Mini Normal 2030: Day 8

[Naomi-Tan]

Hi, just posting to say im alive but its super late so, time for sleep. See you guys in a while

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: ManateeDude

Gutscum

Why are you selflynching?

ManateeDude unlynch yourself

Selflynch is gamethrow unless you're jester/mime

Morning, all.

Parrot coming down so hard on someone for a joke vote? It is super early day one and that is very twitchy.

[Naomi-Tan]

I should of prof read that meant to stay; "Parrot why are you coming down so hard...."

[Naomi-Tan]

Note: As I all most accidentally did it while typing I just wanted to say if I accidentally call town Blue instead of green It's just cause on another site I play on its red vs blue not green.

I dont think asking someone why is he coming down so hard is appropriate

Yup its not, I was just trying to push out of RVS.

How come

I just want to shake him a bit. Manatee is difficult to read because he's scummy as both town and scum.

Can you explain this a little more?

1)He doesnt explain how "shaking him a bit" would help differentiate townmanatee vs scummanatee.

2) how is it particularly useful here, when by his words, "hes scummy as both town and scum"?

I would just like an elaboration.

@Saudade

How was the statement clear? Im not saying it was necessarily scummy, but it left alot to be desired.

This seems more bad play to me than alignment indicative

Scummy twitchy or towny twitchy

It'a my first game outside of a newbie setting. How does a twitchy act?

just a britisism, means there quick to act or jumpy.

VOTE: saudade
Gut is pinging me here.

might be as i read ahead a bit before jumping back to try and follow logic chains... but I wasn't feeling any redness from Saudade

@Saudade - should we vote Rocky or Dough?

Both are worthy of being voted right now.

FOS: Flavor Leaf, Just not keen on how his first post (that wasn't a blank RVS vote) was budding up to someone who was definitely trending Green.

VOTE: ManateeDude

Gutscum

I've seen scum self vote in RVS more than town.

Hello, everyone. I am moderately new to Mafia.

VOTE: profii

Town negative utility should claim.

Wtf is this

Selflynch is gamethrow unless you're jester/mime

Oh wait you're just noob okay

oh no

This feels weird

VOTE: Saudade

I mean this is one of the worst posts I've seen in a while
absolutely null with a "feels weird" vote at the end

Yeah I agree that its such a lot of null

I dont know, Rocky's post seems to be of no substance but to announce themselves into the game "casually"

Fair, but why is that more likely to come from scum than town?

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

So... as mentioned he entered being paly towards Saudade who I have a nice green vibe off of, then proceeds to question everything he says..
It just.. doesn't gel with me like... its just off... feels off.. I expect someone with more experiance can more eloquently put this train of thought.

VOTE: Saudade

Serious vote

I dislike this on principal. You have a serious vote for someone but give no context or reasoning behind this. how are we meant to iso and get reads on you if you won't give your reasoning and express your idea's

I think my responses are the most natural ones on this site

Why would you be trying to look neutral.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8ws_APXilE
But I think your coming off helpful and are contributing to the game

I'm inclined to vote whoever didnt post yet as these people annoy me the most

Missed this

UNVOTE:

This doesn't negate me wanting your reasoning by the by.

VOTE: Krazy

Serious vote.

what even is... give a reason for this >_<


So overall Im getting the following reads currently

Bad green: Doughboy - Generally I can't see his posts being used my reds to push greens, just seems too flaily
Green leaning: Saudade - Helpful and contributing
Red leaning: Flavor Leaf - Complicated, I just dislike his interactions overall

The others I have no strong reads on so, post more if you would.

[Naomi-Tan]

For Clarity when people are reading back

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Naomi-Tan]

Reading up again. Just wanted to address this now as I'm sure it can aid discussion down the road. when I catch up.

Your entire case on me is based on me coming into the game voting someone who you are pinging green. It was the top of page 2.
It was an RVS vote. This is further proven by when Saudade gets wagoned, I move off of him onto someone else.

Okay, I wasn't even looking at that joke vote. Joke votes are inherently non-alignment indicative this can be backed up with;

[quote="In post 95

@Saudade - should we vote Rocky or Dough?

Both are worthy of being voted right now.

FOS: Flavor Leaf, Just not keen on how his first post (that wasn't a blank RVS vote) was budding up to someone who was definitely trending Green.
[/quote]
As shown in this post I entirely Disregard the vote referencing the quoted article as his first post.

Given the rest of;

Lol.

You wanna play hardball? Let’s go.

Your entire case on me is based on me coming into the game voting someone who you are pinging green. It was the top of page 2.
It was an RVS vote. This is further proven by when Saudade gets wagoned, I move off of him onto someone else.

Out of this player list, and history with Saudade, of course I’m going to RVS Saudade. I feel even he saw that as a nothing RVS vote, and when he posted “this is all Flavor’s fault” I felt a little giddy, because his wagon was obviously not going to be hard pushed at that point, and he knew my vote was RVS.

It was literally my first post in the game, and the top of page 2.

And you quoted a post i said asking Saudade a question about why it’s more likely to come from scum than town and assuming I am pushing Saudade as scum?

I’m not pushing Saudade as scum. In fact, if you want to look at my other posts, you can clearly see I was trying to work WITH Saudade about the people who were voting him after me. Saudade is an early town read for me right now.

Literally every single point you just true to make against me has been made completely moot, which personally, I feel was already an incredibly reach case made a step context clues and my posts show that literally nothing you said was accurate.

You also hid it in the middle of your giant fluff post.

VOTE: Naomi

This isn’t an OMGUS. You don’t have a case on me. You aren’t scum reading me. All those reasons have been proven the opposite.

So yeah... This is either a missrep, or just a miss understanding. Take 2.

[Naomi-Tan]

@Saudade - should we vote Rocky or Dough?

Both are worthy of being voted right now.

FOS: Flavor Leaf, Just not keen on how his first post (that wasn't a blank RVS vote) was budding up to someone who was definitely trending Green.

Totally messed up this quote.

[Naomi-Tan]

might be as i read ahead a bit before jumping back to try and follow logic chains... but I wasn't feeling any redness from Saudade

But I was hence the vote. His reactions don’t feel genuine to me and he’s got a bad attitude so that pings me.

what even is... give a reason for this >_<

We are neighbors and his first attempt at game discussion is asking if I’m a Pr. Since I don’t know his alignment and he supposedly doesn’t know mine, that is a question that should never be asked.

I am entirely confused as to why a D1 role claim this early partially when revealing 2 roles Also what is this whole Pr part there..

like you should of evaded some how. It would of looked worse but its better than this.. and yes I would of pressured you but man... this just blows to read.. I wasn't even fishing here It was just questioning a vote you could of even just given a light reasoning from his advances on you.. this.. just sucks..

[Naomi-Tan]

I town read Saudade for our Page 3 conversation mainly.

Also, Naomi pushed some of my quotes saying I was scum reading Saudade from that page, while in actuality, I was legit working WITH Saudade to try and come to a collective read on someone.

Naomi is discrediting collective thought process.

This is a scum slot, and she thought she could turn the game into her favor and become town leader with her big wall post, which I completely dismantled, by the way, and she has zero actual reads on me now.

Again, I eagerly await what she makes up to push me further.

I didn't use the term scum nor did I imply you was red reading Saudade. (the following are the quoted 3 sections regarding FL)

Naomi-Tan"]

@Saudade - should we vote Rocky or Dough?

Both are worthy of being voted right now.

FOS: Flavor Leaf, Just not keen on how his first post (that wasn't a blank RVS vote) was budding up to someone who was definitely trending Green.

I dont know, Rocky's post seems to be of no substance but to announce themselves into the game "casually"

Fair, but why is that more likely to come from scum than town?

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

So... as mentioned he entered being paly towards Saudade who I have a nice green vibe off of, then proceeds to question everything he says..
It just.. doesn't gel with me like... its just off... feels off.. I expect someone with more experiance can more eloquently put this train of thought.

Red leaning: Flavor Leaf - Complicated, I just dislike his interactions overall

[Naomi-Tan]

As a little additional comment. I also do not see how 95 has been 'completely dismantled' by leaf. As of post 107 he didn't comment at all on anything in post 95 that was about other players.

[Naomi-Tan]

Also, I wanna get back to the “budding up to someone who was definitely trending green”.

I was already starting to want to work with Saudade, which means I saw there as town, why wouldn’t I want to work with my fellow townspeople.

This is a blatant trying to disrupt townies from working alongside each other because that’s what ends scum teams.

Absolutely zero reasons you have for scum reading now that your entire case just blew up, so again...

Eager to see what you create to continue pushing me. I really am. I hope you’re creative with it, and don’t get sloppy with your fabricating next time.

this is nearer the core of what I was looking at.

As Green you don't know if someone is green or not until you get some soft reads, do a bit of interaction. you know the usual stuff.

on your second post you entered basically treating them near confirmed. this may be you knowing there meta as you have eluded to, but I am not aware of either of your meta's so on this part I can only take your word (or read other games, but Im a slow reader)

I could see you acting more friendly by the bottom of page 3 where you and him share discussion and where I got my town vibe from him, but your green read on him pre-dates things I would say are very alignment indicative.

If your red of course you would know alignment ahead of time and given your past history you may of decided to establish a positive relationship with a player you know is a stronger one on the site. but this is only true in an environment where you are red of course, though post 52 may have eluded to past activities on post 95 I had not noticed it.

So.. I found your level of comfort with green Saudade alarming upon entering. then as I had seen the rest of page 3 continued I felt your level of cooperation was abnormal for people who should have base line suspicions as we work each other out.

[Naomi-Tan]

Also covering 107 and 119
specifically these two lines;

Naomi is discrediting collective thought process.

This is a blatant trying to disrupt townies from working alongside each other because that’s what ends scum teams

Now looking at 95 again specifically where I voted.;

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

So... as mentioned he entered being paly towards Saudade who I have a nice green vibe off of, then proceeds to question everything he says..
It just.. doesn't gel with me like... its just off... feels off.. I expect someone with more experiance can more eloquently put this train of thought.

Obviously I put it in slightly more clear terms since as I still couldn't quite put my finger on it at the time.
I don't think I was saying anything along the lines of what he is accusing me of in 107 and 119 and on reading it I could see how it could be taken as "107//119 though my intent was merely to highlight the friendly discourse so early when we should be suspicious still is, in its self, suspicious

[Naomi-Tan]

I town read Saudade for our Page 3 conversation mainly.

I don’t really see anything alignment indicative in that exchange. Overall his posts have been scummy. Please explain what you see that’s townie cause I don’t understand

I also had this read (as shown on 95) Would you also like me to explain when i reach the present? (also it is strange you didn't question me in 98 for saying the same thing in 95 he does in 121, but I guess thats just oversight)

[Naomi-Tan]

so nobody else is going to vote Krazy?

Can somebody explain why town Krazy asks that as his first game related question? He could have literally asked anything else. What am I missing?

I can attempt to (my read is null on krazy)

The way I look at it, is its NAI. If they are green or red asking that right out the gate to an unconfirmed will likely never get an answer and only divide your team up. building up suspicion instead of waiting until late D1, when your at risk of being lynched or when everyone is announcing roles, that would be the time to ask. Asking when they did though hurts green by weaking the trust in the role over all it does nothing for reds cause why would you even answer... I can't find a logical reason for this tbh.

[Naomi-Tan]

Read the player based on if you find them townie or scummy, don’t focus on being in the neighborhood makes them more likely, that’s just outguessing the mod.

Also, I don’t feel like getting into it with Naomi right now. It wasn’t a misrep. I see what you meant now, the rest still stands because why wouldn’t try to work with people I town read? Especially if it’s a player I already know.

Just gonna roll this into 159

[Naomi-Tan]

But Naomi’s response was incredibly lackluster, and focused on one thing, and just didn’t care to acknowledge any of the rest.

Happy with my vote. Her non existent scum read is obvious at this point.

That last post was far less confident than her last wall as well which is a scum trying to piece together a case to try and fix their trajectory.

I think 134 made it quite clear I was reading up.

Additionally, Not every post needs to be a wall covering many topics. I tend to do those as more bulk read updates.

[Naomi-Tan]

am entirely confused as to why a D1 role claim this early partially when revealing 2 roles Also what is this whole Pr part there..

I mean you asked me why I voted didn’t you? If I refused your reason that would have just created more drama. I’d rather just be honest and open.

like you should of evaded some how. It would of looked worse but its better than this..

Worse than what? Neighbors aren’t power roles. They are of no help to town. Even if he didn’t ask me that question I wouldn’t talk game with him until I was felt he was town. I never understood neighbors. Personally don’t care for them and if that makes me a nk target, better me than a real PR.

Okay you was unconfirmed. but this is a mini-game In my experience mini-setups tend towards 2 town neighbors. Assuming your both town I also conclude there is a way to confirm alignments within our ranks (gunsmith / cop) though I am not claiming it.

IF YOU ARE SAID ROLES; DO NOT CONFIRM MY THEORY. DO NOT ROLECLAIM UNTIL YOU HAVE INFORMATION. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT ROLECLAIM NOW

Well now that Im certain they won't do that I'll continue

The reason I think this is, why make two players unconfirmed with the ability to communicate without having a way to trust that player in the setup. The other thing I can imply is krazy has no secondary role, as I can't see the setup having 2 masons with PR and if he had one why ask?

But thats just setup stuff. The other reason is reds. If your both green you just told the reds that you two have an advantage over other players and killing you shuts down 1 Role. (though mason ghost writer would be super fun) Though its not as great as a cop, mason/neighbor is super useful is used correctly as it can be used to setup baits and im sure there are other advantages i am forgetting that comes with a private chat line. including influencing the red team. by suggesting things to them (if you know there red) thats more likely to get them on a bad wagon.

[Naomi-Tan]

Read the player based on if you find them townie or scummy, don’t focus on being in the neighborhood makes them more likely, that’s just outguessing the mod.

Also, I don’t feel like getting into it with Naomi right now. It wasn’t a misrep. I see what you meant now, the rest still stands because why wouldn’t try to work with people I town read? Especially if it’s a player I already know.

Just gonna roll this into 159

What

... ah I see.. used the wrong number

On a second read though im gonna split that number up.

154 covers my more indepth reasoning on voting
156 covers the whole town shouldn't talk issue.

[Naomi-Tan]

"Green leaning: Saudade - Helpful and contributing"

Naomi can you tag the posts that are helpful

was this a question? on post 95 (basically looking at pages 2 and 3 here)

32 offered a chance at dialogue in order to try and move things out of RVS, unfortunately I was afk at the time, though I did respond in 95, it was kinda just a mute point as I was to trying to foster discussion.

38 shows critical thinking and trying to work out the game

... most of his posts was just either examining content, explaining his views, you know normal green behaviour and I liked it.

[Naomi-Tan]

There is one more thing I'd like to touch on, that is supporting my thoughts on Red!Leaf. and thats his weird certainty while being uncertain. In my mind, if someone votes you and your not really sure what there on about you'd ask them to explain.

95 was my first message.
In 97 leaf is certain it has something to do with his RVS vote. (which I reply in 134 )
in 107 he switches to thinking I believed he was red reading someone. (which I respond in 149
in 119 he finally arrives at near enough the destination to give some kinda answer (which I answer in 154 )

Thinking on it over the course of designing this post (and doing the one I did before this as I stopped mid way) I think this is more a tell that is in my head, but I'm still gonna post it as this is a handy little quick link navigation menu for the points of discussion.

[Naomi-Tan]

im gonna stick around for another 40m then im heading bed (as long as I don't get too distracted.)

[Naomi-Tan]

@Krazy
@Doughboy

Analyse Naomi ?

... You have said a total of 15 words this entire game.

VOTE: profii

Start contributing

[Naomi-Tan]

I have half a mind to confirm your theory

*facepalm*

Okay... so the only way to 'confirm my theory' would been to claim cop or gunsmith, Which if I'm reading that correctly you just did despite my repeated warnings not to. So... I revealed 3 of our PR's to reds on the first day... without trying to on the first account and after explicitly and clearly asking people not to on the second account..

