Open 790 | Purgatory | Game Over!

[clidd]

The fact that I am being ignored for 24 hours is suggestively an indicator that I am invisible.

[clidd]

I like cats
Ur fonts look horrible in sepia
Maybe Ill get used to it

But lets get the ball roling
Has anyone played on this setup before?
Are there any strategies regarding this? As mafia and as town

Since there are no PRs, I guess a lot of traditional strategy is discarded here

And from the games I played with you, Word, this post seemed like a deviation from your analytical/serious behavior to an empathic/silly one without a specific context for that.

I speculate that you felt the cognitive burden of finally being scum.

VOTE: Word

[clidd]

By the way, it's a hemorrhagic pleasure to be here and see you again Dann, Isis, Norwegian, Word and Walter.

[clidd]

I don't have an expressive experience with all the players to give an opinion on the conversational ping-pong from last pages, so I didn't consider AI the content.

More votes on Word, please.

[clidd]

Actually, post 58 gave me a better impression about Hayasaka.

I can see/agree with that pov.

[clidd]

And it would be interesting to stop speculating about sending player X or Y to a certain place for N reasons. Discussion of mechanics is not useful in the AI ​​field and is the easiest thing to speculate as a demon (I will use this pronunciation now) ^

[clidd]

I am curious Isis, how much of a main thread do you follow in a game once you are eliminated?

I'd rather send to heaven a strong town player who has told us their final reads, and WHO WON'T keep up, and then will do a reread if we get to judgment day.

I think reading a mature game (like, actually reading the thing) without many preconceptions is probably the strongest town weapon. It's why town replacements into a game can be killer if done by a strong player.

I didn't find this useful, for example ^

I don't want to see boring, but this type of advice is generic in my opinion and seems to try to give the impression that you are trying to verbalize something pro-town, when in reality you are only emphasizing something of common sense.

[clidd]

If we are going to discuss something mechanical, regardless of being a setup/strategy, let it be something objective and of short duration. Unless, of course, if we are in a critical situation (deadline, lylo, judgment day, etc.)

[clidd]

The discussion of posts/motivations/players /meta seems to me much more relevant.

[clidd]

I don't want to see boring, but this type of advice is generic in my opinion and seems to try to give the impression that you are trying to verbalize something pro-town, when in reality you are only emphasizing something of common sense.

Glad you think my strategy is common sense.

Do you think policing conversations is AI?

I suppose that was not the original message of this post.

Yes, depending on how they occur.

[clidd]

Also, nobody should make AI determinations from strategy discussions. Nobody has a motivation to say anything that isn't what they perceive to be optimal strategy, or at least a moderately good one.

Ok, and what is the connection between that and what I said ?

[clidd]

I don't think that you do not consider that continually speculating strategies causes an NAI impression.

Other point is that if you spend your time doing this, the time you could be actively scumhunting is subtracted.

[clidd]

Correction:

I don't think that you consider that continually speculating *

- This isn't a freudian slip, I'm not native to english.

[clidd]

I'm saying people should actively work against drawing AI conclusions from strategy discussions.

I can walk and chew bubble gum, and have fishing lines out waiting for some bites. You've been the biggest distraction that's keeping me talking not about mechanics strategy, but talking about talking about mechanics strategy. I think

that's

AI as it looks like you're hunting when you're not.

This does not change the fact that there are AI impressions of your strategy posts.

This analogy didn't make sense and I'm looking at your answers to get an AI impression of your reasoning. I also find it difficult that you don't consider this side.

[clidd]

I'll take a look at something, back later.

[clidd]

I'm back with a better view.

[clidd]

walk and chew bubble gum is a saying that just means you can do two things at once.

if you're trying to get AI from strategy discussion, you're doing it wrong for the reasons I've already stated. glad we've successfully gone full circle on this. want to continue to spin tires?

I can't see why it would be invalid for me to take an AI impression of a mechanical post that looks like a filler to fill space. By extension, this would also be hypothetically ignoring mechanical post spam, as I cannot draw AI conclusions from their presence (it doesn't work).

But looking back at those posts again, I didn't feel bad faith on your part to explain your point of view to me in a logical way (although I don't agree with the reasoning). In fact, I noticed a subtle anger in your tone, which may be related to some indignation (towny).

[clidd]

clidd is an angelread

hard pass on this take

And I think that you would have voted me after this post as Scum!G.C ^

[clidd]

Indignation, anger and etc can be faked, but in these scenarios they are usually made in an explicit way verbally to be visible, which was different in the case of GC, who tried to suppress and stay in the rational sphere.

[clidd]

More votes on Word, guys.

[clidd]

I really wanted to comment on what you have clarified, but I feel it will be a drunken discussion.

[clidd]

Now that we've successfully had a two-page discussion about how we view discussions about strategy, what do you make of Cth and Norwegian's back and forth about Cth's alt status?

He could have make some comparisons by typing patern in a hidden way to improve the accuracy of the search.

In this case, the public coming and going can be seen as an image maintenance(scummy), but as it is within the context of Norwegian's profile, it's a different action from what I have seen from his scumgames (not so scummy at all).

[clidd]

Now speaking of Cth, his vote on you was bad and disregarded our previous interaction, where it was possible to see, in my opinion, that you acted in good faith (scummy).

[clidd]

I feel that his text structure is unnatural and that he is trying hard not to reveal typing strokes that could confirm connection with another account (isn't scummy, but don't give me a good feeling).

I want to pressure word now, otherwise I would vote him.

