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[VP Baltar]

VOTE: hellbrooks

You beat me last time, so obviously you have evil intentions!

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Icon

NPOM seems like he's pretty inexperienced. No way scum comes out and actually goes SRS MODE in RVS. The real goof here is Icon trying to make that seem scummy.

(In fact, NPOM was a pretty easy misyeet D1 in a recent game I played. He was similarly overeager to scum hunt, and the scum team just sat back and let that be a fail. Only took slight prodding to make it an all town wagon. NPOM was town vig that game.)

[VP Baltar]

Am I missing something here, or does that not make much sense? Why do you think Iconeum's scumread on NPOM is scum-motivated?

The point is NPOM is an easy target for a misyeet. In the game I referenced, my scum team was more careful and let the NPOM misyeet happen without having to participate much (iirc, one scum member quick hammered). The particulars from any game to game are going to differ. How is that confusing for you?

I think it's scum motivated because it's unlikely scum is going to come out both barrels in RVS the way NPOM did. Scum are timid little babies, afraid to attract attention to themselves early on in the game. I'm saying Icon goofed by thinking "oh, here is an easy push I can hop on to look like I'm scumhunting."

[VP Baltar]

Like I get your thought process here in addition with your second post. But if NPOM is pretty inexperienced and an easy miselim for scum, what stops him from playing haphazardly as scum too? Scum that are going try-hard and struggling with it on page one is not necessarily something rare imo. Why do you think he is town here? Or is it rather just a consequence of you scumreading Icon?

Nothing stops him from being haphazard as scum. I'm just saying, generally speaking, scum are a cautious breed, especially early in the game.

I don't know what his scum meta is. But based on my experience with him when he was town, this would fit with his play.

Curious why you find it convincingly scummy, though willing to give you time to scan some NPOM games and come to your own conclusion on his play as town.

[VP Baltar]

baltar, could you elaborate on why you find nopoweroverme's early game as too bold to be from scum, while not icon's? i wouldn't classify icon's play so far as cautious/timid, you would?

Because NPOM was attacking GB for an obvious RVS vote. If you're scum, that's pretty clearly not going to do anything but bring you trouble. Whereas I could totally see an overeager town newbie (NPOM has only been on the site for a couple months) doing that because they aren't worrying at all about trouble, just earnestly trying to find scum.

The above feels super obvious to me, so Icon going after that would fit as scum. I'd expect a scum might push on it because it is easy to portray a terrible point from NPOM as "scummy". Contrary to what you're saying, it does feel like a timid play to me given NPOM seems like an easy target.

[VP Baltar]

There are interesting differences, but for so early I don't see any useful pro/contra arguments per meta tbh so I would rather roll with seeing more from him here.

I agree with this. I could easily be wrong too. This is quickly starting to feel like we are making overly strong points based on minorly different reads of a short exchange. We need more people posting and getting the game juices going

[VP Baltar]

A) i don't think inoc is scum. She's just trying to read me.

B) I'm not inexperienced. I have played as another alt.

C) my playstyle tends to attract attention. I try to use that to my teams advantage on both sides, but me being mislynched as town is not uncommon.

D) I'm considering switching my vote from GB but he's not making it easy by not posting.

[VP Baltar]

Whoops phone goof.

NPOM, you mind sharing your alt?

Why do you think you're misyeeted as town so much? Why are you trying to telegraph a vote?

[VP Baltar]

On another note, what is your first impression of Billy?

Seems a bit weird he went from possibly asking serious questions ("why are you lying daitsi?) to what looks like an RVS vote.

[VP Baltar]

daitsi

who?

anyway, does knowing npom is an experienced player change your read there?

also i wanted to wait and see if npom was gonna correct baltar about being (in)experienced, but then testarossa brought up the alt, big sad.

Sorry! I was lazy.

Have you played with NPOM's alt before? Maybe I'm just making bad assumptions about experience here. That would definitely change my read of that situation.

[VP Baltar]

Vp is Billy scummy.

Shrug. I don't have strong feelings either way yet.

[VP Baltar]

Rereading everything so far now that I'm not on my phone.

Misses the townslip from GB,

How is this alignment indicative for NPOM or anyone?

Sorry, but I don't believe in RVS. At least as much as I can try to avoid it.

Why?

D) I'm considering switching my vote from GB but he's not making it easy by not posting.

I am leaning towards voting Inoc.

This actually does bug me. Like why are you saying "look out guys, might switch my vote here!"

Why not just vote?

Explain the wind up to me.

re: baltar, i have not played with his alt, i just remembered seeing him say somewhere he's got that account, and the join date being a few years back. i don't actually know anything about his play, i just assumed earlier join date = more experience.

I looked it up (admittedly quickly because I only have so much time today). I'm going to say, it's safe to think NPOM's posting style doesn't feel strongly indicative of alignment. He definitely seems like he puts off weird vibes as either alignment and could be an easy yeet D1. I still stand by my read that scum!Icon could see that as an easy target, but that read feels softer now. (Also, see above weird vote telegraphing from NPOM.)

Honestly the dude seemed testy, which could be scum or could be a way town reacts to jokey rvs. The fact that he doubled down on it almost feels too scummy to be scum. But i thought that overt hostility was too scummy to be scum before and that player ended up being scum. So this is something that im going to treat as a play style thing that may be less so later.

*farting noises*




Alduskkel -- if we were going to do some dualing wagon action, who would you want run up with NPOM?

[VP Baltar]

1) I'm assuming he's guessing that you are smart enough to sense mislynch bait and you think I am it, and that eliminating me would lead to a similar result as the last time I was day 1 eliminated for little or no reason. He's not wrong, as you are holding on to your assumptions way to strenuously.

Look at this from HIS pov. He literally said that in that particular game, you got mislynched easily. And that scum had to do nothing for it. Everyone pushing you in that game was TOWN.
How does that make him scumread me for doing that, in this game? Where is the logic from his pov?

I actually explained this already. I think it was snowblaze who asked me?

I was actually thinking I might have been wrong in my initial scum read of you, but your completely over the top reaction and OMGUS to a single vote is very interesting.

Let's get some more votes on Icon pls. Hellbrooks, testarossa, we got a live one over here.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim

Not really away from NPOM, but I feel it's locking too much into NPOM/Icon and I don't really like Billy's posts or what he isn't doing atm.

Tell me more. I'm also interested in this.

[VP Baltar]

scum vibes from testarossa too. no i will not be explaining at this time

Oh wow, this is a completely different wave length from me. Interesting, interesting.

[VP Baltar]

Ok now im interested, you admit that you may have been wrong in your initial scumread. Icon points that out says your bad logic (which you've already admitted) makes you scummy and now you characterize his reaction to a bad push as "completely over the top" and "OMGUS." Please explain this logic.

Are you actually reading the game?

I did not admit to anything regarding Icon's "bad logic" argument because it is flat wrong. Icon failed to read properly and the OMGUSed me is what took place.

I said I could be reading the situation wrong because after I did some more meta review of NPOM, this is just kind of how he plays. It certainly doesn't detract from my point that he is an easy scum target if he is town. But I was willing to say he does attract attention because of the way he posts, which would weaken -- though not entirely negate -- my initial read of Icon.

However, Icon then following up on me saying that by completely losing it for two pages that anyone would question their motives for voting NPOM and then pretending like attacking NPOM is some bold and risky stance is quite rich.

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, can you explain the Andres case to me in a bullet point or two?

Thoughts on Billy?

[VP Baltar]

Making bad points to justify a vote doesn't make it less OMGUS.

[VP Baltar]

Agree, that's why I'm not point by pointing this Icon exchange. If Icon is town, this could end up being a huge distraction. Perhaps people who have played with Icon before can weigh in and say if this is typical behavior.

[VP Baltar]

Perhaps people who have played with Icon before can weigh in and say if this is typical behavior.