[Naomi-Tan]

But Naomi’s response was incredibly lackluster, and focused on one thing, and just didn’t care to acknowledge any of the rest.

Happy with my vote. Her non existent scum read is obvious at this point.

That last post was far less confident than her last wall as well which is a scum trying to piece together a case to try and fix their trajectory.

I think 134 made it quite clear I was reading up.

Additionally, Not every post needs to be a wall covering many topics. I tend to do those as more bulk read updates.

CHAnging the subject here. I didn’t bring up the lack of wall. I brought up the lack of confidence. You hesitated. You were setting up a trajectory path here to try and change lanes.

Literally every single one of your initial case is moot proving you are forcing a scum read now based on pointless reasons. This is another irrelevant post that was trying to defend yourself, but did it in a way that wasn’t defending what was accused at you. You just said it in a defending manner.

You have been setting up a change of trajectory, and it’s not organic nor is it townie.

Now you are stuck in a 1v1 with me because you see you screwed up, and if you back off, you’re gonna be screwed too.

Right now, you’re scum who thinks they can mislynch me.

Good luck with that I rarely get mislynched despite my seemingly mislynch bait behavior.

Wait... you think;

I dont know, Rocky's post seems to be of no substance but to announce themselves into the game "casually"

Fair, but why is that more likely to come from scum than town?

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

So... as mentioned he entered being paly towards Saudade who I have a nice green vibe off of, then proceeds to question everything he says..
It just.. doesn't gel with me like... its just off... feels off.. I expect someone with more experiance can more eloquently put this train of thought.

Red leaning: Flavor Leaf - Complicated, I just dislike his interactions overall

[/quote]

Was confident? i mean.. I'd heavily disagree, Its weak and it even included a plea for a more experienced player to work out why I had this weird feeling.

And I’ve already stated that I see everyone as town from rather than null read them. I’ve said this at least 5 times on site, possibly upwards of 15 times, so i can prove that if you’d like me to go search for all that, but I’d rather not, so yes, i would assume they’re green with that mindset.

I’ve already stated that this game too, so that’s just another meaningless argument you had to pile on top.

Yeah but that makes absolutely no sense, how can you trust another player without learning there alignment. You can't just assume everyone's green It just makes it easier for the reds to gain your trust and mislead you for the start of the game and remove you once they cotton on and I get meta reads help you a bit, but If your not around late game and damaging early game then its a win-win for team Red.


Also.. your green.

If you was red I think the train on me would of been vastly bigger by now, but it seems that everyone is just keeping out of it as its too risky of a maneuver

[Naomi-Tan]

what is this neighbor thing you guys keep bringing up, whats that?

might be as i read ahead a bit before jumping back to try and follow logic chains... but I wasn't feeling any redness from Saudade

But I was hence the vote. His reactions don’t feel genuine to me and he’s got a bad attitude so that pings me.

what even is... give a reason for this >_<

We are neighbors and his first attempt at game discussion is asking if I’m a Pr. Since I don’t know his alignment and he supposedly doesn’t know mine, that is a question that should never be asked.

he role claimed.

[Naomi-Tan]

I know there's no way to prove this, but I wrote 207 before 205 and when I accidently posted 205 I did the others with that same time stamp as I panicked as I wasn't meant to send off 207 before as It made no sense why I was vote switching without 206 and 207's content.

[Naomi-Tan]

he role claimed.

Serious question. Do you REALLY believe he missed it?

Also thoughts on krazy’s lack of content. You voted profli but I don’t see you mentioning krazy’s no content.

Right now Im just reading krazy as kinda having low morale after there joke so critically backfired, they are communicating at least and have at least done 3x as much as profii.

[Naomi-Tan]

Right now Im just reading krazy as kinda having low morale after there joke so critically backfired, they are communicating at least and have at least done 3x as much as profii.

Show me this 3x more. I can’t wait to see that.

Imo he hasn’t done anything at all. 1 game related post and it was weak. Asking for a game where scum voted in rvs? What for? To confirm something most people with mafia experience know is true?

So link me to his other useful posts please.

203 words 1,071 characters is how much krazy has posted.

31 words 196 characters Is how much Prof posted.

So Its not x3 its closer to x5 on character count or x7 on word count, and this did include there latest posts.

[Naomi-Tan]

Im not saying krazy is good. Im just saying prof is worse on the giving reads and discussion front.

[Naomi-Tan]

More words doesn’t = more content though.

Both slots are void of useful content. Krazy hasn’t done anything to help find scum yet. Profli hasn’t either.

Yup pretty much my thoughts on the matter

I'm not Crimson, but I feel like expecting Crimson to answer that question before Manatee gives a response would defeat the purpose of Crimson pushing Manatee in the first place.

scummiest post

VOTE: light ethos

well hello

What? you pointed at something and are like "This is red" but give no reason why its red and expect everyone to agree? also why would you find your quoted post red. If its a reaction test and the player has identified it as much saying to the red team in there thread that they its a reaction test don't fall for it is 1000% more beneficial. your "scummiest post" is NAI at best.

Daytalk is enabled. This means all game PTs are open at all times.

Also putting that there incase anyone is confused why I know there is day talk.

[Naomi-Tan]

Yup pretty much my thoughts on the matter

But you just tried to argue Krazy has done 3x more stuff this game which makes this a contradiction...

God you make my head hurt.

3x0 is still 0

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm not Crimson, but I feel like expecting Crimson to answer that question before Manatee gives a response would defeat the purpose of Crimson pushing Manatee in the first place.

scummiest post

VOTE: light ethos

also nothing!

What? you pointed at something and are like "This is red" but give no reason why its red and expect everyone to agree? also why would you find your quoted post red. If its a reaction test and the player has identified it as much saying to the red team in there thread that they its a reaction test don't fall for it is 1000% more beneficial. your "scummiest post" is NAI at best.

[Naomi-Tan]

what is this neighbor thing you guys keep bringing up, whats that?

might be as i read ahead a bit before jumping back to try and follow logic chains... but I wasn't feeling any redness from Saudade

But I was hence the vote. His reactions don’t feel genuine to me and he’s got a bad attitude so that pings me.

what even is... give a reason for this >_<

We are neighbors and his first attempt at game discussion is asking if I’m a Pr. Since I don’t know his alignment and he supposedly doesn’t know mine, that is a question that should never be asked.

he role claimed.

who role claimed? and why?
and what's the neighbors role description

Its in the quotes you quoted at me.

[Naomi-Tan]

On the Saudade vs Doughboy thing; in 95 I said he was dumb town and he only confirmed it immediately in 96 with the roleclaim. I just touch wanna touch on it. I just find he got triggered way too easily, though asking to replace was a little too far.

I actually think Naomi is scum, though. Rather strong scum, she just didn’t expect me to be able to fight back.

The fact no one joined in actually lends me to believe she’s scum even more, which i could see Frank also fitting the bill as being a scum who helped derail it in that case, actually...

That’s a pre flip, though

Its strange to me that no one joined either of our trains.. if we had kept pushing on each other it would of resulted in one of us flipping green and then the next day they could flip the pressure and knocked us both out. It feels really strange that our train was basically ignored by everyone else.

[Naomi-Tan]

Still in the midst of reading what happened yesterday evening, but so far I'm leaning town on FlavorLeaf for the emphatic, well-substantiated defense halfway through the thread. Scum would do this too, but my gut tells me it's town. I also town-read Naomi-Tan for Post #95. I have Saudade as town-lean for Post #199.

I lean scum on Krazy for fishing for power-roles in the Neighborhood chat according to Dough and Crimson. I don't see how that would be more beneficial for town to know than for mafia to know, and Neighbors aren't any more likely to be town than scum unless the Mod decides that they are. Maybe it really was just an attempt to break the ice, as Krazy claims. I don't think that question is a good way to go about breaking the ice. There is also asymmetry between joking about asking if someone is a power role and joking about asking if someone is mafia. Nobody is going to answer yes to the second question. It's unlikely, but there is a nonzero chance of someone answering yes to the first. This really rubs me the wrong way.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Krazy

Full-disclosure: I am still somewhat new to Mafia, so I may have misinterpreted the interactions I linked.

I can appreciate a good Krazy vote right now.

I don’t think Krazy is scum however, but I see why people would think that, and I don’t find it scummy to vote there right now.

(Hint: I’m definitely wanting to see who votes Krazy)

(Second Hint: I’m definitely wanting to see who does what now after I gave that hint.)

Eh.. I dunno how i feel about a krazy train. While I agree it was astronomically dumb to open with that when not confirmed alignment I dunno if its alignment indicative. to me its like the whole thing is just a mess. Could one of you two explain why its a red move and not just a universally shitty move?

[Naomi-Tan]

FOS on white ethos.

What does FOS stand for?

Finger of Suspicion.

[Naomi-Tan]

FOS on white ethos.

What does FOS stand for?

Finger of Suspicion.

which means They think there suspicious but don't want to vote (either as they are pressuring another party or its not strong enough for them to put there vote down.

[Naomi-Tan]

Vote Count 1.3

profii (2) -

Light Ethos #23

,

Naomi-Tan #205

FrankJaeger (2) -

Saudade #241

,

Krazy #315

ManateeDude (2) -

ManateeDude #6

,

Crimson97 #18

Saudade (2) -

Doughboy #231

,

FrankJaeger #239

Naomi-Tan (1) -

Flavor Leaf #97

Krazy (1) -

Light Ethos #297

Light Ethos (1) -

profii #218

UNVOTE/Not Voting (3) -

Pernicious Parrot #138

,

The Worst

RockyHorror

#320

,

Sashaddin #357

Full vote history is in the OP.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-09-17 20:00:00)

Mod Notes

Doughboy is V/LA for (expired on 2018-09-08 20:00:00).

Light Ethos has a double vote.

Or the mod is making a mistake which I think it what happened here

MOD: Fix VC above please

Acknowledged; thank you. Fixing now.

[Naomi-Tan]

I need to look into Light Ethos. But don't have the time right now for a big psot

[Naomi-Tan]

Hi all, reading up right now as I have 30m or so should have a better post at some stage tonight when im back home (or sooner if my plans get canceled)

I mean you are voting Light Ethos right now and he doesn't look too bad to me
remains calm when you voted, outs reads, blahblahblah participates

Can you explain to me your read on Light Ethos at this stage?

[Naomi-Tan]

UNVOTE:
I wanna reevaluate who I think is the most red leaning once I re-read.

[Naomi-Tan]

Green: Naomi, Doughboy, Profii,

Krazy

Null: Flavor, Parrot, Saudade
Red: ...?

Adding Krazy to green. All his ISO seems town to me.
Also having a feeling about putting Saudade to green and Doughboy to null/red but I'll have to reread some key posts tomorrow, now my head hurts and those two played ping pong for a few pages. I'll have to take a deeper look at my null reads again too.

There is a large gap between newbie level and this game!

eh... not sure how i feel about being listed green after not posting other than a promise to post for a day and not having a decent contribution for two. (I count 95 as my last major post)
also not sure how I feel about someone having no redish reads at least. Or having parrot as null when they done nothing... I.. hmm.... I'm gonna give the benafit of the doubt and say this is a new player thing and im just being paranoid i think.

[Naomi-Tan]

I actually think Krazy is probably town too.

the gap in Sasha's posting compared to the last game we played together makes me think he's more than randomly town

this game is probably burned via PoE but I'm also being rly lazy lmao

Im home now and have a wee bit of time.

Whats PoE I've entirely forgotten that term its been so long since my last game.

[Naomi-Tan]

I guess right now i'm scumleaning on Mana just because of that lack of reaction but he hasn't done anything to completely convince me he's scum.

Im probably gonna get roasted for this but, ... I think Crimsons hard push on a lurker is a bit over zealous.. dunno feels a little forced to me and LaL (If Im remembering my Acronym correctly) Is a very safe lynch overall.. I just don't think all these different lurkers can all be reds. else whats the red teams plan? to watch us tear each other apart.. I just dunno really.. On one hand not actively contributing is Anti-town but not in the fun way.. hold on ..

oh jeez this is a crazy thing... Gonna need a seperate post maybe.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay, so heres a thing. I think Crimson97 and Light Ethos are connected some how.

for 3 main reasons.

Firstly. they never directly interact other than in support of each other
Secondly. there votes / pushes seem coordinated as they happen relatively close to one another.
Thirdly. there post sizes and frequency are similar in the case of they say a little bit rarely to seem productive, but are not big posters (when I said I should look into Light Ethos for example he had 6 posts which lacked content overall)

going through the timeline;

18 Crimson: votes manatee
20 Crimson: If red this could be a setup for later to be like "yeah im not great at reading him" (of course greens can also do this as it may be true)
23

Light Ethos: While voting profili also puts pressure on Manatee

41

Light Ethos: Mentions crimson but asks no questions or anything (this is the post that Profili called the worst post)

188 Crimson: Confirms Light ethos's theory in a positive manner, but asks no questions
297

Light ethos: Takes an easy stance vs crazy safe vote. also gives reads but doesn't mention Crimson, says that saudade is green

345 & 346* Crimsons first post since Light ethos said Saudade is a green read they also say there a green read (456)
368

Light Ethos: Returns to voting Profili after nothing comes of kraz but keeps the pressure on them a bit always stating they don't see them as green

413

Light ethos: asks a question directly to Crimson. but in the same post also acknowledges someone is actively hunting lurkers so might of been an attempt to generate some activity {could also be a green action}

(Starting to think I was just putting together bits that don't quite fit now.)
418

Light ethos: comes out and defends Crimson

(so maybe there is a connection there and light ethos is just keeping them at arms length.)
451 Crimson97: suggests that frank could be manatee's red buddy. Marks a 'safe' vote by remarking on the word twisting thing.
457

Light ethos: says vote on Profili is "didn't seem to pay much mind to the possibility of Frank being scum"

This looks fabricated, as he didn't even mention frank in his vote post or for another 2 posts after that (or 5 hours later) so that doesn't really match up timeline wise. Vote post is: 368 and the post mentioning frank is 418
504

Light ethos: this is the first time They are in disagreement and its rather recent.

*(wrapping them as its a double post)
these have been clipped down to just the common links and are my interpretations.

I'm gonna vote Light for now. I just find this whole lining up thing weird and kinda sketchy. also dislike 457's timeline and am still struggling to sort most people out.
VOTE: Light ethos

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: Frank

please explain this vote, why you find them red, what posts stick out to you. blank votes are useless, or just give something more than this!


Also for those wondering Im not read up. I just saw the link and hunted that down.

[Naomi-Tan]

Krazy, I sure hope you arent trying to jump on me to get the attention off of yourself. Your vote on me is kinda bad

Interesting theory but agreed about his bad vote.

Okay this post made me think of something weird. I don't think its true though im gonna share;

What if .. They are a red neighbour.

So your red, and your partner asks you if you have a PR and you reveal it to the thread that makes them look really bad, and you've lost nothing as red already knew this. Its just a weird theory. I don't think its true though as the rest of the posts are green but It had crossed my mind.

[Naomi-Tan]

my partners are somewhere in {dough, parrot, naomi, lethos, crim, frank, mana} and maybe fl

well this is a read list;

what are your thoughts of each person in the list and what made you think of that.


to explain my read on the worst. right now I have them a solid null, they was actively ignoring the push on them and they replaced into the thread about 300 posts in and its been less than 2 days. depending on life stuff they might be catching up. I know I'm still behind and I been here from the start. They have some minor stuff such as saying they got reads on X and Y but I haven't had chance to ask more about them... so why not now.

