Mini Normal 2277 - Frog Images (Game Over)

[Seanzie]

I've analyzed all the posts in the thread and even though only half the playerbase has checked in, I have determined the wolf team beyond a reasonable doubt. I'd tell you all who the wolves are, but that'd make the game unfun for everyone else, so I'll hold off for now.

Also, hello everyone!

Spoiler: disclaimer

the term "beyond a reasonable doubt" here means with probability exactly 1/220.

[Seanzie]

I've analyzed all the posts in the thread and even though only half the playerbase has checked in, I have determined the wolf team beyond a reasonable doubt. I'd tell you all who the wolves are, but that'd make the game unfun for everyone else, so I'll hold off for now.

Also, hello everyone!

Spoiler: disclaimer

the term "beyond a reasonable doubt" here means with probability exactly 1/220.

"I have discovered a truly marvelous solve, which, however, the character limit is not large enough to contain."

Precisely.

[Seanzie]

I think seanzie's magic cold read is technically better than completely random? there should be 286 possible combinations in a 13 player normal with 3 scum if my math is right

And how many solves do you think I considered where I was scum?

[Seanzie]

Oh schadd_'s here.

hmmm....

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

I don't see the "hmmm..." post as suspicious, but the post telling us how suspicious it was isn't doing you any favors.

Unvote, Vote: Seanzie

It is doing me plenty of favors.

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

What about it is supposed to be suspicious?

I've seen wolves "hmm..." posts to make it look like they're thinking hard about something while not actually giving any takes, and they can later use that post to fit pretty much any narrative (i.e. if I was a wolf and later today I push Galron, I could be like "see, I suspected them all the way back here!" vs if I decide to townread them, I could be like "yeah, I thought a lot about them as early as this and decided they look townie!".

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

I don't see the "hmmm..." post as suspicious, but the post telling us how suspicious it was isn't doing you any favors.

Unvote, Vote: Seanzie

it does show a certain kind of self-awareness I think scum are more likely to have
VOTE: Seanzie

This is a fake read. Anyone want to guess why?

[Seanzie]

was somebody supposed to tell you it was scummy? what was your plan in that case

I was kind of hoping someone would, yeah. Gotta get the game going somehow, and I read people better when they push me. Since I know no one here, it would have been helpful to see how people reacted to me.

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

I don't see the "hmmm..." post as suspicious, but the post telling us how suspicious it was isn't doing you any favors.

Unvote, Vote: Seanzie

it does show a certain kind of self-awareness I think scum are more likely to have
VOTE: Seanzie

This is a fake read. Anyone want to guess why?

because it's you? lol

Nope, good try.

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

why would anyone have called it sus?

Here:

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

What about it is supposed to be suspicious?

I've seen wolves "hmm..." posts to make it look like they're thinking hard about something while not actually giving any takes, and they can later use that post to fit pretty much any narrative (i.e. if I was a wolf and later today I push Galron, I could be like "see, I suspected them all the way back here!" vs if I decide to townread them, I could be like "yeah, I thought a lot about them as early as this and decided they look townie!".

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

What about it is supposed to be suspicious?

I've seen wolves "hmm..." posts to make it look like they're thinking hard about something while not actually giving any takes, and they can later use that post to fit pretty much any narrative (i.e. if I was a wolf and later today I push Galron, I could be like "see, I suspected them all the way back here!" vs if I decide to townread them, I could be like "yeah, I thought a lot about them as early as this and decided they look townie!".

why did you essentially decide to try a reaction test?
Also where have you seen scum do this sort of thing before?

As I already said gotta get the game going somehow. It seems to have worked quite nicely, tbh.

In multiple games. Most notably, I caught my friend Mac because he was "hmm..."ing a bunch of my posts in a mountainous game (I mean, I had other reasons to suspect him, but this was icing on the cake), and I've seen myself doing it as wolf as well (granted, I also do it as town sometimes, so idk if it is AI, but it is something that someone could reasonably push early on to get the game going).

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

I don't see the "hmmm..." post as suspicious, but the post telling us how suspicious it was isn't doing you any favors.

Unvote, Vote: Seanzie

do you figure that they felt they made a scummy post and wanted to pre empt it or something

No.

Then why was the post not doing me any favors?

[Seanzie]

VOTE: RedCardinal

[Seanzie]

I wanna move my vote but also want Galron to actually do something before I do so

Who do you want to move to?

Do you expect Galron to act differently based on a single vote on them?

[Seanzie]

Seems awfully quick to say someone could be playing "frozen".

3 players haven't even posted yet.

^this

[Seanzie]

was somebody supposed to tell you it was scummy? what was your plan in that case

I was kind of hoping someone would, yeah. Gotta get the game going somehow, and I read people better when they push me. Since I know no one here, it would have been helpful to see how people reacted to me.

Fascinating. Does this make sense to anybody else?

i mean it is fascinating, an interesting study, but can be a town ploy to draw sus. or can be scum ploy to seem like town ploy to draw sus. idk, either way i sure hope Seanzie isn't going to whirlwind into me whenever i hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

hmmm....

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

What about it is supposed to be suspicious?

I've seen wolves "hmm..." posts to make it look like they're thinking hard about something while not actually giving any takes, and they can later use that post to fit pretty much any narrative (i.e. if I was a wolf and later today I push Galron, I could be like "see, I suspected them all the way back here!" vs if I decide to townread them, I could be like "yeah, I thought a lot about them as early as this and decided they look townie!".

This is TvT, I had similar misunderstandings as town and got dogpiled by other townies.

This looks like TMI.

What "misunderstandings" are being had here?

[Seanzie]

honestly though d1 my thought process kind of goes in circles due to lack of concrete info, I'm happy just voting after whoever posts the least which at this point is fancypants, what do you think seanzie?

I disagree that D1 does not have concrete info. Reads don't need flips or mech, granted those things can help.

I am not at this time interested in going after Fancypants. Why is this targeted at me specifically?

[Seanzie]

By the by, while I'm interested in everyone's thoughts re: my last question, I'm particularly interested in a response from redcardinal and hope that it is in her next post.

everything but the reading people better when they push me bit. I can understand most of seanzie's explained thought process from a town pov, but the way he asks questions and explains his bait feels kind of fake, like scum that is too self aware and absorbed in their own play

Why doesn't the "reading people better when they push me" part not make sense?

[Seanzie]

honestly though d1 my thought process kind of goes in circles due to lack of concrete info, I'm happy just voting after whoever posts the least which at this point is fancypants, what do you think seanzie?

I disagree that D1 does not have concrete info. Reads don't need flips or mech, granted those things can help.

I am not at this time interested in going after Fancypants. Why is this targeted at me specifically?

Why do you think?

I'd like to hear it from you.

[Seanzie]

By the by, while I'm interested in everyone's thoughts re: my last question, I'm particularly interested in a response from redcardinal and hope that it is in her next post.

everything but the reading people better when they push me bit. I can understand most of seanzie's explained thought process from a town pov, but the way he asks questions and explains his bait feels kind of fake, like scum that is too self aware and absorbed in their own play

Why doesn't the "reading people better when they push me" part not make sense?

I don't understand why you would read people better when they push you as opposed to when they push someone else

Well, I didn't really say the "as opposed" part. It is more like "as opposed to if they townlock me". I've been bamboozled more by buddying than I have been pushed for a misyeet (well... successfully pushed for a misyeet). Having someone push me makes me feel things, and those feelings tend to lead to good reads. To be honest, I usually OMGUS at first, but then after I see how the person adjusts their push, I tend to get a reasonable read on them.

I don't think watching someone push someone else would be as beneficial though. I don't know the full history of the two individuals, and I don't know the alignment of the pushee. I also am not as involved in the conflict, which limits my ability to read through interaction. Not saying I can't get AI content from such pushes, but I definitely have a lot of times where if someone pushes me, I'll be like "yeah, you clearly believe your suspicion of me, you're town" or "your push is wolfy af". I just haven't had as many moments like that from people pushing other people.

[Seanzie]

honestly though d1 my thought process kind of goes in circles due to lack of concrete info, I'm happy just voting after whoever posts the least which at this point is fancypants, what do you think seanzie?

what do you think of Galron?

first pick right now for scum. worse to actually post and say nothing than even to not post, was wondering if seanzie would pick up on that. might just read some of his games and see if he's always this deep in his own head or if he does this as scum to obfuscate

Eh, this is not a good way to read someone IMO. It is barely 24 hours into the game and there are tons of NAI reasons someone could have only posted once by now. Smells more like feeling out LHF tbh.

[Seanzie]

honestly though d1 my thought process kind of goes in circles due to lack of concrete info, I'm happy just voting after whoever posts the least which at this point is fancypants, what do you think seanzie?

what do you think of Galron?

first pick right now for scum. worse to actually post and say nothing than even to not post, was wondering if seanzie would pick up on that. might just read some of his games and see if he's always this deep in his own head or if he does this as scum to obfuscate

Eh, this is not a good way to read someone IMO. It is barely 24 hours into the game and there are tons of NAI reasons someone could have only posted once by now. Smells more like feeling out LHF tbh.

Galron has 6 useless posts, not 1.. Unless you're talking about someone else?

I'm assuming the "worse to actually post and say nothing than even to not post, was wondering if seanzie would pick up on that." was about Fancypants since Red specifically asked me about fancypants (so saying "wondering if Seanzie would pick up on that" makes little sense if they were talking about Galron.

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

you made a non-RVS galron vote here but dropped it to vote red before explaining.Why did you vote Galron here?

Their "oh Shodd's here" post looked like it could be trying to create a bad teammate interaction. Nothing strong, but latching onto weak things early on gets the game going.

[Seanzie]

honestly though d1 my thought process kind of goes in circles due to lack of concrete info, I'm happy just voting after whoever posts the least which at this point is fancypants, what do you think seanzie?

what do you think of Galron?

first pick right now for scum. worse to actually post and say nothing than even to not post, was wondering if seanzie would pick up on that. might just read some of his games and see if he's always this deep in his own head or if he does this as scum to obfuscate

Eh, this is not a good way to read someone IMO. It is barely 24 hours into the game and there are tons of NAI reasons someone could have only posted once by now. Smells more like feeling out LHF tbh.

Galron has 6 useless posts, not 1.. Unless you're talking about someone else?

I'm assuming the "worse to actually post and say nothing than even to not post, was wondering if seanzie would pick up on that." was about Fancypants since Red specifically asked me about fancypants (so saying "wondering if Seanzie would pick up on that" makes little sense if they were talking about Galron.

I didn't misspeak

This doesn't clarify anything. Was my interpretation of your post correct?

[Seanzie]

no

Well then, it seems you are much more interested in talking about me than anyone else, even though you have thus far been unwilling to actually state a stance on me. What am I to make of that?

