Mini 1749: Classic Rock Mafia: Game Over!

[Garmr]

wagon on aero.

VOTE: aero.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Garmr
You changed your avatar.

It's my original one when I first joined the site

wagon on aero.

VOTE: aero.

Not belittling me must be scum

[Garmr]

mattp has a slight scummy response going to serious vote him.

VOTE: mattp

@aero

[Garmr]

mattp has a slight scummy response going to serious vote him.

What was that?

The fact he asked why over something rvs that didn't need much explaining. I don't know how to put this into words but was there any reason to ask why for something rvs like. Just seems a bit you know.

[Garmr]

mattp has a slight scummy response going to serious vote him.

What was that?

The fact he asked why over something rvs that didn't need much explaining. I don't know how to put this into words but was there any reason to ask why for something rvs like. Just seems a bit you know.

It's pretty innocuous to try to move RVS along by prodding RVS votes?

What's the point of it when it's obviously a rvs. It like saying I like red that's why i will vote this person who likes gold then someone ask why would you do that.
What response were you expecting from the rvs?

Also why trying to push that it isn't bad to do instead of it isn't scummy that's a strange angle to come from?

[Garmr]

What's the point of it when it's obviously a rvs. It like saying I like red that's why i will vote this person who likes gold then someone ask why would you do that.
What response were you expecting from the rvs?

Also why trying to push that it isn't bad to do instead of it isn't scummy that's a strange angle to come from?

I don't think it's common sense that it's RVS for a player to quote a player's rxn to a vote and then wagon that player? People rationalize things as small as an emoticon reaction for a vote. Even if it's a low-stakes beginning-of-day-1 vote with weak reasoning people still justify reads with weak reasoning early on to move RVS along and it's not foul play to engage that sort of vote to continue a dialogue

Well it's first page, I said lets wagon him and there was no case on aero thus it's obvious to see it's a rvs wagon. Also I think Dwlee would of said something if his vote was serious. It's more the fact you were trying to push yourself as harmless instead of trying to dismiss my position as weak.

[Garmr]

mattp has a slight scummy response going to serious vote him.

What was that?

The fact he asked why over something rvs that didn't need much explaining. I don't know how to put this into words but was there any reason to ask why for something rvs like. Just seems a bit you know.

It's pretty innocuous to try to move RVS along by prodding RVS votes?

What's the point of it when it's obviously a rvs. It like saying I like red that's why i will vote this person who likes gold then someone ask why would you do that.
What response were you expecting from the rvs?

To be fair, your description on his response as "slight scummy" makes it appear like you are no longer participating in RVS.

Also why trying to push that it isn't bad to do instead of it isn't scummy that's a strange angle to come from?

Very much this. It's as if MattP feels like he is playing his scum-aligned role adequately, yet is attacked on an inadequate basis.

I was talking about the wagon aero being rvs and my responce to matt p is not rvs. I think your confused with some aspects.

[Garmr]

Forgive me, I'm on ambien that I swallowed a few minutes before this wagon started

I don't know how I should feel about this, considering that he has mentioned his usage of Ambien in previous games and it probably affects his judgement and behavior. It may not necessarily account for what he has posted here, though. I would definitely like to retain the pressure on his wagon and hear more from MattP once he becomes unaffected by his medication.

It may be because of his medication he didn't think it through and responded what was on top of is mind. I am starting to think he could show his scum game more when his drugged up.

[Garmr]

Forgive me, I'm on ambien that I swallowed a few minutes before this wagon started

I don't know how I should feel about this, considering that he has mentioned his usage of Ambien in previous games and it probably affects his judgement and behavior. It may not necessarily account for what he has posted here, though. I would definitely like to retain the pressure on his wagon and hear more from MattP once he becomes unaffected by his medication.

It may be because of his medication he didn't think it through and responded what was on top of is mind. I am starting to think he could show his scum game more when his drugged up.

Are you using meta to decipher Matt's play? Could you direct to the post to where he's likely scum in your eyes - as previously stated, I'm not seeing it.

The "scum-like meta when drugged up" thing doesn't seem to hold a lot of weight.

Explain this Radja vote AI.

Ironically for being one of the less active players. Just see it as a random vote.

Alright, I'll take that at face value.

No reaction to my claim?

I want to say Matt is town for being so quickly pushed L-2 by the 2nd page, just for saying "Why" to a wagon.... His reasoning doesn't mark me as scummy, unless I'm missing something?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64070

Blocky was town who got lol-hammered day 1?

And that's relevant, how? Is that an alt?

quickly pushed L-2

whats makes him town base on this?

>

I've yet to see RVS wagons hit scum, despite how uncredible this reason is.

>

How can scum be so quickly pushed to L-2? You'd think someone would have a stance opposing it but I don't see much of any resistance here.

>

"Why?" Isn't a good basis for a scumread. I can see if they had meta congruent to this and someone would like to keep someone at L-2 there... But it doesn't really make sense. Questions in RVS

should

be asked, and that's how I'm seeing this wagon formed over.

How about instead of focusing on the medication thing and putting your own words into it (it's nothing to do with meta.) Seriously I don't like the way you tried to twist things.

The original reasoning on him was weak coming out of rvs and he could of easily argued a point to it being null but instead like that instead he played it off as him being harmless and it doesn't hurt anyone. IThat's scummy as.

The fact you ignored this being brought up and went straight to defending him means you either didn't bother reading the game or your purposely opting to do that and judging by your posts it leans to the latter which disturbs me.

Also your points
1. I have seen scum been run up in rvs I have been that scum that was run up in rvs and still lived and won. Just because you lack experience with it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. This is a fools way of thinking

2. Asking why over a rvs is ok the votes on him for it wouldn't of been that strong and would of quickly shifted when some else popped up but he panicked and tried to present himself as harmless. This is what people are voting him over and his weird behavior. Using medication as a excuse is awful as well and he shouldn't play if his drugged up.

I really don't like your attitude around this wagon instead of going for what people are voting him for you go for the drug thing.
Also your defending the wagon while you haven't listed one person as scum or thought of one person as scummy.

You can be scum I don't see any town effort put into your posts your just looking for the white knight.

[Garmr]

people I don't like
taly
mattp

People I do like frozen.

[Garmr]

dwelee let me bitch slap you for being dumb there we go.


I don't think matt is town. But taly is treating matt like they are town with no reasoning and defending them by distorting facts this is white knighting the wagon.

In forum parlance, it means rushing to the aid of another poster for whatever reason. An accusation typically reserved for when a poster is being hammered by another poster(s) and the accused leaps in to defend them, usually without thinking things through as to why the person is being attacked

I also never said I thought matt was a downie. Also scum defend there buddies to ;/

[Garmr]

scum can white knight other scum don't get into the thinking that scum only defend townies they can defend there partners to.

[Garmr]

Whiteknighting is generally when scum defends a townie for town cred. I guess I misunderstood you.

It's fine just i have dealt with to many situations like this in the past were people focus on my wording instead of what I'm actually trying to say. Sorry I got agitated.

[Garmr]

Really can't be stuffed answering walls in the future of the same thing taly so lets get this down.

The original reasoning on him was weak coming out of rvs and he could of easily argued a point to it being null but instead like that instead he played it off as him being harmless and it doesn't hurt anyone. IThat's scummy as.

You could have just said this instead of making wild assumptions of me questioning the wagon.

I have been saying this for ages you obviously don't fucking read taly if you don't read the game what do you actually plan to bring into the game taly.

Forgive me, I'm on ambien that I swallowed a few minutes before this wagon started

I don't know how I should feel about this, considering that he has mentioned his usage of Ambien in previous games and it probably affects his judgement and behavior. It may not necessarily account for what he has posted here, though. I would definitely like to retain the pressure on his wagon and hear more from MattP once he becomes unaffected by his medication.

It may be because of his medication he didn't think it through and responded what was on top of is mind. I am starting to think he could show his scum game more when his drugged up.

You said

'his scum game.

' What are you referring to? Were you not going off a playstyle you had over him previously?

I never mention anything of meta it just a fucking guess, because I have a scum read on him it reflects in my guess get me.

The fact you ignored this being brought up and went straight to defending him means you either didn't bother reading the game or your purposely opting to do that and judging by your posts it leans to the latter which disturbs me.

Defending? I stated why I believed Matt was likely town and how I didn't entirely understand the wagon, if you saw my points and recognized that I did pose questions on the thinking of the wagon then why are you taking this in such a completely different direction?

Opting to do what? If I sheeped the thinking and vote on the wagon that'd push him straight to L-1. Scum and town could hammer, what would come from a flip like that in 3-5 pages when not everybody has even posted yet, specifically outside of RVS?

You know what would sort out half this problem if you learn to fucking read. Also you don't need to place your vote down on him. Your lack of reading and defending him just because his l-2 makes you scummy. If you are somehow town then your just a shit player for not reading in my eyes you're not a big loss if you die.

Also your points
1. I have seen scum been run up in rvs I have been that scum that was run up in rvs and still lived and won. Just because you lack experience with it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. This is a fools way of thinking

Want to link me some games on this?

How about no since your annoying me.

2. Asking why over a rvs is ok the votes on him for it wouldn't of been that strong and would of quickly shifted when some else popped up but he panicked and tried to present himself as harmless. This is what people are voting him over and his weird behavior. Using medication as a excuse is awful as well and he shouldn't play if his drugged up.

Not exactly sure if he's being harmless if he's asking questions and putting his stance on things.

Didn't like the medication excuse, but does that mean he's scum?

Are you fucking serious

mattp has a slight scummy response going to serious vote him.

What was that?

The fact he asked why over something rvs that didn't need much explaining. I don't know how to put this into words but was there any reason to ask why for something rvs like. Just seems a bit you know.

It's pretty innocuous

to try to move RVS along by prodding RVS votes?

Like, the worst-case scenario is that it doesn't get an appreciable rise out of the person you ask the question to and RVS continues

Or this happens (':

His trying to downplay himself as harmless here instead of of justifying his action as town and what he hopped to get out of dwelee.

dwelee let me bitch slap you for being dumb there we go.

I don't think matt is town. But taly is treating matt like they are town with no reasoning and defending them by distorting facts this is white knighting the wagon.

You're continuing the idea that I'm WKing someone and saying I'm distorting the facts yet you've never asked anything to clarify and instead assumed that I'm "defending" someone I think is likely town.

You defended him with out actually going into the reasoning why people think his scum and assumed why he was getting voted. Your white knighting that's a fact. If you are town and white knighting then you are the village idiot.

[Garmr]

How could it be helpful what did you expect as a answer?

It still doesn't change the fact your pushing that the question to harmless. Your just doing it in a different way. Post 136 indicates that. It wasn't your question that took us out of rvs btw it was me who did it. Who decided to push you for it. So doing that to try and justify the logic is extremely bad especially because your plan was obviously not "make myself look bad to move out of rvs".

[Garmr]

Radja vote on abr seems scummy but I'm conflicted because I still feel mattp is somewhat scummy.

[Garmr]

I am liking Aero and Dier for town atm. Taly is leaning town, too.

Personally I don't like that matt p dropped a soft claim to doctor earlier considering there probably isn't a doctor in this game.

[Garmr]

I am liking Aero and Dier for town atm. Taly is leaning town, too.

Personally I don't like that matt p dropped a soft claim to doctor earlier considering there probably isn't a doctor in this game.

Wasn't he referring to his avatar?

It felt like he was laying down a fake claim for latter.

