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Post #3186 (isolation #200) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:35 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
In post 3170, Titus wrote:No. Tywin making the game unreadable means he dies.
What is unreadable? Wall posts? That's not unreadable. That's you being lazy. If you can't read it, then you have larger (and far more important) real life issues to take care of. Reading a paragraph or two literally takes a minute, and that's only if you're a slow reader.
As far as me dying, that's going to happen regardless. At least pay attention to what I'm saying before I flip town and you blame me for you railroading me literally the entire game without reason.
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Post #3189 (isolation #201) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:43 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
Honestly Titus, if Cabd didn't somewhat confirm you (and I still believe there may be a loophole that makes you scum, but whatever), I'd have to consider you scum for your railroad of me. You've never bothered looking at my slot objectively. Not even once. You've never tried to consider that my play is so anti-scum in the way it's gone down, that it would literally be insane to believe I'm scum. Players like Nos do jack shit all game and skate by for it, and you guys have lynched town after town everyday, yet you can't seem to get over the fact that your reads are just WRONG. Why? Normally, the only conclusion is that you are scum, but with Cabd saying otherwise, it makes me wonder what exactly you are thinking this entire game. It certainly isn't about catching real scum. So what is it? Ego?
Your railroading of me is inherently anti-town and against the book on how to be a good townie. That's why I've consistently said you are scum, because your play in this game has been bad by all objective measures on what town should do. Railroading without reason, never being objective, conf biasing everything, ignoring town wagons, ignoring flips and what they mean, and ignoring half the players in the game for no legitimate reason... If this is how you play normally as town, I'll probably advocate for you to be a policy lynch from now on. I haven't seen you play like this elsewhere though, so I'm hoping this is just a really bad one-off. Otherwise, you're scum and Cabd fucked is with his claim. I really can't tell.
I was also pretty clear on thinking moz scum but you know just keep lying about things
I've asked for two days now for someone to say why they thought moz was scum. I've never heard a peep.
Also, mod error on that nos wagon. I was on it too. Mod didn't see my vote. Didn't matter and wasn't brought up due to Lapsa getting lynched regardless, but I was also on Nos.
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Post #3191 (isolation #203) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:50 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
Gamma should be tomorrow's lynch. He really is obvious scum.
Kyouko may be his partner. Gamma is the obvious one though. Pretty sure I've said this all game too, although I haven't gunned for him over others.
So tomorrow (or tonight), kill Gamma plz. He's so fucking obvious that it's as blatant as Moz was being a Townie. I couldn't for the life of me see why anyone would scrum read Moz. He was the most yownie player in the game by a fucking mile. His wagon was a joke of epic proportions. Gamma is blatantly scum in that same regard. I've forgotten he existed quite a few times with his bullshit no-content prod dodging, but he really does need to go.
Elibrin, I hope you learn how to scum read after I'm lynched. It's a learn 2 play issue, but I have faith in you.
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Post #3192 (isolation #204) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:56 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
In post 3188, Elbirn wrote:You know what man just fuck you you're flipping red and youre on ignore
When I flip green, I hope you get wagoned for refusing to answer basic fucking questions and refusing to give an actual scum case on me. Fucking ridiculous that players get away with shit like this. Learn how to answer questions and play the game how you're supposed to. Otherwise, stick to the newbie queue for a while and get better.
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Post #3193 (isolation #205) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:03 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
I won't be coming back to post anymore in this thread. Scum get another day without trying.
Someone please hammer. Otherwise, you'll have to wait on my replacement. I'll flip VT like I've said all along, and then maybe people will see that scum do not play the way I have for obvious fucking reasons. It's ridiculous to even assume I'd flip scum from the start. You all knew better deep down from the beginning, so taking the easy road that leads you closer to losing only makes you a worse player in the long run. If you don't like conflict, don't play this game. If you can't handle being suspected or grilled about your actions, don't fucking play mafia. If you can't read people, their personalities, or understand what motivations drive people in this game, don't fucking play mafia. If you can't look at things objectively, rethink your confirmation biases, understand that you can be wrong, and change your minds when you ARE proven wrong, again, don't fucking play mafia. There are better games suited for you, like solitaire. Smh
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Post #3195 (isolation #206) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:18 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
Last reads:
Elibirn is still town sadly.
Alisae is def town. She's not SK.
Titus is confirmed so town, but FML do I dislike her play in this specific game
AJ is town. He questions things and reads.
Sonia is town. I didn't know she was on the nos wagon, and cloud's NK probably was to implicate her.
Nero is null but still more town than scum IMO. Pure gut read tho. I could be wrong.
Syryana's slot is town. Most likely the second Mason.
Gamma is scum, Kyouko is suspect. Pine is suspect.
Am I forgetting anyone? If not, there you go. Those are my reads.
In post 3194, Alisae wrote:VOTE: Tywin Lannister
Putting you out of your misery.
You're scum. If you felt that way you would have replaced out by now.
I'm not a quitter, and nope, I'm town. That's hammer though. Pay attention to my three scum reads.
My Newbie with you says otherwise
Luckily you got your cool head together
One game isn't enough to judge someone. Honestly, until I get a game here where I'm scum, nobody should assume to know my scum play. I haven't had enough completed games to even do a legitimate meta (if you believe in that, which I don't), and without a sample size that includes a completed scum game, I don't think you should use past games as any indication. If I flipped scum in this one, perhaps you'd be right, but I won't.