[Seanzie]

I looked into some of Galron's past games. He does kind of goof around at the beginning, but usually switches to at least some content pretty quickly. I only found one scum game of theirs (I'm sure there are more, I was just randomly checking games and only saw one out of my random selection), and they also weren't like they are here with only a few awkward non-content posts, but I don't think they picked up early suspicion in that game like they did here, so that might be affecting things.

Okay with the vote there, even though it would be good to push people to give takes on more than just Galron today so we have more to go into tomorrow with regardless of their flip.

[Seanzie]

Yes
He’s pretty goofy as town but he’s at least around as town
He’s a statue here.

Hi.

Do you have any reads thus far?

[Seanzie]

Galton made 7 posts in a row and they all said absolutely nothing, then he proceeded to.. "lol" when asked to give actual content?

Galton is exuding quite an impressive level of don't give a shit here. People have brought up other games of his: Is there any precedent for him acting this way?

I'm definitely not a Galton meta expert by any means, but all of the games I looked at had at least one or two takes within the first 10-15 posts, some more. This includes the one wolf game I looked at. Thus, I don't think it makes much sense to read them via meta on this, unless there are players that know them well (I don't really know how much you all know each other).

[Seanzie]

i do also think eiralox is a wolf, who i'm voting rn

Care to explain your thoughts there?

[Seanzie]

umm they really didnt do any scumhunting

Okay, fair enough. Do scum usually do nothing on this site?

[Seanzie]

well i mostly mean in the sense that their posts dont have like initiative / curiousness about ppls alignments, which i think you would look for on any site. although to give something only partially related, i've noticed for a long time while modding that scum are generally pretty significantly lower in the post count numbers

I agree with that, but I think most non-newbie scum are able to fake this to at least some degree. Most suspects people have given today are what I'd consider more-or-less zero-content slots, which are pretty much purely rand in my experience. High-posting low-content tends to hit more than low posting zero content. Decrease in content over time also is AI IME, but no content I don't know how to read into, at least early on (if no content continues indefinitely, they become policy).

I will say their "ribbit ribbit" hopping along with their lack of follow-up could be a bad wolf trying to look like they're doing things and failing, so perhaps the zero-content rand read is not quite accurate. Are they an experienced player?

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

What about it is supposed to be suspicious?

I've seen wolves "hmm..." posts to make it look like they're thinking hard about something while not actually giving any takes, and they can later use that post to fit pretty much any narrative (i.e. if I was a wolf and later today I push Galron, I could be like "see, I suspected them all the way back here!" vs if I decide to townread them, I could be like "yeah, I thought a lot about them as early as this and decided they look townie!".

This is TvT, I had similar misunderstandings as town and got dogpiled by other townies.

This looks like TMI.

What "misunderstandings" are being had here?

About "hmm" posts.

who exactly is misunderstanding who, though? Cresent simply asked me a question and I clarified. I don't see this as a misunderstanding, if anything it is us coming to a mutual understanding. So, what are you seeing? Where is this "tvt misunderstanding" you're seeing? Because from where I'm seeing, I think you didn't actually read the exchange, and slapped on "tvt" to a post without thought. Town probably wouldn't do this, and while it is possible a wolf could do this when their wolfmate is one of the subjects, wolves tend to be overly concerned with their partners, whereas you show a lack of concern/reading, so I'mma say it again, this looks like TMI.

[Seanzie]

yeah schadd_ whatever tbh. there's still plenty of time this game im not gonna sheep some1 on sheanzie or galron just to create the illusion that i think there is enough evidence for one of them being scum this early. i'll speak when i have something to say, rn i don't

UNVOTE: Fancy Pants

don't really think i should unvote, but maybe the replace is gonna have more to say than pants did. im out 4 now.

It is concerning that you don't have anything to say. There is plenty of stuff to form reads on by now.

[Seanzie]

yeah schadd_ whatever tbh. there's still plenty of time this game im not gonna sheep some1 on sheanzie or galron just to create the illusion that i think there is enough evidence for one of them being scum this early. i'll speak when i have something to say, rn i don't

UNVOTE: Fancy Pants

don't really think i should unvote, but maybe the replace is gonna have more to say than pants did. im out 4 now.

It is concerning that you don't have anything to say. There is plenty of stuff to form reads on by now.

not for me. stop telling me what to do. I play how I want. If you have any actual reason to scumread me, spill it. dont prevaricate and waste my eye time.

I can already see this is gonna be a frustrating game based on scumreads for low activity over a weekend. I stand by what I said, I have nothing to add rn. All i see are weak cases fielded for weak reasons and the concurrent weak responses. I'll form reads in my own time.

I'm not telling you what to do, I'm giving my thoughts on what you've done.

See, this post suggests you didn't have time to form reads because of the weekend, but your last one it was because there wasn't enough content. Which one is it? Or is it just whatever excuse you can think of at the time?

[Seanzie]

yeah schadd_ whatever tbh. there's still plenty of time this game im not gonna sheep some1 on sheanzie or galron just to create the illusion that i think there is enough evidence for one of them being scum this early. i'll speak when i have something to say, rn i don't

UNVOTE: Fancy Pants

don't really think i should unvote, but maybe the replace is gonna have more to say than pants did. im out 4 now.

It is concerning that you don't have anything to say. There is plenty of stuff to form reads on by now.

not for me. stop telling me what to do. I play how I want. If you have any actual reason to scumread me, spill it. dont prevaricate and waste my eye time.

I can already see this is gonna be a frustrating game based on scumreads for low activity over a weekend. I stand by what I said, I have nothing to add rn. All i see are weak cases fielded for weak reasons and the concurrent weak responses. I'll form reads in my own time.

I'm not telling you what to do, I'm giving my thoughts on what you've done.

See, this post suggests you didn't have time to form reads because of the weekend, but your last one it was because there wasn't enough content. Which one is it? Or is it just whatever excuse you can think of at the time?

lol i warn u not to push me, i can get like a badger. it was weekend, i was chill, i read through thread as time went on, saw nothing major, had no major reason to engage. rn im actually really not gonna add something for a while, i dont wanna, that's it. don't think im not wathcin' u tho, ur an interesting one.


this time out fo real imma got things 2 do

On the other hand, I invite you to push me. I can usually tell if you mean it or not, so it will help me get a read on a slot that otherwise seems committed to staying in the "contentless" area until they inevitably get PoE'd.

[Seanzie]

As someone who townread Eiralox basically all game in 2273, the harshness of that reaction in #201 scumpinged me. It feels like it's getting very defensive to justify a lack of action instead of the more "whatever" reaction I'd expect. Like, I know I've been underwhelming in activity myself, but I also haven't felt the need to yell at other people to mask it.

You seem to really want us to know you've been low activity. Why? Have you been low activity?

[Seanzie]

On the other hand, I invite you to push me.

trust me you don't want that.

L
The issue I have with her: I mention a group of people that's inactive, and one of them both quickly pops in and gets very defensive when questioned on their lack of content. That kind of defensiveness simply wasn't present in the personality of this player in 2273. She was angry a bunch, but not defensive.

Crescent, please read and see that I addressed my wake-up post at schadd_ specifically, who mentioned my inactivity before you did(And who's voting me with the erstwhile Pants). Your mention of me rang no bells.

What I want should be irrelevant. If you believe I'm scum, push me. If not, what are you wasting your breath about?

[Seanzie]

UNVOTE: unvote

VOTE: KittyTacky

[Seanzie]

Whether that’s a sure scumtell depends on if he has done it as town before
In a vacuum, I would call it more likely scum because they have a PT to gather additional info from w/out reading the main thread

Scum rarely communicate like this in their BTSC from my experience. Like the only way I could see my TMI accusation making it into scumchat would be if it was spot on, but then in that world scum!Galron would know it was about KT rather than Red, and so this mistake being a scumchat slip is extremely unlikely IMO.

Also, this "sure scumtell unless he's done it before" thing is... extremely scummy IMO. There are tons of ways someone can things in the thread slightly wrong, and a lack of evidence of them doing a similar goof earlier does not make it a "sure scumtell". This is a bad read with way too much strength behind it IMO.

Now weither that points to you/Galron being s/s or s/t idk, but it does make me pretty suspicious of you.

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

I don't see the "hmmm..." post as suspicious, but the post telling us how suspicious it was isn't doing you any favors.

Unvote, Vote: Seanzie

it does show a certain kind of self-awareness I think scum are more likely to have
VOTE: Seanzie

This is a fake read. Anyone want to guess why?

Why is this tmi seanzie?

As has already been pointed out, I am not accusing that of being TMI. Instead, I thought it looked somewhat fake because the same self-awareness they were accusing me of would cause scum!me to not draw attention to the "hmmm..." post if I thought it was scummy. Granted, in hindsight, I do admit that I was kind of expecting Red to have a higher regard for my wolf game than they might have of a stranger. Plus, I feel okay about Red right now, so that post no longer is a major concern of mine.

[Seanzie]

Galron/Seanzie/Eiralox scumteam maybe?

Is this just OMGUS or do you have an actual reason to suspect me aside from me calling out a bad read you gave?

[Seanzie]

Galron/Seanzie/Eiralox scumteam maybe?

Is this just OMGUS or do you have an actual reason to suspect me aside from me calling out a bad read you gave?

I think your vote on galron earlier was probably flimsy distancing

Orrr...

[Seanzie]

was somebody supposed to tell you it was scummy? what was your plan in that case

I was kind of hoping someone would, yeah. Gotta get the game going somehow, and I read people better when they push me. Since I know no one here, it would have been helpful to see how people reacted to me.

Fascinating. Does this make sense to anybody else?

Isn’t what Seanzie did a thing that happens a lot?

A reaction test that ends after two hours for no reason with no reactions either way? No, to my knowledge it is not a thing that happens a lot.

It wasn't really a reaction test in the sense that when I posted the "hmm..." I did not mean it as a test. Instead, it was more like when I got back to the thread and saw no one posted, I saw my post and was like "if I wasn't me, I woulda called that shit out to get the game going... but no one did. Oh well. Missed opportunity on their part."

[Seanzie]

honestly though d1 my thought process kind of goes in circles due to lack of concrete info, I'm happy just voting after whoever posts the least which at this point is fancypants, what do you think seanzie?

what do you think of Galron?

first pick right now for scum. worse to actually post and say nothing than even to not post, was wondering if seanzie would pick up on that. might just read some of his games and see if he's always this deep in his own head or if he does this as scum to obfuscate

Eh, this is not a good way to read someone IMO. It is barely 24 hours into the game and there are tons of NAI reasons someone could have only posted once by now. Smells more like feeling out LHF tbh.

I don’t like the way Seanzie defends himself here. Its like he’s explaining why the read is bad without actually talking to the person giving the read, in order to avoid creating conflict.

