Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[Anastasia]

I am very happy I opened my role PM and it is wonderfully green!

[Anastasia]

I read the setup briefly and it seems if we get all of the bad people to sign up for the same location we shall win immediately.

Seeing as they are probably not so stupid as to do that, perhaps we should try quickly putting all the good people into two locations and then the bad people will be stuck going to the last location?

[Anastasia]

I am very happy I opened my role PM and it is wonderfully green!

I scumread this post. :/

I am sad that you are either wrong or scum and I shall endeavor to figure out which.

[Anastasia]

Having a UTR decide who goes where should increase our odds of winning (of forcing someone to scumclaim by not following the plan) right?

Yes, I believe so.

The issue with this plan is that by removing agency from players you make it easier for the bad ones to hide.

I do think there should be some accountability - however lol-locating might actually be good if our initial instincts are correct.

I think of this somewhat like a dance game where you are dancing with three instead of two.

With that said, I am looking for two wonderfully townie players to share a lovely evening under the stars with me.

I would like them to be so obviously town that I have no doubt in my heart that I can trust them.

[Anastasia]

Two scummy posts in a row. I'm not really anxious to wind up in a day 1 tunnel, but I suppose it could be worse.

I think your mindset might be wrong for how you are approaching this game.

Rather than finding those who you can trust, you are trying to spread suspicion.

I'm unsure if this is scum motivated for now.

[Anastasia]

Seeing as they are probably not so stupid as to do that, perhaps we should try quickly putting all the good people into two locations and then the bad people will be stuck going to the last location?

Using the the locations as a one-shot scumteam guess is... a thing we could do, but probably not the most efficient use of it given that the odds of actually getting it right are so low.

You misunderstand me,

I think the best way is to have groups of three who mutually townread each other.

For example if I trust you and unwnd, and you and unwnd also trust me and each other, we could all go to the Wall together. If all three of us are town and the other group of three townies also find each other successfully, it would be a win.

I know the odds are not great but it is a dream for me.

[Anastasia]

You misunderstand me

I don't think so? You're saying that we can try to force all three scum to be at the same location. We can try, but we'll almost certainly fail.

True but the activity of doing so will give us a decent amount of information

[Anastasia]

On one hand if unwnd/briar are both scum we have no chance of getting the d1 win.

On the other hand they don't feel particularly scummy for me yet.

I guess I can just hope they are town.

[Anastasia]

sure Absinthe but if she's not easy to read by the time the voting comes around she will not be voted the Keep Representative so why would it matter?

[Anastasia]

I like Briar

She exudes such positive joyful energy.

I will be sad if she were not town here.

[Anastasia]

Unwnd are you writing what you think or thinking about what to write?

[Anastasia]

sure Absinthe but if she's not easy to read by the time the voting comes around she will not be voted the Keep Representative so why would it matter?

Because we could wind up with 3 hard to read players in the Keep if people just jump in there without establishing themselves in the game first.

I think scum would probably like that.

The hard to reads have to go somewhere dear.

[Anastasia]

Briar I think Unwnd has given us the cold shoulder because his heart may not be pure

this is tragic and I'm starting to cry a little inside.

[Anastasia]

Unwnd are you writing what you think or thinking about what to write?

I'm trying not to apply a filter this game, I think activity/social ability is really crucial this game because each minigame is pretty much a XYLO where you need to be cognizant of the people you're with

Will we not get to decide collectively at each mini game?

I did not read the rules that carefully.

[Anastasia]

Please don't call me dear.

Apologies

[Anastasia]

I don't understand what I've done to garner attention besides post a lot

But that's against the point

It's probably your strong charisma that has us all fawning over you making goo-goo eyes like besotted schoolgirls.

[Anastasia]

I think the point is more that it's probably objectively the Worst to send the hard to reads to the Keep because if they're all like, in that place where scum end up a lot of null-town/townleany it's a fucking headache to deal with.

Well if you become as blazingly townie as you promise, then it would make sense to send the scummy/nully people to the keep with you right?

[Anastasia]

Briar I think Unwnd has given us the cold shoulder because his heart may not be pure

this is tragic and I'm starting to cry a little inside.

Unwnd are you writing what you think or thinking about what to write?

Assuming this is why you're thinking that? Explain please.

It feels like he's thinking of what to say instead of just reacting in the moment and I feel a shadow there.

[Anastasia]

(I can tone it down if it really is too much but this just who I am.)

I think it's important to be true to who you are <3

[Anastasia]

Day 2 is played as 3 concurrent minigames at each location, although all nine players may still share the game thread and submit their votes there. It uses the following rules:

[Anastasia]

So we will have the benefit of collective decision making for each mini game.

Also we will have an IC chosen by the Mafia to help "guide" us.

[Anastasia]

Mm.

I would feel a little bad genuinely if it was because unwnd was overwhelmed by how like, I guess, weird I am acting towards him as a 'stranger'. Did you feel like his posting had that quality before or after I arrived in thread?

He didn't have the need to react to anything earlier.

[Anastasia]

Your assumption isn't wrong, but that is far more telling in the opposite direction of how you're preemptively reading me, in terms of self-bias

I want you to be town unwnd - I hope you are!

[Anastasia]

I am townreading Briar but I don't know what her read on me is.

[Anastasia]

perhaps



I re-read the first page and I am concerned about your reaction to Absinthe

[Anastasia]

Hello!

Wall > Gate > Keep is my preference

Keep > Gate > Wall for me

You're confident you can towntell? Or that you don't want to be in a 3-way with me

Either one is cool

I don't like this post.

[Anastasia]

She seemed warm to you, mentioning that you seem to understand her. I felt a lot of emotional resonance between you two

I do too, regarding the resonance. It doesn't feel particularly anchored to gamethreadstuff.

I assure you that our only interactions are in this game thread.

[Anastasia]

The possibility that this is not the case has crossed my mind, but mainly the emotional content just doesn't feel this-game-related.

Which is confusing.

Why is it confusing for two people to vibe?

