Mini 2150 - Anime SeiyuU-Pick [SHOW'S OVER!]

[mastina]

Hi guys, I am a mason.

[mastina]

Oh, and HEAL: Deimos
We win these.

I can get behind this.
HEAL: Deimos
(Deimos is town.)

[mastina]

As long as I'm HEAL: Holden
I'm VOTE: GoldenI'm voting and healing Holden Golden just to be clear.

No heal for The Master? No townbloc for you!

I did consider healing Deimos.

HURT: Tuxedo Mask

Mutual scum distancing.

VOTE: Tuxedo Mask

[mastina]

hello

Second strong townread! (Mikul I lean town on but am not solidly townreading, Shiro's dead null so far. So.)

[mastina]

Hello boys and girls, and other donkeys.

Also town.

[mastina]

UNVOTE: tuxedo
VOTE: Battle Mage
Serious vote. Broke jojoke code.

One vote is as good as the other!
VOTE: Battle Mage

[mastina]

Do Mason's function in the way they do in the noob games or do they recruit town and die if they hit scum?

The latter is called a masonizer.

[mastina]

Deimos27

HoldenGolden
popopopopopopo

Mikul

TrueSoulEnergy
Shiro
TheThirteenthJT
Panther and Fox (HYDRA: ??? + ???)

Panzerjager
Sujimichi

Tuxedo Mask
Battle Mage

Locktown, strong town, lean town, null, nullscum, scum.

[mastina]

My seiyu is Rikiya Koyama. The role is Tora from Ushio and Tora. I am neutral alignment with no win condition due to being trapped by a holy spear until I have to drawn 3 night actions on separate nights. After that I am freed from the spear I become Town w/ what I'm only willing to describe as strong powers. I'd appreciate your cooperation.

While I am pretty sure this is bullshit, I feel obliged to humor it on policy alone since I see no harm in proving it's fake down the line.

[mastina]

MOD ANNOUNCEMENT

I forgot to announce, this was supposed to be announced at daystart.

mastina has the Loved condition and will require 1 more vote to be voted out.

Well. This part is public I guess but it's worth mentioning that it's a named townie effect; my loved status disables when I am at L-2, L-1, or L-0, so I don't

actually

take one more vote to lynch. Not unless I have the auction power which reenables the Loved status while at L-2/L-1/L-0.

[mastina]

I haven’t read anything this game and want to make sure This Buff isn’t given to good scum.
If BM is the scum he can easily be caught.

Does not compute.

Battle Mage is, historically, proven repeatedly, to be one of THE most skilled scum players of all time onsite. My very first game onsite is proof enough of that.

[mastina]

Least 1 scum within Mastina and Tuxedo.

Sure then help me vote Tuxedo.

[mastina]

how, my audition power makes me loved, btw

Extra skeptical of Panzer now because that's literally my audition power.

To be clear, this is how my role works, paraphrasing to avoid a modkill:
I have a day passive, that when I am NOT currently at two or less votes away from the original lynch requirement, being Loved. But when I am at two or less votes away from the original lynch requirement, I DO NOT have the Loved ability.
My audition bonus grants the day passive, "when you are currently at two or less votes away from the original lynch requirement, Loved."

That is as close to a direct quote of my role PM as I can get without being modkilled for it.

[mastina]

-The mason claim is NAI to me rn until its doubled down on. I really only see it as a joke post. I think the scummest thing posted so far by mastina is actually the readlist; mainly since the reads seem to be following who said hello (me, demos, popopop) and not actually rooted in any content.

It IS rooted in content. It was specifically saying 'hello' instead of producing content which gave me the townread because it shows that the players are fairly lax and casual with no need to feel the requirement to look town. (Contrast with Battle Mage and Tuxedo Mask, whose posts are forced attempts to look town without actually being town.)

I'm planning to explain the reads once caught up.

[mastina]

Teehee
At least I know tuxedo is town now

I don't. There are better gambits than a fake vig for determining townness given that you'd have to be really really dumb as scum to believe a dayvig is real and it is standard play as scum to treat the dayvig as real and produce content to sell the illusion that you're a townie.

What the gambit does do is make me more sure you're town tho.

[mastina]

Deimos27
HoldenGolden

popopopopopopo

Mikul
TrueSoulEnergy

Shiro

TheThirteenthJT
Panther and Fox (HYDRA: ??? + ???)

Sujimichi

Tuxedo Mask
Battle Mage

Locktown, strong town, weak town, lean town null, nullscum, scum.

(Panzer removed due to 3p claim thus invalidating reads on him. But it should be stated I am incredibly skeptical of his claim both the original claim and also his audition power literally being mine.)

[mastina]

Deimos27
HoldenGolden

popopopopopopo

Mikul
TrueSoulEnergy

Shiro

TheThirteenthJT
Panther and Fox (HYDRA: ??? + ???)

Sujimichi

Tuxedo Mask
Battle Mage

Locktown, strong town, weak town, lean town null, nullscum, scum.

(Panzer removed due to 3p claim thus invalidating reads on him. But it should be stated I am incredibly skeptical of his claim both the original claim and also his audition power literally being mine.)

Deimos has just been so unbelievably town in every front in a way I cannot imagine could ever come from scum.

HoldenGolden's posts this game have felt incredibly natural and casual, in a way that I felt wasn't manipulative, wasn't forced, wasn't with an agenda, and the fake-dayvig reaction test only solidifies it, following with his reasoning for having tried it in the first place. While I disagree with his conclusion from it that Tuxedo Mask is town, I follow exactly why he thinks that and I don't think he as scum goes through the effort of setting up such an elaborate ruse, one which doesn't give any benefit to himself.

popo's the lesser cousin of HoldenGolden due to less content but a similar entrance.

Mikul's prodding and poking of Battle Mage felt in contrast to the interactions with Battle Mage and Tuxedo Mask. Whereas BM-TM interactions felt like scum distancing, Mikul's interactions with Battle Mage felt like sincere scumhunting, and Mikul's presence in regards to other slots also feels natural.

TSE's entrance into the game immediately screams town to me because I can just kinda see into his thoughts, even if I know they're faulty and not reflective of reality, because I can tell that he believes them to be true, and if he believes them to be true, then what he's done makes perfect sense and vibes with a town mindset.

Shiro, well. Shiro I used to know how to read but have forgotten. I kinda lean town right now mostly off of gut and thinking, "this seems to be the Shiro I remember as town", but I admit, my memory is probably not reliable, thus how weak of a read it is.

Panther and Fox (just realized that's probably a Persona 5 reference!) are unable to post, thus, obviously, null. Their absence is explained and effectively they are not a player. If I had to guess, I would guess town because an inability to post in-threads would also mean inability to post in PTs and I feel like an inability to post in PTs would've been brought up earlier, resolving the issue sooner; that it took so long seems to suggest they didn't have a PT to post in and it wasn't until the game started that they realized there was an issue preventing them from posting.

The Thirteenth JT's posted, but the post was utter dead nullness--if any of my scumreads were wrong, just by process of elimination, The Thirteenth JT would be a de facto default scumread.

Sujimichi I admit isn't so much a real scumread so much as a tradition. I feel obligated to place Sujimichi in this category until Sujimichi actually shows up.

Tuxedo Mask's early content felt forced, especially in regards to Battle Mage.

And Battle Mage's content has screamed scum setting up an excellent performance pretending to be town, doing things which look town, but which aren't actually town, feeling forced, stifled, and wholly artificial, calculated and precise every step of the way with no fluidity to his thoughts, nothing natural to them. His play is clinical here in a way I feel indicates he's probably scum.

[mastina]

Oh forgot to include the removed-from-readslist Panzerjager, but I feel he bears further mentioning.
I immediately got the vibe that Panzer wasn't town because if he were town I'd expect there to be some sort of pressure from him on me because I said "Hi I am a mason" and the last time I said I was a mason in a game with Panzer, well...he was down my throat the entire time pretty much.

Him claiming third party gives that a reasonable explanation, but I find the third party claim to be suspect since Panzer is someone who, I seem to recall, has the mindset of murdering 3p claims on policy, by and large. I admit this is mostly to memory, thus, not reliable, but I also seem to recall Panzer plays 3p differently than this. His claimed 3p role is also hard to verify, and then on top of all that, his claimed auction power is literally my auction power so I am directly a counterclaim to his claimed ability.

All-in-all, I feel that there's a very real chance that he's scum fakeclaiming third party,

but

, I feel obligated to, at least for now, humor him, because I feel that

if

he's telling the truth, there's no harm in letting him get a wincon, and he's certainly not the best D1 lynch. He's not the

worst

D1 lynch, because he's either scum or 3p, but I feel there are better options.

[mastina]

??? i made one post - hello

And that one post was enough to give me a townread on you.

[mastina]

she also has a history of fake claiming masons as scum.

Provably and demonstrably false.

I have a long established history of fakeclaiming mason to the point where it is a meme, sure!

I was town in every single one of those games.

I've never fakeclaimed mason as scum. Not once.

Now I've always said that I

could

fakeclaim masons as scum, it's not like me claiming masons is a trust tell where I refuse to fakeclaim mason as scum and always fakeclaim mason as town.

But it so happens that

so far

, out of probably three dozen mason claims, between actually being a mason and the numerous times I faked it, NONE were with me as scum. Absolutely none of them.

This might have some tie into my refusal to fakeclaim as scum because as scum I refuse to be caught in a lie, I believe the truth is the most deadly weapon for scum to have on their side because if scum have truth on their side, it means towns accusing them of lying are in the wrong, giving scum the ability to be sincere and genuine, something impossible to wholly and truly 100% fake. If scum are being 100% absolutely purely genuine and sincere because they're telling the absolute truth, they can become more town than actual town.

(But, again, it's not like I refuse to fakeclaim as scum as a trust tell on policy of, "I'm scum therefore I will not lie about my claim", so much as I truly and sincerely believe that the

optimal play

as scum is to not lie, and that lying would be suboptimal. I COULD decide one day to make that suboptimal play, it's just that I probably never actually will because I'll always favor the optimal play because it's, well, optimal.)

[mastina]

(Now granted! I have, as town, claimed masons WITH scum. THAT? That I am guilty of, I will admit. It is an inherent risk in the mason gambit, and one that I am always prepared for. But Panzer didn't say I have a history of fakeclaiming masons with scum, he said I have a history of fakeclaiming masons AS scum. The former is true, the latter is not.)

[mastina]

As long as I'm HEAL: Holden
I'm VOTE: GoldenI'm voting and healing Holden Golden just to be clear.

No heal for The Master? No townbloc for you!

I did consider healing Deimos.

HURT: Tuxedo Mask

Mutual scum distancing.
VOTE: Tuxedo Mask

UNVOTE: tuxedo
VOTE: Battle Mage
Serious vote. Broke jojoke code.

One vote is as good as the other!
VOTE: Battle Mage

Tuxedo Mask
Battle Mage
scum.

Tuxedo Mask's early content felt forced, especially in regards to Battle Mage.

And Battle Mage's content has screamed scum setting up an excellent performance pretending to be town, doing things which look town, but which aren't actually town, feeling forced, stifled, and wholly artificial, calculated and precise every step of the way with no fluidity to his thoughts, nothing natural to them. His play is clinical here in a way I feel indicates he's probably scum.

Hello my good sir. Are you in the market for pockets? Because you've definitely got me pocketed. <3

[mastina]

Oops. Forgot the most important quote in there.

Tuxedo Mask was the scumread we both agreed on, I heavily disliked the way he approached his question Holden. It seems quite clear that it was a reaction test, and he never posted a response to Holden's answer until he was later called out on this post. I also don't think the dayvig test Holden used on him was likely to work, as the odds of Holden actually daykilling a player so early into the game was close to zero. I found his mastina vote underwhelming as well, so I'd be interested to see how he reacts to mastina's latest posts.

The other player whose posting I found unsightly was Battle Mage's. In particular, his early aggression seems at odds with his reaction mastina's claim - namely the empty unvote. Battle Mage, if you were so willing to try and pressure us before your mastina vote, why were you unwilling to return there after the Mason claim changed your mind?

As long as I'm HEAL: Holden
I'm VOTE: GoldenI'm voting and healing Holden Golden just to be clear.

No heal for The Master? No townbloc for you!

I did consider healing Deimos.

HURT: Tuxedo Mask

Mutual scum distancing.
VOTE: Tuxedo Mask

UNVOTE: tuxedo
VOTE: Battle Mage
Serious vote. Broke jojoke code.

One vote is as good as the other!
VOTE: Battle Mage

Tuxedo Mask
Battle Mage
scum.

Tuxedo Mask's early content felt forced, especially in regards to Battle Mage.

And Battle Mage's content has screamed scum setting up an excellent performance pretending to be town, doing things which look town, but which aren't actually town, feeling forced, stifled, and wholly artificial, calculated and precise every step of the way with no fluidity to his thoughts, nothing natural to them. His play is clinical here in a way I feel indicates he's probably scum.

Hello my good sir. Are you in the market for pockets? Because you've definitely got me pocketed. <3

[mastina]

ANIME SEIYUU-PICK EPISODE 1

VOTECOUNT 1.2

mastina (L)

(4): Deimos27, Tuxedo Mask, Mikul, Panzerjager

Tuxedo Mask

(3): TrueSoulEnergy, Battle Mage, Panther and Fox

Battle Mage

(2): HoldenGolden,

mastina(L)

Oh I thought the Battle Mage wagon was larger than the Tuxedo Mask one.
VOTE: Tuxedo Mask
Will happily vote either.

[mastina]

I'm specifically referring to the motivation behind claiming in that way. What would town mastina gain from that?

Surprisingly a lot.

I wouldn't say I am a mason in the way I did if it didn't provide benefits the way it does, and yet time and time again, it always seems to give me benefits.

If it aint broke, no need to fix it, and since it still gives me benefits...

[mastina]

Deimos27
Panther and Fox
HoldenGolden

popopopopopopo

Mikul
TrueSoulEnergy

Shiro

TheThirteenthJT

Sujimichi

(*Panzer)
Tuxedo Mask
Battle Mage

Updated readslist, decided I should list Panzer in here anyway in spite of his 3p claim to note my disbelieval of it.

[mastina]

To note I really don't like the idea of clemency because her meta is that she only fake claims "Mason as town". It's way to easy to claim that as scum at that point.

Sure!

It'd be easy to fakeclaim mason as scum because of a track record of fakeclaiming mason as town.

But the fact of the matter is, while I could fakeclaim mason as scum and you never know, maybe for some strange random reason of all games this one just so happens to randomly be the one where I actually do it.

The simple fact is. Provably and demonstrably, can be shown by manually sifting through all of my games.

I've never, to this date, fakeclaimed mason as scum.

I could! And every game I claim mason could be that magical mystical first game where it's actually a scum fakeclaim.

But I haven't.

[mastina]

Mod: V/LA for unspecified amount of time due to SOMEHOW having gotten a fever in spite of not having left my house since the beginning of quarantine

Am sickkkkk need rest.

[mastina]

Why do you believe that Deimos is town?

Because Deimos's play here has been insanely town.

This isn't necessarily true masons w/ diff alignments is a thing

Is this allowed outside of games advertised as bastard?

No. Masons are, explicitly, town-aligned. We have a role for masons that are not town-aligned; it's called Neighbor. Masons that aren't conftown to each other haven't been a thing since 2010. They used to be a thing before the role of Neighbor existed, but utterly ceased to be after the invention of the neighborhood, after which they became guaranteed to be conftown.

There is one exception to this rule: a slightly archaic type of Open setup that's multiball, Masons and Monks, where Masons/Monks are guaranteed to not be members of one scum faction but can be a member of the other. But that IS an EXCEPTION, owing to it being a niche multiball setup, an archaic old setup dating to days so old that neighbors didn't even exist, and being very specifically for that setup. But you can't point to that setup and go, "this proves masons aren't conftown because a mason just means not-mafia!", because no, mason doesn't mean not-mafia, mason means conftown. It's one specific, archaic, niche setup where mason doesn't mean conftown. In literally every other scenario, Normals (scum masons are not a thing, Mason is a town-exclusive role), Themes, wherever. Masons are town ONLY.

Scum masons are, explicitly, bastard.

[mastina]

I took a look at the game with fresh eyes and Mikui has stuck out the most to me. Just keeps making excuses. 33, 36, 52, 55, wants us to not scumread them because they are generally scumread for the way they play?

Post 164 seems like a faked reaction and it really pings me. Calls BM out for a "hammer" and immediately follows with a "unless I'm reading it wrong". Seems like a very obvious attempt at LAMiSt. I'm confused with 175 and it just seems like an attempt to join the fray of players outing their abilities. Now I do agree with their points on the push on Mastina. I just don't see prs claiming like that and their defence over it is I only do it as town. Regardless this is a very easy person to push and I feel like regardless of Mastinas alignment it's a very easy wagon to push.

Overa the Mastina situation is definitely weird for me but WIFOM.

As for Tuxedo mask, they are playing really confident. Those are the vibes I have from them. Jokes around a lot early on and very abious LAMIST attempts. Even they feel like it's an attempt to make a joke. Also obvious Buddying with Golden. And then post 223.... Playing the too scummy to be scum card hard. Right now I see Tuxedo as far more scummy than Mastina.

Mikui my vote on you is dependant on the following question. You say people read you as scummy for your general play, why not just play along with the meta or just do your own thing instead of claiming these things in order to make excuses for how you may play? Wouldn't it be easier as town to just do your thing and if someone calls you out for let's say not Rvs then explain it and tell people to meta it. Then just ignore it front here on. I feel like most town players won't elimnated you kn this fact alone, and really it may weed out the scum who will continue to push that point. (This exact situation happened to me in the past.)

This post kinda feels like newbscum who doesn't know how to give good analysis.

[mastina]

I may reconsidering lynching her if it's "her meta"

As has been already established and verified: it is.

but I really want pressure on the possibility of a second mason.

As has already been established, there's no real town reason for this.

That said, I feel that while Mikul's stance is anti-town, it is most decidedly not scum; to the contrary, I think it's quite town from Mikul.

And Panzer claimed his role as mastina's audition power? Huh.

That plus his sketchy claim and play by his own confession being against his normal policies is why I am incredibly suspicious of him.

[mastina]

I'd rather eliminate scum than a 3p that seems harmless, especially if it's 3p that can become strong town. They are a valid default/compromise, though.

^This. If Panzer isn't scum, then he's a harmless 3p. But he wouldn't be a terrible lynch due to the very real possibility that he's scum fakeclaiming 3p. So he's not the best lynch to push forward, but if push comes to shove and we need a lynch and can't get a better one, he's a fine compromise-lynch.

[mastina]

Mikul, since mastina has established a meta of multiple dozen games fakeclaiming mason

only

as town, on what basis have you decided that this is the game she is breaking against her scum philosophy?

This is false, it's both alignments.

