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[Frogsterking]

here is town fire doing a reread

Spoiler:

ok well im just gonna talk to myself for a bit if no one is around

what i wanted to say earlier in my post that my phone ate, was that in the previous large, where datisi and skitter were both scum, i mostly townread them off play, but there were certain things that did hit as scummy for me. moreso for skitter, but datisi had a couple. and all of them came down to when the things that they chose to push, the things they chose to back off of, the way they positioned themselves, just felt a little... off. there were plenty of posts where they were logical, rational, hitting genuine emotional beats, productive, solving, etc etc, all the things a good town should do. and those mostly did a good job of masking the moments that seemed off and made them feel insignificant. but those moments were still there.

i know thats a sample size of 1, but i also did feel similar things from skitter in panic room d1, so im rolling with it as a model of what i should be looking for when scumhunting Good Players (tm), cause i don't have any better ideas when there aren't any flips.

so i reread the game and here's a mostly unordered and maybe incomplete list

1. skitter backing off dwlee in 182. i was not satisfied at all with dwlee's answer here and i don't think skitter should have been either

2. skitter being the "reasonable party" in the prism vs ari debate is something ive seen scum skitter do. but i have a feeling its just something that skitter does. still noting it bc it is something i thought about

3. prism's switch on ari in 155. i know she's said recently that she thinks that would have been bad scumplay for her to do that, but idk the latching on thing here just kiiinda feels like the way in which scum could look for a weak spot to attack and tunnel. town can do that too obviously, and i think prisms reasoning later in the argument are fair and reasonable and well-stated, but there's something about the initial trigger that i don't quite buy. my heart isn't in this one tbh but i have told myself that im not supposed to listen to my heart here

4. vp's early aggressive push on skitter is just... hm. kinda reminds me of monkey in the recent panic room game, where he's plausibly hiding behind an exaggerated push "for the sake of pressure" because then you don't have to look genuine while doing it. hm hm. like it feels like it's too... out of the playbook? if that makes any sense? and something that someone would likely want to pull out if they're having trouble fitting in and vibing

5. my hearts not in this one either. shuichi in 222 and voting dwlee soon after. idk if i can really count this one bc i agree with it so it doesn't really feel off but... i can very easily see a world where scum would sheep me on a somewhat under the radar read. and people try to pocket me like an average of 10 times per game so i should probably be wary of that possibility

6. vp 255 just doesn't feel like vp picking on things that i think town vp should genuinely care about picking on

7. 275 mostly noting this for later if we get some flips. but it does feel like dwlee is realigning their reads to be looking for scum in the generally popular scumreads. this isn't an inherently scummy thing to do but it is a potentially significant positioning move

8. datisi giving a teamread of skitter/vp but not wanting to givr any sort of a read on vp individually felt a little off to me

9. actually kinda not loving datisi's push on skitter in general here on a reread, although it didn't bother me the first time. the things he's choosing as reasons don't quite feel like they match the tone of the push? god the more I type here the less i feel like these reads are useful or explained in any coherent way but im already committed

10. dwlee's switch on vp in 410 kinda stands out to me bc vp had just recently started making some more effort-y posts, but I don't think the posts were very good? maybe dwlee disagrees, but if they have tmi that vp is town, i think his posts would look townier than they are

11. prism with enchant as top townread in 422 is just strange imo. i don't think anyone is really obvtown here, so... maybe. mostly i just agree with all the points made by shuichi in 438



ok i got sleepy and this post is definitely already way longer than it should be. maybe ill continue this approach another time if i end up deciding it was useful

If there is justice in this world Shea will kick your butt for doing incomplete meta research like he did to me

[Frogsterking]

frog might be scum as well actually

im on like page 64 right after he replaced in tho so idk maybe these opinions change later

can you elaborate more on where/how you're seeing this?

i will but i want to at least see how d2 played out bc it's possible that my current thoughts are dumb

short version is i thought his entrance was a lot worse than i remembered, and the way vp and others treated it felt like he could fit into a scumteam. specifically the callout of skitter as towny seemed really fake and meant to try to imitate the town frog wild theories that people expect (but those are usually actually based in something, believe it or not)

fire just can't stop thinking about me

[Frogsterking]

does anyone want to chat to me about anything or should i just start isoing

Do you understand why I didn't want to wait so many IRL days for Menalque? It's not Pro Town to waste time and give preferential treatment to slots because they're our friends. Players get distracted and paranoid and lurk scum slip through the cracks.

[Frogsterking]

definitely on the side of this is explicitly S-S tho!!

alright well uh, it's unfortunate that you landed on the wrong conclusion so looking forward to seeing how you got there

I'm *very* much looking forward to seeing fire's case on you and I.

[Frogsterking]

does anyone want to chat to me about anything or should i just start isoing

Do you understand why I didn't want to wait so many IRL days for Menalque? It's not Pro Town to waste time and give preferential treatment to slots because they're our friends. Players get distracted and paranoid and lurk scum slip through the cracks.

mena is like 90% either getting limmed today or getting shot tonight

Fireistroll confirmed sir. Suggesting Menalque has a 10% to live.

[Frogsterking]

I understand where you were coming from but I don't really regret what I said

Gotcha

[Frogsterking]

the 10% is if he doesn't get limmed today and then scum have some block or protect for csf which is why they let her live

but in that case he still gets limmed soon after anyway so

Where's your case on GL and I, fire? It might help if you put your phone down and went to a library so you can use a keyboard to type it out.

[Frogsterking]

Do you think frog/Mena are partnered, and he is hard bussing Mena?

i want to read more before i know what i think on this. but currently, yea i kinda do

Oh wait I can't tell if I'm waiting on a frog/GL case or a frog/Mena case

[Frogsterking]

Do you think frog/Mena are partnered, and he is hard bussing Mena?

i want to read more before i know what i think on this. but currently, yea i kinda do

Oh wait I can't tell if I'm waiting on a frog/GL case or a frog/Mena case

all 3 maybe

are there only 2 scum left? i thought we were assuming 5 total

if there's 2 that changes things maybe

Uh oh TMI existence of Dann the traitor

Pedit 1

40% D1 hit rate, new record

[Frogsterking]

but actually limmin through the gamma town readers (Ausuka) and the ones that didn't really comment on Gamma (fire) is prob not a bad strat

Who else was townreading Gamma?

It was scamper mainly

[Frogsterking]

our goddess says that we are supposed to flip fire today!

oh shoot I forgot about this and actually unironically support it

1986 still a good post imo

p-edit: I also townread Gamma

Thought provoking

[Frogsterking]

Dude Shea you have yet to vote out any scum, you're getting carried right now.

[Frogsterking]

7652 is going for the scum win rate rather than the funniest Scum Post award, unfortunately. I like to think there's some irony in that going purely for a case that might sound reasonable (to anyone not paying attention) rather than taking a shot for something entertaining, fire cost themselves some believability points.

[Frogsterking]

I still think this is bullshit somewhere so I need to do VCA four fucking times.

I'm pretty sure this is just a solved game. Is there any VCA related reason to doubt Menalque + fire?

[Frogsterking]

I still think this is bullshit somewhere so I need to do VCA four fucking times.

I'm pretty sure this is just a solved game. Is there any VCA related reason to doubt Menalque + fire?

Haven't done it yet.

Did Nero claim?

I don't think so

[Frogsterking]

The Masons are real based on my behavioral analysis. Their reads list D1 when aggregated together produced a 100% accurate Town core (assuming my read on Dease was tinfoil.) Past constructing a Town core based on an aggregate of their reads, they have not been successful in pinpointing mafia. We don't need any big fights or crazy theories we need someone to pinpoint the 2 (maybe 3) mafia within like 4 slots which are likely to contain it. I think VCA is one of my weakest points but I tried to think about it a little bit and I think Obscure (Menalque) and fireisred will turn up as suspicious.

[Frogsterking]

I still think this is bullshit somewhere so I need to do VCA four fucking times.

I'm pretty sure this is just a solved game. Is there any VCA related reason to doubt Menalque + fire?

The fact that you've said this so many times with different people is so very frustrating.

Rawr I'm agitated now *kitty growls*

[Frogsterking]

I still think this is bullshit somewhere so I need to do VCA four fucking times.

I'm pretty sure this is just a solved game. Is there any VCA related reason to doubt Menalque + fire?

The fact that you've said this so many times with different people is so very frustrating.

If that's the kind of thing that bothers you then I can see why you stopped playing.

[Frogsterking]

(assuming my read on Dease was tinfoil.)

Frog can you explain when and why your Deas read shifted, you were scumreading him on/off a lot yesterday

Yeah I have to @Dann though at the same time:

asking people to use logic to explain emotion is... an interesting way of questioning people

I became stressed because we weren't killing Menalque and I perceived Dease to be obvscum whilst in that frame of mind.

Simple enough.

[Frogsterking]

Have you ever heard the story of the frog who croaked wolf?

Yes and I've also witnessed the story of Nope.

[Frogsterking]

The Masons are real based on my behavioral analysis. Their reads list D1 when aggregated together produced a 100% accurate Town core (assuming my read on Dease was tinfoil.) Past constructing a Town core based on an aggregate of their reads, they have not been successful in pinpointing mafia. We don't need any big fights or crazy theories we need someone to pinpoint the 2 (maybe 3) mafia within like 4 slots which are likely to contain it. I think VCA is one of my weakest points but I tried to think about it a little bit and I think Obscure (Menalque) and fireisred will turn up as suspicious.

Hi Frog

Gamma was in this so-called impenetrable town core you constructed

No he wasn't IIRC because Ydra didn't Town gamma (it was scamper) and it took 2 Towns to get included in the Town core. You should have known that before submitting 7758 (if you're Town.) If you're traitor then good job playing to your win con I guess.

