kinda feel like i have been fanvoted into the allstar game or something but here i am
hello friends new friends and ydrasse <3
hm,
like
hi chara!In post 21, Chara wrote:pedit: hi demona, what do you mean by 'the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep'. do you mean you personally can hold the Keep (ie get yourself as a locktown read/find town) or something else?
i don't think it makes me special or anything but past historyIn post 24, Coral wrote:It seems like there's an implied assumption here that you are or will be obvtown, is that what you're saying? What makes you special in that regard over anyone else, I guess is what I'm asking.
we most recently encountered eachother when i was backup moderating the silent star you were mafia in, and before that the binding of isaac game you moderatedIn post 29, Chara wrote:i don't know you, i think. do you have a habit of obvtowning as town?In post 22, demona wrote:hi chara!In post 21, Chara wrote:pedit: hi demona, what do you mean by 'the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep'. do you mean you personally can hold the Keep (ie get yourself as a locktown read/find town) or something else?
yeah most of playerlist familiar with me so yeah don't need to find town at the keep if the town finds me
*nostalgic, troubled sigh* i used to...
eh it's likeIn post 28, catboi wrote:I was typing out an answer to this when I realized I don't actually need to give scum advice on how to play. If you think you'll be able to be reliably read as town and are comfortable with hammering, go for it.
i guess i don't really understand how applicable coral's post is anywayIn post 92, Faker wrote:I think Coral would make this kind of suggestion as scum and after reviewing their answer I do scumlean this. I don't think she expected anyone to actually follow this and is mostly in it for the towncred.The unpredictability happens mainly because players are open/talking and suddenly town players take the ball and individually run the other way unexpectedly. This is a function of the degree of transparency of the players, not of them hiding the ball.In post 43, Coral wrote:My belief from previous runs is that scum struggled the most when town did unexpected things in the midgame. I think a rigid solve order does put all of the pieces on the table, which allows for the more chess-like analysis of how things develop, and that's valid.
I think the reason I lean towards wanting to inject some areas of unpredictability here is that we really only have very few points of information gain compared to a standard game.
mmmmmmmmmIn post 123, Chara wrote:is skitter in the room with us right now?
Coral, tell us about your Isis read! please. :>
<3 absinthe for giving game thoughts. if i've played with shiki before i don't remember, need more data this game to decide how i feel about it.
like how did you choose to refer to me that way?In post 133, demona wrote:mmmmmmmmmIn post 123, Chara wrote:is skitter in the room with us right now?
Coral, tell us about your Isis read! please. :>
<3 absinthe for giving game thoughts. if i've played with shiki before i don't remember, need more data this game to decide how i feel about it.
nnnnnn
why shiki?
oh it’s certainly okay i do not mindIn post 134, Chara wrote:sorry demona, i said shiki because that's the UN i recognize most.
unsure if by structurally you mean likeIn post 124, Faker wrote:i can't read shiki for SHIT but i remember reading something structurally like this from her so i'm inclined to take her at face value atm at my own peril
mmm hard for me to not feel like there might me an angle here after i expressed my thoughts regarding keep:In post 122, absinthe wrote:Coral feels pretty town.
like i don’t really think we need patience and cooperation to win the keep we just need one town to believe in the other and it doesn’t need to be two way street or anythingIn post 76, Coral wrote:I probably prefer Keep, if it matters. Purely from a playstyle perspective, I think it's ideal to have patience and cooperation there, since scum NEED a town to vote first and vote wrong. I have more faith in those abilities of mine than in pure read abilities, at least.
yes;In post 145, Isis wrote:Demona is asking for the minigame where you vote for a townie and win, right, not the one where you 1v1?In post 122, absinthe wrote:I have this odd feeling that skitter's *here*.
Demona seems sincere about being easily found as town, Do people who've played with them before agree?
Coral feels pretty town.