*waves*

ico can get very annoyed at scumreads he considers unfair, it's not scum!indicative

your thoughts on andres?

The pocketing of me feels a bit hard, so I have a natural skepticism of that. I would agree with you that some of his posts feel a bit like busy work, though I did find myself nodding along at a couple points. I could probably make a stronger argument that Billy and snowblaze are busy bodies with little substance.

Overall, still have a null on Andres. Would rather we ran up ico or Billy.

[VP Baltar]

Also, hi Umlaut!

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Billy pilgrim

This game needs a change of pace and an actual wagon.

GB, thoughts on Billy? Why are you not on this wagon, bb?

[VP Baltar]

hi VOTE: ico am busy but when i was reading game b4 replacing in this slot pinged me v hard notably between pages 6-10

Tell me more Tell me more

[VP Baltar]

Ico, let's put our differences aside. Get on this Billy wagon?

[VP Baltar]

Ico, let's put our differences aside. Get on this Billy wagon?

I don't really feel a scum!Billy actually.

What has billy done that's town?

[VP Baltar]

Damn, you all were super busy. I'm going to try to limit this to only the most pertinent things to avoid a giant catch up wall.

For information purposes, NPOW would actually be a great lynch.

Curious what information you think we'd most glean from that? I'm not opposed to information yeets D1.

Anyway, yeah, I haven’t stated any reads, but that’s more just me being my usual non-commital and cautious early game self than anything suspicious. I guess I can probably produce some now if I must.

Townleans: Testarossa, Datisi, Iconeum, Billy Pilgrim

Why is Billy town? I literally can't remember a single thing he's done. He's like the dictionary definition of IIOA and softball questions that go nowhere.

I see some are scumreading baltar and i can see where they are coming from.

lol wut

Who you agreeing with? Billy, who was sheeping Ico, who was not (in my opinion) making a good point on their own defense?

did you happen to read the post i made where it shows the faulty logic used by VP in his push on me?

VP used meta from a game where NPOW was mislynched by town, and scum just sat by. Then VP applied it to this game where NPOW is once again being pushed, so his logical conclusion should be that it's probably town again but instead ends up scumreading me.

I got the impression that in VP's game scum chose to leave them alone and eventually NPOM attracted enough attention to fuel an all town wagon on them. Whereas in this game scum (you) have chosen to jump on them early and use the concept that NPOM is safely pushable to attract neutral/positive attention

early in the game

. Pretty sure thats what vp's point was? Anyway my read on you extends past that concept and includes your progression from the early push even though it does circle back and tie in vp's initial argument.

This guy gets it. Hope we can stop harping on this point eventually since it's been explained like 50 times, regardless of Ico & snowblaze's insistence that it does not work logically.

Speaking of snowblaze, they're another person I'd put in the "to yeet" pile with Billy Pilgrim for literally doing nothing so far to push the game forward. Particularly don't care for snowblaze's reaction to getting a few minor votes. Seemed quite exasperated to some mild pressure.

koba, here's the thing. ico is town. without me, you're not getting him through. either start convincing me why ico's scum, or it's not happening.

lol, excuse me, what? You the decider on what town does with Ico?


Also, hi DkKoba. Appreciate the zero fucks given.

Anyhow, right now we should yeet Billy or Snowblaze. Both are useless and high likelihood to be the scum who juuuuuust doesn't quite get the game state. They're both out of sync and trying to fit in like the 40 year old in a too-tight T-shirt at a singles mixer.

[VP Baltar]

Scum, you should get on this bus of your buddy Billy early, too. It's not going to play well for you later if you're in that late wagon slot. I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU HERE.

[VP Baltar]

eugh feel like i consumed too much in one go and im still stuck on digesting... cant really 'get' the game state

It's ok, I got you. Vote Billy or snowblaze

[VP Baltar]

is it weird that im more paranoid of ppl who are able to vocalize their reads better and townread ppl who have confident reads but cannot explain them as succinctly?? i feel like weird brain rn

Who are said ppl?

Vote Billy or snowblaze pls

[VP Baltar]

Speaking of snowblaze, they're another person I'd put in the "to yeet" pile with Billy Pilgrim for literally doing nothing so far to push the game forward. Particularly don't care for snowblaze's reaction to getting a few minor votes. Seemed quite exasperated to some mild pressure.

(snip)

Anyhow, right now we should yeet Billy or Snowblaze. Both are useless and high likelihood to be the scum who juuuuuust doesn't quite get the game state. They're both out of sync and trying to fit in like the 40 year old in a too-tight T-shirt at a singles mixer.

I don’t like this post, but I don’t even know if it’s AI at all. I just completely disagree on principle. (May or may not be because it’s me you’re talking about.)

The exasperation is because, as I mentioned earlier, I’ve been wagoned day one as town quite a bit recently and I don’t want it to happen again.

“doing nothing to push the game forward” - that’s kind of hard to do without scumreads a lot stronger than day-one-me ever gets unless I’m confbiasing.

“Useless”... no. Just no. That’s... really not true. I’m just approaching the game in a different way.

And even if I was “useless”, I don’t even see how that makes me scum as opposed to useless town.

How is anyone seeing this as town?

1) complains about getting wagoned when never facing any actual pressure
2) says she can't scumhunt rn because it's D1
3) THEN says she's definitely not being useless, despite just saying she's not pushing the game forward.
4) then says "jk if I am useless, it's not AI"

UNVOTE:
VOTE: snowblaze

Yeet this. Snowblaze is scum that doesn't know what to do because there is an active group that seems pretty town. I get it! That's a hard spot to be in when you're scum. Tough roll. GG.

In other news:

The Ico/Andres back and forth is hurting my head a little. I feel like all these Ico interactions end up being pages of "NO YOU'RE WRONG" arguments about tiny tiny points that aren't that illuminating. We need to be looking at broader issues at this point. Snowblaze and Billy are the coasting scum here.

[VP Baltar]

Oh also, Koba's pronoun is they.

I'm sure they get misgendered plenty on this site (who doesn't), but friendly reminder.

[VP Baltar]

baltar, do you think i should be townreading you by now? or like, do you think you've done things worthy of a townread?

My general experience is most people stay suspicious of me (or at least skeptical) until deep in the game, regardless of alignment.

It's a mixed bag. On the plus side, scum tend not to NK me early because suspicion is always kind of on a simmer. Downside is when I'm town I have a harder time getting people on my side when I'm making very sound points because they are suspicious of me for

~reasons~

(often that they can't explain).

I think it's bc I have a Hunter Thompson avatar instead of a cute cartoon character, but I'll never change.

[VP Baltar]

Wow cool. A different person in a different game did a different thing.

Anyone making a point that "one time I saw a person do this thing as the other alignment, and therefore that thing is never AI" is incorrect. You can make that argument about literally any point probably. You need to look at probability. Scum are less likely to be able to genuinely scumhunt D1 because there isn't much material to work with and they are trying to fake something out of nothing. Town's advantage D1 is they are genuinely trying to find scum and don't have to fake anything.

[VP Baltar]

No D1 scum read is going to be perfect, but Billy and snowblaze fit the coasting scum MO pretty well. I'm quite confident one of them is scum.

[VP Baltar]

I think you are overgeneralizing. Players that are good at playing scum should be good at appearing to scumhunt. It just depends on your skill level. My point is that you can't say player X is definately scum because they said "D1 scumhunting is hard."

I think you're overgeneralizing what I said about snowblaze.

Also: odds are, not every player who drew a scum PM is good at being scum.

[VP Baltar]

I don't think scum are going to have any problem with my being wagoned, but fair enough, I suppose.

Lol what

[VP Baltar]

I'm townreading you less now due to your willingness to wagon your townreads. I'm not instantly defending it. I've actually interacted with snow. This reminds me of a previous game where town ganged up on a easy mislynch and they ended up being town. D1 lynches are more often town than scum and this just looks like town to me.