[Garmr]

Your opinion of me is so stale - I've explained my rationale to you. You've ignored my explanations until I forced you to engage me (why is it so difficult to get you to engage me? Shouldn't you want to engage me? Don't you want me dead?) and then I provided further explanations that clearly explain the things you have reservations with (I'm not an idiot, I can see clearly that my explanations make sense, other people are fine with my explanations and have unvoted me). You're forcing puzzle pieces to fit into your story line of why I'm scummy to you (seriously, you think I'm "crumbing" and that "doc doesn't fit into the setup"?)

You're either tunnel-visioning or you're forcing the read, I'm the only person you've called out all game (other than to say, "Radja is scummy but mattp is scummier so I feel uncomfortable moving" with no explanation for why Radja is scummy)

HAHAHA wow and this was from the genius who down played him self but now he has no pressure he gets confidence fucking obvious mafia not moving my vote now.

[Garmr]

Just look at matt p change of personality after the pressures off if that doesn't ring mafia then I don't know what does.

[Garmr]

How could it be helpful what did you expect as a answer?

It still doesn't change the fact your pushing that the question to harmless. Your just doing it in a different way. Post 136 indicates that. It wasn't your question that took us out of rvs btw it was me who did it. Who decided to push you for it. So doing that to try and justify the logic is extremely bad especially because your plan was obviously not "make myself look bad to move out of rvs".

You're not even directly responding to what I'm saying. I never said I brought us out of RVS, I said that asking someone a question about a possible non-RVS

could

bring the game out of RVS. I've brought games out of RVS, by engaging people, it's not earth-shattering logic.

His vote could have been based on him not liking Aero's reaction, and there could have been shitty or reasonable logic behind it, or it could have been a meaningless entirely RVS vote. I was simple asking to engage a player and gauge a response/reaction from that player. My point was that there could be utility to that - at worse it could do nothing. The point was, "what's the harm to engaging people in RVS?" not "look how harmless I'm being!"

I don't care if you brought us out of RVS, congratulations. I'm not at all concerned

And for the record, yeah, it did nothing. His response of "why not" made it clear it was a random vote and I didn't continue the conversation. If he said, "because he responded in an awkward way" or something to that effect then I would have continued that discussion.

And if you think people don't over-rationalize votes like that in early-game, or try to rationalize votes like that in early-game, you're wrong, it happens all the time.

Especially newbs. If someone like Reckoner or kanye made that vote I wouldn't have asked why. The player that made the vote joined the forum in 2015, my threshold for assuming the worst of newbs in lower than that for experienced players.

pedit: if you're on firefox, that's what's wrong. Idk why.

Garmr, this didn't deserve a response?

No

[Garmr]

@Frozen angel and anyone else looking at matt as scum

-Mattp is scum and I'm glad how you picked up on matts role drop wifom and got a similar thought process than mine. All the things he quoted in 255. His trying to say he was trying to bring us out of rvs with his question.

-But lets look at the fact scum want to look like they are doing something and that's what does matt achieve with that nothing. Through the point is weaker what he is ignoring is initial response. He focus's on the the why question which I admitted and said time again was a weaker part of my case as I thought his initial response was scummy and he hasn't brought a satisfactory answer to the table to answer that.

-He tried changing what he said and even with the changed explanation it still lead to the same result of him worrying about he is perceived instead of trying to add value to hunting scum.

-It's also possible that mattp is on the scum team and intentionally did that drop to try and find out if there is any dr now I think about it. There is plenty of scum motive to do that and no town motive.


Also look at how fast the wagon assembled then disassembled there was likely scum on the wagon and I think it was a early bus and saw the opportunity to jump off. It's not the first time someones been caught in rvs. Also running up someone early fast is a great way to diffuse the wagon as someone is always guaranteed to rush to defend against it.

there are a couple of other things I find scummy but I want to see if other players picked up on it

@matt p

actually changed my mind about not responding to that. In post 143 you say that if it was a more experienced player you wouldn't bother asking but earlier you were trying to make the case it doesn't hurt and can only help us get out of rvs. If it never hurts to ask why be selective about who you ask it kinda contradicts your reasoning a little.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Dierfire

I'm surprised to see a naked vote on page 9 when the thread has clearly progressed from RVS.

I guess you've never played mafia

Cool first contribution to the thread btw

This response does not look harmless. ._.

Wait, what is this vote for? Specifically why now - when Dier hasn't responded to the current votes - and not before?

Why wouldn't I add pressure to a wagon prior to diers response?

1)

Stating this kind of reason partially defeats the purpose of pressuring a wagon.

2)

If it is for pressure, and dier has responded - do you believe he's scum?

3)

I'm not a mind reader.

Actually I don't think that this needs many words.

UNVOTE: AlwaysInnocent
VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

The vote on Mathilda is fine, but if the point was to get a better read on Mathilda, then why remove it before Mathilda returns?

Ha ha, that's why I can't use tabs any more.
Anyway, fine, let's not argue about that.
Let's instead discuss your point that I am not contributing original thoughts.
I thought that my vote on AlwaysInnocent was fairly novel, and I don't recall anyone else pointing out the discrepancies with Frozen's timestamps as I did in 91 and 129. I also think that my most recent vote on ABR is relatively new and I would like to know what you think of my reasoning.

I don't really see your reasoning on ABR? You didn't really say it...

I am liking Aero and Dier for town atm. Taly is leaning town, too.

Cool that you have townreads... Any scum?

Can you explain your Garmr townread?

Also, you said that my miller claim would be dealt with. Why not now, and when is later?

Garmr was the one who originally pushed MattP for his question in RVS. He posted what I was thinking before I got the chance to make a post about it myself. That's usually something that gives me an immediate townread on someone. The pushing of MattP was also the end of RVS, which moved the game forward.

About the miller claim, what I mean is that it's not unlikely it will sort itself out. Whether you are lying or not, there are PR's in this game, and it is possible for one of them to out you if you are lying. So you get to live through day 1, at least. I'll deal with your claim if it becomes a problem(which would be right before LYLO, most likely)

OK, I'm not going dive into this setup spec shit partially because I don't know the full set-up (Don't play many closed games). But unless there's a role-cop, then most any investigate role we could have would be incriminating me and that defeats the very purpose of my claim of not wasting and fucking with the town.....

In terms of me not making it to lylo, all I can say is that I am a miller, and I don't expect this will keep me alive in this game - however, I'm not going to stand around and let people wrongfully accuse me of what simply isn't true.

I'm understanding your read formation right now, my scumread on you is slowly dying.

No

Ok

Moving Matt on less likely town now.

Why would you prompt someone to answer something and then drop it when they refuse?

I'm starting to see this 'downplaying' that Garmr talks about...

>>>

Not sold on Dwlee or Dier town but I can see it.

Lowell, Aero, and FA are town in my eyes. Specifically because 269 looks very much like a town thought process. I can also understand the FA suspicion because in my last game nobody ever suspected her despite her being town. So pressure would be nice, even if I agree with her.

Lowell, what are your thoughts on Garmr?

Hey your just now starting to see why matt is scum god your slow. If matt isn't lynched today and his scum it will be all your fault. I changed my mind you can be town.

I have a feeling at least one scum was on the wagon and one off. They probably waiting for a sucker like you to diffuse it. (You can see my frustration with you right.)


Your missing huge chunks as well look at his personality change as the game progresses it goes from weak and timid and complaint when there is a wagon him to over confident and a asshole. This is him a scum him knowing that the majority of the players won't vote him now after it was pushed to l-2 and was diffused by you.


fuck you can tell his shit at scum look at this

Well you can trust me, I'm a doctor

OK you have to know that everyone's going to notice this comment. It's too obvious for a soft claim or bread crumb and if you're townie then why would you say such a thing? Especially if you were a doctor. This is suspicious.

My title is "Dr. Feelgood" and my avatar is a doctor. If you're setting up a bullshit vote on me spare me with the weird justifications

Also if you really thought this why would you even bring attention to it? You just brought attention to what you believed was a soft claim

Continue with your tunnelvisiony rolefishing and setup spec, it's so fascinating

And for the record, I wasn't crumbing anything.

See what his doing here his fucking trying to bait people into reacting then trying to incriminate them with what he said instead of . As scum he can also be trying to bait out roles.

[Garmr]

You know taly I will never let you live this down once mattp flips scum.

[Garmr]

VC stuff take notice

Will also note that matt p and radja have a interesting relationship.

Most people have noticed radja awkward transition off the matt wagon he got a lot of votes for it

What people haven't noticed is the variety of transitions off the radja wagon. Mattp was originally second on the wagon before it took off. In post he votes radja for taking his vote off him and doesn't really push radja hard giving him some squirming room over his next few posts. Now 194 the wagon is at l-2

Now this is pretty funny because around this time Always innocent unvotes on the thought me and radja are masons then the next post he says never mind yet he never revotes radja or mentions him again.

It's actually around this time the radja wagon is dieing we have opposition to wagon now in the forms of lowell,dwlee not actively but in the fact they are questioning the wagon of radja that matt takes his vote off.

taly has no trouble pushing this wagon to l-2 being a bit of hypocrite in some aspects not that's a scum thing just showing my annoyance at him.

P-edit now this interesting AI switch of reads on radja.

[Garmr]

Now this is pretty funny because around this time Always innocent unvotes on the thought me and radja are masons then the next post he says never mind yet he never revotes radja or mentions him again.

That was a silly misunderstanding on my part. It didn't deserve much attention, because it was simply my own stupidity.

P-edit now this interesting AI switch of reads on radja.

Thank God (or rather, Nature) for the ability to revise my beliefs!

Without pressuring Radja, we would not have modest evidence in favor of him being town. It is only natural to move on at that point. There's nothing wrong with that.

It's actually around this time the radja wagon is dieing we have opposition to wagon now in the forms of lowell,dwlee not actively but in the fact they are questioning the wagon of radja that matt takes his vote off.

So you think Radja is scum and he is being saved, or what?

Not sure on radja tbh There's just a lot of activity between him and mattp wagons was originally thinking radja might be scum but that's got weaker and weaker. Think I picked up on something through and want to see how that plays out.

Still think that there is at least one scum hopping between the two through.

[Garmr]

Ok, going a little at a time, because there's too many pages and too little of an attention span.

I am liking Aero and Dier for town atm. Taly is leaning town, too.

Personally I don't like that matt p dropped a soft claim to doctor earlier considering there probably isn't a doctor in this game.

Wasn't he referring to his avatar?

It felt like he was laying down a fake claim for latter.

I officially think you're bad at mafia

Congrats!

Garmr is actually pretty good at this game, he just gets to where he's going in a different way than most.

@Frozen angel and anyone else looking at matt as scum

-Mattp is scum and I'm glad how you picked up on matts role drop wifom and got a similar thought process than mine.

All the things he quoted in 255.

His trying to say he was trying to bring us out of rvs with his question.

What

about

the things he quoted in 255 are bad? Like, you didn't respond to them, which is whatever, but you can't point to them and say they're scummy if you yourself wouldn't comment on them. Explain what's bad about them.

In general, I think it is best not to mention real or imagined softclaims in the thread.

Unless you think they're bullshit, then it's fine. In my opinion, anyway.

Hey your just now starting to see why matt is scum god your slow. If matt isn't lynched today and his scum it will be all your fault. I changed my mind you can be town.

Ok Garmr, tell me succinctly; why I should be voting mattP, and like a few of your main points on him right now.

To be honest, reading the fight between you and Matt is migrant-inducing, so I need something easier to swallow in order for me to follow along, here.

