Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[Ouroboros]

My ram read changed because I interpreted stuff that he had done earlier in the game differently over time. That's all I can say about it. If you have to vote me or refuse to vote with me because of it that's your prerogative.

Why are we doing set up spec with no flips?

This seems weird, and its something scum try to do before town.

I've seen ramcius do this before as town, I think he's just lynchbait this game.

[Ouroboros]

Kaede I don't stop rereading games.

[Ouroboros]

okay those reactions are all I need from Venturi.

vetoing that wagon.

BE A REAL MAN AND VOTE HERE

VOTE: wilky

Verylazy is also acceptable wagon

Bullshit dude you've been looking for an excuse to get off ever since you got off and those posts were clearly coached, like all of them coming at once is so fucking transparently the team coaching them in scum PT.
Are you the scum in yourself and Bear?

[Ouroboros]

Hebichan why did you unvote and why did you vote Davesaz of all people?

[Ouroboros]

Man your arrogance in thinking that you can try to strongarm a defense of your partner here is staggering.

[Ouroboros]

Okay I'm pissed off at the level of disrespect here: I'll tryhard this and make a case.

We are not lynching anyone besides Ventriloquist I will completely throw this game on its head to make sure this happens. You think that I'm scum then you can help me bus because I

100% promise

that if I am scum I am bussing.

[Ouroboros]

Get bent my reads were bad because I had a bunch of shitheads making shit wagons on me. This isn't about my reads this is about Ventriloquist being obvious scum and you not being bad enough to be this far off course.

[Ouroboros]

I claim masons with whoever is being wagoned that isn't Ventriloquist.

you’re the one whose off course here.

grow a pair and join the REAL MEN

Be a better scum player next time

[Ouroboros]

Actually you know what I genuinely think that making a case is -equity here and that just focusing on core points and yelling at people to vote Ventriloquist is going to have better results so

[Ouroboros]

Okay so I'm locking in here

Ventriloquist is lockscum
Impossibear is lockscum
MWNN is probably scum

VOTE: Ventriloquist

You're literally like a broken record - how rudimentary is this logic? Impossibear doesn't agree with you so Impossibear must be scum? In what world would a mafia aligned player defend another mafia aligned player so damn hard, knowing that they would both go down together?

MWNN has not given substantial reasons for any of his votes, he has simply changed it several times and given some vague reasoning which never really materialises - once more he always changes his vote back to whatever Ouroboros is going with, despite voting elsewhere briefly (to create the illusion of actually having his own voice) - Given the way in which MWNN and REALMEN instantly rallied around you, it wouldn't surprise me if you're all scum together. Ouroboros 'probably' reading MWNN makes perfect sense here, making it seem like MWNN is on his radar as a bad guy (thus distancing himself) yet never putting him at the top, therefore not having to consider lynching him.

Taking the saying of the best defense is a good offense to a whole new level.

Oh, so it's gonna be one of those games

AKA, literally every game I'm in

You're reading me as scum but you think this whole don't lynch me because I always get lynched card isn't dubious?

ETL you have displayed absolutely zero respect for my reads earlier, my scumread on Ventriloquist or my own ability to look into the wagon.
If you don't understand why I am scumreading the slot then you certainly shouldn't be saying shit about me being oblivious to the development of the wagon.
I echo the same general ideas that Alchemist had about the way they talk to me being extremely scum leaning but I have very specific ideas here as opposed to Alchemist's vague idea.

Also in defense of Ventriloquist, you've cited MWNN and RMOJ as your reasons for opposing the wagon development.
This doesn't pan out well because although they are voting, neither of their votes are particularly enthusiastic in a way that signifies that they couldn't be scum bussing.

RealMenOnlyJungle has several times after he joined the wagon tried to be like HEY LETS WAGON VERYLAZY INSTEAD.
MWNN took a lot of prompting and comments about his likeliness of being aligned with Ventriloquist before he decided to vote there and hasn't specifically pushed it himself.

Your engagement with me has also been fundamentally monodirectional: rather than trying to understand why my read is what it is you've gotten mad at me for not sharing your reads and been like HEY YOU SHOULD BE READING THIS INSTEAD. I'm not going to claim to be perfect town. But when you make a list of people who can read you and then say that you're a better scum player it makes me extremely skeptical of your ability to fairly judge how good you are: there is literally no one on this site who can claim that they can read me among several people who have told me they've read every single game I've played, and I have one of the largest bodies of work of anyone on this site.

I'm not townreading lazy worth shit: it's completely null. I simply think that the wagon on them is highly liable to be a scum counterwagon.

When bad town starts running the game, it becomes clear that we have already lost.

Don't fail to make any mental effort to appreciate why I'm scumreading a slot then call me bad town for faiing to scumread it, assuming you're town.

Never, ever, ever fail to lynch this slot tomorrow if (when) Ventriloquist flips scum. Don't cop them, don't investigate them, don't discuss with them, just quicklynch them.

It isn't fair to say ETL showed no respect for your reads earlier - fact of the matter is they went through all the posts on page 16 and ultimately decided they didn't agree with your reads - Impossibear still took the time to hear you out at least. Meanwhile, you've ignored the vast majority of Impossibear's posts - posts which actually analyse a huge quantity of players posts. Nice try discrediting the reads since she disagreed with you though, I guess you like to manipulate facts.

MWNN was never being scumread by anyone else as my teammate, only you - when in actuality the close connection you've had with each other - MWNN voting in a similar way to you, and you keeping MWNN at just enough arm's distance to avoid suspicion, actually reads as you two working together from where I'm reading. MWNN did not want to vote for me but eventually came around to the idea...almost as if it was inevitable hey - and his reasoning was because 'I'm not a leader' wow, just wow.

You can already see Ouroboros rubbing their hands with this quote - 'When bad town starts running the game, it becomes clear that we have already lost'

I backed off on Ventriloquist because I regretted actually showing that scumread because I wanted to see how he'd develop without me doing anything.

I later decided I was sure enough that he was scum and I just went for it.

My initial posts had some vague reads, sure (an idea about Tchill, genuinely my first week on this forum - I assumed it was credible to consider the jester role) and what I said about Wilky didn't bring anything new to the table I'll admit - but given that I hadn't said anything up to that point and the thread was already blowing up I obviously had to show my face, and in the absence of having any significant reads I just said some general observations because I thought it was more productive than, hey, I don't know, jumping onto a voting bandwagon with no reasoning. On top of that, I did vote for Ramcius and a gave strong reasoning for doing so.

Meanwhile you chose to take advantage of my lack of experience and turn it into a 'scumread' - then popped some joke, palming it off as a 'meme' when it didn't go your way. As soon as the pressure came off and I'd left the forum you got back onto my wagon, knowing I wasn't around to defend myself.

Yeah I could get on board with a Vent wagon too

Is it not possible Tchill has a jester role of some sort? Not suggesting an insta win but I don't see how his claim could be helpful to town otherwise.

It wouldn't surprise me if Wilky has done research and is relying on the miller claim because he realises the host has done this before, especially since he chose to highlight that it wasn't far fetched for there to be 2 millers again. As Alchemist said though, this is relying on some pretty niche assumptions so I'm not buying it just yet.

Very suspicious post

Almost forgot, might as well elaborate on why I find this post very suspicious, because why not

He uses some rather

absurd

leaps in logic in two separate cases to paint a narrative picture about these two players, deliberately ignoring Occam's Razor in favor of stirring up WIFOM.