[Frogsterking]

Dannflor BSing here:

The Masons are real based on my behavioral analysis. Their reads list D1 when aggregated together produced a 100% accurate Town core (assuming my read on Dease was tinfoil.) Past constructing a Town core based on an aggregate of their reads, they have not been successful in pinpointing mafia. We don't need any big fights or crazy theories we need someone to pinpoint the 2 (maybe 3) mafia within like 4 slots which are likely to contain it. I think VCA is one of my weakest points but I tried to think about it a little bit and I think Obscure (Menalque) and fireisred will turn up as suspicious.

Hi Frog

Gamma was in this so-called impenetrable town core you constructed

Dannflor caught BSing #1:

@Ari
@Dease
@Dats
@Nero
@Ausuka
@xoxelf

Can you guys confirm there's an up to date reads list in your iso? Please?

scamper

Nero Cain
fireisredsir
Aristeia

Ausuka
Datisi
xofelf
DeasVail

{

ydrasse

,

ausuka

, gamma emerald}
{frogsterking, marcistar,

nero cain

}
{

aristeia

, firebringer}
{

deasvail

,

xofelf

, guiltylion,

datisi

}

{hem, fireisredsir, obscure, vp baltar, dannflor}

{conmanmick, irrelephant}

THANK YOU BOTH OF YOU!!

The 6 names who were mutual Town reads of Ydra and scamper were all Town. They along with Ydra and scamper were the Town core. Gamma wasn't a part of the Towncore.

Why are you shading my slot in 7758, Dann? Am I the easiest point of attack left who is Town?

[Frogsterking]

but you did at one point attribute Gamma as town because they were towned by two lock towns

anyway, the point doesn't really matter

What. Your most recent tinfoil on my slot just face planted before it even began. It does matter that you failed a simple fact check lol

[Frogsterking]

yeah that was what stood out to me

he chose to scumread frogster with the most level 0 read you can read frogster's opening post

Pretty sure I scum read frogster for something similar the first time I played with them. I'm so out of the loop right now, but frogster is an acquired taste that can result in strong negative reactions at first, imo.

I did recently find this post again which is pretty janky and looks partnery with Frog imo, esp if town!Dann

Dann scumreads Frog over something HEM calls "level 0", and VPB jumps in to defend Dann by saying Frog is easily scumread - sneaky tacit defense of Frog, sneaky sneaky

the alternate explanation is this is a bid to pocket both Dann and Frog in one move, but is Frog really a slot that needs to be pocketed D1? why not just not get involved at all if town!HEM and town!Dann are fighting about Dann's scumread on town!Frog

I'm not sure how you read that as anything other than a failed attempt to pocket me.

[Frogsterking]

@whoever

I'm fine being mislimmed, it would be on par with the rest of your ability to actually get scum killed.

[Frogsterking]

Still not unvoting Menalque lmao

[Frogsterking]

I know this is not great and I'll probably be limmed anyway, but if you have to any questions, i can try to answer them

VOTE: csf

[Frogsterking]

Don't forget about Menalque 2morrow

[Frogsterking]

It's the Cat team. The Cat Burglar Mafia

[Frogsterking]

CLIMBIN IN YO WINDOWS, SNATCHIN YO PEOPLE UP

THEY GON FIIIIIIND YOU

[Frogsterking]

dunno if I still think Mena needs to be scum

who said that hem vs shea on shea entrance was absurdly theatrical, was that you scamper lol

Even better:



VS

[Frogsterking]

I guess Mena did live up to their Town meta of being insanely hard to mislim.

[Frogsterking]

CSF, readslist?

VOTE: CSF

I think for obvious reasons, I'm not outing precisely how I knew csf was lying

There's a Mailman, I knew it.

[Frogsterking]

dunno if I still think Mena needs to be scum

who said that hem vs shea on shea entrance was absurdly theatrical, was that you scamper lol

Even better:



VS

This was Cats vs Dogs by the way in case it went under anyone

[Frogsterking]

CSF, readslist?

VOTE: CSF

I think for obvious reasons, I'm not outing precisely how I knew csf was lying

There's a Mailman, I knew it.

Mailman DON'T OUT

[Frogsterking]

Mena's probably still scum though over Shea.

[Frogsterking]

Mena's probably still scum though over Shea.

Maybe. Probably.

[Frogsterking]

Mena's probably still scum though over Shea.

Maybe. Probably.

I don't feel motivated to sort between the two because either way I get my win and I get to push the Cat Burglar angle.

PEdit:



PURE GENIUS

Cat Burglar Aligned:

[Frogsterking]

Mena's probably still scum though over Shea.

Maybe. Probably.

I don't feel motivated to sort between the two because either way I get my win and I get to push the Cat Burglar angle.

PEdit:



PURE GENIUS

Cat Burglar Aligned:

*sweating nervously*

[Frogsterking]

Mena or shea after csf

And if that fails Dann

Was there anything about the VCA that was significant to you when making your assessment?

[Frogsterking]

Looks like VCA.

Honestly it would be super cool to be flipped for VCA yet again showcasing how its a garbage way of finding scum.

Also I will be extremely VLA this weekend as I decided to YOLO fly to NYC to catch the mets playoff series.

[citation needed]

Titus said the VCA was bad for Menalque not you.

Straw man fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man scum butt

[Frogsterking]

*initiates desperate scum spew for the 100th time this game*

Oh wait sorry I thought I was Shea for a second.

[Frogsterking]

like even just glancing at the last page should bring up some questions

it reads like you're playing dumb

I don't really play dumb as either alignment, really.

If I'm being dumb its because I'm dumb.

Good thing I created this handy visual for you:

Cat Burglar Aligned:

Now we can draw the "fe-line" on your dumb telling. There is no more excuse: we've caught you red-"pawed."

[Frogsterking]

*initiates desperate scum spew for the 100th time this game*

Oh wait sorry I thought I was Shea for a second.

Your cognitive dissonance when i am eventually flipped green is going to be the stuff of legends

Too much psych jargon, my mind is unable to "paw"cess what you're saying.

[Frogsterking]

wild how new info makes games more fun and maybe we should flip people instead of slogging through 100 pages on d1 and 120 pages on d2

D1 and D2 weren't the problem, D1 and D2 play (including the VP vig) are the reason scum are getting steam rolled.

[Frogsterking]

wild how new info makes games more fun and maybe we should flip people instead of slogging through 100 pages on d1 and 120 pages on d2

D1 and D2 weren't the problem, D1 and D2 play (including the VP vig) are the reason scum are getting steam rolled.

I find this suggestion otherwise pretty alarming and lacking in insight. I think it should be clear that the major mistakes for everyone including myself are clustered together on D3.

[Frogsterking]

Cat Burglar Aligned:

[Frogsterking]

If Titus thinks Shea is a misvig then it's probably fire. I'm probably going to continue lurking, it seems like chiming in periodically is an effective playstyle for me once the early game is complete.

VOTE: fire

[Frogsterking]

If Titus thinks Shea is a misvig then it's probably fire. I'm probably going to continue lurking, it seems like chiming in periodically is an effective playstyle for me once the early game is complete.

VOTE: fire

I don't get it, am I supposed to vote Shea or not? I think I misread Titus's post.

VOTE: Shea

[Frogsterking]

hardclaim Informed Townie, there are 7 scum in the game. you're welcome

What the fuck? How are we ever supposed to beat that? Like I know we got vigs, but triple masons and informed townie vs 7 groupscum?? That makes me not even want to play anymore.

[Frogsterking]

I'm tracker, Shea or fire killed whoever died last night.

[Frogsterking]

frogsterking

I also another tracker report:

The analysis on my slot went to nowhere last night.

[Frogsterking]

I want to hear more about how frog cooperated with the triple masons to produce a 100% accurate towncore which steamrolled the scum team. I liked that interpretation of events.

[Frogsterking]

Okay i hardclaim tracker + follower combined.

I targeted scamper and they visited nowhere good with a frog tunnel last night.

[Frogsterking]

I'm trying to claim but I'm *really sick* and need 60 hours before I can post it I swear

[Frogsterking]

I'm VT

[Frogsterking]

that said, scamper did specifically call this out as a Good Post form shea, so

Scamper has Frog Fever

[Frogsterking]

i guess that makes it not hard clearing but eh still

Can you explain the reasoning of how it's anti associated?

[Frogsterking]

Frogster, earlier in the game you were going on about how I’ve often been the “deepwolf” in scum games I’ve played and that seemed to be a big part of your suspicion on me. Why are you not concerned about me atm?

I got better at playing forum mafia since this game started. I can elaborate more if you want me too.

[Frogsterking]

i guess that makes it not hard clearing but eh still

Can you explain the reasoning of how it's anti associated?

I'm seeing this topic (associative tells) to be an area which leads otherwise sharp players to bad results.

[Frogsterking]

Frogster, earlier in the game you were going on about how I’ve often been the “deepwolf” in scum games I’ve played and that seemed to be a big part of your suspicion on me. Why are you not concerned about me atm?

I got better at playing forum mafia since this game started. I can elaborate more if you want me too.

Elaboration would probably be helpful because I’m not sure who is scum from here and you’re one of the possibilities

1) I don't think you have successfully pocketed many players which is what I think you would be focusing on as deepscum.

2) I saw Titus mentioned that you're probably Town due to VCA or something and I don't fully understand VCA tells but I'll sheep it. If the tell is that Obscure was tunneling you with their vote then I can understand that and I've townread people for that before.

3) think you do this tell a lot https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.5.29
and I've accepted it's NAI for you, but it also requires some effort to inhibit my instincts, which I'm improving at.

4) I believe my read on you was influenced by your read and vote on me OMGUS style, and I'm improving a little bit at seeing through that. Just a little bit.