Ok

with 255 I felt that I answered a majority before or they aren't even relevant to my case. Posting stuff that isn't relevant and side stepping is dodging and is scummy. The problem was with what he was doing sure his saying that it wouldn't effect the game negatively but the point was instead of justifying a reason to ask why he went and played it down as a action that can't hurt instead of one with actual town motive. That in itself is scummy. His original passive response is the problem and how long it actually took for him to actually think up a answer which shows that he made that up and it wasn't his original intention.


quick summary doesn't cover my whole case presented so far but some of it.
-his initial reaction to being questioned and downplay himself it was like he was caught and didn't know how to react.

-His passiveness which turned into aggressiveness once the pressure was off. This means other peoples views influence his behavior which is generally a scummy thing to do. Other behavior show that he is influenced by other people instead of trying to catch scum.

-New one he never has contributed anything to any wagon he is on. He says something like oh you took the easiest path or pretty much no reason at other than saying "I don't like deir."

-The trust me I'm a dr looked deliberate. Seemed like an attempt to bait a reaction out.

-claims that i'm rolefishing ect Has made implied suggestions that my actions are scummy yet town reads me in various bits. Like his trying to push me off him with hidden threats.

-My gut plus a couple other things I am watching him for.



-Brought up by someone else but something I agree on. The fact once I said no I wouldn't answer them he calmly accepted it instead of asking why.

[Garmr]

Taly it is iioa because they are just stating stuff that happened.

Most of my stuff is Analysis that's why my case on mattp took off at the start. I will admit that a lot of the VC stuff in post is more information than Analysis that does have a slight bias towards my thinking when I posted it. But that's because I want people's options on it.
Also your using IIOA extremely wrong.

players who speculate about the setup more than they ask for other players' reasoning and/or accuse other players of being scum are probably group scum".

This is the situation the original creator wanted to use it in.

link here

[Garmr]

I take IIOA literally.
You posted information and not analysis and even admitted dont tell me I am wrong?

You don't even explain a motive or even tried to rule out town motives. The creator meant it to narrow people out who do this constantly you probably just learned the term and still using it in the way it wasn't meant to be used.

In fact You are actually doing it yourself just posting a obvious observation by saying That post is IIOA and not following up with anything. Is just stating information it self.

What i'm trying to say is that it is a information post meant to spark conversation about the wagon which no one has really brought up and so I don't forgot about it latter on when more information is available.


What I'm finding curious is even through you are town reading me you keep jumping in trying to prove I am scum
Trying to say I slipped when I didn't
Saying I haven't accomplished much (that's because people aren't listing because they are stupid and mattp is scum I can't control how bad others reads are.)
Then trying to push a information post as scummy with no reasoning.

It makes me thing you are scum.

Also you have contributed very little to this game with 44 posts most of them are junk.


VOTE: Dwlee

[Garmr]

I've liked some of garmr's earlier posts

but that post didn't feel like he accomplished much.
I don't approve of the dier vote.

Implied you thought I was townish at one point by saying you liked. If you didn't think I was town at all what's the point of mentioning it unless you just want to look like you had a opinion on me.

[Garmr]

I'd say 31-33 posts of dwlees are just utter one liner trash and I don't think I have seen one post being a commitment to his read.

[Garmr]

Id say the 9-7 posts don't show any signs of scum hunting either and look more like opportunistic to me.

[Garmr]

You are using present tense for me tkwn reading you which obviously isnt the case. And oneliners are my playstyle.

What so you admit that you have provided pretty much contentless posts ok then.

[Garmr]

@Mathida

Who is Mafia?

Honestly I don't really know. I'm sort of hanging back and trying to see if anything rings my scumdar but not much is. But I can give you my feels at the present moment.

MattP and Garmr are interesting to me though. I am not familiar with MattP but he seems rather cocky, which can be read as being defensive. Garmr is burrowing into him like an African parasite but is that because Garmr is town and is also suspicious of him or is it because he's a scum buddy distancing himself from MattP? I have played with Garmr before and I don't remember him like this. He was scum in Mini 1741 but the whole game was a mess with one scum outing all his buddies and the game should have been scrapped rather than played out. So it's no wonder that Garmr was less active in that game. Overall though I am getting a town vibe from Garmr.

So the only one I'm happy voting for at the moment is MattP. In fact, I think I'll do that right now.

VOTE: MattP

I'm happy with a mattp lynch as well or dwlee

VOTE: mattp

[Garmr]

matt p shows survivorlistic traits I think his probably the sk with that claim don't care through mafia should deal with him. I refuse to accept him as town.

UNVOTE: mattp

[Garmr]

matt p shows survivorlistic traits I think his probably the sk with that claim don't care through mafia should deal with him. I refuse to accept him as town.

UNVOTE: mattp

It makes me feel so good to know I could vig you

Not that I will

But man it feels so sweet

You can if you want to I don't really care to much because you'll just end up chocking on those words as much as Pamela Anderson chokes on coc coc cocktails

[Garmr]

Hey Garmr, mb you should vote someone

I think dwlee was the scummiest slot but I know ds pretty well so I going to watch him carefully. Tbh I haven't looked at dier and his wagon at all since I been focused on what jumped out to me as scummy.

[Garmr]

I think dwlee was the scummiest slot but I know ds pretty well so I going to watch him carefully. Tbh I haven't looked at dier and his wagon at all since I been focused on what jumped out to me as scummy.

Can you explain why you are scum reading my slot?

1. First off dwlee has contributed little to the game yet very active and engaging with people. What I'm saying is he is talking and not hunting in a majority of his posts.

2. He is extremely jumpy with me. It looks like he was trying to find a reason to vote/make me look bad me like saying the white knighting thing,the iioa incident ect.

3 When he was talking about iioa. I explained why he was using it wrong and How it was supposed to be used when a majority of posts are that way. His response didn't want to let it go and said he was using it on a individualistic bases. I then asked him why he thought that instance was scummy and what would the scummy objective behind it. He never stated a reason and flat out ignored it.

4. I pointed out a post were he implied I was town earlier game when he mentioned where did I ever say I was town. he said but that's in the past. Despite it being exactly when he accused me of iioa.

5 Tried to push not having a impact as scummy thing instead of town not agreeing with me. Acting like I have control over others.

6 Trying to push a scummy veil over me despite not ever saying he scummed read me and not admitting to it when I was pushing for his read on me. (you think he would say that when I said I thought you were town reading me)

7 Actually downplaying his skills a noob scums mistake

Idk taly.

I am super bad at scum hunting.

@mattp
Look you are either a sk or a vig and I am starting to feel like mykonian. I don't want to be like mykonian being focused on one player the whole game (me) and pretty much fucking the whole game up because they can't stop focusing that one player (his reason was the language I used TBH To be honest).

[Garmr]

Garmr, I would have been willing this whole time to have productive discussion with you. Since you agree I'm not scum, it's logical to look at associative of how people responded to your push on me

I think determine radja alignment would help a lot with this. If he is town then 1 or 2 scum may of shifted from your wagon onto his.

Abr feels like town to me from my experiences with him.

Mahilda feels like scum
comparing this game to mini day 3 she plays a lot different. The way she handles her votes in that game were more care free and less cautious. The information she produced was also better quality and her opions were pushed more by her. Even through a lot of people scum read her she handled the pressure well.
=26392]here is the game

VOTE: mathilda

I'm not to sure on taly at the moment. The miller claim is pro town. But something about her makes my stomach churn.

[Garmr]

I got a scenario in my head of a potential scum slip from this page. But the person in question is a town read and if it isn't a slip I would feel bad for casting doubt over the slot.

[Garmr]

Well I got prodded guess it's getting stale we should all be picking between Mathilda or Deir if things remain stale.

[Garmr]

Don't like ironp suggestion about leaving Mathilda to shoot we should lynch her today and if she flips scum look closer into iron.

[Garmr]

Don't like ironp suggestion about leaving Mathilda to shoot we should lynch her today and if she flips scum look closer into iron.

If I am scum with Mathilda, why on earth am I suggesting to have her shot?

Tons of reasons 1 is distance. Another is scum may have a way around a vig shot but not a lynch.


I can think of more but the real question is why would a townie be worried about the difference between a shoot and a lynch rather a townie would compromise and ask that his scum read be shot of ask at all

Also why ask for à town read to be shot

I'm up for lynching iron first

Scum is probably in màhilda or deir

[Garmr]

VOTE: iron

[Garmr]

FA is still slipping scum. You call her out and promise to re read her and then you do nothing.

I was deciding if it was or not decided it wasn't

[Garmr]

So, this leads us back to Dierfire, Mathilda and Dwlee/Firebringer.

What about ironp what do u think of him.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Mathilda
Iron tommorow since won't get today

[Garmr]

VOTE: Mathilda
Iron tommorow since won't get today

Bad Gamr, bad.

I think your slots scum dazzle me

[Garmr]

Roleclaim mathilda please.

[Garmr]

unvote

We have 3 days this isn't the time to be pulling this shit.

[Garmr]

Read List D1 V2

Frozen Angel

Lowell

Radja

Mathilda

Dwlee99

Dierfire

Albert B. Rampage

Garmr

Aeronaut

MattP

Taly

iraonavp

AlwaysInnocent

I pretty much agree with all your reds and orange and yellows I would put them all in scum. But some of the people you are town reading I would put in null.

[Garmr]

Garmr, which people are null, according to you?

lowell
aero
radja would be null

you would also be a null-town on my list so I guess light green.

[Garmr]

Well I'm interested in how the flip will be. Noticing how after Mathilda was lynched that people are withdrawing the town reads on me to a leeser cough frozen. Which I find interesting. Could be knowledge of what mathilda will flip and they are prepping for the next day.


@frozen I am happy talking about the dwelee fire slot.

[Garmr]

Well I said I like to intract with you more. You were hellish active before matt claim but just suddenly deactivated afterward.

@frozen I am happy talking about the dwelee fire slot.

well His reaction after my Vote is what I think He actually slipped there, It was like he got shocked - hanged how he could confess to such a thing .

whats your give on them?

i don't really think that's a slip but I read fire bringer as scum anyway. Since his got here he hasn't really made a case or taken a strong stance on anyone. I would expect a town firebringer to at least skitz over someone and push a lynch.

I love you fire but you rolled scum sorry.

[Garmr]

Stolen

[Garmr]

Damn thought that would be page top

[Garmr]

Sigh matt I told you iron was the better shot.

[Garmr]

If someone had the ability to neighbourize multiple people would you consider that person scum or town considering we had a cop flip with a vig. Because me and matt were drawn into a neighbour hood and some one else.

[Garmr]

A. Not true. I do try to explain my reads. Sometimes I present my list before my reasons, but that is just a new (town) tactic I am trying out in several games.
B. Um. If necessary, I try to bring "something new to the table", but in this case it seems you agree with me. So what's the problem?
C. This is basically a repetition of A. What do you mean by "not fluid", though?

Everything here was talked about more indepth in my first post which you so easily brushed off and never challenged any part of it.

@Fire, burden of proof that he's guilty lies on you, not me to prove his innocence. Show ME what makes him guilty here.

Don't like this attitude.
People should be able to support there thought process. If your calling fire bad for saying someone is scum yet you can't prove why they are innocent and dodge it in this way that implies you have knowledge of who is scum and who isn't.

[Garmr]

Oh ok. Still it should be easy to say why you think his town. I mean you are obviously town reading him.

[Garmr]

so like no one is interested in the fact I have day chat now with a potential scum power role ok then.

[Garmr]

so like no one is interested in the fact I have day chat now with a potential scum power role ok then.

You're saying someone neighborized you and Matt, and you now have daychat with that player? Or was there a hood already that you got added to?
How would you know that Matt became a member? Is that based solely on what the other neighbor told you?

