Mini Normal 1929 - Game Over

[Mulch]

First things first: I joined this game partly because Io was obvious town, and I expect to be treated as such.

[Mulch]

Tchill was my top townread

[Mulch]

Steel is near lock town

[Mulch]

Mario, Steel, WhyMafia
[Everyone else]
[Llama]
Alb, Awesome, Scorpious

I'm confident that the last scum(s) is in Alb, Awesome, Scorpious. I'm assuming 3 scum based on Carc being a mafia goon, but it could possible be 2

[Mulch]

Vedith is a god btw

[Mulch]

Can someone tell me why Llama and Awesome are scum? I TR'ed both of em ;-;

Llama is fine except for this one post which dropped them in my reads like a tier alone: 714

[Mulch]

Awesome had absolute shit hedging at the end and their tone is fake as fuck

[Mulch]

First things first: I joined this game partly because Io was obvious town, and I expect to be treated as such.

lol no... like massively no.

Not with those flips. Vedith was an excellent borderline policy lynch I would do again in an instant but with the scum flip it makes things interesting since those were the top wagons.

Need to reread a bit. Probably in AUN/Io but want to make sure.

Give me your reasons.

[Mulch]

And explain 74

[Mulch]

And explain 74

714

EBWOP

[Mulch]

UNVOTE:

I remember playing with Io. She will give long winding explanations about game mechanics and why and who is scum. I believe (but not sure) that she is logical, terse and concise when town.

Well thank you for calling me logical, but I don't really know if I would fall myself concise, I will make large posts if I need to get a point across.
Also I think the game mechanic talk was unique to that game if I recall because people weren't quite understanding them.

Frankly, I'm not really sure what the point in going over how people typically play helps. Like for example, I try to keep consistent play across whatever alignment I am and I'm pretty sure most people do that as to avoid scum slipping every time they are scum due to their meta.
Plus, the rules forbid Trust Tells and going over people's meta as town vs scum seems to be encroaching on breaking that rule.
Reguardless I've only played a full game with Alban, and maybe LUV and I am Innocent but I don't remember those games. Alban I remember does this kind of thing in all games if not most that I've played with him where he wants to talk about people's behavior.

Town

This should confirm me as town btw. THis is pocketing 101.

[Mulch]

Can someone tell me why Llama and Awesome are scum? I TR'ed both of em ;-;

Llama is fine except for this one post which dropped them in my reads like a tier alone: 714

What's wrong with that post though?

It's one of the most classic scum partners in a 1v1 posts. It's not neccecarily scummy in the traditional sense but by experience it's super hard for a scum partner to take a side when it's TvS wagons, and even for scum to take a side, so asking each to provide a bulletproof list is like super LAMIST in the sense: look at me, I'm so town, I'm gonna take all the arguements and weigh them against each other, AND it allows the scum to make a decision later so they don't need to commit, which is extra bad now that carc flipped scum.

Do you feel me?

[Mulch]

UNVOTE:

I remember playing with Io. She will give long winding explanations about game mechanics and why and who is scum. I believe (but not sure) that she is logical, terse and concise when town.

Well thank you for calling me logical, but I don't really know if I would fall myself concise, I will make large posts if I need to get a point across.
Also I think the game mechanic talk was unique to that game if I recall because people weren't quite understanding them.

Frankly, I'm not really sure what the point in going over how people typically play helps. Like for example, I try to keep consistent play across whatever alignment I am and I'm pretty sure most people do that as to avoid scum slipping every time they are scum due to their meta.
Plus, the rules forbid Trust Tells and going over people's meta as town vs scum seems to be encroaching on breaking that rule.
Reguardless I've only played a full game with Alban, and maybe LUV and I am Innocent but I don't remember those games. Alban I remember does this kind of thing in all games if not most that I've played with him where he wants to talk about people's behavior.

Town

This should confirm me as town btw. THis is pocketing 101.

That's just WIFOM. Why are you so interested in proving yourself town? I believed that slot to be town .. but now I have my reservations

Why do you think WhyMafia?

[Mulch]

I'm still convinced Alban is scum

Agreed.

[Mulch]

And not at all on Awesome. Can see Scorpius though

Per awesome: what do you think about the heding at the scummyness at EoD?

[Mulch]

Whymafia you are super obvious town through meta so I want you to work with me here. I would say 80% that your town right now.

[Mulch]

If llama is going to tunnel me today I am happy to engage but I think there is a high probability of townVtown. Much higher chance in Alb/Awesome/Scorp

[Mulch]

First things first: I joined this game partly because Io was obvious town, and I expect to be treated as such.

lol no... like massively no.

Not with those flips. Vedith was an excellent borderline policy lynch I would do again in an instant but with the scum flip it makes things interesting since those were the top wagons.

Need to reread a bit. Probably in AUN/Io but want to make sure.

I can see this coming from villa because usually villa first reaction to me declaring myself conftown is to push back even though it's NAI/towny for me.

The part about the policy lynch is a little scummy imo because it's already looking like you are subtly trying to give an excuse for your behavior on Vedith. nobody really brought it up, or gave you heat, so why are you already trying to rationalize it?

[Mulch]

How about Scorpios.
We can do a day where I pick the lynch, then you get to pick the lynch the next day?

You fake claim and have the gall to start lining up lynches?

VOTE: Vedith

This post in particular from Scorpious to rationalize the vote on vedith is really bad

[Mulch]

One of the main things I want us to do today is try and figure out the shit votes on Vedith with VedithVCarca. I'm getting the feeling that scum didn't vote Carca in this instance ,and even if they did that's a problem for lategame

[Mulch]

I feel like the Carca flip more or less clears Llama, which is good because I didn't townread him before. Also notable: Llama's logic about Scorpious in 612 holds, so I'm inclined to think he's town as well. This leaves me leaning town on everyone. :/ My weakest tier of town reads has Scorpious, alban, and Why Mafia, so I guess I'll start here.

@WM: I would also like to know why you town-read me, especially after these flips.

@Mulch: What do you think of Scorpious's reaction to Vedith's claim?

I agree that we should be looking at the wagons yesterday. IMO the worst ones on Vedith were WhyMafia's and Scorpious's, just in terms of lame reasoning/sheeping, and none of the votes on Carca ping me except for maybe Why Mafia again. But that doesn't particularly feel like a bus, although I guess I could see it. The RVS vote on Vedith from alban is just... I don't even know what to make of that. He was pretty upset after Vedith got lynched, which felt genuine to me. Io's was a strange interaction too, but I thought the rage quit was kinda town. I might be confbiasing there, though.

Llama I felt was the driving force behind the Vedith lynch, although I also feel that he helped catch Carca? Like at one point I was scum reading Llama for attacking Carca badly, which doesn't make any sense if they're both scum.

First, I would like to ask why you are clearing llama? I don't get it there. I thought his heding was atrocious, both in that post and especially in 714, and really typical of scum in TvS wagons. I sort of liked his tone and his thought process otherwise in the game though, but why are you clearing llama for the scummiest thing imo they have done in the game?

Can you point me to the reaction from Scorpious- I just know that his vote was horrible, I don't remember the reaction.


I am townreading the bolded part. I think that it would take guts and is unlikely for carca!scumbuddy to say nonchalantly that they were scumreading Llama for attacking Carca.

One thing I would be wary of is townreading Llama for "catching" carca when they didn't push him in the first place. Again, it's near level one scum to scumread your partner and the other person but push the other and just let your partner be.

[Mulch]

In terms of WhyMafia, I think I have a pretty solid grasp on his meta. It would shock me if he flipped scum.

[Mulch]

Something about my behaviour as scum and town.
People who have played with me know this: I am a very proactive town, and a very laidback scum. Partial reason for this is coz I guess I am a transparent person irl, and my laidback game as a scum is to overcompensate the guilt and fear of getting caught. I try extra hard to not get in arguments, make excessive statements, or even try to take the game fwd.
As opposed to what Io and what a lot of other players say regarding maintaining a more even game, I have not done that coz I don't have and care for that sort of long-term vision for the game. I have more immediate concerns in a game as a town. And they are usually apparent in the way I wanna take charge and take the game fwd. I definitely don't have logical skills that help me see through, hence I rely a lot on my instinct, and they are usually not wrong. But then once the instinct tells something, I try to dissect that instinct and see if that stands the test of logic. And if it does, I go ahead with my suspicion in the form of a vote. There are certain games of me as a town which are exception to that. Where I begin as what I described, but then somewhere in the middle either I lose my interest, or I lose my centre and get confused. But the only way it works for me is if I proceed with my own reads and ways of playing the game rather than emulating someone else or going with the majority.

This post from Alban is pretty towny, but I'm struggling to find other towny things in his entire ISO. I see reads list and mechanics talk but not a lot of solving, and some of the conclusions he maks read fake.

[Mulch]

@alban: Why are you sure he's town? And what are your thoughts on Carca?

There was a substantial overlap between his reads and mine.
His tone appeared the most natural.
His claim was obviously a joke.
Plus, a scum would confuse people, not clear them up, even as a joke. Even if they give tr on a few people, clearing 3 people at once, especially in the early D1 stage is less likely to be scum.
But no, I can't be sure. For the town's sake, let's hope I am wrong.

This stuff in particular is really bad. "His tone appeared most natural" is something that is valid but also something that is REALLY easy for scum to fake. Same with reads overlapping, it's a crappy, scummy reason to townread someone, same as all the other points.

[Mulch]

To your first point- I noticed that they made the big case, which obviously looks good in retrospect, but I think it means little to none because they didn't back it up with a vote on them at the end. In fact, it makes it look almost in a negative light that they felt so strongly but were still willing to policy lynch Vedith over a theoretical strong scumread.

Let me pull up the hedging.

[Mulch]

Spoiler:

When I'm scum I usually just focus on when someone mentions me or my scumpartner, and not care about the rest of the game. ^

self

Quick question - is Self-meta a scumtell to you?

I can see scum using it more than town.

I still prefer Vedith but have increasingly no problem with Carcalilly lynch happening. What they have done this game almost perfectly describes their scum self-meta.

Both Vedith and Carcalillly are just different types of scummy.

Vedith is the "intentionally useless - adding clutter" type scum, who has done next to nothing but when they do actually start trying to play are really scummy for the most part, but with the amount of spam they add can essentially shrug off anything as a joke.

Carcalilly just seems to be detached from the game while still adding the "joking around" excuse to most of their stuff. For example they are voting alban, who apparently they thought was scum until the "fake claim" where they moved away and then forgot about moving away... and now two thirds of the way through day one are ready to "start taking things seriously".

Still think that Vedith is a slightly better lynch. Basically all they have done that shows any type of read is the joke claim, where they called a few played "confirmed town" and opened up a lynch pool without any sort of reasoning and followed through with it for enough time that it cant have been a joke that they were his scum reads. Trying to say things like "just trust me" and other statements along those lines do nothing to explain a read and at most can be reaction tests on others (but I somehow doubt there was that level of intent even if he is town). While I think most players would immediately see the claim as a joke, the fact that it was continued for so long still bothers me as there are a lot of newer players who might not be able to piece that together immediately.

Now he comes in with the Carcalilly vote late, when he basically ignored the role until I showed up and voted Vedith. First mention of them being scum since literally joke phases of the game, with no reason. It takes me starting to come down on Carcalilly before the vote shows up there.

@Carcalilly - Vedith read?
@alban - You haven't moved your vote in a long time. Still happy with it?
@MM - You aren't voting either major wagon. Basic thoughts on both?

Few other thoughts:

If Vedith or any of the players he notes as "cleared" are scum, I think Scorpious gains town points for recent posts.
One thing that is REALLY bugging me is that a lot of players seem to assume three scum. In 11P games it is very rare for there to be more than two scum. If we get to a F3 at any point, someone go back and read early thoughts to see who was implying three scum and give minor town/scum points accordingly.

So can we really just lynch Vedith? I somewhat trust that regardless of alignment Carcalilly will eventually produce some sort of reads and tells, Vedith is just backed into a corner and spouting WIFOM and trolling. What is the absolute best case with respect to Vedith here? Town that cant be trusted to contribute or make a pro-town move in the future?

Also, I initially didn't like Llama's statement about Scorpious either, but it's actually really smart - if Scorpious is scum with Vedith or one of Vedith's "clears," he knows for sure that the claim is a lie. And his posts really look like an inexperienced player who was caught off guard by the claim and feel for it. Does that make sense? That said, I agree that his play has been generally scummy.

Basically this. While I am not entirely sure if it was faked or not, scum would instantly know something is up if any of those four players is scum. If the exceedingly off chance that all are town though, while they may not know the correct approach moving forward they would know that something is wrong. Its a whole lot of WIFOM though as you have to start getting into theory of if players could intentionally present an ignorant approach to setup when they have additional information. Its basically a weaker version of the "player who forgets the open setup is town" tell.