What is more likely? That TChill is running a Jester gambit? Or that TChill is fakeclaiming? TChill's was by far the least believable claim so far, and the most awkward (considering Kaede is mod-confirmed). By bringing up some a longshot possiblity, Vent is indirectly mounting a soft defense of TChill.

Simultaneously, he attempts to cast suspicion on Wilky with a similarly absurd leap. What's more likely? That Wilky is claiming Miller truthfully in a game run by a mod who apparently has a habit of these kinds of setup quirks? Or that Wilky is deliberately playing off mod meta to mount a roundabout fakeclaim gambit, with a claim that is by its nature instantly considered suspect by default?

I don't like that whatsoever. And after we get the VC I might consider switching my vote right now.

Maybe fakeclaiming is more likely, but that doesn't mean I wasn't trying to help. Either way, I acknowledged that his claim was not believable WHICH IS WHY I suggested joker in the first place, why else make yourself so lynchable? But if you were game for a Tchill lynch and the jester possibility really is so absurd, then why aren't you voting for them instead?

I never made a strong claim against Wilky, but it was odd how he said it wouldn't be far-fetched to have another game with 2 millers when this moderator has done it before. It's like he'd done his research, found the link then knew it was credible because it isn't the first time. I wasn't saying this was the case but it wasn't inaccurate to discuss.

so you vote town because you're not 'man' enough to cope with resistance on lynching scum?

fuck off. jingle was clearly wrong about you. and i'm the one who said you had no skill. i see i was right. go away.

fuck off both of you. idiots.

towns these days are garbage. i don't know why i bother with discussion.

wait didn't someone just say this is what you do as scum

And last but not least, play nice people - we are all here to have fun, are we not?

I've had my say so, up to you guys now.

Also, VOTE: MWNN - my nomination, if Ouroboros truly does think he is 'probably' scum then he can prove it.

If this guy doesn't have an alternative PT to be posting in, why the fuck is he making several separate posts in several separate posts?
This is an individual account, not a hydra, and given that they are new they don't have the ability to even make PTs.

Where is he making these separate posts properly forum formatted to be posted together when, if he's town, doesn't have access to any MS PTs?
Why is he taking so long and waiting to post everything together in the first place? What reasoning makes sense there besides him being scum who was holding off to let his team critique his posting?

Town has zero motivation to delay responses until later since clearly he had written these well in advance of 2:23- scum who is getting scumread because of their bad play and wanting team support does.

[Ouroboros]

Actually you know what I genuinely think that making a case is -equity here and that just focusing on core points and yelling at people to vote Ventriloquist is going to have better results so

disregarding a MAN veto is -equity for the entire town

Treating this as a guilty on Ventriloquists scumflip. bye.

[Ouroboros]

Actually you know what I genuinely think that making a case is -equity here and that just focusing on core points and yelling at people to vote Ventriloquist is going to have better results so

disregarding a MAN veto is -equity for the entire town

Treating this as a guilty on Ventriloquists scumflip. bye.

[Ouroboros]

HEBICHAN, WHY HAVE YOU TWICE TRIED TO CREATE COUNTERWAGONS TO VENTRILOQUIST NOW?

[Ouroboros]

I'm waiting for you to defend your buddy more let's hear it

REAL MEN know that ventriloquists is flipping town

just like the rest of your UNMANLY pushes from 2018

I am bad in games with people who make me play bad in games: people doing shit like Kaede wants to do. I had more than enough time and space to get on track and I will carry this one.

[Ouroboros]

Also please note WRT RMOJ that he did absolutely nothing in terms of resisting this wagon when it looked like it was going through: he didn't want to be seen jumping off of the wagon while it seemed like it was going through.
As soon as it looked like things were stalling with a couple jumps off he's off looking for alternative wagons and using the exact same posts that he coached Ventriloquist as an excuse.

MAN vetos exist to prevent you from playing bad in yet another game

if you’re playing poker you would have lost your bankroll 10 times over with all those failed all-in pushes you make

good thing we don’t charge anything here!

I mean you can keep discrediting me but I don't think it's going to do you a lot of good here. I found myself again on other mafia sites getting away from my reputation. I solved the recently finished micro D1.
You should have just stuck with bussing, I would probably have lynched Impossibear before you just on principle.

[Ouroboros]

If this guy doesn't have an alternative PT to be posting in, why the fuck is he making several separate posts in several separate posts?
This is an individual account, not a hydra, and given that they are new they don't have the ability to even make PTs.

Where is he making these separate posts properly forum formatted to be posted together when, if he's town, doesn't have access to any MS PTs?
Why is he taking so long and waiting to post everything together in the first place? What reasoning makes sense there besides him being scum who was holding off to let his team critique his posting?

Town has zero motivation to delay responses until later since clearly he had written these well in advance of 2:23- scum who is getting scumread because of their bad play and wanting team support does.

[Ouroboros]

Again in the world where you're town I can't help not caring if you get mislynched any more than I care if Impossibear gets mislynched.
There's a lot of big game talking and then backing down when results are actually being expected of you.

people here all know that you’ve lost your MANhood

nobody here’s actually going to follow you, real talk, MAN to man

I’m offering you a chance to grow your pair back

[Ouroboros]

HOLY FUCK HE DID NOT TYPE THOSE POSTS IN 16 SECONDS AND 11 SECONDS.

KEEP THIS IN MIND FOR WHAT FUTURE

KAEDE YOU'RE HARD PLAYING SCUM WINCON RIGHT NOW

[Ouroboros]

198 words in 14 seconds - aka - over 800 words per minute

is that what you think happened plausibly or do you just not want to vote with me because you think I can as scum plan for people scumclaiming all over the thread?

[Ouroboros]

thank you dear annie. sorry if I'm frustrated but RMOJ is intentionally pressing my buttons as scum.

[Ouroboros]

No one is capable of typing 800 words per minute.
Like the fastest typers in the world I guarantee you are not even close to that.

There si some level of plausibility to an argument that he made all these posts and then split them up HOWEVER if he was doing that all he needs to do is copy and paste it from the central source

15 seconds strongly suggests backing to take the quote from scum topic and back

actually i'm going to test something

[Ouroboros]

It isn't fair to say ETL showed no respect for your reads earlier - fact of the matter is they went through all the posts on page 16 and ultimately decided they didn't agree with your reads - Impossibear still took the time to hear you out at least. Meanwhile, you've ignored the vast majority of Impossibear's posts - posts which actually analyse a huge quantity of players posts. Nice try discrediting the reads since she disagreed with you though, I guess you like to manipulate facts.

MWNN was never being scumread by anyone else as my teammate, only you - when in actuality the close connection you've had with each other - MWNN voting in a similar way to you, and you keeping MWNN at just enough arm's distance to avoid suspicion, actually reads as you two working together from where I'm reading. MWNN did not want to vote for me but eventually came around to the idea...almost as if it was inevitable hey - and his reasoning was because 'I'm not a leader' wow, just wow.

You can already see Ouroboros rubbing their hands with this quote - 'When bad town starts running the game, it becomes clear that we have already lost'

[Ouroboros]

Actually I tried to copy and paste from a pt let me do that again

[Ouroboros]

elcome to your Neighborhood PT!

Members:

Kokichi Oma
Thor665 Joey_
Brassherald

{{Game Thread}}

- Members of the Neighbourhood can use this topic to talk only during the nightphase.
- If you have not already done so, please read up on the game rules. All rules for the game apply here as well.