We got added all of us abr was supposed to have joined us as well but something blocked him from entering according to the person who made it.


Also I'm not saying anything about the person for a reason.

[Garmr]

Well at this point of the game I'm lost I can see two sides starting to form and I don't know which side has the most scum on it.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Firebringer

I'm sorry but you are scum this time.

Would also like to mention that when dwlee replaced out he signed up for another game. Which makes me believe it was a tactical replace out.

I also really don't trust aj the epic for some reason.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Firebringer

I'm sorry but you are scum this time.

Would also like to mention that when dwlee replaced out he signed up for another game. Which makes me believe it was a tactical replace out.

I also really don't trust aj the epic for some reason.

I honestly think you are misguided here Garmr, and think you probably are town, I don't really care what dwlee did before in this game. Talk to me.

Get a read from me.

Do you think I am truly scum?

From you alone I don't get a scum read but dwlee man was extremely scummy I can't shake the scum off.

[Garmr]

I also really don't trust aj the epic for some reason.

I'm not going to let you be the biggest shade thrower in the game and get away with this. You need reasons to have permission for this. Completely unacceptable to go "Yeah invalidate his opinion, I don't trust him 'for some reason'."

I'm not the only one getting that vibe from you. Matt P before he died did as well these were his scum reads


Lowell
Radja Aj the Epic
Albert B. Rampage
Taly Davesaz
iraonavp
AlwaysInnocent

he said 3 out of these 6 were guaranteed scum. I think they were orded as well not sure about ordered bit through if so you were that close to being shot last night.

[Garmr]

Stolen jokes

[Garmr]

But in all serious ness page top is a illusion

[Garmr]

But in all serious ness page top is a illusion

The page top is just an illusion......Am I real Garmr?

Is this site real?

OMG I AM FREAKING OUT!!!

Your not real

[Garmr]

Aj all my posts are better than yours.

[Garmr]

Aj is getting to worked up on how he perceived means he is most likely scum. I mean his scum game is pretty low grade and amateurish but his probably scum.

[Garmr]

Good luck with trying to get a lynch off on me

[Garmr]

I don't know under what world's rules you think yourself unlynchable.

Let face it I'm the most obvious town in this game.

[Garmr]

If we have a even night cop I would suggest aero who is some sort of neighbourizer.

[Garmr]

Wishful thinking abr wishful thinking.

[Garmr]

Well I'm the 1 shot bullet proof body guard. Looks like I have no targets to protect so yeh.

[Garmr]

Even night makes perfect sense since it forces me to split my protects

[Garmr]

Shame mattp claimed big he screwed up all my plans I was drawing the night kill day 1 by confirming there was no Dr.

[Garmr]

Gamr what did you do last night?

Nothing I told aero I would protect him but forgot to put in the action.

[Garmr]

Uh well I'm pretty sure Aeronaut is the neighborizer like I said yesterday. Garmr claimed bodyguard. One of them has to be lying.

Neither of us our lying about our roles. Aeronaut may be lying about his alignment but not his role.

Like I said day 1 there is no drs in this game just me the 1 shot bullet proof bodyguard. Also if you couldn't tell by dwlee attempt to make me look bad or firebringers friendly attitude (through we are on pretty good terms with each other) that I'm town I would say one is inept.

I also think scum shooting iron is more protown than scum.

[Garmr]

Also I find it curious when I mention Iron weird behavior around dragonspawns death in the neighbor hood.

(also the reason why irons death is protown is because it gives a lot of information and things to think about.)

[Garmr]

ascetic can't be targeted by any actions. It's even better than my bullet proof modifier.

[Garmr]

VOTE: abr

I agree with his role being scum. Who would put a miller and a ascetic on the same team.

[Garmr]

Let's end this day

[Garmr]

How detached you are makes me think that I could be wrong about Aero and it's you. The only thing that doesn't make sense is for scum to admit that they "forgot to send an action" though. That's all that is saving you from being my #1 scumread. If you have any ounce of pro-town in you you're going to turn this ship around and lynch Aeronaut when push comes to shove.

If you that's the only thing that's holding you back from scum reading me I would think your emotional and using emotions to guide your scum read becuase it's pretty obvious I am town. Since I don't remember your reads swayed by your emotions and i also remember you being a better scum hunter and not subpar when push comes to shove. I know you picked up a shit habit of pushing less so your insignificant for either alignment. Everything points to you being scum.

[Garmr]

I'm 1 shot bulletproof aero is confirmed town.

rc

tell them what you told me how the bullet modifier works on a bp
VOTE: frozen.

[Garmr]

@AlwaysInnocent

I'm just about out of patience with this. Why is your vote always on Town wagons and never on Mafia wagons? Do I need to rethink my read on you?

@Frozen

Now that Garmr claimed his result, which player do you think that we should lynch and why?

@Garmr

I feel like we shouldn't lynch the player that cast the hammer vote on both Mafia wagons, but I also feel like we're up far enough that we can afford an incorrect lynch. What's this about the Bulletproof modifier?

Now my bullet proof modifier is gone I can die but anyway aero is going to live now he won't die soon.

I also have my case on frozen in the thread I don't know if I am able to copy a case from another thread word by word but i'm feeling lazy.

[Garmr]

But I think the most likely last scum is frozen.

I think bringing frozen in here was a mistake through I see her as more likely scum than innocent at the moment. Her day 1 interaction with Abr around the slip is suspicious. Abr over reacted to it. Not to mention the fact when I mentioned the slip abr knew what I was talking about straight away.

To show the slip again and explain it here it is.

this is so damn manipulative ABR. I only have 1 shared game with you and I failed reading you as scum. you wagoned your teammate since day 1. your not doing that here but How can i know How you usually play your scum games?!

the slip here is she knows that abr isn't bussing radja. Also the fact that abrs reaction was weird to her reads list about not being higher is weird. it's like he was worried that if both flip scum they might pin that abr and fire were so close together on it

Frozen read list went more like this

AI
Garmr
Mattp
Taly

lowell
Aero

ABR

iraon

FB

Dire
Mathilda
Radja

So firebringer was pretty high on the list. Compared to dire mathilda and radja being on the bottom. But we will get to the fire part latter. Whats important is that abr was concerned on where he was placed on frozens lists and not others.

Abr also was pushing the slip but directing it at me only and didn't seem to be trying to convince others. I was iffy about the slip when I spotted it becuase I town read frozen at the time. Abrs reaction to people not voting frozen was shock. Which makes me think scum buddy.

He eventually let this slip die down just mentioning the suspicion but went for davesaz the next day.

There's more reasons why I think frozen is scum from reading her iso like her voting pattern ect but yeh.

basically this is it.

[Garmr]

and this was my answer in thread wich he never answered me after :

1 - siriously ..... I said I don't see the same attitude coming from ABR then. I wasn't sure about it.

2 - That read list was before FB scum claim who should I knew that FB is the scum then?! I'm not a super saint

3 - ABR stated he is scum reading me in day 2. like 3 or 4 times ... wtf are you talking about?

I'm town. I was the one who were asking a vig shot on FB day 1. I was the one who hammered FB without hesitation. and I was pushing ABR lynch.

Busy with my GF so i didn't post a response.

1-what does this even mean. That's nothing to do with the point.

2-I noticed how close FB and abr were. Doesn't matter were it was. Tbh that wasn't even someting I would call a slip yet you made a big deal out of it just liek abr made a big deal out of you. See the connection.

3. He stated but never followed up if he was going for a mislynch he would of pushed it which makes me feel like it was a bus.

4 Saying i'm town because I called for a fb shot doesn't make you town. Do you think that mattp was going to listen to you after declaring he would make his own choices.

5. I think it's beyond your skill level to guess who all the scum are day 1 follow it through. Also add the fact you did not get shot even when you seem like obvious town to everyone else and had all these correct reads.

6.No hesitation on the hammers make me feel like your scum even more since you pretty much know what his going to flip. You didn't let him role claim and could of potentially silenced him.

[Garmr]

and this was my answer in thread wich he never answered me after :

1 - siriously ..... I said I don't see the same attitude coming from ABR then. I wasn't sure about it.

2 - That read list was before FB scum claim who should I knew that FB is the scum then?! I'm not a super saint

3 - ABR stated he is scum reading me in day 2. like 3 or 4 times ... wtf are you talking about?

I'm town. I was the one who were asking a vig shot on FB day 1. I was the one who hammered FB without hesitation. and I was pushing ABR lynch.

Busy with my GF so i didn't post a response.

1-what does this even mean. That's nothing to do with the point.

2-I noticed how close FB and abr were. Doesn't matter were it was. Tbh that wasn't even someting I would call a slip yet you made a big deal out of it just liek abr made a big deal out of you. See the connection.

3. He stated but never followed up if he was going for a mislynch he would of pushed it which makes me feel like it was a bus.

4 Saying i'm town because I called for a fb shot doesn't make you town. Do you think that mattp was going to listen to you after declaring he would make his own choices.

5. I think it's beyond your skill level to guess who all the scum are day 1 follow it through. Also add the fact you did not get shot even when you seem like obvious town to everyone else and had all these correct reads.

6.No hesitation on the hammers make me feel like your scum even more since you pretty much know what his going to flip. You didn't let him role claim and could of potentially silenced him.

First From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that

I have a Husband!

see your not the only one who has RL.

1 - the point was why I thought ABR wasn't bussing anyone. I never said that. in game http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64408 ABR bussed his partner sinsce the start of day 1. I said I didn't see that yet - becuase I never try to see the intractions in day 1, thats a useless shit in my eyes . for confirmation read my posts about it in this game : http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=64753

2 - ABR tried to frame me in day 1. your posts contradict each other. once you say ABR was bussing me and trying hard to frame me then you say he completly dropped my case later on. both are false. ABR was trying to show himself super active or something and wanted to frame me for later lynches.

3 - see! you just contradicted your point 2. ABR never drop his bussing attemps in his scum games for the record. Go read his meta - I did that.

4 - I was pushing an FB lynch in day 1 and called he is definetly scum becuase of his reaction to me. what the fuck is wrong with you. ok don't call me town for it. that make me scum?

5 - I take this as an insult

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=64429 found and lynched mage in day 1
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=64520 found the scum in day 1 - lynched her in day 2
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=64215 found the scum as soon as I replaced in. won without a mislynch
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=64753 lynched scum recruiter in day 1 - took the bullet in night and vengkilled the other one in night 1
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=110&t=64831 found all the scum in day 2

Fuck off mate

6 - I won't hesitate to hammer scums. deal with it

Well good for you but I have been busy since my gf lives in sydney but came to where I live it's a long distance for a year till we move in together. So I been spending what little time we have together together. The fact you have a husband is none of my concern your real life doesn't impact mine freezie.

1. you said he wasn't bussing anyone yet abr was pushing radja who was also your scum read. The point of it was he overreacted to you knowing he wasn't bussing. I don't think he would overreact that way to a town member.

2.It's not called frame it's called bus. When he realized that no one really saw it as a mistake he dropped it and keeped a low profile about you being scummy. Never making a case after it.

3.No I didn't if he was going for a mislynch he would of pushed it more. This means he saw that I pointed out a potential slip knew what I was talking about straight away. Then when others didn't latch on to it backed off. If you were town he could of said he over reacted and put you in a town list to match everyone else instead he put you in his scum list.

4.Bussing is a thing.

5. Don't take it as a insult becuase I didn't mean it that way. Some of the games have other circumstances. But even through you did well in some games. I don't think anyone is at that level with out luck and lets look at your case on fire. It was the fact he he said he replaced dwlee scum slot that wasn't a slip that was a so what. Your cases on the players were lacking. Through I can give you abr since he got killed based on his role.