It of course IS possible for it to be an 8:3 setup, but for that to happen you would need a very weak scum team and a stacked town. In the end you can balance it, but you are going to have a very swingy setup and its just not recommended.

Contains the stuff that's sort of giving like "here is some arguements for Vedith, here is for Carc" etc, and combined with the fact that they made that case on Carc and then ended up voting Vedith is bad.

[Mulch]

Mulch, have you read D1? Or your reads are based off VCA?

I've read day 1, (skimmed at least), I've done some Isos. I don't actually like VCA (or maybe I'm just bad at using it lol) because I think because of a lack of a standard conclusions on what is scummy or not it's easily manipulatiable by scum.

[Mulch]

I'd also loosely followed the game before I replaced IO- again, one of the reasons I came in was beacuse I knew IO was obvious town and I wasn't in the mood for a scum game atm lol

[Mulch]

Alban- explain to me why your ISO has a lack of scumhunting in it.

I'd also like you to explain more your almost ragequit. It's typically perceived as a town move but I've been seeing scum do it lately as well. What was going through your mind when you decided to leave and come back? Why were you prompted to make so much of a drastic decision?

[Mulch]

First: A serious question. Do you scumread self meta, or are you just saying that as a buzzword?

[Mulch]

The part about the policy lynch is a little scummy imo because it's already looking like you are subtly trying to give an excuse for your behavior on Vedith. nobody really brought it up, or gave you heat, so why are you already trying to rationalize it?

I have zero problem saying Vedith was in part a policy lynch. If a player is publicly going to be a nuisance and toe the line of being useless in a game I will always be on board to lynch them unless they are blindly obvious town. Worst case you lose a liability, best case scum dies. Statement is essentially a "see this is why we don't troll, lets play the game" comment.

I

This is bothering me, like a lot. This is a flat out strawman, 100%. No dispute. This is not my question at all.

[Mulch]

I do think your point about IO saying Carca and VEdith are scumscum or towntown is a pretty good point and could come from a town mentality. I can't really defend against it except to say that it's so obviously scummy that there is little chance Io would say that as actual scum partners. I mean, it's like such a blatant pre flip analysis, which is something scummy in itself, and the ramifiactions get even more scummier from Io's theoreotical PoV if Carca were ever to flip. It's like something that's scummy in theory but in practice is TWTBAW

[Mulch]

First: A serious question. Do you scumread self meta, or are you just saying that as a buzzword?

The reason I say this is because in my experience it's actaulyl been a super towny thing and a powerful thing for people to use. Scum have a lot more trouble doing self meta.

[Mulch]

@Alban- I'm going to say right now I don't really think that "I sleepwalk through day 1" will cut is in terms of you having little motiviation to sort, because it sort of appears like you are TRYING to sort day 1 but just more floating while also trying to give the appearance that you aren't. Do you understand what I'm saying?


I understand your answer to the question regarding the ragequit, but I want to know why you were SO posesses to do it based on that. Do you usually get this angry in games?

[Mulch]

And on a similar point @llama- basically, you've reiterated that you had scumreads on Vedith/policy on Vedith and Carca too, etc, but my point is mostly that you made this big stuff on Carca and then your vote basically wasn't there when it mattered and instead you opted for your policy, and that in my experience it's very often for scum to try and hedge and try to seem like they are weighing all options then choose to vote the person not their partners in the end. There's very little you can say to try to change my mind about this, although I would like to continue to hear your thoughts. (And the strawman dosen't help)

[Mulch]

And on a similar point @llama- basically, you've reiterated that you had scumreads on Vedith/policy on Vedith and Carca too, etc, but my point is mostly that you made this big stuff on Carca and then your vote basically wasn't there when it mattered and instead you opted for your policy, and that in my experience it's very often for scum to try and hedge and try to seem like they are weighing all options then choose to vote the person not their partners in the end. There's very little you can say to try to change my mind about this, although I would like to continue to hear your thoughts. (And the strawman dosen't help)

I am very pro-policy lynch. That is not at all a secret. The site needs to me more willing to policy lynch players who act like Vedith did this game.


Not even sure what you want me to say. I made my case on Vedith as what little content he had was scummy. I defended attacks on my reads that Carcalilly was scum independently of Vedith and worked even better as a artner. I got my top scum read lynched when he outwardly refused to start giving reads or doing anything else productive.

First: A serious question. Do you scumread self meta, or are you just saying that as a buzzword?

Unprompted and used defensively, self-meta is a scum tell. Its funny especially in this game since we already saw scum using it as a defense. If its theory discussion its null.

I guess I can see that your policy lynch would take preference over a scumread on Carca, etc. But I just think it's a major red flag. Again, there is not much you can say here to try and convince me of your actions, except maybe go into a little more into your mindset? It's happened in the past and nothing can really defend against it. I get what you are saying and I can understand how it could be natural thoughts to think of two scumreads and try and pit them against each other, point out each, then make the bad vote when it matterd, but it's still there.

In terms of the self meta, I just disagree. Flat out. I barely see scum doing it (yeah, Carca was an exception here).

[Mulch]

Alban I hear you loud and clear about your playstyle. Trust me, I've been there (i barely try day 1 either at least half the games). But my problem isn't really the fact you aren't trying but more the fact you seemed to try to appear like you were solving, but in fact you really weren't. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Mulch]

hello i'm probably going to look at vedith's reads now on people that arent tchill and carca and check if they are good
also tchill's i guess

Speaking of that, Vedith read Io as one of his top 4 townreads

[Mulch]

@Alban that's why there's something called UNVOTE
If you were so angry that Vedith was obvious town you should've unvoted and pushed for someone else's lynch. I don't buy you, not one bit. Sure, you were formulating cases against everyone, but you just needed one person that you believed to be scum. The fact that the voting was progressing that quickly should've alarmed you. And you hardly did anything early game to be warranted any form of town cred. And before I get called out for giving shade, I already explained his early game posts. His current posts are doing nothing to convince me otherwise. In hindsight, yes lynching him was a mistake. I'll admit that.

That's actually a really good point and something I didn't even consider when I was scumreading Alban before.

[Mulch]

wasnt scorpious online like 5 minutes ago i am 99% sure he was

also i'm still thinking of what productive things to do because i am fairly lost right now everything i knew of this game was proven to be a lie n1

I would go through all the Vedith votes and see which ones are the shittiest

[Mulch]

I'd also loosely followed the game before I replaced IO- again, one of the reasons I came in was beacuse I knew IO was obvious town and I wasn't in the mood for a scum game atm lol

This looks so fake..

It's not fake, cause it's real

[Mulch]

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as annoying .. I'm just really jittery right now XD

This is horrible self conciousness right now. Scummy.

[Mulch]

I'd also loosely followed the game before I replaced IO- again, one of the reasons I came in was beacuse I knew IO was obvious town and I wasn't in the mood for a scum game atm lol

This looks so fake..

It does ..

but by PoE I town read Mulch

Keep trying, and make a better case!

explain

[Mulch]

So far two people have called me out for IO being obvious town and that's why I replaced in. Behold:

Spoiler:

VOTE: I Am Innocent

I was holding off on this vote for a bit because I wanted to watch him, but he hasn't been here in I think it's 49 hours or so. His last post was noon Friday.
106 and 117 pinged me as being off. Like he was oddly focused on the Connect 4 thing which I thought really nothing of which felt slightly off to me,

but his post 106 is what really pinged me as he seemed to be possibly setting up for a lynch both of them and 1 of them will be scum which could would end up being a double mislynch if he was scum

, and generally I find that kind of talk about someone possibly being scum without really making an accusation to come moreso from scum.

Really this is more a FoS than a push to lynch.
I can't quite tell right now if he's scum making a joke to test the waters of a potential lynch of the two of them or town just messing around and being very into a game of connect 4.

This was one of the posts I remember reading when I decided to come in. It's amazingly analytical and it looks like they naturally formed the scumread instead of creating the read and then finding posts to back it up. The bolded part in particular is really hard to fake as scum because it means they are actively looking for chains of mislynches and subtle stuff set up by scum, when scum generally look for more obvious shit so they can back it up better and won't be questioned for it.

[Mulch]

So far two people have called me out for IO being obvious town and that's why I replaced in. Behold:

Spoiler:

VOTE: I Am Innocent

I was holding off on this vote for a bit because I wanted to watch him, but he hasn't been here in I think it's 49 hours or so. His last post was noon Friday.
106 and 117 pinged me as being off. Like he was oddly focused on the Connect 4 thing which I thought really nothing of which felt slightly off to me,

but his post 106 is what really pinged me as he seemed to be possibly setting up for a lynch both of them and 1 of them will be scum which could would end up being a double mislynch if he was scum

, and generally I find that kind of talk about someone possibly being scum without really making an accusation to come moreso from scum.

Really this is more a FoS than a push to lynch.
I can't quite tell right now if he's scum making a joke to test the waters of a potential lynch of the two of them or town just messing around and being very into a game of connect 4.

This was one of the posts I remember reading when I decided to come in. It's amazingly analytical and it looks like they naturally formed the scumread instead of creating the read and then finding posts to back it up. The bolded part in particular is really hard to fake as scum because it means they are actively looking for chains of mislynches and subtle stuff set up by scum, when scum generally look for more obvious shit so they can back it up better and won't be questioned for it.

Spoiler: some added thoughts

Like it's just deep as fuck instead of just saying it's weird the law of numbers, IO goes and realizes why it's actually scummy to them and that's because of future setting up of mislynches.

What's ironic is that I actually disagree with them that this is scummy from IaI. I think it's pretty much NAI and that it's slightly TWTBAW and attention drawing to come from scum this early.

[Mulch]

hello i'm probably going to look at vedith's reads now on people that arent tchill and carca and check if they are good
also tchill's i guess

wasnt scorpious online like 5 minutes ago i am 99% sure he was

also i'm still thinking of what productive things to do because i am fairly lost right now

everything i knew of this game was proven to be a lie n1

I'll do that!

one of the reasons I'm townreading Mario right now is because of absolutely fantastic tone. I think it's relatively towny to come in here and just say that fuck it I'm lost because it shows honesty when the scum would want to act gamesolvy. On the other hand, the fact that he has to justify it is really scummy. The bolded part is a subtle way of saying "yeah, I'm moping because I was bad day 1"= I pushed a mislynch day 1, and I was wrong day 1. It's like he is trying to highlight the persona of Mario that is devastated because he was

so

wrong day 1, except instead of doing it naturally he has to manually say, wow, it's having such a big effect on me that I'm going to just be moping.

[Mulch]

It's LAMIST in other words, in a slimyish way

[Mulch]

I'd also loosely followed the game before I replaced IO- again, one of the reasons I came in was beacuse I knew IO was obvious town and I wasn't in the mood for a scum game atm lol

This looks so fake..

It does ..

but by PoE I town read Mulch

Keep trying, and make a better case!

explain

Your slot is nowhere close to as scummy as other slots have been. Therefore I PoE town read lots of this games players

Say IO had not existed. Would you be townreading my slot right now? Do you agree with what I am saying? Do you think it's coming naturally intead of me fabricating? And also: you know my meta, why do you think that thing about seeing IO and not wanting a scum game is fake? Don't you think that would be a Mulch thing to do?

Barrage of questions, but, well, you wanted to get into the game more (towny btw) so here you are lol

[Mulch]

Although I'm not complaining about Io's obvious townyness lmao

[Mulch]

Ok, can you answer the question about how you thought my tone was fake when I said I replaced in partly because IO was obvious town?

[Mulch]

Show me the ugly posts plz

[Mulch]

We need a little spark in this game. Tchill bailed us the fuck out but this game is stagnant and nobody is trying.


One note that I mentioned ealier but I think that there is a possibiliy of 3 scum just because Carca was a mafia goon. I'm not an expert balancer at all lmao but I feel like 9 town and 2 scum is really townsided, and we already have a decently powerful power role in the vig, and carca was only a mafia goon. Unless the last scum is something like a mafia dayvig or something insanely powerful I think that it might be 8 town 3 scum and we have decent firepower.

[Mulch]

Basically any post saying that your slot is obv town. I guess it's also instinct after seeing you complain how you're obvious town when you were scum in the large normal

If it helps, I do that basically every single game as every allignment. When I'm scum it's a neat trick because usually town do it because I gain towncred, but this time if you actually look at IO and their analysitical in their posts it's actually clear they are obvious town lol.

Also, I'm a pretty good scum player, and I'm not that much of an idiot to try and do the same trick twice on you WhyMaf lol

[Mulch]

VOTE: Alban

Fine vote for now. I've been trying as of late to not vote as much in games, mostly because it's actually developed as a scumtell that I don't change votes when I am scum and I want to eliminate that weakness in my game, and also because it makes townies for some reason scumread me for switching votes? even though it should be the opposites lmao and not just for me either

[Mulch]

I know, but that game mentally scarred me hrkejcjejxbc

To be honest you pretty much nailed me as scum the entire game, so you have nothing to be ashamed of. You also nailed me in the newbie game when I was being consensus locked town too.