[Anastasia]

I think what's going on right now (despite being apart of it) is that you have different players who appreciate different things. When it came to absin, I gave her a loaded question because I wanted to engage an unknown. To my surprise, absin was actually quite known and perked me up a bit. My question to you Ana is why the means of which me/absin had conversation vastly telling to how you/Briar did?

Your question confuses me.

You do understand I know I'm town right?

[Anastasia]

think about it.

I enjoy finding town-reads by vibing with people.

It is fun for me.

[Anastasia]

And I know I said I would try to tone it down some but this is sort of just my personality and the lens I view this game through, I guess you could say character but that's not quite right, and trying not to be this sort of person just ends up hamstringing my ability to play. Which uh, sucks if people think it's detrimental but meh, what can I do.

I think the way you play is perfectly fine and if anyone thinks its inappropriate or rises to the level of cheating they can make their complaints privately to the moderation staff.

[Anastasia]

Some recent games I have indeed been a bit of a prick. It wasn't intentional on my part but I get really tilted by some things. One of them is how I want the game to played, which usually contrasts with how it's played. My understanding of You/Ana right now is that you're social players and feed off the energy of the room, while not getting caught up in details. I think that behavior is the most easily faked and something that is harder to read because of it.

Ok but do you think we are scum trying to pretend to be town?

Your explanation is pedantic without substance.

If you think our behavior is NAI I don't see the point of pretending you are very bothered by it.

[Anastasia]

And you understand I am as well? My point was that we see the game differently and want different things out of it. If I'm being blunt I'm not further to determining your alignment after what happened with you/Briar.

It's fine for you to not give me or Briar alignment points one way or the other - but it has nothing to do with why I found your response to Absinthe scummy.

[Anastasia]

I think that if you're scum you're going to play up your best traits in order to be townread

If you're town, those should come naturally?

None of this explains why you don't want me and Briar to have fun vibing.

If you think what we are doing is fake-able, then it's NAI behavior and not really important to the game - your mood should be indifference.

If you think what we are doing is scum theater, your mood should be suspicion.

Instead I'd say your mood is that of being "annoyed" - which fits well into the mindset of a scum who is upset that town players are giving each other townreads off NAI content as it tips the balance of the setup.

[Anastasia]

I think as it stands I think I'd like to see how the room feels about these interactions before I come to my own conclusion

Right now I would give you benefit of the doubt however Briar purely in terms of your openness. I don't know what Ana exactly wants from me but I'm sure we can figure it out.

This is just so suspicious to me.

Why would your reaction to our interaction be colored by what the rest of the room feels?

Your reaction should be thoughts you have...

It's almost as if you are testing the waters because you are unsure if you should commit here.

[Anastasia]

and I'll be honest I'm very disappointed in your choice of where to go.

I think Town!Unwnd would've gone to Gate.

[Anastasia]

The approach isn't what is scummy to me - it's the emotional undertone I'm reading in the post and how it doesn't match up with the mindset.

[Anastasia]

The approach isn't what is scummy to me - it's the emotional undertone I'm reading in the post and how it doesn't match up with the mindset.

I try really hard to not let my emotions guide my decisions. Do you think that's foolish of me?

I think it's fine for you to NAI-bin all of the emotional interactions in the game but it wouldn't explain why your post feels like you disapprove.

[Anastasia]

I liked Absin's mentality early and was willing to give it a pass.

She's one of the best scum players on the site. I would not trust her anywhere near the Keep.

Your reaction to her self-meta of towntelling easily gave me chills.

[Anastasia]

I think you (Ana) are very sensitive to my alignment and want to figure out what it is, so you're picking through my logic and trying to find inconsistencies. I don't think the notion is scummy and I want to believe it's in best interest.

I try to solve the important people first.

Do you think I'm faking my solving of your alignment?

[Anastasia]

I'm not sure yet, could you get back to me on the other stance I provided re: Absin/Me being scum together?

I have more suspicion of your slot than her slot.

Maybe it's because you've done more things in general and I'm tunneled.

I struggle with that sometimes.

[Anastasia]

okay the anime avis are starting to get to me ngl

This is ironic because your avatar is also anime <3

[Anastasia]

So the feeling you had previously to her scumreading you was fleeting then? It seems you dictate your thoughts based on how people treat you.

?

I don't understand.

[Anastasia]

I don't call her scum in either post...

[Anastasia]

I think there's a real risk to the scum to get run over if the town vibes together correctly in a lol-manner right at the beginning.

I have seen it happen multiple times.

That's why I'm suspicious of people who hard-nip it in the bud.

[Anastasia]

you still haven't explained why you liked Absinthe's statement that she could town-tell confidently when you have seen her absolutely murder a town solo by herself as scum.

[Anastasia]

I liked her early impressions, wasn't specifically a statement. Hence I said 'mentality'

I wish to just let be things how they are for right now

It is rare for a scum to have the ability to be the most townread person in a game - most good scum excel at hiding or pushing through a mis-elim etc.

Absinthe is one of the few scum who are good at being townread while scum.

She is absolutely the most dangerous person to put in the Keep.

I think you know this, so that's why your reaction to her statement just doesn't make sense for me.

[Anastasia]

My last thought on this topic is that

I don't think it's right to tinfoil a competent player early. All you're doing is making them less approachable to others and in turn maybe even irritated. That seems especially true for absin right now, as the conversation has been more about her instead of you know, towards her. Does that make sense? I'm going to believe that if absin is doing things I agree with then well, they're just that. At least for now.

I'm not saying we shouldn't trust Absin because she's a good scum player.

I'm saying we shouldn't put her in the Keep.

It's not the same thing.

[Anastasia]

I don't think you give yourself enough credit for how you dismembered that town.

[Anastasia]

That seems like a fake thought.

It'd be pretty simple for town you to slot me into the Keep since I townread Briar to begin with.

[Anastasia]

Don't we want scumreads at the gate so we can force scum to conftown them? We might want one at the wall too to make the wall guardians' lives easier

I actually think we should get all town leaders at the Gate so we get an IC that we can all count on - but I will have to think about your plan.

