Large Normal 229 | Manatee's Musical Mafia | Game Over

[superbowl9]

FINALLY

VOTE: Glitch

[superbowl9]

Unless there is good evidence of lurking, no. Mis-elimming an active slot will generally tell us more than a mis-elim on an inactive slot. This obviously only applies to early game, activity will be a useful source of information later in the game because of how easy it is to fly below the radar.

Disagree low activity players are better for scum to have around. Elimming a high activity slot just for info is not a good idea

[superbowl9]

Unless there is good evidence of lurking, no. Mis-elimming an active slot will generally tell us more than a mis-elim on an inactive slot. This obviously only applies to early game, activity will be a useful source of information later in the game because of how easy it is to fly below the radar.

Disagree low activity players are better for scum to have around.

Elimming a high activity slot just for info is not a good idea

That's really not what I said though, was it...

True, you said elimming higher activity slots gives more info which is 1 not necessarily true and 2 implies elimming high-content slots is not that bad which is harmful

[superbowl9]

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

[superbowl9]

Disagree low activity players are better for scum to have around.

Are you open wolfing? vigs shooting low activity players is decent vig play, as you said keeping them around is better for scum since they make a good scapegoat if they are town.

Pointing out what you agree with is true makes me open wolfing??

[superbowl9]

Thank god we’ve generated some AI discussion out of the 4 theory posts that took over the game thread huh MM

VOTE: Marshall

[superbowl9]

Haha this wagon sucks! Instead let me build a case on someone else with 5 pages of RVS!

Yall sound very eager to throw shade while you are both doing nothing sitting on RVS votes

[superbowl9]

Your vote was RVS initially no? For a 21 player game seems very convenient that your RVS vote just happened to morph into your biggest scumread

[superbowl9]

Do you have anything else on Bell besides that he's lamisting? Convince me i'm wrong

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Not angry, just trying to create interactions. Which you should know with your level of experience

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But can you answer my question tho 0.0

[superbowl9]

Got it. Do you think me explaining the wagon at this point is better for town at this moment? As they say with humor, explaining the joke will ruin its impact.

[superbowl9]

Not angry, just trying to create interactions. Which you should know with your level of experience

Your tone inflicted more than just "looking for interactions". Otherwise i would have responded differently.

Exactly, when you want to spark real interactions you don't comment as if you just are looking for an interaction lol. That makes for watered-down interactions, much like explaining out an early wagon waters down the wagon. Finesse my guy!

[superbowl9]

I mean if you don't see what I (and presumably others) see you don't need to join the wagon lol. But to shade it just because you don't understand it and then ask us to remove all impact from the wagon by explaining it does not seem very positive of a play here.

[superbowl9]

Okay good talk im gonna go shower

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I mean if you don't understand it I don't think I can really help you fam

It's kind of like telling you why explaining a joke no longer makes it funny, if you don't get it you just don't get it

Ah yes, the scum distancing on pg 5 of a large game strat. I can argue with you if that will make you feel better

[superbowl9]

Wagons =/= elims

"But superbowl does that mean you're just hopping on a wagon to add pressure and get the game moving, even if you don't have a strong SR because you know wagons produce interactions?"

^ And now you've removed all pressure that my vote holds

[superbowl9]

If you didn't think it was forced SvS why did you bring it up? Do you just not understand the concept of keeping information to yourself so you can greater benefit lol?

[superbowl9]

Do you just not understand the concept of keeping information to yourself so you can greater benefit lol?

oh, you are one of those players :/

Nah not necessarily. Transparency is powerful but it's also a game of information. If you just put everything out there 100% of the time you will lose your advantage.

[superbowl9]

If you didn't think it was forced SvS why did you bring it up? Do you just not understand the concept of keeping information to yourself so you can greater benefit lol?

Where did I say it was forced SvS ? Dont remember saying that

Yeah thats my point

[superbowl9]

All good. I'm down to wagon this creature

[superbowl9]

Fine extraterrestrial creature

VOTE: stan1ey

[superbowl9]

You say an argument looks fabricated. What’s your next thought as a mafia player? Who stands to benefit from fabricating arguments?

It seems like you observe some fact about the game and then just turn off the part of your brain which follows up and makes conclusions from that fact. Also explains why you would not be able to see why weak early wagons are fine to just let be

[superbowl9]

How dare you

[superbowl9]

Anime pfps are rising in strength. Soon we will take over the universe

[superbowl9]

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

Nothing wrong with that post. Why wouldn't !townMM try to halt discussion that they think is filler and bloating the thread?

How are we bloating RVS?? We both posted like twice and it wad like two sentences each time. I’ve seen theory take over threads but this was nowhere even close to that

[superbowl9]

You say an argument looks fabricated. What’s your next thought as a mafia player? Who stands to benefit from fabricating arguments?

It seems like you observe some fact about the game and then just turn off the part of your brain which follows up and makes conclusions from that fact. Also explains why you would not be able to see why weak early wagons are fine to just let be

Well stanley is voting for you. How is that for a follow up?

I would also look favorably upon a superbowl wagon

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

Taking note of how you proposed an alien wagon then flaked

[superbowl9]

Oops didnt mean to quote 235 there

[superbowl9]

Oh nah i didnt know that

[superbowl9]

On mobile

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Also dude naked voting someone and saying aha you reacted is the worst possible reaction test of all time

[superbowl9]

i mean, it wasn't really a reaction test. Do you feel like the level of agression that he's sending my way is justified?

Yes any level of aggression is really warranted from a naked vote. Thats why its a bad RT its literally NAI

[superbowl9]

you and suberbowl are saying that.

Nah I aint said that

[superbowl9]

Taking note of how you proposed an alien wagon then flaked

taking note that SB tried to throw heat on me for changing my mind and vote. He wanted my play to remain static.

Just said I didn't see your original alien vote tho lol

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I mean "failing" that RT shouldn't lead to a SR

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Got it

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I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw
Risk/reward of being that active this early in the game is not very favorable

[superbowl9]

I've said it wasn't a RT like 3 times now, why do you keep insisting that it was a RT? And what do you think of my actual reasom for voting him and his explanation/lack there of depending on POV?