If you have any questions or concerns whatsoever, do not hesitate to ask me!

Good luck, and have fun!

[Ouroboros]

I don't want to change my thing to seconds Kaede, can you give me time stamps on these last 5 posts

[Ouroboros]

14 SECONDS
17 SECONDS

TO GO TAKE A POST FROM A PT.

LETS TRY SOMETHING NEW

[Ouroboros]

Again in the world where you're town I can't help not caring if you get mislynched any more than I care if Impossibear gets mislynched.
There's a lot of big game talking and then backing down when results are actually being expected of you.

people here all know that you’ve lost your MANhood

nobody here’s actually going to follow you, real talk, MAN to man

I’m offering you a chance to grow your pair back

[Ouroboros]

cAN i GET A TIMER ON THOSE LAST 2

[Ouroboros]

9 seconds is copy and pasting it from another tab INCLUDING THE TIME TO QUOTE AND CUT OUT THE QUOTE TABS.
Notepad would be shorter than that imo

[Ouroboros]

ONE MORE TEST

Tbh while i think this timing theory is kind of ridiculous, it may actually be what happened. Hence i want more ppl to give their opinion on it too.

I don't see any likely alternatives and I don't think this is even close to the main reason to scumread them

[Ouroboros]

POSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOST

[Ouroboros]

^^ copy and pasting from notepad

[Ouroboros]

And btw even if their excuse is that they copied from notepad or whatever, they did it in format, they're somewhat slower than me (which is believable)

why is town taking the time to do all this instead of posting stuff as they go? feels like it's coming from someone who has excessive interest in curating what they put out

btw notice RMOJ just disappeared: he went to scum topic to start figuring out what the excuse that Ventriloquist is going to use will be.

[Ouroboros]

Like I want to go into a ton of nitty gritty about scum indicative phrasings that they've used but it's all moonspeak to y'all. There's so much I see from them that's just knee jerk scum but I can't say it in a way you'll all understand

[Ouroboros]

I'M HERE TO SMITE SCUMFIDELS AND POWER DAYVIG TITUS AND I'M ALL OUT OF DAYVIGS

[Ouroboros]

Yeah that's convinced me on vent what's the current vote count?

Vent is currently at L-2.

Ventriloquist (8):

Ouroboros, ManWithNoName, MariaR, Wraith, Alchemist21, Kaede Akamatsu, davesaz, Tchill13

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-20 12:33:41)

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

Pls just give me my Vent lynch. if you all want to pretend the game is solved when I'm gone then just sheep me on {RMOJ, MWNN, BEAR} containing at least one scum but most likely exactly 2.

[Ouroboros]

tldr I got from this
Vent had posts saved in notepad or some shit
and they have to be scum because of it orrrr

If you write your posts in notepad, why do you designate them as separate posts and why does he have all the proper MS formatting and stuff

but like that's the weakest in my long list of reasons to think that the venquilotristmeister is the scums.

[Ouroboros]

yeah but you have a level of experience with MS functionality that I'm not expecting to see from him and also have like w/e omg can we just kill the scums

[Ouroboros]

why don't you just vote so we can get this over with then lol

I've seen too many games where scum was caught and town got disinterested and decided to go do something else for no reason

[Ouroboros]

Is that necessarily a scum response tho

[Ouroboros]

ETL has asked for invests several times and could be godfather, don't waste an invest unles sits a role cop

[Ouroboros]

I'm sorry if you feel that way and are town: but the message was made clear to me by basically everyone after team mafia that I made the wrong move sacrificing my win equity for a healthy gamestate. I'm not doing that anymore.

[Ouroboros]

I do recognize that I could be wrong I just don't think I can do anything more to help town win than what I've done so far.

[Ouroboros]

I can't care until I know your alignment.

[Ouroboros]

Nothing to say preflip.

[Ouroboros]

Locktown

We're still town
Kaede town
Alchemist town: meta
Ankamius town: that's almost never a scum response here imo
Manwithnoname goes up to town: their play doesn't make sense if they're not specifically SvS with ventriloquist
davesaz town- no longer negotiable

I am almost certain that there is 0 scum in this list

Wilky town: felt like a town reaction in the long run
Tchill feel like scum wouldn't have claimed there but again negotiable
Dunn: trusting my initial good gut feelings

Impossibear / Jungle: Feel like there's a scum in the pair but I can't be sure.

Hebichan: Still meh + jumped off of a town flip.
Nero cain: was townreading based on stuff that doesn't point to town in the same way if Nero and Maria are both scum. In fact I am tempted to put this lower but I don't want to actually review and see how I feel

Generally bad

verylazy: no reason to townread, generally bad ISO.

Scum:

MariaR: explicitly scumreading, have seen a tell that heavily leans scum, if I die I can't give it 100% but this has very good scum equity and is likely to be endgame scum if we do end up dead tonight
Wraith: The post that they made about not making preflip associatives is almost certainly a scumclaim in a Ventrilo!town universe

[Ouroboros]

Ramcius should be in lower town somewhere btw

[Ouroboros]

yeah i reviewed NC is only towny with a presumption of Maria town that I'm not willing to presume right now

[Ouroboros]

Assuming this is a townflip and I dropped the ball: that's what their twilight reaction points to at any rate.

[Ouroboros]

OBviously if it flips scum go off the original list.

[Ouroboros]

Other specific interactions that I want to call out:

Maria and Nero both gain a fuckton of scum equity if the other of the pair flips scum.
Nero scum almost always means Dunn town

[Ouroboros]

Anony will control the vote and lead this hydra if we're alive tomorrow (I still expect to not be) glgl

[Ouroboros]

Stand by saying not to investigate Bear, even if that means just presuming them as town by default: they're the single slot that has any specific godfather equity in this game.

[Ouroboros]

@Bear if we're both still alive I'll try my best to work with y'all tomorrow.

Believe me I was a lot less certain of this flip than I outwardly stated but I felt this flip was so, so important for me in terms of dividing which universe it was
I think that this being a townflip gives you at the very least some town equity, it locktowns MWNN and Davesaz fmpov, and it tells me a lot about Maria's interactions

[Ouroboros]

Anyway I strongly advise powerlynching Wraith, I should have considered it today, if I had done a better job being right on my tertiary reads and their interactions
like I knew scum RMOJ would never try to fight me and I still went off a line of reasoning involving them being scum defending which was really bad.

Anyway glgl my townreads are better than my scumreads etc etc

[Ouroboros]

I htink maria is in wrong category ftr

like

I want to put her in normal scum but she's slightly below that

I'm gonna reshape my readslist

[Ouroboros]

{RC, Kaede}
{Alchemist, Ankamius, MWNN, Davesaz}
{Wilky, NC (mariatown)}
{Ramcius}
{Tchill, Dunnstral}
-null line- Impossibear/jungle outside of typical reads
{Verylazy, NC (mariascum)}
{MariaR, Hebichan}
{}
{Wraith}

[Ouroboros]

this page really really is making me perk my brow

tbh I wanted to just declare you lockscum and then read you based off of whether I got killed or not

[Ouroboros]

Hrm.
You mind getting copped RC?
Pedit: I don't think you'd sr me here unless you were scum atm but we'll see

yes I absolutely mind I have a hydra partner to make me a free read and scum still have so much reason to want to kill me
burning investigations on me in an overlapping nightkill is a massive hit to town's win equity.