Plus, think critically here. Who would've been my teammates? Nobody that has defended me is alive. Think about why. Nobody is left that would try to stop my wagon. All who did flipped town. Think about it for future games. Scum play as a team. Only townies get this railroaded this frequently as I have this game. Honestly, all it takes is some critical thinking to see I don't have teammates on my side, so I'm clearly not scum (or a Mason for that matter). Just saying
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Post #3203 (isolation #209) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:34 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
In post 3201, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:Or you can try to wagon me today even, you're just as safe as Titus is until we think all the scum are dead, no need for you to be worried about going against her during the day as long as you don't start NKing the wrong people
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Post #3207 (isolation #210) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:41 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
Kyouko, why have you ignored players like Gamma and defended obvious scum lurkers like Nos this entire game? Why go after Sonia when there are lurkers and useless players like gamma/pine playing? Why ignore those slots? Do you TR them? Just like nos?
Also, Don't down Alisae's judgement when she took out the only legitimate scum slot this game. You certainly didn't. The traitor slot isn't real scum in the same way as nos, and scum NK'd him.
Sonia was probably supposed to be implicated in the Cloud NK by scum. That was their plan I bet. Interesting how Kyouko brings her up again now that I'm hammered and old news. Cloud's NK implication didn't work due to him being the traitor, but scum didn't know that when they made the kill.
Don't sleep on Kyouko people. Gamma should go first though. I'm okay with either getting vig shot tonight though. Kyouko wanted desperately to find the traitor crumbs, not because he is town, but because his scum team wanted to avoid the NK there. That's why cloud wrote that post to Kyouko stating 'traitor will go to great lengths to crumb it to the scum team.' That was directed to Kyouko for a reason.
I really need to hear from Syr's replacement.
Until then, I'm not lynching Tywin.
I'm dead set on this.
I'm 90% sure you already hammered me.
If not though:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: kyouko
I still say gamma is a better bet, and I also would like to lynch pine, but in the off chance I'm not already hammered, I'm more than okay with Kyouko here. Those three are my only real suspects. AJ used to be, but I TR him now. Nero is null. I don't really see him as scum, but I can see the possibility. Elibrin is someone I'd like to be scum, but I don't think he is. Titus is the same in that regard. Personal bias makes me want them to be the bad guys, but I don't see it. I know they vote me for the same reason. They want me to be the bad guy, rather then actually believing in it. Titus just has me as a policy lynch right now, not a real scum read IMO.
Oh well. I guess it's better to not vote myself. Going against win con is always stupid and bad play, but it's frustrating as hell to be railroaded by town. It would be more understandable if they were scum slots doing it (rather than just voting me without reason).
I still want gamma first though. He's obvious scum in my not so humble opinion. I was right about Moz. Can't I be right about gamma? Id like to think so.
You mean like that? Or are you saying why haven't I voted you? Cuz why would I vote a strong TR? Even yesterday, I viewed you as possible SK, not scum. Even if you are the SK, you've done more for town than town have, so I wouldn't lynch you even if you said you're NKing me (like yesterday).
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Post #3212 (isolation #213) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:53 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
In post 3204, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:scumteam are likely to kill gerry/titus tonight imo. Gerry because mason and Titus because she's the one guiding your shots. They would rather you be shooting for yourself because frankly Titus has better judgment than you and they need you to kill town to swing the game back in their favor
pedit: Gamma as a shot or as a wagon?
Gamma as either. I don't TR you, but I'm more sure about Gamma.
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Post #3217 (isolation #214) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:03 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
In post 3211, Alisae wrote:nah it's 6 to hammer Tywin, you're alive.
And like you did. Voting Kyouko. Not voting me. Voting me is stupid and sorta what got Nos shot.
Then I'm glad he voted you LOL. Idk why his team didn't tell him to stop though. Nobody thought you were scum. The talk was SK, not scum, and SK wasn't a good lynch even if you had admitted it. I lean vigi for you at this point. If you were the SK, I see no reason for you to not have shot me regardless of what you viewed my alignment to be. Town wanted me shot, so you'd have earned cred for it as SK. Shooting Nos pisses off scum and doesn't please town in the same way shooting me would have. I think that more or less locks you into the Vigi slot.
And regardless, you can still shoot me tonight if you want. I don't think it's Lylo if I die, and I am pretty confident that the scum slots are between Gamma, kyouko, pine, and to a lesser extent, Nero. I'm 100% positive there is at least one scum between gamma, pine, Kyouko though. The only reservation I have is Kyouko seems more town than gamma at least, but the cloud exchange with Kyouko, plus Kyouko consistently asking Lapsa and others about the traitor is damning evidence imo. I also disliked Kyouko going off on his tangent yesterday about you being SK and giving idiotic theories due to it rather than looking for scum. Even if you are SK, you're not a good lynch at that point (or now, or the future either really), so why he ignored scum slots and focused on the SK talk didn't sit well with me.