[Frogsterking]

Frogster, earlier in the game you were going on about how I’ve often been the “deepwolf” in scum games I’ve played and that seemed to be a big part of your suspicion on me. Why are you not concerned about me atm?

I got better at playing forum mafia since this game started. I can elaborate more if you want me too.

Elaboration would probably be helpful because I’m not sure who is scum from here and you’re one of the possibilities

1) I don't think you have successfully pocketed many players which is what I think you would be focusing on as deepscum.

2) I saw Titus mentioned that you're probably Town due to VCA or something and I don't fully understand VCA tells but I'll sheep it. If the tell is that Obscure was tunneling you with their vote then I can understand that and I've townread people for that before.

3) think you do this tell a lot https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.5.29
and I've accepted it's NAI for you, but it also requires some effort to inhibit my instincts, which I'm improving at.

4) I believe my read on you was influenced by your read and vote on me OMGUS style, and I'm improving a little bit at seeing through that. Just a little bit.

5) I noticed there is a worse signal to noise ratio in your scum games than you're showing here, as in there's a tendency for you to get sidetracked away from the main point in your posts, which I now weight a little bit more heavily because I do think it's more likely to come from scum.

6) At one point in this game you said "i thought about it and i dont think frog would be likely to say my read is vindictive as scum" and I now townread those kinds of posts because I've noticed they're more likely to come from Town.

[Frogsterking]

Mena or shea after csf

And if that fails Dann

I want Frogster and fire based on my lunchtime eyeball. I know I said I should prod dodge but I can't.

This is kind of silly though. What changed between 7893 and 8097 that would increase the chances of my being scum? I can understand being in the PoE if you're looking at a wide range of suspects, but where was the tactical play applied by my slot? Also, what happened to Datisi's I-don't-think-frog-is-mechanically-capable-of-replicating-this-play-as-scum? It feels like group think is manifesting "scum equity" in my slot which doesn't exist.

I think it would be prudent to doublecheck why you second-guessed yourself after 7893 and make sure you aren't ruling anyone out for a bad reason or succumbing to a "it can't be this easy" mindset. I don't believe that I'm unable to be deducted from the kill pool when applying critical thinking.

[Frogsterking]

I think it would be prudent to doublecheck why you second-guessed yourself after 7893 and make sure you aren't ruling anyone out for a bad reason or succumbing to a "it can't be this easy" mindset. I don't believe that I'm unable to be deducted from the kill pool when applying critical thinking.

Rest assured none of what the masons produced on my slot here:

Spoiler:

frogsterking
- bad interactions with hem, defending him (4120, 4288) while having very few direct interactions with hem (s)
- the awkward read vpb had on frogster (d)
- 2593 is awful (s)
- hem did not interact with frogs at all (s)
- awful interactions with/around tweetie prior to her yeet - the awkward 5479, defending tweetie (5483), attacking deasvail (5504, 5509, 5514, 5520), BUT flipping back to tweetie right after scamper and dann vote her (5528) (s)
- that time scamper called out frogs for literally lying about eira's meta and nobody gave a shit (s)
- frogs being generous to tweetie/hem while not showing the same generosity to others eg. deas (s) (note: i am currently mulling over frog/mena interactions)

indicates critical thinking was applied at a level beyond a
"I don't like this, I don't like that" attitude.

[Frogsterking]

Rest assured none of what the masons produced on my slot here:

Spoiler:

frogsterking
- bad interactions with hem, defending him (4120, 4288) while having very few direct interactions with hem (s)
- the awkward read vpb had on frogster (d)
- 2593 is awful (s)
- hem did not interact with frogs at all (s)
- awful interactions with/around tweetie prior to her yeet - the awkward 5479, defending tweetie (5483), attacking deasvail (5504, 5509, 5514, 5520), BUT flipping back to tweetie right after scamper and dann vote her (5528) (s)
- that time scamper called out frogs for literally lying about eira's meta and nobody gave a shit (s)
- frogs being generous to tweetie/hem while not showing the same generosity to others eg. deas (s) (note: i am currently mulling over frog/mena interactions)

indicates critical thinking was applied at a level beyond a
"I don't like this, I don't like that" attitude.

Okay fine: I'll admit that Datisi's take demonstrated critical thinking. The rest of the takes provided by scamper are not good points.

[Frogsterking]

Also, what happened to Datisi's I-don't-think-frog-is-mechanically-capable-of-replicating-this-play-as-scum?

at some point, the amount of bad and pro-scum takes you've had on the game starts to outweigh that.

LMFAO

Hang on let's wait another 60 hours for Menalque and then hammer S_S, gg

VOTE: Datisi

[Frogsterking]

These fucking Masons

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Frogsterking

H-O-L-Y S-H-I-T

Rolling Mason is such a negative utility because it makes guys play like total brick heads

have fun winning D9 or whatever when you FINALLY kill all the scum

Thank goodness Menalque got fucking shot and Gamma exited so you guys stopped hard defending scum

[Frogsterking]

Also, what happened to Datisi's I-don't-think-frog-is-mechanically-capable-of-replicating-this-play-as-scum?

at some point, the amount of bad and pro-scum takes you've had on the game starts to outweigh that.

THIS IS PURE TILT CONFIRMED FOR ACTIONS WHICH YOU CAUSED, GENIUS. IF IM MECHANICALLY INCAPABLE IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW BAD YOU THINK MY TAKES ARE.

AHHHHHHHHHGHGTYJCGDCKBVFNK

[Frogsterking]

Also, what happened to Datisi's I-don't-think-frog-is-mechanically-capable-of-replicating-this-play-as-scum?

at some point, the amount of bad and pro-scum takes you've had on the game starts to outweigh that.

You're lucky I didn't roll Vig because I would NK you to speed this game up

[Frogsterking]

[Frogsterking]

i don't see how my actions forced you into defending hem or tweetie, but go off i guess

[Frogsterking]

[Frogsterking]

Rolling Mason is such a negative utility because it makes guys play like total brick heads

[Frogsterking]

A tiny coyote or grey fox thing just ran right by my window with a squirrel hanging out if its mouth

[Frogsterking]

This animal and I stared each other down while it ran by my window with a squirrel hanging out of it's mouth

[Frogsterking]

Shea are you like a mega athlete or something IRL

[Frogsterking]

What does that even mean

It's a pretty straightforward question.

[Frogsterking]

What does that even mean

It's a pretty straightforward question.

It's not. I don't know what a mega athlete is.

You're sort of a universal gamer FMPOV and seem to strive to do well at all of them. Do you apply a similar mindset to athletic stuff?

[Frogsterking]

What does that even mean

It's a pretty straightforward question.

It's not. I don't know what a mega athlete is.

You're sort of a universal gamer FMPOV and seem to strive to do well at all of them. Do you apply a similar mindset to athletic stuff?

I should have said mega gamer rather universal gamer to make the analogy more clear about what I'm asking.

[Frogsterking]

I don't have very many athletic pursuits. I did when I was younger. I'm in a bowling league but I'm pretty bad.

I don't really play video games either.

It kind of just sounds like you're asking if I'm very competitive and the answer to that is yes?

Okay. I was asking because despite how competitive you are everyone burns out after a while and I feel like you would have burned out by now if you are scum.

PEdit

You're in luck then because I'm making a fairly nuanced point. It takes a lot of energy to manufacture all these lies at the rate you would be doing if you are group!scum. I get that lying can become autopilot after a while but it still requires metabolizing glucose and increases stress on the central nervous system for most people AFAIK.

I don't think you've played a bunch of mafia games either recently based on your comments about "coming out of retirement" so it's not like your scum play is likely to be at its peak here.

If you were some marathon runner as one of your hobbies I might be more inclined to think differently. You're saying that you aren't and didn't understand the context of my question so I'm inferring you're telling the truth and therefore are incapable of executing your play in this game as scum.

[Frogsterking]

actually @Frog nvm I just went back and checked and I had forgotten you self-voted in KTANE. Which was maybe a slightly different situation since you knew you had just done an extremely anti-town play, but I guess does give a basic precedent to being willing to sac yourself under fire.

still, I'm having a hard time understanding why you had the reaction you did. Why did Datisi suspecting you cause you a reactive response like that?

I'm not answering your stupid questions. Your frog case is irredeemably bad if you're Town. If you're scum then good job I guess.

What's fire at right now?

[Frogsterking]

The other thing that I find striking is there seems to me to be a marked difference in how frogster has approached today compared to other days in tone and substance. Previous days there were a lot of loud proclamations about who was scum and a lot of antagonism towards scum reads as well as sort of a brash confidence which seems to be completely gone today. He is definitely coasting. Unlike the other players who seem to have hesitation based off of being genuinely unsure of who could be scum out of the options frogster just doesn't seem to be thinking about it all that much.

I am kind of taken with that post that dannflor called town from frogster because something I try to do a lot is listen to people when they talk about things that they think about wrt others alignment because frequently they take those observations with their self as a baseline. Frogster said he thought I might be town because I haven't "burned out." But it seems like he himself has burned out a bit here.

Recency bias. I'm burned out because this Town is fucking annoying not because I'm lying lmao

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: fireisred

Now it's hard to find the scum because a handful of you look like scummy weirdos with your shitty frog cases. I remember skimming the thread while I was lurking out and thinking fire looked like deepscum derping around, flailing and waving their arms with some wacked out frog case and making clumsy attempts to pocket anyone who was wacked out enough to listen to her. Now from skimming the last couple of pages it's hard to tell the difference. I'm expecting it's fire and you guys hammer me because of skill issues and then fire gets shot/killed tomorrow. If it's not fire then idk they're hiding pretty well.

