Open 736: Diffusion of Power - Game Over

[Music and Mail]

Hi I am the more musically inclined head of the hydra.

I haven't actually read the game and won't do so before tomorrow morning but nice to see you all and so on and so forth.

[Music and Mail]

aww no RC get out of my game

Serious request?

[Music and Mail]

For the record the circumstances of my pred's replace out made me think the slot was scum, I was pleasantly surprised to be town.

I'm going to start reading now.

[Music and Mail]

Lovebird or Music and Mail are the lynches

You're not lynching me in a game with this many cops.
I think the logical thing to do is say that if I'm alive to D4, any D4 cops target me. If none of them claim with an inno on D5, all D5 cops target me

This is pretty scummy.

How is that scummy?

[Music and Mail]

Okay Creature do you want to 1v1 me then?

[Music and Mail]

VOTE: Creature

[Music and Mail]

I had a phone call last night and D&D today and I have no issues producing content as scum.
If anything the fact that I didn't immediately try to make a splash on replace in to spew myself town in a game where I have to hard spew myself town to avoid being copped by 4-6 people who could be cop makes me town.

[Music and Mail]

I'm not Toranaga.

[Music and Mail]

I dunno generally when someone replaces out of one game after lurksacking it but sticks around site I think that the slot is +equity scum.

[Music and Mail]

People aren't going to lay the fuck off of my slot if we don't set up a system like that and I'd prefer we not end up with something stupid like 3 people copping me the same night that I die.

[Music and Mail]

I feel very bad for one specific player in this game

[Music and Mail]

btw I think that trying to catch scum on numbers of cops/doctors isn't helpful early
I think that cops with results should claim, everyone else should not claim.

[Music and Mail]

i'm gonna claim a guilty on someone in about 48 hours, until then everyone can do their thing

[Music and Mail]

This is from the 2018 Team Mafia White Flag game
As you can see, Postie essentially followed RC’s guidance that game (starting d2 but that’s beside the point). This has become a meme and I think maybe given this hydra existing it may have been a meme beforehand.

I should point out that this viewpoint of Postie's play in said game is a horrible misrepresentation.
My advice to her was to policy lynch Ranmaru and TSQ because at least one of them would be scum and it would be hard to lynch scum with them alive.
People thought that she was being dictated by me because her playstyle is similar to mine because we played so much together in the past, not because stuff came from me.

[Music and Mail]

Actually the Srceenplay intervention came from me as well. And the initial Eddiefenix scumread. I did support the Eddiefenix push in general but it wasn't who I would have ever lynched either day.

[Music and Mail]

2 replace outs already? What's with players signing up for games they don't intend to play nowadays?

Are you playing?

I am today.

hi today, I'm dad.

[Music and Mail]

It's Gorman (Music / RadiantCowbells) and Postman (Mail / Postie).
Postie is mostly going to be posting indirectly through passing reads on to me (and yall are gonna scumread the fuck out of that so I think it's near-mandatory that we set up cops on me).

[Music and Mail]

{Creature, skitter}
{Gamma, Bu}
{PP, NM, Carcasilly} -- Null --
{spagoot}
{Imp}

Postie's reads to date

Mine are like

{M&M}
{Creature, Bujaber}
{Gamma Emerald}
{Carcalilly, Spooghetioso, NM}
{Penguinpower} Null
{Lovebird, Creativemod1, Almost50}
{Skitter30, Implosion}

[Music and Mail]

People aren't going to lay the fuck off of my slot if we don't set up a system like that and I'd prefer we not end up with something stupid like 3 people copping me the same night that I die.

Chances of there being 3 Cops acting at the same night are minimal. That said, I suggest any N1 Cop does it and get it done with. Hell, if it didn't sound scummy I would have asked that if there is a N1 Cop that they claim now so I can protect them and we know the alignment of your slot at the start of D2 (if there are more than one N1 Cop only ONE should claim though, as I can't protect you both).

You're claiming N1 doc?

[Music and Mail]

If we're copping me D1 we're also setting docs on me or we're just not doing it.

[Music and Mail]

I have individual scumreads on both Skitter and Implosion and I also have vibes that they're +likely to be scum together so I'm feeling pretty good about that pairing.
Gonna discuss with Postie about skitter since she's TRing her.

[Music and Mail]

actually?

[Music and Mail]

idk the big thing for me is that you stopped posting and discarded your Buja scumread the moment that you replaced in.
Felt like you were scared of me. I haven't seen anything to actually be worth claiming a guilty on you over.

[Music and Mail]

because she's done nothing that I like and a lot that I don't like.

[Music and Mail]

I HAVE TO PRESS ENTER LIKE 5 TIMES JESUS

Guys Unvote implosion yallre redicilus

this feels partner-y between carca and implosion

this is just one example but incredibly lazy and unthoughtful reads

i think this is kinda townie for how self-righteous/outraged he is and like how ... proud (is that the right word?) at having caught pp in what he believes to be a lie

it isn't a lie imo; i think the two of you are remembering the same event differently in some way and/or read the same sentence differently (pp says he never saw nm post this much; gamma says he did in that game but pp says it wasn't in the beginning of the game so the scenario is different; you're defining what 'active' means differently)

going to just let this stand and not explain my feelings on it

@bujaber: so implosion is townreading gamma; i don't think he's setting him up to being mislynched; you saying that kinda reads like you're trying to cast doubt on general pool of people scumreading gamma

what's bothering me about your carca vote is that you called it ballsy for scum to do and then voted her anyways; it also feels kinda incongruous to me

==

implosion i'm tending towards town on you although i'm a little hesitant to flat out townread you at this time

instead of just reading your posts and going 'oh yeah this makes sense' it's more like you're coming to the same conclusions as me at like the same time; you picked up on what was bothering me about bujaber and also for how you read gamma/quote]

feel like she should have used stronger wording wrt bujaber
feel like her reluctancy to townread you is more likely from scum her than town her. your alignment not relevant here.

i read this like four times and i don't follow. implosion is scum for pushing town!gamma but what gamma did is nai (and thus gamma might be scum) so implosion isn't scummy for that anymore but if gamma is scum then implosion is too?

so you thus have a nullread on implosion even though he's scummy irregardless of gamma's alignment?

and what do i have to do with this and how am i scummier? and how did a50 become town here?

More trying to discredit than make any meaningful comment about it

uh no?

why should i trust carca's read more than gamma's/mine/creature's?

that wasn't the point here and I think town skitter would have seen it.

[Music and Mail]

i'm trying to figure out if there's a good way to get hypo-innos out there but haven't come to anything conclusive

i think that a cop giving a hypo-inno each day will be kinda confusing when they flip given that they may have given several hypo-innos at that point but only one (at most) is true

i'm kinda thinking that a cop with a guilty should out it tho given that everyone is one-shot

Cops claim after the fact, meaning the N1 Cop (if any) will out at the start of D2 and give us their result.

Everyone else remains fair game for scum. They may shoot a N5 Cop (and the game could end on D4) or may shoot a Doctor (regardless of what night they act that's not what scum need).

Now, you've seen me get NK'd as a claimed VT. Now it's time for you to witness me getting NK'd as a claimed N1 Doctor.

This is a lot easier to miss than you seem to think it is and it really wasn't discussed by others.

But, perfect!

I also claim N1 doctor.

Can a N1 cop claim and then I'll doc the cop, A50 will doc me?

[Music and Mail]

I messed up the formatting of my post on Skitter, read it carefully for what is mine.

@bujaber: so implosion is townreading gamma; i don't think he's setting him up to being mislynched; you saying that kinda reads like you're trying to cast doubt on general pool of people scumreading gamma

what's bothering me about your carca vote is that you called it ballsy for scum to do and then voted her anyways; it also feels kinda incongruous to me

==

implosion i'm tending towards town on you although i'm a little hesitant to flat out townread you at this time

instead of just reading your posts and going 'oh yeah this makes sense' it's more like you're coming to the same conclusions as me at like the same time; you picked up on what was bothering me about bujaber and also for how you read gamma

feel like she should have used stronger wording wrt bujaber
feel like her reluctancy to townread you is more likely from scum her than town her. your alignment not relevant here.

i read this like four times and i don't follow. implosion is scum for pushing town!gamma but what gamma did is nai (and thus gamma might be scum) so implosion isn't scummy for that anymore but if gamma is scum then implosion is too?

so you thus have a nullread on implosion even though he's scummy irregardless of gamma's alignment?

and what do i have to do with this and how am i scummier? and how did a50 become town here?