This is false; it's never been done by me as scum.

I can link to every scumgame I've ever played to prove it.

And even if I didn't, the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. Panzer is leveling the accusation that I've fakeclaimed mason as scum before--the burden of proof is on him to deliver it. But he won't because he can't because it doesn't exist because I haven't.

So yes, Panzer is outright lying about me.

[mastina]

I'm not looking through all of her games to find the times she was a fake claiming mason as scum

Because they literally don't exist.

People believe a lot of Word of Mouth about me, but it's word of mouth that if people actually looked into it, they'd find it often doesn't actually have basis in reality. This is no exception.

People can spread the rumor all they want that I have fakeclaimed mason as scum before.
But people spreading the rumor that I have fakeclaimed mason as scum before, doesn't mean I have.

Panzer is correct--I have been accused of fakeclaiming mason as scum before.
What he leaves out is that each time that accusation is levied, the accuser fails to back the accusation up with evidence--because they can't, because the accusation is false, because I don't have any games where I was scum and fakeclaimed mason.

[mastina]

mastina, vote for Shiro already.

Read any given Shiro game and tell me that Shiro in this game sticks out as definitely scum.

I'm not going to put Shiro as locktown by any measure but Shiro's not south of null for me so I'm not voting there.
This is a Shiro game.
So is this.
So is this.
So is this.
So is this.
So is this.
So is this.

A grand total of one of those games is a scumgame; the others are all towngames.

Can you tell which is the scumgame easily and clearly without cheating?

[mastina]

˘\_( õ ‹3 ó)_/˘ The questioning from

TheThirteenthJT

in 147 is slightly town. I find his concerns over the roles outing in 279 fairly believable. I don't really like his reads in 307 (but then, I'm biased). They seem focused on silly details like Mikul making excuses early or tuxedo joking around a lot, neither of which feel like particularly believable reads. However, the little bit of emotional appeal in 314 pulls at my kitty heart, and from the reference to a previous newbie game has me believing he may just be someone who expresses themselves in a way others see as inherently scummy. His defense of "I know I'm being hypocritical by pointing it out on the other wagon but so far they are all easy wagoss to push." feels like a fairly honest statement to make. I think he might just be overwhelmed town.

catboi is the Tuxedo Mask slot, right?

I can't help but think that TheThirteenthJT's content in regards to the Tuxedo slot, and that catboi's treatment of them, is scum-scum.

[mastina]

Mastina, can I check, are you suggesting you can't read Shiro at all based on meta, and that is sufficient to not vote her here?

No, Shiro can be read off of meta and I used to know how--but I forgot the method I used to read Shiro off of said meta, which means that currently it's more or less 'yes'.

However, while I might not be able to remember what Shiro's tell is--I can say this about Shiro regardless. Even without a meta tell on Shiro, Shiro's alignment becomes more clear with time. Shiro cannot carry a scumteam even when scum. Shiro contributes virtually nothing regardless of alignment. Because of this lack of contribution regardless of alignment, Shiro is the least-valuable member of any given scumteam, and with other scum dead, Shiro is quick to be exposed. That much I remember about Shiro quite clearly. Shiro won't carry a game as town, but Shiro won't carry a game as scum. More than that, a Shiro lynch gives the town almost nothing regardless of Shiro's alignment. If Shiro's scum, nothing to find scumbuddies from; if Shiro's town, we get no info from what amounted to a policy lurker-lynch since there's no way to tell the scum hopping on an easy wagon apart from the town who believed it was a good wagon.

I'm not going to give Shiro an indefinite pass. Heck I want Shiro to post more and if Shiro continues to not, I might even frustrate-vote Shiro just to apply pressure to Shiro. But I don't think Shiro's a good D1 lynch; Shiro's a good D3 or so lynch, if suspicion remains.

Basically, Shiro isn't getting an indefinite pass from me, but

currently

has a temporary one.

[mastina]

So, you're saying fakeclaiming mason here means you must be town?

I covered this subject already:

she also has a history of fake claiming masons as scum.

Provably and demonstrably false.

I have a long established history of fakeclaiming mason to the point where it is a meme, sure!

I was town in every single one of those games.

I've never fakeclaimed mason as scum. Not once.

Now I've always said that I

could

fakeclaim masons as scum, it's not like me claiming masons is a trust tell where I refuse to fakeclaim mason as scum and always fakeclaim mason as town.

But it so happens that

so far

, out of probably three dozen mason claims, between actually being a mason and the numerous times I faked it, NONE were with me as scum. Absolutely none of them.

This might have some tie into my refusal to fakeclaim as scum because as scum I refuse to be caught in a lie, I believe the truth is the most deadly weapon for scum to have on their side because if scum have truth on their side, it means towns accusing them of lying are in the wrong, giving scum the ability to be sincere and genuine, something impossible to wholly and truly 100% fake. If scum are being 100% absolutely purely genuine and sincere because they're telling the absolute truth, they can become more town than actual town.

(But, again, it's not like I refuse to fakeclaim as scum as a trust tell on policy of, "I'm scum therefore I will not lie about my claim", so much as I truly and sincerely believe that the

optimal play

as scum is to not lie, and that lying would be suboptimal. I COULD decide one day to make that suboptimal play, it's just that I probably never actually will because I'll always favor the optimal play because it's, well, optimal.)

(Now granted! I have, as town, claimed masons WITH scum. THAT? That I am guilty of, I will admit. It is an inherent risk in the mason gambit, and one that I am always prepared for. But Panzer didn't say I have a history of fakeclaiming masons with scum, he said I have a history of fakeclaiming masons AS scum. The former is true, the latter is not.)

I'm specifically referring to the motivation behind claiming in that way. What would town mastina gain from that?

Surprisingly a lot.

I wouldn't say I am a mason in the way I did if it didn't provide benefits the way it does, and yet time and time again, it always seems to give me benefits.

If it aint broke, no need to fix it, and since it still gives me benefits...

To note I really don't like the idea of clemency because her meta is that she only fake claims "Mason as town". It's way to easy to claim that as scum at that point.

Sure!

It'd be easy to fakeclaim mason as scum because of a track record of fakeclaiming mason as town.

But the fact of the matter is, while I could fakeclaim mason as scum and you never know, maybe for some strange random reason of all games this one just so happens to randomly be the one where I actually do it.

The simple fact is. Provably and demonstrably, can be shown by manually sifting through all of my games.

I've never, to this date, fakeclaimed mason as scum.

I could! And every game I claim mason could be that magical mystical first game where it's actually a scum fakeclaim.

But I haven't.

Basically. Any given time I say I am a mason

could

be a scumastina deciding of all games, this one just so happens to be the one where I randomly decide to buck the trend and claim mason as scum. I have had notable scumgames in the past where I destroyed previous towntells of mine by utilizing them deliberately as scum to earn some good towncredit, and any given game where I claim mason could be that scumgame where I decide to destroy the towntell.

So claiming mason is not a trust tell, because it's something that I could always claim as scum.

But to this date, in the dozens of games where I've claimed masons, between actually being a mason or mason-type role (e.g. loyal neighborizer = essentially mason) and the numerous times where I have faked being one. Every single one has been as town. (Well, one was a 3p, but 3p aren't scum, they're 3p, and that wasn't a fakeclaim because I really was converting people into being confirmed to be my own alignment. It wasn't like I was fakeclaiming mason as a serial killer, it was me claiming my real power, just as town instead of 3p.)

I'd be all too happy for people to evaluate me on merits beside the mason claim, so it's not something I've insisted I be read upon. All I've done is clarified my history with the claim. I've not once said "I've claimed mason this game, therefore, I must be town". I've pointed out that I've never fakeclaimed mason as scum, which is true, but I fully encourage being read on merits other than a mason claim. (That said, I'm never getting lynched this game because I am town and in spite of my Loved role being borderline-useless, scum will nightkill me before the end of the game, guaranteed.)

Or is there another reason you are doing it, which is particularly pro-town here?

As a matter of fact, yes. I feel there were very good reasons for me to say "Hi I am a mason ". I also feel like there's absolutely zero pro-town reason for me to explain said reasons publicly.

[mastina]

Are you even voting for Panzer for supposedly "outright lying" about you?

No, and I've already explained why:

My seiyu is Rikiya Koyama. The role is Tora from Ushio and Tora. I am neutral alignment with no win condition due to being trapped by a holy spear until I have to drawn 3 night actions on separate nights. After that I am freed from the spear I become Town w/ what I'm only willing to describe as strong powers. I'd appreciate your cooperation.

While I am pretty sure this is bullshit, I feel obliged to humor it on policy alone since I see no harm in proving it's fake down the line.

(Panzer removed due to 3p claim thus invalidating reads on him. But it should be stated I am incredibly skeptical of his claim both the original claim and also his audition power literally being mine.)

Oh forgot to include the removed-from-readslist Panzerjager, but I feel he bears further mentioning.
I immediately got the vibe that Panzer wasn't town because if he were town I'd expect there to be some sort of pressure from him on me because I said "Hi I am a mason" and the last time I said I was a mason in a game with Panzer, well...he was down my throat the entire time pretty much.

Him claiming third party gives that a reasonable explanation, but I find the third party claim to be suspect since Panzer is someone who, I seem to recall, has the mindset of murdering 3p claims on policy, by and large. I admit this is mostly to memory, thus, not reliable, but I also seem to recall Panzer plays 3p differently than this. His claimed 3p role is also hard to verify, and then on top of all that, his claimed auction power is literally my auction power so I am directly a counterclaim to his claimed ability.

All-in-all, I feel that there's a very real chance that he's scum fakeclaiming third party,

but

, I feel obligated to, at least for now, humor him, because I feel that

if

he's telling the truth, there's no harm in letting him get a wincon, and he's certainly not the best D1 lynch. He's not the

worst

D1 lynch, because he's either scum or 3p, but I feel there are better options.

(*Panzer)
Tuxedo Mask
Battle Mage
Updated readslist, decided I should list Panzer in here anyway in spite of his 3p claim to note my disbelieval of it.

And Panzer claimed his role as mastina's audition power? Huh.

That plus his sketchy claim and play by his own confession being against his normal policies is why I am incredibly suspicious of him.

I'd rather eliminate scum than a 3p that seems harmless, especially if it's 3p that can become strong town. They are a valid default/compromise, though.

^This. If Panzer isn't scum, then he's a harmless 3p. But he wouldn't be a terrible lynch due to the very real possibility that he's scum fakeclaiming 3p. So he's not the best lynch to push forward, but if push comes to shove and we need a lynch and can't get a better one, he's a fine compromise-lynch.

^This one in particular.

It should also be noted that I only have one vote. I can't vote every scumread of mine at once; I have to pick and choose where I want to vote. There are good reasons to not vote Panzer in spite of my suspicion there. So my vote is best placed elsewhere.

And why exactly would he bother lying?

Mostly irrelevant because he has stated provable falsehoods. The 'why' isn't as important as the existence of it. Asking what the motive for lying would be does nothing to remove from the provable fact that, yes, he is in fact lying. Why? I honestly don't care, I'm pretty sure Panzer got banned for quoting his role PM on two separate occasions, my opinion of his standard of play is incredibly low so I don't even think lying is scum-indicative from him.

Basically you're more or less going, "but why would he lie? He doesn't have an incentive to lie and therefore it must not be a lie", when it IS a lie no matter what. It is, provably, a falsehood that he has stated. It is something that anyone can look into and see isn't true. You're saying he wouldn't do something that he provably has done. Saying he has no reason to have done it doesn't remove the fact that he did it.

[mastina]

Deimos27
Panther and Fox
HoldenGolden/Starbuck
Mikul

popopopopopopo
TrueSoulEnergy

Sujimichi
Shiro



Battle Mage
(*Panzer)
TheThirteenthJT
Tuxedo Mask/catboi

Locktown strong town null scum.

[mastina]

Deimos27
Panther and Fox
HoldenGolden/Starbuck
Mikul

popopopopopopo

TrueSoulEnergy

Sujimichi
Shiro



Battle Mage

(*Panzer)
TheThirteenthJT
Tuxedo Mask/catboi

Locktown strong town nulltown null nullscum scum.

Small correction; BM is probably not in the same tier of scumread as the others, so I've separated him.

For the reads...
Basically, Deimos has done everything town the entire step of the game. Opening was town, continued content was town, Deimos radiates town and is just obviously town in every way shape and form. If we could give a bulletproof to someone every single day, it should go to Deimos because Deimos is the player scum most would want to get rid of. Obvtown, good analysis, just all-around high-town.

Panther and Fox immediately pocketed me with their thoughts more or less dead-on echoing my own, with solid, good analysis out of the gate. While I disagree with their read of TheThirteenthJT's content being town, I agree with most of what they say, and the fact that their reads aren't

exactly

carbon copies of my own bodes well--it shows they're not trying to intentionally pocket me by echoing my thoughts and nothing else. They have their own take, their own thoughts, unique and original to them.

Beyond that, I maintain my initial towntell on them is valid. If Panther and Fox had a scum PT to post in (and a scum PT WOULD be open in the pregame!), then they would've realized they couldn't post in it, and alert the mod to this fact before the game begun. But because they were unaware of this problem until the game begun and contacted the mod about it only after the game was already underway, it's fairly strong proof that they didn't have a scum PT to post in, and thus, they are town.

HoldenGolden was obviously town and Starbuck has only strengthened the read. Everything HoldenGolden did felt town, I could tell what he was doing and track a town mindset in it, without seeing any scum mindset for it. Starbuck's entrance into the game only solidified this by instantly replacing in, catching up on the whole game, and continuing to analyze things, prod things, poke things, etc. On that note, Starbuck saying she read the game and was contributing, as more or less a reasoning for "your justification doesn't hold", more or less going, "I did this in less than a day, what's your excuse?", all solidly point to her being town.

While Mikul's stance on me is annoying and anti-town, I don't think it comes from scum. To the contrary, I feel it very strongly comes from town. Mikul's applied pressure the whole game to multiple slots, having interacted extensively with Battle Mage and pushing him in a way I feel is incredibly fluid and organic. Beyond showing they're not scum-scum, I feel it just shows that Mikul is outright town, regardless of Battle Mage's alignment. (That said, if Battle Mage is scum, then that would be extra evidence that Mikul isn't.)

Mikul's also not tunneled exclusively on me, and is pressing elsewhere as well, with good pushes and good reasoning. Overall, Mikul is definitely one of the towniest players in this game and while I have no prior meta with Mikul, I'd be flabbergasted if Mikul was this good at scumplay.

popo might've done almost nothing before being replaced, but what little there was ringed town to me. As scum, popo could've just let me defend the slot, but instead questioned my townread of popo off of the one entry post, which I maintain was still town due to the casual nature of it. Certainly not locktown due to a lack of content, but still far more likely to be town than not.

I feel like I might have TSE too high right now, on reflection--probably is more nulltown than strong town. The reason why: I really really really liked TSE's entrance into the game, because if he truly believed Deimos was god-tiered scum and BM is easy to read as scum, then his opener makes perfect sense and I can see the town mindset from it. I also liked his pressure onto the Tuxedo Mask slot, along with a rather bold statement to be making. All of this made me think town.

Since then I've reconsidered, because his stance to defend Battle Mage is objectively wrong, detracting from Deimos is also objectively in the wrong, and his content's fairly lackluster. He's said he's busy, but since then has done nothing but active lurk more or less, and from TSE I'd expect him to be fairly active and involved, pushing reasonably hard. Yet he hasn't. With that lack of content beyond the initial burst, and with that initial burst being objectively in the wrong even if I can believe that subjectively he truly believed that, he's possibly scum here.

That having been said, someone brought up a good point and it applies to multiple slots, his and Shiro's alike: this game has been fairly slow and mostly dead, and every slot that's being lackluster cannot be scum, every active lurker cannot be scum, because we have too many of them, too many people who're not in the game. I'm still willing to buy into TSE being town that's not into the game yet, thus, nulltown is probably the best place to put him in reflection.

Sujimichi is currently null right now because in spite of Sujimichi having posted, I need more to get a read.

Shiro I've already explained.

Battle Mage is a read which isn't so much a weaker scumread now compared to before, so much as it is, the other scumreads got stronger. I still think that a lot of his content is suspect, but that having been said, I am thinking of calling him nullscum on the basis of him applying pressure to most of my other scumreads. While distancing/bussing is something he's fully capable of doing on a dime, I still feel I owe it to him that if he does actually help lynch one or two scum that he's less likely to be scum as a result.

Panzer I've already gone into.

TheThirteenthJT, more or less already went into there. While TheThirteenthJT has given some thoughts, the level of timidness from them, lack of putting their money where their mouth is, and the overall content from them, radiates newbscum. It's not impossible to be newbtown, I fully admit that, but between newbscum and newbtown, newbscum fits the profile of TheThirteenthJT's actions much better.

catboi's content has admittedly been an improvement over Tuxedo Mask's, but catboi's stances all feel fairly safe and controlled--pressuring Shiro for instance. The one exception to this would be the defense of TheThirteenthJT, a stance that does take catboi a little out of the comfort zone, but if they're scumbuddies, that defense is a necessity. (Can probably explain this stance more, but...I wanna eat breakfast.)

[mastina]

Is your failure to provide a complete response to my questions in post 422 intentional

Not exactly no. It kinda got lost, mostly because I deemed it not really relevant.

This game has a record-low number of players whose meta I am familiar with.

Intimately, the only player I'd be comfortable saying I have good meta with is Sujimichi.
Tentatively, I can add Panzer to a player whose meta I am reasonably acquainted with.
Shiro is at about the Panzer tier, a player who I am more intimately familiar with, albeit not in active memory. TSE is a

similar

read, in that I have enough games to have intimate meta with him, but slightly different in that rather than having forgotten, I just haven't put the effort to store the information I should have on the differences between his towngame and scumgame to the extent I should. I remember some bits, but not all of them.

Beyond that, HoldenGolden was at Sujimichi levels of familiarity but Starbuck is at you-levels of familiarity, someone I had a few games and interactions with back in the 2009-2011 era, but which my memories of them are mostly of reputation and games I spectated more than actual first-hand experience.

And everyone else is a stranger.

I don't often provide links to metas for players, particularly links to games I wasn't involved in, but on some occasions where I feel it is an effective demonstration I will indulge in it--Shiro being a case of this, where Shiro's iso in past games is short enough to easily at least be skimmed for a brief comparison to here, especially the first dozen or so Shiro posts (to give a reference for what Shiro is like at the beginning of a game).

So it's not something you're likely to see from me on anyone else unless by chance I felt it similarly easy to make a demonstrated point from it, an event unlikely to occur again especially with the current players.

[mastina]

I think it's much more likely there was no good reason to do it at all, beyond using it as a way to deflect suspicion because it's a town-tell per your meta.

I repeat.

Have I, so much as once, said that I am town for having claimed mason?

