Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM [game over!]
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Lunar Martian Mafia Scum
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Or the simpler explanation is that there was too much posting, a bunch of people didn't have time to read, and so we said similar things. But you can twist facts to fit whatever narrative you want if you try hard enough. Have fun with that.In post 148, Gamma Emerald wrote:
It’s a vibe thing too. It just seemed a bit of conspicuous timing for him to come in like that. He posted 2 things others had posted as well, which seems like trying to fit in but not knowing how so he just emulated other people.In post 146, Alchemist21 wrote:
Is this just a gut read? I complained about the page count too and I could see someone deciding to be lazy and put down a dumb vote without reading anything. Is there something explainable that makes it more scummy than dummy?In post 137, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I’m not looking for “excuses” to vote anyone. I feel like LM’s entrance was wack, 5 pages isn’t bad by any measure imo and he made a dumb joke. He doesn’t know how to act rn, which might be newbish or general awkwardness but the feeling when I saw it was scum with a bad entrance.In post 134, ben dover123 wrote:Basically what I am saying is that Lunar can sometimes make these stupid posts so stuff that is stupid but not fully scummy shouldn't be treated as scummy.
If Lunar does make a scummy posts though, then there is an excuse to vote him.
I feel like I might have something because the last time I had I read I felt like I do on LM on, it panned out. So I think I’m right again here.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald-
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Lunar Martian Mafia Scum
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Why are you speaking for me? Can you stop? You're making a bunch of assumptions about what I think, say, and do, and it seems like everything you say about me just makes people think I'm Mafia. Most of your assumptions are wrong. For example, why should I assume that RVS is over on page 5 if I haven't read the game?In post 159, ben dover123 wrote:
I'm not giving excuses, this awkwardness that you guys are talking about is from a newbie rather than scummy awkwardness.In post 158, Papa Zito wrote:Would be nice if we let them respond instead of giving convenient excuses.
Just a thought.
What is weird is how LM continued to joke when he knew that we were past RVS by page 5.-
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This feels like pocketing rather than solving.In post 167, NoPowerOverMe wrote:VOTE: Elements
Ben is my top town read and seems like he knows what he is doing.
This post is OK, but it seems like a really easy thing to say. Why pick on elements and not the other people who are voting for me?In post 168, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Also I don't like elements voting limbaity Lunar.-
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Even though the second line is clearly not connected to the first at face value, it reads like the second line is trying to absolve Papa Zito of responsibility for a bad vote because Papa is out of date and rusty.In post 152, Papa Zito wrote:
I like this. VOTE: Lunar MartianIn post 148, Gamma Emerald wrote:It just seemed a bit of conspicuous timing for him to come in like that. He posted 2 things others had posted as well, which seems like trying to fit in but not knowing how so he just emulated other people.
btw I've noticed a lot of new lingo. Apologies in advance if I accidentally use archaic terms.-
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Doesn't feel like you're really evaluating whether Ben is Town though. It's just a compliment and an invitation to work together, not a reason for thinking someone is Town.In post 180, NoPowerOverMe wrote:
Townhunting is a major part of my game.In post 176, Lunar Martian wrote:
This feels like pocketing rather than solving.In post 167, NoPowerOverMe wrote:VOTE: Elements
Ben is my top town read and seems like he knows what he is doing.
This post is OK, but it seems like a really easy thing to say. Why pick on elements and not the other people who are voting for me?In post 168, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Also I don't like elements voting limbaity Lunar.-
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Voting Ben seems like the wrong response to something being "OK". I like my vote on you even better now.
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Lunar Martian Mafia Scum
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I strongly disagree. But it really isn't important. What is important is that you're doing the same thing I called you out for there. You're overconfident and pushing things you know nothing about. And in this game its also making people think you're Mafia. Maybe you should chill out, friend.In post 213, ben dover123 wrote:
???In post 211, Gamma Emerald wrote: Well ben had put into the thread that LM tends to be awkward, so we can use that to not jump to conclusions
LM is awkward and that awkwardness got him to sink right to the bottom in 2043.-
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Any response, NoPower?In post 182, Lunar Martian wrote:
Doesn't feel like you're really evaluating whether Ben is Town though. It's just a compliment and an invitation to work together, not a reason for thinking someone is Town.In post 180, NoPowerOverMe wrote:
Townhunting is a major part of my game.In post 176, Lunar Martian wrote:
This feels like pocketing rather than solving.In post 167, NoPowerOverMe wrote:VOTE: Elements
Ben is my top town read and seems like he knows what he is doing.