7 Once I accused you of scum you cried that I was possible scum in the qt pretending to be emotional to try and push a scum read on me is stupid. Now you are trying to say I'm possible scum doing a gambit because I'm scum reading you. That's pretty scummy.

[Garmr]

That's how I play mafia

I find scums

what did you do in this whole game so far?

I lynched scum I found dwlee/fb as scum before you even considered fire bringer as scum so don't act like it was you who got him lynched. Abr wasn't nailed by you either it was nailed by the fact he was ascetic pretty much everyone town read him before the role claims..

and now I'm nailing the last scum in you. Also I got aero confirmed as town.

So what have I done all game more than you.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Garmr

this is the last scum

after rereading his ISO I have no doubt about it

Pretending to use emotional reasoning to change your vote to me. Is scummy as fuck.

[Garmr]

You basically did nothing in day 1 beside arguing with Mattp - pushing dwlee to talk - Bussying?! yes! *just like you* - holding middleground in everything else and making sure mathilda will get lynched over FB

what was your day 2 ? nothing till the hammer. FB claimed even night cop and you suddenly claimed a bp bodyguard. coincidence? no - this might be a scum plan.

it totally make sense for the gambit you just made today. that claim gave you ez town cred

what you did in day 3? tried to attack aero a bit - then you shield up. then ABR attacked Aero - you said You look like town - you were planning on the gambit? I think yes

"I forgot to submit a night action" in night 2 .... yeah you wanted to hold it for the lylo , weren't you?

You just listed things I did day 1 that's a bit hypocritical. I pushed mattp and put myself on the line then came to the conclusion he couldn't be scum because his claim which was hard to admit, you voted mattp then switched to the next biggest wagon.

Pushed dwlee as scum before you and actually came up with the process slowly through rationalization. You made some bs slip reason.. Then town came to the two options of deir and mathilda and I picked mathilda over deir. Scum like to rest there vote on scum buddies when they know they won't be lynched.

[Garmr]

Wow way to twist everything to try and make me look scummy fine then lynch me then pat yourself on the back for getting a mislynch on obvious town. But if your town wallow min the fact your a emotional tantrum ruins games and you should learn not to be such a crybaby.

[Garmr]

1.You saying I'm offended proves otherwise
2.no you are not.
3.No you are the last scum
4.no you having a tantrum since I caught you so easily and your team mates where easy to find. Your meta means fuck all to me.
5I'm town.

[Garmr]

It's funny because your trying to spin it as scummy becuase I dared thought you were scum. lol

1.it does and talking about my case instead of trying to address it with logic you used fallacy and tried to attack me.
2.No you aren't
3.no point in going you are no you are again.
4.Grow up then your not a kid.
5.Lol.

[Garmr]

Lol is laugh out loud laughing at the fact your trying to mislynch the obvious town.

[Garmr]

Ok lets get started with you accusing me of being buddies with fire. Me and fire tend to town read each other when we start games with each other. His my friend on site frozen the key word is friend something you wouldn't understand because you are the ice queen and you can see our friendship in other games. I acknowledge this fact makes me less likely to want to lynch him and is a flaw of mine.

Also you point out where I'm uncertain of dwlee but not the fact he was trying to make a bs reason to lynch me. I take my time to observe him and let him do what I want. Why would scum dwlee try to find a way to lynch me and firebringer do a 360 and try to buddy me if I was scum with them.



fact you missed because your not very good or just biased
I claimed there was no dr since the start of the game in the day phase. I also claimed a protective role night 1 in the qt aero set up and said I don't fear mafia shooting me. This was not a spur of the moment plan with firebringer involved it was a ffs moment since I believed him.

What's the point of it when it's obviously a rvs. It like saying I like red that's why i will vote this person who likes gold then someone ask why would you do that.
What response were you expecting from the rvs?

Also why trying to push that it isn't bad to do instead of it isn't scummy that's a strange angle to come from?

I don't think it's common sense that it's RVS for a player to quote a player's rxn to a vote and then wagon that player? People rationalize things as small as an emoticon reaction for a vote. Even if it's a low-stakes beginning-of-day-1 vote with weak reasoning people still justify reads with weak reasoning early on to move RVS along and it's not foul play to engage that sort of vote to continue a dialogue

Well it's first page, I said lets wagon him and there was no case on aero thus it's obvious to see it's a rvs wagon. Also I think Dwlee would of said something if his vote was serious. It's more the fact you were trying to push yourself as harmless instead of trying to dismiss my position as weak.

hard defending Dwlee

How is this hard defending dwlee this is me thinking mattp is scum dwlee wouldn't need hard defending and anyone who knows my scum game knows I don't do hard defending with buddies.

Whiteknighting is generally when scum defends a townie for town cred. I guess I misunderstood you.

It's fine just i have dealt with to many situations like this in the past were people focus on my wording instead of what I'm actually trying to say. Sorry I got agitated.

making a push on partner - taking back soon

Was actually annoyed that someone would try to misrep what I said. Was unsure if he was town or scum at this point this is where I decided to back off and keep an eye on him and leave him to his own devices.

I take IIOA literally.
You posted information and not analysis and even admitted dont tell me I am wrong?

You don't even explain a motive or even tried to rule out town motives. The creator meant it to narrow people out who do this constantly you probably just learned the term and still using it in the way it wasn't meant to be used.

In fact You are actually doing it yourself just posting a obvious observation by saying That post is IIOA and not following up with anything. Is just stating information it self.

What i'm trying to say is that it is a information post meant to spark conversation about the wagon which no one has really brought up and so I don't forgot about it latter on when more information is available.


What I'm finding curious is even through you are town reading me you keep jumping in trying to prove I am scum
Trying to say I slipped when I didn't
Saying I haven't accomplished much (that's because people aren't listing because they are stupid and mattp is scum I can't control how bad others reads are.)
Then trying to push a information post as scummy with no reasoning.

It makes me thing you are scum.

Also you have contributed very little to this game with 44 posts most of them are junk.


VOTE: Dwlee

you can't control him in scum pt - so lets be the first one who busses him!

Ok so you admit scum have a day pt us town didn't know that thanks for the slip. Also not what happened trying to twist a story like this is pathetic. I actually have pushed dwlee unlike you who didn't even push fire only claiming he slipped.

Garmr, I would have been willing this whole time to have productive discussion with you. Since you agree I'm not scum, it's logical to look at associative of how people responded to your push on me

I think determine radja alignment would help a lot with this. If he is town then 1 or 2 scum may of shifted from your wagon onto his.

Abr feels like town to me from my experiences with him.

Mahilda feels like scum
comparing this game to mini day 3 she plays a lot different. The way she handles her votes in that game were more care free and less cautious. The information she produced was also better quality and her opions were pushed more by her. Even through a lot of people scum read her she handled the pressure well.
=26392]here is the game

VOTE: mathilda

I'm not to sure on taly at the moment. The miller claim is pro town. But something about her makes my stomach churn.

Now its Mathilda - yes everyone is going on him - yeees! we can lynch a town member!

i

n scum pt : Garmr : FB you have another day to back it up

.

Nice slip again you just shown us scum have day talk twice. Also nothing in these posts show any reasoning as to why I would be scum showing that you are more concerned with trying to make me look scummy than rather try to use facts pretty nooby scum stuff.

[Garmr]

I'd say 31-33 posts of dwlees are just utter one liner trash and I don't think I have seen one post being a commitment to his read.

trying to show its a policy lynch not a scum lynch[/quote]

Pathetic I never said it was a policy lynch you are obvious scum twisting things.

You are using present tense for me tkwn reading you which obviously isnt the case. And oneliners are my playstyle.

What so you admit that you have provided pretty much contentless posts ok then.

chatting with teammate trying to show its a policy lynch ...

Again never said it was policy you are writing your own scum narrative.

@Mathida

Who is Mafia?

Honestly I don't really know. I'm sort of hanging back and trying to see if anything rings my scumdar but not much is. But I can give you my feels at the present moment.

MattP and Garmr are interesting to me though. I am not familiar with MattP but he seems rather cocky, which can be read as being defensive. Garmr is burrowing into him like an African parasite but is that because Garmr is town and is also suspicious of him or is it because he's a scum buddy distancing himself from MattP? I have played with Garmr before and I don't remember him like this. He was scum in Mini 1741 but the whole game was a mess with one scum outing all his buddies and the game should have been scrapped rather than played out. So it's no wonder that Garmr was less active in that game. Overall though I am getting a town vibe from Garmr.

So the only one I'm happy voting for at the moment is MattP. In fact, I think I'll do that right now.

VOTE: MattP

I'm happy with a mattp lynch as well or dwlee

VOTE: mattp

back to town lynching

Mattp was my number 1 scum read the wagon had just gained more support of course I would jump back on here. You know town doesn't know who is scum or town. But you can because your a filthy disgusting mafioso. That's why you are omgussing now.

[Garmr]

Hey Garmr, mb you should vote someone

I think dwlee was the scummiest slot but I know ds pretty well so I going to watch him carefully. Tbh I haven't looked at dier and his wagon at all since I been focused on what jumped out to me as scummy.

my partner is the scummiest slot classic BUT I'm going with dire carefully ... I want to buss my partner but I prefer to lynch [town?]

I didn't vote deir through since mathilda,iron and dwlee were high on my scum list.

I think dwlee was the scummiest slot but I know ds pretty well so I going to watch him carefully. Tbh I haven't looked at dier and his wagon at all since I been focused on what jumped out to me as scummy.

Can you explain why you are scum reading my slot?

1. First off dwlee has contributed little to the game yet very active and engaging with people. What I'm saying is he is talking and not hunting in a majority of his posts.

2. He is extremely jumpy with me. It looks like he was trying to find a reason to vote/make me look bad me like saying the white knighting thing,the iioa incident ect.

3 When he was talking about iioa. I explained why he was using it wrong and How it was supposed to be used when a majority of posts are that way. His response didn't want to let it go and said he was using it on a individualistic bases. I then asked him why he thought that instance was scummy and what would the scummy objective behind it. He never stated a reason and flat out ignored it.

4. I pointed out a post were he implied I was town earlier game when he mentioned where did I ever say I was town. he said but that's in the past. Despite it being exactly when he accused me of iioa.

5 Tried to push not having a impact as scummy thing instead of town not agreeing with me. Acting like I have control over others.

6 Trying to push a scummy veil over me despite not ever saying he scummed read me and not admitting to it when I was pushing for his read on me. (you think he would say that when I said I thought you were town reading me)

7 Actually downplaying his skills a noob scums mistake

Idk taly.

I am super bad at scum hunting.

@mattp
Look you are either a sk or a vig and I am starting to feel like mykonian. I don't want to be like mykonian being focused on one player the whole game (me) and pretty much fucking the whole game up because they can't stop focusing that one player (his reason was the language I used TBH To be honest).

scum pt :

Garmr : FB please ask why am I scumreading you. I want a really good town cred
FB : sure!
FB : done!
Garmr : Now try to back it up! we're lynching town today

Are you really that bad of the game people replacing in always generate stigma and fire is my friends that effects me to some extent. Also the support for the fire wagon wasn't there. Once you learn how to play the game and see flow and direct You can now which of your scum reads will be lynched for the day frozen. Replacing out and in cuts flow.

[Garmr]

Well I said I like to intract with you more. You were hellish active before matt claim but just suddenly deactivated afterward.