Have I?

...No?

Have I, in fact, to the contrary, said that any given time I claim mason could in fact be me claiming it as scum?

Why yes yes I did.

Have I also not repeatedly said that I should in fact be read on merits of my play beyond the mason claim?

So no. Not using it to deflect suspicion.

I can't see any pro-town benefit to making a fakeclaim which is obviously a fakeclaim which nobody would buy - it is completely redundant, and can't serve any pro-town purpose I can think of

Just because you can't think of a pro-town reason for claiming mason in an opening post does not mean there isn't any. I am perfectly capable of explaining the reasons and in the past (not in this game thread) have even done so. It's something that there are tangible benefits to having done, but I repeat, not ones that I see any benefit of making public. I can write them down in private to show you them in postgame, but there's zero benefit to putting them in this thread.

Plus you happen to be missing context, but that missing context is something I again feel like is not good for me to put forth at this time. (Tho if someone else put forward said context, I'd confirm it. And again, in private can record it to show that it's not me just stealing their reasons, that yes those reasons existed prior to them mentioning the context.)

I also have no idea what "I'm never getting lynched this game because I am town" is supposed to mean.

Sounds pretty self-explanatory to me. I'm never getting lynched here because I am town, and scum WILL feel the need to kill me before lylo. No doubt they won't want to, but they will need to.

[mastina]

（；¬＿¬) So you propose they will be easier to read after giving them a pass to do nothing for 2 days?

Kinda sorta, yes. The pass is not to do nothing for two days. The pass is to not lynch Shiro on D1 until I feel frustrated by Shiro--Shiro is fully capable of, if taking advantage of this leniency, earning my frustration and thus revoking the pass and thus getting voted. But SHOULD THE PASS HOLD, Shiro will be easier to read after two or so gamedays, yes.

[mastina]

I'm not sure where Mastina gets off saying everyone else is a shit player

Well for a start, I don't do this.

when she allegedly fakeclaims mason without justification in dozens of games as town

And don't do this because there is always a justification for it and usually a damn good one.

and still routinely manages to make it into a big distraction

And also was not responsible for this because as I have stated multiple times I encourage people to read me off of my actions, not me saying I am a mason, it's OTHER PEOPLE who have made it a big deal and insisted to press on the mason angle.

and/or gets evicted for it.

Mostly also false in that in all the times I've claimed mason I think only a grand total of one game ever resulted in my lynch and it wasn't because of the mason claim, it was because I hard-defended a flipped scum player (who, notably, was not who I fakeclaimed mason with). All those dozens and dozens of other times? I got nightkilled or lived to the endgame. One game where I got lynched for hard-defending a scum player who wasn't the person I claimed mason with, versus dozens upon dozens of games where I claimed mason or a mason-like role and was either nightkilled or lived to endgame.

So no. I don't get lynched for this nor will I be lynched this game.

[mastina]

This doesn't accord as a particularly innovative readslist

Doesn't make it any less accurate.

you're basically buddying all the active players aside from me

Not really, no. There are players I am 'buddying' that are far from active and there are players beside you that aren't exactly inactive--catboi for instance is fairly active and very much not someone I am 'buddying'.

I'm the only one pushing you, amirite?

I was suspicious of you well before you stated any suspicion of me. Your suspicion of me is actually OMGUS on your part, not as you try to frame it vice-versa.

And not clear from this readslist why you are even scumreading me...

Gonna kill two birds with one stone not only proving my suspicion of you predates your suspicion of me but also give said reasoning:

As long as I'm HEAL: Holden
I'm VOTE: GoldenI'm voting and healing Holden Golden just to be clear.

No heal for The Master? No townbloc for you!

I did consider healing Deimos.

HURT: Tuxedo Mask

Mutual scum distancing.
VOTE: Tuxedo Mask

Here I called the Battle Mage-Tuxedo Mask interactions mutual scum distancing. The implication being that both Battle Mage and Tuxedo Mask are scum, distancing from each other, but not committing to a hard-bus. (Which I even backed with a BM vote later.)

-The mason claim is NAI to me rn until its doubled down on. I really only see it as a joke post. I think the scummest thing posted so far by mastina is actually the readlist; mainly since the reads seem to be following who said hello (me, demos, popopop) and not actually rooted in any content.

It IS rooted in content. It was specifically saying 'hello' instead of producing content which gave me the townread because it shows that the players are fairly lax and casual with no need to feel the requirement to look town.

(Contrast with Battle Mage and Tuxedo Mask, whose posts are forced attempts to look town without actually being town.)

Here I laid out the basic reason behind the Battle Mage suspicion: posts forced.

Mikul's prodding and poking of Battle Mage felt in contrast to the interactions with Battle Mage and Tuxedo Mask.

Whereas BM-TM interactions felt like scum distancing

, Mikul's interactions with Battle Mage felt like sincere scumhunting, and Mikul's presence in regards to other slots also feels natural.

Tuxedo Mask's early content felt forced, especially in regards to Battle Mage.

And Battle Mage's content has screamed scum setting up an excellent performance pretending to be town, doing things which look town, but which aren't actually town, feeling forced, stifled, and wholly artificial, calculated and precise every step of the way with no fluidity to his thoughts, nothing natural to them. His play is clinical here in a way I feel indicates he's probably scum.

Elaborated on here.

Tuxedo Mask was the scumread we both agreed on, I heavily disliked the way he approached his question Holden. It seems quite clear that it was a reaction test, and he never posted a response to Holden's answer until he was later called out on this post. I also don't think the dayvig test Holden used on him was likely to work, as the odds of Holden actually daykilling a player so early into the game was close to zero. I found his mastina vote underwhelming as well, so I'd be interested to see how he reacts to mastina's latest posts.

The other player whose posting I found unsightly was Battle Mage's. In particular, his early aggression seems at odds with his reaction mastina's claim - namely the empty unvote. Battle Mage, if you were so willing to try and pressure us before your mastina vote, why were you unwilling to return there after the Mason claim changed your mind?

Hello my good sir. Are you in the market for pockets? Because you've definitely got me pocketed. <3

And here, I was more or less saying that I agreed with Panther and Fox's analysis of Battle Mage here.

[mastina]

The reason I asked the question is that I struggle to understand your lack of consistency, as you illustrate clearly above.

I mean you call it an inconsistency but there really isn't one?

You referenced half a dozen games with Shiro to make the point you can't read her

That wasn't the point I was making?

Yet TTJT has like 1 completed game, is one of your top suspects, and you haven't bothered to read it even though it's likely to be instructive to a question which you claim is at the forefront of your mind (is he newbtown or newbscum?).

In general, I don't read games that I wasn't involved in. I make exceptions in very specific situations: I have meta with a player from an ongoing game that I can't share due to it being ongoing so I need to delve into games I'm not involved in, is one example, but the other example is when I have extensive meta history with a player and I feel that linking to the iso of the player in question across multiple games, even games I had no involvement with, will demonstrate the point I am making.

Shiro is the latter. (I've also done this for jjh, to name a reasonably recent example of me doing the multi-game meta on a player in spite of not being involved in all of the games.)

It is one very specific situation where I will do the link-spam of meta.

Versus the general rule that I don't.

There's no inconsistency to be had in not doing something, except in very specific select circumstances, circumstances that I explain the situation behind. And which there is a long-standing backing behind--I can link to any given game of mine in the last three years, and every single game you'll see the same thing. Either I don't do link-spam meta of a player, or if I do, it's one of the two above situations; I feel like I can very easily establish a point with said links or I need to use said links because the game I really want to link to is ongoing.

As an example from this game alone. When I responded to TSE's point about you and him saying you're not a good scum player, did I track down your game history to find scumgames and find your performance in them? No, I didn't, I only linked to a first-hand-experience game, because I couldn't think of a way to easily set the precedence of you being a good scum player just from linking to multiple games, at least at the time. (Tho in hindsight NOW that I think about it, finding games you were scum in and seeing which faction won would've done that, but AT THE TIME I hadn't thought of that.)

Also, notably, I am a bit lazy as a player; I typically only put in the minimum amount of work required, not the maximum. I didn't link to every Shiro game ever, I only linked to about half of the ones on the first page of the list I found by searching what games Shiro's been in. Because the experiment was "find one scumgame in all of these links, just from the early part of the iso, the rest were town", I gave just enough games for it to be something that couldn't just be guessed by random selection. (It's easy to guess "oh the third one" with three links, much harder to guess "oh the second one" with like eight.)

Do you actually feel you did that?

As a matter of fact: yes.

I'd be fully willing to admit if I felt I hadn't made my point.

But I feel like I did.

[mastina]

Deimos27
Panther and Fox
HoldenGolden/Starbuck
Mikul

popopopopopopo

TrueSoulEnergy

Sujimichi
Shiro



Battle Mage

(*Panzer)
TheThirteenthJT
Tuxedo Mask/catboi

Locktown strong town nulltown null nullscum scum.

Small correction; BM is probably not in the same tier of scumread as the others, so I've separated him.

For the reads...
Basically, Deimos has done everything town the entire step of the game. Opening was town, continued content was town, Deimos radiates town and is just obviously town in every way shape and form. If we could give a bulletproof to someone every single day, it should go to Deimos because Deimos is the player scum most would want to get rid of. Obvtown, good analysis, just all-around high-town.

Panther and Fox immediately pocketed me with their thoughts more or less dead-on echoing my own, with solid, good analysis out of the gate. While I disagree with their read of TheThirteenthJT's content being town, I agree with most of what they say, and the fact that their reads aren't

exactly

carbon copies of my own bodes well--it shows they're not trying to intentionally pocket me by echoing my thoughts and nothing else. They have their own take, their own thoughts, unique and original to them.

Beyond that, I maintain my initial towntell on them is valid. If Panther and Fox had a scum PT to post in (and a scum PT WOULD be open in the pregame!), then they would've realized they couldn't post in it, and alert the mod to this fact before the game begun. But because they were unaware of this problem until the game begun and contacted the mod about it only after the game was already underway, it's fairly strong proof that they didn't have a scum PT to post in, and thus, they are town.

HoldenGolden was obviously town and Starbuck has only strengthened the read. Everything HoldenGolden did felt town, I could tell what he was doing and track a town mindset in it, without seeing any scum mindset for it. Starbuck's entrance into the game only solidified this by instantly replacing in, catching up on the whole game, and continuing to analyze things, prod things, poke things, etc. On that note, Starbuck saying she read the game and was contributing, as more or less a reasoning for "your justification doesn't hold", more or less going, "I did this in less than a day, what's your excuse?", all solidly point to her being town.

While Mikul's stance on me is annoying and anti-town, I don't think it comes from scum. To the contrary, I feel it very strongly comes from town. Mikul's applied pressure the whole game to multiple slots, having interacted extensively with Battle Mage and pushing him in a way I feel is incredibly fluid and organic. Beyond showing they're not scum-scum, I feel it just shows that Mikul is outright town, regardless of Battle Mage's alignment. (That said, if Battle Mage is scum, then that would be extra evidence that Mikul isn't.)

Mikul's also not tunneled exclusively on me, and is pressing elsewhere as well, with good pushes and good reasoning. Overall, Mikul is definitely one of the towniest players in this game and while I have no prior meta with Mikul, I'd be flabbergasted if Mikul was this good at scumplay.

popo might've done almost nothing before being replaced, but what little there was ringed town to me. As scum, popo could've just let me defend the slot, but instead questioned my townread of popo off of the one entry post, which I maintain was still town due to the casual nature of it. Certainly not locktown due to a lack of content, but still far more likely to be town than not.

I feel like I might have TSE too high right now, on reflection--probably is more nulltown than strong town. The reason why: I really really really liked TSE's entrance into the game, because if he truly believed Deimos was god-tiered scum and BM is easy to read as scum, then his opener makes perfect sense and I can see the town mindset from it. I also liked his pressure onto the Tuxedo Mask slot, along with a rather bold statement to be making. All of this made me think town.

Since then I've reconsidered, because his stance to defend Battle Mage is objectively wrong, detracting from Deimos is also objectively in the wrong, and his content's fairly lackluster. He's said he's busy, but since then has done nothing but active lurk more or less, and from TSE I'd expect him to be fairly active and involved, pushing reasonably hard. Yet he hasn't. With that lack of content beyond the initial burst, and with that initial burst being objectively in the wrong even if I can believe that subjectively he truly believed that, he's possibly scum here.

That having been said, someone brought up a good point and it applies to multiple slots, his and Shiro's alike: this game has been fairly slow and mostly dead, and every slot that's being lackluster cannot be scum, every active lurker cannot be scum, because we have too many of them, too many people who're not in the game. I'm still willing to buy into TSE being town that's not into the game yet, thus, nulltown is probably the best place to put him in reflection.

Sujimichi is currently null right now because in spite of Sujimichi having posted, I need more to get a read.

Shiro I've already explained.

Battle Mage is a read which isn't so much a weaker scumread now compared to before, so much as it is, the other scumreads got stronger. I still think that a lot of his content is suspect, but that having been said, I am thinking of calling him nullscum on the basis of him applying pressure to most of my other scumreads. While distancing/bussing is something he's fully capable of doing on a dime, I still feel I owe it to him that if he does actually help lynch one or two scum that he's less likely to be scum as a result.

Panzer I've already gone into.

TheThirteenthJT, more or less already went into there. While TheThirteenthJT has given some thoughts, the level of timidness from them, lack of putting their money where their mouth is, and the overall content from them, radiates newbscum. It's not impossible to be newbtown, I fully admit that, but between newbscum and newbtown, newbscum fits the profile of TheThirteenthJT's actions much better.

catboi's content has admittedly been an improvement over Tuxedo Mask's, but catboi's stances all feel fairly safe and controlled--pressuring Shiro for instance. The one exception to this would be the defense of TheThirteenthJT, a stance that does take catboi a little out of the comfort zone, but if they're scumbuddies, that defense is a necessity. (Can probably explain this stance more, but...I wanna eat breakfast.)

Quoting this for new page and importance to not get lost.
(Also, I still haven't finished breakfast rip.)

[mastina]

Battle Mage early insistence at nominating himself read ingenuine and scummy. largely a tonal read. also though the way he interacted was mikul was a lil slimey somehow, like he was trying to earn a townread

Mikul's entrance on the other hand was good! no further notes there.

HoldenGolden gets some townpoints for the entrance.

tuxedo masks early posts felt a little meh to me.

panzerjager's entrance is sufficently vague to possibly be scum just trying to feel out the waters of getting himself nominated. no strong feeling there overall tho.

panzer claim.... uhhh.... this could easily just be a scum role that wants to be targeted for some reason, tbh.

lol@tux's reaction to the fakevig. i try not to read too much into rxn tests tbh but this felt...fine? 206 on the other hand rubbed me the wrong way for some reason, even tho i kind of agree.

holden has obvtowned.

one scum in mastina/panzer lol

panther & fox has similar reads to me (:

Mate Panther and Fox isn't the only one with similar reads to you; aside from your ThirteenthJT read, your reads are all literally identical to my own.

(That said, is good to be vindicated about a townread on the popo slot. )

[mastina]

You feel completely comfortable with the way Mastina has devoted herself to protecting you, at the expense of looking at her actual scumreads?

I'm not protecting Shiro in the least. I do however feel vindicated by saying it was too soon to be pushing on Shiro.

Mastina still bothers me because her read list seems as if it's trying to give town reads to the people that are engaging in and controlling the pace of the game.

No? I had a strong townread on popo who very much was not doing this. I lack townreads on both Battle Mage and catboi, both slots that are engaging and as you put it, controlling the pace of the game.

I have reads based off of content--not off of activity.

You have done it.

Okay, where? The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. I most definitely have not said anyone is a shit player this game. The closest I've said is that I don't hold respect for Panzer's actions always being playing to win (I said my opinion of his play is incredibly low due to the things he got banned for on multiple occasions), which I have good reason to hold that stance for. Talk to people in the Stop Getting Banned thread and what they think of Panzer as a mafia player and you'll quickly find that my stance is a

generous

one to have on Panzer. (There is a very common sentiment that Panzer's griefing in mafia games should've earned him a permaban from them.)

But while I've said that I don't expect Panzer to be necessarily playing to win with all of his actions--that's not shitting on a player. I'm not calling his play when he is playing shit. I think that Panzer when he actually plays is at least an upper-mediocre player, above mediocre, albeit not top-tier. I just also think that trying to say every action of Panzer's is done in pursuit of a wincon is delusional because it is factually shown to have on multiple times been incorrect.

Shouldn't that serve as a lesson to you though?

This is literally the first game where me saying I am a mason has been a talking point--in literally none of my prior games where I did this did I have the town react this way.

If your mason claims normally have a net negative impact

With the possible exception of the games where I claimed mason with scum--and even then, those games I still got good mileage out of the gambit in terms of getting reads including being able to tell that said partner was scum so I still got something out of the claim making even these debatable--my mason claims have never had a net negative impact.

This game included. (I've already noted in a private location the benefit I got from claiming mason.)

So you're saying you're fakeclaiming mason here because historically you've never been lynched for doing so .i.e. it makes people think you are town?

I said none of the things you said in this sentence.

Well, I did say I have never been lynched for claiming mason, that's true enough.
But I did not say I was fakeclaiming mason here, I did not say my reason for saying I am a mason was to make people think I am town.

I did say I'm never getting lynched this game, which is true!

Yes, you have.

Okay, where?

Because everywhere you seem to be claiming I did is you putting words into my mouth that I didn't actually say.

I have never said I am town for claiming mason.
I have said I am town; I have said that I've never fakeclaimed mason as scum before. I've never said I'm town for claiming mason.

I'm not sure why you're making this point as if it's a revelation?

Well apparently it is one because you and one or two others seem to insist that I am hiding behind a mason claim when I've never stopped saying I should be judged on merits of my play. You're also insisting that I said I am town for the mason claim when I've never said such a thing.

So apparently, yes, it is a revelation because if it weren't one, you'd not have made those points.

However, it's also clear that there's no benefit to your mason claim

False. I already documented the reasons in private and it is two rather lengthy walls detailing them--they exist and in postgame you WILL see them. Just because you insist there isn't benefit to it doesn't mean there actually isn't any.

the suggestion that you aren't ever planning to reveal your plan is further confirmation that there isn't one and you're simply stalling for time.

I've no need to reveal my plan and no need to stall for time since as I've said. I'm not getting lynched this game. The plan was already recorded and noted and even timestamped. And before the end of the game, it will be obvious enough.

This is complete BS.

Oh? Is it? This is a game where I was in an ongoing game with Adorable so I couldn't link to the game I actually wanted to reference.
This game is notable because in it I defended jjh and notably did NOT gamedive to do it.
This is a game where there was an ongoing game with Eyes I wanted to reference but couldn't so I needed to dive into others.
And Here is the aforementioned time where I referenced jjh games I hadn't played in. Because I felt there was a very easy point to be made.