[Mulch]

I think we should massclaim tmrw assuming the game is still going on. Thoughts?

[Mulch]

I've been trying as of late to not vote as much in games, mostly because it's actually developed as a scumtell that I don't change votes when I am scum and I want to eliminate that weakness in my game, and also because it makes townies for some reason scumread me for switching votes? even though it should be the opposites lmao and not just for me either

What's the point of this? Like stuff like this just pings me ..
plz mulch don't do another betrayal

There's no point to it lol I was just ranting. It dosen't even apply to this game.

[Mulch]

You kept telling the neibhvor chat I was scum and Boona and pris kept convincing you otherwise

[Mulch]

I think we should massclaim tmrw assuming the game is still going on. Thoughts?

If this game doesn't get traction within 2 IRL days, I propose we do it this day phase

Disagree. The only reason why I brought it up in the first place was because tmrw, if we lynch wrong and assuming nightkill goes through, there will be 6 players alive, which could be MYLO if there are 2 scum left

[Mulch]

I think we should massclaim tmrw assuming the game is still going on. Thoughts?

If this game doesn't get traction within 2 IRL days, I propose we do it this day phase

Disagree. The only reason why I brought it up in the first place was because tmrw, if we lynch wrong and assuming nightkill goes through, there will be 6 players alive, which could be MYLO if there are 2 scum left

But what are the adverse effects to doing it now?

... it's best not to go into this type of talk. But a simple answer is that it will out the remaining town power roles when we could use a semi confirmed status in a potential myLo. And we might not have that many if there are only 2 scum, even if there are 3 scum

[Mulch]

Hence the trick situation because we don't even know if it's MyLo lmao so we don't know how to treat claims.

I guess I woulden't 100% oppose a massclaim here, but I am tentatively against it.

[Mulch]

It would have to be spontaneous because even now scum can read this and start frenetically thinking of a claim. I don't think it's worth it. And remember what happened to the town in Large 203 with a massclaim

[Mulch]

Your that confident?

[Mulch]

I've been trying as of late to not vote as much in games, mostly because it's actually developed as a scumtell that I don't change votes when I am scum and I want to eliminate that weakness in my game, and also because it makes townies for some reason scumread me for switching votes? even though it should be the opposites lmao and not just for me either

Some juicy self-meta here... mmm, delicious

Disgusting. You've pointed out two posts of mine out of 30 that I've made, and the two posts are the ones that can be construyed as typically scummy that actually aren't scummy, like self meta and pointing out that IO was obvious town. Comment on the rest of my posts, or make some advanacement of the game. This is the second time you've done it and it's starting to fucking annoy me

[Mulch]

How about Scorpios.
We can do a day where I pick the lynch, then you get to pick the lynch the next day?

You fake claim and have the gall to start lining up lynches?

VOTE: Vedith

Respond to this shit vote

[Mulch]

Self meta is towny, not scummy.

Scum have a HARD time explaining to people through their perceived meta why they are not scum. That's just a fact.

[Mulch]

Scorpious, give me your read on me right now.

[Mulch]

VOTE: Scorpious

Sorry WM but I want this wagon right now

[Mulch]

Scorpious, give me your read on me right now.

Leaning scum. Your posts seem calculated and well thought upon. Not in content,but in how they will be perceived.

Which ones?

[Mulch]

Admittedly that's a good reason to scumread someone but I want to see where your getting that from me

[Mulch]

I can already tell this game is going to be too slow

[Mulch]

Disgusting. You've pointed out two posts of mine out of 30 that I've made, and the two posts are the ones that can be construyed as typically scummy that actually aren't scummy, like self meta and pointing out that IO was obvious town. Comment on the rest of my posts, or make some advanacement of the game. This is the second time you've done it and it's starting to fucking annoy me

Damn, Homie.. chill....

Why are you so concerned about which posts I comment on? Do you think I should focus on something more mundane that you might have said?

Why did you post that nonsense about kinda following the game and wanted to replace into an "obvious" town slot? What purpose other than planting your town flag did it serve?

Lets say you were wrong. What then? How would you react to having to play scum which is something you plainly did not want according to you?

I think you should try and evaluate everything I am doing instead of the most level one push posts in the history of the world like self meta, which is perceived as scummy but isn't scummy and has also been pointed out by two other people before this... try and see if I actually am trying to solve and figure out theg ame, see if I have scum motiviation, and not go "doy, self meta", and basically say it's scummy (you implied this). That's a towny mentality. Scum mentality is looking at easy things to push without actually thinking it's scummy.

Your other questions are good. I posted about coming into an obvious town slot...with no other purpose to plant my town flag. I want to be townread. I don't want to be lynched, etc, etc. There is nothing wrong with this.

If I was scum I would be upset obviously but I would be dominating this town by now and universally townread. Not to brag but I've been nominated for my scum game etc and in all my scum games so far I've almost been totally townread (except for WHymafia LMAO). I'd also be towntelling and trying to gather townreads instead of actually solving the game like I'm doing now. I'd be fake inquisitive and my points and pushes would be less deep, but my tone would be godly and I would have fervent energy in pursuing my fake goal of pushing scum.

[Mulch]

On the other hand I like your response lmao and your reasons for scumreading me are valid.

VOTE: Alban

[Mulch]

But again, it's the dumbass post about saying IO was confirmed town that people are getting anxious at. I don't know what else I can say except it's true and I thought that saying it near my first post would make me more towny and transparent.

[Mulch]

First you all still post way too much. Lots of players on this site have day jobs and essentially have zero access for half the day. If it really needs to be said I will never post from about 7-6 PST because I have a desk job, I can at times read from work, but posting is one of those "extreme emergency only" things. I thought after we got rid of two major offenders for not realizing that during the first cycle it would help, apparently not.

More so though:

Vote Mulch

Few things basically

1) He is far more concerned about people thinking they are town than actually pushing for scum early. Especially after I call them one of my top picks for scum early in the day. Not getting lynched is the first priority of scum. Pushing for lynches is the first priority of town.
2) Massive hypocrisy throughout his posts. He says I am scum for hedging my bet (after essentially bringing my "partner" from no votes to a top wagon) but after trying to argue against players calling me town, he doesn't vote me and expresses frustration at people who are. He attacks alban for saying that the tone for Carcalilly was natural and its something that can be faked, and then start basing reads (town and scum) on others based of their tone.

________________________________________[/b]_______________________________________________________________________________

Most of it lies with Io though. If he really thought he was replacing into a town slot that must have been a great reaction when he got that PM.

how are you this confident that I am scum? How percentage out of 100%? This is insane to say this, even I think that Alban has a chance to be town with being my top scumread

First look at the Carcalilly and Io interactions. There is basically none but we get some gems such as Carcalilly calling Io town and then being unable to really provide a reason for it. This one is big though when you relate it to later posts

That self meta tho

You know, while I don't really like it when people self meta what's the point of this?
I don't really see it as a scum tell which is what I think you are implying because I know there are people out their who genuinely believe that giving self meta can clear them as town.

Remember self-meta, Carcalilly was big on that one.

This is normal interaction, I don't see anything here

When I'm scum I usually just focus on when someone mentions me or my scumpartner, and not care about the rest of the game. ^

self

Quick question - is Self-meta a scumtell to you?

I can see scum using it more than town.

That was something that happened earlier. So of course Io is going to say something about it, especially as they were fence sitting for a long time before deciding that the only way Carcalilly was scum was if Vedith was scum right? Yeah that point went completely ignored.

Io also essentially did the same thing to Carcalilly in reverse, just said "yeah they are town" early on, and then when the case started being pushed on them, just latched onto interactions between Carcalilly and Vedith as a reason to push on Vedith, but also as a reason to denounce the Carcalilly wagon outside of a scum flip from Vedith (obviously something they would know isn't happening).

There are also quite a few things that are very out of place when trying to defend Carcalilly from the mounting pressure such as:

voting MM4 can easily be chalked up to being flustered which I don't see as a tell for either town or scum. It's just really not a solid case to say that she is scum for not voting MM4 when making a push on him.

Very odd to not bring up Io was also voting MM here. Its also not really calling Carcalilly town, or anything they did as a towntell, just trying to debunk a reason.

Even more interesting is how Io jumped on Vedith. After basically the entire game of zero interaction, sans a joke comment, Vedith gets brought up late and is actually slightly defended

Either way there is no reason to vote him [Vedith] for an obvious fake claim.

In fact, during the defense of Carcalilly post, Io is the first time she at all shows a read on Vedith as scum, and that is just a sheep of some of my logic. Most of the talk regarding him is "Unless they are scum Carcalilly is town" talk. Even more when the one point they are heavily sheeping me on is "they only add clutter and don't contribute" it seems odd that it took both him and Carcalilly being under immense pressure before Io acted on it. If you want to defend a scum partner though by sacrificing town, its a good time to jump into the fray.

I completely understand frustration with having to deal with a player like him. That should be obvious from my posts alone, but after ignoring Vedith and implying he is at very worst a null read and pressure on him is bad for a majority of the game, only to suddenly turn it around when him and a scum player starts nearing a lynch reads like scum who woke up and realized their partner would be dead if they didn't do something soon, and saw the better option trying to jump on a somewhat similar wagon "low content player who reads scummy" for a mislynch hoping that we equate the same thing with town the next day.

Mulch has all out of whack priorities for town and is being hypocritical to boot. Carcalilly ignored Io basically the entire game. Io put Carcalilly as a town read early and then when pressure mounted suddenly jumped on Vedith using him to shield attacks on Carcalilly.

I like this vote.

Also self-meta is absolutely a scum tell. It is overwhelmingly easy to fake meta, even most weak players can do it and could easily pull some out in their favor for any sort of situation. If you are explaining theory as to why you do something, that's a different story. Saying "yeah I always do X", especially if that is something people tend to read as scum, is definitely a scum tell.[/quote]

Wrong. I've been trying to find scum the entire game, and I also want to be considered town. You are wrong that only scum care about being townread,
town and scum care about being townread. 99% of my posts are trying to find scum; you don't need to focus on that singular post in the beginning. I have doubts your reading everything I'm saying because I post a lot and you dislike that style of play. The SCUM reaction to being called scum early is to ignore it and try to buddy the fuck up to you or call you out or shit. The TOWN reaction is to take offense and try to change it because they CARE. Scum try to seem like they don't care, town actually care. You NEED to realize this because you fucking made an entire wall post when I called you scum to defend as well, and once you have locked onto me as scum you haven't changed anything at all and havent commented on everything except to defend yourself from my attacks, which proves you care again. Man up and realize that your stereotypical scum tells are wrong.

___________________________________________________________________

I'm not saying you are scum; I'm saying your scummy. With one scum left in the game there are high odds that you aren't scum. You are being more fucking defensive about this than I have the entire game (to the first point). I

do not

think your the most likely scum, I think Alban/Awesome are much scummier than you. You are an idiot if you think I'm going to vote everyone who I scumread when there is ONE scum left and I am prioritizing who I think is scum more. In terms of the tone, I have

Not made one post based on tone except mario. Do NOT misrepresent me and try to attack me on that, because it's wrong, and this is the second time you've done this. READ what I write.

Tone is a fine reason to scumread someone but is also easily faked from scum. It's worth going into._

____________________________________________________________

In terms of the IO/Carca interactions, there are some valid points here. When I skimmed over it I saw some obvious pocketing instances from Carca onto IO, which I think you should look over. The one specific instances you brought up with self meta isn't actually something scummy imo. The vote hedging and choosing Vedith obviously looks scummy in hindsight but to be fair you did it too, and a lot of people did it, and all I can say is IO must have truly thought Vedith was more scummy than Carca.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Mulch has all out of whack priorities for town and is being hypocritical to boot. Carcalilly ignored Io basically the entire game. Io put Carcalilly as a town read early and then when pressure mounted suddenly jumped on Vedith using him to shield attacks on Carcalilly.

I like this vote.

Also self-meta is absolutely a scum tell. It is overwhelmingly easy to fake meta, even most weak players can do it and could easily pull some out in their favor for any sort of situation. If you are explaining theory as to why you do something, that's a different story. Saying "yeah I always do X", especially if that is something people tend to read as scum, is definitely a scum tell."

I don't have out of whack priorities, you have out of whack scumread techniques and I have NATURAL prioritizies, like I want to look like I am town. Every town wants that. YOU want that because you defend yourself. And self meta is not a scumtell. It just isn't.