The worst assuming you've read up by now could you explain;

townbloc: tw, profii

rock and roll

Where your profil read comes from (why you think there green)

there's stuff about Parrot I can go into a little later

Is now later?

ugh dough is scummy but probably not scum with frank

not disagreeing but what is your reasoning for both of them being red?

my reads are like

town : tw, Krazy, profii, sasha, dosage
town? : Flavor Leaf, Parrot, Naomi
not town : Doughboy, Light Ethos, Crimson97, FrankJaeger, ManateeDude

and i'm kinda biding my time for certain things for a couple more sorts because this doesn't feel won by poe

then i iso and find a REAL read list. could you give your reasonings on your not town list. also on Parrot if its later. ignore the other request as this is a more serious one and my earlier request was fishing for reads.

[Naomi-Tan]

I need to look into Light Ethos. But don't have the time right now for a big psot

It looks like you took a shortcut here. profii is pushing me at the time of this post. You then got busy and said that you would come back later looking for the scummiest person.

UNVOTE:
I wanna reevaluate who I think is the most red leaning once I re-read.

You now come back voting me because you allege that I'm connected to someone. This feels like shoddy detective work. Where is your analysis of the other things that have happened since then? I'm not expecting you to come back, reread everything, and have a full response on all that happened immediately. However, I do expect you to have considered these things before choosing someone to vote for. What you did does not strike me as town.

if you had read 355 you'd see im not caught up. Also at the time I posted about looking into you I believe my vote was on Profil. The reason I wanted to look into you was I did a quick iso and saw 6 posts and most of them wasn't doing much, no real read list or content so made a note to look into you when I got time. stumbling into the crimosn thing just noticing how things lined up. I been trying to make groups of players I can work out from interactions for example If dough flips red then sau is green, or vice versa. (though I think there both green, that's just an example)

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay now Im all read up just wanted to do a quick read list

Crimson97: Yeah dislike this hard push since the start of the game on a lurker who has done practically nothing. its really safe, but also rather icky and the whole thing in 554 has me freaked out

Doughboy: bad town, but also a little paranoid that hes the last part of the Crimson, Light trinity. I haven't done an iso to see how that all lines up as i'm running out of time but there was one thing that pingged me (the same one that made me come up with the theory that there red) I don't think its true but its like a nagging at the back of my mind

Flavor leaf: our little fight at the start of the game and the fact no one joined or cared about that train makes me think I engaged a TvT so I think there Green

Frankjaeger: No idea.. Null i guess? I just dunno about them at all right now, lots of people been saying stuff but I dunno.. probs need to give them an iso and update you next time I get a moment

Krazy: said a dumb joke, might be green, might be red. null right now need more out of them to make a clear choice but I do appreciate there position at least, making dumb choices has gotten me a lot of heat before.

Light ehtos: lurking with safe stuff and the weird crimson connection.. keeping my vote here for now

ManateeDude: this guy has been largely absent but not in a red way. there not coming in doing a single post with like a paragraph everyday or so for example it seems like guinange apathy or busyness, wouldn't be shocked if they replace out due to not having the time to commit, not that im advocating for that, hopefully they can be more active over the weekend.

Pernicious Parrot: can't remember them at all, so obviously they need to be more active. I would rather have them make a big catch up post than be disappointed by like 1 comment somewhere in the future.

Profil: converse more

Sashaddin: definitely get a lost vibe from them, but thats okay given there still learning. hope that they find there place and work things out before there lack of experience catches up to them. most likely to be a D3 push by red (if they are not red).

Saudade: eh kinda flipped out at the worst, probably frustrated town right now but I don't want to get involved.

The worst: Maybe green? I can tell there catching up and stuff given they questioned stuff on page 2 yesterday and I still don't think there upto present properly. giving them a little bit of space for now. i can see them engaging with others and trying to question people but we'll see how they respond to my post earlier.

Profil again: Well that was a fun joke. I think there contributing okay though. I dunno if the 2 words thing is a post restriction or a self imposed thing but they do seem to be pointing at stuff and the 2 words are kinda working for me. they could definitely be talking more and I think it would be beneficial to do so, but I've come around from disliking it to finding it okay. you can see a thought process is going on so I guess thats effective in its own way. I just wish they would more actively engage in stuff.

[Naomi-Tan]

Profil could you confirm you have a role related post redirection with either"i'm restricted" or if your not restricted by role then say as much.

Yes this is asking if they have a restriction, but it doesn't benefit red to know one of us has a typing restriction and will help contextualize things for green so I think its worth asking.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay going to be honest. no reason not to be; Profil's post did influence my desire to iso Light back when I posted about looking into light. I dunno why but I iso'd you before I made that post and saw 6 posts and saw 2 of them was really early NAI stuff and the rest could be skirting, so wished to do a more indepth look at that before I came to any conclusions.

[Naomi-Tan]

@Naomi: Thank you for the read list.

I would like you to answer my pushback. Please substantiate your claim that my Post 41 and Post 418 support Crimson. I don't trust Crimson any more than you do, and I believe that your case against me falls apart if you can't substantiate it.

Also a question for you since many people have you down as town: how do you feel about a Day 1 policy lynch? Your comments seem like you're against it, but I'd like to hear what you have to say about it. I'm still leaning toward you being town, but your quickness to cast a vote before you even finished rereading the thread does not feel town motivated. If I'm wrong about leaning town on you, it's because I put too much weight on my perception of your interaction with Flavor Leaf as being town vs. town.

41 Light Ethos: Mentions crimson but asks no questions or anything (this is the post that Profili called the worst post)

I say nothing about supporting on 41.

Crimson was trying to get some pressure on a player he knew. You asked him why. He gives a veiled answer about him being difficult to read. This should be enough back and forth until manatee responds. Instead, Frank comes in and wants more detail in finding out why manatee is being pressured.

My post 41 asserts that Frank's question defeats Crimson's purpose. I don't think there is anything wrong with Manatee receiving pressure at that point, and I think page 2 is a bit too early for players to have reason to undermine other players' pressure.

In this post (in the section highlighted) you defend his position saying there was nothing wrong with the pressure he was giving at that time in the game.

[Naomi-Tan]

As for PL, I'm generally against it there are more reds than greens so a shot in the dark isn't great. if we have to lynch though I'd rather go for someone who is at least trying to look active while not contributing much over someone who is literally doing nothing.

[Naomi-Tan]

Why do you find me more suspicious than Crimson if your gripe with me is being "safe" and being connected to Crimson? It seems that your gripe with Crimson is that he's being safe in pushing and tunneling on someone who hasn't posted in a few days. Shouldn't you logically then go after the source of the problem?

eh its about 50-50 I'm mostly freaked out with the votes and pressure trending nearly identically from the start of the game and I started from looking up you and theres the time thing where it looks like you retroactively applied a reason for voting, so... your kinda trending just for the frank post.

You express disdain for votes you deem safe. If you don't want a safe vote, what are you looking for instead? Separately, how do you propose to put pressure on players who aren't contributing?

Votes that are gonna contribution, start a discussion or a back and froth like I had early game. good reactions, back and frothing liking to get others to react to create a situation where peoples responses are going to better help us build a picture of who alignments are what. Safe alignments are all well and good but ones that are on the more vocal players that get reactions really help place people imo.

As for lurkers... well we can always hope they get prod/replaced so we can have active contributors but I'd rather focus on people who we can determine the alignment of more soundly and then use PoE to get rid of the lurkers based on what little they have done. thing it with active lurkers there isn't much to read back on in an iso and you can retrospec really easy

[Naomi-Tan]

Just for clarity I have no issue with the content of the pressure. It was merely displaying the relation.

Also now Krazy has some solid meta info, im more respective to lynching them if things don't turn around before the end of the day.

[Naomi-Tan]

Right heading bed, don't think i'll be very active tomorrow as its a busy day.

[Naomi-Tan]

I'll just take it as a logical extension of Newbie queue, adding a mafia player for each town player I add. If Newbie is 2 vs. 7, then I'll start by guessing that this is 4 vs. 9.

It works out at about 3 greens per a 1 red normally. So If I had to guess we have 3 Reds, 10 greens.

Frank and Flavor Leaf don't seem likely to be together.

Having done an iso to check this out as, as far as I knew there was nothing that would suggest this I can't really find substantiated reasoning behind it.

as to my previous statement
VOTE: FrankJaeger
congratulations

Flavor read @ Frank's iso
tell me what you think there

I liked Frank up until he voted you.

I don’t see how people are red’ing your reactions.
Actually, I do. It’s tone, but I don’t think it’s a scummy reaction, people just think it’s red without analyzing it.

Frank took an early early stance on TvT Naomi vs Leaf, which can be scummy, but I talked about the preventing a lynch rather than helping push one or another.

this is the only post I could find that would match up with that thought but its not really a push, its definitely showing doubt and theorising things but Its not really matching up with excluding them being together. care to explain your reasoning for this?

At the moment, my best guess after a brief review of the game is that the worst is scum with at least someone in { Manatee, Crimson, Parrot, Frank }. If I say that the worst is scum, which my vote indicates, and if I maintain that I am town, then at least one of those players is in that set is scum is roughly 78% of the time. Exactly one of them is scum about 50% of the time. More than one is scum about 28% of the time. I agree with Krazy's point about the difference between active lurking and hard lurking. My current vote, and the four players in that set have pinged me for one of those two things. They also don't show much conflict with the worst.

... I have no idea where your pulling these % from. IOA? you don't mention why there red just the stats (that I can't even work out how you got to)

I'm not too keen on 587 XD

[Naomi-Tan]

{ Manatee, Crimson, Parrot, Frank }

shouldn't of mentioned safe vote.

Okay so; this is obviously a readlist, why else select this random group of 4 players, so lets examine interactions

Obviously Crimson and Light Ethos had been kinda in sync from the start as I mentioned where I got freaked out. I can see no push on that side at all

Parrot has been lurking like a champ Light ethos has mentioned Parrot once before I played my crimson post just asking where they are,505 on 575after my post they say they agree with my read on them;

Pernicious Parrot: can't remember them at all, so obviously they need to be more active. I would rather have them make a big catch up post than be disappointed by like 1 comment somewhere in the future.

So that is the best we have for reasoning there in the red group.

Manatee: beofre crazy's post they was agreeing with my read in 565 but then after crazy's post they changed. I'm pretty sure that, thats a natural progression for both alignments so NAI (reds have an excuse to kill a lurker if there green, if mana is red its undefendable anyway. Greens can see the meta and see that's how they play as red)

Frank: So not really mentioned much at all (addressed once early on) not really given any reads on them but once again 575 to the rescue where they agree with my Null read in 565


Looking at this from a Red!Light ethos lense we have; Distancing, Null=Red(if there green) or Kill red for Town cred for an inactive(If there on the same red team), Very safe with Krazys meta data, Null=red.

Looking at it from a Green!Light ethos lense I have; More suspicious of crimson after doing an iso based on my push, Short on reds to make up the 4 red team he was metaing, Krazy's meta data is crazy good and tipped the null to red. PoE?

I dunno.. stretching for green reasoning for that pool of players.

[Naomi-Tan]

I can see no push on that side at all

just to address this before someone brings it up. by "that side at all" I'm referring to before the post I addressed a possible connection between them as after that post distancing will be in the foreground.

[Naomi-Tan]

on post 592 As I skipped back up after reading safe vote. yeah had no idea where your getting these numbers and its still IOA

[Naomi-Tan]

Personally I think the optimal play is to deal with the neighbourhood RIGHT NOW

My working theory is 2 hood dudes outed themselves and someone even said “why not masons” I’m assuming a third dude probably posted in the PT “don’t out me yet please” - simple as that

Even then all things considered

3 scum in 13 is a 23% chance of hitting scum today
1 in 3 in the hood is 33% - with the added benefit if we hit scum then we get 1 (poss 2) innos and we keep any kind of protective un-outed so we can hang on to our inno for a while

Personally I think we go for Krazy over Doughboy
Doughboy seemed legit annoyed at me that I wasn’t playing “properly”
Krazy on the other has was straight in the wiki checking for a PR potential in me which seems scummy to me

VOTE: Krazy

given krazy's leg work on manatee I'd rather lynch Manatee over Krazy, He was solely responsible for having me consider his lynch and changed Light ehtos's attitude towards the slot too at least. I think he is more useful that you think and there are better choices for today.

[Naomi-Tan]

can we go back to the_worst uhh

Naomi for all the posting you've done I can barely relate to your reads

eh that's fair, I'm not the best at convincing people of things. its just my current interpretation.

[Naomi-Tan]

can we go back to the_worst uhh

Naomi for all the posting you've done I can barely relate to your reads

wait what am I saying we can get more out of this;

Could you explain to me what reads you can't relate to and why so we can examine that.

[Naomi-Tan]

Saudade: eh kinda flipped out at the worst, probably frustrated town right now but I don't want to get involved.

The worst: Maybe green? I can tell there catching up and stuff given they questioned stuff on page 2 yesterday and I still don't think there upto present properly. giving them a little bit of space for now. i can see them engaging with others and trying to question people but we'll see how they respond to my post earlier.

what made you townread the worst?
where quote the post that made you feel hes been catching up?
where did he question people?
quote the posts or you are next after him

Lol thanks for prempting my request XD

for your first question; I guess its cause I want to give them some time to catch up, I'm not a fast reader and can understand how hard that can be but people started going at them in less than a day since they went live. I felt it was a little unfair and I feel a little sorry for them and from the other stuff I can see them trying and not getting any traction.

Here are your quotes
The catching up one is here;
(ignoring 330 )

FL what was your angle with Saudade at game start? :0

It is also a question but shows that at that stage, they was on page 2/3 before post 95 as thats where I bring it up.

Questioning is here;

So far i'm feeling Dougboy v Sausade is TvT

talk to me about why?

People I’d Pl profli and the worst

elaborate on this.

Those of course are before people started hitting them and they got defensive I just think there tilted.

[Naomi-Tan]

how is it alignment indicative anyway

Well

“I’m a regular mod so 2 post count shit is just shit and not a PR 100% so move on guys”

Seems a lot more factual and less open to speculation than something such as - 440 where he could have cleared it up way earlier than 567 where he says he knows he rules

also I believe I was the first person to directly ask about it. So.. It may be he didn't realise as much or assumed others knew as well from when you did your 3 word post by mistake.

[Naomi-Tan]

[quote="In post 619 wtf is malalignment[/quote]
Abnormal or faulty alignment. kinda fitting word XD its usually used in relation to bones by doctors.

[Naomi-Tan]

@mod Mind fixing that quote

Sorry, I prefer not to edit anything unless it's necessary as a mod action or response.

[Naomi-Tan]

Caught up again

[Naomi-Tan]

Krazy, has Manatee ever been replaced out of a Green game?

[Naomi-Tan]

Also in 12 hours time Parrot will be replaced out if he doesn't post. so that'll help us out having a new voice, as long as we give them 2 days or so to catch up.

[Naomi-Tan]

I am only reading short posts right now as im busy this saturday. I'll answer you tomorrow LE.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well its sunday so time to catch up.

{ Manatee, Crimson, Parrot, Frank }

shouldn't of mentioned safe vote.

Why? Your vote is on me. You dislike safe votes.

If you hadn't mentioned safe votes I wouldn't of specifically examined those 4 reads. As I had already moved on when you drew attention to it a second time.

Okay so; this is obviously a readlist, why else select this random group of 4 players, so lets examine interactions

It isn't a read list of mafia players and should not be taken as such. These four players are, to use Krazy's words, hard lurking or active lurking. I do not feel comfortable ending the day before we hear more from them. You seem content to prevent them from receiving pressure, electing to let them get prodded or replaced. That's a fine viewpoint, but at least one of them is likely scum. If I were to make the claim that one of them is likely scum and not support it, you would be up in arms about it. That's what the math was for. I don't know which one or ones of them it is because they don't have a long enough paper trail, but I would be very surprised if all four of them are not.

... Maybe read list isn't the most appropriate term but if your looking at a lynch within that pool of players, which in context you absolutely was, what better term is there? Lynch pool thats not red? I have no idea why you'd take issue with my terminology there.