[Ouroboros]

I mean I could just be knee jerk reacting
I never called you lockscum, I don't have a clear read on you.

But what I do have says >rand scum.

I would prefer to not say anything about you because I prefer to hold off on reads that I can have 100% until I have them 100% but we're still the nightkill that makes the most sense and I can't leave that unsaid.

[Ouroboros]

Ramcius should be a LOT lower by the way. I don't know what my initial gut feelings were what they are, etc etc.

Wait are you claiming that you scumread Dunnstral? O.o

[Ouroboros]

ok...
yeah put ramcius at the first category below null

[Ouroboros]

trying to put together a new scumteam

{Wraith/Ramcius} maybe then who

[Ouroboros]

Idk if I buy that

why is wraith not scum tho

[Ouroboros]

Wilky could actually still be scum tbh

[Ouroboros]

W/e I stand by top 4 townreads that's what I want sticking to tomorrow

Maria I am like never alive tomorrow lol

[Ouroboros]

RC, any idea why Ghost felt weird to me for a while?

I've never actually played with her before so I don't know her style myself.

curious why you don't immediately assume that's because she's scum and go off on me for that.

[Ouroboros]

alch town
dunnstral
wilky
nero?
ram
hebi
realman bottom

[Ouroboros]

at several points in the game ghost was deliberately pushing stuff she didn't believe because she wanted reactions, I would assume that's it. I find it curious that in this hydra you go off of your townread on me versus a 'omgshesweird' read on Anony though

[Ouroboros]

that requires me to be alive in the AM though

[Ouroboros]

I mean if they want to strongman Kaede I guess that makes sense.

Why is town you this confident on me surviving the night anyway? Reads more like scum trying to come into tomorrow with OMG I WOULD NEVER HAVE KILLED HIM.

[Ouroboros]

I didn't reread the game at all overnight so I'm a little distant from this game: I'll catch up on Tuesday probably.

[Ouroboros]

VOTE: Real Men Only Jungle

Vote goes here for now

Don't put dunnstral above 4-5 votes.

[Ouroboros]

I still strongly believe both Impossibear and RMOJ should die for how hard they both defended this slot but I'm going to decide how much equity I believe either of them have before I go down that road.

[Ouroboros]

Again, I have a lot of sitting and thinking to do before I go anywhere. Mostly about my townreads.

I strongly disbelieve that anything about RMOJ's role is clearing but I'll concede to not going after him today.

[Ouroboros]

Like I'm pretty close to having autowin via poe already if I hash it out and get all the locktowns I can

[Ouroboros]

Wraith I believe is spewed town: that read may be pretty contentious so I'm going to put it out there now to follow up on later.

[Ouroboros]

@Mod - Did we ever get a replacement for verylazy's slot?

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

RMOJ I don't care if I underperform with towns who are shitty to me
I have 0 reservations about lynching you and having you flip town after you shat on me all of D1 and were proven wrong and are now calling me out for having bussed ventriloquist in a situation where based on his reaction to the situation it was pretty obviously not a bus. If I have to lynch you to get back to even standing I have no problems doing so then scumhunting again tomorrow.

[Ouroboros]

Like I already think that you're at least second to top bracket scum equity based on associations: talk shit about my scumgame or call me scum again and you are lynched today.
If you're town go do something useful and don't hard defend scum again.

[Ouroboros]

talk shit about my towngame, think the meaning was once again clear.

For the record: almost all of my last second read switches were because I thought that he was claiming town. Given that he's not town, I'm kind of in a weird position of trying to sort out which of my read 180s were based on legitimate reads of the game versus trying to find another solve of the game based on wrongful exclusion.

[Ouroboros]

Ouroboros still town obviously
Ankamius town
Wraith town
Kaede town
Alchemist21 town

that's my 100% list, I'll branch out from there

[Ouroboros]

I believe that Wilky is the lynch of the day but I'm still thinking

[Ouroboros]

So everything in the initial Wilky push from me still stands: the approach to Davesaz's claim was bad.

There's also his later day which is absolutely horrible knowing that MWNN is town, he thought MWNN/Ventriloquist were likely scumpartners but he was only willing to vote MWNN and then SR Vent if MWNN flipped scum. The scum strategy at that point seemed to be to lynch MWNN based on Vent's actions so that lines up and then the point at EOD where he eventually decides to jump to Ventriloquist when it's inevitable feels pretty bad

fwiw I dislike your jump off but my feelings on your slot are mixed because there's several points in the game that I townread. no strong read one way or the other atm

[Ouroboros]

Wilky hard pushes MWNN,

using my logic for why MWNN and Ventriloquist are connected to help push MWNN

, but never gives a read or talks to Ventriloquist at all until the lynch is inevitable where he lazy hops on.

[Ouroboros]

So lynching scum is bad for town? Ank has absolutely collapsed under a slight bit of pressure here.

VOTE: vent

L-1

Also even when he's voting Ventriloquist he's trying to setup a future mislynch.

VOTE: Wilky

[Ouroboros]

sure

[Ouroboros]

Maria I don't want to have a read on until I know for sure.
At some point she'll do something that makes me 100% certain of her alignment, until she does it's intellectually dishonest of me to say that my read on her means jack shit.

Ramcius I think is several tiers above null, most likely town as an individual and also highly likely town off of associatives unless I'm dead wrong on everything.

Tchill still a rung above null but not locktown

Verylazy/Dunn I havent' seen enough, both are somewhere below null

[Ouroboros]

oh

i forgot to mention

MY READS ARE 100% ACCURATE AND ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME WILL BE LIABILITY LYNCHED

[Ouroboros]

Yes, but not wholly written for him.

[Ouroboros]

Can I get a full readslist from you?

Do you still think Wilky is super locktown tonally like you said earlier in the game?

[Ouroboros]

Wilky scumflip probably spews both ram and tchill town btw

[Ouroboros]

Can I get a full readslist from you?

Do you still think Wilky is super locktown tonally like you said earlier in the game?

@Bear and can I get a separate response from both Jingle and ETL

[Ouroboros]

Also final and pretty damning point against Ventriloquist: why did he wait so long and post all of his major points at once?
Answer: because he posted simplified versions in scum thread and waited for his teammates to be able to review them and improve them.

'Simplified versions' - pfft, I can write for myself, thanks. You've done me a favour lynching me anyway, playing a longer game with you would be insufferable.

rebuttal

[Ouroboros]

we lynched her yesterday she flipped scum

[Ouroboros]

w8 are you like notscience

[Ouroboros]

i tr 3/3 of your scumreads wraith

[Ouroboros]

VOTE: Dunnstral

this instead

[Ouroboros]

This wagon movement on Ventriloquist is kind of sketchy.

This wagon movement on Ventriloquist is kind of sketchy.

What's sketchy about it, dunn?

The votes by Ankamius and Hebichan:

Ankamius voting for Ventriloquist while 'still catching up' - supposedly sheeping you:

UNVOTE: verylazy
VOTE: Ventriloquist

I'm still catching up, but I'm far enough to have a strong enough townread on Ouroboros that I'm comfortable sheeping them for right now.