[Mulch]

Steel, I can see the points Llama is making coming from town as well as experienced scum. It's natural to be skeptical of some of the IO stuff, and I think there's a decent chance Llama is just being idiotic. I don't understand the Alban stuff, he hasn't been trying to sort at all and his posts today are extremely scummy, AND he's voting Whymafia for a crappy reason (and who is obvious town).

[Mulch]

I believe llama is deciding to scumread slots and then as an experienced player very easily casing them to serve that purpose, or in carcalilly's case distancing.

Why distance and put in efforts for it if I was scum and then not follow through? It seems pointless to bring a scum partner from no votes to exceedingly lynchable and then voting town over the wagon, because that results in people saying I am scum the next day.

Yeah I probably *could* come up with most players being scum if I really wanted to (which is why the alban push confuses me since I think that is almost the hardest case to force a scum read on), but I don't know how you want me to respond to something like that.

I think there is more back and forth in organic reads, more of a struggle. Here on mulch/io, but on vedith especially yesterday I got that impression as well.

Building reads is what cases are. I say player X is scum and give reasoning. They respond and I either adjust my read or continue to push if it doesn't change my mind. When you have people like Vedith who essentially refuse to respond, it doesn't change anything. I do not remotely take kindly to people who take joking around to the point where they are not playing the game.

Also please use the "preview" button people....

FYI that is not how real scumreads shoudl form, which is probably why you are failing in it so far. You should look at people and see scumyness and then scumread them, not scumread them and make cases afterwards...

[Mulch]

Next time break up the wall post, you had crap formatting with the quotes too and it was hard to follow yet I had to

[Mulch]

VOTE: Awesome

[Mulch]

Town can be wrong and tunnel and be confirmation bias too, keep this in mind when scumread Llama. Those aren't good reasons to scumread them.

This is a blatant TvS misrepresentation between me and Llama, and it shows you aren't trying to sort with a shitton of more people in the game as well.

You had the hedging like Llama did but 1000X worse.

[Mulch]

I mean obviously it's super hard to townread Llama and to not OMGUS them immediately when they make an hour long post on me, have been locked on me scum since day 1, haven't read my posts, and have confirmation bias up the wazoo, but unfortuantely some players are like that.

Yes, I think Llama is most likely misguided town.

[Mulch]

This is all assuming one scum obviously but I think it's in you and Alban with offchances of Llama and Scorpy

[Mulch]

Spoiler:

That self meta tho

You know, while I don't really like it when people self meta what's the point of this?
I don't really see it as a scum tell which is what I think you are implying because I know there are people out their who genuinely believe that giving self meta can clear them as town.

That self meta tho

You know, while I don't really like it when people self meta what's the point of this?
I don't really see it as a scum tell which is what I think you are implying because I know there are people out their who genuinely believe that giving self meta can clear them as town.

I'd vote him if I thought it was a that dire of a scumtell
I'm just stating the obvious

Fair enough.

I panicked slightly seeing the 3 pages thinking I missed something big, but no it was just a rather pointless back and forth.

Also

Desperado: Carcalilly

You can't get me if I get you first!

Doesn't that just force a 1v1 we can only lynch one of you?

I'm liking Steel as town with the recent posts of him though, wasn't quite sure at first but I feel he is putting in effort to look into people.
Same goes for Carca. They've been consistent with the MM4 push and are making a case against them. Which is more than I can say for MM4 who I feel is just lacking especially after I reviewed Carca's reasoning for leaning scum on him.
VOTE: MM4

Also because I noticed Steel brought it up again and Carca had mentioned it back in post 156 this is an 11 player game and not 13. 13 I've seen with 3 to 4 scum but as far as I can tell from looking over the archived normal games I have not seen an 11 player game with 3 scum like Steel pointed out it's always 2 scum.

res

VOTE: Io

Take that!
I've now invalidated whatever this vote count is going to be.

VOTE: io

Self voting is bad

I'll vote whoever I want to vote.
Maybe I didn't want to live.

For reference above here are all the control F Carca in IO ISO. There's nothing exciting here but nothing really super obvious that I feel like would incriminate me hugely.


On the other hand here is something that I actually think spews IO town, here:

Spoiler:

res

VOTE: Io

Take that!
I've now invalidated whatever this vote count is going to be.

VOTE: io

Self voting is bad

UNVOTE:

I remember playing with Io. She will give long winding explanations about game mechanics and why and who is scum. I believe (but not sure) that she is logical, terse and concise when town.

Well thank you for calling me logical, but I don't really know if I would fall myself concise, I will make large posts if I need to get a point across.
Also I think the game mechanic talk was unique to that game if I recall because people weren't quite understanding them.

Frankly, I'm not really sure what the point in going over how people typically play helps. Like for example, I try to keep consistent play across whatever alignment I am and I'm pretty sure most people do that as to avoid scum slipping every time they are scum due to their meta.
Plus, the rules forbid Trust Tells and going over people's meta as town vs scum seems to be encroaching on breaking that rule.
Reguardless I've only played a full game with Alban, and maybe LUV and I am Innocent but I don't remember those games. Alban I remember does this kind of thing in all games if not most that I've played with him where he wants to talk about people's behavior.

Town

UNVOTE:

I remember playing with Io. She will give long winding explanations about game mechanics and why and who is scum. I believe (but not sure) that she is logical, terse and concise when town.

Well thank you for calling me logical, but I don't really know if I would fall myself concise, I will make large posts if I need to get a point across.
Also I think the game mechanic talk was unique to that game if I recall because people weren't quite understanding them.

Frankly, I'm not really sure what the point in going over how people typically play helps. Like for example, I try to keep consistent play across whatever alignment I am and I'm pretty sure most people do that as to avoid scum slipping every time they are scum due to their meta.
Plus, the rules forbid Trust Tells and going over people's meta as town vs scum seems to be encroaching on breaking that rule.
Reguardless I've only played a full game with Alban, and maybe LUV and I am Innocent but I don't remember those games. Alban I remember does this kind of thing in all games if not most that I've played with him where he wants to talk about people's behavior.

Town

Reasons?

To me they seem honest and open.

Here are two things. 1: An obvious pocketing attempt from Carca to IO. partners arent dumb enough to call each other town openly with a shit reason, this is carca trying to get IO on their side. 2: A shit push from Carca onto IO for self voting which is not a scumtell and is exactly the type of level one shit that scum like to do without actually solving to try and get a scumread.

[Mulch]

FYI that is not how real scumreads shoudl form, which is probably why you are failing in it so far. You should look at people and see scumyness and then scumread them, not scumread them and make cases afterwards...

1) You read posts
2) You think "Player X looks like scum"
3) You say so and vote the player with the reasons
4) They respond (or in some cases don't)
5) You reevaluate

Need to get stuff done but after what I can try to figure out from all the broken quote tags, I like my vote even more.

I mean obviously it's super hard to townread Llama and to not OMGUS them immediately when they make an hour long post on me, have been locked on me scum since day 1, haven't read my posts, and have confirmation bias up the wazoo, but unfortuantely some players are like that.

I don't even...

I explicitly called Io town for just about all of day one. I called Vedith, AUN and Caralilly scum. Today I said AUN is still a good scum pick, but due to flips you are better (lynching both probably ends the game). How is anything you are saying here true?

Listen dumbass. Theres a 6/7 chance right now your town. You are tunneling me for no reason without any reconsideration because of idiotic spew and when I try and explain my reasoning and my motiviation and try to maybe explain some of the spew you refuse to listen and you "like your vote even more." This is ridiculous. The tunnel visiona nd confirmation bias is NOT reevaluating when you are wrong. You are WRONG here. I am TOWN. Wrap your fucking head around this fact beacuse you are going to figure this out sooner or later. You are so voncinced I am scum that you think everything I say is untrue when it is also true and you are so convinced I am scum you are reading everything I sayin a shitty light and are convinced you have found the holy grail of scum off of idiotic stuff like self meta.

RE EVELUATE YOURSELF. ACTUALLY READ MY POSTS

You are having tunnel vision and it's a PROBLEM with you that your going to have to fix in the future, and what is worse is that if you succesfully pull of a lynch on me it's going to look so much worse and like a shitty scum tunnel that even if your town were probably going to lose the game anyway.

On a separate note, probably the reason your wrong is because you look at someone, say OOH THEY ARE SCUM and then start FABRICATING reads to support this (cases). That is NOT what people do. That's what scum do and this probably supports your scumgame cause your meta supports it when
you are town. You look at posts, say hey these are scummy and THEN scumread, not the other way around.

What is more, BECAUSE I HAVE A DIFFERENT APPROACH TO SCUMREADING THAN YOu is NOT a fucking valid reason to scumread anyone in the first place.

MAN UP AND ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG

[Mulch]

I've seen this before. I've been here. I play like this as town. You think someone is scum and just cant be convinced they are wrong, to the extent that you are SCUMREADING me for having a different mentality than you and for POINTING OUT YOU HVAE CONFIRMATION BIAS which even if I WAS scum you would fucking have LMAO. You are saying I'm scum and figuring out reasons why. It's WRONG.

[Mulch]

I was going to post but now I have to catch up again. :/

I am simultaneously pretty convinced by Llama's case, and agree with Steel that there's not enough back and forth in his reads. At this point I'm like 85% that one of Mulch and Llama is scum.

I don't understand how you got to this point when you said the flip had cleared llama just earlier and from Io being one of your strongest townreads day 1.

Vote him dude

[Mulch]

Do you know how much self control it's taking not to snapvote you right now Llama for your idiocy, especially considering my personality? A LOT. But I'm mature and man enough to realize that town can make mistakes, and will not be locked into a thing and I can RE EVEALUATE (which btw is a towny thing to do).

[Mulch]

@Mulch: I mean that's not the only reason I'm suspicious of Llama. I just brought it up because Steel mentioned it and I agreed.

In 973, am I the person that you're saying is misrepping?

@Steel: Mulch convinced me otherwise with the Llama clear. And my read on Io was one those reads that I looked back on and realized was probably stronger than it should have been. Also, as I said, Llama's case is kinda convincing? It probably helps that I had been thinking about the possibility of Mulch-scum when he posted it. But yeah, you're right, that number's probably too high.

Yes it is. Why the fuck are you assuming that Llama and I are TvS when we are most likely town v town when all is said and done?

Can you go through what exactly is convincing? The only fucking thing that I have seen Llama say that is convincing is the thing that they hadn't even brought UP then which is when IO said that Carcaand Vedith were towntown or scumscum which is actually incriminating. I want to see your thought process here.

[Mulch]

I mean you know it's confirmation bias when they are scumreading you for having a different mentality in scumreading than them. That's just insane.

[Mulch]

Whymafia my two hesitations with Llama town are the aforementioned vote heding and also the fact that they are scarily reminiscent to me when I am scum lmao with the tunneling. Do you see it? And I am even townreading my attacker like everyone did to me in the game lol

[Mulch]

Whymaf it's not the contradictions it's his motiviation, specifically edging Llama and us into a lock battle of "one of us is scum" which I'm SURE the fucking llama is grazing up like a food they need

[Mulch]

Right now here are my town rankings

[Mulch]

1. Mulch
2. Steel
3. Whymafia
4. Mario
5. Llama
6. Scorpious
7. Alban
8. Awesome

[Mulch]

Llama. What do you not understand. About tone being a valid way to read people but also something really easy for scum to fake? I don't understand why this can't go through your brain.

I am not calling someone scum for tone, I might call someone scum for tone reads only, but I would never call someone scum for just making tone reads. Nor should you.

Again: I have never scumread someone for making a tone read. It all involves more.

Mario I have townread just like you? Where is the contention here?

What do you think about the obvious pocketing? How do you not see that?

Can you point me to the stuff at the end

[Mulch]

I'm having trouble following that, but yeah, I think it's TvT at this point and that you were doming us (And feeding the llama).

I am self aware. If you want to consider that a scumtell, go ahead, but it's literally just that I am aware of how I look, and so are you all even if you all pretend you are perfect little townies that don't care if you are lynched, yes you are. The WhyMafia self awareness is scummy because it 1) Dosent fit his meta and 2) Is slimy and subtle

When I am scum I am always townread by everyone, I don't have to answer to idiocy like this because I Know how to get towncred. I am definitely not focused on that this game, and trust me I know how to make it look natural. Just believe me that I would be dominating if I was scum, and look at Large Normal 203 or Penguin's Mafia Redux if you don't believe me.

[Mulch]

I do think it's interesting about if there is 3 scum then the entire game changes, and obviously Llama from my PoV gets a hell of a lot scummier.


Maybe it could be best to do a massclaim? By learning the state of the Pr's it makes it vulnerbale but we could also figure out if we have enough firepower to defeat 3 scum or if it's most likely 2

[Mulch]

WHat is wrong that you can't understand that it's valid and also easy for scum to fake??????????