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Post #3220 (isolation #216) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:45 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
Cop, vigilante, Masons. 1-shot gunsmith.. Hmm... There may be a doctor there too, considering scum had a loved traitor and now a motion detector, which is a variance of watcher/tracker from what I can tell. With Lapsa and me being VT (not that I expect anyone to believe me until I flip), Titus cleared by Cabd, vigilante pretty much confirmed to be Alisae, and Mason most likely Syryana's replacement due to nobody defending Moz... A doc should help in Lylo if mass claim is needed.
Looking past all the confirmed/most likely confirmed players, the pool is this:
Me, Nero, Sonia, elibirn, kyouko, gamma, pine, AJ.
So basically confirmed players, unless Gerryoat confirms he isn't the other Mason is Alisae/Titus/gerryoats
With one 'real' scum and one traitor down, I'd say we have 2-3 more scum. 4 scum + 1 traitor seems to be overkill, so I'd call that the max. Most likely it's 3 scum + 1 traitor.
With traitor and Nos gone, 2 scum mean Lylo isn't until 5 players total left (assuming no scum lynch). If 3 scum, Lylo is 7 players. With 11 currently, town has at least two mislynches before Lylo I believe, assuming all NKs go off and town are lynched each day. Town may have three mislynches left if only two scum.
So regardless, lynching me today shouldn't hurt much, and assuming Alisae continues to get her kills off, town should be fine.
And since there are 3 confirmed, the scum pool of 2-3 players are within 8 slots. By process of elimination, we can go from towniest to scummiest and will most likely hit someone between a lynch/NK assuming things aren't completely out of hand with bad wagons. So my doom and gloom mindset isn't totally warranted I guess.
So 8 slots to find 2-3 scum. I know I'm not scum, and those who are town know they arent. That makes it 7 slots for 2-3 scum for each individual townie to sort. Based on reads, those are good odds. So if we take those 7 slots and do VCA on everyone, plus maybe ISO top suspects... That shouldn't be difficult. The real question is who will be around if it comes to Lylo? I DONT want to be around, because I'll be mislynched and game will be over. Due to that, I'd rather get lynched or NK'd before Lylo. I don't want to be the one who gets mislynched on Lylo.
Anyways, after looking at everyone, kyouko, gamma, pine are most suspect IMO, I've said this plenty before, but it's worth mentioning again.
Alisae, you 'should' be able to get off at least one more NK tonight, even if scum target you. You'll trade kills and that will be that, unless they have a roleblocker. If they did, they probably would've blocked you last night. Due to that, you may be the NK, but you'll have one more kill at least. I hope you use it either on me (just to remove mislynch opportunity and focuses the game back to real scum), or shoot gamma. Regardless, town can afford it, and less suspicious slots means a better chance to hit scum during the day.
For that reason, I think I have to advocate you NKing me. If I assume correctly that I will continue to be a mislynch target everyday, then me getting to Lylo would be disastrous for town. I really shouldn't be in Lylo, and I can't see scum NKing me due to the easy mislynch opportunity they get daily. I honestly want gamma killed, but if not him, removing me is probably a net positive for town. My flip removed a distraction and easy wagon from the game, and again... I can't make Lylo based on how this game has played out. All scum will need to do is keep Titus and Elibrin around, and I'd get their votes everyday from here on out. I think it would lose the game in Lylo.
But if you want to hit scum, gamma is my top pick. ISO and VCA him and tell me he looks town. I bet you can't.
Alisae I swear to God if you don't stop responding to every attempt at logical discourse with "wifom" I'm going to shove a wine bottle up your ass
" 2 + 2 is 4"
"Yeah but wifom"
This is WIFOM. Would you shove the bottle up her ass, or would you shove it up your own ass? Knowing full well that Alisae wouldn't like the bottle in her ass, you'd shove it up your own, due to fully enjoying said bottle. But wait! Alisae knows you'd shove it up your ass, so she'd pretend to not like the bottle, knowing your ass is glass, but then you'd know that as well, so you'd shove it up hers, but then maybe she didn't like it still and you'd know this, so shove it up yours.
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Post #3365 (isolation #220) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:49 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
In post 3333, Titus wrote:My theory of Elbrin Tywin AJ Nero feels good, but it's probably wrong
Well, I know it's wrong with me in there. I also think it's wrong since you have 4 scum there. Scum already lost Nos, and cloud was a traitor. Do you honestly believe there are 6 scum in this game? I certainly don't. The town roles we know about aren't powerful enough to offset a 5 scum team + 1 traitor game. We'd need a far larger game than this if that was the case.
I wasn't on the 2 lynches on town
I was on the scum counter wagon
I wasn't the one who lynched the mason
Kiss my ass.
This is good enough to place Sonia into a town slot. Kyouko trying to frame her as being scum is ridiculous based on her VCA IMO. At the very least, there are better candidates than Sonia to be scum. Why hasn't gamma been lynched or grilled yet by anyone? Doesn't that strike you as odd? It's as odd as nos being ignored by scum and Kyouko calling him town for it. Again, Why has gamma not been called out by anyone? My guess is because his scum team obviously won't do it, and they will lead other wagons over him. I scum read gamma every game though, so I could be wrong. His play never strikes me as town though, and I think that's a problem. He certainly hasn't helped town scum hunt at any point this entire game. An ISO will prove that.
So again, why has everyone ignored gamma? Shouldn't he at least be sorted to make sure he's town? I can't think of a single player outside of myself who has really questioned gamma's alignment this entire game, and almost every other player has at least been called into question. Nobody has for gamma (aside from me), and I think that's a huge red flag.