I don't think you understand my post. I wasn't talking about myself there, but saying that Red's take on Fancypants being scummy because they had posted only once was bad and possibly them going after LHF (granted, they were actually talking about Galron, but that is a whole other story, my response was thinking they were talking about FancyPants).

[Seanzie]

????
the post you responded to was about galron

Yes, and Red and I already went over this and resolved the misunderstanding. Are you reading the thread? If you don't remember this, I can pull the posts for you.

[Seanzie]

oh you addressed that
still, how tf did you think red was talking about FP?

Red originally asked me about FP, and then you quoted that post to ask Red about Galron. The way Red mentioned me in their response to you made me think that the first sentence of their response was an answer to your question, and the second was elaborating on why they asked me about FP. Them mentioning me in the past tense without asking me something made me think it was in reference to something they had already asked me, aka about FP.

[Seanzie]

based on context that was clearly about galron, who was commented to have posted stuff that was scummier than just not posting at all before

The "was" in the second sentence begs to differ, but I get the feeling that you aren't going to see it my way regardless of what I say, so let's try something different: I've explained the miscommunication multiple times now and you're still trying to talk about it. Is there something AI here in your opinion, or if not, what is your intention with this?

[Seanzie]

kittytacky can I get some insight into your reads beyond galron?

Seanzie town, Crescent town, Mala slightly town. Gamma probably town too.

Why am I town?

[Seanzie]

T3 is like night and day from the last few times I played with them, but I'm guessing it is for NAI reasons (I'm assuming they aren't multitabing like 8 games right now).

[Seanzie]

RedCardinal, I choose you! some people have scumread you, but meh. I don't believe it. This post is important.

[Seanzie]

Thinking about putting Galron at E-1.

[Seanzie]

Yeh VOTE: Galron

[Seanzie]

You don't seem to be doing a lot of Galron pushing after you started accusing me of bussing.

I do want to hear where this thought comes from, as just last night he went after me because he misread my posts and thought I was defending him.

ooooooh if this is referring to me my pronouns are she/her

I think it's referring to me.

kittytacky can I get some insight into your reads beyond galron?

Seanzie town, Crescent town, Mala slightly town. Gamma probably town too.

Why am I town?

Gut and your response to pressure.

Good nyaight.

What was townie about my response to pressure?

[Seanzie]

UNVOTE: Galron

VOTE: KittyTacky

[Seanzie]

I kinda dislike Sean's only post in the last two pages being a switch to KT because it feels like a lateral move at best that lacks context. I feel like the most likely options are that Galron and KT are both scum or they're both town. It feels like a reaction for the sake of a reaction.

I almost accidentally posted that saying they're both scum or they're both scum that woulda been funny.

I doubt Galron is scum based off their claim. Backup is a tough scumclaim since it is more-or-less self-resolving. Eventually we will massclaim and if there isn't a neighbor that Galron is backing up, they're outed. If there is, they're likely telling the truth because I don't think it's likely scum would have knowledge about PTs at this point.

Why can Galron/KT not be t/s? I don't see that being such a crazy world.

[Seanzie]

Just because Galron is true claiming doesn’t make him town. That’s a naive mindset.

Your face is a naive mindset.

[Seanzie]

Just because Galron is true claiming doesn’t make him town. That’s a naive mindset.

Your face is a naive mindset.

um, so do you think the role makes galron town then

I think it makes Galron more likely town, yes. Granted though the way people have been acting, maybe neighbor isn't as townie as a role on this forum as what I'd expect. Either way, I still kinda think KT is a better elim right now.

[Seanzie]

Oh and I don't see Kitty/Garlon being S/T based on like, pretty much everything Kitty has done. Scum rarely votes town with that kind of showmanship, and Kitty only got strongly defensive when paired as scum with Galron by multiple people, during which they accused someone of "chainsawing" or whatever and using Galron as an excuse to suspect them instead of suspecting Galron himself when it wasn't true.

If this is S/T, what is Kitty's motive in drawing so much attention to it, but doing nothing else? What is Kitty's motive in reacting to Red the way they did to Red iIf Galron is town? Why would they feel the need to be this defensive in the first place? I already personally said by this point I down think it's S/T, and that their vote is only the worst vote on Galron if Galron is scum. I feel like I'm not the only one with this mentality.

S/T doesn't make any sense to me here, and I don't feel like we're walking into some elaborate masterminded setup here, either.

I don't really agree with this post. There are plenty of ways Kitty/Galron could be s/t here. I don't agree that Kitty's vote couldn't be scum voting a townie. In a s/t world, Kitty saying Red was chainsaw defending Galron is a good way to continue pushing Galron in the situation and after a Galron townflip, Kitty has an out to back off Red, dissolving the tension there. Kitty's behavior has just been wolfy, and that is regardless of Galron's alignment. Galron's play has been more null IMO, not townie, but not directly wolfy either.

[Seanzie]

Just because Galron is true claiming doesn’t make him town. That’s a naive mindset.

Your face is a naive mindset.

um, so do you think the role makes galron town then

I think it makes Galron more likely town, yes. Granted though the way people have been acting, maybe neighbor isn't as townie as a role on this forum as what I'd expect. Either way, I still kinda think KT is a better elim right now.

I've yet to see an all-town hood in a game, though I know it theoretically can happen.

I will take that into account since I suspect you are more familiar with MS setups than I am. On the flipside, I've never seen a mafia neighbor except in games that have neighbor-specific setups (like a "couple's retreat" game where everyone was lovered to someone else, including a few townies to scum).

[Seanzie]

Oh and I don't see Kitty/Garlon being S/T based on like, pretty much everything Kitty has done. Scum rarely votes town with that kind of showmanship, and Kitty only got strongly defensive when paired as scum with Galron by multiple people, during which they accused someone of "chainsawing" or whatever and using Galron as an excuse to suspect them instead of suspecting Galron himself when it wasn't true.

If this is S/T, what is Kitty's motive in drawing so much attention to it, but doing nothing else? What is Kitty's motive in reacting to Red the way they did to Red iIf Galron is town? Why would they feel the need to be this defensive in the first place? I already personally said by this point I down think it's S/T, and that their vote is only the worst vote on Galron if Galron is scum. I feel like I'm not the only one with this mentality.

S/T doesn't make any sense to me here, and I don't feel like we're walking into some elaborate masterminded setup here, either.

I don't really agree with this post. There are plenty of ways Kitty/Galron could be s/t here. I don't agree that Kitty's vote couldn't be scum voting a townie. In a s/t world, Kitty saying Red was chainsaw defending Galron is a good way to continue pushing Galron in the situation and after a Galron townflip, Kitty has an out to back off Red, dissolving the tension there. Kitty's behavior has just been wolfy, and that is regardless of Galron's alignment. Galron's play has been more null IMO, not townie, but not directly wolfy either.

The issue I have is I don't see Kitty having any need to have that reaction to Red in the first place in that scenario. It feels unnecessary to go in that hard.

Kitty was starting to get heat, and they lashed out at the person giving them heat, trying to fight their way out of the heat. That is not an uncommon thing for wolves to do and does not depend on Galron's alignment IMO.

[Seanzie]

@Galron

Is your role exactly "backup neighbor"? If not, can you give your exact role title? Also a short description of how it works?

[Seanzie]

Oh also I said last night I didn't smell like Kitty was doing some elaborate setup to mess with us.

If there's one thing I

do

smell a potential "set up" on, its Sean voting Galron -1, Galron almost immediately claiming, and Sean quickly voting back onto KT as his only immediate reaction. I do not like his reaction to Gamma's retort when he attempted to use the claim to call Galron town, and I feel like he's still pushing an angle where Kitty is scum and Galron is town, despite giving no good reasons to call Galron town.

Sean was never sold on Galron being scum (notably he pushed the Kitty/Galron S/T thought before this). and the -1 vote kinda comes out of nowhere.

I said last night I could conceivably see Town Kitty with Scum Galron. If that scenario is the case, I think Sean is scum.

I think this is a bit disingenuous. The only reason I've been talking about Kitty/Galron being s/t is because others (idr if it was you or someone else) were pushing the (imo incorrect) idea that Kitty/Galron are always s/s or t/t, so I was responding directly to that argument, not arguing Kitty/Galron being s/t is more likely than s/s, just that it is a possible world.

As for my vote, I was bored yesterday, so I wanted the day to end (I'm more used to 48/24 plurality elim games), and Galron seemed like a reasonable target. Their claim gave me pause though, so I moved back to whom I thought was a better elim. You're right I've given no good reasons to call Galron town, because I have no good reasons to do that - I have NOT argued that Galron must be town because I don't believe that, but saying Galron/Kitty cannot be t/s is BS, and I HAVE argued that.

[Seanzie]

Is Galron at E-2?

[Seanzie]

Yeah, okay.

VOTE: Galron

They are now at E-1.

[Seanzie]

Is Crescent someone who is usually fearkilled or something?

[Seanzie]

Is Crescent someone who is usually fearkilled or something?

VOTE: Seanzie

Well, hello to you too.

[Seanzie]

Is Crescent someone who is usually fearkilled or something?

I don’t think so, she’s not well-known to anyone here

Hmm... weird kill then. Probably indicative of bussing/deep wolf since they didn't kill on wagon, and while Crescent did scumread Galron, they weren't the hardest pusher, and honestly looking through their ISO, I could make a case that they were possibly w/w with Galron. Since they often kind of shaded Galron's wagon.

[Seanzie]

Crescent: I smell a setup in which Seanzie is scum if KT is town
*Crescent dies*
Seanzie: Hmm, maybe Crescent was fear killed?

Basically, Seanzie TMI’d about the nightkill in his first post of the day

If you're calling this TMI, I think maybe you don't know what fearkilling is. What I was asking is if Crescent has a strong enough reputation that they often get killed in the first few days of the game because scum is afraid to play against them.

Perhaps a better accusation you can make against me is that I could have been trying to get control of the narrative around a kill that I made because of Crescent's reads, but alas, that just isn't the world we live in.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Seanzie

Care to explain your vote?

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Eiralox

[Seanzie]

VOTE: eiralox

Why are you voting Eiralox?

[Seanzie]

I feel like UD genuinely believed her read there
Meanwhile I think someone like Seanzie is more sus for voting Galron and then immediately unvoting following the claim

Can you quote exactly which post you feel UD genuinely believes? Because looking at their ISO, I don't really get the feeling that you could call any of those posts overly genuine-feeling.

[Seanzie]

Kinda feels like GE's UDKG read was made up.

[Seanzie]

You wanna try and accuse me?

Pretty sure I already did accuse you. Are you ever going to quote the post that you felt was "genuine"?

[Seanzie]

Like this shouldn't be a hard thing that takes a long time. UDKG has only 7 posts.