Followed by Hebichan basically lashing back against Ventriloquist saying that T-chill is worth considering (Which isn't scummy itself, and is a sentiment other people have been sharing), on top of what looks like pretty icky timing to join the wagon

VOTE: Ventriloquist

Yeah, don't really like how hes shading t-chill as "worth considering there either.

only interaction at all with vent wagon.
wouldn't be my first lynch but if they're going to push on me they should go sooner rather than later.

yes I 100% scumread wilky over Tchill, I think Tchill leans town whereas Wilky heavily heavily leans scum by his interactions with filpped scum

[Ouroboros]

awkward

[Ouroboros]

RMOJ/Bear are off the table today for ~reasons~.

Locktown:
Ankamius
Ouroboros (AnonymousGhost + RadiantCowbells)
Kaede Akamatsu
Wraith
Alchemist21

Townreads:
Ramcius
davesaz

Mariareads:
MariaR

Slight town:
Tchill13

Nullish:
Dunnstral
Nero Cain

Pretty damn awful:
hebichan
verylazy

Absolutely awful:
Wilky

[Ouroboros]

I'm not at the point of deciding that it's harakiri time for Wilky but I do think that they're scum and the amount of people townreading them for bad reasons scares me.

[Ouroboros]

At least four of those reads are in the wrong place, I just want some soak time before I decide.

I do feel very convinced of Wilky scum and there's very little chance that I end up lynching someone else today.

[Ouroboros]

I mean I've made it super clear that I am not actually immediately supporting a Dunnstral lynch. I was only lynching him because I thought he was trying to drum up support for a wagon on me.

If you want to call it a deliberate attempt to sabotage you can do that, but I won't be voting Dunnstral for very long.

[Ouroboros]

Impossibear has received a quest, the quest was given by me. they need to perform the following actions today to complete the quest:

1. be vote #3 on a wagon today that reaches L-1, this L-1 wagon must be reflected in the vote count
2. be the hammer on today's lynch

successfully performing the above actions will complete the quest and allow them to be publically daycopped tomorrow so we get another IC or confscum.

I don't want Dunnstral to reach L-1 though.

[Ouroboros]

Hebi, do you want to just follow me around for a day and see if you're more interested tomorrow?

Why are you voting him if you don't actually want to lynch him? Just cuz you were mad?

He's sufficiently in the scumpool that I'm not going to risk him as scum getting away with trying to get me lynched.
There's very few people in this game that I wouldn't immediately attempt to lynch if they pushed on me.

[Ouroboros]

I did but more because I was temporarily irritated at Dunnstral than anything else.

[Ouroboros]

Anyway. Back to this. VOTE: Wilky

[Ouroboros]

can we just lynch wilky plspls

I can't 100% guarantee a scumflip like I was basically willing to do with ventriloquist but no one else is giving me endgame scum vibes

simplest solution to the game right now for me is wilky/wraith/verylazy of which wilky is the one that I am by far the most confident in

I don't understand why you're townreading there: can you please elucidate

[Ouroboros]

like tchill I'm explicitly not locktowning but there's so many better lynches here dear lord

[Ouroboros]

i don't know the flavour of this game given that I've never played it but I do know that wilky is scummy by play and GIF is the type of person to make a change here + setup stuff sooo yeah

[Ouroboros]

I did read impossibear's last post it's pretty fucking obvious that the scumkill wasn't on MWNN and that a save happened, presumably on me.
so it's not like it told me anything that I didn't already know?
I wanted to go SK spec mode on Impossibear but the town wincon seems incompatible with an SK so I'll give them a rest for now

I don't like how many different wagons you've pushed as counters to Wilky today.

[Ouroboros]

you never did post about that wilky reread, did you?

x_x

[Ouroboros]

if I didn't misinterpret twilight I could have probably given both clearer and better shot directions but

Wilky is the ultimate information lynch that this game has to offer and I'm pretty sure he's scum by play so I see zero reason to go elsewhere rn

[Ouroboros]

Does anyone have experience with a modified Hider like this?

No.

it's goes without a saying that scum have fakeclaims, it would be too easy to break game trough mass flavour claims, when flavour matters

that being said, people seems forgot Wraith being confident is scum not having fakeclaims D1

Where did Wraith say that? Quote it up?

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

Wraith being confident is scum not having fakeclaims D1

How is this scum indicative? I'm not following.

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

your manwagon is a bitchwagon given that you man hard defended the shit out of scum yesterday.

With Ventriloquist I was sure to the point of willing to bet my rep on in a way that none of the games you'd be comparing to are realistic comparisons to.
Wilky is a different tier of scumread where I'm like 80%ish sure that he's scum and he really needs death but I can't say that he flips scum literally all of the time.

That said: I shouldn't have to. I've earned enough trust to get this one through, particularly given that this lobby has made clear he walks to endgame if I don't stop him now.

I am willing to brute force this if necessary.

[Ouroboros]

Now: I feel pretty damn certain at that point that scum have fakeclaims because the last flip's claim is a literal scumclaim. I think it is precisely within the bounds of what GIF would do to give scum a miller role as a fakeclaim to mess with people, even if the character itself is not an actual miller. All these arguments that Wilky would not have claimed there are bullshit: scum sees the conflicting miller claims, first thing they do is mod meta. Ventriloquist even said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Wilky has done research and is relying on the miller claim because he realises the host has done this before, especially since he chose to highlight that it wasn't far fetched for there to be 2 millers again. As Alchemist said though, this is relying on some pretty niche assumptions so I'm not buying it just yet.

aka, that they would potentially be willing to jump into the miller counterclaim situation after mod metaing, and that's exactly what happened I believe.
Tchill is a lame wagon that like don't get me wrong isn't never scum but Wilky is never getting lynched with me gone with several people's attitudes so.

[Ouroboros]

Like once they see the miller counterclaim and they go back and see that there's mod meta of multiple town millers... why wouldn't they counterclaim?
This isn't a spectacularly convoluted read, you're basically assuming that scum are grossly incompetent if you think they knee jerk never counterclaim.

[Ouroboros]

Particularly given that they would know there is at least one person in this game who is aware of the mod meta who would immediately shut it down as a true counterclaim, and that person even in the last game immediately locked both millers as town based on the same mod meta.

It's a very safe counterclaim that has a lot of potential to basically hand scum the game. Scum would have CCed there.

Does that mean he's scum 100% of the time? No, I can't promise that. I think he's very very likely not town because I don't understand town him well enough to say that he NEVER plays this game as town. But I can say with 100% certainty that if he was scum with a miller fakeclaim this is exactly what it looks like.

[Ouroboros]

I am willing to brute force this if necessary.

I'm not dealing with this, again. I'm done.

Address my reasoning then. I'm not like screaming in anyone's face here and I'm a lot less opaque than I was about ventriloquist.

[Ouroboros]

Like basically everyone agrees that Wilky is scum by most of their play this game. It's not like Vent where I'm going off obscure shit.

Where we disagree is that Wilky's CC locktowns him and I believe that I have the best understanding of GIF mod meta + how scum would deal with that claim in this game. If you disagree with either my mod meta on GIF (that he would put a scum miller to fuck with me + others after I told him I literally insta ICed both miller claims in our previous game) or that scum would in fact counterclaim once they found a mod meta of multiple town millers, then talk about it.

First, I've asked you for your input, which you've repeatedly ignored. Second, what reasoning? I see zero reasoning, other than "I know wilky is scum". That's not good enough for me. Sorry.

And to be quite honest, I just don't care anymore. I was hoping today would be different since you said Ghost would be the primary poster but it has been the opposite. I've seen ONE ghost post today.

It doesn't fucking matter anyway. Jingle might continue this, but I don't think I care to.