[Anastasia]

You got away with it because you were town read by enough townies that you were never really in danger at any point during the entirety of the game.

It means you can be town read as scum - hence why I don't think he should've taken your offer of town telling at face-value.

[Anastasia]

Don't forget that mafia can perform a swap

I like this

[Anastasia]

He is blunt about the way he states it, it has no undertones of being said for towncred.

[Anastasia]

How would one say that with said undertones?

I think it would have more meaningless mech attached if he wanted to make it look wordy for towncred.

[Anastasia]

It's basically a meme that I give out easy townreads during the first few pages of a game. It's very rare for me to get a scumread that quickly. So rare that I'm not even sure what my accuracy rate is. I have no idea who anastasia is, but she's obviously familiar enough with me to string together some exaggerations that don't look too off base to players who don't have a lot of with me.

You keep saying this as if I am trying to harm you in some way.

I haven't done anything of the sort - I simply do not want to bet the Keep Mini Game on your slot.

It's not even a condemnation of your play or a scum-read on you.

Some players are easier to town-read accurately than others are.

You stating that you could town-tell adequately to be the Keep Chosen should not have been accepted by unwnd at face value

because he's literally seen you dismantle an entire town solo by yourself almost.

You can't run away from who you are.

[Anastasia]

In my last scum game, which was abandoned by the mod, I was probably getting day-1 elimmed, which would have lost the game for my team.

There were enough people townreading your slot in that game that you were unlikely to be eliminated.

You are very good at getting enough people to believe the lie.

[Anastasia]

I think it would have more meaningless mech attached if he wanted to make it look wordy for towncred.

Why would saying meaningless things get him towncred?

It's something scum are comfortable doing

[Anastasia]

But scum are not comfortable stating facts about the setup without adding fluff?

Can you make your point so I don't have to waste too many posts on this pedantic back and forth?

[Anastasia]

My point is that your townread on Dunnstral is nonsense and he would say the same thing regardless of alignment, but that's not why I was pressing you... I wanted to understand your thought process to see if I thought it was genuine.

I liked the way he stated it because didn't have any performative nonsense added to it - I wouldn't say it's a townread.

[Anastasia]

Also (@Ana), that sounds like a response from someone who's played with me before (and is in all likelihood not too fond of my playstyle). Is that intuition accurate?

You're definitely missing the point if you think that all that questioning is just so I could state a conclusion at the end. If that's all I wanted to do, I could do it without the back-and-forth.

I don't want the the thread to be unreadable and I have nothing against your playstyle. Any exchange that goes over ten posts is likely to be ignored and mostly a waste of time.

[Anastasia]

I do think you're trying to harm me.

How?

All I said about you was that I wouldn't trust you to be the Keep representative.

What's wrong with that even if you are town? There's five other townies who can represent the Keep.

If Bell was in this game and he had definitively town-told, would you want to be the rep instead of him?

[Anastasia]

I was resigned to being the game-losing miselim and felt terrible for my scumteam. I was indescribably relieved that the game was abandoned.

You're spending a lot of time discrediting me and building me up into a scary monster.

And not very much time trying to figure me out.

I don't think you need to figure me out.

It wasn't even about you...

I was talking to unwnd about how I don't think he should've accepted your statement about town-telling at face value since he's seen you wreck a town before as a scum.

I was trying to figure out unwnd's thought process on why he just accepted it.

I haven't even made a statement this game about you being scum as far as I remember?

[Anastasia]

You wrote a bunch of bloviating exaggerations about my scum game. That and the tone is scaremongering. This doesn't just affect where I decide to vote myself. It impacts other players trying to read me and it's well-poisoning.

Your posts reek of manipulation.

Seems a bit harsh.

I am sorry you feel that way.

[Anastasia]

In the post that I'm responding to?

You say I am "discrediting you and building you up into a scary monster."

I didn't even call you scum so I don't know where you're getting that from.

[Anastasia]

I think you've revealed your alignment.

I did reveal it in my first post.

[Anastasia]

I think you're being incredibly mean to someone who thinks the world of you for no good reason.

If you're town you should at least consider my point of view instead of lacing into me with these words because you will regret them.

[Anastasia]

I guess I do kind of think you are town now because of the incredibly cruel way you are treating me.

I'm not sure you're capable of doing this as scum.

I guess I will learn something new this game.

[Anastasia]

I think what I'm trying to say is I will be even more impressed with your scum play than I already am if you actually do flip scum here.

But I do think you're town now.

and no I never tried to make you into a monster - that was all in your head.

[Anastasia]

I'm not opposed to you being in the Keep anymore.

[Anastasia]

I think you've crossed out of your scum range with how you've treated me this game and I'm fine with you being in the Keep.

[Anastasia]

I keep pointing out your inaccuracies about my scumgame and you keep doubling down. That is a discredit.

Calling you a good player is not discrediting you.

[Anastasia]

If this is how you genuinely feel, then the feeling is mutual, and you are going to have some regrets, too. Even if I come to a townread somehow down the road, given what you've already put in the thread about me there's very little chance I could give your opinions any weight.

I have no regrets because I don't think I've said anything about you that is untrue.

Maybe you don't think you are that good of a scum player, but I think you are.

[Anastasia]

I'm fine having the keep group be anchored by Briar-Absinthe and then voting one of them as the rep.

[Anastasia]

If you do not trust me so much I'm even willing to go to keep with them so I can die immediately.

[Anastasia]

@Absinthe would you like to come to the Keep with me and Briar?

I promise I will vote for you if we are both in the Keep at the mini game stage.

[Anastasia]

@Absinthe would you like to come to the Keep with me and Briar?

I promise I will vote for you if we are both in the Keep at the mini game stage.

[Anastasia]

I want some time to think about the game and players holistically.

I just want to get 2 townreads of mine into keep with me and I can exit the game

you said originally you wanted to go to keep and town tell.

I think our interests are aligned.

[Anastasia]

My jealousy is like a stormy sea as I had joined this game with hopes of seducing unwnd but it seems his heart has been taken by another.