LOL cause you're the guy who disagreed when I said concealing info is helpful for all alignments

A straight naked vote would be a little weird coming from that philosophy no? I mean regardless of this meaningless shade I just threw it became a RT whether you like it or not because you analyzed the reaction and knew it had potential to have what you view as a negative reaction.

I get why you voted him (I think) and I dont necessarily disagree just think alien is better right now

[superbowl9]

The "I don't care if I die early" is blatant ate that's the main reason Norway needs to go.

I hate when people do this. Idc if you kill me stuff is so NAI yet so easy to paint as scummy

[superbowl9]

Oops didnt mean to quote 235 there

Were you going to make a case on CSF?

You say an argument looks fabricated. What’s your next thought as a mafia player? Who stands to benefit from fabricating arguments?

It seems like you observe some fact about the game and then just turn off the part of your brain which follows up and makes conclusions from that fact. Also explains why you would not be able to see why weak early wagons are fine to just let be

Well stanley is voting for you. How is that for a follow up?

I would also look favorably upon a superbowl wagon

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

Taking note of how you proposed an alien wagon then flaked

Why did you ignore my post? This isn't the first time you just glossed over someone verbalizing a scumlean on you.

I was gonna respond to it but decided it wasnt worth it because it was a misrep. If you call that vote a follow up it's admitting alien thought that argument was SvT or SvS posturing which makes no sense (which he knows which is why he keeps backing off that position). It's just OMGUS. Also this is a tricky little semantic misrep because I was clearly talking about him not drawing conclusions from facts, not him being unable to follow his reads with votes.

[superbowl9]

It is scummy. Not at all NAI.

I have actually seen this more from town than scum. Both have equal motivation to do it so both theory and practice agree it's NAI

[superbowl9]

It doesn't make sense from any!stanley which is why we all realize he can't hold that position, so he backed off it. Because why would SvT fake an argument and why would SvS posture on pg 5 in a large and draw the shitstorm of attention we've gotten

[superbowl9]

CSF because he said it was staged why would SvT stage an argument

[superbowl9]

Had a feeling the MM omgus was coming if I waited long enough

[superbowl9]

I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw
Risk/reward of being that active this early in the game is not very favorable

There are 5 scum. You seriously think all 5 are going to be low/medium posters and just allow town to form a town-block. Yeah nah

Yes that's what I said. You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO??? We've been at each other's throats

[superbowl9]

I think MM's spew is kinda IIoAy

[superbowl9]

Not in the traditional way but more in the just put out a bunch of basic level argumentation thats really low hanging fruit type of way if you get me - not saying it's AI yet

[superbowl9]

Bleh, just as I was starting to get a gut scum feeling about Superbowl (SB), MM throws a proper case together and is going to make it look like I am sheeping (for the 2nd or 3rd time in this game ).

My read started after re-reading the Stanley interaction. I think Scum!SB genuinely thinks it's a good case that he can latch onto and look like he is scumhunting. And it kind of is, except for the fact that there absolutely could be a SvT interaction that "feels" forced (I take Stanley's response as a throw-away gut feeling after reading - I have made similar statements): Scum could be doing the forcing, which gives the conversation a forced feel overall. Given I have a mild town read on Stan, I am willing to trust his gut in this.

Then there is the reluctance to respond openly, which could be scum motivated as the information may not exist.

And then the response to mis-quoting in 308; later you say you were going to respond, but your initial response doesn't really add up. I think a more natural town response would be to respond to 235, probably in a slightly flustered way given you mis-posted.

All very minor things, but they all add up.

I also am getting town vibes from Nero (and NoPowerOverMe, which will matter in a second). Trusting these vibes puts a question mark over Glitch. And where are you in Glitch's reads? Right where a scum partner would be. I know it is absurd looking for associations prior to a single flip. But like I say, the little things are adding up.

Spoiler:

The difference in a 4 vote wagon and a 5 vote wagon in this game is literally so miniscule that it makes no difference, especially when one of those votes is Lapsa. The MM wagon will continue to die down until MM comes back on and responds to the investigation kicked off by CSF and reminded by me in my post above. If his response is shitty then I'm all for building a serious wagon then. But let's not pretend that 3 votes + Lapsa is a remarkable wagon opportunity to pass up. It's not.

I love a good, strong wagon. The MM wagon is not one as it stands and my vote remains more useful on you.

So far today I'll be cool with serious wagons forming on Nero, MM depending on response, or Norway. I won't be voting Superbowl or NPOM as they are my highest TRs, CSF is almost up to that same peak tier.

Bell why does Nero feel townie to you?
Nero, why are you hesitant to accept the town block invitation?
Popopo, have you not shown up yet because of the vote tag rule?

VOTE: Superbowl

Why do you think stanley is good for scum me to latch onto over town me? What has stanley done to give you a townread?

It sounds to me like your case is "well scum superbowl

could

have done all of these things!" I hope I don't have to tell you that's a bad case.

For the misquote thing I was on mobile and hit the quote button to respond, then changed my mind because I assessed it as not too big of a deal to respond to, you're saying I should have been flustered by it and responded immediately? Maybe I just don't get flustered because I'm built different

[superbowl9]

There are two possibilities: either Offsuit is a pretty OMGUSsy townie, or they're scum throwing shade at me.

Oh the irony

[superbowl9]

CSF because he said it was staged why would SvT stage an argument

I think there are two interpretations of what stanley was trying to convey in 165, and I'll let him clarify which one. But I didn't think stanley was trying to say that the argument was pre-planned, so much as the argument developed weirdly.

Really getting tired of ppl trying to use general contexts to say that what stanley said made sense. If they’re talking about the argument being staged, that makes no sense. If they’re talking about the argument being a little bit of a stretch/over nothing, we’re trying to escape RVS so why would you say that unless you’re trying to supress AI content??