[Frogsterking]

Look at this it's ridiculous, is Dannflor scum or is fire scum? Whichever one of you is Town has skill issue

[Frogsterking]

I'm considering hammering myself. If I do then I want to make a tier list of who posted the weirdest shittiest frog case.

[Frogsterking]

we all have skill issue tbh

True

[Frogsterking]

The other thing that I find striking is there seems to me to be a marked difference in how frogster has approached today compared to other days in tone and substance. Previous days there were a lot of loud proclamations about who was scum and a lot of antagonism towards scum reads as well as sort of a brash confidence which seems to be completely gone today. He is definitely coasting. Unlike the other players who seem to have hesitation based off of being genuinely unsure of who could be scum out of the options frogster just doesn't seem to be thinking about it all that much.

I am kind of taken with that post that dannflor called town from frogster because something I try to do a lot is listen to people when they talk about things that they think about wrt others alignment because frequently they take those observations with their self as a baseline. Frogster said he thought I might be town because I haven't "burned out." But it seems like he himself has burned out a bit here.

This is probably mid tier because it's a really weird tinfoil that jumped off from something I said in a very wrong direction, divorced from all context in the game.

[Frogsterking]

I don't know looking back especially at the tweet > S_S > Mena wagons I feel like a lot of the stuff I was hard on fire for in my head applies to frogster worse in the end

like frogster hard hard defends scum so many times and then backs off as soon as he needs to

it is so much more agend-y

This is ranking high tier because Dannflor becomes trapped in his own mind, erasing all logic he's produced this game to replace it in an instant with a take that makes no sense.

[Frogsterking]

Where's fire's boring case from like a million pages ago? Fire did you post a crazier one or did you just keep desperately trying to pocket people today?

[Frogsterking]

trapped in my own mind is pretty accurate

Yes it looks you are, and it lead you down a very ineffective path that made no sense

[Frogsterking]

frog
- enters immediately with confident opinions and a townread on skitter. it's strange, but frog can pull things out of nowhere sometimes, so whatever
- jumps on gamma very quickly (1732 and is suddenly very confident, with 1754, 1767, 1781) but as soon as scamper expresses a townlean he backs off completely in 1794
- 1877 I feel like this kinda tmis vp as scum but he votes dann instead (2476)


- just in general seems like he wants to work within town consensus but p consistently pushes away from the scum in those poes and towards the town (clears gamma very quickly, 1986, 2593, 4115, 4126)
- also tends to have very odd trajectories on flipped scum, treats gamma and vp as confscum basically from entrance but pushes elsewhere, and is willing to drop the gamma read without much pushback. then does the same thing once MT and mena replace in, suddenly they're immediately lockscum


- datisi mentioned this in 3648 but it was a good point that's worth bringing up again. which is that vp's frog read and frog iso in 2150 was super awkward
- 3698 is an awful look, pushing against dann for some posting that in hindsight looks like it was p insightful, and that led to a push on obscure
- only uses of TvT are when referring to scum (1661 with vp, 2461 with gamma, 4278 with gamma)
- i think a lot gets excused by frog being frog. im guilty of the same. his posts about eira were really bad as rightfully called out by scamper on page 185/186, i feel bad for giving him a pass on it


- is gone for a long time but shows up as the deas counterwagon to obscure is building (oops, i kinda started that, my bad) and joins deas 5030. he did have deas as a prior scumread, but it is convenient if paired with obscure. 5104 is p weird as well
- frog jumps on tweet pretty quickly in 5264 which is good ig, but it's also weird bc he was previously arguing against gamma being scum? his most recent expressed read is 4278 and he's mostly been calling gamma town. the read flip is just so sudden and seems unsupported
- i also kinda think 5479 feels like he cares more about showing how his trajectory on gamma is explainable and not as sketchy as it looks, under the guise of supposedly helping CSF reach a read on gamma


- having just read the full context, 5982 is just complete bs, GL did not have an open trajectory to vote DV, and would have looked horrible doing so
- he again, just like on tweet, does a very sudden complete flip of read on mena, despite previously townreading obscure and pushing against attempts to wagon him (most recent reads in 5180 and 5314), starting around 5752, with zero trajectory to support this, and yet soon after this he is pounding the table and insisting that mena is lockscum. speaking of, funny thing i noticed here was that frog demanded mena claim way before scamper pulled his gambit. mena ignored him, but i think that could be why mena was aware of his slot's claim already, and why he was very nonplussed by the scamper gambit
- I think lately he's settled in to his usual scum play of just confidently stating opinions and dodging questions




i think a lot of frog's play is difficult to understand coming from town, which isn't necessarily scummy for him. what stands out most to me is the way that his reads flip completely in ways that feel informed and don't have any real support behind them, especially on gamma, MT, and mena.

This is ranking low tier, fire posted the driest most boring and unreadable frog case out of everyone. The only thing that keeps it from being very low tier is that the amount of effort which went into writing such drivel is crazy in and of itself.

[Frogsterking]

trapped in my own mind is pretty accurate

Yes it looks you are, and it lead you down a very ineffective path that made no sense

so am i scum or not???

In the moment I'm leaning fire because they're the only one so far who put effort into trying to make scum!frog appear logical.

[Frogsterking]

i do think you are being extremely generous to frog here tho

I will try to reset and relook at Frog for you

Look at you getting pocketed like a total...I don't know. You were doing fine before this Dann.

[Frogsterking]

frogsterking
- bad interactions with hem, defending him (4120, 4288) while having very few direct interactions with hem (s)
- the awkward read vpb had on frogster (d)
- 2593 is awful (s)
- hem did not interact with frogs at all (s)
- awful interactions with/around tweetie prior to her yeet - the awkward 5479, defending tweetie (5483), attacking deasvail (5504, 5509, 5514, 5520), BUT flipping back to tweetie right after scamper and dann vote her (5528) (s)
- that time scamper called out frogs for literally lying about eira's meta and nobody gave a shit (s)
- frogs being generous to tweetie/hem while not showing the same generosity to others eg. deas (s) (note: i am currently mulling over frog/mena interactions)

I can't tell if this goes in the mid or the high tier. On the one hand it's pure insanity and on the other hand it's mundane
"I SEE POST FROG MAKE. I SEE FROG SCUM. ME BIG TUNNEL HURR HURR."

[Frogsterking]

Who am I missing? Who are the clowns who decided to run up obvtown!frog?

[Frogsterking]

I dunno my heart is really not in fireisred, I think he's genuine and I think he's right about frog

it feels like a lot of stuff people are clearing Frog on amounts to singular Gamma posts and reasoning that "he wouldn't group his buddies this way" or something similar. And those types of points are far less substantial reason to think he's town than it's being credited. Whereas I feel fireisred has a lot more believable trajectories and doesn't feel like he's enacting an agenda with them. I know I've gotten pushback but it just feels bizarre to me that fireisred would write several posts of a giant ass solve & case on me (7651, 7652, 7653, and 7657) and then just immediately drop it when CSF gets CC'd. if I'm wrong I'm wrong, but I don't sense any kind of contingency plan for if CSF dies, I feel like actually fully reversing on his scumread on me when there was an unexpected buddy going down just isn't necessary and is kinda bad play when he's scum, it's ceding ground exactly when he needs ground. the biggest benefit would be if he did it with intent to exactly pocket me like this, but then I don't feel like he's appealing to me to save him now either

Uhhh.


Oh shit.

This one wins.

You win Guilty Lion. You have the most insane wacked out frog case. How did you do it? Holy shit.

This isn't even all of it is it, GL?

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Frogsterking

this one

That's just a naked vote

[Frogsterking]

Eh ok, I've been reevaluating on Frog myself and it really does slot a few things into place that weren't making sense for me (POE pool too narrow, finding scum on the Tweet Yeet). I kept wanting fire to be that scum for me but never felt like it made sense really and Frog being scum, especially based on his associatives, makes a lot of sense.

(assuming my read on Dease was tinfoil.)

Frog can you explain when and why your Deas read shifted, you were scumreading him on/off a lot yesterday

yeah

I think rereading this part of the game, Frog's vote on Tweet is the worst

the only other thing I wanted to call out, if we're in late game and I'm dead and gone and we're still trying to find last scum, I want this noted:

But also I think tweet is probably scum

so vote there?

so vote there?

I think I am already

the snap questioning by Nero, I could easily see it being town, but I could also see it being scum trying to bus and score points without need/incentive to properly sort DV. so something for future reference

@fire I don't think you should put a ton of stock of shifting momentum after Gamma replaced out cause, it could have been a planned bus as soon as Tweet saw the red role PM and didn't have the WIM, and I also think with vigs in play scum need enough towncred to not be a vig shot
I still wanna read a lot more but the appealing worldview to me is Mena > Frog >>>> (if game continues) Nero

VOTE: Frogsterking

H-O-L-Y S-H-I-T

Rolling Mason is such a negative utility because it makes guys play like total brick heads

have fun winning D9 or whatever when you FINALLY kill all the scum

Thank goodness Menalque got fucking shot and Gamma exited so you guys stopped hard defending scum

Frog, have you ever self-voted as town before?

