I've seen ramcius do this before as town, I think he's just lynchbait this game.Why are we doing set up spec with no flips?
This seems weird, and its something scum try to do before town.
Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)
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Ouroboros Goon
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My ram read changed because I interpreted stuff that he had done earlier in the game differently over time. That's all I can say about it. If you have to vote me or refuse to vote with me because of it that's your prerogative.
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Ouroboros Goon
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Kaede I don't stop rereading games.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Bullshit dude you've been looking for an excuse to get off ever since you got off and those posts were clearly coached, like all of them coming at once is so fucking transparently the team coaching them in scum PT.In post 844, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:okay those reactions are all I need from Venturi.
vetoing that wagon.
BE A REAL MAN AND VOTE HERE
VOTE: wilky
Verylazy is also acceptable wagon
Are you the scum in yourself and Bear?-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Hebichan why did you unvote and why did you vote Davesaz of all people?-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Man your arrogance in thinking that you can try to strongarm a defense of your partner here is staggering.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Okay I'm pissed off at the level of disrespect here: I'll tryhard this and make a case.
We are not lynching anyone besides Ventriloquist I will completely throw this game on its head to make sure this happens. You think that I'm scum then you can help me bus because I100% promisethat if I am scum I am bussing.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Get bent my reads were bad because I had a bunch of shitheads making shit wagons on me. This isn't about my reads this is about Ventriloquist being obvious scum and you not being bad enough to be this far off course.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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I claim masons with whoever is being wagoned that isn't Ventriloquist.
Be a better scum player next timeyou’re the one whose off course here.
grow a pair and join the REAL MEN-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Actually you know what I genuinely think that making a case is -equity here and that just focusing on core points and yelling at people to vote Ventriloquist is going to have better results so-
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Ouroboros Goon
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In post 737, Ventriloquist wrote:
You're literally like a broken record - how rudimentary is this logic? Impossibear doesn't agree with you so Impossibear must be scum? In what world would a mafia aligned player defend another mafia aligned player so damn hard, knowing that they would both go down together?In post 521, Ouroboros wrote:Okay so I'm locking in here
Ventriloquist is lockscum
Impossibear is lockscum
MWNN is probably scum
VOTE: Ventriloquist
MWNN has not given substantial reasons for any of his votes, he has simply changed it several times and given some vague reasoning which never really materialises - once more he always changes his vote back to whatever Ouroboros is going with, despite voting elsewhere briefly (to create the illusion of actually having his own voice) - Given the way in which MWNN and REALMEN instantly rallied around you, it wouldn't surprise me if you're all scum together. Ouroboros 'probably' reading MWNN makes perfect sense here, making it seem like MWNN is on his radar as a bad guy (thus distancing himself) yet never putting him at the top, therefore not having to consider lynching him.
Taking the saying of the best defense is a good offense to a whole new level.In post 738, Ventriloquist wrote:You're reading me as scum but you think this whole don't lynch me because I always get lynched card isn't dubious?
In post 739, Ventriloquist wrote:
It isn't fair to say ETL showed no respect for your reads earlier - fact of the matter is they went through all the posts on page 16 and ultimately decided they didn't agree with your reads - Impossibear still took the time to hear you out at least. Meanwhile, you've ignored the vast majority of Impossibear's posts - posts which actually analyse a huge quantity of players posts. Nice try discrediting the reads since she disagreed with you though, I guess you like to manipulate facts.In post 699, Ouroboros wrote:ETL you have displayed absolutely zero respect for my reads earlier, my scumread on Ventriloquist or my own ability to look into the wagon.
If you don't understand why I am scumreading the slot then you certainly shouldn't be saying shit about me being oblivious to the development of the wagon.
I echo the same general ideas that Alchemist had about the way they talk to me being extremely scum leaning but I have very specific ideas here as opposed to Alchemist's vague idea.
Also in defense of Ventriloquist, you've cited MWNN and RMOJ as your reasons for opposing the wagon development.
This doesn't pan out well because although they are voting, neither of their votes are particularly enthusiastic in a way that signifies that they couldn't be scum bussing.
RealMenOnlyJungle has several times after he joined the wagon tried to be like HEY LETS WAGON VERYLAZY INSTEAD.
MWNN took a lot of prompting and comments about his likeliness of being aligned with Ventriloquist before he decided to vote there and hasn't specifically pushed it himself.
Your engagement with me has also been fundamentally monodirectional: rather than trying to understand why my read is what it is you've gotten mad at me for not sharing your reads and been like HEY YOU SHOULD BE READING THIS INSTEAD. I'm not going to claim to be perfect town. But when you make a list of people who can read you and then say that you're a better scum player it makes me extremely skeptical of your ability to fairly judge how good you are: there is literally no one on this site who can claim that they can read me among several people who have told me they've read every single game I've played, and I have one of the largest bodies of work of anyone on this site.