This post is OK, but it seems like a really easy thing to say. Why pick on elements and not the other people who are voting for me?In post 168, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Also I don't like elements voting limbaity Lunar.-
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There's a difference between people thinking you're Town and you helping the Town.In post 248, ben dover123 wrote:
In what way am I overconfident? Who thinks I'm Mafia besides Gamma?In post 246, Lunar Martian wrote: I strongly disagree. But it really isn't important. What is important is that you're doing the same thing I called you out for there. You're overconfident and pushing things you know nothing about. And in this game its also making people think you're Mafia. Maybe you should chill out, friend.
But yes, I will accept your offer to take a small break.-
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Which of the four scenarios do you think is most likely? None of this post really has any analysis.In post 219, Kazyan wrote:
Ben was pretty insistent on giving LM a chance there. Possibilities:In post 216, Alchemist21 wrote:What do you make of the reactions?
1) Ben and LM are both scum. If Lunar went down and it became obvious that theywerescum, then Ben would be next on the shopping block. In addition to that, this is statistically unlikely.
2) Ben is scum and LM is not. Not really sure if we can weight this one more heavily or less heavily yet. Ben would be sticking their neck out pretty far this early, but Ben seems intelligent enough to WIFOM it and go for the play that makes them seem more trustworthy.
3) LM is scum and Ben is not. We've already discussed LM's actions. But Ben appears to be townhunting?
4) Both are townies. This is consistent with the experienced player reading the newbie as town correctly.
Gamma seems pushy about LM, but not in a way that reads scummy to me. Gamma was also pushy on me about being a Hectic alt. I think that's just how Gamma rolls; they seem townish to me.
No clue about NPOM. It's harder to follow why they're thinking what they're thinking.
Your inquisitive posts, Alchemist, make me slightly lean scum for you, since a low-info Socratic method seems like a good way to stir up suspicions. But it's such a slight lean that I'm not gonna talk myself into it.
No comment on Elements, because...yeah.
I'd like to hear more from 2ndchosen1, Hayker, and HeWhoSwims.-
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There's really not much to say beyond I have a gut feeling that they're Town.In post 255, Dannflor wrote:
Can you expand on your Gamma, Hayker, and Alchemist reads, please?In post 251, Lunar Martian wrote:After some reflection, I believe the following people to be townsfolk: Gamma, Hayker maybe, Ben, Alchemist maybe, NoPower (although he needs to drop the "anyone who attacks the townblock is Mafia" shtick). That leaves seven people within which I'll be focusing my energy for now.
UNVOTE: Gamma-
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In post 247, Lunar Martian wrote:
Any response, NoPower?In post 182, Lunar Martian wrote:
Doesn't feel like you're really evaluating whether Ben is Town though. It's just a compliment and an invitation to work together, not a reason for thinking someone is Town.In post 180, NoPowerOverMe wrote:
Townhunting is a major part of my game.In post 176, Lunar Martian wrote:
This feels like pocketing rather than solving.In post 167, NoPowerOverMe wrote:VOTE: Elements
Ben is my top town read and seems like he knows what he is doing.
This post is OK, but it seems like a really easy thing to say. Why pick on elements and not the other people who are voting for me?In post 168, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Also I don't like elements voting limbaity Lunar.-
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This all looks like someone who is trying very hard to look like Town.In post 301, Papa Zito wrote:
It's not weird in the least. You're not giving any indication of your thought process here. Pointing to someone else's post and saying "yeah that" doesn't tell me whatIn post 272, Kazyan wrote:Pushing this early seems weird, since there wasn't really anything to push about. Wagoning on an early disruption is vaguely scummy, as I've explained in a previous post of mine. There's no reason to OMGUS if you're town.
I'm happy to give more information to the town, but I'm not sure what to say besides repeating myself.you'rethinking. I have to sort your slot. I have to figure out if you got a green or red role PM. The only way for me to do that is to get inside your head. Currently you're doing your level best to prevent me from doing so. The pushback and hand-waving only makes me more suspicious.
This entire line of questioning is noise.In post 296, Elements wrote:ok, but which do you prefer/find easier
I'm extremely curious about this vote.