So. I've done this before, but provably and demonstrably only in very select specific circumstances, where there's any given game to show it's not done often but a few games to show that in very specific circumstances it does happen.

Still say it's bullshit?

Because I've literally got the games to prove that I'm not lying and telling the truth.

If you hadn't read or been part of those Shiro games, what was the point of referring to a bunch of games to defend an assertion, when you had no idea if it would do so or not?

Because I looked at the alignment of Shiro in those games and I read the opening few posts of Shiro every single one of those games when doing the linking. Well, skimmed. Each Shiro game I skimmed the first ~10-20 Shiro posts in iso.

There have been games where I was going to make this sort of point--and then I later backed down when the research

didn't

back my point.

I only post it if I feel the research does.

This would be testament to my original view that you were just bluffing about meta to defend Shiro

I mean I don't see what there is to bluff about nor do I particularly think I exactly qualify as defending Shiro. I stated my frame of reference for Shiro. I stated my stance to take on Shiro. I gave a link to a few games to help make this frame of reference easier to access for others to make my point for why I am taking that stance on Shiro.

[mastina]

It demonstrates your main focus is denying everything anyone says about you, rather than engaging honestly and thoughtfully.

I only deny falsehoods about me. Truths I am all to ready to fully and wholeheartedly admit. I've been nothing but honest in everything I've said, and if you think that my reads have no thought behind them, well. The evidence speaks for itself showing that's not the case.

This is demonstrably false. I first voted for you in post 18.

Your vote on me then was not out of suspicion--it was out of RVS. Or are you going to claim that 18 was a serious vote of suspicion on me before I had even posted?

My push on you from the moment I started posting was out of suspicion.
Ergo, your suspicion of me is OMGUS, not vice-versa. It is objectively true that I posted reasons for suspecting you, before you posted reasons for suspecting me. It is also objectively true that my stated reasons for suspecting you had no mention at all of 18 and were off of things wholly and entirely unrelated to that RVS vote.

You're telling me that was serious?

As a matter of fact? Yes. I stated that both you and Tuxedo Mask were scumreads, as can be shown in my readslist I posted immediately after that.

essentially you're saying that your read on me has been unchanged

Not exactly, no:

Battle Mage
nullscum

Small correction; BM is probably not in the same tier of scumread as the others, so I've separated him.

Battle Mage is a read which isn't so much a weaker scumread now compared to before, so much as it is, the other scumreads got stronger. I still think that a lot of his content is suspect, but that having been said, I am thinking of calling him nullscum on the basis of him applying pressure to most of my other scumreads. While distancing/bussing is something he's fully capable of doing on a dime, I still feel I owe it to him that if he does actually help lynch one or two scum that he's less likely to be scum as a result.

My read has demonstrably changed from the initial read, though I'm once more thinking that your repeated strawmanning of my points and tunnel on me comes from scum since you keep on repeating the same, shown false, arguments, but putting new spins on them to try and say they aren't false and are going out of your way to try and paint my actions in a negative light.

and your only justification is some nice and colourful description without anything of substance to hang off? It seems you've misunderstood/failed to read Panzer and Fox's analysis above, despite twice saying you agree with it (presumably because it allows you to buddy someone who is shading me).

I fail to see why my points aren't in line with theirs. They noted you had early aggression; my note about you was thinking your early aggression was scum trying to look town without being town.

That you were pushing things in a way that appears town, but wasn't actually coming from a pro-town mindset, wasn't really furthering a town goal, that it didn't have actual true thought behind it, that it was words for the sake of looking good, rather than words meant to actually catch and lynch scum.

They noted there was an inconsistency in your actions--my point is that the inconsistency from your actions comes from your actions being disingenuous, meant to look good, rather than actually coming from town. Their point is in line with my own.

[mastina]

Battle Mage early insistence at nominating himself read ingenuine and scummy. largely a tonal read. also though the way he interacted was mikul was a lil slimey somehow, like he was trying to earn a townread

I'd like to note that this is also in line with my point because I said pretty much that--that Battle Mage was trying to earn a townread from his posts, looking town without being town.

[mastina]

I must confess, Donkey Kong's entrance was the only thing which motivated me to finish reading through all of these wallposts. I am uncertain of his alignment so far, yet I sincerely hope that he is town.

Ditto this.

[mastina]

These votes on Shiro aren't sitting well with me (at the point that they happened). However, now looking at Shiro's ISO, it's absolutely atrocious. If we want a prime example of fluff posting, this ISO is it. I'm not sure if that's a worthwhile D1 elim or not just yet.

There are three possible worlds given these two things, of the Shiro votes being bad yet Shiro's iso being fairly lackluster. Least likely to most likely,
1: The votes you think are bad aren't, and come from town that correctly suspect Shiro is scum. (Doubtful.)
2: The votes you think are bad ARE bad, and come from scum bussing scum because the players voting Shiro are predominantly scum but so is Shiro, too. (Also somewhat doubtful, but less impossible than the above imo.)
3: The votes you think are bad ARE bad, and come from scum voting bad-town who is an easy target to vote, because nobody would really shed a tear if Shiro was lynched and flipped town and the lynch would have virtually no accountability to it. But despite how Shiro does legitimately look bad, Shiro is still town.

This is what I find most likely.

Panzer Is this typical of mastina?

Panzer is literally the worst player in this playerlist to ask about my meta. A much better one would be our new replacement, Titus. She might not be the best, but she's still fairly reliable.

[mastina]

is scum mastina rly good?

Traditionally

, the answer would be "yes". I have a reputation as being very good as scum and justifiably so for past scum performances off of what I accomplished in those games.

But in 2020? The answer is no. All of those scumgames that gave me the reputation for being good as scum? They were in previous years. In all of 2020, I've been incredibly bad in my scumgames. (I could link a few pre-2019 scumgames and a few 2020 scumgames of yours if you want to compare them and see the degradation for yourself, if you're interested.)

my base humanity obligates me to express concern at 304. i hope this was an exaggeration!

It wasn't, I did get a bad fever for one day, but it was gone by the next. (I did take extra time off to rest and recover just in case tho.) And, I really am pretty much trapped inside. My job requires the pandemic to be gone, and I have no reason to go outside and living in a forest going outside is actually dangerous unless I drive to the city which is a waste of gas and risks exposure. But, I am someone who spends the majority of my time on the internet anyway so it's not like isolation has driven me stir crazy, it's just given me more free time to spend in certain places.

Also she would of had me as a scum read no matter what I posted because she doesn't like me, which is fine tbh.

(I feel like I could write a rather lengthy wall in response to this to rebuke it, but I feel like it's self-evidently false enough for me to not bother with the effort to.)

Oi..i meant to delete the delusional part, I apologize for not doing so.

Dunno why you felt you needed to since it's the part of that post which was most accurate.

not much town motivation in self-voting at L-4, imo!!

^Pretty much, yeah. "I'm bored" feels a lot less likely of an explanation than "I'm doing some AtE to discourage this wagon from going through to a lynch". Especially since if Battle Mage

were

serious about lynching himself, there's something absent from his actions that he'd have included if he were.

Mastina also noticed and commented on this, but didn't think it was suspicious - why?

Because it wasn't identical to mine and had reasons not identical to mine so wasn't designed to echo my reads, it was self-evidently developed by Tispy by themselves. The closest thing to anything ""suspicious"" there is Tipsy not having noticed the similarity to my own reads, but that's more of an annoyance than something actually scummy, it's annoying but usually comes from town far more often than scum.

[mastina]

For the record, TheThirteenthJT's posts on page 23 don't even remotely feel like the lost-newbscum vibe I got before. There is the possibility of having been coached extensively since the prior set of posting, but the more likely explanation imo is that TheThirteenthJT's content's more likely town. That said, this isn't a total reversal of scumread to townread, because there's a lot of explanation of previous stances and some fluff, but not a lot in the way of hard stances and conclusions from the presented analysis. Overall, tho, definitely moving to nulltown here as the read which feels most right. (Will get an updated readslist for where that places him exactly.)

[mastina]

Deimos27
Panther and Fox
HoldenGolden/Starbuck
Mikul
popopopopopopo/Tipsy

TheThirteenthJT

TrueSoulEnergy/Donkey Kong
Shiro
Sujimichi/Titus



Tuxedo Mask/catboi

Battle Mage
(*Panzer)

Locktown nulltown null scumlean scum.

Tipsy moves to locktown for Tipsy's content being pretty obviously town with the slot having already looked town to me.

Just went over over TheThirteenthJT's reversal in read.

TSE I explained and DK is...well, troll alt be troll alt be contentless poster be wholly and entirely nai. I'd hope town especially with the TSE read that leaned town and with me smiling at DK's posts, but as far as content-wise goes, no way to know, obviously. It's literally a shot in the dark. If I had to take the shot, town, but it's literally just a guess.

Shiro's more or less explained already here.

Sujimichi flaked from this game so there's nothing there that was truly alignment-indicative and Titus is not in the game yet. We'll have a better grasp when seeing Titus tomorrow.

Catboi's still a process of elimination scumread--

someone

has to be scum in the game and if my locktown are all town (I think they are) and if the nulltown are town and the null aren't scum, poe says catboi's scum. Nothing catboi's done has made me think that catboi's town and I did think that Tuxedo Mask's play was scum-indicative. That said, catboi's content and contributions, I can at least

plausibly SEE

as being town. As I said, I haven't thought that catboi's content has been town, but I could at least

see

it.

Which is more than I can say about Battle Mage's actions and Panzer's play here.

It's a bit of a shame there's already a BM wagon here, but since my vote's on catboi and I don't want it to be, I'll risk this anyway:
VOTE: Battle Mage[/b]
That's somewhere close to a lynch, not sure where exactly. L-3, L-2, in that range, so take caution; we don't want to lynch Battle Mage before Titus catches up.

[mastina]

But despite how Shiro does legitimately look bad

woah rude

I mean, you do.

I'd probably vote you this game if not for past experience with you, which the players suspicious of you lack. So yes, objectively, lacking meta, you look bad. With meta, less so tho. (At least I believe so.)

[mastina]

VOTE: Battle Mage
Fixing broken vote.
Also, should be noted--I believe Titus is good at reading Shiro, yes? (Shiro/Titus, feel free to weigh in there.) If I end up trusting Titus as town, and if my memory of this is accurate (that Titus can read Shiro well), then if Titus develops a Shiro stance, I'll probably sheep it.

[mastina]

VOTE: Battle Mage
Fixing broken vote.
Also, should be noted--I believe Titus is good at reading Shiro, yes? (Shiro/Titus, feel free to weigh in there.) If I end up trusting Titus as town, and if my memory of this is accurate (that Titus can read Shiro well), then if Titus develops a Shiro stance, I'll probably sheep it.

If I counted correctly, the two votes already there + Panther/Fox + BM + Shiro + myself actually equals 6/7, so:

Battle Mage is at L-1

.
Bit closer than I thought, but not a lynch.

Battle Mage cannot self-hammer because he's already voting himself and if Panzer hammers BM then regardless of BM's alignment we lynch Panzer tomorrow, so I don't

think

we're at risk of him being lynched prematurely, butstill, something to keep in mind.

[mastina]

Also:

Mod: probably not posting tomorrow, so tomorrow's temporary V/LA.
Probably V/LA from Thursday July 23rd - Sunday due to my birthday.

So I'll probably be able to post on Wednesday and

might

be able to squeeze in posts some time over the V/LA, might, but this week, fairly busy due to birthday stuff.

[mastina]

I doubt battle mage saying lynch him is a scum claim. I think there's it's closer to the opposite(I've come pretty close to replacing out of this one a few times). I'm not willing to lynch him but I'd encourage him to think about his commitment to the game and such.

/(@ﾟﾍﾟ@) Even if the game's been frustrating, I find it hard to see such pre-emptive defeatism coming from town. A fair number of people have suspected me but I'm not asking to be killed day 1.

^This.

I don't like BM not having a counterwagon evidently. What is the case on him?

This game has been incredibly, incredibly light on content, incredibly, incredibly slow, and yet incredibly high on number of replacements. This slowness, frequency of replacements, and lack of lots of content, all contribute to a lack of a proper counterwagon.

I'd strongly recommend just reading the entire game because it is literally just that short and doable in probably less than an hour (maybe less than two if you're commenting along the way). I know, general policy of "I replaced in, therefore, not going to read the game before", but in this case, reading the game before would just give you the necessary context to understand why the wagon has developed in the way it has.

As for a case on Battle Mage, it basically comes to his content coming across as fake and somewhat manipulative, combined with POE. (

Someone

needs to be scum in this game, and the majority of the game is just town.)

That's not a strong case, sure--but this game is basically, effectively, only like...maybe five pages, five real-life days, out of the rvs in terms of content. You'd expect 30 pages' worth of content to be in the stage past the stage past the stage of RVS. To be in the late day period. It's not. This is still this game's early-day period. Earliest it can be without being rvs, early.

And if you do read the game, then I think you should agree with the above assessment--we never really left the earlygame phase that comes immediately post-rvs. We're still there, stagnated. The game hasn't progressed yet.

[mastina]

Non-game-related, but I find the way you talk about every other player like you are better than them as completely unnecessary, condescending and rude.

I did no such thing? I just stated a fact, a fact Titus will readily agree with me is a fact. Titus is not one of the best players onsite at metaing me--she's probably not even top-25%.

However, she's still better than most and as it so happens of the players in this game is the current best, because she's still certainly top-33%. Top-33% is fairly reliable, but not best.

I obviously don't think it's you, as it wouldn't make sense for you to ask me to help hunt yourself.

I believe the 'you' in here is catboi, since catboi was the only poster between DK's 301 and this post. That's certainly a bit of a hot take so I'd be interested to hear more.

In the sense one came after the other but that's not what I mean by counterwagon. I'm meaning a competing wagon. There just isn't one and that sends up red flags unless the case is immensely strong.

（´-`）.｡oO（）players voting Battle Mage: Starbuck, Tipsy, Panther and Fox, mastina, Shiro.

Not voting him: Donkey Kong, Panzer, Mikul, TheThirteenthJT, Titus, Deimos27

Of the votes on Battle Mage, the only player there that I don't trust to be town 100% is Shiro. Starbuck is town; Tipsy is town; Panther and Fox is town; I am town.

Of the votes

not

on Battle Mage, the only two I trust to be town 100% are Mikul and Deimos.

Regardless of Battle Mage's alignment, the wagon on him is at the very least town-driven.

I'm Ootsuka Akio. My main role is that I choose the audition prize each day from a list of options (which I crumbed since the beginning obviously). My audition bonus was that if I won an audition I'd get a 1-shot disabler against a player on the scumteam (if I guess correctly) which means they couldn't NK or use any other abilities.

While I struggle to see this as an entire fabrication, I feel like instead of being a scum fakeclaim or a town realclaim this is most likely a scum realclaim, or, well, mostly realclaim.

He's not sharing any of the information about the role, like what the options were or why he allegedly picked the prize we got, and I find the auction bonus is probably just a real 1x disabler, but not exclusive to scum.

[mastina]

if ur executed do the audition prizes go away?

yes obviously

And this is just bullshit because if a crucial critical town mechanic were tied to a singular town role and disappeared without that town role being present...well, one, that's bad design because that crucial mechanic is likely to be gone before D2, and two, it's something that the mod should announce.

Far more likely is this is a bluff.

He reminds me of when I started.

Battle Mage isn't just starting, isn't you just starting. Battle Mage was playing mafia before you started playing mafia. There was a time when he was one of the most prolific names onsite and basically a sort of on-site rockstar of sorts, a mafiascum household name of sorts.

Humility would go a long way but BM is being very self-righteous. That being said, I think BM is town who thinks he's got the game solved.

And that self-righteousness comes across as being very fake. I've seen some of the most self-righteous players onsite and am myself one of them. I feel like I can judge self-righteousness as being real versus being fake, and Battle Mage's self-righteousness oozes fakeness. There's no sincerity in it, no genuineness behind it, it all feels forced and faked, with no true belief behind it. It's empty and emotionless.

[mastina]

Now to a second point on this, couldn't you metaing Shiro be because you did your research on your scum partner? Have you ever done this before?

Meta'd a scum partner? Nope! Scumbuddies are the very last people I would ever feel the need to meta (why would I meta someone who I already know the alignment of? Meta as scum is for those that I don't know so I can establish their threat level). I've meta'd someone when I was scum and they were town, but never meta'd someone when they were my scumbuddy.

I've overheard a lot of people talking about this person called mastina, she gives out rad lectures and seminars here? Well, I've heard a little bit of what she has to say myself, and honestly, it's pretty damn clear to me that she has a deep passion and love for this cult. There's like now way that she could be this super secret infliltrating mafia.

Well from this I'm pretty sure that DK's either a meme alt of someone who knows me fairly well or just scum since I don't see some random scummer with little familiarity with me thinking I'm town here enough to point it out so strongly, so. Either someone who knows me well, or scum.

I lean the former (meme alts be memeing), but the latter isn't out of the question. Sadly, only way to confirm would be if DK alt-slipped because the troll alt's heavy roleplay means it's virtually impossible to get a positive ID on anything that'd narrow the pool down on who they could be.

I don't mind killing any 3p claims if serious.

Panzer's 3p claim was quite serious and yes it is indeed rather dubious and I don't believe it. The main reason I've not voted him is more or less policy in not wanting to vote out non-malevolent 3ps since if genuine it'd fucking suck to get eliminated D1 with no chance at fulfilling your wincon and if an actual 3p wouldn't be a lynch on scum,

but

, as has been established: that's purely policy because I don't believe his claim in the least.

[mastina]

Panzer seems familiar with you, whether or not you two don't like each other, and it's important to have different POVs to consider.

Panzer has been proven to be lying about my meta, as is easily verified by multiple players here now who can vouch for what I said but not what Panzer said. (MariaR, Titus, and Shiro can all confirm that I've not fakeclaimed mason as scum, whereas Panzer insists that I do and have.)

One, no one is trying to save him.

panzer?

This. Panzer, the dubious probably-scum-fakeclaiming-3p, is defending Battle Mage. Battle Mage himself hasn't noted this in spite of him having noted your defense of his slot and commenting on it, yet he's not commented on Panzer at all. (Well, he did defend Panzer from me, I suppose, but he didn't note Panzer's defense of him.)

If you iso the two of them, they really stand out as being incredibly likely to be scumbuddies. Lack of meaningful interaction with each other, defending each other, but in a soft-defense way rather than more hard defense.

when I think of Mastinas slot all I see is the mason claim and it's blinding me from the rest of their play.

Yeah, the distraction isn't helpful.

And who are the players who keep on making a big deal about the mason claim? It aint me, I can tell you that; it's primarily two players. (Hint: both are people I've said are probably scum and have scumbuddy interactions between the two.)