Why is he just bad town instead of scum? Any townie with half a brain cell knows Alisae scum and not the correct lynch, even if they somehow believed she was the SK still. She's obviously not scum. She NK'd the only caught scum this game (not including the traitor who scum NKed themselves). So why is pine let off the hook here? You know who the last player was that voted Alisae over looking for real scum? Nos. Do you remember what he flipped?
In post 3250, Titus wrote:Pine, I am not lynching Alisae if she shoots scum the night before. You would be wise to adopt this.
UNVOTE:
I trust Titus. I may be overreacting, but I've been fooled by Vig/SKs before. Alisae intimidating people away from questioning her is extremely sketchy, but it can wait until we've eliminated more of the scumteam.
Vote will go back on Tywin when we've heard more from the people who've been absent.
This guy is fucking scum lol. This shit is completely contrived. Please tell me I'm not the only one that sees it. Pine is obvious scum. He also won't even look at Kyouko, making Kyouko probable scum as well.
I've said it for two days now and will repeat it: scum reads are Gamma, Pine, and Kyouko.
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Post #3372 (isolation #225) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:37 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
I already pointed out that I don't have to live for town to win. I just hope town lynches gamma/pine/Kyouko after I'm gone, because aside from Kyouko, nobody seems to focus their attention on gamma/pine. That scares me at least, because in my biased opinion, they're the most obvious scum in this game. They won't even touch each other all game long. They won't mention each other, won't question them, SR them, or even TR them. They ignore each other like the plague. ISO them and find out for yourselves. Prove me wrong. Nos voting Alisae yesterday was a bad joke. Pine voting Alisae today is absolutely ridiculous play. Only scum look for an SK lynch over scum hunting. His post is SO obvious that I have to believe others have seen it. Titus coaching Pine over scum reading him is bad for town. Gerryoats calling Pine bad town over scum reading him is bad for town. You couldn't make this crap up if you tried. The guy is obvious scum here.
So again, if you're dead set on lynching me, fine. Town can handle the loss of a VT, but PLEASE look to kill Pine/Gamma/Kyouko after. It's so obvious to me. Why isn't it for others? I'm not sure what the hangup for everyone else is on voting scum. Stop calling them bad town and just admit they're likely scum already. Your reads in the past have all been wrong. Please listen to another opinion for once.
And Alisae, this isn't directed towards you. I know you pay attention. Nos is dead due to that. I'm speaking more to the other townies like Titus, Elibrin, etc.
Pine is still town regardless of his little issue earlier. Gamma's been inactive site-wide so it's hard to keep a read on him.
Ok but WHY is pine town? You can't call him town and ignore his clear anti-town play and not give reasons for the TR. He looks like clear scum to me. I don't understand why you'd not SR him as well, or at least be suspicious of him. What post or vote or absolutely anything this entire game makes you believe Pine is town? Please give reasons. At least you did so for SRing me, which I appreciate. You gave reasons. Please don't ignore players and evidence against them in this game simply due to gut reads. If there is evidence that Pine is possible scum, why would you ignore that?
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Post #3392 (isolation #227) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:01 am
Postby Tywin Lannister »
Again, Pines vote on Alisae today is a scum tell. Nos did the exact same thing yesterday. Pine only unvoted when he got coached up by Titus to switch, and he gave an extremely contrived excuse for it. He absolutely ignores anything dealing with the other wagon in Kyouko and states he will jump his vote back on me. The fact that he won't even mention kyouko's name all game, plus Kyou never mentioning Pine.. That's also a scum tell. Scum avoid each other like the plague in-thread for a reason. Don't tell me you haven't noticed this pattern.
Gamma, Pine, and Kyouko have largely ignored each other to the point where it's ridiculous to assume they're all town, and their play lends itself to scum play styles. In my view, it's obvious. I don't understand how you could get a null read on gamma and still ignore him. I don't understand how you can TR pine after 110+ pages on Day 3. Some things just do not make sense here. Are you purposely ignoring those players? Do you honestly think scum don't lurk and contribute nothing like gamma/pine have? Nos did it ALL GAME. You have an example already. So why ignore the others? Do you truly believe all scum play like me? If so, I'd question your mafia experience. Scum always lurk and/or stay null. At best, only one or two scum are out in the open in every game.
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Post #3393 (isolation #228) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:06 am
Postby Tywin Lannister »
At the least, I just want town to pay attention to players like gamma/pine. There is definitely something off with them. They are null at best, not town. Nothing about their past votes, posts, or opinions have been super town, and in most cases, they've proven to be anti-town. Please stop ignoring players in the game and pay attention. Active, talkative people aren't the only ones in this game, and Nos proved the age old theory that scum like to lurk and contribute as little as possible. They never move games forward, and you cannot honestly say pine or gamma have even once progressed the game state in a positive way for town.
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Post #3400 (isolation #229) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:25 am
Postby Tywin Lannister »
Alisae, I think you're going to be the next NK tonight. I don't see how scum leave you after you took out nos. That shot confirmed you aren't scum, and the best they can do now is discredit you as the SK, which I don't believe is the case anymore. If there's a doctor, then I hope they protect you, but I'm not confident in there being one. If so, they've probably protected Titus all game. I just don't really think there is one though. So I think you have one shot left. Unless there's a Mafia doc, i assume you'll hit. A roleblocker would've probably been on you already if they had one.