[Seanzie]

Great school district

VOTE: crescent

wtf is the relevance of school district to anything in this game?

Actually, now that I'm looking at Gamma's ISO... this post... is quite oddly placed. I remembered seeing it originally and being like "why is Gamma quoting a weird post from the very beginning of the game?" but then, like magic, this post ends up being Galron's breadcrumb post. Chances Gamma just happens to drudge that post up literally a few posts after Galron's claim, so that Galron can "organically" point to their breadcrumb of their role and Gamma can back off Galron.

And they want to say I'm suspicious for unvoting Galron after their claim? Nah.

[Seanzie]

Actually let's start here.

Vote: UltimateDetectiveKiriGiri

.

why UD?

Crescent was wishywashy about the Galron wagon, but KiriGiri used her limited posts to try and stop the momentum on it.

I feel like UD genuinely believed her read there
Meanwhile I think someone like Seanzie is more sus for voting Galron and then immediately unvoting following the claim

Mala pretty blatantly sheeped Gamma and that's... Yeah I don't know Mala enough.

She's worth flipping D1 for stuff like that. She's not a bad Town player.

This is probably the post that sticks out the most for me. Calling Mala out like this is bound to backfire upon Galron’s scum flip. I think UD probably processes that and doesn’t make a post this brazen as scum.

Gamma believed "UD genuinely believed her read there", while talking specifically about her read on Galron. What post does Gamma give that felt genuine? A post from UD about Mala. Nah. Their read on UD was faked, and they can't back it up.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Seanzie]

And I fucking DARE you, try and construct a reason I’m scum with Galron that doesn’t get ripped to shreds in less than 5 minutes.

Nah, I'll just bury you on your own play.

[Seanzie]

Oh please. Why do I even put Galron in the hot seat in the first place if I’m scum with him? I would be in prime position to coach him to not be frozen, and instead I totally dumpster him! You wanna see how I interact with a scum buddy in that sort of scenario, go check out EFoBBiO where I had bugspray as my scum partner.

Funny how you don't actually respond to the insane "coincidence" that you brought Galron's breadcrumb up by "accident" right after they claim, and instead just try to "What would I do that as wolf?" me. I'm not going to engage with this sort of argument because there are unlimited reasons why wolves might act one way or another in different scenerios. Your play could easily be distancing that went overboard when Galron got heat from everyone, and then trying to back off them when they claimed, just to find town doesn't, so you give up and bus.

Also, the coaching you're suggesting, that rarely actually happens in scumchats IME.

[Seanzie]

Actually let's start here.

Vote: UltimateDetectiveKiriGiri

.

why UD?

Crescent was wishywashy about the Galron wagon, but KiriGiri used her limited posts to try and stop the momentum on it.

I feel like UD genuinely believed her read there
Meanwhile I think someone like Seanzie is more sus for voting Galron and then immediately unvoting following the claim

Mala pretty blatantly sheeped Gamma and that's... Yeah I don't know Mala enough.

She's worth flipping D1 for stuff like that. She's not a bad Town player.

This is probably the post that sticks out the most for me. Calling Mala out like this is bound to backfire upon Galron’s scum flip. I think UD probably processes that and doesn’t make a post this brazen as scum.

Gamma believed "UD genuinely believed her read there", while talking specifically about her read on Galron. What post does Gamma give that felt genuine? A post from UD about Mala. Nah. Their read on UD was faked, and they can't back it up.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Maybe if you had the ability to parse nuance you’d realize the point about Mala does relate to UD’s Galron read. By saying Mala is scum for her Galron push, that necessitates Galron!town! If Mala wanted, she could very much say “through Galron’s scumflip I have proven that I am GOOD town, so UD calling me bad town is a bad look”.
VOTE: Seanzie

OoOoOrrr.... you made up a read and got caught doing it and now are scrambing;)

[Seanzie]

And I fucking DARE you, try and construct a reason I’m scum with Galron that doesn’t get ripped to shreds in less than 5 minutes.

Nah, I'll just bury you on your own play.

Go ahead and try scumfuck, but Mini Normals lack multiball or Serial Killers, so any belief I’m scum has to reconcile the fact that I put Galron in the fucking ground.

Please don't swear at me, this is a game, and that sort of language is unsportsmanlike.

I'm just going to keep burying you based on your play. If you want to try to make a case that you couldn't be teamed with Galron, you can try to do that, and I'll read it. However, that onus is on you.

[Seanzie]

Oh please. Why do I even put Galron in the hot seat in the first place if I’m scum with him? I would be in prime position to coach him to not be frozen, and instead I totally dumpster him! You wanna see how I interact with a scum buddy in that sort of scenario, go check out EFoBBiO where I had bugspray as my scum partner.

Funny how you don't actually respond to the insane "coincidence" that you brought Galron's breadcrumb up by "accident" right after they claim, and instead just try to "What would I do that as wolf?" me. I'm not going to engage with this sort of argument because there are unlimited reasons why wolves might act one way or another in different scenerios. Your play could easily be distancing that went overboard when Galron got heat from everyone, and then trying to back off them when they claimed, just to find town doesn't, so you give up and bus.

Also, the coaching you're suggesting, that rarely actually happens in scumchats IME.

The “coincidence” you bring up never happens if I’m scum with Galron: instead I would have posted any critique in the scum PT. I was misyeeted once for this “coaching rarely happens” argument when it was a snap post by the flipped scum, so allow me to retort: there was AMPLE OPPORTUNITY to coach Galron, and he 100% WOULD HAVE LISTENED. I have dealt with enough dumbass scum mates that I would not abide Galron going off-the-rails. And before you try to spin this against me, my suspicion on Galron was WELL BEFORE I would have had room to conclude Galron had to be cut loose.

You're acting like "distancing" isn't a thing. Suspecting someone does not make it so they couldn't be w/w. What interactions did you have with Galron that you claim are non-w/w?

Your "coaching" argument holds no weight. "they wouldn't have played that way if I was a wolf with them" just isn't a valid argument, you can't control others and honestly, it just makes me feel like you tried to coach Galron, but they didn't listen to you as much as you wanted.

[Seanzie]

And I fucking DARE you, try and construct a reason I’m scum with Galron that doesn’t get ripped to shreds in less than 5 minutes.

Nah, I'll just bury you on your own play.

Go ahead and try scumfuck, but Mini Normals lack multiball or Serial Killers, so any belief I’m scum has to reconcile the fact that I put Galron in the fucking ground.

Please don't swear at me, this is a game, and that sort of language is unsportsmanlike.

I'm just going to keep burying you based on your play. If you want to try to make a case that you couldn't be teamed with Galron, you can try to do that, and I'll read it. However, that onus is on you.

I’ll swear as much as I fucking like, you little weasel! If you wanna seriously call me unsportsmanlike for calling you a “scum fuck” then that merely magnifies my confidence that you’re scum because that makes it apparent the problem part of that post isn’t that I’m calling you scum!

The comment about you swearing was more meant as an out-of-game post. I'm asking you human-to-human to not swear at me like that because it feels like you're personally attacking me when you swear at me. I don't know MS's specific forum rules, but most places I play, swearing AT someone like that is against the rules and so I'm just asking you to stop to allow everyone to enjoy the game without having profanities flung at them.

You can call me scum though, that is an in-game thing. You're wrong, and honestly this OMGUS push makes me feel like you're just a caught wolf, but calling me scum is an acceptable thing to do in terms of treating people with respect while playing mafia.

[Seanzie]

Is Crescent someone who is usually fearkilled or something?

VOTE: Seanzie

Well, hello to you too.

VOTE: Seanzie

Care to explain your vote?

This is quite defensive btw

Asking someone to explain a naked vote isn't defensive, try again wolfo.

[Seanzie]

Kinda feels like GE's UDKG read was made up.

If you demonstrate legitimate solving I’ll legitimately engage this but as of now, all it seems like you’re doing is trying your hardest to smear obvtown.

Nah, you already quoted the post you claimed was an "ever-so-genuine" read from UD about Galron, and it wasn't about Galron. You lied, and you've been caught. Sorry, try again next time.

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

As I called out before: this was never explained and comes across as an early-game distancing voted given the short-lived nature of it and aforementioned lack of reasoning.

It was actually explained once someone asked, thanks though;)

[Seanzie]

I wanna move my vote but also want Galron to actually do something before I do so

Who do you want to move to?

Do you expect Galron to act differently based on a single vote on them?

This feels like Seanzie was nervous at me voting his scummbuddy and wanted to try and draw me towards giving up that vote for another option

It's really helpful when you quote the posts that show you trying to move off Galron. Not gonna lie, still waiting for those heavy non-w/w interactions you had with Galron that you want me to clear you two as a team over. Is this one of them?

[Seanzie]

And I fucking DARE you, try and construct a reason I’m scum with Galron that doesn’t get ripped to shreds in less than 5 minutes.

Nah, I'll just bury you on your own play.

Go ahead and try scumfuck, but Mini Normals lack multiball or Serial Killers, so any belief I’m scum has to reconcile the fact that I put Galron in the fucking ground.

Please don't swear at me, this is a game, and that sort of language is unsportsmanlike.

I'm just going to keep burying you based on your play. If you want to try to make a case that you couldn't be teamed with Galron, you can try to do that, and I'll read it. However, that onus is on you.

I’ll swear as much as I fucking like, you little weasel! If you wanna seriously call me unsportsmanlike for calling you a “scum fuck” then that merely magnifies my confidence that you’re scum because that makes it apparent the problem part of that post isn’t that I’m calling you scum!

The comment about you swearing was more meant as an out-of-game post. I'm asking you human-to-human to not swear at me like that because it feels like you're personally attacking me when you swear at me. I don't know MS's specific forum rules, but most places I play, swearing AT someone like that is against the rules and so I'm just asking you to stop to allow everyone to enjoy the game without having profanities flung at them.

You can call me scum though, that is an in-game thing. You're wrong, and honestly this OMGUS push makes me feel like you're just a caught wolf, but calling me scum is an acceptable thing to do in terms of treating people with respect while playing mafia.

If you seriously consider my moderate swearing a personal attack then I’m scared for how you’ll handle other players. How old even are you?

This is the last post I am going to make about this. I kindly asked you from an out-of-game perspective to not swear at me. How you act after that is up to you.

[Seanzie]

Kinda feels like GE's UDKG read was made up.

If you demonstrate legitimate solving I’ll legitimately engage this but as of now, all it seems like you’re doing is trying your hardest to smear obvtown.

Nah, you already quoted the post you claimed was an "ever-so-genuine" read from UD about Galron, and it wasn't about Galron. You lied, and you've been caught. Sorry, try again next time.