As an additional point though, Looking back at your iso before my connection post you didn't really mention the hard lurkers and was learning on the low content players (profili, frank) those that was here but just dribbling. So given this was the first thing that looked like a potential pool of players you thought was likely to be red (75%+ for 2 of them if your math post is to be believed) and the first thing that I could really pressure that didn't come out of connection fishing I decided it was time to squeeze content out of anything I could get from you to determine alignment.

Obviously Crimson and Light Ethos had been kinda in sync from the start as I mentioned where I got freaked out. I can see no push on that side at all

No, we haven't. You thought you saw something and looked for posts to support your confirmation bias.
Some important details that you missed: I incorrectly added Crimson to the Neighborhood that Krazy and Doughboy were talking about because I misunderstood Crimson's interaction with them. I care about being factually correct, so if Crimson and I were in any kind of PT together, I definitely would have asked about that interaction before posting in this thread.
Second: I can't get the guy to answer a simple question about what his read on the interaction between you and Flavor Leaf. Surely, I could ping him in a PT to get him to crawl out of his hole and answer the question.
Third: I'm frustrated that Crimson is tunneling on someone who isn't here.

I don't trust Crimson any more than you do, and my lack of trust in Crimson came well before you came back to the thread and attacked me.
I have said nothing positive about Crimson in this entire thread. (Again, 41 and 418 are not specific to Crimson. These are positions I would hold in any game, regardless of which players were in those positions.)

Still, I'll let you do your analysis on my set of four players I want to hear more from:

Okay, so I was mostly looking at what looked like purposeful avoidance of him and both of your pressures moving together. As mentioned in my post about it you did ask a question, but this was directly after profil said they was looking at lurkers and it was on a topic that was old and pretty much settled. From my perspective it looks like you was trying to encourage content out of them to lower profil's suspicion in a safe way if they looked over your red buddy and while confirm bias may be at play, for now I'm continuing this.

Parrot has been lurking like a champ Light ethos has mentioned Parrot once before I played my crimson post just asking where they are,505 on 575after my post they say they agree with my read on them;

Pernicious Parrot: can't remember them at all, so obviously they need to be more active. I would rather have them make a big catch up post than be disappointed by like 1 comment somewhere in the future.

So that is the best we have for reasoning there in the red group.

Again, it isn't a red group, but continue. You're right here though. Parrot left without saying anything. We have a week left, and it's harder to find scum when players leave like this.

Manatee: beofre crazy's post they was agreeing with my read in 565 but then after crazy's post they changed. I'm pretty sure that, thats a natural progression for both alignments so NAI (reds have an excuse to kill a lurker if there green, if mana is red its undefendable anyway. Greens can see the meta and see that's how they play as red)

You misunderstood my reaction to your post. Before Krazy's meta read, did I think that Manatee's afk was alignment indicative? Not particularly. Would I have objections to voting him out? Absolutely not. He's been self-voting since the start of the thread and hasn't put any effort into the game. Krazy's meta read makes it even easier to see why there's a problem there.

Frank: So not really mentioned much at all (addressed once early on) not really given any reads on them but once again 575 to the rescue where they agree with my Null read in 565

I don't have a read on Frank. I said I would look into his ISO because there was a push on him, and I want to evaluate how much I agree with it. the worst's ISO looks bad enough to me that my vote is staying there until something changes. I don't see town motivation in his posts. That's important.

Most of this is just NAI nick-picking, so I'm gonna not respond to it to save my self a little bit of time.

Looking at this from a Red!Light ethos lense we have; Distancing, Null=Red(if there green) or Kill red for Town cred for an inactive(If there on the same red team), Very safe with Krazys meta data, Null=red.

Interesting. If you take red!Light Ethos, then you immediately claim Crimson's inclusion as distancing. That requires you to know that there is red!Crimson; otherwise, why would red!Light Ethos want to distance himself from a townie? If Crimson flips red this game, or if I flip green, I don't think that looks good for you. Your vote on me is largely based on a connection you've created between Crimson and me. It is possible that Green!Naomi saw something and incorrectly went with it. However, there is a valid world in which Red!Naomi does the same thing for strategic reasons:

Red!Naomi on a scum team with Red!Crimson would have a hard time defending Crimson given the current state of the game. She would benefit from creating a thin connection between a town player and indefensible Crimson.
Red!Naomi then has two favorable outcomes: A town player that is engaged in the game can be killed off, allowing her to leave the lurking town players alive longer without any opportunity cost. Her buddy Red!Crimson has time to get back into the game and look like he's been doing something. She distances herself by putting fake pressure onto Crimson through a town proxy, meaning that when Red!Crimson flips red, she's still not an immediate suspect.

I will remember this if Crimson flips red this game, and if you and I are still both alive.
Again, those four players were not my list of red players, so it's incorrect for you to claim that I'm saying Null=Red.

Okay, going from the top. It has been Well established and acknowledged by yourself in this very thread that I am linking both of you as a red team. Your little twist here to make me look bad is not a good way to convince me that you are not red.

The rest of your response to red! is just flipping the tables, though you once again stipulate that you find that list null, which still doesn't look like null to me. I actually 100% agree with two of the pool being red thanks to krazy.

I have the red team in my head down as Crimson, Light Ethos, and Manatee

Bolded for clarity to skim readers.

Looking at it from a Green!Light ethos lense I have; More suspicious of crimson after doing an iso based on my push, Short on reds to make up the 4 red team he was metaing, Krazy's meta data is crazy good and tipped the null to red. PoE?

I dunno.. stretching for green reasoning for that pool of players.

Here is some green reasoning for that pool of players: town benefits from having all players contribute to the thread. It also benefits from transparent access to thought processes and motivation of all players in the game. When town players avoid the game, they give Mafia easy choices about who to allow to live until the end of the game. Lurkers likely will not be able to return bringing significant, credible pressure against surviving Mafia. Those four players, moreso Parrot, Manatee, and Crimson, have not been doing that. I'll say it again: those players are not automatically Mafia to me. However, I don't think this day should end before they come back and contribute their thoughts on what has happened so far.

Firstly, on an entirely unrelated note. MAN was that last section terrible. Im shocked anyone could understand anything I was typing there.

Okay I doubt your reasoning, and you fortunately gave me what I was looking for even with my trash of a Green! section. The reason I doubt that your reasoning was just to drum up some activity from those lurkers is the context in which the list is given

At the moment, my best guess after a brief review of the game is that the worst is scum with at least someone in { Manatee, Crimson, Parrot, Frank }. If I say that the worst is scum, which my vote indicates, and if I maintain that I am town, then at least one of those players is in that set is scum is roughly 78% of the time. Exactly one of them is scum about 50% of the time. More than one is scum about 28% of the time.

Your saying that one or two of these lurkers must be red because of not interacting with the worse. Baring in mind that they was lurkers and as such haven't interacted with anyone Im not certain how your making the 'If the worst is red then one of these must be also' connection.

I am aware you stated it wasn't 100%, I am also aware that my previous section saying you have had two people on that list red was false due to miss remembering but I'm leaving it in as it gives insight into my current red team in my mind.

I did want to say a little more on that pool but I want a response to this lot first and I'll bring that up later as its more of a nick-pick I doubt will get much from and this post is already gonna be long.

Do you really have no idea where I'm pulling the percentages from? I left the explicit assumptions for the calculation in my post. You could quickly do the math yourself and get a different answer if you disagree. You say that you can't work out how I got to these numbers, but I don't think you even tried to.

out of curiosity I did do a bit of numbering. I went to an online fraction to % calculator and put in 3/10 (3 red, 10green) and got 30%. but as stated before the entire math argument is IOA.

I would also like to take the time to say IOA is Information Over Analysis for our newbie friend. (assuming they got this far in my post) Its a term to describe when people are giving stats and data rather than reads to support there claims.

633 XD

Oops got prodded, gimme a bit to catch up.

Why have you logged on multiple times but not posted?

Here's a good question.

Here's something that didn't need quoting

Few did that block, now to continue onwards.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: Light Ethos

well that's awkward. Give a reason please. your putting me in a weird spot with my connection web with this blank vote of nothingness.

[Naomi-Tan]

Oops got prodded, gimme a bit to catch up.

Why have you logged on multiple times but not posted?

@Manatee: Why is your vote still on yourself?

VOTE: Light Ethos

You disappeared for several days, were asked a reasonable question about what happened, and instead of answering it, you rush to vote someone without explaining yourself.
Earlier today, you said that you had a hard time sorting out whether I'm mafia or town. Suddenly, you switch to thinking that out of the two of us, Crimson is the one who is town, and I'm the one who is mafia. Reasons??

guessing this is addressing ManateeDude given the context. Which I only have to ask, at what point did ManateeDude suggest that they was deciding between the two of you as red or green. In a binary fashion as presented here. This is a partial missrep obviously as in the post referenced they didn't even mention crimson. But the question on why he switched was perfectly valid and I asked it myself.

So after all of that time saying you're going to go through this and find who pings red the most, and you come up with me.
Again, you misunderstood Post 41. That post is no defense of Crimson. You read through my ISO, so your attack on me should probably include a discussion of the main point of Post 418. Substantiate your claim that those posts defend Crimson.

The reason I keep asking Crimson about Naomi-Tan vs. Flavor Leaf is because Crimson hasn't done much of anything other than tunnel on Manatee. For a while the back and forth between you and Flavor Leaf was a significant portion of the game, and he's one of the few who hasn't commented on it.

Additionally, the reason why 457 mentions Frank specifically is because at the time that profii had his vote on me, Flavor Leaf was urging a vote on Frank and saudade observed that Frank's ISO and mine looked similar at the time. I mentioned Frank because profii was deliberately avoiding the active train while voting me for largely the same reasons. My mention of Frank had nothing to do with Crimson, and if you notice, I never voted for Frank.

Final comment on this: your vote me comes down to "here's a thing. These two people are connected." I think this post shows that we are not connected. Despite that, two people being connected is not a viable reason to think that someone is scum. If you're going to say someone is scum, give a reason for it.

If this doesn't satisfy you, we can go into it more. I'm disappointed that your return to the thread lacks analysis of why your final choice is the scummiest.

This post is making it a lot harder to read light as either alignment.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: Light Ethos

Placeholder

If we was irl and you said this as a reasoning I'd tossed a plushie or a pillow at you. gosh thats a frustrating response.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: Light Ethos

Placeholder

If we was irl and you said this as a reasoning I'd tossed a plushie or a pillow at you. gosh thats a frustrating response.

no im not done with this yet, Seriously! If you have reasonings don't just post a vote blank and type it out after thats horrific game play. you give your reasonings so others can look at them and THEN you vote, and if its unclear still cause you voted in the middle of a block of text at least make a seperate post pointing to it. this is entirely dumb and I have no idea if its NAI or not urgh >_<

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't think Naomi can help having good reads, Dosage.

Why do you think Naomi has good reads? Why do you see their reads as good and not just their reads?

I mean i do try to make my reads transparent and include the reasonings why im thinking such things and cover a whole bunch of people. I'm quite proud of my read lists when I give them.

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't think Naomi can help having good reads, Dosage.

Why do you think Naomi has good reads? Why do you see their reads as good and not just their reads?

I think he meant the opposite...
Like, she cant help me get good reads

Oh, I see how i misread that now. I was mostly just confused.

I read it as 'I like her read list, its AI and rather in depth'

[Naomi-Tan]

you outed me as a tpr.

Not particularly. This was mostly yourself claiming IMO.

[Naomi-Tan]

you are a wat now

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Gunsmith

Nauci is evil


pedit: I agree Manatee needs to back up that vote. I could be convinced to wagon there FYI.

this was a pre-made setup.

[Naomi-Tan]

Btw the duck is town so y'all can back off a touch. Scum duck does not get this tilted. He loves fakeclaims and wouldn't seem angry giving one.

this is rather bold of a statement. mind substantiating it?

[Naomi-Tan]

can we talk about LEthos openwolfing yet or

whats open wolfing?

[Naomi-Tan]

Duck you have permission to lynch the manatee or frank, light is off the table

care to explain your Green read here? I still think there red as of the post you made above.

[Naomi-Tan]

769 Is just ew, given how even me and flavour have came to the conclusion it was TvT (as well as the rest from what I gather) It reads poorly. It feels like he just ignored our posts at that time as the accusations made in 769 look like some pretty major points you'd want to bring up WAY sooner. Seeing a 'contradictory' post in the first 100 posts of the game and entirely ignoring it for over 600 other posts is just...

VOTE: Crimson

There's no way a green member would ignore this.
Also going with my hidden link theory this matches up with it, im pressuring one of them (LE) so yeah..

[Naomi-Tan]

Rebuttal:
"Traitor Game 1"
But you can see she is fully capable of doing a detailed reads list as a Scum Traitor here -- viewtopic.php?p=8643218#p8643218

My main issue with using this as a rebuttal point is that she has a lot more incentive to do a detailed reads list as scum when she is traitor since she is trying to communicate with the scum team.

To that extent I end up having mixed feelings on Naomi. Among my mixed reads, I think she flips scum before the parrot.

So... yeah just to contextual that game. I had no idea who my red partners was, I so I had no choice but to scum hunt to work them out. I was confused how to act a lot of the time and in the end I think I decided to just go hard green and fall back on that people wouldn't want me out as I had tried my hardest. ... I didn't think to communicate. so it pretty much is going to read at a green game, which I guess I'll need to be in more traitor games to build a meta as, but as far as i am aware those are a rarity over all.

[Naomi-Tan]

Why is skipping RVS and hardlurking NAI? Why is posting nothing but placeholder votes NAI? Like you're so certain that Manatee and Frank are town but you are not explaining why you reach that conclusion. I have looked at the other games of each player and I have questions about how they're approaching this game. If you think it is scummy to push those slots for that reason then you are misguided. And if you think I'm scummy because I make my lists visually appealing... anyway sure do your thing, whatever man.

I'd agree on it being NAI but its also very anti-town

Skipping RVS is cause theres nothing to gain. heck I entered trying to do something to move us out of RVS, I dislike that stage greatly as there is so little to be gained and tend towards more serious votes, though in the early frame my standards are lower for obvious reasons. In my mind RVS is gonna be NAI cause no one knows, everyone votes anyone for any reason its not really a time for quality and its hard to get a feel for alignment in that time frame

As for hard-lurking. this is actively hurtful as no one gets any idea about the slot, but not Red, just Pro-red anti-green. Active-lurking on the other hand is much more effective. Hard lurkers not posting will always get the ire of players and attention will eventually be drawn towards them. while active lurkers keep that little flow of posts up basically making sure that people can see there around despite not adding much, makes them harder to detect. often fence sitting, or doing fluff posts.

so yeah.. thats how

[Naomi-Tan]

viewtopic.php?p=8877233#p8877233

Also, to all you fellas who think that Krazy’s Pokémon colorful reads can only come from town.

Check out my Day 1 scum colorful reads list I did in this game, and look at the similarities.

Okay so... Krazy is green I think. I love the discussion between krazy and leaf here and with all the extra effort going over the meta of each player in the read list would of taken I can't find a way that it could be any other way. I guess leaf disagreed but it seemed to come from a town perspective and I like that. It wasn't pushing a lynch or an agenda and seemed to be really looking into things and seemed guine from my perspective.

as for the application of the quoted post. I don't see it. that read list just gives current activity but he read through what must be a good 5 games of mine. thats red hunting no doubt about it in my mind at least.

[Naomi-Tan]

@profil

I don't understand 821 mind explaining whats happening there?

[Naomi-Tan]

824 ah thats what you mean in 821. you can ignore my last post.

[Naomi-Tan]

and.... im caught up again XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

[Naomi-Tan]

More on that is that the claim of hers flies in the face of her disdain for votes that are safe. In the end, with many days left, she retreats can to a safe vote. The hypocrisy is not a good look.

I'm not safe, but I follow where I think the reds are and crimsons post was worthy of moving my vote.

