Mini 2332: A Mid-scummer Nights Dream II | GG
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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well, it doesn't look like it is on the surface. but the hooks are there underneath and that's what's really interesting to me
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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hi prism
should i revisit?
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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im not even sure that it's really is evidence that makes her scum or would be convincing to anyone at all tbh but it feels... idk, tantalizing. like i potentially got a peek behind the curtain
i can try to explain in a bit
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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ok i took some time to refresh myself on prism's scumplay and read through some notes pts and i think i did generally have the right impression of how she likes to approach things
i still don't really think i have a case exactly but i will share my thought process at least
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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sigh nevermind i don't think i was right my bad
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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eh maybe there's something actually
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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i feel like whenever i post like this people hate me for it. sorry lmao. ill get to the point
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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the loyal viewers at home are NOT gonna like that this is how i ended up spending my time after their complaints about my gimli dive on season 1
but you know what viewers
we got invited on this show, not you. sit down
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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i miss jupiter :<
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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awwww didnt know you cared that much
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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yeah nevermind again sigh i don't think it's prism. or at least if it is, this isn't how she gets caught
the short version of what i was going to say is:
- prism is a very strategy and long-term planning heavy scum player, which is a style that i try to do less successfully, and so i am aware of some of the potential pitfalls of this style. especially when it comes to planning out read progressions on players well in advance
- it felt like there was some potential that she was dropping some crumbs of thought process that felt a little too intentionally placed, as if they were meant to be picked up again later -- and more importantly, they were
- the point that initially sparked my attention was in 571 where she townread catgirls but dropped a little line of "unless Ravens is scum, but we won't worry about that yet" and now hey she's scumreading Ravens and that has opened her up to be allowed to scumread catgirls. that in combination with her comment about cutting out every word that felt excessive just made me doubt that she really would have slipped that conditional in there unless she was already aware of how she was planning to progress her read on the slot
- the dragon read also felt like it followed a very neat trajectory while also having that trajectory fairly telegraphed early on, and i think in general the approach of "scumread player who can later become obvtown early on" is just a pattern that i have seen time and time again from strong scum players
but i think on closer analysis this doesn't really hold up as much as i thought it might. tracking through the read progressions there's several that dip and fluctuate in a way that doesn't feel like it's following a clear planned story arc, and instead seem more naturally based on new evaluations of the game. there are a couple of what feel like breadcrumbs of future thought progressions, but not enough to conclusively say it's a pattern, and they're plausible enough that they would show up as town despite my initial feeling about them
and although i got slightly excited about the possibility here, i think that it still holds for me that particularly in the second half of the game so far, she's felt more like what i expect her town approach to be
there is a part of me that still believes in the possibility that i caught a glimpse of something correct here but i think it's more productive to continue what i was originally doing before i got distracted and reread focusing on how people played around aureal
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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i think that regardless i would very much like to hear the more detailed explanation of prism's catgirls read
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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alright yeah i think gimli's town sorry gimli
the play around aureal doesn't fit at all with the model i was working with of what scum!gimli would want to be doing here
and also just reading d1 again with fresh eyes meh i think it is just kinda like town gimli
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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would like to hear from people who townread gimli slot but scumread catgirls if they have any thoughts about 1692
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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i think that page 27 is where things will start to get very interesting regarding aureal given klick's 649 and the scum nk on klick
a few people had kind of been dancing around the edge of a scumread on aureal (gimli continually has her just at the edge of his poe and not quite in voting range but i think that the casing of her felt convincing enough that it doesn't feel partnered to me)
i think seeing how they respond to a ramping up of a push on aureal will be really telling
however i am falling asleep so i will look at that tomorrow
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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the timing of kyoko dropping the hu tao case in 650 and specifically focusing on hu tao coming right after klick starts hard pushing aureal is certainly compelling but gut instinct is that it's more likely to be the people who jumped on top of it that are scum
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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In post 655, Silver Ravens wrote:
This is lazy thinking to go after the least active players only. Usually there are mafia in the players who are posting and going after only lurkers is the wrong move.In post 634, Catgirl Chipotle wrote: Game could just be Ydra + Aureal + Dan and wolf presence is non-existent. It would also explain a lot of things.