I already explained why that post from UD related to Galron, so you continuing this line of bullshit indicates you a) are scum who didn’t need to actually process my logic in order to continue blaring how scummy you think I am, b) you deliberately chose to ignore it and instead tout your own arrogant incorrectness or c) you simply lack the reading skills to understand my elaborate thought process.

I did deliberately choose to ignore it because I think it is you trying to weasel your way out of a lie. I do not believe in any world that your post about UDKG's genuine-sounding take was the one you quoted. I have to do mental gymnastics to make that make sense, and IME when i have to do mental gymnastics after asking someone to quote one of 7 posts and them taking a long time to quote said post and giving a convoluted way to try to spin it to make sense with what they said, they're usually just a lying wolf.

[Seanzie]

I apologize for being rude after you asked me to stop swearing at you tho, I felt like a community that ruled swearing at someone being a personal attack was an oddity and felt like it would be more suitable for you to adjust to the harshness that most mafia games have. I still feel like it’s probably wise to realize most people probably won’t be very accommodating but I’ll try to lessen my edge in the meantime.

Thanks for this. I am not majorly offended by your one post, but IME sometimes when one person starts swearing at someone else, it can lead to other toxic things, and nipping it in the butt earlier is better than letting it go. I appreciate and accept your apology. No hard feelings, just trying to have fun playing a meaningless kids game with a bunch of adults online.

[Seanzie]

Does that mean you think Galron is town?

If so, why?

The wagon looks emotionally driven and the slot has attracted a lot of unwanted negative attention to itself.

Actually I do want this explained, what seemed “emotionally driven” about the Galron wagon?

This post seems genuine, it’s like Gamma went back and looked at UDKG’s ISO and gave it some more thought and this post stood out to him.

The issue I have with this is that this is when I asked Gamma to go quote what post they felt was genuine from UDKG, and instead of bringing back that post, they brought back this one, which felt a lot like Gamma COULDN'T make a case that one of the posts were particuarly genuine-feeling, so instead tryed to shift attention away from that by bringing this up, and only after me asking a second time for where the felt UDKG was being genuine did they THEN go back and find that other post. I feel like if I wouldn't have pressed them the second time, they would have let the whole "UDKG felt genuine" thing slip away since they didn't have a good explanation for it.

[Seanzie]

Does that mean you think Galron is town?

If so, why?

The wagon looks emotionally driven and the slot has attracted a lot of unwanted negative attention to itself.

Actually I do want this explained, what seemed “emotionally driven” about the Galron wagon?

This post seems genuine, it’s like Gamma went back and looked at UDKG’s ISO and gave it some more thought and this post stood out to him.

The issue I have with this is that this is when I asked Gamma to go quote what post they felt was genuine from UDKG, and instead of bringing back that post, they brought back this one, which felt a lot like Gamma COULDN'T make a case that one of the posts were particuarly genuine-feeling, so instead tryed to shift attention away from that by bringing this up, and only after me asking a second time for where the felt UDKG was being genuine did they THEN go back and find that other post. I feel like if I wouldn't have pressed them the second time, they would have let the whole "UDKG felt genuine" thing slip away since they didn't have a good explanation for it.

That’s fair. I am hesitant to scumread Gamma for this because I do agree with Gamma’s stated reasoning.

I quite frankly don't. UDKG putting sus on someone for sheeping someone else onto Galron does not in any way make me think UDKG genuinely thought Galron was town, and honestly the more I think about it, that should make UDKG MORE sus since that could be a Galron!partner trying to lightly chainsaw Mala.

[Seanzie]

I'm a little less confident about galron being scum after realizing he crumbed his role in his first post, idk if scum!Galron thinks to do that

Great school district

VOTE: crescent

wtf is the relevance of school district to anything in this game?

Actually, now that I'm looking at Gamma's ISO... this post... is quite oddly placed. I remembered seeing it originally and being like "why is Gamma quoting a weird post from the very beginning of the game?" but then, like magic, this post ends up being Galron's breadcrumb post. Chances Gamma just happens to drudge that post up literally a few posts after Galron's claim, so that Galron can "organically" point to their breadcrumb of their role and Gamma can back off Galron.

And they want to say I'm suspicious for unvoting Galron after their claim? Nah.

Hold the phone you might be on to something here

How about no?
Seanzie’s presentation of that is incredibly disingenuous. I thought that was a post I made a while before the claim but it was actually right after.. If it was a while back I’d understand the thought process that it was setting up Galron’s claim for later, but in proper context it feels like it should be obvious that was my genuine take on what looked like something outlandish. And claiming I was aiming to back off Galron grossly misrepresents my actual movement there, which is to say it suggests there was any movement at all! I didn’t unvote Galron while I was questioning his crumbing tendency as scum, and I in fact doubled down on pushing Galron using meta!

Do not fall for Seanzie’s shallow lies.

This was your post after Galron mentioned the crumb, clearing you're setup to back off here if the wind goes that way.

I'm a little less confident about galron being scum after realizing he crumbed his role in his first post, idk if scum!Galron thinks to do that

Granted when looking for this post, I did see that you actually responded to UDKG's post there saying she was preflipping Galron town, which does actually kind of give me pause on the whole "genuine" thing. I'll think on it.

[Seanzie]

Lots of naked votes today.

VOTE: KittyTacky

[Seanzie]

Sheeping Gamma Emerald. I agree with her points.
VOTE: Seanzie

Which ones exactly? Elaborate please.

[Seanzie]

After thinking more on Gamma, I kind of feel similarly to something Schadd said in that Gamma's steadfast assertion that they should be obvtown does more often come from town than scum. In the moment, some of these arguments scumpinged me because I don't think Gamma's assertions that they should be clear town are actually convincing, but I get that feeling sometimes where I'm like "I am fookin' towning it up right now, and if you know what to look for, I should be obvious". I don't know what to look for, so it isn't obvious, but that thought process is towny. I do want to hear their answer's to Schadd regarding that post I quoted (because if that was actually Gamma/Galron t/s, that was like some crazy timing for bringing an RVS vote weird post up that was super relevant to Galron's claim when Gamma did).

In other news, T3 is pretty much a weathervane flame fanner throughout the entire Seanzie/Gamma spat in a way that pings me badly. I felt pretty good about them D1, but I also know they are just super different than any time I've seen them before, and so idk if they can create good content while tryharding wolf since I've never seen them tryhard as either alignment.

[Seanzie]

oh yeah as long as we're here do you remember, like, why you made post 514

Galron claimed he gave content in his first post, I questioned it

I know my most recent post was a bit after this, but I didnt see this before that, and I don't do the PEDIT thing or whatever it is y'all do here.

I'm actually pretty satisfied by this response. Carry on.

[Seanzie]

Here’s the thing, Crescent dying imo suggests scum somehow still think I’m mislimmable. I fully expected to die Night 1, it’s not that rare for me these days! So Seanzie pushing against me here is a MASSIVE RED FLAG!
And like, I expect people to actually be able to use critical thinking to solve me. I specifically pushed out Galron as a litmus test for whether I had honed in on the tells another player had used to make an early call on a prior game scumbuddy of mine. If I was bussing, I don’t NEED to litmus test ANYTHING, I already KNOW Galron’s alignment!

Great school district

VOTE: crescent

wtf is the relevance of school district to anything in this game?

Actually, now that I'm looking at Gamma's ISO... this post... is quite oddly placed. I remembered seeing it originally and being like "why is Gamma quoting a weird post from the very beginning of the game?" but then, like magic, this post ends up being Galron's breadcrumb post. Chances Gamma just happens to drudge that post up literally a few posts after Galron's claim, so that Galron can "organically" point to their breadcrumb of their role and Gamma can back off Galron.

And they want to say I'm suspicious for unvoting Galron after their claim? Nah.

Hold the phone you might be on to something here

How about no?
Seanzie’s presentation of that is incredibly disingenuous. I thought that was a post I made a while before the claim but it was actually right after.. If it was a while back I’d understand the thought process that it was setting up Galron’s claim for later, but in proper context it feels like it should be obvious that was my genuine take on what looked like something outlandish. And claiming I was aiming to back off Galron grossly misrepresents my actual movement there, which is to say it suggests there was any movement at all! I didn’t unvote Galron while I was questioning his crumbing tendency as scum, and I in fact doubled down on pushing Galron using meta!

Do not fall for Seanzie’s shallow lies.

I'm also sus of people accusing me of bussing. But you first.

I'm assuming this is in response to my question. Explain these points in your own words, please. What makes me sus? You can reiterate Gamma's arguments, but I want to hear YOUR takes on Gamma's arguments.

[Seanzie]

Actually, don't carry on quite yet.

Great school district

VOTE: crescent

wtf is the relevance of school district to anything in this game?

Actually, now that I'm looking at Gamma's ISO... this post... is quite oddly placed. I remembered seeing it originally and being like "why is Gamma quoting a weird post from the very beginning of the game?" but then, like magic, this post ends up being Galron's breadcrumb post. Chances Gamma just happens to drudge that post up literally a few posts after Galron's claim, so that Galron can "organically" point to their breadcrumb of their role and Gamma can back off Galron.

And they want to say I'm suspicious for unvoting Galron after their claim? Nah.

Hold the phone you might be on to something here

How about no?
Seanzie’s presentation of that is incredibly disingenuous. I thought that was a post I made a while before the claim but it was actually right after.. If it was a while back I’d understand the thought process that it was setting up Galron’s claim for later, but in proper context it feels like it should be obvious that was my genuine take on what looked like something outlandish. And claiming I was aiming to back off Galron grossly misrepresents my actual movement there, which is to say it suggests there was any movement at all! I didn’t unvote Galron while I was questioning his crumbing tendency as scum, and I in fact doubled down on pushing Galron using meta!

Do not fall for Seanzie’s shallow lies.

Here you claim you thought that you quoting Galron's first post was a while before the claim, but the post where they said "I added content to my first post" or whatever was the post the claimed in, so how does this make sense, you not knowing that the post you looked into their ISO for, leading you to quote their first post, was specifically their claim post?

[Seanzie]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

As I called out before: this was never explained and comes across as an early-game distancing voted given the short-lived nature of it and aforementioned lack of reasoning.

It was actually explained once someone asked, thanks though;)

Where was this btw

I forgot to respond to this earlier, so responding now. It ends up that YOU'RE the one who already asked me to explain this:

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

you made a non-RVS galron vote here but dropped it to vote red before explaining.Why did you vote Galron here?

Their "oh Shodd's here" post looked like it could be trying to create a bad teammate interaction. Nothing strong, but latching onto weak things early on gets the game going.

[Seanzie]

Idk what you’re trying to say here

"I thought that was a post I made a while before the claim" is you saying you thought you had quoted Galron's first post a while before they had claimed, at least as far as I can tell.

You then say to Schadd that you quoted that post specifically because Galron mentioned content in their first post.

Galron mentioned content in their first post in the same post that they claimed.