[Naomi-Tan]

More on that is that the claim of hers flies in the face of her disdain for votes that are safe. In the end, with many days left, she retreats can to a safe vote. The hypocrisy is not a good look.

I'm not safe, but I follow where I think the reds are and crimsons post was worthy of moving my vote.

Also, If I was red why would I want to switch off a wagon which is more likely to happen to someone who has no votes rather than maintain pressure.

[Naomi-Tan]

Early bird guess based on wagon composition and early reads,

Assuming 3 scum, it’s Krazy, Sasha, and Light.

This one is much, much more reasonable if you're going to make a scum team with me in it. I don't have a problem with being mislynched tomorrow if there is consensus between both of you that I'm scum, but you have very different scum teams. I think my death will give you all valuable information to work with.

This is scummy. I don’t know what info you would give nor if you’re town should you be wanting your flip for info on Day 2, after there would already be some flips.

You'd rather it come today? It's very hard for anyone to argue that I've done less to contribute to the game than Manatee. It isn't pro town to suicide when there is someone who looks like scum out there.

This seems like putting words into flavours mouth :/

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm flipping green this game. To all who read that exchange, if Crimson flips red, Naomi-Tan is a scum partner. There is no way that someone who is town puts that much effort into misrepresenting another player's ISO when there is plenty of town motivation for drawing activity out of the players who are not contributing to the game at all. I gave you an explicit post with numbers to support the opinion that it's important that we hear from those players before the game ends so that they have a paper trail. You misrepresent a post with labeled numbers on it to try to make your reachy case on me.

If it's 3 v 10, town has some mislynches to give. Not many, but some. I don't think that town would go after Naomi for what she's doing with my ISO without me flipping town first, and I don't read her ISO has being town. What she did says scum to me, but for most players in the game, she has more town cred than I do for some reason.

More on that is that the claim of hers flies in the face of her disdain for votes that are safe. In the end, with many days left, she retreats can to a safe vote. The hypocrisy is not a good look.

Krazy doing their thing

Light’s in the middle of pushing separate people from Krazy whilst still aiding support to the Krazy push yet not directly.

And Sasha’s adding support where needed while not taking the spotlight.

I'm not pushing anyone right now. I would be satisfied with a Manatee vote, but I'm not pushing it right now. We have too many players that are not on record, and I want them to get involved in the game.

Yup not pushing anyone guys. other than all the other posts

[Naomi-Tan]

Manatee is a terrible lynch, and any town on it should see that scum is pushing that through based on crap flawed play reasonings rather than scum reasonings.

However, I think doughboy is town who just doesn’t get it.

personally Im just letting that train sit where it is, I like krazy's meta stuff and am okay on that train in general, but I think its only a matter of time before that befores self evident either by POE, slip or when the lurking is a major issue. there still very slight red-null just cause meta supports a red alignment. but I think lynching them would tell us the least about anyone elses alignment so is likely a poor choice, not that my vote is a good choice for that either.

[Naomi-Tan]

False. The combination of them all is townie.

Agree to disagree

Well, alright. Manatee’s town, though. So you’ll be proven the wrong one eventually.

Or he’s scum and I’ll be proven right. Best case he’s scum. Worst case he’s an acceptable policy lynch.

This is anti-town imo. you should never be okay with lynching a green, even if its there own mess up

[Naomi-Tan]

Also the point you made about coming to the site and not posting is terrible.

I constantly come to the site, look at a game for a second, then not post anything, because I don’t have thoughts or I’m not in a place to have real thoughts, so i don’t post

I have a habbit of refreshing the tab as i go along my top bar checking if any of the webcomics I track have been updated.

[Naomi-Tan]

People make suboptimal decisions sometimes, Flavor Leaf. Yes, he could be town. No, I don't think it's right to assume that a player that actively played in other games on site while avoiding this one can only be town because of his behavior in this thread. He got prodded and couldn't be bothered to post more than a placeholder on the vote he cast. Sure, that could be disinterested town. But on the other hand, it could also be someone who rolled vanilla scum and didn't like what they got. I'm really looking forward to studying this game when it's over to understand where you are coming from. If you are scum and if Krazy is scum, that's a pretty brilliant play you two just pulled. If you are town, and if Krazy is scum, that's an even more impressive play. If you are both town and if Manatee is scum, then I'll be interested to try to follow your logic without any preconceptions.

Right. And I’m not assuming he’s town. I know hems town based on OTHER people’s reactions towards it.

If he was scum, this wouldn’t be an issue like it is right now.

You guys are being extremely one dimensional.

Ehh.. im kinda in the boat that if I was red I'd scapegoat them even if they was red. its so easy to get extra towncred for nothing. its not like they are contributing and helping reds pushes, for red team i'd say there as much dead weight as they are for our team.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay that last post is a little hyperbolic I totally get there not quite as much dead weight for reds. But its still not helping them

[Naomi-Tan]

I hate being the towniest person; it gets me night killed.

I just had a game like this that krazy replaces into where I was going against the grain, and I was correct.

I was killed night 2, Krazy lynched thatperson i was pushing the final day of the game, and I was correct.

i get that. i'm worried about it myself, my scattershot push everything strat tends to get me negative attention on both sides.

[Naomi-Tan]

Imma vig you tonight with this attitude. I like taking out lowhanging fruit.

This was my third different soft claim this day phase.

Scum, i know you’ve been seeing em.

Shoot me. I dare you.

I think know what your doing now

[Naomi-Tan]

I’m the towniest person here.

Right, you’re the village idiot here so it’s like obv town for you. Got it.

Why the insults? Why can’t I just have a different opinion?

Wish people would be civil.

own it dude. hes the 3rd person who has said it in different ways. (as far as I recall im not isoing for it)

[Naomi-Tan]

Flavor Leaf are you scum

I’m the towniest person here.

If i was scum, zero reason to defend Manatee like this if he’s town. Zero reason to defend him this hard if he was a scum buddy.

I’m just correct town.

Here's a great reason to do this as scum and Krazy is town: you get to take out someone who puts a great deal of effort into their cases.

Here's are two reasons to do this as scum and if Krazy is scum with you: you get solid early town cred that isn't hard to keep for the remainder of the game, and you get an easy pocket of a player who is oblivious to the game/an easy mislynch later if people no longer buy that he is town.

Town reason to do this: you think that your read is better than current consensus and are willing to stake your credibility on it.

If you think flavour is doing this for ease then that's laughable in its self.

[Naomi-Tan]

You guys are effectively describing a policy lynch, and acting like that’s not what it is. That is terrible. This is a scum driven wagon, and through that, you can see that Manatee is town.

If I'm not mistaken, you are the only one thinking like this. Is this "white knighting"? I can't feel the same fervor from the other people towards Manatee in you, you're very vocal about not lynching him. I am putting you nearer my second red slot.

eh reconsider. he defended himself with about as much vigor. it appears to be there play-style.

[Naomi-Tan]

Doughboy is relatively new to the site which buys him some time with me in terms of all this policy lynch stuff. (eg me for 2 word posts and now this lurking stuff)

But, that time will run out sooner on the basis he claims to have mafia experience elsewhere (eg aware of negative utility and knowledge of chainsawing is more than youll see in the newbie queue) and should know the ropes at least a bit.

I'm going to click on his ISO and see how much scum hunting is in there, or how much of it is just policy stuff...clicking now...

Here is the progression:

. Every single vote never comes with any sort of analysis as to why that player might be scum. The Saudade stuff is all based on Saudade's hard drive on TW - which isn't alignment indicative albeit i get that it's abrasive

The Krazy vote really irks me, doughboy seems adamant that the hood could have scum in it, but has only played 1 game on this site and claims not to be an alt.

When that doesn't get any traction, he goes back to Saudade, given a read of the ISO, this seems like it could be scum not sure where else to vote when he realises that his Krazy push fell over.

The manatee vote was pretty naked and just seems to be part of getting a lynch through

again, same with TW - but seems to know TW likes to fake claim, despite TW not being in his 1 other game - i get people like to meta dive but this hasn't been mentioned...

Then, post claim, back to manatee- again as per the Saudade 2nd vote - a safe place to lay the vote when you know a claimed PR is a bad place to be.





right

VOTE: doughboy

I like this post.

[Naomi-Tan]

I’m the towniest person here.

Right, you’re the village idiot here so it’s like obv town for you. Got it.

Why the insults? Why can’t I just have a different opinion?

Wish people would be civil.

When you start using logic, then sure. I’m not going to approve of crap logic and a policy lynch. I’m super against that, and think it’s terrible play.

I’m using logic. You are also using logic. We use logic based on our own ideas of how players play and more importantly experience. To insult me by saying I’m an idiot and not using logic is really crossing the line.

First saudade, now you.

Y’all want to bully me? Fine.

mod request replacement

This game isn’t a friendly environment anymore.

P.edit. You’ll have to vote whoever replaces me.

Later guys.

wow this maturity, jeez guess we need yet ANOTHER player.

[Naomi-Tan]

Crimson, Sasha, Frank don’t have too many more posts than Manatee, and it seems like Manatee has a hard time keeping up. I don’t feel they are active lurking at all. Just lurking.

If you are only looking at the number of posts to judge..... I read often and post when i think of something, I won't type for nothing. I don't go for 8 one-liners in 5 minutes...

engage with me, give me a read list so i can pin your alignment down. Also include reasons.

[Naomi-Tan]

Crimson, Sasha, Frank don’t have too many more posts than Manatee, and it seems like Manatee has a hard time keeping up. I don’t feel they are active lurking at all. Just lurking.

If you are only looking at the number of posts to judge..... I read often and post when i think of something, I won't type for nothing. I don't go for 8 one-liners in 5 minutes...

This slot is arguing with me for the sake of arguing.

I’ve been hard defending Manatee, the least active player on this site, so this is pretty obvious scum to me.

why is arguing for the sake of arguing red move?

[Naomi-Tan]

And Krazy’s meta link was poor and ultra prepped up. I’ve already explained that. But I will fight this manatee lynch for the day until deadline if I have to.

Lynch it next Day phase of you still feel that way.

However I’m 90% sure I’m correct on Sasha/Krazy. 100% sure there’s at least one in there.

Sasha is on the first non-newbie game with a pool of experienced players. you need to bare in mind they need a while to reach out level.

[Naomi-Tan]

Our* level

[Naomi-Tan]

rn i think you're town FL but i am watching you so closely because if you dupe me ill be so mad.

Sure, but like, you know me pretty well, I feel. I don’t take pointless risks as scum.

There’s zero reason to defend Manatee this hard if I was scum (guess that could be why I do it, but I digress. That’s doing the most.)

ScumMe defending ScumManatee this way is terrible because it connects us far too much if he ends up getting lynched.

ScumMe defending TownManatee this much is crap as well, because it requires me to FAIL in defending him and get the Manatee flip for the town cred.


Thoughts on Sasha?

I think your ScumMe is objectively incorrect... but it still not optimal as red your right. As much as I hate to admit it my path is the most red on that train. Like being okay with it, but not joining nor defending it. But thats just how I feel about the train so... not much i can do about that, could defend them like you, but just dunno tbh. nothing they done sings town I just wish they'd flail a bit.

[Naomi-Tan]

Thoughts on Sasha?

newbie out of there depths and a little overwhelmed, hoping to encourage them into the open a bit more with a soft touch, unless they feel red.

[Naomi-Tan]

I hope a Boon Babe replaces Doughboy. I could use someone who sees the way i think.

Wait, UCV is in this game. I did get my Boon Babe. Cool.

once there caught up anyway. i think im gonna go hit TW over the head in a bit (metaphorically) as im not satisfied with them now they had a nice window to catch up without having to deal with everyone railing them.

[Naomi-Tan]

You probably can’t even explain why you’re putting me to red for having a different opinion.

Didn't move you to pure red, just a Fos. Why? Because, exactly, you have a different opinion than everyone and that you are very vocal and fervent about it. It makes me look like your with him. Not scummy in itself, more like guilt by association. If the others think Manatee is red, then you might be too from what I am seeing. Not accusing you formally, just seeing you as suspicious.

different doesn't always mean bad, having a view that differs from others shows your thinking about the game normally, it can also mean your defending someone for credit later on (called white knighting or WK for short) sometimes a differing view point leads to wagons like LE and sometimes it leads no where special, like profil. If your lucky you can also strike a TvT up where by the end your certain you was dealing with a green (like I did with flavour, though that wasn't a major diffing as not much had happened)

Sometimes it can also be used as a reaction test, but I'll let someone else explain that.

As for chainsawing, thats a term used when you attack someone who is attacking your partner. by making them look worse you can start a counter trian or just make people doubt the validity of the push. it could also be called trying to discredit i guess.

[Naomi-Tan]

i also just went to check - day talk is on - if i was sashaddin's buddy, i'd be saying stop defending all the scum. It seems so coincidental that you'd expect some mentoring to happen if he was really scum

how did you know this

VOTE: Profil

[Naomi-Tan]

i still think its a good idea to remove that wifom rn to be fair.

i also assume there is a 3rd neighbour

How do you do that without knowing the full neighborhood?

I feel like someone brought up a third Neighbor, or like hinted at it earlier, because I felt like there was a third too.

as far as i seen, no one has claimed as much and both other neighbours are non-reacting to that kinda fish. which suggests to me its a distinct possibility but they don't want to be revealed.

[Naomi-Tan]

@Sashaddin: Do you have any scum reads?

441 and 495 explains where I was up to a few days ago. Now that I'm done trying to figure what's what by myself, I try to understand other people's logic and joined two wagons.
So, in short, I don't have any serious red read. This is not a newbie game anymore.... some of you people are very good.

... you should really try solving yourself still, even if you get confused and take heat for it we may be able to read people who are picking the weakest among us for ML. Also reds are less likely to do the hard work so you look worse by only trying to follow logic without reads, even if its tricky the effort is what counts.

[Naomi-Tan]

What is warlocking

I'm unfamiliar with this term.

[Naomi-Tan]

You guys are effectively describing a policy lynch, and acting like that’s not what it is. That is terrible. This is a scum driven wagon, and through that, you can see that Manatee is town.

and ironically the best policy lynch available is Dough lol

... Originally I was gonna say something about looking for policy lynch's is bad and pressure you for it, but on a second read it looks like you was being fluffy NAI.

[Naomi-Tan]

Im sorry, I simply cant bring myself to play this game properly, I'll be replacing out.

one thing im confident in before I go is tw being town. Gl guys...

This is the biggest load of WIFOM ever if the meta lines up.

[Naomi-Tan]

Mod Notes:

ManateeDude has requested a replacement. Now seeking.

FrankJaeger is V/LA until (expired on 2018-09-13 12:00:00)

Doughboy also requested replacement.

[Naomi-Tan]

You guys are effectively describing a policy lynch, and acting like that’s not what it is. That is terrible. This is a scum driven wagon, and through that, you can see that Manatee is town.

and ironically the best policy lynch available is Dough lol

Dough bad lynch
Frank is miles ahead of him in terms of gucci policy lynch

Speaking of, where the heck is frank? he had some activity at the start but has poofed. gonna have to check his last post.

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't really want to waste todays mislynch on an "afk" slot either so I'm waiting for voyager and so on to speak up

Yeah this is why I didn't jump on the Manatee vote train. I'm leaning towards scum on his slot, but it's important to hear from the slots that disappeared. Thankfully, we have plenty of time left.

your one of the biggest supporters of LaL this game :/

[Naomi-Tan]

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

Sure. Flip me green now.
VOTE: Light Ethos

what do people think of this post. Just curious on getting peoples thoughts if its a more likely red or green move in general.

[Naomi-Tan]

*sighs* I'm pretty frustrated by your play, Naomi.
If you flip green this game, I'll be very upset.

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

Sure. Flip me green now.
VOTE: Light Ethos

Nobody has paid any attention to the possibility that you're red, Naomi, and if you're green, your long-term history of trying to discredit me is not going to help me out later on.