What is the logic gap here? What don't you understand? I am in shock here, what is not understand that goes through your brain that thinks these are mutually exclusive???

Pocketing and buddying are the same thing in a sense but pocketing is when a scum player tries to get a town player to townread them. Like when Carca did the naked townread on IO.

___________________________________________-


On to an actual topic:

I don't remember why I townread Mario but I remember thinking they were obvious town through my read of day 1. I'd probably have to reread to find hard reasons/specific posts I liked, but their tone was incredible and everything seemed natural. However, I didn't like their excuse/doubt 3 post day today which I sort of pointed out.

Steel was the main person on Carca all game? Unless they hard bussed day 1 with possible 2 scum, I heavily doubt he's scum.

Whymafia is obvious town through meta, he is a fucking horrible scum player and he is naturally scummy as town.

[Mulch]

Like Steel is the type of player you never lynch here. Hardubssing your partner day 1 gives you a day's worth of lynch immunity in my humble opinion.

[Mulch]

Although if there are 3 scum it makes a bit more sense but it still dosen't lol

[Mulch]

Ehh

VOTE: Alban

This is a good wagon for today

[Mulch]

Llama. Repeat after me. I. Do. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

Mulch. Does. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

Mulch. Does. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

Mulch. Does. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

Mulch. Does. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

Mulch. Does. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

Mulch. Does. Not. Think. That. People. Using. Tone. To. Do. Reads. Is. A. Scumtell

[Mulch]

@alban: Why are you sure he's town? And what are your thoughts on Carca?

There was a substantial overlap between his reads and mine.
His tone appeared the most natural.
His claim was obviously a joke.
Plus, a scum would confuse people, not clear them up, even as a joke. Even if they give tr on a few people, clearing 3 people at once, especially in the early D1 stage is less likely to be scum.
But no, I can't be sure. For the town's sake, let's hope I am wrong.

This stuff in particular is really bad. "His tone appeared most natural" is something that is valid but also something that is REALLY easy for scum to fake. Same with reads overlapping, it's a crappy, scummy reason to townread someone, same as all the other points.

In THIS post I even SAID that tone reading is something that is valid but it's also easy to fake.

This post is bad because it has no analysis and no solving and is just level one stuff, all that is easy for scum to fake. Which INCLUDES tone. Which is valid.

What dont you get

[Mulch]

In terms of steel anyone voting Carca at Eod means they were bussing them, but I guess that I might want to consider if he did look for excuses to get off the Carca wagon like you are suggesting. Might want to look into it. But like honestly are you really looking for bussing in this instance?

[Mulch]

I can tell by the tone of your posts that you think I'm town now. you know what to do. If you insist on tunneling me, it's your own fault

[Mulch]

inb4 calls out for tone.

FYI, the reason I know you think I am town now and are only voting me out of stubbornness (even if your lying to yourself):

Spoiler:

You've gathered much more softness and doubt in your tone towards me, which means you are reconsidering. Don't lie to yourself. Do the right thing.

[Mulch]

Mulch, have you explained why you think Llama is town? I can't find it.

First; I'm not SURE they are town, just I think that most likely they are town.
Really, the scummy part about Llama is that they are deciding I'm scum and then finding examples to support it, but they've made it clear that's their policy. Their frustration is genuine. I also think the stuff they think are scummy from me can easily come from a misguided town's PoV- The self meta (a lot idiocitically think it's scummy), the "hypocricy" which I think is a misunderstand, the supposed town grabbyness from me with my first post (which is sort of true but again not scummy), and the spew from Io/Carca interactions, which can easily be misinterpreted as w/w as first without realizing that Carca was obviously pocketing IO.

In short, they are wrong, but it's stuff that is coming from a good PoV and is something that I could easily see coming from town.

What's more, a recent developement, the softening and the doubt is something super natural for town while I think scum would continue to tunnel me with their tone as well as the vote.

[Mulch]

This post is bad because it has no analysis and no solving and is just level one stuff, all that is easy for scum to fake. Which INCLUDES tone. Which is valid.

We don't disagree that tone is easy to fake. What we disagree with is that tone is actually anything you can use in a read. You have called people out as having fake tone and good tone, while stating that it is something that is very easy to fake. Saying something that is very easy to fake has anything to do with a read makes no sense. Its just kneecapping your own tell and it feels like filler instead of something you actually believe.

Also why are you voting alban over AUN? I still am confused about alban-scum reads and still have him in that middle pack.

Ok, maybe I have to say it in a different way to reach your brain. Tone is very easy to fake.

Process

. However, it's a valid way to scumread someone if you make it part of a bigger picture, because tone is something real.

Process

.

Why do these things not go together in your brain? How is my reads invalidated if I use tone reads if I think it's fakeable? And how in the fucking world does that equate to scum equity at all?

___________________________________

I'm voting Alban over AUN cause Alban's responses this day have benen much worse (i see they've posted more but I need to read them), specifically in the sense that they seem to be keep focusing on how they were inactive and it's their meta etc etc which isnt neccecarily bad but have still offered no good reasons to why their solving process does not seem natural/seem too easy to fake/ lacks genuine thinking, and have chalked it all up to meta which is horrible.

AUN had a much scummier day 1 but I sort of dig their answers to me so far in this day, I at least can understand their process and it seems genuine. I especially liked the part about how they were going to highlight some parts of the llama read they liked and didn't like because it shows they were actually solving instead of just agreeing/not agreeing, taking sides, having an agenda. The shit about me and you being TvS though is still horrible and almost inexusable, though, which is why they are still my second highest scumread as of now.

[Mulch]

Interaction between WHyMafia and Mulch on page 37 reads fake.
There's super mild questioning, and subtle towncreds handed over to each other from a past game. WhyMafia handled the questions terribly imo. Everything was either a feeling or a belief or tone. There was nothing substantial to their tr-ing or sr-ing someone.

I'm not subtly townreading him at all; I'm heavily, out in the open, saying right now he is fucking town to me. And for one reason: meta. I know whymafia's meta. I know how he plays. This is classic whymafia town meta AND he sucks at scum and I can easily see through it.

Can you go into more detail about lack of substance?

[Mulch]

Self meta is towny, not scummy.

Scum have a HARD time explaining to people through their perceived meta why they are not scum. That's just a fact.

Then why am I sread for my D1 self-meta?

I'm not scumreading you for that at all.

[Mulch]

VOTE: Awesome

So, my vote on WhyMafia is crappy, but your vote on me, then on Llama, then on me again, and now on Awesome, is fantastic? You are voting everyone who disagrees with you or votes you.

I haven't voted llama at all.

I'm voting people I scumread. Not who I disagree with. And of coure I will obviously disagree, at least sometimes, with the people I scumread...

[Mulch]

Nah don't worry, I'm convinced llama is town
@llama don't worry either, your case has been noted. At the current standing in the game, I think I would rather keep mulch alive. Obviously will re-evaluate every day phase. For now, I'm still shakily believing mulch to be town, as well as you.

On looking at Awesome's posts, they're scummy af. However, my gut is screaming town :-:
Like contradictions don't equate to scum (although they mostly do) and the way his thoughts are scrambled, I see a resemblance to my early days in mafia

Posts like these is why you are scummy.
You have no thoughts to offer.

Agreed tbh

[Mulch]

You know what, just stay away. You wanna vote for me, vote for me. Just don't fucking interact.

This is interesting and I think towny of a sort, because it's so out in the open scummy and it reads as true anger

[Mulch]

Alban, how do you view Llama currently?

Who would you rather lynch between them and awesome?

Scorpious I would love a reads list and also still am waiting for the answer to which questions of mine you felt I was overly preocupied to how I looked

[Mulch]

Mulch,

Can you see my issue here?

I re-read your self meta,and I must say. Your play is entirely different from scum you. Do you see my dilemma here in trying to formulate a solid read on you?

I wonder why

:thonk:

I don't see your dillema, unfortunately, because you still haven't shown me any of my posts you thought I was overly preocupied with looking good which is the basis of your scumread.

I would implore you to look at all of my posts and see if they make sense/you agree/they seem genuine/natural/actually trying to solve, because to be actually honest I've put more effort into this game than I have a lot of town games and I think the evidence speaks for itself.

[Mulch]

Like to go into WhyMafia's meta, check his games as town. He can provide them. They are a near carbon copy

[Mulch]

Your town games with me

[Mulch]

You are tunneling alban which mght not neccecarily be a bad thing if he's scum lol but yeah, you should look at other options. Thoughts on Awesome

[Mulch]

IDC what you call it I want some semblance of you telling me who you townread and who you scumread. And I need you to point out, for a fourth time, the posts of mine you have a problem with so I can explain them

[Mulch]

I don't have time today but can someone go back and find any posts from players still alive that explicitly talked about three scum? It should be exceedingly obvious from the vig flip three scum cant be the case (just in case if it wasn't from 11P) and want to compare experience levels for people making a bad assumption.

Why

[Mulch]

That statement is scummy and LAMIST. It's bad to talk about how you are going to gamesolve in the future

[Mulch]

And it's also highlighting the fact that you WOULD be gamesolving like a good little towny but poor you have little time

[Mulch]

Who do you scumread Scorpious?

[Mulch]

Right now its a toss up between you,Alban and mm4

How Mario, and you need to give me the posts you don't like about me. And why don't you scumread Awesome, and why do you townread Llama?

[Mulch]

Interesting you asked for no elaboration on my Alban read, no?

Is it because you like that wagon?

Yes?

[Mulch]

It's extremely obvious why Alban could be considered scum, I want clarification on the others. please please please please please answer my many questions

[Mulch]

3) One more thing that I don't want to talk about before we massclaim because it could give scum pointers.

This is super Lamist and scummy, AGAIN.

Llama why do you still have your vote on me? Have you read my posts? Do you disagree with them? Why are you insisting on keeping your vote with me when I've answered all of your qualms to the point that you literally have no response to them? Why are you insisting on being so stubborn on the off chance of being a hero when even BEFORE I totally explained everything you had problems with you STILL were considering between me and someone else (i forget who). What the fuck? Stop tunneling and reconsider and admit your wrong

[Mulch]

imo zero post Scorpious has made a more legitimate point against me than all of Llama's post's combined (except maybe the ONE post about Io to carca towntown), and Llama has written 5 wallposts.

[Mulch]

The longer you keep my vote on me the more likely your just good scum instead of idiotic town, and the better I feel about the gamestate. If you are town (which you MOST LIKELY ARE): STOP.

It's taken all my fucking willpower to not vote you even though all of your points have been defeated by mine because I'm willing to give you a CHANCE to reconsider and your just blindly following your hero gut and ignoring my posts that clearly EXPLAIN EVERYTHING YOU HAVE ASKED

[Mulch]

Scorpious PLEASE respond to me

[Mulch]

​​

Welcome to Mini 1929!

Moderator: Ircher

Backup:

Human Sequencer

Gamma Emerald

Reviewed by: Fferyllt, RadiantCowbells, and Firebringer

Spoiler: Player List

1. Awesomeusername+
2. Vedith​​+​
3.

Lil Uzi Vert​+​

WhyMafia+
4. Steel+
5.

Io​+​

Mulch+
6. Scorpious​+​
7. alban+​​
8. Tchill13​+​
9. Carcalilly​+​
10. MarioManiac4+
11.

I Am Innocent​+​*

Llamafluff+

Key: + = Confirmed, * = Prod, ^ = Prod Dodge,

Replaced

Spoiler: Alive Players (8)

1. Awesomeusername
3. WhyMafia

Lil Uzi Vert

4. Steel
5. Mulch

Io

6. Scorpious
7. Alban
10. MarioManiac4
11. LlamaFluff

I am Innocent

Spoiler: Dead Players (3)

2. Vedith,

Vanilla Townie

, was lynched day 1.
8. Tchill13,

Town 2-shot Vigilante

, was killed Night 1.
9. Carcalilly,

Mafia Goon

, was killed Night 1.

Spoiler: VC History

Dawn (Pregame)

Dawn VC #0, Dawn VC #1, Dawn VC #2, Dawn VC #3

Day 1

Day 1 VC #1, Day 1 VC #2, Day 1 VC #3, Day 1 VC #4, Day 1 VC #5, Day 1 VC #6, Day 1 VC #7, Day 1 VC #8, Day 1 VC #9, Day 1 VC #10, Day 1 VC #11, Day 1 VC #12, Day 1 VC #13, Day 1 VC #14, Day 1 VC #15, Day 1 VC #16, Day 1 VC #17 (HAMMER)

Spoiler: Event History

65: Day 1 begins!
113: Gamma Emerald replaces Human Sequencer as backup moderator.
395: WhyMafia replaces Lil Uzi Vert.
413: Warning not to discuss ongoing games.
520: LlamaFluff replaces I am Innocent.
808: Night 1 begins! Mulch replaces Io.