I dunno my heart is really not in fireisred, I think he's genuine and I think he's right about frog

it feels like a lot of stuff people are clearing Frog on amounts to singular Gamma posts and reasoning that "he wouldn't group his buddies this way" or something similar. And those types of points are far less substantial reason to think he's town than it's being credited. Whereas I feel fireisred has a lot more believable trajectories and doesn't feel like he's enacting an agenda with them. I know I've gotten pushback but it just feels bizarre to me that fireisred would write several posts of a giant ass solve & case on me (7651, 7652, 7653, and 7657) and then just immediately drop it when CSF gets CC'd. if I'm wrong I'm wrong, but I don't sense any kind of contingency plan for if CSF dies, I feel like actually fully reversing on his scumread on me when there was an unexpected buddy going down just isn't necessary and is kinda bad play when he's scum, it's ceding ground exactly when he needs ground. the biggest benefit would be if he did it with intent to exactly pocket me like this, but then I don't feel like he's appealing to me to save him now either

VOTE: Frogsterking

H-O-L-Y S-H-I-T

Rolling Mason is such a negative utility because it makes guys play like total brick heads

have fun winning D9 or whatever when you FINALLY kill all the scum

Thank goodness Menalque got fucking shot and Gamma exited so you guys stopped hard defending scum

Frog, have you ever self-voted as town before?

@Frog - This was a serious question, can you link me a time you've self-voted as town?

The responses to me in 8082 and 8083 actually give me the impression of real thought behind his read on me and I think that if scum-Frogster had successfully fabricated that sort of thought process, then he would have just come out with it straight away instead of the initial 8078

I think this is maybe the best point in Frog's defense, but I don't put a ton of stock into it because ultimately Frog is giving reasons for a townread in 8082 and 8083 and it's not always difficult to fake real-sounding thought processes for fictional townreads as scum, cause you know everybody's town

actually @Frog nvm I just went back and checked and I had forgotten you self-voted in KTANE. Which was maybe a slightly different situation since you knew you had just done an extremely anti-town play, but I guess does give a basic precedent to being willing to sac yourself under fire.

still, I'm having a hard time understanding why you had the reaction you did. Why did Datisi suspecting you cause you a reactive response like that?

Directly communicating with CSF in-thread about whether to just let Morning Tweet die or go for my elim instead just feels way too.... blatantly like a scum PT conversation for it to be carried out in thread like that? Especially since if it was CSF + Frog as scum with Tweet there, there was very little evidence actual townies wanting my death over Tweet's at that point.

Also I just went back and reread this part of the game

the thing that makes it scummy in my mind is like - I don't have a strong recollection of Frog pushing Gamma when Gamma was around. I'll go back and do some homework after this post, but IIRC Frog wasn't pushing Gamma at all until Tweet came in. Now, suddenly, he's writing up a case on Gamma? If he was aware of these points before why was he not addressing them before when he wasn't voting Gamma? I kinda feel like it may have been an effort to make sure he has a nice justification for his Tweet scumread+vote left over there in ISO for if anyone goes looking later

The problem with Gamma is that they're in a similar category as HEM, they're Towned by IIRC scamper and also by Ari posthumously.

could this not be scum grabbing for towncred for his buddies using the voice of Real Townies? If Frog is town it's unlucky that he had a position of "well I scumread their play but conf town thinks they were town" on not one but two mafias

D2 tilt wagon?

what is a tilt wagon?

HEM

what is a tilt wagon?

When the towncore goes on tilt and throws away the D2 kill.

Frog blatantly defending HEM here

I know sometimes town is Loud and Wrong about townreads on scum, but this super confident townread really only sprung up in response to HEM being wagoned. Initially Frog was suggesting he'd be ok with the wagon (before it actually happened)

I think HEM is fair game today because none of the 5 slots I'm sheeping for proxy Town reads (ydrasse, scamper, Ausuka, Dats, Nero) town read HEM unless Nero does.

VOTE: Frogsterking

HOLY SHIT. THIS IS THE TOP TIER CRAZIEST SHITTIEST FROG!SCUM CASE. THIS IS PURE ABSTRACT ART.

[Frogsterking]

wow I think that's the towniest post frogster has made all game

wow I think that's the towniest post frogster has made all game

why

I was being mildly hyperbolic but I was feeling town vibes from both Shea and Frogster that page for engaging with each other and continuing to try to find more real time reasons for reads

I feel as scum in a game of this size it's very easy to just pick stuff out from the game that looks bad or good to form reads on people, but both slots were showing interest in like real time sorting which I think is a little more pro town this late in the game. and I think it is especially impressive/surprising from frogster who seemed like he had been locked into his reads for the past two day phases.

maybe I'm being too easily impressed by frogster idk

lmao right after that i talked him into a hem townread oops yea flip me

I will be honest and I feel a little sick saying this because I would hate if I just had a bad game and this was applied to me, but some of my suspicion towards you is simply burden of proficiency

you were also pretty consistently against the obscure wagon

I will try to reset and relook at Frog for you

VOTE: Dannflor if scamper has been protecting you because you guys are in a hood/masons then you can hardclaim.

Spoiler:

VOTE: something_smart

idk i don't really believe obscure is scum but whatever

would also just vote DV if anyone wants to do that

VOTE: deasvail

VOTE: tweet

not really opposed to an obscure wagon either but

VOTE: S_S

was kinda waiting for mena to come back and talk but ig maybe it doesn't matter. sure

VOTE: mena

VOTE: ss

VOTE: mena

VOTE: SS

also feel free to blame me if its ss town mena scum, i kept campaigning for ss lim over mena

one thing I'll say, fire's trajectory on flipped slots late D2 and D3 does not make it seem like he is informed of anyone's alignment. especially the later flips, posts #6414 - 7073 all come in kinda quick succession and honestly at that point I think any scum who sees their partner probably doomed in a situation like that vote parks their partner. or maybe they vote park the competing wagon. this whole swap back and forth thing is really unintuitive imo.

like... I suspected fire off of memory that he had a lot of pushes onto town while simultaneously soft-defending town. Which, the above kinda confirms yes. but the above doesn't really look like he's trying to keep obscure/menalque alive. nor does it look like he's trying to convincingly bus! it feels like town waffling idk

frogster's whole thing is revisionist history

like ragging on masons for allowing SS wagon to happen while he was actively campaigning for SS throughout that day phase as I look at it

frogster can you vote yourself again for a minute

I don't know looking back especially at the tweet > S_S > Mena wagons I feel like a lot of the stuff I was hard on fire for in my head applies to frogster worse in the end

like frogster hard hard defends scum so many times and then backs off as soon as he needs to

it is so much more agend-y

I'm considering hammering myself. If I do then I want to make a tier list of who posted the weirdest shittiest frog case.

ill make it easy by not posting a case

VOTE: frogster

idk this is what I was feeling at the start of day and I feel like this far in the game I am prone to overthinking and should just stick with my instincts

if it's not frogster my other idea is just that Titus is a serial killer lmao

it's the only thing that makes it make sense to me why nero cain wouldn't just kill scum but lol

trapped in my own mind is pretty accurate

also I will admit all of gammas interactions towards fire do read like pocketing versus buddy interactions

*especially* for gamma

Baltar has the most awkward interactions with frogster out of everyone here ok im done i said i wasn't going to case

if titus is scum tho i dunno how she wins here so I guess it's not something I'm particularly worried about beyond like

I will hate everything about this game if it turns out we cleared scum twice ina fucking row

Dannflor's case is extremely creative when some of the disparate elements are combined and presented together. It's not top tier but it's high tier, above fire's comparatively dry case and above Shea and scamper's "SEE-FROG-FOS-FROG" approach, but ranking below GL's monument to creativity. Dannflor's scum!frog case is of the "this isn't a scum!frog case" variety.

[Frogsterking]

Right now I'm working with

Most bizarre scum!frog case tier list

Top Tier:
GL 8408

High tier:
Dannflor 8406

Mid tier:
Shea 8382
scamper 8399

Low tier:
Fireisred 8395

Cases are ranked by their strangeness rather than how convincing they are because none of them are good.

[Frogsterking]

Right now I'm working with

Most bizarre scum!frog case tier list

Top Tier:
GL 8404

High tier:
Dannflor 8406

Mid tier:
Shea 8382
scamper 8399

Low tier:
Fireisred 8395

Cases are ranked by their strangeness rather than how convincing they are because none of them are good.
__

EBWOP

[Frogsterking]

oh so maybe that is a case made by scum?

I don't know. I'm guessing fire still because it's really long and boring and it was posted all at once. I think fire is the only one who seems aware of how ridiculous it is to case obvtown!frog as scum. I don't get the sense they believe in their scum!frog case.

[Frogsterking]

Right now I'm working with

Most bizarre scum!frog case tier list

Top Tier:
GL 8404

High tier:
Dannflor 8406

Mid tier:
Shea 8382
scamper 8399

Low tier:
Fireisred 8395

Cases are ranked by their strangeness rather than how convincing they are because none of them are good.
__

EBWOP

__

EBWOP: LINK to 8404 ALREADY

AAARGRGG *bites chunk out of nearby pillow and spits it out*

[Frogsterking]

PSA

The only thing that keeps it from being very low tier is that the amount of effort which went into writing such drivel is crazy in and of itself.

Fireisred's case has now been moved to very low tier because on closer inspection I realized it probably didn't take much effort to write at all.

[Frogsterking]

Did frog get hammered?

I can't tell if they were messing with me or not.

[Frogsterking]

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Probably.

[Frogsterking]

Let me show you clowns how to throw together a scum case at the last minute:

Despite being able to completely rationalize a Townread on Dease (8082,8083) I have to say Dease just continues to ping me hard as scum for yet another day phase.

Also Obscure played a pretty solid scumgame

Why?

Frogster, earlier in the game you were going on about how I’ve often been the “deepwolf” in scum games I’ve played and that seemed to be a big part of your suspicion on me. Why are you not concerned about me atm?

Scummy. Setting up for endgame.

Frogster, earlier in the game you were going on about how I’ve often been the “deepwolf” in scum games I’ve played and that seemed to be a big part of your suspicion on me. Why are you not concerned about me atm?

I got better at playing forum mafia since this game started. I can elaborate more if you want me too.

Elaboration would probably be helpful because I’m not sure who is scum from here and you’re one of the possibilities

Thanks Frog

Pocketing me + now prefers to keep me for endgame because I won't vote him.