More trying to discredit than make any meaningful comment about it

uh no?

why should i trust carca's read more than gamma's/mine/creature's?

that wasn't the point here and I think town skitter would have seen it.
also an extremely towny thought process for Bujaber

[Music and Mail]

If we're copping me D1 we're also setting docs on me or we're just not doing it.

You are not going to act as a functional lightning rod, no fucking way

OK, then don't scumread me for stupid reasons.

[Music and Mail]

eh i guess it was more of a sustained chuckle.

VOTE: Skitter30

Sweet dreams young prince(ess).

[Music and Mail]

That quote was accidental

but yea me and Postie both agree my read there is far more reliable and I'm like, really certain of that read and really accurate in general when I'm really certain of skitter reads, so.

[Music and Mail]

ye my point is that if they're making up being a n1 doc and/or choose to target someone else and the cop thus dies i will find that incredibly suspicious

I agree, but you should be more suspicious of the claimed Doctor whose protection target died, given that there's no Roleblocker & no Strongman.

dw about it she's just a scumbutt of known scumbuttness.

[Music and Mail]

I mean you have to say that.

Sorry, as a matter of principle I don't like replacing into games where people I can read super well are scum but me and Postie wanted to join a game and this was the only good option.

I hadn't read any of it when we replaced in.

[Music and Mail]

[Music and Mail]

a50 you understand that my Skitter reads are serious fucking business right?

[Music and Mail]

Oh and so we're clear

If we die tonight A50 dies regardless of what he claims to have done.

[Music and Mail]

The Skitter-A50 interactions are vibing to me as SvS as well, and I specifically think that A50 discussed going for the nightkill on me anyway and claim that he wifomed based on Skitter's reaction.

[Music and Mail]

Like her calling A50 out on missing the doc as opposed to me feels like a massive TMI read.
Please also note that as the standings are I have

never misread Skitter30

.
Furthermore, I have

never failed to have her read correctly by the end of D1

even.

So if you think that me being town is even in consideration, you're implicitly saying that you agree that Skitter30 is scum.

[Music and Mail]

scum topic, clearly?
I just remembered that this game has no daychat for scum but that doesn't change my concern that her questioning him and not me is a TMI read.

[Music and Mail]

We were trying to organize a definite cop on me but you tried to vote me instead

this game doesn't have daytalk; this is a dumb thing to push

i don't trust you right now; why would i question you instead of him?

Why call out the doc that you think is town as opposed to the doc you think is scum?

[Music and Mail]

Okay, you're right in this instance.

You're still scum though.

[Music and Mail]

I mean there is little to respond to because I don't actually have a lot to say about the accuracy of anything you've stated because my read on you isn't based on the accuracy of things you state.

Also, you're perfectly capable of responding in real time as scum, you don't like magically need 2 hours to respond to things, you're selling yourself much shorter than you can get away with after PYP

[Music and Mail]

a50 you understand that my Skitter reads are serious fucking business right?

I do. I also know for a fact you don't know skitter's play as much as I do.

I have an 100% record reading her. I have an 100% record having those 100% correct reads before D1 ends.
You can claim to have read more of her games if you want but I'm the one who brings the #s here.

[Music and Mail]

enough?

[Music and Mail]

And like Skitter's reaction being to call me scum and say my read was definitely faked instead of wait and see where my read developed from there is pretty much a scumclaim ime.

[Music and Mail]

Your new style is unhelpful for my ability to read you and this omgus is pretty awful like regardless of whether you're town or scum.
I'm gonna UNVOTE: because I still think I could be wrong and you're doing your utmost to make it impossible to sort you but I'm probably speedlynching you as soon as I'm conftown.

VOTE: Implosion

[Music and Mail]

A lot of how I've sorted you in the past is your reaction to pressure and your reaction to pressure in this game is at best very unhelpful to me and at worst scum.
I don't care if you think it's a bad vote and you shouldn't expect me to care if you think that's a bad vote.

[Music and Mail]

Like I truly feel like I should be able to expect you to know better than to react to me scumreading you than by calling me scum. I truly feel like you should know better than to try to read me off of your own read on me and not cops in a setup like this. I feel like you should know better than to try to set up future lynches on me based on things that aren't cops, and I feel like if you're town you've really learned nothing from any game we've played together.

But do I think that's impossible? no. I think it's possible that you're just legitimately playing this terribly and not at all self aware about it.

so I'm going to leave you alone until I'm confirmed town and then we can talk and we'll see if you sing a different tune or if you're just scum.

[Music and Mail]

if I die and haven't retracted my scumread on skitter (for example A50 scumclaiming by letting me die) quicklynch her.

Implosion's probably better for now since he's similar scum equity, perhaps higher, and I trust my read there slightly more than I trust my skitter read rn.

[Music and Mail]

If you are town, Skitter, your townpool is overflowing with scum.

[Music and Mail]

Oh goody. I mean but I get to say a lot of stuff here.

[Music and Mail]

Having me sorted later in the game ups the odds of you not having to sort me at all because of scum nightkill.
Having me sorted earlier in the game means leashing most-all of the doctors onto protecting me.

Whatever Skitter I don't want to argue with you. I stand by everything I've said about your slot. I can be wrong but I mostly pushed it to get a reaction.
Talking to you when I'm not conftown is pointless because you take literally everything as an excuse to scumread me and ignore my reads.

[Music and Mail]

a50 is scum and implosion is scum and I wouldn't be surprised if gamma was the third.

[Music and Mail]

Bluntly I don't think that your reads are good.

[Music and Mail]

Your game history with me has me basically solving every game I was town on the first day, so that's another thing that I should be able to just call you for saying.

:shrug:

[Music and Mail]

call you scum*

[Music and Mail]

Let's just ignore each other for now though.

[Music and Mail]

I still think you're a pretty cool person even if we don't necessarily get along in mafia!

[Music and Mail]

(and obviously if you're scum then you're doing what you have to do so I'm fine with that )

[Music and Mail]

{Skitter30, Implosion, A50} is my lynchpool and I'm willing tentatively to provide a case on Implosion but I'm not going to just not scumread him because you claim to think he's town when I'm not townreading you.

[Music and Mail]

Actually Implo the plan

is

to cop me early and the docs are going to be on me (as confirmed town) so, okay?
But you're scum anyway.

[Music and Mail]

Or RC is town and you're scum and implo's ass is scum and Skitter... probably isn't scum, just being pocketed tbh but I feel like it would have made it easier to push yall by saying she was scum but okay.

[Music and Mail]

A50 if you're going to not vote Implo I'm 1v1ing you as soon as he dies and flips scum. You can make your decision where you stand there.

[Music and Mail]

(oh and I'll be conftown at the time, so )

[Music and Mail]

Investigate me.

Now that I am conftown or soon to be

VOTE: Implosion

Sheep conftown tytyty

[Music and Mail]

So if you think that me being town is even in consideration, you're implicitly saying that you agree that Skitter30 is scum.

Skitter... probably isn't scum, just being pocketed tbh

:eyes emoji:

You do realize that you're pushing a narrative that becomes a scumclaim fairly soon, right?

[Music and Mail]

So that we have this all in one place:

Almost50

has claimed N1 doctor and will be targeting

Music and Mail

. If we die, Almost50 is immediately lynched.

Music and Mail

has claimed N1 doctor as well and will be targeting

CreativeMod1

. If CreativeMod1 dies, Music and Mail is immediately lynched.

CreativeMod1

has claimed N1 cop as well and will be targeting

Music and Mail

. If they claim a result on anyone else, they are immediately lynched.

Good deal gents!

In exchange for having cops being leashed onto me (which I fucking loathe since my best asset as either alignment is the fact that I'm obvtown if you ignore that I'm obvtown as both alignments) I want

to be able to lead lynches with the docs leashed onto me until I lead a

single

mislynch. 1.

[Music and Mail]

To be clear, the bullshit here is you saying "I always get my read on skitter correct by the end of day one, therefore if you currently think i am town, you are obliged to currently think skitter is scum" when it is not yet the end of day one.