[superbowl9]

Some people just say what's on their mind

Don't see how it suppresses AI content

This is what I'm saying like you're playing mafia. If you think the argument is kind of forced you should next be thinking why that argument seems forced. Oh we are transitioning from RVS? Makes sense. Looks like I won't pointlessly post that this argument seems forced which could be interpreted as me shading this as scummy.

That's the thought process I would expect. You seem like you are just trying to shoehorn in good reasoning for this poor statement

[superbowl9]

Because why would SvT fake an argument

Every argument scum make is forced because they are having to pretend to be scumhunting? Why is so hard to understand

This is semantic tap dancing, you were not accusing either of us of fake scumhunting there

[superbowl9]

Unless you were which makes your statement even worse

[superbowl9]

Not misrepping that you think it's SvS. Im accusing you of making a pointless statement which went against good progression of the gamestate

[superbowl9]

CSF because he said it was staged why would SvT stage an argument

This post is at best superbowl deliberately misrepping me and at worst blatantly lying about what I said can we just lynch him already pls

Ironic that this is a misrep. If you look at what I'm replying to it's CSF saying that if you were talking about the argument being SvT that mindset would make sense. I don't think this is what you were talking about but I am saying that this mindset wouldn't make sense if it was what you were talking about.

Also we're both online dude, talk to me. Do you think I'm scum trying to miselim an easy target?

[superbowl9]

I think NPOM agreed with you and made his argument as such

[superbowl9]

Town on norwegian and bell and slight scum on MM, I'd probly have to reread through others to give you more. Lmk and I will

[superbowl9]

Half gut half he's contributing positively to the conversation and half im trying to counterpocket him

[superbowl9]

@NPOM haha yes it is yes it is. You're in my backup elim null colum

[superbowl9]

hmmmmm

Big if true

[superbowl9]

This reminds me of the game I hosted with you in super lel

Ikr our power seems to eek into every game these days

[superbowl9]

Had a feeling the MM omgus was coming if I waited long enough

I think MM's spew is kinda IIoAy

Not in the traditional way but more in the just put out a bunch of basic level argumentation thats really low hanging fruit type of way if you get me - not saying it's AI yet

Discrediting 2 pages of my content without any quotes and labelling them as IIoA and OMGUS? Nice

Yeah your 2 pages are just basic information and not really things that are pushy/pushable, hence why it's IIoA. I know you want me to go point by point through so you can undermine my position, but that literally makes no sense because I'm saying you've been cluttering the thread with basic info. Why would I respond to/elaborate upon that basic info lol?

Also dude you have literally OMGUSed everyone who has slighted you. Idk why you view this as a "discredit" because (at least imo) OMGUS is pretty NAI in most cases but it's just funny to point out when you OMGUS scumread someone then say they're OMGUSing.

[superbowl9]

I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw
Risk/reward of being that active this early in the game is not very favorable

There are 5 scum. You seriously think all 5 are going to be low/medium posters and just allow town to form a town-block. Yeah nah

Yes that's what I said. You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO??? We've been at each other's throats

There's no way someone with a town mindest would misinterpret what I meant.
Let me break it down.

1. You say "I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw"
2. I disagree. I say it's highly unlikely that all the top volume posters are town, on the premise alone that scum would not allow town to dictate the game's trajectory by mostly just lurking. If there are active town posters, scum will usually interject and derail unless there is TvT aggro.
3. You say "You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO?"
4. That is clearly not what I said.

More votes on superbowl required

Choo Choo Choo!

No no no you are misunderstanding what I said. When I say you think there's a townblock I mean you think there's some townblock that

can

be created within the top 5 that scum needs to stop, not that there actually is one operating right now. Maybe it would have been better phrased as "you think theres a townbock to be prevented within the top 5/6".

[superbowl9]

i get feelin whys every one tslking

Mmmm more expert analysis. I'm on the edge of my seat

[superbowl9]

Regarding MM the reason I cued in on this IIoA thing is because I used to play the same way a while ago, which is just put out very noncontroversial and logically sound statements to just build up this image of a very towny player, since I'm posting things everyone will agree with.

The issue is with this approach in a large is that it leads to lots of big information posts that lead to very few conclusions and actionable statements, and since we already have large amounts of content to pore through it's tough to read through a whole wall just to get that MM agrees with something someone already said. Also it's a great way to hide your alignment behind generally correct and innocuous statements so it makes you harder to read (which can be good for MM but bad for the rest of us).

[superbowl9]

@superbowl9 so you flipped on zhukov, ay?

Who's zhukov and actually who are you

[superbowl9]

I can't tell if I'm scumreading Ralph or if I'm just annoyed that I need someone to translate his posts for me to understand them.

How are you scumreading someone with no content who posts gibberish

[superbowl9]

I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw
Risk/reward of being that active this early in the game is not very favorable

There are 5 scum. You seriously think all 5 are going to be low/medium posters and just allow town to form a town-block. Yeah nah

Yes that's what I said. You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO??? We've been at each other's throats

There's no way someone with a town mindest would misinterpret what I meant.
Let me break it down.

1. You say "I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw"
2. I disagree. I say it's highly unlikely that all the top volume posters are town, on the premise alone that scum would not allow town to dictate the game's trajectory by mostly just lurking. If there are active town posters, scum will usually interject and derail unless there is TvT aggro.
3. You say "You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO?"
4. That is clearly not what I said.

More votes on superbowl required

Choo Choo Choo!

No no no you are misunderstanding what I said. When I say you think there's a townblock I mean you think there's some townblock that

can

be created within the top 5 that scum needs to stop, not that there actually is one operating right now. Maybe it would have been better phrased as "you think theres a townbock to be prevented within the top 5/6".

Doesn;t matter how you word it.
At no point did i suggest there were 5 town in the top 5 posters, as you suggest. I said THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE.
I said theres sure to be scum in the top 5 active posters.
You completely ignored the intent of my post and chose to read what you could conveniently spin otherwise.