How could you think that you quoted Galron's first post a while before Galron claimed when Galron's claim-post is the post that you are saying led you to quote Galron's first post? Like being a little forgetful about something is okay, but that's kind of a weird "Oh let me look into Galron's ISO because of their claim, but let me forget that this was about their claim" moment.

[Seanzie]

In other news, T3 is pretty much a weathervane flame fanner throughout the entire Seanzie/Gamma spat in a way that pings me badly. I felt pretty good about them D1, but I also know they are just super different than any time I've seen them before, and so idk if they can create good content while tryharding wolf since I've never seen them tryhard as either alignment.

the same T3 who hammered Galron after you put them at e-1?

soooooo,,,,,,,,,,,,,, wow ok.

There are plenty of reasonable arguments one could make for town!T3, but their hammer vote really isn't one. Anyone could tell Galron was pretty much a guaranteed elim, and if T3 wouldn't have hammered, I'm fairly certain someone else would have. Sooo.... wow ok.

[Seanzie]

Idk what you’re trying to say here

"I thought that was a post I made a while before the claim" is you saying you thought you had quoted Galron's first post a while before they had claimed, at least as far as I can tell.

You then say to Schadd that you quoted that post specifically because Galron mentioned content in their first post.

Galron mentioned content in their first post in the same post that they claimed.

How could you think that you quoted Galron's first post a while before Galron claimed when Galron's claim-post is the post that you are saying led you to quote Galron's first post? Like being a little forgetful about something is okay, but that's kind of a weird "Oh let me look into Galron's ISO because of their claim, but let me forget that this was about their claim" moment.

Okay, when I said I thought it came a while back, it was because when you quoted it I thought based on your accusation that it was earlier in the day than right around the time of the claim, as that would’ve facilitated a process of me noting a nothingburger post and deciding to let Galron incorporate it as a crumb, which seemed to be your argument. But upon actually checking the post in question I realized it was not that way, so your argument felt like it lacked legs.

Hmm... okay. I think I'm back to being satisfied by your responses. Carry on.

[Seanzie]

Here’s the thing, Crescent dying imo suggests scum somehow still think I’m mislimmable. I fully expected to die Night 1, it’s not that rare for me these days! So Seanzie pushing against me here is a MASSIVE RED FLAG!
And like, I expect people to actually be able to use critical thinking to solve me. I specifically pushed out Galron as a litmus test for whether I had honed in on the tells another player had used to make an early call on a prior game scumbuddy of mine. If I was bussing, I don’t NEED to litmus test ANYTHING, I already KNOW Galron’s alignment!

Great school district

VOTE: crescent

wtf is the relevance of school district to anything in this game?

Actually, now that I'm looking at Gamma's ISO... this post... is quite oddly placed. I remembered seeing it originally and being like "why is Gamma quoting a weird post from the very beginning of the game?" but then, like magic, this post ends up being Galron's breadcrumb post. Chances Gamma just happens to drudge that post up literally a few posts after Galron's claim, so that Galron can "organically" point to their breadcrumb of their role and Gamma can back off Galron.

And they want to say I'm suspicious for unvoting Galron after their claim? Nah.

Hold the phone you might be on to something here

How about no?
Seanzie’s presentation of that is incredibly disingenuous. I thought that was a post I made a while before the claim but it was actually right after.. If it was a while back I’d understand the thought process that it was setting up Galron’s claim for later, but in proper context it feels like it should be obvious that was my genuine take on what looked like something outlandish. And claiming I was aiming to back off Galron grossly misrepresents my actual movement there, which is to say it suggests there was any movement at all! I didn’t unvote Galron while I was questioning his crumbing tendency as scum, and I in fact doubled down on pushing Galron using meta!

Do not fall for Seanzie’s shallow lies.

I'm also sus of people accusing me of bussing. But you first.

I'm assuming this is in response to my question. Explain these points in your own words, please. What makes me sus? You can reiterate Gamma's arguments, but I want to hear YOUR takes on Gamma's arguments.

My take is that I basically got mindmelded with Gamma. Her posts were basically what I wanted to say to case you and I see no point in reiterating them.

Oooorrr... your a wolf trying to borrow a case from a townie, and are scared to try to hash out your own takes on those events because everyone will see right through it. One or the other;)

[Seanzie]

@Eiralox when do you become a badger? I seem to be your sole focus today, but I sure don't feel badgered.

[Seanzie]

@Eiralox when do you become a badger? I seem to be your sole focus today, but I sure don't feel badgered.

once some1 pushes me for bullshit reasons bby

And if no one pushes you, you're just going to slank all game doing nothing?

[Seanzie]

Eiralox's behavior today (and honestly yesterday too) has kind of felt like they're trying to fake a "I'm town and I don't give a crap" type vibe, but even though their words suggest this vibe, the feeling I get while reading their post is much more worried than they should be if this was genuine. I still think KT is pretty wolfy though, and kind of doubt KT/Eiralox is s/s due to their similarish treatment of me in the me/Gamma spat earlier, and all three things can't happen at once, so I'm clearly wrong somewhere.

[Seanzie]

I kind of wanted to put Eiralox at e-1, but with the rep in, it is probably better to wait to hear from them.

[Seanzie]

I kind of wanted to put Eiralox at e-1, but with the rep in, it is probably better to wait to hear from them.

theres still a week left cool ur jets bub. btw i think, if theres scum on me rn, it's 1 at most. i'm halfway thru day 1, ill post when i post. and seanzie..... *sigh*

You can "post when you post", but expecting the rest of us to sit idly by and wait a week for you to do... anything... is pretty meh.

[Seanzie]

I kind of wanted to put Eiralox at e-1, but with the rep in, it is probably better to wait to hear from them.

theres still a week left cool ur jets bub. btw i think, if theres scum on me rn, it's 1 at most. i'm halfway thru day 1, ill post when i post. and seanzie..... *sigh*

You can "post when you post", but expecting the rest of us to sit idly by and wait a week for you to do... anything... is pretty meh.

well arent u trying to be scummy? if ur town and you put me at e-1 and someone hammers imma laugh btw, so i repeat: cool ur jets. There are only two worthy votes on me: T3 and Schadd_ . Both have valid reasons and I townread them for it. So i'm looking in KiriGiri/redcardinal slots for at least 1 scum at this point.

so don't say i didnt warn u seanzie, if ur town: ur hiding on the Galron elim high now. If ur scum, and I can make some interesting arguments towards that effect, well youd really like to put me at -1 and let town hammer. either way ur not feeling 2 swell 2 me rn.

So, me potentially voting you is somehow scummy? Nah.

If you can make interesting arguments on me, do it. Go all badgery. I ordered badger but the waitstaff brought me hailbut instead. You've tried to act like you're just non-chalant non-caring town, but you're clearly worried about the game, so why the facade?

I've already said I'm giving the new slot some time to get into the game before I think about voting you, so you continuing to try to push me not to vote just solidifies my read on you.

[Seanzie]

still waiting for the kitty iso thoughts you promsied

.........................
cardinal, ull have to wait. my job description isnt fuilltime forum rat. if uvce read above, i said im halfway thru d1. push me on what i've done instead of what im yet to do and i wont be so acerbic. cos rn u and giri, and seanzie, got no real cases on me. thats what i want, thats what i expect from town: valid reasons.

schadd_'s analysis of me is 80% tru excepting them tunneling me as wolf, so im ok with that vote, u tho.... if kitty isnt scum, ur hunting for a convenient wagon. but rn i lean town on u way more then the kirigir slot, so ill like to hear from replace regarding various things.

"push me on what I've done"... you haven't done much of anything, and what you HAVE done is deliberately refuse to make yourself findable through giving soild readable content. You can say that is what you "haven't" done, but it is two sides of the same coin.

[Seanzie]

First four pages and my main takeaway is that Seanzie is obvtown

Why? This is very rarely a reaction someone who doesn't know me has.

[Seanzie]

First four pages and my main takeaway is that Seanzie is obvtown

Why? This is very rarely a reaction someone who doesn't know me has.

I don't get the sense that you are trying to achieve anything that scum wants to achieve in your early posting. Specifically I get no indication that you earnestly want to convince me you're town, and I believe your actions are attempts at finding scum.

Can you quote what is giving you these impressions with explanations please?

[Seanzie]

Eh, actually it is probably better for you to just focus on catching up, but if you have time, do that.

[Seanzie]

yeah im tired i didnt get to what i said ill do. i got some time off tommorow. so i wont disappoint(i hope XD)

@Klick u got commentary on some1 else then seanzie? cos ur vote's sorta still on me i think.

g'night ya'll

Somebody give me a doublevote please

[Seanzie]

your single vote isn't on eira right now lol

Yeah, but I don't want to let someone else hammer Eira, I want to do it in the moment in response to that post.

I also don't actually want the day to end right this second (I'd like Klick to catch up and give as much content as they can), so my post was more about lamenting how I feel about Eira's continual stalling than actually calling for a quick dayend.

[Seanzie]

Thinking about the Crescent kill more I think it implicates Eiralox somewhat
Seanzie brought up the fearkill idea and I wrote it off but Eiralox would maybe have reason to do so
It depends on how much of a force Crescent was in mini 2273

On skimming Crescent's ISO in mini 2273 Eiralox fearkilling her feels like a very probable occurence
I'd vote eiralox but I believe he's at E-2 with threat of a hammer from someone else so instead I'll

intent to E-1 Eiralox

.

That someone else is probably me. I am not likely to vote there until I feel Klick has had some time to settle in (or I get bored and antsy, whichever comes first).

[Seanzie]

barely read today but definitely dont hammer until we have a plan for who kt blocks in case eiralox flips red

Not worried about if Eira flips green?

[Seanzie]

well i am in fact. but i think there's no plans that need to be made in that case

I take your comments to suggest that you understand that a town RB with one scum is essentially a cop. In that case, assuming we flip scum!Eiralox today, is there much point to strategizing? Like I'm not saying it is bad, per-say, but how do you see nightfall going?

[Seanzie]

hmm...

[Seanzie]

This Schadd push is interesting. I don't hate it, but I do worry that players like KT/Eira being unresolved will cause issues down the line, but I suppose if Eira can keep up what they've been doing, they can get out of that "hard to read, low content, PoE" area, and also a Schadd scum flip would probably look good for Eira since Schadd has kept a sustained push on them pretty much all game (I'd have to look closely to make sure it isn't just continual distancing, but at least from a superficial level it feels like wolf!Schadd would townspew Eira.

Hopefully town roleblocker will just resolve themself, or minimally now that KT doesn't have a reason to "act scummy" or however they put it anymore, I will be able to find them if they are town.