We will see what happens, but I'm definitely okay with a pine vote. I don't know if anyone else will join though. Obv town have called pine 'bad town' instead of possible scum too many times for me to have a lot of confidence in a wagon there, but I'll join it when I get home from work.
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Post #3404 (isolation #231) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:51 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
In post 3403, Alisae wrote:Me being NK'd also kinda confirms my scumreads being Pine, Kyouko, and Gamma.
I just hope you can do the rest. I'm not gonna die without taking 2-3 scum with me.
Haha, I'm pretty positive I'll be mislynched before those three, so I don't think it's up to me. All town sees me as scummy at best, confirmed scum at worst. I think someone like Sonia will need to take the lead later. Titus may come around after I flip town, so there's that too.
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Post #3428 (isolation #232) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:06 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
In post 3406, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:Will get to you about Sonia when I get home Nero, but Tywin you should iso me, I know I haven't interacted much with gamma but I SRed mozamis on the basis she was preferentially treating Pine for lurking compared to other lurkers. I was thinking scum!Moz meant scum!Pine but I was wrong there
Wall post is for Kyouko for those of you who are allergic to reading:
I will do it when I have time. It's been/going to be a long week for me due to end of the year stuff at work. I think I'll be working around 72 hours this week and then I'm moving to a new apt at the end of January, so my time is somewhat limited atm to put it lightly. I'll still try though. I honesty find you to be the least scummy of the three I've SR pretty consistently, although you do have the most 'evidence' against you. Still, your play has been active enough to make me think you may not be scum, and in that case, I do need to rethink things a bit. You just don't 'feel' as scummy as pine/gamma do, which is why I told Alisae I'd be moving my vote to pine with her after I got home from work. I'm home now, so I'll do what I said. Also, I think gamma may be a better target for Alisae than you, but I can't say I'd not agree with either. I know her and Sonia don't feel you are town, and regardless of how you feel less scummy to me than pine/gamma, you do still give me spidey sense pings.
So anyways, I'll ISO you soon and reevaluate things. Pine does look like the better lynch to me, and I've been 'pining' after his lynch since the beginning of day 2. There's no reason for me to not vote there when Alisae already has. All I ask of you is that if you are town, at least ISO gamma/pine when you have time and give thoughts. If I'm wrong about you being scum, then I'll admit it, but I still think you are for the time being. My opinion probably doesn't matter much though.
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Post #3431 (isolation #233) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:17 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
That read list by gamma is really bad lol. Idc if he calls me scum, since that seems to be common with everyone in the game besides
Alisae (funny how nobody looks at that and wonders why scum would also call me scum if I was on their team), but him putting Sonia there is just bad. Her point about voting Nos and never being on a townie wagon was a very good one. Nos' wagon was counter to towns, and scum didn't need to go there. There was no reason to buss Nos on D1, so I think that makes Sonia pretty obvious town.
I like this though. Gamma's reads pretty much solidify my thoughts on him being scum. Scum this game keep trying to go after either easy lynchbait (me) or discredit obvious town like Alisae. Sonia is also pretty high on the TRs for anyone that actually looks at it from a town point of view, so when Kyouko and Gamma go after her, it also shows their connection. Pine going after Alisae, which Nos also did, shows their connection. I think scum have made the mistake here of continuing to go after the easy town lynchbait rather than ever reevaluating the game after things like Nos' flip. Any smart town would see the Nos flip and know who to peg as town due to that, so going after Sonia and Alisae just seems like bad reaching. They also obviously won't call each other scum, so it just proves my point I think.
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Post #3436 (isolation #234) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:32 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
In post 3432, Alisae wrote:I also see a Gamma, Titus, Pine scumteam being a thing if Elbrin is right about his shit.
Think about it. Titus never agreed to the early wagon D1 but goes on it anyways becuase most of her townreads were on it. Sheep and a shitty attmempt at a bus.
Titus also refuses to think that Pine is scum.
But if this is true, then how Titus was cleared by a gunsmith is wierd unless the following is true: Cabd lied about clearing Titus.
If Cabd didn't post that he investigated Titus and didn't find a gun, id agree with everything you just said. She's pinged my radar hard all game long, but the fact that Cabd didn't find anything on her makes the whole thing moot I think. Unless there is a loophole where scum this game don't all need to have a gun, then she can't be scum. If there was a loophole where she is scum with a knife or something over a gun, then it kind of eliminates the entire point of a gunsmith. I can't really see how that's possible, so I have to believe she's town even though it goes against my gut. If she does turn out to be scum post-game, then I'll be pissed lol. I just don't see it though. We can't gamble on some weird loophole working against a gunsmith here. The only killing role that 'should' be able to escape a positive investigation from a gunsmith is an SK (possibly killing with knives instead of gun), but even that isn't normal. I know Titus isn't the SK, so she has to be town.
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Post #3438 (isolation #235) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:36 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
And if Cabd lied for some completely unknown, irrational reason, then we could blame him post-game, but there's literally no reason for him to have role claimed with a lie there. He got himself NK'd due to his claim, so I'm pretty positive he was telling the truth. If not, then town will lose due to his investigation. I just don't believe he'd lie for absolutely no reason.