[Anastasia]

My jealousy is like a stormy sea as I had joined this game with hopes of seducing unwnd but it seems his heart has been taken by another.

You tried to kill me! Or suggesting you'd be fine with killing me

You both seem like good people and I'm enjoying myself, though I didn't expect to garner this type of attention

We're not really at the killing part of the game yet, I just wanted to figure out if I could trust you with my heart <3

[Anastasia]

It's possibly just because he is so charismatic.

[Anastasia]

Briar who do you want to put in the Keep with you as a backup?

[Anastasia]

I don't think that was clear from her post at all.

Ideally I want to put two UTRs in the keep to guarantee a win there.

[Anastasia]

I don't think that was clear from her post at all.

Ideally I want to put two UTRs in the keep to guarantee a win there.

Now I am curious, how are you reading me?

I like your content so far but I'd be more comfortable with absinthe.

[Anastasia]

I'd like to resolve Keep first - on a purely probability basis it is the likeliest to resolve correctly for the town and the scum flip out of Keep will be useful for solving the other two mini games.

Also it would give the opinions of two confirmed town players to go with the IC.

[Anastasia]

yes

[Anastasia]

I felt the level of vitriol and tilt in her comments towards me were outside her scumrange essentially.

She felt genuinely very upset at me.

[Anastasia]

I believe Absinthe/Me/You are all town.

So the scum would have to sub one of us out and put a scum in keep if they get 2-1 in the other 2 areas.

its very unlikely imo that the keep group can stay at me-absi-you, but if it does i'll deal with that situation when it comes up.

[Anastasia]

I don't have anything solid but if you wanted my GTH guess it'd be something like unwnd ss infinity

[Anastasia]

infinity is gut feeling - she doesn't feel as transparently townie as I'd think she'd be if she were town.

It could be a motivation thing.


SS feels like he's going through the motions a bit - I don't think he really believes where he is driving to.

[Anastasia]

I don't have anything solid but if you wanted my GTH guess it'd be something like unwnd ss infinity

Against my best judgment I must insist upon this

Could you condense your argument as to why you think I'm scum, and as an added bonus, where Infinity/SS fit in there? Just give me something I can stare at and let your thoughts run

I've read several of your games and usually within the first four posts I can nod my head and say this is a town unwnd

I can't do that here.

Unfair to you maybe but true.

[Anastasia]

My near-term goal is to get Keep won and have my card flipped as town so I don't have to deal with Absinthe suspecting me and my reads can be taken as Gospel Truth.

[Anastasia]

Though I can't really promise they will be incredibly accurate or whatever.

I just do not want to have to duel anyone 1v1 on a wall or w/e.

Not my idea of a good time.

[Anastasia]

It's very hard for scum to insert themselves into a conversation when two townies are screaming at each other passionately so I can understand that.

[Anastasia]

If anyone tries to make me fight you I'll lay down my life so you may live in luxury.

It's almost unfair how you've captured my heart <3

[Anastasia]

I will love you forever even if you somehow flip not town because the heart wants what the heart wants <3

[Anastasia]

I've decided

Don't break my heart.

VOTE: Keep

[Anastasia]

we just need absinthe now to girls party forever

[Anastasia]

I am excited but also mildly horrified and hoping absinthe doesn't hop in here because if that group ends up being the same /after/ the mafia change people around I am going to cry.

I'm not going to lie if that's the final keep group after shuffle I'm going to find a window and jump out.

[Anastasia]

I don't think I've ever scumread Absinthe.

[Anastasia]

I am excited but also mildly horrified and hoping absinthe doesn't hop in here because if that group ends up being the same /after/ the mafia change people around I am going to cry.

I'm not going to lie if that's the final keep group after shuffle I'm going to find a window and jump out.

Make sure you grab my hand and take me with you.

We will snack on delicious popcorn and laugh at the others as they try to solve the game <3

[Anastasia]

This makes sense to me when it comes to your initial scumread on Absin, but I can't shake the feeling that you relented only because of your stated fear. It seemed like a moment where you realized your read on Absin wasn't very planned. I feel like you still hold me at this strange standard where you scumread me but still want to send me hearts and say you're upset that I liked Briar's content or whatever. How am I supposed to feel about that in terms of the game?

I have never scumread Absinthe in this game.

If I want to kill someone, I will just kill them. I don't really fake nuance, I take it as a challenge when I meet resistance.

My roleplay flirting with you is different from my read of your alignment - you could say I just like bad boys?

I'm not going to tell you what your feelings are, I have trouble with my own feelings and I'm also not a psychic.

[Anastasia]

I'm gonna try and condense my thoughts onto you because I was the one who initiated. I want to preface this that I'm not really fond of (in particular) being held to some kind of standard because that makes me boxed in. A lot of my past games were actually a cause of that effect, feeling like I had something I needed to live up to. When it came to how I interpreted Absin, I very much her enjoy her no-nonsense and getting right down to business. That's the type of mentality I can work with as I want all the pieces in front of me. I'm very obsessive in that manner and a lot of what you're seeing right now is me not being afraid of divulging on my methods. Being more open because it's something I haven't done in a good while.

That's fair and I shouldn't hold you to some arbitrary past standard of your play, however I am only human and I have the itching feeling that you are not town here as a result.

[Anastasia]

right now I think a briar/anastasia/me group would get broken up during the night phase.

I'll probably have to unpack that change of heart, but I'd like to wait until morning.

Anastasia, I'm unsure about Dunn being town. I want to townread catboi but I don't think he's done anything unequivocally town. The body of work, feels town, though.

I need to think about unwnd and sift through his iso a few times.

I think it's fine if we get broken up, one of briar/absinthe will remain in the keep and that will flip town and give us a point and a scum flip to work with.

[Anastasia]

I don't think I've ever scumread Absinthe.

Maybe not overtly? But I've held a different interpretation. From what I gather you don't seem like a player who can't comprehend that you can dislike someone and still not claim a scumread. I got that impression from your posts, where you exercised caution. Then that turned into where we are now. I think I've right about said all I wanted to but I am generally confused by the variation between how you treated Absin and how you treated me

I haven't even disliked Absinthe.

