody here can read me well xD" gives me heebie jeebies

Even your jokey posts kind of feel purposeful. Maybe it's a "you" thing, I don't honestly remember after who knows how long, but by default I'd at least be suspicious of this behavior and call it out

I don't think I really agree with these characterizations of auro's posts even if I like the push on auro overall. In particular I wouldn't say that 106 was trying to force koba to oppose the block, and if anything was doing that it would have been auro asking if I scumread super. However, the timing of the push coincides with where I was starting to comment on auro's posts during my reread so I feel like maybe the right intent is still there.

so I woke up and had a discussion with shady and gira this morning about Koba and me wanting them to ISO them because I'm worried they could be scum refusing to change their read on me and it felt weird to me that they honestly don't TR me by now - shady made a good point in saying that a townblock of 4 town and 1 scum is game-winning for town. he said anyone inciting fear into a towncore is probably coming from a scum!mindset because scum literally have it harder than town this setup as they have to miselim 4 townies to win - meaning scum will NOT want there to be a townblock. having 1 deepwolf isn't a worry for us and Koba being hyper paranoid of me/inciting fear into my slot when they know good and well as town I'm very fucking towny is a worry because it DOES NOT MATTER to them if I'm scum if they're town because the townblock only needs 4 townies in it to win.

I don't think Koba is scum at this point and I want this to be known because I know this post is going to bug them

- shady is actually sending me his read on Koba's ISO as I'm typing this and he is saying he still townreads them but that they shouldn't be so wary of me when even if I am scum it doesn't matter cos you'd need two deepwolves this game to lose as town.

this makes me actually wary of Chen because they have been the one who has been inciting the most fear into the towncore which is something scum would be wanting to do since it is nightless - gira made a good point in saying that as scum you cannot allow an uncontested townbloc to form and pushing against people who would otherwise be universal townreads is >rand scum

It's a fair point that you don't need your bloc to be perfect, but I'm actually really wary of

you

because you've been the one trying to get people to blindly trust a towncore that is probably little better than random, which is something scum would want to do for obvious reasons

I have no reason to trust this towncore. I think super/fb are probably more likely town than not, but I do not want to start drawing boxes, and before you say "but chennis nobody was saying we should locktown X Y and Z," yeah that might be technically true, but is it really? Are we really approaching every slot with the due diligence it deserves or are we just too scared to break this tentative townblock? A townblock that can't survive scrutiny doesn't deserve to even exist.

I'm not calling for the "leaders" of the townblock to be lynched, I'm calling for the townblock to be

examined

. There's a major difference.

in general I feel like chennis has been kind of, vocally against the majority in a way that I think doesn't benefit him as scum very much, and I like this analysis and the general thought process here around questioning the.. staleness? of the gamestate in his following posts (eg 1231)

Spoiler: thoughts re: super

I'm not really sure what I think of Koba this game, Shady actually was saying that Koba's reasoning for townreading me felt like a genuine thought from Koba and Shady also liked Koba's initial vote on me because he thinks scum!Koba may have actually not voted me straight away after reading my post about them probably wanting to tunnel me this game (but Shady also said that Koba would probably wanna push me as scum cos they know pushing me makes me break as town/unable to form reads as town). I feel like Koba might actually be town now that I'm typing this cos I am thinking that if Koba was scum they probably would wanna push me hard so I had trouble reading other players in the game and getting reads. I do like how Koba thinks I can be towny as scum and only cracked at lylo though it's cute, but I flipped town so I'mma be towny all game

this is becoming a larger reads post cos you guys are actually posting a lot faster than I expected and just wanna out my thoughts before I go out for dinner

as I said before I think Lilith is town, they're coming across as very genuine in their interactions with Auro and Peta backed my read up on them up so I feel confident in this at the moment (things can change idk but right now I think they're pretty towny)

Firebringer is an interesting read for me lmao, early on I kinda tr their entrance of not liking black flag, cos Idk why mafia would wanna draw so much attention to themselves like this - I mentioned this to my teammates and Peta said that this is NAI for Firebringer because apparently they were complaining about this setup pre-game too so idk. I need to hear their reads out more to get a proper read on them but honestly I am slightly leaning town only cos their behaviour just feels... idk - them telling people they're trying to get paranoia on them, I dunno if they'd be like that as scum :S

Autumn I need to probably see more from I don't really know what to think

Auro I kinda felt were town but this is probably being influenced by their own read on me, but I felt like it was a genuine read and I like how they kinda jumped straight into scumhunting

others I haven't really read much, Chennis is a cute pichu thing who didn't understand my first question directed at them and when I responded it fkd up and I never actually went back to respond properly I should probably do that

I don't think I really like this post in retrospect, in light of super later backing off from townreading me. This post actually indicates a stronger tonal read on me than the read she had on fb and, once again, her townread disappeared at a really convenient time for reasons that I think are circumspect, because nothing about the original reason super listed for townreading me had changed, it was just my activity level. the other reads are kinda meh. Maybe I'm just a party pooper but the recent sorting and re-sorting of koba in thread is coming off as excessive possibly to the point of being performative

thoughts above are corroborated by super having me at the

top

of her readslist here:

i meant reads on everyone

ok from towniest to least i'd go

lilith
koba (this read makes me nervous though)
firebringer (breather? idr)
auro
autumn
chennis


idr who else is in the game cos i have a memory of a goldfish

oh there is amy (amph?) who I played a MU game with so that's exciting but I don't think she has posted yet

also I really dislike the townread on flopz but I don't think that's necessarily scum-indicative, I just strongly disagree with it maybe

here is my little reads list for today before others come back and post and add some content:

Town: Koba, Firebringer
Leaning town: Lilith,
Need to see more from: Amy, Johnny
On the fence: Auro, Flopz
Lower-tier/Null: Autumn/Chen

I don't exactly have any scumreads and I've downgraded a lot of people since my big ISO-bin because I think I'm townreading people too easily and I only want to focus on having REALLY strong townreads to be deserved to be 100% in my town pool - for example I read some stuff Autumn said as tonally good but it wasn't as strong as a read I have on others - same as Chen-Chen, the only reason they dropped is because their defensiveness to me weird ~strange~ and I don't like them inciting paranoia to a townbloc which imo is something scum would be doing this game - I do agree that we should be wary of a townbloc forming if it has two scum in it, it's always good to be careful but being continuously paranoid about it d1 is a strange thing for me to understand - we have 3 MLs we can use

Koba is just Town. I think their responses to me have been good and their wariness of me makes sense, I could go into a deep analysis of why they're town but meh I don't feel like it right now unless someone presses it.


Firebringer has felt Town to me most of the game because of their attitude/interactions with others, I started townreading them even more when they spouted a random thought of me potentially pocketing them but them just being OK with it. it'd be kinda lame to find out they are scum this game and I got pocketed by someone who hasn't really been producing the greatest reads ever but idk I just vibe with this slot a lot and if later on they ping me maybe I will re-evaluate this read.

Lilith I had a pretty early TR on for a post which gave off good tone but it dropped when I ISOd their slot and realised a lot of their effort was focused on Auro but they never came to any conclusions on that slot until now - I think their anger at me and read on me feels genuine and this points to them being town because of how much they fucking cared about my townread dissipating, idk if scum would be hyper focused on that and then go and say it was scummy of me - idk felt town indicative to be that annoyed about it. peta says her drop in content is worrying and the excuses are fakeable but he still town-leans her but says she needs to do more

Flops is a funny one because I had been townreading their approach and vibing with the way they were playing but my teammates have a different idea of this slot and kinda scumread them, hence why I'm on the fence and probably need to interact with them 1 v 1 more. they seem like a good player and someone who could very much sneak into a townbloc of some kind, peta thinks the extent in which he is citing teammates is excessive

Auro I had a early tr on for their read on me - idk why they'd try and pocket me so early on (literally in their first post) but yeah. peta thinks they feel a bit scummy and thinks they wander off into theotricals without taking any stances - plus 876 feels fencesitty to peta. another slot I'm on the fence about and need to 1 v 1

Amy I need to see more from and will probably try meta read her through the MU game we played - I have a feeling her lack of being here and playing a game is kinda towny tbh lol

Johnny I also need more from but peta says he is known to be very lurky as town and an easy miselim for scum, peta also thinks he doesn't sound like he is forcing content and liked their take on koba but not enough to town read him yet

Chen I had reasons to tr in my ISO and I probably need to look back over that - I kinda explained earlier why they dropped down for me and it's going to take a lot more for me to just TR a player, I'm gonna try being harder on myself anyways. peta said they have no idea what they think of chen but kinda townlean from their recent posts(?)

