Open 731: Twin Trap (Game Over)
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Wh4t
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Wh4t Goon
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In post 85, Fromage wrote:A lot of Eragon's posts contain only fluff. (35, 60, 62) I don't like it. VOTE: Eragon
FOS: Inferno. I don't like how much time he spends defending himself and how little scumhunting he does.
The backtracking here gives me scummy vibes. The initial read was pretty bad nitpicking, it felt like he decided to scum read someone lynchbaity before he looked for posts to back the read (if you actually look at the posts he's pointing out as "fluff"). 85 is opportunistic imo.In post 115, Fromage wrote:
Careful. I didn't say Eragon's fluff outweighs his content. I said I don't like his fluff. I'm not even sure if I scumread him.In post 101, Egg wrote:Fromage, why does eragons fluff outweigh his content?-
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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I feel the same way about A50's case on me. BuJaber seems sufficiently paranoid to be likely town.In post 77, BuJaber wrote:I think A50 makes good points but it is the sort of policy case that can easily be pushed by scum.
I'm interested in following your read on him later as he's a decent scumspect, although I find it tricky to read him this game as this wouldn't be the first time A50 has tunneled someone over semantics as town.In post 86, BuJaber wrote:
Unclear yet. I can't determine his intentions based on just this because like I said it is NAI. When he posts more and we get an idea what his motivation is we'll know if it's genuine or not.In post 79, Eragon wrote:So are you calling A50 mechanical? And is that the towny, scummy, or neither?? Just asking to see your pinion on A50
I feel like the openess to a read on Eragon is pretty townie from BuJaber here, disagree that fluff posting is a scum crime though. I also like how he probes others for their opinion in what looks like a way to get a read on the questionee.In post 89, BuJaber wrote:
Agree on most posts but 54 feels kind townie. What are your thoughts on it?In post 85, Fromage wrote:A lot of Eragon's posts contain only fluff. (35, 60, 62) I don't like it. VOTE: Eragon
FOS: Inferno. I don't like how much time he spends defending himself and how little scumhunting he does.-
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Wh4t Goon
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Yuck Manatee looks like scum from the embedded quote alone. I'm liking egg for town even if he's wrong about my slot.In post 39, Egg wrote:
Do you not have any scum reads yet? If not, why no vote on Inferno?In post 38, ManateeDude wrote:
I was reffering to you making guesses on roles. Thats almost always proscum behavior, I'm not gonna push you for it tho.In post 33, Inferno390 wrote:Because I find it’s a good way to get out of RVS. Helps me judge interactions and gather info. It hasn’t failed me yet, and I doubt it will start now.
Egg is scum now btw.
VOTE: Egg-
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Wh4t Goon
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In post 54, Eragon wrote:>votes
>says "p.sure this is villa"
If you think someone is villa then why pressure them?
I think this is insightful enough to lump you in the townreads. It's a push on Manatee too so they are not w/w.-
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Wh4t Goon
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After quickly skimming ISOs my reads are:
{BuJaber, Egg, Eragon, GameNBurger, Poseidon}
{A50}
{Manatee, Fromage}
GNB's long posts made me lazy so I haven't given transparency on that read or on poseidon, however I will do so on request at a later time if it helps you all to read me.
Would the majority still like me to claim?-
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Wh4t Goon
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That's fine, A50 can be very convincing and I'm not saying the reasons are complete rubbish however I cannot undo what my predecessor has done or speak on his behalf. I will say that before I replace into a game, that I skim the relevant ISO before replacing in as I'm a terrible scum player. Inferno's frustration and stubbornness read town to me and I was right so XDIn post 280, Poseidon wrote:That said, I'm still very sus of your slot @Wh4t due to Inferno's behavior.
Pedit: Yes that's the correct order. I will hold off on claiming unless necessary as it would be anti-town to claim early imo.-
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Wh4t Goon
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I'll move my vote to VOTE: Fromage but I'd happily move to Manatee once Toranaga confirms he's scum.In post 270, LastManStanding wrote:-
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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Don't you mean "we?"In post 290, Toranaga wrote:you get 2 PRs and possible guilties on mafia.
I believe you just scum slipped.
VOTE: Toranaga L-1.-
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Wh4t Goon
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A single post doesn't determine alignment. You'll notice he was pushed off his initial victim (Eragon) when his reasons were challenged, so sure he would try better with the next reasoning. A50 weakened my slot's position so the move onto me wasn't any less opportunistic than scumreading someone for fluff posting.In post 295, Toranaga wrote:in the context where you're actually inferno, that feels pretty bad
you have to realise that's town motivated posting, yes?