It was never about that, it was about Almost50's reaction to it.

[Music and Mail]

Nope, we're not lynching CreativeMod on D2. I get to lead the lynches until I flip town, which won't be D2. Honestly I'll probably mislynch on D3, I don't have a clear picture of third scum.

Please stop trying to line up lynches on town, Almost50, it's not becoming

I don't care. You aren't allowed to use explicitly false and misleading rhetoric to push your points, and I'm going to call it out as bullshit if you do.

I mean, go ahead. I can't be lynched

[Music and Mail]

(If there is concerns about CreativeMod, the proper play is to then have people cop him which confirms both alignments since by then there aren't going to be 3 scum.)

[Music and Mail]

Hell no.

I'm getting a scum lynch.

I don't trust town to trust my reads after I'm dead.

[Music and Mail]

And frankly to not use dishonest rhetoric is gamethrowing.

Why?

Because people overestimate their abilities.
If you asked most people, they'd say that their scumreads are something in the round of 50-60% likely to flip scum
when the truth is most people on ms have reads that are close to par (scumreads are no more likely to flip scum than average).

So if I came out with an honest appraisal of my reads on people, no one would take it seriously... because they think that their reads are better than 60%.
I've deathtunneled people on 50% and been right about 50% of the time and don't have regrets on it because it's upped my winrate compared to when I only deathtunneled when I actually knew for sure.

If I came out and said I think those people are 50% scum, everyone would laugh and continue to do their own thing and focus on their own reads.
Because they don't actually realize how good an objective 50/50 shot of hitting scum is.

If I had to use percentages of flips, and I am going to accurately now because it's no longer really important since I'm sure I'll get everyone on board now that I'm being copped

Implo 80%
A50 70%
Skitter ~45%

The highest Skitter ever was for me was 60% and that is a damn good read to have and be willing to push on.
For the record, I have had true 100% reads on people and when I have 100% reads on people I generally make that super clear, but this is more than good enough.

ot in a million years. Creative needs to be flipped to get you to conf!town status. Nothing less will make me trust you. Thank you very much.

P.S. he'd effectively be a VT by then IF he is a Cop anyway. It's much better than pushing someone we don't know their role and having them claim it. He'd be an outed Cop who has already used his ability.

I'm not letting you take a free mislynch on town, sorry. There are cops to cop him and once there's only 2 scum remaining, the game is easy.

[Music and Mail]

You can only rly be honest in mafia with people who are honest with themselves which is... very few people

[Music and Mail]

Because I'm not waiting until day 3 to start leading lynches, no-longer-almost-50.

[Music and Mail]

The best mafia games are mafia games that are predominantly meta-analyses of the game mafia and of human nature and leadership in general.

[Music and Mail]

Almost50, let's say
you were town and skitter was town and I was town and Implosion was scum
who do you think the remaining 2 scum are?

[Music and Mail]

we're not lynching anyone for stupid mechanical reasons like that.

then I won't be protecting M & M tonight to start with, and if that leads to my own mislynch, so be it. I'd rather play right and lose than win by playing this the wrong way. (Where is Mathdino to help me out here. He's the master of open-setups playing strategies).

Oh I see, you were looking for excuses to get out of this arrangement. Okay, that makes sense given that you'd just be straight up throwing the game.

[Music and Mail]

And frankly the -clear- right way to play the game is to then have CreativeMod copped because the 3 of us can't all be scum. And Mathdino would agree with that.

[Music and Mail]

(This is rather presumptuous in terms of a certain somebody flipping scum, but the smart betters are already there.)

[Music and Mail]

/me drives this lynch home

I die powerlynch A50.

[Music and Mail]

Leashing is good, the worthless peasants can't be expected to use their power roles effectively.

[Music and Mail]

The great unwashed ones in the marketplace of mafia.

[Music and Mail]

spicy

.

[Music and Mail]

Why should I? my trifling peasant scumbuddies are merely a means to an end, if I have to send them to the noose to ensure the survival of the noble class, then so be it.

[Music and Mail]

[Music and Mail]

Okay just so you understand the context here

I have not lost a game as scum this year (this excludes hydrae, but I did say I wasn't counting hydra winrate well before my first loss in a hydra.)
I won the award for scum play several years back and was a finalist for it this year and am generally regarded as the best or close to the best scum player on site.

Someone has to check me or the game is going to go absolutely mental paranoia tunneling me and it would do everyone in the game a great service if you took advantage of the situation to confirm me town.

[Music and Mail]

It's not just 'cop M&M for no reason', there's something going on here

[Music and Mail]

Oh: and now that we can talk about this
When Implosion was chosen by Pine for his scumteam in the Camn remake the pick caught me off guard and I was like oh I guess this guy must be a srs bsns scum player
And since I already had heavy meta on like LLD and whoever else was being taken seriously as scum I decided to add Implo to that list and did a bunch of analysis of his game
TL;DR I can read him Titus/NSG level accurately and I have very strong reason to believe he's scum here.

I have the potential for an 100% read which I had in the recently finished mini theme. I do not presently have that but I'm confident and I'm fairly sure that on the fairly low chance that he's town I'll figure it out before he's lynched. I'm confident enough to go crazy on him though.

(also to brag, when Alisae asked me my team there were two overlapping players, Mathdino (who got lynched admittedly) and Aristophanes. Ari carried that game )
I also wanted Keychain and NSG because I could write posts for both of them that would pass Elliberethchine, I wanted Mathdino because he might notice I was writing for NSG.

Oh, man! The TONE of 587 (especially the last part) makes me think RC is really Town here. Is he getting into my brain?? Can somebody help? CREATURE??

Most of the reason I don't get lynched as scum is that i'm too cute to lynch tbh

[Music and Mail]

I actually jsut realized I have no idea how to read penguinpower.

[Music and Mail]

Are you calling me scum or wrong?

[Music and Mail]

ahahahahahahhaha

no

[Music and Mail]

Implo's trying to hard not bus because he tried hard bussing last game and I called his teammates out for it

[Music and Mail]

Implo's trying to hard not bus because he tried hard bussing last game and I called his teammates out for it

...except i hard townread both of my scumbuddies in that game???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

but your team isn't bussing you this time.

[Music and Mail]

i suppose i'm assigning meaning to meaningless details given there's no scumchat to organize things.

[Music and Mail]

Postie is busy with RL stuff and won't be posting that much if at all but you can pass on messages to her from me and I'm passing on anything she says.

[Music and Mail]

He's just scum, yo.

[Music and Mail]

Just remember that Almost50 wanted to pretend that he supported an Implosion lynch, doccing me to allow me to be copped, and playing the game from there but when push comes to shove he keeps trying to avoid it.

[Music and Mail]

YES IT DOES

penguin

i'm being bullied by a listmod

can u pls protect me

[Music and Mail]

abuse of mod

[Music and Mail]

lynch da scums and end da games

[Music and Mail]

How can we solve this game?

[Music and Mail]

Bujaber in exchange for my having protected you from being lynched I would appreciate if you vote with me on Implosion.

[Music and Mail]

Or we could lynch implo, who is scum

[Music and Mail]

You've done good not_mafia kun

[Music and Mail]

How can we solve this game?

[Music and Mail]

How can we solve this game?

How can we solve this game?

How can we solve this game?

How can we solve this game?

How can we solve this game?

[Music and Mail]

How can we solve this game?

How can we solve this game?

I'm gonna vote Lil Uzi Vert because he still hasn't posted his IC post and thus must be refraining from doing that so the newbies can't catch him.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

How can we solve this game?

How can we solve this game?

Because I'm playing on MU.

How can we solve this game?

How can we solve this game?

Back from MU.

How can we solve this game?

How can we solve this game?

Ugh, the game is hard.

How can we solve this game?

How can we solve this game?

[Music and Mail]

Almost50, Creature, Gamma Emerald, BuJaber, CreativeMod1, implosion
Candidates: Not_Mafia, Spooghetioso
Lower candidates: Carcalilly
Remainers: PenguinPower, Music and Mail, Lovebird, skitter30

When implo flips scum can u apologize to me for being bad

[Music and Mail]

Bujaber in exchange for my having protected you from being lynched I would appreciate if you vote with me on Implosion.