I wish there were flavor driven names S_S you made Undertale and then you strayed so far from god
hm, i guess i do not followIn post 148, Coral wrote:On paper the keep is the easiest for town, but in practice there can be a delicate balance and a lot of back and forth. The on paper strategy is for there to be a consensus that the scummiest player votes first, and then if they refuse to vote, they are outed as scum. But it isn't always that easy.In post 140, demona wrote:mmm hard for me to not feel like there might me an angle here after i expressed my thoughts regarding keep:In post 122, absinthe wrote:Coral feels pretty town.
like i don’t really think we need patience and cooperation to win the keep we just need one town to believe in the other and it doesn’t need to be two way street or anythingIn post 76, Coral wrote:I probably prefer Keep, if it matters. Purely from a playstyle perspective, I think it's ideal to have patience and cooperation there, since scum NEED a town to vote first and vote wrong. I have more faith in those abilities of mine than in pure read abilities, at least.
and if in the keep and there is absolutely no way to be the town that is believed in like if the other players in the keep refuse to ever vote for you then you simply ask them to each self vote and then it becomes the gate at least from my perspective
For example, consider the scenario where town A has a correct townread, but town B townreads scum (C). Town A will want to encourage C to vote first. C can indicate that they want to vote A. If B panics and thinks that vote will lose the minigame, they may pre-empt the vote and vote for C themselves, thinking that is the only way to win the game.
In general it is quite easy if the two town find each other, and can run on a knife's edge if they don't. It can be a very exciting and tense minigame with a lot of potential for mindgames. I think that patience and cooperation are valuable for it.
I'm also aware that it's likely to be a favorite choice for a lot of people, and not everyone who wants to go there will be able to.
do you thinkIn post 150, skitter30 wrote:I absolutely cannot articulate this but this post really pings me and feels bizarrely scummy to meIn post 16, demona wrote:like
i feel like
the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep
whereas the main benefit to me locking in the wall would be turning the wall into a second gate
so i was wondering if you thought there was great value in that since it seems you've been thinking about the setup et cetera
being town enough,In post 154, skitter30 wrote:Practically how would you do that?
let’s seeIn post 304, Tempest wrote:In how many games? (Not game related really. I just enjoy finding other hard to eliminate people; though I don’t think I’m that hard anymore.)
I guess in the end, the bit about locking up either room due to obvtowness or being an ic doesn’t matter too much based on who they move, and I liked some of your thoughts about yourself and how you’ll be found because they match how I feel about myself in general.
But do you also think that you are good at finding other town? Do you enjoy the pressure of being the decider in 3p? Or is your desire for where to go based mostly on you believing yourself easy to find?
What I’m quoting does sound like the latter but just wanted to make sure.
why dangerous?In post 307, Tempest wrote:I think I’m on page three and I have no real thoughts other than liking demona’s early game and belief she’ll be easily found. But that’s because it feels a bit like me and that’s dangerous, so we’ll see.
i was certainly not dragged into it;In post 206, Chara wrote:who in this gameIn post 204, absinthe wrote:I was enjoying retirement, and wouldn't have joined, but Prism's excitement is contagious! Also, massive car issues to sort through and today was kinda stressful on that front.
I don't know if that's contributing to weirdness or not. If it is, I've played weirdly in a lot of games over the years.wasn'tdragged into it by Prism, exactly?
oh! a potentially dangerous thought process for you to have because unfamiliarIn post 333, Tempest wrote:It’s that it’s dangerous for me to go oh demona feels like town to me because the way she’s asserting her ability to be read as town feels very similar to how I feel about my own play and confidence that when I’m town it’s obvious and most people will find that. It’s dangerous because it’s kinda projecting and I don’t know your capabilities as scum.
It’s just the same type of dangerous when someone goes, “this person is town because they’re making the same comments I was thinking when I read the game. They’re seeing the game the same as me so they’re town.” While sometimes true it’s just an egotistical read that can throw off all your reads.