[clidd]

VOTE: Word

Pedit: you sniped me, this is probably L-1
let's be civilised here
no lolhammers

This is another ping about Cth.

[clidd]

I can't see why it would be invalid for me to take an AI impression of a mechanical post that looks like a filler to fill space. By extension, this would also be hypothetically ignoring mechanical post spam, as I cannot draw AI conclusions from their presence (it doesn't work).

To be clear:

1. You SHOULDN'T draw AI thoughts from substantive recommendations about strategy. Nobody is going to give a bad strategy to hurt town--neither town (obviously) or scum are motivated to openly suggest bad strategies. If you start feeling like "oh Player X must be town because that's a good strategy," slap yourself and wake up. No AI.

2. You CAN get AI from whether a player focuses MOSTLY or ONLY on setup speculation or mechanics strategy, because like you said scum can use it as a crutch.

3. You CAN get AI from players who focus on whether other players are focusing on setup speculation or mechanics strategy, because it's a super easy "discussion about a discussion" that scum can use to look busy.

By the way, this is almost a

"why you don't understand, idiot"

, which I see as genuine (genuine=towny in this context).

[clidd]

I believe that the last thing Scum!GC would like was an early 1v1, so returning to the subject indicates persistence in what you said, increasing the chance of being content that you believe to be true and is not being understood in the way you wanted.

[clidd]

That's all, I still think Word is the most likely demon and would like to see he posting.

[clidd]

I feel that his text structure is unnatural and that he is trying hard not to reveal typing strokes that could confirm connection with another account (isn't scummy, but don't give me a good feeling).

I want to pressure word now, otherwise I would vote him.

my main's been outed clidd
it's Hectic

Sorry, you don't look like Hectic.

If you post with Hectic's account, I'll believe you.

[clidd]

I believe that the last thing Scum!GC would like was an early 1v1, so returning to the subject indicates persistence in what you said, increasing the chance of being content that you believe to be true and is not being understood in the way you wanted.

why do you think this?
have you played with or seen Green Crayons before?
a 1v1 isn't all bad for scum
in general others often wind up townreading both parties

I did a research of his meta to have a base.

1v1 draws a lot of attention in my opinion and his insistence did not seem in bad faith to me, as well as his reactions to what I said.

[clidd]

why don't I look like Hectic?

You don't seem to be flowing naturally in your texts (my personal view).

[clidd]

Hum.

[clidd]

What do you think about G.C reactions to my disagreement ?

[clidd]

I don't I want to talk about that again, but I'll put inside spoilers:

Spoiler:

My problem with mechposts is that they are not difficult to be made from a scum mentality and often occupy unnecessary spaces.

It is more difficult for me to read a person whose at least 60% of the ISO (not the case here) consists of speculations/strategies with a view to the future (what should be done, why and how) than a person who keeps on discussing posts, motivations and etc (as I mentioned in post 202).

Now regarding G.C's reactions, I liked these posts: 204, 212, 213, 218, 247 and 249

I don't know if I am the only person who subtly sees the expression of anger during the sequence above, which is the point I am using to emotionally infer that he did not act in bad faith.

[clidd]

Correction:

I don't want*

[clidd]

Yes, in this context (not always).

[clidd]

I don't know if I can find another word to express myself better than

''bad faith''

or

''good faith''

, but I'm trying to make it understandable.

[clidd]

Do you agree with me on G.C or at least see what I see in those posts, Norwegian ?

[clidd]

But if he shows irritation in his posts, doesn't that mean he sees my disagreement as wrong/absurd ?

I imagine that he would be more flexible when approaching this topic as scum, because he would know that what I observed about the post mechanics would have some truth about him doing filler.

[clidd]

Another point is that he prolonged the discussion instead of leading our discussion to a point of

"I will not answer you anymore"

.

He wanted to prove me wrong, and added to the anger that you also detected, isn't a signal that it was coming from his pride ?

I see Scum!G.C colder than that.

[clidd]

No, all my speculation is based on his towngames, so what I said about the Scum!G.C action line is imaginary.

If he has any scumgame in his profile, it's probably from years ago.

[clidd]

In this case, I imagine that he would be colder in the scum alignment and would not care so much about pride, which would not generate anger.

[clidd]

I'll take a break, back later.

[clidd]

I'm back.

[clidd]

he can think you're wrong or show frustration as scum as well clidd

Yes, any scum can to a certain extent.

The thing is: I

don't

think that's the case here.

[clidd]

By the way, Word disappeared from the forum but the impression I got from 133 remains.

[clidd]

Hey Miss Hayasaka and Miss Isis, I would like to ask two questions:

1. what do you think about the suspicions on Word ?
2. by extension, what are your opinions on the AI ​​impression I got from G.C ? does it make sense ?

[clidd]

G.C, if you are there, I would like your help too.

I know you are scumreading me (and probably didn't like my texts), but I'll need your pov on the slots in generall. It doesn't have to be detailed, you can sum it up.

I'm townreading you and I want to understand your vision of the gamestate.

[clidd]

No, all my speculation is based on his towngames, so what I said about the Scum!G.C action line is imaginary.

If he has any scumgame in his profile, it's probably from years ago.

Going back to this, Norwegian, do you think what I said above is valid ?

I know that there is a greater margin of error when you don't have a scum game to compare, but I believe that the premise that each player tends to be colder in the scum alignment, by default, even if this difference is small, tends to be true.

[clidd]

Good to see you're healthy, my friend.

