Because he obviously wants us to kill him twice, making him Mafia Sleeper. Lol.
Open 163 (Jungle Republic)- Game Over before 835
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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@Hohum
Did I say I have a problem with a L-3 at the RVS? Nope because it's just the RVS. I just said it was odd because of 2 reasons:
1. Its page 1 so its just weird since it is my first game where this happened before.
2. Mastin didn't confirm yet.
My post 11 states both things.
Putting words in my mouth is another thing.
FoS: Hohum-
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Hohum, I'm not bitching about it. I just said it was odd to look at an L-3 wagon on page 1. Again you are putting words into my mouth.
Unvote
Vote: Hohum
You just twisted your own words together to try and make me look scummy out of nothing. (RVS is now dead for me)
@Town
If you support Hohum's statement then show how I am "bitchy" about the L-3 wagon.-
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@Sabre
While I agree that tunneling is bad on lets see page 1 on day 1 on the RVS stage, I disagree that I should forget about it. The issue should be dropped for now until the rest of the town joins in before a tunnel war starts, (and scum can fan the flames), but this exchange can be revealing for later on and it does call for a meta call on both parties.-
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@Nik
I agree that my post can be interpreted as defending Mastin, and concede to that but I wasn'texplicitly defending him nor criticizing the L-3 bandwagon.
Please bold your claims in my quotes because from what I understand: I just said I find it odd (but not scummy) that someone is at L-3 on page 1 because it is the first time I seen in in any of my games. I also commented that Mastin still hasn't confirmed yet as of this post. Both are stating the facts as everyone RVSes him for his notorious walling.
Talk about fanning the flames.-
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@Nik
1. You didn't point out how I'm bitching.
2. I said in my 22 you can interpret it as a defense. I retort that yes you can see it that way but I was only stating what I saw. What was in parentheses shows that in the context, and time frame of that post, and your RVS vote on post 4 all states: Mastin hasn't confirmed yet.
3. Explain to me how that statement could be used to defend Mastin Nik? I just said: He hasn't confirmed what are the chances he is reading this game? as you quoted.
4. You are admitting to ignoring what I wrote in parenthesis, which is part of what I said. Explain yourself why you chose to ignore it when quoting me?-
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@Hohum
I think Sabre just did (unless that was an expression you just used then I'll hit my head for not getting it and just looked at the literal meaning of the: practice what you preach with what was just posted)
Also there is a concept called pressure voting (but psst. It's a secret so don't tell any one. It's when you vote someone closer to L-1 to pressure them into talking more. Which is something that you wanted us to do in your 13 post against Mastin. /snarky comment)Sabrewolf wrote: defending others does not [always] equal scummy.
@Town
Before we go and tunnel each other to death, half the town hasn't posted yet and its only been a couple of days. Give it a couple more to let the town come in before more fanning commences.-
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@Nik
Sorry Nik but I didn't see it (it jumped to page 2 when I was making my post see my 26 and the timing of sabre's 25)
But yes it makes my vote very OMGUS in reasoning. But I interpreted as hohum twisting my words when I'm just stating some information from what I saw and read.
Also my responses:
1. I'm not. I don't care about the L-3 wagon. I care about how hohum twisted what I stated (which applies to you). The wagon is useful to generate a reaction and from there we can gauge the person's reaction since the town doesn't have anything concrete on the player's alignment. As I stated like 3-4 times now:I just found it odd since it was the first time I saw one on page 1.
2. The point is read my 27. I agree that you can interpret my post as a defense post, but I'm asking you toexplicitly show how I did it
3. I'm dense and dumb with an IQ of a rock. Enlighten me please since it looks like you can't support your own claim yourself.
4. Engish/Grammer Nazi (but you will be ignoring a large part of my posts. Oh gee, look at that.)-
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@Nik
You can paraphrase. You just said:Nik wrote: So it's okay for you to paraphrase, but it is not okay for me to paraphrase the same thing. Double standards much?
There is a difference from paraphrasing your words andNik wrote:DTM: I don't care about what you said in parenthesesnot caring what I said an parentheses-
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@Nik
Look at point 3. Be very, explicit. (I'm a rock talking to a guy running in circles around a thought.)