Llama explain your Alban townread, Scorpious explain your awesome townread

[Mulch]

Ok when you do respond to the about 20 things I've asked you in the past 3 days

[Mulch]

VOTE: Llama

Fuck it idc anymore, again another misrepresentaiton that most of my posts have been telling you to stop tunneling which have been 3/107 posts, and that my priority is not being lynched which is DUMB as fuck because it's fucking natural that I am defensive when you call me scum for bullshit reasons and tunnel me despite me being obvious town

[Mulch]

Let's engage in a deathtunnel. You will lose. You can't beat me in this when my townyness is going to shine through.

[Mulch]

I've reached the end of my limit trying to consider that you could be idiotic town. At this point your ignoring what I am going to say and just tunneling anyway, which is SCUM. Check out Large 203, I did it to great effect and then when Vedith was lynched he went down saying "scum woulden't be that idiotic to tunnel me"

[Mulch]

3) One more thing that I don't want to talk about before we massclaim because it could give scum pointers.

This is super Lamist and scummy, AGAIN.

Oh yes. Because telling scum what types of roles are almost out of the question to be in the game is a smart thing to do before massclaim.

This is one of the scummiest things I've seen you do, you COMPLETELY ignored my point let alone ignored the last tiem I called you out for being LAMIST. This is fucking BAD. I nevver said that it was smart or dumb. I called it LAMIST as in LOOK AT MY ASS I'm SO FUCKING TOWN.

"Let's not do this to give scum pointers" effect is saying look at me I'm not scuma nd I'm gonna make a strategic decision to show them that I am not scum! The towny thing to say is saying look let's not say blah blah cause it's bad, not trying to emphasize how YOU are on a separate team from the SCUM when it could give THEM pointers

[Mulch]

That statement is scummy and LAMIST. It's bad to talk about how you are going to gamesolve in the future

And it's also highlighting the fact that you WOULD be gamesolving like a good little towny but poor you have little time

You completely fucking ignored this

[Mulch]

Let's go through Llama's "progression" on my tone reads. Llama's main point scumreading ME (the rest is ALL Io/Carca spew in her case), is that I like to say that tone reads are fakeable yet I used them.

I've explained about FIVE times that both can exist at the same time. You STILL refuse to acknowledge that you are wrong about this. WHY IS IT A SCUMTELL TO SAY THAT TONE READS ARE FAKEABLE BUT ALSO USE THEM???

It's NOT A SCUMTELL. It's NOT. You just keep REITERATING and SAYING AND SAYING AND SAYING this same thing over and over like it's some great revelation when I have even EXPLAINED IN DEATIAL when I said Alban's tone was fakeable that this was in cojunction with a SHITTY reads list and yet you fucking keep saying it's "discrediting" my reads and even if they DID there is ZERO Explicit scum motivation in this

[Mulch]

You have fucking again and again misrepresented what I am saying and slimy moved on to another topic, I've noticed it about FIVE times and look in my ISO because I don't have the willpower right now to make a massive fucking wall post about this

[Mulch]

This latest LAMIST thing wher You try to answer a different poiint. Did I say it was a bad idea? Did I say it was a good idea?

I FUCKING said that it was LAMIST, and you respond, oh, so it was a bad idea?

NO. THATS NOT WHAT I AM SAYING. YOu KNOW this. You are intelligent fucking enough

[Mulch]

VOTE: Llama

See how you enjoy a fucking deatutnnel, except mine actually has valid points, dumbass

[Mulch]

You've in all likeihood lost us the game and are basically in effect FORCING me to vote you, and if we are bogth town we both go in the mislymches one after another and we fucking lose if there are 3 scum and go into LyLo if there are 2.

Because you bet your ASS that I'm forcing the town to lynch your ass if I'm lynched here. You bet your ass.

[Mulch]

There is ZERO CHANCE that you are going to spin that "ooh, I was so wrong about poor Mulchy, he was so scummy". I am instructing town to POWERLYNCH your ass

[Mulch]

Because I'm NOT fucking scummy and your REFUSING to reevelute in the face of damning evidence to my side and an absolute flawless mentality that I am town

[Mulch]

Why the fuck are you spending time on theory instead of responding to the about 50 posts of mine that actually have points you can't refute and you are ignoring because you "lack time"

[Mulch]

The ONLY valid point in your mess of points about me is Io's ONE post that says Carca Vedith is TownTown or ScumScum, which is not even scummy in practce.

You REFUSE to look at the blatant pocket attempt of Carca to IO, you REFUSE to look at this. HOW. HOW CAN YOU REFUSE TO SEE THE POCKET.

HOW. YOU FLAT OUT HAVE NOT RESPONDED TO IT. I've BROUGHT IT UP around FIFTY FUCKING TIMES and you REFUSE TO LOOK AT IT.

[Mulch]

Your tone had gone to much more fucking doubting as I pointed out and yet your still latching onto your WRONG scumread of me? Why the fuck were you doubting? Why are you afraid to show the doubt that your tone indicates?

[Mulch]

Let's go into this post.

"Yeah... sarcasm aside I never did call him town. He is aggressively null for me and pretty much in the same camp as Scorp where if both you are AUN are town, then it probably turns into one of those two."

Is this your fucking code for saying if I am lynched and flip town (just like you fucking pushed Vedith and flipped town, your day 1 heding and voting Vedith over a scurmead is still atrocious), then Ao flips town, in your fucking Lylo THEN you have a path to victory?

[Mulch]

And let's talk about that day 1 stuff which you have NOT responded ADEQUATELY to. You fucking lynched a POLICY lynch of Vedith over a SCUMREAD of carca and did LAMIST heding where you are like "hey guys, give me your supporting arguements on each other" and then failed to fucking put your vote where it mattered.

And your response is to strawman and RAMBLE on about how you fucking like policy lynches. Does this give one fuck to the situation? Does it?

[Mulch]

You can't win in a deathtunnel against me when I'm ACTUALLY TOWN. You can't win when I am scum and you definitely aren't winning when I actually have the valid points to discredit and I don't need to bullshit with bad reasoning like I did in Vedith in 203. It's LIBERATING to be fucking RIGHT in this situation

[Mulch]

And forget about me trying to be all forgiving and try to scumread other people, no. This absolute BULLSHIT has gone on enough

[Mulch]

And the worst fucking part is that just yesterday (and even now!) I know that the points you bring up COULD come from misguided town. But the more you fucking CONTINUE to push it and REFUSE to reevuluate it's going on either you are scum or borderline gamethrowing

[Mulch]

If you end up town at end of game, I am REPORTING your ass for gamethrowing/blacklisting you from future games of mine, which is SAD because you are a list mod that is supposed to represent MS, and you will have ended up going on an inane tunnel that does nothing while going on your hero gut and not trying to actually sort.

I sincerely hope you are good scum.

[Mulch]

I replaced into this game because I wanted to have a good game and not this utter bullshit that you have forced my hand into entering

[Mulch]

This game

[Mulch]

VOTE: Alban

[Mulch]

The point of that outbreak, Llama, was 3fold.

1) To show the town that my anger is true in this scenario
2) To point out all the scummy things you've done that have been laboring in the back of my mind, so that you can respond
3 To show you how it feels to be tunneled without any consideration to how your side of things may be.

[Mulch]

And, of course, to show you that if you are scum who succesfull push a lynch on me, it's over for you. You are done.

[Mulch]

Now. Follow these 3 steps.

1)

Suck up your pride

2)

Reevaluate and actually read my posts

3)

Change your reads and lynch actual scum with me

[Mulch]

And, 4) Respond to all the scummy things you've done in a non manipulative and non strawman way

[Mulch]

In between all these anger issues, is anyone interested in my thoughts from d1? The ones I was working on during vedith's lynch. They spam 3 pages (20-22).

I don't wanna spend time typing and then be ignored

.

How do you think I feel?

[Mulch]

What tbe actual fuck, bro?

Can you do something?

[Mulch]

Jesus christ mulch though. One vote isn't the end of the world especially when it realistically might be from scum anyways. You are nowhere near being in danger of a lynch.

Ok, it's a shitty ass vote and the relentless tunnel is bothersome as FUCK.

And realisitcally there is a 6/7 chance that he is not scum, which makes it worse

[Mulch]

Do me a favor and link these kind people your town games, please, that are completed on this site

[Mulch]

mentioning that you aren't concerned is scummy.

[Mulch]

No

[Mulch]

First off, the post was to show you how tunneling felt. I still think your most likely town. You missed the point.

[Mulch]

Secondly, I'm going to point out SPECIFICALLY in your post where it is wrong.

[Mulch]

tl;dr

Mulch spends a full page of posting that he thinks the only way I could vote him is I am scum.

Wrong. I need you to go and find posts where I said this, because this is a blatant lie (what else is new). And, I hope you read at the end where I said this was basically to show you how it felt like to be tunneled.

[Mulch]

1) Mulch acknowledges I am probably town

This is not a secret

[Mulch]

1) and is willing to "lose the game"

This is another lie. Please show me where I said this.

[Mulch]

1) when the probably D4 lynch in his hypothetical is alban... who Mulch says is scum.

First off, town do not know that Alban is scum. Town SUSPECT that alban is scum. Do you think I know for 100% that Alban is scum?

Besides that, the point I was making about your scummyness had nothing to do with Alban. It was that you were already making pre flips and chaining lynches.

Respond to this.

[Mulch]

2) Apparently refusing to give scum info about what to/what not to fakeclaim is a scum tell.

This is a LIE. Tell me where I say this. A flat out LIE.

Once again, it's that you were being LAMIST that is scummy, not this. Again.

[Mulch]

3) When he is trying to be more threatening, its 3 scum. When he starts trying to get logical its 2 scum.

Let me ask you something. Do you think it's possible that I

*gasp*

Do not KNOW if there are 2 scum or 3 scum?

How the fuck are you sure if there are 2 scum or 3 scum? How are you that confident?

I'm bringing up possibilities involving both because I don't KNOW what is real.

[Mulch]

4) He actually stops caring about lynching scum halfway through his rant and its just trying to make me back down.

Correct

[Mulch]

4) He actually stops caring about lynching scum

halfway

through his rant and its just trying to make me back down. His

entire

rant is just an attempt at self-preservation, not reads.

Listen you dumbass, you even just admitted to yourself here that I was showing you how scumfucky you are for half of it and the other half was trying to make you change your read. The fact that you said my entire laugh was self preservation is idiotic.

[Mulch]

And that's exactly what it was.

1) Show my anger
2) Show you how tunneling felt/make you change your read
3) Point out the scummy things you have done and force you to respond.


Notice, idiot, that I am not even voting you right now.

[Mulch]

Break up your posts, they are so annoying to respond to

[Mulch]

Ok. I'm going to do it once and for all. I am going to spend the time quoting every single post I have made that shows I am scumhunting, you dumbass

[Mulch]

Can someone tell me why Llama and Awesome are scum? I TR'ed both of em ;-;

Llama is fine except for this one post which dropped them in my reads like a tier alone: 714

Awesome had absolute shit hedging at the end and their tone is fake as fuck

And explain 74

714

EBWOP

Can someone tell me why Llama and Awesome are scum? I TR'ed both of em ;-;

Llama is fine except for this one post which dropped them in my reads like a tier alone: 714

What's wrong with that post though?

It's one of the most classic scum partners in a 1v1 posts. It's not neccecarily scummy in the traditional sense but by experience it's super hard for a scum partner to take a side when it's TvS wagons, and even for scum to take a side, so asking each to provide a bulletproof list is like super LAMIST in the sense: look at me, I'm so town, I'm gonna take all the arguements and weigh them against each other, AND it allows the scum to make a decision later so they don't need to commit, which is extra bad now that carc flipped scum.

Do you feel me?

And not at all on Awesome. Can see Scorpius though

Per awesome: what do you think about the heding at the scummyness at EoD?

First things first: I joined this game partly because Io was obvious town, and I expect to be treated as such.

lol no... like massively no.

Not with those flips. Vedith was an excellent borderline policy lynch I would do again in an instant but with the scum flip it makes things interesting since those were the top wagons.

Need to reread a bit. Probably in AUN/Io but want to make sure.

I can see this coming from villa because usually villa first reaction to me declaring myself conftown is to push back even though it's NAI/towny for me.

The part about the policy lynch is a little scummy imo because it's already looking like you are subtly trying to give an excuse for your behavior on Vedith. nobody really brought it up, or gave you heat, so why are you already trying to rationalize it?

How about Scorpios.
We can do a day where I pick the lynch, then you get to pick the lynch the next day?

You fake claim and have the gall to start lining up lynches?