Unfortunately, I am suspicious of you. I don't know if I'm overestimating your playstyle, but your last posts were far below what I observed in our last-past game.

[clidd]

I'm talking about your first two posts in the game ^

[clidd]

I just came out of an exam; unfortunately, the beginning of the game coincided with an evaluation (the last of the semester, no less) on my university.
I have by a code of honour that I dnt lie about things outside the game itself, so u can take my word for granted

Don't worry, I trust you on that.

[clidd]

Hum, can you objectively read the content from the last pages and share your impressions ?

I didn't find your answer so convincing, so let's work on how you see the current information.

[clidd]

You don't have to do wallposts, just be transparent in what you think.

[clidd]

Hum.

[clidd]

I would like to see more opinions in Word's posts before commenting.

Particularly, I find his interpretive reasoning different from the town!Word that I know.

[clidd]

That was a forced comment.

[clidd]

It goes into maintenance of appearance what you said, but I believe there must be a context for you to feel the need to express it.

[clidd]

Mine or yours?

Yours, if you don't have a context to said that.

Like

"you need to that because of *insert reason*"

[clidd]

Forget it, I decided to comment on his post now.

[clidd]

Ok, thanks.

[clidd]

What are you misrep ?

I'm not a native speaker, so if something sounds confuse, you can ask me.

[clidd]

No problem.

My idea was to comment only after reading the opinions of others about his posts, because the fact that Word is my friend and I never saw his scumgame could influence my judgment, but in a second thought, I believe that I can police myself in relation to this and be impartial.

[clidd]

I'm.. Back.. Reading.. Soon..

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Is the difference between the Isis chute and the Cth chute font??
there's nothing more in your posts that i can find
what's the deal
I only figured out the "chutes" the second time
chutes and ladders

No, it's not the font.

I should really play the game though as happy as I am to see Isis order my favorite card and would love to stay off topic.
I think one of Isis or Cthylla is scum here, I think scum have the most incentive to open up the game with this much presence.

Similarly to the way scum tend to open up theme games strongly because they spent time getting hyped up already. I think scum would look and see their win con involves getting sent to heaven and would promptly decide to open up the game like this to try and achieve an early pocket.

The only read I am particularly happy about is my current vote. I think your

<GC note: "your" is "Isis">

energy is headed into way too many OOG posts for me to be able to think you are trying to actually pocket anyone.

Post 58 is a cute theory to pursue early D1. That means either Isis or Cthylla is voteworthy under this theory.

Note I was voting Isis before digesting Post 58, in an initial skim of the 4 or so pages that existed then, because of the font thing to register my annoyance.

Post 82 is Hayasaka explaining why she went the Cthylla-vote route rather than Isis-vote route. Once I figured out what she meant by OOG, I disagreed with that being a basis to discount an Isis vote under her theory, and was comfortable with keeping my vote where it is at this point.

This doesn't make sense
1. You RVS vote me for my font
2. Narset says Cythlla and Isis are scummy, but Isis is scummier because Nihonium has 115 atoms.
3. You have to figure out what Nihonium is and once you've clarified that part is invalid, so Cythlla and Isis remain equally good votes.
4. Later you are "happy with your vote"? Is that verbiage you would usually use to describe a vote you cast between 2 candidates with no way to differentiate them at all?

Correction:

I don't think that you consider that continually speculating *

- This isn't a freudian slip, I'm not native to english.

En la lengua espanol, el negativo doble significa negativo jajaja.

i change playstyle and gimmick across alts
sureness of reads are part of playstyle and i have plenty of town and scum games where i act very sure about reads
and also plenty where i act or am unsure about them

Etto.. actual read confidence is pretty key for trying to read people.
It's just a forum game but if this gets you misread sometimes because you make your read progressions harder to follow I hope you don't get mad about it.

this is a big part of the reason i secret alt btw
not because i have any meta tells - i don't think i do or no one's found one as far as i'm aware
but just because people see someone they've played with before acting differently from the previous game where that person was town, and assume that means they're scum

baddies gonna bad

Nobody is going to give a bad strategy to hurt town--neither town (obviously) or scum are motivated to openly suggest bad strategies.

This is kind of an incomplete view, actually, Bingle was obvscum in Fogport because he usually provides a lot of input on optimal mechanical play but only made token contributions because he was scum needing town to throw. Also I've openly suggested bad strategies when I was confident my work couldn't/wouldn't be checked in the proper way but admittedly that is extremely rare and a bit like stealing second base. Volxen and Elements also did it to win Undertale Semi-open and it was baller

why don't I look like Hectic?

You don't seem to be flowing naturally in your texts (my personal view).

clidd, Cythilla has referenced past games Hectic played with me, so either Cythlla is Hectic or Cythlla is one of very few players that spectates most or all game on the forum.

he can think you're wrong or show frustration as scum as well clidd

Yeah, I kind of feel like clidd is wrong here but I'm reading the way he's going about it as townish?

Hey Miss Hayasaka and Miss Isis, I would like to ask two questions:

1. what do you think about the suspicions on Word ?
2. by extension, what are your opinions on the AI ​​impression I got from G.C ? does it make sense ?