I’m thinking between Fire and Shea atm

Hedging.

am i dumb for thinking gl is townie for posting around page 215?

like, i think at that point tweet has probably said "uh oh guys i'm gonna die" in the scum pt and like, i struggle seeing scum!gl then go and write big cases on obscure

if it really was that tweetie replaced in and said "uh oh guys i'm going to die" and scum-guiltylion was like "l know!! i will start writing a case on obscure!!" i am going to scream

Yeah I don’t think so

Vibing with the Mason.

I’m also vt

Doesn't line up with my pings I'm getting from Dease this game.

I will have my thoughts up later today.

Perfectionism; scum tell, doesn't fit with Dease personality.

Looking over the options, I had excluded all except Frogsterking, Shea and fireisredsir as elimination possibilities for today. If anyone needs my reasoning on any of the exclusions, then I'm happy to provide, but it seems fairly consensus.

I had initially considered Frogsterking, but have decided that in my opinion he is not super likely to be scum. 5479 through 5520 is just such a strange progression from scum. Directly communicating with CSF in-thread about whether to just let Morning Tweet die or go for my elim instead just feels way too.... blatantly like a scum PT conversation for it to be carried out in thread like that? Especially since if it was CSF + Frog as scum with Tweet there, there was very little evidence actual townies wanting my death over Tweet's at that point.
I still think that Frogster's interpretation of my earlier scumread on him as "vindictive" is more likely to come from town, and it felt weirdly personal in a way that seemed a lot more intense and less dilute than the game I've played with Frogster-scum.
The responses to me in 8082 and 8083 actually give me the impression of real thought behind his read on me and I think that if scum-Frogster had successfully fabricated that sort of thought process, then he would have just come out with it straight away instead of the initial 8078

Shea remains a very real possibility as scum. My earlier strong townread from 3333 has definitely faded with time due to... I suppose.... less of an impression of Shea needing to have impact on the game and more an impression of Shea complaining about scumreading the scum but not being listened to, which I consider to be less unlikely to be tried as a scum tactic. But the play and the progression still all feels a bit too messy for scum. I think there would be less foot-in-mouth moments as scum. If Shea is scum they've done a pretty good job of appearing uninformed, but I think his play indicates that Shea is, most likely, not informed.

I have come to the opinion that fire is scum. Today I've kept coming around to the feeling that the push on me Day 2 was disingenuous, and the progression from cautiously townreading me to me being probscum (and also possibly scum with gamma) to then being off the table, felt more like scum trying to make a push and then abruptly backing off when it didn't work. It also felt more cautious than Frogster's later blatant attempts to get a wagon on me instead of Tweet, which I think fire as scum would have made sure to avoid. I don't think there's that much suspicious about fire honestly, but there is not at all that much reason to clear fire as town, and their play overall makes the most sense as scum, so I think that's where I want to go today.

This post is more general vibes than specific points due to having less time than I had anticipated. If needed I may go into more detail on my fire read, but I'm expecting that'll be the popular opinion in the end anyway.

White knighting + trying to set up for end game.

redfire what are your reads rn?

prob most interested in looking for scum in dann, shea, SS, marci rn. a slight level below that would be xofelf and gamma

strongest TRs on ausuka, scamper, you. not quite as strong on datisi, hem, obscure, ydra, frog. then DV and GL are kinda weak townleans ig

i think thats everyone

okay this is funny
our strongest TRs line up but aside from that there's notable variance
I think I'll pencil in fire as town for this

right now I think this post is like one of the strongest points for fire!town

I know Ausuka disagrees

but it seems just like SO BAD. aren't you going to be more careful about town reading a buddy?

but this might be gamma specific so I'm going through Gamma's scum games to see if I can find a similar type of read on a buddy

I agree, but like you I'm at the point where I can think of reasons for townreading everyone, and I just think the stuff supporting fire-town is the least clearing.

Hedging, also a scum tell by not having enough scumreads. There's an absence of Townie paranoia which seems to indicate an informed perspective.

Also I think I’m ready to vote fire? But that would be l-1 so if anyone has things they want to look at more let me know. I do see that Dann is planning to re-look at frog

This just seems really pointless and timid.

Also shea is your uncertainty on fire enough to unvote or not really?

Also shea is your uncertainty on fire enough to unvote or not really?

I don't really have a better idea.

Fair

Vibing with Shea and checking in with where Shea's head is at in order to prepare for endgame.

Did frog get hammered?

Very generically scummy.

If Dease were TPR that could explain my pings, but Dease claimed VT. I think the last scum is Dease maybe because they avoided getting their hands dirty with this God awful frog wagon. Aside from fire who was a hot, silly mess D5 it feels like scum are probably off wagon which means most likely Dease IMO.

You guys really do suck at getting reads in this gamestate so I recommend closing your eyes and randomly picking between fireisred and dease until the game is over.

Like this:

*Closes eyes*

VOTE: Dease

[Frogsterking]

I'm considering hammering myself. If I do then I want to make a tier list of who posted the weirdest shittiest frog case.

ill make it easy by not posting a case

VOTE: frogster

...or just kill this stinker.

~Frog out

[Frogsterking]

which is why i don't think his response about how everyone's case on him is trash but still hesitant to really call anyone scum off it is not towny at all

i had an extra negative in here but you get the idea

i don't think its towny

This is probably scum for trying to discredit obvtown!frog for bad reasons guess? This is such an incredibly dense point to come from Fire. I don't think that when I screamed in bold underlined large text to close your eyes and hammer Dease or Fire I earned the label of "hesitant to call anyone scum."

VOTE: fireisred

Get BoPed

[Frogsterking]

frog, can you show me an example of where town-you cared to build a townblock / what dead town is thinking as hard as you did this game? i don't remember that being an aspect of your play in bunnies, but i could be forgetting

@frogsterking

I got the idea from playing in Large games because I realized there are too many players for 1 person to sort effectively. At the time I played Bunnies (mini) I was focused more so on the survey start and I hadn't played in any large mafia games ever, even on EM.

If you look at how I play D1 in KTANE -> LOST -> Team Fight Tactics -> here there should be a clear progression toward town blocking and relying on reads lists from multiple players to get extra Town reads.

For example, in KTANE, the mechanic of voting for the bomb teams functioned like choosing a Town core, and I asked people for reads lists a bunch of times. In LOST D1 Pooky formed a giant aggregate reads list, which helped a little bit, but the Town core was fractured because it was too big I guess? I was more willing to sheep other peoples reads in LOST and you see me start "hunting for Town Hunters" a little bit. In TFT, you see me execute a very similar strategy on D1 to what I did here once Titus and I become Legends. In TFT I think we had a third party in our Town core? But otherwise it was pretty accurate. We also hit scum D1 in that game which was crushing.

I don't think I will do it in every large game. What motivated me to start doing it here was:

1) I replaced in and other players had a lot more time to get reads than I did (and I thought other players here seemed to have competent D1 reads.)
2) scamper and ydrasse were convinced each other were Town and seemed to be playing like "Town Hunters" so I decided to start focusing on that. I didn't realize they were Masons at the time but the vibe I was getting from them was that neither was pocketed by the other, they trusted each other, and they had already sorted everyone.

The trajectory toward the play I did on D1 should be explicit between what you saw D1 in Bunnies -> KTANE -> LOST -> TFT -> here

I do think that my D1 play here is quite a bit easy to recognize as +Town if you're factoring that heavily into who you vote.

[Frogsterking]

read your iso in tft (or i tried to, at least), i didn't see that; and 500+ posts in lost is a bit uh. and i'm assuming you'd remember doing that if you did it, so.

The way you're going about this series of questions sounds like scum who is pretending to be hung up on some bullshit. It's very likely that I would forget doing this and I don't know why you're assuming otherwise. If you read my ISO in TFT and you don't see the similarities then my only guess is that you forgot to ISO Legends as well. I think your approach to meta where you're asking for proof that I've made a very specific post before as Town and determining if I'm in my Town range based off of whether I am able to produce that proof is unlikely to lead to good results and I think you're aware of that. It seems possible that you're tired of thinking about the game and about my slot and your analysis is regressing towards a simplistic hunt for a gotcha. I doubt that you really come to a conclusion based off of meta that I'm especially outside of my Town range for doing this thing.

[Frogsterking]

oh no, i'm asking because your "i don't wanna vote this person because The Townblock said they're town!!" was used to defend scum here, and i've never seen that behaviour from you before. if you had done it before as town, then it would be at least explainable, but it seems like you didn't, so...

And you think this is something I'm more likely to do as Town because...?

[Frogsterking]

oh no, i'm asking because your "i don't wanna vote this person because The Townblock said they're town!!" was used to defend scum here, and i've never seen that behaviour from you before. if you had done it before as town, then it would be at least explainable, but it seems like you didn't, so...

And you think this is something I'm more likely to do as Town because...?

Because you don't like that I did that?

[Frogsterking]

no, i think using reasoning you've never used before in order to defend flipped scum is something you're more likely to do as scum, i thought that was obvious

I don't agree with this approach to using meta and I doubt you've gotten good results with this kind of scum hunting in the past. I'm not particularly motivated to go dig up an example of what you want because I'm assuming you will say something like "no that isn't like what you did here because xyz" as if what you're pointing out has anything to do with my alignment.

[Frogsterking]

every bone in my body is telling me to yeet him, which is about standard as either alignment so whatever. 1310 is veering into TSTBS territory for me. maybe. because "hehehoho i have 3 scumreads and zero townreads" is such a fucking. horrible take that i feel like scum just Doesn't hit submit on a post like that. i hate the way he's playing around me bc it feels like he's afraid to either townread or scumread me because he knows that i am gonna be all over his read if i deem that it's not what i imagine it has to be, and guessing THAT is basically impossible because not even i know what i think it should be right now. but uh, giving this a bit more time until he's a little bit less busy i guess, but. idk. pain.