With that said, I will take a look at these slots.
Ydrasse I have in my mind that she as mafia likes to fit in socially, this results in her making posts that look "towny" on day 1, and she tends to not be suspected until the game progresses and there are less players to consider. In this game I am not really seeing that. 537 feels like a town post from her as it is combative, if only a little. The rest of their iso does not feel like Ydrasse as mafia according to the model I have in my mind.
Aureal made a post scrutinizing the setup in 296 and I believe this was at a time when there was quite a bit of confusion regarding the setup. If you are cynical you could say this is mechanical information vs looking at alignments. I think it leans towny to be figuring out the setup. They then follow it up with several posts where they appear to be trying to determine alignments. Also despite their post count they have posted quite a bit in each post. They have posted substantially more than Ydrasse and ActionDan, at the very least, so they shouldn't be grouped together as a lurker in my opinion (and again, that's not a great indicator of alignment, especially given how this day has gone done IMO.)
ActionDan I don't have any kind of meta read on. I've played with them before but I don't remember what they were like. In this game they have their one effort post in 200 where they go back and give commentary on the thread, they bring up some suspicion on Dragon, and then respond to questions about that for a bit. They say their read needs time to build. And then they haven't posted anything else, really. In this 100-posts phase They came in and unvoted, then voted for themself, and then unvoted again - over a span of six hours, but they have nothing to say apparently. Need more posts, I am not townreading here right now, but no strong reason to scumread either.
this set of posts is interesting together as a response to the thread state at the time and i think slightly unlikely to be both scum with aureal going for the lightly townread and pull her out of the low content slot poe approach? seems very possible that one of them is thoughIn post 657, Catgirl Chipotle wrote: With all this talk about Hu Tao I don't really care if people move votes there as long as it's between Aureal, Dan, and Hu but Dan and Hu seem like the right move.
lol @ Klicks post for a lot of reasons but I don't think me or my hydra partner want to address it this phase.
What you're doing is lazy thinking. Just because they're not as active doesn't mean they can't all have red role pms : ) Especially when none of the reasons they're being scumread is due to activity.In post 655, Silver Ravens wrote: This is lazy thinking to go after the least active players only. Usually there are mafia in the players who are posting and going after only lurkers is the wrong move.
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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i guess in 655 dunn kind of townleans most of the low content slots actually
and then they don't post at all for the rest of the day phase while not voting any main wagon
that is possibly less agenda'd than i thought it might be
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might rescind my gimli clear sorry again gimliIn post 656, Gimli wrote: klick, welcome to my locktowns.
I have re-read AD's only content post with attention now and agree he is probably a townie. There are a few good hints of it, once you get over his initial spiteful responses to everybody. first of all the ydrasse townread (also in #229), which I doubt is worded like that if he is scum. second of all the 'this seals prism towniness to me' comment, which I think is just a genuine townie-finds-another-townie moment where AD is excited about towny posting (after seeing so many scummy things he disliked by me, kiri and DE). His opinions on dreams are quite solid and I think they all come from a towny mindset, especially the part where he advises against global effect-looking dreams. we should've listened to AD! sheep people did look like global effects.
So I agree with you, klick. on AD. I really don't think its prism. Maybe it can be catgirl, maybe aureal, but I sure hope its hu tao regardless. and I think kyoko absolutely dunked on scum with her post there.
so we have a catgirl/aureal/hu tao/Von Payne POE, except you are townreading Von Payne. I want you to walk me through it or change your mind, otherwise black will endgame you all.
I think its hu tao and von payne and one of catgirl or aureal after considering your leans and reviewing what I feel should be reviewed. I don't think I can decide on catgirl or aureal being scum or town in this gameday.
this is all townies:
me
klick
kyoko
DE
sunflower
AD
ravens
prism
and if we're lucky, ydra.