BM, it wasn't far to catch up. #worryface

True. This game's not exactly a hard-read, dense on content over dozens upon dozens of pages. It's got only 30, with content being, while not exactly minimal, fairly compact for the game's size.

Although it's interesting that BM is being voted by so many of my tr's (I like Starbuck, Panther&Fox, mastina here) while catboi has two slots that are more question marks (DK, Panzer). Makes me a bit more hesitant.

This is a very good point and one which I agree with. While I do have my suspicions on catboi, the wagon on catboi is far from encouraging.

[mastina]

Case and point for questionable catboi content:

(＾ω＾) Town Reads

(-snipped for brevity-)

I actually don't take issue with any of those as townreads, buuuuuut...

┐(ﾟ⊇ﾟ)┌ Null Reads

panzerjager - His pushes mostly feel like things he believes in, and the statement "I promise you if I grab a protection tonight, you'll know." in 576 feels...believable?. Also sounds somewhat apathetic which would fit with not having a win condition.
tipsy - Reads since arriving look mostly fine but unremarkable, hasn't said anything obviously townish. I agreed with the assessment of Battle Mage's early play in 475's reads but beyond that nothing clicks super hard.
mastina - I just don't really want to deal with thinking about her posts, a lot of the reasoning is way out there and I do not believe the mason claim whatsoever especially given deimos not being very towny.

(☞◣д◢)☞ Scum Reads

donkey kong - I don't actually know, just kill it because it's awful
deimos27
titus - Sujimichi was a nothing slot and Titus has shown up and dragged feet against the battle mage wagon but hasn't really taken initiative to propose an alternative.
battle mage - I just don't buy him acting the way he did with his claim.

The only read here which doesn't look like a bullshit read is Battle Mage. The entirety of the null reads and the reasons for them, and the scumreads and the reasons for them, just feel very fake.

I played a game with battlemage fairly recently actually he played incredibly aggro in what was almost a selfish manner to some degree?
I am trying to catch up on the game which I'll probably give up doing by page 10 and it seems he really wanted to control the power of whatever the heal mechanic was, which feels in character for him.

I haven't reached the part where he started stretch on his reads and maybe I could start to see eye to eye with you then, but I am not so sure I'd vote him outside the fact I just like the people on the wagon.

(For the record, beeboy in one post singlehandedly brings the slot back to no longer north of null.)

[mastina]

I don't particularly find anything she is doing town.

Then iso me and look for yourself and if you still say that after the iso either you're delusional or you're lying.

[mastina]

But I find mastina's posting to indicate she is very much ok with that.

The most likely lynches today are Battle Mage, catboi, and Panzer.

Those three happen to be at the bottom of my readslist.

So yes.

I am okay with the gamestate.

Try to wagon someone up to a lynch that I am strongly townreading? Then you'll see me be very much not okay with it, but if the options for the lynch today are scumread #1, scumread #2, or scumread #3, no fucking shit I'm okay with that?

[mastina]

Go on explain to me how that makes me delusional.

Because unlike the majority of other players in this game, you've played with me rather extensively before.

You know I've seen you claim mason literally every time you roll neighbor. To the point in which it's just standard play for you and not alignment indicative.

And what alignments were I in those games? Was there so much as a single instance of it being done as scum?

More than that I've plenty of content that isn't "hi I am a mason". I'm not town just because I went "hi I am a mason", I'm town for all of the content I've done. I can understand it not being visible on one or two pages' worth of my posting (tho it should be apparent even then).

But saying that I've done nothing town after isoing me is exactly what I said. Either delusional or lying. From someone who knows me, those are literally the only two options from having isoed me. There can be no other option.

Or is it your totally stagnant reads that haven't changed all game?

This is proof that you haven't iso'd me considering that my reads

have

changed and evolved, rather notably so, and since you claimed to have iso'd me, proof that the answer is 'lying', not delusion. Because it's pretty damn obvious that, yes, my reads have fucking changed and the progression behind them is right there in my iso. Plus, even had they not, a lack of read change isn't a scumtell for me. (I almost said "has never been a scumtell for me", because it hasn't been a scumtell for me for at least three years, but I stopped myself from saying that since there might've been a brief period in time where it was one. It hasn't been one for a very very very long time tho at the very least, to the point where I can

almost

say "has never been a scumtell for me".)

If you think the game needs to be read and have fresh takes on it.

We already have fresh takes on it without the game being read. I'm arguing that those takes would be far less fresh if the people making them

did

read the game, because reading the game would make them understand why the existing takes are there as they are.

How we got to this gamestate is not apparent for people who replace in with no context. How we got to this gamestate is readily apparent for people who read the game and can see the context post by post.

Mastina you know full well the Mason claim and content volume aren't viable tools to read you.

Oh? Aren't they?
Let's do a quick thought experiment, shall we?
One game
Second game
Third game
Fourth game
Fifth game
Sixth game
Seventh game
Eighth game
Ninth game
Tenth game
Eleventh game
Twelvth game
Thirteenth game
Fourteenth game
Fifteenth game
Sixteenth game
Seventeenth game
Eighteenth game
Nineteenth game
Twentieth game
Twenty-first game
Twenty-second game
Twenty-third game
Twenty-fourth game
Twenty-fifth game.

In those 25 games above, how many are scumgames?

Spoiler: Here's the answer:

Four.

Which of those games are the scumgames? Can you name them, e.g. "Games 4, 8, 12, 16, 22"? Spend like 20-60 seconds skimming each game, starting from the top. Which games are the scumgames?

The scumgames stick out like a sore thumb compared to the towngames because every single one of the towngames, literally every single one of them, had content and volumes' worth of it; literally every single scumgame had an absent thereof. There was another marked difference. When I was busy and V/LA and basically unavailable, in the towngames I still fought to produce content in spite of this limitation on me. In the scumgames I coasted by and did nothing.

So yes.

Content of volume absolutely

can

be used to read me, and has been a viable tell for the last two years.

As for the mason claim, free tip--every one of those games above where I said anything about me being a mason?
I was town in that game, so those aren't among the scumgames, narrowing down which of the games are the scumgames for you.

You can be stagnant and not readjust as long as you are right, but it doesn't make sense to make that post towards Titus if you feel that way

And what gives you the impression that me telling Titus, "read the game and you'll see why BM is being wagoned" is me saying that I

don't

feel right about my battle mage scumread? Do tell because I think it perfectly fucking evident that that was me telling Titus that I think her BM defense is erroneous and that I am in the right.

I just don't get it why you think this game is devoid / lack luster.

Because it is?

The game being stagnant does not equal reads being wrong, one can and will exist separately of the other. You can have non-stagnant games where reads are wrong and you can have stagnant games where reads are right. Stagnancy does not imply wrongness of reads, stagnancy means stagnancy. The two are wholly and entirely unrelated concepts. Just because a game has stalled does not mean the game is on the wrong track. In fact, quite often, it's actually the opposite. If anything, a game stalling is indicative that the town is on the right track, but being on the right track, they don't know what to do to progress the game further.

While also showing no signs of paranoia about your reads or a desire to try and readjust.

This is present in my iso.

I feel like you wouldn't think the game hasn't progressed if you are perfectly fine with your POE.

Well tough because I do and your thought is wrong--like I said, either delusion or lying. Because yes I am perfectly fine with my POE in spite of not thinking the game has progressed. A game can be solved on the first few pages without the game having progressed. The lack of progression wouldn't magically mean that solve is incorrect just due to lack of progression.

[mastina]

I don't see why a mod would announce that mastina is lovers in the way that they did WITH mastina not having the loved modifier active.

Because the modifier is active right now due to me being at less than L-2/L-1. Presumably, were I ever to get that high, the mod would announce I am no longer Loved.

But good luck ever getting a wagon on me that high considering that I AM town, I will not be lynched this game and the scum WILL be forced to nightkill me at some point due to this status because yes I am conftown.

I wouldn't mind if they just said it's a meme but them specifically saying they never do that as scum is LAMIST and I don't like that.

It is a meme, it just so happens to be a meme that I've never used as scum.

Could I use it as scum? Sure could!

Have I used it as scum?

Provably and demonstrably, no I have not.

Could this game be the first where I used the meme as scum? Sure could!

It's just that it isn't because I AM town here and confirmably so.

272 - Mastina jumping onto the larger wagon, scummy.
275 - Another pointless readlist from mastina, we don't need it updated every second of the day thanks. But again those who are semi-pushing them is in the scum-reads and all the low-posters are town-read as if to pocket them all which is concerning.
441 - Again an OMGUS readlist from mastina. Watch me drop into the SR's for them now ex dee.

You should try thinking logically through this because point A to points B/C don't connect when you think about it.

Hey, purple haired person, I have found something cool! Or at least overheard soemthings. I've learnt may way around here and I've been eavesdropping... but don't tell anyone!

Anyways, I heard about some of the antics that donkey sheriff pulled earlier. He sounds pretty astute and someone I'd love to meet, I don't think someone like that is the infloltrating mafia you're looking for.

On the other hand, I heard about that masked man, you know, the one wearing that exquisite Tuxedo, and it's pretty damn clear to me that he was playing dumb when he was being interrogated by the old sheriff.

For the record, I actually

do

have a townread on DK now. I can't tell who DK's reaching out to here because I can't identify who's the purple-haired person (we have pink-hair and blue-hair and brown-hair but I can't see any purple-haired avatars), but this is still very clearly intended

as

a reach-out to them, while also giving reads (in this case, that the HoldenGolden slot--now Starbuck--is town, and that the Tuxedo slot, now catboi, is scum).

Overall I do feel like that effort is more likely to come from a town slot, since the entire approach feels town-motivated.

[mastina]

VOTE: Deimos27
Gut

Your gut is very very wrong; Deimos is town. Sadly, busy, unfortunately so. Deimos's V/LA is unfortunate and I have a bad feeling Deimos might end up being replacement #10 due to said V/LA and lack of ability to be here more readily. But I assure you, Deimos is very much town in spite of the V/LA and were that V/LA absent this would become far more readily apparent.

That being said--the Battle Mage replacement does make me want to do this:
VOTE: Panzerjager
At least for now. I'll be doing another readslist in part for my own benefit to break down the slots in the game and my thoughts on them, to air things out.

[mastina]

I don't want to seem dismissive but your post in itself also is so I don't particularly feel bad.

My post is showing how you are factually wrong, so yes, your dismissal of it is bad because it's demonstrating that I am right.

I have given my proof--where's yours? You're not giving it because the facts don't line up with your argument; they line up with mine because I am in the right here.

[mastina]

But that wasn't my point, my point was that your post towards Titus doesn't make sense coming from someone with stagnant reads.

And I countered that point by showing why it's not so.

[mastina]

Deimos27
Panther and Fox/MariaR
HoldenGolden/Starbuck
Mikul/JacksonVirgo
popopopopopopo/Tipsy

TrueSoulEnergy/Donkey Kong


Battle Mage/jks
Shiro
Sujimichi/Titus

Tuxedo Mask/catboi

TheThirteenthJT/beeboy

Panzer

This is quickly shaping up to be a game where everyone has a reason to be town (well, almost everyone), but three people by necessity must not be.

Deimos is locktown here for good reason. While Deimos's later contributions to the game may be lackluster, this is easily explained by the fact that Deimos is V/LA currently and is struggling to keep up with the game now. If you look at Deimos's earlier content, it is self-evident that when Deimos isn't busy, when Deimos isn't V/LA, he's plain and simply, town. Period.


I maintain my case for Panther and Fox, via accidental mod circumstances, being accidentally conftown, because again: Panther and Fox were having trouble posting when the game went live. They had confirmed, but were unable to post in the game thread. The mod was made aware of this only after D1 had started. The mod being made aware of this only after D1 started indicates that Panther and Fox were unaware there'd be an issue posting prior to D1 starting. The presence of the issue therefore indicates that Panther and Fox would have no prior warning of this.

This is an unintentional accidental townconfirm because if Panther and Fox were scum, they would have access to a scum PT. PTs in this game were open during the pregame, before D1 started. Because PTs were open during the pregame, before D1 started, if Panther and Fox were scum, and they had trouble posting, they would've been unable to post to the scum PT. And thus they would've told the mod about this, and the mod would've announced it sooner. But because of the timing of the mod announcement, Panther and Fox were, accidentally mod-spewed as conftown.

Even lacking this--and I feel like it should not be discarded--their content this game was clearly town and MariaR just radiates obvtown here.


HoldenGolden was clearly town with everything he did and nothing Starbuck has done since then has diminished that, to the contrary strengthening that townread.


Mikul I maintain was approaching things from a town angle and I disagree with jks's analysis stating that Mikul wasn't contributing, the thoughts were there and the contribution present and more than that I find the replacement (while annoying) to still be insanely town with their thought progression.


popo was a strong town gutvibe even from so little content and Tipsy has certainly vindicated that by just being insanely town overall.


So those are my locktowns--my locktowns will not be budging at all because they are locked in at town because they are town, period, pure and simple, town.

From there, we go into what in the OPL league of legends professional play likes to call "The Mess".


TSE I leaned town on slightly, but it was not much of a townread. DK by and large being a meme alt memeing makes for a difficult read, but there

is

content there. Notably, DK has stated a townread on me, the Holden slot (Starbuck), and a scumread on the Tuxedo slot (catboi), and has been interacting with people and reaching out to them in a way that I feel is town-indicative, but due to them being an alt that is memeing, it's hard to get a lock on if this is town-indicative for sure or not. So I lean town there, but I'm not gonna locktown the slot from it.


You might notice that jks has skyrocketed in the readslist from near-dead-bottom to way up high, which I feel is justified. I do not think anything Battle Mage did was town at all. Battle Mage's content felt faked and forced. I made my case on Battle Mage fairly clearly here and I maintain its validity, that most of the defense of his slot is along the lines of, "This reminds me of something I did when new", "This is something Battle Mage always does", and blind VCA not taking into account the gamestate which led to that votecount when this game is unusual and unusualness usually breeds inaccuracies in blind VCA because VCA relies on typical patterns and this game is atypical.

So why the skyrocket upward?

Because contrary to what has been said about my stances, yes I do in fact have reasonable doubts to be presented. I haven't played with Battle Mage in years, and even when I last saw him I wasn't intimately familiar with him. The people who said "This is how Battle Mage always is" had recently played with him; I have not. They very well are probably more informed about his habits than I am. And while I maintain that my point about him being a competent scum player remains (thus, don't buy defending him on the basis of "BM isn't good at scum"), my points about his content being forced and fake are based off of traits that I fully admit

could

in fact be personality traits that don't condemn him.

I thought that they still indicated he was scum in spite of that because of what he was doing, but yes. jks's contributions were enough for me to singlehandedly call that into question and more or less not entirely reverse but mostly reverse that read. jks reached out to me, the largest attacker of their slot. jks gave good reads with good analysis and while I don't agree with them, their thoughts and views actually look sincere to me. Could it come from scum? Yes, but it looks like it comes from town.

Overall, this places the slot at nulltown (contrast with DK who is a townread proper even if a weaker one), the null slot most likely to be town.


I feel like my thoughts on Shiro are well-documented enough, but to briefly reiterate; I do like what Shiro's done this game in spite of me not exactly knowing how to read Shiro anymore. Overall, in the null slots, the slot is the representation of dead null.


Sujimichi did nothing town-indicative and believe it or not, I haven't gotten any true townvibes from Titus. I'm giving her some benefit of the doubt, here, and notably--I've been treating her as if she's town anyway in spite of not having a townread on her. Her reachouts to some players are something that objectively should indicate she's more likely to be town,

but

, something gut-wise is holding me back from townbinning her. In my gut, I haven't felt like anything she's done is actually town-indicative. I recognize that there are things that objectively should make her more likely town, namely the reachouts, but subjectively I don't feel she's done anything town.

It should be noted though that in spite of that gut feeling that she hasn't done anything town, I also don't get any vibes, objectively or subjectively, that anything she's done indicates she's scum. While of the null slots I feel that if any of them were scum she'd be the most likely, in spite of that view, I notably do NOT scumread her, at all. If my 3p lylo lynch choices were Shiro jks Titus right now I'd vote Titus, but that's literally the only situation where I would, and I feel giving more time will help me air out thoughts on the slot there more.


catboi's contributions have been far more reasonable than their predecessor, in line with how jks is an improvement in content over Battle Mage. I've liked a lot of the thoughts that have come from catboi, but in spite of liking them, none of them have made me actually think catboi is town. I think I've made it clear, catboi's contributions have made me doubt the scumread on the slot (contrary to beeboy's narrative, yes, there is proof that I have in fact doubted that read), but this doubt has never been "I think this slot might actually be town for this", so much as it is, "I'm having second thoughts about a scumread here".

I do feel that Tuxedo Masks's content here was more likely to come from scum than town and catboi's content, while looking good, hasn't actually felt truly town. There's enough to doubt a scumread on the slot, but there's nothing to make me think the slot is town, if that makes sense. So overall, the slot's loosely, "lean scum".


The Thirteenth JT's been a rollercoaster of a slot. I initially thought newbscum. Then with later thoughts, I thought they showed genuine thought process. But just before the replace-out, I was again beginning to doubt this reversal into a townread. Since then, with beeboy's replacement into the game, nothing beeboy's done has looked or felt town to me and the continued misrep of my stances and attempted strawmanning of them is suspect. That said, is this a lockscum read? No, not even remotely. It's a weak-scumread.


The only strong scumread I have is Panzer, because I don't believe the 3p claim, he literally claimed my auction power as my own, and all of his contributions to the game have felt slimey. His actions just feel like they're scum coasting by and cruising, taking advantage of the fairly stagnant gamestate to just cruise by.


I also realize that I no longer truly have a coherent scumteam. Battle Mage and Panzer felt like scumbuddies with scum-scum interactions, but if Battle Mage's slot is town as jks made me think, then that falls apart. catboi and Panzer don't exactly fit as a scumteam together, either. So this is far from a locked-down easy callout of a three-man scumteam.

I'm positive that my locktown are actually lockdown. I refuse to reevaluate any of the reads on those slots because I am absolutely convinced that they are town and nothing will shake that conviction.

But beyond that, my thoughts are more or less, "any of these slots could be scum", with all of them having reason to be town but three of them necessarily being scum. My reads are very much individual reads right now rather than scumteam composition reads, and I feel like the best way to get clarity there would be to get a few flips.

[mastina]

I don't believe a reasonable town player can sit in a game for 2 weeks being unhappy with the game state.

Sure but I never was unhappy with the gamestate and said as much.

I have said the gamestate was stagnant.

Did I ever once say that I was unhappy with it in spite of the stagnation?

No. I said that the game being stagnant was a contributing factor to the wagons. I never once said that the stagnation meant the town was in a bad spot. That's something you're saying I said but I never said it.

Then the game isn't shit.

It sure isn't! And I never said it was.