I'm not townreading lazy worth shit: it's completely null. I simply think that the wagon on them is highly liable to be a scum counterwagon.
Don't fail to make any mental effort to appreciate why I'm scumreading a slot then call me bad town for faiing to scumread it, assuming you're town.When bad town starts running the game, it becomes clear that we have already lost.
Never, ever, ever fail to lynch this slot tomorrow if (when) Ventriloquist flips scum. Don't cop them, don't investigate them, don't discuss with them, just quicklynch them.
MWNN was never being scumread by anyone else as my teammate, only you - when in actuality the close connection you've had with each other - MWNN voting in a similar way to you, and you keeping MWNN at just enough arm's distance to avoid suspicion, actually reads as you two working together from where I'm reading. MWNN did not want to vote for me but eventually came around to the idea...almost as if it was inevitable hey - and his reasoning was because 'I'm not a leader' wow, just wow.
You can already see Ouroboros rubbing their hands with this quote - 'When bad town starts running the game, it becomes clear that we have already lost'In post 740, Ventriloquist wrote:
My initial posts had some vague reads, sure (an idea about Tchill, genuinely my first week on this forum - I assumed it was credible to consider the jester role) and what I said about Wilky didn't bring anything new to the table I'll admit - but given that I hadn't said anything up to that point and the thread was already blowing up I obviously had to show my face, and in the absence of having any significant reads I just said some general observations because I thought it was more productive than, hey, I don't know, jumping onto a voting bandwagon with no reasoning. On top of that, I did vote for Ramcius and a gave strong reasoning for doing so.In post 715, davesaz wrote:In post 634, Ouroboros wrote:I backed off on Ventriloquist because I regretted actually showing that scumread because I wanted to see how he'd develop without me doing anything.
I later decided I was sure enough that he was scum and I just went for it.
Meanwhile you chose to take advantage of my lack of experience and turn it into a 'scumread' - then popped some joke, palming it off as a 'meme' when it didn't go your way. As soon as the pressure came off and I'd left the forum you got back onto my wagon, knowing I wasn't around to defend myself.In post 741, Ventriloquist wrote:
Maybe fakeclaiming is more likely, but that doesn't mean I wasn't trying to help. Either way, I acknowledged that his claim was not believable WHICH IS WHY I suggested joker in the first place, why else make yourself so lynchable? But if you were game for a Tchill lynch and the jester possibility really is so absurd, then why aren't you voting for them instead?In post 431, Wraith wrote:
Almost forgot, might as well elaborate on why I find this post very suspicious, because why notIn post 427, Wraith wrote:Yeah I could get on board with a Vent wagon too
Very suspicious postIn post 235, Ventriloquist wrote:Is it not possible Tchill has a jester role of some sort? Not suggesting an insta win but I don't see how his claim could be helpful to town otherwise.
It wouldn't surprise me if Wilky has done research and is relying on the miller claim because he realises the host has done this before, especially since he chose to highlight that it wasn't far fetched for there to be 2 millers again. As Alchemist said though, this is relying on some pretty niche assumptions so I'm not buying it just yet.
He uses some ratherabsurdleaps in logic in two separate cases to paint a narrative picture about these two players, deliberately ignoring Occam's Razor in favor of stirring up WIFOM.
What is more likely? That TChill is running a Jester gambit? Or that TChill is fakeclaiming? TChill's was by far the least believable claim so far, and the most awkward (considering Kaede is mod-confirmed). By bringing up some a longshot possiblity, Vent is indirectly mounting a soft defense of TChill.
Simultaneously, he attempts to cast suspicion on Wilky with a similarly absurd leap. What's more likely? That Wilky is claiming Miller truthfully in a game run by a mod who apparently has a habit of these kinds of setup quirks? Or that Wilky is deliberately playing off mod meta to mount a roundabout fakeclaim gambit, with a claim that is by its nature instantly considered suspect by default?
I don't like that whatsoever. And after we get the VC I might consider switching my vote right now.
I never made a strong claim against Wilky, but it was odd how he said it wouldn't be far-fetched to have another game with 2 millers when this moderator has done it before. It's like he'd done his research, found the link then knew it was credible because it isn't the first time. I wasn't saying this was the case but it wasn't inaccurate to discuss.