I flip green, all of you go for Naomi-Tan.

You chose a good person to go after, red!Naomi.

It's going to take flipping me green to show town that you're red.

well shoot, I'm sorry I broke you. (not that i'm gonna stop pressuring) If your green it'll come out eventually hang in there. but my next post is gonna push on you probably as I saw you made a post that wasn't dead inside.

[Naomi-Tan]

*sighs* I'm pretty frustrated by your play, Naomi.
If you flip green this game, I'll be very upset.

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

Sure. Flip me green now.
VOTE: Light Ethos

Nobody has paid any attention to the possibility that you're red, Naomi, and if you're green, your long-term history of trying to discredit me is not going to help me out later on.

I flip green, all of you go for Naomi-Tan.

You chose a good person to go after, red!Naomi.

It's going to take flipping me green to show town that you're red.

well shoot, I'm sorry I broke you. (not that i'm gonna stop pressuring) If your green it'll come out eventually hang in there. but my next post is gonna push on you probably as I saw you made a post that wasn't dead inside.

[Naomi-Tan]

She's been tunneling on me all game

actually I didn't really start pressuring until post 44 of my iso 549

[Naomi-Tan]

If I had any reasonable belief that others in the game (who aren't Krazy) found me more credible or equally credible to Naomi-Tan, I would have started a train on her today once the players who have been inactive come out of the woodwork.

... so you willfully ignored something you thought was red to push lurkers? thats.. thats just not productive.

[Naomi-Tan]

And Krazy’s meta link was poor and ultra prepped up. I’ve already explained that. But I will fight this manatee lynch for the day until deadline if I have to.

Lynch it next Day phase of you still feel that way.

However I’m 90% sure I’m correct on Sasha/Krazy. 100% sure there’s at least one in there.

Sasha is on the first non-newbie game with a pool of experienced players. you need to bare in mind they need a while to reach out level.

..... So am I.... That's not an excuse you have extended to me

I didn't know that
but I think your red so just playing rough.

[Naomi-Tan]

Thoughts on Sasha?

newbie out of there depths and a little overwhelmed, hoping to encourage them into the open a bit more with a soft touch, unless they feel red.

This is my first game outside Newbie. What makes me so much more red than Sasha? This looks like red!Naomi and red!Sasha to me.

Sasha is obviously lost. your not.

[Naomi-Tan]

Gonna take a break for a bit here as i been at this way too long. be back later tonight.

[Naomi-Tan]

What day talk? It’s in the rules

UNVOTE:
*puts away fishing rod* yup
VOTE: crimson

Sorry for slightly deceiving wanted to see if anyone reacted to that. it's also why I stopped mid read unlike normal. anyway where was I...

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't really want to waste todays mislynch on an "afk" slot either so I'm waiting for voyager and so on to speak up

Yeah this is why I didn't jump on the Manatee vote train. I'm leaning towards scum on his slot, but it's important to hear from the slots that disappeared. Thankfully, we have plenty of time left.

your one of the biggest supporters of LaL this game :/

What did I lie about? I didn't vote Manatee because I want to hear from the players that haven't been active before Day 1 ends. There is good reason for Manatee to be the Day 1 vote, but ending the Day early doesn't help town.

true.. but i remember a certain 4 player lurker list.

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm not a VT, but my role is only as valuable as the trust I have in the game.

Don’t confirm or deny this

This is more for everyone else

Figured this was a vig claim so was expecting you to scum read TW on the basis that a gun smith is likely here to give scum a chance to catch you as you would be a threat to them

But if you’re not scum reading TWs claim on that basis I guess I’m wrong


Again don’t worry about replying to that - don’t really want to out whatever you are rn

Its not.. sigh missed that post. boy howdy red must love me pressuring all these RC's -_- I'm still responsible for every PR outting this game and that makes me disappointed.

[Naomi-Tan]

She's been tunneling on me all game

actually I didn't really start pressuring until post 44 of my iso 549

I don't count RVS as a real part of the game. You were busy for a few days, said you would look into me at profii's suggestion, looked into me, and haven't seriously looked elsewhere since. (By seriously looked elsewhere, I meant cased anyone else.)

You're trying to set up a mislynch on me later. I'm not having it. I would much rather you be seriously considered in the pool of potential scum sooner rather than later because I don't think anyone else has you there.

your my 3rd push, Leaf and prof (though Prof was more just pressuring to try and get more content) came before yours. If I wasn't looking else where I wouldn't be voting crimson now, or wanting to pressure the worst. Im pushing multiple fronts you know. just yours is the most responsive and will eventually resolve once I am satisfied think carefully about things said ect.

[Naomi-Tan]

If I had any reasonable belief that others in the game (who aren't Krazy) found me more credible or equally credible to Naomi-Tan, I would have started a train on her today once the players who have been inactive come out of the woodwork.

... so you willfully ignored something you thought was red to push lurkers? thats.. thats just not productive.

I certainly have not ignored you in my ISO. The probability that my scum read on you is a correct scum read on Day 1 is lower than the probability that it is correct on Day 2 or Day 3.

I joined saudade's push on the worst because he seemed to only care about his own survival Day 1. I haven't pushed any of the lurkers. Manatee's ISO is absolutely abysmal, but I've argued consistently that this Day should not end without us hearing from the lurkers. Manatee's play lines up with a scum game of his, and his lack of effort does not contribute to town.

So back to the accusation you made: I didn't ignore you, but there were other people who look worse to me than you do. I think it's best to sort out weaker reads when we have more information.

heh, your answering my attacks with nothing but defence. Trying to wait for the lurkers to voice stuff is not effective, question pursue and while doing so poke lurkers, it gives more content forces reads and is more likely to reveal the truth.

[Naomi-Tan]

engage with me, give me a read list so i can pin your alignment down. Also include reasons.

Green: Naomi, for taking leadership and directing since early game. Lots of posts with deep content.
Profii: Felt that even he had a 2-word curse he was trying to help. Haven't lost the feeling since.
Doughboy: I honestly don't remember why. I should cross him off and start fresh with the replacement.

Null: Saudade, because earlier he was opposed to Doughboy whom I thought was green but posted good enough to move him back up.

Red: Manatee, acting weird and quitting is suspicious in itself.
Light Ethos: Because Naomi looked more credible to me and was in opposition with her. He had me confused a bit too.

No idea on the other slots

Right time to rip this post apart

firstly, I wouldn't count me as town leadership. I'm a wild dog biting everything that I can see. I may be happy to explain things Im aware of, but Im still wild. Also my posts are a little fluffy at times, least if my meta is peristing from the last time I played.

On dough boy; do an iso, the slot alignment is the same, consider deeply why you felt that way and get back to me
On Saudade, what posts stood out the most
On LE: No don't take everything I say as right. Im often not right I'm aggressive, step back and consider if Im barking up the wrong tree. what points do you think i have good, what points do they have good that kinda thing.

On Leaf; you gave nothing for leaf, what do you think of there playstyle thus far (mostly looking at going against the crowd and our early engagement.

other questions

What do you think of the worst
what do you think of the push on frank.

[Naomi-Tan]

Why wouldn’t you go back and look for scum clues in Naomi vs FL to help you convince us all you’re right

A couple of things. I'm not pushing Naomi until we get the new players back into the game. It's also very possible that something worse comes out of their analyses of the game than Naomi's attack on me. I fully acknowledge that I could be wrong about my read on her, and it's not worth it to me to push that risk without as much information as possible. She put a lot of effort in her case on me, and it seems like other people agree with her on it. I know she's wrong, but town players make mistakes and try to confirm their biases often. Going back to something that didn't ping me as scummy at the time to try to confirm my current suspicion about her doesn't seem productive.

There are so many players in that have abandoned the game. I don't feel good about pulling the trigger on a suspicion I have when I don't have a record of this many players in the game, at least one of whom is likely scum.

I'm also new, and my opinions aren't likely to be considered. Even if I am right, it will come down to my word against hers. I've given scum motivated reasons why she would do what she's done with my post history, but they were not considered. One way to get town to consider them is just to reveal that I haven't been lying about anything this game by flipping me green. Sure, it gives her what she wants, but if I'm wrong about her, it shows her that she's been tunneling in the wrong place.

No, you push me. hit me, make me sore until Im red raw from fighting back and back off, new players can read back we can ask questions and get thoughts on that, we can study there reactions, holding back only prevents discussion. being "not worth it" to pursue someone is a red thought pattern not a green one. I'm not gonna cry red slip cause your new, but just know that If you had at least 2 more normals experience I would of pounced on that line.

Now stand up and fight me! your line makes me have an idea that you can stop my assault at any time but we're having it out for now.

[Naomi-Tan]

@Golfball, what is the difference for you between not having a read and "null"?

not a lot, given there basically the same thing, personally I think it was to avoid talking about everyone.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: Sashaddin
for that awful awful post that was made just for the sake of posting

that post was at my request. backdown and pressure it.

[Naomi-Tan]

Who self votes and honestly expects it to go as far as a lynch, especially as like 2nd on the wagon or whatever silliness that was

I bet I can self vote and go afk for the rest of the day and not get lynched

most likely.

but the only reasons I know for self vote is red's self hammering to shut down discussion early.

[Naomi-Tan]

If I had any reasonable belief that others in the game (who aren't Krazy) found me more credible or equally credible to Naomi-Tan, I would have started a train on her today once the players who have been inactive come out of the woodwork.

... so you willfully ignored something you thought was red to push lurkers? thats.. thats just not productive.

I certainly have not ignored you in my ISO. The probability that my scum read on you is a correct scum read on Day 1 is lower than the probability that it is correct on Day 2 or Day 3.

I joined saudade's push on the worst because he seemed to only care about his own survival Day 1. I haven't pushed any of the lurkers. Manatee's ISO is absolutely abysmal, but I've argued consistently that this Day should not end without us hearing from the lurkers. Manatee's play lines up with a scum game of his, and his lack of effort does not contribute to town.

So back to the accusation you made: I didn't ignore you, but there were other people who look worse to me than you do. I think it's best to sort out weaker reads when we have more information.

heh, your answering my attacks with nothing but defence. Trying to wait for the lurkers to voice stuff is not effective, question pursue and while doing so poke lurkers, it gives more content forces reads and is more likely to reveal the truth.

I'm answering your attacks because it's important to answer them. Of the players who are active in the game, more of them are on your side of the disagreement between us than not. I've asked plenty of questions in this thread, and they have certainly not all been addressed to those who are not here. Would it have been better to just let your attack slip though and instead dig into others? I don't think it would be, but if others agree with Naomi on that point, let me know and tell me why.

your right, you should answer me, answering isn't the issue, its the lack of pushback. If you think im red then thats great, the more interaction we have the better it'll be in the long hall.

[Naomi-Tan]

okay.. back to not doing mafia, catch ya tomorrow or later tonight if I get sometime. I'm thinking of doing another readlist once I'm finished with LE

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: Sashaddin
for that awful awful post that was made just for the sake of posting

that post was at my request. backdown and pressure it.

that doesn't change anything

changes enough, you accused them of making a post for the sake of it, but I explicitly asked for that post it changes the context of it. the quality left a lot to be desired, but thats why I came back with a follow up. your response "awful post" gives no opening for discussion and just paints them as red with no room for rebuttal or discussion. that's why I informed you that it was at my hand the post existed.

Now, we could have a bash over this, but right now I don't want to get into it yet, so if you could oblige me and pin this down and come back to it after my next read list I'd appreciate it (note that list will be before the D1 flip at the latest but likely sooner)

[Naomi-Tan]

Oops got prodded, gimme a bit to catch up.

Why have you logged on multiple times but not posted?

@Manatee: Why is your vote still on yourself?

VOTE: Light Ethos

You disappeared for several days, were asked a reasonable question about what happened, and instead of answering it, you rush to vote someone without explaining yourself.
Earlier today, you said that you had a hard time sorting out whether I'm mafia or town. Suddenly, you switch to thinking that out of the two of us, Crimson is the one who is town, and I'm the one who is mafia. Reasons??

guessing this is addressing ManateeDude given the context. Which I only have to ask, at what point did ManateeDude suggest that they was deciding between the two of you as red or green. In a binary fashion as presented here. This is a partial missrep obviously as in the post referenced they didn't even mention crimson. But the question on why he switched was perfectly valid and I asked it myself.

You misrepresented my posts on multiple instances in this thread. The above is an example. Here you say that my post is a misrepresentation because I'm saying that Manatee was deciding between me and Crimson to tell who is red and who is green out of the two of us, and it isn't in the post I quoted. Either you didn't read the thread well, or you're trying to smear me to improve your case. You've shown that you're not allergic to reading, so I'm inclined to think that this was intentional, not a mistake. This is the support for my statement in 680:

Okay, so heres a thing. I think Crimson97 and Light Ethos are connected some how.

for 3 main reasons.

Firstly. they never directly interact other than in support of each other
Secondly. there votes / pushes seem coordinated as they happen relatively close to one another.
Thirdly. there post sizes and frequency are similar in the case of they say a little bit rarely to seem productive, but are not big posters (when I said I should look into Light Ethos for example he had 6 posts which lacked content overall)

going through the timeline;

Spoiler:

18 Crimson: votes manatee
20 Crimson: If red this could be a setup for later to be like "yeah im not great at reading him" (of course greens can also do this as it may be true)
23

Light Ethos: While voting profili also puts pressure on Manatee

41

Light Ethos: Mentions crimson but asks no questions or anything (this is the post that Profili called the worst post)

188 Crimson: Confirms Light ethos's theory in a positive manner, but asks no questions
297

Light ethos: Takes an easy stance vs crazy safe vote. also gives reads but doesn't mention Crimson, says that saudade is green

345 & 346* Crimsons first post since Light ethos said Saudade is a green read they also say there a green read (456)
368

Light Ethos: Returns to voting Profili after nothing comes of kraz but keeps the pressure on them a bit always stating they don't see them as green

413

Light ethos: asks a question directly to Crimson. but in the same post also acknowledges someone is actively hunting lurkers so might of been an attempt to generate some activity {could also be a green action}

(Starting to think I was just putting together bits that don't quite fit now.)
418

Light ethos: comes out and defends Crimson

(so maybe there is a connection there and light ethos is just keeping them at arms length.)
451 Crimson97: suggests that frank could be manatee's red buddy. Marks a 'safe' vote by remarking on the word twisting thing.
457

Light ethos: says vote on Profili is "didn't seem to pay much mind to the possibility of Frank being scum"

This looks fabricated, as he didn't even mention frank in his vote post or for another 2 posts after that (or 5 hours later) so that doesn't really match up timeline wise. Vote post is: 368 and the post mentioning frank is 418
504

Light ethos: this is the first time They are in disagreement and its rather recent.

*(wrapping them as its a double post)
these have been clipped down to just the common links and are my interpretations.

I'm gonna vote Light for now. I just find this whole lining up thing weird and kinda sketchy. also dislike 457's timeline and am still struggling to sort most people out.
VOTE: Light ethos

Now this is kind of smart, but one could be green and a red in there could be following around a green for a pocket, specifically I think Light Ethos is more likely to be scum here, even though Crimson was a previous scumread of mine

Welp, I procrastinated enough time to get moving I guess

I see what happened here, I saw you mention the can't decide thing and scrolled back to check the post mantee made; 657 and saw no mention of crimson within it and saw it as a missrep. But i think you was referring to 655 on an iso of the situation.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay, so heres a thing. I think Crimson97 and Light Ethos are connected some how.

for 3 main reasons.