So I like your posts surrounding that because I identify with it, but that’s a dangerous slope for me to fall into so I try to hold myself in check. I’m not sure if any of that makes sense.
mm tempting meIn post 234, skitter30 wrote:I lowkey kinda wish someone had lolpicked a game - it would make it easier to then figure out where *other people* should go based off of thay
I'm not sure how we're now going to crack the ice to start placing people
maybe unfair of me to ask butIn post 337, skitter30 wrote:I dont think so, i actually think you would be easier for me to engage with as scum than some other people hereIn post 335, demona wrote:mm tempting meIn post 234, skitter30 wrote:I lowkey kinda wish someone had lolpicked a game - it would make it easier to then figure out where *other people* should go based off of thay
I'm not sure how we're now going to crack the ice to start placing people
would you be likely to like
disengage with me as mafia?
feel like you are usually more wary of me especially given we had like a two day lead time and you know my feelings on having a set gamestart timeIn post 346, Isis wrote:Coral and demona are my favorite picks for town atp.
fair enough with regards to a normal blitz iv even though we won - far from my best gameIn post 364, Isis wrote:I was really impressed with gacha mafia and really unimpressed with our rand together. Your approach to this game seems really different from that one, especially because if you're scum here you're doing some kind of carrying play and you were collaborative in our game together (which I can't find, I have so many vibes from it but so little in the way of physical notes >_< ).In post 361, demona wrote:feel like you are usually more wary of me especially given we had like a two day lead time and you know my feelings on having a set gamestart timeIn post 346, Isis wrote:Coral and demona are my favorite picks for town atp.
kinda wonder how you are differentiating coral’s like ‘pushing the game’ from a mafia with like, a prepared approach
I definitely was way more wary of you between gacha and that last game
hmm what do you makeIn post 449, catboi wrote:want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fineIn post 444, Faker wrote:So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK
i guess i meant more of not explaining why it would make us better to be at the wall than the keepIn post 451, Chara wrote:i did explain why i put you where i did!
do you think i would be less funIn post 453, catboi wrote:I think they've both had plausible explanations but also that type of explanation isn't really particularly hard for scum to fake I don't think. That particular doesn't move the needle for me much.In post 450, demona wrote:hmm what do you makeIn post 449, catboi wrote:want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fineIn post 444, Faker wrote:So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK
of chara and faker both seemingly not wanting me in the keep
without really stating why
well yeah you’ve already moved on to chara/isis/xIn post 455, Chara wrote:i don't have a strong opinion on either, the keep suggestion i put forth had to do with the keep being the easiest to solve and therefore warranting the more difficult to solve players. i think you'll be easier so putting you in the 3p LyLo makes sense to me, especially in the scenario where i'm there with Prism. frankly i think any argument of "i should be in the Keep" is a good one because of that, townhunting is just easier and it's just mathematically better for town in the Keep.In post 452, demona wrote:i guess i meant more of not explaining why it would make us better to be at the wall than the keepIn post 451, Chara wrote:i did explain why i put you where i did!
though that location assignment doesn't reflect much more than a passing "let's put this here and see what everyone says", it's not anything i'd stick to.
oh i do not think it’d be rude, like i understand that everyone excited to be playing with eachother and so forth and that i am not always the easiest to interact withIn post 456, catboi wrote:hm when you put it that way it sounds rude if I say yes!In post 454, demona wrote:do you think i would be less funIn post 453, catboi wrote:I think they've both had plausible explanations but also that type of explanation isn't really particularly hard for scum to fake I don't think. That particular doesn't move the needle for me much.In post 450, demona wrote:hmm what do you makeIn post 449, catboi wrote:want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fineIn post 444, Faker wrote:So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK
of chara and faker both seemingly not wanting me in the keep
without really stating why
than absinthe
for you and faker?
I think I'm moreconfidentreading absinthe than you but I don't think it'd be unfun and for me personally maybe even more interesting to see what would happen if that were the assignment.
?