What do you think of poseidons thoughts about him?-
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Wh4t Goon
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I'm referring to Poseidon's 280In post 299, Toranaga wrote:I didn't read anyone else's thoughts on that dude
didn't you replace into this yesterday? why are you posting so very little here?
I was waiting for the mod to confirm my slot. I don't think it's fair to say I'm posting very little since then lol. If we turn that around, your lack of activity is also suspicious, combine that with you beetlejuicing just now, and we get Toranaga scumcake. I know you're a motivated and active town player in contrast to being a demotivated and lurky scumplayer.
As an aside I'd like some reads from you when you get the chance.-
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Wh4t Goon
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Where am I pushing Eragon? It's strange that you don't ask for more thoughts on my scumread like Poseidon did, but just jump to the conclusion I'm scum from what I disclosed as a skimming read.In post 302, Toranaga wrote:but I'm not townreading wh4t. for all the reasons someone could probably come up with for scumreading me, "catching" me in a "scumslip" feels disingenuous alongside the way she is pushing eragon.
Pedit beetlejuicing is when you appear when you're being talked about.-
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Wh4t Goon
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Toranaga you are assessing my playstyle from the viewpoint of my other personality. It wouldn't seem like town me.
I don't believe my reads are bad or that I'm scummy. I think you're making your cake and eating it too by saying my slot is town but I'm scummy. Saying I'm scummy prolongs the existing paranoia around my slot and it's easier to say I'm scummy instead of looking for opportunities to see where I'm not.
I'll see if I can explain my fromage read better.-
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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The timing of this is strange, I already told you I would do this here:In post 323, Poseidon wrote:OPPORTUNISTIC VOTE Simple phrasing and over-analyzing from your end just makes it seem like you're going for the easy target to get eyes off of you, or even Fromage
In post 284, Wh4t wrote:I'll move my vote to VOTE: Fromage but I'd happily move to Manatee once Toranaga confirms he's scum.
So, why is it opportunistic after I change my read of you, rather than when I enter agreeing with the general Manatee scumread?
Not sure how anything I'm doing is taking attention away ftom myself, or why it would make sense to attempt to take attention away from myself when I'm not under any pressure?
The lingering votes on myself from you and Tor give me bad vibes. I don't understand how Tor can say he town reads my slot because of Inferno's replace out and yet keep his vote on me. I don't really understand why Poseidon scumread Inferno?-
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Wh4t Goon
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I wasn't aware that catching up on the game and being transparent with my reads is considered playing badly. Have you read some of the posts from Manatee? Can you not see how others might consider your slot scummy?In post 327, Toranaga wrote:if you're town, re-read your gameday with the idea that I might be town and you'll see how bad you're playing.
What are your thoughts on A50?-
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Wh4t Goon
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If you're not calling my read on Manatee bad then what is bad about my play?In post 329, Toranaga wrote:I didn't read manatee. I'm sure it's a pretty awful ISO.-
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Why are so scummy A50?In post 351, Almost50 wrote:Take your time. I'll wait to see what you have to offer.-
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Wh4t Goon
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I mean in general. Can you please give some thoughts on Poseidon and Fromage?In post 353, Almost50 wrote:
What exactly us scummy about this?In post 352, Wh4t wrote:
Why are so scummy A50?In post 351, Almost50 wrote:Take your time. I'll wait to see what you have to offer.-
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Wh4t Goon
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A50 can you help me see what changed your read on manatee between these posts?In post 107, Almost50 wrote:I stopped paying attention to Inferno's posts already. I would appreciate it if he put Manatee @L-1 though and would state intent myself.-
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Wh4t Goon
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Well done dodging the questions and taking a chance to throw the shade back at me. I'm pretty happy with my read on you.In post 356, Poseidon wrote:What's with the aggro hunting, Wh@t? And are you seriously surprised I'm skeptical of your spot after all the Inferno antics?-
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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Tor was a good man, even if he rolled scum. He impacts people everywhere he goes and will be sorely missed. RIP.In post 374, Almost50 wrote:OK. I'll hammer in 5-6 hours. I think that is fair enough for the rest to come online and say a few words if so they wish or intend to.