@frozen I am happy talking about the dwelee fire slot.

well His reaction after my Vote is what I think He actually slipped there, It was like he got shocked - hanged how he could confess to such a thing .

whats your give on them?

i don't really think that's a slip but I read fire bringer as scum anyway. Since his got here he hasn't really made a case or taken a strong stance on anyone. I would expect a town firebringer to at least skitz over someone and push a lynch.

I love you fire but you rolled scum sorry.

"That wasn't a slip" "he is scum anyway" "I love you fire but your scum" typical bussying

If you do think that was a slip you are more than worthless he was scum for the dwlee slot through.

[Garmr]

Well at this point of the game I'm lost I can see two sides starting to form and I don't know which side has the most scum on it.

trying to take the middle ground

No I was just pointing out there was two sides and scum were likely on both.

VOTE: Firebringer

I'm sorry but you are scum this time.

Would also like to mention that when dwlee replaced out he signed up for another game. Which makes me believe it was a tactical replace out.

I also really don't trust aj the epic for some reason.

and vote partner

bussying

Lol pretty much pointing and saying I am partners mean jack shit even a monkey can point.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Firebringer

I'm sorry but you are scum this time.

Would also like to mention that when dwlee replaced out he signed up for another game. Which makes me believe it was a tactical replace out.

I also really don't trust aj the epic for some reason.

I honestly think you are misguided here Garmr, and think you probably are town, I don't really care what dwlee did before in this game. Talk to me.

Get a read from me.

Do you think I am truly scum?

From you alone I don't get a scum read but dwlee man was extremely scummy I can't shake the scum off.

you know dwlee can't answer this. You can't get scum readed for voting partner based on your interactions with someone not in the game... yeah - bussing

Pathetic you can't even explain your reasoning to as why this is scummy it's like you can't even play mafia and all you do is use your emotions to try and prove someone as scum. No logic at all it's liek you don't have the power to do that.

[Garmr]

I claimed there was no dr since the start of the game in the day phase. I also claimed a protective role night 1 in the qt aero set up and said I don't fear mafia shooting me. This was not a spur of the moment plan with firebringer involved it was a ffs moment since I believed him.

I wan't in qt

is this correct?

Town don't get access to scum qts unlike you.

[Garmr]

How is this hard defending dwlee this is me thinking mattp is scum dwlee wouldn't need hard defending and anyone who knows my scum game knows I don't do hard defending with buddies.

Yeah I saw how you attacked him in the next post you mentioned him

Then you realize that I wasn't defending dwlee and attacking matt p on his weird approach which I thought was scummy making your point entirely worthless. Do you think before you post.

[Garmr]

I'm going paragraph after paragraph :

Ok lets get started with you accusing me of being buddies with fire. Me and fire tend to town read each other when we start games with each other. His my friend on site frozen the key word is friend something you wouldn't understand because you are the ice queen and you can see our friendship in other games. I acknowledge this fact makes me less likely to want to lynch him and is a flaw of mine.

Also you point out where I'm uncertain of dwlee but not the fact he was trying to make a bs reason to lynch me. I take my time to observe him and let him do what I want. Why would scum dwlee try to find a way to lynch me and firebringer do a 360 and try to buddy me if I was scum with them.

1 - I don't care youre friend with fire or not. I'm not scumreading you based on your friendship. I'm scumreading you becuase I feel you were bussing him. "You and him starting to town read each other" and " we are friend frozen" means nothing. if thats the case never play with FB becuase he can be scum and you might miss it becuase "makes me less likely to want to lynch him" . in this game I think you were buddies and this is not the case at all.

2 - dwlee had a very bad start. I guess you tried to attack each other to look distant if anyone of you died. and when FB came you found an opportunity to avoid lynching your friend in day 1 - you delayed it by pressuring other people after replace out and by not showing your self distant from FB you kept the opportunity of bussing in day 1.

1.Tell me why you think I'm bussing him I explained my behaviour around him and how I handle fire instead you discard that and try to push on.
2.Not what happened. Already explained why in point 1. Pretty much all of this is a narrative you wrote and there are plenty of other explanations to why I behave in the way I do.

You have no reason to actually vote firebringer you went on a bus after a fake scum slip from him you never explained why fire and albert behaved that way around you instead you focus on a full on offensive on me.

They say the best defense is a good offense

[Garmr]

Mattp was my number 1 scum read the wagon had just gained more support of course I would jump back on here. You know town doesn't know who is scum or town. But you can because your a filthy disgusting mafioso. That's why you are omgussing now.

I know how town think. I don't think you are town.

I didn't know matt was town. look how I attacked him when he vig claimed . look at the post I voted mathilda...

But I think you knew they were town.

You need to learn how to play if you think all people think alike as town in mafia.

I didn't know mattp was town either so why is good for you to think he was scum and not good for me who actually made a real case. Something you pretty much lack day 1.

[Garmr]

Pathetic I never said it was a policy lynch you are obvious scum twisting things.

trash != scummy

no content != scummy

although you were pushing him you were careful to show him as scum

depends on the person I believed dwlee was scummy for these reasons and the way he was behaving I know dwlee could do better as town. I had other reasoning to why dwlee was scum which you opted. Making a narritive again frozen this is a game where you make educated guesses not write a story.

[Garmr]

How is this hard defending dwlee this is me thinking mattp is scum dwlee wouldn't need hard defending and anyone who knows my scum game knows I don't do hard defending with buddies.

Yeah I saw how you attacked him in the next post you mentioned him

Then you realize that I wasn't defending dwlee and attacking matt p on his weird approach which I thought was scummy making your point entirely worthless. Do you think before you post.

you was doing both by answering for dwlee

I wasn't answering for dwlee at all. If you got that out of that then there's no hope for you.

[Garmr]

Nice slip again you just shown us scum have day talk twice. Also nothing in these posts show any reasoning as to why I would be scum showing that you are more concerned with trying to make me look scummy than rather try to use facts pretty nooby scum stuff.

I'm using the facts

your scum

and I guess there is a day scum pt. that explains all your action

again stop misrepresenting me

Facts what facts there are no facts in your cases just weak pathetic emotional pleys.
Your trying to shift something I caught you out on back on me. You slipped it's ok it happens to the best of us.

Also don't use that victim complex it's annoying.

[Garmr]

Are you really that bad of the game people replacing in always generate stigma and fire is my friends that effects me to some extent. Also the support for the fire wagon wasn't there. Once you learn how to play the game and see flow and direct You can now which of your scum reads will be lynched for the day frozen. Replacing out and in cuts flow.

1 - I'm not bad of the game.
2 - stop telling I'm bad of the game to descredit me and my case against you. I can't be bad of the game and mafia in your mind. this just show your more your alignment
3 - your kidding me right? you just dropped the case becuase the support wasn't there? you really want me to believe that?

pedit : I know people think in different ways. whats this going to do with the case on you? stop "advicing" me. I know how should I play mafia. I know how to catch scum I did that before. I'm doing it now.

I made tones of real cases in day 1. don't even dare to misrepresent me

pedit 2 : I'm dead you know? there are no hope for me at all

1 I'm obvious town and your pushing me so you obviously are as scum you bit off more than you can chew as town you failed miserably to scum hunt.
2.Stop trying to use emotional cases and present a valid reasonign instead of newbie things like labeling things scummy with out showing a scum thought process or trying to use emotional appeal to your case.
3. Tell me who else would of jumped on fire that day?

you are really not lol.

well sorry for your loss

[Garmr]

If you do think that was a slip you are more than worthless he was scum for the dwlee slot through.

My being "more than a worthless" won all those games in day 1 and day 2. I know whats a real slip and whats not and that was

I'm reporting this btw

more than a worthless is out of line.

I won games day 1 and day 2 before as well so what.

describing you game play as more than worthless is not attacking you personally.


pedit
I thought you were joking about the dying stuff.

[Garmr]

And I wasn't attacking the dying stuff either or telling you to go die. You made it into that btw.

[Garmr]

Sigh this why I dislike this site sometimes and some of the people on it. I wasn't attacking you personally just your gameplay. You made it into something personal Your conclusion is worthless since I am town this not a personal attack. You jumped to this conclusion.


You said you were dead. I played the mlg music in sarcasm since you can't be literally dead. Then you go "I died once you offended me." This is just trying to bait someone so you can play victim.


I'm not attacking your personality. I hate the fact you are trying to use emotion in your game play to try and influence the way you want is what bugs me. I want you to leave it out so I can play the god damn game with out dramas. The fact you are proud of it is something else.

[Garmr]

I am sorry if I offended you through just yeh.

[Garmr]

Look I think you are scum it's what I believe and I wasn't/still aren't satisfied in your reasoning why you aren't scum. The fact you turned around and pushed me for being scum makes me feel like you are scum. I do believe that the emotion was real but it can come from either alignment. I have been in this situation before with pirate mollie and that ended badly shattering our friendship. Even through I was wrong that time I feel like I am right this time.

I feel like I'm obvious town because I am town and there are things I would even pick up on which are through the thread which makes me obvious town. There are reason why I can't be partners with either.

[Garmr]

My push on you has no relation yuo your push on me.

Your not obv town in my mind. Your an obvious scu in my mind. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something

and your pressuring burden of proof here : "I'm obv town" "I can't be partner with either." these things make no sense to me.In my idea what FB and you did there was a theatrical show and I think you were bussing both FB and ABR .

your case on me was you can't be this lucky to guess to scum. I think Its not in your skill level so you were bussing them. this pisses me off.This is ridiculously pissing me off. You can't discredit my play like this. I can find scum. I've proven that.

Your acting like my whole case is on you being bad. I didn't think you were that experienced with my experiences with you with you being a average player. A average player doesn't nab scum 100% of the time please don't try to push that as 100% of my case. You can consider this point mute personally if you want to.

Your idea makes no sense.
1.It reliases on me setting it up on the spot with fire but I hinted at the role since day 1.
2. it contradicts with abrs role if I was scum then I would fake claim a role that doesn't contradict with his role. I also would of known why abr couldn't be targeted when aero targeted him. I made him
3. Abr was trying to pick out of me and aero who to push you could see who he was trying to choose.
4. Why would i fake a protection on aero when I could easily kill him earlier to stop him from using his ability. I also confirmed him as town now and if i shoot him with out dying I would look suspicious.
5.1 shot Bullet proof body guard is a weird role to claim as scum there are better roles. Also how would scum know if there was a protective role or not? it's a role full of risks.
6.You never discredit any of my actions coming from a town perspective. So it's pretty much null your whole case.
7.You keep saying i'm busing and this is scummy with out saying why. Why would scum do this and not do option b or c. You don't account for how I would act either.

[Garmr]

fix for 2:I would of made him(aero) die the next night and not reveal the qt in public chat. Abr would also of been aware of it instead of trying to pump me of more info.

[Garmr]

Your acting like my whole case is on you being bad. I didn't think you were that experienced with my experiences with you with you being a average player. A average player doesn't nab scum 100% of the time please don't try to push that as 100% of my case. You can consider this point mute personally if you want to.

that was the whole case of yours against me. AND I NEVER SAID ITS PERSONAL. you just brought that up again.

I will read your points and I will reread your Iso later tonight,

Your being intellectually dishonest with yourself.

and this was my answer in thread wich he never answered me after :

1 - siriously ..... I said I don't see the same attitude coming from ABR then. I wasn't sure about it.

2 - That read list was before FB scum claim who should I knew that FB is the scum then?! I'm not a super saint

3 - ABR stated he is scum reading me in day 2. like 3 or 4 times ... wtf are you talking about?

I'm town. I was the one who were asking a vig shot on FB day 1. I was the one who hammered FB without hesitation. and I was pushing ABR lynch.

Busy with my GF so i didn't post a response.