You still do not understand me. You say there must be scum in top 5 because scum wouldn’t sit back and allow a tonblock to form. I say what townblock could be forming in our top 5 we are at each others’ throats. Now you move the goalposts and move to your conclusion that there is scum there instead of your premise, which i was challenging, that there is a potential townblock to be challenged in the top 5.

[superbowl9]

Yeah youve been hopping around a lot cain

Ima take a look at this argument between yall but it just seems like a misunderstanding that you aggrod on to me rn

[superbowl9]

Did i say jumping around is bad lol

[superbowl9]

Impression comes from you pushing stanley, glitch, and norwegian but doesn't seem to me like your push gets resolved and then you move on, more like u just switch for little reason

[superbowl9]

Again im not shading you I made an offhanded comment that should not even be a slight because we all agree that this is not scummy

[superbowl9]

Nah nero I think you're wrong here and just being stubborn

[superbowl9]

Not gonna go into it because this is already dominating discussion and going point by point is useless work but I honestly think our time is better spent outside of this Cain/Glitch argument

[superbowl9]

Yes lol

[superbowl9]

How about MM? What's your read on that

[superbowl9]

yes, I'm informing the guy that the game could possibly come down to a choice between him and Glitch.

Making him more likely to vote Glitch and less likely to create a new wagon.

Dont worry I make my own decisions

[superbowl9]

Also I had kinda felt like Glitch's hesitation @ joining the MM wagon made MM somewhat likely to be town. What do you think about that?

Sorry but can you link me to this post? I don't remember this

[superbowl9]

You think scum is on my wagon right now?

[superbowl9]

Hiraki pls don't continue with your catchup you're not helping anyone in the thread by quoting and saying "bad"

[superbowl9]

Very convenient for you lol, you get to not explain your reads! I think that's what you wanted, hm? Great discredit again, btw. I'd like you to at least back it up A BIT with some quotes, if you don't mind.

I have some more interesting things I want to focus on so if my IIoA statement on you bothers you then you can just give me posts where you think you're actually progressing the gamestate and we can talk. Otherwise you'll have to wait till you move up on my priority list

[superbowl9]

Glitch do you have anything else to contribute outside of your Cain tunnel?

[superbowl9]

It looks like scummy gibberish?

This is the biggest asspull scumread of all time. You can't even decipher this shit and you think it's scummy? LMAO

[superbowl9]

Okay done being a dick sorry

Reaver your avatar is very calming

[superbowl9]

The wagon against you is bad but it's in the lead. Why do you think that is?

I think maybe a few scum and poorly playing town

[superbowl9]

Cain I think you are targeting the wrong people in Glitch and MM, arguing with them isn't producing helpful content. Glitch will be a miselim that provides 0 info. Come back to stanley with me! That seems like a much better flip for everyone

[superbowl9]

This looks genuine to me, probably because I tend to make wallposts/a lot of small posts when I catch up too. Good feeling on Hiraki for now.

This is the worst townread of all time

[superbowl9]

Actually this seems more interesting/likely to go to elim for me

VOTE: lapsa

[superbowl9]

Just to put this back up because I want to see a claim and jumping off at L-2 to avoid a quickhammer (which should just show scum anyways)

VOTE: Glitch

L-2

[superbowl9]

I feel like Superbowl is a better lynch info-wise.

PLEASE

remember this if I flip green at any point

[superbowl9]

Nah he was already voting glitch

[superbowl9]

If glitch is actually scum what does that tell us besides nero town

Because if glitch isn't scum I think that tells us not much at all

[superbowl9]

My b im a party pooper

[superbowl9]

Agreed I think the more problematic ones here are stanley and some of the low post count gang

[superbowl9]

He seems completely tunneled + you seem reasonable to an extent

[superbowl9]

Also you're not a leading wagon

[superbowl9]

If theres 1 thing i hate it’s people bailing from a wagon for bs reasons. Finish your wagons properly ppl. Although im totally fine if we just move over to stanley.

72 why are you still scumreading me when you initially did so because you couldn’t understand what i said?

[superbowl9]

You sure know how to lose a game stanley

[superbowl9]

LMAO good to know you're happy to elim the two people who have most advanced the game stanley

[superbowl9]

what about nero today, superbowl tomorrow?

Ftr im against lining up lynched. but either one is a good lynch rn

^Wow I actually agree with you almost 100% on this

[superbowl9]

Oops accidentally did the quote shit again, was talking about MM's post.

Was gonna point out that this stanley shit was ridiculous but realized the first of those quotes is a joke

[superbowl9]

Although I will say stanley seems to only want the game to stagnate. He's done nothing but OMGUS the 3 biggest contributors and point out useless tidbits

[superbowl9]

Nah glitch is town and stan is just a negative reactionary

[superbowl9]

Sadly already is a habit here

[superbowl9]

UNVOTE:
Was never really down to elim glitch to begin with

Can we move on at least for today? We will know sooner or later what’s up. And while we’re at it can we decide who we’re wagoning next sometime soon

[superbowl9]

Stanley’s always an option, or what about the neon striped profile person? They seem pretty off base so far

[superbowl9]

Yeah VOTE: fwesnid

[superbowl9]

Yeah i can go to 72, reaver, I think Fwesnid has a better chance getting off the ground outside of us two tho.

[superbowl9]

Yes that is scummy jackson

[superbowl9]

Do you still scumread me town looter

[superbowl9]

Unfortunately nero i think you are allowing stanley to look town here

But if we go with fwesnid Who nero just opposed for like no reason that flip will help us figure out nero for sure and in turn a lot of other stuff. Fwesnid is good for info and LAL even if you dont see scumminess

[superbowl9]

Also maybe ralph is actually competent he just changed the letters on his keyboard around?

[superbowl9]

If theres 1 thing i hate it’s people bailing from a wagon for bs reasons. Finish your wagons properly ppl. Although im totally fine if we just move over to stanley.

72 why are you still scumreading me when you initially did so because you couldn’t understand what i said?

Superbowl = Scum case:

64 Can't really nail exactly, but this post's tone pings me. Just doesnt sound like its coming from a town perspective.
Who gives too hoots what is "correct" or not.