If this guy doesn't have an alternative PT to be posting in, why the fuck is he making several separate posts in several separate posts?In post 742, Ventriloquist wrote:
And last but not least, play nice people - we are all here to have fun, are we not?In post 533, Ouroboros wrote:so you vote town because you're not 'man' enough to cope with resistance on lynching scum?
wait didn't someone just say this is what you do as scumfuck off. jingle was clearly wrong about you. and i'm the one who said you had no skill. i see i was right. go away.
fuck off both of you. idiots.
towns these days are garbage. i don't know why i bother with discussion.
I've had my say so, up to you guys now.
Also, VOTE: MWNN - my nomination, if Ouroboros truly does think he is 'probably' scum then he can prove it.
This is an individual account, not a hydra, and given that they are new they don't have the ability to even make PTs.
Where is he making these separate posts properly forum formatted to be posted together when, if he's town, doesn't have access to any MS PTs?
Why is he taking so long and waiting to post everything together in the first place? What reasoning makes sense there besides him being scum who was holding off to let his team critique his posting?
Town has zero motivation to delay responses until later since clearly he had written these well in advance of 2:23- scum who is getting scumread because of their bad play and wanting team support does.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Treating this as a guilty on Ventriloquists scumflip. bye.In post 862, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:In post 860, Ouroboros wrote:Actually you know what I genuinely think that making a case is -equity here and that just focusing on core points and yelling at people to vote Ventriloquist is going to have better results so
disregarding a MAN veto is -equity for the entire town-
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Ouroboros Goon
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In post 864, Ouroboros wrote:In post 862, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:In post 860, Ouroboros wrote:Actually you know what I genuinely think that making a case is -equity here and that just focusing on core points and yelling at people to vote Ventriloquist is going to have better results so
disregarding a MAN veto is -equity for the entire townTreating this as a guilty on Ventriloquists scumflip. bye.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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HEBICHAN, WHY HAVE YOU TWICE TRIED TO CREATE COUNTERWAGONS TO VENTRILOQUIST NOW?-
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Ouroboros Goon
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I'm waiting for you to defend your buddy more let's hear it
I am bad in games with people who make me play bad in games: people doing shit like Kaede wants to do. I had more than enough time and space to get on track and I will carry this one.REAL MEN know that ventriloquists is flipping town
just like the rest of your UNMANLY pushes from 2018-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Also please note WRT RMOJ that he did absolutely nothing in terms of resisting this wagon when it looked like it was going through: he didn't want to be seen jumping off of the wagon while it seemed like it was going through.
As soon as it looked like things were stalling with a couple jumps off he's off looking for alternative wagons and using the exact same posts that he coached Ventriloquist as an excuse.
I mean you can keep discrediting me but I don't think it's going to do you a lot of good here. I found myself again on other mafia sites getting away from my reputation. I solved the recently finished micro D1.MAN vetos exist to prevent you from playing bad in yet another game
if you’re playing poker you would have lost your bankroll 10 times over with all those failed all-in pushes you make
good thing we don’t charge anything here!
You should have just stuck with bussing, I would probably have lynched Impossibear before you just on principle.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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In post 863, Ouroboros wrote:If this guy doesn't have an alternative PT to be posting in, why the fuck is he making several separate posts in several separate posts?
This is an individual account, not a hydra, and given that they are new they don't have the ability to even make PTs.
Where is he making these separate posts properly forum formatted to be posted together when, if he's town, doesn't have access to any MS PTs?
Why is he taking so long and waiting to post everything together in the first place? What reasoning makes sense there besides him being scum who was holding off to let his team critique his posting?
Town has zero motivation to delay responses until later since clearly he had written these well in advance of 2:23- scum who is getting scumread because of their bad play and wanting team support does.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Again in the world where you're town I can't help not caring if you get mislynched any more than I care if Impossibear gets mislynched.
There's a lot of big game talking and then backing down when results are actually being expected of you.
people here all know that you’ve lost your MANhood
nobody here’s actually going to follow you, real talk, MAN to man
I’m offering you a chance to grow your pair back-
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Ouroboros Goon
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HOLY FUCK HE DID NOT TYPE THOSE POSTS IN 16 SECONDS AND 11 SECONDS.
KEEP THIS IN MIND FOR WHAT FUTURE
KAEDE YOU'RE HARD PLAYING SCUM WINCON RIGHT NOW-
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Ouroboros Goon
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198 words in 14 seconds - aka - over 800 words per minute
is that what you think happened plausibly or do you just not want to vote with me because you think I can as scum plan for people scumclaiming all over the thread?-
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Ouroboros Goon
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thank you dear annie. sorry if I'm frustrated but RMOJ is intentionally pressing my buttons as scum.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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No one is capable of typing 800 words per minute.