Word is scummier than rand, and as he hasn't followed up his entrance and Walter has been a little townish in his followup, Word is left the most likely scum straggler in this sort of category.
I think GC is scummy although the stuff he says about mechtalk being ok is true, about how as long as you still have other content you'll still be readable is true. But on a different axis, I think it's scummy in the sense that it's what he's excited proportional to other things going on. It suggests maybe he doesn't have any alignment mysteries to solve.
I agree with Cythlla that being emotional about the argument means little.
________________________________________________________________________________________

Walter and word shading me for posting offtopic, I enjoy doing that as both alignments >_>
I hate it, the more people police that, the more it becomes "the more you play mafia in a way that's less fun for you the more you can win", regardless of my alignment, and it sucks without actually being a good way of reading me.
The only times posting offtopic is remotely scum indicative is when it's used to mask a low amount of content, and paradoxically I am getting scumread by Narset, GC,

and word??

for having too much content!
pls
why

Isis is talkative, Hayasaka talked explicitely being talkative is a mark of scumsiness and shaded Isis by this
If they were scum together, one would expect Hayasaka to comunicate those kind of things on a PT

This doesn't actually make sense because accusing the most active players of being scum because they're active is a hipster take that rarely appears in games, so if Narset said nothing at all it's highly unlikely anyone would have suggested the concept all game. Also frustrating when I'm a top poster in basically all my games grumble but I think it's good faith because I've had scum partners in scum PTs say "what I think about this setup is we need to hit the ground running and get townread in this playerlist/setup". Not to my agreement

I have difficulty commenting on all points on an ongoing basis (it would be good if you fragmented, if possible, different subjects into more posts).

But in general I understood what you conveyed.

On the subject of GC, I found it suspicious the way he was approaching strategies because it is an easy method of looking busy (and I classify those posts as filler saying what should be done/how/why in terms of strat), but the feeling I had when I saw his reactions (along with the responses) during the discussion period gave me a strong impression that there was some feeling that I think was genuine anger there, which is what I cannot dismiss.

[clidd]

I agree about Word and he's not giving me the towny impression of Town!Word, as I said before in some post.

[clidd]

No, all my speculation is based on his towngames, so what I said about the Scum!G.C action line is imaginary.

If he has any scumgame in his profile, it's probably from years ago.

Going back to this, Norwegian, do you think what I said above is valid ?

I know that there is a greater margin of error when you don't have a scum game to compare, but I believe that the premise that each player tends to be colder in the scum alignment, by default, even if this difference is small, tends to be true.

The premise of scum being colder tends to be true for me sometimes, and considering GC’s personality he might be that type of person. I need to see more from the slot before i make up my mind on them though. I actually like Isis a bit more right now, i think their level of effort has been townie and unlikely for scum to do.

That's basically what I'm thinking, with more time and content from GC it will be possible to check if my impression is correct or not.

In relation to Isis, I am not convinced by the effort, but the fluency of tone seems good to me.

[clidd]

It is true that scum needs to look very town in this setup to endgame, but Isis’s way of going about it seems genuine. They’re free-spirited and talking about other things than the game, showing they don’t just care about being TR. But they’ve also got some decent content.

Clidd/Isis my current TR’s.

I don't think I've ever seen Town!Norwegian before, but from what I've seen from Scum!Norwegian, this TR early in my slot is a deviation from the standard of your scum-behavior towards me.

Which is a positive sign in this context.

[clidd]

Most people prefer collation but I'm more than happy to do multiposting. Some people complain about multiposting

I don't have the same energy as before to interpret large posts, so multiposting with different subjects is more understandable in my opinion.

[clidd]

Hayasaka can be a demon by PoE, I'm not townreading her.

[clidd]

Isis, what do you think about Hayasaka now ?

[clidd]

Isis seem towny I may have been pocketed by cat pics and need to reeval this slot later.

When I see that ^

These seem to be good takes and I did a reread of isis iso and my tr of dropped due to the how offtopic it got.

Going to this ^

It's a bad progression, but kind of give me a good impression about Walter because I don't think Scum!Walter would try to push Town!Isis here like that with bad reasons without detail or try to create a fake progression with more substantial motives. Town!Isis, from what he saw by effort and etc shouldn't look an easy target for Scum!Walter to push, so I imagine that he would only try that if he was confident that it would succeed.

[clidd]

She made one post that seemed townie but I don't have much. I townread you more than her

Hum.

[clidd]

Cth, what do you think about Isis and Hayasaka ?

[clidd]

Isis is very town if word flips scum, they're interactions don't look like SvS at all
if word flips town, she's a ~~~~~~~townlean~~~~~~~~
oh i should use the confidence metre:

Isis Confidence Metre

IGNORANT <<<<<<<<<<

o

>>>>>>>>>> OMNIESCIENT

i think she's been towny but there's one thing that she's been doing that could mean she's demonic
gonna keep that reason to myself for now and reveal it later ; )

Ok.

[clidd]

Hayasaka Ascension Metre

DEMONIC<<<<<<<<<<

o>>

>>>>>>>> TOWNY

Hayasaka Confidence Metre

IGNORANT <<<<<<<<

<<o

>>>>>>>>>> OMNIESCIENT

Narset entered in a towny way
leaving her vote on me while talking about demony things going on elsewhere may be a demonic disconnect
overall her tone is townish though
not a confident read

I don't think you are Hectic, but if you are, I feel that the effort you are putting into the Ascension/Confidence format is towny because of the interpretation that I am assimilating into the Hectic towngame.

Regarding the content, I feel that you create "I think this person is town but I have something that can change my opinion" windows that can function as a flexible path that you can take on the slot, which is an instance that I don't like about you.

[clidd]

I saw Word online earlier but he didn't post anything. Pretty sure this is going to flip scum☆

In every scumgame you say something like that before a scum flip.