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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the later push on aureal is still good though
i think that if he were going for the route of having aureal in his poe but pushing elsewhere, then he probably can stay fairly consistent with that instead of pushing hu tao as town in 661. it just comes across as uninformed to me on top of bussing being a relatively unlikely choice there
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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@drew if you're around sometime im interested in talking w you a bit about thisIn post 664, Von Payne wrote: Gim's, is the 'whole lotta nothing' scummy from me? Or are you tunneled so much on Black that you will just ignore me all together? I am trying to navigate this day phase when I basically can only post now when on my laptop(I hate switching off of my main when phone posting since my phone hates to remember passwords to this damn site lol)......and when I do post at this time I don't get the engagement I am looking for, which I basically am begging for lol.....which is how I normally get myself into a game and form reads.
All that being said, I agree with you on Hu, after thinking about her some more this feels much less like the town version of her.
I also want more out of Aureal, since she exposes herself as town the more she posts, but she seems to have made like no impression on me, I could go that direction as well.
I do agree with you on Klick as well, probably the first time in awhile I am town reading Klick this early......or even at all lol
And ftr, I do lean town on you Gim's.......there is this bit of 'town leader' vibe that you are putting out that I remember from a game a few moon's ago
So again, lonely late night Drew is here if you want to keep me company
-Drew
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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prism being busy and uninvolved during this is relatively unincriminating and neutral to me. i think if she's scum then she likely knew aureal wasn't going through so she didn't need to position around it which probably points towards possible partners of kyoko or catgirls, or gimli from the other direction. think it's fairly unlikely she would be paired with ravens/ydra/AD. von payne possible i guess
actiondan doesn't really weigh in at all and pushes gimli and our slot in 671. he mentions hu tao as possible scum in a noncommittal way and says he needs to revisit aureal. as talked about earlier, i think the case against us is questionable although possibly town, but the gimli analysis feels really busy-work-y. i think as another possible candidate for the lim here, as scum his main focus would be on trying to get enough content out there that he won't get limmed, and try to avoid tying himself too much to anyone else in case he goes down. this is pretty much what happened. as town i think there might be more incentive to actually put more effort into sorting between the leading vote candidates, knowing that people are trying to consolidate
ydra is leery of voting hu tao, doesn't weigh in on aureal 615, and pushes our slot instead. i think ydra is relatively towny otherwise but i also think this is basically exactly what scum!ydra would do in this position (i think it almost directly parallels an event in the MU game we played) which does make me a little hesitant
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oh hiIn post 1731, Von Payne wrote:
Of course, anything for our returning guestsIn post 1730, Sunflower wrote:
@drew if you're around sometime im interested in talking w you a bit about thisIn post 664, Von Payne wrote: Gim's, is the 'whole lotta nothing' scummy from me? Or are you tunneled so much on Black that you will just ignore me all together? I am trying to navigate this day phase when I basically can only post now when on my laptop(I hate switching off of my main when phone posting since my phone hates to remember passwords to this damn site lol)......and when I do post at this time I don't get the engagement I am looking for, which I basically am begging for lol.....which is how I normally get myself into a game and form reads.
All that being said, I agree with you on Hu, after thinking about her some more this feels much less like the town version of her.
I also want more out of Aureal, since she exposes herself as town the more she posts, but she seems to have made like no impression on me, I could go that direction as well.
I do agree with you on Klick as well, probably the first time in awhile I am town reading Klick this early......or even at all lol
And ftr, I do lean town on you Gim's.......there is this bit of 'town leader' vibe that you are putting out that I remember from a game a few moon's ago
So again, lonely late night Drew is here if you want to keep me company
-Drew
1) can you elaborate more on your thought process behind where you said you agree with gimli on hu tao? which part of what he said about hu tao did you agree with?
2) do you remember if you read 661 prior to this post, and if you had any thoughts on it?
3) was it you or black who did the triple hu tao vote in 677? i am like 80% sure it was black, but did she talk to you about her reasoning for doing that?
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i guess there's not any point in framing 2) in that way, i know you did read it since you referenced it
the question is more specifically, did his comment about thinking klick was right and hu tao is town make any impact on you? and if klick's own thoughts made an impact?