152 Why is anything more than LAMIST required in the early phase of day 1? If !townNBEE had any further reads as to why Bell
might be scum he would've outed them. Feels super forced and unnatural.

This post is enough for a kick on its own.

LAMIST is a subjective quality for a post to have. One person can see LAMIST as much worse than another person, or yet another will not even see LAMISTing at all. So although one is justified scumreading from LAMIST, you are just as justified dismissing it as not LAMIST. Me and Norway were both online and I wanted to try to see where he was coming from with his Bell read, since I didn't see anything bad in his ISO and didn't really agree with the LAMIST accusation. So I asked if he had anything else, he said no, I said cool. What's weird about this? Norway also seems to agree it was a normal interaction so not sure where you (and others) come in off the top ropes saying it's so forced unless you're accusing us of ST.

346
"I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw
Risk/reward of being that active this early in the game is not very favorable"

He is clearlly saying he doesnt think scum is likely to be active because it is high risk low reward.
Even if this is true, who says scum plays "optimally" 100% of the time?
Speaks to a scum-frame-of-mind too.

LOL scum state of mind - you saying scum might not play optimally is the same level of scum mindset indication, which is 0%. True, scum doesn't always play optimally, but the top 5 at that time were competent enough to the point where hand-waving it as sub-optimal play doesn't really work, you'd have to say it's a strategy. But the fact is even if you're right that it's a good scum strat to be high activity in the early stages of a large, that makes me wrong, not scummy. So I don't really know why you've seized this one statement from me as the ultimate scumslip lol

452
"Yes that's what I said. You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO??? We've been at each other's throats"

COMPLETELY misreads what I'm saying. Either intentionally misreads or simply doesnt care enough to try and decipher my intent.
Scummy either way.

Can you just not read? Everyone else seems to get it at this point and I've clarified it several times for you but one last time here you are: 645, 771, 953

[superbowl9]

eh...

I think a Glitch flip would say more about me but even then the "if X flips scum/town then that means Y is scum/town" arguments are bad.

but that's not enirely accurate. I said I didn't like how town looter fence sat on him then voted him. I've looked @ his ISO a few times and I'm just not seeing him as scummy. Why should I be voting him?

I think a glitch town flip would actually say very little about you, since you very easily (almost probably) are just town with a bad target/case of tunnelling. Glitch being scum would give you town points, although a bus for early towncred is not impossible here. However I don't really think a glitch flip really says a lot about anyone else in the game.

I usually agree that info flip arguments are bad but for the fwesnid wagon I kinda just chose them semi-randomly out of the lower post count section of players. For you to disagree with that wagon so strongly and it to flip red I think would seriously shade you. However if it goes green that gives you real townpoints because it's such an easy ML to go along with. This would also tell us about me, town looter, Reaver, everyone who had some type of reaction to the wagon before my it would be a good info flip post.

You don't have to vote if you don't want to but I just see nothing getting done by that slot and awkward post timing with 1265

Pedit: here you are Cain I was working on that one and ya sniped

[superbowl9]

Yeah I could have phrased that better, it's not like you have no reason to oppose it but the reason is small enough to the point scum could easily make it up as an offhand reason not to vote their buddy

[superbowl9]

I'll save you some reading, he's wrong and town and glitch counter tunnelled and is also town

[superbowl9]

Because you trust my every word even though I dont like your playstyle

[superbowl9]

They realize that glitch is not happening because not enough people scumread him

[superbowl9]

Because you're not getting glitch done today, you might SR the slot but not enough do for an elim especially after a PR claim

[superbowl9]

Because you're not getting glitch done today, you might SR the slot but not enough do for an elim especially after a PR claim

Scum can easily claim PR.
If we never lynch PR claims then we’d never get a lynch on scum D1 period because any mafia that’s run up can just use an easy "get out if lynch D1" card by shittily softing a PR role.

Yes and yes, that's kinda the point, scum is forced to claim something that will force their death at some point (unless scum wifoms with nks)

[superbowl9]

The thing i don’t get is, if we all think his claim was fake.

I don't. I never scumread glitch. Pretty sure many here feel similar, don't speak for everyone on this.

[superbowl9]

you had a reason for not wanting to vote Fwesnid but if he flips scum then it shades you!

Yeah I think you would agree your reason was not the strongest, hence why it's more indicative.

[superbowl9]

Also, his argument that Fwesnid is more telling than Glitchs flip seems p odd to me. While being wrong about a flip doesn't necessarily denote mafia anyone that had any kind of defense against a Glitch lynch would, FMPOV at least, look like a possible Glitch buddy. SB sorta premtivly agruing against that seems a bit sketch to me.

Yes ik this but like read my post lol. Glitch is someone who is controversial and polarizing, fwesnid is not.

[superbowl9]

I genuinely believe Nero is scum because of the arguments I've presented so far, but I also understand that I may be SR'ing him so hard cause I'm just pissed that he is tunneling me so hard.

I don't get this. You're pissed at him "tunneling you" but you believe he is scum at the same time? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
VOTE: Glitch

VOTE: Nor-boy

Voting a claimed PR on D1 is just...

I never really understood NBEE reason for voting glitch in the first place it felt like he was just sheeping nero but that might just be because I am TRing glitch, still having a hard time reading NBEE but think leaning on the side of scum so might consider this

Look at it this way: Norwee was on Glitch early on. Glitch was put @L-2 (someone claimed it was L-1) and asked to claim. Norwee then promptly unvoted (!!). Why unvote someone who were asked to claim before they do? ("I don't want him quick!hammered isn't really convincing me). Then he waits for the guy to actually claim an unspecified PR and decides to vote him? So if he had claimed VT; Norwee would have looked ealsewhere??? Then he demands a FULL claim?? I mean, this is SCUM very much PR hunting behaviour.

Also can you respond to this Norway? I found it very compelling

[superbowl9]

100 % agreed about the last quotes. It's ridiculous, and no matter if some people like Norwee think that Nero is in his town meta, Nero is at the very least wrong here, if he's not just scum. I guess the potential attempt Nero made to reevaluate Glitch is rather towny here, though.