@Sabre
I can only interpret yours and Hohum having some seriousness in the vote (and maybe Nik but I think that's more RVS talk then actual accusation) The rest is RVS before it got horribly, horribly derailed. I'll make that summary post starting now.
@Hohum
But you are attacking a player (or players) for not following through on that wagon.-
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SUMMARY POST AS OF NOW: TUNNEL MANIA EDITION (end caps lock lol)
Now with that uselessness out of the way:
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Now for comments:
@Hohum
1. That actually is a good explanation. You win that exchange minus the name calling.
In review of what I summarized I cannot support my own vote since I actually just only get null-tells. I'm reacting to comments in a hyperactive setting. So to make my vote useful:
Unvote
Vote: Kill-kill
Read Nik's 20. This isn't a RVS vote (like my first one on Kill), but it is something I want to explore since Kill's RVS vote is after the whole tunnel exchange.-
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Oh I was skim rereading and in that activity mess I forgot to answer Nik's 56.
Here is my response
@Nik's 56
As of now I do not find neither of you scummy due to the hyper-active fest we went through.
But at that time I found Hohum scummier (and you bouncing on top of the argument) since he initiated the exchange. As time went on he was able to defend himself much fluidly which lead me to question whether or not it was OMGUS due to the situation (and it's the start of the game so you get extremely picky over the small things).
If I applied the same reasoning to you, I find you less scummy because its a null-tell in my POV. You are trying to gain more scum hunting reactions from building on top of Hohum's points which can be very pro-town or scummy in nature. Either way you have my reactions so far.
I apologize for not answering that question but I missed it completely.-
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@Nik
Toro is in another game with me and actually has some game experence, but not a lot. (In the other game I made note of some evidence of potential noobish play, but that is about it.)
@Toro/Admiral
It might be good to just read the analysis that me, and sabre did. It's a summary of the events (and sabre points out an intresting spectrum between us 4). Skipping the "random squabbles" tells me you don't care about the RVS reactions that was gained, which is one of the core parts of going through the RVS.-
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@Scott
I only did find it odd (but I didn't find it scummy). It's funny that in the end Mastin didn't even show up in the game.
@Hasdgfas
Telling people to unvote you? Its day 1, votes get moved around a lot and if you demonstrate a good townie feel then they will move off you on their own.
FoS:hasdgfasfor asking the voters to unvote you based on their policy against Mastin.-
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@Nik
Cow? Lol I assume you mean from that siggy :p
@has
I know this game is about implicit reasoning, but if you have nothing to hide then you should be able to explicitly express yourself. Asking people to do their own interpretations of your arguments (which is the point I put against Nik) is the same thing as putting the words in their mouth for you. Yes it's good to think this out on your own, but it's also bad because you assume too much from them. (My bit of mafia theory)-
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@Has
Forgot to answer your question >>;;.
I find it scummy because youasked for the unvotesjest or not. Asking for it joking or not reads as begging to me which at this stage is not necessary. The policy votes will come off (as you said from your experience) with or without mentioning it.
It's difficult to read sarcasm for me, then hear it. I did take what you said quite literally.-
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@Nik
Yes when you are trying to scum hunt and get scum readings you go through implicit reasoning. No scum player would ever claim that (though it would make the game easier). But my view on townies is different and you should be able to ask for their explicit thoughts. Withholding that information is very anti-town to me if he/she is questioned on it. (My scum theory input)
@Hasdgfas
I prefer typing out hasdgfas since it's your username (but the cow avy is fun :p)
I'm also quite a literal person, with or without smilies (but I try to catch the sarcasm/and joking).
@Paragraph you didn't understand.
If you read the exchange between me and Nik:
I go: Explain explicitly please.
He goes: my case is obvious so I don't need to.
I dislike this (no matter how obvious it is) since this mind set makes me put the argument that Nik didn't state in his own post for him. No matter how obvious it is, it isn'tliterally what he said, but what you assume he said.
Make sense? Should I try and clarify more? Nik understood me fine though.-
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@Has
First of read my 26 (point 1) and 38 (bold). I asked Nik to quote me and point it out since I thought I only made a general statement which to me is my first time seeing it. Nik made an argument against me and I asked him to prove it in my quotes.