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i thought it was strange that you said you were agreeing with gimli on hu tao despite him coming around to hu tao being town right before but it does make a little more sense if you were just using his poe as a reference point to share your own read rather than specifically agreeing with a point he made
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i would like to hear from black what made her especially want hu tao limmed at that point then
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why is von payne town to youIn post 1740, Catgirl Chipotle wrote: Daily reminder that there are 2 Wolves on Hu Tao. If it wasn't Hu Tao, it was Aureal. Gimli/Enchant town. Von Payne town. I'm town. Kyoko just objectively makes the most sense to be a wolf in this game. Everything they're doing screams wolf. They're the elimination tomorrow btw.
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In post 1742, Catgirl Chipotle wrote: You are likely the last mafia memberi think if im following your perspective then silver ravens or actiondan would fit as well, if it's just a positional read. is there more to the read?
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why do you think anyone will listen to you without explanationIn post 1745, Catgirl Chipotle wrote: because I say so
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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i don't believe that you would clear them here
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do you think people are going to take for granted that you're town then?In post 1750, Catgirl Chipotle wrote: Because I have the best reads and this phase of the game is what I'm good at.
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i don't know what that means this fight sucks
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im not scum i just wanna talk to youIn post 1760, Catgirl Chipotle wrote: I don't have to exert energy or try super hard to win this game.
My reads are rock solid.
You can kill me but you won't because you and Kyoko need me as an elimination.
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that seems unproductive but okIn post 1763, Catgirl Chipotle wrote:
I don't wanna talk to you. I want your headIn post 1762, Sunflower wrote:
im not scum i just wanna talk to youIn post 1760, Catgirl Chipotle wrote: I don't have to exert energy or try super hard to win this game.
My reads are rock solid.
You can kill me but you won't because you and Kyoko need me as an elimination.
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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i don't know why "feel like" is enough for you for prism
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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like you are wrong or scum so
i don't believe your reads as town are infallible so i don't think you're guaranteed scum
i think acting 100% confident while also not actually locking in your reads and leaving room with "probably" and "feels like" actually seems more like stubborn town bc if you're scum then you don't have any reason to leave that vulnerability which can be pried open
but i think that if you are town then the only way people can actually find that is if you talk about those feels likes and probablys because i know you're wrong on us which means you're wrongly clearing someone else
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i just read that part of the game very thoroughly and i agree that the timing of it looks quite bad but i think your slots play right afterwards looks more like what a wolf would do taking advantage of a town tunnel than kyoko being scum herselfIn post 1774, Catgirl Chipotle wrote: I want to remind you that Frozen Angel, aka, Kyoko, only tryhards and pulls out all of the stops when her team, or herself, is in danger.
What do you think that Hu Tao case was?
If she didn't do something, well you have a cw on Sunflower, you have people willing to go to Aureal whenever they want. There could have realistically been a wolf elimination during that day.
but as far as overall play i think ive seen more things from you that i townread
so i want to resolve this
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your solve is wrongIn post 1779, Catgirl Chipotle wrote:
I have the game solved lolIn post 1777, Sunflower wrote: like you are wrong or scum so
i don't believe your reads as town are infallible so i don't think you're guaranteed scum
i think acting 100% confident while also not actually locking in your reads and leaving room with "probably" and "feels like" actually seems more like stubborn town bc if you're scum then you don't have any reason to leave that vulnerability which can be pried open
but i think that if you are town then the only way people can actually find that is if you talk about those feels likes and probablys because i know you're wrong on us which means you're wrongly clearing someone else
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what do you think my goal would be behind having this conversation with you if i were wolf
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i have met you before, obviously it would not do that
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alright thanks for the talk it was helpful
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kyoko is frozen angel yes
second half of page 26 into page 27 is recommended reading
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i would say that up until recently it's been both
initially it was role related and also just the way she was being playful about it felt very town!ydra to me
and since then it also has felt to me like she has been unagenda'd and just not doing things that would accomplish scum goals. i thought her brief foray into pushing our slot along with the re-evaluation and backing off made sense
although in my reread as i mentioned in 1732 i did have some doubts because her play pattern around hu tao did remind me of how i think she can sometimes like to play as scum. and there is the possibility that she's playing to slip through the cracks but i don't think i really believe that it's more likely, just possible. i am just a little nervous because i did misread her in the game i referenced and her play is not dissimilar (i haven't actually fact checked this i do not want to look at that game rn)
so i would say at this point the read is leaning more heavily on the role side of things and im more hesitant about play than i used to be although still generally feeling that it's more towny than not
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i think most people probably have the same idea but i also don't really see how that would be helpful in any way to do here
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i don't think your impression is exactly correct although i think it's often been true latelyIn post 1798, Catgirl Chipotle wrote: My impression of wolf!Ydra from Swinger's ball is that she doesn't like playing wolf, and that we both awaited for our deaths patiently.