[Seanzie]

Somebody flip. Day's too long. Attention span depleted.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Eiralox

[Seanzie]

Voting red in this situation is a bad idea. We should have elimmed between KT and Eira like five days ago, and y'all are suffering from day-too-long syndrome. Second and triple guessing everything without new info leads to horrible decisions where you investigate low-probability worlds simply since you've already spent four days thinking about the higher probability worlds.

This day needs to end, and it should end with KT or Eira IMO.

[Seanzie]

Someone please just hammer Eira.

[Seanzie]

Enchant, please hammer.

I can't guarantee Eira is scum, but they were playing horribly up until it was clear they were about to die if they didn't do anything, and their claim is dubious at best, and honestly if there isn't at least one scum between Eira and KT, I'll eat my socks.

[Seanzie]

So clearly I need to re-evaluate this game pretty hard. Sorry Eira.

[Seanzie]

Before anything happens we need to know who KT blocked.

This could be agenda.

[Seanzie]

Before anything happens we need to know who KT blocked.

This could be agenda.

That just seems like common sense?

I mean, discouraging discussion prior to KT's claim doesn't make sense to me. If they meant that we shouldn't hammer anyone beforehand, then like, yes? But also that goes without saying. Especially since a town roleblocker can't actually clear with two scum alive, while it is info that should be shared, it isn't info worth waiting in anticipation for.

[Seanzie]

wait just a second didn't eiralox also cop schadd n1?
wait I think I have a game solve here VOTE: Klick

What is the solve?

[Seanzie]

Alright I'm all caught up

Here's where I'm currently at on people individually:

TOWN
Klick
Seanzie
Malakittens
T3

???
Enchant
KittyTacky
schadd_
Haschel

Likely Scum
redcardinal

I feel slightly worse about Haschel than I do about the other null players. However, the theory currently running around in my head is redcardinal/schadd_:

Votecount 2.7

Eiralox (3)

- schadd_, Klick, T3

Klick (2)

- Haschel Cedricson, redcardinal

schadd_ (2)

- Gamma Emerald, Malakittens

KittyTacky (1)

- Seanzie

redcardinal (1)

- Enchant

Not Voting (2)

- Eiralox, KittyTacky

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to decide an elimination. Deadline is in (expired on 2022-08-08 12:11:33).

Mod notes

Please let me know if you notice any errors!

redcardinal's push on my slot came as the Eiralox wagon picked up steam, and the way rc pushed the vote on me felt motivated. I feel like pushing me at the time rc did is pretty poor optically, unless she's trying to achieve something. And the something I think she was trying to achieve was pulling potential pressure away from a schadd_ wagon.

I can expand more on this later but work now.
VOTE: redcardinal

So from what I can tell, you have me pretty much as a town!lock. Being in this coveted position, I'd like to ask you to do me a favor. Would you be willing to attempt to towncase RedCardinal? You've been scumreading them pretty much without wavering since you got into the thread, and I think they're town. In order to help me read you, I'd like to see if you can consider the flipside of Red's posts.

I'm not asking you to necessarily change your read on Red, but just like... go through their ISO and try to see if you can give any evidence for town!Red here (even if you think the evidence for scum!Red outweighs the evidence for town!Red).

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Klick

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Klick

Is this because of redcardinal’s solve?

That, something else, and to pressure them to answer my question.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Klick

Is this because of redcardinal’s solve?

That, something else, and to pressure them to answer my question.

Err... request. I'd guess it is more of a request than a question.

[Seanzie]

What is that something else? Also, Klick hasn’t posted since you requested he towncase redcardinal?

I'd rather wait to hear from Klick before I answer that.

True, but I got bored waiting, so I voted them to pressure them to answer sooner. Is this actually going to make them answer faster? perhaps, perhaps not. Did I want to do it anyways? yes.

[Seanzie]

Enchant is just someone random in my PoE

I think the way Enchant hammered yesterday would have been hard for a wolf to do. Not just the hammer, but like I believe the hesitation, and not feeling good about trusting me who was asking them to do it, and just the feelz of them in that moment.

[Seanzie]

UNVOTE: Enchant
My reads are barely changing. There’s a part of me that just wants to vote redcardinal despite my townread on her just to see where that gets me. At the same time, my only actual scumread is KT, a claimed PR.

Out of the people who aren't you, me, RC, KT and Enchant, who do you think is towniest, and who scummiest? Preferably with reasons, but names would suffice here.

[Seanzie]

So from what I can tell, you have me pretty much as a town!lock. Being in this coveted position, I'd like to ask you to do me a favor. Would you be willing to attempt to towncase RedCardinal? You've been scumreading them pretty much without wavering since you got into the thread, and I think they're town. In order to help me read you, I'd like to see if you can consider the flipside of Red's posts.

I'm not asking you to necessarily change your read on Red, but just like... go through their ISO and try to see if you can give any evidence for town!Red here (even if you think the evidence for scum!Red outweighs the evidence for town!Red).

The problem here is that with the way I solve, I have a lot of trouble giving thoughts on people that aren't genuinely what I believe. I find many of the things commonly used to townread and scumread people just... wrong, or not an accurate way of solving. I could try to intentionally towncase redcardinal, but it wouldn't be genuine.

What will probably be more useful is if I read redcardinal's ISO and see if that changes anything?

Hmm... okay. Could you possibly quote a recent scum game or two of yours? Feel free to throw a town game in as well if you want.

[Seanzie]

1. I don't understand, why would RC question such a thing when it can't happen?
2. Sheeping someone is opportunism, k.

Re: schadd_
Yeah I thought RC was pretty scummy during the night but now I don't think so. The Klick case made sense to me.

you went from townreading her by the end of day 2, to scumreading her overnight, then landing on a case she made day 3 and circling back to townreading her. is there anything else you can point to that explains these changes

These are not the scum you're looking for.

Out of Mala/Klick/Haschel, who do you think is most likely scum and who is most likely town?

[Seanzie]

What doesn’t sit right is KT sheeting redcardinal

What does "sheeting" mean?

[Seanzie]

Like if schadd is on a scumteam he's not really unlikely to be the one submitting a kill

Actually I suppose schadd isn't that likely to be scum with someone like Enchant/Mala/myself due to that block? Because he'd likely submit a kill in those combinations

PEdit: can in a bit, putting kids to bed

I don't really agree with this read. Schadd was 1. more active/more on people's minds, and 2. better placed, than any of those other slots, so I think all else held equal Schadd would be less likely to carry the kill in fear of things like watcher (don't want your deepwolf going down because they submitted a kill) and because PRs tend to target their strongest scumread, which often is someone who is active enough to actually be scrutinized.

However, I do give the conclusion weight for a different reason; Schadd being vanilla AND not submitting the kill makes them on the lower-probability side of possible scum, unless of course both remaining scum are vanilla, but I kind of doubt that's the case.

[Seanzie]

Like if schadd is on a scumteam he's not really unlikely to be the one submitting a kill

Actually I suppose schadd isn't that likely to be scum with someone like Enchant/Mala/myself due to that block? Because he'd likely submit a kill in those combinations

PEdit: can in a bit, putting kids to bed

I don't really agree with this read. Schadd was 1. more active/more on people's minds, and 2. better placed, than any of those other slots, so I think all else held equal Schadd would be less likely to carry the kill in fear of things like watcher (don't want your deepwolf going down because they submitted a kill) and because PRs tend to target their strongest scumread, which often is someone who is active enough to actually be scrutinized.

However, I do give the conclusion weight for a different reason; Schadd being vanilla AND not submitting the kill makes them on the lower-probability side of possible scum, unless of course both remaining scum are vanilla, but I kind of doubt that's the case.

I suppose it's a 'minimise risk of getting targeted' vs 'minimise damage if you are targeted' thing. I feel like scum are more likely to try to do the former in this situation, especially with one scum already down

I personally play differently (in most situations where I have a low-poster scum in my scumchat I ask them to submit the kill since I usually don't play to sweep/win by a ton, but to win, and so I always try to keep someone who can carry in the best position possible, and low-posters usually cannot carry as they get PoE'd too easily), but sure, I can see why others might make another choice there. My point is that it definitely isn't something I'd clear those teams off of.

[Seanzie]

Gamma implied that Seanzie was purposely trying to seem obvtown. But Seanzie reads town to me specifically because he doesn't feel like he's trying to get townread.

I think Gamma was trying to say there that I was trying to make obvtown!Gamma look bad (smear as in to tarnish the reputation of someone via false acusations), not that I was trying to look obvtown.

[Seanzie]

Why?

KT not offering any content today other than this and defending himself

What doesn’t sit right is KT sheeting redcardinal

What does "sheeting" mean?

Sheeping, autocorrect.

I just don't have much to say?

But there’s stuff that’s happened today.

But KT is town.

[Seanzie]

But KT is town.

i guess we don't get to like know why

[Seanzie]

as i said there's no way in the world you'd investigate a claimed pr. ok i guess there is a way in the world. maybe its something else. ok what ever

I feel like if I brush off the glitter that was hastily poured over this post, what would be revealed is you being pissed that the PR in a bad spot that you thought you could miselim is no longer a viable miselim.

[Seanzie]

do you mean like i'm scum trying to express to you that i'm upset you got a result but then obscuring with little clues it like a little criminal mastermind

No. I'm accusing you of being scum that is upset and whose true feelings came through in that post even if you did not intend them to.

[Seanzie]

do you mean like i'm scum trying to express to you that i'm upset you got a result but then obscuring with little clues it like a little criminal mastermind

No. I'm accusing you of being scum that is upset and whose true feelings came through in that post even if you did not intend them to.

ok. um, i don't think that really happens like that. idk what to tell you i guess

It happens all the time, and picking up on wolves inintended emotions is one of the best ways I make reads. I am not 100% sure if that is exacrly what happened here, and the whole rolecop/roleblock thing d1 looks good for you, so I am hesitant, but that post definitely could be gilded wolf frustration.

[Seanzie]

Well, I'm pretry sure {Schadd, Haschel, Klick, Mala} is a game winning PoE.

[Seanzie]

Klick is at E-1 btw.

[Seanzie]

I felt very good about Enchant's hammer on Eria, and honestly they just vibe well IMO. They are by far the closest to my PoE line though out of those that are not in it.

[Seanzie]

schadd/hasche do kinda be circling like sharks though.

I'm honestly getting worse vibes from Haschel here, but that might be because Schadd is playing pro-town (which doesn't necessarily mean they ARE town)

[Seanzie]

I'm gonna claim as well. I am a Non-Consecutive Night Doctor. I am not going to reveal if I used my power last night or not so the scum will have to choose between either killing me or taking a shot at taking out the cop.

Is a Nonconsecutive Doc, Rolecop, Roleblocker, and Regular Cop too much for a Normal Game? To be honest I have no idea these days since this is my first game in a long time. But either KittyTacky and Seanzie are partners, in which case one false move sinks both of them, or they are telling the truth and we can start doing some PoE stuff with me removed from the pool as well.

