Mini Normal 1917: :X Mafia (Game over!)
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Hiraki
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Hiraki Survivor
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yes - let's hope that this game goes as smoothly as that oneIn post 289, Grendel wrote:
Hi Hiraki!In post 285, Hiraki wrote:egopost
Remember me from Chosen mafia?
i don't remember you
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Hiraki Survivor
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scumIn post 10, Grendel wrote:@All
1. What is your preferred alignment?
2. On a scale of one to ten how collaborative a player are you and why?
3. How important is it to take other players personalities into account when forming reads on them?
4. What player do you have the most experience with on this roster?
5. What are you feeling as you enter this mini's D1?
5
100%
gamma, i guess
nothing
there is nothing wrong with answering them, they at least start conversationIn post 18, DeathRowKitty wrote:I'm not going to answer Grendel's questions and it would be best if no one else did either
don't understand this early game cheetory wagon
ECHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHIn post 55, NotTheRealPaul wrote:VOTE: NotTheRealPaul
this is different from the Pg 1 posts tbh
In post 77, notsure wrote:I don't know why you are reading so heavily into me, like you want to paint me as mafia. Getting scummy vibes from you.@all: plz post your opinions on this post and this phrase in general within the next 24 hours before i use my ability 'nothin personnel' to kill you, ty
ooo perfectIn post 79, DeathRowKitty wrote:I refuse to believe that you are a real person sorry
feel free to rag on people with your may 31 join dateIn post 91, notsure wrote:anyway, goodnight, I can see the makings of a long troll game here where people harp on little details without context...hope it improves.
PERFECTIn post 98, Accountant wrote:I think NotTheRealPaul is probably scum. The selfvote + questionnaire answering felt like a really bad attempt to fit in/insert self into game and their post was more or less an isolated island that didn't touch on what was being discussed around them. This is scummy because mafia find it way easier to put themselves into a game through easy to fake stuff like selfvote jokes or answering NAI questions rather than put themselves in the midst of real discussion.
VOTE: NotTheRealPaul
I don't get Mutton's voting progression - this is something I will do right after this post.
wow what GARBAGEIn post 121, CCC wrote:I'm sure Mafia would love a quicklynch on Day One. Less time to talk, to make and consider reads, to act and react, to allow Town time to work.
because it's boiling down to it, I don't think there's anything wrong with DRK disparaging the 5 question thing from Grendel but I think his attempt was to create a discussion around it. It's really NAI and just annoying but I can respect the attempt pretty hard.
OK but that's why you're the only one voting Klick - you understand this, no?In post 129, CCC wrote:No, I don't. I do think that they'll grab it with both hands if it falls into their lap, though.
wrong.gifIn post 140, Accountant wrote:
Why? He's said nothing AIIn post 139, Cheetory6 wrote:TripleC is probably my strongest townread atm ftr.
This kind of sums up what I was trying to say beforeIn post 152, Accountant wrote:I actually think notsure's actions aren't objectively that bad and a lot of the reads wrt him are clouded by dislike
i don't mean it but im ignoring paul posting because...? don't even have a read on him just can't get a read on him
I disagree highly and it actually REALLY reminds me of my very very early scumgame where I made X + Y = scum. It works because it's at least convincing for the same reasoning that you're TRing him. The parts where he just says "well that's what I think" really hits that ping hard.In post 227, Accountant wrote:I think notsure is town because he has this air of "I'm right fools and if you disagree you're just bad at mafia" that is both unnatural to a scum (who knows for sure that they are wrong and fake) and also very hard to fake.
opposite tooIn post 233, MuttonChopMagic wrote:"why would scum do this" has caused many a town to lose
This is how Gamma playsIn post 236, DeathRowKitty wrote:There's two parts to what I don't like about Gamma's play here. The first is that I see no indication that he's expended any mental effort on trying to figure out anyone's alignment. He's poked at people a few times, but not in ways that seem to probe at alignment at all.