I don't want to restart this argument all over again, it'll end up wasting time by rehashing my own statements and Nik (and other townies jumping) on the argument that I was defending Mastin. It'll be one big repeat again, which to me is useless unless you can point out something that the town over looked. Then I would be more inclined to revisit that issue that Sabre's 67 didn't already point out.-
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Whoops hit submit, not preview: >>
con't
Also I asked how the quote would be used to defend Mastin in my 26. I would need to make a convincing argument to stop the rest of the town from bandwagoning.
I found it odd in my 11for the reason that it was just page 1. Kill-kill was discomforted about it in his 71. I do not hate that bandwagon. People are acting on what Nik and Hohum said. A bandwagon is good to establish reactions from the person who is bandwagoning. The reactions are much more useful then looking at the people who started the bandwagon (unless it went to a hammer then the latter is much more useful).I agree with this, I even said I do not find it scummy in my 11.
You try to find the sub-text and make it into a defense post, but I clearly said what I was thinking at that time. I acknowledge this can be interpreted as a defense, but it is your interpretation.
/repeat rant
@question
>>;; My grammar is just weak, I know English. Second time I got asked this.-
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@Has
Which I acknowledge, but I want to understand howI bitched about the bandwagon. So far the response was:
You bitched about it, its obvious. If you can't see it I can't help you, sorry!
To me it makes no sense. So I guess no help for poor me. (This gets into an argument about semantics anyways... which is very distracting for the town)-
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My statement shows that I wasn't uncomfortable about the wagon. If you don't believe me and want my 11 post to have that meaning then fine, take it. The only way it'll confirm this is my death which will make it just plain anti-town for me to martyr my point across if I was town (and anti-scum if I was scum).-
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@Has
My stance is: I don't have on the Mastin wagon because I have 0 tells on anyone. The only people I dislike are the people taking a very backseat approach right now (see: Toro, Scott, Link, Kill and Cain, Admiral). Lurking isn't a scum tell, just a null tell right now, and it's been two days since the first post.
To me the only readings I get is a town-tell from sabre and the rest is null and my overreaction due to hyperactivity. This resultedfrom the reaction from my original post, not from the reaction on the bandwagon.
Edit:Recent Post
I cannot use that part as an argument against people. If I did, I would contradict myself. This would mean I would be extremely scummy for lying on my mafia theory and being very opportunistic.-
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@Has
If I had done it then it would warrant a case on me, if I didn't then it doesn't mean anything. >>;; A bit premature to jump on me for this now.
Also Sabre is the only one sane enough to try and stop the tunneling. He was the first person to address this issue, and no one else did. Confusion can only strengthen scum actions, clearing confusion is more townie then anything.-
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@Has
1. It would mean I would already have a preconceived notion of Mastin's alignment. I don't and I don't want to unless there is sufficient evidence to support Mastin's township/scuminess. (Well refer this to you since you are the replacement). The bandwagon is a tool to learn from reactions. My reaction is, I got nothing because the topic jumped on me and Mastin replaced out. (Plus I agree, your "might" would have more strength depending what I do later.)
2. That would imply that Sabre would be defending one of us no? Also early game tunneling is very bad when the rest of the town can take a backseat approach (read as: if the scum team was everyone else they would gain +town points by fanning the flames of the argument).
It is early to say that he is confirmed town, but to me he hints of towniness from what he did. But I digress since your POV is just as valid from Scum-Sabre POV.-
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@Lumi
No one did the traditional welcome post! "insert that here".
Also since I see sabre as more pro-town then scummy, can you elaborate more on this (maybe even debunk some of my own arguments). I'm not entirely convinced that his aggression against Nik can be interpreted as scummy, I see it as a neutral tell right now.
To me your summary post might read as: "soft defending Nik," but only in a faint light.
@Scott
FYI: Toro's meta shows he posts little, with odd comments. I do not know if this is a town or scum meta (the game is ongoing) but he has shown that his style is easily interpreted as scummy.
@Admiral
Summary post when you get better access to internet. I want one since there isn't a lot to read as of now.
@Town who hasn't contribute more then 2 posts.
If you do not state your reasons why you are so inactive (ie I have work and I can only post once every 3 days) I'm going to have to agree with Nik's 135.-
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@Zazier
I know its your meta to do this (reading the Grimmy's Pokemon madness) But I prefer a wall then this spammage. (Though it is devious and gets your post count up)
My responses:
157: I see the main reasons as two policy votes (hohum,sabre), a typical bandwagon (cain) vote, and a joke vote (nik). I have no reads on the players who voted since it was too early. Bandwagons in general lead to reactions that the town can benefit from (from the player who is getting bandwagoned and others who will react to the bandwagon).