Firstly. they never directly interact other than in support of each other
Secondly. there votes / pushes seem coordinated as they happen relatively close to one another.
Thirdly. there post sizes and frequency are similar in the case of they say a little bit rarely to seem productive, but are not big posters (when I said I should look into Light Ethos for example he had 6 posts which lacked content overall)

going through the timeline;

Spoiler:

18 Crimson: votes manatee
20 Crimson: If red this could be a setup for later to be like "yeah im not great at reading him" (of course greens can also do this as it may be true)
23

Light Ethos: While voting profili also puts pressure on Manatee

41

Light Ethos: Mentions crimson but asks no questions or anything (this is the post that Profili called the worst post)

188 Crimson: Confirms Light ethos's theory in a positive manner, but asks no questions
297

Light ethos: Takes an easy stance vs crazy safe vote. also gives reads but doesn't mention Crimson, says that saudade is green

345 & 346* Crimsons first post since Light ethos said Saudade is a green read they also say there a green read (456)
368

Light Ethos: Returns to voting Profili after nothing comes of kraz but keeps the pressure on them a bit always stating they don't see them as green

413

Light ethos: asks a question directly to Crimson. but in the same post also acknowledges someone is actively hunting lurkers so might of been an attempt to generate some activity {could also be a green action}

(Starting to think I was just putting together bits that don't quite fit now.)
418

Light ethos: comes out and defends Crimson

(so maybe there is a connection there and light ethos is just keeping them at arms length.)
451 Crimson97: suggests that frank could be manatee's red buddy. Marks a 'safe' vote by remarking on the word twisting thing.
457

Light ethos: says vote on Profili is "didn't seem to pay much mind to the possibility of Frank being scum"

This looks fabricated, as he didn't even mention frank in his vote post or for another 2 posts after that (or 5 hours later) so that doesn't really match up timeline wise. Vote post is: 368 and the post mentioning frank is 418
504

Light ethos: this is the first time They are in disagreement and its rather recent.

*(wrapping them as its a double post)
these have been clipped down to just the common links and are my interpretations.

I'm gonna vote Light for now. I just find this whole lining up thing weird and kinda sketchy. also dislike 457's timeline and am still struggling to sort most people out.
VOTE: Light ethos

In what world is this a valid reason to push someone? You go from "here's a thing: I see that there might be a connection between two players, but I acknowledge that it might not be sound" to I'm going to vote this, and it's scum because I don't like the timeline of a post. What? If I'm wrong about your logic, please explain it.

pressure. I had no real leads at the time saw one weird connection and been pushing on it to see what happened. same way I did with leaf.

[Naomi-Tan]

769 Is just ew, given how even me and flavour have came to the conclusion it was TvT (as well as the rest from what I gather) It reads poorly. It feels like he just ignored our posts at that time as the accusations made in 769 look like some pretty major points you'd want to bring up WAY sooner. Seeing a 'contradictory' post in the first 100 posts of the game and entirely ignoring it for over 600 other posts is just...

VOTE: Crimson

There's no way a green member would ignore this.
Also going with my hidden link theory this matches up with it, im pressuring one of them (LE) so yeah..

Yes. The only way a town player would ignore those posts is if they are like the worst and only want to survive their way through Day 1. This is why I wanted to flush Crimson's opinion on it out. How did you come to decide on Crimson as your vote? There are plenty of other players/slots that didn't react to that interaction. Why choose Crimson specifically as your vote? The cynic in me says that you know that Crimson is scum, are choosing him to be your Day 1 vote, and are then going to somehow stick to your reachy claim that he and I are connected. You think I'm scum. Why do you think Crimson is worse than I am?

long in short of it was his speculation that theres red between me and leaf. It was such an obvious TvT thing we had there that either there purposely tossing shade, or just are REALLY bad. like everyone had the same thoughts on that including myself. It took a while for flavour to change his mind but its still a horrific post he made.

[Naomi-Tan]

Creature replaces ManateeDude. Please welcome him!

Oh how unfortunate...

yup. im pretty certain your slot is red thanks to them. unfortunate.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

The self-vote was in response to this. The only way to definitively prove that I'm not in that scum team is by just flipping me as green. I don't want there to be a point later in the game where she acts on the blueprint she set up. This is my first Normal game, so I'm alright with taking an early death to ensure that town doesn't just let red!Naomi get to endgame with town cred for a kill on red!Crimson, shoving me next off of a shoddy link.

Just out of curiosity, how would pushing red!crimson as red!Naomi play into red's wincon if Crimson was getting little to no pressure off anyone but us two and not very high pressure either? wouldn't it be better to let them live on to D2 or D3 and either naturally die or help with Miss lynches?

But addressing the self vote, the idea behind the prove it post is based on a twitter response that jim sterling had to digital homicide.
https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/ ... 8819437568
To which Digital Homicide sued Jim for deformation (along with many other problems they had with jim) in response jim's lawer said prove it, because it was impossible to prove there is enough pop corn on earth.
Basically I thought it was unprovable and am right in the fact that it can't really be proved with words, a self flip was not something I thought anyone would try.

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't really want to waste todays mislynch on an "afk" slot either so I'm waiting for voyager and so on to speak up

Yeah this is why I didn't jump on the Manatee vote train. I'm leaning towards scum on his slot, but it's important to hear from the slots that disappeared. Thankfully, we have plenty of time left.

your one of the biggest supporters of LaL this game :/

What did I lie about? I didn't vote Manatee because I want to hear from the players that haven't been active before Day 1 ends. There is good reason for Manatee to be the Day 1 vote, but ending the Day early doesn't help town.

true.. but i remember a certain 4 player lurker list.

A list which again, you misrepresented. It wasn't a scum list. It was a list of players that weren't contributing to the game. You made it out like that list was a list of players I had down as scum. Do you still stand by your team of Manatee ( now Creature), me, and Crimson?
Why have you so consistently misrepresented my posts, Naomi? This is beyond misunderstanding my posts. It's intentional misrepresentation that is not consistent with a town player. You're experienced enough to do this as town.

What do you think of the worst after his claim, and do you buy the claim? What's your take on profii?

Meaty, I like it. okay so.. the 4 list thing, at the time you had not given a red read list, but you had given me a pool of players to work with. if you wasn't suspicious of them they wouldn't of came up. I skipped over your math sections as IOA is NAI and I wanted to work with it and focusing on that has helped.

As for your questions. I stand by 2 out of 3 of the pool I gave earlier though I'm not specifying which for tactical reasons, yes i know that's not satisfying. As for miss reping. I just post what I read the posts as. The one just tackled was a miscommunication. the read list is your own doing.

well the worst promised me more stuff and didn't deliver so not too happy about that but his claim I dunno how i feel about yet, im gonna let it sit and ignore it mostly for now.

profl? I think there likely a green given that even with there post restriction stuff they was still giving me pause for thought. wish they'd post more but I can talk with my like day long breaks between massive post spamming.

[Naomi-Tan]

Right time to rip this post apart

On Doughboy: 129 through 155 seem green posts to me, he was trying to forward things and kept his cool doing it. From 200 to 225, more green but less cool. From 248, all hell broke loose, I can't get a clue from all this. So nothing specific, but all his early posts make me think he is/was green.

On Saudade:
Green posts: 47, 486
Red: 85-88-93, refusal to explain why but having a harsh language to apply pressure. 232-233 repulsing pressure with language again.
Unsure: 245, 292-496-619-623 telling other people who to vote for. Could go either way for me, maybe an experienced player can get more of that.
His style looks like he likes to tunnel people and attack a lot, 1112-1115 being a good proof. But he looks like green to most other people

On LE: changing my read. Many many posts seems green: 557, 575 in particular to me. I think I was under the impression he was playing a great red game by voting/unvoting often to influence others but I think it can be towny too after all.

On Flavor Leaf: what was 56? Wifom? Style: Skillful deflection of what's coming at him. Play-by-play description of the game with short posts, but very few personal opinions coming from him until recently. (Reddish?) But he says what he means now, and he's posting more. (Greenish?)

On the worst: I know him briefly from another game. His answers don't have much flavor to my eyes, nothing stands out, I can't know exactly his color. I know he's rational and a good player though, his claim might be a bluff.

well enough explained for now.

[Naomi-Tan]

LE what do you make of Flavor Leaf

I think he's town. He's right to say that his defense of Manatee is hard to justify as scum. I gave some possible reasons why he would do it as scum, but I don't think they're high likelihood. I think he has a lot of faith in his reads.

How come your main read on FL is based on his manatee thing when he had a significant interaction with Naomi who you feel rather strongly about

I’d expect you to at least mention that somehow

To be fair, I feel my manatee defense is the strongest reason to town read me. Townie points for LE.

gross rep fishing with fluff post. :/

[Naomi-Tan]

What did you find weird about Manatee? Is it anything other than the self-vote in RVS?
Parrot flaked from the thread too. Why is Parrot not in your list of suspicious players?

The self-vote, I thought he was mirroring me but did not change when I did. Also voting without any clear reason.
I did not take much time thinking about Parrot because he was absent. I'm busy I won't study an empty slot.

had i get it 'parroting'

[Naomi-Tan]

769 Is just ew, given how even me and flavour have came to the conclusion it was TvT (as well as the rest from what I gather) It reads poorly. It feels like he just ignored our posts at that time as the accusations made in 769 look like some pretty major points you'd want to bring up WAY sooner. Seeing a 'contradictory' post in the first 100 posts of the game and entirely ignoring it for over 600 other posts is just...

VOTE: Crimson

There's no way a green member would ignore this.
Also going with my hidden link theory this matches up with it, im pressuring one of them (LE) so yeah..

I'm neither you or Flavour. Am i not allowed to have a different opinion.

Alright, so I just learned that Naomi doesn't know how probability works. Did she really just try to tell me that if there are 3 red players in a game of 13 players, that 30% of the players are red? If you're going to write at me in a condescending tone about something factual, at least be correct. Yikes.

I'm flipping green this game. To all who read that exchange, if Crimson flips red, Naomi-Tan is a scum partner. There is no way that someone who is town puts that much effort into misrepresenting another player's ISO when there is plenty of town motivation for drawing activity out of the players who are not contributing to the game at all. I gave you an explicit post with numbers to support the opinion that it's important that we hear from those players before the game ends so that they have a paper trail. You misrepresent a post with labeled numbers on it to try to make your reachy case on me.

I'll go out and say red!Naomi, and I'm alright with everyone flipping me green first if it's necessary to be sure that I'm not just trying to get an active green killed early.

You're trying to pin me to Manatee and Crimson? Really? That's what you came up with? Not any of the other players' logic that I've been acting on? I was willing to take the brunt of the pressure for the vote on the worst because saudade made that vote and gave a compelling reason as to why others should press him into action. I've liked Doughboy's votes this game and specifically said that Manatee was also a good vote while I had my vote elsewhere. I've been frustrated at all of the inactive players, and that is where the vast majority of my frustration as been placed. My main challenge to you about your insistence that I am scum is that we can't be content to ignore the possibility that at least one of the inactive players is scum, and I have been insistent that we can't ignore all of those players.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

The fact that she inmediately went with a three
people mafia instead of speculating about its size is TMI actually.

Wait... so.. your both implying there is a red between me and Flavor leaf AND saying that its suspicious that in a 13 player game I can assume 9 players Green 3 red? Guys can i get some pressure over this way.

[Naomi-Tan]

Alright, so I just learned that Naomi doesn't know how probability works. Did she really just try to tell me that if there are 3 red players in a game of 13 players, that 30% of the players are red? If you're going to write at me in a condescending tone about something factual, at least be correct. Yikes.

I'm flipping green this game. To all who read that exchange, if Crimson flips red, Naomi-Tan is a scum partner. There is no way that someone who is town puts that much effort into misrepresenting another player's ISO when there is plenty of town motivation for drawing activity out of the players who are not contributing to the game at all. I gave you an explicit post with numbers to support the opinion that it's important that we hear from those players before the game ends so that they have a paper trail. You misrepresent a post with labeled numbers on it to try to make your reachy case on me.

I'll go out and say red!Naomi, and I'm alright with everyone flipping me green first if it's necessary to be sure that I'm not just trying to get an active green killed early.

You're trying to pin me to Manatee and Crimson? Really? That's what you came up with? Not any of the other players' logic that I've been acting on? I was willing to take the brunt of the pressure for the vote on the worst because saudade made that vote and gave a compelling reason as to why others should press him into action. I've liked Doughboy's votes this game and specifically said that Manatee was also a good vote while I had my vote elsewhere. I've been frustrated at all of the inactive players, and that is where the vast majority of my frustration as been placed. My main challenge to you about your insistence that I am scum is that we can't be content to ignore the possibility that at least one of the inactive players is scum, and I have been insistent that we can't ignore all of those players.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

The fact that she inmediately went with a three
people mafia instead of speculating about its size is TMI actually.

I disagree. I think it’s safe to assume 3 Mafia until other stuff in the game comes up that shows otherwise in a 13p game.

Am I omgusing or is that post just not just straight up mudslinging?

[Naomi-Tan]

Flavor and Mana's slot aren't both on a scum team imo. I don't see scum defending an inactive buddy as much as Flavor did. I think that:
A)Both are town
B)Flavor legimiately thinks Mana is town, but Mana is scum.
C)Flavor is scum who was trying to pocket Mana.

Yeah. It can vary, but generally mini’s have 3 scum, bar multiball.

Ok.

who the heck would pocket an inactive like that? I can understand A and B but C? what even is!

[Naomi-Tan]

Can we all townread me because if I was scum you've already lost anyway

no, but maybe later I can find time to. hows tomorrow looking.

[Naomi-Tan]

hilariously, my role is the same role I fakeclaimed in my last scumgame. T_T

Interesting.

I’m probably gonna green ducky then.

Krazy’s still scum. Sasha backed off real fast, so might be green.

Light Ethos is just odd.

How does a previous game affect this one?

what are you even pulling. Saying my role is the same as i fake claimed last game means that they are claiming this game to have a role thats town exclusive and leaf backed off a bit. I don't know the role as I haven't looked. If flavour is backing off from it though it means that reds would likely target them. Also the language of "probably gonna green ducky" means that there not 100% sure, this is a Benefit of the doubt type deal

[Naomi-Tan]

Flavor and Mana's slot aren't both on a scum team imo. I don't see scum defending an inactive buddy as much as Flavor did. I think that:
A)Both are town
B)Flavor legimiately thinks Mana is town, but Mana is scum.
C)Flavor is scum who was trying to pocket Mana.

Yeah. It can vary, but generally mini’s have 3 scum, bar multiball.

Ok.

C is pointless considering the slot was inactive.

Not if you're planning to let him live. Which is very possbiel, i don't see scum targeting Mana if he's town.

Well i guess that can change now that he has replaced out but that hadn't happened at the time.

how does changing out change the alignment of a slot.

[Naomi-Tan]

How does a previous game affect this one?

are you specifically looking for a response from FL because I nearly keyboard warrior'd this post

Why stop yourself.

[Naomi-Tan]

@Crimson:
1. What's your take on the ongoing disagreement between Naomi and me?
2. Do you lean town on Flavor Leaf after his push on Krazy?

@Flavor Leaf: When is that case on Krazy coming?

This is also scummy points for LE.

Looks like he’s trying to change the subject of he game now that there’s pressure on them.

That's unfair to me. I spend a great deal of my posts responding to Naomi's ongoing attack on me. She comes back with a report about it being suspicious that all I'm doing is defending. I continue responding to her, and then I ask questions to other players. You come back and say it's scummy that I asked other players questions.

I hope you're just fucking with me because if you aren't, I don't know what I'm supposed to do here.

eh fair point. You had answered everything you could of upto that point and tossed stuff back at me, It was the right time to look elsewhere.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

Sure. Flip me green now.
VOTE: Light Ethos

Don't self vote. Literally pointless and is scummy af.

Why is it pointless? Why is it scummy?

You supposedly know you're town and shouldn't be wasting time on self voting. Only three times i've seen people self vote is:
-RVS.
-As noob scum to prove that they are not afraid of being lynched.
-As frustrated town. Most of the time this doesn't help and only worsens their image even more.

*sighs* I'm pretty frustrated by your play, Naomi.
If you flip green this game, I'll be very upset.