Autumn another slot I tonally tr a bit but yeah again, as I said, I don't know if that's enough for me to tr them fully - they did incite some paranoia on me but yeah idk what they means for them. peta says could be town but didn't really like 606.

peta told me not to say his reads cos they were just super vague and impressionistic but I posted some of them anyways cos they kinda help me since he knows you guys more than me

I basically TR koba/fb/lilith and everyone else needs to impress me with their towniness

pretty meh on this though, I'm struggling to distinguish between general sorting and vague fencesittiness though

Spoiler: thoughts re: auro

Intensity and aggression for why I like you.

Post 7 for the townread, especially the part about DkKoba.

For a self-branded scum tryhard, immediate antagonization of a player you're familiar with seems like an unusual strategy for scum. Or am I mistaken?

something about this post is still rubbing me the wrong way. I don't know what it is exactly but my initial reaction was to try to poke at Auro for it and I don't feel like that was a wrong instinct. I didn't really get anything satisfactory out of it but I feel like this post was really early for a townread on a super post that I was personally quite skeptical of, and it almost feels like buddying in retrospect. at least I don't think it's S/S.

what about the Koba part is a towntell? (I was honestly going to post the same thing regardless of my alignment about Koba so it was pre-planned fwiw)

Do you not consider my last paragraph in that post to be an explanation?

Noted re: you pre-planning it, if you know what I mean.

Firebringer will you like me less if I say I like mountainous nightless? :3

I don't think I like this either. Super gives Auro an explanation for her post that in my opinion should change his read but it doesn't and he barely reacts.

re: back and forth with me on "what would you do as scum." As I mentioned, I noticed later that he had actually answered my question in his first post so I missed it and thought he was deflecting my questions and kept hounding him. I stopped as soon as I realized but also feel like auro should have noticed himself that he had answered my question and that might actually make me feel worse about this conversation than if he hadn't answered the question and deflected me later

I got work to do :$ can't afford to sit refreshing MS all day. I'll usually have lower activity during the week.

Firebringer, I'm actually a little thrown off by your play tbh, it just feels unfamiliar. Your 1v1 with Chennisden (btw I figured how ya got that username Chennis, nice one) feels like a meme (love the rap battle btw) do you actually have something on him? Also you called my AL vote a good vote, mentioned your teammates scumread him, and also said you think he's scum: I'm wondering why you haven't pushed AL directly / voted for him so far?
Also 722 is not fully correct look at this game viewtopic.php?f=56&t=83407

DkKoba, you're pretty worried about my lurking while also continuously dodging my Q about Nancy's secret: mind answering? You

just

read my scumgames and I'm pretty much a hyperposter in those so asking me if I'm lurking because I'm "scared" is

I strongly disagree with takes on AL's opening being bad, fwiw I loved the poem. However I'm expecting AL to adopt a more aggressive inquisitive style right now after his recognition that something's off and said he'll talk to people to figure it out, but his posts in recent pages seem to be laid-back.

I like a lot of Flopz' takes and I also like Flopz, but I'm having a hard time forming a read on him :$

Johnny, can you tell me whether and how Chennis' posts after his attack on me have influenced your read on him? Do your reads from 264 look different now? (Especially interested in whether the "blind spots" have opened up)

I think I like this post more than I expected (which is to say: more than none), agree with points on infinity although not on.. maybe anyone else but I feel like at this point maybe that's a good sign

Spoiler: thoughts re: koba

I don't think I have good reasons to scumread them per se, but a lot of their positions seem like they are posturing to achieve certain things in the thread. Not necessarily scum-indicative, but it's not a playstyle that I agree with when it comes from town. For example, they insist that super might be scum and should not be townread and say that they have a gut feeling that super is scum, but then post things like this:

auro sees big paragraph from super: oh fuck this player is probably dangerous better pocket them

which doesn't mesh with the idea that super is scum. If they're scumreading auro then surely they don't think scum!auro is trying to "pocket" scum!super? I feel like this language belies the scumread/gutread on super that koba has been claiming to have.

can someone explain why amp is scummy cuz their entrance reads were beefy and that kinda player usually sorts itself in tbe long run
also i think chenn is also possible scum and i wanna addess that when im a few drinks in

I think this response is kind of weird considering all of the vagueness I found in the referenced post by amy. Just feels like they didn't bother to actually read the readslist and just saw a lot of words and went "ok." corresponding questions in the @koba section

my gut says flopz is scum and thats why theyre relying a lot on teammates to get "reads" rn. Flopz, what are YOUR personal reads rn?

decent take/followup on this post I think, and it lines up with where I'm at on flopz as well

VOTE: flopz

okay good vote

Spoiler: thoughts re: amy (ampharos)

mmmmmmmmokay, we got enough of a game on our hands that I'm comfortable doing a quick sort

==lean v==

lilith

- Simply put, I think she's been asking the right sorts of questions, and showing the proper amount of care and followup towards said questions. It's easy for scum to just fire off some nonsense questions to try to blend in... but the fact that she's hounding people for answers and seems to be legitimately considering them and following up pretty strongly indicates town to me.

dkkoba

- honestly mostly vibes. I tried to find a concrete thing I could point to but I honestly just think the way they're navigating the thread rn is town-indicative. This is the type of read that always seems to wind up biting me in the ass somewhere down the line but that's future Amy's problem, heh

Super

- This one's cheating because I'm extremely susceptible to people who know how to write more than two sentences in a post, but I think I agree with her assessment that she should be a fairly easily townread (off my whopping sample size of one game lmao) and I'm feelin' it here.

==also kinda lean v but weaker i guess? tiers are fake anyways==

chennisden

- I noted #156 as being a read I thought was towny - I don't think it's necessarily a GOOD read here, but I think it's the type that comes from town more often than not.

Auro

- seems comfortable in-thread, in a villagery sort of way.

==danger zone!==

Firebringer

- Seems to be the sort of poster I always have trouble drawing a bead on, but I feel like the schtick felt a little forced early on, and I feel like his game-relevant contributions have been... easy, I guess? The most against-the-grain thing he's done, as far as I can tell, is locking Auro town, and if he's scum that seems like an easy TMI to make? Just based on the sort of poster Auro seems to be.

Autumn Leaves

(or Infinity, or whoever) - Approach feels somewhat cagey, and if Firebringer is town then I like this slot's posting about koba's "slip" a hell of a lot less - I think there's a tendency for scum to legitimately want to call things townslips if the person doing them is town, and I think that sharing such a thought is an easy way to contribute to the thread without much effort (obviously koba would ALSO have to be town here, but that's not something I'm super concerned about rn). I specify Firebringer being town in this scenario primarily due to the way Firebringer talks about this slot later on - namely, throwing a lot of shade and supporting votes in a way that I don't think is w/w.

===========

that's probably everyone who's posted, I think

I do seem to be on the outside looking in wrt meta stuff - I've got one game with Super, but it was a hydra game, and I've got one game with Auro (and maybe lilith? or maybe I made that up) as part of a THREE-headed hydra and I honestly couldn't tell you whose posts were whose for that one, so I'm not counting it. Kinda refreshing tbh - means I have to rely a lot more on actual analysis than I usually do, especially d1.