158: My summary post in 62 said my vote was abad vote. Again I was only stating what I saw. My explanation was: I saw this on page 1, it looks weird since it's my first time seeing this. I was stating my mind set.
I did not take it further to discredit the bandwagon itself. You, hohum, Nik and most of the town are viewing this as such and I acknowledge that my post can be viewed that way but I deny that it was my intention to do so. Hence my answer is: I wasn't trying to derail the bandwagon, I was just stating my inner thoughts at that time. Accept that answer as you will.
162:
1. Nik wanted Hohum to pressure vote me. I was being snarky with that statement when I also viewed that Hohum wanted to apply the same situation on Mastin with his 13 (Hohum attacked me for "trying to run interference" with the wagon on Mastin when I said I had no issues with it when I should have voted Mastin. Also see his policy vote. Hohum wanted the wagon on Mastin) I should have added /sarcasm but I put /snarky comment to emphasize I was being sarcastic.
2. I wanted others to chime in because this is mafia and the point of the thread is discussion. The town doesn't consist of4 players who are the only one posting content on the 16th. Many of them confirmed, and they only posted 2 days after this (some even got prodded before they posted).
165: I think sabre was responding to the fact thatonly 4 people where talking and it took 3 days later for the rest of the town to speak up.Also suspicion passed around us 4 between us. My thoughts though, not his.
Its premature to assume that he was serious in the fact that there are only 4 scum.
@Kill-kill
By now I find it more anti-town what Cain and Admiral are lurker types. There are little analytical posts, and too many iffy comments. It makes me think they will only respond when they are called upon.
@Toro
You disapproved on Cain's bandwagon vote when Mastin was at L-3 in the RVS? It's stretching that argument. I think he was trying to get more reactions then forcing a lynch during this stage (besides it would be much more useful for the RVS wagon to go to lynch since we would know scum was part of that wagon).-
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Hmm I'm seeing a deja vu here am I not?
@Scott/Hohum/Toro
Do you three see Sabre's 187, 188, and 189 as OMGUS reasons and not actual, legit reasons that would make Zazier scummy. Can you debunk his argument to show how this is done?
I personally agree that with the statement that Zazier's posts can be seen as mudslinging among the four active players (fanning the flames again).-
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@Town
Sorrry! I neglected this game since another one of mine got interesting. My current thoughts:
@Has
I was only intrested if you found something else that Zaszier missed when he posted his "literally" page analysis. Personally I see more pro-towness from Sabre's posts I'll give my take on Zaszier's 169:
Post 52: I read this post as it was from Sabre's POV rather then him speaking on behalf on a few players. (Note: "I'll just claim for me part")
Post 54: This would have more merit if Sabre didn't post his analysis on 67. Out of the 4 of us, the only one who didn't post an analysis was Hohum, which brings me to question:Hohum, why didn't you do Sabre's request? Zazier, why didn't you point the finger at Hohum for this?
Post 67: Establishing spectrum of townies is another way of narrowing down scum suspects. If one person is lynched out of the 4, then you can see that logically it makes no sense for the other person on opposite ends of the connection is the scum partner (unless it is an elaborate busing maneuver but that gets into WIFOM territory)-
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@Zazier
Responses:
Post 103: By last paragraph I'm assuming my:
If it isn't can you quote the "paragraph" (since this is actually a sentence, not a paragraph). I typed it since, it's my thought process? Sarcasm is difficult for me to read on the interwebs because when you hear it from someone you also have voice inflections, and tone to hear it from. I was questioned by Has for literally seeing that his 95 post was begging to get unvoted (with smiley). At the time I ignored the smiley so argument ensued. It's how I think, quite literally (pun intended).DTM wrote: It's difficult to read sarcasm for me, then hear it. I did take what you said quite literally.
Post 122: It's me rehashing that:
1. I did not say I didn't like the bandwagon. I did not say I was uncomfortable with the bandwagon. I just said I saw it was odd since it was page 1 and it's the first time seeing it.