If blaze flips scum, here is her buddy. Mark your cards now bingo players!

[VP Baltar]

I don't think scum are going to have any problem with my being wagoned, but fair enough, I suppose.

Lol what

...because I’m town?

My point is this is some garbage LAMIST posting.

Yeet
Yeet
Yeet

[VP Baltar]

Wow, talk about OMGUSing. Blaze is pretty far from being lynched. Why aren't you concerned about Ico's willingness to join a wagon on her townread?

It's the right wagon to join.

I'll advise you, the late bus position is going to look bad for you later. Buy that snowblaze stock now while it is hot!

[VP Baltar]

This seems more like a personality contest than an actual determination of guilt.

Says the guy losing the contest!

[VP Baltar]

Glad to hear. Want to wagon him?

Have you ever even answered me or others who asked you why I'm suddenly scummy?

Working that overtime to distract from snowblaze. I make no apologies when you are the next yeet upon scum flip. I have tried to advise you on good scum play because this town is already forming an impenetrable phalanx, and yet you refuse me!

It's sad, but a defeat of your own making.

P-edit:

I'm appealing to emotion? Scummy play in general? Alright.

[VP Baltar]

The poor logic is that snow not hunting and being useless = scum.

And also that I’m not hunting and being useless because I don’t have strong scumreads on day one.

So what is the argument to not yeet you? We should trust you're going to do stuff later?

You keep saying you don't have strong scum reads...well who the hell does D1? You have to take some level of gamble. You're trying to hide behind the lack of info D1 to not actually do anything. That's excuse making and is scummy.

Now is your chance to give some thoughts. If not, then you need to go.

[VP Baltar]

Pagetop.

Definitely useful

[VP Baltar]

mind telling me who you're finding to be the town bloccing here?

I think there is a semi-loose group right now of you, me, Ico, GB, hellbrooks with some side folks from Andres, Tess and NPOM.

I don't think everyone in that group is necessarily town, nor do I think everyone in that group finds each other fully town. But I do think people in that group have enough town reads on them variously from people in that group that yeeting them today is a dwindling possibility.

That puts scum in a tricky spot, particularly if their members are concentrated outside that group.

[VP Baltar]

i use maf silver on my main and that mod color is like hilariously unreadable

Omg, same. I almost said something earlier, but didn't want to be rude to the mod

[VP Baltar]

i use maf silver on my main and that mod color is like hilariously unreadable

i use maf silver on my main and that mod color is like hilariously unreadable

Omg, same. I almost said something earlier, but didn't want to be rude to the mod

That is readable to me!

Would blue be easier for you to read?

[VP Baltar]

VP and Hell are definately scummy. DKK is not looking good but could be bad town.

Drop the hammer and prove it!

[VP Baltar]

also did snow claim with intent on them

Nope. Just at the first sign of E-1.

[VP Baltar]

Fwiw, I think everyone should weigh in on snowblaze before we nuke her

[VP Baltar]

Literally everyone still on the snowblaze wagon is pretty solid town reads from most people in the game. A magical testarossa counter wagon emerges from nowhere to stop this elim?

Naw, dawg.

I need to spend some time today to closely dissect what happened, but now I'm more confident in testarossa town. Snowblaze is scum.

[VP Baltar]

@baltar, i know you think snowblaze is scum and all that, but can i like, get your opinion on janko

I'll address this first since it's gonna be a hot second today (or possibly tomorrow) before I can do a detailed reread of the past 10 pages or so.

Felt a bit mixed on jank's initial reads of the game since I didn't get snowblaze townread or ico hard scum read at that point. I don't know if he ever actually explained his snow townread.

I agree with you that it's weird to just not comment at all on the snow wagon while saying you're caught up. At the very least, my push there gave us material to look into. I could see jankofan as a snow scumbuddy who was eager to move past that wagon.

Would be interested in a jank explanation of the snow townread now.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: dkkoba
Serious offer btw. Im that confident in my read

Really, self-vote already? How many games have you played on here?

I feel like around 20-21-22 some of this game turned into a meta conversation about how to play. I wanted to make a note of it, but I'm not sure what it means.

AM I A CRAZY PERSON WHO SEES

DEAD PEOPLE

THIS IIOA????

Snow, Billy, {NPOM, JANK or someone else who is tricksy scum}

[VP Baltar]

Is NPOM still your top scumread, Billy?

[VP Baltar]

u know its be funny for snow to flip scum bc it implies their paetners just straight abandoned them bc i seriously see them acting independently and thats why i tr them

This strikes me as weird. What do you mean their partners abandoned them? What actions would you be expecting?

[VP Baltar]

I lied. I'm just going to skip breakfast and do this catch up now.

but after the wagon I am not so sure what to think of it. It kind of happened a bit too fast for my liking. But I am a bit at a loss because I am town or null on all on the wagon.

This is my point. The speed of the wagon doesn't matter if literally everyone on it is town. We shouldn't be afraid to be right. Speed wagons that form on scum are actually super powerful because they put the scum in a bad position without a calculated response. I completely think snow is the right play and the counter wagon on testarossa is going to yield a ton of information upon flip.

also if u think in a game with 3 scum with so many v high energy players that at the very least snow!scum wouldnt be at the very least be coached in scum chat rn, then thats absurd.

Ah, this explains what you said above perhaps. Maybe I'm out of practice here. Is scum day chat a pretty standard function? I did have it in my last couple scum games, but there seemed to be theme/setup reasons in those games for that to exist. I wouldn't have assumed all normal games have scum day chat. What's site meta currently?



Koba and Aldsukkel are probably the worst of the testarossa votes, imo.

I actually lied, Janks vote is bad too.

There's almost no explanation of this wagon other than "tess uses a lot of words' and "I don't like snow wagon"

Gosh, I can't wait for Billy to weigh in on all this. On D2.

lol'd

Let's counterwagon.

VOTE: Andresvmb.

Translation: "I know tess will flip town, so I'm going to find a spot to park my vote that won't draw suspicion D2"

[VP Baltar]

how abt u stop side shading me and say it to my face.

What are you on about? Asked a legit question.

Why did you assume scum have daytalk?

[VP Baltar]

how abt u stop side shading me and say it to my face.

What are you on about? Asked a legit question.

Why did you assume scum have daytalk?

bc literally every other game on this site has daytalk

That's the question I asked.

Is this you playing 3D chess bc lol

[VP Baltar]

actually VP- why the push on me and Blaze as opposed to Alduskkel? I legit forgot they were in this game.

He hasn't posted as much, so it is harder to read motivation. He's definitely wallpaper though.

[VP Baltar]

are you going to respond with something of value or?

No clue what you want me to say. This is my third get back here after being gone for 7 years. Didn't know if day chat was site meta now since it wasn't in the old days.

[VP Baltar]

I don't like that VP just gave up on the snow wagon, and janko is town reading him for it.

I gave up on the snow wagon?

[VP Baltar]

Literally everyone still on the snowblaze wagon is pretty solid town reads from most people in the game. A magical testarossa counter wagon emerges from nowhere to stop this elim?

Naw, dawg.

I need to spend some time today to closely dissect what happened, but now I'm more confident in testarossa town. Snowblaze is scum.

You think the scum play when you're being wagoned is to townread your counterwagon then try and start a counter-counterwagon on someone that left you for your counterwagon? I mean I'm missing the scum motivation in that play specifically.

If her scum buddies are on the counter wagon, she may not want to congeal any more there. It was already up to E-1, scum!snow may not have felt the need to add to that wagon.

[VP Baltar]

Can someone who is not Koba tell me if scum always have day chat? The fact that it needs to be in the rules makes me think not...

Another way to put it, has anyone played a recent game that didn't have scum day chat?

[VP Baltar]

Can someone who is not Koba tell me if scum always have day chat? The fact that it needs to be in the rules makes me think not...

