TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[Flopz]

do u think im scum? Cause ive been the biggest person against autumn wagon and i don't see who else is scum trying to ensure it doesn't happen?
maybe chennisden but who else?

I don't think they need to be explicitly loud voices, I think I'd go Chen then {Lilith/you} if game doesn't end.

Menal makes a good point here actually, in that scenario why is Lilitih in your POE after Infinity and Chen?

Now you’re listening to Menal? Wtf?

(Stopped here lunch break is over)

Define listening? Men question marked something Auro said that I thought was interesting to follow-up on. I think you're super jumping the gun rn

[Flopz]

In terms of who we'd bring into the block of me/Mena/Auro/Lilith as the fifth, I would be okay with Firebringer at the moment but this is the kind of read that is contingent on flips. If Johnny flips scum I think he might spew Kobaslot town.

Damn, I'm pretty hurt rn

[T-Bone]

Please check your team Discords or PTs within the next 15-20 minutes. I will be pausing the game.

[T-Bone]

All good. I wanted everyone to check UT's message. There are no issues with our game. Please continue. If you have any questions you can PM me or tag me in your team's Discord.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Is anybody wanting to know anything?

Mastina reads if she's had a chance to read up.
Would you be able to catch up and form reads?

Mastina has been busy, replacing into something like this has to be hard.

Honestly speaking, catching up probably isn't going to happen.

I mean there’s also interest in infinity or in mathblade (or maybe in me?) so you can try to argue why one of those 3 slots would be a better flip than you or for someone else entirely

I mean they're all better than me, but I can't really say I've found any of those slots scummy. I think voting infinity would give more info than me, though.

VOTE: Infinity

What consequences?

Just a town flip. I was under the impression that this game didn't have roles?

I'm around for a while if anybody wants to chat

[JohnnyFarrar]

Mena and mathblade wagons sound bonkers to me? Why are either of theman option?

[lilith2013]

at your behest I will relay this request;
no need to feel ashamed when he bests you at your game,
although I’m not allowed to quote so this point is kind of moot.

@mena: SS has written his own limerick which he’ll post in post-game. Since I can’t quote him, I’ve paraphrased his limerick as my own limerick.

Your lines mediocre we found
We knew when you sent this quest ‘round
We’d own you complete
With first class technique
Our rhythms and rhymes strong and sound

[lilith2013]

SS has also written a limerick about Johnny which I have also paraphrased as my own limerick.

When asked to give thoughts he declined
Except that he death didn’t mind
So bad’s his reaction
He’s bussed by his faction!
His partners on wagon we’ll find.

[chennisden]

Auro what do you think of fb again?

By play, townread -> vibing with him, plus his defusing of unhealthy tension in the game. Also I read his mild AtE regarding the pointlessness of talking to Lilith towny.

Don't think him being reasonable is him being town -- I think he'd try to diffuse unhealthy tension regardless of alignment.

[joqiza]

@Menalque

Here's the progression from Koba that I liked (a bit long):

{
500,

Koba says they won't be able to eliminate scum!Super d1

965,
966,

Koba thinks Super might be scum, but is looking outside

1006,

Koba votes lilith

1011,
1012,
1013,
1023,
1026,

Koba is gauging Super's response here

1028,

Koba thinks lilith/Super are partnered

1034,
1036,

Koba wants to lim lilith first because they don't think they can lim Super d1

1038,

Koba still appears to be evaluating their own read, though

1044,
1058,
1072,

Koba asks Super for a reads list

1080,
1082,
1096,
1106
}

Koba expressed a paranoia of Super, but acknowledged that they didn't think they could ever find eliminate her d1. When they voted lilith, they seemed to believe that Super's response was partner-indicative. They appeared to be trying to re-evaluate their own read, and asked Super for a reads list.

Koba has watched me catch scum!Super twice. Once while Koba and I were in a hydra together. Both times, I caught Super because she demonstrated TMI about flipped slots.

This is a complex thought process for scum to fake. In addition to that, it is largely internal, they're not trying to show off their towny thought process, they're just scumhunting. And, based on my personal meta with them, I believe is likely they would have this thought process as town.

[chennisden]

You don’t have a reliable “good at maths” kid

*Raises hand* Just let me

integrate

into the town block.

Haha. I will put you in the dont elim pile today.

This joke will be quite

derivative

of Auro's

[lilith2013]

okay but koba’s scumread on me and their read of me and super being partnered was based on some bullshit

[joqiza]

Wdym by some bullshit? I think it was based on the fact that Koba was suspicious of Super already, and they thought that Super's reaction indicated that you were her partner.

I said I think Koba was scumhunting, I didn't say I think they were

good

at it.

[chennisden]

new attack on titan released gonna watch and sleep; cya auro

good priorities

While I'm not against this wagon, Johnny is second on my POE, I'm not the biggest fan of Chenn starting the wagon and I'm worried that on a Town-flip, people are just gonna push Infinity again. It is quite curious that with all the shade that's been applied Chenn hasn't really got voted and I'd rather a lim there.

thats because i scare the votes away

also this implies you read infinity as town, so can you explain why

koba’s playstyle is audacious so I don’t see why chainsawing infinity couldn’t be a thing. they did that in legends.

why mathblade > infinity now? after I just joined the wagon too .o.

Honestly he’s just annoying me more than infinity is at this point

I don’t really wanna do johnny tho, I just wanted to see if there would be any panic unvotes from anyone who knew he’d flip town

why would scum "panic unvote" him? wouldnt scum be more likely to hang on just in case?

[lilith2013]

Wdym by some bullshit? I think it was based on the fact that Koba was suspicious of Super already, and they thought that Super's reaction indicated that you were her partner.