In post 3421, Alisae wrote:Hey Elbrin, how about you go into my ISO and read all my recent posts about Pine and then tell me whatchu think of him.
I have read them and was not convinced. Sorry friend. :/
Like it was all "pine is scum cuz he disregarded me and then he faked a double vote" and I'm all "those things aren't AI"
He's scum for other reasons, but the most recent one was his vote on Alisae earlier today. Alisae is all but confirmed to not be scum after the Nos NK. Voting Alisae is so anti-town that there's no excuse for it. He also has ignored kyouko's wagon entirely (not even acknowledging its existence at the time), which makes me think they're a team. Do you know who also voted Alisae claiming she was the SK over actually trying to vote scum? Nos.
Since you aren't convinced about Pine, then give your reasons for TRing him. I'm curious to see why anyone would. At best, he should be a null read based on his content and votes (always on town). He pushes for town wagons and then when we get a scum flip due to Alisae's NK, he pushes for her lynch. Damning IMO
In post 3421, Alisae wrote:Hey Elbrin, how about you go into my ISO and read all my recent posts about Pine and then tell me whatchu think of him.
I have read them and was not convinced. Sorry friend. :/
Like it was all "pine is scum cuz he disregarded me and then he faked a double vote" and I'm all "those things aren't AI"
And the other posts where I quoted some of Pine's other posts including his link to Kyouko and my discussion with him about the traitor crumb?
Also it's not the doublevote itself, it's the tone that striked me as frustrated scum.
I'm p sure I saw the traitorcrumbdiscussion bit? That was the "pine discredited me" part I mentioned. I wasn't really sold.
His double vote didn't strike me as fake. I mean I get the tone reading bit, I myself play largely by sense of smell, but I didn't see it there. It seemed a natural reaction? He thinks tywin is obvscum. He wants tywin dead like yesterday.
Everyone in the game thinks I'm obv scum and want me lynched. The problem here is that unless you believe I'm the only scum, and Nos was my partner, then you'd have to question why scum would want to bus me so hard the entire game. The only players who have ever defended me have been proven town. I think scum are ignoring these obvious points to push for the lynchbait target. They obviously know I'd be the easiest wagon to push through, and their only other option is to vote their scum buddy. There's a reason gamma/pine vote me all game long (except when they're lynching other town D1 & D2.
The reason I'm not fully convinced of Kyouko being scum compared to Pine/Gamma is that he didn't allow me to hammer myself. Scum would have no reason to derail a wagon where town lynch themselves in frustration. It would be a long con move for him to derail it there by him assuming id be the easy lynch another day and gaining town cred for derailing the hammer today. I just don't fully believe Kyouko would be that aware, and even if he is, Pine/Gamma are both good lynches that don't have anything doubtful about them in the way kyouko's did.
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Post #3448 (isolation #238) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:07 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
I'm not sold on Kyouko as stated above. My pre-flip associations aren't set in stone, and I reevaluated kyouko's slot after thinking about it. While I still lean scum for him, it isn't nearly as much as before. Some things just don't add up for a scum Kyouko. In that case, and assuming there are 3 scum left (at most IMO, so could be two), I'd add Nero/AJ as the possible third. Either way, I SR pine and gamma pretty hard. Kyouko I can at least see reasons for being town. I can't get over the Alisae vote today from Pine though, and gamma remains his usual self, so I won't be changing my opinion on him.
Anyway, I think everyone has read my thoughts on those few players. Whatever the lynch is today, people know my reads and the reasons for them. That's all I can do. Everyone else has to make up their own minds.
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Post #3487 (isolation #239) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:51 am
Postby Tywin Lannister »
Lol! Elibrin is now dealing with the same level of frustration I had. Looks like it isn't only me. It pisses you off when someone refuses to engage or listen to you in a game about engagement and listening.
Kyouko is still going after the 'easy' lynch in me. He never even once took a look at gamma or Pine. I think that confirms he is scum with them too. There's no reason for him to not have looked there at all. Even if he wanted me lynched, he would acknowledge the other players. Instead, he goes off on a tangent saying I didn't hammer myself, which is useless and completely nonsensical. Who cares? You stopped me from doing it. That's WHY I town read you, but you haven't discussed ANYTHING else, so why did you stop it? What discussion did you partake in that was different from 'let's lynch Tywin, he's scum for no reason at all, and every player in the game wants to lynch him, so with 4 scum exactly, that means Tywin is the last two scum slots. Only Tywin. Tywin is two scum at once.'
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Post #3488 (isolation #240) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:57 am
Postby Tywin Lannister »
The fact that scum have all wanted to lynch me from day 1 should be obvious to everyone, but it isn't for some reason. Only town have ever defended me, and they're all dead. Scum killed them. So who exactly do you people think my partner(s) are? Nos wanted me lynched, but whatever, I'm talking about current scum players. Who are they? Why have they wanted to lynch me so badly all game?
Try using your damn brains for once. Even if I was scum, which I'm not, there'd be more scum than me. Figure that out and figure out WHO or WHY without using pre-flip associations that will be wrong after I flip town. The fact is, you've all used those pre flip associations twice now, and both times, you've fucking looked like shit players for it, since none of you had any idea who else to go after due to never even once scum hunting without pre flips.