I agree with this - I enjoy MCM's rapping but I'm not getting much for it.In post 253, CCC wrote:And the worst of it is, none of that is in any way alignment indicative, so I can't even justify voting him off on that basis.
i feel like this is probably one of my worst catch-up posts which will 100% need elaboration - im pretty confident in the following:
town: Accountant, DRK
null: - anyone not listed -
scum: notsure, Paul
MCM is not a townread but I don't know if he's scum yet, post with that coming right up (i.e. probably tomorrow) ; i also need to look at this backhand stuff and a VC before voting-
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Hiraki Survivor
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Correct - not sure what you're not getting here.In post 326, NotTheRealPaul wrote:Because at one point you said you liked Accountant's attack on me, then you said you were ignoring my posts because you had no read on me, and at he end I was in your scum pile, all in one post.
You may be new to the game but that doesn't mean that you can't act scummy.-
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mb im thinking too highly of notsure rnIn post 334, notsure wrote:Reason why: He's being dodgy and appears to half-ass pay attention to people he has put in the spotlight. It shows he's not really fully-invested in what he's saying and yes I do think he's scum.
And this is the epitome of Paul posting that I just cannot shake a SR off. This post and the last post reek of forced reactions. I believe that Paul is playing this way because he thinks that as town this is the best way to react under pressure. However, since he isn't town, he is unaware of how to actually act under pressure normally.In post 343, NotTheRealPaul wrote:oh no now there is a lot of pressure
should I make up some scum reads? will that make it go away?
what??????In post 360, Backhand wrote:Haven't caught up yet, or don't want to? Whatcha thinking?
I think this was directed to Backhand, just to clarify the record.In post 367, Accountant wrote:You shouldn't have such lofty expectations of N_M.
I read this and thought Gamma stated it incorrectly. I think it's more that they are more likely to slip up about knowing everything and therefore don't keep everything in mind. I don't quite 100% abide to it either but it's not as abnormal as the original statement.In post 419, Accountant wrote:
whoever told you this was wrong and bad at the gameIn post 414, Gamma Emerald wrote:This indicates you aren't paying attention to things. It's a proven fact that scum don't have to read the Game as closely as they know everyone's alignment.
old scum me would never make such an insinuating post - SR is off the table for nowIn post 430, notsure wrote:Alright, first of all, I was considering unvoting now that we're at 4 votes on Paul, but it's interesting that he says I misread or didn't read what DRK posted, but makes no actual case about it...Funny cause I don't remember that being true, other than misinterpreting what was said because I was annoyed. Not sure how that makes me your high scumread right now...unless I'm your best bet at a deflection.
I think DRK is the most experienced here.
Honestly getting TRs from Gamma, why does this keep happening
3 things i wanna go over after this short catch-up in the next post
A) backhand posting
B) MCM vote progression (as mentioned previously)
C) whatever else was mentioned previously-
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MCM -
I wrote a lot about Grendel but then threw it all out once MCM townread him. I only have one question there - can you emphasize where you saw Grendel posting take a turn for the better and how?
After that, everything is very clear. I think when reading every post, MCM's posts can become very very very weird, especially due to the post-restriction (regardless of whether or not it is self imposed). Clear TR and anyone struggling to read him should ISO him. I think the vote progression stuff pinged around the Raya vote and the quick switch but it is completely justified.
Backhand -
Upon reading the thread the first time, I thought there was something very obvious that Backhand was doing. I do agree that he does not have a great amount of substantial content but I also think cheetory is in that category and half the playerbase is TRing him - not for bad reasons either. I don't see it from the ISO. Just a lot of null points that I don't agree with (especially the MCM stuff and N_M stuff). However, that's not to say that there is a clear effort to try and sort out if his vote is on scum or not. 212 and 223 are very very civil posts from someone looking for answers. I can't TR because I can't agree with the method used but I definitely cannot SR either.
Which means that at this point I really want to examine the votes on the wagon -
@Grendel - is Post 184 the only basis for the SR on Backhand?
@Accountant - can you tell how Post 318 pinged you?