VOTE: Vedith

This post in particular from Scorpious to rationalize the vote on vedith is really bad

One of the main things I want us to do today is try and figure out the shit votes on Vedith with VedithVCarca. I'm getting the feeling that scum didn't vote Carca in this instance ,and even if they did that's a problem for lategame

I feel like the Carca flip more or less clears Llama, which is good because I didn't townread him before. Also notable: Llama's logic about Scorpious in 612 holds, so I'm inclined to think he's town as well. This leaves me leaning town on everyone. :/ My weakest tier of town reads has Scorpious, alban, and Why Mafia, so I guess I'll start here.

@WM: I would also like to know why you town-read me, especially after these flips.

@Mulch: What do you think of Scorpious's reaction to Vedith's claim?

I agree that we should be looking at the wagons yesterday. IMO the worst ones on Vedith were WhyMafia's and Scorpious's, just in terms of lame reasoning/sheeping, and none of the votes on Carca ping me except for maybe Why Mafia again. But that doesn't particularly feel like a bus, although I guess I could see it. The RVS vote on Vedith from alban is just... I don't even know what to make of that. He was pretty upset after Vedith got lynched, which felt genuine to me. Io's was a strange interaction too, but I thought the rage quit was kinda town. I might be confbiasing there, though.

Llama I felt was the driving force behind the Vedith lynch, although I also feel that he helped catch Carca? Like at one point I was scum reading Llama for attacking Carca badly, which doesn't make any sense if they're both scum.

First, I would like to ask why you are clearing llama? I don't get it there. I thought his heding was atrocious, both in that post and especially in 714, and really typical of scum in TvS wagons. I sort of liked his tone and his thought process otherwise in the game though, but why are you clearing llama for the scummiest thing imo they have done in the game?

Can you point me to the reaction from Scorpious- I just know that his vote was horrible, I don't remember the reaction.


I am townreading the bolded part. I think that it would take guts and is unlikely for carca!scumbuddy to say nonchalantly that they were scumreading Llama for attacking Carca.

One thing I would be wary of is townreading Llama for "catching" carca when they didn't push him in the first place. Again, it's near level one scum to scumread your partner and the other person but push the other and just let your partner be.

Something about my behaviour as scum and town.
People who have played with me know this: I am a very proactive town, and a very laidback scum. Partial reason for this is coz I guess I am a transparent person irl, and my laidback game as a scum is to overcompensate the guilt and fear of getting caught. I try extra hard to not get in arguments, make excessive statements, or even try to take the game fwd.
As opposed to what Io and what a lot of other players say regarding maintaining a more even game, I have not done that coz I don't have and care for that sort of long-term vision for the game. I have more immediate concerns in a game as a town. And they are usually apparent in the way I wanna take charge and take the game fwd. I definitely don't have logical skills that help me see through, hence I rely a lot on my instinct, and they are usually not wrong. But then once the instinct tells something, I try to dissect that instinct and see if that stands the test of logic. And if it does, I go ahead with my suspicion in the form of a vote. There are certain games of me as a town which are exception to that. Where I begin as what I described, but then somewhere in the middle either I lose my interest, or I lose my centre and get confused. But the only way it works for me is if I proceed with my own reads and ways of playing the game rather than emulating someone else or going with the majority.

This post from Alban is pretty towny, but I'm struggling to find other towny things in his entire ISO. I see reads list and mechanics talk but not a lot of solving, and some of the conclusions he maks read fake.

@alban: Why are you sure he's town? And what are your thoughts on Carca?

There was a substantial overlap between his reads and mine.
His tone appeared the most natural.
His claim was obviously a joke.
Plus, a scum would confuse people, not clear them up, even as a joke. Even if they give tr on a few people, clearing 3 people at once, especially in the early D1 stage is less likely to be scum.
But no, I can't be sure. For the town's sake, let's hope I am wrong.

This stuff in particular is really bad. "His tone appeared most natural" is something that is valid but also something that is REALLY easy for scum to fake. Same with reads overlapping, it's a crappy, scummy reason to townread someone, same as all the other points.

Spoiler:

When I'm scum I usually just focus on when someone mentions me or my scumpartner, and not care about the rest of the game. ^

self

Quick question - is Self-meta a scumtell to you?

I can see scum using it more than town.

I still prefer Vedith but have increasingly no problem with Carcalilly lynch happening. What they have done this game almost perfectly describes their scum self-meta.

Both Vedith and Carcalillly are just different types of scummy.

Vedith is the "intentionally useless - adding clutter" type scum, who has done next to nothing but when they do actually start trying to play are really scummy for the most part, but with the amount of spam they add can essentially shrug off anything as a joke.

Carcalilly just seems to be detached from the game while still adding the "joking around" excuse to most of their stuff. For example they are voting alban, who apparently they thought was scum until the "fake claim" where they moved away and then forgot about moving away... and now two thirds of the way through day one are ready to "start taking things seriously".

Still think that Vedith is a slightly better lynch. Basically all they have done that shows any type of read is the joke claim, where they called a few played "confirmed town" and opened up a lynch pool without any sort of reasoning and followed through with it for enough time that it cant have been a joke that they were his scum reads. Trying to say things like "just trust me" and other statements along those lines do nothing to explain a read and at most can be reaction tests on others (but I somehow doubt there was that level of intent even if he is town). While I think most players would immediately see the claim as a joke, the fact that it was continued for so long still bothers me as there are a lot of newer players who might not be able to piece that together immediately.

Now he comes in with the Carcalilly vote late, when he basically ignored the role until I showed up and voted Vedith. First mention of them being scum since literally joke phases of the game, with no reason. It takes me starting to come down on Carcalilly before the vote shows up there.

@Carcalilly - Vedith read?
@alban - You haven't moved your vote in a long time. Still happy with it?
@MM - You aren't voting either major wagon. Basic thoughts on both?

Few other thoughts:

If Vedith or any of the players he notes as "cleared" are scum, I think Scorpious gains town points for recent posts.
One thing that is REALLY bugging me is that a lot of players seem to assume three scum. In 11P games it is very rare for there to be more than two scum. If we get to a F3 at any point, someone go back and read early thoughts to see who was implying three scum and give minor town/scum points accordingly.

So can we really just lynch Vedith? I somewhat trust that regardless of alignment Carcalilly will eventually produce some sort of reads and tells, Vedith is just backed into a corner and spouting WIFOM and trolling. What is the absolute best case with respect to Vedith here? Town that cant be trusted to contribute or make a pro-town move in the future?

Also, I initially didn't like Llama's statement about Scorpious either, but it's actually really smart - if Scorpious is scum with Vedith or one of Vedith's "clears," he knows for sure that the claim is a lie. And his posts really look like an inexperienced player who was caught off guard by the claim and feel for it. Does that make sense? That said, I agree that his play has been generally scummy.

Basically this. While I am not entirely sure if it was faked or not, scum would instantly know something is up if any of those four players is scum. If the exceedingly off chance that all are town though, while they may not know the correct approach moving forward they would know that something is wrong. Its a whole lot of WIFOM though as you have to start getting into theory of if players could intentionally present an ignorant approach to setup when they have additional information. Its basically a weaker version of the "player who forgets the open setup is town" tell.

It of course IS possible for it to be an 8:3 setup, but for that to happen you would need a very weak scum team and a stacked town. In the end you can balance it, but you are going to have a very swingy setup and its just not recommended.

Contains the stuff that's sort of giving like "here is some arguements for Vedith, here is for Carc" etc, and combined with the fact that they made that case on Carc and then ended up voting Vedith is bad.

Alban- explain to me why your ISO has a lack of scumhunting in it.

I'd also like you to explain more your almost ragequit. It's typically perceived as a town move but I've been seeing scum do it lately as well. What was going through your mind when you decided to leave and come back? Why were you prompted to make so much of a drastic decision?

I do think your point about IO saying Carca and VEdith are scumscum or towntown is a pretty good point and could come from a town mentality. I can't really defend against it except to say that it's so obviously scummy that there is little chance Io would say that as actual scum partners. I mean, it's like such a blatant pre flip analysis, which is something scummy in itself, and the ramifiactions get even more scummier from Io's theoreotical PoV if Carca were ever to flip. It's like something that's scummy in theory but in practice is TWTBAW

And on a similar point @llama- basically, you've reiterated that you had scumreads on Vedith/policy on Vedith and Carca too, etc, but my point is mostly that you made this big stuff on Carca and then your vote basically wasn't there when it mattered and instead you opted for your policy, and that in my experience it's very often for scum to try and hedge and try to seem like they are weighing all options then choose to vote the person not their partners in the end. There's very little you can say to try to change my mind about this, although I would like to continue to hear your thoughts. (And the strawman dosen't help)

Alban I hear you loud and clear about your playstyle. Trust me, I've been there (i barely try day 1 either at least half the games). But my problem isn't really the fact you aren't trying but more the fact you seemed to try to appear like you were solving, but in fact you really weren't. Do you get what I'm saying?

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as annoying .. I'm just really jittery right now XD

This is horrible self conciousness right now. Scummy.

It's LAMIST in other words, in a slimyish way

hello i'm probably going to look at vedith's reads now on people that arent tchill and carca and check if they are good
also tchill's i guess

wasnt scorpious online like 5 minutes ago i am 99% sure he was

also i'm still thinking of what productive things to do because i am fairly lost right now

everything i knew of this game was proven to be a lie n1

I'll do that!

one of the reasons I'm townreading Mario right now is because of absolutely fantastic tone. I think it's relatively towny to come in here and just say that fuck it I'm lost because it shows honesty when the scum would want to act gamesolvy. On the other hand, the fact that he has to justify it is really scummy. The bolded part is a subtle way of saying "yeah, I'm moping because I was bad day 1"= I pushed a mislynch day 1, and I was wrong day 1. It's like he is trying to highlight the persona of Mario that is devastated because he was

so

wrong day 1, except instead of doing it naturally he has to manually say, wow, it's having such a big effect on me that I'm going to just be moping.

Your that confident?

How about Scorpios.
We can do a day where I pick the lynch, then you get to pick the lynch the next day?

You fake claim and have the gall to start lining up lynches?

VOTE: Vedith

Respond to this shit vote

VOTE: Scorpious

Sorry WM but I want this wagon right now

Admittedly that's a good reason to scumread someone but I want to see where your getting that from me

Disgusting. You've pointed out two posts of mine out of 30 that I've made, and the two posts are the ones that can be construyed as typically scummy that actually aren't scummy, like self meta and pointing out that IO was obvious town. Comment on the rest of my posts, or make some advanacement of the game. This is the second time you've done it and it's starting to fucking annoy me

Damn, Homie.. chill....

Why are you so concerned about which posts I comment on? Do you think I should focus on something more mundane that you might have said?

Why did you post that nonsense about kinda following the game and wanted to replace into an "obvious" town slot? What purpose other than planting your town flag did it serve?

Lets say you were wrong. What then? How would you react to having to play scum which is something you plainly did not want according to you?

I think you should try and evaluate everything I am doing instead of the most level one push posts in the history of the world like self meta, which is perceived as scummy but isn't scummy and has also been pointed out by two other people before this... try and see if I actually am trying to solve and figure out theg ame, see if I have scum motiviation, and not go "doy, self meta", and basically say it's scummy (you implied this). That's a towny mentality. Scum mentality is looking at easy things to push without actually thinking it's scummy.

Your other questions are good. I posted about coming into an obvious town slot...with no other purpose to plant my town flag. I want to be townread. I don't want to be lynched, etc, etc. There is nothing wrong with this.

If I was scum I would be upset obviously but I would be dominating this town by now and universally townread. Not to brag but I've been nominated for my scum game etc and in all my scum games so far I've almost been totally townread (except for WHymafia LMAO). I'd also be towntelling and trying to gather townreads instead of actually solving the game like I'm doing now. I'd be fake inquisitive and my points and pushes would be less deep, but my tone would be godly and I would have fervent energy in pursuing my fake goal of pushing scum.

On the other hand I like your response lmao and your reasons for scumreading me are valid.

VOTE: Alban

Steel, I can see the points Llama is making coming from town as well as experienced scum. It's natural to be skeptical of some of the IO stuff, and I think there's a decent chance Llama is just being idiotic. I don't understand the Alban stuff, he hasn't been trying to sort at all and his posts today are extremely scummy, AND he's voting Whymafia for a crappy reason (and who is obvious town).

VOTE: Awesome

Town can be wrong and tunnel and be confirmation bias too, keep this in mind when scumread Llama. Those aren't good reasons to scumread them.

This is a blatant TvS misrepresentation between me and Llama, and it shows you aren't trying to sort with a shitton of more people in the game as well.

You had the hedging like Llama did but 1000X worse.

I mean obviously it's super hard to townread Llama and to not OMGUS them immediately when they make an hour long post on me, have been locked on me scum since day 1, haven't read my posts, and have confirmation bias up the wazoo, but unfortuantely some players are like that.