VOTE: Autumn Leaves

I initially didn't like this post
on reread I was okay with where the reads were position-wise
on second reread I still didn't like the post though

I'm probably not going to be able to explain this one properly but like, the reads themselves seem fine, they seem to be not crazy far out of lef field, so what on earth is my brain ringing alarm bells for? I should be happy that amy's reads are reasonable.. right????? and my conclusion is that it's something about the way she expresses the reads that doesn't sit right with me, and similar to what chennis was saying recently, these are kinda like,

safe

reads... ie easy for scum to make when looking at the gamestate at that time. and I don't think anything here is particularly unfakeable as scum. the townreads section is.. quite vague and I came away from this post with no idea of the specific things people had done to make amy townread them or like examples of where she thought they were towny. the scumreads section is also quite vague and I'm not very satisfied with the explanations on both infinity and fb which seem to be very conditional and then she voted infinity without explaining why she preferred infinity over fb (which by her written conditions in her reads, implies she thinks fb is more likely to be town?). I also feel like town!amy in the one game I've seen her in was a lot more specific/analytical than this, so while I hesitate to use meta as a sole argument for scumreading, I think more specificity is within her townrange and have yet to see it.

Spoiler: thoughts re: flopz

don't really understand the townreads on this slot, I feel like a lot of their posts follow a very similar pattern of looking like they have content but not really saying much. For example:

Back to my reads, Lilith- Don't disagree with what they were saying to AL or really what they were saying with Auro.

119/120 - fire/lilith is weird, not sure how either would not know that Team Mafia means working with your team, it's kind of in the name.

188 - fortunately that term is mainly relegated to Zoomers so most people don't use it and I am always grateful for that.

I like their challenges to Autumn about the whole townslips/scumslips thingie

almost none of this is AI, the comments don't say anything about what he thinks my alignment is based on the linked post, and just like.... how is this post even contributing to moving the game forward?

other posts (ie 387, 395): remembered correctly earlier, I disliked this kind of derailing into meta discussion on infinity, it feels super tangential and again not like it's really trying to move the game forward. He basically drops this train of thought entirely and I don't see any sign of reads having been furthered as a result of the discussion.

more posts that I feel like are not really doing much to further the gamestate and all seem pretty surface-level in terms of the questions, and therefore fakeable:

FireBringer – aka Firb

Town

-

#439 lol I kinda love how FB just does not give a shit that their posts aren’t very game-solvey or useful/they’re just kinda memeing – a lot of their posts overall are just filler tbh but for some reason I just really don’t see scum being like this at all. I don’t know FB and I don’t know if they are like this as scum but their tone and the way they are playing kinda fits in with how I think this person would play if they were in a setup they hated and were also town lmao

Thanks for doing a readslist, I feel like there are too many players trying to coast here and some effortposting is always good to see.

I wanted to ask you more about your fire read, I recently subscribed to a "Charging at coasters/lurkers" newsletter so am looking for the juiciest target atm. Why does doing nothing strike you as so Townie, like I can understand the aloofness, showing they don't care about the game as much which is arguably a more townie mindset but is that enough for you to rate them so high when they really haven't exactly done much else?

Btw, to link a post, you just type in the number of the post, highlight it and then click to post button on the right side of the preview screen (near the smilies).

as a fellow spammer

Can you give me some things to work with lad, I don't want this game to devolve into more pulling teeth then it has already. Who do you think are acting the most scummy atm? Also have your views changed on AL changed?

Johnny, I just went through your ISO and you're basically just screaming Null. I need

moooooooore

.

Can you throw a cheeky bit of substance my way.

Are you still SRing Chen and Koba or have those changed now? Also, what's your view on the others you haven't talked about yet, it's interesting that you don't have a view on AL or Auro yet so would like to explore that further.

Woah, also congrats on the kid. Missed that the last time I saw your posts.

Looking through the posts after I went to bed yesterday, I think I'm reasonably comfortable with a TownKoba read.

Koba seems to be continuing their "I'm right, I have all the answers and I'm not sharing them with anyone, everyone else is below me" shtick which everyone whose had the pleasure to play with them will know and love. This is a nightless game Koba, please actually work with us and not try to solve the game on your own becuase that doesn't help anyone.

I would like to ask is if anyone else has experience with their scum-game and if there are any differences in play-style becuase from what I've seen this looks the same to their previous town game with me.

and this jfc

have not had time to sit down and write replies/thoughts since last night, planning to do that tomorrow

Hi Lilith, so is this going to happen today or are you saying you're too busy?

god I could quote his whole damn ISO. I'm just going to stop here because this seems like not a good use of post space. but his whole ISO is just this very surface-level stuff that doesn't really try to sort anyone imo

sorry I know this is getting excessive but just like, every single time I see flopz show up in the thread I'm like "damn I need to quote this to point to a really low-effort/fakeable/surface-level/non-game-solving post" and then I remember I already have probably too many examples but just wtf is this ISO. I'm on page 30 and I have yet to see a post from flopz that I'd consider town-indicative.

Spoiler: thoughts re: fb

Coolio, so have your AL reads changed or do you still think that they are a bit scummy? (I'm ref 227)

my autumn leaves read is about at same state as was before. yeah.

What exactly is you Autumn read as I think that's the only comment you've made about them and that's not excatly giving much info

I think autumn leaves is scum. I thought their entrance and interaction with lilith was how he would go about it as scum trying to pocket her. That initial vibe hasn't died but it is quelled in that he hasn't done anything directly that makes me think he is working for townreads or appease anyone, but at same time i think well maybe his alignment dependent on if lilith is scum or town and i want to get a good read there.

On the one hand I really like this post
On the other I'm frankly shocked that fb has made a content-ful post that I agree with and think is good and am possibly slightly alarmed by it because I don't know that I was expecting to ever see eye-to-eye with fb on mafia things
Some of my team members have agreed that we like fb and we like fb's posts but have no idea what that means for his alignment. same with:

i really do have a scum read on chennis. I need to case him so u all see what im seeing. Initially the push was memey but i think i posted "ohh i believe he really is scum" and it was at that point i really bought into the chennisden scum thing.

If you wanna do this now I'm all ears

ohh let me give u the short version before i give long version:
short version is i think chennisden is exceptionally wooden for whaat he has posted. I think he has holding back emotions and got some passive aggressive when it came to me earlier in game, i tought he was being exceptionally strange in our 1v1 and i think he knew what he wanted out of that cause there was nothing he was doing to progress a read.

look at his post of 156; at tht point i think he waas trying to give too much on a read to say he had a read when he didn't haave anything. In other words tried harder to put words to postings to justify read when nothing existed. and when he dove more into it 174 i don't feel he believes u were scum originally or his interaction screams he is talking to an actual scumread.

look at his interaction with me. first few posts in this game he talked about me like he disliked me (he says he reads me by annoyance level with me); that pretty much was non-existent in our little tiff and he backed of easily. Now could u say he was just holding back, sure, its just i don't think he had any intention of using that to read me. I think he got stuck into a reactionary omgus, didn't know how to progress with that omgus because he couldn't find anything to do push or angle to take it, decided "fuck it. ill just say im joking don't care" and left it. Like it was easy to do that, and then he pretends like he had balls to do something in which he showed no courage or conviction to do while saying he was like doing something out of ordinary for someone to do.

and finally, quick summary of where I think I am in terms of reads:

infinity/autumn: probscum, don't like recent "oh let me reevaluate the townbloc, super might be scum" stuff without seeming to put in much effort to reevaluate
chennis: like his vocal dissent, think it's not scum-indicative
super: ???? fucking paranoid
auro: probably town I think based on similar thoughts on infinity but not very strong read
koba: probably town but I want to scumread them but it's probably only because I didn't like their approach to me and I'm kind of trusting some other reads on this one
amy: null
flopz: scum please burn with fire
fb: ???????? who the fuck knows
johnny: null

VOTE: flopz let's kill it with fire thanks

I don't really disagree with the vote itself but super and infinity are both townreading flopz and I'm just like ?????????????????

i went thru and skimmed your iso real quick and this is all the "baiting" you did. it seems kind of disingenuous to imply (but not

really imply

) flopz is scum because of this, when like... i dont even think anyone, scum probably included, remembered this happened at all

I honestly cry a bit at every flopz post and if he’s town, I’m struggling to see why

n o o n e

is pushing him

and this kinda screams tmi

I think flopz is town..................