[clidd]

But I do agree with you here, he's probably posting in the scum pt.

[clidd]

In fact, there was an occasion when you did that before a town flip.

viewtopic.php?p=11890559#p11890559

[clidd]

I know, but the way you express yourself sounds like that you can shape the read the way you want, regardless of what was said before.

I'm not saying it's scummy, but I just don't like it.

[clidd]

I liked the delay you had to react to that.

[clidd]

This will be probably the first towngame I'll see from you.

[clidd]

You.

I'm not sure about cth yet.

[clidd]

I know, but the way you express yourself sounds like that you can shape the read the way you want, regardless of what was said before.

I'm not saying it's scummy, but I just don't like it.

This was to cth ^

[clidd]

I liked the delay you had to react to that.

This was to you, Norwegian ^

[clidd]

I liked the delay you had to react to that.

I'm talking about your reaction to post 425.

I imagine that Scum!Norwegian would try to respond more quickly to give an impression of naturalness. Waiting could signal to me that you would be thinking about how to react (which I would read as scummy).

I don't think you would answer 429 before 425, in this context as scum.

[clidd]

Anyways, it's just an impression.

[clidd]

I'll take a break, back later.

[clidd]

Rest in peace, my friend.

[clidd]

Don't get me wrong it was likely I was going to vote him, but as soon as I saw I wasn't needed to achieve hammer I had an awful feeling while spamming F5.

VOTE: WalterTheDunce

I'd like to nominate someone who was off wagon, and I don't know how I feel about Crayons yet.

This premise seems superficial to me.

You're voting for someone for a VCA impression instead of your townread.

[clidd]

Basically what Isis said too.

[clidd]

Actually, I don't think I want to vote GC or Walter (I need to take a better look at them).

I'm between Norwegian and Isis.

[clidd]

I'm not understanding your point of view.

[clidd]

If you can rephrase the 457's explanation, I would appreciate.

[clidd]

I think the wagon occured at a very fast pace from the time word started to post seriously.
that indicates the lynch had multiple scum on it and wasn't a lynch scum looked at and went "We can keep our hands clean and let town do this for us".

But I remember word getting to E-1 before that, when I said that I wanted more votes on him.

[clidd]

Here: 244

[clidd]

I don't know.

Wanting Walter over Isis/Norwegian/etc isn't a good move if you're scum here.

[clidd]

It would be easier/safe to advertise something more basic, like voting for a townread. In this context, I think this is a positive sign about you.

But even so, I see Word as more likely to have been a common scumread, which make the number of towns in his wagon more significant.

[clidd]

In other words, the fact that you disagree with us is good, but what you propose does not seem good.

[clidd]

I don't have much experience with micro games, so I can't give a statistical opinion on E-1 and derivatives.

[clidd]

8 pages in 24 hours is silly. I'll have my work cut out for me in the morning, cup of coffee in hand.

Hum.

[clidd]

Means *thinking*.

I use it when I'm thinking about something or someone.

[clidd]

I don't have much to say now, my PoE is dependent on Dunn and GC posting.

[clidd]

?

[clidd]

I feel that Hayasaka and GC are living in a reverse world.

[clidd]

GC, I can't sympathize with anything you are said about me/Isis/Dann/Hayasaka.

[clidd]

I don't think makes sense from your pov me being scumlean instead of townlean.

Dann had a good fos on Word/you before the flip, but he's null now.

Hayasaka isn't the most "towny" here.

Actually, after a reread on Isis's walls, I got bad impressions too of those off-topic, but I don't think the slot is scum and her fast vote on me was towny (she was my mod in gacha mafia, and had impressions on how my towngame is, which is why is normal for her townreading me here).

[clidd]

So you agree that Cthylla is scum, Norwegian is lean town, and Walter is null?

Cth=scum, Norwegian=town and walter=null (I had a good impression about his fos on Isis, but he isn't posting much)

[clidd]

The thing is: I had an impression that you were town after our 1v1, but you just disappeared after that and now came back with a scumlean on me.

I would have perfect reasons to have a scumread on you, but I'm trying to understand if that extreme difference in thinking is still on your town-range.

[clidd]

Yes, Isis had reasons to townread me and her fast vote today was an example or that.

I'm using bad reasons like

"oh, her number of posts is getting closer to me, so she's more town than not because I post more as town"

too, but the main reason is meta.

[clidd]

Also, you throwing shade for me NOT reciprocating your tvt read from our 1v1 coincides with my suspicion of you for targeting me in the 1v1

Yes, if i think that the normal for town!you was agree and you disagree, I can see you as scum. That's how I work.

[clidd]

Well then you should understand my Isis read because I don’t think those are compelling town points and I’m always skeptical of meta.

I can think about it.

[clidd]

Also, you throwing shade for me NOT reciprocating your tvt read from our 1v1 coincides with my suspicion of you for targeting me in the 1v1

Yes, if i think that the normal for town!you was agree and you disagree, I can see you as scum. That's how I work.

Is this too scummy to be scum?

No, the premise I'm using is to imagine what you would think/do as town.

[clidd]

Do you want to be heavened, clidd?

If I don't trust anymore Isis/Norwegian, yes.

[clidd]

In doubt I'll always want to go to heaven.

But having someone that I trust(town) to send there, I can stay here and help solving.

[clidd]

I'm having a hard time understanding why you/Hayasaka are thinking similar and me/Norwegian/Isis are not thinking the same as you two.

If we're all town, we should understand in some way each other.