Another way to put it, has anyone played a recent game that didn't have scum day chat?

vast majority of games in this meta have scum daychat. while it generally still has to be outlined in the rules, odds are the game has daychat.

Thanks

[VP Baltar]

i realized what's bugging me about andres, he has a kinda weirdly similar posting talking style to one player i played with a few months ago that was scum... or like really really reminds me of him. this itself is not scum-indicative however. but it's making me uneasy. i will have to reread his iso soon...

This seems completely NAI, regardless. ISOing him seems fine, but being suspicious based on someone else talking similar...

...someone is coocoo for Coco puffs today

[VP Baltar]

baltar is what npom doing towny or scummy to you

Scummy for sure. I'm not certain on his slot given he just says stupid shit and looks scummy all the time?

That's why I think flipping snow red would be super informative about his slot given his play.

[VP Baltar]

What is stupid specifically.

That you say testarossa is scum and you won't yeet her.

[VP Baltar]

Koba, are NPOM and Tess independently scummy?

[VP Baltar]

I think the reason I'm tring snow is that she seems like she'a actually introspecting and also that she seems focused on things that people who are solving tend to be focused on

I need more specifics on "things". What things?

[VP Baltar]

Koba, are NPOM and Tess independently scummy?

No i am seeing associatives wrt npom pretending to push on testa and now backpedaling

So wouldn't flipping Tess make sense first? Trying to sort how much of this is you 1v1ing

[VP Baltar]

I'm open to being persuaded. I haven't seen a clear case on Tess, so lay it on me.

I'm much less confident on Billy since his catch up. Snow is still the coasting scum, and I don't have a strong third. Hit me with that sizzle reel.

[VP Baltar]

I dont think ur suggestion of snow/billy scum makes sense ever with testa which is why u may be disagreeing with me here.

I don't see snow and Tess as being exclusive.

[VP Baltar]

What is testa at?

[VP Baltar]

Snowblaze has requested replacement. Currently searching.

Failing scum runs away because she's failing her team. Let's just yeet this and end the day.

[VP Baltar]

Koba, vote snow so we can end this torture and start sorting these scum

[VP Baltar]

Baltar, why don't you vote test?

No one has made a case. Plus I thought if I vote someone, you're legally obligated to not be on that wagon because I'm so scummy. Lot of stuff for you to keep straight

[VP Baltar]

Using the word "but".

Got it.

Vote snow 2020

[VP Baltar]

Are you going to read the game?

[VP Baltar]

Are you going to read the game?

what do you think im doing

Trying to do VC analysis with zero flips and the assumption you're town...which isn't actually helpful at all, imo.

I'm asking if you are reading the game or just going to keep posting votecounts. You do you. Just want to know what to expect.

[VP Baltar]

Are you not analysising the vote counts with the assumption that your town?

I don't try to do VC analysis much until I actually have information to work off. I would of course look at any wagon on me and see who is on it.

The fact you are making all kinds of inferences on OTHER wagons not involving your slot is beyond silly when you don't know the alignment of anyone on them.

Plus you asking questions like "datisi what do you think of Ico" seems like a giant waste when you could easily glean that info from reading the game.

[VP Baltar]

An vp seems to realy not like that im reading the two leading wagons as each having one scum

Yes, that is definitely the conclusion to come to.

[VP Baltar]

which implies that snows partners actually did abandon them which is hilarious

NPOM is a likely snow partner. We good

[VP Baltar]

Okay, so why is test better than bob?

Of test and Bob, who do you prefer eliminating?

[VP Baltar]

ppl obsessed with "logic" flip scum 4/5 times

TRUTHHHHH

[VP Baltar]

Okay, so why is test better than bob?

Of test and Bob, who do you prefer eliminating?

See these are comments that scum make. Scum when they have two town wagosn always talk about this one or that one.

Hey everyone, guess who I'm impersonating:

"Both the leading wagons are town. But scum won't join them to push them over the edge for like 20 pages now.

LOGICCCCCCC IS KINNNNNNGGGGGG"

[VP Baltar]

If i survive to d2 ill go for vp's head if u flip town bob and thats on period T

Totally down for this. I'm very confident at this point Bob is flipping red.

Scum NPOM is coming for me tonight. Calling it now.

[VP Baltar]

if everyone wasn't on V/LA pretending they don't have crippling internet additions, we'd already be in twilight. Sad.

Bob, you should give your opinions on your PoE pool so we can make associations after you're gone.

[VP Baltar]

If test was scum. Would all 4 of them really have joined. More likely you would have had those that are scum joining my wagon at that point

Good argument for Bob scum here.

[VP Baltar]

So we wait for Datisi to get off V/La and hammer

[VP Baltar]

Tess, vote Bob. It is good and right.

Maybe King George will grace us with his presence too

[VP Baltar]

give me someone to interact with plsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss drunk!koba can sort slots easy

Hi, whatcha drinking? I've had three beers and waiting for dinner to finish baking.

[VP Baltar]

bob/snow has been so obvious it hurts.

Been saying it for pages, but I forgive you

[VP Baltar]

give me someone to interact with plsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss drunk!koba can sort slots easy

Hi, whatcha drinking? I've had three beers and waiting for dinner to finish baking.

cider but also i wanna note taht sober me thinks that u are p blatant scum too lol

C'est la vie

[VP Baltar]

Dinner is ready. Was hoping for better.

Minus points for drunk Koba

[VP Baltar]

Is that what Dk stands for though?

Don't mind me, just solving mysteries and catching scum over here.

[VP Baltar]

Snowblaze has requested replacement. Currently searching.

Failing scum runs away because she's failing her team. Let's just yeet this and end the day.

yo VP, how can it also not be equally failing town running away because she feels she's failing her team?

Could be. That's not how I'm seeing it though. Town is less likely to replace out for the failing the team reason because they don't have anyone they are directly accountable to. Scum however have partners they have been talking to and don't want to let down.

Replacing out as scum is like a sure fire way to defuse your wagon because everyone wants to give the replacement a chance and reassess that slot.

[VP Baltar]

@Alduskkel, vote Bob so that we get this one through. I can’t say I care about this Janko push and I really can’t figure out this game without seeing a flip at this point. And I don’t know why wherever Ico runs to, Datisi follows.

This basically. Can't believe I read 4 pages of the same point being repeated again and again

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, do you know snow IRL?

[VP Baltar]

Ico & Datisi - do you town read the Bob slot or you just think janko is scum for changing reads on it?

[VP Baltar]

Janko claim yet?

[VP Baltar]

So Bob was obviously the right wagon. I don't see 13 players all being wrong.


VOTE: Bob

Lol this MF

Hey all, I'm slammed at work at the moment, so my catch up may be a little slower than typical.

First instincts are the GB kill is weird. Need to reread his iso and see what his thoughts were.

I didn't really find the Aldus hammer a problem. Day was dragging and getting a flip was the right call.

I still think the Bob slot is likely scum given it wouldn't quite go over yesterday. Want to carefully look at how the janko wagon formed, even though it felt like a reasonable choice

More probably late today when I can actually read the last several pages.

[VP Baltar]

Quick skim at work because lol

Andres is town af right now and I'm loving it.

My read is also GB was a PR shot as Andres said. Works out in our favor given he wasn't.

VOTE: Bob

Called it yesterday and I remain correct.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, working on a proper catch up post.

bob3141 (5): VP Baltar, hellbooks, Andresvmb, jankofan, NoPowerOverMe
jankofan (7): Datisi, bob3141, Testarossa, Iconeum, Billy Pilgrim, GeorgeBailey, Alduskkel
NoPowerOverMe (1): DkKoba

So my strong feeling here is that there was definitely scum opposed to the Bob wagon. Just look at the composition of it. Hellbrooks and Andres are reasonably strong townreads for me. janko is confirm town. NPOM is the only outlier and I'm not sure how serious he actually was about pushing that wagon.