*in the keep with youIn post 489, demona wrote:?
my second preference as i think i just get iced at the gate
like i don’t really get how that’s upsetting to you as you’ve just stated your preference for the keep and for me to not be in the keep
unless you think me just waiting was correct which okay maybe
but i thought about your post and whether or not it’d be reasonable for us to be together and
shrug
? do you disagree with faker’s logic with regards to preference for faker and catboi to be at the keep?In post 492, Chara wrote:i don't mind being at the Wall with demona and Isis, but i am surprised by the vote there. there was nothing really preventing you from voting for Keep if you wanted to go there and wanted to vote right now.
i did want to be at the keep i just deferredIn post 493, Faker wrote:It's more that you really seemed to want to be at the Keep, and it made sense for you to be there with people who can read you. I'm not sure about your hesitation on the Gate because similar problems crop up in Wall: If you're not clear in Gate but the clear can read you you're fine, if you're the clear you have to vote correctly. In Wall you will still have to vote correctly.
idk not really noIn post 497, Chara wrote:you're putting a lot of stock into Faker's opinions, is there a townread there?
how likely do you think it is that scum!faker would have actually been targeting the keep rather than counting on me locking in the keep and you all going elsewhere?In post 656, catboi wrote:If you're scum and trying to put one over on me I hopefully figure it out before then but right now I don't think you'd target the keep if that was your plan.
i guess i do not really think there is actually a universe where demona/catboi/faker would have ever played out in the keep regardless unless one of catboi/faker is mafia and the mafia somehow ended up putting two members of their team into one of keep/gate and zero into the other which seems unlikely because mafia team would have had a lot of room to maneuverIn post 601, absinthe wrote:I'm not sure "fun" is the operant word for that!In post 454, demona wrote:do you think i would be less funIn post 453, catboi wrote:I think they've both had plausible explanations but also that type of explanation isn't really particularly hard for scum to fake I don't think. That particular doesn't move the needle for me much.In post 450, demona wrote:hmm what do you makeIn post 449, catboi wrote:want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fineIn post 444, Faker wrote:So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK
of chara and faker both seemingly not wanting me in the keep
without really stating why
than absinthe
for you and faker?
right like if catboi/faker both town then the mafia would have been forced to switch one of usIn post 678, demona wrote:i guess i do not really think there is actually a universe where demona/catboi/faker would have ever played out in the keep regardless unless one of catboi/faker is mafia and the mafia somehow ended up putting two members of their team into one of keep/gate and zero into the other which seems unlikely because mafia team would have had a lot of room to maneuverIn post 601, absinthe wrote:I'm not sure "fun" is the operant word for that!In post 454, demona wrote:do you think i would be less funIn post 453, catboi wrote:I think they've both had plausible explanations but also that type of explanation isn't really particularly hard for scum to fake I don't think. That particular doesn't move the needle for me much.In post 450, demona wrote:hmm what do you makeIn post 449, catboi wrote:want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fineIn post 444, Faker wrote:So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK
of chara and faker both seemingly not wanting me in the keep
without really stating why
than absinthe
for you and faker?
eh i'm not really sure how much sense this makes outside of the keepIn post 611, Coral wrote:Ah, you wanted skitter and demona together
In post 585, Faker wrote:but the second sentence says that I'm going to defer to skitter/demona and advocate for pairing them up in a minigame if they think they can read each other well.