[lilith2013]

I don’t even know what chennis is trying to say, this seems like a wild misinterpretation

[lilith2013]

I think flopz is town??????

[lilith2013]

what

[lilith2013]

perhaps TMI was the wrong descriptor - what i meant to get across was "this feels very contrived to get a Thing done"

okay I mean the Thing I was trying to get Done was to see if anyone would join a flopz wagon for dubious reasons.. I feel like this can be appropriately called baiting?? therefore it seems like your concern with me is both that I baited and that I didn’t bait hard enough

[lilith2013]

not sure, I don’t think I’ve done it on LHF like this but I think I’ve voted someone I wasn’t scumreading to see what other people would do?

[lilith2013]

okay I can’t multiquote but it’s towards the top of pg 2 of my ISO here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=83833&user_select% ... &start=200

I was trying to decide if skitter/the worst was a viable scumteam so in 1960 I asked who would be willing to vote for duck, and skitter said yes. Then I voted skitter in 1983 to see if the worst would vote her, because I figured that if they were scum together and their spats were SvS, that they wouldn’t actually want to wagon the other. He did vote her so I felt comfortable saying they weren’t partners.

[lilith2013]

Lilith what do you think is the implication that Johnny has very easily hit 3 votes and had support for at least 5 in a very short timeframe almost out of nowhere

his ISO is really sparse so it’s really hard to tell, this could easily be bussing from the more vocal slots on him, like chennis. I’m not sure the wagon viability says much to me about his alignment tbh

[lilith2013]

Lilith what do you think is the implication that Johnny has very easily hit 3 votes and had support for at least 5 in a very short timeframe almost out of nowhere

his ISO is really sparse so it’s really hard to tell, this could easily be bussing from the more vocal slots on him, like chennis. I’m not sure the wagon viability says much to me about his alignment tbh

What do you think about what I said about how if Johnny is town there’s a lot more being left unresolved tomorrow than if infinity is town[/quote
I agree and have been thinking about switching

Also if you think chennis could be scum you should support my infinity push because they have high partner equity imo

why do you think they have high partner equity?

[lilith2013]

Lilith what do you think is the implication that Johnny has very easily hit 3 votes and had support for at least 5 in a very short timeframe almost out of nowhere

his ISO is really sparse so it’s really hard to tell, this could easily be bussing from the more vocal slots on him, like chennis. I’m not sure the wagon viability says much to me about his alignment tbh

What do you think about what I said about how if Johnny is town there’s a lot more being left unresolved tomorrow than if infinity is town

I agree and have been thinking about switching

Also if you think chennis could be scum you should support my infinity push because they have high partner equity imo

why do you think they have high partner equity?

rip quotes sorry

[lilith2013]

hi mena not to derail but did you have any response/thoughts to my comments on your original read on me

[lilith2013]

lilith do you think we would eliminate mena tomorrow if he was wrong on infinity?

I don’t know if it would be tomorrow, but if mena is town then he’d get eliminated at some point before endgame based on past experience

[lilith2013]

@mena

I was actually going to say like almost the same thing infinity did about mena’s initial reads list except with the added bonus of my opinion of his read on me being

lazy

. like his points about me were:

- energy: this is like, the reason I disagree the least with but by itself is a bad reason to put me in top town tier
- worried about my activity level!!!!! ok what, and also -> townread??
- haven’t read my case wall: ok why do you feel justified to talk about my activity level then because the whole point of my walls was to make up for lack of activity during busytimes
- “I should be sortable” - uh sorry? this is not a reason to put me in a top town tier. How does my being sortable put me in top townreads?

probably should make these into more coherent sentences

- read based on energy is fine but it’s the reason I least disagree with and on its own I don’t think is strong enough for top tier townread. how much of your read would you say is based on this?
- not sure why you brought up activity level and not sure why you would still put me in top tier if it was something you were concerned about
- you admitted to not reading my walls which should have cleared any concerns about my activity from point 2
- unclear how “lilith should be sortable” results in me being put into top tier townread since the only other point leading to townreading me is #1. these two points together don’t make that much sense to me for the strength of the read you professed.

[lilith2013]

chenn and lilith are both actually undermining my townread of infinity and they don't even realize it.

Interesting to watch.

I am not sure what this means

[lilith2013]

sorry, where did that happen? are you referring to my reaction to mena’s readslist being similar to infinity’s?

[lilith2013]

infinity gave his reaction first though, and chennis and I followed suit after. How do you figure that infinity is trying to get us to “mindmeld” with him?

[lilith2013]

perhaps TMI was the wrong descriptor - what i meant to get across was "this feels very contrived to get a Thing done"

okay I mean the Thing I was trying to get Done was to see if anyone would join a flopz wagon for dubious reasons.. I feel like this can be appropriately called baiting?? therefore it seems like your concern with me is both that I baited and that I didn’t bait hard enough

I do want to come back to this chennis, I know you “aren’t interested in me” but I’m now concerned your read on me is fake

[lilith2013]

ty for response mena

[lilith2013]

you’re fine, my main pet peeve is people adding too many L’s besides that I don’t care

[lilith2013]

no I still haven’t read up, sorry. I feel like sometimes I thought he was really scummy and sometimes I thought he said things that made a lot of sense. my team’s response was “yeet both mena and infinity” which wasn’t very helpful, lol

[lilith2013]

reasonable /= towny

I feel like I have to think really really hard to determine towniness of posts which is why I’m not really any help atm

[lilith2013]

I’m annoyed that koba never explained their really weird comment on amy’s readslist and that, if anything, is my strongest reason for thinking koba could have been scum

[lilith2013]

hi

[lilith2013]

this is the post I’m referring to

can someone explain why amp is scummy cuz their entrance reads were beefy and that kinda player usually sorts itself in tbe long run
also i think chenn is also possible scum and i wanna addess that when im a few drinks in

what about her reads were "beefy"? imo they were pretty vague and could easily be faked. Is there anything specifically in her readslist that felt towny to you?

@koba can you please respond to this

relevant thoughts on koba’s reaction to the readslist as well as my thoughts on the readslist itself (trimmed to relevant sections):

Spoiler: thoughts re: koba

I don't think I have good reasons to scumread them per se, but a lot of their positions seem like they are posturing to achieve certain things in the thread. Not necessarily scum-indicative, but it's not a playstyle that I agree with when it comes from town. For example, they insist that super might be scum and should not be townread and say that they have a gut feeling that super is scum, but then post things like this:

auro sees big paragraph from super: oh fuck this player is probably dangerous better pocket them

which doesn't mesh with the idea that super is scum. If they're scumreading auro then surely they don't think scum!auro is trying to "pocket" scum!super? I feel like this language belies the scumread/gutread on super that koba has been claiming to have.

can someone explain why amp is scummy cuz their entrance reads were beefy and that kinda player usually sorts itself in tbe long run
also i think chenn is also possible scum and i wanna addess that when im a few drinks in

I think this response is kind of weird considering all of the vagueness I found in the referenced post by amy. Just feels like they didn't bother to actually read the readslist and just saw a lot of words and went "ok." corresponding questions in the @koba section

Spoiler: thoughts re: amy (ampharos)

mmmmmmmmokay, we got enough of a game on our hands that I'm comfortable doing a quick sort

==lean v==

lilith

- Simply put, I think she's been asking the right sorts of questions, and showing the proper amount of care and followup towards said questions. It's easy for scum to just fire off some nonsense questions to try to blend in... but the fact that she's hounding people for answers and seems to be legitimately considering them and following up pretty strongly indicates town to me.

dkkoba

- honestly mostly vibes. I tried to find a concrete thing I could point to but I honestly just think the way they're navigating the thread rn is town-indicative. This is the type of read that always seems to wind up biting me in the ass somewhere down the line but that's future Amy's problem, heh

Super

- This one's cheating because I'm extremely susceptible to people who know how to write more than two sentences in a post, but I think I agree with her assessment that she should be a fairly easily townread (off my whopping sample size of one game lmao) and I'm feelin' it here.