ETL

Oh Ghost was gonna primary post when I thought I had managed to fuck up on a read of that level of certainty aka it was time for me to take a break.
I have given input: Wilky doesn't influence my readslist much. Go back to my original readslist and look at my other scumreads, Verylazy specifically.
I'm also not super good feeling about Wraith but not 100% there either. I'm hoping he actually does more at some point.

[Ouroboros]

But, like, I've given so much reasoning. Not just in favour of the miller claim being null but why it's scum indicative even.
Like if it was a miller CC and he was town not knowing the mod meta he'd have freaked out and behaved totally different there.

I also cased how his approach to MWNN vs Ventriloquist was weird, I said so much stuff.

[Ouroboros]

Step 1: receive miller fakeclaim
Step 2: Davesaz claims miller on page 1
Step 3: consternation in scum chat. what do we do here?
Step 4: Meta dive and find history of GIF putting two town millers. On top of that, 2 players are in the game who know of that mod meta (RC and Kaede Akamatsu.)
Step 5: 'counterclaim' Davesaz expecting someone to bring up the mod meta here, hence you seeking information rather than outright calling them scum.
Step 6: Ventriloquist completely avoids engaging with the Wilky wagon in any form after saying that he thinks it's possible that you're scum, instead chainsaw voting Ramcius for voting you.

[Ouroboros]

Who says that you specifically had to do it?

[Ouroboros]

I make life easy for you. aren't you thankful?

[Ouroboros]

No like I'm actually not literally 100% certain Wilky is scum. I've repeatedly asked for you to engage with me on it where I didn't for Vent because I can be persuaded here.
I made my points, asked for thoughts on it, you just got mad at me for leading the playerlist when today I've been doing so solely through strength of reasoning rather than character.

I think Wilky scum makes a shitton of sense in the gamestate particularly given Ventriloquist's approach to the slot, but like I'm open to persuading
You've made no effort to actually push Wilky scum besides to say that they're locktown because of flavor, which is... bad reasoning

And wilky, your defense keeps coming down to whether or not scum have fakeclaims and arguments that don't address the case at all so, meh.

[Ouroboros]

Because I want to save you for a LyLo mislynch Ankamius

I want to recreate the great majesty of NY184 by bussing my entire scumteam then lynching you in 3 way when you're the cop inno in a setup with confirmed no godfather

[Ouroboros]

[Ouroboros]

give us a ring ding ding, it's a beautiful day!

[Ouroboros]

You're supremely underestimating the level of competence that scum has. I'm not going to just not lynch them if you don't provide anything.

This logic has exactly the same problem as the logic you had for the Vent lynch. Namely, it presupposes RC scum. I didn't speak up about it on the Vent lynch because there was at least one player either than the two of us (Jungle) that both could and would have coached Vent. Tell me exactly who on this playerlist is both capable of and the correct type of player to coach this behavior, and I'll consider it.

I think there's a wide range of people who would check mod meta after seeing the miller claim + the fakeclaim and then suggest their teammate claim honestly.
Like it's not some super obscure thing for anyone to do and I don't know why you keep acting like it is. I'm not going to go for an 'information lynch' when Wilky IS the information lynch of this game.

Like I think that having a miller fakeclaim and seeing a miller claim is jarring enough that most people would go back and do mod meta.

[Ouroboros]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=72816 most recent one, don't remember the others and no mental energy to back rn

[Ouroboros]

FA's TRFB is another.

[Ouroboros]

well you're wrong but you're entitled to be wrong.

[Ouroboros]

No like I'm actually not literally 100% certain Wilky is scum. I've repeatedly asked for you to engage with me on it where I didn't for Vent because I can be persuaded here.
I made my points, asked for thoughts on it, you just got mad at me for leading the playerlist when today I've been doing so solely through strength of reasoning rather than character.

I think Wilky scum makes a shitton of sense in the gamestate particularly given Ventriloquist's approach to the slot, but like I'm open to persuading
You've made no effort to actually push Wilky scum besides to say that they're locktown because of flavor, which is... bad reasoning

And wilky, your defense keeps coming down to whether or not scum have fakeclaims and arguments that don't address the case at all so, meh.

Thats because there is no case to address I mean half of it is the claim and the other half is how vent acted on my slot.

There's also the fact that you used MWNN/Ventriloquist associatives to push on MWNN while saying that Vent could be scum if MWNN was scum but refusing to go the other direction until it became basically guaranteed to happen and never actually comment on Ventriloquist much at all.

[Ouroboros]

Meh. This game required that level of posting to deal with Impossibear and RMOJ both trying their hardest to prevent the Ventriloquist lynch.

[Ouroboros]

<3<3 Kaede.

And uh, no ETL. You said what you said. You might have meant something else.

[Ouroboros]

you lost your rights to a stay of execution for one day based off of yesterday, sorry.

you're also not confirmed town as of right now and until you become confirmed town I'm not going to treat you like confirmed town.

[Ouroboros]

like you call me out for abusing strength of personality but you have had 0 rebuttal to all the points I've made about wilky, you're just trying to force of personality a defense. you guys called me toxic for force of personalitying my push yesterday and yet you're trying to do the same thing today when I've gone out of my way to ground my push in stuff that can be discussed universally.

let's get the unvotes so you can get the third vote on Wilky and then we'll get the L-1 and then you can hammer them.
even if I'm wrong here you guys still completely failed to address the reasons that I've given to want this lynch.

[Ouroboros]

OK.

Let's bring Wilky down to 2 votes. If ETL hydra fails to vote them they are scumclaiming and we lynch them instead today.

[Ouroboros]

UNVOTE:

Need 1 more unvote.

[Ouroboros]

y the fuck would I ever want to play with someone like you

[Ouroboros]

think that ramcius is probably town for meta reasons. what's your wilky read?

[Ouroboros]

^

This makes no sense.

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

It's hedging on his - Wilky's - alignment.

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

?

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

I perceived it as you were hedging on your Wilky read.

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

The phrase "I don't think he's scum, but he's acting scummy," is something that scum can say in order to avoid scrutiny once a wagon flips green.

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

A better term might be 'waffling', and I use them interchangeably, so that's my fault. My bad.

It's when someone fails to make up their mind and in context of mafia it's basically where someone isn't really taking a stance on someone else's alignment. Objectively speaking, I think it's NAI - since town and scum can be indecisive (obviously one is a safer to assume that that indecisiveness is genuine i.e. town) - but post a green flip on a wagon, I have seen scum use this indecisiveness as an excuse to jump on the wagon and avoid then scrutiny post flip.

If you had to categorize your read on Wilky in one or two words i.e. null, scum, town, etc., what would it be?

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

While you're at it, can you update me on your perception/read of Ank and the Hebi slot?

Your last mention of either of them - albeit I did skim your ISO - was in 445 and was related to how they sheeped onto the Vent wagon and how you felt that that was suspicious.

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

davesaz you're deluding yourself when you say that you have meta tells to read me on. I lynched scum, stop pushing me until way later in the game thanks.

[Ouroboros]

I don't think Tchill is scum. Since people are spewing NRG secrets anyway, there was a long debate over what a hider actually is and we came to the conclusion that the hider itself is hiding behind and dying if target dies. Weak is separate. This discussion that we were having in the NRG ended up leaking to FG's D&D discord where GIF is a member and he even threw some comments in shortly before this game went to queue. Him being town with that hider role actually makes a ton of sense as a result and that's the main reason that I've been averse to his lynch for most of the game.