Like if I were a Mason and you were a VT and I was mad because you said I was playing bad, I could also sit there seething in the mason PT and spend all nightphase combing through your ISO looking for takes you had which were wrong and then demand that you show me proof you've literally made this exact post before as Town. How would you feel if you were a VT and I decided to take that approach to sorting you at this stage in the game?

It's an incredibly dense and myopic way to approach deducing your pool of suspects, and it probably indicates you're sleep deprived more than it indicates anything else.

[Frogsterking]

obvtown!frog

are you really obvtown if the entire game suspects you :thonk:

also, this might've been framed as a joke, but - why are you obvtown, frog?

besides, you need to answer 8536

I'm probably not going to answer 8536 because it's incomprehensible.

[Frogsterking]

why are you obvtown and why are the cases on you bad

there, translated

I'm obvtown for the reasons you and Shea were saying until you both inexplicably decided to flip your reads on me. The cases are bad because they're written from the point of view of players who are desperately trying to convince themselves I am scum. I probably wouldn't make half the posts in my ISO if I were scum and I don't understand what you think I was trying to accomplish when I made these so-called associative tells.

[Frogsterking]

and like, that only gets you so far, especially with the poe being what it is

I think there's a less than 5% chance I put this much effort and creativity into a scum game and that the way I've gone about this game is how I would choose to apply that energy if I did. I'm looking at this PoE and it's really not as tight as you're implying. I think you're anchored into seeing frog!scum because of bias and you're expecting some news breaking rationale for why I'm Town.

[Frogsterking]

My Town read on GL is plummeting rapidly. I'm starting to get similar vibes from them that I got from Gamma.

[Frogsterking]

sorry i don't really have much to add at this point

i did start to have some doubts but idk if it's useful to entertain them

i think my reasons to townread everyone else are stronger anyway

are they specific doubts

8584 does look an awful lot like a VI.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: GL

I want to find out what happens when I vote here.

[Frogsterking]

Whoever the two Town are in GL/fire/Shea, can you stop playing like shit for a second so I can find you? Thanks.

[Frogsterking]

My Town read on GL is plummeting rapidly. I'm starting to get similar vibes from them that I got from Gamma.

Ok I'm gunna need way more explanation on this one.

In what way is gamma similar to GL?

Also, if I recall correctly you defended gamma and then only moved onto her when she became MT. Is this wrong? If so can you give me posts where you suspected Gamma and then tell me how those posts are similar to how you feel about GL?

It sounds like you should reread my trajectory on Gamma because your selective memory is skipping a lot of important events so that you can rationalize your shitty frog tunnel.

[Frogsterking]

I've reported that post. Please feel free to play the game and attack arguments, but stop insulting me personally.

That's rich coming from you. If that post is considered a personal attack I probably just don't come back.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Shea

Shea's read trajectory onto me looks super fake IMO. I guess fire and GL can be VI's stuck in a bad tunnel. I'm not sure *where* Shea's tunnel actually starts and ends so I'm more inclined to believe it's fake. Also, the way he drags his knuckles with actually climbing onto my wagon looks like he knows I'm going to flip Town and is worried about voting in a way which isn't traced back to him later.

If you're Town then you should be embarrassed with your scum hunting efforts today, Shea, especially if fire really is the last one.

[Frogsterking]

Also so we're just admitting you can't answer the questions because none of that was real, right? Got it.

You're questions are ignoring the majority of information you have available to you, like how I tried to run up Gamma D1 and was discouraged from pursuing it because scamper was sure Gamma was Town. You're ignoring enough information it seems like a waste of time to try and correct you until you can demonstrate that you can play better.

[Frogsterking]

Stop personally insulting me.

You literally said the same thing to S_S. No one is personally insulting you, get over yourself. I'm calling your gameplay terrible because it really was quite bad today (IMO.) If I get banned because of that post you reported then you can fuck off. It's extremely arrogant of you to assume that you aren't working with selective memory because that is how humans operate, with state-based memory.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Titus

The way Shea is tying himself to my flip here kind of makes it seem like he's uninformed.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Shea

I don't understand what you're asking but w.e it is I'm sure it's really stupid. It's possible you're doing all this in an effort to intentionally make it look like you're uninformed. It's just really hard to tell between GL/fire/Shea which reaf trajectory is fake.

VOTE: fireis

Meh I'll leave it here.

[Frogsterking]

Aside from CSF getting wrekt, this is exactly how I expected the game to progress when I saw the group consensus was to sit on our hands instead of running up Menalque. I think it's still a Town win eventually and I probably get blamed "for making it so difficult for you" to end the game when nothing could be further from the truth.

[Frogsterking]

I'm tempted to self-hammer out of spite but I'll just wait for an ignorant Townie to hammer.

[Frogsterking]

Cya suckers have fun stressing out in lylo when you have to pay the price for doing pretend-solving today.

[Frogsterking]

It's just really hard to tell between GL/fire/Shea which reaf trajectory is fake.

Emphasis on the "reaf trajectory"

*rips bong*

Dude I

totally

am scum here omg, I get it now.

[Frogsterking]

It's just really hard to tell between GL/fire/Shea which reaf trajectory is fake.

Emphasis on the "reaf trajectory"

*rips bong*

Dude I

totally

am scum here omg, I get it now.

Durr hurr like

frog scum

, you know?

[Frogsterking]

It's just really hard to tell between GL/fire/Shea which reaf trajectory is fake.

Emphasis on the "reaf trajectory"

*rips bong*

Dude I

totally

am scum here omg, I get it now.

Durr hurr like

frog scum

, you know?

Durr hurr

[Frogsterking]

It's just really hard to tell between GL/fire/Shea which reaf trajectory is fake.

Emphasis on the "reaf trajectory"

*rips bong*

Dude I

totally

am scum here omg, I get it now.

Durr hurr like

frog scum

, you know?

Durr hurr

Durr

[Frogsterking]

It's just really hard to tell between GL/fire/Shea which reaf trajectory is fake.

Emphasis on the "reaf trajectory"

*rips bong*

Dude I

totally

am scum here omg, I get it now.

Durr hurr like

frog scum

, you know?

Durr hurr

Durr

Du

[Frogsterking]

It's just really hard to tell between GL/fire/Shea which reaf trajectory is fake.

Emphasis on the "reaf trajectory"

*rips bong*

Dude I

totally

am scum here omg, I get it now.

Durr hurr like

frog scum

, you know?

Durr hurr

Durr

Du

D

[Frogsterking]

It's just really hard to tell between GL/fire/Shea which reaf trajectory is fake.

Emphasis on the "reaf trajectory"

*rips bong*

Dude I

totally

am scum here omg, I get it now.

Durr hurr like

frog scum

, you know?

Durr hurr

Durr

Du

D

[Frogsterking]

You realize thats hella ablelist right? In a completely out of game sense as a human being with no role card to another human being with no role card, please stop.

There's nothing ableist about making fun of people who write posts when they're stoned, get over yourself.

[Frogsterking]

That is not what the traditional use or impact of terms like "hurr durrrrrrrr" is and you damn well know it. Please stop.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Frogsterking]

Well, ok, then I'll take the time to educate you hoping you are in good faith. That specific affectation is frequently used to make fun of and mockingly mimic those with developmental disabilities. It is extremely hurtful language in this sense and I think that if you are seriously doing it with no knowledge of that and do it in other contexts I would sincerely ask you reconsider because of the impact.

I was not aware of this.

[Frogsterking]

You're analysis of my read trajectory on Gamma is wrong by the way because you're ignoring my D1 play.

@Shea,

Not you, fire.

[Frogsterking]

that said, nothing he's done on the last few pages feels remotely believable to me, so

This is a scum line FYI

[Frogsterking]

You're analysis of my read trajectory on Gamma is wrong by the way because you're ignoring my D1 play.

@Shea

[Frogsterking]

All this work just to be run up tomorrow, fire.

[Frogsterking]

You're analysis of my read trajectory on Gamma is wrong by the way because you're ignoring my D1 play.

@Shea,

Not you, fire.

I didn't make an analysis of your read trajectory. I said what I vaguely remembered and then asked you if it was wrong, and that's not even the important part of my question which was me asking you how that related to GL with examples from said trajectory.

Just vote fire tomorrow I feel

moderate

certainty it's them now.

[Frogsterking]

that said, nothing he's done on the last few pages feels remotely believable to me, so

that said, nothing he's done on the last few pages feels remotely believable to me, so

This is a scum line FYI

everything you post is just extremely hollow

there's nothing behind it, you're just posting conclusions and then refusing to show any of the thought process that led you to those conclusions

This is literally scum!fire projecting their thoughts onto me into to scum post. Congratulations.

[Frogsterking]

All this work just to be run up tomorrow, fire.

You're analysis of my read trajectory on Gamma is wrong by the way because you're ignoring my D1 play.

@Shea,

Not you, fire.

I didn't make an analysis of your read trajectory. I said what I vaguely remembered and then asked you if it was wrong, and that's not even the important part of my question which was me asking you how that related to GL with examples from said trajectory.

Just vote fire tomorrow I feel

moderate

certainty it's them now.

[Frogsterking]

i showed my thought process for why i don't find your posting believable, how exactly is it projection?

it's your turn

I want to know how you feel about facing lylo tomorrow, fire.

[Frogsterking]

lylo

I forgot, it's not even lylo yet, is it fire?