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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Yes.In post 382, GameNBurger wrote:To reiterate actually for visibility:
WH4T: do you still stand by your claim of Tor scumslipping?-
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Wh4t Goon
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This is gross. If the Tor lynch is going to happen and you're surprised he hasn't been hammered and you scum read him, the only reason you would be vanity voting elsewhere is that you're scum and not wanting to be on a villa wagon or voting your buddy.In post 386, GameNBurger wrote:I really am gonna stick to my gut right now on this, i have a feeling the Tor lynch is gonna happen
I’m surprised the hammer hasn’t dropped yet actually-
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Wh4t Goon
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I believe I have 3 votes which would be L-2. Did I miss a vote?In post 393, Toranaga wrote:
vanity voting? you're L-1 too my dearIn post 392, Wh4t wrote:
This is gross. If the Tor lynch is going to happen and you're surprised he hasn't been hammered and you scum read him, the only reason you would be vanity voting elsewhere is that you're scum and not wanting to be on a villa wagon or voting your buddy.In post 386, GameNBurger wrote:I really am gonna stick to my gut right now on this, i have a feeling the Tor lynch is gonna happen
I’m surprised the hammer hasn’t dropped yet actually-
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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Can I add: not gamesolving, not assertive, not having fun, stalling.In post 400, Toranaga wrote:are you scumreading me for any reason outside of manatee and using "you" as a figure of speech?-
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Wh4t Goon
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I am town. And I can't take your concern for my slot seriously with your vote on me. I will have no sympathy if you're town because you basically gave up.In post 406, Toranaga wrote:take this as a learning experience for when I flip. if you're town, and I hope to god you're not, you've lined yourself up to be mislynched by aggressively wrong tunneling me, and let the gameday be an easy coast as wolves just watch town eat themselves up.
UNVOTE:-
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Wh4t Goon
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His anger at me is the most genuine thing I've felt from him this game. I need to reprocess this game.In post 412, Almost50 wrote:P-edit: WTF??? How can you "have no sympathy if he's town because he basically gave up." and unvote him at the same time?-
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Yeah. I don't know. I feel bad.In post 421, Almost50 wrote:
Have you considered the possibility he might be angry for getting lynched through no fault of his own? I mean, BuJaber explicitly said the vote was bc of Manatee, you were voting him for no good reason (from his own perspective) and so am I.In post 413, Wh4t wrote:His anger at me is the most genuine thing I've felt from him this game. I need to reprocess this game.-
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:'(In post 425, Wh4t wrote:
Yeah. I don't know. I feel bad.In post 421, Almost50 wrote:
Have you considered the possibility he might be angry for getting lynched through no fault of his own? I mean, BuJaber explicitly said the vote was bc of Manatee, you were voting him for no good reason (from his own perspective) and so am I.In post 413, Wh4t wrote:His anger at me is the most genuine thing I've felt from him this game. I need to reprocess this game.-
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Wh4t
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Wh4t Goon
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No, I'm hungover and disappointed that I misread your slot.In post 452, Toranaga wrote:
are you upset with me or something? you've become very nonchalant all of a suddenIn post 451, Wh4t wrote:Yeah.
Why do you townread GNB he seems slimy?-
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Wh4t Goon
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I just get a weird feeling that he's manipulating people and knows people's alignments. Ill look into him properly later. You know it's easier for me to read people who push me. I thought he was town until he said he was surprised you weren't hammered yet, and his failed attempt to hammer you.In post 454, Toranaga wrote:
I was initially townreading him for engaging in metadiving and trying to come up with full wolfteam combinations as hard as he was as early as he wasIn post 453, Wh4t wrote:
No, I'm hungover and disappointed that I misread your slot.In post 452, Toranaga wrote:
are you upset with me or something? you've become very nonchalant all of a suddenIn post 451, Wh4t wrote:Yeah.
Why do you townread GNB he seems slimy?
I liked how he evaluated my slot and his push/interactions with you. him coming back to the "scumslip" post and get you to respond if you still stood by it before voting you reads as a real evaluation. maybe you can't see it from where you stand because it's pushing you on things you believe in, but it resonates strongly and makes a lot of sense to me.
why is he being slimy IYO apart from pushing you?-
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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Dislike Fromage attacking people's townreads and not really giving reads of his own. I feel like scum are more likely to shutdown townreads early in this manner with little follow up. Questionning reads and not coming to any conclusions is a good way to avoid backing yourself into a corner as scum, and it also gives the appearance of scum hunting.In post 84, Fromage wrote:
Why don't you tell us why you think BuJaber is town? Is it because he doesn't want to get townread for asking about the setup?In post 83, Egg wrote:I think BuJaber is town, but it's not because he reminded the Mod something was missing in the OP.