I also think that the specific manner of the claim is tonally highly indicative of town even if I'm not willing to call him confirmed town.

[Ouroboros]

Like in the end I see Tchill as fundamentally a lurker lynch and I'm not super enthusiastic about lurker lynches when there's people with scum equity, so~
If we were to lynch not!Wilky there's lots of better not!Wilky choices, but I still think that we should powertrain Wilky.

[Ouroboros]

One more parting shot before I get back to actually being productive.

RC agrees I'm likely the vig based on the kill last night. I am presumably going to be targeted by a cop who CANNOT target another player. RC is still attempting to policy lynch me because I'm opposing a lynch on a player that in his own words he's not 100% on for ONE DAY. Not even to guarantee a lynch on my own suspect, although I think such a lynch is clearly the best course of action for town. I'd be fine with scumhunting and finding a different candidate.

RC is, at best, antitown at the moment because he cannot stand that I don't worship the ground he stands on, and until his behavior shifts substantially I'm going to stop trying to work with him.

Actually I kind of lied there.

What I think happened is that you're scum who knew your team was in a shitty position so you made a nightkill that you could pass off as vig and claimed bulletproof gated vig to justify not dying and to justify not having to have any more vig kills. There's many ways around RMOJ including him being a scumpartner (less likely), you having a one shot strongman who is possibly even Wilky specifically (more likely), or you just flat out being a godfather which is extremely likely to exist based on the role that allows you guys to switch roles around.

I was just giving you the day off because I have better things to do, if Wilky flips scum you are going to be murdered ruthlessly regardless of what else happens.

[Ouroboros]

@Hebi

- Explain your reads.

What happened to your Scum!Alchemist read for role fishing?

What about Nero's slot and his interaction with MariaR yesterday?

You pretty much dropped every one of your D1 scum reads in favor of questioning someone who's universally town read - which by itself is pro-town since it shows progression somewhat and not just scum going along with the flow.

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

Ftr I am of the opinion that we agreed to not lynch Hebi so she could take a day off and see if she was more interested later and so making her answer questions is against the code of conduct (tm)

but Anony needs to advance her reads so whenever you are ready to get around to it please do Hebi.

[Ouroboros]

Hebi retracted her replace out at my request

[Ouroboros]

i see why people want lynch you - instead of doing something productive you complain about people trying advance game

What is your read on Dunnstral?

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

The hell? What happened to that quote?

Ghost

But yes, that's what I'm referring to.

[Ouroboros]

i see why people want lynch you - instead of doing something productive you complain about people trying advance game

What is your read on Dunnstral?

Ghost

EWBOP'd.

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

You.

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

Specifically, what's your read on Dunnstral?

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

@Ramcius

What do you think of Impossibear's theory of scum!hider TChill as a way to counter their role as Vigilante? Do you think it holds weight?

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

It happened over voice while GIF was playing music, not over text

[Ouroboros]

@Dunn - Still don't have an answer for this.

ISO edit:

Spoiler: fucking hell. i should not be playing if I'm not paying attention

think that ramcius is probably town for meta reasons. what's your wilky read?

I didn't think he was scum but he's kind of scummy in his responses to you/not really making a case for himself here

^

This makes no sense.

Ghost

Go on

It's hedging on his - Wilky's - alignment.

Ghost

I don't know where my head's at these days...

@Ram - I agree with Impossibear's Occam Razor argument on scum!TChill and in light of how TChill has jumped onto the Wilky wagon, I think that TChill is more likely to be scum than Wilky. I brought up Bear's argument because that's been the person I've been associating with the TChill push and I wanted to see where you stand in that, since TChill is someone you consider to be scum amongst the lurkers.

Adding onto the fact that TChill's been on the Wilky wagon since Page 8 - besides that jump onto the Vent wagon yesterday - I think that that crosses off the chances that TChill voting is scum bus.

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

Notable additions: Kaede and Ouroborognynonymous have also expressed interest in a Tchill wagon, but did not vote or pseudovote.

My bad.

I'd pseudo-vote Hebi and TChill

.

Our hydra vote is probably going to end up on the Wilky wagon since I trust RC's judgement more than mine. FWIW it's probably for the best, I'm not giving this 100% of my attention as I should be doing.

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

Note: no one in this game is going to vote ramcius.
if we're doing the thing we're doing it on wilky who is scum.
I feel like this game needs more angry RC since Impossibear have taken advantage of me trying to be polite this gamestate to shit all over the game and try to lock in mislynches.

As of tomorrow I'm going to start bringing out the big guns again but I give everyone the next 12 or so hours before I make my full case explaining why Impossibear isn't just stupid as fuck town, they're scum making the game as toxic as they have to in order to try to take away my leverage over the town and secure mislynches secure that when I get nightkilled not tonight but in two nights that no one will have the balls to go against them.

The existence of the role that swaps scum roles basically guarantees the existence of a godfather setup spec wise.

[Ouroboros]

Fight me then. You've repeatedly dragged this out of the game and I've had enough with your shit and ETL's shit.

[Ouroboros]

Oh: and calling you stupid as fuck town is fully with regards to the actions you've taken in this game on an alignment indicative basis.
That's not personal, that's strictly business. What's personal is the shit you guys constantly have done this game because apparently you're not good enough to play scum any other way.

[Ouroboros]

Guys please don't do this. A huge fight between you will have no winners, it will only make the state of the game worse.

I have to have this fight because Impossibear is scum and conceding the fight means conceding the game to scum.

[Ouroboros]

Like. I lynched scum yesterday. From Impossibear's POV the worst thing that can happen is that someone who led on scum that they were hard TRing gets another scumread lynched.
They're fighting me here because they know the game is sunk if they let me keep piling on correct scum lynches.

Why not give them the chance to fulfill their quest and confirm themselves?

They asked to be copped yesterday: as I said yesterday the sole person in this game with specific godfather equity is their slot.
I would not take any cop on them as clearing and I specifically said in twilight last night that I had this view of the gamestate so it's nothing new.

I backed off of Impossibear and RMOJ situation because of RMOJ's claim but if they're going to try to hide behind this to swing the game I am going to swing back.

[Ouroboros]

Guys please don't do this. A huge fight between you will have no winners, it will only make the state of the game worse.

I have to have this fight because Impossibear is scum and conceding the fight means conceding the game to scum.

lol... nope. we're town and you're being decidedly anti town right now. knock it off. i've taken a break and i'll talk to jingle. just leave us alone. if you want to get us lynched go ahead and try but stop with the bully shit.

I am not bullying anyone.

YOU are bullying me.

You've claimed that you're going to
-Make everyone in this game lose respect for me
-Try to declare an out of game war to get me off the site?

You've repeatedly made personal attacks and done all sorts of horrible shit to try to discredit me. I'm not allowing that to win as a scum strategy, period.

[Ouroboros]

To undermine and discredit you? Absolutely, I have played my wincon and undermining and discrediting you was to my wincon because you were hard defending the fuck out of scum
I have not gone outside of the game and attacked ETL the person or Jingle the person or threatened to bully you outside of the game and ruin games for you and get you off the site

There's a line here and you crossed it a long time ago. I will do whatever I need to do to kill you guys since you guys have long since thrown any sort of professional courtesy to the wind.

[Ouroboros]

It stops when they replace out or die. I didn't pick this fight but I'm going to win it.