Meanwhile, the janko wagon has Bob (I mean, c'mon), Ico & Datisi (who I'm less certain we aren't getting played by one of them), Tess (who also got a wagon stalled yday) and Aldus (who is a bit of an enigma). GB is confirm town and Billy is a town lean for me (yeah yeah).

Outlier was lol!Koba who was jacking around on a go nowhere wagon after a million pages of content.

I just think it's unlikely that everyone on the janko wagon was town. I can see why townies would have joined it, but the odds of it being heavy town are unlikely unless you're calling 2/3 of hellbrooks/andres/NPOM as scum --- which, just no.

i'm actually fairly confident both EoD wagons are town. janko's wagon took a fair bit of pushing to go through. if bob were scum, i think his buddies would've joined me in pushing janko much sooner.

Couldn't you say all the wagons yesterday took a fair bit of pushing? There were like almost 70 pages D1. I don't quite follow how you're coming to this conclusion other than the janko flip makes everyone on that wagon look less good, so may as well shade both wagons.


I think...Datisi is kind of shit posting today? Like this:

the second paragraph is an afterthought that might be wrong. george's position on janko wagon made me think he was a likely scum candidate. obviously that's now proven wrong.

my point is, if bob were scum, what were his scumbuddies doing? looking at me screaming at janko the entirety of day one, only for that wagon to barely go through? i don't think that's likely. if they were committed to bussing bob, bob would've died. if they were actually trying to save him, i would've gotten more support earlier. i think the game didn't care too much which one of the two wagons got through. hence TvT.

Like, who is this supposed to convince? what were his buddies doing? The jankofan wagon happened not long after Bob replaced in and started doing his dumb VC analysis schtick. I think scum were waiting to see if a snowblaze replacement could skate (replacements often get a stay of execution for bad reasons). Plus, I think you're massively overstating the difficulty of the jankofan wagon. He wasn't exactly the paragon of town and he was yeeted over the course of roughly 15 pages...which may sound like a lot but it was literally 1 IRL day. From roughly 1275 to 1696

the second paragraph is an afterthought that might be wrong. george's position on janko wagon made me think he was a likely scum candidate. obviously that's now proven wrong.

my point is, if bob were scum, what were his scumbuddies doing? looking at me screaming at janko the entirety of day one, only for that wagon to barely go through? i don't think that's likely. if they were committed to bussing bob, bob would've died. if they were actually trying to save him, i would've gotten more support earlier. i think the game didn't care too much which one of the two wagons got through. hence TvT.

See, this is strong analysis on the wagons NPOM, and explains a likely tvt situation.

haha everyone on the janko wagon gonna be like: "OH YEAH, DEFINITELY TvT.....BOTH SIDES BOTH SIDES"

And Datisi isn't back in this thread brashly pushing for another kill. She's taking the "L". The players that shade people for pushing cases on people that flip town, that always pings me hard.

I don't think that's what andres was doing at all actually. I think he was saying Datisi was making a garbage point that obviously both wagons D1 were on town because janko flipped green. Like what? That should make zero sense unless you're really not wanting any scrutiny of the janko wagon, or you're opposed to a Bob flip. Doesn't mean Datisi is scum, but it's not a very convincing point he is making.

i seem to recall you being suspicious of janko as well, what do you think about it now? what's your read on me, and do you trust the other people currently on the bob wagon?

I've addressed a bunch of this above. I feel like you're acting...weird. I guess that is how I would describe it. You felt pretty loose and townie yesterday, and now with this flip you seem much more closed up and you're making not so great arguments, imo. That could just be the usual shame that comes with getting your elimination and it ends up being wrong, or it could be scummy. I'm reserving judgement atm.

As far as trust of other people on bob wagon RN, I feel very good about andres and pretty solid about Koba. NPOM could be town here too, though as I said above, he is the least town of the people who voted bob yesterday.

Im really hard to get lynched as town.

I ran you up pretty easy yesterday...so what's that say? YEET YEET MF

Billy you have my vote this day. After saturday ill be on vla until the very on of the day. So ill be proxying my vote to you on saturday

And im prety sure your town

Datisi thinks this guy is town.

just like how janko was scum ok then

lol

so, if bob were to flip town, would you go after VPB? do you think those two can be s/s?

Seriously, what's with the hypotheticals today. I'm telling you, you're being WEIRD.

Flipping Bob says a lot about the Billy slot and Baltar slot.

What? I could see the argument that I'm not buddies with Bob, but what does it say about Billy? When bob flips red, what's the alignment there?

can you actually say what that "a lot" is?

If Bob is scum. Billy is scum and Baltar town. If Bob town vice versa.

This is why I can't read you. I would never say something so dumb as either alignment.

(I am surly today. You are not dumb, just that statement is dumb and I feel like being surly).

Im not answering questions about hypothetical flip situations lmao

How do you feel about Datisi today for reals?

[VP Baltar]

i wouldn't townread bob for that reason.

Quick, why are you town reading Bob?

[VP Baltar]

it's been 5 minutes... how's that wiki search going?

Lol I was walking my dog.

But yeah, I'm good with going down this road. Why'd you neighborize me?

[VP Baltar]

my thoughts about the wagons were true. i genuinely thought that bob and janko were competing TvT wagons. i thought checking the main pusher of bob would be a smart idea, especially since i started to think his push on snow wasn't genuine the more i thought about it...

Why would a neighborizer fail if I was scum? Isn't the whole point of neighbors that you don't know the alignment of the person you're neighbors with?

[VP Baltar]

I'm not claiming over this stuff. Seems very questionable to me, or at the very least you got redirected or blocked. Definitely town over here and definitely wasn't neighborized

[VP Baltar]

also i'm 1-shot, but that's not too important right now.

Why use a one shot free cop on someone you don't have a strong scum read on after D1? Why not try to neighborize someone who is lynchbait to try and find that out?

Your reasoning is either bad or made up

[VP Baltar]

Ughhhhh. Are you fucking serious

[VP Baltar]

You're not gambiting me for shits are you?

[VP Baltar]

Fine.

I'm a PT cop. I investigated George Bailey last night. Got no result because he died. Was trying to root out the scum who was sitting in the background.

[VP Baltar]

why would you check georgebailey? when you could've checked bob? and did you crumb anywhere?

Didn't breadcrumb. Not really my style.

Picked GB because I figured I could easily still get scum!Bob yeeted after janko flipped green. Seemed pointless to waste my cop there when I could catch 2 scum in one day

[VP Baltar]

u know it makes me anxious that both datisi and baltar are interacting with eachother as if they are not conf scum to eachother

Nothing about what he has posted makes him conf scum

[VP Baltar]

PT cop, huh.

Yeah. I'm not happy if you're town.

[VP Baltar]

datisi did u fake ur report?

I will fucking lose my shit

[VP Baltar]

i am so fucking sorry i are you fucking kidding me

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

[VP Baltar]

i half did. i'm not a loyal neighborizer, i'm a tracker. i tracked baltar to georgebailey last night. decided to gambit to hopefully get scum!baltar to fakeclaim something like ascetic which would confscum him to me.

Cool great.

I need to sign off for a bit so I don't yell at you

[VP Baltar]

Least y'all can do for me is yeet Bob. You fucked my game after all

[VP Baltar]

How many times do I have to say yeet Bob?

[VP Baltar]

I'm a bit confused about the exact claim though. Pt cop. I mean thats a weird role without any claimed neighborhoods (not asking for claims, just a potential balance issue that may say something about whether this is real.)