I think I was doing fine on my own. It was a hell of a lot worse in earthbound mafia and I wasn't lynched even though scum got me all the way to L-1 I think.

Thanks though anyway if you're town whether or not you helped you actually tried to help which is good.

But I don't like implosion as a lynch before PP / gamma. I think gamma flips informs imp's alignment but it doesn't work very well the other way on the chance that he flips town. Like right now with the way that gamma a) pushed me, b) invalidated my meta read, and c) indirectly defended implosion, if implosion flips town then gamma could be either alignment.

I also think PP and Imp are not scum together.

So basically I need to know that the chance for imp to flip scum is much higher than him flipping town for it to make sense to lynch him first before the other 2. And I can only do that if I trust you fully which won't be before day 2. Join us on PP

I'm not flipping town for no reason to get to scum

[Music and Mail]

Alright towns reads are really bad this game and I will have to brute Force this to give town even a small chance of winning.

Which is unfortunate because I wanted to play this slow, but.

[Music and Mail]

He's harassing and bullying site users of course there's a reason to vote him.

Also I found penguin's train of thought on your posting activity while probably wrong to make sense as a town thought process and it was supported by evidence, so.

[Music and Mail]

Also look at this great engagement at the top of this page

[Music and Mail]

To say that it was a serious vote as opposed to a meme vote because I said that implosion was bullying me?

[Music and Mail]

One might say that the listmods are...

... imploding

/me sunglasses

[Music and Mail]

If Implo flips town I've already agreed to let go of the reins tomorrow AND I'm going to have been copped so you don't have to paranoia my slot.

[Music and Mail]

N_M you can 'fight' me on this but with me being conftown to be we both know that if I try to get Implo lynched he gets lynched.

Let's say you're right and Penguin is scum, do you expect me to take that read seriously after you hard defended implosion today?

You have to pick your battles. Are you sure this is one worth picking?

[Music and Mail]

I don't wanna make this any more difficult than it needs to be.

If I'm getting policy copped then I should get to counteract that minus equity by leading town as conftown, at least until I'm wrong once.

[Music and Mail]

If I'm not conftown then I have at most one mislynch to lead and trading a single mislynch for a 100% solution to scum me is a deal that any wise person would take. I don't offer it often either, ppl should be gr8ful

[Music and Mail]

I'm only offering it because it's a Hydra game and I don't have to maximize my win equity anyway.

[Music and Mail]

Implo I'm like

Deciding if I want to outright claim a guilty on you right now

So if you thought you could fool me by putting a brave face on and pretending like I should townread you...

We're like 95%.

[Music and Mail]

I realize that this is a frustrating experience for you to deal with and I won't replace into ongoings where you're scum in the future but I have a game to win and using intentionally deceitful rhetoric is playing to my win condition.

[Music and Mail]

I mean most people in the game are generally aware that my deathtunnels are of high caliber and I can point to direct evidence that my read on you is v, v solid and I still can't get more than 3 votes on you before going tryhards mode. With the deceitful rhetoric. If I was honest trying to Lynch someone like you who is good at fooling the masses I'd get one vote until I could literally say 100% guilty, and even then, like, they'd think my 100% guilty is the same as their 100% guilty kinda deal. Anyway.

[Music and Mail]

I'll take a different tac here: I'll dump secondary reasons to scumread you.

[Music and Mail]

Anyway, misleading rhetoric aside.

UNVOTE:

[Music and Mail]

Are you ready for the legendary secret of my implosion read?

he never rolls town

.

[Music and Mail]

actually implosion never rolls town

you're claiming scum if you say otherwise

VOTE: a50

[Music and Mail]

Out of all slots, you're the only slot who cannot afford to lynch today me as either alignment. If you're town you'll be dead tonight, and if you're scum you'll be lynched on D2 because WHY THE HELL WOULD SCUM LET YOU LIVE WHEN YOU'RE GETTING COP CHECKED?

but ur literally mod confirmed scum because implo doesn't ever roll town?????? ? ? ? ?? ?////???? question mark

[Music and Mail]

dw babe I won't be lynching you even tho I scumread u

[Music and Mail]

RC up to date readslist

{M&M}
{Bujaber}
{Creature}
{CreativeMod1, Implosion}
{}
{Skitter30, Spooghettioso, Not_Mafia}
-Null Line- {Penguin_Power}
{Lovebird, Carcalilly}
{Gamma Emerald, Almost50}

[Music and Mail]

if I had to make an outright guess at the scumteam right now it's carca/gamma/almost50.
that said I'm fairly happy to just pick one of the 3 that's not a50 and lynch there I think.

[Music and Mail]

its ok its only claiming scum if a50 says it

what are your reads on gamma and carcalilly?

[Music and Mail]

Sure, let's vote Gamma for now then.

VOTE: Gamma

@everyone else for reasons that I can't really put words to I kinda think Penguin is more likely to be town than not so I'm not going to support that lynch or allow it to happen.
I think that Gamma and A50 are scum together a very large percentage of the time and I think Gamma is an amazing lynch today, while I would also support Carca or Lovebird as tertiary options, Carca preferred.
Can we talk about our reads on Gamma/Carca?

[Music and Mail]

You're free to mislynch PP or whatever if you have to when I'm gone but I don't want it done while I'm alive.

[Music and Mail]

Depends on how you define fake.

I wouldn't have had a confident read on him if I hadn't done it.

[Music and Mail]

I have no enthusiasm about doing Lovebird because I can't confidently say that she's going to flip scum and I have a finite amount of days to impact the lynch and she probably doesn't endgame as scum.

[Music and Mail]

Who are these all scum? me?

[Music and Mail]

I think all scum are getting a D1 free pass.

[Music and Mail]

Good bujaber <3

[Music and Mail]

Whothe a good wittle buthaber?

Yeth u are

[Music and Mail]

as an act of kindness I will bump to the pagetop so teacher can make a VC.

[Music and Mail]

Postie!

[Music and Mail]

Bujaber voted Gamma
Implo unvoted PP

[Music and Mail]

Carca why do you have to be a scum butt

[Music and Mail]

I'm actually kinda questioning my gamma read even though I wouldn't like it

You wouldn't like the new read or you don't like the fact you're questioning the current read?

I wouldn't like the new read. It's because I think gamma is valuable to town but his posts just whisper superficial in my ear occasionally.

What happened to this superficiality or were you just scum trying to look like a good little townie (TM) by doubting your townread on your buddy?

[Music and Mail]

Carca why do you have to be a scum butt

you know you still love me

I will forgive you for rolling scum just this once

[Music and Mail]

Scum trying to get the lovebird mislynch through since Creature is determined to lose this game for town

[Music and Mail]

You guys just refuse to bus, huh?

[Music and Mail]

If we don't lynch who I say we're not copping me.

[Music and Mail]

The claim itself does in fact come from town nearly all of the time: I agree with that assessment.

[Music and Mail]

Lovebird slot (now the cage) is actually a huge question mark for me so I'm going to wait and see what the replacement does before I start brute forcing anything.

I do feel fairly certain that I have a 3 for 3 game solve right now.

[Music and Mail]

Just so my position on this is clear

Agreeing to be copped hurts town win equity in this game because it wastes a cop on someone who is or ought to be obvtown

Agreeing to be copped hurts town win equity for my future town games because it establishes as pattern that policy copping me is okay and wastes cops in future games.

Being copped also hurts my scum game obviously

Given that it is bad now and for the future to have this kind of arrangement I'm getting my lynches in return, to bring win equity back up to par and make it worth it.

This is a trade you're making, there's no leashed cops on me if your end of the bargain isn't held up.

[Music and Mail]

I've still only been nice RC this game.

No one wants to see not nice RC, myself included.

[Music and Mail]

If you're town your slot is currently the easiest mislynch for scum so you would do well to play seriously and generate reads.

@nicholas cage

[Music and Mail]

If your penguin read is serious which I hope it's not explain it.

[Music and Mail]

Nic you are going to be the Lynch today if I don't strong arm a defense of you and you're not making me want to.

[Music and Mail]

If you want diplomatic immunity without effort vote Carcalilly or Gamma.

[Music and Mail]

Counter offer we can Lynch gamma or carca today and we can all go on with our lives after copping me.