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I'll give you engaged, but it actually seems that the engagement stems largely from being informed based on having a prior game with me, and not being open-minded and instead forming opinions and judgements based on that game in order to defend me while I was away. Those seem like generic buzz-wordy reasons to think someone is Town.In post 309, NoPowerOverMe wrote:
He seems engaged, uninformed and open-minded.In post 300, Lunar Martian wrote:NoPower, why is Ben town to you?-
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I don't suspect Ben. I'm just questioning NoPower's logic.In post 333, Dannflor wrote:
why is this suspicious to you?In post 331, Lunar Martian wrote:not being open-minded and instead forming opinions and judgements based on that game in order to defend me while I was away.-
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I like this post, especially the bit in the middle about Penguin. The bit at the end detracts from it though.In post 347, Kazyan wrote:I still disagree with Dannflor's assessment of Elements, but:
1) I would rather not do this again,
2) Discussing such old posts isn't advancing the play state or anything,
3) Putting pressure elsewhere will get us more information,
4) When we have a lot of newer arguments to deal with, there are bigger fish to fry, and
5) Even if we get down to brass tacks, the Elements wagon isn't happening.
With all that in mind: UNVOTE: Elements
Penguin is now talking, but not actually saying much. I don't like it.
I'm willing to call Alchemist and Hayker as light scumreads. I know I used Hayker's post as a template with which to lay out my thoughts, but that doesn't remotely mean Hayker is town.
I don't know which of the three would be productive to put some info-squeezing pressure on--Hayker, Alchemist, or Penguin. They all have one vote each. The NPOM wagon is tempting, but I'd like more information from the sources that aren't giving as much of it; I might switch to NPOM if we get to 6 votes there. So...I'll just pick one. VOTE: Penguin-
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The last paragraph of this post mostly. It has little to do with the game but seems genuine including feeling genuinely frustrated in struggling to get a message across. Not only is there an indication that Kayzan wants to work with Town, but the acknowledgement of a communication issue also explains why people might misconstrue Kayzan's posts as coming from Mafia.In post 386, Kazyan wrote:
1) I mean, yeah. I sheeped. That happened. I'm not going to defend it, because I definitely sheeped.In post 385, Gamma Emerald wrote:That seems understandable but there's also the sheeping issues and I feel like it's a bit excessive even then?
I'm curious where Alchemist said anything about lack of optics concern though. Alchemist, if that is correct, why do you find that scummy of Kazyan?
2) My post confirmed your claim that I was concerned about optics. Alchemist does not buy my post's explanation that you are correct. Therefore, Alchemist does not buy that you are correct. You claim is that I was concerned about optics, so Alchemist does not buy that I was concerned about optics. This is subject to change based on whatever Alchemist tries to backpedal on.
In the future--assuming I don't get eliminated--is there something I can do to make my lines of reasoning more clear? Between the two rounds of Elements debacle and this confusion, it's apparent that I'm not great at clarity. Dannflor's earlier null read on me seems to corroborate this.-
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I think it was a good post. I didn't like the last paragraph but I liked the openness and sharing of Kayzan's thought process.In post 382, Dannflor wrote:
so uh, is it good or badIn post 377, Lunar Martian wrote:I like this post, especially the bit in the middle about Penguin. The bit at the end detracts from it though.
how does it affect your view on Kazyan in general
why is the end bad-
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Well this post kind of sums up my thoughts on NoPower very nicely. NoPower makes a lot of short posts that don't say much. Most of them just serve to lightly discredit other people (in this case discrediting me somewhat and elements somewhat more). I also think this post is pretty ironic given what NoPower proceeded to do the next few days in terms of going after me. For someone who keeps touting the importance of finding Town, I'm not sure who NoPower thinks is Town. Not even sure if he ever even answered who is in the "townblock".In post 168, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Also I don't like elements voting limbaity Lunar.-
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Ah OK I was confused, but the rest of the post stands.In post 444, NoPowerOverMe wrote:There is no town block. I think you are confused.-
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There's actually no reason in that post though.In post 465, Alchemist21 wrote:
It’s based on this.In post 103, Alchemist21 wrote:Come on, people.
5 pages already is a bit much. I see Danfloor is IC, so that’s good. If I recall correctly he does have good reads as Town.