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

Sure. Flip me green now.
VOTE: Light Ethos

Nobody has paid any attention to the possibility that you're red, Naomi, and if you're green, your long-term history of trying to discredit me is not going to help me out later on.

I flip green, all of you go for Naomi-Tan.

You chose a good person to go after, red!Naomi.

It's going to take flipping me green to show town that you're red.

well shoot, I'm sorry I broke you. (not that i'm gonna stop pressuring) If your green it'll come out eventually hang in there. but my next post is gonna push on you probably as I saw you made a post that wasn't dead inside.

'NO FRUSTRATION HERE GUYS! HES TOTALLY RED, WHAT? THERE'S A WALL OF EVIDENCE RIGHT AFTER THE SELF VOTE AND BEFORE IT THAT SHOWS FRUSTRATION. OH JUST IGNORE THAT, HES TOTALLY NOT FRUSTRATED' - an interpretation of this 3rd point from crimsons perspective as;

Don't self vote. Literally pointless and is scummy af.

meaning he already discounted C or more likely there red, cause how the fuck do you miss that.

[Naomi-Tan]

You probably can’t even explain why you’re putting me to red for having a different opinion.

Didn't move you to pure red, just a Fos. Why? Because, exactly, you have a different opinion than everyone and that you are very vocal and fervent about it. It makes me look like your with him. Not scummy in itself, more like guilt by association. If the others think Manatee is red, then you might be too from what I am seeing. Not accusing you formally, just seeing you as suspicious.

different doesn't always mean bad, having a view that differs from others shows your thinking about the game normally, it can also mean your defending someone for credit later on (called white knighting or WK for short) sometimes a differing view point leads to wagons like LE and sometimes it leads no where special, like profil. If your lucky you can also strike a TvT up where by the end your certain you was dealing with a green (like I did with flavour, though that wasn't a major diffing as not much had happened)

Sometimes it can also be used as a reaction test, but I'll let someone else explain that.

As for chainsawing, thats a term used when you attack someone who is attacking your partner. by making them look worse you can start a counter trian or just make people doubt the validity of the push. it could also be called trying to discredit i guess.

Oh so it's ok for Sasha to have a different opinion but if think Flavor v you is TvS then i'm scum?

YES! it was such an obvious interaction that most people just kept away anyway and let it play out. I worked it out in short order and just bared the heat of Leaf for a while for it.

[Naomi-Tan]

Since this is the first vote on me anyone ever casted, can I have a reason or two so I can try to defend myself? I want to know why you think I'm scum.

they voted for you after your block read list which I slapped them for, but they have a resolve to see this out.

[Naomi-Tan]

You probably can’t even explain why you’re putting me to red for having a different opinion.

Didn't move you to pure red, just a Fos. Why? Because, exactly, you have a different opinion than everyone and that you are very vocal and fervent about it. It makes me look like your with him. Not scummy in itself, more like guilt by association. If the others think Manatee is red, then you might be too from what I am seeing. Not accusing you formally, just seeing you as suspicious.

different doesn't always mean bad, having a view that differs from others shows your thinking about the game normally, it can also mean your defending someone for credit later on (called white knighting or WK for short) sometimes a differing view point leads to wagons like LE and sometimes it leads no where special, like profil. If your lucky you can also strike a TvT up where by the end your certain you was dealing with a green (like I did with flavour, though that wasn't a major diffing as not much had happened)

Sometimes it can also be used as a reaction test, but I'll let someone else explain that.

As for chainsawing, thats a term used when you attack someone who is attacking your partner. by making them look worse you can start a counter trian or just make people doubt the validity of the push. it could also be called trying to discredit i guess.

Oh so it's ok for Sasha to have a different opinion but if think Flavor v you is TvS then i'm scum?

just wanna touch on this a second time. Yeah, I hate this post. it paints that I find anyone starting a stance against the popular flow which is just incorrect. there has been times where I may have questioned peoples views on gray area push back (Flavour on manatee is one of those) but generally speaking I take no issue with going against the mold as it creates discussion. but there has to be some reason to it! finding the early interaction between me and flavour as anything other than TvT is madness IMO.

[Naomi-Tan]

Maybe-not-so-spicy read:

Flavor Leaf is town

Town read me again, I dare you. See what happens.

I town read you, come at me bro.

[Naomi-Tan]

Maybe Saudade for reference too.

Town

good post

NAI / buddying post

[Naomi-Tan]

Maybe Saudade for reference too.

Town

better question. for what reason. you just made an alignment statement and didn't give anything to back it up and I nearly missed it! thanks Saudade! so explain your thoughts here.

[Naomi-Tan]

Flavor Leaf's reads align with mine more or less, with subtle differences.
If I wasn't voting for Sasha right now I'd be voting you Krazy, so his arguments are not stupid at all.

its really strange to me that I read both of you as green but disagree with both trains.

[Naomi-Tan]

Hello, everyone. I am moderately new to Mafia.

VOTE: profii

Town negative utility should claim.

This is probtown

no.

[Naomi-Tan]

Which in my opinion makes your slot likely to flip scum =]

When I flip green the others will probably try to flip you then.

Afraid not, you just lack the TownCred to even be useful for reads on a flip :/ Its not full on warmode like i'm doing.

[Naomi-Tan]

Why? does what I say not make sense to you?

you could of done better than this.

[Naomi-Tan]

I think this is TvT.

[Naomi-Tan]

Literally everything Sasha is saying makes sense coming from a newer player’s first non newbie.

that's not really alignment indicative sorry

yes but we can all see there new. If there Red new, they'll slip at some point D2 or D3, if there Green, we shouldn't be lynching them anyway. Red news are just better left be at the start, its too hard to tell genuine from not.

[Naomi-Tan]

firstly, I wouldn't count me as town leadership. I'm a wild dog biting everything that I can see. I may be happy to explain things Im aware of, but Im still wild. Also my posts are a little fluffy at times, least if my meta is peristing from the last time I played.

I'm not sure what brought this to mind right now, but I do have a question about it when you get the chance, Naomi-Tan.
You've seen a lot of saudade in this thread. Why haven't you taken a bite at him? What initially made you trust him?

I nipped him for his intal vote on sasha but I didn't want to engage you, crimson, and him at once my block posts already take hours without that extra effort, same way as im letting the worst skirt right now. I know that If I stretch myself too thin i will lose steam. also his dough boy interaction is pretty okay. I find that he is also red hunting and questioning stuff. while I disagree with his reads his method is fine. he also handed sasha well enough that it reached my ends on that side.

[Naomi-Tan]

Creature replaces ManateeDude. Please welcome him!

Oh how unfortunate...

yup. im pretty certain your slot is red thanks to them. unfortunate.

Was I the planned mislynch?

Manatee's meta (as far as im aware from krazy) shows him Afking lurking and eventually replacing EVERY red game. It was like a red slip for me from the play style. theres a while to go before im ready to let go of that, additionally some of your posts have come off rather weak.

[Naomi-Tan]

@Naomi, did you know if you highlight a certain phrase then hit "quote" it'll just quote that phrase?

yes i did. use it on occasion. mostly like the context being there for others to read the interactions though.

[Naomi-Tan]

I've stopped reading your posts because quote pyramid spam is blatantly antitown and your responses are becoming boring

like your earlier posting felt reasonable and fairly intuitive but now I'm kinda just wondering why the fuck you're responding to so many things with so little nuance

it's like you're begging to be lynched?

As I just mentioned. I like giving the others the chance to read where im coming from and the things im answering to especially in an iso environment as it allows looking at the entire chain. I do sometimes use post tags instead. Its not anti-town to do that, clarity can not be anti-town by definition. while it does leave some clutter.

I don't feel the need to be nuanced, I just react to anything I feel I want to contribute to. If I selectively ignored stuff then I could miss something that could be vital later down the road. sometimes i ignore certain things to allow myself to fish for people like I did with profil and the day talk as I was hoping to bait people, didn't work as profil instantly corrected it, but it also put a spanner in my plan as I had to afk for a bit right before there post to see if there was any biters. pretty annoying but whatever.

I'm not asking to be lynched we just have different views.

[Naomi-Tan]

ok I'll wait 90 posts full of useless responses to chat with you. no probs. quality spam.

fortunately I can skip my own posts. so once I hit my last post I just zoom the last 50.

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't feel the need to be nuanced, I just react to anything I feel I want to contribute to. If I selectively ignored stuff then I could miss something that could be vital later down the road. sometimes i ignore certain things to allow myself to fish for people like I did with profil and the day talk as I was hoping to bait people, didn't work as profil instantly corrected it, but it also put a spanner in my plan as I had to afk for a bit right before there post to see if there was any biters. pretty annoying but whatever.

I'm not asking to be lynched we just have different views.

ok but your reactions to everything in your last like 30? posts have felt like...... anyone could make them. I'm pretty sure my cat could type out those reactions.

You're not generating interesting content.
You're not showing anyone how you go about solving the game.

You're creating a wall of noise which makes it very difficult to work out what the hell is meaningful. it means you have a huge ISO which floats between being slightly interesting and like endless quote walls, and it means the rest of us have to sift through pages after pages of boring boring content to find anything meaningful.

can you see why your posting is either scum or really bad town? lmfao

I don't feel motivated to answer this byond; both Sau and flavour have more posts than me

[Naomi-Tan]

Hello, everyone. I am moderately new to Mafia.

VOTE: profii

Town negative utility should claim.

This is probtown

no.

Why not?

cause its post 7 in the RVS stage, and is innately NAI. you can't get town reads from there.

[Naomi-Tan]

Literally everything Sasha is saying makes sense coming from a newer player’s first non newbie.

that's not really alignment indicative sorry

yes but we can all see there new. If there Red new, they'll slip at some point D2 or D3, if there Green, we shouldn't be lynching them anyway. Red news are just better left be at the start, its too hard to tell genuine from not.

No I don't agree with that at all, I'm not going to limit my lynch pool.

but you, yourself said you can't tell Newb town from Newb red. Isn't that just the biggest NAI possible and therefore null and shouldn't be your vote?

[Naomi-Tan]

Do you know why am I voting him

as far as I can tell its cause there not putting enough content out and the reads are poorly defined.

[Naomi-Tan]

Not quite, read again.

Hmm... upon review.. I think you may be fishing for Wking and doing it as a reaction thing.

[Naomi-Tan]

Light Ethos. are you doing more replies to me right now? Just want to know.

[Naomi-Tan]

what did I promise that I didn't deliver? sorry, I literally didn't see her say like much about me at all.

Tbf her posts are just wild quote pyramids so..

In 562 I asked you some questions, you answered

@Naomi, those are questions that need Real Effort
I'll probably do it next time I'm in front of a PC, c. 24 hours.

and no there's still some stuff I'm waiting on. believe me when the time comes I'll wordvomit.

which I don't remember being resolved.

[Naomi-Tan]

As for your questions. I stand by 2 out of 3 of the pool I gave earlier though I'm not specifying which for tactical reasons

@Naomi-Tan:

So that means you're confident that the pool of {Light Ethos, Creature, Crimson} has 2 scum players in it, or did I misinterpret that statement?

As confident as I can be at this stage of the game

Follow-up for Naomi-Tan:

If you do believe that there are 2 scum in that pool of 3 players, that requires at least one of Frank and Parrot's slot to be town. How can you be confident of this without hearing much of anything from either of them?

Can't pressure them without them having a some investment. so.. those slots i'm gonna let sit until I got what i can get out of others.

[Naomi-Tan]

Not quite, read again.

did anything come of this?

I'll try to do an updated read list tomorrow if I get the time. if not have a great weekend

[Naomi-Tan]

MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE!

My neighbor has informed me that a certain player named FL caused my slot to rage quit. I am NOT pleased about this, NOT ONE BIT.

To be frank, it wasn't even that big of a deal. He WAY over reacted to people calling him dumb town.

[Naomi-Tan]

Hey NT! This is very interesting. I am on page 50 and I see you must of had quite a large push of LE and apprently FL also has suspected Krazy, SO, let's do this....

(got your tea and crumpets?)

Krazy informed me in the Q/T that LE has a very obvious scum game where he is quite uncomfortable and posts very little but when he plays as town he is much more vocal and appears more comfortbale in his element. Krazy gave me some meta links and I was wondering if based on this new information, you might be willing to reconsider your read on LE and we can work together somewhere else?

PEDIT: Thanks LE!

Maybe later, for now I feel our early thing has a TvT vibe, so I'm gonna let that sit for now.

[Naomi-Tan]

warlocking

what is warlock no one told me last time i asked

[Naomi-Tan]

@all: Is there any way if we leave this slot alive we can positively use his role at all to benefit town?

I believe so, If we do as you say it forces a roleclaim on people with killing roles (vigs) and in the words of the highlander "there can be only one" one green that is. So... If we get a red they can only fakeclaim vig once then anyone else enters a 1v1.

[Naomi-Tan]

Sir, you have been unvoting for a week? Is your game genuine in this thread?

What exactly happend to this thread where so many people are not voting/casing and like coasting?

There is a reason I think there the most likely to be red right now.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: Krazy

Please give a more indepth reason why you voted, it seems from this post you merely voted because someone requested it or at least that's all I can infer from the lack of context.

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi where are you on FL these days?

as of last page, pretty much where I was earlier. I like our interaction early on it felt genuine and that's enough for me for now at least. I know some people have there suspicions but I don't see it yet.

[Naomi-Tan]

@NT: Can you please explain why making pre-flip scum associations is an OK thing to do; I mean there is nothing wrong with it, right?

This feels like a trapped question, But I'm gonna answer it honestly

I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking if X is red then Y is Green/Red. If your wrong about that persons alignment (either by talking it out and feeling there green, or by flip) you can reevaluate and see if Y's actions ared Red on there own or just go in an entirely different direction.

[Naomi-Tan]

You probably can’t even explain why you’re putting me to red for having a different opinion.

Didn't move you to pure red, just a Fos. Why? Because, exactly, you have a different opinion than everyone and that you are very vocal and fervent about it. It makes me look like your with him. Not scummy in itself, more like guilt by association. If the others think Manatee is red, then you might be too from what I am seeing. Not accusing you formally, just seeing you as suspicious.

different doesn't always mean bad, having a view that differs from others shows your thinking about the game normally, it can also mean your defending someone for credit later on (called white knighting or WK for short) sometimes a differing view point leads to wagons like LE and sometimes it leads no where special, like profil. If your lucky you can also strike a TvT up where by the end your certain you was dealing with a green (like I did with flavour, though that wasn't a major diffing as not much had happened)

Sometimes it can also be used as a reaction test, but I'll let someone else explain that.

As for chainsawing, thats a term used when you attack someone who is attacking your partner. by making them look worse you can start a counter trian or just make people doubt the validity of the push. it could also be called trying to discredit i guess.

Oh so it's ok for Sasha to have a different opinion but if think Flavor v you is TvS then i'm scum?

YES! it was such an obvious interaction that most people just kept away anyway and let it play out. I worked it out in short order and just bared the heat of Leaf for a while for it.

It's not really that obvious. Can you point me at an specific post that proves that it was That?

help from the crowd here. how can I prove that posts don't exist with specific posts?

[Naomi-Tan]

Flavor and Mana's slot aren't both on a scum team imo. I don't see scum defending an inactive buddy as much as Flavor did. I think that:
A)Both are town
B)Flavor legimiately thinks Mana is town, but Mana is scum.
C)Flavor is scum who was trying to pocket Mana.

Yeah. It can vary, but generally mini’s have 3 scum, bar multiball.

Ok.

C is pointless considering the slot was inactive.

Not if you're planning to let him live. Which is very possbiel, i don't see scum targeting Mana if he's town.

Well i guess that can change now that he has replaced out but that hadn't happened at the time.

how does changing out change the alignment of a slot.

I meant that if Manatee's replacement is better, he might actually be targeted by mafia.

... No? Player changes are NAI, no matter the skill level of said replacement.