I adore Absinthe actually.

[Anastasia]

If she can fake that level of vitriol as scum pushing a townie then she is even better of a scum player than I thought.

[Anastasia]

ok using dislike in the mafia sense, I have never disliked Absinthe.

Not once this game have I ever had her at anything lower than null.

[Anastasia]

the heart wants what the heart wants.

[Anastasia]

my plan is to let briar win the keep, if thats what you want too I don't see why you would stop me?

[Anastasia]

I guess the only thing you would say that makes my plan bad is if you think Absinthe is scum?

cuz I really don't care who between Briar/Absinthe win the keep, they are both very townie for me.

[Anastasia]

Probably moderately +scum because giving up control is pretty much always +town here, but not very much so. (Incidentally: this means Lukewarm's reaction is towny.)

See this is just wrong.

there's no incentive for scum!Ana to go to keep and promise to vote through Briar/Absinthe because that's a point for the town.

[Anastasia]

there's no incentive for scum!Ana to go to keep and promise to vote through Briar/Absinthe because that's a point for the town.

Only if you actually follow through with it...

I've already committed to voting for whichever of Briar/Absinthe remain in the group.

I have no reason to change on this.

[Anastasia]

Also, Keep is the easiest for town to win, so it's the ideal target for a bold gambit like that.

I mean you'll know as soon as I vote for them that it's not a gambit right?

[Anastasia]

I've already committed to voting for whichever of Briar/Absinthe remain in the group.

I have no reason to change on this.

What if you change your mind?

I will not

[Anastasia]

like this entire line of thought SS has is nonsense.

He's literally casting doubt on my motivations when it is provable that I will be voting for Briar/Absinthe.

[Anastasia]

I will not

Seems like you aren't playing to win then?

You're supposed to be pretending I'm scum in case you forgot.

[Anastasia]

Like if in the future I change my mind and I refuse to vote for Absinthe/Briar.

Then it makes sense for SS to be like this is a gambit by Ana.

But until that actually happens - he has no ground to say I am scum-gambitting.

[Anastasia]

He's literally casting doubt on my motivations when it is provable that I will be voting for Briar/Absinthe.

It's not provable

now

If you get swapped out, which is likely if you/briar/absinthe are all town and also if you are scum, it will never be provable.

If I get swapped out of Keep and Briar/Absinthe get voted through, that's still one point for town and I am happy with that.

[Anastasia]

And I'm not. I'm just saying it's possible.

To be clear-- I was not aware that you'd committed to definitely voting whoever of Briar/absinthe remains at the Keep. If you clearly stated it somewhere, it was too far back and I didn't recall it? My +scum comment was about you jumping on the Keep, only.

I don't think a gambit is incredibly likely, but I also think that you're playing badly if town by committing yourself to not changing those reads.

only if my reads are wrong

[Anastasia]

Why Am I Still Awake.

because you played too much league of legends and now you can't calm down and get to sleep.

you should never play video games before bed.

[Anastasia]

only if my reads are wrong

I think it's pretty silly to have a value judgement on play that is only determined after the game is over. We want to know now what's good and what isn't; so I think that it is bad play to commit yourself to a read like that, even if the read turns out to be right in the end.

I think you are stuck in a weird place where you can't decide whether you want to shade me as bold genius scum gambitter or bad town tunnel reader and it makes you sound funny

since I think you are scummy it makes me feel I'm on the right track with this briar/absinthe plan

[Anastasia]

Why Am I Still Awake.

because you played too much league of legends and now you can't calm down and get to sleep.

you should never play video games before bed.

Why did you call me out like this. Get out of the Keep group right now.

Is it my fault that you took my heart with you?

[Anastasia]

you are stuck in a weird place where you assume that I have to be pushing something rather than just trying to solve this puzzle like the rest of us

I guess we're both stuck in weird places then

[Anastasia]

Question for the thread. Should I vote myself into the keep? Like can I get a count on who is on board with that?

I think that that is the best place to put me, and Briar made a decent case for me going there as well. But now that 2 of the slots are locked in, I am worried that if I wait, I will end up somewhere else.

I think if you were to come into the keep you would need Briar's permission at this point unless you want to commit to voting me/briar through

[Anastasia]

Question for the thread. Should I vote myself into the keep? Like can I get a count on who is on board with that?

I think that that is the best place to put me, and Briar made a decent case for me going there as well. But now that 2 of the slots are locked in, I am worried that if I wait, I will end up somewhere else.

I think if you were to come into the keep you would need Briar's permission at this point unless you want to commit to voting me/briar through

Really,

you

are going to tell me to wait for other people's permission before putting myself into a zone.

because I did it with the intent of voting other people and not myself.

[Anastasia]

Actually, it's probably better for Ana to pick who she wants in the final slot? If she's in fact wanting to vote someone other than herself it should be someone she's confident in.

I am confident in you and Absinthe

[Anastasia]

Good Night Briar!

[Anastasia]

I think your play has gotten a lot better since then tbh.

[Anastasia]

With that said, I am looking for two wonderfully townie players to share a lovely evening under the stars with me.

I would like them to be so obviously town that I have no doubt in my heart that I can trust them.

well this is still my goal and you are still in my heart regardless of what you think of me.

[Anastasia]

in D&C you obvtown'd very quickly and you will be put into a similar 3P very soon.

[Anastasia]

My thought is that putting 3 town (very likely town) into the keep forces the Mafia to use one of their swaps there.

That's true of any location. If we really could identify 3 town, wouldn't it be best to put them at the Wall to force scum to swap in a scum to get voted off?

keep only requires 2 correct townreads for a force-win.

[Anastasia]

in D&C you obvtown'd very quickly and you will be put into a similar 3P very soon.

In D&C I obvtowned quite slowly relative to my post volume, early on most people were scumreading me and I had an absurd amount of motivation compared to what I'm likely to have here.

I probably have a little more motivation than what I thought because I like the environment of this game, but don't expect me to be obvtown here.