Yeah I think Nero is just wrong a lot but wrong=/=scum

[superbowl9]

GLITCH IS NOT HAPPENING HE CLAIMED PR

NERO/NORWAY ARE NOT HAPPENING THEY HAVE TOO MUCH CLOUT

Can we stop wasting time voting useless people and consolidate before the deadline hits? Either join fwesnid or join a wagon going somewhere

[superbowl9]

If you think quickhammering is a scumclaim (which it is), why would you be averse to it? You get a scum caught and get your scumread (who apparently you won't believe a PR claim from so waiting for claim is meaningless anyways) elimmed.

[superbowl9]

Yes but when town does it they should be policy elimmed. Don't get me wrong I get where you're coming from, I hate when people respect claims too much, bail on wagons, allow anti-town behavior to go unpunished, etc. But if you want a fullclaim don't jump off the wagon at L-1. If you want a claim you have to put some level of respect on said claim, or else it doesn't matter. It just seems like you want your cake for free, to have it, eat it, and then sell it for a profit

[superbowl9]

unvoting b4 a claim to is just pro-town play.

NO

Because then this exact shit happens - just punish quickhammering if it happens and people will learn real quick not to do it because it's an auto-elim for you tomorrow.

[superbowl9]

GLITCH IS NOT HAPPENING HE CLAIMED PR

This leads to:
a) we lynch VT
b) no lynch
c) random lynch without claim
+ we make a small rolecall.

If we hit a second PR claim we can evaluate if we elim between one of them or try again. But running up the first PR claim on D1 is just such poor strategy

[superbowl9]

sb, why is Glitch town? if you've already said words can you just link me?

Nothing they've done specifically just the counter tunneling and terrible logic on both sides makes the whole thing seem very TvT

[superbowl9]

Btw kinda irrelevant but last day or 2 my read on superbowl has done an 180 from scum to hard towny

Can't say the same for you buddy

[superbowl9]

NO

Because then this exact shit happens - just punish quickhammering if it happens and people will learn real quick not to do it because it's an auto-elim for you tomorrow.

I mean, yes it happens alot as scum and they usually get lynched the next day but unvoting to prevent one is a pretty common pratice around here.

ik it is common but it's probably one of the most annoying common practices of all time - you're just opening the door for your wagon to fall apart. Common =/= good

[superbowl9]

What do you even think my case on Glitch is?

If you want me to be honest I don't even remember anymore. I read through your interaction and 100% understood both arguments and found them both to be awful yet verbose. Neither was worth commenting on and raising the shitstorm even more so not really a surprise the args weren't worth remembering for my brain. I can go back and give you a quick high level summary if you really want but idrc if you scumread glitch for the present moment so not trying to convince you otherwise

pedit: if that ever happens I will kiss your gangly alien feet stanley

[superbowl9]

But okay we can go off in the woods as much as we want - we need to consolidate for today and nero and norway you are big parts of that. Fwesnid or 72 let's get these wagons going

[superbowl9]

Fair enough

[superbowl9]

Lmao I wanna see ralph make it to lylo and determine our fate

[superbowl9]

So vote Fwesnid if you think he's scum.

I never said I thought him to be scum. He's certainly not doing anything towny though, so I'm considering doing it. Still dislike how you're making normal things look scummy or wrong (I said I liked the idea of an infolynch on him, and you just go "vote him if you think he's scum").

VOTE: Glitch
Nero is not happening today. Who else do you want to lynch?

72offstuit

You know, the low activity poster who is actually scummy as opposed to just convenient.

I dont think 72 is scummier than fwes but wouldnt mind an elim there

[superbowl9]

Can I get a vc?

I dont think weve got any closer to consolidating, norway is the biggest waste of all time he will flip green and only the wrong people will take heat for it

[superbowl9]

No because glitch will be a prime target tomorrow and I don't think his norway vote is really an extension of his Cain complex and A50 who led the push I think is also justified but just wrong.

[superbowl9]

Also titus can you make your vote useful please

[superbowl9]

A50 replaced in recently and thought you were obvscum not really tunneling imo

[superbowl9]

Okay yeah but 1 anecdote saying he *could* be scum and do this isn't really convincing, he could just as easily be town

[superbowl9]

You're going in a circle -
"He's tunneling he needs to do something"
I give you reasons why he would do that
"Well I did that as scum one game too"
That's not really evidence
"Well he's tunneling and needs to do something"

[superbowl9]

That you're going in a circle lol

[superbowl9]

Me and Norway had an argument, several ppl called it forced and i got wagoned, glitch and Nero had a big fuss about them both being wrong about each other leading to a glitch wagon to claim, he softclaimed PR. Then the glitch wagon fell apart and we started wagoning fwesnid, kinda where we are now.

[superbowl9]

We have 1 day to deadline. Can we stop trying to throw votes around and consolidate on a wagon? At this rate we will end up with a no elim

[superbowl9]

You can't expect everyone out of 21 players to log on every day. If you're not joining a top wagon you're being anti-town

[superbowl9]

Wagons can build quickly if we want then too.

We have no time. To assume 10 other players will agree with and hop onto your vanity wagon with 1 day and little convincing is just delusional. We need to consolidate. If you wanted to elim someone else you had 9 days to make cases

[superbowl9]

You can't expect everyone out of 21 players to log on every day. If you're not joining a top wagon you're being anti-town

There are ten people not on the top wagon. Half the town is anti-town. That explains much about this gamestate.

I'm null on Glitch and Norway. They both have scummy moment but could both easily be town acting stupid. I have totally death tunneled posters (and most time they're fellow townies).

Glitch already claimed so VOTE: NorwayEE

Yes, voting some random player who won't be elimmed this close to deadline is anti-town. Doesn't matter if every single player in the game is all voting a distinct player, they would all be anti-town.