I don't like how 3 of my TRs have voted this same person and I really don't understand any of the votes (excluding MCM). Could just be me but I am entirely doubtful on that part.-
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Not so much confusing as it is a little outrageous to demand, regardless of it being N_M.In post 476, Backhand wrote:I think notmafia should participate in the game, since we've gotten one post from the slot the whole game. Not sure why that's confusing.
I usually SR Gamma regardless of his role but for the last few games I've been TRing, again, regardless of his role.In post 485, Cheetory6 wrote:Don't think I understand what this means!-
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Based on the player, yes.In post 491, Backhand wrote:Hiraki, a replacement comes in and votes for himself, its outrageous to ask for more?-
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usually i have two types of posting, I tried to get rid of it but it kind of came back and I decided that I'm not gonna let it die anymoreIn post 556, Grendel wrote:@Hiraki
btw what is with the stylistic changing in you posting style? Your wording feels much looser and off the cuff then that other game we played together, and that one game I spectated.
the stuff that you're talking about is usually very very off the cuff, as you noted, is just that I'm reviewing something and want to get something out fast - clearly the more intricate posting has its benefits but sometimes i just really need to get something out. you can trust me in that there's only one person typing here
466 shows the contrast where I have very very very clear thoughts and then the same off the cuff posting, it's just me being me tbh
What is this talking about?In post 540, MuttonChopMagic wrote:thought about it. not sure slot is close to lock town now I think
that's a gross replace, yes, but scum doing that there would be 1000 times more stink
This is terrible.In post 549, CCC wrote:Okay, now this is starting to look suspicious. Your readslist was close to mine, which had been posted before yours, and now you're saying you 'forgot' why you Townread someone on that same list?
553 doesn't sit well with me either.
Wow - didn't see the Accountant replace coming until I did my research. Yikes.
Vote: CCC
I think I'll start here today, especially based on recent postings.-
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Do you think this is a reasonable argument?In post 648, CCC wrote:
Because I'm starting to suspect that Gamma Emerald (playing Mafia) copied my readslist, juggled a few names in the middle, and presented it as his own, instead of generating his own fake reads?In post 575, Hiraki wrote:
This is terrible.In post 549, CCC wrote:Okay, now this is starting to look suspicious. Your readslist was close to mine, which had been posted before yours, and now you're saying you 'forgot' why you Townread someone on that same list?
553 doesn't sit well with me either.
Wow - didn't see the Accountant replace coming until I did my research. Yikes.
Vote: CCC
I think I'll start here today, especially based on recent postings.-
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I've gone over Blackhand. N_M isn't worth a voteIn post 659, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Why don't you like the other wagons?In post 645, Hiraki wrote:Looking at the VC, I am A-OK with my vote because I hate all of the other wagons.yet. PP seems very opportunistic. Don't have a problem with your playing yet and same with Nero.
tl;dr I don't SR anyone who's being wagoned at the current moment-
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OK but there's nothing wrong with PP or his predecessor.In post 663, Cheetory6 wrote:
Seems as though a great chance for a wagon is waiting for you right here.In post 660, Hiraki wrote:PP seems very opportunistic.
(:
OK - sorry, if this is what you thought Cheetory then fair game, my bad on the way I wrote it.In post 673, PenguinPower wrote:I don't see how I'm opportunistic...explain?
I think thepeopleon the wagon are being very opportunistic. I don't think you've done anything to warrant a vote.
Sorry that I needed the official three votes to comment on something as if it's a wagon!!!!!11 >>>>>>>>>>:In post 679, PenguinPower wrote:
Ah...k...thx...since when is two votes a wagon?In post 676, SlingshotWaffles wrote:
I think they were saying that your wagon is opportunistic.In post 673, PenguinPower wrote:I don't see how I'm opportunistic...explain?