So you're suggesting we also have neighbors or masons claim?
Idk about that man.
------
I'm flat out assuming from the start that given my role, there have to be neighbors. Datisi's claim actually made sense to me, so it's actually kind of lol that he is a tracker. I feel less annoyed now and I can understand why Dats claimed. Not happy that I'm going to be NK and not be useful (doc me!), but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I'm very interested in the folks trying to shade my claim or even toe around the edge that I make sense as an elimination today.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not toeing around the edge. Im literally saying its my paranoia brain suggesting that maybe scum had a voyeur that was on you making the night kill and knew that you were tracked but not neighborized.

I wasn't talking about you really

[VP Baltar]

Ico and Tess, you opposed to yeeting Bob today?

[VP Baltar]

Why GB and not anyone else on the janko wagon? You had Billy and NPOM as possible partners for Snow/bob yesterday and your reads might have changed (at least regarding Billy as I figure by one of your posts yesterday).

Actually, my read on Billy softened quite a bit. I said as much I believe. NPOM is scummy to me, but also says stupid shit. I fully expect him to get resolved before the end of the game.

If you look at the janko wagon, you have obv scum Bob early on and camped there to save his bacon. The next most obvious scum slots on that wagon are either GB or Aldus. I didn't find Aldus' hammer scummy (perhaps even townie given it was needed to advance the game). GB made a ton of sense to investigate.

[VP Baltar]

baltar, were you planning to investigate one of those two (npom/aldus) tonight?

I tend to think about my night actions after the flip. I think if Bob flips scum, they will be on the shortlist for sure.

[VP Baltar]

and if bob were to flip town?

If Bob flips town, my gut says I should look somewhere in the hellbrooks/Tess/Ico/NPOM/Koba pool.

I would take time to drill down harder there because I just think it's unlikely and I haven't given it a lot of consideration. Bob scum yields a shorter pool of suspects, imo.

[VP Baltar]

Andres I'd need to really reconsider actually. Realizing my TR on him is notably built on a bob-scum scenario

[VP Baltar]

Let's not be OMGUSy or anything.

Dude, wtf. You weren't voting for Dats. You voted for hellbooks. Wtf do you even mean?

I've found by stopping trying to make logical sense of anything he says and only focus on PoE with NPOM, my quality of life has significantly improved.

[VP Baltar]

I didn't trust VP day 1 after the initial snow wagon

WHO DO YOU THINK REPLACED SNOW AND WHO ARE YOU VOTING FOR.


I literally cannot even.

[VP Baltar]

I didn't trust VP day 1 after the initial snow wagon

WHO DO YOU THINK REPLACED SNOW AND WHO ARE YOU VOTING FOR.


I literally cannot even.

See this is what I mean.

Bro, I know. I scream inside my heart every day.

It's like, would scum ever actually say shit like this in the thread though? So confusing

[VP Baltar]

bob3141 T

Flip this slot and we will basically win the game. Calling it now

[VP Baltar]

yoinked that pagetop.

Fatality

[VP Baltar]

because they ended the day rather than give me the power (:

I considered hammering so we could stop with the endlessly yammering and get a flip, so....

[VP Baltar]

y does it feel like im the only one whos not a claimed pr rly trying

Yo, real talk corner.

Help me eliminate Bob. If he flips town and I'm alive tomorrow, I give you permission to just yeet me. You can come at me double barrel full Koba rage.

I may only be freshly back to the site and a little rusty, but I'm an expert in human behavior and when people are lying. Bob is scum and I'm not even mad you're misreading him. I'll gladly go 1v1 at this point. If he was town, scum would be all over this. But people are hesitant to vote. Bob is skating by hoping laying low is the ticket to ride. Let's do this.

[VP Baltar]

like deadass thats the one thing stopping me. i dont see snow being big brained like that to do that and they seemed to be mostly riding solo so that implies a small brain scumteam to me if bob is scum.

Blind squirrels, etc.

Letting one positive point out weight a mountain of evidence the other is a trap.

[VP Baltar]

i suggest u trust the wisdom of the ppl on this one

People's champion, will stan

[VP Baltar]

I've only skimmed because I'm pretty tight on time this weekend.

I really can't believe you all are thinking literally anyone is a better flip than Bob. Even if you have a hairbrained idea bob is town, he still makes a ton of sense from an informational standpoint. There is literally no downside to flipping Bob.

[VP Baltar]

Got a positive PT result last night, but idk if I should reveal it. Person could be a mason and I'm hesitant to out that person since I figured this was something like the trickery afoot when Datisi tracked me N1.

[VP Baltar]

Or I guess Billy tracked me? Anyhow.

[VP Baltar]

ALSO LOL DATISI IS CONFSCUM

How?

[VP Baltar]

datisi claimed tracker.. why would there be 2 trackers..

I mean, could be a few scenarios where that makes sense, but I definitely want to hear from Datisi.

[VP Baltar]

See?

It's literally what Aldus said...

[VP Baltar]

Datisi mason was kind of what I was assuming when he realized he goofed by outing me. The presence of a town PR makes my role substantially weaker, plus a tracker makes it more likely for false positives all around.

That being said, if anyone wants to counterclaim Datisi as Billy's partner, now is the time. Then we can get this 1v1 underway.

[VP Baltar]

@VPB how have you yet to claim your positive result? I presume it’s not Datisi, so your excuse is out the window.

I think we are just waiting on hellbrooks to comment, right?

[VP Baltar]

I mean, I kind of just want to claim because this person has to be scum since Datisi is clearly the other mason...

[VP Baltar]

Great.

Got a positive on hellbrooks. You sneaky sneaky sneak.

VOTE: hellbrooks

[VP Baltar]

Also, I will say, I have this on NPOM:
NPOM has been consistently agreeing with the Townier players in the game, and taken shit for it. For that, I think NPOM is maybe Town, and I should have trusted Datisi’s initial read there. The hammer yesterday though WAS AWFUL. That much I will say. If the conversation was shifting against Alduskkel, the fact that the day was ended early is not great. But I have consistently felt that this slot is mis-execution bait, and until some other slots are flipped, NPOM does not, in my opinion, make sense.

You see I have a guilty, right?

[VP Baltar]

Are you serious? You're not just gambiting me again are you?

What is your role hellbrooks?

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:

Thinking.

[VP Baltar]

Also, I find it incredible that I signed up to a normal game, and the Mod decided that a 3 person Masonry was just standard. That’s lovely.

This is a weird thing to say...

[VP Baltar]

Inbefore Baltar gets next night again a guilty and you guys reveal there is actually a fourth Mason.

You're actually all masons and we only win this by choosing not to eliminate someone. Check your role PM again.

[VP Baltar]

It's basically the Truman show to me

[VP Baltar]

@Ico Testarossa is practically guaranteed Town, should never be in any POE.

How is this again?

Also curious about what your thoughts were when I said I had a positive result? You were asking me for my results, but then kind of ignored me when I said it. Were you expecting the PT result on hellbrooks?

[VP Baltar]

also idk baltar is dead tonight anyway.

What an LOL life he had.

RIP

ACAB

[VP Baltar]

Also, if we have Hellbooks as Town, then you can probably tell that Hellbooks/NPOM is not TvT from these interactions: 793, 795, 1634.

Hasn't like everyone had a shouting match with NPOM at this point though? He's incredibly frustrating. How are you arriving at the conclusion it couldn't be TvT?

[VP Baltar]

i lowkey think no scum has been seriously threatened so far

This is my concern, and partially why I looked into hellbrooks last night.

Tess/Andres/Aldus/Icon/Koba have all more or less skated by without too serious pressure this game, Tess perhaps being the one exception early game.

[VP Baltar]

it was a post in response to you, in here

i'll be able to post thoughts tomorrow

No seriously though, how are we close to auto winning?

[VP Baltar]

like

Testarossa
DkKoba JamSV
Datisi
Alduskkel
Iconeum
VP Baltar
Andresvmb
NoPowerOverMe
hellbooks

2 conf town
i'm town

there's like 3 scum in those 3 players

preeeety confident we can solve taht?