[clidd]

[clidd]

Because she's thinking differently and I can't see how she thinks Dann is the best option in the context of his activity and other options. GC fits in the same world.

[clidd]

These differences in perspective are confusing me.

[clidd]

I need to know if you're kidding or not about your guessing skilz.
Cause uh my readrate is etto really bad on Hectic right now, like really bad, and I would kind of like to policy heaven that.

if it means you'll policy heaven me then i am obviously Hectic friend : )

Historically towns playing this setup that have heavened scum early have won, so you shouldn't be smiley if you're town. That's what I was part of last time.

Does this mean I actually finished a game without you playing in it or spectating it, Hectic?

Personally I wish to be heavened early or late or at some point really.
My quest for power consumes me.

I didn't see this post.

But if we start from the point that she knows the premise you mentioned, GC, mentioning the desire to go to heaven could be falsified.

Another point is that she is an alternative account, so we don't know how much experience she has. She could have already seen games with the same theme taking place and absorbed the characteristics of the players who were normally sent to heaven.

[clidd]

Also, you throwing shade for me NOT reciprocating your tvt read from our 1v1 coincides with my suspicion of you for targeting me in the 1v1

Yes, if i think that the normal for town!you was agree and you disagree, I can see you as scum. That's how I work.

Is this too scummy to be scum?

No, the premise I'm using is to imagine what you would think/do as town.

Seems to me that you’re holding hostage your alignment reading of my slot based of whether I reciprocate your town read on me. If I reciprocate and call you town, then you’ll say I’m town. But if I dont play ball, and suggest you’re scum, then I don’t get called town.

I don't know how to explain it to you.

[clidd]

Because she's thinking differently and I can't see how she thinks Dann is the best option in the context of his activity and other options. GC fits in the same world.

Do you think I am not trying to be critical of my own reads?
I don't know we just disagree and we can't really say which one of us is right until the post game. Feels like a weird way to attack the idea that we disagree rather then the points themselves being brought up.

I think that you're trolling in your reads.

If we're disagreeing like that, I don't think it's natural if everyone on this is town. That is my impression.

[clidd]

An example of how my thinking works:

viewtopic.php?p=12043695#p12043695

Both scums had me as scumread and the remaining two towns had me as townread.

By imagining what kind of impressions each player would have on me, at that time, I concluded that anyone who had me as a scumread would be acting in bad faith and whoever had me as a townread would have reasons for that, which would reinforce the idea of ​​them being town.

[clidd]

I don’t disagree with the second of those possibilities, but just because it’s possible in theory doesn’t mean it’s correct here. For example, maybe she has no experience with this game type. (Haya, care to share?)

As for the first point, it’s not a matter of does she really want to go to heaven or not. (I agree if she’s lying about it then she’s probably scum because no reason for town to lie. But there’s no way to ever figure out whether she’s lying.) the point is that she’s made her stand about what she does want to happen. That reduces her flexibility to change her position later on. That’s why I see it as more likely town.

Makes sense.

[clidd]

It doesn't work always, but I try to work with what I have. It's part of my playstyle.

[clidd]

And here I'm trying to see if makes sense for you to scumreading me or townread Hayasaka.

From what you said, makes sense for you to townread Hayasaka now, but it doesn't make sense for you to not townread me and maybe the intensity with which you think Hayasaka is town isn't normal.

[clidd]

And it definitely doesn't make sense that you think about sending Dann to heaven with little current content from him.

It would be more normal if you waited for him to post before doing your conclusion.

[clidd]

We didn't get a reaction from him on word being send to hell and flipping town.

[clidd]

But, again, this line of action doesn't make sense for scum!You, because it has no benefit whatsoever.

You trying to enter 1v1 with me is harmful to you, because I have more support than you. So the conclusion of the moment is that you are more likely town with different thoughts (which I haven't fully understood yet), than scum acting super sporadically out of what I would imagine scum!you would do.

[clidd]

Nope. Dann has been open and provided clear insight in terms of his GC, Word, and Walter reads. Just because he's wrong doesn't mean he's scum. His playing is straightforward and clear to understand (just like Haya I might add).

I'd like more Dann posts to settle into a solid town read, but he's a good vote rn at the beginning of heaven phase.

I agree that he had good pov about Word/you, but I don't see he as a solid townread.

[clidd]

i was going to wait for Dann to post, but since you bring up Norwegian's point:

it's a bad point. A reaction post to a flip is not going to be AI.

It was a good point to me, I don't think I ever played with Town!Norwegian, so I'm kind of used to her scumgame.

But yes, I don't think I can show that as a good reason to anyone that he's town.

[clidd]

I think that you're trolling in your reads.

If we're disagreeing like that, I don't think it's natural if everyone on this is town. That is my impression.

I mean my hesitation on the word lynch was warranted as we can see.
I feel like the general accepted idea this game is that everything is incredibly easy and while I think your paranoia throughout this exchange is making me think you are town.
That suddenly doesn't put any more weight into your reads nor does it change the fact that almost 50% of the living players aren't actually town.

I wouldn't say I think GC is town but I am certainly not resolved in saying he is scum or even leaning that way.

Hum. I see.

[clidd]

I think I'm trolling too.

I thought we were dealing with 2 scums (9p setup is 2 scum to me).

[clidd]

I don't know..

Nothing I thought/reasoned so far was anticipating that there would be 3 scums.

[clidd]

Rookie mistake.

[clidd]

I need a break, back later.

[clidd]

I'm back.