Let me go back and cite the post but tbere was something I didn’t like from Elements.
VOTE: Elements
It’s not a strong read but I haven’t seen anything from you that reverses the read.-
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Kazyan is Town for me because they are consistent in being inconsistent. I've discussed a few specific things that I liked, but the general vibe is that Kazyan is doing things to try and figure stuff out. They aren't afraid to be bold in standing up to consensus, like on the 2nd read. Their reads are starting to look like mine as well, so even though we started in somewhat different places and approaches to the game, we are starting to agree more and more as our thoughts become more informed.In post 480, Dannflor wrote:Does scum!NoPowerOverMe really pursue a vanity wagon on Penguin while he has a perfectly viable counterwagon in Kazyan?
I guess the flaw in that theory is what if they're both scum, but I don't see a lot of people thinking that.
Lunar, can you expand on your maybe-town read on Kazyan for me please?
Also unrelated sidenote: I have a feeling 2ndchosen is being scum leaned simply for not having as much content as other players.-
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You've repeatedly tried to buddy Dannflor with posts like this. You claimed to be masons with him but then you also joke about being scum here.In post 344, PenguinPower wrote:
yes pls scumbudy.In post 328, Dannflor wrote:Lunar Martian is also leaning town, not for being limbaity but for other reasons I'll expand on if people need them.
You are scum because you are coasting. This whole game you've done basically nothing. What are your thoughts on who is Mafia and Town? Why haven't you seemed to do anything to try and solve the game?
Also, most people have done some things that suggest that they're Town. You're pretty much unique in not doing so.-
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You're saying that you have no reads at this point though? I get that it's day 1. I'm not super confident, but I feel like it's still important to share and try. If nothing else it provides more information for later days, right?In post 503, PenguinPower wrote:You should read some of those 18k posts in my town games.-
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If your votes are essentially random or just to create wagons or counters, then looking back at your voting patterns really won't be helpful in analyzing you on subsequent days. You really don't have any thoughts or guesses? It doesn't have to be right but I'd like to see your thought process at least. That matters.-
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I don't really see or follow it either. Maybe its because I didn't memorize the thread so post numbers aren't helpful at all.In post 586, AGar wrote:
I mean, it's hard to follow a town mindset when you're a scumbag.In post 578, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Not really following agar's logic half the time to be honest. Throwing darts could give just as good results.-
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Mostly I'm going after Penguin. You didn't use it as an excuse to the same extent. Penguin literally said he wouldn't vote you because you're a mod. And Penguin isn't doing anything to solve the game "because its day 1".In post 597, Papa Zito wrote:
Actually let's talk about this, because this is the 2nd time you've thrown shade my way. The first time you did it I challenged you to vote me and got crickets in response. Here we are again and you've again not voted me. Why.In post 592, Papa Zito wrote:
This is some very serious shade.In post 591, Lunar Martian wrote:I love how the site admins are trying to use the fact that they are site admins as a shield (especially Penguin), but neither of them is actually doing much to help solve the game.-
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The part directed at me isn't what happened, and its not what Papa claimed happened. You should read the thread before jumping in and voicing such aggression.In post 601, AGar wrote:
The Cincy/UGA game was ending while I was reading that (ugh), honestly, so I was reading and making mental notes but not typing. I probably need to re-read that bit again to see if there's anything I missed, but nothing particularly popped out that I felt the need to note by post #.In post 592, Papa Zito wrote:Holy shit I'm playing mafia with AGar. 2021 off to a gr8 start.
Kinda curious though, why did your catchup post peter out in the 200s?
Also accusing skittles of using "admin work" to justify absence is a hell of a take when 1) they aren't doing that and 2) that would be a gross thing for them to do so accusing them of that is twice as gross.
I'd like to really push consideration for a yeet of Hayker. They haven't done much for me to consider them town and their interactions have felt "don't rock the boat"ish, while their 'defense' of townreading Zito was, um, to be kind - fabricated - and read like a slip of being too confident in their ability to "save a town" player and reeked of being informed. I can do a bigger post if people want more persuasion but 547 pinged me hard enough to go from wanting to vote NPOM to being more convinced Hayker needs to eat a yeet. If not I'll switch over to a leading wagon to make sure we get a yeet but we should really really yeet the shit out of Hayker.-
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In post 513, PenguinPower wrote:
Because he's a purple name and I don't want to yeet him d1.In post 511, Lunar Martian wrote:Let's try this: why wouldn't you vote Papa Zito?