In post 87, Fromage wrote:
Could you please elaborate a bit why you think eragon is towny?In post 80, ManateeDude wrote:Thinking eragons towny and inferno is weirdy
I'm concerned that this eagerness to hammer early into D1 is coming from scum A50. I don't believe a townie would call intent to hammer someone without a superstrong case beforehand, which again is impossible this early. Another problem with this post is that he says it's strategic to make scum claim PR, but that doesn't outweigh the loss of an actual VT. He's also shooting himself in the foot by telling everyone his plan to trap a fale claim instead of just doing something covert and clever, which he's more than capable of.In post 112, Almost50 wrote:
Well, because I firmly believe in lynching a VT claim on D1. This will force the Scum to claim a PR (the PR they're immune to) as a last resort before they eat rope. I am already on Inferno though, so can't do that to him, but if Manatee is @L-1 and claims VT I'm going to hammer him.In post 111, GameNBurger wrote:
Question: why not vote manatee yourself?In post 107, Almost50 wrote:I stopped paying attention to Inferno's posts already. I would appreciate it if he put Manatee @L-1 though and would state intent myself.-
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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I've talked a lot about A50. Please read my ISO.
I started off suspicious, put him as null/scumish. Asked him why he was scummy and town read him for his push back onto me. I then said I was concerned about A50 being scum because of his lynch happy posts.-
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What even is this?In post 482, Almost50 wrote:P-edit: Oh, well. Tor caught me red handed. What can I do? *Shrug*-
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Wh4t Goon
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Lol. Dude I just remembered you saying that and it made me wonder if you knew who I was.In post 498, Almost50 wrote:
Is your connection THAT slow or are you amnesiac and have just remembered it?In post 495, Wh4t wrote:A50 what does Duck have to do with me reading you correctly?
I have no idea what Duck had to do with anything do I was hoping you could point me in the right direction. If it helps me get a read on you, by being a relevant reference to a past ge we've played then cool.In post 499, Almost50 wrote:
In fact, what does this question have to do with your read on me? How will my answer help you get an accurate read on me?In post 495, Wh4t wrote:A50 what does Duck have to do with me reading you correctly?-
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Wh4t
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Wh4t
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It is safer to find people scummy when I respect their play. It doesn't mean I'm not trying to sort you, which makes it difficult when you're avoiding interactions with me. I would've appreciated a reasonable response to you calling for a lynch on a claimed VT so early.In post 510, Almost50 wrote:
In that case, I do. I even said something like "isn't it always the case that you find me scummy?" because you do.In post 504, Wh4t wrote:Lol. Dude I just remembered you saying that and it made me wonder if you knew who I was.
Although your "lynch the VT" plan seems clever, you're assuming that scum are rational enough to see the optimal play here. Another problem is that now scum are aware of the plan it would actually be safer to claim VT than PR and hope they can blend in and avoid being lynched.-
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Wh4t Goon
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Yay. Jump on.In post 514, Toranaga wrote:I just ISO'd poseidon and have no idea what possessed me to townread it-
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Wh4t Goon
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Wh4t Goon
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Poseidon could you please give brief reasons for your reads? I don't see anything about your townreads in your ISO. I also don't understand how you call a vote from Tor opportunistic but then leave him in your nullreads?In post 534, Poseidon wrote:I got nothing here. You all are clearly missing your target and it's not like I have any ground of evidence since this is behavioral based and we're still in D1. Just because Wh4t is good at passing off as a townread doesn't excuse Inferno's actions prior. It's still the same slot.
Could you please explain why you personally scumread Inferno? I get a strong feeling from your reaslist and lack of reasoning that you're following the opinions of the crowd.-
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Wh4t Goon
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It also makes no sense that you would scumread Fromage off the back of my read on him, when you scumread me.
A townie would not listen to reasoning from a scumread imo, and you seem very convinced the Inferno slot is scum just for flip-flopping in RVS which isn't even really scummy but actually generates game content.-
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Wh4t Goon
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Well you technically have no meta which sucks.
You voted him before that point. Why would someone flail from either alignment perspective in that spot do you think?In post 537, Poseidon wrote:Inferno was mad flailing and refusing to reveal role when under an L-1 pressure and asked by multiple players. And we were past RVS.-
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I don't understand how any of that is actually scummy though? Changing votes is NAI and can even be interpreted as townie when you consider that scum are much more self-conscious and by extension, more likely to be more careful with their votes.
Refusing to claim is also more likely to be a townie act early D1 because it deprives scum of information, making it more likely they will not run up other people in a PR hunt. The stubbornness inferno showed is also extremely towny, he's not bending to please the majority and sticks his neck out in a way scum might be hesitant to.
To assume any of these actions are scummy seems short sighted and superficial. This could be because you're returning after a long break or because you're scum looking for the easy target. But you need to look at the intent not the surface layer actions.
I don't feel any real frustration from you either which is a red flag for me when someone is L-1. It just feels like you're hoping to reason your way out of it and like you're just pleading. I think you're much better at coveying emotion than what you're showing this game.-
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