2. That my 11 post you can interpret it as defending, but I personally did not intend to defend Mastin.
3. The only way to confirm this is by my death, since it will reveal my alignment. I won't play suicidally because that is plain dumb to do so and hurts the faction I'm aligned with.
Anything else that you need clarified on?
Post 127: "It" refers to the back peddling on the original Mastin wagon. I wrote "it's odd" and Has said I could go back and accuse people on the argument that the wagon was "scummy" when I clearly said "it wasn't scummy"
If I used this argument then I would be extremely scummy for:
1. Lying
2. Being opportunistic on the current town opinion
I countered that it's premature to use this argument on me since the "opportunity is there" but I never used it. It's best used if I had slipped.
151: No welcome cakes for you!!!!! Spammer >:<
I'm reading Grimmy's game because I want to :3. The flavour is amazing.
On a serious note:
I was using this meta just as a note since Toro's style is consistent in both games. That was the purpose of the FYI to Scott.
180: Devious means evil and cunning. I was jesting since you get your post count up by posting like this at a really fast rate.
Also why do you post like this? I know it's your style and all but just curious.
Lastly: I agree with the reasons on a policy vote depending on what the policy is and when it's invoked. So I would need to look at this from a case by case scenario.
In this game, the two policy votes were on Mastin for his walling and play style during the RVS. I do not have an issue with these policy votes because:
1. This is during the RVS where people had vote/ and will continue to vote for silly reasons until discussion can occur.
2. I never played a game with Mastin but with his current reputation he's known as the replacement killer. Sabre and Hohum's vote to try and stop the wall seems justified, but only during the RVS. If it was determined that Mastin was townie then I would not agree with the policy vote and would argue that the votes are best spent scum hunting.
I answered for Sabre because I think your point wasn't accurate. It isn't scummy to defend someone who you think it's town or point out inaccuracies when you see them. Again I did say these were my thoughts and not Sabres so I wouldn't be answering for him. I'm not him so I wouldn't know his thoughts.
Again I catch sarcasm sometimes (and I do my best to. I know this reads as weak sauce reasoning but I either see it or I don't. That's it.) It felt premature to assume that Sabre already knew there were four scum. Do you believe this was quite a literal scum slip?
Reading sabre's ISO 5 reads as frustrated townie with the whole -_- smiley.
My last paragraph though that's my fault. I missed Cain's post when I went back and reread the page after you pointed this out. I take back my statement against Toro then since Cain's post is scummy.
Part 1 Done. I'll continue with the second half of my posts but I want to post before I lose this giant blob of text.-
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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Comments
@Sabre/Zazier Meta Call
Unfortunately the search button is disabled to fix the memory leaks, so unless someone archives their games (or updates their wiki pages), it might be difficult to track the games down.
Saber did you keep your role PMs?
Also you could ask Mastin for those meta links. Maybe that'll help.
@Sabre
I like the links you establish, but I'm a bit wary to put full faith in this because of the concept of busing. For now though this point is weak since it involves WIFOM reasoning and there is not enough information from personal alignments.
@Admiral
I know you are V/LA and all but when you are rereading this can you do a summary post. Hope your internet gets working again.
(Just a little reminder to the town while lurking is very anti-town, Admiral was the only person with a legit reason to give for it. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for his situation)
@Town
I'm much more comfortable with a vote on Kill-kill and/or Cain right now due to the outlined reasons. So direct questions for both of them if they ever come and reply:
1. Both: What are your current town reads?
2. Cain: Are you still satisfied with your vote on Lumi/Mastin? It's past the RVS now, so if you still like the vote why are you keeping it? What's your case on Lumi?
3. Both: What do you have to say in defense to your lurkerish actions.
4. Kill-Kill: You are keeping your vote on Cain but you mentioned that his meta involved some odd mistakes (ie town claiming scum, etc). Why did you keep your vote if you knew Cain's town meta was poor and you outlined he was looked like he was acting noobish in your ISO 3?-
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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@Kill-kill
It is true, but you are also guilty of doing the something. You are tunneling on Cain without actively scum hunting him (ie asking him questions). Your recent arguments only read as: I am pressing him because he is newb and anti-town, not I'm pressing him because he is scummy.