[Ouroboros]

You've said enough horrible shit to me that you have absolutely no right to sit there and proselytize with me about how I'm supposed to play the game.

[Ouroboros]

RC seriously, whichever reason you're concocting for ETL to be scum requires a lot of planning and predicting that goes way out of the way of what any person could, the total worst case scenario is that both RMOJ and ETL are scum together, and even then all you'd need to do is flip RMOJ first, to do that either a "real" vig or an SK would take them out, there's literally NO REASON to not let the daycop quest go through. Even if you assume that ETL's a godfather you'd have to assume that they predicted everything upon them being scanned, and even then, the vig portion would still make them dangerous to an SK if it exists, there's no way they are living to endgame regardless of whether they are scum or town, if they are really claiming BP im sure there are ways to deal with that, either for scum or town or SK or whatever exists.

You need to stop thinking that every single thing ETL does is a scum plot, town can be wrong, even super good town players can be wrong, did you forget about that game where i was scum and i used exactly the way you're behaving right now to get a win by mislynching all the towns by your own hand?

MAN. Why does a role that let you swap roles around exist if not to allow you to change who gets a godfather style role?
Switching basically any other role is completely replacable, you can give them to whoever you need. Cops can be on anyone, roleblockers can be on anyone, doesn't really matter.

But a -godfather- it matters who its on because of the form that the utility takes.

RC... you can't see we've solely been reacting to you? We were wrong about vent. That's a thing that's gonna happen on day one. You've never once stopped to consider that we might be on the same side. Both of us have reached out to you to make this a pleasant experience. Instead of giving it a go you went right back to the same aggressive, boorish, rude behavior and act surprised when we react negatively.

It's getting old. You need to grow up and learn to play nice with others. We're going to ignore you from here on because clearly reason isn't something you're familiar with. And that's fine. Some people don't know how to work with people. I get it. But stop acting like we're demons here. It's one thing to believe a player is scum. It's another to seek to ruin the game for them and others, which is something you've already achieved here.

Please. Stop.

As long as you're alive, no. You could have been a well adjusted adult but you chose not to for strategic advantage when it served your purposes.
You're worse than me at the game that you chose to drag this down to, you don't get to be an awful person and player then cry foul when I return the favour.

[Ouroboros]

I theorycrafted the existence of Godfather as of D1. I specifically said that they were the last slot that should ever be copped. RMOJ chose to cop them for some reason, apparently.
I was never going to trust a cop on that slot given their actions D1 and given the way the game has gone I am sticking with that read.

[Ouroboros]

You have a scum player who says they never bus (which precludes them being an actual good scum player by the by) super hard defending one scum slot then trying to derail my wagon on an objectively scummy player today.
It doesn't take rocket science to put two and two together and say that they're trying to keep their scumteam together.
Also if they are a fucking BULLETPROOF VIGILANTE then scum would have a strongman: yet in spite of that scum apparently failed to get their nightkill through! Why would that happen?

[Ouroboros]

If RC is so good, then since he's wrong about us that must mean he's scum right?

If ETL is the top town player in this game as she claimed, then since she was dead wrong about Ventriloquist it must mean she's scum, right?

[Ouroboros]

Second of all, for this to work, then vent would've to be said godfather, so ETL swapped with them, according to this ability description, you swap yourself with one of your faction, not swap both of them. I do have a question tho.
@Mod: Does the flipped scum role bodyswap ability get restricted by being used once a day or it can be used inifinitely per day, the description doesnt mention it but i wanted it to be known if it wasnt a mistake.

Third of all, you have to assume that the swap happened before vent got lynched.

No. I'm assuming that they just rolled the godfather role. Since no one else in this game has specific godfather equity.

[Ouroboros]

No. I'm assuming that they just rolled the godfather role. Since no one else in this game has specific godfather equity.

So basically they rolled a godfather, hard defended scum, and happened to be cop scanned by someone you also suspect of being scum.

Sure. I don't know the details, I need more flips.

[Ouroboros]

The person who claimed bulletproof vig in a game where scum apparently don't have a strongman to use since thye didn't get a nightkill through? Sure.

Actually I wanted to just lynch Wilky and ignore the bullshit from a slot that hard defended scum all yesterday, but if that is going to be contested then yes I would lynch them before I lynched Tchill and you all should too.

[Ouroboros]

As much as ETL hard defended scum, i dont see literally anything else that could point towards them being scum, if anything only RMOJ gave me that vibe, ETL just gave me the vibe of wrong town.

I do warn you, if you do decide to make this game hyper toxic just to have your way im going to lock my vote on you until you die for the rest of the game.

Do it then. I didn't start this fight. I just want to finish it.

[Ouroboros]

And frankly I won't say anything half as bad as ETL already has, I'm not that terrible. But since apparently everyone else can be horrible to me and that's fine with you Kaede, but when I retaliate in the same way that's a problem, go ahead and vote me.

[Ouroboros]

I will quickhammer ramcius if they are brought to L-1. 0 purpose doing that.

If you want this check then wagon Wilky for it.

[Ouroboros]

I'm done with you handing the game to scum.

[Ouroboros]

You've gone out of your way to ass kiss scum all game while trying to make my life shitty.

[Ouroboros]

VOTE: Ouroboros
I'm done with you being anti town.

why is this game full of people actively sabotaging an easy town-victory

I want to lynch scum. Other scum are preventing that from happening

Why are you opposed to bringing Ram to L-1? I mean aside from thinking Impossibear is a Godfather?

Because Ramcius is just going to get lynched

[Ouroboros]

Nah I want to lynch wilky

Vote me up do it.

[Ouroboros]

I'm playing terribly but I was the one who fought my ass off to get scum lynched on D1.

[Ouroboros]

bite me.

[Ouroboros]

I'm trying to lynch scum, that's helping something.

If I can't lynch scum after lynching scum yesterday then town can't win so it doesn't really matter what I do does it?

[Ouroboros]

RC you need to back off and talk through Ghost

dead serious

No, I don't.

Ghost didn't even want the Vent lynch why would she contest me here?

[Ouroboros]

Also:

VOTE: Ouroboros
I'm done with you being anti town.

why is this game full of people actively sabotaging an easy town-victory

Because you havent had to deal with them every day since the game started.....

You mean the day I had to fight and claw my way to get yall to take my ventriloquist wagon seriously when I was ready to claim a guilty, yeah.

[Ouroboros]

@Matt - Which interaction with us made Dunn look like scum? Was it mine? If so, can you explain?

I'm biased by the fact that in less than five posts I forgot who Dunn was talking about, if that's the interaction you're referring to.

Ghost

OMG Pedit~

[Ouroboros]

I haven't been paying attention to Ram or the push against him besides that one interaction earlier today - I think?

That's my fault.

Can someone sum up the case for me?

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

You can probably tell i've done almost everything to pacify this stupid fighting that's only leading to toxicity to no avail. My patience has limits too.

you picked the wrong side. they were fucking awful awful awful to me all the game and you're siding against me because I've decided that I'm not going to hand control over town to them because they're being flaming assholes to get their way. Why didn't you say anything in my defense when ETL was going off at me?

You don't give a fuck when anyone does anything horrible to me. ever. fuck if I Care about your feelings when you clearly don't care about mien.

[Ouroboros]

Yes, I am quickhammering if Ramcius wagon gets to L-1.

[Ouroboros]

fuck you.