==also kinda lean v but weaker i guess? tiers are fake anyways==

chennisden

- I noted #156 as being a read I thought was towny - I don't think it's necessarily a GOOD read here, but I think it's the type that comes from town more often than not.

Auro

- seems comfortable in-thread, in a villagery sort of way.

==danger zone!==

Firebringer

- Seems to be the sort of poster I always have trouble drawing a bead on, but I feel like the schtick felt a little forced early on, and I feel like his game-relevant contributions have been... easy, I guess? The most against-the-grain thing he's done, as far as I can tell, is locking Auro town, and if he's scum that seems like an easy TMI to make? Just based on the sort of poster Auro seems to be.

Autumn Leaves

(or Infinity, or whoever) - Approach feels somewhat cagey, and if Firebringer is town then I like this slot's posting about koba's "slip" a hell of a lot less - I think there's a tendency for scum to legitimately want to call things townslips if the person doing them is town, and I think that sharing such a thought is an easy way to contribute to the thread without much effort (obviously koba would ALSO have to be town here, but that's not something I'm super concerned about rn). I specify Firebringer being town in this scenario primarily due to the way Firebringer talks about this slot later on - namely, throwing a lot of shade and supporting votes in a way that I don't think is w/w.

===========

that's probably everyone who's posted, I think

I do seem to be on the outside looking in wrt meta stuff - I've got one game with Super, but it was a hydra game, and I've got one game with Auro (and maybe lilith? or maybe I made that up) as part of a THREE-headed hydra and I honestly couldn't tell you whose posts were whose for that one, so I'm not counting it. Kinda refreshing tbh - means I have to rely a lot more on actual analysis than I usually do, especially d1.

VOTE: Autumn Leaves

I initially didn't like this post
on reread I was okay with where the reads were position-wise
on second reread I still didn't like the post though

I'm probably not going to be able to explain this one properly but like, the reads themselves seem fine, they seem to be not crazy far out of lef field, so what on earth is my brain ringing alarm bells for? I should be happy that amy's reads are reasonable.. right????? and my conclusion is that it's something about the way she expresses the reads that doesn't sit right with me, and similar to what chennis was saying recently, these are kinda like,

safe

reads... ie easy for scum to make when looking at the gamestate at that time. and I don't think anything here is particularly unfakeable as scum. the townreads section is.. quite vague and I came away from this post with no idea of the specific things people had done to make amy townread them or like examples of where she thought they were towny. the scumreads section is also quite vague and I'm not very satisfied with the explanations on both infinity and fb which seem to be very conditional and then she voted infinity without explaining why she preferred infinity over fb (which by her written conditions in her reads, implies she thinks fb is more likely to be town?). I also feel like town!amy in the one game I've seen her in was a lot more specific/analytical than this, so while I hesitate to use meta as a sole argument for scumreading, I think more specificity is within her townrange and have yet to see it.

I feel like their reaction to the amy post was way too much of a pass... like it feels like they didn’t read any of the readslist itself and were just like “ah words towny” which is also how I felt they reacted to my series of walls.

secondarily (as also mentioned in above quote), I felt like there was maybe a disconnect in the way they were treating super when actively pushing her (forcefully calling her scum) vs not actively pushing her (scumread seemed to not really exist... kind of treated her like she was town), which made me feel like they were having trouble maintaining the facade of scumreading her if that makes sense.

I don’t think any of this is strong enough reason to eliminate this slot today, but these have definitely been bothering me. I’ll also openly say that I kind of intentionally held off on mentioning this for fear of getting into a shitfight with koba which I knew I wasn’t going to enjoy.

[lilith2013]

1) okay it seemed like I kept reposting this question to them and they kept avoiding responding, not sure why if the answer was just “oh I didn’t actually think it was towny”?
2) they were proposing not eliminating someone just because the someone can make big posts?

[lilith2013]

I legitimately need to sleep, I have meetings in 2 hours

Someone needs to slap me if I’m in this thread too late at night

[lilith2013]

I think you mistake my intent there? which is to say that I think koba slot being scum would spew you and super slot as town

[lilith2013]

i know that’s why i said to slap me ):

[lilith2013]

lllllillllllith

oic

i see what you did there

[lilith2013]

I think koba’s behavior around both my effortwalls and amy’s readslist looked really lazy and like they didn’t actually care about reading it -> it’s possible that it’s because they already knew our alignments (or it’s just a personality thing in which case it’s NAI)

super is not related to this specifically but I still think her slot is town if koba’s is scum

[lilith2013]

perhaps TMI was the wrong descriptor - what i meant to get across was "this feels very contrived to get a Thing done"

okay I mean the Thing I was trying to get Done was to see if anyone would join a flopz wagon for dubious reasons.. I feel like this can be appropriately called baiting?? therefore it seems like your concern with me is both that I baited and that I didn’t bait hard enough

I do want to come back to this chennis, I know you “aren’t interested in me” but I’m now concerned your read on me is fake

@chennis

[lilith2013]

@auro do you have nothing else to say about koba slot? I was kind of hoping for more of a response than “beefy just means lots of words”

[lilith2013]

I'm liking that joqiza is transparent about being easy to read. First few impressions have seemed genuine as well.

Does this mean you’re townreading him?

[lilith2013]

I have here the shittiest readslist of all time:

not willing to eliminate today: mena/joqiza/flopz
willing to eliminate today: auro/chennis/johnny/fb/koba!slot(pending)/infinity

[lilith2013]

you were townreading flopz, you say. but wuere? and your "reaction test" or wtv feels rly convenient to me still. i still think ur posts look like u were genuinely scumreading flopz then

I outed the thoughts about flopz being town when I said “I have intel that says this is probably just town!flopz” and then immediately talked about what I thought the implications of no wagon on him meant (ie that scum didn’t want flopz to be the D1 elim and already had other plans in motion)

I did initially scumread him, but then my team told me this was his town meta and it made sense that the gamestate felt so weird if he was town. But I didn’t see any point in saying this right away when I could leave my original posts about wanting to yeet him and hoping to see if anyone would join. I’m not sure what you mean by “convenient” given that I said I townread him before a wagon occurred and of my own volition/without any prompting? What exactly is convenient about the timing?

[lilith2013]

Is the flopz read just that he seemed like a place that too many people were willing to compromise or is there something else too?

I’ve been told by my team that this is p much how he plays as town

[lilith2013]

Feel like I'd rather elim Chennis than AL

? how did you get from here to voting infinity?

[lilith2013]

I’ve been told by my team that this is p much how he plays as town

Can you ask your sources how that differs from his scumplay?

I don’t think they have any firsthand experience. They tell me we can ask infinity though

[lilith2013]

earliest I’ve finished work all damn week \o/ I’m rewarding myself with sleep. goodbye

[lilith2013]

thanks for the posts joqiza!

re: koba I agree, which is why I said a while ago that koba was “probably town but I didn’t want to townread them.” I think they have elements to their playstyle that are like scummy regardless of alignment, like that they have an agenda or sometimes an ass-backwards view of the game but it doesn’t necessarily mean anything.

Can you explain the differentiation between the first null group and second a bit more? Johnny was also reluctant to join a wagon on infinity, so what sets him apart from chennis/fb/auro?

[lilith2013]

can you explain what you found genuine about 1069[/post?

[lilith2013]

oops. 1069

[lilith2013]

okay gonna do my best to parse mena/super vs infinity. I’m probably going to do a quicker pass through now and a longer one tomorrow. I mostly don’t feel like getting out of bed to get to a computer atm.... sorry

[lilith2013]

@aurk can you explain how infinity and chennis have partner equity?