I expect you to obvtown or be scum

[Anastasia]

Yes, so why put 3 strong townreads there if we only need two...?

because we can win the game if we get a 3-3

[Anastasia]

also I'm not sure who the third is?

I strongly townread Briar and Absinthe, I'm not sure if anyone strongly townreads me

[Anastasia]

I think the point is more that it's probably objectively the Worst to send the hard to reads to the Keep because if they're all like, in that place where scum end up a lot of null-town/townleany it's a fucking headache to deal with.

Well if you become as blazingly townie as you promise, then it would make sense to send the scummy/nully people to the keep with you right?

I don't think that was clear from her post at all.

Ideally I want to put two UTRs in the keep to guarantee a win there.

I believe Absinthe/Me/You are all town.

So the scum would have to sub one of us out and put a scum in keep if they get 2-1 in the other 2 areas.

its very unlikely imo that the keep group can stay at me-absi-you, but if it does i'll deal with that situation when it comes up.

Ana, I am interested by the fact that your opinion on the Keep seems to have evolved from suggesting we put exactly 1 UTR in the keep, to saying the ideal would be 2 UTRs in the Keep, to deciding the best course of action would be for you to add yourself + your top town read, such that you are 100% sure all 3 players in the Keep are town.

I am just curious what made you change your mind here.

I didn't realize fully the implications of the swap prior to saying that to Briar.

[Anastasia]

because we can win the game if we get a 3-3

But we won't.

I'm actually slightly hopeful that if you and infinity go to the wall with unwnd that we will win the game immediately.

[Anastasia]

the fact that you're talking about things that are so unlikely to happen just makes me scumread you more.

It's easier for you to talk about things that are unlikely because it doesn't matter.

It's unlikely for you to care about things that are unlikely to be true if you are town imo.

[Anastasia]

because we can win the game if we get a 3-3

But we won't.

I'm actually slightly hopeful that if you and infinity go to the wall with unwnd that we will win the game immediately.

The implication is that you want one of Luke/me, Dunn and Catboi at the Gate?

well I want you with me at the Keep because I want to win that.

I scumread unwnd for his play and I scumread infinity/SS on their interaction and play independently.

I don't have a particularly good read on catboi or dunn or Luke.

[Anastasia]

I scumread unwnd for his play and I scumread infinity/SS on their interaction and play independently.

And you think we'd throw the game?

I think if either one of you try to escape to the Gate it would be a scum claim

[Anastasia]

Well you townread me conditionally based on my willingness to vote for townreads that I hold in my heart.

The condition does not apply if I'm the one being voted in the Keep.

That is the gambit you mentioned earlier no?

[Anastasia]

It's adorable I love it <3

[Anastasia]

I think if either one of you try to escape to the Gate it would be a scum claim

Well yes, but we would also have to do it.

If Infinity and I both went to the Wall right now, by definition the game would not be over.

Well I guess not in that sense.

Like I don't expect the two of you to jump into the wall of your own volition.

I'd hope to convince the rest of the town that my reads are correct and get Dunn/Catboi and Luke to go into the gate and then you will end up at the wall with Unwnd/Infinity by default.

[Anastasia]

(Can you talk to me more about the S_S read? I went to sleep thinking that he was feeling townier from how he was posting.)

I think he knows more than he's pretending to know.

[Anastasia]

I mean it's not something that's important per se.

If nobody thinks we can actually win via 3-3-0, then I don't see the harm in entertaining my whims with a try at it if you know what I mean.

[Anastasia]

I think he knows more than he's pretending to know.

About what

I think you know the answers to the questions you ask so you're asking more for the purpose of being engaged than genuine curiosity/sorting.

[Anastasia]

Ana tbh I don't know who you are, but it's kind of frustrating that you obviously know me but are using clearly wrong methods to sort me and have seen games (one night stand) where those methods obviously didn't work to sort me. I'm not saying I'm easy to sort, but you're very wrong and don't seem to be willing to take feedback on your read.

I'm not sure why pushing you to obvtown would be a bad way to sort you?

[Anastasia]

Well the harm is just if it ends up negatively affecting our assignments.

If you just want to speculate about it, I guess that's fine, but it feels like it would mostly just increase your confirmation bias.

Well what's wrong with putting SS-Infinity-Unwnd at the Wall in the world where you are town?

[Anastasia]

Definitely some of my questions are rhetorical, if that's what you mean.

Can you give some examples of these and demonstrate why you think I already knew the answer?

for example this question.

You state in the first line you know you do this.

In the second line you ask me for examples of this.

If you're self aware that you're doing this, why even ask me to come up with some examples?

[Anastasia]

Well what's wrong with putting SS-Infinity-Unwnd at the Wall in the world where you are town?

Seems like it would be best to put universal scumreads at the Gate because one of them will hopefully get to be confirmed town.

unwnd is already at the wall so i cant put my team guess into the gate.

[Anastasia]

I played so badly in that game and I feel like my posting here is leaps and bounds better.

I feel like in any game where skitter has a strong townread on you and you're scum can't be classified as "playing badly"

he was also nommed for a scummy for his play in that game so I don't think it makes sense to say he played badly

[Anastasia]

My whole point was that you should not let your desire to put your team guess together seriously influence who goes where.

no your point was that it would be nonoptimal for the town to take a shot.

so my question to you is what is optimal then?

because if noone can make a good case for what the optimal layout is, I don't see why the town shouldnt take a shot on my team guess


what do you have to lose?

[Anastasia]

SS digging in against my SS-infinity-unwnd team guess makes me think im actually right

i would think town ss would jump at the chance to untunnel me

[Anastasia]

I'm not the kind of person who will do an impulsive suboptimal thing just to prove a point.

it is better than using a elimination. we dont really lose much this way and if im right we just win.

[Anastasia]

we dont really lose much this way

I've spent, like, my last three posts disputing this and you're just glossing over them

I didn't find your reasons compelling sorry.