I said I think Koba was scumhunting, I didn't say I think they were

good

at it.

koba was scumreading me because they thought me being unable to take a stance was scum-indicative, and that led to them thinking that super and I were aligned when she told them to back off. Unless you’re saying that was a reaction test of some kind?

[MathBlade]

Flashwagoning mathblade would also be fun

Fun? Probably. Bad for town? Absolutely.

While things can be fun, not all things are things we should be doing.

[joqiza]

Lilith I think Koba probably did think you were scummy. They also expressed that they thought Super was scummy. What I'm saying is I think they thought Super's reaction indicated that you were her scum partner, and the fact that they then proposed going lilith -> super segues really well with the sentiment they expressed earlier about never being able to elim scum!Super d1 and having to go after her partners first.

[chennisden]

Flashwagoning mathblade would also be fun

Keeping me around would be fun

[MathBlade]

koba’s playstyle is audacious so I don’t see why chainsawing infinity couldn’t be a thing. they did that in legends.

why mathblade > infinity now? after I just joined the wagon too .o.

I like this. Good question. The only memorable wagon changes of note between here and there was a wagon on Johnny and me voting Flopz.
Menalque doesn’t strike me as a panic!scum player so maybe Menalque Johnny?

But in any of those worlds I elim Johnny first. If then else is a bad idea especially since I think Menalque is power wolfing.

[MathBlade]

There once was a lad named Something_Smart,
My limericks he wished to tear apart,
If he can do better,
I’ll send him a sweater,
But if not he’s only getting a fart!

There once was no context for something like this,
Apparently rhyming brings him happiness,
I would appreciate if this would stop,
Because this makes my internal gut reader flop

[MathBlade]

koba’s playstyle is audacious so I don’t see why chainsawing infinity couldn’t be a thing. they did that in legends.

why mathblade > infinity now? after I just joined the wagon too .o.

Honestly he’s just annoying me more than infinity is at this point

I don’t really wanna do johnny tho, I just wanted to see if there would be any panic unvotes from anyone who knew he’d flip town

What makes you not want to do Johnny exactly?

[MathBlade]

I think math continuing to just give takes and to not read up or read ISOs is a Bad Look (tm)

I already said I couldn’t do this yet due to real life.
This is a very bad take.

I can and do plan on catching up I just can’t do that now without losing the context here.

[MathBlade]

back to game-related content: I think auro has decent chance of being scum regardless of what infinity flips

Interesting, why?

[MathBlade]

Also, like, I don’t think me voting math is that surprising lili: I already said that if infinity!town that’s where I’d wanna go tomorrow. I’m not sure there’s that much to be lost in reversing the order, but I’ll switch back to infinity if there isn’t support for this, I wanna end day shortly

I don’t think it’s an unreasonable vote? more asking because of wagoning things do you know what I mean

to be honest I don’t even know what I mean

Not... exactly? Basically, full disclosure, this is from a practical POV: I would like to kill in (infinity, math) until scumflip. If there’s not scum then I’ve fucked up p badly, so be it, that can’t be helped, but I think there’s decent odds there’s scum in there, probably >rand odds. I’ve fought all day for infinity and still think a lot would be resolved by flipping him — eg I think we almost always just kill in (Johnny and chenn) the next two days then reevaluate if the game isn’t over. However, I feel less confident on infinity than I did earlier — this may be because I’ve more or less made it clear what to do to get a TR from me (engage me in good faith, try to focus beyond small areas) and so he’s just... done that. He still hasn’t towned it up at all like he did in PyP imo, but he has improved.

Math coming in, proposing a big grand strategy, and then getting super shitty when I wanted to verify that it’s actually a strat that’s good for town is... dubious. Especially as I think he’d have used the fact that he proposed the strategy to try to ensure he was in the townbloc (where, if he’s scum, that definitely... weakens the strat and makes it easier for scum because one of them is fairly safe from elim). I also dislike his points that I don’t want a townbloc when among my opening posts I said something very along the lines of “if I can just find like 3 other town I’m confident in, ideally 4, then the game is basically won”. Which is not precisely talking about townblocs but which is thinking in that sort of way — successfully PoEing scum. Then there’s koba basically having just lazily tunnelled me/super for the entirety of the game after my rep in. I just don’t get good vibes from how math is playing this, and his lack of reading is concerning to me. I dislike that he’s pushing me without having read my ISO, and I dislike how quickly his suspicion of fb disappeared as soon as I *asked* about his strat. Wasn’t even critical, just asked about it.

So basically, I’m less sure on infinity and math has made the koba!slot worse imo. Which then brings me to my final reason for switching: I feel like it’s gonna be easier killing math today. I think infinity has sort of locked himself into a bad position as scum because he knows I’m very dubious of him but by insisting he super duper TRs me I think that’s a hard place to pivot out of it I push him tomorrow for instance (which I will prob be doing if math doesn’t flip scum). Whereas I feel like it’s going to be another absolute fucking slogfest to elim math tomorrow if I *am* wrong on infinity, and so for that reason I think I’d rather reverse the order rn

Oh no, this strategy I mentioned is the best strategy. Regardless of if everyone instantly dumped votes on me for a green flip.

You realize you’re in essence BOPing me for not reading 100+ pages in about 50 hours while working for 8 of them and actually having a fucking life on Sunday and doing my best to answer questions asked in other games? Yes I haven’t read backwards and yes that is shitty. But town’s got what it got. But I think at some point if you’re somehow town you have to realize my entire life cannot and will not revolve around mafia. This is a game ffs.

[MathBlade]

Re: Math slot - I'd like to hear if Nancy is following the game.

I have put out a notification in discord to ask but I follow the rule of you’re playing with me, not my teammates, I may ask them if I get stuck on a read but I am not actively playing the game as their surrogate.