Your ISO 3 supports this statement:
Your vote and your reasoning do not make sense. You were the one to bring up his meta as being very noobish in your ISO 3, what is different from his last game to this game to suggest his current actions are scummy?Kill-kill wrote: About all I have now is a feeling that out of hohum, nikanor, and DTM one is scum. Cain could either be scummy or just plain weird, and Toro seems to be tunnelling on Cain, without solid reasons (I understand there are reasons, I am just saying I don't consider them enough to bring out the pitchforks)
Scott brings up a good point with his 305 that you are actively lurking, you only responded to my number 4, the only question that was directed to you individually.
You skipped my number 1 and number 3 questions which is addressed to both you and Cain. Why? What are your responses to them?-
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@Kill-kill
1. Yes voting is another way to pressure someone to answer is another method of scum hunting. No you can't say that you don't have questions to ask Cain in the midst of this. Even I had asked both you and Cain questions to answer for your lurker charges. Your hypothetical situation showing that you cannot question scum hunt Cain to me is just a bad excuse to not participate in the town discussion and to continue on with active lurking.
Even Lumi who has a similar style posted continued with some activity (see her 285) and tried to get some questions answered. She even went further and did a town analysis in her 140 without me asking you.
2. He didn't fake claim scum? In this game yes. In the other game he did.
This suggests that he is still developing his style. If you are basing your argument on this point you still need to answer for the wholeIso 3 Kill-kill wrote: I think just inexperienced, period. He fake-claimed scum day one in the other game I am in, and just got lynched (vanilla townie).inexperience part of his meta that you gave us.
3. Not me? Odd sentence to put in (and reads as: hostile to me). Can you elaborate on why they are townie. Can you also expand to your top scum picks are right now?
4. You are making a false accusation of me. First off you are actively lurking right there. Secondly you tell me in the whole 13 pages of content you have nothing, absolutely nothing to comment on other then your case on Cain? I'm not asking you to make 30 weak posts of ZOMG SPAM HERE PLZ, I'm asking you to participate in the town discussion.
If your case is so valid on Cain, why aren't you actively showing how Cain is currently more scummier/deserves to be looked at then say me or sabre wolf. You don't have to actively defend us here, just point out for example:
"While Sabre and DTM show lots of buddying, and sabre is ultra sensitive against Zazier, Cain has been lurking since his last posts. Lurking is very anti-town and blah blah blah... keep with the vote."-
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@Kill-kill
1. Yes because ignoring those questions and "playing anti-town" is another argument against Cain if he doesn't answer them. I don't see how questioning would not be beneficial in your case against Cain, not questioning him is much worse in my opinion.
2. Since you gave out his meta, had you considered that he might be inexperienced in general? Yes his posts are weird and have a sense of scumminess, but as you said he only posted 3 things so far. I can't make a strong read off him just on 3 posts, but your recent statements:
"I did. I feel he is inexperienced scum. Do you have any reason to believe that he is not scum?"
Show a sense of bias against him.
3. I dislike your methods right now which is why I'm questioning your intent. When I do an ISO read this is how it goes:
ISO 0: RVS Vote
ISO 1: Your joking statements on the town reads as of so far. While you did do a partial IIoA rehash on this post, but you did weigh in on your thoughts here on each point. +towniness
ISO 2: Interesting response to Nik's question, though I dislike the fact that you didn't do this summary post until after you were called on it.
ISO 3: This is where you gave the meta information and point your finger at: your top 3 are hohum, nik and me (one is scum). Next is Cain for his odd play and Toro for his tunneling. I note the fact that you haven't gone for the top picks and went straight for Cain. Here you take into account Cain's inexperience to mafia but later condemn it.
ISO 4: Your argument, while true, the problem is Cain is inexperienced in general. It's a double standard to assume Cain's one game with you would assume that Cain's town actions would play along your pro-town scenario. It might be obvious for a lot of players that you should follow up on your vote, but you are applying this argument on the guy who fake-claimed scum. Until more posts are given I'm willing to justIGMIOY: Cainand take notes as things develop. It doesn't clear Cain's actions, but I'm more lenient to give him the benefit of the doubt till he makes more effort to explain himself. Also I would prefer to keep a noob townie then a pro-scum player at the end of the day.
ISO 5 and ISO 6 are me calling you out after the giant walls of posts were done. The issue: you read to reply back to me quite quickly but had nothing to contribute to the current debate going on.