[Music and Mail]

If cmod doesn't cop me he should cop those 2 or A50
I will doc the cop, a50 should still doc me (but if he has an excuse not to he won't)

If I'm getting conftowned my already short lifespan will be even shorter and past games have shown me town will give zero ducks about my reads once I'm gone. I don't have time to hand scum a free mislynch then try to save the game from behind on D2.

[Music and Mail]

I still think the odds are super high that a50 just kills me anyway and tries to talk his way out of it and given people like skitter are around hell probably succeed if I haven't already hit scum to prove that my reads are right.

[Music and Mail]

[Music and Mail]

Implosion has a green name.

[Music and Mail]

Alright, I guess i'm doing this case thing now. Prepare yourselves or something

[Music and Mail]

I think the 3 scum are Gamma Emerald / Carcalilly / Almost50 from a mix of

1) individual scumreads on the 3 of them that I feel fairly good about
2) Interactions between each other seem very SvS
3) PoE: there's only so many leftover players that can be scum and some like Lovebird!slot don't really make sense as scum because they're being set up as mislynches and the others I just don't particularly feel are scum compared to this group.

I divided my cases into cases on the 3 of them which I'll split over 3 posts tackling their 3 isos, but some evidence pointing to each being scum will be found in other people's isos obviously so I recommend reading them all.

[Music and Mail]

Before I get into the quote wall, a lot of my scumread here isn't things that are easy to put words to because it's largely what's

missing

as opposed to what's

present

in their ISO that makes me scumread them. I'll do my best to refer to the things in this ISO specifically that I think are obviously scum because I think they are genuinely obvious scum purely on stuff that's present, but even with all the scummy shit in their iso there's still oodles more that I can't put words to. Like Maria I am well versed in Gamma Emerald meta having played a metric ton of games with him and him having been present in like, more than half of all of my modded games on site so this is a read that I put a great deal of faith in. He also knows that and should therefore have a great deal of faith in my ability to read him, but when I call him scum he doesn't call me scum for it he just tries to deflect me and push on other people. When he's town he flips the fuck out when I scumread him.

Spoiler: Gamma Emerald

So I would consider this but only today, and only if someone can give a really good reason to.

This is a scummy phrasing for reasons that you'll have to take my word on. I don't expect yall to get much mileage on this, but it's a thing that exists

I actually wanted to have some fun voting the newbie but I've never seen N_M say this much at all in any game I've played with him....ever.

VOTE: N_M

Not moving this vote all game until N_M is lynched.

T H I S. I S. A. L I E.
VOTE: PenguinPower

Gamma jumps on PP hot because of a point where he claims that they're lying about N_M's meta, something I would expect town them to feel very strongly about-

I recall being in a game with PP and NM where NM was fairly active and was Town

Until he says that I’m not giving him botd

-a bunch of quotes where Gamma does NOT talk about the lie but that I'm not C/Ping in for the sake of brevity

I actually wanted to have some fun voting the newbie but I've never seen N_M say this much at all in any game I've played with him....ever.

VOTE: N_M

Not moving this vote all game until N_M is lynched.

T H I S. I S. A. L I E.
VOTE: PenguinPower

Care to backup your claim? I can't recall a game I've played with him where he was the top poster...ever.

I didn’t say top poster, I just said fairly active

Then how was what I said a lie? I said "I've never seen him say this much in any game" not "I've never seen him fairly active in any game."

Seems like you're walking it back now.

Those look very similar tbh. Are you seriously going to get into a fight over nitpicks?

Those look very similar tbh. Are you seriously going to get into a fight over nitpicks?

Considering the accusation of lying (meaning I was deliberately intent on deceiving), bolding and spacing of letters, and the vote....yes.

Disagree it's a nitpick though. They are fundamentally different.

I agree they’re different. Not fundamentally, however. You’re saying this is the MOST active he’s ever been and scumreading him for it. I’m saying I remember him being similarly active in another game (btw for the record that game was Three-in-One) as town. I think that should be enough to create reasonable doubt in your lockscum read of NM.

Gamma Emerald jumped him at the start for lying but then when it came down to it it became more of a question of 'proving himself right' and saying that he's not giving PP benefit of the doubt unless he changes their read, calls PP out for reacting to being called a liar by asking him if he's going to get into a 'fight over nitpicks', and then at the end argues on an intellectual level that it should create reasonable doubt in his lockscum read of NM. This is

not

the reaction of Town!Gamma who thinks that PP lied. There's no effort to push on him, just to argue the 'correctness' of his position and no teeth behind any sort of push into PP. In the end he even backs right off and is put on the defensive. He's not interested in anything from PP besides defusing the argument.

I agree they’re different. Not fundamentally, however. You’re saying this is the MOST active he’s ever been and scumreading him for it. I’m saying I remember him being similarly active in another game (btw for the record that game was Three-in-One) as town. I think that should be enough to create reasonable doubt in your lockscum read of NM.

In that game (which was three games btw...this is one) he had 8 posts at this point. 17% of the posts he currently has. He increase in posting didn't happen until near endgame.

So, that was enough for you to scream that I'm a liar and vote me?

No, I misremembered his activity that game.
And I don’t think I ever walked anything back but w/e

He's defending himself to the person that he called a liar in big font like he believed in it. That's not town, that's scum Gamma who doesn't actually want to have this fight with PP.

It's a wifom argument of course it's contrived... if I said "I don't think scum would do that" someone will (or at least should) ask me "why not?" And I'd have to explain. I'm skipping that middle step.

That’s not my problem
I feel like your way of explaining it was rather roundabout

It's a wifom argument of course it's contrived... if I said "I don't think scum would do that" someone will (or at least should) ask me "why not?" And I'd have to explain. I'm skipping that middle step.

That’s not my problem
I feel like your way of explaining it was rather roundabout

Am I right though? Or would scum!you push a similar case as you did on PP and then kinda take it back?

The truth is I would push PP in the way I did, and have pushed someone in that manner in the past. Not for lying, but for another reason. Either way your argument still reads contrived and you appealing to being right tells me you lack a sufficient counter.

And more convoluted logic. My vote stays

"way of explaining it was rather roundabout"
"still reads contrived, lack a sufficient counter"
"more convoluted logic"

this isn't how town describes their scumreads, this is how scum describe people that they know are town that they're pushing on.

And more convoluted logic. My vote stays

That's what people said in civ mafia.

And if I recall you were one of very few people that didn't scumread me in day 1. Yet here you are.
Guess failure to meta read someone goes both ways.

How was your logic contrived in that game? And even then, your logic at this point is trying to push me+implosion because “Gamma changed my read on him which makes implosion possibly town, so they could be scum together”. That is some major mental gymnastics. How would I know that you would consider implosion town after that? In fact you just assuming we’re scum together is a red flag because that requires multiple assumptions. Plus there’s the fact I put myself in the spotlight. If you think I was saving him do you not think there were better options?

This post is truly scummy to the point of people not realizing that it's scum being essentially unforgivable.

I refuse to put detail to it, if you don't see it you gotta get better.

scum topic, clearly?
I just remembered that this game has no daychat for scum but that doesn't change my concern that her questioning him and not me is a TMI read.

I was going to question you on this but you are aware of the thing I thought you weren’t
I want to give townpoints for that tbh

Why give me townpoints for not remembering that scum have no daychat? If anything the fact that I've played this TWICE and didn't remember it suggests that I'm scum pretending I don't.

This is quickly turning into a commentary on various forms of government.

How???
This is such a ridiculous tangent it feels like misdirection

Yeah those responses don’t do much to convince me you’re Town
VOTE: implosion

Something something not how town talk about their scumreads, how scum talk about town that they are pushing on.

Having me sorted later in the game ups the odds of you not having to sort me at all because of scum nightkill.
Having me sorted earlier in the game means leashing most-all of the doctors onto protecting me.

with all due respect
no one but you cares as much as you do about ensuring your survival, and i'm sure you'll agree that stepping out of the frame of knowing you're town, having you sorted by a cop early would be pretty handy. I'm not necessarily advocating for that (I don't think it's a good idea at a glance to do anything to try to lead PRs around in this setup) but it's by no means bad from a neutral perspective.