[Frogsterking]

that said, nothing he's done on the last few pages feels remotely believable to me, so

This is a scum line FYI

everything you post is just extremely hollow

there's nothing behind it, you're just posting conclusions and then refusing to show any of the thought process that led you to those conclusions

Shea proud of how effortlessly they are pocketed by scum!fire.

[Frogsterking]

I'm happy to vote fire today if you can just answer the questions I've been asking for about 3 pages now adequately. Can you do that?

Fine. I remember you asked something about GL and that's the only question I can remember.

[Frogsterking]

@Datisi for getting hung up on how I townread like 1 player incorrectly at some point using this method.

@Ari
@Dease
@Dats
@Nero
@Ausuka
@xoxelf

Can you guys confirm there's an up to date reads list in your iso? Please?

scamper

Nero Cain
fireisredsir
Aristeia

Ausuka
Datisi
xofelf
DeasVail

{

ydrasse

,

ausuka

, gamma emerald}
{frogsterking, marcistar,

nero cain

}
{

aristeia

, firebringer}
{

deasvail

,

xofelf

, guiltylion,

datisi

}

{hem, fireisredsir, obscure, vp baltar, dannflor}

{conmanmick, irrelephant}

THANK YOU BOTH OF YOU!!

[Frogsterking]

im still not seeing scum!gamma

What do you see when you read Gamma's iso and what do you think motivates Gamma in this game?

i think shes hanging back and commenting/giving input on things that catch her attention. her analysis is brief but i can feel shes thinking abt things. shes not trying to take a big role or influence things too strongly and has been unbothered by pressure or the suggestion shes not doing enough.


i felt like she played fairly similarly in 2276 where i was scum and she was town. i dont think her playing in the background this game is scum-ai. even looking at the scum game from last year u mentioned, i would describe her play there as "performative" and i dont get the same feeling from her this game, at all.

Fair enough, do you have any thoughts on xo?

UNVOTE: Gamma

im still not seeing scum!gamma

What do you see when you read Gamma's iso and what do you think motivates Gamma in this game?

Not a reaction to you actually
Maybe get over yourself?

You were rolling your eyes at...the votecount?

Efobbbio?

Yes. D2.

thats L-1 claim

I’m calling your bluff

I'm interpreting Gamma's silence here as being caught.

What else is there to say until/unless I fact check that game?

It looks like Gamma knows I'm not bluffing and is frozen...

If we quickhammer Gamma here it will force the scum team to flip 1 player for us before they can infer how the dayplay will shape out D2.

Efobbbio?

Yes. D2.

thats L-1 claim

I’m calling your bluff

I'm interpreting Gamma's silence here as being caught.

Efobbbio?

Yes. D2.

I also see Frog and obscure being pally, kinda makes me think I’m onto something
VOTE: Frogsterking
I’ll go here first because I think there’s better traction here

This is the reaction I was expecting from a scum!Gamma.

Based on what, exactly?

You reacted this way in a game we played over a year ago which you don't remember.

I also see Frog and obscure being pally, kinda makes me think I’m onto something
VOTE: Frogsterking
I’ll go here first because I think there’s better traction here

This is the reaction I was expecting from a scum!Gamma.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald this is a scum slot I think

HEMs early stuff I thought town and also VP but a few things struck me as off from both and I would like to look back properly at both.
I don't particularly think FB is town but I can wait for him to kick into gear for now and he's done enough that I am not auto scumreading so I don't want to vote there right now.
I am interested in seeing more of Xof's iso dives to see what kind of content is there
I will look at some stuff in the morning. I'm trying to just chuck down rough notes so I don't have to start fresh so I appreciate this is a bit halfhazard.

I don't like how cagey this feels and I don't like the excuses for:

• *Not expanding on the VP and HEM reads
  *Posting in order to use the thread as a notepad

At this rate I'll say there's probably a scum in Gamma, xo, Conman

[Frogsterking]

Uhh Gamma traitor maybe? Or Town on tilt? Or scum playing better than they have in the past? My instincts are both to Town and scum read Gamma and that's the best I can rationalize that. I feel like Gamma is working within the PoE laid out by the Town core but in the worst way possible. I've seen Gamma make three tells now which I can link directly to their scum meta.

This is the feeling I was referring to when I said that GL is reminding me of Gamma's slot. Looking at this post, the main difference is that GL's play just makes me confused and agitated, and I haven't seen the concrete identical scum posts which I was also seeing from Gamma.

[Frogsterking]

This projection is roughly what I remember by the way. You briefly pushed at gamma for about one total page in a very distance-y sort of way and then immediately moved off of her at the very first chance you got and then didnt really significantly push gamma again.

I'm not sure how you think that I would go about distancing but it seems like you greatly over estimate my scum game.

[Frogsterking]

2) You think GL is town on tilt

4) Your instincts are that its best to both TR or SR guiltylion
5) You think GL is working within the PoE laid out by the town core but in the worst way possible

These three

[Frogsterking]

2) You think GL is town on tilt

4) Your instincts are that its best to both TR or SR guiltylion
5) You think GL is working within the PoE laid out by the town core but in the worst way possible

These three

2) they seem to have been stuck on the idea of frog!scum the same way scamper has and are constantly re evaluating evidence until they find a way to present it so that it supports frog!scum.

4) I think GL can be townread because they seem to be displaying conviction but I also want to scum read them because it's hard for me to believe that their thought process is real.

5) I think it makes sense for me to be in the PoE but it doesn't make sense for me to be anyone's top suspect.

[Frogsterking]

I mean its pretty clear to me that you went back into your meta, desperately tried to find a post that was vague enough that you could sort of half link it to your nonsense GL point and then posted it.

Okay give yourself the booty dance then when you find out that I really associate that same feeling between both players and you realize you should have never let people talk you out of your fire FoS.

[Frogsterking]

deas and ausuka

Dease and Ausuka are the only ones making any sense and you should read why they think I'm Town and consider listening to what they're saying.

[Frogsterking]

are constantly re evaluating evidence until they find a way to present it so that it supports frog!scum.

I guess this is the difference between fire/GL/Shea. Fireisscum because their read trajectory lacks the nonsensical re evalution of evidence which GL and Shea have been doing.

[Frogsterking]

If fire is scum town is going to win this game very easily so I don't know why you think I would be upset in this scenario.

I never said you would be, I just said to remember to give yourself a booty dance for getting talked out of your scum read and for telling me that I don't draw an implicit association between the two things I just described.

[Frogsterking]

Nah because I think if you're town here you're actively hampering the towns win condition right now so I think its the right move to lim you either way.

Aka tell yourself what you want to hear instead of attempting to solve the problem. Gotcha.

[Frogsterking]

Tilted town frogster definitely would have self hammered

Make sure you give yourself the booty dance for underestimating my self control, too.

[Frogsterking]

Or are you basing this off frog's personality that would make more sense.

He is trying to base it off of my personality and he is correct that most people with my personality would self vote out of spite.

[Frogsterking]

most people with my personality would self vote out of spite.

That's why I chose the quote in my sig.

[Frogsterking]

that I think that will also end the game a whole day sooner.

Killing the player campaigning to end the days faster by voting out the scum is how you choose to find the fastest win in this scenario. Brilliant idea.

[Frogsterking]

Game day, my friend. I was jokingly saying I think we will not need to lim fire if we lim you because the game will end before we go to day 6.

And then at the beginning of day 6 you give yourself the booty dance for believing that I don't draw an implicit association between Gamma's scum game and GL's town game, and that I don't have the self control to prevent myself from self hammering out of spite. Gotcha.

[Frogsterking]

@Datisi for getting hung up on how I townread like 1 player incorrectly at some point using this method.

@Ari
@Dease
@Dats
@Nero
@Ausuka
@xoxelf

Can you guys confirm there's an up to date reads list in your iso? Please?

scamper

Nero Cain
fireisredsir
Aristeia

Ausuka
Datisi
xofelf
DeasVail

{

ydrasse

,

ausuka

, gamma emerald}
{frogsterking, marcistar,

nero cain

}
{

aristeia

, firebringer}
{

deasvail

,

xofelf

, guiltylion,

datisi

}

{hem, fireisredsir, obscure, vp baltar, dannflor}

{conmanmick, irrelephant}

THANK YOU BOTH OF YOU!!

@Datisi

[Frogsterking]

I feel like what fire is doing makes more sense as a scum strategy than what frog is doing fwiw and I think my vote there is better right now. Pushing frog is like, idk I think pretty easy to do here because he's being so aggro and it's difficult to understand. Sorry frog.

seems like a pretty effective strategy if people are gonna townread him for it and let him get away with it all game!

just bc pushing frog is easy doesn't mean it isn't correct

sometimes scummy people are scum

Fire how come you didn't answer my question about whether or not you're looking forward to talking yourself out of getting limmed tomorrow?

[Frogsterking]

bc it isn't relevant to the game and also tomorrow isn't elo

Yes it is relevant to the game because scum!fire has a team of players (csf, obscure, vp, gamma) who are counting on them now. If scum!fire let's themselves be eliminated tomorrow then they will let down everyone who is depending on them.

[Frogsterking]

well he didn't push on me what I mean by that is eliminating him for not making sense

And while I was "not making sense" i was correctly casing the deep scum who had pocketed u all, was i not?

[Frogsterking]

I was talking about the push on me which I omgussed in that game

Also iirc we killed that guy next day so I don't think he had us pocketed

Yall seemed pretty pocketed. It's true that they died anyway and that I pushed you the day before in that game and my push made absolutely no sense.

[Frogsterking]

bc it isn't relevant to the game and also tomorrow isn't elo

Yes it is relevant to the game because scum!fire has a team of players (csf, obscure, vp, gamma) who are counting on them now. If scum!fire let's themselves be eliminated tomorrow then they will let down everyone who is depending on them.

Thoughts, fire?