In post 3460, Gamma Emerald wrote:Question: was Tywin calling Titus possible scum or not earlier this game day?
@Ali: I don't really count that tbh.
Yes, but recanted when told of Cabd flip. Yet he was aware of Nos flip.
tbh, Tywin feels like scum being coached.
Explain, and why would I be coached in-thread if I was scum? How dumb are you? My scum buddies would coach in the scum thread. There is confirmed day talk, so I think you're badly reaching with nothing to grasp on to. It's kind of pathetic really.
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Post #3526 (isolation #245) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:54 am
Postby Tywin Lannister »
I'm joining this Kyouko train. I like how gamma won't mention him btw. Neither will Kyouko mention gamma. Both keep going after me, but isn't it obvious that IF I was scum, I couldn't be the only one? Why haven't those players looked at anyone else besides me? Pine too... None of those three will even look at anyone but me, and IMO, that reveals a lot. They don't know who else to go after, because nobody else has been called scum by town. Due to that, they just continue shading me while not contributing whatsoever. After my flip, I feel like the game will be solved. Even Titus won't be able to ignore these guys after I flip.
In post 3460, Gamma Emerald wrote:Question: was Tywin calling Titus possible scum or not earlier this game day?
@Ali: I don't really count that tbh.
Yes, but recanted when told of Cabd flip. Yet he was aware of Nos flip.
tbh, Tywin feels like scum being coached.
Explain, and why would I be coached in-thread if I was scum? How dumb are you? My scum buddies would coach in the scum thread. There is confirmed day talk, so I think you're badly reaching with nothing to grasp on to. It's kind of pathetic really.
Location is irrelevant. You are being coached.
I question your knowledge of Mafia in general after comments like this. Either you're just so new to the game that i should consider these revelations of yours to just be ignorance, or I have to consider you scum for reaching so badly here that it's ridiculous.
Location matters completely. What makes you think it's irrelevant? That's an idiotic statement to say the least. It really is stupid.
Also, you keep ignoring my question. Explain what is there that is coaching me. I don't see anything at all that makes your statement even true in a hypothetical basis. There's nothing there, so why say this statement? What am I being coached on?
Again, it's so big of an illogical reach that either I consider you newbtown or I consider you scum. There isn't any other explanation for saying what you have. It was shade throwing without any logic or substance behind it whatsoever.
Also, please weigh in on Kyouko. Please weigh in on Pine. Please weigh in on any player in the game besides me. Even if you truly believed I was scum (which I don't believe at all, since you're scum), you have tunneled on me for three game days now. I couldn't be the only scum, so why aren't you sorting anyone else? What possible town reason could you have for ignoring the entire rest of the game, and also specifically ignoring any mentioning of players named Kyouko and Pine?
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Post #3529 (isolation #247) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:59 am
Postby Tywin Lannister »
Kyouko:
If you aren't scum, then who do you think the last remaining scum players are? I take it that you view me as one of them, but even you admitted there are probably 4. That being said, whose the other player you SR? If I flipped town, who would be your third SR?
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Post #3686 (isolation #248) » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:39 am
Postby Tywin Lannister »
In post 3628, Alisae wrote:Dear Town:
I am very most likely to die tonight. So in the event that I die, pleaes do the following depending on Flip
A Kyouko scum flip: Gamma or Pine will be dieing tonight. If so, please lynch the other one. If they are somehow alive, lynch them both.
A Kyouko town flip: Sheep Titus and/or Sonia and Nero or Tywin will die tonight.
In post 3246, Pine wrote:Yeah okay, Alisae is basically saying that she's going to shoot anyone who is cautious about whether she's an SK or Vig. That means she ain't leashed at all. She'll go through the Town as she wants, until she gets rid of anyone who's a threat...to her.
We can lynch Tywin whenever we want. I'd like to shake this tree while we still have people with brains to do the shaking.
VOTE: Alisae
Okay this might be scum
NOW you see it? lol
I'm guessing gamma knows Kyouko will flip scum and is trying to avoid the NK from Alisae.
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Post #3716 (isolation #250) » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:41 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
This is the best day ever. All three of my SRs have had wagons today.
I think everyone can agree that gamma is scummy af. Kyouko was always the iffy one IMO out of pine/gamma/Kyouko. Gamma always seemed to be the obvious one.
If we are going there, I'm joining along. This gives me lots of hope in town that gamma is finally getting noticed. It's the best news I've seen since Nos got NK'd. Pine's post crying about Alisae being a vig was great too. Even gamma had no choice but to call it scummy. I feel like things have been solved here. It's also funny that everyone who goes against Alisae has more or less outed themselves as scum and gets wagoned for it. I think that will go down as the game loser for scum. Whoever decided that scum should shade Alisae really miscalculated.
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Post #3718 (isolation #251) » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:03 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
In post 3661, Gamma Emerald wrote:I don't think I'm arguing that
I'm saying Tywin is scum
I'm saying ssbm is town based on that
unless you refer to something else
You've said this for three days, but won't ever try to find any other scum, which IMO shows more than enough. You obviously don't know any other town you can shade and get an easy lynch from. You've focuses only on me the entire game and have ignored everyone else, although you convienently end up on every town wagon just the same. Funny how that's worked out.