99% of what skitter has said in the past 2 pages reads town to me, with the exception of a line that I think I had been misreading and can't even find on rereading where I thought she was townreading rc in a weird way and I'm not gonna try to keep finding it. I very much buy the way she's insisting this is outside her scumrange. I think most players who commonly talk about themselves as being easy to read are basically incapable of faking the "there's no way I can do this as scum" types of exchanges and it doesn't look bad to me at a glance.

VOTE: PenguinPower

I'm a little tempted to start BoP'ing rc though. But that can come in a few days if he keeps this up.

How is this play by RC worth a BoP read?

Gamma Emerald is familiar enough with people threatening to BoP me that this question doesn't have to happen, he'd start with the meat of why it doesn't need to happen in this instance.

The fact that you're scumreading 567 is ridiculous to the point where it doesn't merit a response.

What's your issue with the other response?

I don’t think having an off read is something that necessitates a BoP lynch. It warrants skepticism yes, but autolynching for that is a bad call. Me and MariaR have a good history of reading each other but MariaR also has a precedent of messing up sometimes, that doesn’t mean she’s scum for it.

He is voting Implosion and therefore agrees with me that he's scum, correct? So why is he arguing to his scumread that I shouldn't be BoP lynched for incorrectly scumreading him if he thinks that he's scum and that I'm town?

Sure, let's vote Gamma for now then.

VOTE: Gamma

@everyone else for reasons that I can't really put words to I kinda think Penguin is more likely to be town than not so I'm not going to support that lynch or allow it to happen.
I think that Gamma and A50 are scum together a very large percentage of the time and I think Gamma is an amazing lynch today, while I would also support Carca or Lovebird as tertiary options, Carca preferred.
Can we talk about our reads on Gamma/Carca?

This vote I don’t take issue with

I don't like Carca or LB much, and I guess I can hide behind someone else to vote Gamma having said I hesitate to touch him myself bc I often SR him regardless.

This means I'm alright voting either of the 3 for now.

VOTE: Gamma

Note to self: That's got to be the scummiest thing I posted in 2018.

This is shifty but A50 seems to know that. Weird that he’d post it knowing it looked scummy, but my first instinct is to call it Town A50

Neat.

I'm willing to swing Gamma potentially because I don't think I've actually ever seen him as scum. At least I can certainly be persuaded on it. I don't know how reading him works.

This however is pure horseshit. Just because he has no meta of scum!me he’s willing to follow onto the read, without even saying much wrt actual meta thoughts on me. And even with that he isn’t voting, which feels like he is testing the waters.

That ridiculous comment on A50 is SvS so much of the time and the fact that implo and myself are probably town means that there's likely 1 scum being addressed of the 3.

Good bujaber <3

Fine I'll VOTE: gamma but only because there's a chance RC gets confirmed soon and if he does get confirmed maybe I can trust his imp read for the time being.

Which he flipped for no reason

Another just this is a scum reaction and if you don't see it you won't see it.

Btw I’m like 70% on Carcalilly being Town
Will explain later if anyone cares

Why? I mean this makes most sense as SvS imo but.

gamma when you're town in a game with rc how likely are you to sheep him?

Pretty unlikely, even if I townread RC I don’t trust them to be rational enough to be worthy of sheeping.

[Music and Mail]

So moreso than Gamma with Carcalilly it's not going to be easy to just drag quotes out and say 'yeah this is a scum post' even though so many of her posts are scum posts in the context of knowing Carca. What makes her scum to me is the fact that her play is so damn boring and lacks any personality, she goes around making empty posts calling people town or scum whereas I would expect her as town to have a lot more 'personality' which I basically define as being a convoluted mess where her reads and positions are unclear and she flails around all game. She's just kinda there in general and takes meh positions and doesn't really explain any reads and largely what makes me confident is meta that I can't really explain and a few specific interactions. I really would prefer Gamma dead but am okay with doing this lynch if I literally can't get gamma through because town is being too dumb.

Spoiler: Carcalilly

Btw, I'm an informed townie. I know this game is single ball and the scum team is of 3 members. There are probably many 1-shot investigatives and many 1-shot protectors. I won't crumb/hint my role. Let's just call say I'm basically a VT starting D2 (and will still get shot anyway).

Signed: Dr.Monkey

It literally says this in the setup post.

"There are:
3 Mafia goons
4-6 Night-Specific Cops
4-6 Night-Specific Doctors
Mafia knows how exactly many cops and doctors exist, but not who they are nor when they have powers."

Calls A50 out for just regurgitating the setup post, but doesn't actually follow up on it in terms of a read or any sort of comment, just an empty statement.

So I would consider this but only today, and only if someone can give a really good reason to.

ye it would only be a good idea today imo

==

creature's town i think

==

i have no idea what to do with spammy!not_mafia; he hasn't done anything like this in any of my games with him; the most verbose i ever remember him being is in mathdino's stack-the-deck in mylo where he was scum but he was trying to be 'helpful' there and this isn't that

idk how to read this

(not that i know how to read regular nm either mind)

==

I HAVE TO PRESS ENTER LIKE 5 TIMES JESUS

Guys Unvote implosion yallre redicilus

this feels partner-y between carca and implosion

==

I AM THE TOP POSTER

you are now annoying me

==

This is Gamma's scum meta, right?

what do u think gamma's scum meta is?

==

I actually wanted to have some fun voting the newbie but I've never seen N_M say this much at all in any game I've played with him....ever.

VOTE: N_M

Not moving this vote all game until N_M is lynched.

T H I S. I S. A. L I E.
VOTE: PenguinPower

why is this a lie?

==

i expected to have more to say after reading five pages

gut town on nm and implosion, but i can't read either of them so my confidence in both of these reads is not super high

skitter is town

Yeah I think gamma is town. Scum maybe trying to set him up as today's lynch pool. Seems like a stupid fight to pick with PP as scum and also it doesn't feel fake to me.

Scum pool: {implosion, carcalily, PP, hanshen, cmod, enigma} + A50 is a maybe.

This guy is town

skitter I was joking

Imploos Vs Bujaby looks like town v town

gamma probtown

I can't read spaghetti for the life of me

A bunch of empty townreads, empty 'yo this is TvT', then the first read that she explicitly hedges on is Gamma.

bujabby give me a self meta

your organization is very awkward and almost contradictory, but I feel like you're a sort of train-of-thought writer

Not how people describe their townreads for 800$, Alex?

okay bujy's logic is faulty but I can't see any scum motivation for what they're trying to do

So far you haven't pointed out a single "scum motivation" behind any post made by any player. Are you TRing the whole list? (Or at least everyone who did post)

Im very picky about who I decide is scum

but if u really wanna know it's u and penguin I'm worried about

Like I want to clarify that this says a lot more about carcalilly's alignment than it does about A50
but this does really heavily point to them being SvS, this is really bad.

aww no RC get out of my game

This makes a lot more sense when we know that she's scum

aww no RC get out of my game

Serious request?

lol no

You pop up too much

penguin and bujabber is so town Vs town Someome please agree with me and make them stop

just fucking lol

going way back in the thread for a sec

I'm actually kinda questioning my gamma read even though I wouldn't like it

You wouldn't like the new read or you don't like the fact you're questioning the current read?

I wouldn't like the new read. It's because I think gamma is valuable to town but his posts just whisper superficial in my ear occasionally.

like jesus fucking christ this is not something town says. does heavily point to them being both scum, ridiculous shit like this is usually SvS and the manner of the hedging points to SvS as well.

Wow this wagon on me looks shitty

I don't even know who's on it since I'm reading backwards but who the heck would wagon gamma

I'm actually kinda questioning my gamma read even though I wouldn't like it

You wouldn't like the new read or you don't like the fact you're questioning the current read?

I wouldn't like the new read. It's because I think gamma is valuable to town but his posts just whisper superficial in my ear occasionally.

What happened to this superficiality or were you just scum trying to look like a good little townie (TM) by doubting your townread on your buddy?

key word occasionally

Hedges on the Gamma townread but then when actually called out on it refuses to budge on it at all.

Carca why do you have to be a scum butt

you know you still love me

You guys do realize this is literally a scum claim correct?
also just in case i'm gonna get aristophanesed i don't actually love this person

how about a50

this scumread disappeared for a long time but popped up again
I'll go more into detail on this with A50 because I think A50's ISO is actually the one that ties everyone together but
THERE YOU GO!