Like the fastest typers in the world I guarantee you are not even close to that.
There si some level of plausibility to an argument that he made all these posts and then split them up HOWEVER if he was doing that all he needs to do is copy and paste it from the central source
15 seconds strongly suggests backing to take the quote from scum topic and back
actually i'm going to test something-
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Ouroboros Goon
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It isn't fair to say ETL showed no respect for your reads earlier - fact of the matter is they went through all the posts on page 16 and ultimately decided they didn't agree with your reads - Impossibear still took the time to hear you out at least. Meanwhile, you've ignored the vast majority of Impossibear's posts - posts which actually analyse a huge quantity of players posts. Nice try discrediting the reads since she disagreed with you though, I guess you like to manipulate facts.
MWNN was never being scumread by anyone else as my teammate, only you - when in actuality the close connection you've had with each other - MWNN voting in a similar way to you, and you keeping MWNN at just enough arm's distance to avoid suspicion, actually reads as you two working together from where I'm reading. MWNN did not want to vote for me but eventually came around to the idea...almost as if it was inevitable hey - and his reasoning was because 'I'm not a leader' wow, just wow.
You can already see Ouroboros rubbing their hands with this quote - 'When bad town starts running the game, it becomes clear that we have already lost'-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Actually I tried to copy and paste from a pt let me do that again-
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Ouroboros Goon
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elcome to your Neighborhood PT!
Members:
Kokichi Oma
Thor665 Joey_
Brassherald
{{Game Thread}}
- Members of the Neighbourhood can use this topic to talk only during the nightphase.
- If you have not already done so, please read up on the game rules. All rules for the game apply here as well.
If you have any questions or concerns whatsoever, do not hesitate to ask me!
Good luck, and have fun!-
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Ouroboros Goon
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I don't want to change my thing to seconds Kaede, can you give me time stamps on these last 5 posts-
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Ouroboros Goon
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14 SECONDS
17 SECONDS
TO GO TAKE A POST FROM A PT.
LETS TRY SOMETHING NEW-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Again in the world where you're town I can't help not caring if you get mislynched any more than I care if Impossibear gets mislynched.
There's a lot of big game talking and then backing down when results are actually being expected of you.
people here all know that you’ve lost your MANhood
nobody here’s actually going to follow you, real talk, MAN to man
I’m offering you a chance to grow your pair back-
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Ouroboros Goon
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cAN i GET A TIMER ON THOSE LAST 2-
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Ouroboros Goon
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9 seconds is copy and pasting it from another tab INCLUDING THE TIME TO QUOTE AND CUT OUT THE QUOTE TABS.
Notepad would be shorter than that imo-
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Ouroboros Goon
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ONE MORE TEST
I don't see any likely alternatives and I don't think this is even close to the main reason to scumread themTbh while i think this timing theory is kind of ridiculous, it may actually be what happened. Hence i want more ppl to give their opinion on it too.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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POSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOSTPOST-
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Ouroboros Goon
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^^ copy and pasting from notepad-
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Ouroboros Goon
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And btw even if their excuse is that they copied from notepad or whatever, they did it in format, they're somewhat slower than me (which is believable)
why is town taking the time to do all this instead of posting stuff as they go? feels like it's coming from someone who has excessive interest in curating what they put out
btw notice RMOJ just disappeared: he went to scum topic to start figuring out what the excuse that Ventriloquist is going to use will be.-
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Like I want to go into a ton of nitty gritty about scum indicative phrasings that they've used but it's all moonspeak to y'all. There's so much I see from them that's just knee jerk scum but I can't say it in a way you'll all understand-
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Ouroboros Goon
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I'M HERE TO SMITE SCUMFIDELS AND POWER DAYVIG TITUS AND I'M ALL OUT OF DAYVIGS
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Vent is currently at L-2.In post 907, wilky wrote:Yeah that's convinced me on vent what's the current vote count?