-> People who are totally happy with their read lists the literal entire game don't sit around complaining a game is devoid of content.

Except I never complained about the game being devoid in content.

I stated it was.

I did not complain about it.

I made a statement that I feel is true.

I never once said that the statement was about a thing I was unhappy about.

I am perfectly content with a stagnant game if the stagnation of the game is something I feel does not benefit the scum--and I felt it did not benefit the scum.

Now granted.

The jks replacement does throw my reads into a state of slight disarray. If Battle Mage is scum, then the game makes perfect sense and the town is in a good place, the scumteam would be Panzer BM and then probably either your slot or Titus as the third, because of Titus's BM defense, Panzer's BM defense, and your chainsaw defense of BM by attacking his main attacker (me). So in a BM-scum world, I would still be content with the game as-is.

But since I'm currently heavily in doubt of BM having been scum and even lean towards him not being scum due to jks singlehandedly throwing my assumption into doubt, that necessarily means that if BM is town as I'm beginning to suspect, that I by necessity can't be happy with that gamestate.

So as of

now

, as of

today

, I need the game to progress because if BM is town then the game needs to progress for me to find the actual scumteam.

But as of yesterday, I did not need the game to progress because if BM is scum then the scumteam was obvious to a certain extent, limited to being within a specific set of more or less four players. (BM-scum makes Shiro-scum and to a lesser extent, catboi-scum less likely due to both BM and Panzer applying pressure to catboi.)

tl;dr: with BM as scum, this game was on lock with an obvious solve that only had a few unknown variables. Stagnant game's no problem.
With BM not as scum (which I'm now thinking), the game is in a state of disarray with no clear answer, and a stagnant game IS a problem because the game needs to progress to find a new solve.

[mastina]

Busy today but noticed the Deimos wagon.
Don't.
Deimos and I are legit tied together in a mason-like way.

Deimos's role literally confirms me as town and yes we are neighbors together. Deimos's role is literally to confirm me as town and that role is not one that I think is scum.
I can elaborate when not busy but Deimos's role in effect was somewhere between a 1x cop and informed townie in utility, and yes I do in fact know Deimos is not keeping up with this game because our neighborhood isn't active; if Deimos were actually able to keep up with the game as Titus claims he can, then he'd be talking in there because he was more active earlier.

I'm claiming for him because I legit think he's not around, will be replaced, but is at risk of being lynched before he can be replaced.

But, Deimos did legitimately confirm me as being town. Not as a gambit. As his actual role. Role-confirmed me as town.

[mastina]

Busy today but noticed the Deimos wagon.
Don't.
Deimos and I are legit tied together in a mason-like way.

Deimos's role literally confirms me as town and yes we are neighbors together. Deimos's role is literally to confirm me as town and that role is not one that I think is scum.
I can elaborate when not busy but Deimos's role in effect was somewhere between a 1x cop and informed townie in utility, and yes I do in fact know Deimos is not keeping up with this game because our neighborhood isn't active; if Deimos were actually able to keep up with the game as Titus claims he can, then he'd be talking in there because he was more active earlier.

I'm claiming for him because I legit think he's not around, will be replaced, but is at risk of being lynched before he can be replaced.

But, Deimos did legitimately confirm me as being town. Not as a gambit. As his actual role. Role-confirmed me as town.

Okay am here now, I'll be responding to other stuff in a bit but to get to this issue, I considered just outright claiming actually legitimately seriously Masons due to the nature of our roles but I wasn't sure people would actually buy it so decided that the truth would be a better answer.

So to fully fullclaim everything.
I am NUMAKURA MANAMI, my ANIMEOGRAPHY (list of powers) is divided up into two roles: Paula McCoy (White Fang) Nisekoi, which is my neighborhood power, a passive allowing conversations with other members of the beehive (our PT, which is The Beehive Gang), and Kurahashi Riko Love Lab, which is my Loved status, where it is what I paraphrased earlier; a day passive where when I am NOT currently at two or less votes away from the original lynch requirement, I am Loved and when I am at two or less votes away from the original Lynch requirement, I DO NOT have the Loved ability.

My audition bonus grants the day passive, "When I am currently at two or less votes away from the original Lynch requirement, Loved."

In the beehive, Tatsuya opens with "Chitoge wins the harem." and apologizes for spoiling the show. Deimos did not know I was town from the onset, because Deimos's knowledge of me comes from their auction power bonus. To skip to the relevant section, to paraphrase what Deimos told me: Deimos has a 1x power that would be INSANELY broken as a scum power since it has no lylo disablement to it meaning that if Deimos were scum with it and lived to lylo scum would auto-win. I'd prefer to not share what that 1x power is unless absolutely necessary.

Deimos's investigation on me came in the form of their auction power: It was to receive the full list of members of our PT, their favourite seiyuus, and their alignments. I returned as Numakura Manami, On-Site fan. (The only other member was Deimos.) So Deimos explicitly got an investigative result on me that says I am town, and Deimos has two abilities that I am convinced don't come from scum, beyond his contributions in the PT being strongly town-indicative as well. (Deimos was NOT on-board with my treating him as conftown until he actually had the proof I was town. Prior to that he was suspicious as hell of my content and approach.)

[mastina]

I am trying to decide if you re-evaling BM is in response to me saying his town flip literally bury's you and you realizing that. Or if it's the re-eval on your bottom 3 I've been waiting the literal entire game for because you realized you should be more careful.

It's neither, it was not because of me thinking I need to be careful and not because of being worried about the slot being town out of paranoia--it was out of seeing jks's content and thinking it to be actually town in nature.

But I also want you to know my main point hasn't actually evolved or changed throughout the course of this 1v1.

And I immediately answered it with evidence showing why it was wrong. I didn't just say as you seem to insist, "well you're wrong". (I did SAY "well you're wrong". But I also later after having said that, went into the REASONS you were wrong.) I showed WHY you were wrong, and yet you ignored that I had.

But I also think it's kinda crazy to say I am delusional for thinking you are scum especially relative to what you are posting?

Delusional or lying because anyone claiming to know me would know I'm fucking town this game, yes. Thus if you claim to know me at all, and with your experience you damn well should, those are the only options to think I'm not. Delusion or lying. There's no realm in which anyone who knows me thinks that this is a scumastina game.

Yeah we're disagreeing here. I haven't read the early game but this is just handwaiving of Deimos's recent play as real life issues alone. Anyone can start out strong then faulter. Talk to me here.

I have a much much better perspective on this issue due to actually being in the neighborhood with Deimos. In the early-game, Deimos's activity in-thread was matched equally by Deimos's activity in our PT. This activity remained up until Deimos's declared V/LA at which point it plummeted to absolute zero. Absolute zero in the PT, basically absolute zero in the game thread, a declared V/LA, being forced to post due to a prod while still on V/LA, struggling to catch up, then vanishing into once AGAIN being prodded (Tatsuya didn't outright say Deimos was prodded a second time but if you look at the fact that Deimos hasn't posted in 48 hours here it's obvious that Deimos was one of the prodded individuals), is pretty damn conclusive proof that Deimos's decline in activity, petering out as you call it, wasn't due to an alignment and is entirely due to real life.

[mastina]

beeboy comes off looking good in his exchange with mastina, I'd be comfortable calling him town now

Disagree.

Seiyuu is

Ishizuka Unshou

, character is

ookido yukinari

from pokémon (Professor Oak to you

gaijin

). My power is just a one-shot, at night I can choose a player and pick from 1 of the 3 starter pokemon (bulbasaur/charmander/squirtle). This activates 1 of 3 effects: a doc save, a retaliation kill on anyone who tries to kill the target that night (but the target still dies), or the player counts as an audition doublevoter on the next day while also having a free extra vote for them.

For the record, highly likely to be a trueclaim regardless of alignment but a claim that is in of itself NAI in that it's not a role that is inherently town.

That said, do I think it is town?

I actually lean towards yes, yes.

I think mastina, Starbuck, Deimos27, MariaR are probably town. I think Tipsy is more likely town than scum but I don't really have strong feelings here. Same with Donkey Kong actually - reading between the lines of his posts, he actually is trying to progress the game albeit in a memey way, but there's nothing that strikes me as solidly town in his posting.

As has been mentioned, the only read absent from this list that I hold myself is the Mikul read so yes, do agree with the above and will strongly fight against wagons on any of them.

I don't really have strong feelings about most of the rest of the game. Titus and Shiro haven't really done anything I'd consider really alignment-indicative so far and they're probably the worst lynches information-wise. I think beeboy might be scum but there doesn't seem to be a lot of support there at the moment? (Not really sure on this, it's hard to gauge how most people are feeling about this slot at the moment.)

Honestly I think the only two votes I want today are either Panzer or beeboy. (I do hold some Titus suspicion but even if Titus is scum I very much don't want to lynch her D1.)

I actually think beeboy is more likely scum than town and Panzer is either 3p or scum and I think scum.

In spite of leaning town on the claim, push come to shove, I would vote catboi if necessary to secure a lynch/prevent a townread from being lynched, but it'd explicitly be as a compromise and I wouldn't be happy about it.

[mastina]

Mastina, why did you say this Now as opposed to when I asked you pages ago?

You didn't? There's no mention of the mason claim beyond 'oh mastina did that again', not a question from you; there's no mention of Deimos until later and you didn't ask me if my reason for defending him was role-related, you countered that Deimos 'seemed to be keeping up just fine', which is factually wrong as shown by both the neighborhood PT and by the mod and by activity overview and by Deimos saying the only reason he was posting was that he was prodded while V/LA and that he was busy.

Why should I believe you when you fake masons all the time?

Well aside from me never having fakeclaimed masons as scum, there's also the fact that I can't make this shit up.

Why should I townread Deimos based on their play?

Because your reason for scumreading Deimos is based on something that is factually not true, an assumption that Deimos is keeping up just fine and in spite of keeping up just fine has lackluster content, when the actual truth is that Deimos

isn't

keeping up just fine and the lackluster content is a direct result from this, from Deimos being V/LA and maybe even siteflaking.

And that Deimos's play up until the V/LA was literally the towniest content in the game, both inside the game and outside in the PT. I said it in my initial readslist and every readslist since then; the everything Deimos has done is town. And beyond that, even if none of Deimos's play were town (which it is), Deimos's role is one that there's just about a near-zero chance of being scum due to it being a role that could give the scum a free win due to how strong it is even as a 1x role. (Plus, the auction power claimed makes no sense as a scum power but makes perfect sense as a town power and fits with my game-long theory that my real power isn't the Loved, it's the neighborhood, with us as, yes, in design, intended to actually legitimately be akin to masons.)

[mastina]

You can't link 25 mason fake claim games and think even as town I should care about this lol.

Well this shows you didn't click any of those links or even read the post because it wasn't 25 mason fakeclaims and I said as much in the post where I gave the links. I literally said in that post it wasn't 25 mason fakeclaims. Heck in the majority of the games that had the mason claims, I actually had a mason-like power or a damn good reason to fake one. (I.e. in the Normal game, as a Disloyal Messenger, setting it up as a gamewide gambit to catch scum since if scum got my message and corroborated my claim in-thread, they'd be caught, which did pay dividends since on the last gameday the last scum DID get caught by my role and was outed scum from it. So I had a damn good excuse for the fakeclaim in that game, to catch scum, and I did.)

Like idk your just like a player like Trasncend and the others who like to fake claim to gain leverage.

I don't.

In about 80% of my total games, I realclaim in the entirety.
Of the 20% remaining, none are scumgames (the entirety of the scumgames are realclaims), and the reasons for not realclaiming in my entirety have damn-good, often self-evident, reasons for backing them, e.g. where realclaiming is detrimental to the town but holding some info back can do nothing but good things.

Fakeclaims are explicitly gambits designed to put the scum at a disadvantage, but have self-evident reasons backing them and are backed by a grain of truth, e.g. claiming bulletproof as macho or macho as bulletproof being a deception meant to either keep the scum from killing you or the inverse of making scum waste a kill on you, where you're telling the truth about having a modifier that adjusts your susceptibility to the kill but where explaining it truthfully wouldn't do the town any good. That is the one and only type of fakeclaim I will ever make as town and there's never an appropriate situation for a true fakeclaim as scum.

And this is a stance of mine that is incredibly well-documented. It's there in MD, it's there in endless number of games as both alignments, where I as town and scum alike say I don't fakeclaim as scum, where the scumgames do have trueclaims to them every single time. It's not a trust-tell because I COULD change the stance at any time--but it's long-standing and established because as scum it's always fucking moronic for me to fakeclaim especially since I can't fakeclaim worth a damn and having the truth on your side gives a level of sincerity that cannot be faked.

Regardless of your alignment, the truth is your greatest weapon--knowing you are in the right is something which cannot be faked. I can gambit as town, sure, claiming masons when I'm technically not the role mason. But these gambits still have elements of truth to them and self-explanatory reasons for them along with obvious end dates to them if need be. Gambits that have low-to-zero risk, but medium-to-high reward, and which are still holding to basic truths, just often...slightly adjusted for the sake of the gambit.

If I were going to gambit here, the gambit would've been "Deimos and I are actually masons". I'd lie and say that Deimos's early push on me was mason-distancing, and that behind the scenes, we were having disagreements with how to handle it, with Deimos wanting distancing but me being flagrantly obvious about it because that's just what I do. (And that would have truth behind it because behind the scenes, Deimos and I DID disagree. I wanted to treat the neighborhood as a masonry from the onset. Deimos was incredibly suspicious of me and thought I was probably scum until he was literally handed a result that told him I couldn't be.)

But I decided that lying and committing to a false mason claim would've done more harm than good here because while we are basically a masonry,

technically speaking

, we are not one, and that to save Deimos while Deimos is absent I needed to tell the entirety of the truth--which I have.

[mastina]

I'm still not liking your consistent dismissal of Panzer either.

My consistent dismissal of Panzer is valid and justified; again I will reiterate. Talk to the people in the Stop Being Banned! thread about Panzer as a mafia player. See what stances and opinions

they

hold about Panzer, the actions they explain he has done, the links they can provide to his play, and then after having done so go back here and tell me that my stance is in any way unjustified. Suffice to say, YES, I have good reasons for holding that stance.

Beyond that, I happen to legitimately think he IS scum because he literally claimed my auction power as his own and I don't believe his third party claim. His play in of itself is largely NAI I will fully admit that much but I feel my suspicion on him has merit.

[mastina]

It's not scum just because it's fake. It's just something mastina does to leverage other players in games as both alignments.

False, because as has been established: I don't fakeclaim as scum. I

could

, which is what keeps it from being a trust tell, but I don't, and haven't.

I can literally link to every single scumgame of mine onsite as proof of this statement.

But people will keep lying and saying I do it as both alignments because I have too many games and all of them are lengthy so they will keep going "I'm not going to read all of that to confirm, it's self-meta anyway and is thus worthless!!!"

When they are claiming something that is factually incorrect, and provably and demonstrably so.

[mastina]

And 796 just made my eyes roll into the back of my head. Freaking seriously on this shit? Then the OMGUS on Panzer in 800 is just the topping on the cake. Given your complete dismissal of anything that he says and keeping him in your scum reads, that vote feels personal and I'm not here for it.

My vote on Panzer is in no way OMGUS. Panzer has been a scumread of mine the entire game. I switched my vote to him for one simple reason:
I don't believe in Not Voting, barring special mechanical reasons not to (i.e. there's obviously a damn good reason to not vote in lylo).

The two universal weapons of the town are their Voice and their VOTE. It's my opinion that not using one is JUST as wasteful as not using the other--so parking a vote in Not Voting is a complete and total, utter, waste.

So when I want to take my vote off of someone, I NEED to place it on someone else.

I was removing my vote from the Battle Mage slot, and my reasons why I've since explained (tho I admit in the post I switched votes I didn't give the details since I was rushing it). I no longer scumread the slot--and no longer scumreading the slot, my vote needed to move to another slot.

Panzer was the obvious choice as a game-long scumread. I didn't want to vote catboi for similar reasons, I didn't want to vote Titus/Shiro either, literally the only other vote option was beeboy, and my thoughts on beeboy were still coagulating at the time, I wasn't sure I was comfortable voting beeboy at the time. (I've since decided that, yes, I am okay with voting beeboy, but as I have said before: I only have one vote, so I can't vote both at the same time, and Panzer is the stronger scumread.)

If you dislike her this much, why didn't you /in ? I've been standing up for you because I don't like her personal attacks towards you, but this selfishness can't be had either. You can't be like "well if she's still here, I'm not gonna be around." That's super unsportsmanlike and rude to the rest of the player list. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, but you're only hurting the other 11 of us by doing this. Not to mention how super lame it is.

Guess what Starbuck? This from Panzer is Panzer being

extra extra nice

, practically suspiciously so in fact. Yes. THIS from Panzer is him being EXTRA NICE.

Not fucking joking when I said that if you talked to people from the Stop Getting Banned thread about Panzer's antics as a mafia player, that my stance on him is comparatively generous and lenient of his antics. This game is Panzer

at his absolute best behavior

. Panzer can, has, and does, get much much worse than what he is in this game.

I have very low expectations from Panzer as a player in games. That doesn't mean my 'attack' on him is personal though, because I legitimately feel I have good reasons for actually feeling he's scum this game. The majority of his play I fully acknowledge is presumably NAI--but the remainder I think IS scum-indicative.

I think his claim is scum; I think his play does, loosely, indicate scum, in the little areas it indicates anything beyond his personality.

The idea of "mastina is attacking Panzer purely because she doesn't like him" is entirely false. Yes, I have low standards of him, I feel justifiably so, but I also feel that there's genuine reasons to believe he is scum.

[mastina]

One of his first posts was a gif of Captain Hook locking away Tinkerbell.

Deimos was explicitly breadcrumbing that he was trying to hook/bait me, the TITLE FAIRY, into a trap, more or less, and this is something that is evident with access to my PT too. Deimos didn't begin the game knowing I was town and to the contrary, posted everything he did earlygame in-thread and in the PT under the belief I was scum.

I fully expect, even, that Deimos thought his auction power would expose me as scum. Look at that image knowing that Deimos's auction power reveals my alignment and it becomes pretty obvious what Deimos was thinking; he was thinking that once auction ended, he could out me as scum for free, but then he got blindsided by me actually being town.

As for defending Deimos when Deimos is gone.
Deimos was being wagoned, we have one day until deadline, Deimos was prodded and I suspect siteflaked so will be replaced, yet by the time the mod would announce Deimos would be replaced, due to the deadline, Deimos was looking an awful lot like he was going to get deadline-lynched with nobody except for me apparently aware that Deimos's absence was due to having flaked. Deimos, who I'm convinced is town, was at risk of being lynched, with no chance to claim for himself due to being replaced.

By necessity, I needed to step in and do so for him, at least to some extent. The exact nature of Deimos's non-auction power I want to leave the decision on claiming to the holder of the slot, due to the nature of the power being something that they the user should have full discretion over the usage of in my opinion. But I could claim the auction power freely due to it already having been used.