[Music and Mail]

I can meta A50 and call him scum just on a dime and that should be respected.
I'm metaing A50 and calling him scum.

So we're going to just skip the entire process of talking about my read on A50 and instead talk about his associations with the other two, which I think put a nice bow and ribbon on the scumteam.

Spoiler: Almost50

what do u think gamma's scum meta is?

idk.

There was a time when I used to read Gamma accurately.. until I rolled scum with him, and from then on I auto-SR his play and try my best not to lynch him until it's mechanically necessary because I know I am biased.

@Gamma: Yes.. that Varsoon game messed up my way of reading you

Very early in the game, Almost50 makes an excuse for why he's going to be avoiding a Gamma lynch in a game where scum benefit from not bussing (unless executed perfectly)

Technically he didn't call you a liar. he just said what you said was a lie.

Like, if I told you I have a dinosaur in my backyard I'd be lying, but if I said skitter does I'd probably be spreading a lie she told me but I'm not necessarily lying myself because maybe I believe her.

But then you did say you never saw BN_M this active, so you were reporting for yourself, so maybe he did call you a liar??

But then maybe you just forgot, so it wasn't an actual lie, bur rather a memory slip, so maybe he's not calling you a liar after all.

How's that for a silly conversation??

So first off: really weird post.
Second off: he's trying to soften the Gamma calling PP a liar thing while Gamma is trying to do the same thing and I'm pretty sure he's just trying to cover for his scumbuddy here.

a50 you're really tempting me to vote you instead of more-or-less claimed scum. Can you not do that.

It's been a long time since you played me, right? I've transformed into an even more sarcastic player.

But don't worry, I'll play the game as soon as I am fully awake.

Postie!

okay bujy's logic is faulty but I can't see any scum motivation for what they're trying to do

So far you haven't pointed out a single "scum motivation" behind any post made by any player. Are you TRing the whole list? (Or at least everyone who did post)

In-Thread coaching for 400$, alex.

but if u really wanna know it's u and penguin I'm worried about

Lay your cards then. Why do you suspect me? Why PP? Do you think we're scum together or are the SRs separate?

Again, no attempt to follow up on anything, just an in thread coaching attempt where he tries to get Carcalilly to flesh out her reads.

I'm actually kinda questioning my gamma read even though I wouldn't like it

You wouldn't like the new read or you don't like the fact you're questioning the current read?

Do you get the impression that Almost50 is actually trying to sort her?

I have no bloody mechanical reads. All I have is tone and gut

I don't want to lynch: PP/M & M/Creature/Gamma/BuJ/N_M/implosion/Spoogheti/skitter

This leaves Carcalilly/CreativeMod/Lovebird for my D1 lynch pool.

That doesn't mean I TR all of those I don't want to lynch. I just feel that some can be sorted out later, and some can be valuable assets if town (so basically need Cop checks on as many of them as possible).

I also have nothing against the 3 I can lynch except I don't feel like they've been doing anything that helps me read them better.

Maybe let Lovebird live today too, as I think there are other players here capable of reading her?

Eh.. I've just checked the activity, and Carca has 48 posts already, yet I can't remember a single thing she said that makes me not want her out of this game.

Hmm.. looking at the VC, I see none of the experienced players is voting Carca. Any reason why any of you TR this slot?

Carca is just too scummy to exist at this point, and so he puts her in the scumpool.
But rather than pushing on her directly, he as lightly as possible doesn't call her scum and instead asks everyone else why they aren't voting there.


Note that A50 knows my read on Skitter is better than his and would have voted with me if he were scum with her or if he were town imo.

As this information is now public, I'd like to hear from the town who I should investigate as I'm not 100% sure

Music and Mail is your assigned target then.

You get protected by them and I protect them, ensuring the survival of the both of you.

Now here's the trick, my friend: You've just set yourself for the lynch on D2. Why? To ensure your check on M & M is for real (I won't lose to scum faking Cop on scum. Sorry!).

If you do flip Town M&M will be confirmed a town slot and all Doctors can protect them from then on.

If yours is a scum flip though, guess what?

Immediately after we setup the situation where I'm going to be confirmed town, he lines up a lynch to delay my being able to actually systematically lead lynches.

we're not lynching anyone for stupid mechanical reasons like that.

then I won't be protecting M & M tonight to start with, and if that leads to my own mislynch, so be it. I'd rather play right and lose than win by playing this the wrong way. (Where is Mathdino to help me out here. He's the master of open-setups playing strategies).

Before I started massively calling him out for it, he tries to use not being handed that free mislynch as an excuse to derail the whole protection situation and get that kill on me.

Oh, man! The TONE of 587 (especially the last part) makes me think RC is really Town here. Is he getting into my brain?? Can somebody help? CREATURE??

And if RC is Town it follows that Creative is Town (I'd only expect this gambit if they were both scum together). But if that's the case then I have no reason to SR implosion (except if I surrender and officially sheep RC, whom I would expect to lead us to oblivion anyway and then replace out if Town).

Sorry, RC. You know how rate your TOWN game. It's not half as good as your scum game IMHO. Please don't be offended by me saying that. *Sigh*

Not town!A50.

I don't have a solid scumread that I'm still feeling good about anymore

See, that's the problem with me too. Those who are active enough all look town to various degrees, but I very much doubt the whole scum team is lurking.

UNVOTE:

Also, the reaction from implosion to me voting him is more likely to come from town than scum. He didn't even bother ask me for a case, which means he either doesn't care of is reading with comprehension.

This just, eww. Felt like scum who wanted to keep their options open but didn't want to be on the wagon unless necessary.

OMG! This looks bad (if you want to look at it with a paranoid eye). In that game I let implosion live to endgame. If he flips red I'm a suspect for defending him, and if he lives long and is town then I also let him live. I guess I need to be lynched on D2 to cut down the paranoia anyway.

Scumpost.ca

I don't like Carca or LB much, and I guess I can hide behind someone else to vote Gamma having said I hesitate to touch him myself bc I often SR him regardless.

This means I'm alright voting either of the 3 for now.

VOTE: Gamma

Note to self: That's got to be the scummiest thing I posted in 2018.

This is shifty but A50 seems to know that. Weird that he’d post it knowing it looked scummy, but my first instinct is to call it Town A50

UNVOTE:

To me; Gamma is as Town as Creature is (i.e. highest degree of confidence). Scum!Gamma was supposed to attack me for this vote and the way I phrased the post. I don't think he can even afford to fake a TR on me under the circumstances, and he always has trouble figuring out what I'm doing so it would have been most easy for him to OMGUS me and appear natural.

Note the difference between the 180 on Gamma and Implosion is that Implosion he just said was more likely town and kept the options open and didn't really defend him.
With Gamma, he's fully declaring him absolute locktown and giving himself leverage to start hard defending him and he does so for frankly batshit reasons.
Do you people who are really townreading A50 on 'tone' (you are bad at doing that) think that he has this massive change of heart over something so stupid?
Or do you think that he's scum who wanted to look like he was initially open to voting Gamma but doesn't actually want to see them lynched?

Frankly; I just copied and pasted my old read list and moved Gamma up, but totally forgot about that townslip of yours. That said, I won't put you at the very top for <reasons>.

Also, I am still ignoring that question you quoted. Capiche?

{Creature, Gamma}
{BuJaber, skitter}
{implosion, Cmod}
{Spooghetioso, M & M}<===neutral/null
{N_M}
{PP}
{LB, Carca}

Carcalilly has been prodded.
Lovebird has appr six hours to pick up their prod.

I'm tunneling the LB slot if that gets replaced again. I can't see a town slot getting replaced twice in 72 hours at the start of the game. Maybe the first player flaked.. but what about the second one? Why would they replace in then decide not to play after they have picked their role PM and actually posted in the game thread?

So then in terms of other people to vote he puts both Carca and LB at the bottom slot (expressing openness to wagoning both) but then says that he'll powerlynch the LB slot if it gets replaced again when they were already obviously getting replaced again, so another case of him wanting to look like he was open to wagoning his scumbuddies but in actuality he isn't.

Whoa, check? Did creative claim a pr or something?