They can be dry and long.In post 688, DeathRowKitty wrote:I think I've stopped reading Grendel's posts and I don't know why.-
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Hiraki
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nothing happened but if you want me to comment on nothingness
1) that dayvig probably detracted my attention to this game rather than brought more attention to it
2) Grendel has me low on his reads-list because I pinged an RQS scumtell which are clearly never wrong, as Grendel put it
3) amished tell is super dumb-
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no, I don't really look at other players in yourIn post 818, Grendel wrote:Interesting that this is the point you pick at. I would have thought you'd have something to say about my including null player in my lynch pool.nullpool
like really??????? i've been having hinges that this is normal town meta for you grendel but i'm starting to feel that's a little absurd for some of the arguments you're making
In post 818, Grendel wrote:I remember you chewing me out for voting a tertiary scum read over a primary one in chosen mafia. Your thought process is not town Hiraki.ONE GAMEI'M SURE THE PROCESS REPEATS --
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=70964 - oops, looks like I tunneled the entire game on a player that did almost the SAME thing and was almost lynched for it, whoops!! Definitely must've been scumHiraki there!!!
If you're going to effectively try to use meta on me, maybe use a couple of games that you might happen to not be in??? Or that were 6 months ago???
OK nope, now I'm going FULL BLOWNIn post 830, Cheetory6 wrote:CCC
why is CCC this high?
Yeah this one DEFINITELY needs some explaining past metaIn post 830, Cheetory6 wrote:DRK
and you BETTER BELIEVE that this one is going to need 100% more explaining as a leaning SR for someone with a meta like N_MIn post 830, Cheetory6 wrote:Not_Mafia
I'm not saying he's a bad lynch. I'm just saying you're going to have to justify the read. Post-Edit: I'm OK with hammering him after he explains the stuff he talked about the cheetory stuff that apparently no one else sees; same with nero
did we read the same oneIn post 837, MuttonChopMagic wrote:like I said drks catchup was fine so yea he can stay
null, gamma pokes as scum and town - the poking is less consistent as scum but i don't think it's anything noticeable in-game, per se?In post 885, DeathRowKitty wrote:Has anyone played with scum Gamma Emerald? I was told earlier that a thing I pointed out about him was something he does as town, but is it a towntell for him or a nulltell?
ignore the shit about your bad catch-up LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIn post 898, DeathRowKitty wrote:CCC is my 4th biggest scumread
This is a reason to unvoteIn post 914, NotTheRealPaul wrote:
200% AgreeIn post 897, Cheetory6 wrote:I'm not voting anywhere else if that's all Not_Mafia intends to post.
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I didn't really read over this post so here's a post-editIn post 915, Hiraki wrote:like really??????? i've been having hinges that this is normal town meta for you grendel but i'm starting to feel that's a little absurd for some of the arguments you're making
I think the absurdism actually creates a larger TR for me on Grendel rather than what the post is implying, after a solid re-read, that the arguments being absurd would lead to scum Grendel-
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Doesn't make me feel better.In post 917, Cheetory6 wrote:What if I told you that it was mostly just how I felt?
And that I feel like articulating how I felt would probably just underwhelm you?
CCC yes, DRK is a new read that I can't formulate yet stillIn post 917, Cheetory6 wrote:Was there some point that you elaborated on DRK/CCC apparently being scumbutts?
I think he, unfortunately, does this as town. It's usually the response that follows that demonstrates if he's town or scum, I can go into this, if you want?In post 917, Cheetory6 wrote:Having glanced at Gamma's scumMeta, it seems like he asks a lot of vapid and not really useful questions as scum and that's more or less lining up with here. Like he cares more about how he's perceived, vs just trying to find scum. If you disagree you should be hitting me in the face with why.
Not slot indicative.In post 918, Cheetory6 wrote:Also don't really know why you're shading Paul's comment.
He really strikes me as town lhf.-
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4/5In post 1090, Cheetory6 wrote:Bad!=Scum.
Let's wagon CCC.
You were all about that shit earlier all like "fuk u cheet u shuldnt townread ccc"
and now I'm all like "ok sure I will listen to you".-
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In post 1152, CCC wrote:I went back and checked - you're scumreading me because I thought Gamma had copied my readslist?I HAVE LITERALLY NEVER SAID THIS-
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credibility falling super hard
i'm gonna need a bit more substance from the Nero people - maybe I missed it somewhere? His opinions are out there but not particularly scummy.
I wasn't going to say the last part but the fact that you say that makes your argument very uneasy and more probably wrong in my eyes.In post 1237, DeathRowKitty wrote:part of why i haven't liked nero is because early on i had reservations about accountant that i never expressed because having me + accountant around was keeping me honest with myself because of how we were playing but at times it really did seem like they were just drawing conclusions that were convenient
inb4 "isn't that what accountant always does"
yucky argu--In post 1253, Cheetory6 wrote:But it's not as though your activity hasn't been a little sparse right?
So, when you come in and you respond to things pertaining to you, it can kind of come across like you're only popping up when you need to defend yourself.
In post 1253, Cheetory6 wrote:I don't know if I put stock in that, but I can see someone else doing that.
why on EARTH is everyone in the nero wagon just OK with discrediting their argument like two seconds later and not OK with voting their ACTUAL SCUMREAD????
Nero has MUCH more credibility than you budIn post 1259, Backhand wrote:Nero, maybe this is just your game, but you don't really reply in a way that screams "engage with me" so much as "if you vote for me I am going to yell at you until you stop." Saying that you have only come in to defend yourself is not totally fair, but its not made up either.
when endgame shows CCC & Slingshot scum, you can all suq my dick tbhIn post 1274, SlingshotWaffles wrote:
Oh fun!In post 1273, Cheetory6 wrote:I could lynch slingshot because I'm tired of his shitty pointless potshot playstyle?
(':
You should do that!
beautiful postingIn post 1280, Cheetory6 wrote:why do you ask questions? why do you feel? why do you think? how come this thing is this way? how come I do what whatn wherent how who am I?
that quote LITERALLY SAYS NOTHING OF THAT SORTIn post 1302, CCC wrote:Then I have presumably completely misunderstood what you meant back here:
I disagreed WITH your reads-list and a SLEW of other things. The fact that the post that says that I don't like one of your posts is your biggest target for me is just flat-out the easiest cop out in the game. Here are other things I ACTUALLY said about you.
For reference, here is post 553:
If I say that this post is bad, then why on earth wouldn't I also give credit to Gamma???In post 553, CCC wrote:
Could you perhaps link the post in question?In post 550, Gamma Emerald wrote:I explained NTRP in a past post
Fair enough, reads do change. (If you could explain your read on Mutton, too, that would be great).In post 550, Gamma Emerald wrote:I dropped that case and bumped him up one spot
Mutton is my lowest now
Hmmmmm. I think that pointing out specific posts you like would be a really good idea. "Obvious newbtown" is a very easy thing to say when you don't really know what the case is.In post 550, Gamma Emerald wrote: DRK I feel their pushes are genuine but I don't really regard that as grounds for a hard townread. I've made pushes on things I legitimately believed were scummy as scum before.
Notsure is just obvious newbtown. Not much to say there. I could point out specific post I like if you really want.
Also why did it take you 5 years for you to actually comment on this and then just presume what I'm talking about?
Also why did you ignore the several other posts in my ISO that clearly call out your bad play????
Unfortunately, even after all of this, I will, as promised:
Unvote, Vote: Kraska-
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The current Nero Cain scumreads.In post 1479, NotTheRealPaul wrote:@hikari what exactly do u need help with? im confused-
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u kidding me broIn post 1501, Cheetory6 wrote:a) where your head is at on Nero?
Filler to the next level, only relevant thing said in the game was defending N_M after faking a vigshot on him. All of his reads are unsubstantiated and don't make much sense in the long-run.In post 1501, Cheetory6 wrote:b) Why is Slingshot scum?-
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More of a critique on how Cheetory will do the same thing and then just try to disparage my play by just saying "I don't know" when I've clearly told him where to look.In post 1511, kraska77 wrote:Can u not be childish? Thx
If I TR'd him, then I wouldn't ask for reasons to vote him. And excuse me if I'm a little frustrated at this wagon when I've asked sinceDay 1about the reasoning on this wagon (Pg. 54 to be exact and I was quoting things from Pg. 50 in that! I've been asking about this for 16 pages and haven't been satisfied! I must be TRing him super hard to keep asking about it!!!!!!!) and here's where I'm at:
1) Kraska continuing to say that he or nero is scum because wagon stuff on D1 / meta -that's an ignorable argument(s)
2)
This bullshit which in context is really annoying considering that CCC hard scumread both N_M and Kraska BEFORE conceding here and voting WITH them while SRing Nero. I tried to do URLs to make this not messy but I am such shit at that shit. This is all in CCC's ISO.In post 1383, CCC wrote:NTRP isn't an option or I might go for him... I could also see myself going for Nero.
Keep in mind that CCC, in argument with me, called his D1 play shit and D2 he's just going to continue with those D1 reads! Yay!
3) N_M hasn't said shit which is actually getting annoying at this point. I hate to say it but I honestly make an effort not to play games with him because of this. Saying "this is Nero scum" is not helpful to anyone and honestly gets me to this aggravated state where I'm borderline hard defending Nero and next post someone will ACTUALLY say something convincing and make all of this not worth my time.
4)
GREATIn post 1435, MuttonChopMagic wrote:just a Nero lynch to do
I'm SURE I'll find something here!!!!!!
5) Slingshot -
META - GREAT; I LOVE WHEN A CASE IS SOLELY ON META!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!In post 1200, SlingshotWaffles wrote:
In the games I've played/seen with you as Town, you acted very different.In post 1199, Nero Cain wrote:So why doesn't this seem like town Nero then?
If anything, doing this has strengthened my top scumreads on Waffles and CCC by a million. While a lot of the shit in this game isn't explained to a reasonable extent, the thoughtfulness into both of their reads is severely lacking.-
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don't waste my time means don't waste my time - if you said something, own up to it
In post 1576, SlingshotWaffles wrote:A) Find me those meta reads.In post 1187, SlingshotWaffles wrote:I agree this doesn't seem like Town Nero, but do you have anything else?
here's a new one - find me any instance where you accuse Nero of doing something scummy that is NOT meta reading - go ahead, I'll wait, like I said before I've read your ISO multiple times and the fact that I know it better than you worries my SR to actually be a VI readIn post 1200, SlingshotWaffles wrote:In the games I've played/seen with you as Town, you acted very different.
And here you are now! Voting him! Reasons stated were...meta related!!!!!!In post 1576, SlingshotWaffles wrote:Then later I said I'm not voting him.-
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I'm not arguing with waffles if his refutation to my arguments show a reflection of how my arguments are somehow flawed (which i will get into later that that's just flat out bogus) when he hasn't shown anything in promotion of his own when I've repeatedly asked him for those quotes
Like i said in my last post, they aren't there because they don't exist-
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GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Why DRK & Grendel in particular?In post 1590, Backhand wrote:I think it would be cool if everyone picked a side between nero and waffles (not necessarily with a vote, we don't *have* to pick one of them), but a little commitment. DRK and Grendel in particular.
OK so then if he wasn't acting like townNero, what Nero was he acting like?In post 1592, SlingshotWaffles wrote:@Hiraki those weren't scum reads. I noted he was acting differently and that was all.
If I have a box of cookies and you say "I don't want any of these cookies", then you can't just come back and say after having a bag of cookies in your hand "well I didn't say that I wanted cookies either!!" - that's just weird
The second point is all what I wrote in my phone post. The burden on proof here is on you when I have everything you talked about regarding Nero and you're trying to honestly say that I didn't state my case earlier.-
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yes congratulations CCC, you've clearly defined the reasoning that N_M is lynched, regardless of role, in most of his games - great jobIn post 1663, CCC wrote:So. It seems that Not_Mafia would, at the very least, be a most informative lynch; proving, for sure, one way or another, whether he's scum or not should allow us to focus our future scumhunting very, very precisely.
If someone TRs CCC at this point, I really need to hear your bullshit-
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I want to address this thoroughly -In post 1721, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:hiraki if "his questions dont really seem to do anything but nitpick, he's passive, and kind of a wet noodle" isn't a sufficient case or something you can agree with wrt to nero how would you feel about a grendel lynch
If you can find me something that demonstrates that the qualities of
-Passiveness
-Don't really do anything but nitpick
that equate to scum then I would LOVE to know because that is LITERALLY what I try to do in games since it works for me and I can guarantee you that I don't flip scum every game.
About Grendel, I think I would need to read more. I really hated his early game content but I didn't SR him then. His lack of motivation/time now isn't helping with my ability to obtain a read on him. As said previously, I'm pretty set on CCC and Waffles at this point and as much as I'd love to find number 3 right now, I'm pretty committed there.
In post 1720, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:please read my posts again and tell me i'm voting nero for metaIn post 1694, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:VOTE: Nero Cain
also kraska was obvtown and a complete waste of a PR but i cant really complain because it means i'll have to save my breath and not have to make a bunch of meta wallposts that'll be ignored again like last time
Surely this is only one time!In post 1694, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:bunch of meta wallposts that'll be ignored again like last time
Oh! I'm sure that asking for something that has nothing to do with this game or arguments related to this game mean that he is scumreading him for reasons inside of this game!In post 1702, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:nero can you link me a town game of yours where you were this wishy washy and uninterested in scumhunting?
Yup! Can't tell how I thought you were voting Nero for meta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with this but I'm not sure if it's inherently scummy or the position of someone who is "replaying" the game. I can go into what I mean by that if that's needed.In post 1724, kraska77 wrote:Grendel's reads' progression is non existent. It really reads like he's starting from conclusions and making his way back
I have been asking since Page 50 and no one has answered me. I would love for one person to get back to me on this.In post 1727, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:but im pretty sure non-meta reasons to scumread nero have been brought to the table and even if they havent before my replace in i've pushed nonmeta stuff so?-
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it's not very clear and either way, i'm still not wrong - your ISO isn't that long, I did read it you knowIn post 1731, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
i was talking about kraska not nero thereIn post 1730, Hiraki wrote:Surely this is only one time!
but ok i'll address your stuff-
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i can tell you that i changed nothing in my behavior so I'm sure you have such good reasoning hereIn post 1542, SlingshotWaffles wrote:Hiraki- lean Town-
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I agree with kraska and that's with the knowledge that we have vastly different opinions of this game.
@giga - I will admit there's more there than what I first read after seeing your post and I will address it thoroughly later (latest tomorrow night) but some of it still just doesn't fit to me, you know? Especially that questioning stuff - there's an early part of your wall where I think we just fundamentally think there's a difference in the ability of questions to obtain answers.-
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I think I'm OK with this too. Good time to check if I'm actually defending town.In post 1742, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:if that's the case then i'd like nero to explain the point of most of those questions
Question for you then - do you think the nature of this wagon being formed has scum on it or a bunch of VIs? Regardless of your personal opinions, there are some terrible votes here.
I'm not going to say I'm not waffling because I don't read Grendel correctly. His playstyle is very different from mine and is much more conservative and proper per se? His early posting about me being scum irked me the wrong way because it was complete bullshit but he kind of dropped it for now so...?In post 1743, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:like it's fine to be like "ok i have a completely different opinion than this person but that doesn't make them scum" but i'm not really seeing the town narrative for grendel's thought process and feeling this way insinuates that you at least are waffling?
Looking back at it one more time, I'm going to double down on the weird opinion stuff. I don't get how his RQS tells are anything other than voodoo and I'd expect a player like Grendel to realize that EXCEPT that it's Grendel so he does a lot of that stuff. It's NAI even though it should be AI.
Here are some examples of what I mean:
In post 243, Grendel wrote:Muttons dynamic also started changing dynamically with his next posts. I'm gnawing on what that means currently.
I added a bold for emphasis here.In post 304, Grendel wrote:Gamma hasn't really done anything that looks like reaching for town credit, or trying to appear to be putting more work in then he is. Maybe the closest are the few times he stood up for my entrance in the game, and I think he would have done that as either alignment.
I also don't think that Gamma is this casual as scum. He doesn't seem at all concerned with the noose.
There's is the possibility I'm wrong. I can't claim to be great at meta reading Gamma.
In post 1829, Grendel wrote:He is playing kinda bad rn, but I'm cleaving the baby in two and gonna say that it's not scummy bad.
I have no problem with a meta case - let's be clear here. I have a problem with a meta case that has no in-game reasoning (from several players) and that hasn't actually brought up any feasible examples. I think the only one brought up was a small discussion about Civ Mafia (something I'll dare not read) which isn't really a great example in any case. It's like how Grendel literally threw a scumread on me because he's watched two games with me and then I literally quoted a game where I've done similar behavior as town. The response? Definitely didn't talk about those two games I was in!In post 1743, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:with nero i get a similar impression, like there's a "gotcha!" kind of feel for how he deals with his scumreads but then there's little follow through to get interest in their lynches
I have no clue what you're trying to say here as much as that you think that it's easier for scum to not lie rather than to lie. I don't get how you could effectively use this as a way to find scum when it's also an effective way to find town.In post 1755, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:with the stuff on me, I guess that makes sense? like you have a point where that "technically correct" kind of mindset usually comes from scum since it's easier to argue a perspective that you know is true and dont need to lie/misrep/show how informed you are to prove it which i kind of mentioned earlier
I hate that my top SR is just gonna get a pass for "bad play" by multiple players and votes Nero. That's just fine.
OK - he is a player who's lynch is pushed on by scummy players for meta reasons when I'll bet a shitton that they have not read a snippet of his meta. I never said I TR'd Nero - I said it was a terrible wagon and lynch compared to Waffles and CCC.In post 1805, Grendel wrote:but I’d apperiate a defense for why you think he is town/ a bad lynch aside from that.
Read from 1211 onward - just ISO me and CCC from there.In post 1805, Grendel wrote:Can you quote any case stuff you had against him for my conveince?
This is something to add to the pile of why I am waffling a little bit on Grendel. I just don't get how this is an OK line of reasoning, especially for my biggest SR.In post 1829, Grendel wrote:Thinking in retrospect CCC is probably town because he wouldn’t have been so paranoid of me this game as scum.
And this is where Kraska is right on the money - you just said I was the SR that you could've been wrong about and then put me back on with a one-liner?In post 1834, Grendel wrote:I'm back on Hiraki.
im here famIn post 1838, MuttonChopMagic wrote:and slingshot but nobody else agrees-
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No and it's only because your voice isn't a vote. The only vote difference before you were in and after you were in was your own vote and CCC - someone who has the worst read progression ever and is getting passed as a noob when his join date was a year ago.In post 1879, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:does this make sense...? like i think it's just people finding a sheepable voice now
OK but what if they're already on there. This wagon has been stalled for days now. I'm not disagreeing with your first 3 reads (you, MCM, and Kraska) but I am defiant on those last two.In post 1879, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:the wagon as it is has 3 slots i basically know for a fact are town (me, kraska, and mcm). slingshot i had a theory on that's probably wrong but i dont think he's scum anyway, ccc strikes me as newbtown. so like... with that construction i'm not anticipating fantastic votes. the point is though that town is starting to find a center of focus in the nero wagon - maybe ccc is scum on the wagon, maybe waffles is, but there's now some unity.
Do youIn post 1879, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:like... town wants to find scum - scum will want to simulate that, and one way to do that is to argue with people over details that ultimately arent relevant. i think that's what slingshot was seeing there and i can understand the thought process but i dont exactly agree with it being scummy in this instance.honestlythink this is what Slingshot was actually thinking?-
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