If I was scum, then me never being on a single town lynch would look awfully bad for townies like you, who lynched town without reason. Your reads have all been wrong, so the fact that you've focused your entire attention all game on me would probably make you at least question if you were right/wrong at some point. I know that I reevaluate my reads all the time when warranted, and in games where I've lynched multiple townies, I reevaluate my entire approach. You haven't done it once, and I believe you've just continued
with the mindset you have due to scum telling you 'Tywin is the easiest town to lynch, so keep going after him' in your maf chat. You also have shaded Sonia and Nero, whom I suspect are the other 'easier' lynches here. After all the shade you've thrown at me and a select few other players, not even once have you engaged these players or tried to sort them. Everything you post is shade throwing without any substance or proof backing it up. You misrep consistently, and even if you were town and believed those statements, never asking questions or trying to find the truth is absolutely a scum tell. Pine has done the same things really, but at least you've finally admitted that he is possible scum after his 'crying about Alisae shooting scum' post. I think you recognize that if Kyouko gets lynched, you or pine are Alisae's targets, so you chose to throw shade at Pine in hopes it gives you Town Cred.
Anyway, I'm glad to see any of you go, but I'll even say this: if you flip town, Alisae should shoot me. If you were town and believed truly that I was scum, you'd take this trade in a heartbeat. In my position, I truly believe you, Pine, and probably Kyouko are scum, so I'll gladly take the trade 1 for 1. Pine crying about her 'not being on a leash' after NKing scum last night was probably the biggest scum tell in the game, since he clearly doesn't want to trade. There are just some inherently town thought-processes that aren't fakeable as scum, and Alisae being the X-factor has exposed it IMO.
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Post #3719 (isolation #252) » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:04 pm
Postby Tywin Lannister »
In post 3717, Alisae wrote:Hey Tywin remember that one time I made you super frustrated really easily? Good times.
Lol isn't it obvious that I get super frustrated regardless? But yes, if/when town wins, you'd be hands down the MVP with your carry. I knew you were good at this.
In post 3718, Tywin Lannister wrote:If I was scum, then me never being on a single town lynch would look awfully bad for townies like you, who lynched town without reason. Your reads have all been wrong, so the fact that you've focused your entire attention all game on me would probably make you at least question if you were right/wrong at some point. I know that I reevaluate my reads all the time when warranted, and in games where I've lynched multiple townies, I reevaluate my entire approach. You haven't done it once, and I believe you've just continued
To be fair, right now you're discribing Titus.
That point hasn't been lost on me, but she's frustrated the hell out of me since D1. Since she is most likely confirmed town, I just ignore her at this point and accept that her vote will always land on me. It is what it is. Gamma is def scum though. Titus' play is just so odd to me that i think it's just how she is. I scum read her all the way up until Cabd confirmed her, so it isn't like i didn't apply this to her. Even Elibrin scum reads her for it now, which I think shows it isn't just me whose been frustrated by her this game. I really want to see what she flips after the game. Honestly, I'd say she was the traitor is Cloud didn't already flip it, since I don't think there are two traitors in games. Shes clearly not full-blown scum due to no gun, but her play just doesn't make sense to me. I'm rambling/repeating myself at this point, but I really want to see her flip post-game and ask what was up, because I don't think her meta is this bad in other games. Maybe I just pissed her off enough D1 that she's been in YOLO/F It mode ever since.
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Post #3829 (isolation #254) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:39 am
Postby Tywin Lannister »
Elibrin, I like that you're reevaluating everything, and I'm pretty positive you're town, so 'if' you have the time, any updated thoughts would be welcome.
I still believe at least 1-2 scum are within the gamma/pine/Kyouko bloc. I'm almost sure of it, to the point where I think I'd be willing to bet the game on it. I'm pretty sure it's already been established that if even one of them flip town, I'm the next NK target by Alisae. So I'm putting my money where my mouth is more or less by advocating those three.
Yes, the lynches have swung between these three (mainly due to Alisae leading the charge), but I'm confident in voting any of them. All three are my top SRs. I can't throw Titus in there (as much as it goes against my gut read, I can't deny the Cabd investigation), and Nero is the only slot I'm more or less null on. I don't believe Sonia is scum, and I know Alisae isn't scum. Due to me knowing my own alignment, I know I'm scum. AJ used to be a scum read on D1, but I've largely moved him to town due to this day's posts, all of which I've liked from him. So the only iffy player on these wagons IMO is Nero, but I don't SR him like I do the three I've mentioned for the past two day phases.
Did you not scum read Pine for his post crying about Alisae NKing scum and her 'not being leashed'. I thought that was a huge scum tell. Gamma also strikes me as pretty sure scum, so I'm more than okay with lynching him. I've said it a lot, but Kyouko seems to me to be the only questionable lynch of those three. I still SR him though.
I just think we need to lynch gamma or pine and if it fails, go ahead and NK me. It's a win-win IMO.
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Post #3837 (isolation #259) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:02 am
Postby Tywin Lannister »
Pine: what's your case on Nero?
I really like that Kyouko/pine/gamma won't vote each other. It just seems telling to me. Those vote counts are looking good if you ask me. The three scum reads are voting random one-offs or me, but none will join the other's wagons at any point.