I'll be damned if this isn't S.C.U.M

No follow up of course, because the slot that was replaced twice is SUCH a scumfuck amirite

It's official! teacher has just posted in the replacements thread looking for someone to fill in for LB.

VOTE: Lovebird

A28 - remember twin trap? I'm happy enough with your reasoning to treat it like a guilty. Can we hold off on LB and hit other scum first?

People don't feel fine about lynching Carca and I have yet to locate a 3rd suspect with any degree of confidence.

That said, I'm the only vote on LB right now so the slot is unlikely to even have a wagon on it before it gets filled. My vote is just stating a stance.

Ohhhh because

people don't feel fine about lynching Carca

I see.
Not because you wanted to wagon town

They say it's over when the fat lady sings but your mom's voice is disgusting so I'd rather she keep her mouth shut, thanks.

[Music and Mail]

It would not serve your interests well to insinuate that I can read you well this game

[Music and Mail]

No, so I can die anyway and A50 flails about how he thought scum would never kill me when there was a claimed doc on me and Skitter30 fakeclaims cop in his defense because she thinks her reads are the be all and end all and then town somehow manages to lose this from here.

[Music and Mail]

I would feel very bad about myself as a person and a mafia player.

Well, I haven't thought of all the names I would include on that list. My point was RC does NOT know ANYTHING about my game as either alignment, and is working off a 2 years old meta at best. He did play me on MU (and knew who I was) and he miclynched me still, so he can't claim he can meta me "just on a dime" (whatever that literally means)

You need to relearn the respect that you had for me two years ago.

[Music and Mail]

Gamma is the lynch today by the way.

[Music and Mail]

imo by far the highest equity substitution that could be made in the scumpool is to add spaghettioso but I would put them in place of Carcalilly rather than Gamma, so that's why the order is
Gamma -> Almost50 -> Carca with spare cops going on carca to test that one

[Music and Mail]

that's not to say I'm not like pretty dang confident in Carca being #3, I'm just trying to make the best possible play and gamma today is it.

VOTE: Gamma

if I haven't already

[Music and Mail]

I think people openly attempting to policy lynch me for being good at scum at early stages of games is completely unacceptable and should be something that people get punished for.
Given that site moderation doesn't see eye to eye with me on that, I think that it's healthier for me to remove myself from situations where I feel that I am being attacked on an out of game basis.
I didn't really change over the last two years. Even when I had the scummy and still had the literal 100% winrate since start of 2015 in early 2016 no one advocated PLing me.
And I was much more of a shit back then so more liable to be PLed for just general being awful, but it still literally never happened.

Now it happens extremely frequently and it kills my interest in playing mafia and I have to be super careful about playerlists I join to avoid negative experiences.
And then sometimes people that I've never played before (e.g. ruru) will come at me with it and I didn't really have a way of predicting it, so I'm just stuck.
If I could still play in the environment that I played in 2 years ago you wouldn't notice a difference.

[Music and Mail]

Like in the past the viewpoint people had was 'well we are statistically just going to lose if hes scum anyway' and they treated me like everyone else unless I did something to earn being under fire
now it's 'okay he is

really good as scum

but maybe if I absolutely clusterfuck town's chances of winning if we're both town we can get, like, some sort of 5% chance of winning this if he rolls scum here. even though everyone did the same shit in those other games and it didn't really work for them, maybe it will work out for me!'

people like skitter or mathdino or ruru or whoever you want to cite as an example think they're being original and creating a new avenue to beat me as scum when they refuse to listen to any of my reads and scumread me no matter what I do but I've been there and done that so many times with people doing that and it hasn't helped them that you'd think they'd get past it at some point.

like it started in 2017 when I was starting to feel the need to point out to people that what they were doing was fucking them over and that realistically if they valued winning with and against me equally they were badly screwing their own win percentages with your play and ended where we are today, where I hardly want to play mafia because the meta is so toxic but everyone is quitting for similar reasons and if I do too it's just going to die without anyone trying to drive change. even when the town winrate was lower than it was now the game was far healthier to play in.

[Music and Mail]

You're scum, I'm not blaming you for anything besides your bad choice of alignment

[Music and Mail]

We're gonna hit a shit ton of scum over the first few days

I can live with having been wrong on you.

[Music and Mail]

(particularly given you're hard def end ing gamma c:)

[Music and Mail]

Yes.

Help me bus Gamma.

he literally claimed scum tho

wait

he claimed scum WITH A PARTNER (gamma)

[Music and Mail]

oh phew it's not against the mods rules

this would have been... spicy :3

[Music and Mail]

Almost50 you know I'm only scumreading you because your associatives with double flipped scum are really bad?
I actually have zero opinion on your current play otherwise.

[Music and Mail]

Like if it's not you then we can go ahead and lynch Lovebird > Spaghettioso and probably win the game.
But like dear god man your defense of gamma is so bad, your failure to scumread carca for being scummy was so bad, you pushed Carca but refused to actually push her

[Music and Mail]

Almost50 you know I'm only scumreading you because your associatives with double flipped scum are really bad?

Not sure I understand. What 'flipped' scum?

Gamma and Carcasilly are scum.

[Music and Mail]

Amusingly both Gamma and Carcalilly's first reaction was to argue against the train of thought that you would be their third which might actually indicate that you're not. It's pretty spicy.

[Music and Mail]

What if you're wrong on Gamma and I'm right? What if you just sheeped me here like you once would?

[Music and Mail]

Bro I'm helping

confirmed scum

Penguin Power bus. There's nothing shady about helping a good friend of mine bus their buddy. What's wrong with you?

[Music and Mail]

like when you say a50 is probably scum out of you/a50/implo in that wagon scan thing I did, rule of 3 does not work that way

[Music and Mail]

Okay okay fine maybe A50 is town.
Lovebird for third then I guess, followed closely by Spaghettioso.

[Music and Mail]

???

are you implying that the great PENGUIN POWER would claim scum as town?

I think not, heathen.

get yourself gone from my presence thou scumfuck.

[Music and Mail]

Oww.

[Music and Mail]

VOTE: Carcalilly

I started writing that before you threatened to replace out by the way.

[Music and Mail]

Let's just lynch 100% literally claimed scum and decide what we'll do tomorrow later.

I'm getting second thoughts about both other scumreads.

[Music and Mail]

gamma please stay

[Music and Mail]

What if you're wrong on Gamma and I'm right? What if you just sheeped me here like you once would?

What if I'm right and you're wrong about Gamma? And what good am I a player to still be mindlessly sheeping you after all this time? I am no longer a rookie, my friend, and we're talking about someone I play often. We're not talking about someone I don't know or have no experience with.

It's possible. If you're town like my scumread on Gamma is very minor and I'm no longer feeling so hot about you being scum.
Carca's scum, we both know that, let's hit scum today and then reevaluate tomorrow.

[Music and Mail]

gamma please stay

Do you promise not to treat posts that are typically made facetiously as Word of God?

I didn't think they were ever serious posts, I was just meming.

[Music and Mail]

When I claimed you guys were a scumteam my level of certainty was like 20% btw.
But I felt like the reactions would be v telling

[Music and Mail]

I also don't think the replace out like -necessarily- makes Gamma town, I do think it makes it worth lynching Carcasilly first though.

[Music and Mail]

I'm counting on my having a second day.

[Music and Mail]

If we have an extra D1 cop I think that a Gamma check would be extremely enlightening this game.

Btw, I have been mining for special rules made by various mods (to make my own personal list for my own games), and I recall one being "You may claim scum, but you may NOT claim scum with someone else". I do/would not take that literally though. I think it means it's against the rule to expose your scum team for real (some players get angry over being bussed or in some other situations where they actually say something like "I'm scum and my team is X, Y & Z" then they rage quit)

Yeah I was wondering if that rule was present and if the listmod was in big treble

[Music and Mail]

PostieToday at 6:46 PM
Possibly
K I do more readering
NEW MESSAGES
PostieToday at 7:00 PM
In hindsight I despise every inch of Carca's posting to the point that she's now my top scumread and I would deathtunneling her if I were playing the game solo

[Music and Mail]

A50 I have the real solve and I need to know I'll be alive tomorrow to give it out
If you're doing any sort of WIFOM around the doc claim say so now

[Music and Mail]