[superbowl9]

I'd rather get a flip regardless. Voting A50 doesn't get us any closer to one

Also it seems like you're becoming option 2 so its probably in your best interest to push fwe or offsuit even as a compromise

[superbowl9]

Just don’t claim some nonsense like i’m a CW if this flips town. Because i don’t even want this lynch.

Don't worry I will strike down anyone who slanders you such
But also dont take too much credit if I caught scum for you

[superbowl9]

Glad to see another addition to the cult of ralph

[superbowl9]

I’ll go with bell on this
VOTE: lapsa

Also gonna put my i told you so for we should be consolidating here, wouldve been bad for all this to happen even 12 hrs from now

[superbowl9]

Nvm refuted by mod

[superbowl9]

VOTE: 72offsuit I don't like A50 wagon also am probly not gonna post for the rest of the day

[superbowl9]

A50/Norway is the new Cain/Glitch

And i lied about not posting

[superbowl9]

Is there some consensus between the 72/lapsa people? Because if so we can just let A50 Norway and co omgus till the end of the day and come together for an elim with a chance of hitting scum

[superbowl9]

I like you and your dowels iks

[superbowl9]

How the hell do you go from "I am sure this is scum and take responsibility if he flips green" to "Oh, I misunderstood a joke. Gonna unvote now" in under 12 hours?

Nah he was saying he thought he saw a scumslip, but was unsure if it was something else PR related so didn't want to call attention to it, then realized that he misread it and it was pr related so unvoted. That's what I understood it as anyway

[superbowl9]

I think maybe A50 just doesn't like usernames that start with N?

[superbowl9]

I find it difficult to believe scum would be given a night 3 or day 4 ability, but that's an opinion from an uninformed person (I think this is like my second closed setup ever played - most of my games have been newbies)

There are definitely two different styles or approaches or whatever you want to call it in this game.

There's the Stanley/Glitch/TL approach, and the Nero/Hiraki/NBoyEE approach. I wouldn't say one is more or less scummy in the context of this game, they are just different. That said, I know I have a bias here and am probably over TRing the former, and over SRing the latter.

1 of these things is not like the other why is hiraki in there?

[superbowl9]

I’ve never been more town in my life and people still find excuses to scumread me, it’s amazing.

If this is your towniest state maybe you’ve had too many scumgames lmao

[superbowl9]

Find me a scumgame where i’m this engaged and active.
You can’t, i left my scumrange a long time ago.

Usually doing town things and then pointing back at the thing you just did and saying “aha see that! I’m so town” is not a good strategy chief

[superbowl9]

Spoiler: blah

Im no, that’s just an bonus. I scumread A50 for other reasons, i thought you were paying attention to the game?

Why don't you lay all your cards on the table? Tell everyone you are confused and can't tell if I am a PR or not, because I didn't bother crumbing my role as I replaced in. Your confusion is now serious because you don't know whether you should shoot me (or at the very least RB me) or not. You don't want to risk it because I SR you and thus EVEN IF you are not eliminated there's a chance I might return a guilty on you if I am an investigative, but if I am not then you need not worry about that. In short, you hope that you could get me to claim before the day is over, directly or indirectly.

Dude you can have delusions about my supposed worry about PR's as much as you want, it won't come true.

THANK YOU.

This response

confirms

Norwee

knows

I am TOWN. Otherwise, I wouldn't be "delusional". I would be "faking".

I really was expecting more than: "Aha!! Gotcha! You used a word!" to explain why you're so aggressive and confident, but i guess that was too much to ask for.

Honestly, I don't see why scum!A50 uses so weak arguments against Norwee here. Would he seriously expect that post to convince

anyone

? He's experienced, he should know that this post only discredits his case if he's scum. I tend to see this as town being wrong rather than as scum trying to pull a terribly crappy mislynch.

"this is a bad scum strategy and he knows it => he must be town"
WIFOM

WIFOM =/= wrong tho
To say he’s just as likely to deploy a knowingly poor scum strat as scum as to deploy a good strat as scum just to metagame is incorrect

[superbowl9]

Hey norway i can try to explain A50’s logic on this so we can all be a nice happy family if you want

[superbowl9]

I mean if he doesn't want to hear it I'm just preaching to the choir and I also would prefer him to be online somewhat close to when I post it

Also it's not really directed at the rest of town, more at Norway specifically because I feel he is really the driving force behind the wagon

[superbowl9]

Bet post incoming

[superbowl9]

Okay so A50 comes in and starts reading, and remember when we brought Glitch to L-2 there was some funky stuff with the VCs and L- announcements, which you can see pings A50 to take interest in at 1035.

This, imo, brings something that usually probably wouldn't be push-worthy, the somewhat common practice of unvoting at L-1, into something worth pressing a bit in A50's mind. Hence 1039, 1048, and 1050.

The issue is dropped (lending to my thought that A50 thinks this is just barely pushworthy cause of weird circumstances), until 1129 where IKS unvotes for pretty poor reasoning. A50 sees this and gets more suspicious, since he was just pushing behavior like this. Thus he lumps in Norway with IKS in 1134. This is all just the foundations of a scumread starting to build on Norway, for understandable reasons but not 100% sound logic (understandably) due to the abnormal situation.

Then Glitch comes in and softclaims because he's no longer at L-1 (understandable still), and Norway says no

r

way and votes because he wants a hardclaim (also very understandable) and thinks we are giving too much respect to D1 PR claims (a contentious issue that kinda splits the community). So you can see that while Norway is totally justified, if you're already scumreading him AND disagree that D1 PR claims get too much respect, then this behavior raises big scumflags.

At this point, A50 is fully leaned into a Norway scumread, and Norway, who understandably thinks he has done nothing wrong, sees what he thinks is a poor case against him and scumreads that, coming from someone who he knows has experience. A little bit of OMGUS and adhom from 1411-1424 seals the deal and now you are at each others' throats.

A50's 1409 pretty much paints out the train of thought I've been describing, which is why I found it compelling and asked Norway for his response in 1564. Norway just responds as though it's a non-issue, which gave me the impression he didn't see any wrong-doing from his perspective, and, upon looking back, that's justified. It's just that these specific circumstanes combined together to create something bigger than normally would've happened.