The thing where you said it's better to put all our scum reads at the Gate instead is just irrelevant since unwnd is already at the wall so my team guess if accepted would have to be in the Wall not the gate.

I'd think at least one of Infinity/SS if they are town and are being incorrectly scumread would be happy to prove me wrong by committing to go to the wall.

Infinity has more or less non-engaged with the topic while SS's excuses for why he does not want this feel quite weak.

I know this is gonna sound conf-biasy as fk but I think maybe I did get the team guess right

[Anastasia]

I guess what I'm saying is I was trying to reaction test you/infinity to see if either of you would actually be willing to go to the wall just to prove me wrong but neither of you volunteered to do that so now I feel more convinced I am actually right.

[Anastasia]

Hmm. True.

There's just a small part of me that doesn't trust her despite everything because as a player I feel this is the sort of thing she would do as scum so holding her accountable to her willingness to vote someone who's not herself makes me more comfortable with her. Like, I'm pre-emptively neutering her as scum.

But I guess that her willingness to do that only extended to me/absinthe I think?

Like, hm.

I love that you understand me so well <3

[Anastasia]

I guess what I'm saying is I was trying to reaction test you/infinity to see if either of you would actually be willing to go to the wall just to prove me wrong but neither of you volunteered to do that so now I feel more convinced I am actually right.

Volunteered as in actually signed up? Or just said "I'd be willing to go to the Wall"?

yea if your initial reaction to me declaring that I wanted you/infinity at the wall with unwnd was

something along the lines of "sure i'll go to the wall just to prove you wrong"

I would've thought my guess is likely wrong.

[Anastasia]

I do understand the odds of me being exactly right on the composition of three scum is extremely unlikely.

[Anastasia]

I'm trying to figure out why you wouldn't want to put someone you scumread in the keep

I'd like to take a shot on infinity-ss-unwnd as the scum team because I am a naive dreamer.

[Anastasia]

My suggestion is that we put three scumreads on the wall and here's how I think about it:

If we put 3 scumreads on wall and ana-briar-absinthe are all town in the keep - we could end up at:

Gate-Wall-Keep:

3T-3S-3T

Which is a win for town.

If we are wrong about one player in Wall, it'd be:

Gate-Wall-Keep:

2T-2S-3T

In which case a S from Wall goes into Keep and we have two 1v1s in Wall/Gate and we only need to win one of the 1v1s to win the game.

If we're actually here:

Gate-Wall-Keep:

2S-2T-3T

Then we know there was only 1 scum on the wall, and we can recalibrate from there.

[Anastasia]

I'd like to take a shot on infinity-ss-unwnd as the scum team because I am a naive dreamer.

or, get this: you don't, and then the scum probably rule it out via swaps. and if they don't, then we've seriously narrowed the amount of possible swaps available to them.

I don't understand

[Anastasia]

If me, Infinity, and unwnd don't all end up at different locations post-swap, then we are 100% ruled out as a team. So if scum don't ensure that we do all end up at different locations, you got your wish at eliminating that team, without having to strongarm the locations. And if scum do ensure that we all end up at different locations, it means they couldn't use their swap to do whatever else they wanted to do.

ok but why wouldn't the scum want to put you three in different locations?

[Anastasia]

ok but why wouldn't the scum want to put you three in different locations?

In case they want to set up a win that relies on fooling someone who has different reads from you?

I'm not sure who else they would be trying to trick as nobody else has expressed a solve?

[Anastasia]

ok but like if Briar and Ana are both town don't we want scum to take the last slot?

I want to get the day 1 clean win tho

[Anastasia]

Okay... But why would you, as scum do it?

Like I feel like you are trying to make the point Briar+Ana can't both be town, because if they were both town, then a scum would have put themselves there already. But I am not following your logic, because I cannot figure out what the scum team would gain from making the play of locking themselves in there already.

I think it's a good point that Dunnstral raises

however the scum team I proposed SS-Infinity are both not as bold as Dunnstral so I can see them choosing to not sacrifice themselves at the Keep in a daring ploy.

[Anastasia]

If I were scum and Briar/Ana were both town, I'd already be in the Keep

You would scumclaim and force the optimal move onto town?

I feel like this is coming from a scum!SS who has already considered the move that Dunnstral is proposing and decided it's not a good play to make.

His disbelief reads to me like he can't believe a townie would say such a silly nonsensical strategy.

Yes I'm horribly confbiased - but that's kind of why I want the ss-infy-unwnd team to snap me out of it if I'm wrong <3

[Anastasia]

I feel like the chances are low, even though I think your solve is probably close.

I can't believe I need to suggest both of you that it isn't lol

It's the reaction to my moonshot that pings me.

None of the three of infy - unwnd - ss has reacted in a way that I'd think town!them would react

[Anastasia]

Please, please, explain to me the good point he made, because I missed it.

What would the scum team possibly gain by locking themselves into the Keep?

Because it seems to me like Dunn is making a case that you or Briar must be scum, and I cannot figure out how he is coming to this conclusion.

His point is that if a scum team saw me/briar townblocked and almost certain to win the keep for the town, the scum team would just sack a player into the keep as a strategy because _________.


I'm not going to go into _______ because it would be trying to show the scum team what optimal strategy they should play.

I'm not going to go into whether ______ is valid or not.

But regardless it feels like a town train of thought .

[Anastasia]

I think you're town here but I am very against D1 solves regardless of what setup we're in. Even worse if I'm apart of the solve

Well it's a special feature of the setup that we get a "free" check of sorts that doesn't really require much investment on our part.

[Anastasia]

Spoiler:

Right now I'm sort of locked into the wall and the more shade you throw at me, the less likely you see any sort of movement

Well let's start with the basics

Would you agree that ana/absin/briar is likely an all town keep group?

[Anastasia]

I am asking what is the incentive to a scum locking themselves into the Keep.

If they lose the Keep minigame if they lock in early AND they lose the minigame if they don't lock in early

Then how are you using the fact that they did not lock in early to draw any conclusions?