I've never seen her play wolf, so I think she TMI'd her way through the day phase because she wasn't pressured to do anything. It would also be very similar to what she would probably think as town as well (not that I would know! My most notable town!Ydra impression was from the undertale game where eventually I think she just made herself obviously town, at least, I don't remember fos'ing her by the end of the game).
A wolf pretending to be something they're not, and getting away with it is cheesy and it's not something I would want to lose to. I have objectively no reason to TR this slot if we're basing this on play.
she has at times very much enjoyed playing wolf and i think probably on average from what ive seen enjoys it more than playing town? she's been kinda down on playing town sometimes lately too
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i think unrelated to alignment, so probably notIn post 1797, Von Payne wrote:In post 1795, Catgirl Chipotle wrote: Inaction is action and can accomplish wolf goals.
The best wolves will only respond to situations when the ball is in their court.
Speculate on their role openly please. If they're shot within these last 2 hours, that is good for village.
Allow me to be Drew here for a momentIn post 1796, Sunflower wrote: i think most people probably have the same idea but i also don't really see how that would be helpful in any way to do here
But do you think there is anything to them adamantly not wanting to be a part of this hood?
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i think there's a lot of things we can talk about without role speculation and i appreciate hearing the thoughts you've givenIn post 1800, Catgirl Chipotle wrote:
it is the only way this conversation progressesIn post 1796, Sunflower wrote: i think most people probably have the same idea but i also don't really see how that would be helpful in any way to do here
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that's where im leaning rnIn post 1804, Catgirl Chipotle wrote: if you're town, and you have some strong compelling reason not to kill Ydra and Ydra does just end up being town, because that would be just what makes sense, then you can kill ravens and dan after killing Kyoko and ya you would probably just win.
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wasn't gonna comment on it but since night is almost over i will say this phrasing choice has been kinda bugging me and i will feel silly later if i don't at least say somethingIn post 1735, Von Payne wrote: Top of my head I don't remember if she gave reasoning per se, but I didn't disagree with it(we haven't talked a whole bunch of strategy, but I will check the chat to see if she talked about this vote brb)
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strategy is just an odd way of putting it
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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@drew, i think there are things that you could call strategy but since that was specifically about a relatively emotion/read driven point where black was just emphasizing that she really wanted hu tao limmed, i don't feel like the label applies in that context
i think it's not really a big point for me, it just was stuck on my brain
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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hey, it's jupiter here!!!! sorry for not being in thread for a while- got burnt out and stuff i've been doing irl has honestly just been slaughtering me like i've been drawn and quartered or something. will have more time now that it's spring break, might reread at some point. need to get my head screwed back on because tbh I haven't been paying attention to thread for like over a week
also someone said that allegedly fire wasnt talking to me idk who that person was but you're wrong we talk every day and i cherish the conversations we have!-
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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the last thing i remember is arguing with silver ravens tbh when was that-
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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ITS BEEN FIVE DAYS?? WHAT-
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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btw this feels like a reference to slay the princess but it's probably notIn post 1810, morph the cat wrote: A bold knight in shining armor came to fight me. Rescue me. Something like that.-
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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That is a really, really, REALLY big waterfall. I bet I could meditate under it!, said maya fey, 2001-
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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ok so according to fire moonrise ends soon but i think waterfall is townsided-
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Sunflower Mafia Scum
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