1-what does this even mean. That's nothing to do with the point.

2-I noticed how close FB and abr were. Doesn't matter were it was. Tbh that wasn't even someting I would call a slip yet you made a big deal out of it just liek abr made a big deal out of you. See the connection.

3. He stated but never followed up if he was going for a mislynch he would of pushed it which makes me feel like it was a bus.

4 Saying i'm town because I called for a fb shot doesn't make you town. Do you think that mattp was going to listen to you after declaring he would make his own choices.

5. I think it's beyond your skill level to guess who all the scum are day 1 follow it through. Also add the fact you did not get shot even when you seem like obvious town to everyone else and had all these correct reads.

6.No hesitation on the hammers make me feel like your scum even more since you pretty much know what his going to flip. You didn't let him role claim and could of potentially silenced him.

But I think the most likely last scum is frozen.

I think bringing frozen in here was a mistake through I see her as more likely scum than innocent at the moment. Her day 1 interaction with Abr around the slip is suspicious. Abr over reacted to it. Not to mention the fact when I mentioned the slip abr knew what I was talking about straight away.

To show the slip again and explain it here it is.

this is so damn manipulative ABR. I only have 1 shared game with you and I failed reading you as scum. you wagoned your teammate since day 1. your not doing that here but How can i know How you usually play your scum games?!

the slip here is she knows that abr isn't bussing radja. Also the fact that abrs reaction was weird to her reads list about not being higher is weird. it's like he was worried that if both flip scum they might pin that abr and fire were so close together on it

Frozen read list went more like this

AI
Garmr
Mattp
Taly

lowell
Aero

ABR

iraon

FB

Dire
Mathilda
Radja

So firebringer was pretty high on the list. Compared to dire mathilda and radja being on the bottom. But we will get to the fire part latter. Whats important is that abr was concerned on where he was placed on frozens lists and not others.

Abr also was pushing the slip but directing it at me only and didn't seem to be trying to convince others. I was iffy about the slip when I spotted it becuase I town read frozen at the time. Abrs reaction to people not voting frozen was shock. Which makes me think scum buddy.

He eventually let this slip die down just mentioning the suspicion but went for davesaz the next day.

There's more reasons why I think frozen is scum from reading her iso like her voting pattern ect but yeh.

basically this is it.

There is much more than just you're skill level involved here.

[Garmr]

Look from this veiw point
there are two players

Player A and player B

Player A is a claimed bullet proof bg
his been pretty much town read all game and in a comfortable position. If he goes with town mentality and goes apathetic he could easily make it to lylo with out having to do much all he has to do is keep his head low this works can work as town or scum.

Player B is a unclaimed player but also town read by the majority

Player A suspect player B and announces it. Straight away Player B starts calling player A scum.

Player A case is responded to but the answers to the statements aren't satisfactory for player A a lot is left unexplained.

Player B is known for being emotional no matter the alignment. So we can rule out Player B emotional response to players A case as town only.

Player B then goes on a full offensive on Player A ignoring Player A responses to player B case and just keeps hammering more and more. Not even attempting to stop cluttering the thread. A majority of the points are just saying that player A bussed with out explaining why at this time he would do this. It's low grade and dissemble.
All player B points are explained and player B doesn't try to refute player A.

As soon as player B points are explained player B out into a different frontier saying player Is being personal. Which isn't true. Dispute between the two players is resolved. Player A still points out that player B is scum in player As eyes.

Player B then goes on the attack again ignoring player As previous points.

Player B new case on A is that player A is gambiting with saving player C with player A bg

Incomes Player c

Player C is a known power role. Player A was uncertain of player C because he was paranoid so he leaves the impression in the qt made by player C that he won't defend Player C and will let him get sorted. If Player C is town and scum is in the qt then Player C will probably get shot being a power role that's town sided.

If player A is scum he would be offer keeping his head low and letting Player C die claiming he was still paranoid about it. But now player C is confirmed town and player A loses cover of the Bp explaining why is alive. This is in conflict of interest of A scum player A but a town player A is now in a better position. He forces scum to shoot player C again or take both player A and C to the final three. Player A knows player C is town making it hard for scum because player C also has a hard town read on player A.

Who do you think is more likely scum from this scenario and why?

[Garmr]

that's not page top

[Garmr]

Look from this veiw point
there are two players

Player A and player B

Player A is a claimed bullet proof bg
his been pretty much town read all game and in a comfortable position. If he goes with town mentality and goes apathetic he could easily make it to lylo with out having to do much all he has to do is keep his head low this works can work as town or scum.

NO , the fact you were been town readed is irrelevant. you want me to link some scum games of mine that I've been called obv town in them ? you can't live till lylo. your a BG aren't you ? you have 3 nights to die - protecting someone

Player B is a unclaimed player but also town read by the majority

I'm a VT if that changes anything. I don't think we another PR out there as two scum are already lynched and they had basically nothing.

Player A suspect player B and announces it. Straight away Player B starts calling player A scum.

Again my case on you has no relation to your case on me

Player A case is responded to but the answers to the statements aren't satisfactory for player A a lot is left unexplained.

So what do you want me to explain? You think ABR was bussing me and I was bussing both of them becuase I don't have it in me to find scums. how exactly do you want me to answer to these accusations?

Player B is known for being emotional no matter the alignment. So we can rule out Player B emotional response to players A case as town only.

Definetly

Player B then goes on a full offensive on Player A ignoring Player A responses to player B case and just keeps hammering more and more. Not even attempting to stop cluttering the thread. A majority of the points are just saying that player A bussed with out explaining why at this time he would do this. It's low grade and dissemble.
All player B points are explained and player B doesn't try to refute player A.

I never ignored any of your posts. this is a blant misrepresentation. I still can't find answers for these :

Why FB claimed even night cop?
Why you claimed your role after his claim?
What was your Agenda?
All the rest can be considered bussing on that slot.

As soon as player B points are explained player B out into a different frontier saying player Is being personal. Which isn't true. Dispute between the two players is resolved. Player A still points out that player B is scum in player As eyes.

You discredit my ability to play mafia games - yeah its personal.

Player B then goes on the attack again ignoring player As previous points.

I never ignored anything ......

Player B new case on A is that player A is gambiting with saving player C with player A bg

That was my case since the beginning, why your trying to discredit it ?

Incomes Player c

I'm lost here player C is Aero ? if thats a gambit your just faking your bp bodyguard to lie low. that won't make Aero scum . you know that right ?

Player C is a known power role. Player A was uncertain of player C because he was paranoid so he leaves the impression in the qt made by player C that he won't defend Player C and will let him get sorted. If Player C is town and scum is in the qt then Player C will probably get shot being a power role that's town sided.

And Aero role has no relation to your role. this is a logical fallacy your using here.

If player A is scum he would be offer keeping his head low and letting Player C die claiming he was still paranoid about it. But now player C is confirmed town and player A loses cover of the Bp explaining why is alive. This is in conflict of interest of A scum player A but a town player A is now in a better position. He forces scum to shoot player C again or take both player A and C to the final three. Player A knows player C is town making it hard for scum because player C also has a hard town read on player A.

If you die tonight saving Aero - your a BG. scum will kill one of you for sure in the next following nights. we shall w8 and see

Who do you think is more likely scum from this scenario and why?

becuase of your unnecessary claim after FB death. that whole conversation is bugging me

Not the first time as town I claimed like this before.

I have claimed
once as a body guard day 2
once as a hider day 1
once as bullet proof. day 1
and now once as a bullet proof day 2

[Garmr]

This game has dropped to a snails pace ever since me and frozen stopped posting that much. Lift your game up peps.

[Garmr]

got prodded will catch up

[Garmr]

Grammar what do you think? I'm not gonna lynch Frozen today, so what's your take on AI/Dier?

Tbh I wouldn't mind lynching either of them. I noticed dave is null in your list I would put him as a town lean.

Out of AJ and AI I would like to think AJ is the scum because that means I would of called him out earlier. But ego aside Ai comes out scummier.

Day 1
AI's play was extremely passive. In the beginning he takes no stances on the mattp wagon.
He really did like to put people as fence town

Lowell's last post is quite convincing. I am going to place Lowell at fence-town for now.

Anyway, Garmr is taking such strong positions that if he is wrong, he knows he is going to face a lot of scrutiny.

So I am putting him at fence-town for now(!). No need to bother with him yet.

I am currently slightly scumreading:

{Mathilda, Dierfire} and after them {

Dwlee

}.

I noticed that he only has slight scum reads nothing concrete. But he feels the need to single out dwlee. If they are all borderline scum reads why is dwlee after them?

Radja is fence-town for me. His reactions are not the best, but he is still trying to scumhunt (despite the pressure) and I like that.

Then we have Albert B. If Mathilda is indeed scum, I am gonna say Albert B. is town.

My read on Dwlee is less strong (and is basically a result of a very early application of PoE). While he has made quite some posts, he does not really seem to be pushing the game forward or anything. He says he is a poor scumhunter, which can be either true or false; but it does seem like a poor excuse for not scumhunting.

Look at that another fence town. It's like you have no commitment.

MattP looks fine to me. I don't know why people want to vote for him. Aero is a good bet for Town on his wagon. His points on Iraonavp are good; currently Iraonavp would be my best guess for Mafia on his wagon if he's Town.

Now I have to dive into Taly's posts.

Nice white knighting here. It also looks like Dierfire is yelling that he is scumhunting without actually doing any of the scumhunting.

But let's DIVE some more into Dierfire's posts!

This seems like a shitty excuse to change wagons. I wouldn't call this post white knighting. I'd expect scum to come in and defend the town.

I've liked some of garmr's earlier posts but that post didn't feel like he accomplished much.

I don't think it accomplished much either, but he seems genuine.

I don't approve of the dier vote.

Why not? He's a better candidate than MattP or Albert B.

Weird way to interact with dwlee. Also just noticed you saying that I didn't accomplish much here. was going to wait till the end of my post to vote you but fuck that.
VOTE: Always Innoncent

I've liked some of garmr's earlier posts but that post didn't feel like he accomplished much.

I don't think it accomplished much either, but he seems genuine.

I don't approve of the dier vote.

Why not? He's a better candidate than MattP or Albert B.

You don't HAVE to vote for one of those 3. Why are you creating a false dilemma?

I can also vote for you, if you want.

an odd post sounds like scum bickering.

I've liked some of garmr's earlier posts but that post didn't feel like he accomplished much.

I don't think it accomplished much either, but he seems genuine.

I don't approve of the dier vote.

Why not? He's a better candidate than MattP or Albert B.

You don't HAVE to vote for one of those 3. Why are you creating a false dilemma?

I can also vote for you, if you want.

VOTE: AlwaysInnocent

I don't like the threat.
I question your vote and you immediately attack me for it.

I like threatening my perceived opponents. I think you could be scum buddies with Dierfire.

Tries to link deir with dwlee with no reason.

I generally don't do them, but in this case, I was already associating you two in my mind, and then you come and defend him. Weird.

This post is whats weird. I think it might of been a plan to try and set up deir.

Always innocent and dwlee had very weird bickering.

Dwlee leaving could be because of the bickering with AI.

[Garmr]

also deir is L-1 care.

[Garmr]

Also, perhaps you missed it, but Dwlee explicitly said that he didn't approve of the Dierfire vote. Why not? I think I know why: because Dierfire was his actual scum buddy.

I think this is more of a reflection of how you would play not dwlee. He has no issue with bussing. There also the option that deir is town and dwlee was trying to get brownie points off deirs lynch because at that stage it could of happened.

You pretty much fulfill all these criteria. you didn't vote fire/dwlee once and you defended abr.