I get a sense that your posts reads as person going for the easy target, rather then actively trying to scum hunt. You have a large lists of people to be considered scum and a small list of weak townie links. It just feels off when you aren't expanding on which of those links are true or not.
4. Your Scott statement is interesting, can you point out more on this case?
5. Your statements on the townies I agree with your point but some issues are there:
a. I don't quite understand how Toro fits into a more townie scenario then the rest of the list. Your busing argument is WIFOM, so it is a weak reason to state. You assume too much when you say they can't be on the same faction (it looks unlikely but yes too soon), nor does it excludes the potential for Toro being on a different scum faction.
It reads as bias on someone who agrees with you and should go after Cain since he is the other person who wants to investigate him more.
b. Cow's anti-wishy-washy statements were done a while ago (see end of page 5 start of page 6). While his point is valid can you elaborate on how Has' recent activities support his township?
c. Can you elaborate why Zazier is just a null tell. I personally see him null possibly leaning townie since he's been producing some results with his wall posts, but dislike some parts of his arguments as I outlined in my posts.
Mod: Can we prod Cain and get an Updated Vote count?-
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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- Joined: May 28, 2009
- Location: Bracing himself in Canada.
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 4712
- Joined: May 28, 2009
- Location: Bracing himself in Canada.
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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- Location: Bracing himself in Canada.
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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@Kill-kill
1. Actually I was at work when I posted (15 minute break FTL) so thanks for pointing this out. That was a scum-hunting slip on my part.
2. I have no reason to think he is town, but at the same time I have no reason to think he is scum. I have a neutral read on him. This is why I wanted you to outline how his actions are scummy, but it's tough since he hardly posted anything.
Lurking is more anti-town then scummy to me.
3. Oh really? I would consider Cain just as easy because people would use his lurking against him. Sabre at least responds to your posts and reasoning which could back fire against you.
4. I want your thoughts. If I wanted to ISO read him I will when I have time. Please elaborate on your statement. By now you must know I want explicit details about this.
5. Like I said you assume too much. Of course the oddslook betterwhen you assume a bunch of people to be town, but it doesn't mean it changes. The only real way that this is changed begins on day 2 when we have at least a kill to narrow down the population. Think of this from a statistician point of view, how easily we hit a scum faction or a town faction only changes at the end of each day/night.
@Cain
Answer my questions! Motivation time!
Unvote
Vote: Cain-
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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Found in my Post 301
Since you unvoted I want to edit my question 2 to: Why did you unvote?DTM wrote:
1. Both: What are your current town reads?
2. Cain: Are you still satisfied with your vote on Lumi/Mastin? It's past the RVS now, so if you still like the vote why are you keeping it? What's your case on Lumi?
3. Both: What do you have to say in defense to your lurkerish actions.
Also it's poor in your image to forget that you had this vote active since it suggests that you haven't been keeping up with the game.
The other thing is you are self imposing a scummy/lurker image (if you are townie) to inflict back at scum hopping on "an easy bandwagon". The issue here is the reasoning looks a lot like OMGUS, which is a weak argument to fight back, rather then opportunism. Also your recent statement reads as AtE, where you full claimed as townie in response to the new pressure.
More scumhunting less AtE nonsense please. (if you are townie)-
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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I'll answer you.
OMGUS is Oh My God You Suck. It's an abbreviated form of the argument that: you voted against the person who is voting for you without a solid case. This makes your vote a very weak one and is potentially a scum-tell.
AtE is known as Appeal to Emotion where you try and literally appeal to our emotions in your argument. Rather then use logic and reasoning you are literally using emotion to present your argument.
For example your comment oh how this is your third game can be interpreted as AtE since you aren't defending your lurker actions with positive reasons. The idea that "this is your third game" implies a request to take it easier on you when the pressure is on you because you are newbie, rather then you trying to fully convince the township with a logic case.-
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@Cain
1. Lurking is really bad if you don't have a legit reason to show why you couldn't contribute for a long time. But I'm more willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for now.
2. That is bad play if you don't have a reasonable case to fight back.
3. Toro is right, read his post.
4. Now that you know AtE and OMGUS answer my questions.
My vote stays until you answer them.-
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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- Location: Bracing himself in Canada.
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DTMaster Mafia Scum
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- Joined: May 28, 2009
- Location: Bracing himself in Canada.