[lilith2013]

my initial reaction to infinity expressing doubts about super and super then jumping on infinity is that I think they’re both being reasonable

infinity doesn’t seem to really scumread super that hard, just more discussing the possibility that there is a deepwolf, I guess the only line here that super was able to jump on was infinity saying that he’d vote super

if

a super wagon appeared. I still don’t really think that’s unreasonable though. I think this is really similar to the discussions we’ve been having recently about like, koba, so I don’t think this is scummy.

I think that viewing super’s reaction through somewhat of a nancy lens makes her response understandable too - she sees someone suspicious of her and is so frustrated with someone not townreading her that she overreacts, when the original premise wasn’t actually someone scumreading her. Probably town-indicative but again I really don’t like that as a site our response to any emotional outburst is “oh that’s town, they wouldn’t fake being this upset as scum”

[lilith2013]

What do you think it says about her slot then?

[lilith2013]

yes they do

@mod can we get prods please

[lilith2013]

I think you can see a hint of what her eventual reaction will be in 1333, I agree it wasn’t great that she didn’t say her team worked her up so much, but I think her reaction would have been similar anyway. Just maybe not so aggressive.

[lilith2013]

That was a major part of my push on Super , however, you'll find my updated thoughts on the slot on the previous page.

can you link me? can’t find

[lilith2013]

I think you can see a hint of what her eventual reaction will be in 1333, I agree it wasn’t great that she didn’t say her team worked her up so much, but I think her reaction would have been similar anyway. Just maybe not so aggressive.

You're evaluating her team's perspective from what you assume Super's personal Nancy-esque response would be though, isn't that inaccurate?

I think she would have reacted similarly anyway, because that post is a precursor to her going after him. the lag in actually going after him seems to be because she was at work. I think her team’s response probably got her more emotional about it but I don’t know/think if that really changed what her reaction would have been like. Are you suggesting that she faked an emotional response and pinning it on her teammates?

[lilith2013]

Are we forbidden from talking about replacements in TM?

Primary reasoning is that I don't have the drive to push through, secondary is that I think AL has +scum equity because Super!slot has +town equity for reasons, third is that Chen-AL do seem to have some partner equity.

Are we forbidden from talking about replacements in TM?

Generally speaking, it's theoretically optimal for a team needing a town replacement to find someone extremely easy to read~

I don’t really understand what this means

[lilith2013]

I think you can see a hint of what her eventual reaction will be in 1333, I agree it wasn’t great that she didn’t say her team worked her up so much, but I think her reaction would have been similar anyway. Just maybe not so aggressive.

You're evaluating her team's perspective from what you assume Super's personal Nancy-esque response would be though, isn't that inaccurate?

Are your questions because you think super is being scummy and are trying to convince me of that or because you’re trying to sort me?

[lilith2013]

boop

[lilith2013]

okay, helps to know whether we are just arguing for the sake of arguing

[lilith2013]

should note that a few days ago I started making a list of people I thought couldn’t be scum together, and based off the list I was inclined to say super was town because there were very few people I thought she could have been partnered with. Obviously a bit of a moot point now, but I want to say that I’d be independently townreading her

[lilith2013]

I think her team’s response probably got her more emotional about it but I don’t know/think if that really changed what her reaction would have been like. Are you suggesting that she faked an emotional response and pinning it on her teammates?

Her reaction independent of that would have been to just carry a conversation with AL digging into it, while maybe just expressing a similar dislike, no?

I won't say she faked emotion, it's totally possible to have the same emotion if you think you're unfairly (or for "bad reasons") being read as scum even if you're scum. I got the feeling that her team *told* her to respond aggressively and attack AL in that way, post which she did.

I also voted her, expressed a strong scumread on her and pushed her - have you read her general response to that? What would you make of it?

In my head I think the main impact of super’s team was that she came out with this coherent set of points against infinity, which I think is similar to what you’re saying. I think her independent reaction would have had the same tone as her last paragraph though - eg “WHY would you go after your deepwolf read?????????” I think her team maybe also led her to miscontrue some of what infinity was saying as if it were a push on her when he was just expressing thoughts - I don’t think intentional winding up but that’s my guess as to what happened.

have not read that far

I’m not sure if I’m understanding what you’re trying to get at and therefore don’t think I’m responding in a way that’s helpful for you to sort me. I suppose it’s up to you if you want to clarify what you’re looking for or just keep asking questions

[lilith2013]

rip fell asleep and lost my post. sad D:

hi mathblade!

[lilith2013]

- infinity (autumn leaves) pressured early, I think defused by chennis who said gamestate didn’t feel right / townbloc too easy (oh my LORD now that i’m writing this it does sound quite partnery)
- lots of shitfights between koba and super
- infinity mentions some suspicion on super being deepwolf, super responds by pushing infinity, mena replaces in and infinity calls him scum, mena calls infinity scum, lots of yelling between mena, koba, infinity, super (I’m still trying to reread this part because it got really confusing)
- infinity tried to start mini wagon on flopz (presumably when it seemed like pushing mena/super wasn’t going anywhere)
- mini wagon on Johnny without much of a counterwagon
- we are around here now?? not sure if I missed anything important

[lilith2013]

most recent reads

I have here the shittiest readslist of all time:

not willing to eliminate today: mena/joqiza/flopz
willing to eliminate today: auro/chennis/johnny/fb/koba!slot(pending)/infinity

[lilith2013]

fwiw I don’t think we should wait a ton longer to end D1. we’re all just going to get apathetic if this drags out much longer. I think we should let mathblade get caught up and hopefully I can finish my reread and then let’s start wagoning people. I think we’re already starting to flag (get it? ha I’m so funny).

ask for everyone if you haven’t done this recently:
- quick readslist (can be as quick as mine above, ie willing to elim vs not willing)
- ideal elim for today

[lilith2013]

When/why did chennis move into your bottom tier?

[lilith2013]

fb can you summarize reasons for scum!mena?

[lilith2013]

): not even a sentence or two?

[lilith2013]

thank you

[lilith2013]

yes but i lost a pagetop for it so idk if worth

[lilith2013]

Since you don’t seem interested in trying to convince anyone, I’m not going to try to argue about stuff and will instead just file it in my brain for later

[lilith2013]

i mean... yes? is that a problem?

[lilith2013]

@fb yeah that’s why I said there was no need for me to respond/for us to hash it out. Sorry if you feel like you wasted effort.

[lilith2013]

very very sorry. need to take a bit of a mental day. getting around to reading stuff when I can.

[lilith2013]

do you prefer infinity over johnny?

[lilith2013]

for some reason I thiught you were on Johnny please ignore me lol

I still don’t really feel comfortable personally voting infinity without (still, sorry ) having read the super/mena/infinity stuff. I will really really try to get to this today but to make it easier on myself I’m probably going to read but not post much other than my conclusion

[lilith2013]

You're fine with Johnny at lim-1 with double intent?

Comfortable presence on Johnny wagon while AL vote needs consideration -> AL partner equity.

????

[lilith2013]

VOTE: autumn leaves

there

I don’t even particularly support a johnny elim. Does this satisfy your “scum won’t put their vote blah blah blah” expectations?

probably not because you’re going to argue that this is just for show, am I right?

[lilith2013]

I could probably vote mathblade, their posts made me say “blegh”

[lilith2013]

btw here is the official review of your limerick from SS: “6/10 good rhymes weird meter”

[lilith2013]

koba’s playstyle is audacious so I don’t see why chainsawing infinity couldn’t be a thing. they did that in legends.

why mathblade > infinity now? after I just joined the wagon too .o.

[lilith2013]

There once was a lad named Something_Smart,
My limericks he wished to tear apart,
If he can do better,
I’ll send him a sweater,
But if not he’s only getting a fart!

do I need to defend
the honor of a friend?
I assure you I can vouch
that on poems he’s no slouch.
to prove you wrong would be my pleasure -
please peruse this at your leisure.