Who are the three you're looking at?

[VP Baltar]

also datisi consider that vp also has cleared exactly 0 ppl and also visited dead (: occams razor !

I literally just proved my ability with a positive cop. Are you reading the game or just trying to ride this aloofness as a way to divert any serious attention from you?

[VP Baltar]

a PR that is part of a 3 man masonry??? thats just fucking strong!

Right, but I think my role definitely had a non-zero chance of basically helping the scum by accident through false positives very quickly. Even at a random pick, I had ok odds of hitting a mason and thinking I had scum. Further, masons had a higher likelihood to get hit simply because they would appear to play like scum to the uninformed majority. Masons aren't going to be worried as much with being associated with each other because they always have the emergency out of claiming. Those associatives could draw a cop investigation

[VP Baltar]

Koba, if you had to pick out of Andres and Aldus, who would you yeet?

[VP Baltar]

Serious question though, you want to yeet me today, Andres? Because I feel like you've been trying to edge around that as being a logical thing to do with hopes it gains traction.

[VP Baltar]

Do you see where my vote is?

I do see where your vote is. That's not what I asked though.

If you had control of however many votes, would you yeet me today?

[VP Baltar]

Like what game are you fucking reading?

I try to warn y'all about arguing with NPOM.

He's not completely wrong in the point he's making though, which is that you weren't a minor player in that wagon. I think both you and I pushed hard on that. I even went as far as saying I'd go 1v1 on it (though I figured I'd get NKed anyhow, so who cares). I think it's a little silly that you're trying to paint me as the like main reason Bob ate rope when you definitely helped (as did many other players).

[VP Baltar]

I get that I deserve just as much criticism

I don't think you do actually

[VP Baltar]

Like what game are you fucking reading?

I try to warn y'all about arguing with NPOM.

He's not completely wrong in the point he's making though, which is that you weren't a minor player in that wagon. I think both you and I pushed hard on that. I even went as far as saying I'd go 1v1 on it (though I figured I'd get NKed anyhow, so who cares). I think it's a little silly that you're trying to paint me as the like main reason Bob ate rope when you definitely helped (as did many other players).

This is an obvious misrepresentation of my position. When did I say I had nothing to do with the Bob flip? Or that I never pushed the slot or wasn’t responsible? Where? Did I say that?

The impression I'm getting is you've made several comments about how my push on snowblaze was scummy while adding qualifiers to your own involvement.

Now you're throwing Billy in there who I didn't seriously scumread since like mid-D1. I mean, it doesn't look like I'm the one misrepresenting here.

[VP Baltar]

What I clearly said is that NPOM seems to be believe that I was the main and only driver behind the Bob flip, and that you came “at the last minute”. And c’mon now, that’s absurd.

And this is different from his play the rest of the game?

[VP Baltar]

Like what game are you fucking reading?

I try to warn y'all about arguing with NPOM.

He's not completely wrong in the point he's making though, which is that you weren't a minor player in that wagon. I think both you and I pushed hard on that. I even went as far as saying I'd go 1v1 on it (though I figured I'd get NKed anyhow, so who cares). I think it's a little silly that you're trying to paint me as the like main reason Bob ate rope when you definitely helped (as did many other players).

This is an obvious misrepresentation of my position. When did I say I had nothing to do with the Bob flip? Or that I never pushed the slot or wasn’t responsible? Where? Did I say that?

The impression I'm getting is you've made several comments about how my push on snowblaze was scummy while adding qualifiers to your own involvement.

Now you're throwing Billy in there who I didn't seriously scumread since like mid-D1. I mean, it doesn't look like I'm the one misrepresenting here.

Yes, you’re right that you downplayed your SR of Billy as the game progressed. That’s easily observable. But how much is related to the fact that Billy was identified as the Tracker I don’t know. And just think about that for a minute. Why am I loudly involving Billy as the Scum before the end of D2 if I know the slot is the Tracker and is not going to flip? What incentive do I have to do that? Make myself look even worse?

This is dumb play. if I was scum and knew Billy was a tracker, you better believe I'd be doing everything in my power to run him up and force a claim. Let's say hypothetically that Billy was scum rolecopped N1. My goal as scum D2 would be to force him to claim and out other masons if I knew he was a mason tracker. Why would I back off? You run him up and try to force town into as bad of a position as possible.

BUT NONE OF THAT MATTERS

And that's because:

1) I backed off him D1. There was no way scum!VP would have known Billy was a tracker at that point.

and

2) You're suggesting that scum have a role cop and a PT cop vs. 3 town masons, one of whom is a tracker.


None of what you're saying is making any sense and it seems like you're trying to bullshit your way into a yeet on whatever you can get.

[VP Baltar]

I don't see people lining up to say I'm wrong.

I mean, you are absolutely correct either haha

[VP Baltar]

*aren't

[VP Baltar]

has everyone claimed yet? i wanted to go last bc i do have something important to claim

I think it has been out there for awhile that if you aren't going to claim VT, then you need to claim. You saying you're going to claim a PR now?

[VP Baltar]

As in good mafia players. Not just Confirmed Town.

Have you played with them before? How do you know they are good? Trying to understand this appealing to dead reads as authority.

Also, this game is hard because everyone is on such different timezones. It's 3am here and I just happened to have to get up for work.

The way I see it, the highest probability of hitting scum is in the {Andres, Tess, Aldus} grouping. Like Icon, I don't quite understand Andres' obvtown!Tess posting (yes. I read your wagon analysis. Just doesn't click with me as a way to clear people given there were town on both of those wagons too). The other grouping of {Koba, NPOM, Icon} feels much less likely to hit scum.

[VP Baltar]

@Ico, Datisi, hellbrooks - my instincts say there is a non-zero chance scum have left the door open to bus today. The PoE is very tight and I think if they want to win this, SOMEONE is going to need some hard town cred to generate enough WIFOM that it carries them through.

Obviously the scum ideal here is another miselim, but the odds on that are much smaller than they were on previous days. For example, rereading the Andres/NPOM exchange is looking like possible theater to me.

I think we just need to align the block of dats/hellbrooks/Ico/VP and then we are basically golden and can't be influenced by the PoE pool.

[VP Baltar]

I think we just need to align the block of dats/hellbrooks/Ico/VP and then we are basically golden and can't be influenced by the PoE pool.

how sure are you in town!ico?

Definitely not certain, but I think out of the PoE, they are the person I'd be least likely to want to elim today. It's a fair point though. I could be wrong there and that might flub that entire bloc.

[VP Baltar]

what do yall make of testa posting three paragraphs about andres and then finishing it by saying "but aldus might be our best shot today"

I think odds are good one of them is scum and pocketing tbh. Or they could both be and are gambling on a hard wall to get to LyLo.

I'm not a fan of either's wall of info approach. It's exactly what I do as scum when I get in trouble. There's always a bias that more words and links = town. It's why there are entire YouTube channels dedicated to 5G as the cause of the coronavirus

[VP Baltar]

If you don’t like reading too much, maybe not play forum Mafia. Try video chat mafia instead.

It's not about reading too much. It's a false sense of authority.

I actually go through all your posts and click on every link. Sometimes the link feels appropriate, but other times it just feels like you're padding to make a point stronger than it is.

If you're town, I get not wanting to be yeeted here. But making silly points like scum have both a role cop and a PT cop isn't helping your cause.

[VP Baltar]

Or I should say, one Town slot in Bob, with a gradual declining line of suspicion for Billy. To be precise.

Yes, let's be precise.

Remember when you said on D1 I was pushing Billy because I somehow knew he was a mason tracker from my scum buddy role cop who couldn't have taken an action yet.

Precision.

There is literally no world where I'm not going to question you or other players who fit the PoE, so you may as well save the histrionics about "why don't you just vote me then".