Is that your exact role?

[Seanzie]

Nvm, it's fine. I thought the word "night" was a weird addition here but "non-consectutive night" is a single modifier.

[Seanzie]

Well, I will say Schadd is only scum if Haschel is as well.

[Seanzie]

I'm gonna claim as well. I am a Non-Consecutive Night Doctor. I am not going to reveal if I used my power last night or not so the scum will have to choose between either killing me or taking a shot at taking out the cop.

Is a Nonconsecutive Doc, Rolecop, Roleblocker, and Regular Cop too much for a Normal Game? To be honest I have no idea these days since this is my first game in a long time. But either KittyTacky and Seanzie are partners, in which case one false move sinks both of them, or they are telling the truth and we can start doing some PoE stuff with me removed from the pool as well.

Did Crescents kill make sense to you?

[Seanzie]

Hmm... no, it didn't make sense to you.

I think Haschel is lying.

[Seanzie]

If Haschel was doc, they would have seen Galron's flip and worried that mafia was aware of their presence, and so would expect a doc dodge kill.

The Crescent kill is an odd one, tbh; I was expecting to start pressuring her based on the Galron flip and I assume redcardinal was going to do the same,

The Crescent kill is an odd one, tbh; I was expecting to start pressuring her based on the Galron flip and I assume redcardinal was going to do the same,

The Crescent kill is an odd one, tbh; I was expecting to start pressuring her based on the Galron flip and I assume redcardinal was going to do the same,

This wording feels awkward tbh
Wdym you EXPECTED to start pressuring her? Either you were going to or were not going to, why the need to qualify it?

I expected the day to start with somebody else dead and I clicked into this thread ready to go, and then it turned out I wouldn't be doing that after all because she was dead. My expectations were subverted.

This does not look like someone who was expecting a doc dodge kill.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Haschel

[Seanzie]

I do not know what a doc dodge kill is. If you are saying I would have guessed that Galron would have known a doc was in the game and therefore targeted somebody else then no, I would not have guessed that.

You expected scum to make a specific kill. If scum was informed there was a doc, they would likely not kill the most obvious choice. You should have had reason to think scum could have been aware of a doc, so expecting a specific kill makes no sense.

[Seanzie]

Okay? But Galron can be informed of anything. There’s nothing saying that Galron was informed that there is a non consecutive night doctor, he could have just as easily be informed that there’s a Town Rolecop, or that there is a Town Roleblocker (assuming KT isn’t lying).

Sure, but if you're a PR and a mafia flips informed, you're going to think that it is at least possible that mafia knows of your existance.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Seanzie

What if Galron

was

informed that there is non consecutive night doctor and Seanzie is his partner TMI’ing it.

Try again.

[Seanzie]

Actually not 99% cleared. Theoretically there can be only 3 pr’s, I’ve modded games with 3 scum and 3 pr’s. But I almost always see 4 PRs in 13 player mini normals.

By 4 PRs are you talking specifically 4 town PRs? That is good info to have. I thought rolecop, rb and me were already kind of a lot and am expecting some reasonable compensation (beyond informed) for scum, and honestly kind of doubted Eira and KT yesterday simply because them both existing with me seemed kind of unlikely, but maybe I am underestimating the power normally at town's disposal in normals here.

[Seanzie]

if klick is scum block mala, if klick is town block one of schadd/haschel but don't tell us which

if you give kitty a pool of two people, unless thats literally the team they just have the person not on the list do the kill

If Klick is scum, block Mala. If not, block whomever since with two scum left you don't clear anyone so it isn't as important.

[Seanzie]

Eh, I kind of want to say it is just Klick/Mala, but that feels too easy.

T3 seems pretry pure on play, but also different than I've ever seen them before.

Schadd is pro-town but vibes empty. I'm having a hard time putting them too high because of that (honestly there is a scary accurate general tell that a few of my friends make sometimes called the "vibe tell" which they are failing IMO but I'm not great at the vibe tell so I don't just want to jump at that), but coupled with the vanilla/RB info it just really doesn't make sense for them to not have carried the kill N1 so meh.

I guess Enchant should be looked at more. I kind of forgot about them until just now.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: klick

VOTE: Klick

Uhh...

[Seanzie]

double naked vote hammer? wtf.

Mala, Enchant, both of you please explain your thoughts right now.

[Seanzie]

double naked vote hammer? wtf.

Mala, Enchant, both of you please explain your thoughts right now.

not a hammer

Oh, I forgot that I moved.

[Seanzie]

Great now I have to decide if I'm going to hammer...

[Seanzie]

I also claim intent.

[Seanzie]

Makes no sense with not wanting to claim.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: KittyTacky

I am vouching for KT. You never kill KT before me.

[Seanzie]

I will give Haschel a few minutes to get home in case they want to say anything, but then I'm going to hammer Klick.

[Seanzie]

Klick, if you have a legacy, please leave it now.

[Seanzie]

eh, I'm getting impaitent/antsy waiting for Haschel

[Seanzie]

Patience isn't my strong suit...

VOTE: Klick

[Seanzie]

If I had to go into auto right now,
I would go

Enchant-> Haschel-> T3.

This should win in all situations except if Mala is a strongarm or scum has a vig (so we don't actually have a PoE of 3).

I could switch the order of T3 and Haschel as while I've felt good about T3 most of the game, I re-read D3 and honestly T3 did not look good, a lot of bad takes on Klick, definite w/w potential there, and it also reminded me of when me and Gamma were going at it how T3 felt like a flame-fanner.

[Seanzie]

I wasn’t a flame fanned when I was talking about the you/Gamma interaction, I had valid reasons to townread and scumread both of you and was trying to reconcile them in order to solve.

There's a reason you're not the first in my ordered PoE. I'm not denying that your behavior there couldn't be from town, but it definitely could be from scum.

Anyways, you said that Klick's read on me felt genuine. I disagree. Can you explain your take a bit more?

[Seanzie]

gonna have to disagree with seanzie here my poe is enchant -> hasche -> mala

I would go Enchant -> mala -> I guess RC or T3? -> Seanzie is pulling some insane gambit.

Speaking of Seanzie, at this point I assume he has other results to report?

I don't have a redcheck unfortunately.

I'd like to wait and see where everyone's head is at before I do a full reveal. I will though before EoD today (unless y'all quickhammer, so... don't do that)

[Seanzie]

enchant -> t3 -> redcard for me. gently going to assume that there aren't any PRs left, in which case any level of strongman would be extremely weird in this setup (half of the town power comes as protection . . .) so i would really like mala to never enter the poe.

You don't think they could put an X-shot strongarm to counter RB and doc?

[Seanzie]

can i guess what your role is before you do your reveal :^)

Sure, but I'd rather you guess after everyone's checked in, given initial thoughts.

[Seanzie]

Oh this probably goes without saying but I'm not going to say if I protected anybody last night or not.

I mean, I am assuming you distinctly did NOT protect KT, and if you did, you definitely should say so.

[Seanzie]

enchant -> t3 -> redcard for me. gently going to assume that there aren't any PRs left, in which case any level of strongman would be extremely weird in this setup (half of the town power comes as protection . . .) so i would really like mala to never enter the poe.

You don't think they could put an X-shot strongarm to counter RB and doc?

in that world i would judge the town to be too weak i think. you're probably used to a lower standard for town than is the case on here

Yeah, in terms of balancing, I would expect scum to have a pretty strong role, but that is super reliant on site meta and how the community views balance.

[Seanzie]

did we f'n hammer before kitty gave a definite answer himself...... i didnt even realize that

Apparently so. I just kind of assumed they were on board with targeting Mala.

[Seanzie]

Vibes
Will be here soon

Love to hear your thoughts on the game post-Klick flip.

[Seanzie]

Actually go Hascel>redcordinal. I will explain why.


Hascel claimed when Klick was not already dead. While there are two mafia, roleblocker is not really threat (well threat, but manageble), but while one, he NEED to be disposed off.
He not claiming targets, not to confuse mafia (if so, he would plainly say "Oh yeah, i healed person n1/n2" without actually healing or idk what he did, to REALLY get heal or force mafia on choice, there's no harm in lying about target for him).


Don't believe his claim. He made his claim useless on purpose. Afterwards he will tell "Oh yeah, i could't heal Kitty, because night before i used heal", but it's simple failsafe on case, he needs to explain why he didn't heal Kitty, but doesh't know when to kill him (exactly after death of teammate, before that roleblocker can wait to remain as passeble elim).


Also. Claim is simple loud "Don't roleblock me pretty pwease or you can die and fuck up!", so he claiming that before Klick execution WITHOUT ANY PROMPT should be telling. Again, if he "Wasted" his heal, he is fair game for roleblock, so he have incentive to lie, to not be outed.

Of course it's still possible Haschel is town, but then i don't understand his motivation. On other hand, he exactly have all motivation to do it as mafia.

You can choose to follow my word, or not (most likely you won't, but please consider it), that's all, see ya.

Ehh... kinda swayed tbh.

[Seanzie]

Okay, I think everyone has checked in. Schadd, RedCardinal, if you want to guess my role, go ahead.

[Seanzie]

more likely than t3, schadd, seanzie, or myself being scum yeah

Do you think that I wasn’t bussing Klick because of our interactions, or because you think I am independently towny?

Uhh... do you believe your actions could possibly be seen as bussing Klick? .You were defending them.

[Seanzie]

Anyone online? I'm in the mood to play.

[Seanzie]

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooring

[Seanzie]

ooh ooh I know this one! neighborizer :3

I mean I did have one game where I was a traitor combined neighborizer rolecop and I fakeclaimed combined neighborizer detective and got nightkilled by my own scum team

That was funny, ngl.

[Seanzie]

But yeah, I'm a neighborizer.

[Seanzie]

Sick beats bro.

Did you use it?

Ngl I haven’t read

Yeah, you've been in the neighborhood for two days now. Check your PMs.

[Seanzie]

But yeah, I'm a neighborizer.

Neighborizer is not investigative.

It is when I grill the crap out of you 1-on-1.

[Seanzie]

But yeah, I'm a neighborizer.

Modifiers?

Town Superbly Awesome Neighborizer.

[Seanzie]

But yeah, I'm a neighborizer.

Neighborizer is not investigative.

It is when I grill the crap out of you 1-on-1.

I can repeat.

Neighborizer.
Not.
Investigative.

[Seanzie]

But yeah, I'm a neighborizer.

Neighborizer is not investigative.

It is when I grill the crap out of you 1-on-1.

I can repeat.

Neighborizer.
Not.
Investigative.

[Seanzie]

Why Hascel said you are investigative at first place?

I told everyone KT was town without saying why, and then used this smilie: