Mini Normal 1917: :X Mafia (Game over!)

[Hiraki]

egopost

[Hiraki]

egopost

Hi Hiraki!

Remember me from Chosen mafia?

yes - let's hope that this game goes as smoothly as that one

oh yay, hiraki is here
he's solid, scum should fear

i don't remember you

[Hiraki]

@All

1. What is your preferred alignment?
2. On a scale of one to ten how collaborative a player are you and why?
3. How important is it to take other players personalities into account when forming reads on them?
4. What player do you have the most experience with on this roster?
5. What are you feeling as you enter this mini's D1?

scum
5
100%
gamma, i guess

nothing

I'm not going to answer Grendel's questions and it would be best if no one else did either

there is nothing wrong with answering them, they at least start conversation

don't understand this early game cheetory wagon

VOTE: NotTheRealPaul

ECHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

this is different from the Pg 1 posts tbh

I don't know why you are reading so heavily into me, like you want to paint me as mafia. Getting scummy vibes from you.

@all: plz post your opinions on this post and this phrase in general within the next 24 hours before i use my ability 'nothin personnel' to kill you, ty

I refuse to believe that you are a real person sorry

ooo perfect

anyway, goodnight, I can see the makings of a long troll game here where people harp on little details without context...hope it improves.

feel free to rag on people with your may 31 join date

I think NotTheRealPaul is probably scum. The selfvote + questionnaire answering felt like a really bad attempt to fit in/insert self into game and their post was more or less an isolated island that didn't touch on what was being discussed around them. This is scummy because mafia find it way easier to put themselves into a game through easy to fake stuff like selfvote jokes or answering NAI questions rather than put themselves in the midst of real discussion.

VOTE: NotTheRealPaul

PERFECT

I don't get Mutton's voting progression - this is something I will do right after this post.

I'm sure Mafia would love a quicklynch on Day One. Less time to talk, to make and consider reads, to act and react, to allow Town time to work.

wow what GARBAGE

because it's boiling down to it, I don't think there's anything wrong with DRK disparaging the 5 question thing from Grendel but I think his attempt was to create a discussion around it. It's really NAI and just annoying but I can respect the attempt pretty hard.

No, I don't. I do think that they'll grab it with both hands if it falls into their lap, though.

OK but that's why you're the only one voting Klick - you understand this, no?

TripleC is probably my strongest townread atm ftr.

Why? He's said nothing AI

wrong.gif

I actually think notsure's actions aren't objectively that bad and a lot of the reads wrt him are clouded by dislike

This kind of sums up what I was trying to say before

i don't mean it but im ignoring paul posting because...? don't even have a read on him just can't get a read on him

I think notsure is town because he has this air of "I'm right fools and if you disagree you're just bad at mafia" that is both unnatural to a scum (who knows for sure that they are wrong and fake) and also very hard to fake.

I disagree highly and it actually REALLY reminds me of my very very early scumgame where I made X + Y = scum. It works because it's at least convincing for the same reasoning that you're TRing him. The parts where he just says "well that's what I think" really hits that ping hard.

"why would scum do this" has caused many a town to lose

opposite too

There's two parts to what I don't like about Gamma's play here. The first is that I see no indication that he's expended any mental effort on trying to figure out anyone's alignment. He's poked at people a few times, but not in ways that seem to probe at alignment at all.

This is how Gamma plays

And the worst of it is, none of that is in any way alignment indicative, so I can't even justify voting him off on that basis.

I agree with this - I enjoy MCM's rapping but I'm not getting much for it.

i feel like this is probably one of my worst catch-up posts which will 100% need elaboration - im pretty confident in the following:

town: Accountant, DRK
null: - anyone not listed -
scum: notsure, Paul

MCM is not a townread but I don't know if he's scum yet, post with that coming right up (i.e. probably tomorrow) ; i also need to look at this backhand stuff and a VC before voting

[Hiraki]

and what if i did

you gonna fight me

[Hiraki]

Because at one point you said you liked Accountant's attack on me, then you said you were ignoring my posts because you had no read on me, and at he end I was in your scum pile, all in one post.

Correct - not sure what you're not getting here.

You may be new to the game but that doesn't mean that you can't act scummy.

[Hiraki]

Reason why: He's being dodgy and appears to half-ass pay attention to people he has put in the spotlight. It shows he's not really fully-invested in what he's saying and yes I do think he's scum.

mb im thinking too highly of notsure rn

oh no now there is a lot of pressure

should I make up some scum reads? will that make it go away?

And this is the epitome of Paul posting that I just cannot shake a SR off. This post and the last post reek of forced reactions. I believe that Paul is playing this way because he thinks that as town this is the best way to react under pressure. However, since he isn't town, he is unaware of how to actually act under pressure normally.

Haven't caught up yet, or don't want to? Whatcha thinking?

what??????

You shouldn't have such lofty expectations of N_M.

I think this was directed to Backhand, just to clarify the record.

This indicates you aren't paying attention to things. It's a proven fact that scum don't have to read the Game as closely as they know everyone's alignment.

whoever told you this was wrong and bad at the game

I read this and thought Gamma stated it incorrectly. I think it's more that they are more likely to slip up about knowing everything and therefore don't keep everything in mind. I don't quite 100% abide to it either but it's not as abnormal as the original statement.

Alright, first of all, I was considering unvoting now that we're at 4 votes on Paul, but it's interesting that he says I misread or didn't read what DRK posted, but makes no actual case about it...Funny cause I don't remember that being true, other than misinterpreting what was said because I was annoyed. Not sure how that makes me your high scumread right now...unless I'm your best bet at a deflection.

old scum me would never make such an insinuating post - SR is off the table for now

I think DRK is the most experienced here.

Oh and Gamma's kind of pinging me a little bit.
That's a thing.

Honestly getting TRs from Gamma, why does this keep happening

3 things i wanna go over after this short catch-up in the next post

A) backhand posting
B) MCM vote progression (as mentioned previously)
C) whatever else was mentioned previously

[Hiraki]

MCM -

I wrote a lot about Grendel but then threw it all out once MCM townread him. I only have one question there - can you emphasize where you saw Grendel posting take a turn for the better and how?

After that, everything is very clear. I think when reading every post, MCM's posts can become very very very weird, especially due to the post-restriction (regardless of whether or not it is self imposed). Clear TR and anyone struggling to read him should ISO him. I think the vote progression stuff pinged around the Raya vote and the quick switch but it is completely justified.

Backhand -

Upon reading the thread the first time, I thought there was something very obvious that Backhand was doing. I do agree that he does not have a great amount of substantial content but I also think cheetory is in that category and half the playerbase is TRing him - not for bad reasons either. I don't see it from the ISO. Just a lot of null points that I don't agree with (especially the MCM stuff and N_M stuff). However, that's not to say that there is a clear effort to try and sort out if his vote is on scum or not. 212 and 223 are very very civil posts from someone looking for answers. I can't TR because I can't agree with the method used but I definitely cannot SR either.

Which means that at this point I really want to examine the votes on the wagon -

@Grendel - is Post 184 the only basis for the SR on Backhand?

@Accountant - can you tell how Post 318 pinged you?

I don't like how 3 of my TRs have voted this same person and I really don't understand any of the votes (excluding MCM). Could just be me but I am entirely doubtful on that part.

[Hiraki]

I think notmafia should participate in the game, since we've gotten one post from the slot the whole game. Not sure why that's confusing.

Not so much confusing as it is a little outrageous to demand, regardless of it being N_M.

Don't think I understand what this means!

I usually SR Gamma regardless of his role but for the last few games I've been TRing, again, regardless of his role.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki, a replacement comes in and votes for himself, its outrageous to ask for more?

Based on the player, yes.

[Hiraki]

Notsure, if I could offer you some free parting advice, get thicker skin.

Sincerely,
Someone Who Doesn't Have Thick Skin

[Hiraki]

@Hiraki

btw what is with the stylistic changing in you posting style? Your wording feels much looser and off the cuff then that other game we played together, and that one game I spectated.

usually i have two types of posting, I tried to get rid of it but it kind of came back and I decided that I'm not gonna let it die anymore

the stuff that you're talking about is usually very very off the cuff, as you noted, is just that I'm reviewing something and want to get something out fast - clearly the more intricate posting has its benefits but sometimes i just really need to get something out. you can trust me in that there's only one person typing here

466 shows the contrast where I have very very very clear thoughts and then the same off the cuff posting, it's just me being me tbh

thought about it. not sure slot is close to lock town now I think
that's a gross replace, yes, but scum doing that there would be 1000 times more stink

What is this talking about?

Okay, now this is starting to look suspicious. Your readslist was close to mine, which had been posted before yours, and now you're saying you 'forgot' why you Townread someone on that same list?

This is terrible.

553 doesn't sit well with me either.

Wow - didn't see the Accountant replace coming until I did my research. Yikes.

Vote: CCC

I think I'll start here today, especially based on recent postings.

[Hiraki]

Looking at the VC, I am A-OK with my vote because I hate all of the other wagons.

[Hiraki]

Okay, now this is starting to look suspicious. Your readslist was close to mine, which had been posted before yours, and now you're saying you 'forgot' why you Townread someone on that same list?

This is terrible.

553 doesn't sit well with me either.

Wow - didn't see the Accountant replace coming until I did my research. Yikes.

Vote: CCC

I think I'll start here today, especially based on recent postings.

Because I'm starting to suspect that Gamma Emerald (playing Mafia) copied my readslist, juggled a few names in the middle, and presented it as his own, instead of generating his own fake reads?

Do you think this is a reasonable argument?

[Hiraki]

Looking at the VC, I am A-OK with my vote because I hate all of the other wagons.

Why don't you like the other wagons?

I've gone over Blackhand. N_M isn't worth a vote

yet

. PP seems very opportunistic. Don't have a problem with your playing yet and same with Nero.

tl;dr I don't SR anyone who's being wagoned at the current moment

[Hiraki]

PP seems very opportunistic.

Seems as though a great chance for a wagon is waiting for you right here.
(:

OK but there's nothing wrong with PP or his predecessor.

I don't see how I'm opportunistic...explain?

OK - sorry, if this is what you thought Cheetory then fair game, my bad on the way I wrote it.

I think the

people

on the wagon are being very opportunistic. I don't think you've done anything to warrant a vote.

I don't see how I'm opportunistic...explain?

I think they were saying that your wagon is opportunistic.

Ah...k...thx...since when is two votes a wagon?

Sorry that I needed the official three votes to comment on something as if it's a wagon!!!!!11 >>>>>>>>>>:

I think I've stopped reading Grendel's posts and I don't know why.

They can be dry and long.

[Hiraki]

oh i thought there were three gamma posts

that's cool

MCM - how do you feel about DRK's postings? mostly asking you this since you're probably here

[Hiraki]

THANK YOU GAMMA

[Hiraki]

nothing happened but if you want me to comment on nothingness

1) that dayvig probably detracted my attention to this game rather than brought more attention to it

2) Grendel has me low on his reads-list because I pinged an RQS scumtell which are clearly never wrong, as Grendel put it

3) amished tell is super dumb

[Hiraki]

Interesting that this is the point you pick at. I would have thought you'd have something to say about my including null player in my lynch pool.

no, I don't really look at other players in your

null

pool

like really??????? i've been having hinges that this is normal town meta for you grendel but i'm starting to feel that's a little absurd for some of the arguments you're making

I remember you chewing me out for voting a tertiary scum read over a primary one in chosen mafia. Your thought process is not town Hiraki.

ONE GAME

I'M SURE THE PROCESS REPEATS --

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=70964 - oops, looks like I tunneled the entire game on a player that did almost the SAME thing and was almost lynched for it, whoops!! Definitely must've been scumHiraki there!!!

If you're going to effectively try to use meta on me, maybe use a couple of games that you might happen to not be in??? Or that were 6 months ago???

CCC

OK nope, now I'm going FULL BLOWN

why is CCC this high?

DRK

Yeah this one DEFINITELY needs some explaining past meta

Not_Mafia

and you BETTER BELIEVE that this one is going to need 100% more explaining as a leaning SR for someone with a meta like N_M

I'm not saying he's a bad lynch. I'm just saying you're going to have to justify the read. Post-Edit: I'm OK with hammering him after he explains the stuff he talked about the cheetory stuff that apparently no one else sees; same with nero

like I said drks catchup was fine so yea he can stay

did we read the same one

Has anyone played with scum Gamma Emerald? I was told earlier that a thing I pointed out about him was something he does as town, but is it a towntell for him or a nulltell?

null, gamma pokes as scum and town - the poking is less consistent as scum but i don't think it's anything noticeable in-game, per se?

CCC is my 4th biggest scumread

ignore the shit about your bad catch-up LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I'm not voting anywhere else if that's all Not_Mafia intends to post.
(:

200% Agree

This is a reason to unvote

[Hiraki]

like really??????? i've been having hinges that this is normal town meta for you grendel but i'm starting to feel that's a little absurd for some of the arguments you're making

I didn't really read over this post so here's a post-edit

I think the absurdism actually creates a larger TR for me on Grendel rather than what the post is implying, after a solid re-read, that the arguments being absurd would lead to scum Grendel

[Hiraki]

What if I told you that it was mostly just how I felt?
And that I feel like articulating how I felt would probably just underwhelm you?

Doesn't make me feel better.

Was there some point that you elaborated on DRK/CCC apparently being scumbutts?

CCC yes, DRK is a new read that I can't formulate yet still

Having glanced at Gamma's scumMeta, it seems like he asks a lot of vapid and not really useful questions as scum and that's more or less lining up with here. Like he cares more about how he's perceived, vs just trying to find scum. If you disagree you should be hitting me in the face with why.

I think he, unfortunately, does this as town. It's usually the response that follows that demonstrates if he's town or scum, I can go into this, if you want?

Also don't really know why you're shading Paul's comment.
He really strikes me as town lhf.

Not slot indicative.

[Hiraki]

Slingshot's latest content hasn't been great either. I'm OK with either of those wagons. Kraska is redeeming Gamma's slot but I still am pretty sure based on my Gamma reads.

[Hiraki]

I literally am voting CCC, I didn't reduce my read on him

[Hiraki]

dont play the omniscient card

i don't actually like that reaction to a post that has nothing to do with CCC and you getting mad because the post has nothing to do with CCC

[Hiraki]

1090 and 1092 are not funny jokes

[Hiraki]

Bad!=Scum.
Let's wagon CCC.
You were all about that shit earlier all like "fuk u cheet u shuldnt townread ccc"
and now I'm all like "ok sure I will listen to you".

4/5

[Hiraki]

hmm hmm hmm

[Hiraki]

I went back and checked - you're scumreading me because I thought Gamma had copied my readslist?

I HAVE LITERALLY NEVER SAID THIS

[Hiraki]

I can switch to kraska but I won't feel good about it

[Hiraki]

Soooo
Vote Nero
Come on guys

credibility falling super hard

i'm gonna need a bit more substance from the Nero people - maybe I missed it somewhere? His opinions are out there but not particularly scummy.

part of why i haven't liked nero is because early on i had reservations about accountant that i never expressed because having me + accountant around was keeping me honest with myself because of how we were playing but at times it really did seem like they were just drawing conclusions that were convenient

inb4 "isn't that what accountant always does"

I wasn't going to say the last part but the fact that you say that makes your argument very uneasy and more probably wrong in my eyes.

But it's not as though your activity hasn't been a little sparse right?
So, when you come in and you respond to things pertaining to you, it can kind of come across like you're only popping up when you need to defend yourself.

yucky argu--

I don't know if I put stock in that, but I can see someone else doing that.

why on EARTH is everyone in the nero wagon just OK with discrediting their argument like two seconds later and not OK with voting their ACTUAL SCUMREAD????

Nero, maybe this is just your game, but you don't really reply in a way that screams "engage with me" so much as "if you vote for me I am going to yell at you until you stop." Saying that you have only come in to defend yourself is not totally fair, but its not made up either.

Nero has MUCH more credibility than you bud

I could lynch slingshot because I'm tired of his shitty pointless potshot playstyle?
(':

Oh fun!

You should do that!

when endgame shows CCC & Slingshot scum, you can all suq my dick tbh

why do you ask questions? why do you feel? why do you think? how come this thing is this way? how come I do what whatn wherent how who am I?

beautiful posting

Then I have presumably completely misunderstood what you meant back here:

that quote LITERALLY SAYS NOTHING OF THAT SORT

I disagreed WITH your reads-list and a SLEW of other things. The fact that the post that says that I don't like one of your posts is your biggest target for me is just flat-out the easiest cop out in the game. Here are other things I ACTUALLY said about you.

For reference, here is post 553:

I explained NTRP in a past post

Could you perhaps link the post in question?

I dropped that case and bumped him up one spot
Mutton is my lowest now

Fair enough, reads do change. (If you could explain your read on Mutton, too, that would be great).

DRK I feel their pushes are genuine but I don't really regard that as grounds for a hard townread. I've made pushes on things I legitimately believed were scummy as scum before.
Notsure is just obvious newbtown. Not much to say there. I could point out specific post I like if you really want.

Hmmmmm. I think that pointing out specific posts you like would be a really good idea. "Obvious newbtown" is a very easy thing to say when you don't really know what the case is.

If I say that this post is bad, then why on earth wouldn't I also give credit to Gamma???

Also why did it take you 5 years for you to actually comment on this and then just presume what I'm talking about?

Also why did you ignore the several other posts in my ISO that clearly call out your bad play????

Unfortunately, even after all of this, I will, as promised:

Unvote, Vote: Kraska

[Hiraki]

That is L-1 with a 4 hour deadline

[Hiraki]

That's not very clear from the context, at least the first part.

The second part was kind of clear which is why I quoted that post too.

[Hiraki]

N_M help me please, I like to think in 3's and I still got a slot for scum - can you please

or ANYONE

please help me with Nero with something other than META META META

[Hiraki]

@hikari what exactly do u need help with? im confused

The current Nero Cain scumreads.

[Hiraki]

Vote: Slingshot

A much better and favorable wagon. Don't worry, I know CCC is on it. When he drops his vote, I'm not moving mine.

[Hiraki]

One is a claimed PR, the other one is being scummy - I have no clue how it is more favorable either!!!!

[Hiraki]

a) where your head is at on Nero?

u kidding me bro

b) Why is Slingshot scum?

Filler to the next level, only relevant thing said in the game was defending N_M after faking a vigshot on him. All of his reads are unsubstantiated and don't make much sense in the long-run.

[Hiraki]

"you should be trying to work with me here"

- man who denies elaborating on nero read

[Hiraki]

I don't even think anything in my post was blowing you off as much as stating that I've spoken about this and if you want specifics, you should read my posts.

[Hiraki]

whateverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr lol

[Hiraki]

Me and transcend also never agree

[Hiraki]

Can u not be childish? Thx

More of a critique on how Cheetory will do the same thing and then just try to disparage my play by just saying "I don't know" when I've clearly told him where to look.

If I TR'd him, then I wouldn't ask for reasons to vote him. And excuse me if I'm a little frustrated at this wagon when I've asked since

Day 1

about the reasoning on this wagon (Pg. 54 to be exact and I was quoting things from Pg. 50 in that! I've been asking about this for 16 pages and haven't been satisfied! I must be TRing him super hard to keep asking about it!!!!!!!) and here's where I'm at:

1) Kraska continuing to say that he or nero is scum because wagon stuff on D1 / meta -

that's an ignorable argument(s)

2)

NTRP isn't an option or I might go for him... I could also see myself going for Nero.

This bullshit which in context is really annoying considering that CCC hard scumread both N_M and Kraska BEFORE conceding here and voting WITH them while SRing Nero. I tried to do URLs to make this not messy but I am such shit at that shit. This is all in CCC's ISO.

Keep in mind that CCC, in argument with me, called his D1 play shit and D2 he's just going to continue with those D1 reads! Yay!

3) N_M hasn't said shit which is actually getting annoying at this point. I hate to say it but I honestly make an effort not to play games with him because of this. Saying "this is Nero scum" is not helpful to anyone and honestly gets me to this aggravated state where I'm borderline hard defending Nero and next post someone will ACTUALLY say something convincing and make all of this not worth my time.

4)

just a Nero lynch to do

GREAT

I'm SURE I'll find something here!!!!!!

5) Slingshot -

So why doesn't this seem like town Nero then?

In the games I've played/seen with you as Town, you acted very different.

META - GREAT; I LOVE WHEN A CASE IS SOLELY ON META!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If anything, doing this has strengthened my top scumreads on Waffles and CCC by a million. While a lot of the shit in this game isn't explained to a reasonable extent, the thoughtfulness into both of their reads is severely lacking.

[Hiraki]

if you wanna add 6, it'd be cheetory and how he literally does not have a grasp on nero but was willing to vote because...???????

[Hiraki]

if you're going to try and insult me and say that I live in my own bubble, then please don't get butthurt when I throw some of your own shade back at you

[Hiraki]

yeah gonna need quotes on where you said that because you better believe i just checked your ISO for the 15th time for:

A) anything past a meta read

B) "i wouldn't vote him for his meta"

[Hiraki]

don't waste my time means don't waste my time - if you said something, own up to it

A) Find me those meta reads.

I agree this doesn't seem like Town Nero, but do you have anything else?

In the games I've played/seen with you as Town, you acted very different.

here's a new one - find me any instance where you accuse Nero of doing something scummy that is NOT meta reading - go ahead, I'll wait, like I said before I've read your ISO multiple times and the fact that I know it better than you worries my SR to actually be a VI read

Then later I said I'm not voting him.

And here you are now! Voting him! Reasons stated were...meta related!!!!!!

[Hiraki]

I'm not arguing with waffles if his refutation to my arguments show a reflection of how my arguments are somehow flawed (which i will get into later that that's just flat out bogus) when he hasn't shown anything in promotion of his own when I've repeatedly asked him for those quotes

Like i said in my last post, they aren't there because they don't exist

[Hiraki]

VOTE: nero

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I think it would be cool if everyone picked a side between nero and waffles (not necessarily with a vote, we don't *have* to pick one of them), but a little commitment. DRK and Grendel in particular.

Why DRK & Grendel in particular?

@Hiraki those weren't scum reads. I noted he was acting differently and that was all.

OK so then if he wasn't acting like townNero, what Nero was he acting like?

If I have a box of cookies and you say "I don't want any of these cookies", then you can't just come back and say after having a bag of cookies in your hand "well I didn't say that I wanted cookies either!!" - that's just weird

The second point is all what I wrote in my phone post. The burden on proof here is on you when I have everything you talked about regarding Nero and you're trying to honestly say that I didn't state my case earlier.

[Hiraki]

don't talk about the last point and act like there wasn't another post tyvm

[Hiraki]

/wow/

[Hiraki]

So. It seems that Not_Mafia would, at the very least, be a most informative lynch; proving, for sure, one way or another, whether he's scum or not should allow us to focus our future scumhunting very, very precisely.

yes congratulations CCC, you've clearly defined the reasoning that N_M is lynched, regardless of role, in most of his games - great job

If someone TRs CCC at this point, I really need to hear your bullshit

[Hiraki]

MCM lemme help you help me help you

(please)

[Hiraki]

Another Nero meta read vote! Wow!

[Hiraki]

hiraki if "his questions dont really seem to do anything but nitpick, he's passive, and kind of a wet noodle" isn't a sufficient case or something you can agree with wrt to nero how would you feel about a grendel lynch

I want to address this thoroughly -

If you can find me something that demonstrates that the qualities of

-Passiveness
-Don't really do anything but nitpick

that equate to scum then I would LOVE to know because that is LITERALLY what I try to do in games since it works for me and I can guarantee you that I don't flip scum every game.

About Grendel, I think I would need to read more. I really hated his early game content but I didn't SR him then. His lack of motivation/time now isn't helping with my ability to obtain a read on him. As said previously, I'm pretty set on CCC and Waffles at this point and as much as I'd love to find number 3 right now, I'm pretty committed there.

please read my posts again and tell me i'm voting nero for meta

VOTE: Nero Cain

also kraska was obvtown and a complete waste of a PR but i cant really complain because it means i'll have to save my breath and not have to make a bunch of meta wallposts that'll be ignored again like last time

bunch of meta wallposts that'll be ignored again like last time

Surely this is only one time!

nero can you link me a town game of yours where you were this wishy washy and uninterested in scumhunting?

Oh! I'm sure that asking for something that has nothing to do with this game or arguments related to this game mean that he is scumreading him for reasons inside of this game!

Yup! Can't tell how I thought you were voting Nero for meta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grendel's reads' progression is non existent. It really reads like he's starting from conclusions and making his way back

I agree with this but I'm not sure if it's inherently scummy or the position of someone who is "replaying" the game. I can go into what I mean by that if that's needed.

but im pretty sure non-meta reasons to scumread nero have been brought to the table and even if they havent before my replace in i've pushed nonmeta stuff so?

I have been asking since Page 50 and no one has answered me. I would love for one person to get back to me on this.

[Hiraki]

Surely this is only one time!

i was talking about kraska not nero there

but ok i'll address your stuff

it's not very clear and either way, i'm still not wrong - your ISO isn't that long, I did read it you know

[Hiraki]

Hiraki- lean Town

i can tell you that i changed nothing in my behavior so I'm sure you have such good reasoning here

[Hiraki]

I agree with kraska and that's with the knowledge that we have vastly different opinions of this game.

@giga - I will admit there's more there than what I first read after seeing your post and I will address it thoroughly later (latest tomorrow night) but some of it still just doesn't fit to me, you know? Especially that questioning stuff - there's an early part of your wall where I think we just fundamentally think there's a difference in the ability of questions to obtain answers.

[Hiraki]

if that's the case then i'd like nero to explain the point of most of those questions

I think I'm OK with this too. Good time to check if I'm actually defending town.

Question for you then - do you think the nature of this wagon being formed has scum on it or a bunch of VIs? Regardless of your personal opinions, there are some terrible votes here.

like it's fine to be like "ok i have a completely different opinion than this person but that doesn't make them scum" but i'm not really seeing the town narrative for grendel's thought process and feeling this way insinuates that you at least are waffling?

I'm not going to say I'm not waffling because I don't read Grendel correctly. His playstyle is very different from mine and is much more conservative and proper per se? His early posting about me being scum irked me the wrong way because it was complete bullshit but he kind of dropped it for now so...?

Looking back at it one more time, I'm going to double down on the weird opinion stuff. I don't get how his RQS tells are anything other than voodoo and I'd expect a player like Grendel to realize that EXCEPT that it's Grendel so he does a lot of that stuff. It's NAI even though it should be AI.

Here are some examples of what I mean:

Muttons dynamic also started changing dynamically with his next posts. I'm gnawing on what that means currently.

Gamma hasn't really done anything that looks like reaching for town credit, or trying to appear to be putting more work in then he is. Maybe the closest are the few times he stood up for my entrance in the game, and I think he would have done that as either alignment.

I also don't think that Gamma is this casual as scum. He doesn't seem at all concerned with the noose.

There's is the possibility I'm wrong. I can't claim to be great at meta reading Gamma.

I added a bold for emphasis here.

He is playing kinda bad rn, but I'm cleaving the baby in two and gonna say that it's not scummy bad.

with nero i get a similar impression, like there's a "gotcha!" kind of feel for how he deals with his scumreads but then there's little follow through to get interest in their lynches

I have no problem with a meta case - let's be clear here. I have a problem with a meta case that has no in-game reasoning (from several players) and that hasn't actually brought up any feasible examples. I think the only one brought up was a small discussion about Civ Mafia (something I'll dare not read) which isn't really a great example in any case. It's like how Grendel literally threw a scumread on me because he's watched two games with me and then I literally quoted a game where I've done similar behavior as town. The response? Definitely didn't talk about those two games I was in!

with the stuff on me, I guess that makes sense? like you have a point where that "technically correct" kind of mindset usually comes from scum since it's easier to argue a perspective that you know is true and dont need to lie/misrep/show how informed you are to prove it which i kind of mentioned earlier

I have no clue what you're trying to say here as much as that you think that it's easier for scum to not lie rather than to lie. I don't get how you could effectively use this as a way to find scum when it's also an effective way to find town.

I hate that my top SR is just gonna get a pass for "bad play" by multiple players and votes Nero. That's just fine.

but I’d apperiate a defense for why you think he is town/ a bad lynch aside from that.

OK - he is a player who's lynch is pushed on by scummy players for meta reasons when I'll bet a shitton that they have not read a snippet of his meta. I never said I TR'd Nero - I said it was a terrible wagon and lynch compared to Waffles and CCC.

Can you quote any case stuff you had against him for my conveince?

Read from 1211 onward - just ISO me and CCC from there.

Thinking in retrospect CCC is probably town because he wouldn’t have been so paranoid of me this game as scum.

This is something to add to the pile of why I am waffling a little bit on Grendel. I just don't get how this is an OK line of reasoning, especially for my biggest SR.

I'm back on Hiraki.

And this is where Kraska is right on the money - you just said I was the SR that you could've been wrong about and then put me back on with a one-liner?

and slingshot but nobody else agrees

im here fam

[Hiraki]

does this make sense...? like i think it's just people finding a sheepable voice now

No and it's only because your voice isn't a vote. The only vote difference before you were in and after you were in was your own vote and CCC - someone who has the worst read progression ever and is getting passed as a noob when his join date was a year ago.

the wagon as it is has 3 slots i basically know for a fact are town (me, kraska, and mcm). slingshot i had a theory on that's probably wrong but i dont think he's scum anyway, ccc strikes me as newbtown. so like... with that construction i'm not anticipating fantastic votes. the point is though that town is starting to find a center of focus in the nero wagon - maybe ccc is scum on the wagon, maybe waffles is, but there's now some unity.

OK but what if they're already on there. This wagon has been stalled for days now. I'm not disagreeing with your first 3 reads (you, MCM, and Kraska) but I am defiant on those last two.

like... town wants to find scum - scum will want to simulate that, and one way to do that is to argue with people over details that ultimately arent relevant. i think that's what slingshot was seeing there and i can understand the thought process but i dont exactly agree with it being scummy in this instance.

Do you

honestly

think this is what Slingshot was actually thinking?

[Hiraki]

I will admit that Nero's responses are really subpar upon reading the argument (i'm weird, I read upwards a lot rather than chronologically - it serves no in-game purpose and actually causes headaches more than anything)

[Hiraki]

wellwerewaiting.gif

[Hiraki]

My reads this game are shit, I'm tempted to vote Vedith solely on the basis of "you were so fucking wrong, just shut up and suck it you twat" but I'd like more time to do work

[Hiraki]

Do i need to write something comprehensive again?

[Hiraki]

no no no - im gonna be stubborn here

CCC votes Vedith and asks for explanation before voting - how does that get a pass?

[Hiraki]

no no no - im gonna be stubborn here

CCC votes Vedith and asks for explanation before voting - how does that get a pass?

I don't see what you're getting at here. Yes, I am voting Vedith. Would you like me to present my case on him?

No - that's not the point. If he's scum, why do you want his explanation?

I'm also not satisfied enough to put down a vote on Vedith at the moment. I know I'm tunneling but I don't think I'm doing it obtrusively at this point.

[Hiraki]

I think my lynch is inevitable, honestly. Your lynch doesn't delay it.

[Hiraki]

Like I'm not gonna sit here and say that there are not tangible reasons for advocating for my lynch - they aren't bad ones either. My read on Nero was wrong even though there still hasn't been tangible reasoning brought to the table (at least before Gigabyte) and half of the votes are sheep as fuck. I 100% disagree with the comments that it was a full town wagon and the signs for that are neon at this point.

The one thing I will do is make damn sure that people know where to go after they do lynch me.

[Hiraki]

if you think that i am that poor of a player vedith, then i've learned how much you think of me - i'm not going through all of this but 575 is absolutely not fake, I can link at least 5 games where I do the same exact thing

vedith's reads assume that everyone who defended nero must be scum and that's the end all, that's a very naive way of thinking about the game

[Hiraki]

ok but how much do you apologize to me in the post-game for being wrong?

[Hiraki]

your analysis wasn't wrong that i don't have a strong read either way toward him but by there's a shorter list of people who can actually be scum so he's maybe on it. I don't think /we/ dictate things anymore either - not really ever in this game tbh. i also think grendel's psuedo push on giga right now is 10 times worse than what you're saying though

[Hiraki]

i think to win the game, the best route is

Grendel -> CCC (only here because I realize that I need to start compromising) -> Backhand -> Cheetory (unless he's a neighbor now?)

[Hiraki]

don't be an ass now

[Hiraki]

Vote: Grendel

[Hiraki]

i think to win the game, the best route is

Grendel -> CCC (only here because I realize that I need to start compromising) -> Backhand -> Cheetory (unless he's a neighbor now?)

So I'm your only legit scum read?

clearly not what it states

[Hiraki]

i thought that's what happened, 2051 shows that. moreso interested in the first half rather than the backhalf; i doubt you or vedith are actually mafia

after backhand should be u -> vedith

[Hiraki]

Backup Motion Detector

[Hiraki]

if you think that i use meta in forming my fake claims, you should look at all of the scum games that i don't create fake claims for

[Hiraki]

Since when does town power become so pessimistic that they'll hang?

I'm a back-up.

Scanning his iso I think that this was the first time he referenced N_M's cliam. Doesn't sound like somebody suspicious of a faux back-up claim to me.

This doesn't even make sense.

Maybe its just me, but if I had power role that could be used to help town I'm probably not talking like I'm getting lynched. ever.

keyword could -

explain to me how me - person who just came off of hardcore defending Nero who flips scum has any credibility with any power role?

i have no reason to try and defend against claims that because i claimed therefore the game is unbalanced and /my claim/ is the one that is most unbalanced because of non balance reasons

[Hiraki]

pretty sure =/= actual

other than your godly rqs tells that are about to be blown out, everyone is clearly looking at me under a stringent lens for those actions

and no - that post had nothing to do with back-ups, i'm not a setup person and i'd rather catch people being scum for being scummy - i also know that the mod likes to make weird setups, since setup stuff is probably one of my weaker attributes, i'd rather have someone more experienced handle that stuff

[Hiraki]

The whole reason I barely engaged you directly this game is b/c your insistent on dragging ppl who have their own opinians.

I don't think questioning people on their opinions is dragging them down by any means. I also don't intend to start an argument here so I'm gonna drop this.

Wait Hiraki who do u scumread rn?

Said this earlier today.

Hiraki being this demotivated by Neroflip doesn't seem real

I can tell you very easily that I am trying to muscle my way back into my norm - if you feel this way then I have done a better job then I currently mentally believe I am performing

Forgot to add im also a neighbor.

Does this mean there are 2 neighborhoods?

[Hiraki]

because neighbors can still be town or scum?

[Hiraki]

@hiraki are u saying ur in a neighborhood too? I was neighbors with pp/klik the D1 lynch

Cheetory/MCM/Kraska are in a neighborhood too, IIRC.

[Hiraki]

let's go through the hiraki phase now, this day could literally not get any slower

[Hiraki]

you're going to case me after implying a CCC scumread cheetory? really??

[Hiraki]

which also means that i've been bussing CCC since day 1

[Hiraki]

i think you would at least consider the possibility of my long term game as scum versus my short term game as scum

[Hiraki]

yeah because something new happened - don't see you talking about the same thing with MCM

[Hiraki]

it's not even that true either, i was talking on pg 92 - i just didn't say anything on 93 because it's a bunch of grendel talking about what he's going to do

[Hiraki]

I was saying you/Grendel for at least a little while now and not a peep.

why would i argue against someone that I SR? you haven't produced anything against me to refute so no i'm not going to do much

Why are you even voting for Grendel right now?

PoE

Why haven't you voted for CCC your scumread yet?

wagon isn't big enough - been over this numerous times

[Hiraki]

again, something new

you can push your agenda as hard as you want but the truth is that the facts don't fit

[Hiraki]

where are you getting that the person i'm voting is a nullread? like 40 pages ago??

[Hiraki]

Yeah, I can - do you really want to go through this?

[Hiraki]

If you give me reads and I think they're real, I'll devote my energy for the rest of today to getting CCC lynched.
If you're town this is me trying to pull you up out of apathy into doing something.
Give me reasons why you feel like people are less likely to be scum than CCC/Grendel.
Preferably like 1-2 points for each.

Deal -

Grendel -> CCC (only here because I realize that I need to start compromising) -> Backhand -> Cheetory (unless he's a neighbor now?)

As a reminder, here is my list. I'm not going to explain any TRs on these people because I still have major grievances with their play which I have stated earlier. If you need me to also help you find them, then let me know.

This leaves:

Vedith - this is the only one i'm willing to be wrong on. I don't see scum!Vedith coming out with a wagon and pulling his rainbow reads rather than fakeclaiming something absurd in order to produce a mislynch. I also have major problems with covfefe being scum based on reads.

gigabyteTroubadour - I have a hard time reconciling the fact that Grendel would push this weirdly on a buddy by just saying that gigabyte can be scum. Additionally, I have a hard time understanding why scum wouldn't just buss rather than take the time to explain to me what I was missing at the end of D2. The chances of giga flipping town are near zero.

MuttonChopMagic - i'm not actually explaining this; gg if he's scum

NotTheRealPaul - as you already said, it's a death sentence for me now if I'm a backup to a scum PR. not really worth to actually go into my history and find everything that i've already explained about his play. the biggest thing is the transfer of my SR to a TR during D1 for him being a scummy dude and then transferring all of that scumminess into town. Once his wagon dissipates, I try to interact with him the least based on his loose lips found on D1. Therefore, I realize that this read doesn't look the most solid (and now looks WORSE because I am his back-up) but it's there either way.

kraska77 - honestly feel that she's more town than MCM at points but mainly because our opinions align more than MCM's. Looking back at my ISO, the stuff that me and Kraska were on point about was Grendel's SR on me.

[Hiraki]

Vote: CCC

[Hiraki]

I have nothing more to say - Cheetory will hammer me and the game will move on. I only wish my reads were better.

[Hiraki]

yes yes we know cheetory, you've been dreaming about this lynch for days now

[Hiraki]

i am ready to become your salvation

[Hiraki]

I have no intention of going against my wincon, you are correct

[Hiraki]

Yes, should be the opposite conclusion