[lilith2013]

Also, like, I don’t think me voting math is that surprising lili: I already said that if infinity!town that’s where I’d wanna go tomorrow. I’m not sure there’s that much to be lost in reversing the order, but I’ll switch back to infinity if there isn’t support for this, I wanna end day shortly

I don’t think it’s an unreasonable vote? more asking because of wagoning things do you know what I mean

to be honest I don’t even know what I mean

[lilith2013]

koba’s playstyle is audacious so I don’t see why chainsawing infinity couldn’t be a thing. they did that in legends.

why mathblade > infinity now? after I just joined the wagon too .o.

Honestly he’s just annoying me more than infinity is at this point

I don’t really wanna do johnny tho, I just wanted to see if there would be any panic unvotes from anyone who knew he’d flip town

there weren’t any though?

[lilith2013]

at your behest I will relay this request;
no need to feel ashamed when he bests you at your game,
although I’m not allowed to quote so this point is kind of moot.

[lilith2013]

back to game-related content: I think auro has decent chance of being scum regardless of what infinity flips

[lilith2013]

I think my main concern about wagoning math’s slot is that everyone seemed to turn on the koba slot at the same time. either we’re all town having some crazy telepathy or ???

but I also think chennis might be scum so idk how much to trust his assessment of the gamestate as being too... circlejerky, for want of a better word

[lilith2013]

well I meant to hit preview but hit submit instead

[lilith2013]

have to go do lots of work now but I’ll try to be back later

[lilith2013]

back to game-related content: I think auro has decent chance of being scum regardless of what infinity flips

Was that because I said I'd be considering eliminating you post Autumn/Chennis?

you seem to admit that I’m pretty universally townread without having ever stated a read on me yourself in either direction. Also you seem to not be making much effort to sort me if you actually do have doubts about my slot. it seems like you’re randomly paranoid of me for like 10 seconds at a time and then can’t manage to fake it the rest of the time.

here’s the part I found contradictory to your recent statements about me

P(Town|Serious) is high.

And that's what concerns me; it isn't a

good

proposition.

And if 4+ townread players are able to align their reads and generate meaningful wagons I wouldn't be as bothered that they would "intimidating everyone else into submission", I'd much rather prefer that to everyone just voting wherever, "compromising" on some read at the end of the day and achieving nothing of substance.

This was a good response, thanks for being willing to work with me even if we mutually dislike each other's

slots

. Although I might add that "4+ townread players" kind of doesn't exist at this state of the game.

And that's what concerns me; it isn't a good proposition

I don't disagree that it's a "bad" proposition in that it's unhealthy, just that it's a solid reason to tr the slot

I think they partially do? Super!slot, Lilith for starters

[lilith2013]

why are you talking about partner equity if you think i’m town

where have you stated that you’re townreading me? your interactions around me have consisted of trying to discredit townreads on me and now saying I have partner equity for doing something that’s consistent with what I’ve done all game.

do you have reasons to townread johnny?

[lilith2013]

I had other thoughts about potential scum!auro but I can’t dedicate enough brainpower atm to flesh this out. It was mostly a vague brain thought that appeared and now I can’t get rid of it

[lilith2013]

would prefer fb > auro in bloc I think. team likes fb

[lilith2013]

was that not in direct response to this?

for some reason I thiught you were on Johnny please ignore me lol

I still don’t really feel comfortable personally voting infinity without (still, sorry ) having read the super/mena/infinity stuff. I will really really try to get to this today but to make it easier on myself I’m probably going to read but not post much other than my conclusion

You're fine with Johnny at lim-1 with double intent?

[lilith2013]

at your behest I will relay this request;
no need to feel ashamed when he bests you at your game,
although I’m not allowed to quote so this point is kind of moot.

@mena: SS has written his own limerick which he’ll post in post-game. Since I can’t quote him, I’ve paraphrased his limerick as my own limerick.

Your lines mediocre we found
We knew when you sent this quest ‘round
We’d own you complete
With first class technique
Our rhythms and rhymes strong and sound

[lilith2013]

SS has also written a limerick about Johnny which I have also paraphrased as my own limerick.

When asked to give thoughts he declined
Except that he death didn’t mind
So bad’s his reaction
He’s bussed by his faction!
His partners on wagon we’ll find.

[lilith2013]

okay but koba’s scumread on me and their read of me and super being partnered was based on some bullshit

[lilith2013]

Wdym by some bullshit? I think it was based on the fact that Koba was suspicious of Super already, and they thought that Super's reaction indicated that you were her partner.

I said I think Koba was scumhunting, I didn't say I think they were

good

at it.

koba was scumreading me because they thought me being unable to take a stance was scum-indicative, and that led to them thinking that super and I were aligned when she told them to back off. Unless you’re saying that was a reaction test of some kind?

[lilith2013]

hi shirou nice to meet you

what you’re saying about koba having no progression on super is also something that I pointed out earlier. I think on one hand it’s scummy; but on the other I have an impression of koba that they would play with agenda as town as well. I think you’re kind of trying to get at an occam’s razor thing, like let’s assume anyone playing with agenda is doing so because they’re scum.

@mena no response to my limericks big sad

[lilith2013]

anyway I’m down to vote math

[lilith2013]

yeah I feel you

I think infinity is saying (and I agree) that koba has a playstyle/history that makes #2 more possible. My team actually told me to trust infinity’s read on koba because he’s supposed to be good at reading them, which is why I was kind of like “okay I guess I’ll townread koba” in the beginning.

[lilith2013]

Shirou if you're so convinced DkKoba is scum how do you feel about Johnny's comment where he said "in no way is this DkKoba's scum game"

hmm joqiza do you think that’s a partnery thing to do or anti-partnery? you think it spews koba-slot town because johnny is just doing a consensus read on koba?

[lilith2013]

because I thought you made that comment as a response to me not wanting to join the infinity wagon and not as a hypothetical response? I’m not sure if I really think that matters but I also don’t see the point in discussing further if I can’t articulate any clear reasons

[lilith2013]

there are other points in the game where I’ve had similar thoughts but have not had capacity to put together sentences about why I thought that

[lilith2013]

shirou I think unfortunately koba is a bit of a moot point because they’re gone. I wouldn’t spend time meta-ing them

what everyone is saying is we have math now, read math instead because you can interact real time and then we don’t have to go through this question of “would koba do this as town?” without being able to ask them questions

[lilith2013]

I mean obviously we’re all thinking about it because we were in the game with koba, but I don’t really care for math’s posts either. maybe playstyle thing but he spends so much time arguing about things that don’t help anyone sort anyone

[lilith2013]

@mena no response to my limericks big sad

It’ll come, patience, patience

ss in discord: “mena realized he been schooled”

[lilith2013]

don’t worry I’m really awful at playing scum

[lilith2013]

I mean obviously we’re all thinking about it because we were in the game with koba, but I don’t really care for math’s posts either. maybe playstyle thing but he spends so much time arguing about things that don’t help anyone sort anyone

Have you tried to engage him?

there are so many posts and my mind just goes “blegh”

[lilith2013]

if u townread me i will challenge menalque to a rap battle

Now this is a story all about how,
My life got flipped turned upside down,
Let me take a minute just sit at the bar,
And let me tell you how I became last year’s Rising Star

Mafiascum(dot)net born and raised,
The open queue’s where I spent most of my days,
Chillin out, maxin’, relaxin’ all sweet,
And formin some townblocs — man, we had ‘em beat

When a couple of scumfucks who were up to no good
Started making trouble in main thread and neighbourhoods
I got in one little fight and the team got scared,
Said we gotta shoot this guy N1 he’s a regular Voltaire
Started making

excuse me where is my limerick

[lilith2013]

mena doesn’t deserve hammer unless he replies to my limericks

[lilith2013]

I’d hammer, is johnny at e-2?