[clidd]

Ok, I’m less sure of Isis and I’m seeing GC and Hayasaka as town. I still think I'm right about Norwergian.

[clidd]

My PoE of angels based on the info of 3 scums instead of 2:

(Me, GC, Hayasaka, Norwergian).

I'm trying to see if I'm right or wrong:

Isis.

Null:

Dann, Walter.

Closer of being demon:

Cth

[clidd]

I had a good impression about Walter being town based on his change of read on Isis, which looked as a bad push for Scum!him to do without having good reasons, but the way he's posting seems pretty null to me.

I need more impressions of him before doing any conclusion.

[clidd]

And I had a good impression about Dann having that pov about Word/GC early, but he's null right because: he's not posting, didn't react to word flip, didn't say if he agree with word going to hell, and etc.

I need more of him.

[clidd]

And Cth basically didn't do anything that I can look and say '

'wait, i can't imagine scum!him doing it''

or

''i can only imagine town!him doing it''

.

The only good impression was his roleplaying (if he's hectic), which isn't enough.

[clidd]

Maybe we should send GC, I don't think I'll work well with him. We were fighting for a long time.

[clidd]

And there is a really-really-really small chance that I'm wrong about you, but I don't see I being wrong on GC.

[clidd]

not seeing how anyone doesn't read Haya's past couple of pages of posts as not obvtown

I don't see scum!GC doing this post too ^

[clidd]

Isis can be town, like I said, but now that I see you and GC as town, I feel something strange on my read about her.

[clidd]

VOTE: GreenCrayon

[clidd]

I think this is the correct choice ^

I would like opinions from Norwegian, Walter, and (of course) Isis on this.

[clidd]

Cth, I'm open you see your opinion too. If you aren't demon, you need to show me.

[clidd]

Actually, I'll wait for people to post. But I have a mental vote on GC.

UNVOTE: GreenCrayon

[clidd]

flashbacks to the game I was scum which included Ame and Doro, and your townread on me because I made a typo while energetically arguing with Ame

I don't think you would know that without being Hectic or Ame (Dsj doesn't create alts).

[clidd]

But Ame doesn't do the same roleplay as you, so I'll kind of accept that you told the truth and is Hectic.

[clidd]

Ok, Hectic. From what I understand from your text, you are trying to give me the view that you can see that I am town and also see that I am wrong about you.

The problem is that as much as it is true what you said (about scum!You know how to trick me into having a townread on you), I really didn't feel anything that told me that you are town, and that's crucial to me.

[clidd]

I know that naturally you cannot convey this to me, but I need some way to feel, in fact, that you are not lying to me about your alignment.

Something that I see and know that you are coming from a town mentality.

[clidd]

Another point is that if you are not a demon, I have to be wrong on some player in my PoE of angels. If I just add you, there's still Dann, Walter and Isis left, who would theoretically be the scumteam if I keep my current PoE (a trio I don't see being the correctly solve).

[clidd]

And if I'm wrong, I don't think it's GC, so you would need to help me find who's the demon I'm townreading. That's the correct move that I imagine myself doing in your place, if I wanted to help.

[clidd]

But, again, I currently think you are the most likely to be a demon. What I'm saying is just a hunch that I imagine working in the scenario where I'm wrong.

[clidd]

I'll try my best to show you my towny heart tomorrow, clidd, just you wait
for now, I am calling it a night
I want to have a mafia dream
Ame is always talking about having those, where the players take material forms and I'm jealous
wish me luck

Did you try to tell me something here ? I didn't understand the message.

[clidd]

I don't think GC had any scumgames this year. And his 1v1 wth me/his reasoning similar to Hayasaka doesn't make sense if he's scum.

He also has a different game vision than mine, so I can imagine (now) town!him not townreading me.

[clidd]

And thinking about it again, if he's good as scum, he knows that it would make more sense for scum!him to townread me and have generic/common targets to choose (heaven).

Besides that, I have more support from players than he has, so he couldn't push me as scum, but I can push and send him to hell, which is another reason for townreading me as scum.

[clidd]

Well, I opened the thread again and have to reply to this
I don't see getting mishelled as a failure, it is all in good fun and the concept of mafia relies on town getting demonread and purged by other town or it wouldn't work
I'm not normally under this much suspicion though, especially so early on, so naturally I was thinking about reasons for it
My writing style might be one, since some pointed out that it appeared as fake or forced
If that's the case, I'm not going to be volunteerily using it again, because even if getting mishelled every so often is fine, it's had for your wincon and playing the game for longer is more fun, so it is something on my mind

You keep giving me the impression that your point of view is coming from someone wrongly accused, but as I said, I still haven't seen the signs that I want.

[clidd]

Dann has hardly been able to play the game so heavening him makes no sense to me

This is true and basically common sense, in general.

But because it is common sense to not have him as a priority to heaven, I feel that this gives more +town points for Hayasaka and GC, as they had a thought outside the standard curve that I imagine scum probably would not follow to try to keep their opinions healthy publicly.

[clidd]

That's all, I'll take a break.

My opinion on GC going to heaven probably isn't going to change, unless I have a radical change in perspective.

[clidd]

If I go to Heaven, I won't be able to help in the hell phase and I believe that I have conviction of GC being town for the reasons I mentioned.

And with we being right on GC being angel, solve will be better tomorrow because we are more sure on me than we are on GC, which means a better PoE with me here instead of heaven.

[clidd]

I like Isis's last posts but I still more sure on GC than her.