[mastina]

Didn't you link 4 earlier this game?

I did in fact link four scumgames!

I did not link four scumgames where I fakeclaimed. I linked to four scumgames, out of 25. And

in the post that I did so

, I very specifically said that in any of the games where I claimed mason, regardless of how legitimate the claim was, I was not scum.

I linked to 25 games with a "pick which four of these are my scumgames". Those 25 games were the last 25 games I've played solo on-site, every game I've played solo onsite in the last two years. And it so happens that in the last two years, there's four solo scum games and 21 solo town games. The challenge was to figure out which of the four games were the scum games from just a brief, 30-second, skim of the iso of each game, to show that there's a night and day difference between my towngame and my scumgame.

If Deismos gets more pressure then talk to the other people on the wagon on how you faking results previously is good for town.

I've never faked a result in my life. I have fakeclaimed! I have never faked a result. Never claimed a cop inno when not a cop, never claimed a cop guilty when not a cop. The closest I have gotten is The Mason Gambit, but claiming masons with someone isn't a fake result claim, it's either a realclaim or a fakeclaim, with no result attached to it.

Can you just accept my stance or nah?

Considering you're probably scum and you're literally

voting a slot that is conftown

? Something that you're taking advantage of the absence of the slot that would verify it to push me on, when if the Deimos slot were filled they would instantly confirm it and back my claim up, when all you'd have to do is wait for the replacement and then they would confirm me?

No, I cannot accept your stance.

[mastina]

ANIME SEIYUU-PICK EPISODE 1

VOTECOUNT 1.10

catboi

(4): Donkey Kong, Panzerjager, Deimos27, MariaR

jks

(3): Shiro,

mastina(L)

, Tipsy

mastina(L)

(2): Starbuck, beeboy

Deimos27

(2): Titus, catboi

JacksonVirgo

(1): jks

Titus

(1): JacksonVirgo

Not voting (0)

:

TODOKETE SETSUNA SA NI WAAAA

13 players remaining, 7 to Vote Out.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-07-28 20:30:00).

DAY 1 AUDITION

AUDITION CLOSED

Winner:

Deimos27

Winner receives (until end of Night 1):

(NIGHT, PASSIVE) You survive ONE Pick/Kick Out attempt.

The next Audition will start in Day 2.

MOD ANNOUNCEMENT

LESS THAN 24 HOURS REMAINING!

Deimos27 has been prodded, they have until day deadline or (expired on 2020-07-28 11:01:12) to get back in the game.

Donkey Kong still has (expired on 2020-07-27 13:26:24) to get back in the game before they are replaced. Deadline will be pushed if a replacement is actually needed.

MOD: 1: I am voting Panzer.

2: Deimos has apparently siteflaked as his last visit to the site was three days ago--in light of his slot inevitably needing to be replaced, but due to his prod timer until replacement technically being after deadline, can we have deadline halted while you search for a replacement?

[mastina]

ANIME SEIYUU-PICK EPISODE 1

VOTECOUNT 1.10

catboi

(4): Donkey Kong, Panzerjager, Deimos27, MariaR

jks

(3): Shiro,

mastina(L)

, Tipsy

mastina(L)

(2): Starbuck, beeboy

Deimos27

(2): Titus, catboi

JacksonVirgo

(1): jks

Titus

(1): JacksonVirgo

Not voting (0)

:

TODOKETE SETSUNA SA NI WAAAA

13 players remaining, 7 to Vote Out.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-07-28 20:30:00).

DAY 1 AUDITION

AUDITION CLOSED

Winner:

Deimos27

Winner receives (until end of Night 1):

(NIGHT, PASSIVE) You survive ONE Pick/Kick Out attempt.

The next Audition will start in Day 2.

MOD ANNOUNCEMENT

LESS THAN 24 HOURS REMAINING!

Deimos27 has been prodded, they have until day deadline or (expired on 2020-07-28 11:01:12) to get back in the game.

Donkey Kong still has (expired on 2020-07-27 13:26:24) to get back in the game before they are replaced. Deadline will be pushed if a replacement is actually needed.

MOD: 1: I am voting Panzer.

2: Deimos has apparently siteflaked as his last visit to the site was three days ago--in light of his slot inevitably needing to be replaced, but due to his prod timer until replacement technically being after deadline, can we have deadline halted while you search for a replacement?

Pagetopping this so the mod can see it.

[mastina]

What do you think of the Deimos claim that he is loved so he takes another vote to be lynched but it also works in lylo?

You're crossing the streams.

Deimos's auction power is that he would learn the identity and alignments of everyone in his PT.
Deimos won the auction for D1.
Therefore, Deimos learned that I am town--

Deimos literally has a cop clear on me

.

Deimos has another power, a one-shot power that is ridiculously broken in the hands of scum due to no lylo restriction on it, because if used in lylo scum would auto-win. This power I have not shared the nature of what it is because it should be the Deimos slot that decides on how to handle that role power.

My

power is that I am Loved when I am at less than two votes away from the lynch (so on D1, I'm Loved when I have four or fewer votes).
My auction power is that I am Loved when at two or fewer votes away from the lynch, basically removing the above restriction on my Loved status.

Panzer's claimed auction power is that he becomes Loved--basically a direct counterclaim to my own auction power.

And in a Panzer v Me matchup, I am literally conftown and when we have someone occupying the Deimos slot, they will confirm it.

The wagon on Deimos was taking advantage of the slot being absent and in need of replacement; the wagon on me is taking advantage of the slot being absent and in need of replacement and therefore not backing me up.

But given that the Deimos slot can't be killed N1, you're in for a fucking

rude

awakening D2 when someone does fill the Deimos slot if you lynch me because they will fucking be asking why the FUCK you lynched conftown on D1.

[mastina]

Also, you can see Deimos's change in attitude pretty damn easily.
Here is a dual iso of the mod and Deimos.

Note posts like this from him before he won the auction.
He pushed me heavily.

Then compare to later where he goes out of his way to defend me.
He defends me harder here.
He defends me again here. (Notably, Deimos's later posts in regards to me contrast with his stance earlier; he originally was skeptical of the mason claim from me until he knew I was town.)
Here he defends me again.
Which he also does here.
Deimos echoed my challenge. No seriously. I have said, "show me a game where I fakeclaimed mason when I was scum--you can't because none exist". He was echoing me here because he knew I was town and thus knew that, as town, I wouldn't be lying about my own meta and thus that when I said no scumgames exist where I fakeclaim mason, none actually exist.
Here Deimos continues the defense of me and outright says he doesn't scumread me--what happened to his pregame scumtell of me, hmm? The answer is a fucking cop result happened.
Deimos continues to be on my side.
He sided with me in the mastina-BM fight as well.
Here he explicitly notes that I am a townread.

Deimos started with a hard-scumread on me, but that read was reversed with seemingly no in-game justification for it--because his reasoning came from outside of the game, from his fucking cop clear on me.

[mastina]

You shouldn't really trust what mastina is saying.

Why?

Why would I lie about something that another slot can come in and just outright say is false?

It's not a fucking lie and yes that slot WILL come in and confirm it. When they're actually in the damn game.

[mastina]

To paraphrase our PT, on July 9th at a little after 3 pm, Deimos went, "yoyo what up gang".
On Friday July 10th at a little after 8 pm, I went, "So is this a masonry?

I'm gonna treat it as a masonry.

On that note I'm a worthless role since I'm Loved whose Loved is disabled when I am at two or fewer votes from a lynch (so when at L-2 or L-1 I don't have the Loved ability, making my ability literally worthless)." (It should be noted that,

at the time

, I had completely missed the section about the auction power due to it being below the roles section so I didn't even realize I

had

an auction power until Deimos specifically asked me about it and I rechecked my role PM to notice it, as noted below.)

On Saturday shortly after 1:30 am, Deimos asked me why I am treating it like a masonry, wanting to know what I was basing that assumption off of, asking me why I wasn't worried that it could be just a 'hood and me giving my role to scum.

Deimos then quoted my post in the masonry, then went, ">Questions if this is a masonry
>Assumes it is a masonry
>Reveals role while complaining about its worthlessness

You must know how unnatural and LAMIST this progression appears".

He then went, "if that's your role I assume there is some other role in the game that interacts with it, but I don't know what it would be".

And then he went, "Pls confirm in your next post if you do consider your role mostly useless or if there is an element to it that you consider significant and have conveniently omitted."

And shortly thereafter (by this time being around 2:30 am having spent an hour typing the series of posts above), he posted, in the PT, the Captain Hook capturing Tinkerbell image, the exact same one he would open the game with. Except instead of just the image, he had above it text: "Call me Captain Hook because I am about to catch this title fairy".

Saturday, some time after 3:30 pm, I answered his "why treat this as a masonry" question with, "Well, I'm town, my role is absolutely worthless outside of having access to this topic, so I assume my real power role is access to this topic." In that same post, responding to the same post's question of worrying if I was claiming to scum, I went, "Well, are you scum? I do not think you are, and because I'm town, that'd make this a masonry. "

I then quoted his 'please confirm' post and responded, "My role is literally, 'You are Loved. Your role does not work when you are two votes or fewer away from being lynched.' Loved is a role where you require one more vote to be lynched than the default, so because my Loved status is disabled when I am at L-2, L-1, or L-0, it means my role is a glorified VT, outside of having access to this PT.

Thus, my assumption that this PT is my real power."

That same Saturday, after 4:30 pm, Deimos posted, "the reason I asked you the follow-up question is 'cause I thought the only world where town opens with such willing ignorance of this being a neighborhood--which it is--and roleclaims, is if they're fakeclaiming/making an incomplete claim and are reaction testing to see if I play along. I even added a negative connotation to the option of admitting a fakeclaim by including the word 'conveniently', to try and sway scum to run with this full claim nonsense. So now I think you're even scummier."

Deimos then quoted my 'well are you scum?' post and went, "This is such a terrible answer. You had no reason to think I am town at the time you roleclaimed. And this is a neighborhood, not a masonry. The difference is in whether the mod has confirmed our alignments to each other."

He then summarized that one of my powers was the PT, the other was useless, asking me why not claim the audition power while I was at it.

Sunday, almost exactly a day later (at near 4:30 pm, but slightly before), I quoted Deimos's post explaining his follow-through question, responding, "Well, you are not EXACTLY wrong on that: I basically pioneered The Mason Gambit, claiming masons as neighbors, and I have good reasons to run it.

When I claim mason as a neighbor, I usually don't expect the mason claim to hold indefinitely. But I claim it for a combination of reasons.
1: If my assumption of this being a masonry is correct, that it contains no scum, it can bait the scum into wasting their nightkills on a slot they would normally never waste a nightkill on.
2: If my assumption of this being a masonry is wrong, that it contains scum, I can bait the scum into revealing themselves. If I continue to live days after claiming mason, and/or my masonbuddy just goes along with the claim blindly, it's usually a sign that they're scum who let me claim mason with them as a matter of convenience because if anyone would take the fall from it, it'd be me, not them. A win-win scenario for scum.
3: If the above doesn't happen, then the odds are fairly good that the masonbuddy is actually town.
4: I am known for being somewhat audacious as town, Refuging In Audacity, and claiming masons inthread allows me to reaction-test the rest of the town.

So you're not exactly wrong. Treating this masonry as a masonry IS a reaction test. It's just also something that I happen to believe to be true: I DO think this topic is a masonry, for multiple reasons. As I said, my role is literally worthless outside of the neighborhood, so it makes sense if the neighborhood is the true power of my role. Thus, a masonry.

And beyond that, you DIDN'T react as scum would. I've never seen scum, in reaction to me treating a neighborhood as a masonry, become suspicious, become paranoid, be confused, be startled, have no clue what's going on in my head...but that reaction is something that is perfectly natural for a town player to have."

I then quoted Deimos asking about my audition bonus, and explained, "I completely missed that part of my PM.
I did not see there WAS an audition bonus. I was going to check my role PM, 'cause I was sure there was not any and was going to say, '...I do not have any?', but as it turns out, I am a moron and missed it before; it IS there, it is just that it is after the two profile parts.

My audition bonus is to keep my role enabled when at L-2, L-1, or L-0. Meaning I need to have that audition bonus to have my role actually be a role, it's otherwise completely worthless outside of this topic."

On Monday, around 9 am, Deimos bluntly told me that even if I townread him he had no townread on me and thus wouldn't go along with the mason claim.
Near 4 pm, he asked me if I have ever been a neighbor as scum.

He then quoted me saying my role was literally worthless, and went into detail about, as far as he could tell, "this is the extent of the reasoning you had for outright claiming to me, which I continue to think very weak.

But I am fairly surprised you did not notice your audition bonus, and suspect that to be a slight towntell. And this meta of never having fakeclaimed mason as scum is pretty compelling."

Then on Tuesday, at close to 10:30 am, Deimos, now with his role result, posted in the PT "Well, I guess you're town then", owing to having the result telling him as much.
He then made a followthrough post where he said as much, that his audition power may not be particularly impressive compared to some, but

did

give him an investigation of my slot.

I could continue to paraphrase the content past this point if you insist, but this is the timeline of the relevant sections, which show his behind-the-scenes progression along with where he got the result and when.

[mastina]

I could continue to paraphrase the content past this point if you insist, but this is the timeline of the relevant sections, which show his behind-the-scenes progression along with where he got the result and when.

Actually I think I'll do exactly that to prove that Deimos

did

have an abrupt change in the way he was treating me, to show that I'm not fucking lying about the result Deimos claimed, to demonstrate more from Deimos showing that I'm not bullshitting a conversation from scrap (not that I'm capable of doing so mind you butstill).

I'm mostly going to skip my posts in there, but I'll say that I did answer his question on if I've ever been a neighbor as scum before with, "I think, but not often, memory's hazy due to delirium from fever, will try to respond when more coherent", to which Deimos responded that it didn't matter anymore, because he knows I am town. (This is still around the 10:30 mark on Tuesday by the way.)

His next post was claiming his role power, not auction power, his actual role power, to me.

On Wednesday July 15th, at about the 7 am mark, Deimos said, "Hopefully, scum do not believe your mason claim, now that we are in fact masons (well, assuming you trust that I am town still)." He also asked if I had any reads I wanted to elaborate on privately.

On Thursday (that is, July 16th), shortly before the 9 am mark, Deimos explained, that, due to him being immune to the nightkill N1, he saw no harm in hiding that he knows I am town. He said that scum hopefully wouldn't nightkill me due to this level of suspicion and that nobody would claim me as a partner.

After I told him that I might have private thoughts on Sujimichi, on Friday at around 1:30 he noted there's lots of room for unique playstyles in mafia and that Sujimichi appears to be quite an enigma. He then said, "I'm starting on an arduous process of breadcrumbing that you are conftown in case I somehow die tomorrow night--I could get double-targetted, it is a thing--or before I out that info, anyway. I will give you the key when I am done so you have a conftown button."

But Deimos flaked before he finished it so he didn't give me that key. His last post in the PT, on Friday July 17th shortly after 2 pm was clarifying the nature of his auction power, giving the details of it which I have already shared.

[mastina]

ε=ε=((( ^-x-^)ﾉ Not reading a word of that post, cheers

Then you cannot hold to the narrative of the over-the-top lie because if you read the paraphrase of the PT you'll have the fucking proof that I'm not lying.

[mastina]

Maybe it's just Titus.

Quite probable, but I'd vastly prefer to not lynch her D1.

What's up, cultists? I had a dream asking me why I thought mastina would make a good cult leader - it's because of how she's acted during 2020 and her nuanced nuancey thought processes full of nuance.

Well this confirms that DK is someone who knows me fairly intimately well, at least as of 2020. Someone who knows that, yes, nuances to my readslist does indicate that I am town and that my 2020 play is night/day different between alignments. Someone like Alyssa (not her for obvious reasons) or Krazy (not him), levels of familiarity. The first name that came to mind was Pink Ball honestly. Dude's got the familiarity with Nintendo games, disposition for a meme alt, knowledge of me necessary, etc. Another possibility is Auro.

There's other possibilities, e.g. Gamma (ehhh somewhat doubtful), Dunnstral (also doubtful), Jingle, jjh (tho probably not his style), Menalque, Isis (somewhat doubt it tho), Alch (probably not), turkey, Vecna (probably not), Ari, Almost50 (almost assuredly not), the worst, Ginngie (probably not unless a memory which I thought is inaccurate actually was accurate, in that for a brief second I thought I remembered Ginngie being intimately familiar with games from that era but then discarded it as an erroneous memory), Xtoxm (probably not), is there anyone else familiar with me in 2020 that would know about the nuances of my play who isn't already a player in the game? It's a pretty short list so DK is probably among those names.

On the one hand--that means it's more likely that their townread of mine is more suspicious.

On the other hand--their lack of strong reads on most slots is something that only the smallest of small handfuls of the users above wouldn't be scum-indicative for them. Most of the users listed above

should

have more extensive thoughts on the game. But I'm pretty sure that DK should be one of the sixteen above because I don't see anyone who's not one of the sixteen having that level of accurate knowledge about me. (Tho thinking about it, somewhere in the range of 5-7 of them probably would be lackluster on D1.)

[mastina]

(It should be noted that of the 7 who I don't think are improbable tho. Only 2 of them are ones I'd expect to be lackluster on D1. The other five I would not.)

[mastina]

On the one hand--that means it's more likely that their townread of mine is more suspicious.

*more likely to not be suspicious / less suspicious, whoops. (Crossed the streams and combined half of both, changing the intended meaning to its opposite.)

[mastina]

isn't panzer just an obvious 3p?
Like I guess if we really want we can kill him. But I also don't see why I should care.

It would've been better than the Shiro lynch.

Not sure where to vote, still think I probably should be going either onto you, or I suppose,
VOTE: Panzer,
Though maybe Titus would be an option, too. (I guess catboi as a last resort even though I don't think catboi's scum currently.)

"HURT: " MariaR
Not a vote to give suspicion onto MariaR. I'm voting to activate MariaR's auction bonus, which I believe to be the correct use of the power. The public auction bonus being negative utility does not mean it will turn the personal auction bonus into negative utility, thus, it should still go onto a townread and I maintain MariaR's townness above all other eligible candidates. (Can't vote Chemist again.)

[mastina]

Mastina, what's your tipsy read?

Hard townread there, and probably the strongest townread off of a single slot I have in the entire game, albeit one that I recognize lacks anything in the way of meta. (I've never seen Tipsy play before, but I really really like Tipsy's content this game and think it's insanely town.)

Why is MariaR a good person to activate?