Which part did I misread?In post 506, PenguinPower wrote:I'm saying that I don't have any good reads and would vote for most players right now except for zito and dann. I don't really care what people have to say Day 1 during day 1 because it's easy to just say whatever you need to appear townie. Looking back at it later can be helpful, but the votecount is moreso. You'll note that almost all my voting has been done to create/increase wagons or counterwagons just to see how things rise and fall.
We still haven't had a proper wagon today which is somewhat disconcerting.-
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His reads seem backwards and he's being overly aggressive. Feels like he's trying to bully his way into having people think he's Town.In post 626, Gamma Emerald wrote:why-
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This is directed at Agar right, not at me?In post 634, 2ndchosen1 wrote:I'm awake mod, I swear
Whether Ben was hiding AND not interested or just not interested is still a bit iffy to me. I have to admit that LM has a point on the aggressiveness, Agar comes in and seems to immediately know exactly who is best to Wagon pointing to some posts that don't entirely give scum indictative to me on D1. While I'll acknowledge some of the reads seem to fit for me, like hayker. Others seem off to me, like GE and Kazyan.
Could you expand on those reads? I acknowledge they are your D1 reads and subject to change but I'm wondering what got you to such a list.
I'm looking forward to the promised hayker expansion too.-
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Dislike this.In post 645, Kazyan wrote:VOTE: Hayker
AGar's "screw Hayker" masterpost is convincing. I basically have no idea what Hayker's broader reads are.
Willing to switch to Alchemist at a moment's notice, though.-
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Don't you have Town intentions? What about your own thinking?In post 784, NoPowerOverMe wrote:There's a difference between sheeping the IC and knowing that they have the best chance of having town intentions.-
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Are you upset about the pizza or the FoS?In post 814, Papa Zito wrote:oh no-
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I'll do this for you. I'm already on Papa for coasting and for discrediting me, but not really doing much else or anything to solve. I'll keep an eye on HeWhoSwims.In post 835, Dannflor wrote:I'm by no means 100% confident that Papa Zito/HeWhoSwims are scum. But they are my absolute top picks and since I'm likely to not be participating in this game anymore soon, I would like people to take a long hard look at both of them and particularly my case on them. And if we still have a vig tonight, even better.
But yes, Hayker is #1 priority.-
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This post does a lot to discredit unwnd's analysis, but offers no new analysis.In post 858, Papa Zito wrote:
From my understanding your logic is: There must be scum on the current Hayker wagon. You know you are not scum, you believe Lunar to be town for reasons unknown, therefore Gamma is the most likely suspect. I don't find this line of thought terribly convincing because:In post 852, unwnd wrote:Zito, you think Lunar is scum from my small dive so I want to know what you think of my logic presented as a whole right now.
* it doesn't talk about Kayzan, also on the wagon, at all
* it's a somewhat arbitrary division of players; one could just as easily take the "not voting" category of players instead
* I don't really think Lunar is town
That aside, your arguments for Gamma Emerald to be the correct pick aside from pure process of elimination are:
I don't really understand this point. What are "flat" vs "non-flat" (?) responses? Can you give examples of which particular responses you consider "flat" and why?lot of his responses to me are pretty flat and posts like #615 in regards to his own attention span feels attributed to a guilty conscience
Why do you attribute 615 to a "guilty conscience" vs ... I dunno, anything else?
I don't really understand this point either. Are you saying you think he hasn't been confrontational enough? Or that he hasn't argued with enough people? Can you explain what you mean here?His trajectory this game so far seems like an intentional means to not upset anyone, where-in his responses are very measured. I tend to backspace a lot more as scum because I'm really careful about the way I explain my thought process as I don't want to leave any holes for townies to pick up on. In that sense, I feel the restraint is intentional.
I think this is a restatement of the 2nd argument unless I'm mistaken.It's not that saying 'hm' or thinking about things makes you scum, it is everything surrounding that empty thought. Just a lot of mundane responses and mostly attuned to what is going around him instead of going out and seeking answers.
Overall - my current thought is that a lot of your criticisms are extremely vague.-
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Lunar Martian Mafia Scum
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Lunar Martian Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 1409
- Joined: December 3, 2020
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