By the way, it would be good if GC posts today. I want to see his last reads/pov/reaction/etc.

[clidd]

What are your impressions on the players in general ?

[clidd]

It’s very weird that after the thread either collectively suspected me or shrugged their shoulders at me, there is a bunch of “yeah GC is town enough to be heavened” posts. That doesn’t seem natural to me which makes me think my reads are on to something.

Actually, I think you should know the reason people are willing to send you to heaven.

[clidd]

Ok, thanks GC.

I think you're the only player at the moment who doesn't see me as town and that's a point outside the curve in my view (in a good way), which is why you're the most likely angel here. It is suicide for you to have this line of thought as a demon.

[clidd]

It isn't a good/correct pov, but it's more likely coming from a personal genuine reasoning than not.

[clidd]

In relation to the other reads, I can see how you got there.

Pedit: jesus.

[clidd]

You're considering that Hayasaka is wrong town then ?

[clidd]

It seems to me that you're shading people more than trying to solve.

[clidd]

Ok, do you have anything more to say GC ? You're going to heaven today.

[clidd]

I'm confused with Hectic this game.

[clidd]

I'll take a break, back later.

[clidd]

I'm back.

[clidd]

Hum.

[clidd]

I think we should wait more before doing the votes.

There might be people who want to talk but don't have time today (Sunday), but have tomorrow.

[clidd]

We more Dann and GC too.

[clidd]

And Hayasaka could help on this.

[clidd]

It is very difficult for me to reconcile so many opinions with my own impressions.

Activates my paranoia.

Pedit: Ok.

[clidd]

I am just going to throw this out there but I don't think it means anything. But you have many posts that read somewhere along the lines of "I am waiting for X to post". Without a specific request within those posts. I like marking things like this because when I end up sending you to heaven I like knowing I fucked up while seeing something odd.

That's how I play.

If people post, I can know what they are thinking, and by that I can feel if I'm right on townreading/scumreading that person.

[clidd]

It's getting to a point where I need to read GC's mind to see if he's trolling or not.

[clidd]

I'll take a break, back later.

[clidd]

I'm back.

[clidd]

GC doesn't seem like a very healthy person in the sense of

"there are people who want me to go to heaven, so I'm going to collaborate with my reads".

What makes me feel insecure about the certainty that I was placing on him being town based on the behavioral premises that I mentioned and the imaginary lines of conduct for Scum! GC to take into play.

Even with him going to heaven and being mechanically proven to be town, I feel that I can't be confident that he would make the right decision if a possible judgment day occur, speculating by the way he is currently seeing me and interpreting some things .

[clidd]

But, I still find plausible that he is more town than scum, although I am not so confident in making it possible for him to go to heaven anymore.

[clidd]

It crossed my mind a few times the idea of ​​simply exempting myself from the cognitive effort and the stress of distinguishing what is coming from town/scum/troll-town/troll-scum and agreeing to go to heaven, but that would be being negligent with what I imagine to be the most beneficial course of action for my slot to influence the game (aside from the fact that losing the power to post on the main topic is basically being a passive observer, which is also not in my interest).

[clidd]

Regarding Dann, he gave good impressions by pointing out the remarks in Word/GC (not the first time I mention this) but the way he was seen as a townread was more relevant than he should be.

And currently nothing he posted has given me the feeling that he should be one of the priorities of going to heaven, so it's not a healthy option.

[clidd]

Looking at the current Norwegian, I had no additional impressions to expand the read I had obtained when he reacted to my quote from his scumgame (which I interpreted as towny because of the timing).

I liked the way he is able to reconsider some points, as well as the collaboration, but I still haven't met the criteria I expected and didn't reach a level where I could stop and say

"I have no doubt that he is an angel"

, which disqualifies him as a choice to go to heaven in my opinion.

[clidd]

I feel that Walter is more towny because of his recent post, but he also didn’t reach a safety margin for indication to heaven.

Cth has given me some doubts, mostly linked to paranoia, which makes me feel uncomfortable. But by comparative terms, there is no hypothesis or world where he goes to heaven today.

[clidd]

This leaves me with Hayasaka and Isis, which at the moment is making me more inclined towards Isis because of the indirect connection Hayasaka has with GC.

[clidd]

Actually, I remember seeing Hayasaka as town because of the similarity of her opinion to yours, GC.

Maybe I shouldn't put Hayasaka bellow Isis.

[clidd]

GC doesn't seem like a very healthy person in the sense of "there are people who want me to go to heaven, so I'm going to collaborate with my reads".

I love ESL (no sarcasm) because this reads like you’re saying I’m mentally unwell.

Which. Fair.

I’m suspicious of folks who are pushing for me to heaven after I’ve called them not town for what I think are good reasons. Of course I’m not trying to collaborate with them. I am open to hearing what Dann and Haya think.

It was not my intention.

I meant that you don't seem very good in the sense of ideas, because they are very different from mine and etc.

[clidd]

And I think you're overthinking things that you shoudn't have to overthink.

Like thinking that me or Dann is scum because Cth said something.

[clidd]

I don't see you as scum because of that, but I don't see we working together here.

[clidd]

We'll probably do Isis or Hayasaka today.

[clidd]

That's all, I don't have more to say. I feel that I will be more inclined to one side or the other depending on what they (Isis/Hayasaki) post.

[clidd]

Isis, Dannflor are you 2 town? We can play like the dance game again and be an unstoppable force. That was a fun game.

[clidd]

We aren't doing GC.