[superbowl9]

Yes as i said your interaction is the new Nero v Glitch, TvT

[superbowl9]

VOTE: 72offsuit I don't like A50 wagon also am probly not gonna post for the rest of the day

Not a bad piece of work for someone that wasn't planning to post anymore today.
So where are you suggesting we all vote today? Still wanting 72Offsuit?

Today is tomorrow for me now

I’m not exactly thrilled with 72 but i think its our best option, stanley has been tried a lot but seems pretty elim resistant for now. 72 seems like a good compromise for me but i could also go for a NPOM, I don’t see myself getting a solid read on that slot for maybe the whole game b/c of playstyle

[superbowl9]

The thing I don't want to happen now tho is that the A50 wagon falls apart and since Norway no longer really has a counterwagon he ends up getting elimmed for doing something pro-town but anti-him. Can we not have that happen

[superbowl9]

Thank you brotha

[superbowl9]

@superbowl: OK. I'll drop the Norwee push for now, but I want it to go on the record that this is against my better judgement still.

Yeah I targeted my post more at the norway side of things, I figured another part of it was you had a lock scumread so didnt see a need to do much else except push it. I wont hold it against you if you wanna wait till D2 to really do anything

[superbowl9]

one thing that i have been able to digest from reading the last few pages is that jackson is v towny

HARD disagree

[superbowl9]

VOTE: Siteflaking

I feel like making a completely arbitrary move with the deadline frozen.

I think we need to start wagoning prod dodgers. I get the feeling that town are apathetically subbing out or ripping each other's heads off.

So that vote was a pointless attempt at looking like you're generating activity

*shrug* I haven't read. Don't care to but the wagonomics tell me we have either a lying PR problem or a scum let everyone else duke it out problem.

This is why i don't like your playstyle. I feel you hide behind not reading and VCA to obscure your alignment when clearly you have the capacity to play well in an AI way

[superbowl9]

Just a style thing, rather than a grouping of opinions. I guess I would call it slow and considered (and maybe inexperienced, but don't know about stan) vs. short and sharp (and experienced). Hiraki fits into the latter category.

Okay makes sense

[superbowl9]

^^^^

[superbowl9]

Also Lord ralph has decreed that 72 is town maybe we should keep them alive

[superbowl9]

Hm maybe glitch is scum

Whatever I'll figure it out tomorrow

[superbowl9]

ill hop on VOTE: Titus

[superbowl9]

if the norway wagon happens and flips town we are lynching off of that wagon, no questions asked.

Absolute facts cain

[superbowl9]

Frick titus is a PR
I dont see a reason to elim any of the 3 today - they will confirm sooner or later (fwes might be red w/ that role but whatever we’ll probly find out if thats the case anyways).
VOTE: 72offsuit

[superbowl9]

Also we have ACTUALLY 1 day to deadline so pls no more vanity bs

[superbowl9]

1 more PSA: ralph’s divine power knows no limits

[superbowl9]

I feel you on 72 bell but i think its really just a compromise that gets rid of a slot which is playing pretty poorly anyways. Personally think the scum chances are decent despite the lowkey town appearance but even if you don’t its not the worst wagon atm

[superbowl9]

Don't hammer without claim from now on. We have a vigi and don't want to random lynch him/her.

this is IIoA

No it is not

[superbowl9]

And yeah sorry glitch but I think we’re gonna need you to do that plan you were talking about, if you are in fact a PR. You’re already pretty lucky to make it to today.

[superbowl9]

Norway why is glitch more likely to be scum here than titus?

[superbowl9]

I +1 a stanley wagon after glitch comes back

[superbowl9]

My role can be confirmed but it is preferable not to give the scum information on how. I know that's pretty WIFOMy as well but I don't intend to reveal the full details of my role until I'm at L1. Hopefully we don't have to go there because there are better options on the table.

VOTE: Glitch
Lets get this over with, also no quickhammers this time please

[superbowl9]

I'd argue Glitch is worse. But ok. If not Fwesnid or Glitch, then who?

Titus??? Your last few posts have been if not straight scummy definitely crazy

[superbowl9]

Why would scum not kill Nero? It is an advantageous way to get D2 townies to turn on me and Stanley. That would be the most smart move. Why is it scummy to recognize that that setup is not a bad idea for scum?

Because that's not the reason they kill Nero. I can say "they shouldve killed fwesnid because that would make people turn on me, eliminating a PR and a good townie!" but that makes no sense for obvious reasons. They killed Nero because he was widely townread, high activity, and I don't remember where but i believe he hinted at being a PR somewhere.

[superbowl9]

Does it not make sense that scum killing Nero is intended to set up a lynch on me or glitch?

That’s such a scummy thing to say.
Kill person suspecting you and then say: "it’s a set up!"
Classic.

Well you're either scum and this is your plan or you're being manipulated hard rn

LMAO manipulated into scumreading you after he scumread you for the whole D1

[superbowl9]

NPOM you are a very useful sheep to have around. Or I'm wrong about this whole game and you're scum

[superbowl9]

Yes if youre town

[superbowl9]

My role can be confirmed but it is preferable not to give the scum information on how.

Can we not wagon this, please?

Sorry I'm with Norway on this one. No soft stuff after 4 claims and an NK yesterday.

[superbowl9]

What's the case on Stanley other than Nero SR him?

ISO him, he doesn't really produce content just sits back and calls out "sucky" posts

[superbowl9]

The way I see it right now there is a high chance of scum in Glitch/fwes/titus. If glitch can claim and confirm we instantly narrow it to fwes/titus. Until that point fwes/titus are both loud (if fwes gets a confirmation which is very weird that he hasn't already), so Glitch who just softed some super strong PR that'll kick in D4 just trust me bro is the person.

[superbowl9]

^I do admit this might be flawed though. I can see an argument for why we should delay further on glitch, but rn the reasoning above makes the most sense to me