Yes, I think Llama is most likely misguided town.

This is all assuming one scum obviously but I think it's in you and Alban with offchances of Llama and Scorpy

I'm having trouble following that, but yeah, I think it's TvT at this point and that you were doming us (And feeding the llama).

I am self aware. If you want to consider that a scumtell, go ahead, but it's literally just that I am aware of how I look, and so are you all even if you all pretend you are perfect little townies that don't care if you are lynched, yes you are. The WhyMafia self awareness is scummy because it 1) Dosent fit his meta and 2) Is slimy and subtle

When I am scum I am always townread by everyone, I don't have to answer to idiocy like this because I Know how to get towncred. I am definitely not focused on that this game, and trust me I know how to make it look natural. Just believe me that I would be dominating if I was scum, and look at Large Normal 203 or Penguin's Mafia Redux if you don't believe me.

WHat is wrong that you can't understand that it's valid and also easy for scum to fake??????????

What is the logic gap here? What don't you understand? I am in shock here, what is not understand that goes through your brain that thinks these are mutually exclusive???

Pocketing and buddying are the same thing in a sense but pocketing is when a scum player tries to get a town player to townread them. Like when Carca did the naked townread on IO.

___________________________________________-


On to an actual topic:

I don't remember why I townread Mario but I remember thinking they were obvious town through my read of day 1. I'd probably have to reread to find hard reasons/specific posts I liked, but their tone was incredible and everything seemed natural. However, I didn't like their excuse/doubt 3 post day today which I sort of pointed out.

Steel was the main person on Carca all game? Unless they hard bussed day 1 with possible 2 scum, I heavily doubt he's scum.

Whymafia is obvious town through meta, he is a fucking horrible scum player and he is naturally scummy as town.

Ehh

VOTE: Alban

This is a good wagon for today

Mulch, have you explained why you think Llama is town? I can't find it.

First; I'm not SURE they are town, just I think that most likely they are town.
Really, the scummy part about Llama is that they are deciding I'm scum and then finding examples to support it, but they've made it clear that's their policy. Their frustration is genuine. I also think the stuff they think are scummy from me can easily come from a misguided town's PoV- The self meta (a lot idiocitically think it's scummy), the "hypocricy" which I think is a misunderstand, the supposed town grabbyness from me with my first post (which is sort of true but again not scummy), and the spew from Io/Carca interactions, which can easily be misinterpreted as w/w as first without realizing that Carca was obviously pocketing IO.

In short, they are wrong, but it's stuff that is coming from a good PoV and is something that I could easily see coming from town.

What's more, a recent developement, the softening and the doubt is something super natural for town while I think scum would continue to tunnel me with their tone as well as the vote.

That statement is scummy and LAMIST. It's bad to talk about how you are going to gamesolve in the future

And it's also highlighting the fact that you WOULD be gamesolving like a good little towny but poor you have little time

3) One more thing that I don't want to talk about before we massclaim because it could give scum pointers.

This is super Lamist and scummy, AGAIN.

Llama why do you still have your vote on me? Have you read my posts? Do you disagree with them? Why are you insisting on keeping your vote with me when I've answered all of your qualms to the point that you literally have no response to them? Why are you insisting on being so stubborn on the off chance of being a hero when even BEFORE I totally explained everything you had problems with you STILL were considering between me and someone else (i forget who). What the fuck? Stop tunneling and reconsider and admit your wrong

imo zero post Scorpious has made a more legitimate point against me than all of Llama's post's combined (except maybe the ONE post about Io to carca towntown), and Llama has written 5 wallposts.

VOTE: Llama

Fuck it idc anymore, again another misrepresentaiton that most of my posts have been telling you to stop tunneling which have been 3/107 posts, and that my priority is not being lynched which is DUMB as fuck because it's fucking natural that I am defensive when you call me scum for bullshit reasons and tunnel me despite me being obvious town

3) One more thing that I don't want to talk about before we massclaim because it could give scum pointers.

This is super Lamist and scummy, AGAIN.

Oh yes. Because telling scum what types of roles are almost out of the question to be in the game is a smart thing to do before massclaim.

This is one of the scummiest things I've seen you do, you COMPLETELY ignored my point let alone ignored the last tiem I called you out for being LAMIST. This is fucking BAD. I nevver said that it was smart or dumb. I called it LAMIST as in LOOK AT MY ASS I'm SO FUCKING TOWN.

"Let's not do this to give scum pointers" effect is saying look at me I'm not scuma nd I'm gonna make a strategic decision to show them that I am not scum! The towny thing to say is saying look let's not say blah blah cause it's bad, not trying to emphasize how YOU are on a separate team from the SCUM when it could give THEM pointers

That statement is scummy and LAMIST. It's bad to talk about how you are going to gamesolve in the future

And it's also highlighting the fact that you WOULD be gamesolving like a good little towny but poor you have little time

You completely fucking ignored this

Let's go through Llama's "progression" on my tone reads. Llama's main point scumreading ME (the rest is ALL Io/Carca spew in her case), is that I like to say that tone reads are fakeable yet I used them.

I've explained about FIVE times that both can exist at the same time. You STILL refuse to acknowledge that you are wrong about this. WHY IS IT A SCUMTELL TO SAY THAT TONE READS ARE FAKEABLE BUT ALSO USE THEM???

It's NOT A SCUMTELL. It's NOT. You just keep REITERATING and SAYING AND SAYING AND SAYING this same thing over and over like it's some great revelation when I have even EXPLAINED IN DEATIAL when I said Alban's tone was fakeable that this was in cojunction with a SHITTY reads list and yet you fucking keep saying it's "discrediting" my reads and even if they DID there is ZERO Explicit scum motivation in this

You have fucking again and again misrepresented what I am saying and slimy moved on to another topic, I've noticed it about FIVE times and look in my ISO because I don't have the willpower right now to make a massive fucking wall post about this

This latest LAMIST thing wher You try to answer a different poiint. Did I say it was a bad idea? Did I say it was a good idea?

I FUCKING said that it was LAMIST, and you respond, oh, so it was a bad idea?

NO. THATS NOT WHAT I AM SAYING. YOu KNOW this. You are intelligent fucking enough

mentioning that you aren't concerned is scummy.

[Mulch]

The SCUM reaction to being called scum early is to ignore it and try to buddy the fuck up to you or call you out or shit. The TOWN reaction is to take offense and try to change it because they CARE. Scum try to seem like they don't care, town actually care. You NEED to realize this because you fucking made an entire wall post when I called you scum to defend as well, and once you have locked onto me as scum you haven't changed anything at all and havent commented on everything except to defend yourself from my attacks, which proves you care again. Man up and realize that your stereotypical scum tells are wrong.

So... WIFOM defense?

No

[Mulch]

The SCUM reaction to being called scum early is to ignore it and try to buddy the fuck up to you or call you out or shit. The TOWN reaction is to take offense and try to change it because they CARE. Scum try to seem like they don't care, town actually care. You NEED to realize this because you fucking made an entire wall post when I called you scum to defend as well, and once you have locked onto me as scum you haven't changed anything at all and havent commented on everything except to defend yourself from my attacks, which proves you care again. Man up and realize that your stereotypical scum tells are wrong.

So... WIFOM defense?

No

You don't know what WIFOM is

[Mulch]

Tone is a fine reason to scumread someone but is also easily faked from scum. It's worth going into

Blah blah again. If something is easily faked its not a good tell....

Disagree, but what's scummy about me reading someone based on tone if it's easily faked... I mean, does that mean every easily faked thing is coming from scum? lmao

[Mulch]

In terms of the IO/Carca interactions, there are some valid points here. When I skimmed over it I saw some obvious pocketing instances from Carca onto IO, which I think you should look over. The one specific instances you brought up with self meta isn't actually something scummy imo.

So your best defense as to why the interaction is TvS is a basically RVS stage "town" post from Carcalilly direted at Io?

I'm saying this is an obvious pocket. I mean, considering there were like 5 posts overall that included them, I don't know what you mean by "best defense" lol

[Mulch]

The vote hedging and choosing Vedith obviously looks scummy in hindsight but to be fair you did it too, and a lot of people did it, and all I can say is IO must have truly thought Vedith was more scummy than Carca.

Excellent to note here that Mulch is saying that I am scum for what even they say is the exact same thing Io did.

....and? I know IO was town when they were doing it, that dosen't mean it was any less scummy from you or IO lol

[Mulch]

Town wants to look town. Town does not melt down when they are read as scum. Also self-meta is absolutely a scum tell, this game already proved it.

Town wants to look town. Town does melt down when they are scumread for bullshit reasons. And self-meta is not a scumtell, just because one person did it as scum, sweetie, does not mean that everyone does.

[Mulch]

VOTE: Llama

[Mulch]

Until you retract the 3 lies you did I'm not unparking. This is more to prove a point than a scumread. Retract the lies.

[Mulch]

Actually, I'm not going to sink to your level.

VOTE: Alban

[Mulch]

2) Apparently refusing to give scum info about what to/what not to fakeclaim is a scum tell.

This is a LIE. Tell me where I say this. A flat out LIE.

This one is bothering me in particular

[Mulch]

1) and is willing to "lose the game"

This is another lie. Please show me where I said this.

You've in all likeihood lost us the game and are basically in effect FORCING me to vote you, and if we are bogth town we both go in the mislymches one after another and we fucking lose if there are 3 scum

There are eight alive. Two lynches and two NKs are four alive. If there are three scum, you say you are willing to lose the game over this. When you later start trying to argue you don't know how many scum there are, this is you saying you are willing to lose the game if you are town.

8 people. 1 scum. 7 town. We both go down, we go to LyLo. If 8 people, 2 scum, 6 town, we lose if we both go down. That's it. It's not hard, it's like first grade math.

[Mulch]

First off, town do not know that Alban is scum. Town SUSPECT that alban is scum. Do you think I know for 100% that Alban is scum?

Besides that, the point I was making about your scummyness had nothing to do with Alban. It was that you were already making pre flips and chaining lynches.


Oh so you were "making a point" about willing to go to lylo where your top read would be lynched out of principle.

How is me saying "if Mulch and AUN are town, its probably in alban/Scorp" any different then you making a read list where you literally put every lynch preference in order? I have three town reads. I have two scum reads. I have two players I don't have much of a read on.

Because I'm not saying, hey let's lynch A, and if he flipps town, lynch B, then C! And then we win!

I'm saying I want to lynch A right now, and I don't have a lynch order set after (ie, pre flips), because I am FLUID and am willing to CHANGE

[Mulch]

This is a LIE. Tell me where I say this. A flat out LIE.

Once again, it's that you were being LAMIST that is scummy, not this. Again.


So you saying "this is a really bad post" means you have no read off of it? Really?

I said you were scummy. You were scummy. What are you even saying

[Mulch]

Why are you voting alban anyway?

Finally, a good question.

I've already outlined it before but I'll say it again, just for you <3


Alban day 1 had a very bad vote on Vedith, which was stuck there for the entire game. In my experience scum are much more likely to stick with a vote the entire day, and he never changed it. WhyMafia had a great addition to this point that he apparently felt upset that Vedith was wagoned but didn't feel the need to take his vote off.

Besides that, his reads are very surface level, ALL of them are fakeable, and they don't look genuine and natural. He wanted to LOOK townread, but didn't actually gamesolve. The readslist I pointed out earlier specifically was horrible and full of level one thoughts and not like he wanted to really scumread.


Their stuff today has been manipulative and avoiding of the question of why he was doing that; he passed it off as not wanting to play day 1, but that dosen't really try and answer the question.

[Mulch]

Finally: Why the fuck are you avoiding half of my points lol and only responding to some.

ANd you still haven't addressed the lies, lol

[Mulch]

Honestly if you really want to know the truth, the reason I'm not voting you llama is cause I think scum would be too suicidal to attack me at this point when they know they will get autolynched when I flip, lol

At this point it's most likely you are a scumfuck townie with visions of glory that won't admit they are wrong because they don't like how I keep showing how they are scummy and wrong lol cause I'm annoying that way

[Mulch]

I'm gonna make this quick.

When you said, t's either you (meaning me) or someone else, and if not X or Y, that's different than posting a reads list.

I don't understand your Albban scumread, dumb it down for me. The only part I get is the not unvoting Vedith and the vote hedging.

And, I have never said I want to lose. Jesus chirst

[Mulch]

W/e, time will tell. I don't really want to respond to you anymore cause even though it's satisfying it's not really doing anyone any good. Let's see what others have to think about it.

[Mulch]

DEfending yourself? What's the point in defending Yourself alban! Only wolves care about getting lynched!!!!!


-Channeling llama

[Mulch]

What's the point of the chart?

[Mulch]

Alban quick question have you read any of the Llama/ Mulch stuff? Who do u think comes out looking better?