Because next to Chemist, she's the player I'd most trust to be town as all-but-conftown. (The only other player besides Chemist that'd have rivaled MariaR would be Starbuck, but I can't nominate her for obvious reasons. )

While I have both Tipsy and Mikul as locktown, they're lesser-locktowns compared to MariaR. I still think that both of them are town and I still won't budge on not removing them from the locktown tier, but if you were to absolutely force me to remove players from my conftown tier, of the four players in there currently, MariaR and Chemist would be the two I would remove last. Ergo, while I trust my locktown tier to all be town, my trust in MariaR being town is higher, and therefore, most worthy of having their personal power activated, as that'd presumably be nothing but a boon.

(Also, saves me the trouble of figuring out who to give the power to between Tipsy and the Mikul slot. Those slots are dead-even in my mind and I'm struggling to think which of them is more town than the other. Whereas MariaR is clearly more town than both of them.)

[mastina]

Do you think Panzer and Tipsy are awkwardly distancing? The interaction there is awkward to say the least.

You missed this.

Missed implies I didn't see it when I did but thought that my answer was sufficient enough on its own.

The fact that Tipsy is in my locktown tier is self-sufficient in stating that, no, I do not think that Panzer-Tipsy interactions are scum distancing. If there's scum in there it's Panzer, but those interactions do nothing to make Tipsy look bad regardless of Panzer's alignment.

[mastina]

For the record, did a Mikul iso right now and looking over it, I maintain that it's town, albeit with one caveat--

if

the catboi(Tuxedo) slot is scum, Mikul would become a probable scum partner.

In all other scenarios though, Mikul's slot is still town to me. (Did similar for Tipsy just before that and I just don't see Tipsy as scum either.)

[mastina]

Tipsy all but says that Panzer isn't being protown but refuses to vote him anyway. Tipsy also says Panzer is even lying about his 3p claim.

I would hardly call Tipsy refusing to vote Panzer considering that Tipsy has only one vote. If I voted you instead of Panzer, you could levy the very accusation you're making against Tipsy onto me, and it'd apply just as much. I've no issue with Tipsy's not voting Panzer now but having voted Panzer previously, encouraging that wagon, and showing a willingness to vote there.

Simply put: you're putting forward a narrative that outright goes against the established evidence I have.

Panzer meanwhile immediately practically naked votes Tipsy.

Panzer's vote on Tipsy is not naked given his D1 stated positions and stances, but even if this were something that's suspicious, it does not incriminate Tipsy in any way shape or form and if anything would vilify Tipsy as being more likely to be town if Panzer did indeed flip scum.

I just don't get how you are handwaiving my concerns mastina.

Because I just don't see how you could be presenting the arguments you are in good faith when they fly in the facts of the established evidence.

[mastina]

Beeboy might be scum in fact, I'd be a bit surprised if he wasn't but if beeboy dies I become a VT and I'm not ready to be a VT yet.

Yeah makes sense to me.

The three people that I'm willing to vote today are Panzer, beeboy, and Titus, because they're the three slots that are by far the most likely to be scum.

(I do need to re-review the BM slot overall on all sides/angles, and I admit that catboi

could

be scum and as I've said catboi flipping scum would mean that there'd be an entirely different gamestate, but in both cases I feel it just far less likely right now.)

[mastina]

Mastina, what is the established evidence you are referring to?

Oh, I dunno, just...
...Literally an entire game-wide is of Tipsy and Panzer? The constant stance of Tipsy the whole game suspicious of Panzer and even backing that up with a vote, and Panzer's stated suspicion of Tipsy including votes and hard-statements of scumitude?

That's not distancing. You could make an argument for mutual hard-bussing, but that's not the argument you put forward and even were it, given the choice between "these two are both hard-bussing" or "these two have one town in them minimum", I'm going to go for the latter nine times out of ten.

I want you you correct me and talk to me, not talk at me. It does nothing to help me sort you or analyze my reads to have you talk to me as if I am beneath you.

The change in your tone towards me is also striking. When Starbuck asked about your meta, you were all glowing about my abilities. Ever since then, you've been taking potshots at me and insinuating I could be scum because of our differing reads.

The change is quite simple and I already said why.

On D1, I explicitly said that I was treating you as if you were town, in spite of not having a townread on you. On D1, I had no townread on you and even leaned the opposite, towards scum, but in spite of that lack of a townread, I still gave you the treat-as-if-town treatment.

Today with a mislynch on the table, I can no longer afford to. So you get to be treated as the read you actually are--a scumread.

And when I see you pressing theories that run contrary to the established evidence that pretend to be backed up by the evidence in spite of actually being contradicted by said existing evidence?

Yes, that makes me further think scum.

[mastina]

also like, I'm just going to claim for real because reading all of your posts are fucking painful. I'm the town cop. I get results if I get targeted and not roleblocked. My character is Kogoro Mouri from Case Closed. Tipsy is scum btw.

Note that my vote is on Panzer.

Note that my vote is not moving off of him.

[mastina]

Do you think Panzer and Tipsy are awkwardly distancing? The interaction there is awkward to say the least.

You missed this.

Missed implies I didn't see it when I did but thought that my answer was sufficient enough on its own.

The fact that Tipsy is in my locktown tier is self-sufficient in stating that, no, I do not think that Panzer-Tipsy interactions are scum distancing. If there's scum in there it's Panzer, but those interactions do nothing to make Tipsy look bad regardless of Panzer's alignment.

Why not? Tipsy all but says that Panzer isn't being protown but refuses to vote him anyway. Tipsy also says Panzer is even lying about his 3p claim.
Panzer meanwhile immediately practically naked votes Tipsy.

To whit. Here is the dual iso of Panzer and Tipsy.

Tipsy's entrance has Panzer as a bottom read. Panzer's first true scumteam callout had Tipsy in it. Tipsy asked about it here. And things pick up a lot here, then here, and here, then here, and here, with more, and those votes lasted until Tipsy hammered in the last hour of the day the Shiro wagon (and that's not a scum action especially by your own viewpoint, Titus--you have said that Panzer wanting a no-lynch rather than a mislynch was scum, so it follows that Tipsy joining the Shiro lynch to ensure it's not a no-lynch is something that by your own logic, shouldn't be scum). Up until that last hour of the day, Tipsy was voting Panzer, and Panzer, Tipsy.

Panzer kept that vote to the end of the day, too.

Panzer's posts today have been abundantly clear in keeping the read from yesterday, opening up with a continued statement of the read. And more. And more.

And if you have issue with Tipsy's stance here, you're more or less taking issue with my stance on D1 because Tipsy's stance is my own.

Tipsy-Panzer interactions are very much not distancing. Panzer's empty accusation against Tipsy is in fact suspect, sure! But he's made those empty accusations against three players, and Tipsy is not unique among them.

You'd have a much much easier time convincing me Panzer's distancing from beeboy--that's a narrative I could get behind because that's a narrative actually backed by the facts.

But Panzer's never had Tipsy as anything other than scum, and Tipsy's never had Panzer actually north of null, with Panzer as anything from a hard-scumread to a conflicted-read and the waver between scum and not-sure is not in any way shape or form suspect and in fact is perfectly natural.

[mastina]

Mod: need a 48 hour V/LA

Not in a good mindstate to play today and will be busy tomorrow.

[mastina]

Why are you still voting Panzer?

Because I believe he's a cop even less than I believed his 3p claim.

[mastina]

Me. If you had a vig pool of 3 players, who would you pick?

Panzer, beeboy, and Titus.

[mastina]

(Plus I think there's pretty strong associatives between him and Mikul-slot, but for whatever reason, nobody wants to vote for that slot.)

I see these associations and am well aware of them, where if one were to flip scum I would indeed think the other is also scum.

But I don't think either is scum and one flipping town would more or less vindicate the other and permanently cement them as town.

[mastina]

I don't really trust Titus's claim - even if it's an audition ability and even if Starbuck was gated, two vigs in a 13p game is a lot. Plus I'm expecting most of the audition abilities to not be all that powerful or at least have some way of being gated based on other claims on the table and the flips, but Titus isn't claiming that. I guess it's too late to voice this opinion now that the audition is over, but meh.

You're not alone.

I'll believe Titus is a vig when I see two people die tonight with no other explanation, and not a moment sooner.

I'll believe Titus is a town vig if the person shot is scum, and not a moment sooner; I'd sooner believe she's a scum vig.

[mastina]

What do I need to know?

I am a mason with Chemist.
(I am also publicly Loved, but the Loved status disables when I get to L-2 or closer to a lynch. But, see below.)

Titus claims to have a vig power (activated via the auction bonus which she won today).

Panzer claims to have a cop power that requires someone visit him, a changed claim from his D1 claim of third party. He claimed his auction bonus is to become Loved--notably, my auction bonus is the exact same thing, causing the above aforementioned effect to no longer exist. So in terms of auction bonuses, his role is a direct counterclaim to mine when I am conftown.

jks controls what the public auction bonuses each day are (this has no effect on the private ones).

catboi claims to be a 1x JOAT, with the powers of {doc save, modified elite bodyguard which kills the attacker but still results in the protected player's death, auction doublevoter}, only able to use one of those three powers, once in the game.

Pretty sure those are the only explicit claims, but the Mikul slot has softed some sort of day power that may influence the votes but the exact nature of this power they've not clarified.

This game has only three of its original players in the game and one of them, Shiro, was deadline-lynched D1 because due to having so many replacements, D1 was pretty dead so we didn't get a clear consensus, Shiro was literally a last-hour deadline lynch where the options where Shiro or a no-lynch.

[mastina]

this is untrue, ftr. Mastina, myself and catboi were all valid options. catboi was l-3 or l-2 at time.

Yes well I was conftown, Chemist still had some lingering votes, you never got more than 2-3 votes, and catboi's wagon while it was there 24 hours before the original deadline, had fallen apart after the extended deadline. DK's wagon actually had more votes than catboi's wagon. I'm pretty sure this was an accurate reflection of the votes (well, minus two separate Panzer votes/wagons, combine them into one and that should be accurate).

That sure seems like a lack of clear consensus to me. Almost every wagon at two votes, with DK at three? Kinda hard to call that anything but a lack of consensus.

[mastina]

Thoughts on beeboy? I kinda feel like scum are demotivated because they realized I am unlynchable today.

As I said before, beeboy could be scum and I would expect him to be but his death makes me a VT and with my role I don't wanna be VT atm

At this point, MariaR, I think we need a scumflip more than we need your role.

Even if you were an unlimited ungated bulletproof cop at this stage, I'd still think that we need a scumflip more than we need your role, because we kinda do need that scumflip and beeboy is by far the universal consensus as highest chance of flipping scum and at this stage pretty damn obvious scum, honestly. (beeboy's not even trying to hide that beeboy's scum, and is outright abusing the fact that you don't want beeboy dead due to your own role.)

[mastina]

VOTE: Tipsy
Unless I hear otherwise, it will be lynch Tipsy/Catboi and shoot the other.

The Tipsy slot, now Aristophanes, has been clearly town the entire time. Tipsy was literally one of the towniest players possible, and Ari has immediately shown this to be his towngame, too.

There's three slots that I want dead: you, Panzer, and beeboy.

There is a fourth that I'd add purely because of a need to add another name, catboi,

but

, adding catboi comes with the caveat that if catboi dies and flips town,
1: The Mikul slot, now JacksonVirgo, is considered conftown levels of town for the rest of the game because literally the one and only way the slot is scum is if it's with catboi so catboi flipping town hard-clears the slot, and,
2: That you get lynched the next day because my condition for not lynching you is that you vig/lynch scum and catboi flipping town means you didn't.

[mastina]

Timing of beeboy's vote on tipsy is actually really bothersome, like he didn't even bother to take a stance on them until they were out of the game and then makes a vote the replacement can't defend against.

It's blatantly opportunistic and like I said: beeboy is exploiting the fact that MariaR is protecting beeboy for role-related reasons to get away with being blatantly pro-scum, not even bothering to hide it. No need to pretend to be town if the town refuses to lynch you for it.

[mastina]

I don't see any indication Aristophanes has started reading the game yet. How did you get a town read on him?

Because while Ari might not have caught up on game content prior to his replace-in, he has been keeping up on the content since he replaced in, and that content is notably incredibly likely to be his town meta.

[mastina]

Mastina's read on me stems from the fact I thought she was playing like shit and nothing to do with my play.

Oh it is entirely to do with my play, including how I was never playing like shit and how I felt you would be aware I wasn't. But aside from that. You've been a scumread from everything you have, and critically, haven't done, so no, the read is not centric to me, even if your treatment of me contributes to the read. There's plenty to suspect you for outside of your treatment of me.

Tipsy had to self vote so was that wagon really driven by multiple scum then a self vote? Wtf were we doing as town at that point? lmao.

Tipsy did not self-vote. That was Battle Mage.

[mastina]

And Aristophanes is doing nothing to change my mind on Tipsy. So I don't really have a good reason to vote off.

You absolutely should, because you've played with Ari before and should know that this is town-indicative of him.

Does Tipsy have a town case beyond Mastina doesn't like me and I want to vote for him?

Sure does! Tipsy's entire iso is filled to the brim with gamesolving and shows original thought processes that, while not exactly entirely unique, were still clearly Tipsy's own thoughts, not copying mine for instance.

The pushes have all been in good places, the spouts Tipsy had with players all looked good and Tipsy in those spouts always came out looking better than their counterpart (not that that was too hard when said counterparts were BM and Panzer, butstill).

The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the defender, so what is the

scum

case for Tipsy?

[mastina]

Is there any way we can make this game be fastpaced?

Someone has to take charge IMO. We have two conftown who are reluctant to do so or are behind. Well mastina's perpetually behind, so I'm trying to let her catch up to the end. She's the closest thing to a recommendation for my vig shot tonight atm. I just want a pool of three to shoot from someone whom I feel is a solid town voice. Hell, even the suspicious people aren't voicing opinions. The game has just stalled.

I already gave you that pool.
Since you won't shoot yourself, my pool is precisely:
{Panzer, beeboy, catboi}, with the understanding that IF you shoot catboi and IF catboi flips town I'll immediately lynch you for it because you're asking me for three names when I really only have two, and will never have more than those two, because the majority of the game is townreads. (And I am skeptical of you being a town vig, and you taking the easy option of shooting catboi the slot that is probably mislynch bait rather than shooting scum, would be what a scum vig would do.)

(And, notably, if catboi flips town, Creature's slot is basically conftown, which is another reason that catboi's slot is the requested third.)

I want to lynch either Panzer or beeboy.

Chemist is town; MariaR is town; Aristophanes is town; the one and ONLY way Creature could be scum is if catboi were scum and in literally every other scenario, is town.

jks has become a reasonable, but not infallible, townread. DK and catboi are both on the town side of null, but are the townreads I'd most likely be wrong about.

[mastina]

I think I'm really behind. What are all the night results/claims we got?

What do I need to know?

I am a mason with Chemist.
(I am also publicly Loved, but the Loved status disables when I get to L-2 or closer to a lynch. But, see below.)

Titus claims to have a vig power (activated via the auction bonus which she won today).

Panzer claims to have a cop power that requires someone visit him, a changed claim from his D1 claim of third party. He claimed his auction bonus is to become Loved--notably, my auction bonus is the exact same thing, causing the above aforementioned effect to no longer exist. So in terms of auction bonuses, his role is a direct counterclaim to mine when I am conftown.

jks controls what the public auction bonuses each day are (this has no effect on the private ones).

catboi claims to be a 1x JOAT, with the powers of {doc save, modified elite bodyguard which kills the attacker but still results in the protected player's death, auction doublevoter}, only able to use one of those three powers, once in the game.

Pretty sure those are the only explicit claims, but the Mikul slot has softed some sort of day power that may influence the votes but the exact nature of this power they've not clarified.

This game has only three of its original players in the game and one of them, Shiro, was deadline-lynched D1 because due to having so many replacements, D1 was pretty dead so we didn't get a clear consensus, Shiro was literally a last-hour deadline lynch where the options where Shiro or a no-lynch.

This gives the claims and summary of D1.

Not sure how much I agree with mastina's reads. Meh.

Well the main ones are Chemist town, you town, MariaR town, and Aristipsyphanes town.

Beyond that we get into the murky gray zone.
Individually, the three players I most suspect are beeboy, Titus, and Panzer, but I do recognize that all three are a somewhat unlikely scumteam.

If catboi is town, a read of yours I agree with, then that narrows the pool even further--the only other names beyond those three which could be scum? Donkey Kong and jks.

I have felt that jks, since replacing in, has (similarly to Tipsy) been one of the towniest slots in the entire game, consistently gamesolving and pushing good theories and having good reasons and actually trying.

Which narrows it down to, in four players, there being three scum.
And those four players are Titus, Donkey Kong, Panzer, and beeboy.

We have reason to not lynch Titus or beeboy today, due to Titus's claimed vig and due to Maria's watcher/tracker role.
Which leaves lynch options as DK or Panzer.

[mastina]

like in a hypothetical scenario where we eliminate aristophanes and he flips town are people going to re-evaluate me or just keep clinging to the same lazy reads

Until you give better reasons for who scum is then I'll stick to my lazy reads <3

MariaR you know Ari. You've literally played dozens of games with him.

Does this look like a typical Ari-scumgame or a typical Ari-towngame? By far it's the latter.

Beyond that, Tipsy, contrary to the case beeboy made against them, was far from lurking. Tipsy was by far one of the most active players in the game. As a replacement on midway through D1, Tipsy managed to get one of the longest isos in the game, was engaging on multiple fronts, engaging with multiple people, and was actively trying to solve.

The Tipsy/Aristophanes slot here just isn't scum.

I've maintained that you're town the entire game, and that Chemist is town the entire game.

That leaves Creature/JacksonVirgo/Mikul, catboi, Donkey Kong, jks, Titus, Panzer, and beeboy.

This is pretty damn obviously Creature's towngame, JacksonVirgo was townsolving while he was here, and Mikul was also town. So it's not him.

Which leaves six slots for three scum:
catboi, jks, Titus, Panzer, beeboy, and Donkey Kong.

You yourself admit beeboy/Panzer almost assuredly has at least one scum in it and Titus raises a good point that it could be (and probably is) two.
Which means there'd be 1-2 scum in {catboi, jks, Titus, Donkey Kong}.

We're not lynching Titus today for the same reason we're not lynching beeboy today; role related reasons to put off their death for at least half of a phase.

Since we're not lynching beeboy or Titus today, that leaves us with the following lynch options:
{catboi, jks, Panzer, Donkey Kong}.

It's my belief that catboi is town; it's my belief that jks is town.

[mastina]

I feel like my intentions in the above are clear enough, buuuuuut, to comment on Titus's plan officially:
Titus's plan feels like it has merit. With MariaR watching and tracking Chemist, Chemist's vig action that he'll have will go through.
Titus should shoot at beeboy.
Chemist's shot should be unleashed, with Chemist shooting whoever he pleases.

And our lynch should then therefore be either Panzer or Donkey Kong.

[mastina]

This was a game I played in.