*wall/gateIn post 678, demona wrote:keep/gate
but the b to c is potentially sortable mafia gameplayIn post 785, Isis wrote:A lot of the posts I was trying to read were a bit too hard to follow like if the a goes to b goes to c but b is c and b should go wall etc
We need more mafia gaemplay
hmIn post 732, absinthe wrote:It's the nature of the Keep to me. Just like any other group of three, if Demona, Tammy and I had gone to the keep, then two of us know that we are individually town regardless of which of the other two are scum. And I feel like it comes down to me in that instance because I either am townreading Tammy into the stratosphere or I'm having a nervous breakdown over which of them is town. And if Tammy is town, then given her reads right now, she'd make the wrong choice in that threesome. I feel like it would fall on me one way or another. Tammy and I both waffle a LOT. But I'm pretty sure I'm more decisive than she is in the early game. In fortress, it's ALL early game from my perspective. But maybe I'm totally wrong about how it would play out. And when I was thinking that a Demona/Tammy/me Keep it looked to me like it would be easier than it does now. I really didn't expect her to straight up scumread me at this point. I'm not blaming her for the read. I'm fighting off some major tilt and I'm well aware it's bleeding into my play, but I'm still going to keep it light in this game.In post 728, Coral wrote:How do you interpret her saying:In post 724, absinthe wrote:I'm pretty sure I already expressed this thought well before Tempest's post, so that doesn't appear to be what needs clarification.In post 717, Coral wrote:I'm not sure exactly why absinthe didn't clarify this, and focused more on the reads portion, but the way I interpreted the original post was that she was saying that she would be the decider due to being the consensus scumread among the Keep players (scummiest person decides is the standard Keep play). Which I think does line up with what you're saying here.In post 686, Tempest wrote:I realize that you might not have known demona went to the wall, but I’m curious about your thoughts there. I’m on record as having a town read on demona. It’s the only read I’ve unequivocally stated. I’ve mentioned a suspicion of you. Now I know my reads can change quite a lot, especially overnight, but your thought there that you’d be the decider doesn’t line up with the thoughts I’ve given.
It feels meaningful, somehow, that absinthe focused on analyzing your reads portion of this rather than clearing up what looks to me like a misunderstanding. But maybe I'm the one misunderstanding something here?
1) she townreads demona
2) she mentioned a suspicion of you
2) therefore, you being the decider doesn't line up with the thoughts she's given
That seems to directly imply that, regardless of her reads and whether she stated them earlier or not, she thinks that her suspicion of you is incompatible with you being the decider, no?
That's was convoluted to write because of the layers of hypotheticals and my own re-thoughts based on Tammy's posts today.
At the moment I can't imagine being the player who is voted in the Keep. So my agency comes down to getting my reads right. Otherwise I'm putting the weight of the minigame on the other town player.
When town, Tammy really shines out as town IMO. We usually have a few bobbles and misinterpretations, but those bobbles almost always have resolved, usually the next time we interact.
I expected (and kinda still expect) us to eventually connect pretty well in this game if she's town. Despite Tammy's assertion that she's never in my top town reads, that's hasn't really been the case in our last few games. WH13, Diffusion, Tenet, all three of those games my read of her settled well before hers did of me (and in Diffusion she never expressed a townread of my hydra. Her hydra partner did). In all three of those games she was high tier town to me (in Tenet even before her hydra were mod confirmed town I was townreading them). We meet as hydras a lot and my partners' thoughts play into my reads of her, but often I'm the first to get there. The Smokefilled game probably deserves mention too, but the dethy had a huge impact on my reads. She was my second-highest townread in the dethy, starting very early on.
In post 825, skitter30 wrote:Fwiw there was no indication faker was imminently trying to get you into keep and your selection was a kneejerk reaction out of proportion to the actual discussion being hadIn post 677, demona wrote:how likely do you think it is that scum!faker would have actually been targeting the keep rather than counting on me locking in the keep and you all going elsewhere?In post 656, catboi wrote:If you're scum and trying to put one over on me I hopefully figure it out before then but right now I don't think you'd target the keep if that was your plan.
i don’t really think faker was trying to herd me to keepIn post 826, skitter30 wrote:Like idk why you keep acting like faker was trying to herd you to keep, that wasnf happening
yeah this like if faker!scum this super plausible so it seemed odd to me that catboi was putting weight into faker targeting keepIn post 829, Faker wrote:You're misinterpreting 677. I think she's saying what if I was positioning for Keep publicly but secretly hoping that demona would lock it, giving me the free way out, and her actually locking Wall made it fall through.
(I think, maybe your interpretation is correct)
faker stated a preference for the keep and for me to not also be in the keep if faker wasIn post 845, skitter30 wrote:In post 829, Faker wrote:You're misinterpreting 677. I think she's saying what if I was positioning for Keep publicly but secretly hoping that demona would lock it, giving me the free way out, and her actually locking Wall made it fall through.