[lilith2013]

we’re not like, expecting to get anything more out of johnny right? no reason to delay this then

pedit: yayy

[lilith2013]

we’re already in a much greater battle, the title of best limericker

[lilith2013]

no particular order in same row

jqoiza menalque shirou
lilith autumn
auro mathblade
johnny flopz

okay i feel like being petty right now, one of your major set of actions this game has been to try to prevent townblocing of all the loud people and scumreading all the lhf... but your readslist is basically doing what you said we shouldn’t

[lilith2013]

HOLD ON I’M BUSY BEING PETTY

[lilith2013]

okay i feel like being petty right now, one of your major set of actions this game has been to try to prevent townblocing of all the loud people and scumreading all the lhf... but your readslist is basically doing what you said we shouldn’t

That's a reason I lost my scumread on him actually, all that posturing against townblocking would need to have a payoff to be beneficial, otherwise just makes it harder for him to avoid being pushed

is the payoff not that we spent an extra ~100 pages arguing, super and koba got in shitfights, and super replaced out? among other things?

[lilith2013]

goddammit

[lilith2013]

anyway whatever this is a tomorrow problem right

[lilith2013]

VOTE: johnny

[lilith2013]

okay i feel like being petty right now, one of your major set of actions this game has been to try to prevent townblocing of all the loud people and scumreading all the lhf... but your readslist is basically doing what you said we shouldn’t

That's a reason I lost my scumread on him actually, all that posturing against townblocking would need to have a payoff to be beneficial, otherwise just makes it harder for him to avoid being pushed

is the payoff not that we spent an extra ~100 pages arguing, super and koba got in shitfights, and super replaced out? among other things?

Is this insinuating that my posturing against the townblock was enough to cause this? Because I think that stuff happened on its own

fmpov there was a natural gelling that was happening and we were being pretty cohesive - I don’t think all of the other stuff wouldn’t have happened at all, but I think D1 would have ended a lot more quickly and that probably would have prevented some of the shitfights

[lilith2013]

if everyone in the early townbloc is town then +++scum basically

[lilith2013]

tbone give us a scumflip plz

[lilith2013]

I would like to repost this both as a reminder of my limerick prowess and as a note if johnny flips scum

SS has also written a limerick about Johnny which I have also paraphrased as my own limerick.

When asked to give thoughts he declined
Except that he death didn’t mind
So bad’s his reaction
He’s bussed by his faction!
His partners on wagon we’ll find.

[lilith2013]

he who doesn’t deserve to be named

????

[lilith2013]

he who doesn’t deserve to be named

????

Are you trying to insinuate that shirou is being coached by abr?

[lilith2013]

okay abr is permabanned

I’m pretty sure it’s against the rules to communicate about these games outside of your MS-ordained PT and discord server

So you’re just.... casually accusing shirou and team of breaking rules by conversing with a permabanned user to get ahead in a game?

[lilith2013]

this is honestly fucking wild

[lilith2013]

I see, apologies for misinterpreting

my opinion of ABR’s scumgame is lower than my opinion of fb’s scumgame and according to mena shirou’s scumgame probably blows both of theirs out of the water

[lilith2013]

no worries, I think we all do (or should/would given enough interaction). although this is probably getting off topic now

[lilith2013]

Mena you overestimate me...but thanks

I don’t think so, there’s few enough players that completely snowed (not just fooled but completely

snowed

) RC when he was playing and you did so in a p spectacular fashion

this sounds like a juicy story

[lilith2013]

lmao

[lilith2013]

sorry your townbloc strategy is not new, I would not consider that a major threat..?

[lilith2013]

Titus says (paraphrased) "He's toxic to his

teammates

everyone then wonders why

he always dies day 1 in most of his scumgames

no one wants to listen to him" (about ABR) lmao

ftfy

[lilith2013]

the beauty of this game is we don’t actually need to find the deepwolf

[lilith2013]

okay

[lilith2013]

the other option is me

[lilith2013]

Since we're talking about my scum game here...

I don't expect anyone to believe me I suppose, since my alignment is still not confirmed, but after game rest assured that whatever idea you had about my scum game before, it's significantly weaker now.

I simply don't have the same stamina to play mafia that I used to, I'm barely caught up here but I'm already quite tired/want to do something else, I don't have any particular motivation to tryhard as either town or scum as I used to before.

Scum play is less, say, frustrating than town since you know everyone alignment since the start, but it's much more exhausting than town if you're really trying to win, because as town you can just give up on town and say "it's not my fault if we lose this", but as scum you're much more responsible for your team's fate. There's much more responsibility in being scum than there is in being town, whether people shoulder that responsibility is another story.

I don't have even stamina enough for town play nowadays, completely rule out of the possibility I could spam as scum as much as I used to, because good scum play does require you to constantly talk, argue and pick fights against town to deceive them. It's just not in the range of what I can do today.

Look at my last scum game for example, I used a much more passive/weaker way of playing simply because I already didn't have enough stamina back then, and I've even less now.

Yeah...not going to do that. I am not even caught up on this game and you want me to hunt for a game that says your point? Not gonna happen.

no one asked anyone to go look at games

[lilith2013]

I realized I actually do have meta on scum!math so I’ll probably go look at that at some point, but I feel decent scumreading math

[lilith2013]

Since we're talking about my scum game here...

I don't expect anyone to believe me I suppose, since my alignment is still not confirmed, but after game rest assured that whatever idea you had about my scum game before, it's significantly weaker now.

I simply don't have the same stamina to play mafia that I used to, I'm barely caught up here but I'm already quite tired/want to do something else, I don't have any particular motivation to tryhard as either town or scum as I used to before.

Scum play is less, say, frustrating than town since you know everyone alignment since the start, but it's much more exhausting than town if you're really trying to win, because as town you can just give up on town and say "it's not my fault if we lose this", but as scum you're much more responsible for your team's fate. There's much more responsibility in being scum than there is in being town, whether people shoulder that responsibility is another story.

I don't have even stamina enough for town play nowadays, completely rule out of the possibility I could spam as scum as much as I used to, because good scum play does require you to constantly talk, argue and pick fights against town to deceive them. It's just not in the range of what I can do today.

Look at my last scum game for example, I used a much more passive/weaker way of playing simply because I already didn't have enough stamina back then, and I've even less now.

Yeah...not going to do that. I am not even caught up on this game and you want me to hunt for a game that says your point? Not gonna happen.

no one asked anyone to go look at games

Are you reading? Shirou literally just asked me to look at their last scum game lol. Like wtf? Am I in gaslightville?

which sentence in the post you quoted is a request to look at his scumgame?

[lilith2013]

I legitimately cannot articulate how flabbergasted I am

[lilith2013]

Look at my last scum game for example, I used a much more passive/weaker way of playing simply because I already didn't have enough stamina back then, and I've even less now.

^^ it’s literally right there.

Wtf

Lunch is over I gotta go but something stinks here

He’s not asking for anyone to look at the game, he’s describing it and saying “here’s an example”?????

[lilith2013]

This isn’t even relevant to anything in the game, shirou was just like... offering up some philosophical analysis of himself. He’s not using it to defend against something and including meta as an argument.

[lilith2013]

This is fucking wild

[lilith2013]

VOTE: mathblade

[lilith2013]

it’s a new fucking day isn’t it????

[lilith2013]

whatever consider my d2 vote on math

[lilith2013]

for context, the only other time I’ve played with math, I was town and he was scum, and I felt this

exact

same frustration of like... math deliberately misunderstanding everything and blowing up these arguments that didn’t even make sense

[lilith2013]

oh idk my other nightless game had no night (ps no break sucked)

[lilith2013]

for context, the only other time I’ve played with math, I was town and he was scum, and I felt this

exact

same frustration of like... math deliberately misunderstanding everything and blowing up these arguments that didn’t even make sense

yeah this was my experience in the wolves game as well, that's why I pointed out that I personally don't like when he sees to be deliberately saying unrealistic things, but contrary to you I don't really have that much of a bad impression on his (what I assume is) misinterpretation of what I said.

Saying it "stinks" is kinda in bad-faith but at the moment I don't have any deep feelings about it.

it feels like it applies to this game as a whole though, like he’s just arguing about anything and everything for the sake of arguing, even when it’s not relevant to alignment

[lilith2013]

I’m still happy with a me/mena/joqiza/shirou townbloc