Ventriloquist (8):Ouroboros, ManWithNoName, MariaR, Wraith, Alchemist21, Kaede Akamatsu, davesaz, Tchill13
Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-20 12:33:41)
Ghost-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Pls just give me my Vent lynch. if you all want to pretend the game is solved when I'm gone then just sheep me on {RMOJ, MWNN, BEAR} containing at least one scum but most likely exactly 2.-
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If you write your posts in notepad, why do you designate them as separate posts and why does he have all the proper MS formatting and stuffIn post 934, MariaR wrote:tldr I got from this
Vent had posts saved in notepad or some shit
and they have to be scum because of it orrrr
but like that's the weakest in my long list of reasons to think that the venquilotristmeister is the scums.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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yeah but you have a level of experience with MS functionality that I'm not expecting to see from him and also have like w/e omg can we just kill the scums-
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why don't you just vote so we can get this over with then lol
I've seen too many games where scum was caught and town got disinterested and decided to go do something else for no reason-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Is that necessarily a scum response tho-
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ETL has asked for invests several times and could be godfather, don't waste an invest unles sits a role cop-
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I'm sorry if you feel that way and are town: but the message was made clear to me by basically everyone after team mafia that I made the wrong move sacrificing my win equity for a healthy gamestate. I'm not doing that anymore.-
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I do recognize that I could be wrong I just don't think I can do anything more to help town win than what I've done so far.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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I can't care until I know your alignment.-
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Nothing to say preflip.-
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Locktown
We're still town
Kaede town
Alchemist town: meta
Ankamius town: that's almost never a scum response here imo
Manwithnoname goes up to town: their play doesn't make sense if they're not specifically SvS with ventriloquist
davesaz town- no longer negotiable
I am almost certain that there is 0 scum in this list
Wilky town: felt like a town reaction in the long run
Tchill feel like scum wouldn't have claimed there but again negotiable
Dunn: trusting my initial good gut feelings
Impossibear / Jungle: Feel like there's a scum in the pair but I can't be sure.
Hebichan: Still meh + jumped off of a town flip.
Nero cain: was townreading based on stuff that doesn't point to town in the same way if Nero and Maria are both scum. In fact I am tempted to put this lower but I don't want to actually review and see how I feel
Generally bad
verylazy: no reason to townread, generally bad ISO.
Scum:
MariaR: explicitly scumreading, have seen a tell that heavily leans scum, if I die I can't give it 100% but this has very good scum equity and is likely to be endgame scum if we do end up dead tonight
Wraith: The post that they made about not making preflip associatives is almost certainly a scumclaim in a Ventrilo!town universe-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Ramcius should be in lower town somewhere btw-
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yeah i reviewed NC is only towny with a presumption of Maria town that I'm not willing to presume right now-
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Assuming this is a townflip and I dropped the ball: that's what their twilight reaction points to at any rate.-
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OBviously if it flips scum go off the original list.-
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Other specific interactions that I want to call out:
Maria and Nero both gain a fuckton of scum equity if the other of the pair flips scum.
Nero scum almost always means Dunn town-
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Anony will control the vote and lead this hydra if we're alive tomorrow (I still expect to not be) glgl-
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Stand by saying not to investigate Bear, even if that means just presuming them as town by default: they're the single slot that has any specific godfather equity in this game.-
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@Bear if we're both still alive I'll try my best to work with y'all tomorrow.
Believe me I was a lot less certain of this flip than I outwardly stated but I felt this flip was so, so important for me in terms of dividing which universe it was
I think that this being a townflip gives you at the very least some town equity, it locktowns MWNN and Davesaz fmpov, and it tells me a lot about Maria's interactions-
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Ouroboros Goon
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Anyway I strongly advise powerlynching Wraith, I should have considered it today, if I had done a better job being right on my tertiary reads and their interactions
like I knew scum RMOJ would never try to fight me and I still went off a line of reasoning involving them being scum defending which was really bad.
Anyway glgl my townreads are better than my scumreads etc etc-
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Ouroboros Goon
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I htink maria is in wrong category ftr
like
I want to put her in normal scum but she's slightly below that
I'm gonna reshape my readslist-
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Ouroboros Goon
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{RC, Kaede}
{Alchemist, Ankamius, MWNN, Davesaz}
{Wilky, NC (mariatown)}
{Ramcius}
{Tchill, Dunnstral}
-null line- Impossibear/jungle outside of typical reads
{Verylazy, NC (mariascum)}
{MariaR, Hebichan}
{}
{Wraith}-
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Ouroboros Goon
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tbh I wanted to just declare you lockscum and then read you based off of whether I got killed or notIn post 991, MariaR wrote:this page really really is making me perk my brow-
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Ouroboros Goon
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yes I absolutely mind I have a hydra partner to make me a free read and scum still have so much reason to want to kill meHrm.
You mind getting copped RC?
Pedit: I don't think you'd sr me here unless you were scum atm but we'll see
burning investigations on me in an overlapping nightkill is a massive hit to town's win equity.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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I mean I could just be knee jerk reacting
I never called you lockscum, I don't have a clear read on you.
But what I do have says >rand scum.
I would prefer to not say anything about you because I prefer to hold off on reads that I can have 100% until I have them 100% but we're still the nightkill that makes the most sense and I can't leave that unsaid.-
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Ouroboros Goon
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