Also, I don't "bicker" with fellow scum behind the scenes. At most I try to stage something like this, but I don't think I would be so aggressive towards Dwlee if I were scum.

You weren't aggressive at all. It was bickering but there wasn't anything aggressive.

Garmr, you're quoting the very posts that actually prove the opposite of what you're claiming. The interaction with Dwlee is not faked. I genuinely didn't like his passive play.

Not liking someones play doesn't mean you the opposite alignment. If you really had a problem with dwlee I would see you switching to lynch him since your deirfire reasoning was bad.

[Garmr]

see my problem is this you all are trying to force the lynch on someone else. It doesn't make you guys look townier. I have only 1 solid twon read and that Aero.

I still have problem with town reading Garmr
I'm struggling to believe AI is town
I have Direfire and dave in my null category
and I'm scumreading Aj more becuase of his recent reactions

so AI why is direfire scum again - please please please don't go on POE . just make a solid case

Direfire why you think Aj is scum ?

Don't GO ON POE

Ty all

Garmr is town.
Dave is town.
Aj is town.
I am town.
Dierfire is scum.

why is aj town to you.

[Garmr]

http://www.hasdierfirebeenlynchedyet.com

Tell me why aj is town what reasoning do you have?

[Garmr]

http://www.hasdierfirebeenlynchedyet.com

Tell me why aj is town what reasoning do you have?

I think I have been clear enough about him?

Ok I can see abr potentially busing his buddies but dwlees reaction to abr and aj early game makes it null for me since he commented on it but he didn't seem to want to get involved to much calling radja vote on abr garbage but not scum reading him for it or trying to explain a read.


fuck I just rembered something and now i'm beging to doubt myself

[Garmr]

Aero I want you to reassure me. What motive could scum have to shoot ironpv? Looking from abr point of view he had no reason to kill fire and if he was killed for firebringer then Frozen would make much more sense since she was more townie and in conflict with abr it would also of cleared abrs slate to allow him to vote elsewhere.

Do you remember what I said before about something I said may of changed the kill towards iron.

UNVOTE: AI

[Garmr]

This is why Aj (previously Radja) is not scum:

VOTE: Radja

And why are you voting me for not engaging with the game and not Mathilda who I'm voting for not engaging with the game? Aren't you just hypocritically doing what I'm doing?

Radja, if you play chicken with me, you will blink first, I guarantee it.

Albert B, Radja is likely stubborn town. Uncooperative and uncompromising to the point of it hurting himself.

That's a reasoning to point at why someone would be scum. Scum get annoyed at scum buddies just as much as town. Even dwlee at that point said the reasoning on abr was crap but didn't push aj for it.
He might look to be stubborn town to the untrained eye, but he's not.

It's very easy to fake posts like radja. I'll do it right back at him to prove it.

Albert B. was genuinely annoyed with Radja and wanted him lynched. Remember that Radja was close to actually being lynched at that point. After a while the wagon dissipated and Albert B. moved on to Mathilda.

[Garmr]

Oh that scum are just as likely to bus with genuine frustration as he may of viewed radja as taking the team down. Dwlee showed frustration as well and didn't act to much on it.

Radja your vote is absolute garbage. It's absolute hypocrisy.

[Garmr]

Oh that scum are just as likely to bus with genuine frustration as he may of viewed radja as taking the team down.

I don't know how you play as scum, but I tend to treat scum as "buddies" (at least behind the scenes). We're in it together. Even if a partner doesn't play so well, I'm not going to throw them under the bus because I feel like they screw up the game.

Dwlee showed frustration as well and didn't act to much on it.

Radja your vote is absolute garbage. It's absolute hypocrisy.

Because Dwlee was defending his partner in crime.

That's your problem. Because you are constantly saying that's not how I play. Guess what not everyone plays like you. If you use the same standards for everyone as what you would do you are just doing two things.

1.You are making yourself easier to read
2.Scum will know how to manipulate you and play to your standards and you end up being a tool for them.

Hell everyone is different and not to long ago bussing your scum buddies was a must do every game now that's died down.

[Garmr]

When has mafia ever followed common sense

[Garmr]

Frozen are you unsure about me just curious?

[Garmr]

Garmr warning a lot of bragging and ego inflating will be in this post to make myself feel epic

Frozen are you unsure about me just curious?

Definitely unsure about you

that claim was the most stupid useless claim at that time by FB and your claim after ward

I can't find a single reason for that theatrical show. I guess that was pre planned in scum pt

So your just going to ignore the fact I claim roles like that in situations where all the time in previous games ok. also there's a lot better roles to claim as scum.

Tbh even through I didn't follow through on fire on day 1 because dwlee replaced out I went for the scum lynch (Even through i was wrong.) that would be achieved I don't want to get in a position where town doesn't lynch I have been in that situation before.

My interactions with dwlee and abr alone should be enough to clear me for someone competent. I knew abr was targeted for a night action. Because Aero told me night one so I leaked out that information to find reactions from other players to see if they jailed abr and that was the reason

so like no one is interested in the fact I have day chat now with a potential scum power role ok then.

You're saying someone neighborized you and Matt, and you now have daychat with that player? Or was there a hood already that you got added to?
How would you know that Matt became a member? Is that based solely on what the other neighbor told you?

We got added all of us abr was supposed to have joined us as well but something blocked him from entering according to the person who made it.

Also I'm not saying anything about the person for a reason.

I was trying to fish abr reaction to the fact he was supposed to be in this chat to see if he knew why. He didn't react at all the way a townie would with astectic which was one of the deciding factors in what made me vote him the next day.

Also would like to say when i was attacking dwlee for being scummy you just out right ignored it and continued with a slip on fb that wasn't really a slip(I will argue all day about that if i had to) I actually had a good case on dwlee and you ignored it to keep your vote on radja but then so did mostly every other townie and scum. My bitching aside.

Lets not forget I was also the tipping vote for firebringer.

Classic Rock Mafia:

Votecount #2.44:

Firebringer (3): Dierfire, Davesaz, Frozen Angel
Dierfire (3): AlwaysInnocent, Albert B. Rampage, Aj The Epic
Aeronaut (1): Firebringer
AlwaysInnocent (0):
Albert B. Rampage (0):
iraonavp (0):
Frozen Angel (0):
Aj The Epic (0):
Garmr (0):
Davesaz (0):



Not voting: Garmr, iraonavp, Aeronaut

With 10 alive it's 6 to lynch.

Night falls in (expired on 2016-01-22 21:00:00).

Song:

Boston: Higher Power

Notes:

My favourite Boston song!
VC delayed to mete out revenge against evil pagetop stealers.

VOTE: Firebringer

I'm sorry but you are scum this time.

Would also like to mention that when dwlee replaced out he signed up for another game. Which makes me believe it was a tactical replace out.

I also really don't trust aj the epic for some reason.

at that point aero didn't care between about fire to much through he said it was tempting,ironpvp was leaning deir. Because of that I changed the whole wagon abr shifted off the deir wagon and onto firebringer to bus because i had shifted the momentum to fire. So don't act as if

firebringer

was all you I had the better earlier points on dwlee slot and was the vital vote to sway the fire wagon over the dwlee which you backed off because it was l-1.

hell you could also say I was major vote early game for abr to pretty much making him a viable lynch at that point vote count wise I could of easily bended it back on aero since his role is really scummy.


I wouldn't say that I'm sole mvp this game But I am going to say this I am one of them so far. Now I'm at a crucial point deciding between deir,always innocent and Aj on which one is the last scum.

I think I may of been paranoid about you but I will never get the support to lynch you today Also you are generating wifom for my slot making it less likely that I or aero will be shot by scum which may to live a extra day and allow me to get aero alive to lylo before I die so thank you lol.

[Garmr]

@AI
In the last night phase I preformed a gambit. I claimed That I would let aero be sorted in such a way I inferred that I wouldn't protect him by saying stuff like I was a still suspicious of him ect. I also tried to gave the impression in the forums that I would protect aero.

Frozen reacted really scummy to me suspecting her so I thought she would be the one to try and kill aero but then I realized something similar happened before when I mentioned that ironpv was acting extremely weird around firebringers claim passively denying them and that he might likely be scum. From a scum perspective ironpvp could be a power role from what I was inferring which at the time didn't come into my mind. I don't think abr or anyone else alive could of got that by themselves.

Deir was the only one in both of those situations I'm starting to feel like deir might be the last scum.

[Garmr]

I'm thinking of hammering deir.

[Garmr]

FA, I don't like how you are basically suspicious of everyone but Aeronaut.

In her defense I'm also slightly suspicious of every one but aero and dave

[Garmr]

I'm thinking of hammering deir.

I wouldn't be too upset about it.

I kinda took that as i'm scum and don't mind losing now and admitting defeat.

your next answer determines if I hammer you.

[Garmr]

I'm Town and lynching me doesn't end the game.
I don't think that lynching me is disastrous for Town either.
I've shared all of my thoughts that I can think of. Is there anything else that you need or want from me at this point?

VOTE: deir

nope

[Garmr]

I'm just happy I had all the scum read. But frozen your emotional outburst i'm not saying they are fake i'm saying they effect the game state in a negative way it's ate with genuine emotion it takes away the fun for others when you do that.

[Garmr]

No? Please don't say that. I would not insult you. I don't have anything against you.

Not talking to you alone. I was talking generally . I'm sure there are so many interested people, as they are currently doing this in my games directly on my face. or when I can't answer them becuase of site rules.

Half the shit that was idiot was swear words not really that much of insult. Like are "they poopy heads" was "are they fucking idiots". everything else was similar to that or taking swear out.

I think annie is the best champ post was a rant about how the emotional plea thing is toxic to the game. I'm quite happy to say things to your face. If you want the short of it.

If you go off the railings over getting lynched again I'm going to keep pushing you in fact I will just vote you and refuse to take it off as soon as you start acting up.

[Garmr]

No? Please don't say that. I would not insult you. I don't have anything against you.

Not talking to you alone. I was talking generally . I'm sure there are so many interested people, as they are currently doing this in my games directly on my face. or when I can't answer them becuase of site rules.

Half the shit that was

edited

was swear words not really that much of insult. Like are "they poopy heads" was "are they fucking idiots". everything else was similar to that or taking swear out.

I think annie is the best champ post was a rant about how the emotional plea thing is toxic to the game. I'm quite happy to say things to your face. If you want the short of it.

If you go off the railings over getting lynched again I'm going to keep pushing you in fact I will just vote you and refuse to take it off as soon as you start acting up.

Lol I swear my mind is stuck in ticked mode.

[Garmr]

No? Please don't say that. I would not insult you. I don't have anything against you.

Not talking to you alone. I was talking generally . I'm sure there are so many interested people, as they are currently doing this in my games directly on my face. or when I can't answer them becuase of site rules.

Half the shit that was

edited

was swear words not really that much of insult. Like are "they poopy heads" was "are they fucking idiots". everything else was similar to that or taking swear out.

I think annie is the best champ post was a rant about how the emotional plea thing is toxic to the game. I'm quite happy to say things to your face. If you want the short of it.

If you go off the railings over getting lynched again I'm going to keep pushing you in fact I will just vote you and refuse to take it off as soon as you start acting up.

Lol I swear my mind is stuck in ticked mode.

That behavior wasn't my defensive mode to stop me getting lynched. That's how I make case on people. I provided you my town meta with the similar behaviour. if you think you wan to lynch me if you saw that again , never play with me please

and yes I'llbe happy to say these things to my face not in my back

Was going to say those things to your face and I had the intention of you read them. Rc just toned down the swearing.