[VP Baltar]

Yes, you’re right that you downplayed your SR of Billy as the game progressed. That’s easily observable. But how much is related to the fact that Billy was identified as the Tracker I don’t know. And just think about that for a minute. Why am I loudly involving Billy as the Scum before the end of D2 if I know the slot is the Tracker and is not going to flip? What incentive do I have to do that? Make myself look even worse?

LITERALLY THE POST YOU LINK TO

You shade me by rhetorically asking how much me backing off Billy is related to him being IDed by scum.

I backed off day 1 as I read his play, so the answer is clealy that a hypothetical scum cop would have had nothing to do with it. Why are you now trying to pretend like that isn't what you're implying???

This is what I'm saying about your posting. You're making trash points but pretending like because you are linking to stuff it is credible.

[VP Baltar]

Yes, you’re right that you

You = me, VP

downplayed your SR of Billy as the game progressed. That’s easily observable.

which happened D1

But how much is related to the fact that Billy was identified as the Tracker

I don’t know.

definitely not sure. Just throwing it out there guys!

[VP Baltar]

Look, if I was certain you were scum, I'd be voting you. I'm not. So that clearly says something.

I just don't get why you're trying to smear me, but then being like Tess is obv town. I'm actually trying to see things from your perspective if you're town and you aren't making that easy when you're using things like an early early game push on Billy to say I'm scummy, but saying you're townie because you were pushing him much later in the game.

[VP Baltar]

i just woke up so thats how i feel generally. i think andres / testa / aldu are a very safe pool today based on that.

Where is your preference?

[VP Baltar]

It does.

Haha, wish I could get masonized for that sweet sweet private chat

[VP Baltar]

Datisi and hells -- what is your preference today?

[VP Baltar]

in all seriousness i'm trying to ~figure out~ this game but whatever pairing i come up with there's something pointing against it and have i ever said how much i don't like being conftown in lategame?

For sure. I don't think it should be on all three of us to fully solve the game. I think for today though, we have to take the lead and hit a scum to at least open the wedge. That allows the town players in the PoE to further whittle the list.

My instinct today in the group I highlighted earlier is Andres or Tess, but I plan to do some rereading after work today of all three.

[VP Baltar]

Your reasoning makes no sense.

Gotta love the nerve.

I lol'd

[VP Baltar]

Ok, I did some rereading and some VC analysis.

Here are my takeaways on my pool of people:

andres

- I think he and I are in the same boat in terms of bad reads this game. I could see this coming from town or scum, but I'm not going to penalize him too harshly for that. Honestly, before the bob flip, I would have had him as one of my stronger town reads and I'm not going to discount that entirely. I have felt like he's trying to solve the game. I've found his play under pressure less than stellar, fringing on intentional misrep. I don't really know andres meta (or most anyone in this game for that matter), so maybe he is the type of player who over tunnels and looks for any example he can grab without considering context....IDK. I do know him trying to shade me is notable. In some ways, I can understand given I was tracked to a body N1. That being said, I think it is fairly clear from the many discussions around the circumstances since that I'd have to be a wizard to be faking my claim...and I assure I am not. I also find his obvtown!Tess read completely bonkers.

Tess

-- I am significantly more skeptical of this slot of after reread and looking at the vote counts. Tess literally didn't vote anyone D2? That's huge freaking alarm bells for me. Plus on reread, my eyes are glazing over hard reading this. I think I was a bit of a victim to the more words = town fallacy. I just haven't found much of what Tess has said very persuasive, despite the voluminous word count. And then I realize why: There is a lot of shading people without actually committing to votes or cases. There's also a lot of bad wagon analysis coming from Tess. She actively pushed against both Datisi and Billy, but again didn't put strong pressure. Her current NPOM vote feels a bit like a "fuck it, this is the path of least resistance", more than "I am genuinely committed to yeeting this person."

Aldus

- My suspicion of Aldus mostly comes from knowing he is a good player, and his lack of being too forward in this game. He's felt a bit background from the start, but has felt more involved as the game has gone on. If I was looking for a stealthy scum in this PoE group, it'd be him. As I said before, I found his hammer D1 to actually be pretty pro-town. The day was bloated and needed a flip, and the janko case wasn't the worst in the world (though a bob flip then might have been a better choice in hindsight). Since then, Aldus has been pressuring NPOM most consistently -- and while I understand that, I think we all have the same sort of ambivalence toward NPOM. It wouldn't be my first focus as town. Aldus is a little wallpapery overall, but I felt like I saw some pretty strong town glimpses when he engaged with andres. He definitely came out the stronger looking of the two in that exchange.

VOTE: tesstarossa

[VP Baltar]

Anders, how do you feel about Tess not voting at all D2?

[VP Baltar]

Well, my concern with Tess not voting D2 is she knew what the flip would be. I would expect town to push an alternative if they thought it was a bad wagon. Instead, it was a convenient wagon to just not be on and have no associatives D2, yes?

[VP Baltar]

Tess - I will reread your interaction with Datisi again today. I only had about 30 mins of spare time yesterday to reread all three of you and go over all the vote counts again. There's a possibility I misread something. In the meantime, can you explain why you didn't vote at all D2? Why not push for another wagon if you thought Bob was going to flip town?

[VP Baltar]

Ico, why Aldus over Tess? You expressed skepticism before of Tess.

[VP Baltar]

Why sheep your townreads and not just vote me if you didn't like the claim? Does it matter what site meta is (which, idk if that is even a site meta here)?

[VP Baltar]

heres a question for testa voters:
how likely is testa/koba
how likely is testa/andres

Testsa/Andres isn't outside the realm of possibility.

Though I feel like the main thing here today is to hit correctly. I don't think any of the possible pairings make complete sense, which means some bussing has taken place at some point. Idk if trying to base the elimination on trying to pin the whole team is the best approach, since all those pairings have their flaws.

[VP Baltar]

yes to clarify i am willing to vote testa today

I'm open to hearing the Aldus over Tess argument too. What are you thinking?

[VP Baltar]

yes to clarify i am willing to vote testa today

I'm open to hearing the Aldus over Tess argument too. What are you thinking?

i think aldus is plausibly in the position of trying to coast it out and weakly bus his partners and not really throw hands (knowing that he's not in a driving role in the game and thus wont be in danger of having those busses lead directly to his partners dying). i also dont think the hammer was particularly alignment indicative. i'm happy to wait until he comes back and posts before delivering a final verdict on a prefernce

Who are his partners in this scenario? And yeah, I think we have time to wait for his return.

[VP Baltar]

All work and no play....

[VP Baltar]

Hey Andres, what do you think of Tess' progression on Billy?

[VP Baltar]

And amending my Tess reread post, she is correct she did not push on Datisi. Tess did shade hellbrooks a little earlier on, which is probably where I made my error. I was thinking about "mason shade" since all three of them were fairly widely read as town, and Tess did go after Billy the most of anyone. That's my bad.

[VP Baltar]

Also Andres, did you do a big reread of Testarossa when you were checking back on stuff? I know you did that work for several players. Unclear if the same happened for Tess or not

[VP Baltar]

hey masons if you want to win you need to talk to us.

the game is stagnated bc scum is slanking to exhaust us.

please just push a vote through. testa was increidbly scummy d1 and d2 just reread them.

Not wrong.

I understand not wanting to take responsibility for the game state because there is a lot on the line, but we need to keep moving forward and consolidate on a choice

[VP Baltar]

Also, Koba and I are online at the same time but don't have the cutesy chat of Ico and Datisi because Koba/VP is the drinking crowd. We make our choices and live by them

[VP Baltar]

datisi i know ur up at this time >.>

Oh shit, call out culture

[VP Baltar]

ico is testa town?

i don't know

but i've literally been asking why testa is scum to literally everyone and i've not gotten a single answer so...

Bull.

I made a clear case why Tess is scummy. I'm increasingly uncomfortable with Ico's avoidance of the Tess wagon