(I think, maybe your interpretation is correct)I thought that this was what you were trying to say with thisIn post 489, demona wrote:?
my second preference as i think i just get iced at the gate
like i don’t really get how that’s upsetting to you as you’ve just stated your preference for the keep and for me to not be in the keep
unless you think me just waiting was correct which okay maybe
but i thought about your post and whether or not it’d be reasonable for us to be together and
shrug
i think coral/tempest were sayingIn post 878, Isis wrote:I'm so lost, aren't suspicious people compatible with being decidersIn post 728, Coral wrote:How do you interpret her saying:In post 724, absinthe wrote:I'm pretty sure I already expressed this thought well before Tempest's post, so that doesn't appear to be what needs clarification.In post 717, Coral wrote:I'm not sure exactly why absinthe didn't clarify this, and focused more on the reads portion, but the way I interpreted the original post was that she was saying that she would be the decider due to being the consensus scumread among the Keep players (scummiest person decides is the standard Keep play). Which I think does line up with what you're saying here.In post 686, Tempest wrote:I realize that you might not have known demona went to the wall, but I’m curious about your thoughts there. I’m on record as having a town read on demona. It’s the only read I’ve unequivocally stated. I’ve mentioned a suspicion of you. Now I know my reads can change quite a lot, especially overnight, but your thought there that you’d be the decider doesn’t line up with the thoughts I’ve given.
It feels meaningful, somehow, that absinthe focused on analyzing your reads portion of this rather than clearing up what looks to me like a misunderstanding. But maybe I'm the one misunderstanding something here?
1) she townreads demona
2) she mentioned a suspicion of you
2) therefore, you being the decider doesn't line up with the thoughts she's given
That seems to directly imply that, regardless of her reads and whether she stated them earlier or not, she thinks that her suspicion of you is incompatible with you being the decider, no?
i guess i don’t really understand why you wouldn’t want to come to wall with me if you’re the most sure that i am town and the wall would therefore be more or less solved from your perspective without one of us being switchedIn post 911, Isis wrote:I do now that it sounds very available since 99.9 repeating percent of my interest is with who I go with
aware would probably be a better word than knowledgeableIn post 981, demona wrote:like is there really benefit to me rambling about how like, skitter did something similar to her first few posts where she scumread me and then townread my follow up posts while i was trying to interact with her about it as scum before and that’s why i asked about her likelihood to disengage from me wanted to feel if her response felt like knowledgeable
while skitter and others discuss whether or not skitter should come to wall
when i also think that that discussion is likely to weigh just as much to me as other thought
yeah i don’t really have the ability to like eliminate those thoughts i had entirely but i did think your reasoning was plausible or likely evenIn post 983, Faker wrote:I don't really know. The circleback question is both to see your answer, and to nip the issue from BoI/Slaughter Hour with misunderstanding my angle entirely, and persisting through it, in the bud rather than have it cause issues later down the line if you were scared to continue going back/forth anticipating a similar snap.In post 979, demona wrote:i dunno if i would say cleared up so much as i have taken those into consideration; how do you think i am reading you now?
hm, it like, adds additional information into others’ decisions that is very difficult for me to weighIn post 985, Faker wrote:I mean, yes? Do you think she's had other points where she's been more town/less town?In post 981, demona wrote:like is there really benefit to me rambling about how like, skitter did something similar to her first few posts where she scumread me and then townread my follow up posts while i was trying to interact with her about it as scum before and that’s why i asked about her likelihood to disengage from me wanted to feel if her response felt like knowledgeable
while skitter and others discuss whether or not skitter should come to wall
when i also think that that discussion is likely to weigh just as much to me as other thought
If you think there's an advantage in holding most of your thoughts for tomorrow then you can. I'd probably disagree but that's just my style.
at least if you’re town you’d get to solve with lots of information in this situationIn post 987, Faker wrote:We can revisit it tomorrow, I'm more worried about it if I get swapped into Wall but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