I don't think we should discuss optimal scum strategy for them lol

[Anastasia]

Yes I'm horribly confbiased - but that's kind of why I want the ss-infy-unwnd team to snap me out of it if I'm wrong <3

I feel like this is coming from scum!Anastasia who knows that the solve is wrong and wants to set up an unwinnable Wall

Look I can make stupid theories too

Keep resolves first so that doesn't even make sense.

[Anastasia]

I feel like this is coming from a scum!SS who has already considered the move that Dunnstral is proposing and decided it's not a good play to make.

In all honesty though this is silly and you should know it. I considered the merits of that play because Dunn brought it up. It's not like my response was instantaneous.

It's just a feeling. I might be wrong.

[Anastasia]

None of the three of infy - unwnd - ss has reacted in a way that I'd think town!them would react

Roughly how many games of experience do you have with me?

More than five.

[Anastasia]

Keep resolves first so that doesn't even make sense.

I mean even if you flip scum in the Keep we would still have to figure out the Wall with three scummy people, when it could have included towny people which would have made it easier (which is what I'm suggesting)

Your suggestion is that Me/Briar are townblock so we should put a scummy person in the keep with us since keep is won I believe?

[Anastasia]

More than five.

But you seriously expected town-me to go "screw strategy, I'm gonna yeet myself into the Wall just to prove Ana wrong!"?

Well it's not a yeet per se.

[Anastasia]

Spoiler:

Right now I'm sort of locked into the wall and the more shade you throw at me, the less likely you see any sort of movement

Well let's start with the basics

Would you agree that ana/absin/briar is likely an all town keep group?

My head says no but my heart could possibly say yes

If you think SS is town why don't you want him to join you at the Wall?

[Anastasia]

Spoiler:

Right now I'm sort of locked into the wall and the more shade you throw at me, the less likely you see any sort of movement

Well let's start with the basics

Would you agree that ana/absin/briar is likely an all town keep group?

My head says no but my heart could possibly say yes

If you think SS is town why don't you want him to join you at the Wall?

Because it probably doesn't happen? Scum can't be in the same minigame and if they are they have to switch them around....

I'm talking about my push to have SS/Infinity join you at the wall, you seem to be opposed to it.

I'm asking you why you would be opposed to SS joining you at the wall if you think he's town?

[Anastasia]

Here's the thing unwnd.

You can't actually fight me on SS joining you at the wall and maintain a townread on him.

The only way you can say that you think SS shouldn't join you at the wall is if you find him scummy.

If the Keep group is 3 town which you acknowledge is possible - then you at the wall should be trying to get two townies to join you in order to maybe get a win or failing that at least having some clarity as to your opposition.

Instead you've been oppositional to me without a clear motive of your own - which makes me feel that you haven't actually thought much about how to win from a town POV on your end but rather how to

avoid losing from the scum POV

[Anastasia]

OK I'm starting to get what you want to do but it falls completely apart knowing that I'm town lol

If you're town and you're right about SS town then you will still win the wall.

[Anastasia]

Am I allowed to choose then who I'd want in the wall with me then?

I kind of don't trust you but my plan makes a contingency for if I'm wrong about you/ss in that we still win the wall.

[Anastasia]

As another topic, this is why I'm against the idea of how Ana was treating me. I don't really know how I'm going to act? I don't go into my towngames thinking 'yes, this is how I will play and it should match up to my last town game' because it never fucking does. At least not 1:1. That's where my frustration was

I'm sorry for having such high expectations for you <3

[Anastasia]

My response to Ana was very literal. I've felt for a good while she's only insistent upon this to see if she's right and nothing else

Well on the flip side if I'm absolutely wrong about you and SS and you're T/T we would also win in case Infinity is also town.

Do you scumread infinity?

[Anastasia]

I guess the reason I'm so insistent on trying to see if my team-solve is right is that I feel like it's a free shot we can take. It doesn't really cost us anything?

[Anastasia]

I do understand that I'm most probably just wrong here tho

[Anastasia]

One of them was already explained, which is that it's good to have no more than two townread players at the Keep, seeing as we only need one to end up there post-swap.
The other is that the Wall is the hardest minigame and you're the kind of person who would give us a good shot at winning it

I think Briar's townread of me is conditional on my willingness to vote Briar/Absinthe through- so if Briar/Absinthe are not at the keep with me I'm not sure she would still trust me 100% to carry the torch foward in the situation that she gets bounced out of the Keep.

[Anastasia]

I can't compete with that

[Anastasia]

My tender heart can't handle much more

[Anastasia]

It might've been selfish to pick the keep as it's the only place where people can agree to party and drink wine together rather than jostling over who will be executed and I'm just more of a party girl than a kill people girl.

[Anastasia]

I didn't think when I chose to come into the Keep with you that you could be so wonderful as you are and it makes me giggle a bit inside my heart.

You can't see how wide my smile is and I'm so glad I'm in here with you.

[Anastasia]

Killing is necessary and I am willing to make the hard decisions

That influenced my choice to go the Wall

How are you so handsome and dashing?


I don't deserve you

[Anastasia]

It took me some time but I finally realized our soul connection cannot be broken in these different bodies.

I think I'm going to retire this alt after the game is over because nothing could be more magical than an evening in the Keep under the stars with you <3

[Anastasia]

our mutual acquaintance has rubbed off on us <3

[Anastasia]

It's only because you've taken his heart and he is lost without you...

[Anastasia]

If I'm well and truly pocketed by you this game I will be devastated beyond words.

[Anastasia]

I think the way you pocketed him during that dance was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.

I wish somebody could break my heart that way but I am so jaded inside.

[Anastasia]

I think you should still come to the Keep with us

it'll be a party <3

[Anastasia]

I think if Absinthe came to the keep we somehow all remained at the keep the collective suffering would be intense and memorable.

[Anastasia]

We have a Castle!

[Anastasia]

I'm going to give it a few hours for serious objections and then vote keep unless convinced it's super suboptimal of me. I guess the main objection would be that I wouldn't be around very long to weigh in on the rest of the mini-games.

I think we'd certainly play a bit until we exit.

I'm definitely not going to rush it.